| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 .. 15 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Galimiy Portret
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
   |
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:29:00 -
[151]
Also, I think that the problem is that gang boosting, which, I believe, is a SUPPORT action is being incorrectly mixed up with commanding, which is a LEADERSHIP action. :) Just to clarify my thoughts. :)
|
Pick Me
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:30:00 -
[152]
 Originally by: EvilNate
zomg!! This stuff is really so fracking cool.
I have a question about the new gang system that doesn't relate to pvp at all.
Currently in pretty much any MMORPG, when a player does a mission/quest/whatever, he is able to share that mission/quest/whatever with another player. That player can the recieve a split of the LP and standings gains too.
Any chance we will see this implemented any time in the next 2837492874 years?
Nate
Absolutely NOT. This is why most other MMORPG go straight to hell.
In DAOC for example, a guy has 3 high level characters in a 'gang' with a new one he just created. So they go into a very hard place and start to fight with some very interesting macros. If a monster hit the newbee, he is instantly killed.
One macro is taking the group to a monster if there is'nt one in front of them.
One macro is reviving the newbee char each time he is killed.
Other macro make them all attack.
So each time a monster died, it's shared between the 'gang' members and thus the newbee go up in level.
The guy let the macros run when he sleep or at work and each 3 weeks, he has a nice new medium-high level character to sell for RL money (about 100$ depending on competiton).
In Eve, it's impossible to do that because of how the skills system work. But thoses that still sell character would be too happy to raise their standing that way, AND, we should'nt have people in large gang like Bob be able to get anything faster than everyone else just because they are able to form bigger gang. They already have the 'large numbers' bonus with all that come with it. |
Ather Ialeas
Amarr
Karjala Inc.
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:32:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Ather Ialeas on 07/11/2006 17:32:22
Hmmh, so you have to be a commander to be able to share out gangmod stuff...ok, that's enough of a reason for me not to train for Absolution/****ation (I'm only month away from ****ation atm) since I wanted to be a supportive member of the gang, not its leader. It has been proven that my real leadership skills suck so badly that I'd end up just killing my squad no matter what sort of Jove Wtfpwnmod I'd be running on it.
Well, at least I now can divert my ISK to my other projects, like...uh...hmm.
EDIT: Wonderful, the profanity filter attacks a name that is set by CCP itself 
|
Sir Juri
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:34:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Pick Me
Originally by: EvilNate
zomg!! This stuff is really so fracking cool.
I have a question about the new gang system that doesn't relate to pvp at all.
Currently in pretty much any MMORPG, when a player does a mission/quest/whatever, he is able to share that mission/quest/whatever with another player. That player can the recieve a split of the LP and standings gains too.
Any chance we will see this implemented any time in the next 2837492874 years?
Nate
Absolutely NOT. This is why most other MMORPG go straight to hell.
In DAOC for example, a guy has 3 high level characters in a 'gang' with a new one he just created. So they go into a very hard place and start to fight with some very interesting macros. If a monster hit the newbee, he is instantly killed.
One macro is taking the group to a monster if there is'nt one in front of them.
One macro is reviving the newbee char each time he is killed.
Other macro make them all attack.
So each time a monster died, it's shared between the 'gang' members and thus the newbee go up in level.
The guy let the macros run when he sleep or at work and each 3 weeks, he has a nice new medium-high level character to sell for RL money (about 100$ depending on competiton).
In Eve, it's impossible to do that because of how the skills system work. But thoses that still sell character would be too happy to raise their standing that way, AND, we should'nt have people in large gang like Bob be able to get anything faster than everyone else just because they are able to form bigger gang. They already have the 'large numbers' bonus with all that come with it.
Eh... whatever, I want co-op missions to, solo is sooo **** boring and missions allready is boring so having co-op would be a nice feature, perhaps only in lowsec-0.0 as I hope all missions above level 2 will be in lowsec and 0.0 anyway.
**** need to make a new sig... |
MOOstradamus
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:37:00 -
[155]
/me wonders what has happened to the Squadron Command skill on Sing ..
