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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Elve Sorrow
Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.08 18:04:00 -
[331]
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 08/11/2006 18:04:49 Odd question, maybe, but:
Quote: Amarr Titan Skill Bonuses: 10% reduction in Capital Energy Turret capacitor use per level 5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret damage per level 7.5% bonus to gang membersĘ capacitor recharge rate per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Capital Jump Bridge Array 99% reduction in CPU need for Judgment 99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Is that bonus affected by these changes? Or does it remain for the entire gang, as the description says.
It's great being Amarr, aint it?
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Mr Ninjaface
Minmatar Shurekin INC
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Posted - 2006.11.08 18:08:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 08/11/2006 18:04:49 Odd question, maybe, but:
Quote: Amarr Titan Skill Bonuses: 10% reduction in Capital Energy Turret capacitor use per level 5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret damage per level 7.5% bonus to gang membersĘ capacitor recharge rate per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Capital Jump Bridge Array 99% reduction in CPU need for Judgment 99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Is that bonus affected by these changes? Or does it remain for the entire gang, as the description says.
well gang mods are said to effect the entire gang but now they are limited hierarchical bonus of crap, you can expect the same for the titian
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Ackuula
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Posted - 2006.11.08 18:49:00 -
[333]
Multiple people have brought up the logistics/friendly fire issue. I only managed to read through 7 of the many pages available.
My suggestion would be to treat friendlies like can theft. A quick simple are you sure box would be simple enough. That or make it impossible to fire on a gang member, unless some sort of dual or training hostility is activated.
My other suggestion would be that all friendly ships have Friend or Foe transponders, so in other words, insta locks. It's no fun trying to wade through my drones and friendly's signature and my sensor bonuses which can take some time to get a lock in order to conduct repairs and the such.
Speaking of repairs are we ever going to see remote hull repair fittings/drones?
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.11.08 18:50:00 -
[334]
This is very cool, I especially dig the broadcast function, although I am still not convinced that remote systems will be fast enough to really have an impact in fleet combat...
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SengH
Black Omega Security The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.08 19:17:00 -
[335]
Heres the main problem... for the fleet commander to convey his bonuses to the entire 256 people you need 1 Fleet Commander with Fleet Command 5 5 Wing Commanders with Wing Command 5 25 Squad Commanders with Leadership 5
to ALL BE IN THE SAME SYSTEM UNDOCKED AT THE SAME TIME otherwise you lose the bonus down that chain. ie. If the wing commander docks or gets podded out, everyone down the chain loses the bonus.
This system just adds simple bureaucracy to gang skills, which is absurd. For a rank 14 skill it should apply to everyone below you regardless of whether the wing commanders have the requisite skills. ---------------------------------------- Back for a month cus Awu5 finished..... |
Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2006.11.08 19:33:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Vala Draaken
Originally by: TomB ... but as I said the skeleton allows us to improve the gang mechanic easily so you will see it in future updates.
Everyone, please try to remember that these changes are only a temporary stage between Kali patches, as TomB said.
Hope that calms some of you down a little,
Vala D.
Temporary my shiny white Caldari butt; half the things in this game are "temporary" and have been that way since the game launched. Changes like this are permanent, CCP will drop further changes so that they can go fix something else. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
Caleece Dackson
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Posted - 2006.11.08 20:02:00 -
[337]
Originally by: SengH Heres the main problem... for the fleet commander to convey his bonuses to the entire 256 people you need 1 Fleet Commander with Fleet Command 5 5 Wing Commanders with Wing Command 5 25 Squad Commanders with Leadership 5
to ALL BE IN THE SAME SYSTEM UNDOCKED AT THE SAME TIME otherwise you lose the bonus down that chain. ie. If the wing commander docks or gets podded out, everyone down the chain loses the bonus.
This system just adds simple bureaucracy to gang skills, which is absurd. For a rank 14 skill it should apply to everyone below you regardless of whether the wing commanders have the requisite skills.
