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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:03:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon
Yeah TomB... thanks for the quick response.
Naming each squad (Blue, Red, Green, etc...) might help when issuing orders on a larger scale operation.
We demand a Pink Squad!
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:06:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Mr Ninjaface
hardly worried about lock time but for example.
you ask for cap your gang mate locks you and starts cap transfers while fighting some other guy.
FC calls a new target say a BC. The guy locks it and activates his guns (f1-7 (8 is cap transfer)) But then before he gets his guns off guy in squad 2 in his maelstrom gets a wreaking hit from 3 of his guns and the BC insta pops. Your guns then cycle to the guy your cap transfering because suddenly as you activated your weapons your target was gone.
Ah, yeah. I've done the friendly fire vs logistics thing myself once 
Not sure how to solve that, tbh.
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Raucha
A.W.M
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:11:00 -
[123]
Just because you're in a SC/WC/FC slot, doesn't mean you actually have to be in command of anything. Well, OK the FC/WC probably will be, but the SCs sure don't. If the WC can warp the Wing, the SCs can just hang out for the ride. Or, the SC/WC can be navigator and admin type, while another member of the gang uses something like, I dunno, TS or Vent to actually tell everyone what to do.
That's how it works in a lot of gangs now anyways - gang leader does navigation and admin, while someone else in the gang actually directs the fight.
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Celestis Kudzu
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:18:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Kanuo Ashkeron
What happens if someone has fleet/wing command not at level 5?
Can he still form a fleet/wing and his bonuses only apply to a part of it? Or are there no bonuses at all if the fleet/wing exceeds his maximum size (skillwise)?
Kanuo
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Umbriele
Gallente
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:18:00 -
[125]
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Sensi Milla
A gang limit of 50 will needlessly cripple alliance combat when Kali hits, since nobody will be able to train the skills until they are released - and even then, with good skills it will take at least a month to match a 50 man gang limit.
You'll be capable of having a Fleet of 256 members right away, the only problem is that you won't be capable of having the Fleet Commander active until he has sufficient skills to run an army of that size. So the only difference is that this single Commander can't be giving gang bonuses to this big group of players.
TomB, how this will apply to mining gang bonuses? Do we need commanders to get the mining foreman bonuses and the (still broken) mindlink bonus?
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Elve Sorrow
Amarr
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:26:00 -
[126]
TomB, what about this scenario:
A Wing of 5 Squads, with a Wingleader without Gang Mods. Squad 1 has a Squad Leader with Gang Mods. Squad 1 gets the gang bonus, the rest does not. (This makes sense)
You stated that only one Gang Bonus is given to an entire gang, so what happens if:
Squad 2 has a person with Gang Mods join, and he's made leader. Can he run his own Gang Mods (which again only affect his Squad), alongside Squad 1s, or does the 1-bonus-per-gang limit apply?
It's great being Amarr, aint it?
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Umbriele
Gallente
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:27:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Tuxford
Originally by: Kai Lae
One of the biggest problems is that CCP have forgotten to seed these new skills on the test server, so currently it's impossible to test it out for bugs :)
BAH I'll get right on it
Contracting skill too please....
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Andargor theWise
Disbelievers of Fate
The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:27:00 -
[128]
Will there be an autopromote feature? You could tag your direct subordinates in order to take your place in case you pop, if they have the skills.
Also, will ships spotted by scouts appear on the map. "Enemy Spotted" usually doesn't cut it for an FC, he/she needs ship composition and complement as well, if there's a bubble, etc.
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Got grief?
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Rafein
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:29:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Raucha
Just because you're in a SC/WC/FC slot, doesn't mean you actually have to be in command of anything. Well, OK the FC/WC probably will be, but the SCs sure don't. If the WC can warp the Wing, the SCs can just hang out for the ride. Or, the SC/WC can be navigator and admin type, while another member of the gang uses something like, I dunno, TS or Vent to actually tell everyone what to do.
That's how it works in a lot of gangs now anyways - gang leader does navigation and admin, while someone else in the gang actually directs the fight.
Well, the SC would be needed to give bonuses to that squad, if your caring about bonuses.
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El Yatta
Caldari
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:29:00 -
[130]
I am a little confused but I am sure once I can test it out it will be good. I love the broadcasts and the idea that you need to keep your commander alive. This is good stuff Tomb!!