Not only is it unavailable to buy but its missing from my Characte Sheet too  
MOOCIFER  Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer |
Notleh
Eve Defence Force
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:39:00 -
[156]
TomB:
As it stands right now on Tranq there are Leadership and Squadron Command skills. Wing Command is unavailable.
On Sisi there are Leadership, Wing Commander, and Fleet Commander, but NO Squadron Command skill.
Since the Leadership skill will basically make you a Squadron Commander, will the Squadron Command skill make you a Wing Commander?
In other words, if I already have Squadron Command trained to 5, when Revelations comes out will that skill switch to Wing Commander 5 (like the Guristas Encryp Methods is changing to Caldari Encrypt Methods)?
If not, what happened to Squadron Command and what will happen to people whom have already trained it?
|
Pick Me
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:45:00 -
[157]
Originally by: DrAtomic
Originally by: jeNK
"Milking the cash cow" springs to mind.
So we have pvp alts/mains
Industrial alts
Research alts
+ more (capital alts/mains?)
and now gang alts.
That just shows how borked and broken the SP system is. When I started playing the CCP statement was; quote: "you cannot max out a character in a month, more like 3 years". Where do we stand now? 17+ real life years under ideal circumstances (+5 implants)?
I have 3 character slots on my account, let me max out a character once every 3 years, that would still mean I'd be a subscriber for 9 years. Heck I wouldnt quit because my character would be maxed out anyway, I'm playing the game for content not to have that content locked away for tens of real life years because of a skillsystem.
You cannot max out, it's specialization, in whatever you like so you are better than other that did'nt specialize in that. Now if you find it annoying and useless, you can change and start to train another specialization but you can always get back as you did'nt lose any old skill nor did you have to buy another character.
It's also nice to know that anyone you came across won't be a expert in all damage type, all ship type, all electronic warfare type... He will have FLAWS, just like you.
I don't see a problem in that design. |
Pick Me
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:49:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Sir Juri
Eh... whatever, I want co-op missions to, solo is sooo **** boring and missions allready is boring so having co-op would be a nice feature, perhaps only in lowsec-0.0 as I hope all missions above level 2 will be in lowsec and 0.0 anyway.
Nothing prevent level 4 and 5 missions to be given to a 'group' (corp or gang) so that when they come back successfully, the isk is shared by the game mechanics. Problem is that now, players decide how they share the loot (they cannot get all the same faction mod for example, so everyone has the freedom to choose to split as they wish).
I think that's the next thing with factionnal warfare. Maybe even group with stranger to do missions where the loot will be 'fairly' distributed between the participants.
Oh and, before I forget... ...and *PLEASE* NEVER implement "Warp to 0" on TQ! :) Invalidate all BM and prevent creating new one in the same grid as gates (would annoy sniper a little). Thanks. |
Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:59:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 07/11/2006 18:05:13
The fact that the overall fleet commander doesn't get any bonus's from the subcommanders is super lame. I've had guys training this stuff for months so that we could share bonus's...
And by forcing fleet commanders to have good gang skills and forcing good gang skill players to be decent fleet commanders you have taken yet another real life skill aspect out of the game. Not completely, better commanders with tons of leadership skillpoints will still be better than crappy commanders with tons of leadership skillpoints...but you could have a brilliant 2 month old player who just wouldn't be able to command the fleet properly because of lack of skills.
That is lame. CCP might as well start shipping us 20 sided dice so that we can roll to see who wins the fight. What makes eve unique is that real life skill has always meant a lot more than skillpoints in game. This reality is steadily slipping away. (scan probes anybody?, Automatic Orbit? Nerfage of anyting that moves fast?)
EDIT: I see the only reason the bonus's won't apply to the overall commander is because you're having trouble going up the tree. Stop sucking.
Shamis
|
Joram McRory
Caldari
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:10:00 -
[160]
Nice ideas, but the requirment for (yet more) skills f*cks it all up IMO.
There are plenty of time sinks for pvpers without every FC having to train up any more. It also ruins flexibility and takes no notice of RL - say i have a fleet or wing under my command and have to log for a bit - that's it, the whole fleet/wing is completley buggered if no one else has the skills.
Verdict
6 out of 10 - must try harder
Joram
My Photography site |
pardux
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:16:00 -
[161]
Is the fleet command skill still rank 14  ?
