EVE Search - Bloggers #41, TomB's new epic, Gangs of New Eden

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Bloggers #41, TomB's new epic, Gangs of New Eden

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 .. 15 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 24 post(s)
Arain	Posted - 2006.11.13 01:42:00 - [391] This reminds me of changes made in EQ to benifit a elite few, at the cost of your more casual player. This was changed for the small number of players who regularly are involved in large fleet battles. That is what less then 10 percent of the game? But it is done at the cost of more average player who simply trained these skills so they could be of benifit to small gangs involved in things like complexes, mining, or small group ratting. All to benifit only those involved in large group battles. Once again it shows that the only players of importance to the Devs is those who only play the game for PvP.
ramylax	Posted - 2006.11.13 02:48:00 - [392] hm
R3dSh1ft Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.13 08:56:00 - [393] CCP: stop alienating your playerbase who train skills for one purpose only to have their mechanics changed completely. nuff said. ______________________________________
Garia666 Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.13 09:01:00 - [394] Originally by: DeltaH This is worthless. Argument that this is needed to fix server performance is a lame excuse. -DeltaH Amen.. ->My Vids<- CCP= More skilz more moneh!
arjun Viziam	Posted - 2006.11.13 10:48:00 - [395] the new fleet system is overly complicated imo but i guess one can adapt. select new squad leader in the middle of a fleetfight when gangmembers get wrecked left and right? suddenly i have 30 km less targeting range because the fc dropped? fleetcomanders burn out easily especially on long campaigns. they are most times happy if somebody else takes over for a while. that will be much more difficult now because only the guys with the best skills are the natural choice for fC/WC/SC. that means comandship 5 and a mindlink. so i dont see the rooky fleetcomanders emerging so easy now. very bad overall. linking the out of game ability to leed a fleet with the ingame skills is a bad and not thought out choice. 2 possible solutions come to mind: a) let the respective SC select the person which gives out the gang boni. if he doesnt, then he is the one himself. that would bring specialised supporters to the specialised squads. like scirmish warfare guy in the tackler squad or the information warfare guy in the ew squad. b)let the FC select 1 char in the fleet for each race so the game hasnt to check so many chars. that can be roles the fc can fill with the chars he chooses like slots. let the whoile gang profit from the boni of those chars. in both cases give the selected gang support gu the ability to choose his own replacement beforehand for the case he drops from the gang or looses ship. ill just mention m example. i have a maxed ew char. m other char is a trader for which i looked for other useful skills for the corp/alliance. so i let him max out information warfare with mindlink. that char would never be any use in the frontline (gunnery + drones together 30k skillpoints) he was alwas intended to sit at a pos to give out the boni from afar while the ew guy fights in the main battleship group. forcing the fc to be in a comandship in the middle of his battleships is disturbing. the comandships will die so often. did i mention lag? what will happen if the fc crashhes or his game freezes as happens so often today? who will take over in this chaotic situation?
Morgit Seebring Gallente Dark Knights Inc	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:55:00 - [396] Those of us who mine in a small gang of 2 - 4 players... how will all this affect us? Live long, be honourable and laugh often. Remember... it's a game!!