Two major concerns though:
1) You say that commanders not reciveing other people's bonuses is a technical issue, but then seem to dismiss it as insignificant. Its really not! This MUST be fixed before Revelations comes out, its just crushing for smaller groups who dont have the luxury of lots of non-command people to receive the bonuses, and really need the commander to be fighting at full ability with the rest of the squad. Its not acceptable for it to be left lying around for months, as it just penalises small gangs and highly-specialised people.
2) How does it work for a small gang (6-10) that frequently uses two command ships separate from the normal ganglead? (so two people distributing bonuses from modules, and one calling targets, gangwarping and also has some gang skills so gives some minor bonuses there). I am guessing that such a small group (that has trained carefully to use the exact combinations that work for them to high specialisations, and work together as a team) would have the rather clumsy system of forming two squads in a wing, with the (actual tactician) commander as a Wing Commander, the two command ships as Squad Leaders, (Despite the fact that there's few enough people that only one squad and one squad commander would be normally needed) and therefore everyone would get their needed bonuses (EXCEPT the Wing Commander unless you fix that issue above)?
OR: can the second wing not receive benefits from the first wing's command ship/leader, so in fact the only way to get the bonuses around in this system is to form a FLEET (for TEN people??) and have one command ship as the Wing commander, the second as the squad commander, and the poor actual commander has to train up to be a Fleet Commander?
If the former its not a problem with the system as such, its just very inelegant for small gang combat. Imagine that, as sometimes we do, such a small gang wanted to use all 4 command ships, giving very powerful bonuses across their small gang, but sacrificing 4 damage ships (or only using one link on field commands) for that benefit, they would need to form 4 squads in a wing to get the benefit they have specialised for so long in.
If the latter it is completely contradictory to your stated goal: "The reason for this change is to make more use of gang command/bonus based characters and to make specialized characters that focus on gangs a more common choice for players." In large situations MANY people will need these high-demand skills (ok!), and in small gang situations nobody will bother with command ships because to get some nice combos of bonuses you will have to have half your corp "in command"!. This is a nasty, unneeded nerf to small gang combat if so.
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Serapis Aote
TBC
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:35:00 -
[131]
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Two step
Does the bonus comign from squadron, wing and fleet commanders mean that you can get 3 bonuses stacked? Or is it just the highest bonus like it is now?
Highest bonus counts, like how it is now.
But you will be able to get 3 different bonuses though right. Just not be able to stack 3 identical bonsuses.
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Lily Savage
CryoTech
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:36:00 -
[132]
FC in a carrier at a safe spot - how's he going to call targets?
Can other ppl apart from the FC call targets?
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PCX339
Beasts of Burden
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:37:00 -
[133]
I know it's been mentioned but PLEASE make the gang window detachable in some way. Right now the overview + drones + gang = not enough space. Any drone or fighter user who wants to monitor the status of his units in space will run out of space VERY fast.
Just adding my voice to the din...
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:40:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 07/11/2006 16:45:22
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 07/11/2006 16:43:33
Originally by: Lily Savage
FC in a carrier at a safe spot - how's he going to call targets?
Can other ppl apart from the FC call targets?
Maybe, just maybe, CCP doesn't want you to park your carrier (and FC) in a safespot.
Not that it would be very smart in Kali, anyway. The new probe system looks like it will make safespots something you don't want to sit in for over half a minute if there's a hostile covops in the same system. Busting them will be easy and ultrafast, especially when looking for big ships like a carrier.
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Frools
The Priory
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:40:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Lily Savage
FC in a carrier at a safe spot - how's he going to call targets?
Can other ppl apart from the FC call targets?
guess you'd just have to call targets the old fashioned way, over vent/ts 
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NightmareX
Caldari
MAFIA
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:45:00 -
[136]
TomB, is the 'Warp To 0km' option going to hit TQ, yes or no?, or are that only on sisi to reduce some lag since sisi can't handle so many peoples atm?
I hope you can answer on this
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Sir Juri
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:47:00 -
[137]
Originally by: NightmareX
TomB, is the 'Warp To 0km' option going to hit TQ, yes or no?, or are that only on sisi to reduce some lag since sisi can't handle so many peoples atm?
I hope you can answer on this
I asked twice allready here, but no answer 
**** need to make a new sig... |
Lily Savage
CryoTech
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:49:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 07/11/2006 16:45:22
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 07/11/2006 16:43:33
Originally by: Lily Savage
FC in a carrier at a safe spot - how's he going to call targets?
Can other ppl apart from the FC call targets?
Maybe, just maybe, CCP doesn't want you to park your carrier (and FC) in a safespot.