And when did anyone ever have any use for the health bar thingie in a gang bigger then 5 people o_O ?
:| should just remove it and reduce lag, or make that happen when gangs get bigger then 30.
Useing the overview to call targets is useless since your faster doing that with ts and either the targets warp out after 5sec or blow up. And if i get it right if you warp out and back in you wont see the target anyway. 
broadcast system will be nice for small gangs  , but useless for big fleets.
|
Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
The Nest
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:30:00 -
[162]
Thanks TomB the changes look pretty slick actually. And with the advent of Capitals recieving tons of HP there are definate reasons why I would park on the front lines.
Is there any possibility to further increase that incentive with allowing 2-3 gang modules active on a carrier?
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
|
Br0wn 0ps
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:35:00 -
[163]
I like everything except for the fact that the bonuses are not applied to the commanders from the higher level commanders, but since it is on the list to fix, should be okay.
Only question I have, is why the separation between gang and fleets, if the only difference is whether or not gang bonuses are applied???
|
marcouk2
Gallente
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:41:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Rafein
you already are a taget when running gang assist mods, cause the only ones wo can run tham are BC's. It's pretty east to pck out who is running the mods.
Unless you had the sense to have the gang mod people in an ss in the system, which the new organistion takes out, as the fc now has to be on the frontline and in a bc.
Aka insta-primary
|
Seppel da'FinNI
Cataclysm Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:51:00 -
[165]
First thing that surprised me, is this sentence, i quote "Commanders can only give gang bonuses and receive their own bonuses but can not receive bonuses from other commanders or normal members." - does this actually say, that a squad commander will not receive bonuses from his fleet commander? This does not make much sense, at least to me it does not.
Now lets imagine some situations. You have a nice fleet together and divide it according to tasks. One Squad for EW with lots of Scorpions, Rooks and Lachesis' and a nice Eos with all the Information Warfare Links - nice. Another Squad, maybe two with your main BS bulk, widely known as Damagedealers. Well, lets give them hmm a Sleipnir with a Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuverings to reduce Signatur Radius. Fleet Commander sits in a ****ation or Vulture, depending on the prefered tanking - armor vs shield. So far so good. Now what is missing? Right - tacklers .. well, what could these guys use best? Hmm.. Some speed bonus, bonus to propulsion jamming would be nice, too. Ok, lets give it to them. Claymore.. now how fast is this baby going? MWD'ing up to 2km/s if you are good - how is this gonna keep up with all those interceptors rushing by at 6+km/s? How will it lead its squad members effectively, if it is not in the same place? Can we have a "transmit view" button for squad commanders? Well, this will be a problem.
And it does not stop here. Your commanders will be _very_ vulnerable to enemy fire, because they cannot cloak (warfare links dont work while cloaked) and you loose a _huge_ advantage gained by gangboni if you have your commanders not sitting in command ships. How is a commander able to see a hostile camp for himself while trapped in a bulky command ship? right, not at all. There is a good reason why a lot of FCs nowadays tend to fly covert ops ships. And why we have specialized pilots with gang skills and mindlink implants - they want to do this, but they dont want to have all the fleet control buttons just because they trained for giving gang boni.
Suggestion: Introduce a fleet support wing, which has only 4 slots (maybe even less, so people have to choose) to house battlecruisers / command ships and have these boni count for all gang members. The rest of the structure is nice, but when did some commander look after reinforcements personally? they have staff for that. and why? to be able to concentrate on what they should do - leading their troops into battle (and win).
All i was saying could be said in two sentences:
Dont make it harder for FCs. Dont overspecialize.
Thank you for your attention, have a nice day.
Seppel
life's a game - sometimes you loose, most times others win. |
Serapis Aote
TBC
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:58:00 -
[166]
you all know your actual FC doesnt need to be in the command slot to still lead.
|
Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:01:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Serapis Aote
you all know your actual FC doesnt need to be in the command slot to still lead.
He does if he wants to utilize all the new gang features.
|
Cadman Weyland
ISS Navy Task Force
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:03:00 -
[168]
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Jet Collins
Ok Queston?
OK a gang of 2 corp m8 join togeather to do whatever.
