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Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.19 17:04:00 - [961] Originally by: Admiral Pieg Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Originally by: Wolfgang Jager There is not a single other ship class, for any race, which has its bonuses limited by ammo type. you may want to do some more research into non-caldari ships before you go and claim something like that. prolly meant damage type would still be wrong then.
Kaden Seer Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:20:00 - [962] Why are you comparing EVE to what the British and Germans had way back then? There are no similarities, come on. Anyway, more drone bay for Myrmee and unnerf the hurricane! <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>> More drone bay for Myrmidon!!!
Kagura Nikon	Posted - 2006.11.20 09:43:00 - [963] HUrricane is still a good ship, not THE GOOD SHIP, but good. Most minmatar pilots already have SP on both missiles and guns so tehy wont be affected.. this wil just prevent a mass of players cross training just to fly it. And will diminish thedemand on hurricanes and keep prices reasonable. The problem on changing plates is the efcet on too many ships. If plates are to be touched i would increase the weight added. Anyway its not like putiing a 1600mm plate will not hamper a good amount of the PG and reduce weapons possibilities. There isa reason AC have such low pog .. its to be able to fit a good tank that is needed when using them.
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.11.20 11:59:00 - [964] Any word on an increase of the drone bay for the Myrmidon? I think the opinion on the forums is practically unanimous on this, considering that: Increasing the drone bonus will overpower the medium drones; Increasing the drone bay but applying the bonus only to medium and light drones is actually a nerf (can't stress this enough); The DPS increase for using 5 heavies instead of 4 is minimal (around 50 for average resist); and Without an increase in drone bay the Myrmidon will not have the staying power to be useful in PvP. A drone boat where the majority of the DPS has to come from 6 blaster turrets at breathtakingly short range is not a drone boat, it is a blaster boat. We already have a BC that can do that in the Brutix (not to mention two BS soon as well). Tux, please give the Gallente some diversity. Turn the Myrmidon into a true drone boat and fix the drone issues (as in the drone whinage thread). I would like a Damperion for the Hyperion as well, but as a drone user my focus is on the Myrmidon. As it is now, the Myrmidon will not be used. Which is a shame, because it really looks good. -- Drone users unite! Support drone whinage
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2006.11.20 12:14:00 - [965] Quote: The Hurricane already has a crap tank and only 4 mids. 4 Mids is crap. You can't PVP with 4 mids. This voids every PvP related post you have ever made until now. So what you're basically saying is that only Caldari and a select few Minmatar and Gallente ships can PvP. You're ace. Really. This should go in my sig... Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
KorAnu	Posted - 2006.11.20 12:42:00 - [966] Please give the Myrmidon a similar drone bonus to the Moros restricted to light and medium drones Thanx
TalanR Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.20 13:43:00 - [967] Originally by: Berrik Radhok You guys can thank Selene for the Drake nerf as he whined to a dev about it at fanfest. Fun fact: Selene also owns a Cereberus BPO thx, now i will have to stick to my caracal. Seriously the DPS of the Drake with jav HAMS was to much but fix the T2 HAMS and remove the tanking ability of the ship but don't take away the DPS. True, it's better than a ferox but 95% of the ship in game are better than a ferox. Just make it a BIG caracal! another patch and another calari nerf. when all of kali is released the best PvP ship we have will be the Ibis
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.20 16:00:00 - [968] Actually, in general, they need to boost battlecruisers (strictly T1 battlecruisers, not T2). Either they need to approach battleship power a bit more (kind of how the Hurricane was prior to the... fix) or they need to approach cruiser longevity a bit more (signature radius is currently 3/4 of battleship, could be 1/2). In other words, either they need to take some more of the benefits of battleships or some of the benefit of cruisers. Right now the T1 (both tiers) are squat in the middle. Myself, I'd prefere bumping their fire power up a bit. Which would mean: * undo Hurricane... fix * give back a Drake hardpoint and fix the tank+gank problem instead (remove the tank bonus) * boost Myrmidon drone bay * add a couple of Ferox turrets * and so on. - EVE is sick.
Kaden Seer Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.20 17:40:00 - [969] Ja, what he said ^ <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>> More drone bay for Myrmidon!!!