Striker IV Gallente Brother in Arms Corp	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:53:00 - [397] ok , done reading this thread ( took me ...+5 hrs) i copy and pasted some on a notepad of ideas i like. 3 things that jumped out at me christ , im gonna need a supercomputer. - this 2.53ghz dell is gonna melt with all that information on screen. - in all of those screenshots, the objects in space and selected item were CLOSED - you cannot fight a war like that. i lag for 5 seconds taking drones out of my bay on missions. kinda on the same thought is the ammount of information onscreen. In 1 screenshot , the person had +5 channels open. next up quick quote Quote: The amount of whining from people here who are shocked and dismayed that Leadership skills and Command ships suddenly will start applying to, you know, "leadership" and "command", is quite amusing. Need more popcorn. Cool In reply to this. these were pre-requisites simply because there were no other skills loaded ( since beta.. ahem) to give the proper amount of " time sink" for training gang assist modules. Gang assist modules are the natural progression up from logstics as i see it. helping 3-5 targetable people at a time -> Assisting many more With gang modules. IDC if i have to train another skill to lvl 5 to fully use the logistics i have/and will have Trained, but im dumb as a post in matters of actually commanding everyone, But dont make them 1 and the same as it seems we are headed that way. Tomb posted later he is hoping to augment the logistics targeting ( Bless you good start) Command and Gang assist, should be separated - by skills, or by assigning roles. 3 lastly costs and visability - As mentioned here a couple of times Commanders and people who are giving module based bonuses are going to be sitting in some very expensive setups. mindlinks, ship, modules, and clones. Wow. i estimate i have reserves for ......2 fights. ouch. I have always been a helper person ( rl tech/phone support ) in all the games i have played. save for the Medal of Honor series were i was a sniper god. I enjoy assisting, helping, repairing ,rearming, refueling, even shielding others who are smarter, faster , have better computers , better situational awareness gifts , and have more money for that Beautiful 30" dell Flatscreen It gives me great satisfaction to be recognized for what i do. Some people like seeing those bars go down. It like to see them go back up. Striker
Cethrie Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:51:00 - [398] Wow.. in a lot of ways this is just confusing.. and smacks a little of the time sink that is Capital ships. Just doesn't give you a greater playing experience. Please answer the following: If I'm a squad commander, and I have all five basic leadership skills to 5 (siege, skirmish, info, armor, leadership (this is being replaced I understand?), I used to apply the following bonuses. 10% lock time 10% armor 10% shields 10% lock range 10% speed Do these bonus's still apply to my squad? If I become a fleet commander do they apply to every one regardless of which squad/wing they are in? This change has a lot of holes in it. Here is one example. Fleet 1 * 5 T2 Sniper Rokhs Fleet 2 * 4 T2 Sniper Rokhs * 1 Vulture with 3 siege warfare command modules. They conviently assemble 200km's from each other for some Sniper Pew Pew. Bringing some sort of ammo cart with them. Problems that this change has introduced (in my opinion) for this scenario: * To be viable at that range the Vulture would need to have a setup that is, well, very strange. (3 Sensor Boosters II's and 3 Tracking Computer II's + spike may allow it to fire at 200kms). So the commandship clearly doesn't have the ability to support the ships its required to support. Imagine an absolution hanging with some T2 Megathrons. * There is a giant red target now painted on the side of the commandship (yes I understand in this contrived example the command ship is unlikely to die as the fire power of the Rokhs isn't great enough, please feel free to work out the required number of Battleships to break a well tanked vulture). With no way to protect the command ship by "hiding" it behind the Rokhs, removing the enemy commander will do immense damage and the "defenders" can't stop you (without radically changing the role of the Rokh). * The command modules in this case on the vulture, will not provide enough benefit to the Fleet 2 to actually make up for the loose of the firepower provided by the extra Battleship. (This is due IMHO to command modules being insanely underpowered).
franny Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.11.14 05:11:00 - [399] Originally by: Morgit Seebring Those of us who mine in a small gang of 2 - 4 players... how will all this affect us? not much, the person with the highest lvl of mining director/foreman just has to make a 'squad' as opposed to a gang
Saladin Minmatar V I R I I Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.11.14 14:23:00 - [400] I am confused, but I guess I need to check this out for myself. The way I understand it is that only one person in the fleet can be handing out bonuses. So if two people in an alliance trained up their skills or fitted mods to compliment each other (e.g. information and siege), then the fleet members would only receive bonuses from one person. In other words, the fleet should only have one person trained up in those skills. One thing I also wanted to add, while some battles last a long time, most are very quick encounters and I have serious doubts that people will try to fumble with the new broadcast system or enhancements in the heat of battle. ----
booh	Posted - 2006.11.14 20:11:00 - [401] If i got this correctly. 1. fleet, wing, squad commanders will have control over their group of people (like gang warping, regroup...) 2. bonuses will be assigned from fleet, wing, squad leaders only? what if the fleet has a titan, must he be the fleet commander to assign bonuses? this would be highly unpractical... cause if fleet commander have control over the whole group and hes leading fights, he can't do it in a titan/command ship.
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:34:00 - [402] So squadron command V needs to be trained to get wing command (yay! - not!) The only thing about this is it will suck equally for everyone. The broadcast feature looks naff too. Who fiddles about with "omg I need shields" when you can shout it over comms? (Not that this is likely to happen anyway) I'm underwhelmed with the whole concept. More stupid timesinks just so a few friends can gang up. Once they do we can only get bonusses from one? Pfft.
