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Bloggers #41, TomB's new epic, Gangs of New Eden

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 24 post(s)
Apertotes Nuevos Horizontes O X I D E	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:57:00 - [61] will pilots be able to interact with gang mates that are on another squad? for example, if i am flying a logistic ship on squad #17, and a mate on squad #23 needs some help, will i be able to help him or will he die in a horrible way? at least, if i understood right, i wont be able to see his HP, so i will only be able to help if he sends a broadcast petition. am i correct? Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve

TomB	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:00:00 - [62] Originally by: Apertotes will pilots be able to interact with gang mates that are on another squad? for example, if i am flying a logistic ship on squad #17, and a mate on squad #23 needs some help, will i be able to help him or will he die in a horrible way? at least, if i understood right, i wont be able to see his HP, so i will only be able to help if he sends a broadcast petition. am i correct? You might see: [Broadcast Window] A Mate > Need Armor Repair! You clickit You get option "Lock Target" You select it You activate your remote repairers He still dies I loot him TomB Lead Designer EVE Online .

Silvero Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:07:00 - [63] How is the moving around gonna work for the diffrent squads/wings: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=422562&page=2#49
Apertotes Nuevos Horizontes O X I D E	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:07:00 - [64] Originally by: TomB Originally by: Apertotes will pilots be able to interact with gang mates that are on another squad? for example, if i am flying a logistic ship on squad #17, and a mate on squad #23 needs some help, will i be able to help him or will he die in a horrible way? at least, if i understood right, i wont be able to see his HP, so i will only be able to help if he sends a broadcast petition. am i correct? You might see: [Broadcast Window] A Mate > Need Armor Repair! You clickit You get option "Lock Target" You select it You activate your remote repairers He still dies I loot him you? and how many more? are you bringing your jove mates too? ****ed jove... it's like having ronaldinho on your team. anyway, good luck with all the testing. this could be a great new feature. Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve
G Dabak Magellanic Itg GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:09:00 - [65] Are you considering adding more roles such as someone who can invite or warp at the fleet/wing level who is not a commander of either? Dedicating someone to keeping the squads filled or moving the fleet around would free up the commanders to worry about larger things.
Kanuo Ashkeron Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:10:00 - [66] What happens if someone has fleet/wing command not at level 5? Can he still form a fleet/wing and his bonuses only apply to a part of it? Or are there no bonuses at all if the fleet/wing exceeds his maximum size (skillwise)? Kanuo
LC Sulla BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:10:00 - [67] Edited by: LC Sulla on 07/11/2006 14:12:52 Edited by: LC Sulla on 07/11/2006 14:11:42 If I'm reading this right then we will start to see more specialised squads forming led by a squad leader with highly developed, but specialised, leadership skills. But there does seem a slight inconsistancy that I would like to see addressed. For purposes of example lets consider a 10 man squad acting as the scout group for a fleet and remaining about 1-2 jumps ahead of the main fleet. So we could imagine this squad has some covert ops, force recons and interceptors. Our 'specialist' squad leader might have Skirmish Warefare Specialist IV, Squadron Command IV (for the link module bonuses - gather it will be renamed after Kali). In order to pass his bonuses at a maximum level to his squad he really needs a BC sized ship with link modules. This seems unsuitable for a squad whose sole responsibility is focussed around fast movement. Is there any plans for smaller command type ships which could mount a single link module? Something like a fast lightweight command cruiser or even allow a force recon to mount a single link module... Food for thought .
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:12:00 - [68] Originally by: TomB Originally by: Jet Collins Ok Queston? OK a gang of 2 corp m8 join togeather to do whatever. One memeber has trained a crap load of Seige warfare skills The other member has trained a crap loan of Skirmish warfar skills. In the Current system both gang members get both bonuses. In the new system The leader gets no bonuses and the gang M8 only gets the bonuse of the leader... If this correct? If so this compleatly blows. Yup, decide if you want the one with the siege or skirmish to lead. Thanks Well the good news than I don't need to bother with 50 more days or training seige skills. The bad news I have waisted 20day :p.
QwaarJet Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:16:00 - [69] Looks too complex tbh. The broadcast system looks good, but the changes to gang structure look very bad. I think we'll see most people just sticking with normal gangs unless there is a fleet battle, in which case there will be even more confusion than normal, although at least TS/VENT will be clearer. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Sir Juri Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:18:00 - [70] So if one has leadership lvl5 (the one existing now) and the other rank 2 skills (the ones existing now to) giving more armor/shield etc without gang modules, will they be able to have a squadron of 10ppl with the bonuses applied from those rank 2 skills? And can run that squad alone and as a squad in a fleet? without training the new skills? **** need to make a new sig...
Swamp Ziro EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:20:00 - [71] Originally by: Kanuo Ashkeron What happens if someone has fleet/wing command not at level 5? Can he still form a fleet/wing and his bonuses only apply to a part of it? Or are there no bonuses at all if the fleet/wing exceeds his maximum size (skillwise)? Kanuo Good question. I'd like to know too.
Murtac	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:21:00 - [72] There's a bunch of problems with this: 1) Forcing command ship pilots to be in the same grid makes sense, somewhat (even though it will lead to them sitting 500km away from the battle whenever possible), but forcing them to be squad/wing/fleet leaders doesn't. It forces us to appoint people as leaders who have no leadership capabilities (speaking of the person here, not the toon) just because they are the only ones who have the skills trained. 2) The gang unit size limitations are very impractical. A small fleet has, say, 12 battleships, 11 cruisers and 14 tacklers. Most FCs would like to put these into three groups, with one leader each, but the current system forces us to divide them into 3 wings with 2 squads each. That means we'll have 6 squads and 10 leaders (1 fleet, 3 wings, 6 squad). Sounds excessive... 3) Most fleets will want to split their members by shiptype. Bringing a command ship along to get the bonuses is just not possible in, for example, a ceptor wing. So, no gang bonuses for ceptors and (agile) cruisers. A sniper BS squad might bring a command ship along, but the command ship won't be able to do anything because it doesn't have the range.
Garia666 Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:22:00 - [73] FU guys.. so i have trained for my ****ation with all its skilz and implants and the only way my bonusses will help is when i am a commander.. WHy the hell did you gusy do that. If i knew that already i would have never trained for it.. You guys suck badly ->My Vids<-
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:25:00 - [74] One of the biggest problems is that CCP have forgotten to seed these new skills on the test server, so currently it's impossible to test it out for bugs :) Raptor and Ares Fix
Cabadrin Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:31:00 - [75] Very, very excited about this. _______________________________________________