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.20 18:27:00 - [970] I have a slightly off topic, yet on topic question here: As I haven't been flying minmatar for very long now, I just realized something and was wondering-- what is the reason for the large discrepencies between powergrid usage of autocannons and artillery? It seems that the huge difference makes fitting full racks of artillery nearly impossible, yet when fitting ac's leaves huge amounts of grid open for other options. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes

Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.20 18:55:00 - [971] Imode, I don't think anyone really know. According to devs it is the ACs that are low on fitting, not the other way around. Then you can argue that certain ships Minmatar ships possibly have a wee bit too low powergrid. On the other hand, it does give the devs a good tool to enforce AC usage on ships, although a similar option for artillery doesn't exist. It is sort of how blasters and rails should relate, though; blasters high on PG, rails high on CPU. That way you could make Gallente ships more CC and Caldari turret ships more snipe - but honestly this need doesn't exist with projectiles. - EVE is sick.
Kirov VIII	Posted - 2006.11.20 21:25:00 - [972] What are the best tier 2 bc actually (with last modification) ?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.20 22:55:00 - [973] Originally by: Kirov VIII What are the best tier 2 bc actually (with last modification) ? /me scratches head. Can't be Harbringer, can it? No wai! It's Amarr. - EVE is sick.
Coryn Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.20 23:40:00 - [974] Edited by: Coryn on 20/11/2006 23:40:43 Originally by: Kirov VIII What are the best tier 2 bc actually (with last modification) ? Myrmidon and Harbinger i think, i like both Myrmidon overhaul is now: 6-5-6, with 6 Turret Hardpoints and 1175pwg This leads to very nice pve fittings, cause you can fit a full armor tank now and obviously a magstab with 200m guns would add some damage now. I hope the Harbinger will stay as it is atm with the damage bonus. but i fear they cut one turret hardpoint too.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.21 00:06:00 - [975] Originally by: Coryn Edited by: Coryn on 20/11/2006 23:40:43 Originally by: Kirov VIII What are the best tier 2 bc actually (with last modification) ? Myrmidon and Harbinger i think, i like both Myrmidon overhaul is now: 6-5-6, with 6 Turret Hardpoints and 1175pwg This leads to very nice pve fittings, cause you can fit a full armor tank now and obviously a magstab with 200m guns would add some damage now. I hope the Harbinger will stay as it is atm with the damage bonus. but i fear they cut one turret hardpoint too. They wont cut a turret hardpoint. Then it would have the same problems as it had with the previous Hurricane[and still have really, since with high skills the missile hardpoints allow the Hurricane to do neary as much damage as it did while still retaining the massive tank that it had before] which they were supposed to fix by boosting the Harbinger[say, to 8 turrets and get rid of that lopsided abomination], but didnt for reasons that no one really knows.
Lisian Tonoko	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:13:00 - [976] Would be nice to see the return of the 'guardian vexor' in the form of Myrmidon. Instead of making it the same in setup like the Ishkur, Ishtar, Vexor and Dominix with small waves of tough drones, going the mini carrier road and swarms of medium drones with maybe a few heavy amidst. Total of 10 or more drones in simultanious flight? This would be nice as it could provide coverage against multiple ships in small scale engagements. Concentrated on fellow BC, spread out when facing small ships. A bit like how the gallente Dreadnaught differs from its fellow shiplings^^. If the popular consencus is not giving it 5 heavies (by increasing dronebay to allow the numbers), then I dont see any other way for it to remain a 'Droneship' and be worse off then the others in its field, except with increase of numbers. The 'TIE Fighter' approach. Swarm with susperior engines and targetting systems and numbers, sacrificing durability and overal power. This seems to have been suggested before.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.11.21 15:41:00 - [977] Myrmidon has 125m3 drone bay now, too bad the model is now incredibly broken so it cant be tested. ---------------- Kali ships worth flying left: Harbinger, Rokh. Only 2 left tux, you can make it!
