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DNightmare
Caldari
Psyballz
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Posted - 2006.12.17 14:24:00 -
[331]
 Originally by: Baxslash
So, here is my challenge, I want any Developer to PROVE with out question, that not only can they find any of these new exploration complexs, BUT!!!, to do it within 30 mins, and do it with the way they've set up the scanning probes as they are, AND!!!, absolutely NO CHEATING!!!
but, guess what, no GM, or, Dev. will even dare to take this challenge, and the reason, is because, they know, that, its impossible.
Sorry for destroying your dream off proving a DEV to be wrong, but I've found several Sites/Complexes under 30minutes so far. (And I'm no cheating DEV/GM :D)
00:00 Entered system, dropped Multi
00:15 Start Analyze
04:15 Result! Type: X
08:15 Spammed the whole system with Quests
12:15 No Result on Quests
16:15 ChaChing! 0.4AU away from it.
17:00 Quests detroyed that were in range so Sift dropped and Analyzing started.
21:00 Still 1000km away, gonna warp to it and use a new Sift from there.
22:00 New Sift is analyzing
26:00 ChaChing! 0km, warping to & having fun :)
I didn't use "1 Try 1 Hit" so i could calc a more realistic (but still lucky) try. But it works and it works quite often in that way, although, when you find things this fast, normally they aren't that good in terms or reward (but there are some that are kinda nice).
Skills:
Covert-Ops: IV
Signal Acq: III (IV tomorrow *yay*)
Astro.Pinp: III
Astro.Tria: III
btw: Pinpoiting/Triangulation also have a decent role in this, cause only making your analyze process faster can give you quite in-accurate results with those 2 Skills at 0. (My Quests for example have 286 str. with a max of 1.4 Deviation if i remeber right, so with maxed skills, you should be able to find EVERY target under 1AU and don't have to carry around pursuits anymore)
Cheers
DNightmare
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Commander Spectre
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Posted - 2006.12.17 18:13:00 -
[332]
Well they could have made this whole process work better if the multispec could give you a warp point somewhere in the general area. I Have picked up a radar sig and launched a radar quest probe at every planet and scanned from each 6 or 8 times and not gotten anything. So now what? This costs me much more than it's worth in probes.
Exploration sucks so far.
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Jackson Murphy
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Posted - 2006.12.17 19:32:00 -
[333]
Oh man i love Exploration right as it is.
You can find sites with 500 millor more in it just when you have the pation to scan. For and it drives everybody away who thought he can make easy money from it.
So you find it boring to scan with mulitple probes and you want it easy ? Ncie go back to your mind grinder Mission and let the exploration to the real Explorar
mfg
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Veto1024
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Posted - 2006.12.17 19:45:00 -
[334]
Edited by: Veto1024 on 17/12/2006 20:01:57
Edited by: Veto1024 on 17/12/2006 19:51:19
Edited by: Veto1024 on 17/12/2006 19:45:19
Yah, considering i've heard people finding ABC ore spawns in high-sec, I don't think this exploration deal was meant to be easy.
Then again, as I wrote this reply, I found another one haha.
Word of advice guys, you know how for a lot of systems, the planets just don't orbit in such a way that you can spam 4AU's and pickup all the area surrounding every planet? Well, word of advice: Setup an initial spam of 4AU's and if you get nothing (even though you've gotten results with multispec) when all your probes expire, re-setup on planets you couldnt get due to range limitations. The one i just found I found by making a bookmark during warp which put me in a position to drop a probe in an area that allowed me to put a planet in range but out of the range of hte other probes. Guess where hte deadspace was? So you can either do 2 sets of scans or screw around with warping and trying to make accurate bookmarks in mid warp (not very easy for me).
By the way, has anyone stumbled upon these one deadspaces where its like.. you warp into a place with an acceleration gate 60km out and a few npcs? Seems kinda strange because i keep running into this type... anyone gone to the gate? (I'm going to get a ship to go right now). It reads "Provisional Serpentis Outpost".... exploration site? no?