One memeber has trained a crap load of Seige warfare skills
The other member has trained a crap loan of Skirmish warfar skills.
In the Current system both gang members get both bonuses.
In the new system The leader gets no bonuses and the gang M8 only gets the bonuse of the leader... If this correct?
If so this compleatly blows.
Yup, decide if you want the one with the siege or skirmish to lead.
That truely sux to be honest. So ive trained all the gang skills for nothing basically. Thanks a bunch.
Not often i dislike changes in game, this one i really dont like.
|
Fubear
Vogon Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:06:00 -
[169]
Is there any method of delegating gang command functions without giving up the fleet command position.
There are two types of people here who essentially get screwed over:
1) People who like to command but dont have/want the gang bonus skills.
2) People who have trained into command ships with gang bonus skills who don't want to command.
I fear the changes will force gangs to be led by people with SP over people who actually have the ability to organise and command people.
EXAMPLES
I have Wing Command IV with 40 of my buddies in four squads. I have a command ship in my squad also with Wing Command IV who can give awesome gang bonuses to my fleet if they were in the WC position. I want to make them Wing Commander, but at the same time I want to remain in overall command and be able to access the wing command abilities like invites and gang warps.
---
One of the first rules in large scale fleet combat is to kill and pod the gang commander. Sometimes fleet commanders are well known to the enemy, and sometimes there are spies in gang/teamspeak. As a concequence a lot of fleet commanders like to command from covert ops or force recon ships where they can command a battle without getting popped. In this situation a FC would want a command ship in the top position for the leadershp bonuses, yet still have full access to all of the FC tools so they can actually command their fleet (assume that the FC has the relevant leadership to be FC for the fleet).
|
flyinhedgehog
The Priory
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:07:00 -
[170]
:S generally rubbish tbh. No offence TomB but there are way more things that need attention in terms of fixing to start overcomplicating stuff that works pretty ok atm. You've put in all this stuff for repping and shield boosting I guess to try to and make logistics useful but in the middle of a fleet fight who is going to spare attention to this new fangled system when thereÆs so many other things that youÆve got to pay attention to in a fight? I still think the preferable option will be to warp out and repair yourself or get repaired; in which case you might as well use gang chat. If you still use logistics in fleet fights, guess who the primary after ew and possible fcs is? and consider how fast they go down when made primary. The amount that gang bonuses apply atm isn't really a good enough incentive to waste a person/people to boost a command ship enough to stop them being taken out by focussed fire. Not more than passing anyway (i.e. a couple of bs put logistics drones on them), in which case they might as well warp out.
The system for organisation of gangs is also too complicated and constricting imo. What I liked about eve originally was the freeform way it was put together. What made good pvp gangs was the way in which they worked together and organised themselves. If people can't stay quiet on comms/listen/do what theyÆre told by the fc, then they deserve to get the **** kicked out of them until they figure out how to deal with a more organised foe. Imo the new system will just confuse them more. Basically what IÆm saying is the whole fleet commander - squadron commander thing isn't really needed and places restrictions on how we play the game if we want gang boni.
If for example you assign a squad of tacklers and you have a squad commander in a command ship with the relevant modules to sit with the bs doing antisupport until he dies. Which will be quite quickly as because heÆs doing anti-support he wont have a tank (or if he does then heÆs a bit useless as anti-support). Now heÆs useless in a pod/back in station. No gang bonuses, no squad commander; this isn't really a problem as theyÆre all going after primaries, warping out and in etc making the whole thing kind of pointless in the first place. Why not just have the gang boni apply to the whole gang but as only say 1/2 of the gang is using them it doesn't really matter.
I don't like the restrictions on numbers in each wing/squad. I want to be able to have as many as I want in each section with a total cap on the fleet. Who are you to say that we can't have more than 10 members in a squad, sry sounded a bit aggressive but you get what I mean. In small gang pvp which you are apparently trying to promote generally you have very odd numbers and everybody tends to stick together anyway making having different squads pointless but this prevents having gang boni :S.