Not that it would be very smart in Kali, anyway. The new probe system looks like it will make safespots something you don't want to sit in for over half a minute if there's a hostile covops in the same system. Busting them will be easy and ultrafast, especially when looking for big ships like a carrier.
I think you're right, but as previously noted, the FC is going to be a big target #1.
Perhaps fleets are intended to look like scaled up models of ASCN's team in the last championships? A kind of armour repping circle jerk?
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NightmareX
Caldari
MAFIA
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:49:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Sir Juri
Originally by: NightmareX
TomB, is the 'Warp To 0km' option going to hit TQ, yes or no?, or are that only on sisi to reduce some lag since sisi can't handle so many peoples atm?
I hope you can answer on this
I asked twice allready here, but no answer
Yeah i know, so i just thinked oh well lets ask him to, maybe he will answer then
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Miranda Duvall
Gallente
OPM Holdings
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:51:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Miranda Duvall on 07/11/2006 16:53:37
Would it be possible to get a skill rename? Just for clarity..
As it stands now:
you can command a fleet: Fleet Command
you can command a wing: Wing Command
you can command a squadron: Leadership
you are very good with gang modules: Squadron Command
Please change it into:
Current "Leadership" becomes "Squadron Command"
Current "Squadron Command" becomes "Warfare Link Specialist"
All the names then actually reflect what they do, keeping the current "Squadron Command" as is will generate a lot of confusion, and if you're ever going to change it, now is the time, since it's all new to all of us anyway.
skills top 20
My skill list |
SengH
Black Omega Security
The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:51:00 -
[141]
Are gang bonuses still subject to the limitation that they affect people in the same system and undocked? If so wouldn't a logical compromise be to allow gang bonuses to affect people not in the same system, given the new restrictions. (With increasing range as fleet/wing command skill increases (its a rank 12 skill ffs).
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Back for a month cus Awu5 finished..... |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:59:00 -
[142]
I have a question:
You say that the Commanders not recieving each others bonuses is a bug that'll be fixed. So lets pretend its already fixed.
Me and my mate decide to go yaaaaar for a bit. I have Skirmish Warfare 5, he has Siege Warfare 5. Would it be possible for me to make myself Wing Command, and him Squadron command? Say there are 3 of us, Could I be Fleet Com, matey#1 be Wing Com, and matey#2 be Squad Com (so #2 gets all bonuses, #1 gets his and mine bonuses) despite there being no actual Squad Members?
In other words, is it possible to have everyone in gang Commanders (all up to 31 of us) with no members?
Seems a bit silly.
Anyhow, love the whole new Gang thing. EVE just got many deggrees better
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Parallax Error
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:04:00 -
[143]
I like the general idea, but I have got a big issue with the whole plan is that of the gang assist modules only being applied to the people you command.
If this goes through, to use gang assists you have to become an exceptionally obvious target or lose a lot of the functionality of the new system. It's a massive change to the way anyone using gang assists play, you have to now assume a front line command role or your screwed.
I can understand why having to check so many peoples skills in large gangs causes lag, but can we not have a gang support role assignable like the current scout role? If the leader of the formation isn't using gang modules they can set one person to be their proxy instead? So for instance the Fleet Commander could set one pilot as Gang Support instead of themself and that person would then affect the entire fleet. Then each Wing Commander could do the same?
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Rafein
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:08:00 -
[144]
you already are a taget when running gang assist mods, cause the only ones wo can run tham are BC's. It's pretty east to pck out who is running the mods.
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Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:10:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Hardin on 07/11/2006 17:13:40
Okay I have read through the blog and all the replies and I am still confused.
I trained my Hardin account (over six months on Command Ships/Leadership skills) to fly a ****ation specifically set up to boost a gangs skills.
I also have a second account which is my active PvPer.
The entire logic behind this was that I could bring in Hardin with the fleet, go to safe and give entire gang benefit of my specialised siege warfare skills from behind the front lines. Old Hardin was never an up close and personal kinda pilot 
This allowed me (not being a great multitasker) to get on and enjoy the dirty action with Siobhan my PvP focused account while Hardin ate his sandwiches and watched the scanner for probes.
So what I am being told now is:
a) Hardin now needs to command either a fleet, squadron or squad in order to convey bonuses. Correct?
b) Hardin now has to be in the same grid as the action to provide his bonuses - making him a primary target. Correct?
It seems nonsensical to me that commanders who historically stay away from the frontlines to direct operations are being forced into the thick of the action.