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Atreides Horza
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Posted - 2006.12.18 01:01:00 -
[335]
Can someone please confirm whether or not scanning probes can be picked up on the directional scanner as an indication that someone is looking for you? Or what?
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Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.18 01:17:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Atreides Horza
Can someone please confirm whether or not scanning probes can be picked up on the directional scanner as an indication that someone is looking for you? Or what?
Yes you can see them on the directional scanner (if you turned off filter by overview settings).
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.18 12:00:00 -
[337]
Update: The original posts are now updated with the correct range formula as discovered by Daron.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
storm2k5
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Posted - 2006.12.18 16:17:00 -
[338]
Originally by: DNightmare
Originally by: Baxslash
So, here is my challenge, I want any Developer to PROVE with out question, that not only can they find any of these new exploration complexs, BUT!!!, to do it within 30 mins, and do it with the way they've set up the scanning probes as they are, AND!!!, absolutely NO CHEATING!!!
but, guess what, no GM, or, Dev. will even dare to take this challenge, and the reason, is because, they know, that, its impossible.
Sorry for destroying your dream off proving a DEV to be wrong, but I've found several Sites/Complexes under 30minutes so far. (And I'm no cheating DEV/GM :D)
00:00 Entered system, dropped Multi
00:15 Start Analyze
04:15 Result! Type: X
08:15 Spammed the whole system with Quests
12:15 No Result on Quests
16:15 ChaChing! 0.4AU away from it.
17:00 Quests detroyed that were in range so Sift dropped and Analyzing started.
21:00 Still 1000km away, gonna warp to it and use a new Sift from there.
22:00 New Sift is analyzing
26:00 ChaChing! 0km, warping to & having fun :)
I didn't use "1 Try 1 Hit" so i could calc a more realistic (but still lucky) try. But it works and it works quite often in that way, although, when you find things this fast, normally they aren't that good in terms or reward (but there are some that are kinda nice).
Skills:
Covert-Ops: IV
Signal Acq: III (IV tomorrow *yay*)
Astro.Pinp: III
Astro.Tria: III
btw: Pinpoiting/Triangulation also have a decent role in this, cause only making your analyze process faster can give you quite in-accurate results with those 2 Skills at 0. (My Quests for example have 286 str. with a max of 1.4 Deviation if i remeber right, so with maxed skills, you should be able to find EVERY target under 1AU and don't have to carry around pursuits anymore)
Cheers
DNightmare
I'd say it's just a matter of luck. It took me 3 days to get a first result with Quest probes from a "Unknown" signature. The first 2 days I scanned like 20 times each without luck, on my 2nd try on the 3rd day I was lucky and found the sig. Then, it took my only 10 minutes and one comb/ one sift probe to pin it down to 0km.
Very nice deadspace complex btw, my Megathron died in the 2nd stage ;)
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Estan Drake
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2006.12.19 08:26:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Baxslash
ok, this is the most stupidest thing I've ever done. The GM/Dev. who believed and created this type of scanning is unbeliebably dense, or, has his/her breain in backwards, never in my life have I used anything so obnoxiously hard to understand to use, let alone so absolutely useless in how the scans are revealed, IF!!!, and, I repeat, if the probes of real life were used ingame, then, the probes would be easy to use for ALL ppl, includeing new player.
NOW!!!, here is how probes should work.
1:) the use of a Multispectral probe, with its extended range of 999 au would reveal all types in the system plus, a general location ofr all these possible targets
2:( Then comes the second probe, a probe thats after 1 paticular frequency type, which has a more varied scan range, 5-10 au, u'd warp close to said possible target by the way of the multi probe targeting, then use the second probe to get within .5-.1 au of the target u want
3:) Comes the finest probe, which brings u right in on ur target.