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:34:00 - [76] Originally by: Kai Lae One of the biggest problems is that CCP have forgotten to seed these new skills on the test server, so currently it's impossible to test it out for bugs :) BAH I'll get right on it _______________

Edmund Khan Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:34:00 - [77] Please add a special role for gangs: inviter. So FCs can concentrate on leading the battle while someone else handles invites. Nice changes, was about time :)
Max TheRock Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:50:00 - [78] - we need an inviter role (like the others said) It seems to me that the FC will always be callled primary... How about if we allow the gang mod to be activated while cloaked on the CBC?
Paddlefoot Aeon Neogen Industries Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:50:00 - [79] Question for TomB: Say me and 3 mates want to go into enemy space and... mine for scrap metal (yaarrr). We gang up like we used to, go in, and let the PEW PEW start. Same as before. But.... If we want gang bonuses, we need to designate a Fleet Commander, Wing Commander and Squadron Commander? Or, can I just designate Friend #3 as a Squadron Commander, with all of us in his squadron, leave Wing and Fleet Commander spots empty, and have the squadron commander give us gang bonuses? This could also be applied to mining: Have an SC, no FC or WC, and have the SC give the "Covetor Army" the mining foreman bonus? So I guess my first question is "can we create gangs with holes in upper management, but still have a squad commander boost our skills?" Also, for those people who mine most of the time, most of their SP are in industrial skills. If a gang needs an FC to get a bonus, isn't that nerfing most mining corps?
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:51:00 - [80] Edited by: Vasiliyan on 07/11/2006 14:55:30 Originally by: TomB You'll be capable of having a Fleet of 256 members right away, the only problem is that you won't be capable of having the Fleet Commander active until he has sufficient skills to run an army of that size. So the only difference is that this single Commander can't be giving gang bonuses to this big group of players. \o/ Thankyou for this vital clarification, it should slow down the complaints :) While you're here, gangs could really do with being able to delegate the "invite", "warp gang to", and "tag" roles to multiple different people.
Mr Ninjaface Minmatar Shurekin INC	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:52:00 - [81] I think you have made this overly complicated.
Selthae Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:52:00 - [82] I can't say I like it. Some points yes, others absolutely not. It's great that you want to refine fleet combat and allow for more flexibility in fleet makeup and structure, but you're radically changing gameplay, and messing with a lot of players choices in how to be part of fleet ops. Originally by: "The eve-o item database" command ships Battlecruiser-class vessels, designed to aid their allies on the battlefield. gang assist modules Modules used to assist gang members. armored warfare link - passive defense Grants a bonus to the gang's armor resistances. Originally by: "Claymore description" while not packing the punch of their field command counterparts, the boosts they give their comrades in combat make them indispensable assets to any well-rounded fleet. EVERYTHING there, not only suggests but states that you, as a pilot, can boost the gang. First you add leadership skills to make the Charisma attribute more usefull, that was great. And now you effectively kill the entire charisma tree again for those who are not squadleader or above. The reason why I trained my main and an alt for Command Ships was for the boosts they give their comrades, to be able to have Modules used to assist gang members, and so they could use the ships designed to aid their allies. Things would have been different if this path would have been communicated to the playerbase when you introduced commandships and made it continuously abundantly clear. Not when the playerbase is finally evolving to be able to use these ships effectively.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:55:00 - [83] So lemmie get this straight... You can have a flat gang of 50 pilots, but no gang bonuses will come into effect. Howevever, if you convert your gang into a squad (max 10 pilots per squad + commander); then they get any bonuses provided by that squad leader (but noone else in the gang). What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Tundaar Minmatar Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:57:00 - [84] Hmmm - this it seems will change targetting so that the first primary will always be Commanders to cut off the bonuses. Adminstratively most fleets (currently) have the equivalent of an Executive officer to handle the administrative tasks - (invites, moving from point A-B etc) while the FC concentrates on strategy and targetting. Sounds like the FC's job (person) just got a LOT harder. Not only do they have to do all the strategic stuff but train a bunch more skills for command ships/command skills while not being able to utilise their own combat skills. It is a fact of life that people are NOT their Eve Characters. People who have no RL ability to command fleets can still (currently) assist within the Eve universe by