Taizu Lilith Minmatar Counterglow Kancho Unlimited	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:44:00 - [403] I think the whole point is to put Command ships in harms way.. Which makes a lot of sense. It also makes sense for the command ship to be, well, the command ship. I also think that they didn't like having the whole fleet being boosted by a few ships hiding in some remote place.. so they limited the ammount of ships that can boost (to 3) and made?? them have to be in the same area. BTW, about formations, please make it like with ships from long ago.. if I move in close enough I can target the sweatness without destroying the escorts first (of course, this probably leaves me wide open). That sort of thing is the stuff that movies and books are made of. (I know formations are a bit farther in the future) Note that thanks to TS, the leaders don't actually have to be on the Command ships.. they just have to sub delegate if that is the case (Hey Joe, please select the 120km Apocalypse). This makes a lot of sense also, if you aren't at the controls.. then there is some delay between your commands and their application. A possible expansion would be to make Capital ships be able to boost from any location in the solar system. This would mean that you could keep your Titan/Mothership hidden, but still boost with it (while Command ships would have to be in that grid). This would provide added functionality to the Capital ships.
Kothar Zanpheria	Posted - 2006.11.15 01:45:00 - [404] I really like what is being added here for gangs, now squadrons, wings, fleets, very very good. However, I think it will take the addition of formations to really make this new capability really sing. I personally think that formations are mandatory. Anyway, I am really looking forward to this upgrade. Keep up the great work!
Silvatico Far Ranger	Posted - 2006.11.15 01:56:00 - [405] Originally by: Zothike I'm not sure to understand, does it mean that if I'm in a BC with gang modules, for the bonus to apply to all members I have to be the leader of the entity .. to give bonus to all the squadron? If I don't want to be a leader then I'm useless? Then GANG modules = being FC? Many prefer to be gang minions and will have their 'gang-supporting leadership SP' converted magically to 'wasted SP'. CCP folks seem like fair-minded people, so I must assume that they will offer a way for us to reallocate our now-wasted SP to the skills we would have trained in light of this dramatic change to game mechanics.

TomB	Posted - 2006.11.15 15:21:00 - [406] Originally by: Yatars Sister OK, someone PLEASE clear this up for me.... Does the commander HAVE to be within 500km of the fleet to provide the bonuses, or do the bonuses still work while he's at a safe spot. If you're forcing carriers to the front line with such pathetic cap/tanking abilities (they really do instapop) then I strongly disagree with this decision. Nothing will change with distance where bonuses can be applied from. TomB Lead Designer EVE Online .

Shira d'Radonis Amarr Minmatar United Freedom Front Electus Matari	Posted - 2006.11.15 16:42:00 - [407] I do like a lot of these features you have planned... but I can definitely see many of the problems people are mentioning. One thing that I think might help would be some kind of way that you could create a "staff" so to speak for commanders... basically, you would be placing people within each tier of the hierarchy that would manage gang bonuses and what might be deemed "administrative" tasks. This way, the overall commander can be the most competent person and not necessarily the one with the best Leadership skill points since, as has been explained, these two things are often not synonymous. From a gameplay perspective, it makes good sense to me, and from a realism/RP perspective it also makes sense... generals and admirals of armies and fleets obviously had lower-ranking officers that commanded individual units of troops and ships, but they also had around them a number of underlings who handled the technical interactions between commander and lower-level leaders. So such staff officers would not have command of a unit and would be considered part of the tier in which they are placed and not a part of any lower unit... so the Fleet Commander could have staff officers, Wing Commander could... maybe Squad Commander, but that might be excessive. Just a thought :) I think that whenever you create a new system, you have to provide a level of flexibility, and the current model seems rather rigid. I think adding some kind of staff officer position would be one way to add greater flexibility and resolve a lot of the issues I'm hearing from people in this thread. Gang bonuses granted by lower level Commanders (or staff were this to be implemented) should definitely only work DOWN. So a Squad Commander would only give bonuses to his own squad, a Wing Commander to his own wing and then the Fleet Commander to the fleet as a whole. Another possible idea is to have the gang bonuses differ depending on the command tier of its provider.. So, for example, a squad commander is in charge of relatively few ships, so the bonuses could be concentrated more providing more of a boost to the ships in his command while the Fleet Commander, having many many ships under him, might cause the effectiveness of the bonuses to be diluted... this way it does encourage fleet organizers to "leaven the bread" so to speak and distribute more people with leadership skills. Again, just a thought... I'd like to hear what people far more knowledgeable in PvP and fleet operations than myself think. Also, it might be good to have a simplified gang system for small gangs... maybe put a cap of 8-10 ships in such a gang which would work pretty much as they do now. Most of the examples I've heard so far pertain to huge fleets, so I'm not really sure whether the new system might be too complicated for small groups of a few friends doing missions together or something. Anyway, I just want to close by saying that I think you guys at CCP are doing a great job, and I'm looking forward to Kali how ever it turns out ----------------------------------------------- ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö "Our histories, one day, will absolve me..." - Shira d'Radonis
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.15 17:43:00 - [408] Edited by: Akiman on 15/11/2006 17:44:24 thats more like it!!! tho lag is the 'primary target' here...with it click...wait...enter command...wait...