How can u not use this type of way of the use of probes, but, no, instead, what the Devs and GMs do, they make the use of probes so extremely difficult, that, I bet, they can't even use them, EVEN with maxed skills, even if they made up advanced versions of these said skills, the types of scanning probes that these devs and gms built are a excuse to make the game so hard that only those players who have actually got intellegence quition of say 5000 can use them properly and effectively.
So, here is my challenge, I want any Developer to PROVE with out question, that not only can they find any of these new exploration complexs, BUT!!!, to do it within 30 mins, and do it with the way they've set up the scanning probes as they are, AND!!!, absolutely NO CHEATING!!!
but, guess what, no GM, or, Dev. will even dare to take this challenge, and the reason, is because, they know, that, its impossible.
SO, its in ur court, to the Devs and GMs of CCP, PROVE IT!!!, or, remove it!!
and, guess what, every one of u cowards will decline the challenge!!
Well this is obviously not worth your time- ergo- not worth anyone's time. Come on people pack it in. Baxslash can't do it quickly and on the first try, it obviously a Dev conspiracy designed to foil him. Also means we are all doomed to eternal failure even if we have a modicum of patience...
Heres a tip- Get your skills up and put a little more effort into it. I may have been lucky, and it sure as heck wasn't anywhere near my first deadspace return, but I have found multiple deadspaces in under 30 minutes. Besides, you do not want the ones that you find in under 30 minutes... they are usually the junk ones
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Estan Drake
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2006.12.19 08:28:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Jackson Murphy
Oh man i love Exploration right as it is.
You can find sites with 500 millor more in it just when you have the pation to scan. For and it drives everybody away who thought he can make easy money from it.
So you find it boring to scan with mulitple probes and you want it easy ? Ncie go back to your mind grinder Mission and let the exploration to the real Explorar
mfg
SHHHHHHH!!!
(Don't give em false hope) 
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Veetor
Gallente
Acme Manufacturing
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Posted - 2006.12.20 06:38:00 -
[341]
Ok I like exploration now. :) The flashing neon sign that says ENJOY was a nice touch CCP
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.12.20 17:27:00 -
[342]
Quote:
A: The results are still inconclusive but initial tests seems to indicate the effective signal strength of a target inside a deadspace area (this includes sitting at the gate leading into it) is cut to 1/100 of its normal value.
I've been trying to get a handle on why people have such varying success rates with deadspace scanning since the patch. Any more ideas on this, or is it just a matter of dumb luck?
One thing that occurred to me last night when I was mission running...is it possible that the possible max range at which deadspaces spawn was increased as well? I was getting multiple mission sites spawning at 12-18au from any celestial, whereas I seem to remember that being a rare occurrence right after Rev.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Blind Picard
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Posted - 2006.12.21 12:45:00 -
[343]
Today i made a gang with my alt wich was running a mission. I warped to my alt raven and i made a safespot near him , under 1AU. After that i leaved gang with my scanner alt and i tried to scan my raven wich as i said it was under 1 au. I tried at least 20 times and nothing. Please Tuxx or another developer , read this and ballance this scanning system, at least in 0.0 systems. Maybe i wrong but where is the risk of a 0.0 system for this mission runners?
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Drake Doon
Minmatar
X.E.N.O.
Breidablik
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Posted - 2006.12.22 21:42:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Hoshi
Edited by: Hoshi on 15/12/2006 10:24:27
You can also see the results on the system map as colored dots. The color indicate the Signal strength.
0-0.4 = yellow
0.4-0.8 = green
0.8+ = red
You can warp to the results by right click on them and choose warp to.
Hoshi, GREAT READ!
Are you sure the signal strength/color is correct? It differs from what TomBs post on Improved Scanning indicates.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2006.12.22 23:24:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Drake Doon
Are you sure the signal strength/color is correct? It differs from what TomBs post on Improved Scanning indicates.
I know it differs but I also know my list is correct. At least unless something has changed in the last 48h on both TQ and SiSi.