Jaedar Metron Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 15:53:00 - [978] Well this was disappointing... Here I take a break form Eve to wait for Kali, and when I come back for a little intel I see the Drake's gotten nerfed. Yes, I knew it would happen. The Drake looked like an Iwin button with its bonuses. "Nerf! Nuuurf!!!" I hear as soon as I check the forums. "Ok. Was gonna happen, but its still gonna be my first Caldari ship that can hold its own against equal Pvp'ers!" :) Thats what I thought. But then I saw what the nerf did. (Could anyone tell me exactly what got nerfed btw?) Tux removed a launcher and replaced the rof bonus with kinetic damage. I also hear rumblings about lower grid. Wow. Tux managed to make the only Caldari ship that could actually solo pvp, into a pve ship. I cant help feeling ******... Many pages ago I wrote a couple of posts about the Drake prolly being overpowered, and suggested what could be nerfed. The resistbonus. Why give the resistbonus every other Caldari RAIL ship use?! No single missile ship in the Caldari fleet has this bonus, but every other rail ship does. I admit that the kinetic dmg bonus is used on the other missile ships, excluding Raven. But let's face it. NO ONE wants that kinetic damage bonus, except people running Gurista and Serpentis missions. The Kinetic damage bonus makes the Drake useless in pvp. Everyone and their mother tanks kinetic. Thanks alot Tux, you gave us another PvE ship. A ship that lack the fitting to actually do better than the missilerox in missions. A ship that has no use in PvP against evenly matched opponents. Please Tuxford. Give the Drake back the launcher and RoF bonus, and get rid of the resist bonus. The resist bonus has nothing to do on a missile ship. And is probably what made the Drake overpowered in the first place. Actually, if you still think its overpowered, remove the 7th launcher as well, just make it into the pvp gank ship it was supposed to be! Thanks for reading my post (if you do) and I hope you take my thoughts into consideration -JM -JM
cy4n1d3	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:07:00 - [979] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Quote: The Hurricane already has a crap tank and only 4 mids. 4 Mids is crap. You can't PVP with 4 mids. This voids every PvP related post you have ever made until now. So what you're basically saying is that only Caldari and a select few Minmatar and Gallente ships can PvP. You're ace. Really. This should go in my sig... Obviously I wasn't being literal. You can still pvp with 4 mids, but on a solo pvp AC or Blaster setup you're going to kind of suck with 4 mids. You always need a mwd/web/scram to get close to your target and hold it there, and probably an injector, and that takes up 3-4, leaving little room for any kind of shield tank/ecm/etc. Caldari are the best solo PVP ships because of this. I soloed a Vaga in a t1 Ferox once. Ships with 3 mids like the majority of Amarr ships I rarely see fighting in solo pvp. I don't blame them, I can fly most Amarr ships but never do. They have a few really good ones though, like their command ship and hacs and of course the Geddon at long range, but most Amarr ships are good for fleet pvp because they are low on mids. I always solo, so I don't use them. It's also why I don't use the Phoon or Muninn in solo PVP anymore. I'd probably die to a Ferox or something. After this patch the Vaga will probably suck ass too. It only has 4 mids and Barrage is getting a tracking penalty. Would be nice to be able to fit a track comp 2 on it to compensate, with a shield tank or ECM, but it's only got 4 mids. 3 of those = MWD/web/disruptor. You know the main reason why it costs 300mil instead of 100 like the Muninn? 4 midslots instead of 3.
