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Bloggers #41, TomB's new epic, Gangs of New Eden

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 24 post(s)
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:22:00 - [91] Did anyone think "Battlefield 2" when he talked about broadcasts? ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standar Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
Sister Bliss Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:25:00 - [92] Originally by: TomB Originally by: Jet Collins Ok Queston? OK a gang of 2 corp m8 join togeather to do whatever. One memeber has trained a crap load of Seige warfare skills The other member has trained a crap loan of Skirmish warfar skills. In the Current system both gang members get both bonuses. In the new system The leader gets no bonuses and the gang M8 only gets the bonuse of the leader... If this correct? Yup, decide if you want the one with the siege or skirmish to lead. Hang on a second, this also implies that the leader does not get the bonus from the links it is running on its own ship, only the squad member does? This contradicts what the blog says, namely: Commanders can only give gang bonuses and receive their own bonuses* but can not receive bonuses from other commanders or normal members.* If this is correct then what you are saying is that "Any and all fleet/wing/squad commanders do not receive gang/link bonuses under any circumstances" ? I think that's a very poor decision considering the investment ppl have made in these skills (gang links), [not to mention the shield/armor resist ones are are stack nerfed to the point of uselessness]. At least allow the commanders to benefit from each others (and their own) links. All the other changes look good though.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:26:00 - [93] Originally by: Sha'Uri Dark Oh and evenly distributed stats FTW! Quite. I'm staring at my "Charisma 20" with much love atm. I expect the whinefest from the Charisma 3 brigade will be quite entertaining, once they figure things out.
Mr Ninjaface Minmatar Shurekin INC	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:27:00 - [94] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Mr Ninjaface All the wings and squad crap is just useless Speak for yourself. I think the fleet organization it gives you is a big bonus. I've been in too many fleets which have been total chaos due to confusing FC and poor organization. Sure, a good FC can overcome all that, but you don't always have the luxury of a good FC. Having the game enable you to organize scout wings, sniper wings, etc in a clear fashion is a big help, especially with the style of smaller gangs we tend to use in pirate hunts and empire warfare in general. This wont do crap for small gangs you might have 15 people or something so you have got 10 in squad 1, 1 fc 1 wing commander than you got 2 guys in squad 2 who dont get bonues from the guy in squad 1 because they got the short stick. Gang bonuses should affect the entire gang other wise you have to call them limited hierarchical bonuses of crap .
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:28:00 - [95] Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 07/11/2006 15:28:27 Actually... If gangs are getting an overhaul, does that mean we'll see more command and logistics related ships? It'd be nice also, with this concept that combat will be longer and ammo will begin to run out, if blockade runners played more of a part - eg with industrials having to resupply ammo for longer engagements. I see a T2 BS Flagship on the horizon... (though I just fear that people will run around in 5-man gangs, and not bother with fleet command at all) What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Daniel Jackson Caldari Department of Cold Nuclear Fusion	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:28:00 - [96] Originally by: SonOTassadar Did anyone think "Battlefield 2" when he talked about broadcasts? lol i was just about to say that, LOL yes yes it does, o speaken of bf2 BF2142 is also way cool, hehe ___________________
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:29:00 - [97] Originally by: Sister Bliss At least allow the commanders to benefit from each others (and their own) links. All the other changes look good though. Agreed. Commanders should definately benefit from the skills of other commanders. It makes ingame sense (they are working together, aren't they), and makes ooc sense (these people put a lot of effort and sp into their command skills, they need to get at least as much benefit from them as their "subordinates" do). Otherwise the job of a FC (or squad/wing lead) doesn't look very inviting. Lots of skills to train, lots of hassle, reduced personal reward.
Daniel Jackson Caldari Department of Cold Nuclear Fusion	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:30:00 - [98] any way, what about the mining implants, will they still work as usual, when u invite people to the gang ? or do they need to be commanders as wel? ___________________
D'Jannek Amarr StateCorp	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:34:00 - [99] I'm not really a fan of only getting gang bonuses from the commanders. As someone pointed out, in a fleet fight the FC is going to want to be able to lock and hit the same targets as his sniper BS, which may prove very difficult in a command ship. Also command ships aren't very well suited to, say, fast-moving tackler squadrons or whatnot. Then there's the whole "real life" leadership ability with in-game skills. It seems slightly silly to force the FC role on person A just because he's got really good gang skills, while person B is a much better commander. I would much prefer a system where each squad gets bonuses from the highest-skilled member of that squad (like the current gang system), so that it doesn't kill gang skills totally. This can perhaps be combined with giving an increase to gang bonus % for the squadron leader, to preserve the whole "specialising in leadership" thing you're evidently aiming for.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:37:00 - [100] Originally by: Smagd Erm, brother, it's in the blog: You form a regular gang (up to 256 whatever) but zero gang assist skills and modules and apply (nerf!). Well, maybe I'm just dense but the blog isn't totally clear, imho. So we can still have an old-style gang, and that has a max of 50 now? But then you can apparently convert that to a "fleet", even without any skills, and now suddenly the max size is 256? Wtf? Am I seriously misunderstanding something here? Why not use fleets in that case over gangs, and why the arbitrary cap of 50 in gangs? I thought the skills decided the size of the fleet (or squad/wing) you could form in the first place, but apparently they only determine who can act as leader, and you can have a "leaderless" 256-person "fleet" with no skills(?). Originally by: Smagd Then you skill the skills (and I somehow doubt you'll get a rank 8 skill to IV in 7 days with a low primary charisma attribute Why would I have a low charisma? Because some twinks think minimizing your charisma is always a good idea? Well, this is where they are proved a bit wrong. If you created a balanced character, I think that 7 days is in the right ballpark. If not, well, blame yourself.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:40:00 - [101] Originally by: Daniel Jackson any way, what about the mining implants, will they still work as usual, when u invite people to the gang ? or do they need to be commanders as wel? I think it's quite obvious they need to be commanders, since the implants give boost to gang modules, and it has been stated that all gang bonuses (skill, module) are only applied from the commander(s). But again, unless you have a silly-low Charisma, it's trivial to train Leadership V and a few levels of Wing Command, which in turn solves your problems.
Darpz Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:40:00 - [102] sorry don't like it. I like the interface changes, but I don't like the new gang setup for a numbers of reason It nerfs carriers and command ships hard since it forces them to be commanders for the gang bonus's to apply but this doesn't work normally because well carriers sit in safe/pos away from battle and command useually do that same or are support killers since they do not have the ablity to work at the ranges that battles happen. Its overly complex- yes its cool to read about but its just to complex. Running a fleet is complex enough without having to worry about inviting people into that mess. I can see TS now Person 1: X for gang FC: would a squadcommander invite him. SC1: sorry i'm full SC2: Sorry I'm full also SC4: Also Full SC5: yup same FC: SC3? SCI: he must be afk FC: ok will someone make a new squad? .... FC: so no else can make a squad? .... Person 1: nm i'm going ot play wow