What TomB wrote was probably what was intended but I would guess they made a mistake in the implementation.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Liluiminato
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Posted - 2006.12.26 18:15:00 -
[346]
CCP have cut down the deviation for all ship scan probes, including my lovely Deep Space Observator....
How now we can make a Deep Out Of a System Save Spots????
Using exploration probes with it's 4au deviation is ridiculous :(
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ArrrrJimLad
Caldari
PezCo - Ice Services
United Connection's
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Posted - 2006.12.28 11:35:00 -
[347]
Hi Hoshi, fantastic guide you've put together there mate.
Quote:
The full formula to calculate Signal Strength is:
Signal Strength = (Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) / 100) * (e^-((Target Range / Max Range)^2)) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength)
A math example: we are using a Ferret 40 au probe to try to locate a Scorpion 35 au away. We have Signal Acquisition level 3.
Signal Strength = (2.5 * (1 + 3*0.1) / 100) * (e^-((35/40)^2)) * (480 / 24) = 0.302 or 30.2% chance it will show up on our scan.
However, I just wanted to point out that in your original post the example for signal strength doesn't match the formula you stated... (see the bold text in the quote for mini-spot the difference competition  )
Otherwise, nice work! 
_________________
A single twig breaks, but the bundle of twigs is strong.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2006.12.28 14:46:00 -
[348]
Originally by: ArrrrJimLad
However, I just wanted to point out that in your original post the example for signal strength doesn't match the formula you stated... (see the bold text in the quote for mini-spot the difference competition )
Otherwise, nice work!
Opps :=) Thank you fixed now.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
hyundra04
Minmatar
Zulu Warrior Tribe
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Posted - 2007.01.01 20:11:00 -
[349]
hi there just a quick post to say i have created a new channel as an overflow to the EXPORATION in game channel. (EVE EXPLORATION) this is a temporary channel untill the owner of the original channel is found, and settings can be changed to accept more than 50 players.
hope you dont mind this post 0/ EVE EXPLORATION
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Drake Doon
Minmatar
X.E.N.O.
Breidablik
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Posted - 2007.01.05 18:59:00 -
[350]
Again, great work Hoshi. I frequently visit this thread. May I suggest highlighting your edits somehow so it's easier to see what you've updated?
One more for you. Your signal strength formula has a constant of 0.05 that changed to 0.1 in the example. What causes this change?
Originally by: Hoshi
Signal Strength
The full formula to calculate Signal Strength is:
Signal Strength = (Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) / 100) * (e^-((Target Range / Max Range)^2)) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength)
A math example: we are using a Ferret 40 au probe to try to locate a Scorpion 35 au away. We have Astrometric Triangulation level 3.
Signal Strength = (2.5 * (1 + 3*0.1) / 100) * (e^-((35/40)^2)) * (480 / 24) = 0.302 or 30.2% chance it will show up on our scan.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:10:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Drake Doon
Again, great work Hoshi. I frequently visit this thread. May I suggest highlighting your edits somehow so it's easier to see what you've updated?
One more for you. Your signal strength formula has a constant of 0.05 that changed to 0.1 in the example. What causes this change?
Opps more errors :) As for the highlighting, I have hit the char limit in several of the posts so to do something like that I would need to restructure the whole guide. Not going to happen anytime soon sorry.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Drake Doon
Minmatar
X.E.N.O.
Breidablik
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:15:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Hoshi
I have hit the char limit
Damn them limits all to hell!
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Drake Doon
Minmatar
X.E.N.O.
Breidablik
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:24:00 -
[353]
Originally by: Hoshi
Edited by: Hoshi on 05/01/2007 19:07:35
Accuracy
Max effective Scan Deviation = 10000 * ((0.6 * (0.267 ^ 2)) - (1.6 * 0.304) + 1) * (1 - 3 * 0.1) = 4305km. So each successful scan will give a random accuracy between 0km and 4305km. This means there is a 12.5% chance you will get a result in the same grid as the target.
Missed one. And I meant to ask this one too. What are you using to get the 12.5%?