Jaxtet Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:20:00 - [980] Originally by: keepiru Myrmidon has 125m3 drone bay now, too bad the model is now incredibly broken so it cant be tested. Well, its an improvement :) 5 heavies, no spares 2 waves of mediums + a couple of spare mediums or lights 4 heavies, 2 mediums, 1 light - It's great to have a life outside of a video game, ain't it?«

Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.21 18:18:00 - [981] Originally by: cy4n1d3 Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Quote: The Hurricane already has a crap tank and only 4 mids. 4 Mids is crap. You can't PVP with 4 mids. This voids every PvP related post you have ever made until now. So what you're basically saying is that only Caldari and a select few Minmatar and Gallente ships can PvP. You're ace. Really. This should go in my sig... Obviously I wasn't being literal. You can still pvp with 4 mids, but on a solo pvp AC or Blaster setup you're going to kind of suck with 4 mids. You always need a mwd/web/scram to get close to your target and hold it there, and probably an injector, and that takes up 3-4, leaving little room for any kind of shield tank/ecm/etc. Caldari are the best solo PVP ships because of this. I soloed a Vaga in a t1 Ferox once. Ships with 3 mids like the majority of Amarr ships I rarely see fighting in solo pvp. I don't blame them, I can fly most Amarr ships but never do. They have a few really good ones though, like their command ship and hacs and of course the Geddon at long range, but most Amarr ships are good for fleet pvp because they are low on mids. I always solo, so I don't use them. It's also why I don't use the Phoon or Muninn in solo PVP anymore. I'd probably die to a Ferox or something. After this patch the Vaga will probably suck ass too. It only has 4 mids and Barrage is getting a tracking penalty. Would be nice to be able to fit a track comp 2 on it to compensate, with a shield tank or ECM, but it's only got 4 mids. 3 of those = MWD/web/disruptor. You know the main reason why it costs 300mil instead of 100 like the Muninn? 4 midslots instead of 3. I hope they nerf ewar into oblivion for winners like you. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Mordrake MetaForge	Posted - 2006.11.21 18:31:00 - [982] Well I can't freakin Believe it... the Drake is now NERFED!! Big Time... and here I was all exited to actually have a half decent Caldari Missile boat to fly.... Congradulations all you peeps who *****ed and moaned about it!! GOOD JOB! And congrats CCP for screwing over the Caldari yet again. "Arte et Marte"
Mysterlee Gallente 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.21 19:24:00 - [983] Now that we've finally been given the ability to field 5 heavy drones on the myrmidon, how about another 25m3 to make it up to 150m3? This will allow it to carry 5 heavy drones and 5 light drones which is something that is pretty much required in pvp to cover all bases. As it is now it would have to carry 4 heavy drones and 5 light drones and since its a drone ship this doesnt seem right. The vexor has a 75m3 drone bay so it can carry 5 medium drones and 5 light drones, can we please have the same ability with the myrmidon but with 5 heavy drones and 5 light drones?
Kaden Seer Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:08:00 - [984] Originally by: Jaedar Metron I cant help feeling ******... Many pages ago I wrote a couple of posts about the Drake prolly being overpowered, and suggested what could be nerfed. The resistbonus. Why give the resistbonus every other Caldari RAIL ship uses?! No single missile ship in the Caldari fleet has this bonus, but every other rail ship does. I admit that the kinetic dmg bonus is used on the other missile ships, excluding Raven. But let's face it. NO ONE wants that kinetic damage bonus, except people running Gurista and Serpentis missions. The Kinetic damage bonus makes the Drake useless in pvp. Everyone and their mother tanks kinetic. Thanks alot Tux, you gave us another PvE ship. A ship that lack the fitting to actually do better than the missilerox in missions. A ship that has no use in PvP against evenly matched opponents. Please Tuxford. Give the Drake back the launcher and RoF bonus, and get rid of the resist bonus. The resist bonus has nothing to do on a missile ship. And is probably what made the Drake overpowered in the first place. Actually, if you still think its overpowered, remove the 7th launcher as well, just make it into the pvp gank ship it was supposed to be! Thanks for reading my post (if you do) and I hope you take my thoughts into consideration I agree with him ^, thanks for the drone space on the myrmie, though, could use more, but I'm happy
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:17:00 - [985] Originally by: keepiru Myrmidon has 125m3 drone bay now, too bad the model is now incredibly broken so it cant be tested. I know this sounds ungrateful, but the point people've been trying to make about the Myrmidon is that it lack replacements. All they've done now is add a bit of DPS to the ship - DPS it needed, but the MAIN problem remains. And you know what? It's not going to be tweaked after this. It'll just present Myrmidons a logistic nightmare forever, because the difference between one flight of drones with replacements and one flight of drones without doesn't show up on paper (everyone just assumes that a drone ship magically reloads drones just like turrets or missiles reload ammo from cargo) The Myrmidon STILL needs larger drone bay. Oh, and does it still have 6 turrets? It doesn't need that many turrets. In fact, sacrifice one or a couple for (at least) a doubled drone bay is a needed sacrifice. - EVE is sick.