Yes this is somewhat true.. but you would hope that your WC's and SC's would have leadership skills of their own wich would take over in case the FC is killed.. Also if your WC is killed you'd hope your SC has at least one or more skills to share with their fighter group. Maybe not nessisarily a level V skill but at least train a couple hours to level 3 as a backup.
The only part I'm unclear on. say you have a full fleet.. FC on down to 5 WC's and a full complement of SC's if say Wing commander "1" is killed.. are all the SC's under THAT paticular WC gonna loose their bonuses from the FC? Same goes if your SC gets popped.. do you loose bonuses from the top? (pretty much the same question but I figured I'd ask it twice) That would make WC's a more viable target. Who needs to cut off the head when you can cut out the heart.
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SengH
Black Omega Security The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.08 20:04:00 -
[338]
from current testing the answer is yes.. however for squad leaders the leadership skill has problem sticking. ---------------------------------------- Back for a month cus Awu5 finished..... |
Caleece Dackson
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Posted - 2006.11.08 20:08:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Caleece Dackson Insert crap here
I really need to delete that alt :P
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CamelKnight III
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.08 22:01:00 -
[340]
TomB, can you please direct me to the person capable of moving my 2.78m skillpoints from Leadership to other skills?
I've trained Leadership skills to assist my fighting brothers and sisters when I'm in a gang. I, however, have no intention of leading one. I'm not the leading type nor do I wish to be one. With this new (uncommunicated, hardly thought-over) change, you are FORCING me to do something I don't want to do, never wanted to do and never will want to do. And here I was thinking I could finally play a game the way I wanted it, with all the freedom to choose my own path and destiny.
Should this change go through then I expect CCP to move the skillpoints from ppl who no longer wish them to be in Leadership, to other skillarea's. Besides the obvious and earlier pointed out flaws in your new system, this is not something I wished to train for if it's going this way and I expect a proper solution from your part.
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Kylania
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.08 22:18:00 -
[341]
Originally by: CamelKnight III
I've trained Leadership skills to assist my fighting brothers and sisters when I'm in a gang.
Should this change go through then I expect CCP to move the skillpoints from ppl who no longer wish them to be in Leadership, to other skillarea's.
With the new system assiting your fighting bothers and sisters is exactly what you can do as Squadron Commander. You don't even have to "lead" since you can have your leader take the Wing Commander slot above you.
CCP won't move skillpoints because of this, Leadership is still used for other things not just this and your skills still function, you just need to learn them in the new way.
It's up to you to adapt. As others have said, EVE always was and always will be about change. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap | CCG Card Lookup |
Parallax Error
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.08 22:48:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Kylania
Originally by: CamelKnight III
I've trained Leadership skills to assist my fighting brothers and sisters when I'm in a gang.
Should this change go through then I expect CCP to move the skillpoints from ppl who no longer wish them to be in Leadership, to other skillarea's.
With the new system assiting your fighting bothers and sisters is exactly what you can do as Squadron Commander. You don't even have to "lead" since you can have your leader take the Wing Commander slot above you.
CCP won't move skillpoints because of this, Leadership is still used for other things not just this and your skills still function, you just need to learn them in the new way.
It's up to you to adapt. As others have said, EVE always was and always will be about change.
Not to the point where you utterly change the function of a highly specialised and high skill point dependent path. This is moving the goalposts to the same extreme as the change about 6 months in from Gunnery skills being a willpower primary to a perception primary.
It is fundamentally changing the whole *gang assist* (please note the emphasis here) line of skills into a role far above and beyond anything that could be expected when these modules were initially released.
To use these gang assist modules now, we now to assume command at a reasonable level in ships that are either ill equipped to be on the front lines of decent sized engagements or are far to easy to pick out and kill.
I can understand why the system needed changing in so far as combating lag, but this needs to be an assignable role from the highest ranking officer in the fleet. That way you can limit the number of people being checked for gang skills without forcing people to take command in ill designed ships and based on the fact they were training an assistance module.