It's like asking Napoleon to lead the line at Waterloo or Rommel to captain the first tank into action at El Alamein. It is in my mind counter-intuitive that people who have trained for command ships should be forced to get themselves killed because of that choice - especially when there was no warning that this change was in the pipeline.
c) If I understand correctly the 'fleet commanders' skills now dominate the entire fleet (if the appropriate gang command skills have been trained and squads activated). So what happens when you have two command ships in gang - one of whom has trained up on skirmish warfare and has a mind control link and the other who has specialised in siege warfare and has a mind link. Do both sets of bonuses apply across the entire fleet - or only the bonuses of the highest ranked command ship pilot (fleet commander)... I ask this as many people actually consulted each other and chose specific gang boost skills to complement each other and that seems to have been a tad of a waste.
Maybe I am being dense but I this does seem overly complicated and I am a believer in keeping things simple.
I suppose we will have to see how it plays out.
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Blog's back - for now
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SengH
Black Omega Security
The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:11:00 -
[146]
Also theres another issue I would like to bring up. In the current state you could hide your presence relatively well in the current gang systems from spies on TS/in gang. With the new gang system, your name is broadcast to everyone in your gang showing that you are broadcasting gang mods if your fleet command.Any hostile fleet will scan you down (with the new probing system) and nail you off the bat. Will there be an option to "compartmentalize" information allowing people only to see 1 tier above their current status? and only within their squad/wing/fleet?
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Back for a month cus Awu5 finished..... |
Jacob Majestic
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:15:00 -
[147]
Does this mean that from a practical standpoint the "rank and file" can only have three separate sets of gang mods acting on them at any point in time?
Wing Commander -- 3 skirmish mods + mindlink
Fleet Commander -- 3 siege mods + mindlink
Squad Commander -- 3 armor mods + mindlink
Furthermore, say that a squad commander in this hypothetical fleet has trained up skirmish mods instead of armor mods. This means that his specialization is essentially worthless because there will be overlap with the wing commander, correct?
Also, I'd like to suggest a further change. Bonuses at a particular level should apply within a set context. For example, wing command bonuses should apply in a regional context, fleet command bonuses in a constellation context, and squad command bonuses in a system context. Or perhaps constellation, system, and grid, to encourage the commanders to be closer to the action. Or perhaps include a skill to widen the context (grid, system, constellation, region, anywhere).
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:17:00 -
[148]
Originally by: jeNK
"Milking the cash cow" springs to mind.
So we have pvp alts/mains
Industrial alts
Research alts
+ more (capital alts/mains?)
and now gang alts.
That just shows how borked and broken the SP system is. When I started playing the CCP statement was; quote: "you cannot max out a character in a month, more like 3 years". Where do we stand now? 17+ real life years under ideal circumstances (+5 implants)?
I have 3 character slots on my account, let me max out a character once every 3 years, that would still mean I'd be a subscriber for 9 years. Heck I wouldnt quit because my character would be maxed out anyway, I'm playing the game for content not to have that content locked away for tens of real life years because of a skillsystem.
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The BIG Lottery |
Galimiy Portret
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:18:00 -
[149]
It all looks very interesting. Well, it is hard to tell now how the system is going to actually function. I understand that devs wanted command ships to be what they are named after i.e. commanding position. Anyway, I feel that there could be some potential problems.
I feel that coupling the commanding position with the gang boosting position is actually putting a lot of weight on one single role as compared to other squad members. Also, it makes the leader very vulnerable by forcing him to be on the frontline in an expensive commandship which does not actually give any actual LEADERSHIP bonii, but rather SUPPORT bonii. That couples the commanding role with the support role and forces them to be on the frontline. As it is right now, a clever FC will use a CovOps to stay out of harms way and still be able to command the battle. Forcing him in a command ship puts up a very, very, very big sign in pink colour saying: "Shoot me first!". I mean, killing the FC is half way to winning the battle.
Another theoretical experiment. Imagine an inty wing or a tackler wing. If you want them to have bonii you will need to have a command ship in the wing. That is kinda, umm, kinky, having an inty wing warping around with a command ship.
Well, now that we don't know how it will actually play out, these are just some thoughts. :)
...and *PLEASE* implement "Warp to 0" on TQ! :) Thanks.
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Ozzie Asrail
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:25:00 -
[150]
I like the idea's and some of those features are real nice but i can't help think it's all a bit too complicated for "real world" use.
I think every eve dev needs to stop for a good few weeks and start playing the game. Alot of the recent idea's sound great in theory but EVERY dev should be playing the game and at the same time asking themselves the question "Is this fun?".
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