You can but at too high a cost. You won't cover your cost unless you really get lucky but there is nothing preventing you from parking tornadoes on the gate to a TCRC and just shooting whoever is the first poor chap to land after completing the previous site.

you don't fix game imbalances by telling other players to just gank others.

It is actually quite amusing to see the heat that this topic is creating.

Unfortunately it appears that neither side will budge & this topic will devolve into an endless rant of arguments & counter-arguments which actually solves zip.

Time for me to do something productive.

Well, forums were never a place for real debate. I mean, once people realize they can't convince you of their point of view they start to throw insults around and claiming their point of view as the absolute truth and anyone who disagrees is either stupid or lying

It's so disgusting I retired the grand majority of my interest in this thread. The forums make me want to quit the game, so I take a break when I feel it's time.

Disagree. What is missing is the ability to say
"I stand corrected"
or
"Hey I learned something, thanks".

Stalemate is
"we agree to disagree"

A forum is not always a competition, unless you make it one. And even then you "gf" when you lose a fight

btw, insulting or attacking your opponent directly is a "loss" in any proper debate. Always attack the argument ftw.
I can agree with a sound argument regardless of who is posting it.

end incursions?

dont be stoopid, asking mummy and daddy to step in because you think its risk free isk does not make it true, its a sand box not a theme park. you dont like something do as we do. Fix it yourself.

i was born from the desire to stop arseholes killing the mom too early, our fleet of pilots never show up on killmails, we fly in and jam the logi pilots and let the sansha do the killing,

ending incursions would end the point of my existence and all the other pilots in band of blackbirds.

you think its risk free isk, i am here to tell you i know its not risk free.

The payments of isk and lp are not too large if anything i would say buff the payments. your going to need the isk.

end incursions?

dont be stoopid, asking mummy and daddy to step in because you think its risk free isk does not make it true, its a sand box not a theme park. you dont like something do as we do. Fix it yourself.

i was born from the desire to stop arseholes killing the mom too early, our fleet of pilots never show up on killmails, we fly in and jam the logi pilots and let the sansha do the killing,

ending incursions would end the point of my existence and all the other pilots in band of blackbirds.

you think its risk free isk, i am here to tell you i know its not risk free.

The payments of isk and lp are not too large if anything i would say buff the payments. your going to need the isk.

I would love to see some evidence of your endeavours, jamming logi is still aggression so where are your kill/death mails please

I would love to see some evidence of your endeavours, jamming logi is still aggression so where are your kill/death mails please

i was born from the desire to stop arseholes killing the mom too early, our fleet of pilots never show up on killmails, we fly in and jam the logi pilots and let the sansha do the killing,

HAHAHA. Excellent.

I would love to see some evidence of your endeavours, jamming logi is still aggression so where are your kill/death mails please

Incursion income with a top notch blinged up fleet is like 150m/hr. That's assuming you get a nice rate on your LP as well. The only concern I have with it, isn't the income, it's the safety and ease. Incursions are run while you watch TV or do something else. The income vs effort / risk ratio is a little off.

Same type of junk call outs got Level 5 missions moved to Low Sec, which effectively just removed them from the game.

There is NOTHING you will be able to change in this game PERIOD that will get non-PVP players to PVP

I am surprised CCP hasn't learned by now that nerfing High Sec only means less things to do in game and less income for CCP.

Here's a thought.... Why not make more interesting things to do in game that costs a metric ton of ISK to do it - tihngs that don't involved nerfing someones play style, and add value to the game.

This thread should go to the Game Ideas Wasteland.

Note: Same type of junk call outs got Level 5 missions moved to Low Sec, which effectively just removed them from the game. Why not just pull any and all income activity from HS and let the game die a horrible death since you don't get your play style of PVP satisfied.

There is NOTHING you will be able to change in this game PERIOD that will get non-PVP players to PVP, it's just not going to happen in any meaningful numbers to be worth the change. They are completely different game styles.

I am surprised CCP hasn't learned by now that nerfing High Sec only means less things to do in game and less income for CCP.

Here's a thought.... Why not make more interesting things to do in game that costs a metric ton of ISK to do it - tihngs that don't involved nerfing someones play style, and add value to the game.