And no, being a Squadron Commander and affecting only 10 people is not good enough for the investment put in in many cases.
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evistin
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.09 00:32:00 -
[343]
Edited by: evistin on 09/11/2006 00:35:19 The new system seems pretty good, but it feels more like an artificial cap versus actually improvements.
Certainly breaking large groups into smaller chunks is good for management, but removing gang bonus I think was a bad move. I understand this was to encourage swapping to Fleets versus gangs, but you now force those who are able to lead to learn more skills and does that don't to be forced into a leadership role.
You also have 1 way broadcasting it seems. Where the commander and certain players can announce to the whole fleet the situation, but it seems to lack a Commander-only Channel of communication. Certain information is not needed by the solider on the field but needs to be pass to the commander structure.
Your feature sets focus heavily on reducing current problems of fleet engagement, and that's a big +, but however in its creation it has created a much large administrative overhead in the preparation and maintenance of these fleets. I have seen no feature that reduces the overhead of the new features you are installing. -----------
Management and Leadership |
Cinnander
Celestial Fleet
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:05:00 -
[344]
Edited by: Cinnander on 09/11/2006 02:15:09 Edited by: Cinnander on 09/11/2006 02:13:41 Edited for spelling. I'm really not liking some of this. It's all good, but for me the game breaker is the fact that ONLY those in leadership positions can give out bonii.
There hasn't been a dev reply on this [properly] yet, so I'd like to ask.
My position is such that I like to do "logistics" stuff - I like to sit there quietly (e.g. among the BS group in a fleet) and dish out bonii to my fellows, or provide support in other ways (point defence, repper, or whatever). So I've trained like 4 months of time into the Command ships (BC5, Information Warfare 5, IW Spec 4, Cyber 5, Leadership 5), and I'm pretty good with the modules (properly good once I get the implant in a couple of weeks).
HOWEVER I'm an atrocious [fleet] commander - I probably couldn't lead a 5 ceptor gang successfully vs a noobship. So basically, I'm now more use to the gang in an Oneiros than in an Eos, unless I totally forsake the Eos' specialisation and use it as a gunship :|
Also what about carriers - being as they can assign fighters to smaller faster ships they don't have any reason to come to the front lines, however now that they HAVE to so that they can successfully apply gang bonii. Also, the carrier pilots have to be in leadership positions within the fleet to apply the bonii. They seemed to have got kicked while they were down, a little, as they currently have no 'onboard' offensive abilities unless they fit smartbombs, essentially making them a drifting billion ISK target if you want to get any leadership bonii from them :|
PLEASE I urge you to reconsider the way this works. I understand that for now there are technical restrictions, but once those are fixed this needs to be changed. Please at the very least allow member<->member bonuses across a squadron, or even better across a wing (including applying them to leaders thereof).
Fix this, and the new system will be pretty **** good! (256 gang limit ftw)
I know, I said 'bonii'. |
Istaklain
TribalWar Inc EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:19:00 -
[345]
Yay for more nerfs for the sake of weak hardware and poor coding. Also thanks for raising the price for my character.
Gotta say I'm surprised this got nerfed before bookmarks though.
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War Bear
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:25:00 -
[346]
One request if it hasn't already been mentioned. For any leadership position (fleet command, squadron etc) would it be possible to have a "show fleet\squad\etc" button so a leader can quickly see what ships he has in his fleet?
For instance:
right click fleet show composition up pops a small window saying:
8 Battleships 5 Hacs 2 Command 5 Cruisers
There's always the invariable "whats everyone in" question over teamspeak\ventrillo. You might not know who has what load out perhaps but you can at least say "christ we're out gunned, time to switch up tactics".
No matter where you go, there you are. |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:38:00 -
[347]
Edited by: James Duar on 09/11/2006 02:42:50 What's needed here is:
support skills are completely separate roles at every level.
leaders exist solely for calling targets and using warp gang to get around
none of this requires any new skills to use.