bluebandit Amarr Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:36:00 - [409] looks awesome :)
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2006.11.15 22:51:00 - [410] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 07/11/2006 20:56:27 Originally by: Oveur A number of reasons for this change. We can start with the performance issues, the current model where it's the "best in gang for that attribute" is very expensive. If it is too difficult for you to code efficiently, then here's a simple solution: Just let the gang leader manually pick which player to be used as the "highest" gang bonus for each gang module. The commander knows who is the best, and if he doesn't, then oh well. Sometimes humans are the answer to your coding woes. Shamis QFT Better interface Vivox gimmicks SUPPORT skills shafted Though many of those support skillpoints were trained on alts meant for ss boosting anyway i'm guessing. Same gameplay rubbish as many carriers are being played now IMHO. Still... sick big time for the peeps that trained it on their main but for support, not for leading. I think Shamis' idea of the commander selecting the person who's skills are being applied (perhaps not for the whole fleet but for each individual wing or squad instead), is WAAAAAAAAAY better then this vague bullcrap.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:06:00 - [411] Originally by: Tobiaz Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 07/11/2006 20:56:27 Originally by: Oveur A number of reasons for this change. We can start with the performance issues, the current model where it's the "best in gang for that attribute" is very expensive. If it is too difficult for you to code efficiently, then here's a simple solution: Just let the gang leader manually pick which player to be used as the "highest" gang bonus for each gang module. The commander knows who is the best, and if he doesn't, then oh well. Sometimes humans are the answer to your coding woes. Shamis QFT Better interface Vivox gimmicks SUPPORT skills shafted Though many of those support skillpoints were trained on alts meant for ss boosting anyway i'm guessing. Same gameplay rubbish as many carriers are being played now IMHO. Still... sick big time for the peeps that trained it on their main but for support, not for leading. I think Shamis' idea of the commander selecting the person who's skills are being applied (perhaps not for the whole fleet but for each individual wing or squad instead), is WAAAAAAAAAY better then this vague bullcrap. ... because saying "only those in command positions give gang boni" is such a vague statement.
Azure Skyclad Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:19:00 - [412] A system-wide tactical view meshing information from dispersed gangs, probes etc seems like a logical next step from this. Any thoughts? http://www.voodoorockers.co.uk/
Radioact1ve BIG R i s e	Posted - 2006.11.19 10:29:00 - [413] This fleet command structure is very cumbersome. A squad size of 5 is too small, especially if you cannot have eve form the squads automatically... Also, I wonder if you can make it desirable to bring gang assist ships close to the fight. Maybe the command ships bonus' should be only grid-wide, but in return their resistances improve by the number of ships in range. The current situation where commships generally hang out in a safespot while fleets clash is boring -and the new fleet structure will not have much impact without such a change.
Itoz Gallente Shiva	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:02:00 - [414] Now I didn't read the whole thread so it might have been brought up. But what about mining gang bonuses? Would you have to have a fleet gang?