Having a fleet split up into fire teams is complicated enough on ts, in my experience (some peoples may differ) that it isn't as good in practice as in theory. You might as well have everybody in one channel and one person calling targets for everyone (possibly in fire teams). If you implement this on comms it will again be pointless as many people would rather use something they are comfortable with and have been using since they started rather than using an overcomplicated system even if it is supported by in game mechanics. Also seeing as your apparently going to have to pay for it seems a bit mercenary tbh, as if you want to join a corp. using it you will be forced to pay?
I do like the clean up of the gang ui, I found that it took up too much space and tended to lag you out etc when used (now mine doesn't even work but never mind). And the lock target stuff could be quite useful but what happens when the fc warps out and someone else takes over? Seems like another useless feature in practice tbh. Comms seems to be much more seamless when someone else takes over and it means that anyone can do it (theoretically) IÆm sure the person in command is already doing a lot with their mouse to efficiently be doing anything else. There seem to be some useless broadcasts as well...wtf is the point of enemy spotted. If a scout isn't on comms itÆs a pointless scout. Also no info apart from enemy spotted is useless, whereas the numbers, ship types, positions. Just seems like another gimmick tbh.
In summary sort out your priorities. Yes you need new content to keep people interested, but for god sake make sure itÆs properly thought through. Fix things that need fixing before you stick in a lot of half baked ideas that will need yet more balancing/nerfage. Sure there are some really good bits, but from my point of view it all seems a bit gimmicky, bit like the new star map zoomy thing.
|
Puls4r
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:08:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Puls4r on 07/11/2006 19:09:07
My first reply on this forum in more than 2 years of playing, because I'm really disgusted in reading this blog.
All the things about improvements of HUD, broadcastings, hierachy is really good and will improve tactical aspect of the PVP.
But, the things about how gang bonus aplly are not good. Hardin and some others have underlined most of the drawbacks of this sytem so I won't say it again, I will just take my case in exemple :
I have spent a lot of time in training for cmd ships and gang mods so I want to use these SP to help my gangmates and then I have to be a commander. The problem is that I'm not a good FC. So if I want to make my modules useful, I'll be the commander of the squad anyway but someone else will be the real leader on TeamSpeak. That means that the broadcast things for example will become useless in that case... Not much interesting then... |
flyinhedgehog
The Priory
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:19:00 -
[172]
(rant continued)
Comms seems to be much more seamless when someone else takes over and it means that anyone can do it (theoretically) IÆm sure the person in command is already doing a lot with their mouse to efficiently be doing anything else. There seem to be some useless broadcasts as well...wtf is the point of enemy spotted. If a scout isn't on comms itÆs a pointless scout. Also no info apart from enemy spotted is useless, whereas the numbers, ship types, positions. Just seems like another gimmick tbh.
In summary sort out your priorities. Yes you need new content to keep people interested, but for god sake make sure itÆs properly thought through. Fix things that need fixing before you stick in a lot of half baked ideas that will need yet more balancing/nerfage. Sure there are some really good bits, but from my point of view it all seems a bit gimmicky, bit like the new star map zoomy thing.
|
Sir Juri
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:23:00 -
[173]
Originally by: flyinhedgehog
(rant continued)
Comms seems to be much more seamless when someone else takes over and it means that anyone can do it (theoretically) IÆm sure the person in command is already doing a lot with their mouse to efficiently be doing anything else. There seem to be some useless broadcasts as well...wtf is the point of enemy spotted. If a scout isn't on comms itÆs a pointless scout. Also no info apart from enemy spotted is useless, whereas the numbers, ship types, positions. Just seems like another gimmick tbh.
In summary sort out your priorities. Yes you need new content to keep people interested, but for god sake make sure itÆs properly thought through. Fix things that need fixing before you stick in a lot of half baked ideas that will need yet more balancing/nerfage. Sure there are some really good bits, but from my point of view it all seems a bit gimmicky, bit like the new star map zoomy thing.
/signed it seemed great at first but now just gimmicky like you say, its getting harder and harder for me to see the point of the new gang system the way its presented now.
**** need to make a new sig... |
Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:24:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Serapis Aote
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Originally by: Serapis Aote
you all know your actual FC doesnt need to be in the command slot to still lead.
He does if he wants to utilize all the new gang features.
which ones...
clicking targets to show up on overview...still probably faster and easier to just call it over vent.