Kalhystia Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:09:00 - [986] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: keepiru Myrmidon has 125m3 drone bay now, too bad the model is now incredibly broken so it cant be tested. I know this sounds ungrateful, but the point people've been trying to make about the Myrmidon is that it lack replacements. All they've done now is add a bit of DPS to the ship - DPS it needed, but the MAIN problem remains. And you know what? It's not going to be tweaked after this. It'll just present Myrmidons a logistic nightmare forever, because the difference between one flight of drones with replacements and one flight of drones without doesn't show up on paper (everyone just assumes that a drone ship magically reloads drones just like turrets or missiles reload ammo from cargo) The Myrmidon STILL needs larger drone bay. Oh, and does it still have 6 turrets? It doesn't need that many turrets. In fact, sacrifice one or a couple for (at least) a doubled drone bay is a needed sacrifice. I think that Myrmidon is perfectly fine as it is. Sure, it is not the best droneboat, but is has great versatility. Want to turn it into a dampener/gang boat? No problem. Want to turn it into a weird mix or blaster/droneboat? No problem, fit blasters and be happy. Want to turn into a NOS droneboay? Sure, go for it, medium drones II are far enough if you want replacements. If you want to use heavies with replacement waves, go for Dominix, not Myrmidon. That is the tradeoff for using heavy drones in a BC IMO. Without to say you can use gang module on that baby. I like the 6 turrets on it and not only for graphic issue. I like being able to fit weird but effective setups with plates and 6 light blasters. So no, no need to remove turrets, the ship is freaking useful and versatile as it is now.
James Draekn X.E.N.O. Breidablik	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:05:00 - [987] I can't remember how many pages the "Fix BC Agility & Sig radius" was. But if they introduce the tier 2 BC and not fix the broke tier 1 BC in Kali; without LISTENING to the player base I'm sure they are going to get another 30-40 page post full of signatures. Considering this thread has more posts to it then the Battleship thread, I figure that these ships need to be introduced UNNERFED. Otherwise I'm sure the the forum warriors are going to go to work. some of the ideas so far: OLD Hurricane minus a bit of grid to decrease tank OLD Drake minus the resist bonus (some other bonus, NO KINETIC DAMAGE bonus) and T2 Jav HAMs need balancing Harbringer needs a additional turret more grid to fit it and alot better capacitor (and lasers need to be fixed) Myrmidion 250m3 drone bay, (NOTHING LESS THEN THIS) more would be better. Ferox minus 2 missile slot and add 2 turret slots and give the grid nessasary to fit 250mm's
Amy Wang	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:07:00 - [988] Give the Myrmidon a 150 or 175 bay and 4 turret slots as tradeoff, six turrets is too much especially with the recent nerfs to other bcs. Speaking of recent nerf, while I dont like the turret reduction on the hurricane I can somehow understand the reasoning behind it looking at the sleipnir doing less damage without maxed skills then a hurri with 7 turrets. However the grid reduction is too much on top of that especially looking at the gallente and amarr tier 2 bc being still/now really good. If your goal was to give minmatar a crappy BS AND a crappy BC with revelations, then keep the ships as they are by all means....
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:18:00 - [989] Originally by: Ithildin The Myrmidon STILL needs larger drone bay. Agreed. Originally by: Ithildin Oh, and does it still have 6 turrets? It doesn't need that many turrets. In fact, sacrifice one or a couple for (at least) a doubled drone bay is a needed sacrifice. Nope, still 6. Totally nonsensical, just like the Drake and Hurricane changes. ---------------- Kali ships worth flying left: Harbinger, Rokh. Only 2 left tux, you can make it!
Kalhystia Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:44:00 - [990] Originally by: keepiru Originally by: Ithildin The Myrmidon STILL needs larger drone bay. Agreed. Originally by: Ithildin Oh, and does it still have 6 turrets? It doesn't need that many turrets. In fact, sacrifice one or a couple for (at least) a doubled drone bay is a needed sacrifice. Nope, still 6. Totally nonsensical, just like the Drake and Hurricane changes. I perfectly agree, don¦t touch Myrmidon turrets. It is like saying that Dominix is overpowered because of its 6 turrets slots. It is its capability to fit ECM+NOS which turns it into a freak, not its 6 turrets slots it can¦t even fit properly with its low powergrid.



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