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.01.05 22:51:00 -
[354]
Originally by: Drake Doon
Missed one. And I meant to ask this one too. What are you using to get the 12.5%?
You have to land within 500km to be in same grind (more or less depends on where in the grid he is but on avg, can be more or less but from a chance based view it evens out and with can say 500km always).
500 = 12.5% of 4000 so that is the chance that the scan will land you close enough. Guess I should edit it to 11.5% now with the changed math.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Erinna Zarx
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Posted - 2007.01.06 12:50:00 -
[355]
A rat poped up in my Dead Space mission yesterday, using recon prob, he said it took him around 20 min.
My questions are, was he really lucky?
Would an ECCM would make it virtualy impossible to find me? (was missioning with a Dominix)
Did I miss something in the guide explaning how to find a Deep SPace?
Q: What effect did the latest patch have on scanning for mission runners?
A: The results are still inconclusive but initial tests seems to indicate the effective signal strength of a target inside a deadspace area (this includes sitting at the gate leading into it) is cut to 1/100 of its normal value.
This makes any deadspace mission outside the range of exploration probes for all intent and purpose impossible to probe. You will only find it through sheer luck.
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Pakokkie
Caldari
Under Heavy Fire
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Posted - 2007.01.09 12:25:00 -
[356]
Edited by: Pakokkie on 09/01/2007 12:23:05
Edited by: Pakokkie on 09/01/2007 12:22:21
probing, more fun
I have been testing probes in low sec to get into plexes of mission runners
Easy enough after the last patch. You just need to know what to look for ;-P
Deep space probe is the answer or the ferret.
So, mission runners are still easy to get........
Mission runners are still easy targets..
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Grenen Re
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Posted - 2007.01.09 22:08:00 -
[357]
Edited by: Grenen Re on 09/01/2007 22:09:37
thanks for the guide hoshi, this really helps.
i too personally would like to see rarer finds with bigger rewards... but as this is new content and my experience with this is minimal, it could be possible that soemthing really badass hasnt been found just yet. but i could understand a need to keep it at a certain level for the aspect of keeping the game balanced. as far as the need for finding things faster, eve is for a sure a game of patience. i mean... look at the skill system. if you are playing this for a quick fix and superfast action you are not playing the right game. but in groups tasks can be accomplished much faster and with less risk... which brings me to my question. i havent been able to try this out yet because i dont really get the chance to play this game as much as i'd like... [i'm reading up at work while i have downtime] but to speed up the exploration process, couldnt you just form a gang of covert ops? and when someone finds good results just all warp to that location and keep probing? seems to me like that would work out a little better. especially if it's based on chance... it's like buying more raffle tickets upping your chance of getting a number you have called. it seems to me like if you can find empty plex's that someone else found that you could as a group search a system for the same target. would this work? or is each find based per pilot and not like a global instance?
edit: i didnt read the explore guide yet, if this is a redundant or silly question i apologize, i'll kill this if i find the answer there.
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Tarn Krimbell
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:17:00 -
[358]
Thanks the Gods I found your post, Hoshi! I checked out several other threads with outdated info that just confused the hell out of me. I was getting incresingly frustrated at the time, effort and ISK spent on my seemingly 'useless' probe gear. Your guide is fantastic and has given me my first probe success!
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GRIMREAPER 01
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Posted - 2007.01.14 01:56:00 -
[359]
is it possable to find ships of people who have logged beacuse i have serched and can never find anybody even with a probe but i see there ship on the directional scanner and even got there ship within 100,000,000km useing the directional scanner and still couldent get them with my probe and the ship should be within my probe range
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Siggur
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Posted - 2007.01.14 22:00:00 -
[360]
I've seen that your signal output is like 1/100th when you're in deadspace - meaning you're much less likely to be found on a deadspace mission (It might have been early on in the thread actually).. Is that true?
If it is true, does anyone know if it's true for exploration sites? Or for deadspace sites found via exploration?
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