If this is done, then the supporters, while needing more of them, aren't shoehorned into some nominal leadership position and can safely focus on not getting caught in their SS's away from the main battle (which will be tougher thanks to new scanning). We don't add new skills for leadership or support, because support have trained extensively already and leading a gang, as a skill you have to have IRL, is not something which should thus have to be trained in game as well.
This would fix 90% of the complaint against this sytem.
EDIT: ALL mining related skills and bonuses should be changed back to work for gangs. --- Recently returned from vacation on a sunny planet in 0.0. Guess which one! |
Kelldrin
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:50:00 -
[348]
I'm thinking that Formations, when implemented, will fix the concern with regards to FC's CBC survivability. Otherwise, what exactly would a formation do, if not protect (in some way) weaker/more vulnerable ships?
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Anti Protagonist
Gallente Archron Dusyfe Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.09 03:28:00 -
[349]
Edited by: Anti Protagonist on 09/11/2006 03:28:03
Originally by: Istaklain Gotta say I'm surprised this got nerfed before bookmarks though.
Bookmarks are very nerfed. There just hasn't been a dev blog on it.
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Maverick McDougel
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.09 03:40:00 -
[350]
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Apertotes will pilots be able to interact with gang mates that are on another squad? for example, if i am flying a logistic ship on squad #17, and a mate on squad #23 needs some help, will i be able to help him or will he die in a horrible way?
at least, if i understood right, i wont be able to see his HP, so i will only be able to help if he sends a broadcast petition. am i correct?
You might see:
[Broadcast Window] A Mate > Need Armor Repair!
You clickit You get option "Lock Target" You select it You activate your remote repairers He still dies I loot him
omg this is the funniest thing i have read today. support BattleClinic buy gtc's from BattleClinic |
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Garia666
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.09 07:09:00 -
[351]
Edited by: Garia666 on 09/11/2006 07:16:05
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Garia666
I thinks its very sad that DEVs make such changes without notifying before hand. Yeah put some more skillz in.. More skilz more Moneh ..
Force people to be something they dont want to be but have to do because they have the skilz and equipment.
You just push it to your members there troath ..
What do you think this is, other than advance notification?
Or did you mean that the players should get to decide how everything works? It's not a democracy.
And it's "skills". No idea what "there troath" is, but it sounds nasty.
true but if they told us which way they where going in the first place on this subject i wouldnt have trained for it. to mcuh time lost.. to much money spend on something you dont have any joy from.
->My Vids<- |
eveplayer11
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Posted - 2006.11.09 08:50:00 -
[352]
<3 CCP
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Mindlles
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.11.09 09:36:00 -
[353]
Yeah awsome...
NOt
I see CCP are more and more intrested to assit guys that cant listen to command, So now they will even get alittle red button show how to look?.. And for that we need new skills.
Abit stupid in my opion. Sure enough that u want to change stuff.
But first try the game to work proprely. **** played this game almost since realse, and wasted most off my time shooting ppl. And u forget the most importen, get the servers to work proprely. Before u make it even more acceptble for all the numbnuts out there. And blobs.. So yeah for the no thinking players, yay for the alliance blobs, No for good pvp..
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Sanzuro
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Posted - 2006.11.09 10:54:00 -
[354]
IMO this makes impossible a use of gang warfare modules. so those changes are awfull... like fifth leg to dog
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Rafein
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.09 11:17:00 -
[355]
Edited by: Rafein on 09/11/2006 11:18:46
Originally by: Sanzuro IMO this makes impossible a use of gang warfare modules. so those changes are awfull... like fifth leg to dog
Nah, you can use them, just have to be squad commander/wing commander/fleet commander.
All the change does it change the skills under the leadership tab to skills that give bonuses to leading. Much like training skills under the gunnery tab gives bonuses to using guns, which I'm sure your probably going to come on and say that doesn't make sense either.