We don't want to, what we want is a reason for the people who do pvp to make their isk in null.

Incursion income with a top notch blinged up fleet is like 150m/hr. That's assuming you get a nice rate on your LP as well. The only concern I have with it, isn't the income, it's the safety and ease. Incursions are run while you watch TV or do something else. The income vs effort / risk ratio is a little off.

It's kind of sad how people are so obsessive over someone possibly making as much or more isk per hour with less effort or risk. Just enjoy the game you play and stop being so zealous over what someone may or may not be making.

It's not about raw isk per hour or per effort. There's always going to be someone who knows how to game things better and achieve better numbers than the rest of us, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. What's wrong about the situation is that the average pilot is better off in Hi Sec than they would be in null. Wouldn't it be cool if null sec actually supported it's population?

It's not about raw isk per hour or per effort. There's always going to be someone who knows how to game things better and achieve better numbers than the rest of us, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. What's wrong about the situation is that the average pilot is better off in Hi Sec than they would be in null. Wouldn't it be cool if null sec actually supported it's population?

Yes CCP haven't extended that past Vanguards for the additional pilots, but probably they should. Even if the sites take 50% longer (despite the extra pilots which should easily balance out T2 fits vs Deadspace fits) Null still earns more isk per site.
As for 'Incursions get ended fast in Null'. Don't complain about your own choices. Now Caps can take gates you can move Caps around even with a cyno jammer effect in place.

The few fleets I was in where I made more then +110m an hour I had to wait for. Hell I had to wait for the 100m an hour fleets. Of course the fellow quoting 150m an hour doesn't include the hour or two spent on the waitlist earning nothing. God help you if you decide to make a little isk on the side while waiting thus being out of system when your name is called.

Comparing null income while part of a large alliance to that of a single player in an incursion fleet is apples to oranges. The incursion pilot might make a bit more isk per hour on paper (excluding wait times) but they have NOTHING resembling the benefits that the null pilot has (fleet and solo SRP, paid for activities like finding WHs, more opportunities for gameplay experience etc).

In non a blinged out fleet I made a little less to far more per hour in WHs AND null with little risk. Although I guess I had to click dscan occasionally in the WH so you could call that extra effort.

It's amazing how much isk you can make in null as an individual when your alliance isn't renting out most of the good space.


:others:

It's kind of sad how people are so obsessive over someone possibly making as much or more isk per hour with less effort or risk. Just enjoy the game you play and stop being so zealous over what someone may or may not be making.

If your obsession is too strong to ignore you can always take it on yourself to HTFU and make it harder for those that are the target of your jealously. Nah that would require effort in a sandbox game. I guess you can just continue whining on the forums in the hopes that you don't have to do anything in game.

If only that was true. Looking at your post history it's clear you haven't met a highsec nerf you didn't like.

People can clearly make good isk in null and only propagandists or clueless/fail players claim otherwise. Your own alliance has corps that have created recruitment pictures galore bragging about the good isk you can make in their space (null).

Regardless lets do a little theory crafting here and assume for a moment that your version of null actually exists. A null that pvp players can't make good isk and that the only place to make good isk is in highsec.

Your solution to this problem is to... *drumroll*.....nerf highsec. So how does decreasing income in only highsec increase the ticks in null when ratting or running sites?

Are you hoping that all the isk made in FW/low and WH somehow vanishes too?

Or are those your next line of targets?

Only at that point (after you've nerfed highsec low and WHs into the ground) would you see a relative increase in purchasing power from null PVE.

CCP has already shown that their data shows nullsec making a LOT of isk (hence the nerfs). So I doubt CCP would buff null income after having just tried to get the isk fountains out there somewhat under control.

CCPs data shows more liqid isk is made in null due to the fact that all the reward for anoms come from bounties. That does not mean null has the best income, said anoms are on par with level 3 income in highsec. That propaganda about how great our great ratting income is in renter space is just that, propaganda. Shock horror, goons are scamming people into paying taxes for useless space. Do you honestly think we would not be using that space ourselves if it was any good?

What I want is a total revamp of income from PVE in all areas of space in the same way that mining, industry, exploration and PI now operate.

Remember how CCP swore that titans cost so much that only the biggest alliances would be able to field a few?