TomB	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:41:00 - [103] Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon Question for TomB: Say me and 3 mates want to go into enemy space and... mine for scrap metal (yaarrr). We gang up like we used to, go in, and let the PEW PEW start. Same as before. But.... If we want gang bonuses, we need to designate a Fleet Commander, Wing Commander and Squadron Commander? Or, can I just designate Friend #3 as a Squadron Commander, with all of us in his squadron, leave Wing and Fleet Commander spots empty, and have the squadron commander give us gang bonuses? This could also be applied to mining: Have an SC, no FC or WC, and have the SC give the "Covetor Army" the mining foreman bonus? So I guess my first question is "can we create gangs with holes in upper management, but still have a squad commander boost our skills?" Also, for those people who mine most of the time, most of their SP are in industrial skills. If a gang needs an FC to get a bonus, isn't that nerfing most mining corps? You only need 2 people to get gang bonuses to work, Squadron Commander with level 1 Leadership and another member in that Squadron. The holes in the upper management doesn't inactivate your Squadron. TomB Lead Designer EVE Online .

Sir Juri Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:42:00 - [104] The whole thing seems to be to complicated. And with future additions to what is allready coming... Well doesn't it appear to be more of a headache then a great feature? im trying to imagine a fleet battle small or big with this system with all the action going on with having an FC/wing/squad and... **** need to make a new sig...

TomB	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:47:00 - [105] Originally by: Sister Bliss Originally by: TomB Originally by: Jet Collins Ok Queston? OK a gang of 2 corp m8 join togeather to do whatever. One memeber has trained a crap load of Seige warfare skills The other member has trained a crap loan of Skirmish warfar skills. In the Current system both gang members get both bonuses. In the new system The leader gets no bonuses and the gang M8 only gets the bonuse of the leader... If this correct? Yup, decide if you want the one with the siege or skirmish to lead. Hang on a second, this also implies that the leader does not get the bonus from the links it is running on its own ship, only the squad member does? This contradicts what the blog says, namely: Commanders can only give gang bonuses and receive their own bonuses* but can not receive bonuses from other commanders or normal members.* If this is correct then what you are saying is that "Any and all fleet/wing/squad commanders do not receive gang/link bonuses under any circumstances" ? I think that's a very poor decision considering the investment ppl have made in these skills (gang links), [not to mention the shield/armor resist ones are are stack nerfed to the point of uselessness]. At least allow the commanders to benefit from each others (and their own) links. All the other changes look good though. Commanders can give bonuses, commanders receive the bonuses they give. They do not get bonuses from other commanders, i.e. Squad Commander does not receive bonuses from the Wing or Fleet Commander. The ONLY reason for this is a technical issue, it's on our list for fixes. This is how it is currently on the Test Server (SiSi). TomB Lead Designer EVE Online .