Inviteing people to gang and assigning. I would think that if the actual FC told the placeholder guy to do it, he would.
I look at this structure more as a gang bonus distribution mechanic then a RL leadership mechanic to be honest.
You can plop anyone with the skills in the FC slot, and not much will change IMO. I could be wrong though.
Well would you know it theres another really cool fact floating about. Aparently it seems that currently on TQ one of the reasons for the nodes crashing during large fleet fights is the insane amout of CPU the server has to use to figure out which person in a 500man gang has the highest bonuses to be applied to everyone and it has to display 500 health updates to every client in the system. Now the server only has to display 20 health updates and calculate 31 diferent gang skill relevancies.
So basicly everyone who was screaming to the dev's fix node crashes is to blame for the nerf of gang bonuses. Kinda ironic eh?
----
|
Victor Valka
Caldari
Archon Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:27:00 -
[175]
Originally by: flyinhedgehog
There seem to be some useless broadcasts as well...wtf is the point of enemy spotted. If a scout isn't on comms itÆs a pointless scout. Also no info apart from enemy spotted is useless, whereas the numbers, ship types, positions. Just seems like another gimmick tbh.
You can see where the enemy is on the map, both system or world. I can see how that is useful.
|
Derran
Minmatar
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:28:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Darpz
sorry don't like it. I like the interface changes, but I don't like the new gang setup for a numbers of reason
It nerfs carriers and command ships hard since it forces them to be commanders for the gang bonus's to apply but this doesn't work normally because well carriers sit in safe/pos away from battle and command useually do that same or are support killers since they do not have the ablity to work at the ranges that battles happen.
So why not make the carrier the 'commander' for the bonuses to apply and have someone else do the effective leading? I think it has been stated too that it was not really intended for carriers to sit in an out of the way place so really you are complaining about something player's really decided to do for themselves that the designers didn't forsee happening. True it is rather obvious but these are programmers.:) There is still also the rumor that there could be a T2 battleship designed as a command type of ship but that is only a rumor.
Originally by: Hardin
Okay I have read through the blog and all the replies and I am still confused.
I trained my Hardin account (over six months on Command Ships/Leadership skills) to fly a ****ation specifically set up to boost a gangs skills.
Um, you have been playing Eve probably as long or longer as me so you must have realized by now that sometimes things happen that make whatever you have anxiously trained yourself up for can be changed to work in an entirely different way. There is no way like with other games to retool yourself after they invent a new system you no longer want to pursue. I'm sitting with at least 12M wasted Skill points. That's just the way Eve goes.
Originally by: Hardin
It seems nonsensical to me that commanders who historically stay away from the frontlines to direct operations are being forced into the thick of the action.
It's like asking Napoleon to lead the line at Waterloo or Rommel to captain the first tank into action at El Alamein. It is in my mind counter-intuitive that people who have trained for command ships should be forced to get themselves killed because of that choice - especially when there was no warning that this change was in the pipeline.
See above. It also likely will not be the last time there is a significant change with no warning. Plus, the overall commander would have still kept aprised of what is going on either by watching the battle firsthand or through his subornidates. In a fast paced GAME like Eve, it seems more nonsensical to me to not be there at all because you can't make quick decisions based on a change in enemy tactics. You can't really do that when you sit out in the middle of now where and can't even see the battle. I don't think anyone should apply the 'alt argument' because there is some people who don't have one and focused the command skills on their only character. The whole idea of sitting in a 'safe spot' (which after the Kali changes isn't going to be as 'safe' anymore anyway) is just a load of crap. What kind of commander leads a fleet when he doesn't even know what is going on? You are an RP'r, right? *suspicious look*
Originally by: Hardin
Maybe I am being dense but I this does seem overly complicated and I am a believer in keeping things simple.
Aim laser, make pew-pew, target dies, game over? I'd rather it be complex personally. My skills are ALL over the place because things have been so simple for years.
|
Sir Juri
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:30:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Matrix Aran
Originally by: Serapis Aote
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Originally by: Serapis Aote
you all know your actual FC doesnt need to be in the command slot to still lead.
He does if he wants to utilize all the new gang features.
which ones...
clicking targets to show up on overview...still probably faster and easier to just call it over vent.