Forino Ovoli	Posted - 2006.11.20 17:08:00 - [415] Originally by: Severa Crest Players who didnt want to lead should have thought twice before training leadership skills and command ships. What an arrogant response! Those people trained to those skills and ships in a system that explicitly allowed them to lend benefits to gangs without being a leader. Specific example. My young son plays and has chosen to pursue the leadership skills leading towards a command ship. He may have very little inclination or desire to actually lead a gang. However, in his own way - under the old system - he would have offered significant benefits to that gang. Another example, a small Corp assigned various roles to their members to specialize in different leadership skills. That way, when together as a gang, they all gain from each other. Under this new system, one of them must now spend an inordinate amount of time training up the skills he (or she) did not have. Whilst the others will be, in effect, useless waste of skill points when they are operating as a gang.
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2006.11.20 17:42:00 - [416] Originally by: Forino Ovoli Originally by: Severa Crest Players who didnt want to lead should have thought twice before training leadership skills and command ships. What an arrogant response! Those people trained to those skills and ships in a system that explicitly allowed them to lend benefits to gangs without being a leader. Specific example. My young son plays and has chosen to pursue the leadership skills leading towards a command ship. He may have very little inclination or desire to actually lead a gang. However, in his own way - under the old system - he would have offered significant benefits to that gang. Another example, a small Corp assigned various roles to their members to specialize in different leadership skills. That way, when together as a gang, they all gain from each other. Under this new system, one of them must now spend an inordinate amount of time training up the skills he (or she) did not have. Whilst the others will be, in effect, useless waste of skill points when they are operating as a gang. QFT This is now the problem we have in our small corp, which 1 of the 4 goes for the full whack and leaves the rest with pointless skills. Especialy dificult with a multi racial corp of shield and armour tankers for example. As for Severa's comment, do you honestly think the rest of the players should avoid the wonders of the command ship incase they are asked to lead? I guess they can all go fly BS eh? Its probably the only comparable ship to a command ship in game for solo abilities and gang related tasks IMO. I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.
Rumbaar Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.11.21 00:07:00 - [417] Wow late to the party once again. I think the changes for larger fleets can be beneficial and micro management of large battles is a must (node crashes not withstanding, can a node handle 256 BS's in a system?) But the affect to the gang bonuses, or lack there-of, both sucks and blows!! What about a small corp who in a tight group of say 5-6 people when for individual gang specialization. Each one trained for one of the key gang bonuses. Now when they gang they all get the bonuses (is this game about team work, all for a common goal). Now in this new system they are screwed, only one bonus will apply and they've all wasted their gang/team mate bonus training. This change is a nerf for the majority of small corps or small group of gangers. Not happy. ___________________ Custom banner? Click above or EVEmail
Trey Pator	Posted - 2006.11.22 19:47:00 - [418] Why does this have to complicate things so much. Once again the server crashing mobs ruin another feature for the smaller corporations. This effectivily ruins the gang system, It adds needless complexity to small gang operations, and plain just doesnt make sense. Why does a fleet commander not get bonuses from thier officers? What about small gangs? Why is EVE becoming so "alliance" centric? What happened to the concept of a smaller corporation? What happened to the concept of gangs? I know, It has been replaced with the concept of the mob.
Lani'i	Posted - 2006.11.22 22:41:00 - [419] This makes no sense to me... I am just about to hit command ship abilities and now this comes out. I do not have a large corp to offer Fleet bonuses to, the intention of my command ship was to go with my friend (another command ship) share our bonuses and do things in a group of 2, now we cannot share the bonuses (essentially waisted our time training)I think this is completely ruining people who have spent the time to train command ships and their bonuses. It rewards all the PVP guys who only train up to fight, then the people who train gang bonuses are sent to hell. If I had known I would have trained my BS skills rather than waist a 90 day subscription. I will not be purchasing another subscription because of this. I think it is ridiculous and just waists the time of people who train command ships to play with a friend like I have myself. Obviously from reading this forum I am not alone. I do not agree with that, and I will not just purchase more time to "redesign" my character.
Yoshi Takeda Caldari YoshiEmoo	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:30:00 - [420] This System gets way too complex to oversee turn too much towards very large corps or alliances and leaves the small corps and gangs at the shallow end of the pond. Far more shallow than it is already. I think there is a lot to reconsider with this. And to repeat one of my fellow poster what is with the Mining Gang Skill ? Do Mining fleets have to exist next ? Or does it get dropped completely and become a whole waste of time other fellow miners and me put in that training ?

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 .. 15 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.