Mr Ninjaface Minmatar Shurekin INC	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:48:00 - [106] TomB you added all the board cast stuff etc (i need cap armor/shield) The current targeting system makes cap transfers sheild transfers hard during battle if you have say a cap transfer on your apoc but you also have 7 turrets. You then have to lock you friend and cap transfer him then in the heat of the battle remember not to start shooting the crap out of him because hes locked. Can we have a sperate locking system for gang mates on that you cant activate hostile modules on unless you specify that you want to do so or something.

TomB	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:49:00 - [107] Originally by: Mr Ninjaface Gang bonuses should affect the entire gang other wise you have to call them limited hierarchical bonuses of crap . No. TomB Lead Designer EVE Online .

Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:50:00 - [108] Originally by: Darpz sorry don't like it. I like the interface changes, but I don't like the new gang setup for a numbers of reason It nerfs carriers and command ships hard since it forces them to be commanders for the gang bonus's to apply but this doesn't work normally because well carriers sit in safe/pos away from battle and command useually do that same or are support killers since they do not have the ablity to work at the ranges that battles happen. That's a valid complaint. I pretyt much like the new system because it fits the style of battles that we have -- but that's mostly smaller-scale Empire warfare and antipirate fights, and small and medium range. For 0.0. fleet/sniper warfare, I guess it's a valid complaint that there are atm no suitable "command ships" for fleet commanders. Of course, you could try having the FC in whatever ship he/she wants, and having the wing commanders in command ships. You don't need to have the FC give all the bonuses for everyone, you can share out that stuff -- which is also a good idea because not flying a command ship means the FC isn't an automatic primary But yeah, I can see some of the problems. I have zero-to-no experience with long-range 0.0 fleet warfare, we do most of our fighting in lowsec Empire. If this change goes through as planned, there is clearly a need for a fleet command ship (one that has enough targeting range for fleet ops, at least, and can run command modules). Of course, that would become an automatic primary, but... win some, lose some
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:52:00 - [109] Originally by: TomB Commanders can give bonuses, commanders receive the bonuses they give. They do not get bonuses from other commanders, i.e. Squad Commander does not receive bonuses from the Wing or Fleet Commander. The ONLY reason for this is a technical issue, it's on our list for fixes. This is how it is currently on the Test Server (SiSi). Ah. Cool. I was wondering why that "commanders get no benefit from each other" thing was there, this clears that point up.
Adam C 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:52:00 - [110] best thing to come out of kali I im really dreading alot of the other stuff though going by the test server
LC Sulla BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:52:00 - [111] Any chance of a cruiser (force recon maybe) capable of housing a gang link module. Will be needed for fast moving recon squads.

TomB	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:53:00 - [112] Originally by: Darpz sorry don't like it. I like the interface changes, but I don't like the new gang setup for a numbers of reason It nerfs carriers and command ships hard since it forces them to be commanders for the gang bonus's to apply but this doesn't work normally because well carriers sit in safe/pos away from battle and command useually do that same or are support killers since they do not have the ablity to work at the ranges that battles happen. Its overly complex- yes its cool to read about but its just to complex. Running a fleet is complex enough without having to worry about inviting people into that mess. I can see TS now Person 1: X for gang FC: would a squadcommander invite him. SC1: sorry i'm full SC2: Sorry I'm full also SC4: Also Full SC5: yup same FC: SC3? SCI: he must be afk FC: ok will someone make a new squad? .... FC: so no else can make a squad? .... Person 1: nm i'm going ot play wow FC: hey wait I can invite anyone into any squad... WC1: oh yeah I can invite anyone to any squad in my wing! FC: dude I can even create a new squad and move some dude from some other squad to a commander position of it WC2: I mean that's so cool Gang Creator: hey I can do everything that the fleet commander can do, move people around and invite TomB Lead Designer EVE Online .