As of now, they should remove the leadership tab, or simply rename it to the OMGFREEBONSES tab, cause that is simply what people use it for.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.09 11:24:00 -
[356]
warfare links and their training skills should have recieved their own category day one.. called.. oh.. LOGISTICS or something (with the current logistics skill renamed to Logistics Ships perhaps) that would have nipped this rambling mess in the bud.
Warfare Links are Logistics, Not Leadership! same as artillary spotters and loader are not commanders of an army, and commanders dont run the mess hall or fix the trucks.
and please, PLEASE dont call it a temporary measure. how many other "temporary measures" are still live, right now? the Only improvment i see in this system is the change of how much space gang info takes up, and changes in its update. thats it. and those "saving" are buried under a huge extra panel of overview and information flood.
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Pah Triac
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2006.11.09 11:26:00 -
[357]
i just see that there will be 31 Fleet command ships active iff the whole of the fleet likes to have the full bonus applied with a maximum of 3x3 maxxed out bonuses and 3 bonusses on the boss that are not maxxed out with ship/mindlink bonus Your local friendly Ammatar
*** People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true. *** |
Rafein
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.09 11:34:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Pah Triac i just see that there will be 31 Fleet command ships active iff the whole of the fleet likes to have the full bonus applied with a maximum of 3x3 maxxed out bonuses and 3 bonusses on the boss that are not maxxed out with ship/mindlink bonus
Correct, but at the squadron stage, there you really only give bonuses to 10 people, so it's kinda pointless to bring a Command ship at the squadron level. I can see tier 2 BC's used here, just for one extra leadership module. Which still gives you 7 gang modules, out of a possible 15. Which is fine. Like fittings, there shoud be choices, not entire gangs getitng every bonus
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Apertotes
Nuevos Horizontes O X I D E
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Posted - 2006.11.09 12:13:00 -
[359]
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Mr Ninjaface TomB you added all the board cast stuff etc (i need cap armor/shield) The current targeting system makes cap transfers sheild transfers hard during battle if you have say a cap transfer on your apoc but you also have 7 turrets. You then have to lock you friend and cap transfer him then in the heat of the battle remember not to start shooting the crap out of him because hes locked. Can we have a sperate locking system for gang mates on that you cant activate hostile modules on unless you specify that you want to do so or something.
We want logistic modules to be easier in use, there are a couple of ideas:
- Targeting gang members requires 0 seconds. - Logistic modules ain't target modules, they get a curser when left-clicked and instantly activated when a target has been selected. - Something else
But can't promise anything for Kali.
i know it's been proposed before on the suggestions forum, but don't know if it arrived to your ears (or any significant ear...), but why don't you use the gang chat channel as an interactive tool, so that we can use any module on any gang mate just by selecting him on the gang chat window?
this way, logistic ships would get rid of 2 limitations:
- targetting delay - maximum number of friendly targets
that would hopely make logistic ships more useful.
ps: yeah, i know that inside the mind of many of you has turned on a bright yellow light. with this feature, any FC could directly apply 8 rounds of EMP ammo onto any disobedient, lazy or suspect of spying gang member, causing an instant catharsis on the unfortunate soldier. DISCIPLINE, THAT'S WHAT'S NEEDED ON GANGS!!!!!!
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grizouh
Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.09 18:26:00 -
[360]
for the nerf bat of gangassist skills i want a free respecc
it is not only that i spent a huge time for training what i already have and which does not support myself at all - i also now have to waste even more time that the skills i trained so long for apply at all and will still have no benefit from it for myself.
btw even if some of us supporters decide to act as a fleet commander: whom to choose if there are more than one type of gangassist available? one will be cut down to wingsize for sure.
tomb, if you think this makes the leadership skills more attractive you are wrong, completely wrong. this is the first time i really do regret to ever have learned these skills...
concerning the issue lag cose of calculations which is the highest skill (btw this prolly regards more the basic passive leadership skills as i rarely see 2 commandships with the same modules in a fleet): what shamis said, define it per role who is in charge for the boni
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