having their *character* train leadership skills, get implants and train command ship skills to assist their gangs. Now this ability becomes wasted because they (as a person) may not be capable of commanding a fleet. On the other hand, those who have the ability to command a fleet now have to use their characters to train a bunch of skills to assist their fleet. (Which effectively rules most new players, regardless of how talented, out of command positions as they will not have the ship/command skills necessary) Would it not make more sense to simply apply command bonii within the Squad that the character is attached to wjile also allowing for a higher command bonus from above? This would allow people (in a RP sense) to assist with a bonus, would not waste current SP trained and would also allow a command bonus hierarchy at sqad/wing/fleet level. It would also partially do away with the issue of no bonus for ship specific gangs (scouts, 'ceptors etc). As a nice aside it would also allow for "Elite" squads eg: An Inty Squad where everyone has Information leadership spec so no maatter who you kock out they still all get a bonus . . . . .could lead to very specialised Gangs.
flakeonium Amarr Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:58:00 - [85] Originally by: TomB so that players with no mic would start feeling left out in the cold. Please implement keyboard control for ships because players with no MOUSE start feeling left out in the cold... Or is there only one person in island that has a microphone blueprint? But anyway, good and long needed stuff in kali. -------------------------------------------------- *<(:-}
Mr Ninjaface Minmatar Shurekin INC	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:10:00 - [86] I think you just made the gang system crappier tomb. The way bonuses are getting applied is stupid. KISS (keep it simple stupid) Rule applies here. You seem to have addressed what people where asking for kind of. Give the ability to assign roles in a gang. EX other people can gang warp other people can gang invite. Then you gimped it So now if a squad command warps his squad the FC gets left out and has to warp on his own etc. No reason to be the FC it seems like you need a **** load of skills and then you dont get and gang bonuses. Most people wanted this. Form gang everyone gets bonuses from the command ships and the FC can assign limited roles to other players with in the gang to gang warp and gang invite so he can focus more on strategy and tactics. The broad cast stuff thats all fine if it actually works. All the wings and squad crap is just useless
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:11:00 - [87] Originally by: Adam Reed Hang about... "gang bonuses of any kind (skills, modules) have been disabled completely" ...now, I know this thread seems to be all about combat, but I just want to check - this doesn't mean non-combat gang bonuses have been scrapped as well does it? The extra 10% yield for a gang with Mining Foreman level 5 is what I'm principally thinking of. Ummm, I'd think that's exactly what it means. "...of any kind (skills, modules)...". I think it's pretty clear. Otoh, it's trivial to train Leadership (rank 1) to 4 or 5, and even with just 4 you have a "fleet" size of 8 -- enough for many mining ops. Push it to V, and get a few quick levels of Wing Command, and you're suddenly at 30 or so members -- and that's only about 5 days of training. Not a biggie.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:13:00 - [88] Fix the Mining Foreman Mindlink Implant as well This is good news, it means that I am not training a gang alt for nothing hehe And I better start training Fleet Commander 5 asap so that I can command my entire alliance (and ofc Sovereignty 5). EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Sha'Uri Dark Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:15:00 - [89] Sounds great, now not only do the characters need the right skills to lead but the players behind them will need the skills to lead. Quote: Commanders can only give gang bonuses and receive their own bonuses but can not receive bonuses from other commanders or normal members. A normal Squad Member how ever can receive bonuses from three possible parties: his Squad Commander, his Wing Commander or the daddy Fleet Commander himself. If I understand this correctly a base level squad member can in theory receive 3 gang bonuses from 1) his squad leader 2) his wing leader and 3) the fleet commander provided their all fitted to boost different things. Oh and evenly distributed stats FTW! ------------------------------------------------- As a Freelancer the thoughts and opinions contained within this post are my own. Don't like them feel free not to complain to me about them.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:15:00 - [90] Originally by: Mr Ninjaface All the wings and squad crap is just useless Speak for yourself. I think the fleet organization it gives you is a big bonus. I've been in too many fleets which have been total chaos due to confusing FC and poor organization. Sure, a good FC can overcome all that, but you don't always have the luxury of a good FC. Having the game enable you to organize scout wings, sniper wings, etc in a clear fashion is a big help, especially with the style of smaller gangs we tend to use in pirate hunts and empire warfare in general.

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