Mongo Smith Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:54:00 - [113] Thanks for the prompt responses TomB. Not sure if its been mentioned before or not, one feature that would be useful would be the ability to rename each wing/fleet/squadron to aid in the organisation.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:55:00 - [114] Originally by: Mr Ninjaface TomB you added all the board cast stuff etc (i need cap armor/shield) The current targeting system makes cap transfers sheild transfers hard during battle if you have say a cap transfer on your apoc but you also have 7 turrets. You then have to lock you friend and cap transfer him then in the heat of the battle remember not to start shooting the crap out of him because hes locked. Can we have a sperate locking system for gang mates on that you cant activate hostile modules on unless you specify that you want to do so or something. Agreed. How about just a blanket much-faster locktime on your squadron mates, for instance? We all agree that Logistics still needs some help in order for it to become useful in fleets, and one of the major gripes is the slow locktime on gangmates. If being in the same squadron gave a locktime bonus on each other, that imho would help logistics nicely.
Adam C 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:55:00 - [115] and why no videos and such saving it for the fanfest ? you guys really know howto starve our evelust ^^
EvilNate Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:58:00 - [116] zomg!! This stuff is really so fracking cool. I have a question about the new gang system that doesn't relate to pvp at all. Currently in pretty much any MMORPG, when a player does a mission/quest/whatever, he is able to share that mission/quest/whatever with another player. That player can the recieve a split of the LP and standings gains too. Any chance we will see this implemented any time in the next 2837492874 years? Nate
Sir Juri Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:58:00 - [117] Originally by: TomB Originally by: Darpz sorry don't like it. I like the interface changes, but I don't like the new gang setup for a numbers of reason It nerfs carriers and command ships hard since it forces them to be commanders for the gang bonus's to apply but this doesn't work normally because well carriers sit in safe/pos away from battle and command useually do that same or are support killers since they do not have the ablity to work at the ranges that battles happen. Its overly complex- yes its cool to read about but its just to complex. Running a fleet is complex enough without having to worry about inviting people into that mess. I can see TS now Person 1: X for gang FC: would a squadcommander invite him. SC1: sorry i'm full SC2: Sorry I'm full also SC4: Also Full SC5: yup same FC: SC3? SCI: he must be afk FC: ok will someone make a new squad? .... FC: so no else can make a squad? .... Person 1: nm i'm going ot play wow FC: hey wait I can invite anyone into any squad... WC1: oh yeah I can invite anyone to any squad in my wing! FC: dude I can even create a new squad and move some dude from some other squad to a commander position of it WC2: I mean that's so cool Gang Creator: hey I can do everything that the fleet commander can do, move people around and invite So an FC can create a squad, move someone into it to be commander, that does not have the skills in the first place to create a squad? so one only needs one FC ever to create a fleet? same for bonuses? **** need to make a new sig...
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:59:00 - [118] Originally by: Mongo Smith Thanks for the prompt responses TomB. Not sure if its been mentioned before or not, one feature that would be useful would be the ability to rename each wing/fleet/squadron to aid in the organisation. Seconded on both counts. Thanks for the feedback TomB, and yes, being able to give names to squadrons/wings would be very nice and would reduce the confusion. "Snipers" is a lot less confusion-inducing than "Squadron 2"
Mr Ninjaface Minmatar Shurekin INC	Posted - 2006.11.07 16:00:00 - [119] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Mr Ninjaface TomB you added all the board cast stuff etc (i need cap armor/shield) The current targeting system makes cap transfers sheild transfers hard during battle if you have say a cap transfer on your apoc but you also have 7 turrets. You then have to lock you friend and cap transfer him then in the heat of the battle remember not to start shooting the crap out of him because hes locked. Can we have a sperate locking system for gang mates on that you cant activate hostile modules on unless you specify that you want to do so or something. Agreed. How about just a blanket much-faster locktime on your squadron mates, for instance? We all agree that Logistics still needs some help in order for it to become useful in fleets, and one of the major gripes is the slow locktime on gangmates. If being in the same squadron gave a locktime bonus on each other, that imho would help logistics nicely. hardly worried about lock time but for example. you ask for cap your gang mate locks you and starts cap transfers while fighting some other guy. FC calls a new target say a BC. The guy locks it and activates his guns (f1-7 (8 is cap transfer)) But then before he gets his guns off guy in squad 2 in his maelstrom gets a wreaking hit from 3 of his guns and the BC insta pops. Your guns then cycle to the guy your cap transfering because suddenly as you activated your weapons your target was gone.
Paddlefoot Aeon Neogen Industries Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.11.07 16:00:00 - [120] Yeah TomB... thanks for the quick response. Naming each squad (Blue, Red, Green, etc...) might help when issuing orders on a larger scale operation.

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