Inviteing people to gang and assigning. I would think that if the actual FC told the placeholder guy to do it, he would.
I look at this structure more as a gang bonus distribution mechanic then a RL leadership mechanic to be honest.
You can plop anyone with the skills in the FC slot, and not much will change IMO. I could be wrong though.
Well would you know it theres another really cool fact floating about. Aparently it seems that currently on TQ one of the reasons for the nodes crashing during large fleet fights is the insane amout of CPU the server has to use to figure out which person in a 500man gang has the highest bonuses to be applied to everyone and it has to display 500 health updates to every client in the system. Now the server only has to display 20 health updates and calculate 31 diferent gang skill relevancies.
So basicly everyone who was screaming to the dev's fix node crashes is to blame for the nerf of gang bonuses. Kinda ironic eh?
Your just full of it, let me guess you started this BS rumor?
**** need to make a new sig... |
flyinhedgehog
The Priory
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:38:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: flyinhedgehog
There seem to be some useless broadcasts as well...wtf is the point of enemy spotted. If a scout isn't on comms itÆs a pointless scout. Also no info apart from enemy spotted is useless, whereas the numbers, ship types, positions. Just seems like another gimmick tbh.
You can see where the enemy is on the map, both system or world. I can see how that is useful.
My point was that if your in a gang and you have assigned a scout, unless that scout is on comms and can tell you exactly what your facing the scout is useless. Any info about the position of the enemy would be given along with ship types etc. totally superceding (sp?) the need for that broadcast. The above can be said in gang chat...so its a gimmick
|
Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:39:00 -
[179]
Edited by: Matrix Aran on 07/11/2006 19:41:40
Originally by: Oveur
A number of reasons for this change. We can start with the performance issues, the current model where it's the "best in gang for that attribute" is very expensive. It's also not the way we want to evolve gangs, the squads will get more specific bonuses if they have the correct group of roles, which directly penalize other types of roles in the squad (formation kind of thing).
If you have good commanders, you should benefit from it, if you have a load of mediocre commanders, you shouldn't benefit as much from it, if you don't have any commanders, you shouldn't benefit at all. That's just the same as traditional warfare. (Note, the level of commanders here is of course referring to their skill level, not their actual competency).
There are stress tests scheduled for the new gangs to compare with the stress tests of the old gangs on Singularity.
Taken from the Kali Testing forum sticky on gangs, page 2
Edit: And also:
Originally by: TomB
-Health bars are now also just shown for specific part of the group, based on where you are in the gang. The main reason for this is to optimize the gang service performance as status on health wonÆt be send to hundred of gang mates. In detail:
* Fleet Commander will only see health bars of the Wing Commanders.
* Wing Commanders will only see the health bars of the Fleet Command and the Squadron Commanders in their Wing.
* Squad Commanders/Members will only see the health bars of their Squad Members and their Wing Commander.
from the Dev Blog itself.
----
|
Sir Juri
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:47:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Matrix Aran
Originally by: Oveur
A number of reasons for this change. We can start with the performance issues, the current model where it's the "best in gang for that attribute" is very expensive. It's also not the way we want to evolve gangs, the squads will get more specific bonuses if they have the correct group of roles, which directly penalize other types of roles in the squad (formation kind of thing).
If you have good commanders, you should benefit from it, if you have a load of mediocre commanders, you shouldn't benefit as much from it, if you don't have any commanders, you shouldn't benefit at all. That's just the same as traditional warfare. (Note, the level of commanders here is of course referring to their skill level, not their actual competency).
There are stress tests scheduled for the new gangs to compare with the stress tests of the old gangs on Singularity.
Taken from the Kali Testing forum sticky on gangs, page 2
Okey so they are gonna make a stress test, I find it hard beeing less stress on servers with broadcastings, many divisions, commanders, the new map and voice not to mention more options etc (and lets not forget what happens when its on TQ.)
So you wanna blame node crashes or lag on the current system by this post you read? Even then they could improve the current system without all the stuff it has now. My beef its the new skills, the over complicated results the new system cause, the restrictions it comes with and, and...
**** need to make a new sig... |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 .. 15 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |