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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations

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Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 01:41:00 - [1] Revelations I is just around the corner and with that a completely revised probe system. This post will try to serve as a guide to that system and I will do my best to keep it updated with any changes and other relevant information. Scan probing in Revelations This guide will focus on ship probing so if itÆs a guide to exploration or moon surveying you want you will have to look elsewhere. This guide assumes you posses at least basic control over how the Directional Scanner work. To do scan probing we need a few things, namely a probe launcher, probes, a ship to mount it on and the skills to use them all. Skills Astrometrics - Adds one scan group per level. Is the primary skill that determines what probes you can use. For example all exploration probes require level 5 and so do Observator probes. For combat ship probing level 3 will do fine unless the target is in a deep safe for which level 5 is need. Astrometric Pinpointing û Reduces maximum scan deviation by 10% per level. Means that you can use a weaker probe and still get a result that lands you in the same grid as the target. Astrometric Triangulation û 5% scan strength bonus per level of skill. Higher scan strength means easier to find the target and more accurate results. Signal Acquisition - 10% faster scanning with scan probes per level. Must have skill, will cut scan time in half at level 5. Sadly itÆs rank 8. Probe Launchers There are 2 different probe launchers, Scan Probe Launcher I and Recon Probe Launcher I. They have similar fittings (220cpu, 1pg / 220cpu, 2pg) and despite its name the recon probe launcher is not force recon exclusive. It can be used on any ship. Scan Probe Launcher I û 600 sec base cycle time (can be cut down to 108.4 sec). 10m3 capacity. 15 sec rate of fire. Intended to be used for moon surveys and exploration. Recon Probe Launcher I û 120 sec base cycle time (can be cut down to 21.7 sec) 1m3 capacity 2.5 sec rate of fire. Intended to be used for ship probing. The reason the Recon Probe Launcher can not be used for moon survey and exploration is the simple fact that the probes are too large to fit in it. ItÆs not possible to fit multiple probe launchers on a ship, not even offline. You have to choose which one you want in advance. Probes There are 3 different groups of probes. Ship probes, exploration probes and survey probes. Ship probes are the probes that fit into the Recon Probe Launcher. They include: Observator Deep Space Probe I - 1000 au range, 1 point sensor strength, 20.000 km max scan deviation, 4800 sec flight time. Ferret Scanner Probe I - 40 au range, 2.5 points sensor strength, 10.000 km max scan deviation. 2400 sec flight time. Spook Scanner Probe I - 20 au range, 5 points sensor strength, 5.000 km max scan deviation, 1200 sec flight time. Fathom Scanner Probe I - 10 au range, 10 points sensor strength, 2.500 km max scan deviation, 600 sec flight time. Snoop Scanner Probe I - 5 au range, 20 points sensor strength, 200 km max scan deviation, 300 sec flight time. Range - The max range of the probe, this is a 3d sphere and the probe will not be able to find anything outside this range. Sensor Strength - Higher sensor strength means larger chance to find the target and more accurate results. Max Scan Deviation - The maximum distance from the target any scans with this probe will give. Flight Time û The amount of time the probe stays in space. You need to finish any scan before the flight time runs out or it will fail. All the other probes are uninteresting for ship scanning. While the exploration probes have very high sensor strength they also have very low range making them unsuited for ship probing. -- Continues in next post --
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 01:42:00 - [2] Ships The ship of choice for probing is the Covert Ops frigates. There are 2 reasons for this, one is the built in bonus of 10% reduction to scan time per level (level 5 cuts the scan time in half) and the other is the ability to warp cloaked. If you canÆt get a 0 m accuracy result you will need to warp in cloaked and approach manually. Other ships that are useful for probing is the cloaking force recon ships for the warp cloaked ability and possibly the t1 astrometrics frigate as they have a 5% reduction to scan time per level. But in worst case any ship can be used. Basic probing So your target is sitting in afk in a safe spot and you want to find him? This is how itÆs done. First warp around a bit and see if you can find him on the directional scanner. If you can see him; get to the closest object and drop the needed probe. Use the range option on your scanner to determine which probe is needed. 5 au = 750.000.000 km, 10 au = 150.000.000.000 km. So if you can get within 750.000.000 km use the 5au probe etc. Max range of the directional scanner is 14.5 au. If you canÆt find him on the scanner you need to use longer range probes, probably Observator Deep Space Probes or possibly 40 au Ferret probes. After you launch the probe open your scanner, selec the System Scanner tab, select the probe and select the ôShipsö group (you might as well include as many groups as your astrometrics skill allow, there is no penalty in using several groups). Click ôAnalyzeö at the bottom of the window. A timer will appear counting down. If you want you can cloak now but do NOT warp away. If you do the scan will fail. You can switch to the Directional Scan tab and use that without breaking the probe. When the timer reaches 0 you will get a list with results. If your target is not in this list donÆt fret it. The probing system is now chance base and you might need to scan several times (20+ if you are looking for a very small ship with an observator probe). But first recheck your scanner to see that he is in range of the probe you choose. If he is in range just click ôNew Scanö and hit analyze again. Repeat until the target is found. You can also see the results on the system map as colored dots. The color indicate the Signal strength. 0-0.4 = yellow 0.4-0.8 = green 0.8+ = red You can warp to the results by right click on them and choose warp to. But at the time of writing that feature is bugged and will take you to a random result instead of the one you chose. Therefore you should use the results list on the scanner window instead. In the result list there are 4 columns. The first is ship type, second is signal strength (more about that in the advanced guide), third is the range from your current position and forth is Accuracy. Accuracy is the range from the spot the probe provides to the target. Accuracy is determined by several factors where the most important is the probe type and signal strength (see advanced section for formulas). Longer range probes give larger max deviation from the target. There is also some randomness involved here so a new scan might give a more accurate result (or worse). If you can get the Signal Strength above 1.0 with 1 probe you will always get 0m accuracy and can warp in right on top of the target. As long as you are using ship probes you should never get an accuracy result above 20.000 km If the accuracy is not good enough to get inside the same grid as the target you might need to launch and scan with a shorter range probe. Warp to the result by right clicking on it and choose warp to. Click new scan and right click on the probe you used and choose ôdestroy probeö. The reason for this is the fact that you can not launch a probe within the scan radius of another probe. Now launch a 5au (snoop) probe and scan with that. Worst case scenario with that probe will land you just 200km away, most likely a lot closer. -- Continues in next post --
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 01:43:00 - [3] Advanced Probing Signal Strength Signal Strength decides how large the chance is that the target will show up on a given scan and also effect accuracy. A Signal strength of 0.5 means 50% chance, 1.0 or more give 100% chance etc. Signal strength is a factor of the sensor strength of the probe, the signal size of the target, the range from the probe to the target and any skills you might have. Sensor strength is listed in the probe attributes. Target Signal Size = Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength Large target = easier to find, target with high sensor strength = harder to find. These values can be modified, a target with several shield extenders will have larger signature radius and be easier to find while a target with ECCM will have higher sensor strength and will be harder find. Range is something close to the following formula. It is not 100% accurate but should be good enough for most practical purposes. If anyone wants to take a shot at finding a better formula let me know and I will provide you with sample data. Range Multiplier = (1 û (0.65 ((Target Range / Max Range)^1.5)) Target Range is the range from the probe to the target, Max Range is the Scan Range listed for that probe type. This formula will return a result between 1 (at 0km) and 0.35 (at very close to max range). The full formula to calculate Signal Strength is: *Signal Strength = (Probe Sensor Strength (1 + Level of Signal Acquisition * 0.05) / 100) * (1 û (0.65 ((Target Range / Max Range) ^ 1.5))) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength)** A math example: we are using a Ferret 40 au probe to try to locate a Scorpion 35 au away. We have Signal Acquisition level 3. Signal Strength = (2.5 * (1 + 30.1) / 100) (1 - (0.65 ((35 / 40) ^ 1.5))) * (480 / 24) = 0.304 or 30.4% chance it will show up on our scan. Accuracy Accuracy is a factor of the max scan deviation, the signal strength of the scan, any skills you might have and a random number. If the signal strength of the probe is 1.0 or more the accuracy will always be 0m (unless you are using multiple probes). The formula to calculate Maximum effective Scan Deviation is: *Maximum effective Scan Deviation = Maximum Scan Deviation ((0.6 * (Signal Strength ^ 2)) û (1.6 * Signal Strength) + 1) * (1 - Level of Astrometric Pinpointing * 0.1)** The accuracy of the scan is then a linear random range between 0km and the Max effective Scan deviation. Linear meaning itÆs just as likely to return 0 as it is to return max eff scan dev or anything between. Math example: We will use the scorp from the last example, we also have astrometric pinpointing level 3. Max effective Scan Deviation = 10000 * ((0.6 * (0.304 ^ 2)) - (1.6 * 0.304) + 1) * (1 - 3 * 0.1) = 3983km. So each successful scan will give a random accuracy between 0km and 3983km. This means there is a 12.5% chance you will get a result in the same grid as the target. -- Continues in next post --
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 01:44:00 - [4] Multiple Probes You can use multiple probes to affect the outcome of the scan. The probes need to be dropped so the target is inside the intersection of the probes but so that the probes are not located inside the scan range of any other probe. Using multiple probes effect 2 things, Signal Strength and Accuracy. Signal strength is the signal strength of each individual probe added together and divided by some yet to be determined modifier. This modifier is larger for shorter range probes and is large enough so that if you combine 2 probes of very different range (5 + 20 or 20 + 40) you will actually get a result that less than if you just used the shorter range probe alone. Accuracy of multiple probes is better than a single probe would be but worse than the effective signal strength would indicate. So even if you can get the signal strength above 1.0 you will still not get 0m accuracy. 1/10th of the maximum scan deviation seems to be the best you can obtain using multiple probes. Using multiple probes are for most practical purposes inefficient, you are better of using the time it takes to find positions for the extra probes to just do more scans with just 1 probe. BUT there is one exception from this. The only practical use of multiple probes are to drop 2 or 3 Spook (20 au) probes just outside the scanner range (14.5au) of the target. This allows you to run a scan which if you have trained several levels of Astrometric Pinpointing will land you 250-500km from the target; in the same grid as it without ever being seen on his scanner. Rigs There is one rig that effect scan probing. Gravity Capacitor Upgrade. The T1 version give 10% less scan time and the T2 15%. The reduction is not stacking penalised. Directional Scanner ItÆs still possible to see probes on the directional scanner by setting it to not use overview settings, even easier now as a lot of stuff like npcs and roids have been removed from this list so it will come up much faster and be less clutered. To counter act this we now have the ability to destroy the probes at will by right clicking on it in the system scanner tab and choose destroy probe, you can even do this while cloaked. Destroying a probe will not destroy the results so you can go back and look at them by clicking view results. You should destroy your probes as soon as you got the results you want from them, especially short range probes. Done right it should only show up on the scanner of the target for around 30-40 sec, short enough time for him to miss it. Cloaked ships At the time of writing it is NOT possible to probe for cloaked ships. A dev said in a blog it would be possible to probe for them but it seems they either changed their mind, forgot about it or haven't got it to work yet. Known Bugs ItÆs not possible to use the results shown on the system map to warp to them. Doing so will warp you to a random result. ItÆs possible to drop multiple probes so that one probe is completely inside the range of another. This is done by dropping the smaller probe first and then the larger probe outside the range of the smaller one. Doing this will probably be considered an exploit so don't do it (considering how useless multiple probes are, especially when you combine probes of different range I don't really see this as very important). Attributes window show sensor strength truncated. This is most apparent on Ferret probe as it is shown to have 2 points strength but in reality have 2.5 points. You will also notice this on other probes if you have trained the probe strength skill and look at them fitted. There still seem to be some issues with the displaying of probe spheres on the system map. They sometimes appear off centre from their dropped position.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 01:45:00 - [5] -- Reserved --
Samirol Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 02:06:00 - [6] Edited by: Samirol on 26/11/2006 02:06:03 wow, thanks, i will definitely use this ** forum whoring message, the one that says "you are going too fast" the biggest nerf with kali is the one to forum ***s
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.26 02:16:00 - [7] Great guide, sure deserves a slot in the disambiguation sticky =) Last Weeks Signature
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.26 02:28:00 - [8] Exploration and probing Kali also introduces proper exploration, in the form of various hidden encounters. These can be any number of things - there are over 250 being introduced in Kali 1, which get more interesting and much harder as you move from Empire to Lowsec to 0.0. I've been playing around in a COSMOS constellation in 0.0 and I've found gas clouds (for booster manufacturing), straight-up complexes, archaeological sites, hidden databanks, rogue drone outposts, hidden roid fields full of ark and bistot... There's plenty of riches to be found, but you need to use scan probes to do it Basic mechanics Exploration probes use exactly the same mechanics as ship scanning probes - same skills, same equations etc. You need to use a Scan Probe Launcher rather than a Recon Probe Launcher, simply because (as Hoshi says) you can't fit an exploration probe in a Recon Launcher because the probes are too big. Other than that, the basics all work the same way. Exploration sites themselves seem to spawn within 1 and 4 AU of planets in system. It seems that you'll only get one per system maximum, and some systems may be entirely empty at a particular point in time. These sites move around in some manner related to player activity - I suspect that once they deem themselves "exhausted" they despawn, moving elsewhere in the system or to another system entirely. Finding an exploration site Exploration sites cannot be found using the system scanner - you have to probe them down using the exploration probes. These come in four flavours and four ranges: [Type] Quest Probe - 4 au range, 250 points primary sensor strength, 50 points other sensor strength, 2.088 au max scan deviation, 4000 sec flight time. [Type] Pursuit Probe - 2 au range, 500 points primary sensor strength, 100 points other sensor strength, 6,250,000 km max scan deviation, 2000 sec flight time. [Type] Comb Probe - 1 au range, 1000 points primary sensor strength, 200 points other sensor strength, 125,000 km max scan deviation, 1000 sec flight time. [Type] Sift Probe - 0.5au range, 2000 points primary sensor strength, 400 points other sensor strength, 2,500km max scan deviation, 500 sec flight time. The four types available are Gravimetric, Magnetometric, RADAR and LADAR. A Gravimetric Quest Probe will have 250 points of gravimetric sensor strength and 50 points each of Magnetometric, RADAR and LADAR. The technique I've been using is to spam outer planets with Quests and try and get as much coverage of the inner planets as possible with the same. Each site seems to have a set value for the "sig radius/sensor strength" ratio, generally between 0.1 and 0.2. If you do some calculations for ships you'll see that this is a pretty low number, equivalent to a ceptor with 200 or so sensor strength. Further, they each seem to have a particular type of probe that works best with them. Most Guristas sites I've found have been amenable to Gravimetric probes, which leads me to believe it's largely racial, but I've found one that required RADAR (more later). In any event, you take a lucky guess on the sensor type, set up your probes and analyse. At this stage you'll be looking for a signal strength between 0.1 and 0.4 on the right probe type, down to 0.05 or below if you've guessed wrong. This means it can take ten or fifteen tries to guarantee a result, but the probes last for an hour and a bit so you can afford to sit around, keep an eye on local (you can't analyse when cloaked) and keep trying until you get something. (Cont)
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.26 02:28:00 - [9] Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 26/11/2006 02:29:10 Once you get your initial contact life gets a lot easier. It'll show up on the system map (although as Hoshi notes don't try warping to it, it just takes you to the first result on the list which is usually a shuttle), so figure out where it is and try to see how close you can get. The rest is fairly obvious - drop the shortest-range probe you can that'll still scan it, and keep analysing until you get a good result, warp to that, analyse again if necessary... you get the picture. You'll usually be able to go from a Quest straight to a Sift, meaning the others will be used mainly for extra coverage around inner planets if at all. You really need a result with under 100km or so deviation before you can be confident you've found anything. Many sites won't spawn unless you warp into the grid they're in, and as you can't use the directional scanner to find them, if you land in a different grid 400km away you're basically screwed. This is where racial stuff becomes particularly important - you can find a site with the "wrong type" of Quests, you can get close enough to drop a Sift of the "wrong type", but using said Sift (or rather, lots of them) will usually get you to the point where you're sitting >500km away from the result and you're getting scan deviations which would actually take you further away. Not useful. Once you have your 0m result, be very careful with it. Some sites drop you at an empty deadspace gate, some drop you at a gate with passive hostiles near it, and some drop you straight into the line of fire. If you go in with a covops, go cloaked, bookmark quickly and run away again - I've lost I think two covops on SiSi to enemy fire in this way. Once you've got the bookmark you're basically done with the exploration aspect, at least until you find the next step of an escalating path. Gas clouds aside, the stuff I've found in 0.0 is not suitable for covops ships. Some of the plexes are supposed to be 10/10 equivalent difficulty.
Zhaine B e l l u m	Posted - 2006.11.26 03:04:00 - [10] <3 <3 <3 Sticky sticky sticky Nice one mate - - - - - - - - - - "PERGITE DEGUSTATE FORMOSUM BELLUM" Forward to taste the beautiful war. . .
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.26 03:13:00 - [11] Thx for the well thought out post and good efford. But all I have to say is: More chance based game mechanics YAY!... NOT!! I thought CCP learned something out of the ECM fiasco.. With each passing day EVE is turning into a chance based game of chess Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.11.26 03:19:00 - [12] Very very nice. I spent a few hours playing about in FD- with probes (dunno is anyone noticed me popping in and out of there SS's etc ) And although the maths-ey stuff I cant confirm, I can vouch that this guide is pretty accurate as to how the new probing system works. As for scanning cloaked ships - I dropped about 30 probes all over the system and not once did I get a result for a Force Recon or a Covert Ops. Doubt that nobody out of maybe a couple or hundred people in local was flying a cloaker so i'm inclined to agree that you CANNOT Scan probe cloaked ships as things stand. Once again good work on the guide Hoshi ----- Move along, nothing to see here...
Imhotep Khem Total Mayhem.	Posted - 2006.11.26 03:58:00 - [13] I like the new system. I hate the new chance. Seems like some of the original devs must have left as every day we see the advent of more and more dice rolls. When even finally tanks, everyone will point to the dice... ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.11.26 04:25:00 - [14] Originally by: Imhotep Khem I like the new system. I hate the new chance. Seems like some of the original devs must have left as every day we see the advent of more and more dice rolls. When even finally tanks, everyone will point to the dice... It's definatly not as chance heavy as ECM... from what I could tell it hardly affects anything at all. IMO its best to have that tiny margin of chance in there so it isn't just a case of "train all skills to lvl 5 and w1n" ----- Move along, nothing to see here...
Andrea Jaruwalski Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.26 04:31:00 - [15] I wish they'd have improved the stats of the Recon Probe launcher, it's not exactly different or easier to fit unless you specialise heavily toward it. Astrometric 5 , covert op 5, recon 5 etc. They mentioned the possibility of probing cloaked ships, is it harder to find cloaked ships or it gives out the same results as if it wasn't cloaked at all? WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 12:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Kunming But all I have to say is: More chance based game mechanics YAY!... NOT!! I thought CCP learned something out of the ECM fiasco.. With each passing day EVE is turning into a chance based game of chess I my opinion it's not so much about chance but mostly about statistics. If you have 30% chance to find someone that means on avg you need to do 3-4 scans before you find him, sometime less, sometimes more. If one scan takes you 30 sec than that target should take you 1.5-2min to find. I guess they could have designed some system where harder to find ships required a much longer scan but such a system would be complicated to do with how modules work in eve. So they made a system that have in many ways the same practical effect. Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski They mentioned the possibility of probing cloaked ships, is it harder to find cloaked ships or it gives out the same results as if it wasn't cloaked at all? Atm probing for cloaked ships on SiSi is like probing for cloaked ships on TQ, they won't show up at all. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:05:00 - [17] Great guide, thanks a lot! Siganture removed due to profanity - Serathu ([email protected])
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:10:00 - [18] Originally by: Hoshi Atm probing for cloaked ships on SiSi is like probing for cloaked ships on TQ, they won't show up at all. Poor Hoshi, how many times are you gonna have to repeat yourself before people believe you? ----- Move along, nothing to see here...
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:45:00 - [19] Very nice guides guys ... thanks /me hugs astrometrics 5 and cov ops 4 Can anyone tell me what ranks those new skills are?
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:59:00 - [20] Originally by: Radioactive Babe Very nice guides guys ... thanks /me hugs astrometrics 5 and cov ops 4 Can anyone tell me what ranks those new skills are? Astrometrics 5 and cov ops 5 here :) Astrometric Pinpointing and Astrometric Triangulation are rank 5 and requires Astrometrics level 4 and 3 respectively, Signal Acquisition is rank 8 and requires Science level 3. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Atandros Gallente Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:31:00 - [21] Thanks, that's an excellent and very well-written guide. ------- Sun! Sex! Sin! Death and destruction!
Aakron Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:37:00 - [22] ty for a fantastic post ---
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:40:00 - [23] Very nice guide. Kudos!
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 17:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Aakron edit: can anyone tell me (if they are on sisi) how much the probe bpos are seeded for Ship and Survey probe BPOs are not seeded (at least not in caldari space). Exploration probe BPOs cost 4.6m each. They have similar material requirements as Warp Disruptor Probes so in addition to the normal minerals they also requires Hypersynaptic fibers, Nanotransistors and Strontium Clathrates. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.26 17:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Aakron Edited by: Aakron on 26/11/2006 16:45:40 ty for a fantastic post edit: can anyone tell me (if they are on sisi) how much the probe bpos are seeded for Everything's been unseeded, sadly.
Callistus Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.26 17:08:00 - [26] Thanks Hoshi, very nice guide. One question; the range stated on the probes, is this the diameter or the radius of the area scanned? -------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.26 17:16:00 - [27] Radius, last time I checked (ie, not the way it works currently)
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2006.11.26 17:17:00 - [28] Thanks for the very nice and well written guide. Bear with me with some clarifications (which are probably obvious to any Kali tester): 1) The system introduces scan groups: do these include every interesting target (for non-explorer)? Namely, can you probe for (secure) cans, warp gates, NPCs/structures? Or in other words: do the new probes remove the need for manual (mid-BMs + scanner) locating? 2) Observators introduce 1000 AU range. Does that imply that any target farthen than that distacen from some warpable object is impossible to find? 3) The highest deviation is 20 000 km instead of dozens AUs in RMR. This seems to imply there will not be any way to create new deep safe spots in Kali. Currently in RMR you can create safespots at any distance and any direction just depending on your patience, by iteratively abusing Observator's large deviation. (Regardless of probing efficiency, the main point of such deep space spots is to be outside of directional scanner range) -Lasse thankfully
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.26 17:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Heikki Thanks for the very nice and well written guide. Bear with me with some clarifications (which are probably obvious to any Kali tester): 1) The system introduces scan groups: do these include every interesting target (for non-explorer)? Namely, can you probe for (secure) cans, warp gates, NPCs/structures? Or in other words: do the new probes remove the need for manual (mid-BMs + scanner) locating? 2) Observators introduce 1000 AU range. Does that imply that any target farthen than that distacen from some warpable object is impossible to find? 3) The highest deviation is 20 000 km instead of dozens AUs in RMR. This seems to imply there will not be any way to create new deep safe spots in Kali. Currently in RMR you can create safespots at any distance and any direction just depending on your patience, by iteratively abusing Observator's large deviation. (Regardless of probing efficiency, the main point of such deep space spots is to be outside of directional scanner range) -Lasse thankfully 1) They include pretty much everything you can directional-scan under Kali. I don't have a comprehensive list, but this definitely does not include NPCs as they've been removed from directional scan entirely. Hoshi probably knows about cans; would need a mission-runner around to probe for gates (of which there are none where I'm testing). 2) To the best of my knowledge, yes. Probes only scan to their max range, so at longer ranges you're unfindable. 3) You can get higher deviations on exploration probes, but you'll rarely be in a position to invoke those deviations due to the strength of the probes, and in any case they only go out to 4AU so you'd need a lot of patience to create deep safes with them.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 17:47:00 - [30] The scan groups are: Drone & Probe - As the name says, drones and probes (only scan probes, warp distrupt probes are not picked up). Scrap - This group was named Containers for a while and at that time could be used to find cans, now I have no idea what it picks up (does not pick up wrecks). Ships - Player Ships, no npcs. Cosmic Signature - Exploration content, don't know about mission gate and similar. Structure - Pos structures, haven't tested to search for npc mission structures but I don't think it works on them. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Kiyano	Posted - 2006.11.26 20:52:00 - [31] Fantastic thread.
HypnotiX Underground Revolution	Posted - 2006.11.26 21:06:00 - [32] good job, can someone sticky this ? ty
Abyss Jack Serial Chill3rz	Posted - 2006.11.26 21:47:00 - [33] very nice guide, but still missing to do deepspace saves... --------------------------------- nerf my sig
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.11.26 21:49:00 - [34] Terrific guides, thank you very much. :) One question... Originally by: Hoshi Skills Astrometrics - Adds one scan group per level. Is the primary skill that determines what probes you can use. For example all exploration probes require level 5 and so do Observator probes. For combat ship probing level 3 will do fine unless the target is in a deep safe for which level 5 is need. Astrometric Pinpointing û Reduces maximum scan deviation by 10% per level. Means that you can use a weaker probe and still get a result that lands you in the same grid as the target. Astrometric Triangulation û 5% scan strength bonus per level of skill. Higher scan strength means easier to find the target and more accurate results. Signal Acquisition - 10% faster scanning with scan probes per level. Must have skill, will cut scan time in half at level 5. Sadly itÆs rank 8. What about Survey? Is it changing to something else, or does it only affect exploration and survey probes? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 21:54:00 - [35] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske What about Survey? Is it changing to something else, or does it only affect exploration and survey probes? Sorry but I can't help you there, never did any surveying before kali and have not tested it in kali. I think it says the same but don't quote me on it. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.26 22:49:00 - [36] I was under the impression that "Survey" only affected scanner modules, ie roid scanners, cargo scanners and ship scanners (and possibly codebreakers and archaeology whatsits, I don't know)
Garrick Konquero Gallente ImmCo	Posted - 2006.11.26 22:55:00 - [37] Thanks for the information, gentlemen. I appreciate how many on eve, whether in the forums or in-game, take the time and make the effort to give advice and instruction. And it looks like there is yet another reason to train for advanced frigates!
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.11.26 23:00:00 - [38] Originally by: Joerd Toastius I was under the impression that "Survey" only affected scanner modules, ie roid scanners, cargo scanners and ship scanners (and possibly codebreakers and archaeology whatsits, I don't know) Looks like you're right: http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=1522 * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Seramyr d'Elia	Posted - 2006.11.26 23:41:00 - [39] Minor quibble. I'm still fairly new to this game, but using the standard km:AU conversion formula and the max range the directional scanner defaults to after inputting some ludicrously high value, I come up with a 14.32AU scanning sphere rather than the 14.5AU in your guide. Am I just missing something basic?
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 23:52:00 - [40] Originally by: Seramyr d'Elia Minor quibble. I'm still fairly new to this game, but using the standard km:AU conversion formula and the max range the directional scanner defaults to after inputting some ludicrously high value, I come up with a 14.32AU scanning sphere rather than the 14.5AU in your guide. Am I just missing something basic? No you are correct I just rounded it slightly in my guide. The exact range should be 14.355 au. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Seramyr d'Elia	Posted - 2006.11.26 23:54:00 - [41] nod
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.27 00:11:00 - [42] **** nice work, thanx ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.
Andrea Jaruwalski Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:07:00 - [43] I don't understand why they made a new Launcher, called it a Recon probe launcher and it's not that amazing. It's simply faster and isn't made for recons.. I was expecting something especially made for Recon ships, maybe less cpu but a decent chunk of PG like 50pg or something.. I guess you have to make sacrifices if you wish to have a probe launcher, online on a Recon ship or simply train up recon 5 (eek).. WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:58:00 - [44] Why make a special launcher for recon ship? They are not the ship you use supposed to use for probing, it's the covert ops and t1 astrometrics frigates that ccp wants serving that role. If you give recon ships the same or better probing bonuses as covert ops then the reason to fly covert ops are quickly disappearing. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.27 14:00:00 - [45] Thanks to you both for your hard work. A question on exploration sites: 'there are over 250 being introduced in Kali 1' Is that 250 total sites or 250 types of site? (250 total doesnt seem like many, given the total amount of systems in the cluster)
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.27 14:15:00 - [46] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=430679 250 scenarios, not 250 sites. There seems to be at least one per system, so 5k or so total sites
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.27 14:16:00 - [47] Awesome, many thanks.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.27 14:22:00 - [48] Nice guide Hoshi! I heard rumours about being able to probe and scan down covert ships!? Is this true? If so :( Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.27 14:33:00 - [49] No.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.27 14:35:00 - [50] Originally by: welsh wizard Nice guide Hoshi! I heard rumours about being able to probe and scan down covert ships!? Is this true? If so :( Is this a serious question or are people trying to drive me insane? Check the last post in the guide and check here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=432210 ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Michayel Lyon The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.27 17:49:00 - [51] Edited by: Michayel Lyon on 27/11/2006 17:49:28 Originally by: Hoshi Is this a serious question or are people trying to drive me insane? They are probably just lazy. "Oh look, a thread about scan probes. Oh noes, lot's of text. I'll just ask my question without reading anything written in here." Edit: Badd speling. --- Lasiverin Dark > Is everyone here allied? Red Knight > we are allied by our zombie like ability to ***** missions The Game - You just lost it
Ione Hunt Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.27 17:54:00 - [52] 1. Sticky!! 2. Time to make more SS above 1000AU ________________________________________________
Osiris Occido The Short Bus Squad The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.11.27 17:59:00 - [53] cov ops V completes this weekend on mrs. alt, astrometrics already at lvl5 Thanks Hoshi for the informative post <3 TSBS Video Vault [35] \| Perfect Quality with WMM
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.11.27 18:10:00 - [54] The new system does NOT allow you to probe for Covert/Cloaked ships. Thank that is clear enough? ----- Move along, nothing to see here...
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.11.27 19:44:00 - [55] Excellent thread, I think we all owe you random amounts of isk. One question, though: can you scan for cloaked ships in the new system? I heard that you can.
Dave Tehsulei 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.27 19:58:00 - [56] Can anchored containers be probed now ? I tried a few times without success on sisi
Callistus Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.27 20:04:00 - [57] Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Tsanse Kinske What about Survey? Is it changing to something else, or does it only affect exploration and survey probes? Sorry but I can't help you there, never did any surveying before kali and have not tested it in kali. I think it says the same but don't quote me on it. Just tested this and the Survey skill does not affect the duration of scan probes. The skill reads: "Skill at operating scanners. 5% improvement in scanner speeds per skill level." -------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.27 20:13:00 - [58] you say there's only one rig that boosts ship scanning, I was looking at this other rig: Emission Scope Sharpener I This ship modification is designed to increase the efficiency of a ship's analyzer modules. Have you tried this one, does it perhaps boost the scanning strenght of your probes or something? Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Fire Hawk Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.27 20:50:00 - [59] Nice one, needs a stick tho =) ____________________________________ omgfrenchpwntbh you are in teh pod.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.27 21:56:00 - [60] Originally by: Amarria Lightwielder you say there's only one rig that boosts ship scanning, I was looking at this other rig: Emission Scope Sharpener I This ship modification is designed to increase the efficiency of a ship's analyzer modules. Have you tried this one, does it perhaps boost the scanning strenght of your probes or something? http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/shipequipment/electronicsandsensorupgrades/scanners/dataandcompositionscanners/22177.asp Analyzer module. Used for archaeology.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.27 22:26:00 - [61] Originally by: Dave Tehsulei Can anchored containers be probed now ? I tried a few times without success on sisi No, when kali first came live on sisi one of the scan groups was named Containers and could be used to scan for cans. Now that group is named Scrap and seems to find nothing. Cans (both jet cans and anchored) don't even show up on the directional scanner anymore. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.27 22:52:00 - [62] Update: The bug where if you used the system map to warp to scan results you would end up at the wrong result has now been fixed. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.27 23:21:00 - [63] Edited by: Amarria Lightwielder on 27/11/2006 23:21:02 Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: Amarria Lightwielder you say there's only one rig that boosts ship scanning, I was looking at this other rig: Emission Scope Sharpener I This ship modification is designed to increase the efficiency of a ship's analyzer modules. Have you tried this one, does it perhaps boost the scanning strenght of your probes or something? http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/shipequipment/electronicsandsensorupgrades/scanners/dataandcompositionscanners/22177.asp Analyzer module. Used for archaeology. ah ok, thank you :) Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 04:03:00 - [64] Seems they forgot to seed Recon Probe Launcher I so no ship probing for a while sadly. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 04:03:00 - [65] Seems they forgot to seed Recon Probe Launcher I so no ship probing for a while sadly. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.11.29 06:19:00 - [66] Originally by: Hoshi Seems they forgot to seed Recon Probe Launcher I so no ship probing for a while sadly. Indeed Hopefuly its sorted by DT. I can't believe people are still asking me if you can probe/scan cloaked ships... -----
oodin Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.29 08:51:00 - [67] IS IT POSSIBLE TO SCAN FOR CLOAKED SHIPS?
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.11.29 09:26:00 - [68] Originally by: oodin IS IT POSSIBLE TO SCAN FOR CLOAKED SHIPS? You make me wanna cry... -----
Okotomi Anki	Posted - 2006.11.29 10:24:00 - [69] Originally by: oodin IS IT POSSIBLE TO SCAN FOR CLOAKED SHIPS? YES, IT IS POSSIBLE TO SCAN FOR CLOAKED SHIPS. Period. It is not possible to find them, though. :)
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.11.29 10:56:00 - [70] Originally by: Okotomi Anki Originally by: oodin IS IT POSSIBLE TO SCAN FOR CLOAKED SHIPS? YES, IT IS POSSIBLE TO SCAN FOR CLOAKED SHIPS. Period. It is not possible to find them, though. :) OMG I fell for it... I'm too tired... -----
frivolous Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:25:00 - [71] Thanks for taking the time to write up the guide fellas most helpfull.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 12:36:00 - [72] Update: The Recon Probe Launcher I BPO is seeded but they forgot to add a market group for it so we can't see it. Probably need a client patch to fix (unconfirmed) so don't expect them for a week Originally by: Jiekon the blueprint will be seeded soon, for some reason the blueprint didn't have a market group. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Skybar Minmatar Deviance Inc SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:29:00 - [73] Suggestion: Make a note in that first post that there is a different between the racial quest probes and "Quest Survey Probe". I still don't fully understanding probing (not astro at V yet), but I know that one made me confused. "Dauntless fleet commander, or the most nefarious pirate ever to terrorize the galaxy" Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:52:00 - [74] Originally by: Skybar Suggestion: Make a note in that first post that there is a different between the racial quest probes and "Quest Survey Probe". I still don't fully understanding probing (not astro at V yet), but I know that one made me confused. Well considering I only talk about ship probing I don't really see the reason. Neither the Quest Survey probe nor the Quest Exploration probe set are useful for ship probing, so even if you mistake them for each other you are not going to mistake any of them for ship probes. It should definitively be included in a exploration or survey guide. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Zan Tu	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:22:00 - [75] Edited by: Zan Tu on 29/11/2006 17:32:00 You sir, are a god in training ) Thank you for an wonderful post. I have a question about the 4 racial types of probes tho.. Are the gravi probes just for caldari space, minni for minni etc etc? Or are the objects out there randomly placed, ie amarr type in caldari space, use amar probe? Can you mix the racial types for a resualt? thanks ////////EDIT - Reading full post(s) for the win....got my answers further dn..thanks Zan "R&D Lottery: A Tax on people with poor math skills..."
Phichi Team Americas Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.29 18:23:00 - [76] I'm kinda tired so this might be a stupid question. The recon probe launcher is meant for ship scanning. Does this mean that I cannot use the scan probe launcher for ship scanning anymore? Muggers point out failures in one's personal security measures, but it does not alter the fact that they are muggers.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 18:32:00 - [77] Originally by: Phichi I'm kinda tired so this might be a stupid question. The recon probe launcher is meant for ship scanning. Does this mean that I cannot use the scan probe launcher for ship scanning anymore? You can but it's not optimal. It takes much longer (5x) to run a scan with it. If you don't have good skills + covert some probes are likely to timeout before the scan finishes. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Sevyc The Caldari Confederation	Posted - 2006.11.29 19:41:00 - [78] I just took my buzzard out with an old scan probe launcher, and some old probes, just to mess around with the new system (hadn't gotten to play with it on sisi, since ive been too busy IRL). I fired off a snoop (3au) probe, and started a scan. Imagine my dismay when I saw the counter was ticking down from 360 seconds. Shouldn't my scan time with Covert ops 4, and Survey 3 be a lot less than that? Is this a bug? Can anyone else confirm they are getting the proper bonus from their covert ops ship? Thanks!
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 20:44:00 - [79] Originally by: Sevyc I just took my buzzard out with an old scan probe launcher, and some old probes, just to mess around with the new system (hadn't gotten to play with it on sisi, since ive been too busy IRL). I fired off a snoop (3au) probe, and started a scan. Imagine my dismay when I saw the counter was ticking down from 360 seconds. Shouldn't my scan time with Covert ops 4, and Survey 3 be a lot less than that? Is this a bug? Can anyone else confirm they are getting the proper bonus from their covert ops ship? Thanks! Survey have no effect on scan probes, it's for cargo scanners and similar mods. The skill you want to train is Signal Acquisition (as it says in my guide :) ). ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Still Hart Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2006.11.29 20:53:00 - [80] Originally by: Sevyc I fired off a snoop (3au) probe, and started a scan. Imagine my dismay when I saw the counter was ticking down from 360 seconds. Shouldn't my scan time with Covert ops 4, and Survey 3 be a lot less than that? Is this a bug? Can anyone else confirm they are getting the proper bonus from their covert ops ship? Read the original post. Scan time for the old scanner has been increased to 600 seconds so 360 is correct with Covops 4. You want to use a Recon Launcher to scan with the old probes. Also can the author of the exploration part of the guide add in that to use the exploaration probes you need Astrometrics 5? I find this fact rather annoying and thus good to know. SH _____________________
Aquemini Amarr Amarr STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.29 21:24:00 - [81] Thank you for this guide, it all makes a bit more sense now
griff1972 Caldari UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.29 22:24:00 - [82] do you need to be in a cosmos type system to do exploration
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.11.29 23:53:00 - [83] Great guides lads, I'm bookmarking this :) ---------------- Kali ships worth flying left: Harbinger, Rokh. Only 2 left tux, you can make it!
Shanur	Posted - 2006.11.30 00:29:00 - [84] Awesome guide. First real briefing on how to actually DO exploring. Seeing as i planned to become a cloaker and a scout, this helps out a lot. Recon seems to make covops and scout ships a must have for any corp, instead of just a situational tool for pirate and raiding corps.
Barry Bennett	Posted - 2006.11.30 12:30:00 - [85] Edited by: Barry Bennett on 30/11/2006 12:30:46 Just a question about the maths involved - are we sure that it's the pinpointing skill used in determining the hit (the one with the 10% bonus)- according to the skill descriptions the relevant modifier would more likely be Astrometric Triangulation at 5%? Pinpointing would make sense on the deviation though. Awesome guide though.
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.11.30 13:06:00 - [86] I am also interested to know can you explore any system ? Or does it have to be a COSMOS system ?
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.30 13:10:00 - [87] Originally by: griff1972 do you need to be in a cosmos type system to do exploration No.
Sevyc The Caldari Confederation	Posted - 2006.11.30 13:43:00 - [88] Originally by: Still HartRead the original post. Scan time for the old scanner has been increased to 600 seconds so 360 is correct with Covops 4. You want to use a Recon Launcher to scan with the old probes. Also can the author of the exploration part of the guide add in that to use the exploaration probes you need Astrometrics 5? I find this fact rather annoying and thus good to know. SH[/quote Ah, apologies, I must have misread it. I thought that the base was 360 seconds. Thanks for clearing it up! -Sev
Santa Claw Federation of Synthetic Persons YouWhat	Posted - 2006.11.30 15:10:00 - [89] Edited by: Santa Claw on 30/11/2006 15:15:34 Edited by: Santa Claw on 30/11/2006 15:12:49 Originally by: Hoshi Advanced Probing The full formula to calculate Signal Strength is: *Signal Strength = (Probe Sensor Strength (1 + Level of Signal Acquisition * 0.05) / 100) * (1 û (0.65 ((Target Range / Max Range) ^ 1.5))) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength)** Sure that Signal Acuisition is the right skill in this formula? It gives a 10% time Bonus. I think the right skill would be Astrometric Triangulation.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:34:00 - [90] Originally by: Santa Claw Edited by: Santa Claw on 30/11/2006 15:15:34 Edited by: Santa Claw on 30/11/2006 15:12:49 Originally by: Hoshi Advanced Probing The full formula to calculate Signal Strength is: *Signal Strength = (Probe Sensor Strength (1 + Level of Signal Acquisition * 0.05) / 100) * (1 û (0.65 ((Target Range / Max Range) ^ 1.5))) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength)** Sure that Signal Acuisition is the right skill in this formula? It gives a 10% time Bonus. I think the right skill would be Astrometric Triangulation. ops, correcting now, thank you :) ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
HeimatarTrade	Posted - 2006.11.30 20:14:00 - [91] Originally by: Joerd Toastius This means it can take ten or fifteen tries to guarantee a result, but the probes last for an hour and a bit so you can afford to sit around, keep an eye on local (you can't analyse when cloaked) and keep trying until you get something. I am just started to try this but I am allowed to cloak while scanning. Will I just get no results if I do?
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.30 20:24:00 - [92] Originally by: HeimatarTrade Originally by: Joerd Toastius This means it can take ten or fifteen tries to guarantee a result, but the probes last for an hour and a bit so you can afford to sit around, keep an eye on local (you can't analyse when cloaked) and keep trying until you get something. I am just started to try this but I am allowed to cloak while scanning. Will I just get no results if I do? Believe so yes. Could be wrong, but I think that's how it works
Kjermzs Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.30 20:31:00 - [93] Originally by: HeimatarTrade Originally by: Joerd Toastius This means it can take ten or fifteen tries to guarantee a result, but the probes last for an hour and a bit so you can afford to sit around, keep an eye on local (you can't analyse when cloaked) and keep trying until you get something. I am just started to try this but I am allowed to cloak while scanning. Will I just get no results if I do? Thanks for the quick answer (thats my alt btw ) What about NPC sovereign systems in 0.0? Have there been reported discoveries in that space?
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.30 21:11:00 - [94] I haven't tried NPC 0.0 but I imagine it's there too. As to multi probes, you can scan with as many probes as you can drop in one go. You get improved strength but odd deviation from overlaps, and you can drop a probe on every planet in system and analyse them all in one go, otherwise it takes forever.
Kjermzs Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.30 21:29:00 - [95] You have no idea how happy that makes me.
Sabahl Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.30 21:42:00 - [96] Edited by: Sabahl on 30/11/2006 21:48:23 N/M I found one :)
Kjermzs Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.30 21:50:00 - [97] I'm still looking
Donna Darko	Posted - 2006.11.30 21:55:00 - [98] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: HeimatarTrade I am just started to try this but I am allowed to cloak while scanning. Will I just get no results if I do? Believe so yes. Could be wrong, but I think that's how it works I analyzed last night cloaked and it worked, was using the CovertOps cloak (I mention this because a while ago, I had no results when using the prototype, but had results when using the CovertOps device). You just have to start analysis then cloak. Stories.
Kjermzs Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.30 22:01:00 - [99] Originally by: Donna Darko Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: HeimatarTrade I am just started to try this but I am allowed to cloak while scanning. Will I just get no results if I do? Believe so yes. Could be wrong, but I think that's how it works I analyzed last night cloaked and it worked, was using the CovertOps cloak (I mention this because a while ago, I had no results when using the prototype, but had results when using the CovertOps device). You just have to start analysis then cloak. Thanks for that info. I'm using a Cov Ops II myself.
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.11.30 23:23:00 - [100] Astro V for any type of exploration makes me a sad panda ='(((( --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Mario delTorres Gang Bang Team Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 11:52:00 - [101] good job but 1 AU = about 150.000.000 km recount please your guide. ----- Dont drink and drive, just smoke and fly! -----
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 12:02:00 - [102] Originally by: Mario delTorres good job but 1 AU = about 150.000.000 km recount please your guide. Where does it say anything else in my guide? I rounded the max range of the scanner for 14.35 to 14.5au but that was intentional and hardly important. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
maarud Einherjar Incorporated Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.01 12:25:00 - [103] Originally by: Hoshi Skills Astrometrics - Adds one scan group per level. Is the primary skill that determines what probes you can use. For example all exploration probes require level 5 and so do Observator probes. For combat ship probing level 3 will do fine unless the target is in a deep safe for which level 5 is need. Astrometric Pinpointing û Reduces maximum scan deviation by 10% per level. Means that you can use a weaker probe and still get a result that lands you in the same grid as the target. Astrometric Triangulation û 5% scan strength bonus per level of skill. Higher scan strength means easier to find the target and more accurate results. Signal Acquisition - 10% faster scanning with scan probes per level. Must have skill, will cut scan time in half at level 5. Sadly itÆs rank 8. I may be wrong about this, but the probes for exploration don't need lvl V in astrometrics, it was like this on the test server, but it's not like that any more. They need lvl II, III and IV. You might wanna double check my info tho. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Killer Madafaka	Posted - 2006.12.01 12:37:00 - [104] Edited by: Killer Madafaka on 01/12/2006 12:37:18 Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Mario delTorres good job but 1 AU = about 150.000.000 km recount please your guide. Where does it say anything else in my guide? I rounded the max range of the scanner for 14.35 to 14.5au but that was intentional and hardly important. here: Originally by: Hoshi Basic probing So your target is sitting in afk in a safe spot and you want to find him? This is how itÆs done. First warp around a bit and see if you can find him on the directional scanner. If you can see him; get to the closest object and drop the needed probe. Use the range option on your scanner to determine which probe is needed. 5 au = 750.000.000 km, 10 au = 150.000.000.000 km. So if you can get within 750.000.000 km use the 5au probe etc. Max range of the directional scanner is 14.5 au. 10AU = 1.500.000.000 not 150.000.000.000 Edited: this is me :) Mario delTorres.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 13:08:00 - [105] Originally by: Killer Madafaka 10AU = 1.500.000.000 not 150.000.000.000 Edited: this is me :) Mario delTorres. Ah added 3 zeros instead of 1 for 10 au :) Thank you Originally by: maarud I may be wrong about this, but the probes for exploration don't need lvl V in astrometrics, it was like this on the test server, but it's not like that any more. They need lvl II, III and IV. You might wanna double check my info tho. Shortly before Revelations was released the skill requirements for exploration probes on SiSi changed to what you are showing here, they are still like that on SiSi. But for some strange reason that change never made it to TQ and they still require level 5 there. Bug? Intended? I don't know but I'll update it if I find out. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.01 13:16:00 - [106] Question.. What do the different colored contact circles mean? Red/yellow/Green is what ive found so far. Im in process of narrowing down a possible contact in EMPIRE. Im not sure yet if its a mission runner(do these show up on scanning as well? hope not) or wheather its a real contact... Kaaii Trading 101
Auldare Soundless Storm	Posted - 2006.12.01 14:50:00 - [107] Anyone got a breakdown on the scan time modifiers? Currently get 210 sec with scan probe launcher using Astrometrics 5 Cov-ops 5 and Signal Aq 3. Can't for the life of me work out how it can be cut down to 108.4sec with rigs Signal Aq 5 etc etc ================================================
griff1972 Caldari UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:43:00 - [108] I found a dead space last night in 0.0 with drone NPC's but I have yet to find another in or out of this system. Does anyone know what actually makes these dead space signatures spawn ?. I am beginning to wonder is it really worth looking for them, I have been to a few systems dropped a quest probe on every planet or 1 on a group of planets, analysed as many times as I could till probes dissipated
Albya Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:46:00 - [109] OMG ! thx for the work on this guide ! :) ----- Who live, who see
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:49:00 - [110] Originally by: Auldare Anyone got a breakdown on the scan time modifiers? Currently get 210 sec with scan probe launcher using Astrometrics 5 Cov-ops 5 and Signal Aq 3. Can't for the life of me work out how it can be cut down to 108.4sec with rigs Signal Aq 5 etc etc 600 * 0.5 (covert ops 5) * 0.5 (signal acq 5) * 0.85 (t2 rig) * 0.85 (t2 rig) = 108.375 sec ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:06:00 - [111] Sure would like to know if im probing down a exploration site or some dam mission runners dead space complex....;/ Am I wasting my time?? Anyone?? Trading 101
Mimes Gallente Medusas and Snails	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:09:00 - [112] Originally by: Kaaii Sure would like to know if im probing down a exploration site or some dam mission runners dead space complex....;/ Am I wasting my time?? Anyone?? I've found 2 empty deadspace pockets in empire with the exploration probes. All in 0.5 systems. Empty = nothing to see, nothing to mine, just floating decorations. Am-I somehow wasting my time too in empire ?
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:50:00 - [113] Originally by: Mimes Originally by: Kaaii Sure would like to know if im probing down a exploration site or some dam mission runners dead space complex....;/ Am I wasting my time?? Anyone?? I've found 2 empty deadspace pockets in empire with the exploration probes. All in 0.5 systems. Empty = nothing to see, nothing to mine, just floating decorations. Am-I somehow wasting my time too in empire ? this is very dissapointing.. It seems I too wasted 5 hours and 8mil in probes on several mission runners today.... thanks, but no thanks... Trading 101
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.12.02 00:01:00 - [114] More TK sp4m... From the new (next week) patch notes... Quote: * Probe Launchers can no longer be set to auto-repeat. * The scan strength of drones has been increased to 7.5 for ligth drones, 12.5 for medium and 22.5 for heavy. This only affects for probe scanning as they can not be target jammed. * Backup arrays now give a bonus to the sensor type listed in their description. Tech 2 versions now give a 48% bonus. The second two points are good news for sneaky types who aren't cloaked, and proactive lowsec mission runners. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Tharg Immortal Serial Killers	Posted - 2006.12.02 00:45:00 - [115] Great guide, helped me heaps. Found my first Deadspace Gate tonight in a 0.5. Wasnt much cop, but enjoyable to find after all the skill training none-the-less. Just a few frigs and cruisers, not a lot, no great loot. Hopefully as people get into this more CCP will beef up the content. Thankyou and happy hunting peeps "Never kick a tiger up the arse, unless you have a plan to deal with his teeth!"
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.02 00:56:00 - [116] Content gets better and harder as system security decreases. I've seen some of the 0.0 exploration plexes and really don't need them to get any harder, thanks :D
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.12.02 03:12:00 - [117] Mostly because of my extreme brain-gimp when it comes to math, I'm having trouble figuring out how much ECCM and Backup Sensors on the target impact scan success and accuracy. Could I get some help with the numbers? Say on a Raven, so about 500 signature and 22 unmodified sensor strength. The formula I'm having trouble with is this: Signal Strength = (Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) / 100) * (1 û (0.65 ((Target Range / Max Range) ^ 1.5))) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength)Say on something in the Raven range, so 22 unmodified sensor strength and about 500 signature. I just can't get it to add up when I look at the example given. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.02 10:00:00 - [118] Not sure what problems you have but you look at it like this. The signal strength is the factor of multiplying 3 things: The probe sensor strength, the range factor and the signal size of the target. If we call the the sensor strength S, the range R and the signal size T the formula would be: *Signal Strength = S R * T** Where S = Probe strength * skills / 100 R = 1-(0.65((range/max range)^1.5)) T = Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength In your example T would be 500 / 22 = 22.27 If put a 50% backup array on the raven the sensor strength becomes 33 so now his signal size T is cut to 500/33 = 15.15 This means is signal size is now 32% less than before which means the signal strength of the scan will also be 32% less than before. Then you need to input the probe strength and range to get the final signal strength and use that signal strength to calculate the accuracy. Hopefully I made things easier to understand and not harder now :) ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Necromincon	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:42:00 - [119] Hy guys, Great post, i just want to ask one thing.... where can i find Recon Probe Launcher? Thnx NC
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.02 15:34:00 - [120] In Tuesday's patch :)
zat evad Caldari Zat's Affiliated Traders	Posted - 2006.12.02 15:58:00 - [121] so does anybody know when or how or if we'll able to scan for wrecks to go salvage?
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.12.02 17:44:00 - [122] Originally by: Hoshi Not sure what problems you have but you look at it like this. The signal strength is the factor of multiplying 3 things: The probe sensor strength, the range factor and the signal size of the target. If we call the the sensor strength S, the range R and the signal size T the formula would be: *Signal Strength = S R * T** Where S = Probe strength * skills / 100 R = 1-(0.65((range/max range)^1.5)) T = Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength In your example T would be 500 / 22 = 22.27 If put a 50% backup array on the raven the sensor strength becomes 33 so now his signal size T is cut to 500/33 = 15.15 This means is signal size is now 32% less than before which means the signal strength of the scan will also be 32% less than before. Then you need to input the probe strength and range to get the final signal strength and use that signal strength to calculate the accuracy. Hopefully I made things easier to understand and not harder now :) I think that explanation will help a great deal, thank you. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.02 18:16:00 - [123] Cha-ching! (well sorta). Had my first real encounter with a sucessful probe down of an empire based DS rogue cdrone complex. Pretty cool Can read about it here Bingo Didnt' (want to clutter this thread) And a VERY special thanks goes to Joerd Toastius, who repsonded to all my convos in the middle of whatever he was up to at the time, to answer my battery of ongoing questions... \o/ Joerd Kaaii Trading 101
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.02 18:34:00 - [124] Expect a v2 of the exploration guide soon - got everything working nicely on TQ, found some new stuff, been corrected on other stuff and getting more intel on empire exploration.
Akisa Chen	Posted - 2006.12.02 22:28:00 - [125] How long do you guys have to try till you finally get a signature? I waste 6 hours, 23 quest probes in 3 systems. Thats more then 35 tries to find something! I am pretty sure I used the right kind of probes.
Veto1024	Posted - 2006.12.03 00:15:00 - [126] Great guide but I have a few questions. Can you use the original scanner problems such as the Fathom and Ferret and Snoop probes to find exploration sites or must you use these new Gravimetric/Ladar/Radar/Magnetometric quest/swift/pursuit/comb probes? Also, what about this observator deep space probe? What is that good for? It seems like a big waste of money to drop say, 10 probes into 10 planets in a system at 150k each (although getting a bpo helps reduce that cost ;)) and get a site with a few cruisers and destroyers. Plus of course, it sounds like you'll need a few probes to get a spot down. How do you know when you've stumbled upon an actual exploration site? Thanks for the help!
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.03 01:43:00 - [127] Edited by: Hoshi on 03/12/2006 01:44:46 Originally by: Veto1024 Great guide but I have a few questions. Can you use the original scanner problems such as the Fathom and Ferret and Snoop probes to find exploration sites or must you use these new Gravimetric/Ladar/Radar/Magnetometric quest/swift/pursuit/comb probes? Also, what about this observator deep space probe? What is that good for? It seems like a big waste of money to drop say, 10 probes into 10 planets in a system at 150k each (although getting a bpo helps reduce that cost ;)) and get a site with a few cruisers and destroyers. Plus of course, it sounds like you'll need a few probes to get a spot down. How do you know when you've stumbled upon an actual exploration site? Thanks for the help! You can use snoop probes, I succeeded in finding a guristats complex site with snoops on the test server. In theory it could even be faster to use snoop than quest but as they has such a short flight time you are going to use up A LOT of probes and you are going to have to move a around to redeploy them a lot. I wouldn't bother with the other probes, they have too weak sensor strength to be useful, sure you can pick up a site with an observator but you could just as easily sit scanning for 23h and still not pick it up. Price for probes when they settle down should be around 50-60k. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Veto1024	Posted - 2006.12.03 03:05:00 - [128] Originally by: Hoshi Edited by: Hoshi on 03/12/2006 01:44:46 You can use snoop probes, I succeeded in finding a guristats complex site with snoops on the test server. In theory it could even be faster to use snoop than quest but as they has such a short flight time you are going to use up A LOT of probes and you are going to have to move a around to redeploy them a lot. I wouldn't bother with the other probes, they have too weak sensor strength to be useful, sure you can pick up a site with an observator but you could just as easily sit scanning for 23h and still not pick it up. Price for probes when they settle down should be around 50-60k. Scanning's description(or lack there of) in Eve makes this confusing. Since i have only astrometrics 3, i use the fathom scanner probes and im assuming that the fathom and the 5AU scanner can only give you at the most, 1 survey per probe unless you are in a covert ops ship and have some skill. Im guessing its much much better to use these new specialized probes? Sounds like the best strategy is to just go into a system with a bunch of 4AU gravimetrics in caldari space and pop one at every planet and wait to see what you get.
Veto1024	Posted - 2006.12.03 03:49:00 - [129] Also, i tried to do multiple scans using 2 different fathom probes and only 1 result (negative) came up. Am i going to have to wait 10 minutes for every single planet i want to do in order to scan for these exploration sites without astro 5 to use the better probes?
sirknight Gallente Knight of Old	Posted - 2006.12.03 11:43:00 - [130] nice info thanks
sirknight Gallente Knight of Old	Posted - 2006.12.03 11:44:00 - [131] nice info thanks
ytfiytfi	Posted - 2006.12.03 14:00:00 - [132] Anyone had any new exploration areas spawn after 'completing' sites? So far I've finished two sites in two different systems and unless I'm being very very unluck I don't think a new site has spawned (tried before and after DT).
Chi'Nook	Posted - 2006.12.03 14:30:00 - [133] so the exploration sites can be found in high sec low sec and 0.0 alltogether right?
Amira Silvermist Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.12.03 15:49:00 - [134] Originally by: Chi'Nook so the exploration sites can be found in high sec low sec and 0.0 alltogether right? Thats how it should be yes... Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0%
Gentzen Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.03 17:53:00 - [135] I had spent some hours and about 30 quest probes, and finally found a hidden asteroid belt at 0.6 system. I explored four 0.5 systems and one 0.6 system. in each system, I spent 1 hour and 3-5 quest probes, and scanned an entire system 9-10 times. as far, it seems that existing probability of hidden site in high sec is much lower than I expected. # or simply i was very unlucky. thx Joerd Toastius and Hoshi for nice guide.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.03 18:23:00 - [136] Probability of finding sites seems to have been lowered by a factor of 10 or so vs what it was on SiSi
Amira Silvermist Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.12.03 19:08:00 - [137] Originally by: Gentzen I had spent some hours and about 30 quest probes, and finally found a hidden asteroid belt at 0.6 system. as far, it seems that existing probability of hidden site in high sec is much lower than I expected. # or simply i was very unlucky. Sounds quite like my experience... Well, at least this makes sure that exploration is indeed a "mini profession". Not many people will be willing to spend half a day probing just in the hopes of finding anything. PS: I also want to thank both of you for the great written guides and all the work you have done. Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0%
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.03 21:02:00 - [138] Found another one today..:) This time in an 07. I found a "hidden belt" full of omber. Some silvery and golden in there too. This in Forge space where omber doesn't normally spawn. A very nice find. No rats guarding it either, just pure omber, not bad for 4 probes work... As for respawning complexs...I checked both last nite and this morning on the one I found yesterday morning. The drones had not respawned, "but" a becon had.....it wasn't there before im sure. I tried to get it to operate but could not activate. No clue as to a key either. There were two structures left in the complex tho...i beat one down the morning i found it, but siad to heck with it for the other two. Now im wondering if maybe they are tied to the becon in some way, or if its just a fluke... Maybe tomorrow.. Kaaii Trading 101
codepic Mithril Inc	Posted - 2006.12.03 22:07:00 - [139] Great Post! Free Eve Wallpaper \| Corporate Bookmarks
Imperil Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.03 22:12:00 - [140] This has to be one of the most braindead content added by CCP for sure.. Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.03 22:52:00 - [141] Sorry about your ship. Don't worry, in time you will have another.. Trading 101
Imperil Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.03 22:52:00 - [142] Ok, some questions. After a scan, the higher the signature strength the better right? And if Accuracy is 0m it is good? Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.03 22:58:00 - [143] Originally by: Imperil Ok, some questions. After a scan, the higher the signature strength the better right? And if Accuracy is 0m it is good? yes Trading 101
Philip Jones Gallente Bridgeburners 9TH Squad	Posted - 2006.12.03 23:08:00 - [144] Hi I posted in a couple different threads, until finding this one. Earlier I was warping through Empire Space, when my ship stopped mid warp. A message box opened up, with the message; "Move along stranger, we dont like newcomers!". Before I could think to bookmark and take a picture, my ship started warp afain to the destination Starbase. I recreated the evets and took some bookmarks of the rout line, but as I am still traiing astrometrics to V, cant investigate further. If any1 wants to take a look and see whats there then I am interested to find out. Send me an email in game or post here will keep checking....
Philip Jones Gallente Bridgeburners 9TH Squad	Posted - 2006.12.03 23:08:00 - [145] Edited by: Philip Jones on 03/12/2006 23:09:48 EDIT* posted twice so removed this one
Imperil Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.03 23:31:00 - [146] Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Imperil Ok, some questions. After a scan, the higher the signature strength the better right? And if Accuracy is 0m it is good? yes Well I did a scan, got perfect results for warpin for a Stilletto and two Vespa I drones. However, the Large Caldari Tower, had the worst signal strength and accuracy about a couple of million km's. This seem rather strange to me? The larger the object the harder it is to find? Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.03 23:56:00 - [147] Originally by: Imperil Well I did a scan, got perfect results for warpin for a Stilletto and two Vespa I drones. However, the Large Caldari Tower, had the worst signal strength and accuracy about a couple of million km's. This seem rather strange to me? The larger the object the harder it is to find? As said in the guide the Signal Size of an object is it's Signature Radius / Sensor Strength. While on avg larger ships end up with a larger signal size it's not always true. One good example is Carriers which while larger than battleships also have a very high sensor strength and as such end up being a smaller target for probes (around battle cruiser size). Motherships having even better sensors ends up even smaller (cruiser size). A pos has the sensor strength of 1000 and as such ends up being very small. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Imperil Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.04 00:13:00 - [148] Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Imperil Well I did a scan, got perfect results for warpin for a Stilletto and two Vespa I drones. However, the Large Caldari Tower, had the worst signal strength and accuracy about a couple of million km's. This seem rather strange to me? The larger the object the harder it is to find? As said in the guide the Signal Size of an object is it's Signature Radius / Sensor Strength. While on avg larger ships end up with a larger signal size it's not always true. One good example is Carriers which while larger than battleships also have a very high sensor strength and as such end up being a smaller target for probes (around battle cruiser size). Motherships having even better sensors ends up even smaller (cruiser size). A pos has the sensor strength of 1000 and as such ends up being very small. That seem very stupid if you ask me. But hey, at least it follows the CCP standard. Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.04 00:43:00 - [149] Originally by: Imperil That seem very stupid if you ask me. But hey, at least it follows the CCP standard. [:( Personally I think it's a very good system, it removes the need to hand set the size of every single probable object while still giving most ships the same or close to same size as they would been given if it where set by hand. Are there some ships/objects that stand out and might need adjusting? Yes and in the patch on tuesday one set of object (drones) is being adjusted. We might see a few more similar fixes later when this system has been tested in practice for a while. But as a whole the system is sound a working well. If there is an object that you think is too easy or too hard to find then why don't you bugreport it instead of whining about it here? ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Meridin Velasces Sensus Numinis	Posted - 2006.12.04 00:51:00 - [150] I have to admint i didn't read the whole thread but the question i ask myself is: Are the exploration sides allready placed in certain solarsystems and you just need to find the or will they spawn if you probe long enough? -Meridin
Kjermzs Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.04 01:18:00 - [151] Now, should I be droping a Quest at every planet, scaning once, and moving on if I don't find anything? Or if I scan more then once will I have a better chance to get a signal?
Lurtz Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers	Posted - 2006.12.04 01:37:00 - [152] Originally by: Philip Jones Hi I posted in a couple different threads, until finding this one. Earlier I was warping through Empire Space, when my ship stopped mid warp. A message box opened up, with the message; "Move along stranger, we dont like newcomers!". Before I could think to bookmark and take a picture, my ship started warp afain to the destination Starbase. I recreated the evets and took some bookmarks of the rout line, but as I am still traiing astrometrics to V, cant investigate further. If any1 wants to take a look and see whats there then I am interested to find out. Send me an email in game or post here will keep checking.... send me an evemail or post the system here. I'll see about looking for it
Irrilian Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2006.12.04 01:53:00 - [153] Originally by: Kjermzs Now, should I be droping a Quest at every planet, scaning once, and moving on if I don't find anything? Or if I scan more then once will I have a better chance to get a signal? Drop one at each planet e.g. work your way inwards. With the center planets you want to consider how you position your probes. Two factors, one probe cant be launched in the sphere of another and its advantageous to overlap them if possible. Then just select all the probes and cosmic signature and hit analyze. If you get nothing, try again, and again. It can take several attempts.
9inelives	Posted - 2006.12.04 03:46:00 - [154] First off very good guide, am gald that we have people that will that the time to write all of thist stuff down 8-) My only real question is how does one find these hidden fields with the new stuff that has come out in rev. I am mostly a 0.0 miner and would find this very beneficial to me. If someone could reply and let me know a detailed way to go about it that would be much appreciated! Thanking anyone in advance 9inelive
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2006.12.04 06:31:00 - [155] I have a long question, but I'd really rather make it short, so here's the condensed version. My partner found a hidden drone complex last night and we decided to run it. I'm a miner, he's a ratter, so neither of us usually run missions/complexes. Anyhow, it was a 2 room complex, and in the 2nd room were some red cans labeled "leaking storage container." The thing is that the complex dropped virtually nothing as far as loot goes other than a bit in alloys and we couldn't damage the chemical station or whatever it was in the center, so I'm thinking that the cans may be related to the COSMOS skills. How does one tell if a hidden complex calls for these skills, since from the devs' descriptions they are intentionally making some hidden complexes use them. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Kjermzs Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.04 09:43:00 - [156] Originally by: Irrilian Originally by: Kjermzs Now, should I be droping a Quest at every planet, scaning once, and moving on if I don't find anything? Or if I scan more then once will I have a better chance to get a signal? Drop one at each planet e.g. work your way inwards. With the center planets you want to consider how you position your probes. Two factors, one probe cant be launched in the sphere of another and its advantageous to overlap them if possible. Then just select all the probes and cosmic signature and hit analyze. If you get nothing, try again, and again. It can take several attempts. I hate to ask again but I just wanted to confirm; I should scan the same system repeatadly before moving on to another, correct?
griff1972 Caldari UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.04 09:56:00 - [157] Has anyone been able to find more than 1 Dead space sig between down times, I have been trying to find some sort of pattern as to how the dead space sig's spawn. Have been probing since patch day and not been able to find more than 1 between down times in 0.0
Gentzen Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.04 10:13:00 - [158] my cosmic signature's signature size (signature radius/strength) was 0.052. I calculated some statistics. assumption is - there is 1 cosmic signature at the system. if signature size is 0.05 and range factor is 0.35 (worst case), and you scan 10 times, finding probability is - 8.4% (wrong probe) - 36% (correct probe) if you scan 40 times with all 4 type probes (complete scanning), finding probability is 73% if signature size is 0.05, range factor is 0.74 (average), finding probability is - 17% (wrong probe 10 times) - 62% (correct probe 10 times) - 94% (complete scanning) if signature size is 0.1 and range factor is 0.74, finding probability is - 31% (wrong probe 10 times) - 87% (correct probe 10 times) - 99% (complete scanning) You can not know Correct Probe Type in advance, so scanning many times with many probe types is very important to catch a cosmic signature. You must use Covert Ops. Signal Acquistion and Astrometrics Triangulation is very important.
Kell Atorr Minmatar Gradient	Posted - 2006.12.04 10:33:00 - [159] Thanks for the guide, and thanks also to the posters who added information about exploration. This is quite exciting -- I finally get to be the scout and explorer I've wanted to be since I started playing EVE!
griff1972 Caldari UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:06:00 - [160] Originally by: Gentzen my cosmic signature's signature size (signature radius/strength) was 0.052. I calculated some statistics. assumption is - there is 1 cosmic signature at the system. if signature size is 0.05 and range factor is 0.35 (worst case), and you scan 10 times, finding probability is - 8.4% (wrong probe) - 36% (correct probe) if you scan 40 times with all 4 type probes (complete scanning), finding probability is 73% if signature size is 0.05, range factor is 0.74 (average), finding probability is - 17% (wrong probe 10 times) - 62% (correct probe 10 times) - 94% (complete scanning) if signature size is 0.1 and range factor is 0.74, finding probability is - 31% (wrong probe 10 times) - 87% (correct probe 10 times) - 99% (complete scanning) You can not know Correct Probe Type in advance, so scanning many times with many probe types is very important to catch a cosmic signature. You must use Covert Ops. Signal Acquistion and Astrometrics Triangulation is very important. If this is the case CCP have to make it easyer to find dead space sig's or they have to be more worth while, I mean who is going to sit in a system for 4+ hours with only a 73% chance of getting a scan result
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:23:00 - [161] Originally by: 9inelives First off very good guide, am gald that we have people that will that the time to write all of thist stuff down 8-) My only real question is how does one find these hidden fields with the new stuff that has come out in rev. I am mostly a 0.0 miner and would find this very beneficial to me. If someone could reply and let me know a detailed way to go about it that would be much appreciated! Thanking anyone in advance 9inelive You've read my guide on page 1, yes? Originally by: Verite Rendition How does one tell if a hidden complex calls for these skills, since from the devs' descriptions they are intentionally making some hidden complexes use them. Generally, there'll be a structure with a white diamond icon (looks like a can), and when you try to open it it'll tell you you need special equipment to open it. It's also generally labelled either as some kind of ruin or wreckage (archaeology) or some kind of computer-type stuff (hacking). Originally by: Kjermzs Originally by: Irrilian Originally by: Kjermzs Now, should I be droping a Quest at every planet, scaning once, and moving on if I don't find anything? Or if I scan more then once will I have a better chance to get a signal? Drop one at each planet e.g. work your way inwards. With the center planets you want to consider how you position your probes. Two factors, one probe cant be launched in the sphere of another and its advantageous to overlap them if possible. Then just select all the probes and cosmic signature and hit analyze. If you get nothing, try again, and again. It can take several attempts. I hate to ask again but I just wanted to confirm; I should scan the same system repeatadly before moving on to another, correct? As best as I can tell, the best method is to find a SMALL system (ie fewer probes needed) and keep working it til you find something. Also, to everyone who's complaining about piddly loot, that's because you're in empire ;)
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:27:00 - [162] Originally by: Kjermzs Originally by: Irrilian Originally by: Kjermzs Now, should I be droping a Quest at every planet, scaning once, and moving on if I don't find anything? Or if I scan more then once will I have a better chance to get a signal? Drop one at each planet e.g. work your way inwards. With the center planets you want to consider how you position your probes. Two factors, one probe cant be launched in the sphere of another and its advantageous to overlap them if possible. Then just select all the probes and cosmic signature and hit analyze. If you get nothing, try again, and again. It can take several attempts. I hate to ask again but I just wanted to confirm; I should scan the same system repeatadly before moving on to another, correct? yes... Chances are the first time you probe a catagory, you'll find nothing, not 100% but its been true so far. Change catagorys, try again, come back to csomic sig, repeat until the probe runs dry or your outa play time :) It takes a long time. Of note in doing this I found one, then on the 2nd probe, found "two" sigs, same probe, same location. A 3rd time showed nothing, so did a fourth and 5th, 6th gave me the 1 loc result again, and 7th gave me the two loc. As noted in the guide, the probes "do battle" with the strength of the object, and they don't always win... Trading 101
Elfman Obsidian Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:38:00 - [163] When it comes to scanning down ships boy is it easy to find a passive tanked ferox. Think they need a option for scanners - ignore ferox. Wonder if mission runners realise that there standard 3 tech2 large shield extenders makes them almost impossible to not find. In fact it seems easier to find all cladari ships than say minmatar. (could be just where I have been testing there's more cladari ships) Also trying to find a corp mate in a inty seems difficult even though I knew already roughtly where he was. Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.04 12:30:00 - [164] Originally by: Elfman In fact it seems easier to find all cladari ships than say minmatar. (could be just where I have been testing there's more cladari ships) In avg (not taking shield extenders into account) minmatar are the hardest to find, followed by caldari, gallante and amarr (in that order). There are ships in many classes that stand out from this (heron and burst, caldari and minmatar frig are the 2 easiest frigs to find for example) but it can be used as a general rule. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Meridin Velasces Sensus Numinis	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:51:00 - [165] Edited by: Meridin Velasces on 04/12/2006 13:51:39 At first, thank you for this guide. Very good stuff There is still one question in my mind -> Are the exploration sides allready placed in certain solarsystems and you just need to find them or will they "spawn" if you probe long enough?Any idea on that? -Meridin
Kjermzs Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.04 19:57:00 - [166] One more question; do the types of probes that you should use coincide with the space your in or does it seem to be completely random?
Moominer InterGalactic Corp.	Posted - 2006.12.04 21:52:00 - [167] Edited by: Moominer on 04/12/2006 21:53:23 Exploration is getting really frustrating, using the "obvious" probe type for the space I'm in (e.g. Grav for Caldari, Radar for Amarr). Place the 4AU around the planets and after a few scans, I have found a signature in every system I've tried. However, after this first stage, warping to the siganture (or to an object near the signature) and scanning again with a shorter-range probe is just not working. Any ideas what this could be? Wrong probe type? I'm definatly within range of the deviation (e.g. deviation is 0.4AU, and the 0.5 AU, 1 AU or 2AU probe never finds the signature) Edit: For reference, current signal strength is 0.014 found using the 4AU probe Eve Fitting Manager
Marie Sklodowska Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.04 22:39:00 - [168] My question: Do I just start dropping the quest probes at outer planets, working inward, scanning for cosmic signatures? Do I scan for everything? What are the hidden deadspace pockets found under? and Gas clouds? Does the regular scanner pickup these hidden places before dropping a probe? www.eve-search.com \| www.eve-files.com
Amira Silvermist Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.12.04 23:28:00 - [169] Originally by: Moominer Edit: For reference, current signal strength is 0.014 found using the 4AU probe Thats the key to the answer. You did use the wrong kind of probes in the first place but got very lucky... Try out the other racial probes and you should find the signature again. Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0%
Mindlles 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.12.05 07:36:00 - [170] Good post Hoshi! Tho is it just me, or did scanning ships became way to easy now .. Scanning ships was something i had wasted alot off time to be a guy that can scan u down as fast as possible. Now well annyone with more then 1 braincell can do it.. Eve on easy mode once agan :P. Well hopfully more stuff to blow up in the end off the day annyway !
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.05 12:37:00 - [171] Originally by: Mindlles Well hopfully more stuff to blow up in the end off the day annyway ! Yeah that's what I am putting my faith in, no more having 2 fleets in 2 different deeps safes smacking in local. No more probing for 30 -60 min only to report to your FC that sadly the probing gods are not on our side tonight and we won't get any action. If less probe complexity is the key to more combat then so be it. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
sliver 0xD Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.05 15:20:00 - [172] Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Mindlles Well hopfully more stuff to blow up in the end off the day annyway ! Yeah that's what I am putting my faith in, no more having 2 fleets in 2 different deeps safes smacking in local. No more probing for 30 -60 min only to report to your FC that sadly the probing gods are not on our side tonight and we won't get any action. If less probe complexity is the key to more combat then so be it. next to that the current probe complexity makes it inposible to find macro npcers and logers. witch i think is still an exploit/cheat to this game. anyway witch scan type do i need for exploratoin ? a blackhole is, where god divided by zero.
OneSock	Posted - 2006.12.05 15:43:00 - [173] Originally by: Kjermzs One more question; do the types of probes that you should use coincide with the space your in or does it seem to be completely random? Good question. If your in Serp space, should you use magnetometric ? for example. Or do you need to try all types ?
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:30:00 - [174] Update: Recon Probe Launcher I BPO is now seeded and it's on longer possible to launch a probe so another probe ends up within its scan range. Both bugs have been test and confirmed fixed by me. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Exsecratus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.12.05 21:06:00 - [175] Originally by: OneSock Originally by: Kjermzs One more question; do the types of probes that you should use coincide with the space your in or does it seem to be completely random? Good question. If your in Serp space, should you use magnetometric ? for example. Or do you need to try all types ? This is the question I want answered- I've never been able to get this resolved. If I'm flying in Minmatar space, should I only pack Ladar? Or will it be completely random as to what I find on scan requires to pick it up best? Lith probes are expensive, and I don't want to carry all types of different sizes. Can someone in the know please straighten this out?
Oridonos Omega Armada The Pentagram	Posted - 2006.12.05 21:09:00 - [176] Edited by: Oridonos on 05/12/2006 21:09:36 yes would be really interesting if the needed probe type is depending on the space ure in. especially what types of probes could be usefull in the new drone regions? any ideas?
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.12.06 00:17:00 - [177] Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 06/12/2006 00:17:50 Is it necessary to have Astrometrics 5 for Exploration? I couldn't find anything obvious requiring it at that level beyond Observators, and I don't think those come into play except for ship scanning. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.06 00:47:00 - [178] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 06/12/2006 00:17:50 Is it necessary to have Astrometrics 5 for Exploration? I couldn't find anything obvious requiring it at that level beyond Observators, and I don't think those come into play except for ship scanning. No there was a stealth change in the patch today that lowered the skill requirements from astro 5 to 2-4 depending on range (you will in practice need level 4). ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Eagle32	Posted - 2006.12.06 03:40:00 - [179] Originally by: Hoshi No there was a stealth change in the patch today that lowered the skill requirements from astro 5 to 2-4 depending on range (you will in practice need level 4). Sonofa*****. Glad I hasn't started actrometrics 5 yet. Woot. A probe shopping I shall go.
Iog Krugar Gallente The Rising Stars	Posted - 2006.12.06 04:23:00 - [180] Edited by: Iog Krugar on 06/12/2006 04:25:24 Serpentis Battlestation in a two-stage deadspace, first stage lots of Corelatis battlecruisers (up to 200k bounty) and "Guardian"-named cruisers with 200k-250k bounty, second stage with multiple BSs (~750k bounty) and -beware- scrambling frigs. really crap loot but had some salvage luck. station might have a chance of containing faction loot, did not take it down to see if it would move with DT if not taken down. in case it stays in place and drops something nice tomorrow, i'll make an edit here. located in 0.1 gallente empire space, found with magnetometric probes (on 6th scan yawn). --- i suposse everyone rolls around stations in pods
Loraen	Posted - 2006.12.06 08:51:00 - [181] Originally by: Exsecratus Originally by: OneSock Originally by: Kjermzs One more question; do the types of probes that you should use coincide with the space your in or does it seem to be completely random? Good question. If your in Serp space, should you use magnetometric ? for example. Or do you need to try all types ? This is the question I want answered- I've never been able to get this resolved. If I'm flying in Minmatar space, should I only pack Ladar? Or will it be completely random as to what I find on scan requires to pick it up best? Lith probes are expensive, and I don't want to carry all types of different sizes. Can someone in the know please straighten this out? So far I haven't tracked down a site yet, but my experiences are that I've found a weak signal that, looking back at what's explained here, was of a different type than my probe so I couldn't track it down. I'd say pack Quest, Comb and Sift probes of the faction whose space you're in, and for weaker signal findings (which may have larger deviation) pack Pursuits and Sifts. Not sure if it's worth the time and money to start scanning down systems with all 4 Quest probe types in a sequence as the faction signature type is probably dominant.
Strangely Brown Cult of the Purple Wolf	Posted - 2006.12.06 10:20:00 - [182] Found my first one last night! It was in a 0.3 system in Minmatar space, used 4 Ladar Quests to cover all the planets and picked it up on the second scan. Then had to use a comb then a sift to get in close enough, they only took one scan each though. I was a bit disappointed at first, it was only one area with no acceleration gates and there were only 3 frigs and about 6 cruiser rats there (Angels). I then however noticed the 6 spawn containers, and once I had worked out how to open them I was not disappointed with the loot Watch out for booby traps though
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.06 10:28:00 - [183] Originally by: Exsecratus Originally by: OneSock Originally by: Kjermzs One more question; do the types of probes that you should use coincide with the space your in or does it seem to be completely random? Good question. If your in Serp space, should you use magnetometric ? for example. Or do you need to try all types ? This is the question I want answered- I've never been able to get this resolved. If I'm flying in Minmatar space, should I only pack Ladar? Or will it be completely random as to what I find on scan requires to pick it up best? Lith probes are expensive, and I don't want to carry all types of different sizes. Can someone in the know please straighten this out? Not enough data currently, sorry :( I'm still working on this but I'm busy with other stuff too and don't have the time to devote a week or so solid to getting the data atm. @Strangely good find :D Loot's pretty good considering ;)
Badboy K FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 13:15:00 - [184] Is it possible to prob out a cloaked ship now?
Squelch Crowd Control	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:47:00 - [185] It depends how much of the thread you can be bothered to read really. Originally by: Okotomi Anki Originally by: oodin IS IT POSSIBLE TO SCAN FOR CLOAKED SHIPS? YES, IT IS POSSIBLE TO SCAN FOR CLOAKED SHIPS. Period. It is not possible to find them, though. :)
Amira Silvermist Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:11:00 - [186] Originally by: Badboy K Is it possible to prob out a cloaked ship now? I am sure Hoshi will post soon to answer your burning question. ^^ Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0%
Amais	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:46:00 - [187] First of all, thanks for this great post which made me want to try out exploring a bit my neighbourhoods ... 0.2 gallente system, pretty large, last planet at 40au from center. Spent 2 scans with quest probes on each celestial object. Found a spot after using more accurate probes. Once you got the spot, in your systemmap a new point appairs, mine was : "Profession - Arcsal - Base 2 - LOW SEC - Serpentis. Whot's inside ? 9 cans : you need salvaging and an analyser (archeology) to open them. 4 cruiser protecting the whole spot, few frigs ... nothing an AF pilot can't handle. Whot's inside teh cans? After salvaging - analysing everything i got : 47 Charred Micro Circuit 20 Burned Logic Circuit 12 Conductive Polymer 3 Contaminated Lorentz Fluid 14 Damaged Artificial Neural Network 8 Fried Interface Circuit 24 Malfunctioning Shield Emitter Drones rigging Hybrid Weapons Rigging (when I saw some skill in teh box my heart accelerated a bit until realising it was nothing spetial :p) Serpentis buds do not repop. Cans do not refill. Spent around 20 probes on this spot. Is it worth it ? Nearly no risk ... No spetial loot .. but it's not 0.0 either. /me returns scanning other systems...
Jintoo Cranspar Minmatar adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:00:00 - [188] Can someone explain how I can scan for wrecks? I have tried all the groups and dont seem to be able to discover wrecks. I guess I might be using the wrong probes. Any help would be gratefully recieved!!
Kabeil Blackdawn The Shadow Order The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:44:00 - [189] when looking for exploration sites, is it possible to use the directional scanner to scan for npc pirates at a planet for a 4 au range. then if you find something, use a the probes to find a cosmic signature? This would make exploration faster and make use of less probes. If someone finds a site, could they test that out please?
Amais	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:59:00 - [190] Originally by: Kabeil Blackdawn when looking for exploration sites, is it possible to use the directional scanner to scan for npc pirates at a planet for a 4 au range. then if you find something, use a the probes to find a cosmic signature? This would make exploration faster and make use of less probes. If someone finds a site, could they test that out please? Unfortunatly ... not. Even if you are inside an exploration site, you open your directionnal scanner, uncheck overview settings, you see strickly nothing, only the wrecks you make and your gang mates.
tilt sedron Caldari M'8'S	Posted - 2006.12.06 19:18:00 - [191] As I have tryed some exploration probing (for hidden sites,...), but have not found anything so far, I wonder if I am perhaps doing something wrong. I have some questions and hope someone can help me. 1. Can those sites (complexes, gas clouds, ...) in general be found in normal 0.0 systems, or are there special areas, where it is more likely that you find something? 2. Is it possible / does it make sense to scan with several probes at the same time? 3. How many scans with the same probe do you need on average to find something (if it is there and it is in scan range)? So how big is the chance that your probe will / will not find an object, if it is there? 4. How big is the chance in an average 0.0 system that there is nothing at all? So how many systems do you have to scan in general until you find something? Thx in advance for your help
Mario delTorres Gang Bang Team Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.06 20:33:00 - [192] Originally by: Hoshi 600 * 0.5 (covert ops 5) * 0.5 (signal acq 5) * 0.85 (t2 rig) * 0.85 (t2 rig) = 108.375 sec I think no one covops have as many calibration points to use 2 rigs t2. T2 rig need 300calibration points but covops have only 400. Then 2x t1 or 1xt2 and something else. ----- Dont drink and drive, just smoke and fly! -----
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:53:00 - [193] Apopolgies if it is a noob question, but... Is it impossible to probe out anchorable cans (large standard container, etc)?
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:01:00 - [194] Originally by: Aramendel Apopolgies if it is a noob question, but... Is it impossible to probe out anchorable cans (large standard container, etc)? No, they don't even show up on the directional scanner anymore. Originally by: Mario delTorres I think no one covops have as many calibration points to use 2 rigs t2. T2 rig need 300calibration points but covops have only 400. Then 2x t1 or 1xt2 and something else. You are probably right, when I tested rigs on SiSi they hadn't added calibration yet. In that case the best you can get is 121.5 sec instead (2 x t1 rig). ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Kaiu Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:24:00 - [195] Originally by: Eagle32 Originally by: Hoshi No there was a stealth change in the patch today that lowered the skill requirements from astro 5 to 2-4 depending on range (you will in practice need level 4). Sonofa*****. Glad I hasn't started actrometrics 5 yet. Woot. A probe shopping I shall go. You need it to 5 to use ferret probes :S So for any kind of long range ss you need astrometrics 5 i assume Next lowest able to use is snoop with only 20au range :/ ____________________ MOGarmy
Yonos	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:31:00 - [196] hi hoshi You can find deadspace signatures in regular 0.0. I used Ladar Quest probes in Angel rat space and found a signature. The system has 6 planets and it took me 4 scans to get a result. Narrowing it down now and I will post what I find.
Eagle32	Posted - 2006.12.07 01:07:00 - [197] Originally by: Kaiu You need it to 5 to use ferret probes :S So for any kind of long range ss you need astrometrics 5 i assume Next lowest able to use is snoop with only 20au range :/ I can live without 40au probes. Hell I've been living with only using 3au probes for safe spot busting for a long time. I was only going to train astro 5 for the exploration probes. Now I don't have to. I can see that there may now be some massively far out safe spots that have gone from being effectively un-probable to actually un-probable.
Yonos	Posted - 2006.12.07 03:35:00 - [198] Finally found the deadspace. Took lotsa scans with sifts. Increadibly disappointing. There were some drone large collidable structures and one Broken Blue Crystal Asteroid (large collidable object). There were some bistot and arkonor roids too but the system already has those roids so thats useless. I blew up all the structures and nothing dropped. 3 hours down the drain...although I do understand how to do this scanning better now. I don't see any way to trigger anything. WTF CCP??
Veto1024	Posted - 2006.12.07 05:22:00 - [199] Guys, do the probes differentiate between mission beacons and exploration sites? I've found 2 signatures in a system and since i dont have better probes yet, i couldnt really look into them. Unfortunately, the signatures were 12 AU away from eachother. Heres a real step by step of what happened. Scanned using 3 scanners, found 1 signtaure with low signal strength, 1.8AU deviation, warped to it 2nd scan, no results 3rd scan, no results 4th scan, another signature, 12 AU away from the first signature, 0.8AU deviation, warped to that 5th scan, no results All using gravi in caldari with the 4AU scanner probe. Was i doing the right steps besides not having the right probes with me? haha
Yonos	Posted - 2006.12.07 08:36:00 - [200] I went to a nearby system and found something worthwhile. It was called "Angel Fortress" and it was 2 stages, with an acceleration gate. It was about the equivalent of a 7/10 complex. No special drops, no special cans, no special salvage. Just got the bounties, but salvaging was a bit more efficient because many of the cans were already empty and there were so many of them. It seems exploration yields deadspaces with a high degree of variability in quality. You will find uber stuff, good stuff, ok stuff, bad stuff, and ****ty stuff. So to find stuff that will make u an instant billionaire you will have to, well, explore. Using covert ops and good scan skills is the ONLY way to explore with any efficiency because you have to scan constantly. Nice guide hoshi (Do I still owe u money btw?). Happy hunting.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.07 11:10:00 - [201] Edited by: Aramendel on 07/12/2006 11:10:49 Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Aramendel Apopolgies if it is a noob question, but... Is it impossible to probe out anchorable cans (large standard container, etc)? No, they don't even show up on the directional scanner anymore. They do show up on the scanner, I had one yesterday on it, that was the very reason I tried to probe it. And I am pretty sure it wasn't a ship named that way. WIll check again when the servers up.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.07 11:13:00 - [202] Originally by: tilt sedron As I have tryed some exploration probing (for hidden sites,...), but have not found anything so far, I wonder if I am perhaps doing something wrong. I have some questions and hope someone can help me. 1. Can those sites (complexes, gas clouds, ...) in general be found in normal 0.0 systems, or are there special areas, where it is more likely that you find something? 2. Is it possible / does it make sense to scan with several probes at the same time? 3. How many scans with the same probe do you need on average to find something (if it is there and it is in scan range)? So how big is the chance that your probe will / will not find an object, if it is there? 4. How big is the chance in an average 0.0 system that there is nothing at all? So how many systems do you have to scan in general until you find something? Thx in advance for your help 1) Normal sites can I believe be found anywhere, gas clouds are only found in 0.0 COSMOS afaik 2) Yes and yes. Given that you can, there's no reason not to unless you're a masochist 3) With the sites I've been finding and given Hoshi's numbers, between 30 and 100 on average so far. Yes, it sucks. I'm still trying to work out if there's a pattern WRT probe types and sites 4) I thought it was 0, I could be wrong though. (As in, something in every system.)
Jin Steele Fatalix Inc. Schism.	Posted - 2006.12.07 11:43:00 - [203] just a question, where exactly are the 0.0 cosmos areas? Fatalix IS RECRUITING!
Sprobe Grga	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:49:00 - [204] I just used a radar probe and discovered a deadspace signature in 0.6 I simply decided to scan twice per planet, and I think I was lucky. The signal stength was 0.14. it was a little drone deadspace for frigs and cruisers; nice setting, challenging drones even for cruisers (needed to warp in and out 5 times). no special loot so far, but fun.
Hari Amun Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.12.07 17:31:00 - [205] Thanks for the great guides! I was able to detect a deadspace signature yesterday but because of missing skills, I couldn't get closer than 140km. Today after downtime, the signature was still at the same location and I could access it. Kind of an archaeology site protected by 4 very easy frigates. The site contained as special items: 1 Serpentis waste and 2 Serpentis debris "containers". No luck in salvaging the waste and npcs. Don't have the archeaology skills to access the debries. Probed with Magnometric in a 0.6 Gallente system. After 5-7 tries with the Magnometric Quest Probe I got a 0.4 strenth result. Don't forget, every race except Amarr has a frigate with probing time bonus. I did. It helps a bit while waiting for Covert Ops
Gatehopper	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:31:00 - [206] Hello; Couple questions. It talks about patterning the probes around a system next to planets but it also says not to warp away. So do you scan a planet at a time or can you drop all the probes and then warp to a safe spot and scan. It is asserted that a covert ops is necessary. It seems that this would only decrease the scan time and of course allow you to cloak. Is there any other advantages? There seems to be sufficient experience to show that racial probe types are important and don't necessarily go along with regions. Can one assume that if you get a low signature you are using the wrong type? Thanks for the guide.
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:34:00 - [207] What areas use which racial strength ? I mainly have LADAR probes atm, where is best to use them ?
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.07 19:28:00 - [208] Originally by: Gatehopper Hello; Couple questions. It talks about patterning the probes around a system next to planets but it also says not to warp away. So do you scan a planet at a time or can you drop all the probes and then warp to a safe spot and scan. It is asserted that a covert ops is necessary. It seems that this would only decrease the scan time and of course allow you to cloak. Is there any other advantages? You can not warp once you have started the scan but what you can do is place a probe, warp to next place, place next etc until all probes are down. Then you open the scan window, select all probes at the same time and start a scan. Those are the "only" two advantages of covert ops yes. For exploration you don't need a covert ops, the scan speed bonus is very nice (half the time at level 5) but not needed. But if you are probing for hostile ships a covert ops is very much requiered. Here time is everything and not being seen when you warp in is a must. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Sprobe Grga	Posted - 2006.12.07 20:35:00 - [209] Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Gatehopper Hello; Couple questions. It talks about patterning the probes around a system next to planets but it also says not to warp away. So do you scan a planet at a time or can you drop all the probes and then warp to a safe spot and scan. It is asserted that a covert ops is necessary. It seems that this would only decrease the scan time and of course allow you to cloak. Is there any other advantages? You can not warp once you have started the scan but what you can do is place a probe, warp to next place, place next etc until all probes are down. Then you open the scan window, select all probes at the same time and start a scan. Those are the "only" two advantages of covert ops yes. For exploration you don't need a covert ops, the scan speed bonus is very nice (half the time at level 5) but not needed. But if you are probing for hostile ships a covert ops is very much requiered. Here time is everything and not being seen when you warp in is a must. are you saying, that you can do multiple scans at the same time? omfg I lost a lot of time.. didn't try that one.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.07 20:39:00 - [210] Edited by: Alski on 07/12/2006 21:03:50 i found an annoying bug, i have 15x Snoop Scanner Probe I's loaded into a Recon Probe Launcher, i try to fire one and it error's with "Notify Recon Probe Launcher I has nothing to fire." tryed refiting the launcher, reloading the probes, loading only 1 probe, offlineing the module and reonlineing, and warping to different places, still no luck. Any ideads? EDIT: fixed it by relogging -
Lord Goodberry Gallente Madhatters Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.08 03:44:00 - [211] Excellent starting guide. Scanned about 10 random system's over past few days and didn't find much except abandoned ships. Then I found my first deadspace signature. Very exciting and rewarded the time investment. I suggest everyone try experimenting and spend some time with it. Especially in system-map mode where it's easier to see your probe scan 'spehere' and planets' alignment
Arain	Posted - 2006.12.08 06:58:00 - [212] Played with scan probes last night and after a couple hours managed to narrow down and locate a gate to a deadspace room. Unfortunately it had already been cleaned out by someone else. I would think they should program these in such a way that they would be generated for each gang or player that finds a dead space signature. Otherwise whats the point in spending a few millions on probes to locate a worthless piece of artwork.
Dumus Silver Service	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:29:00 - [213] Thanks to this very good guide I have found in a 0.3 area my first "anomaly" it is full of Gneiss, and all three flavours \0/ I am guesstimating about 100 mill's worth. Awesome content CCP have added but the time to "explore" is stupefyingly long and tedious! I have been scanning for over 8 hours now in several systems and this is the first thing I have found. -Dumus-
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:46:00 - [214] Can systems have more than one site ?
Meridin Velasces Sensus Numinis	Posted - 2006.12.08 12:08:00 - [215] A)Regarding the post from TomB in the Developmentforum. Yes it's possible. B)I'm not certain on that one, but as the exploration side is allready there, it's very likely someone else can find it, too. C)Sorry, no clue. The few that i have found where always in the near of a planet. -Meridin
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.08 12:17:00 - [216] Thanks for the link havnt read that one before! /me slaps head.
tilt sedron Caldari M'8'S	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:46:00 - [217] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: tilt sedron As I have tryed some exploration probing (for hidden sites,...), but have not found anything so far, I wonder if I am perhaps doing something wrong. I have some questions and hope someone can help me. 1. Can those sites (complexes, gas clouds, ...) in general be found in normal 0.0 systems, or are there special areas, where it is more likely that you find something? 2. Is it possible / does it make sense to scan with several probes at the same time? 3. How many scans with the same probe do you need on average to find something (if it is there and it is in scan range)? So how big is the chance that your probe will / will not find an object, if it is there? 4. How big is the chance in an average 0.0 system that there is nothing at all? So how many systems do you have to scan in general until you find something? Thx in advance for your help 1) Normal sites can I believe be found anywhere, gas clouds are only found in 0.0 COSMOS afaik 2) Yes and yes. Given that you can, there's no reason not to unless you're a masochist 3) With the sites I've been finding and given Hoshi's numbers, between 30 and 100 on average so far. Yes, it sucks. I'm still trying to work out if there's a pattern WRT probe types and sites 4) I thought it was 0, I could be wrong though. (As in, something in every system.) Thx a lot for the info. One more question: How can I find 0.0 COSMOS areas? Where are they located? How can I see if the system I am in is a COSMOS system?
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.08 22:45:00 - [218] New probe on Sisi. Multispectral Frequency Probe The Multispectral Frequency Probe scans the entire solar system for multispectral frequencies, and gives a readout on which types of frequencies exist. Volume: 1.25 m3 (so only for Scan Probe Launcher) Strength: 1,000,000 points to all types Flight Time: 600.00 Sec Range: 999 AU Requires Astrometrics Level 1. Not seeded so I can't test it yet. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Sexorella hotz Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.09 04:03:00 - [219] Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 09/12/2006 04:03:00 Seems 21.7s is not the lowest possible scan time on the recon launcher, its around 25-26 with rigs. I'm guessing perhaps you counted survey as part of the time reduction? I've since tested that and survey has no affect. So 120.5.5*.85 is best reduction you can get, that's covops 5, signal aquisition 5, and the t2 rig for scan time. A picky point but it annoyed me
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.09 11:12:00 - [220] Had some success with exploration but need to know something. Are most 0.0 systems empty? I`m not having ANY luck with 0.0 systems that have low populations, is this bad luck or are they generally empty of explorable content? I hope not because surely this is where exploration should be taking place....
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.09 11:22:00 - [221] Originally by: Sexorella hotz Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 09/12/2006 04:03:00 Seems 21.7s is not the lowest possible scan time on the recon launcher, its around 25-26 with rigs. I'm guessing perhaps you counted survey as part of the time reduction? I've since tested that and survey has no affect. So 120.5.5*.85 is best reduction you can get, that's covops 5, signal aquisition 5, and the t2 rig for scan time. A picky point but it annoyed me I counted 2x t2 rigs. At the time I did the math they had yet to introduce calibration on sisi. With 2x t1 (which should fit) it becomes 24.3 sec There are lots of small things like that that needs updating but I'll wait until CCP is down with their changes and update it all at the same time. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.09 18:34:00 - [222] Anyone had an escalating exploration yet ? I found a pirate base, that gave me the position for a pirate HQ, I went to the system and was presented with a bookmark. When I clicked on it it said ... "So much time has passed since this lead was given, that it is no longer accurate enough to be followed. You should delete it." It expired in under an HOUR! Is this normal? RL intervened and I missed it , Im pretty damn annoyed!
Amira Silvermist Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.12.09 21:49:00 - [223] Originally by: Shi'ra Kull It expired in under an HOUR! Is this normal? RL intervened and I missed it , Im pretty damn annoyed! Plus does this mean that the site is gone or can it still be probed out ? Its probably gone for good... Sorry Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0%
Kaiu Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2006.12.10 02:14:00 - [224] How do i scan out hidden belts now? Since roids dont show on system scanner and i cant select them on scan probes :( ____________________ MOGarmy
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.10 02:36:00 - [225] Originally by: Kaiu How do i scan out hidden belts now? Since roids dont show on system scanner and i cant select them on scan probes :( There are 2 types of hidden belts, one is the new temporary type which is part of the exploration system and can be probed down by using that. The other are bugged belts, belts that have spread out to cover more than the grid they are supposed to reside in. Those belts will be fixed so they are no longer spread out according to TomB (dev). ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Gentzen Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.10 03:09:00 - [226] I think it is important to find a small system for exploration. so I calculated a number of quest probes which I need to scan all planets in the system. probes2.txt exploration.txt #quest probes are deployed on planets. I dont know whether finding probabilities in smaller systems are less than those in bigger systems or not.
Ficti0n FireTech Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.10 08:26:00 - [227] Read patch notes OP. Think the guide needs updated respectively
Di Jiensai Gallente Myster0ns	Posted - 2006.12.10 12:07:00 - [228] I am wondering about the diffrent exploration probes: Is it possible that we dont have to use the longrange ones at all? I have a theory, that signatures are spawned at the time you scan for them, so that would mean you could scan only using the 0.5au probes, and get better results, without missing something. So, can you guys post the distance of the complex you have found, to the nearest Planet it belongs to? If we should find that they are all closer than 0.5au, it would be possible to only use the short range, high sensor strength probes. and thus more efficiently scan. --- The Story of the Big-Bad-Nos-Domi and the Brutix Selfproclaimed last instance on Rightousness Issues
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.10 12:32:00 - [229] Heres a bug that needs fixing. If you crash then you lose contact with your probes, they are still there in space when you come back but you cant use them :(
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.10 14:07:00 - [230] Originally by: Ficti0n Read patch notes OP. Think the guide needs updated respectively Not going to update it until I have tested what it means in practice. Patch notes are all well and good but we all know how often they differ from reality. SiSi has been down more or less since the patch notes where posted so I have not been able to test it yet. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.10 19:27:00 - [231] They seems to have completely borked scanning on sisi. Even with signal strengths up to 4-5 the targets still only show up once in every 20-30 scans. Doesn't matter if the target is in a deadspace area or not. As it is now it would be faster to scan with the old probe system. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.11 00:15:00 - [232] Originally by: Gentzen I think it is important to find a small system for exploration. so I calculated a number of quest probes which I need to scan all planets in the system. probes2.txt exploration.txt #quest probes are deployed on planets. I dont know whether finding probabilities in smaller systems are less than those in bigger systems or not. Thanks for the data :D Will probably include this in the next rev of the exploration guide, once I get round to it... Originally by: Di Jiensai I am wondering about the diffrent exploration probes: Is it possible that we dont have to use the longrange ones at all? I have a theory, that signatures are spawned at the time you scan for them, so that would mean you could scan only using the 0.5au probes, and get better results, without missing something. So, can you guys post the distance of the complex you have found, to the nearest Planet it belongs to? If we should find that they are all closer than 0.5au, it would be possible to only use the short range, high sensor strength probes. and thus more efficiently scan. All my initial finds have been between 1.5 and 3 AU from the nearest planet, so far...
Gatehopper	Posted - 2006.12.11 03:47:00 - [233] Do you have to use a covert ops to use sift probes? I tried to use the sift probe in a non-time bonus ship and I had a 10 min scan time which went past the 7 min life of the probe.
Horb F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.12.11 03:47:00 - [234] I'm scanned down three systems and have not found anything of yet. For those with success what was the most amount of failed scans before you finally found some results? I'm trying to decide when I can safely say nothing is here and move onto the next system.
Xaj Terag	Posted - 2006.12.11 05:20:00 - [235] Just as a note, the skill requirements to use the Exploration Probes has been decreased to Astrometrics III. I believe this was an undocumented change in the last patch.
Scaramaus Southern Cross Incorporated Pure.	Posted - 2006.12.11 10:01:00 - [236] Originally by: Gentzen I think it is important to find a small system for exploration. so I calculated a number of quest probes which I need to scan all planets in the system. probes2.txt exploration.txt #quest probes are deployed on planets. I dont know whether finding probabilities in smaller systems are less than those in bigger systems or not. Excuse me for bein a bit off-topic. But Gentzen, how did you find out all this data? Especially the sec-ratings of the new systems? Was it in the data-dump perhaps? Thanks for the data btw!
Gcidious Con Scandinavian Council The Scandinavian Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.11 10:32:00 - [237] Originally by: Xaj Terag Just as a note, the skill requirements to use the Exploration Probes has been decreased to Astrometrics III. I believe this was an undocumented change in the last patch. That's true, they just slipped that in! Here's the requirements of the 4 types of probes: Quest Probe - Astrometrics I Pursuit Probe - Astrometrics II Comb Probe - Astrometrics III Sift Probe - Astrometrics IV Guess I should stop training astrometrics V now
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2006.12.11 11:40:00 - [238] Edited by: Phyrr on 11/12/2006 11:41:33 Edited by: Phyrr on 11/12/2006 11:40:46 Originally by: Gatehopper Do you have to use a covert ops to use sift probes? I tried to use the sift probe in a non-time bonus ship and I had a 10 min scan time which went past the 7 min life of the probe. There are frigates that have astrometrics bonuses. I personally use a Probe (Minmatar Frigate) gets 5% bonus to modules requiring astrometrics per lvl.I fit a cloak to it for low sec scans. Also there are 3 astrometric support skills that will help even more: Astrometric Pinpointing, Astrometric Triangulation and Signal Aquisition. Enjoy:)
cphuhu	Posted - 2006.12.11 12:51:00 - [239] Everyone is talking about placing probes around planets, but has anyone trying to place them at safespots? Or to word it differently: Are there exploration sites in between the planets or only within 4au of a planet? How about gates?
Gatehopper	Posted - 2006.12.11 17:39:00 - [240] I think there should be an addition to the guide about the use of sift probes. You need signal acquisition to lvl 4 or a ship with scanning bonus to use them. Also, has there been any info on the risk of chasing mission runners in deadspace? I spent two hours in a system, found one signal only to have it disappear the next scan. Then another appeared at separate planet two scans later.
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.11 18:17:00 - [241] A piece of warning for explorers out there. If you find something in 0.0 and you see this message. "Your ship detects distress signals coming from inside this deadspace area. Perhaps the inhabitants are calling for reinforcements." They REALLY mean it!
Another Night Solar Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.11 19:02:00 - [242] Two big disappointments today: First was the deadspace signal in F3- system. It appeared to be a hidden complex with cruiser-frigate NPC's on the 1st lvl. And some BS appeared a bit later. On the second level there were 3 BS, multiple cruisers and scrambling frigs, who aggroed all in the same moment I warped in. It doesn't matter that i lost my raven (next time i will be more careful). More important the fact that after I replaced it and invited my friend to gang we killed everything on the 2nd lvl and after that we destroyed Drug Lab stucture. AND NOTHING. We didn't get anything. The structure wreck was empty. BSs wrecks contained somy tiny t1 loot. Was it worth spending several hours searching for plex in 0.0, running it and getting really NOTHING?? The second disappointment is even bigger. We scanned down a plex ith about 10-15 npc BSs on the 1st lvl and multiple support. We gathered a gang of 6 Battleships (one tank ant five damage dealers). We killed everything there. On the second we destroyed a structure "Angel Battlestation". Should I say that we expected a really great loot? U know what did it contain? Miner I, Stasis webfire I and Passive Trageter I. And we also got 4 mil bounty each. SO??? The question is. Why should one spent A LOT of time, looking for hidden encounters, gathering gangs, and getting NOTHING????
Admiral Tso The Greater Goon The OSS	Posted - 2006.12.11 19:23:00 - [243] if you have the accuracty of a scan down to 0km and you warp in cloaked in a covops, would that decloak you?
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.11 19:25:00 - [244] Alot of them have clouds that decloak you when you go through the acceleration gates, I havnt lost a covert yet though. Fingers crossed.
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2006.12.11 19:40:00 - [245] Questions for post SiSi testing (if possible): 1) Will ships in deadspaces found through Exploration be equally as difficult to scan down as those in mission deadspaces? 2) Would ships in asteroid belts found through Exploration be more difficult to scan down than one in a 'normal' asteroid belt? I expect this one to be "no" but thought I'd pose the question anyway. 3) It seems like this new Probe is intended to let you know which type (Maganometric, RADAR, etc.) to use in order to scan down a deadspace. Does a "find" with this probe guarantee the presence of a Cosmic Signature of some kind? i.e. - run this Multispectral Frequency Probe a few times and know (or have a good idea) if it's time to move on to the next system? Here's hoping! --Wherever you go, there you are.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:15:00 - [246] Originally by: Admiral Tso if you have the accuracty of a scan down to 0km and you warp in cloaked in a covops, would that decloak you? Yes but you don't have to warp in at 0km, you can warp in at 10 or what ever you want. For Simon Jax: I will test it again when I get home but yesterday probes where completely borked on sisi (see post earlier in the thread) and the multispectral probe had yet to be seeded. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:58:00 - [247] That said, some sites, being deadspace, will pull you in at 0m (once they've spawned) regardless.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.12 05:58:00 - [248] Originally by: Hoshi They seems to have completely borked scanning on sisi. Even with signal strengths up to 4-5 the targets still only show up once in every 20-30 scans. Doesn't matter if the target is in a deadspace area or not. As it is now it would be faster to scan with the old probe system. So to protect the missions runners CCP figures it's a good idea to nerf probeing into the ground for everyone.....nice. Originally by: Wrangler Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.12 10:42:00 - [249] Quote: The second disappointment is even bigger. We scanned down a plex ith about 10-15 npc BSs on the 1st lvl and multiple support. We gathered a gang of 6 Battleships (one tank ant five damage dealers). We killed everything there. On the second we destroyed a structure "Angel Battlestation". Should I say that we expected a really great loot? U know what did it contain? Miner I, Stasis webfire I and Passive Trageter I. And we also got 4 mil bounty each. SO??? We did a harder version of that, I wont spoil the surprise for others out there but we went through 52 rats in the first stage. The loot from the final objective ? Passive targeter I, small nos, etc you get the picture. It was a little disappointing.
Khajit Smitty Minmatar MisFunk Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.12 11:59:00 - [250] Originally by: Shi'ra Kull We did a harder version of that, I wont spoil the surprise for others out there but we went through 52 rats in the first stage. The loot from the final objective ? Passive targeter I, small nos, etc you get the picture. It was a little disappointing. Yeah had the same thing, close on 70 odd rats and a massive station with a nasty surprise, and all we got was a small kinetic smartbomb, muhahaha pathetic considering it took along time to do it.
Khajit Smitty Minmatar MisFunk Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.12 12:07:00 - [251] Has anyone tested the new exploration probe on Sisi ? The one that scans 1000au for a deadspace signature, i would really like to know how it works. is it a scan once and get a Cosmic signature back and then track the signatue down or is it a scan many times UNTIL you get a result? (i would prefer the many times, ie first attempt or 50th) Anyone have any feedback?
Dylan McKai Splintered Shards of Europe	Posted - 2006.12.12 12:20:00 - [252] I've been scanning in a few systems but haven't found any exploration sites yet. Do I really need to try random probe types (Gravimetric / Radar etc)? I've been dropping Quest probes and Comb probes of all 4 types and all I see are occasional drones in belts and abandoned shuttles. Shouldn't there be at least one exploration site in every system? What am I doing wrong?
Tao Tzu	Posted - 2006.12.12 14:41:00 - [253] Originally by: Another Night Two big disappointments today: First was the deadspace signal in F3- system. It appeared to be a hidden complex with cruiser-frigate NPC's on the 1st lvl. And some BS appeared a bit later. On the second level there were 3 BS, multiple cruisers and scrambling frigs, who aggroed all in the same moment I warped in. It doesn't matter that i lost my raven (next time i will be more careful). More important the fact that after I replaced it and invited my friend to gang we killed everything on the 2nd lvl and after that we destroyed Drug Lab stucture. AND NOTHING. We didn't get anything. The structure wreck was empty. BSs wrecks contained somy tiny t1 loot. Was it worth spending several hours searching for plex in 0.0, running it and getting really NOTHING?? The second disappointment is even bigger. We scanned down a plex ith about 10-15 npc BSs on the 1st lvl and multiple support. We gathered a gang of 6 Battleships (one tank ant five damage dealers). We killed everything there. On the second we destroyed a structure "Angel Battlestation". Should I say that we expected a really great loot? U know what did it contain? Miner I, Stasis webfire I and Passive Trageter I. And we also got 4 mil bounty each. SO??? The question is. Why should one spent A LOT of time, looking for hidden encounters, gathering gangs, and getting NOTHING???? Hello to Dev team û If this is going to be a mini-profession, but I find the same things in these encounters that I can get in lvl 4 missions in empire (or less loot than that it seems) or I can do the same thing (safer) ratting in 0.0 then this is useless. Great, yes, rare roids and gas clouds (that we cannot mine yet) - please tweak and make this worth while. Not everyone will train the skills to explore and even less with have the patience to do it. Please think about it. Thank you from a future-would-be-explorer
Gcidious Con Scandinavian Council The Scandinavian Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:25:00 - [254] Originally by: Tao Tzu Hello to Dev team û If this is going to be a mini-profession, but I find the same things in these encounters that I can get in lvl 4 missions in empire (or less loot than that it seems) or I can do the same thing (safer) ratting in 0.0 then this is useless. Great, yes, rare roids and gas clouds (that we cannot mine yet) - please tweak and make this worth while. Not everyone will train the skills to explore and even less with have the patience to do it. Please think about it. Thank you from a future-would-be-explorer Well let us see what changes tomorrows patch will bring us before we whine too much, aye?
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2006.12.12 16:02:00 - [255] I'm concerned that here we are the day before the patch and have yet to hear positive word as to the effectiveness of the probe re-vamp and the utility of the new probe. I really hope they're getting the new stuff tested properly before implementing the patch. I'd rather probing stay as is than for them to kill it for the sake of a few mission runners. Incidentally, I did have some success probing down a deadspace signature last night. A nice little area with only one rogue drone, but a rather decent amount of Gneiss in a 0.3(0.4?) system. Quite gratifying really. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 01:21:00 - [256] Another patch on sisi and still no multispectral probe seeded. It seems my earlier finding about probes being borked was in a way a bug and in a way a feature. For a time everything counted as it was a deadspace area. What does this mean in practice? It means the whiners got their wish granted, it is now for all intent and purpose impossible to scan for mission runners (or any ship in a deadspace area). There is an around 1/30 (3%) chance that a scan that would normally be successful will return a ship in a deadspace area. I don't know the exact number as I don't want to make the several hundred scans necessary to make this statistically correct. It could be even less. You don't have to be inside the deadspace area, it's enough that you sit at the gate leading into it. An accepted mission stays for a week, this means that if you get a mission in a system you end up with a safe for a week that is safer than a deep safe was in the old scan system. To find a battleship in a deadspace area with a ferret probe is going to take in the area of 50 to 100 scans which means around 30-60 minutes with really good skills. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Xebov Darklight	Posted - 2006.12.13 02:38:00 - [257] So Ships Inside Deadspace got some kind of Sensorstrength-bonus as long as they are inside the Mission.
Another Night Solar Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.13 10:39:00 - [258] Originally by: Gcidious Con Well let us see what changes tomorrows patch will bring us before we whine too much, aye? Well, there is no info about changes in Explorations in patch notes. Sadly to think, that a new profession is not worth it ((((
Harlequ1n	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:04:00 - [259] Exploration Guide: 1. Drop Quest probe by each planet in system (it doesn't matter what type) 2. Go to safe spot and analyze probes, then cloak 3. Wait approx 5 minutes, uncloak and analyze probes again 4. Re-cloak and repeat from step 3 for approx 1 hour 6. Dock, throw probes and scanner in corner of hanger and log An efficient way, I've found, of burning a million isk an hour...
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:22:00 - [260] Originally by: Xebov Darklight So Ships Inside Deadspace got some kind of Sensorstrength-bonus as long as they are inside the Mission. No they don't get a sensor strength bonus, once you find them they have the exact same signal strength as normal. It's a separate new roll to see if they can be found or not. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:12:00 - [261] A few more tests run on scanning for mission runners, nothing conclusive yet but it points to my earlier test being slightly off. What I am now seeing is the effective signal strength is cut by 100. If the scan window show 1.0 the signal strength used for the calc was just 0.01 (1% chance). Effectively it will have the same effect as I said in my last post, mission areas are not scannalble anymore, they have become super safes. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:23:00 - [262] Ok, so you can't scan ships that are in a deadspace mission, including ships that are at the gate to a deadspace and not actually in a mission. Does this have any affect on finding ships that are in an Exploration Deadspace? Do these changes have any perceptible effect on 'Normal' Exploration scanning? Sucks about the Multispectral probes. I hope they don't just throw it in the patch without it being playtested to some degree. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:48:00 - [263] Im sick to death of them dumbing everything down. Skill requirments dropped, mechanics simplified and whiners catered for. The exploration mechanic was pretty good in my experience. This new probe is not needed. Whats needed is fixing the loot drops on the existing exploration finds. Exploration is no fun if its as easy as drop one probe okay nothing here move on. Giving mission runners unlimited safe spots? Why should they be safe ? Slow it down a bit sure but make it nearly impossible ? Silly. Everyone in this gmae seems to want everything handed to them on a plate and for some reason CCP hands it to them.
Xebov Darklight	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:18:00 - [264] Originally by: Shi'ra Kull Im sick to death of them dumbing everything down. Skill requirments dropped, mechanics simplified and whiners catered for. The exploration mechanic was pretty good in my experience. This new probe is not needed. Whats needed is fixing the loot drops on the existing exploration finds. Exploration is no fun if its as easy as drop one probe okay nothing here move on. Giving mission runners unlimited safe spots? Why should they be safe ? Slow it down a bit sure but make it nearly impossible ? Silly. Everyone in this gmae seems to want everything handed to them on a plate and for some reason CCP hands it to them. I dont think that they changed it to get Missionrunenrs save. I think thy did it because of the thiefs that scan the Missionrunenrs and move in with a Hauler to steal loot or shoot on the NPCs and warp out to get the Missionrunenrs Stageagro.
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2006.12.13 18:32:00 - [265] They released new content that didn't just allow Empire mission runners to be more vulnerable, it opened the door for downright grief-play. Some of the stuff going on with those mission runners was simply wrong from every angle. It's not about them being "totally safe in a bubble", it's about putting things back to a reasonable state. The recent vulnerabilities of mission runners in Empire (rather, hisec I suppose) are just wrong from both a logical standpoint and a roleplaying standpoint. I hear people whine about gatecamping being "grief play" and frequently argue that it is not. There is absolutely no logical argument to support the actions of these "deadspace invaders" as being anything but grief play (with a few exceptions no doubt). So CCP had to do something. They opened the door for this grief-play, and now they have to shut it. Maybe they slammed the door too hard, by cutting off any realistic hope of scanning down mission runners, but when it comes to safespots is it really all that different than getting those missions 5au from the scannable plane that provided unprobeable safespots?? Yes, it is now no longer (reaonably) possible to scan down an active mission runner to attack them in lowsec and 0.0 space. Neither was that possible if a mission spawned outside the 1 or 2 au plane that scan probes were limited to before. What the hell have you really lost? You've gained the ability to bust damn near any safespot in the game. You've lost the ability to scan down mission runners whose mission spawn happened to coincide with the limited scannable range provided by the old system. And you are honestly carrying on about this? They didn't "dumb down" the game for pity's sake, they restored it to a state similar to the entirety of EVE two damn weeks ago!!! Good grief people, get a role model. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.13 19:24:00 - [266] I havnt lost anything i dont run missions or attack mission runners. That was a misplaced example in that case, my other points still stand. Good grief :p dont just focus on one point out of a post. The point that they dumb everything down remains valid, and still ****es me off. Yes they have made scanning for safe spots much easier and quicker too, and removed any skill from it. That also comes under the heading Dumbing things down.
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2006.12.13 20:05:00 - [267] Originally by: Shi'ra Kull I havnt lost anything i dont run missions or attack mission runners. That was a misplaced example in that case, my other points still stand. Good grief :p dont just focus on one point out of a post. The point that they dumb everything down remains valid, and still ***es me off. Yes they have made scanning for safe spots much easier and quicker too, and removed any skill from it. That also comes under the heading Dumbing things down. Sorry, I wasnÆt actually picking on your post specifically. Though I can see how it would seem so. There have been a lot of people carrying on that CCPÆs catering to the carebears by making mission deadspaces safe. Now, to actually address your other points. While yes, they made scanning much easier overall, the system is not without balance. I can see how the new system ædumbs it downÆ somewhat, but it adds more to the game than it takes away in my opinion. It doesnÆt make much sense to me for people to be able to create more-or-less untouchable safespots form which they can sit without fear of being spotted. ThatÆs no longer a viable tactic in lowsec and/or 0.0 space. Besides which, itÆs not like the recon launchers can just be slapped on to any æol ship without some serious drawbacks. CanÆt scan people in deadspaces? Also makes sense to me, theyÆre in a deadspace*! Your own bookmarks donÆt get you back to where you put it, let alone magically to the acceleration gate ... why should it get Mr. Scannerman there??? That said I can see CCP making more tweaks to the system as time goes on. This fix being to stem the griefing that they inadvertently added to the game. Though later on it may come about that the lower the security, the lower that deadspace æpenaltyÆ to scan resolution. But thatÆs neither here nor there. The exploration mechanic was just too baffling the way it was first implemented. Actually, my biggest criticism on that subject is the fact that without Hoshi here, I would have never been able to figure it out from what CCP told us (that I found at any rate) ... for the content creators to leave it to the players to figure out just baffles me. But I digress. I think the new probe is necessary, and it makes sense to me. WeÆll have to see, but I highly doubt itÆll be 100% accurate, as that would be too dumb even as far as IÆm concerned. But as it stands the rewards from these sites are iffy at best, and at worst worthless. Spending two hours and a dozen or so scan probes because youÆre guessing wrong just sucks. Being able to spend a half hour and one or two scan probes to see if itÆs worth it sounds better to me. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2006.12.13 20:09:00 - [268] I have used the multispec probes...found a magnetometric sig in minmatar space
storm2k5	Posted - 2006.12.13 22:29:00 - [269] some people here stated that there is a site in each system, it's just a matter of chance you find it. I guess that's wrong then, since I just probed a system with the new multispec and it said "no scan signatures detected"
storm2k5	Posted - 2006.12.13 23:41:00 - [270] Originally by: Commander Nikolas Yeah, I will second the WTF. All I get with the Multi's is "Unknown" I thought it was supposed to tell you what racial signature it was. I'm just try to probe the system which shows unknow with the standard sensor type I use for this region of space - will post if and what I get :)
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.13 23:42:00 - [271] 7 people 8 hours..... about 10 mill between us. OH how we have laughed tonight. KIA EVE Home
storm2k5	Posted - 2006.12.13 23:46:00 - [272] Originally by: KIAEddZ 7 people 8 hours..... about 10 mill between us. OH how we have laughed tonight. I love the tension! :P 3 2 1 no scan signatures found GRRRRR
Aurora Polaris Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.14 00:12:00 - [273] Seems those exploration deadspace signatures are A LOT harder to find after the patch. I got lvl3 pinpointing and lvl3 Triangulation and is having a hard time getting closer after the initial find with the Quests. This is in a .5 And if you're not going to spend an insane amount of money on probes with this 'profession' you better get yourself a cov-ops and Signal Acquisition skill and train both to 5.
banannagirl Minmatar The U-B-H-C	Posted - 2006.12.14 00:52:00 - [274] hi ive been trying to scan stuff ... before the patch the probes were level five astrometircs to sue now they arent .. why is this .. and whats more .. you can only scan along .. the plane which the stations and planets are on yes .. / - each system is a sphere .. but you can only scan along the planes you can warp to - ie a to b bookmark point c .. then scan etc etc .. this is futile ive found .. nothing and ive spent lots of time doing this .. oo i lie i found a shuttle .. so heres my question .. how the hell are we supposed to find .. asteroid belts and archeo whcih is what we were told there is out there ... that you have to scan for .. .. im guessing that the only way to get to deep space ie not along the plane of planets and star bases but out upwards near the outer limits of the sphere ... is to do missions which add new warp points to scan and bookmark to .. but hey .. that would mean having to do missions in every system your wanting to scan .. impossible .. what we need is a torpedo like scan probe .. or ten . that we can fire like the discoery in any direction with varying flight times we can fire and warp to anything that it comes across .. directly .. im talking like 4 au scan probes travelling at 50 km a second or such ... with a one hour flight time .. this we can just launch in any direction .. these scan probes really are very very limited due to where we can get to in each system .. ! ok i hear you say that means that all the other ships will be along the warp plane of the belts and planets etc etc .. but what about the lore and the secert belts .. ! Na the scanning aspect of the game is the same today as it always was .. very restrictive and a waste of time .. ! regards BG Link removed, advertising services for real world money is not allowed on the forums - Wrangler
melonboy	Posted - 2006.12.14 00:56:00 - [275] Originally by: Simon Jax Questions for post SiSi testing (if possible): 1) Will ships in deadspaces found through Exploration be equally as difficult to scan down as those in mission deadspaces? 2) Would ships in asteroid belts found through Exploration be more difficult to scan down than one in a 'normal' asteroid belt? I expect this one to be "no" but thought I'd pose the question anyway. 3) It seems like this new Probe is intended to let you know which type (Maganometric, RADAR, etc.) to use in order to scan down a deadspace. Does a "find" with this probe guarantee the presence of a Cosmic Signature of some kind? i.e. - run this Multispectral Frequency Probe a few times and know (or have a good idea) if it's time to move on to the next system? Here's hoping! the furthest probe you can launch that will scan to only 4 au .. thats like .. not even what your directional scanner picks sup on .. and now the directional scanner is harder to use as you cant tell what direction the scanner is scanning in as you used to eb able to ... ie the green little cone that showed up now has been nerfed .. hwat is going on with this scan thing .. its over hyped and needs looking at .. probes should FLY not just sit there .. with a 4 au limit .. 4 au .. is not enough to probe the sytem your in .. ! regards BG ..
Yonos	Posted - 2006.12.14 00:56:00 - [276] How do the multispec probes work? I have scanned two systems so far and only got no deadspace signatures detected. What happens when you detect something?
kember Gallente Orion Faction	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:00:00 - [277] Originally by: Yonos How do the multispec probes work? I have scanned two systems so far and only got no deadspace signatures detected. What happens when you detect something? If they detect a signature, it will show in the info as the sig type "Radar" etc, then you use the Radar (or equivalent) quest probes etc.
Kjermzs Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:02:00 - [278] After my 3rd system scan with the new probes I found a system with both a Mag and a Grav signal type. I rescaned twice and get the same result so maybe there are two sites in this system. I will scan them down and report again in a while. On another note, a few nights ago I scaned out a complex. Nothing special, two rooms and the last room had a drug lab. I blew up the drug lab and received one of the expedition missions as a follow up. It sent me 5 jumps away into a 0.0 Cosmos system. The notification from the follow up stated that there was a biohazard leak or something of the sort. At the site there were 6 storage buildings and if you were just sitting in the zone your ship was taking about 300 damage every few seconds. It looked like there may have been gas clouds but they did not appear to be celestial objects that could be targeted like a roid. Anyway, since we didn't have anyway to harvest the gas even if they were clouds we decided to blow up the storage containers..... After we blew up 4 out of the 6 we received a warning message stating the contamination had reached critical levels and our ships started taking 2k, 3k, and up to 5k damage before we barely made it out in our structure. We repaired and attempted to warp back but it had despawned. Anyone have any similar expedition or have a recommendation as to what could have been done? Feel free to message me in game.
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:19:00 - [279] I love people telling me this stuff so that It completely ruins the surprise when i find something it :/ And while im griping I have another bone of contention with the exploration system as it stands. The system is supposed to be tied into something to do with player movements. My exploration so far seems to bear this out. My gripe is in what way is that exploration?! If everyone knows which systems are most likely to contain sites, and they are the systems where they respawn most often and all you need to do is drop one probe and wait a few minutes to see if its there or not?! Make the rewards actually worth while and make the sites actually hard to find please.
Yonos	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:24:00 - [280] Edited by: Yonos on 14/12/2006 01:27:54 I also found those leaking containers and nothing happened after they blew up. Exploration seems to be half-baked new content. To that other guy: If we are spoiling your exploration "experience" don't read these threads. There don't appear to be that much variation of exploration sites as yet so people are bound to get the same plexs over and over again.
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:38:00 - [281] /me sighs. I see the future of exploration, step by step guides to every encounter, predictable spawn systems and easy to find sites. And a whole bunch of people going "you dont have to read it if you dont waaaant tooo" Wheres my barf bag.
Veto1024	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:41:00 - [282] I wonder if i'm even doing this right. I got into a system, place probes at the planets in such a way that as much area around planets are covered, go into the scanner and select cosmic signatures, click analyze, and let my probes scan in my buzzard (im using the race type of the region.... serpentis is magnetometric right haha), nothing comes up in low-sec! I've done about 5 runs so far and nothing. I tried this up in caldari 0.3 with gravimetric and did around 20 runs and nothing. Covert ops is to 3, astrometric triangulation at 3, signal acquisition at 3. Am I at least doing this correctly?
Yonos	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:49:00 - [283] Yes you are doing it right. Sometimes can take over 2 hrs to find something with quests. Beef up ur skills if you want to specialize in exp. The new multispec probe in theory allows you to scan whole system once to see if there is ANYTHING in system. So far I have found nothing with the multispec but I found stuff with quest planet spamming b4 patch.
Veto1024	Posted - 2006.12.14 03:19:00 - [284] Well, i even tried the multispecs. Used them in 3 systems, 3rd one came up with an "unknown" result.............. Wow this sucks haha
Kjermzs Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2006.12.14 05:02:00 - [285] Edited by: Kjermzs on 14/12/2006 05:05:49 6 hours later and I've found THREE different deepspace locations on completely different areas of the system map. I found both Mag and Grav sigs so have been using the corresponding probes. I can't get the signals on anything other then the quests so far though. I even had a signal that had a strenght of .1 and a distance of 1.2AU but cant pick it up again with pursuits. Anyone have similar issues and any sugestions? Edit: right now Im working on a signal that had a distance of .75AU but can't seem to get it again with combs.
Rshu Jhorlk	Posted - 2006.12.14 06:12:00 - [286] Multispecs in 3 systems = 4 signatures (2 magnetometric, 1 radar, 1 gravimetric) Ironically enough, racial would be LADAR. Guess that's why CCP put in multispecs. Will edit as/if I track them down.
Ju'Co Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.14 08:01:00 - [287] My alt has Cov ops 5, Astro 5, And all 3 new skills at 4: Trying the multispectral probes so far in 7 systems in the new regions, 4 of the systems are very high traffic (ratters/miners) and 3 of them are 90% dead. So far every result is "Unknown" New regions just bugged? cause in the old spamming quest probes in the new regions for days I was only able to find 1 signature once, but it was gone after dt.
Thira Rans	Posted - 2006.12.14 08:32:00 - [288] Originally by: Shi'ra Kull /me sighs. I see the future of exploration, step by step guides to every encounter, predictable spawn systems and easy to find sites. And a whole bunch of people going "you dont have to read it if you dont waaaant tooo" Wheres my barf bag. You don't have to worry! As long as the people only blow up everything they encounter, than wonder why nothing happens and than blame it on a bugged system - you won't find help here. But the surprise is spoiled!
Rshu Jhorlk	Posted - 2006.12.14 08:47:00 - [289] Originally by: Thira Rans Originally by: Shi'ra Kull /me sighs. I see the future of exploration, step by step guides to every encounter, predictable spawn systems and easy to find sites. And a whole bunch of people going "you dont have to read it if you dont waaaant tooo" Wheres my barf bag. You don't have to worry! As long as the people only blow up everything they encounter, than wonder why nothing happens and than blame it on a bugged system - you won't find help here. But the surprise is spoiled! Lol. I thought the same thing when I read through this thread.
Nardon Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.14 09:53:00 - [290] Originally by: Ju'Co My alt has Cov ops 5, Astro 5, And all 3 new skills at 4 Reading this I want to smash something! I mean there are alts for everything. Maybe I should create a pvp alt...^^ To be on topic the "unknown" result seems to indicate that any probe type will be able to find the deadspace. And you really only need one multispec per system. Just look over the probe stats. It is a bit over the top that such a probe is available at astro lvl1.
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.12.14 10:02:00 - [291] Originally by: Nardon Originally by: Ju'Co My alt has Cov ops 5, Astro 5, And all 3 new skills at 4 Reading this I want to smash something! I mean there are alts for everything. Maybe I should create a pvp alt...^^ To be on topic the "unknown" result seems to indicate that any probe type will be able to find the deadspace. And you really only need one multispec per system. Just look over the probe stats. It is a bit over the top that such a probe is available at astro lvl1. Was thinking about that - think the point is that everyone can use, hence anyone can "starter probe" and then call in the expert probers to actually track something down.
Another Night Solar Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.14 10:04:00 - [292] Maybe it would be reasonable to make requirements for a new multispec probe Astrometrics V? I lost much time to train it to 5th lvl and so did many people here. And than suddenly devs decide to reduce requirements for Exploration. Oh I'm so happy. Devs, do u realise that Astrometrics is a x3 skill and at the moment the 5th lvl of it IS NOT necessary AT ALL?? Scanning for 5 groups in the same time??? Who needs this?? So i suggest lvl 5 astrometrics requirements for a new probe - those who don't have it still can explore. Those who had spent time - will have an advantage. It will be honest at least.
Blind Picard	Posted - 2006.12.14 10:07:00 - [293] It seems that is impossible to find a mission runner with the new patch. I can agree with that for the high sec systems, but for the 0.0 mission runners is totaly unfair. WHAT IS THE POINT OF A LOW SEC SYSTEM !! Come on people, wake up!! In this case 0.0 mission runners are more safe than Jita or any 1.0 systems.
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.14 10:37:00 - [294] Night I love you! Quote: Maybe it would be reasonable to make requirements for a new multispec probe Astrometrics V? Yes very reasonable!
Arktaos Minmatar The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.12.14 10:59:00 - [295] Originally by: Another Night Maybe it would be reasonable to make requirements for a new multispec probe Astrometrics V? I lost much time to train it to 5th lvl and so did many people here. And than suddenly devs decide to reduce requirements for Exploration. Oh I'm so happy. Devs, do u realise that Astrometrics is a x3 skill and at the moment the 5th lvl of it IS NOT necessary AT ALL?? Scanning for 5 groups in the same time??? Who needs this?? So i suggest lvl 5 astrometrics requirements for a new probe - those who don't have it still can explore. Those who had spent time - will have an advantage. It will be honest at least. You get to use the top scan probes to find ships tho ---------------------------------
Elfman Obsidian Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.14 11:08:00 - [296] Was wondering if the type unknown was maybe the 5th eve race aka Jove. so there old jove sites. Yeah I know its a weird idea but bored at work and had waaaaay to much coffee this morning. Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.
Isabella Inari Caldari Panzershrek	Posted - 2006.12.14 11:20:00 - [297] Originally by: Blind Picard It seems that is impossible to find a mission runner with the new patch. I can agree with that for the high sec systems, but for the 0.0 mission runners is totaly unfair. WHAT IS THE POINT OF A LOW SEC SYSTEM !! Come on people, wake up!! In this case 0.0 mission runners are more safe than Jita or any 1.0 systems. Yes, I've discovered that as well. Today I tried to scan out an Apoc which I knew was withing 5 au, tried all sorts of scans, getting close using BMs etc, no avail. I know CCP stated they were going to make it harder, but it feels virtually impossible at the moment. They should make mission scanning difficulty proportional to system sec status. 1.0->0.0, Hard->easy. ----------
Sri Nova	Posted - 2006.12.14 11:21:00 - [298] Just in case devs read this .... i was hoping that with scanning i would be able to locate wrecks or salavgeable material in space so far from reading this post it does not look to be the case some info on what scrap is for would be nice
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.12.14 11:26:00 - [299] Edited by: Shi''ra Kull on 14/12/2006 11:31:25 The "Unknown" response from the multispectrals has cheered me up :) Got one myself now, wonder what it could be? :) /me chuckles edit: Bah no it doesnt Hoshi provided the answer in another thread, its not quite as mysterious as it sounds. /me cancels chuckle
Nardon Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.14 11:40:00 - [300] Edited by: Nardon on 14/12/2006 11:40:49 You thinking about the answer that 'unknown' indicates that any type is working to find it? I have my doubts about that as I got an unusual low sensor strength when trying to find a certain 'unkown' type with a ladar probe. Unkown could mean that the target works on more than just one sensor type. If for example you look up rogue drones they use ladar and magnetomatric scanners. So instead of reporting back two sensor types for one signature it just says 'unknown'. So that still could leave you with two "wrong" choices. It's just a hypothesis though atm.
Brixer	Posted - 2006.12.14 12:12:00 - [301] A dev has confirmed that with a 'unknown' signature type it doesn't matter what type of probes you use. No signature found means there is NO site to be found in the current system. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=443104 Now, can you guys start making probes already.. At the current price you'll get back 100% of the cost of bulding them.
Arktaos Minmatar The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.12.14 13:57:00 - [302] Originally by: Brixer A dev has confirmed that with a 'unknown' signature type it doesn't matter what type of probes you use. No signature found means there is NO site to be found in the current system. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=443104 Now, can you guys start making probes already.. At the current price you'll get back 100% of the cost of bulding them. Linkage DISCLAIMER: this link is mostly for my self, as i am lazy. ---------------------------------
Ju'Co Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.14 17:29:00 - [303] Gonna go and try and hunt one of these "Unknown" signatures I get lots of in the new regions then. I got an Unknown, and a Gravmetric earlier after my first post in this thread...Put 4 au' Grav Quest probess at each Planet in system, an spammed scans for 30 minutes...anyway, no results on either, and then it was dt.
Iog Krugar Gallente The Rising Stars	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:08:00 - [304] Edited by: Iog Krugar on 14/12/2006 19:12:06 Gravimetric results usually are hidden Belts (in non-gurista space, at least), explaining why you can find "caldari, here? wtf?" signals all over the cluster. Unknown results seem to be either Drone Encounters or other Escalating Path Dungeons that someone has already probed down and warped to. it appears that the deadspace dungeons are generated/spawned when the first explorer enters grid with the signatures location. this explains why you can warp to 3000km of a signature and make a bookmark there, but once you used a sift probe and warped-to-zero to the final result, warping to the above bookmark will land you at the final result again (usually at a warpgate). once the site is in that "spawned" state, its signature type changes to "Unknown" yet another screenshot of deployed probes clicky for the "results & experiences" thread --- i suposse everyone rolls around stations in pods
Eagle32	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:05:00 - [305] Originally by: Iog Krugar once the site is in that "spawned" state, its signature type changes to "Unknown" That is definitely not correct. I probed out a radar sig in a system yesterday. I ran the complex and it was still showing as a radar sig when I used another multispec to scan the system about an hour latter and the complex was still in the same place. I also scanned out a grav sig in a different system after that that had already been cleared by someone else.
Veto1024	Posted - 2006.12.15 04:12:00 - [306] Got my first exploration site today I think.... Battleships EVERYWHERE. Ended up a drug lab and a smugglers gate which proceeded to destroy along with parts of hte base..... and then.... nothing? I guess it was just a complex to make 50 million worth of bounties. 7 hours work! Wow!
Commander Spectre	Posted - 2006.12.15 04:54:00 - [307] Quote: Once you get your initial contact life gets a lot easier. It'll show up on the system map Ok this is a bit vague. I would like some more info about this... What does it look like on the map? What kind of systems do you find them in? 0.0? Low-sec? High Sec? Do they change locations after every downtime? Although the new system is better in some respects, I think there are way to many different types of probes to accomplish the same task. 4 types of senros probes with 4 types of ranges, that's 16 different probes plus the new mutispec ones. That's alot of money and crago space leaving me little or no room for ammo once I get there, let alone no room to carry any loot back. Especially if i'm using a covert ops as you recommended. IMO they should do away with all the different sensor types and just have the 4 range types. I have spent way too much money on this and haven't found anything.
Veto1024	Posted - 2006.12.15 05:06:00 - [308] Edited by: Veto1024 on 15/12/2006 05:09:25 Originally by: Commander Spectre Although the new system is better in some respects, I think there are way to many different types of probes to accomplish the same task. 4 types of senros probes with 4 types of ranges, that's 16 different probes plus the new mutispec ones. That's alot of money and crago space leaving me little or no room for ammo once I get there, let alone no room to carry any loot back. Especially if i'm using a covert ops as you recommended. IMO they should do away with all the different sensor types and just have the 4 range types. I have spent way too much money on this and haven't found anything. Bookmark it, it won't disappear And realistically, you'll need the 4AU/2AU/1AU/0.5AU in a ratio of like, 5/1/1/1 in your bay with some decent skills.
Bambi	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:00:00 - [309] the 'unknowns' I have found have been rouge drone areas, but saying that I haven't found that many.... [sig banned as it was just too damn good] Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. EVE-Log
Sir Emi Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.15 09:05:00 - [310] Here are my results so far: Found some datacores and a piece of a data interface I think... Several hours later, nothing more found, darn core plantes... Unknown seems to point to useless or depleted sites... Hope to build that data interface soon... Space Odyssey Maker...
Konshu	Posted - 2006.12.15 11:18:00 - [311] Edited by: Konshu on 15/12/2006 11:43:26 Nailed down 3 'unknowns' today. None were drone sites. 2 were small serp complexes with small asteroid belts(nothing of real interest). One was a small 'noob' complex. It has a huge sig compared to anything else i've found and only allowed frigs or rookie ships. All were in 0.5 to 0.7 systems. So much for 'unknown' being only drone. Also...after getting 'unknown' on the initial scans, I tracked each one with a different type of quest probe. I used mag, radar and grav. In each case, they zeroed in on the 'unknown' sig within a few scans. Just thought I'd share my meager findings
Lena Carebear	Posted - 2006.12.15 12:01:00 - [312] Originally by: Sir Emi Here are my results so far: Found some datacores and a piece of a data interface I think... Several hours later, nothing more found, darn core plantes... Unknown seems to point to useless or depleted sites... Hope to build that data interface soon... Let us know how the Deadspace looks were you found it .... that we knows when we inside that it is the right Complex ..... Thanks
Via Sacra	Posted - 2006.12.15 12:49:00 - [313] Edited by: Via Sacra on 15/12/2006 13:40:51 Edited by: Via Sacra on 15/12/2006 13:39:37 Edited by: Via Sacra on 15/12/2006 12:51:52 What could be more annoying than finding a complex, and you get the message 'server going down in 5 mins' gah! I just arrived at the warp gate when server closed. Will the complex still be there the next time I log in? or do they get moved/disappear? I'm unsure if the server really made my 'add bookmark' into it, as I clicked the button the same moment the client shut down! Gah edit: It still seems to be there. Screenshots so far: 'Unknown' Signature System Map - Scan result From Warp-in point I would guess that this does not have anything to do with the otherwise, normal 4/10 complex in system. Going to explore this one further, just going to get a more combat fitted ship than this buzzard ;)
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.15 18:42:00 - [314] Edited by: Plutoinum on 15/12/2006 19:00:03 uhm, there seem to be some insanely difficult to probe exploration sites. Took me a long time to get a result on this one. Finally I was 1 mil km close and used sift. First scan failed. Then it brought me 2000km +-x from the site, still no visual. next sift. now I'm 650km+-x from the site, still off-grid. Started another sift ... Yesterday I scanned another site and it took me only one intermediate step from using quests to landing right in the deadspace pocket. I didn't even have to use sifts. Extreme difference to this one. edit: but I like it, although this difficult site seems to be just a mining site with omber and kernite. If I don't find anything else, I give the BM to a random newbie. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.15 19:48:00 - [315] having a frustrating time got all planets and gates covered with 4au 6 hours of repeated scans and squat on the 4au no chance of using smaller ones i hope this grav plex is worth it These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
Di Jiensai Gallente Myster0ns	Posted - 2006.12.16 09:14:00 - [316] Hi, I am prety sure, of the following: Rat type is determined by area. Signature type is determined by content like this: - Radar : Hacking site - Magnetometric : combat (?) - Gravimetric : Archaeology (?) - Ladar : Mining (?) --- The Story of the Big-Bad-Nos-Domi and the Brutix Selfproclaimed last instance on Rightousness Issues
Baxslash	Posted - 2006.12.16 09:20:00 - [317] ok, this is the most stupidest thing I've ever done. The GM/Dev. who believed and created this type of scanning is unbeliebably dense, or, has his/her breain in backwards, never in my life have I used anything so obnoxiously hard to understand to use, let alone so absolutely useless in how the scans are revealed, IF!!!, and, I repeat, if the probes of real life were used ingame, then, the probes would be easy to use for ALL ppl, includeing new player. NOW!!!, here is how probes should work. 1:) the use of a Multispectral probe, with its extended range of 999 au would reveal all types in the system plus, a general location ofr all these possible targets 2:( Then comes the second probe, a probe thats after 1 paticular frequency type, which has a more varied scan range, 5-10 au, u'd warp close to said possible target by the way of the multi probe targeting, then use the second probe to get within .5-.1 au of the target u want 3:) Comes the finest probe, which brings u right in on ur target. How can u not use this type of way of the use of probes, but, no, instead, what the Devs and GMs do, they make the use of probes so extremely difficult, that, I bet, they can't even use them, EVEN with maxed skills, even if they made up advanced versions of these said skills, the types of scanning probes that these devs and gms built are a excuse to make the game so hard that only those players who have actually got intellegence quition of say 5000 can use them properly and effectively. So, here is my challenge, I want any Developer to PROVE with out question, that not only can they find any of these new exploration complexs, BUT!!!, to do it within 30 mins, and do it with the way they've set up the scanning probes as they are, AND!!!, absolutely NO CHEATING!!! but, guess what, no GM, or, Dev. will even dare to take this challenge, and the reason, is because, they know, that, its impossible. SO, its in ur court, to the Devs and GMs of CCP, PROVE IT!!!, or, remove it!! and, guess what, every one of u cowards will decline the challenge!!
Veto1024	Posted - 2006.12.16 09:47:00 - [318] Originally by: Baxslash How can u not use this type of way of the use of probes, but, no, instead, what the Devs and GMs do, they make the use of probes so extremely difficult, that, I bet, they can't even use them, EVEN with maxed skills, even if they made up advanced versions of these said skills, the types of scanning probes that these devs and gms built are a excuse to make the game so hard that only those players who have actually got intellegence quition of say 5000 can use them properly and effectively. I'm not THAT smart Seriously though, it is noooooooot that hard to do. I had scans going rather effectively after 3 days. Thank god the Devs put in new content that took more then 30 minutes to understand. Keeps away the kids.
Geor	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:44:00 - [319] Still a hell of a guide, thanks for the time to write it all down.
Lurtz Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers	Posted - 2006.12.16 18:27:00 - [320] Originally by: Baxslash NOW!!!, here is how probes should work. 1:) the use of a Multispectral probe, with its extended range of 999 au would reveal all types in the system plus, a general location ofr all these possible targets 2:( Then comes the second probe, a probe thats after 1 paticular frequency type, which has a more varied scan range, 5-10 au, u'd warp close to said possible target by the way of the multi probe targeting, then use the second probe to get within .5-.1 au of the target u want 3:) Comes the finest probe, which brings u right in on ur target. How can u not use this type of way of the use of probes, but, no, instead, what the Devs and GMs do, they make the use of probes so extremely difficult, that, I bet, they can't even use them, EVEN with maxed skills, even if they made up advanced versions of these said skills, the types of scanning probes that these devs and gms built are a excuse to make the game so hard that only those players who have actually got intellegence quition of say 5000 can use them properly and effectively. So, here is my challenge, I want any Developer to PROVE with out question, that not only can they find any of these new exploration complexs, BUT!!!, to do it within 30 mins, and do it with the way they've set up the scanning probes as they are, AND!!!, absolutely NO CHEATING!!! but, guess what, no GM, or, Dev. will even dare to take this challenge, and the reason, is because, they know, that, its impossible. SO, its in ur court, to the Devs and GMs of CCP, PROVE IT!!!, or, remove it!! and, guess what, every one of u cowards will decline the challenge!! Mostly that is exactly how it works. Except the multispec doesn't give any location info, just type to use or any if you get an unknown. I have found 4 complexes so far. All but 1 in under 2 hours (your 30 minute request is a bit silly IMHO) The 1 that took longer was actually the first I found with an actual type rather than unknown and was also the only 1 I needed to use a midrange probe on. All the others I warped to the point found in Quest probe, dropped a .5 au and got it dead on. Personally I think they have made it too easy, and would like it made harder to drive off some of the impatient players. (more for me)
Sunshine Sally	Posted - 2006.12.16 21:25:00 - [321] Okay, stupid question here. When you get a scan result from a quest probe for example, how do you know how accurate that result is? When I warp to the result is there any way to know how close I am to it and therefore which probe I need to use next? I see the coloured dots on the system map, but what do the different colours mean for each type of probe?
Ska Inni	Posted - 2006.12.16 22:50:00 - [322] Edited by: Ska Inni on 16/12/2006 22:51:26 Edited by: Ska Inni on 16/12/2006 22:50:47 Originally by: Sunshine Sally Okay, stupid question here. When you get a scan result from a quest probe for example, how do you know how accurate that result is? When I warp to the result is there any way to know how close I am to it and therefore which probe I need to use next? The scan results in the Scanner window have a column giving you the deviation. Use a probe that has a greater range than given and you'll be fine. Edit: And obviously a thanks for the fantastic guide!
Sunshine Sally	Posted - 2006.12.16 23:03:00 - [323] Originally by: Ska Inni Edited by: Ska Inni on 16/12/2006 22:51:26 Edited by: Ska Inni on 16/12/2006 22:50:47 Originally by: Sunshine Sally Okay, stupid question here. When you get a scan result from a quest probe for example, how do you know how accurate that result is? When I warp to the result is there any way to know how close I am to it and therefore which probe I need to use next? The scan results in the Scanner window have a column giving you the deviation. Use a probe that has a greater range than given and you'll be fine. Edit: And obviously a thanks for the fantastic guide! Ooo, methinks I may have had my scanner window too narrow and not seen that column! Thanks.
Eln Antlo	Posted - 2006.12.16 23:08:00 - [324] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Each site seems to have a set value for the "sig radius/sensor strength" ratio, generally between 0.1 and 0.2. If you do some calculations for ships you'll see that this is a pretty low number, equivalent to a ceptor with 200 or so sensor strength. Further, they each seem to have a particular type of probe that works best with them. Most Guristas sites I've found have been amenable to Gravimetric probes, which leads me to believe it's largely racial, but I've found one that required RADAR (more later). I got a dev response for a question that i had that says you can find "unknown"-signals with any racial probes, which i assume are the RADAR, LADAR, Magnetometric and Gravimetric Quest Probes.
Biltic Creen Minmatar Deutsche Minen und Werke Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.16 23:21:00 - [325] I found a drone-like complex named "Independence". There are lots and lots of structures, but no drones Anybody elese got something like this ? This post is not my personal opinion. It does represent the standpoint of every single player !
Veto1024	Posted - 2006.12.17 04:41:00 - [326] I don't get this, people kept saying that theres at least 1 complex per system but most the systems i go to don't have anything. Do multispecs work only some of the time or what?
Veetor Gallente Acme Manufacturing	Posted - 2006.12.17 06:38:00 - [327] wtf? I find a gravimetric sig with a multispec...chase it down with a gravimetric quest...warp to 0...launch comb...nothing....comb....nothing...quest....nothing....sift....nothing WTF???
Veto1024	Posted - 2006.12.17 07:09:00 - [328] Originally by: Veetor wtf? I find a gravimetric sig with a multispec...chase it down with a gravimetric quest...warp to 0...launch comb...nothing....comb....nothing...quest....nothing....sift....nothing WTF??? It can take a while... hope you did more then 1 sift and were mindful of the deviations
Veto1024	Posted - 2006.12.17 09:01:00 - [329] Edited by: Veto1024 on 17/12/2006 09:02:28 Well, i stumbled upon a deadspace.. pretty much empty, 5 empty leaking containers.. a ghost ship, spaceshuttle debris, drone post... expedition already done? ooo i got the message in chats "Rogue Drones are fickle creatures, little is known about them and explorers are advised to thread with care when encountering these machines." This must have already been done.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:03:00 - [330] New, slightly less cack exploration guide is here
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2006.12.17 14:24:00 - [331] Originally by: Baxslash So, here is my challenge, I want any Developer to PROVE with out question, that not only can they find any of these new exploration complexs, BUT!!!, to do it within 30 mins, and do it with the way they've set up the scanning probes as they are, AND!!!, absolutely NO CHEATING!!! but, guess what, no GM, or, Dev. will even dare to take this challenge, and the reason, is because, they know, that, its impossible. Sorry for destroying your dream off proving a DEV to be wrong, but I've found several Sites/Complexes under 30minutes so far. (And I'm no cheating DEV/GM :D) 00:00 Entered system, dropped Multi 00:15 Start Analyze 04:15 Result! Type: X 08:15 Spammed the whole system with Quests 12:15 No Result on Quests 16:15 ChaChing! 0.4AU away from it. 17:00 Quests detroyed that were in range so Sift dropped and Analyzing started. 21:00 Still 1000km away, gonna warp to it and use a new Sift from there. 22:00 New Sift is analyzing 26:00 ChaChing! 0km, warping to & having fun :) I didn't use "1 Try 1 Hit" so i could calc a more realistic (but still lucky) try. But it works and it works quite often in that way, although, when you find things this fast, normally they aren't that good in terms or reward (but there are some that are kinda nice). Skills: Covert-Ops: IV Signal Acq: III (IV tomorrow yay) Astro.Pinp: III Astro.Tria: III btw: Pinpoiting/Triangulation also have a decent role in this, cause only making your analyze process faster can give you quite in-accurate results with those 2 Skills at 0. (My Quests for example have 286 str. with a max of 1.4 Deviation if i remeber right, so with maxed skills, you should be able to find EVERY target under 1AU and don't have to carry around pursuits anymore) Cheers DNightmare
Commander Spectre	Posted - 2006.12.17 18:13:00 - [332] Well they could have made this whole process work better if the multispec could give you a warp point somewhere in the general area. I Have picked up a radar sig and launched a radar quest probe at every planet and scanned from each 6 or 8 times and not gotten anything. So now what? This costs me much more than it's worth in probes. Exploration sucks so far.
Jackson Murphy	Posted - 2006.12.17 19:32:00 - [333] Oh man i love Exploration right as it is. You can find sites with 500 millor more in it just when you have the pation to scan. For and it drives everybody away who thought he can make easy money from it. So you find it boring to scan with mulitple probes and you want it easy ? Ncie go back to your mind grinder Mission and let the exploration to the real Explorar mfg
Veto1024	Posted - 2006.12.17 19:45:00 - [334] Edited by: Veto1024 on 17/12/2006 20:01:57 Edited by: Veto1024 on 17/12/2006 19:51:19 Edited by: Veto1024 on 17/12/2006 19:45:19 Yah, considering i've heard people finding ABC ore spawns in high-sec, I don't think this exploration deal was meant to be easy. Then again, as I wrote this reply, I found another one haha. Word of advice guys, you know how for a lot of systems, the planets just don't orbit in such a way that you can spam 4AU's and pickup all the area surrounding every planet? Well, word of advice: Setup an initial spam of 4AU's and if you get nothing (even though you've gotten results with multispec) when all your probes expire, re-setup on planets you couldnt get due to range limitations. The one i just found I found by making a bookmark during warp which put me in a position to drop a probe in an area that allowed me to put a planet in range but out of the range of hte other probes. Guess where hte deadspace was? So you can either do 2 sets of scans or screw around with warping and trying to make accurate bookmarks in mid warp (not very easy for me). By the way, has anyone stumbled upon these one deadspaces where its like.. you warp into a place with an acceleration gate 60km out and a few npcs? Seems kinda strange because i keep running into this type... anyone gone to the gate? (I'm going to get a ship to go right now). It reads "Provisional Serpentis Outpost".... exploration site? no?
Atreides Horza	Posted - 2006.12.18 01:01:00 - [335] Can someone please confirm whether or not scanning probes can be picked up on the directional scanner as an indication that someone is looking for you? Or what?
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.18 01:17:00 - [336] Originally by: Atreides Horza Can someone please confirm whether or not scanning probes can be picked up on the directional scanner as an indication that someone is looking for you? Or what? Yes you can see them on the directional scanner (if you turned off filter by overview settings). ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.18 12:00:00 - [337] Update: The original posts are now updated with the correct range formula as discovered by Daron. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
storm2k5	Posted - 2006.12.18 16:17:00 - [338] Originally by: DNightmare Originally by: Baxslash So, here is my challenge, I want any Developer to PROVE with out question, that not only can they find any of these new exploration complexs, BUT!!!, to do it within 30 mins, and do it with the way they've set up the scanning probes as they are, AND!!!, absolutely NO CHEATING!!! but, guess what, no GM, or, Dev. will even dare to take this challenge, and the reason, is because, they know, that, its impossible. Sorry for destroying your dream off proving a DEV to be wrong, but I've found several Sites/Complexes under 30minutes so far. (And I'm no cheating DEV/GM :D) 00:00 Entered system, dropped Multi 00:15 Start Analyze 04:15 Result! Type: X 08:15 Spammed the whole system with Quests 12:15 No Result on Quests 16:15 ChaChing! 0.4AU away from it. 17:00 Quests detroyed that were in range so Sift dropped and Analyzing started. 21:00 Still 1000km away, gonna warp to it and use a new Sift from there. 22:00 New Sift is analyzing 26:00 ChaChing! 0km, warping to & having fun :) I didn't use "1 Try 1 Hit" so i could calc a more realistic (but still lucky) try. But it works and it works quite often in that way, although, when you find things this fast, normally they aren't that good in terms or reward (but there are some that are kinda nice). Skills: Covert-Ops: IV Signal Acq: III (IV tomorrow yay) Astro.Pinp: III Astro.Tria: III btw: Pinpoiting/Triangulation also have a decent role in this, cause only making your analyze process faster can give you quite in-accurate results with those 2 Skills at 0. (My Quests for example have 286 str. with a max of 1.4 Deviation if i remeber right, so with maxed skills, you should be able to find EVERY target under 1AU and don't have to carry around pursuits anymore) Cheers DNightmare I'd say it's just a matter of luck. It took me 3 days to get a first result with Quest probes from a "Unknown" signature. The first 2 days I scanned like 20 times each without luck, on my 2nd try on the 3rd day I was lucky and found the sig. Then, it took my only 10 minutes and one comb/ one sift probe to pin it down to 0km. Very nice deadspace complex btw, my Megathron died in the 2nd stage ;)
Estan Drake Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.12.19 08:26:00 - [339] Originally by: Baxslash ok, this is the most stupidest thing I've ever done. The GM/Dev. who believed and created this type of scanning is unbeliebably dense, or, has his/her breain in backwards, never in my life have I used anything so obnoxiously hard to understand to use, let alone so absolutely useless in how the scans are revealed, IF!!!, and, I repeat, if the probes of real life were used ingame, then, the probes would be easy to use for ALL ppl, includeing new player. NOW!!!, here is how probes should work. 1:) the use of a Multispectral probe, with its extended range of 999 au would reveal all types in the system plus, a general location ofr all these possible targets 2:( Then comes the second probe, a probe thats after 1 paticular frequency type, which has a more varied scan range, 5-10 au, u'd warp close to said possible target by the way of the multi probe targeting, then use the second probe to get within .5-.1 au of the target u want 3:) Comes the finest probe, which brings u right in on ur target. How can u not use this type of way of the use of probes, but, no, instead, what the Devs and GMs do, they make the use of probes so extremely difficult, that, I bet, they can't even use them, EVEN with maxed skills, even if they made up advanced versions of these said skills, the types of scanning probes that these devs and gms built are a excuse to make the game so hard that only those players who have actually got intellegence quition of say 5000 can use them properly and effectively. So, here is my challenge, I want any Developer to PROVE with out question, that not only can they find any of these new exploration complexs, BUT!!!, to do it within 30 mins, and do it with the way they've set up the scanning probes as they are, AND!!!, absolutely NO CHEATING!!! but, guess what, no GM, or, Dev. will even dare to take this challenge, and the reason, is because, they know, that, its impossible. SO, its in ur court, to the Devs and GMs of CCP, PROVE IT!!!, or, remove it!! and, guess what, every one of u cowards will decline the challenge!! Well this is obviously not worth your time- ergo- not worth anyone's time. Come on people pack it in. Baxslash can't do it quickly and on the first try, it obviously a Dev conspiracy designed to foil him. Also means we are all doomed to eternal failure even if we have a modicum of patience... Heres a tip- Get your skills up and put a little more effort into it. I may have been lucky, and it sure as heck wasn't anywhere near my first deadspace return, but I have found multiple deadspaces in under 30 minutes. Besides, you do not want the ones that you find in under 30 minutes... they are usually the junk ones
Estan Drake Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.12.19 08:28:00 - [340] Originally by: Jackson Murphy Oh man i love Exploration right as it is. You can find sites with 500 millor more in it just when you have the pation to scan. For and it drives everybody away who thought he can make easy money from it. So you find it boring to scan with mulitple probes and you want it easy ? Ncie go back to your mind grinder Mission and let the exploration to the real Explorar mfg SHHHHHHH!!! (Don't give em false hope)
Veetor Gallente Acme Manufacturing	Posted - 2006.12.20 06:38:00 - [341] Ok I like exploration now. :) The flashing neon sign that says ENJOY was a nice touch CCP
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.12.20 17:27:00 - [342] Quote: A: The results are still inconclusive but initial tests seems to indicate the effective signal strength of a target inside a deadspace area (this includes sitting at the gate leading into it) is cut to 1/100 of its normal value. I've been trying to get a handle on why people have such varying success rates with deadspace scanning since the patch. Any more ideas on this, or is it just a matter of dumb luck? One thing that occurred to me last night when I was mission running...is it possible that the possible max range at which deadspaces spawn was increased as well? I was getting multiple mission sites spawning at 12-18au from any celestial, whereas I seem to remember that being a rare occurrence right after Rev. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Blind Picard	Posted - 2006.12.21 12:45:00 - [343] Today i made a gang with my alt wich was running a mission. I warped to my alt raven and i made a safespot near him , under 1AU. After that i leaved gang with my scanner alt and i tried to scan my raven wich as i said it was under 1 au. I tried at least 20 times and nothing. Please Tuxx or another developer , read this and ballance this scanning system, at least in 0.0 systems. Maybe i wrong but where is the risk of a 0.0 system for this mission runners?
Drake Doon Minmatar X.E.N.O. Breidablik	Posted - 2006.12.22 21:42:00 - [344] Originally by: Hoshi Edited by: Hoshi on 15/12/2006 10:24:27 You can also see the results on the system map as colored dots. The color indicate the Signal strength. 0-0.4 = yellow 0.4-0.8 = green 0.8+ = red You can warp to the results by right click on them and choose warp to. Hoshi, GREAT READ! Are you sure the signal strength/color is correct? It differs from what TomBs post on Improved Scanning indicates.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2006.12.22 23:24:00 - [345] Originally by: Drake Doon Are you sure the signal strength/color is correct? It differs from what TomBs post on Improved Scanning indicates. I know it differs but I also know my list is correct. At least unless something has changed in the last 48h on both TQ and SiSi. What TomB wrote was probably what was intended but I would guess they made a mistake in the implementation. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Liluiminato	Posted - 2006.12.26 18:15:00 - [346] CCP have cut down the deviation for all ship scan probes, including my lovely Deep Space Observator.... How now we can make a Deep Out Of a System Save Spots???? Using exploration probes with it's 4au deviation is ridiculous :(
ArrrrJimLad Caldari PezCo - Ice Services United Connection's	Posted - 2006.12.28 11:35:00 - [347] Hi Hoshi, fantastic guide you've put together there mate. Quote: The full formula to calculate Signal Strength is: Signal Strength = (Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) / 100) * (e^-((Target Range / Max Range)^2)) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength) A math example: we are using a Ferret 40 au probe to try to locate a Scorpion 35 au away. We have Signal Acquisition level 3. Signal Strength = (2.5 * (1 + 3*0.1) / 100) * (e^-((35/40)^2)) * (480 / 24) = 0.302 or 30.2% chance it will show up on our scan. However, I just wanted to point out that in your original post the example for signal strength doesn't match the formula you stated... (see the bold text in the quote for mini-spot the difference competition ) Otherwise, nice work! _________________ A single twig breaks, but the bundle of twigs is strong.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2006.12.28 14:46:00 - [348] Originally by: ArrrrJimLad However, I just wanted to point out that in your original post the example for signal strength doesn't match the formula you stated... (see the bold text in the quote for mini-spot the difference competition ) Otherwise, nice work! Opps :=) Thank you fixed now. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
hyundra04 Minmatar Zulu Warrior Tribe	Posted - 2007.01.01 20:11:00 - [349] hi there just a quick post to say i have created a new channel as an overflow to the EXPORATION in game channel. (EVE EXPLORATION) this is a temporary channel untill the owner of the original channel is found, and settings can be changed to accept more than 50 players. hope you dont mind this post 0/ EVE EXPLORATION
Drake Doon Minmatar X.E.N.O. Breidablik	Posted - 2007.01.05 18:59:00 - [350] Again, great work Hoshi. I frequently visit this thread. May I suggest highlighting your edits somehow so it's easier to see what you've updated? One more for you. Your signal strength formula has a constant of 0.05 that changed to 0.1 in the example. What causes this change? Originally by: Hoshi Signal Strength The full formula to calculate Signal Strength is: Signal Strength = (Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) / 100) * (e^-((Target Range / Max Range)^2)) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength) A math example: we are using a Ferret 40 au probe to try to locate a Scorpion 35 au away. We have Astrometric Triangulation level 3. Signal Strength = (2.5 * (1 + 30.1) / 100) (e^-((35/40)^2)) * (480 / 24) = 0.302 or 30.2% chance it will show up on our scan.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.01.05 19:10:00 - [351] Originally by: Drake Doon Again, great work Hoshi. I frequently visit this thread. May I suggest highlighting your edits somehow so it's easier to see what you've updated? One more for you. Your signal strength formula has a constant of 0.05 that changed to 0.1 in the example. What causes this change? Opps more errors :) As for the highlighting, I have hit the char limit in several of the posts so to do something like that I would need to restructure the whole guide. Not going to happen anytime soon sorry. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Drake Doon Minmatar X.E.N.O. Breidablik	Posted - 2007.01.05 19:15:00 - [352] Originally by: Hoshi I have hit the char limit Damn them limits all to hell!
Drake Doon Minmatar X.E.N.O. Breidablik	Posted - 2007.01.05 19:24:00 - [353] Originally by: Hoshi Edited by: Hoshi on 05/01/2007 19:07:35 Accuracy Max effective Scan Deviation = 10000 * ((0.6 * (0.267 ^ 2)) - (1.6 * 0.304) + 1) * (1 - 3 * 0.1) = 4305km. So each successful scan will give a random accuracy between 0km and 4305km. This means there is a 12.5% chance you will get a result in the same grid as the target. Missed one. And I meant to ask this one too. What are you using to get the 12.5%?
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.01.05 22:51:00 - [354] Originally by: Drake Doon Missed one. And I meant to ask this one too. What are you using to get the 12.5%? You have to land within 500km to be in same grind (more or less depends on where in the grid he is but on avg, can be more or less but from a chance based view it evens out and with can say 500km always). 500 = 12.5% of 4000 so that is the chance that the scan will land you close enough. Guess I should edit it to 11.5% now with the changed math. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Erinna Zarx	Posted - 2007.01.06 12:50:00 - [355] A rat poped up in my Dead Space mission yesterday, using recon prob, he said it took him around 20 min. My questions are, was he really lucky? Would an ECCM would make it virtualy impossible to find me? (was missioning with a Dominix) Did I miss something in the guide explaning how to find a Deep SPace? Q: What effect did the latest patch have on scanning for mission runners? A: The results are still inconclusive but initial tests seems to indicate the effective signal strength of a target inside a deadspace area (this includes sitting at the gate leading into it) is cut to 1/100 of its normal value. This makes any deadspace mission outside the range of exploration probes for all intent and purpose impossible to probe. You will only find it through sheer luck.
Pakokkie Caldari Under Heavy Fire	Posted - 2007.01.09 12:25:00 - [356] Edited by: Pakokkie on 09/01/2007 12:23:05 Edited by: Pakokkie on 09/01/2007 12:22:21 probing, more fun I have been testing probes in low sec to get into plexes of mission runners Easy enough after the last patch. You just need to know what to look for ;-P Deep space probe is the answer or the ferret. So, mission runners are still easy to get........ Mission runners are still easy targets..
Grenen Re	Posted - 2007.01.09 22:08:00 - [357] Edited by: Grenen Re on 09/01/2007 22:09:37 thanks for the guide hoshi, this really helps. i too personally would like to see rarer finds with bigger rewards... but as this is new content and my experience with this is minimal, it could be possible that soemthing really badass hasnt been found just yet. but i could understand a need to keep it at a certain level for the aspect of keeping the game balanced. as far as the need for finding things faster, eve is for a sure a game of patience. i mean... look at the skill system. if you are playing this for a quick fix and superfast action you are not playing the right game. but in groups tasks can be accomplished much faster and with less risk... which brings me to my question. i havent been able to try this out yet because i dont really get the chance to play this game as much as i'd like... [i'm reading up at work while i have downtime] but to speed up the exploration process, couldnt you just form a gang of covert ops? and when someone finds good results just all warp to that location and keep probing? seems to me like that would work out a little better. especially if it's based on chance... it's like buying more raffle tickets upping your chance of getting a number you have called. it seems to me like if you can find empty plex's that someone else found that you could as a group search a system for the same target. would this work? or is each find based per pilot and not like a global instance? edit: i didnt read the explore guide yet, if this is a redundant or silly question i apologize, i'll kill this if i find the answer there.
Tarn Krimbell	Posted - 2007.01.11 09:17:00 - [358] Thanks the Gods I found your post, Hoshi! I checked out several other threads with outdated info that just confused the hell out of me. I was getting incresingly frustrated at the time, effort and ISK spent on my seemingly 'useless' probe gear. Your guide is fantastic and has given me my first probe success!
GRIMREAPER 01	Posted - 2007.01.14 01:56:00 - [359] is it possable to find ships of people who have logged beacuse i have serched and can never find anybody even with a probe but i see there ship on the directional scanner and even got there ship within 100,000,000km useing the directional scanner and still couldent get them with my probe and the ship should be within my probe range
Siggur	Posted - 2007.01.14 22:00:00 - [360] I've seen that your signal output is like 1/100th when you're in deadspace - meaning you're much less likely to be found on a deadspace mission (It might have been early on in the thread actually).. Is that true? If it is true, does anyone know if it's true for exploration sites? Or for deadspace sites found via exploration?
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:57:00 - [361] Having read through the guide in E-ON I have found no major error, just 2-3 small so I am not going to bother doing an errata. What I will do is post the last chapter of the guide that was cut out due to space limitation. It's about avoiding being found by probes. From the eyes of the victim In the name of fairness, I must give some tips to potential probe targets on how to avoid being found. The most powerful defence is the cloak as if you are cloaked, you can not be found. There have been some indications that this might change in the future but at the time of writing this holds true. You can also fit ECCM as increasing your sensor strength makes you a smaller target for probes. This will not stop people from finding you but it can delay them considerably. You can use your Directional Scanner to check if there are probes nearby. It will show probes if set to not filter by overview. If you see the probes on the scanner, you know someone is looking for you and you should start moving. You are going to need to check the scanner often; if itÆs a skilled hunter with both plentiful experience and many skill points in probe skills, the probes will only show up on your scanner for around 30-40 seconds. ItÆs also possible that you might catch his ship uncloaked as he needs to drop the cloak to launch probes and start scans. Be a moving target If your ship has a micro warp drive and you can run it constantly a good defence is to just point yourself straight up or down and activate the MWD. While you wonÆt be harder to find, it wonÆt matter because once the hunter gets to the position returned by the probes, you are already far away. Just donÆt go afk doing this; it is possible that their group will include an even faster ship than yours that can overtake you if given enough time. ItÆs also possible they might warp in a battleship and snipe you before you get out of range. Another tactic to avoid being caught is to keep warping around between safe spots. This used to be an almost 100% sure safe tactic but with the new ultra short scan times, itÆs possible they might catch one of your safes just after you've left and then just sit there and wait until the next time you return to it. *poof* Finally, we have the controversial but highly effective option to log off. Just make sure you donÆt have an aggression timer when you log off. This timer is invisible and is started when the last offensive action from you against someone else or someone else against you happened, essentially the last PvP action you were involved in. If you log off during that 15 minute long aggression timer, your ship will stay in space for another 15 minutes, which gives your hunters plenty of time to find and kill you. If you did not have an aggression timer, your ship will disappear after just 1 minute, which is almost certainly too short to both find and kill you. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Ishan Shade	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:38:00 - [362] Edited by: Ishan Shade on 16/01/2007 13:42:11 Nice guide Hoshi. In your last post however you state that the log-off timer is 1 minute for unagressed ships. This is however 2 minutes. Still I can say from experience that it is very hard to find and kill the logged off person within that time. (basicly you have to have your prober there the moment the guy logs off, or you have no chance) On the other hand thanks to your formulas I have seem to found the trick in probing people in dead space complexes. I'm not going to tell you how, (maybe someone already did but I cba to read all the pages) since it could possible lead to even more nerfage, but I can find people pretty reliably in deadspace these days, partly thanks to your guide :D so carebears be warned!
JJ McHawker	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:26:00 - [363] Hi all.. just started investigating probes a day or so ago, and this guide has provided an invaluable insight into the techniques and skills to train - great work Hoshi and the other contributors! My experiments so far have yielded nothing more than a selection of ships and drones in my home system. Mostly, the ships I picked up were abandoned shuttles and players going about their business - they were outside stations and near gates. I found numerous sets of drones - sometimes, the odd lone one; more often 3-5 in a bunch. (I am now self-sufficient in Hammerheads for a while!). With regard to people wanting to find mission runners and wrecks, it seems the drones may be a valuable clue.. a couple of sets of drones I found were abandoned next to 20-30 wrecks, while another set seemed (from the scan results; I didn't go there) to be at the same range as a small gaggle of ships. My point is, maybe CCP nerfed the sensor/scan strength of ships in complexes but forgot to do drones?? It seems a shame that scanning for wrecks doesn't work, as I could see that being a scrap merchant in one of the popular missions systems could be a fairly profitable pastime. JJ Peace Out
JJ McHawker	Posted - 2007.01.20 00:41:00 - [364] Tonight I have continued to experiment with Probes in my home system (which has no Exploration sites), puting some of the theory from the guide into play. I used only Quest drones, and pretty randomly selected a race. Once again, I found only uninteresting Ships and lots more Drones - I collected about 50 drones in total; pretty much the entire range of small & meds and even some heavies and T2. Again, warping to some of the drones also netted me a few wrecks and salvage. However, having "walked" further away into deadspace, I then found a set of drones that instead led to a jumpgate when warped-to. I found 5 in total, all of which led to apparently incomplete multi-room missions, with empty rooms (occasional wreckage from Battlships and the like). On a couple of occasions, I did catch up with the person / people doing the mission. So, it seems it is possible to find people out doing missions, although I'm not sure how useable this is. Certainly, the agent mission rooms are temporary ones. JJ
marcouk2 Gallente Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.20 14:59:00 - [365] Originally by: Hoshi Be a moving target If your ship has a micro warp drive and you can run it constantly a good defence is to just point yourself straight up or down and activate the MWD. While you wonÆt be harder to find, it wonÆt matter because once the hunter gets to the position returned by the probes, you are already far away. Just donÆt go afk doing this; it is possible that their group will include an even faster ship than yours that can overtake you if given enough time. ItÆs also possible they might warp in a battleship and snipe you before you get out of range. Just note that the corresponding increase in your sig radius does make it a fair bit easier for probes to detect you and give a greater accuracy for probe results. for ex. i can frequently get 0m results on frigs with the longer range probes.
Dillon Arklight Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.22 09:22:00 - [366] Originally by: Siggur I've seen that your signal output is like 1/100th when you're in deadspace - meaning you're much less likely to be found on a deadspace mission (It might have been early on in the thread actually).. Is that true? If it is true, does anyone know if it's true for exploration sites? Or for deadspace sites found via exploration? Its seems this is true. For the last few hours ive been scanning down mission runners and despite being well under 5au and looking for ships ranging from tech 1 frigates to logistic ships i havent found a single one except for the rare times when i do get a hit its usually from their drones. Any ideas why CCP would reduce the chances of missions runners being found? It seems like a contradiction to the whole scanning system.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:12:00 - [367] It's almost certainly because of the potential for straightforward grief play. For example, in missions which require you to pick up a certain item from a destroyed ship, there exists the potential for someone to probe the player down, chase them out of the mission area and then steal the item themselves, thus screwing over the mission-runner without firing a shot and bypassing all the punishment mechanisms.
Kirex Gallente Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 03:48:00 - [368] What does cycle time on both of the launchers mean? The time it takes until you can launch a new probe? Click above for my killboard stats.
Dillon Arklight Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.23 08:42:00 - [369] Originally by: Joerd Toastius It's almost certainly because of the potential for straightforward grief play. For example, in missions which require you to pick up a certain item from a destroyed ship, there exists the potential for someone to probe the player down, chase them out of the mission area and then steal the item themselves, thus screwing over the mission-runner without firing a shot and bypassing all the punishment mechanisms. How can they chase them out without firing a shot? And if they take from a wreck not belonging to them the lawful owner will have kill rights. I just dont see why mission runners should be practically immune to scan probes.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:07:00 - [370] Originally by: Kirex What does cycle time on both of the launchers mean? The time it takes until you can launch a new probe? There's two sets of timer on each launcher, but I can't remember which is which. The short one is the delay until you can either launch another probe or start analysing (2.5s on Recon, 15s on SPL1), and is fixed. The long one is the base time it takes to analyse (2min recon, 10min spl), and can be reduced by skills and bonuses Originally by: Dillon Arklight Originally by: Joerd Toastius It's almost certainly because of the potential for straightforward grief play. For example, in missions which require you to pick up a certain item from a destroyed ship, there exists the potential for someone to probe the player down, chase them out of the mission area and then steal the item themselves, thus screwing over the mission-runner without firing a shot and bypassing all the punishment mechanisms. How can they chase them out without firing a shot? And if they take from a wreck not belonging to them the lawful owner will have kill rights. I just dont see why mission runners should be practically immune to scan probes. In lowsec missions, if someone finds you it's generally sensible to run first and ask questions later, and by the time you get back he's taken the item and moved to a new system. I'm not saying it's perfect, I'm just saying I think that's why CCP did it.
Yseult Atreus	Posted - 2007.01.25 17:08:00 - [371] Anyone know what it's possible to get the (exploration) probe scan time down to?
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.01.25 17:21:00 - [372] Originally by: Yseult Atreus Anyone know what it's possible to get the (exploration) probe scan time down to? Slightly over 2 minutes with covert ops 5, sig analysis 5 and 2 scan speed rigs. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Yseult Atreus	Posted - 2007.01.25 17:32:00 - [373] Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Yseult Atreus Anyone know what it's possible to get the (exploration) probe scan time down to? Slightly over 2 minutes with covert ops 5, sig analysis 5 and 2 scan speed rigs. Cheers Hoshi. that with the T2 rigs?
Shaded Fury Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:11:00 - [374] Applause 4 much informational value in this forum. I have one question that I did not see addressed however. Scanning Deadspace Complexs for the NPC's themselves. People enjoy griefing/hoarding/incorrectly running the complexs. Since the last major patch the complexs can no longer be scanned using the directional scanner to see if it is ready or close to being ready. Is there a work-around for this problem using probes. Thanx in again for ur work in this field.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.02.01 10:51:00 - [375] No, basically
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.02.02 11:31:00 - [376] Originally by: Hoshi If your ship has a micro warp drive and you can run it constantly a good defence is to just point yourself straight up or down and activate the MWD. Don't overuse this tatic. With it now possible to gang warp on probe returns it's possible to slingshot a minmatar recon into web range. Also anything cruiser size or above with a MWD running the chances of getting a WTZ return off of 40/1000AU probes is quite high.
Snow Chainz	Posted - 2007.02.02 23:31:00 - [377] Question: Can I scan in one ship, find a target, dock and get in another ship, and then still use the results to warp to the target?
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.02.03 02:39:00 - [378] no. Have to go the the scan result BM the spot then switch ships.
Behedwin RSP Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.04 18:12:00 - [379] i did not understand the multiple probes thing... how can i launch two probes that is in range of one targets without having one of the probes being inside the other probes scanning range so they overlap?
GammaDriver Caldari Lemmings Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:46:00 - [380] Originally by: Behedwin i did not understand the multiple probes thing... how can i launch two probes that is in range of one targets without having one of the probes being inside the other probes scanning range so they overlap? I'm not positive, but it seems that the probe, itself, can't be within the scan range of another probe - however, their ranges CAN overlap (just not over a probe).
Yseult Atreus	Posted - 2007.02.05 15:16:00 - [381] Draw a circle. The centre of the circle is the probe, the circumference of the circle shows the probe's scan range. Draw another circle, representing a second probe. The centre of the second circle cannot be within the circumference of the first circle but, as long as this proviso is met, the circles (scan ranges) CAN overlap.
Behedwin RSP Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.16 05:49:00 - [382] I it posseble to use explorations probes to find player ships? Sure the scan time is longer and flight time to... But the multispectral frequency probe have 1mil points scan strength and 999 au range compared to the observator deep space probe that have 1 pont scan strength and 1000au range. Or have i missunderstod the hole thing?
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.02.16 12:29:00 - [383] Originally by: Behedwin I it posseble to use explorations probes to find player ships? Sure the scan time is longer and flight time to... But the multispectral frequency probe have 1mil points scan strength and 999 au range compared to the observator deep space probe that have 1 pont scan strength and 1000au range. Or have i missunderstod the hole thing? Multispectral probe can not be used for finding ships, it only returns exploration sites and it only returns the fact that there is one is system or not, it doesn't give location so it would be mostly meaningless anyway. The other exploration probes can be used but they have as you say much longer scan time and very short range. Unless you are looking for a mission runner in a deadspace area which is located less than 3-4 au away they are not really useful. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Dirty Rider	Posted - 2007.02.18 15:23:00 - [384] First off, great walk-through have learnd alot second, thanks to all that have posted with even more ussfull infomation. finaly, the question--> how do i find my lost secure cargo containers along with some random small deployable warp disrupers? ccp apparalnly waxed my bookmarks for some of the items listed above, and i want them back. any help would be most appircated, even if i cant spell it
Yseult Atreus	Posted - 2007.02.19 14:27:00 - [385] Originally by: Dirty Rider Edited by: Dirty Rider on 18/02/2007 15:28:01 First off, great walk-through have learnd alot second, thanks to all that have posted with even more ussfull infomation. finaly, the question--> how do i find my lost secure cargo containers along with some random small deployable warp disrupers? ccp apparalnly waxed my bookmarks for some of the items listed above, and i want them back. any help would be most appircated, even if i cant spell it Also, consering probe overlaping? now i know my probes can not be seen by each other, but say i have a wing man with me and we both launch 1 4au probe each? what happens? world implode?....lol :P thanks agian It's only your own probes that can't overlap. Your wingman's probe will sit happily right alongside yours If this wasn't so it would be posssible to close several systems to exploration by jumping between them spamming multispecs.
Dirty Rider	Posted - 2007.02.21 00:03:00 - [386] Ok thats cool with the probes, but my main quetion still stands. Is it possibal to find my MIA secure cargo containers with scan probes or do i have to contuine to just make random bookmarks hoping to get lucky and find themm agian Again thank you Yseult Atreus for your timely awnser
Krenshaw Universal Parcel Service	Posted - 2007.02.21 08:38:00 - [387] The info posts gave me enough info to get started in exploration right away. Well done. Now to the hard stuff. On of the sites I found has 6 Circle Constructs and several of the non interactive wreck like spaceshuttle w/debris partisle accelerators and such. It appears to have a green cloud with it but it does not show as a harvestable cloud and no way to select it. No NPCs or gates. Anyone have an idea of what to do? The constructs show wanted so I destroyed one but it left no wreck or container. Took about 2500 tech 2 cruisys to destroy it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks What for centuries raised man above the beast is not the cudgel but the irresistible power of unarmed truth...B. Pasternak
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.02.21 16:01:00 - [388] Originally by: Dirty Rider Ok thats cool with the probes, but my main quetion still stands. Is it possibal to find my MIA secure cargo containers with scan probes or do i have to contuine to just make random bookmarks hoping to get lucky and find themm agian Again thank you Yseult Atreus for your timely awnser No you can not find cans with probes. Only thing I can suggest is to send in a petition and pray. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Dirty Rider	Posted - 2007.02.22 01:23:00 - [389] Bummer, well I tryed anyway, thanks agian Hoshi for a most insightfull guide, and for the the others that post very usefull NfO Im off to pray now, and if that dont work ill maybe send in a refund petition for the cost of cans and ammo Cheers beers ppls
Car Wars adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.25 11:24:00 - [390] I have a question concerning ship results that maybe at a POS. What do you guys normally do? warp in @ 100km to check first. And then warp in closer if it turns out not to be at a POS?
William Strider	Posted - 2007.02.27 06:12:00 - [391] It is NOW possible to find cloaked ships with probes right? Can someone please verify this and how is this done? Thanks.
Sylaan Caldari Rakeriku Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2007.02.27 10:38:00 - [392] It's not possible.
Alystra Swift	Posted - 2007.02.28 21:22:00 - [393] Edited by: Alystra Swift on 28/02/2007 21:20:42 First, thank you for a well written and kept up-to-date guide. :) Now for my questions: Originally by: Hoshi Range Multiplier = e^-((Target Range / Max Range)^2) In this formula what does "e" stand for? Sorry if I should know this from my old math classes but it isn't coming to me. And, has anyone figured out the formula to reverse engineer the target signal strength of a exploration site. Sorry again, but it has been way too long since I was in math classes to do this myself. One more thing, that is e raised to the power of negavitve ((target range/max range) raised to the power of 2) correct? Thanks for any help, Aly
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.01 13:46:00 - [394] e is the base of the natural logarithm. ln(e^x)=x Like Pi it has an unlimited amount of decimals but is approximately equal to 2.718 And yes last line would be the correct way of saying it with words yes. Maybe I should have added another set of () to make it clearer. The Signal Size of the target site should be: Signal Size = Signal Strength / ((Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) / 100) * (e^-((Target Range / Max Range)^2))) Signal Strength here is the value returned by your scan. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Alystra Swift	Posted - 2007.03.01 20:40:00 - [395] Thank you much Hoshi. :)
JJ McHawker	Posted - 2007.03.05 18:51:00 - [396] Originally by: Hoshi ..when kali first came live on sisi one of the scan groups was named Containers and could be used to scan for cans. Now that group is named Scrap and seems to find nothing. Cans (both jet cans and anchored) don't even show up on the directional scanner anymore. Has anyone found a wreck by scanning yet, or indeed anything as a result of including the Scrap group? Since reading this guide some weeks ago, I've been using probes to do "scavenging" - setting up an array of probes* to locate abandoned drones, mainly. Occasionally when I reach a pack of drones, they will be surrounded by wrecks which yield salvage, but those weren't found by the scan. *2007.02.24.17.45.23.jpg (1680x1050 653K) I'm wondering whether to abandon all hope of finding anything with that group. As I only have Astrometrics to IV, I'd rather include Cosmic Sigs in the hope of stumbling onto an Exploration site. Thoughts? Cheers, JJ
JJ McHawker	Posted - 2007.03.05 18:51:00 - [397] Originally by: Hoshi ..when kali first came live on sisi one of the scan groups was named Containers and could be used to scan for cans. Now that group is named Scrap and seems to find nothing. Cans (both jet cans and anchored) don't even show up on the directional scanner anymore. Has anyone found a wreck by scanning yet, or indeed anything as a result of including the Scrap group? Since reading this guide some weeks ago, I've been using probes to do "scavenging" - setting up an array of probes* to locate abandoned drones, mainly. Occasionally when I reach a pack of drones, they will be surrounded by wrecks which yield salvage, but those weren't found by the scan. *2007.02.24.17.45.23.jpg (1680x1050 653K) I'm wondering whether to abandon all hope of finding anything with that group. As I only have Astrometrics to IV, I'd rather include Cosmic Sigs in the hope of stumbling onto an Exploration site. Thoughts? Cheers, JJ
Giacomo Lutz Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.06 17:25:00 - [398] Just a thanks for writing this. Very useful.
Barbarellas Daughter Lonely Barbarella	Posted - 2007.03.07 04:30:00 - [399] Did someone already say sthg about scanning logged pilots? I tried it with an alt. I got a result, but when i warped there the ship was already gone. Is it possible at all? What scan time do u need to do it? What should i be aware of?
shebeich	Posted - 2007.03.12 07:27:00 - [400] Hi I have found a Huge silvery white staligmite with my scanning it was comming up as an unknown what do we do with it other than min the mins around it?.
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2007.03.14 12:02:00 - [401] Originally by: Car Wars I have a question concerning ship results that maybe at a POS. What do you guys normally do? warp in @ 100km to check first. And then warp in closer if it turns out not to be at a POS? Have an overview preset with nothing but planets and gates. Once you get your result load that preset and compare the result distance with all the planets distance. If any of them match then do a 5 degree scan towards that planet/gate and see if the ship shows on scan. If so then he's probably at that object. ----- My sparkly tinfoil hat is extremely distracting, and makes my eyes bleed. -Conuion Meow ([email protected]) Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Actually... no, it was teh sig. I'm wearing tinfoil goggles already. -Teh Meow
eatingyak Fleet Of Elite The OSS	Posted - 2007.03.19 01:54:00 - [402] Edited by: eatingyak on 19/03/2007 01:52:24 Quote: Other ships that are useful for probing is the cloaking force recon ships for the warp cloaked ability ... I have heard people say force recon ships cannot use Covert Ops Cloak II for cloaked warping?
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.19 11:26:00 - [403] Originally by: eatingyak Edited by: eatingyak on 19/03/2007 01:52:24 Quote: Other ships that are useful for probing is the cloaking force recon ships for the warp cloaked ability ... I have heard people say force recon ships cannot use Covert Ops Cloak II for cloaked warping? Each race has 2 Recon Ships, one that is called a Combat Recon (Curse, Rook, Lachesis, Huginn) and one that is called a Force Recon (Pilgrim, Falcon, Arazu, Rapier). The Force recon ships can fit and use and warp cloaked with a Covert Ops Cloak, the Combat recon ships can not. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Alystra Swift	Posted - 2007.03.22 14:48:00 - [404] Edited by: Alystra Swift on 22/03/2007 14:44:47 Ok, I have just now started messing with the formula for calculating the Target Signal Strength from the Signal Strength that is returned in the scanner result and I have run into a mathmatical question on the formula. In this formula: Signal Size = Signal Strength / ((Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) / 100) * (e^-((Target Range / Max Range)^2))) The calculation that involves your skill level is where I am confused: (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) / 100). Should I be adding 1 to the level of Astro Tri first then doing the rest of the formula or should I be taking my skill level times 0.05/100 first then adding 1? Thanks again
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.22 20:21:00 - [405] The /100 is not really part of the skill level modifier. It's supposed to read more like: (Probe strength * skill mod)/100 * normally have priority over / but most of the time in math it doesn't really matter in which order you multiply and divide stuff. Skill mod here would then be equal to (1 + skill level * 0.05) which if you have level 4 would be equal to (1 + 4 * 0.05) = (1 + 0.2) = 1.2 as * have priority over +. So if probe strenght is 10, skill level is 4 it would read as 10 * (1 + 4 * 0.05) / 100 = 10 * (1 + 0.2) / 100 = 10 * (1.2) / 100 = 12 / 100 = 0.12 ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Alystra Swift	Posted - 2007.03.23 17:33:00 - [406] Thanks again Hoshi, I knew how it should have been under normal math rules, was just wanting to make sure that was how it was suppose to be done in this case. :)
Bart Roberts	Posted - 2007.04.01 16:19:00 - [407] Hi all. Forgive me if this has already been covered somewhere deep in the depths of this topic ... didn't know what kind of probe to use to find it ... (little explorers' joke there). I was wondering how viable a profession Explorer would be for a relative "noob". I have about 1.5 mil. skill points, about 2 mil. isk to my name, and am flying a Rifter ... have bought Astrometrics but haven't trained it yet, and am also training the appropriate lead-up skills for Covert Ops. Is it possible to start basic exploration at my level, and use my early discoveries to fund a build-up of my skills and my equipment? Or is it necessary to build some capital first by practicing some other profession, then switch over? Thanks for your opinions. - Bart
eatingyak Fleet Of Elite The OSS	Posted - 2007.04.14 08:28:00 - [408] I finally have decent enough skills to scan, and just in time for the cheaper Covert Ops cloaks! Very rewarding and satisfying to probe something out when others can't do it :D Thanks for writing the guide Hoshi, and the EON article too.
Bob Farsenbruck	Posted - 2007.04.19 09:05:00 - [409] Originally by: Hoshi Scrap - This group was named Containers for a while and at that time could be used to find cans, now I have no idea what it picks up (does not pick up wrecks). so you mean i can find safe where there are Standard Cargo Containers or Secure Cargo Containers anchored??? What about capsules? I think is in ship group, but not sure. Thank u.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.19 11:37:00 - [410] Originally by: Bob Farsenbruck so you mean i can find safe where there are Standard Cargo Containers or Secure Cargo Containers anchored??? What about capsules? I think is in ship group, but not sure. Thank u. Capsules are in the ship group yes. As far as I know the Scrap group still doesn't pick up anything, neither cans nor wreaks nor anything else. It was for a short time during the beta testing on sisi that they picked up cans but it was changed before it went live. I think the idea is still that it will pick up wrecks but as it stands just allowing people to scan for wrecks would make it too easy to find mission runners while they are doing their mission. Hopefully there are some workaround being developed so both the mission runners and the salvager's can be happy. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Adril Alatar Minmatar Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.04.20 05:46:00 - [411] Edited by: Adril Alatar on 20/04/2007 05:45:53 Originally by: Hoshi Recon Probe Launcher I – 120 sec base cycle time (can be cut down to 21.7 sec) 1m3 capacity 2.5 sec rate of fire. Intended to be used for ship probing. the 21,7 seconds are not reachable There is no ship with scan probe launcher bonus and enough calibration points for 2 t2 gravity capacitor upgrade rigs. They use 300 calibration points each. On a covert ops you can only fit 2 t1 rigs and the best cycle time possible is 24,3 seconds.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.04.21 07:55:00 - [412] hummm any details about multiple probes, yet? - just wondering 'cause warp-bookmarking can be a p.i.t.a with my internet connection/the servers on weekends (not sure which). basically i'm wondering if a large collection of tetrahedrons might prove useful in my favourite systems
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.21 12:38:00 - [413] Originally by: Adril Alatar the 21,7 seconds are not reachable There is no ship with scan probe launcher bonus and enough calibration points for 2 t2 gravity capacitor upgrade rigs. They use 300 calibration points each. On a covert ops you can only fit 2 t1 rigs and the best cycle time possible is 24,3 seconds. Thought I had already updated that, well done now at least. Originally by: Roemy Schneider hummm any details about multiple probes, yet? - just wondering 'cause warp-bookmarking can be a p.i.t.a with my internet connection/the servers on weekends (not sure which). basically i'm wondering if a large collection of tetrahedrons might prove useful in my favourite systems Not really, back on sisi during the testing I had setup a nice system with loads of BMs perfectly placed to do multi probe testing but then they first made all bookmarks stop working and then a new mirror which meant I would have to redo all the work. Didn't feel very motivated to redo all the work and I haven't got around to it since. If you want to can give you the sample data I do have, maybe you can make something out of it. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.04.21 17:55:00 - [414] raise eyebrow hummmm only if it takes less than 15 minutes for you
Miss CJB Gallente In White Suits	Posted - 2007.04.25 12:52:00 - [415] Originally by: Roemy Schneider hummm any details about multiple probes, yet? - just wondering 'cause warp-bookmarking can be a p.i.t.a with my internet connection/the servers on weekends (not sure which). basically i'm wondering if a large collection of tetrahedrons might prove useful in my favourite systems overlaping probes work wonders, found 2 missionrunners, within 3 attemps, one with a 20au and 10au overlaping, and the other with 2 10au's Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Taiatia ([email protected])
Marlenus Ironfleet Towing And Salvage	Posted - 2007.04.25 23:04:00 - [416] Edited by: Marlenus on 25/04/2007 23:00:50 Originally by: Roemy Schneider basically i'm wondering if a large collection of tetrahedrons might prove useful in my favourite systems A well-surveyed system is a joy to live in. I love being able to lay a full system's spread of quest probes in less than six minutes, with perfect coverage and substantial overlap. Generally in the course of surveying a system that well, you also wind up with a good set of safe spots, which is handy for other reasons. "Come play in my backyard, I know where all the holes are." ------------------ Ironfleet.com Proposal: Automated Ore Return Vehicles
D'Uai Petopolix	Posted - 2007.04.30 14:43:00 - [417] Has anyone successfully scanned down pos modules? I have repeatedly tried it with no results. And if it is not possible to scan for pos modules, then what is included in the scan group "structures"? Only pos towers perhaps? Or NPC structures?
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.30 14:57:00 - [418] Originally by: D'Uai Petopolix Has anyone successfully scanned down pos modules? I have repeatedly tried it with no results. And if it is not possible to scan for pos modules, then what is included in the scan group "structures"? Only pos towers perhaps? Or NPC structures? I have probed them successfully several times. They just have a very low Signal Size. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Filthy Pierre Gallente Laughing Fox Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.08 06:42:00 - [419] Hey, Hoshi! Can you scan down cloaked ships? <Ducks and waits for Hoshi's screams of rage...) ..now, seriously, folks... I live in a system that seems to generate plenty of mission-generated wrecks. See them on the system scanner all the time. It's tantalizing - I'd dearly love to go after those buggers for the salvage (seems that the majority of the runners don't bother to clean up after themselves.) Problem is, there's no way of scanning for wrecks at this time, if I read this entire thread correctly. Conversely, shouldn't I be able to fire off a multispectral, chase down the signatures and most likely find the wrecks by finding the spaces/complexes they're in? TIA, FP
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.08 13:23:00 - [420] Multispectrals and other exploration probes only pick up exploration sites and static complexes. They don't pick up mission sites. The best you can do is probe down the person inside the mission while he is doing it. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Ybbor Notlimah	Posted - 2007.05.08 18:31:00 - [421] The full formula to calculate Signal Strength is: Signal Strength = (Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) / 100) * (e^-((Target Range / Max Range)^2)) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength) How does scanning mission runners effect the formula?
Amberes DtoR	Posted - 2007.05.12 21:00:00 - [422] Very Nice Guide, thank you.
Usul78 Orcus Inferno	Posted - 2007.05.14 09:02:00 - [423] I've recently noticed a problem with scan probing while using a recon scan probe launcher and snoop probes. I've been probing for over a year and have worked out how to do it very sucesfully. The problem i've noticed is that I do a scan for a ship which I know is in space and within the range of the probe. The probe, as it should, gives a result and shows the strenght of the signal is always over 1 (2.6 to more accurate) and shows the distance to the ship and as its a snoop probe shows the accuracy as 0km. When I warp to the ship I breifly see it in my overview and it disapears, as if I've overshoot the location by a few thousand Kilometers. The distance now says something along the lines of 2-8 thousand Km. I redo the scan and i'm now given a distance similar to my original distance, but not the same. It apears as if either the accuracy is being incorrectly displayed and the snoop probe acts like a less acurate one (with a 2-8 thousand Km accuarcy), or the location of the ship changes after each scan. Has anyone else noticed this, or is this some new change that i'm not aware of? If this is not a recent change then I must assume it to be a bug. I've spoken to someone else who has just recently started probing for ships and he said he's had this also, but assumed it was due to a low skill level. I have everything set to 4 or 5 in relation to all relivant skills and have never experienced this in over a year of frequent probing. P.S. I'm using the probes correctly. I've tried with 2 seperate ships in 2 seperate locations. I've tried using multiple probes. I've logged off and back on again to try agin with the same result. My skills are either at level 4 or 5 respectively. I'm using the correct probe and launcher. Please can someone help shed a light on this problem. Thanks.
Znekkie	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:26:00 - [424] I also have this problem with probing. My skills are all on 4 so normaly i have to find it. I launch a snoop probe and get a result of 0 m but when i warped in i didn't see anything. The ship appears on overvieuw during warp (most off the time at 40000km) but when i stop its gone??? i scan again and again but never get to the ship. I have also tried with sift probes to see if that works, and i also get a result on 0m but no ship when i warp there. I just got my skills right and did some exploration and it worked but ship probing does not work for me. I do everything as in this guide: use the right probes/range Can someone please tell me if its a bug or something i do wrong. Grtz Znekkie
Usul78 Orcus Inferno	Posted - 2007.05.15 13:05:00 - [425] Sounds like the same problem as me. As its not just myslef and two other people have now confirmed the exact same problem we have to assume its a bug. I can't find any confirmation from CCP, or any other mention of this problem on the forums so if anyone does have any further information or have done some more conclusive testing then please let us all know. I've put in a petition explaining the problem and given them the link to this forum post. I hope CCP will give us more information soon, or even better, completely fix the problem.
Sprzedawczyk	Posted - 2007.05.24 23:45:00 - [426] " Signal Strength decides how large the chance is that the target will show up on a given scan and also effect accuracy. A Signal strength of 0.5 means 50% chance, 1.0 or more give 100% chance etc." You say...yet I had multiple situations where sig strenght 1.1 required average of...10 scans. so, bug or wrong guessing?
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:04:00 - [427] Originally by: Sprzedawczyk " Signal Strength decides how large the chance is that the target will show up on a given scan and also effect accuracy. A Signal strength of 0.5 means 50% chance, 1.0 or more give 100% chance etc." You say...yet I had multiple situations where sig strenght 1.1 required average of...10 scans. so, bug or wrong guessing? If the target is inside a deadspace field (mission for example) the effective signal strength is divided by a large number (I think 100 but not 100% sure) BUT the scan window will still display the unmodified signal strength. This is probably what you are seeing. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Sprzedawczyk	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:13:00 - [428] I pinpointed the issue, now awaiting t2 bpos as token of appreciation from ccp:P Srsly. The problem was nerfing of signal strength when you have selected say quest and sift probe (even though they don't overlap!!!) - signal strength gets nerfed to hell, but gui still shows it's being 1+.
Paul 3Jane	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:06:00 - [429] Is anyone still getting the 'flyby' bug or is scanning now working as advertised. I started playing with scanning a while back and I to was getting a 0KM range with a signal strength over 1.0 but as the poster above said I would fly straight by the target ship. It would appear for a second on overview and then go. At the time I put it down to crap skills but I now have a Covert ops pilot training up for scanning and am concerned that once again I am wasting my time training up skills that no longer work or do not work as advertised (Blockade runners was the other one) Any input ?
Kua Immortal RSP Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.29 14:32:00 - [430] Edited by: Kua Immortal on 29/05/2007 15:26:23 You know what would be really cool? A spreadsheet where you can plug in your skill levels, the attributes of the ship (with a modifier if it is in a complex or mission) and its distance and the attributes of the probe you are using and it will calculate the signal strength and accuracy you can expect. I am going to look into it, but I am no excel expert. Even better where it compounds with other ships and.or (sigh why do my slash and apostrophe keys bring up the quick find box - answers on a postcard) drones to bring up a likelihood of a result. That is starting to sound more complex however :P. EDIT: Fantastic guide btw. To anyone wanting to start probing ships down I HIGHLY recommend you read the exploration guide that is also stickied in this forum. Exploration probes are fab for finding peeps in missions. Ooops I've said too much . EDIT2: I chatted to someone in your corp (possibly your alt, IDK) who said that drones are definitely subject to the DEDspace modifier, can you confirm that? :P EDIT3: OK it was easy enough for one ship. Although the sheet is pretty untidy :P.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.05 13:04:00 - [431] Finally got time to figure out how multiple probes effect each other. There are some final details to figure out but the most important work is done. When adding a second probe to the scan it will cause interference. It doesn't matter where this second probe is placed, it can intersect over the target or be placed several 100 au away, it will still cause the exact same amount of interference. The amount of interference is based on the range between the probe being interfered (the first probe) and the target. The shorter the range the less the interference. At close to max range for that probe the inteference is 30%, at 0 range it's 2.5%, it's then linar between these points. Let's do an example: Probe A, a snoop probe, strength 20, range 5. Probe B, another snoop probe, strength 20, range 5. Target T, a ship with signal size 5. Probe A is placed 4 au away from target T. Alone the strength would be 0.52. Now we place Probe B 100 au away, it will now cause inteference for probe A of 25% (base on the fact that Target T is 4 au from Probe A) so the new strength of the combined scan is now 0.39 If we place Probe B 4 au from Target T as well so the probes intersect over the target the strength from probe A is still 0.39, from probe B be it will be the same as A acts as interference and we then add these toghther for a combined strentgth of 0.39+0.39 = 0.78 ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.05 23:08:00 - [432] Seems I was a bit premature, it seems multiple probes depending on placement can either cause Interference (like I described in the last post) or Amplification. If the probes are place so the target are positioned in between them you get interference BUT if you place both probes on the same side of the target you instead get Amplification of the same amount. Example: Interference Probe A -- 4 au -- Target -- 100 au -- Probe B Here Probe B cause interference lowering the strength by 25%. Amplification Probe B -- 100 AU -- Probe A -- 4 AU -- Target Here Probe B cause Amplification increasing the strength by 30%. I have yet to check what happens if you place them in different angles (a bit hard to make the BMs for that). ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Kua Immortal RSP Enterprises	Posted - 2007.06.09 11:19:00 - [433] Really nice work.
Weirwolf	Posted - 2007.06.09 21:32:00 - [434] ok here Goes: I ran a Multi-spec in my system, it came back with a Grav hit. so I positioned my Grav Quests with what I thought was good coverage of all the planets, (wish I knew how to upload pics) I did not get anymore hits on it , I tried like 15 scans with those, so then I got some Grav Combs and once again with good coverage took like 7 of them, ran another 10 scans and sure enough no hits, now am I being impatient here or ..... , so I'm asking the Guru's for advise here, I took some screen captures of my placement, so maybe if someone may be able to tell me how to do that, that would be awesome. I know it would help in my main question here. Thanx for Listening
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.09 23:06:00 - [435] I would suggest the exploration thread for that question but a simple question, did you get a hit with your quests before switching to comb? if you did not then you need to keep scanning with quest. A site can be upto 4 au away from any planet in any direction (up/down as well). There is no possible why that you could have covered that area with combs. Grav sites are the hardest ones to locate. Going thru 2-3 sets of quests before getting a hit is not unheard of. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Weirwolf Capetola Enterprises	Posted - 2007.06.10 00:39:00 - [436] nope, I did not get a hit with the quests only the mult-spec, I will keep trying with the Quests....ty Hoshi , By the way thanx for the great guide, it has really helped out a fledgling explorer...........7
Weirwolf Capetola Enterprises	Posted - 2007.06.10 06:15:00 - [437] well I found it, It turned out to be Barren astriods but never the less,I'm hooked, once again Very good Guide. I applaud your work on it...till next time
MeestaPenni Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.04 15:39:00 - [438] Great thread with some very useful information. I'm sorry for asking what is possibly a stupid question. If I load my probe launcher with 20au probes, how do I then reload with 5au in order to "fine-tune" my scan results? I can unload to cargo, but attempting to reload only shows the previously loaded probes. Kinda' new at the probe scanning thing.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.04 22:10:00 - [439] Originally by: MeestaPenni Great thread with some very useful information. I'm sorry for asking what is possibly a stupid question. If I load my probe launcher with 20au probes, how do I then reload with 5au in order to "fine-tune" my scan results? I can unload to cargo, but attempting to reload only shows the previously loaded probes. Kinda' new at the probe scanning thing. If you have them in your cargo they should show up if you right click on the probe launcher. Just like when loading ammo. Maybe you put the wrong probes in your cargo. Exploration probes (quest etc) won't fit in the recon launcher. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Rush X Unidentified Flying Dutchman	Posted - 2007.07.20 23:00:00 - [440] thx for the info peeps
Aerinn	Posted - 2007.07.26 11:15:00 - [441] Has anyone seen the very simple ingame browser page that calculates scan times? It lets you select which ship you have, what level skills you have, and what rigs you have equipped, and then calculates your scan time. I used to have this in my bookmarks, but lost all my BM's due to a computer rebuild and I can't find it in my old bookmarks file in the game directory. I know the formulas for all of this, but somewhere I got a link to an in-game browser page that was very clean/simple, graphical, and useful. I think it was a calc on the D-Nightmare site, but I could be COMPLETELY wrong about that, and I can't find it there. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
Kamir SarZak	Posted - 2007.08.02 19:27:00 - [442] Does anyone know if Observator Deep Space Probes are of any use ? All I have managed to pick up are ships (which is not what I want to do with these probes), and I have been using them for a while now. I have heard that there are sites that you can pick up with these probes that you cant with the usual ones. Does anyone know if this is true ? So far I have not been able to confirm it. Thanks. Kamir
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:57:00 - [443] Originally by: Kamir SarZak Does anyone know if Observator Deep Space Probes are of any use ? All I have managed to pick up are ships (which is not what I want to do with these probes), and I have been using them for a while now. I have heard that there are sites that you can pick up with these probes that you cant with the usual ones. Does anyone know if this is true ? So far I have not been able to confirm it. Thanks. Kamir Observator Deep Space Probe is used to find ships located in deep safe spots and for that it works just fine. All exploration sites are within 4au of a planet so there is no need for observators to find any of them. Note that the observator probe has such a low strength that you are talking of around 0.001-0.01% chance of picking an exploration site per scan. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.08.10 18:19:00 - [444] Originally by: Hoshi Seems I was a bit premature, it seems multiple probes depending on placement can either cause Interference (like I described in the last post) or Amplification. If the probes are place so the target are positioned in between them you get interference BUT if you place both probes on the same side of the target you instead get Amplification of the same amount. Example: Interference Probe A -- 4 au -- Target -- 100 au -- Probe B Here Probe B cause interference lowering the strength by 25%. Amplification Probe B -- 100 AU -- Probe A -- 4 AU -- Target Here Probe B cause Amplification increasing the strength by 30%. I have yet to check what happens if you place them in different angles (a bit hard to make the BMs for that). Am I right in understanding that the interference doesn't actually reduce your total chance of getting a hit between the two probes? Or to put it a different way, is the chance of getting a hit still better than if you'd only placed one probe? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Rafa Nadal	Posted - 2007.08.13 00:25:00 - [445] I was doing a deadspace mission in 0.4 sec and suddenly found myself being targeted ...I didn't know you could be probed while doing a mission ! Is this a bug or is it really possible ?
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.08.13 00:56:00 - [446] Originally by: Rafa Nadal I was doing a deadspace mission in 0.4 sec and suddenly found myself being targeted ...I didn't know you could be probed while doing a mission ! Is this a bug or is it really possible ? It's a bug Seriously...yes you can be probed out of deadspace "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Niina Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.08.14 17:03:00 - [447] has probing been changed since i have no luck getting missions spots anymore :( used to get many NPC'ers thisway after revelations 1 patch, now i cant get a hit to a BS whit 100 try's :(
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.08.17 15:07:00 - [448] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Am I right in understanding that the interference doesn't actually reduce your total chance of getting a hit between the two probes? Or to put it a different way, is the chance of getting a hit still better than if you'd only placed one probe? Sorry for the late response, with the thread not sticked anymore I missed the new posts in it (reply notification please CCP?). It is possibly to reduce the total chance of finding the target by placing another probe. It will happen in 2 specific cases: 1. If the second probe is out of range of the target and placed so that the target is in between the probes. In this case the probe only creates interference as it's not in range to boost. 2. If the second probe is in range but is of a longer range/weaker kind. Depending on the exact probe types and placement it's possible for the second probe to create more interference than its boost to the signal. In practice you need probes at least 2 sizes apart, ie 5 au and 20 au or 10 and 40 au for this to happen. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:43:00 - [449] Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Am I right in understanding that the interference doesn't actually reduce your total chance of getting a hit between the two probes? Or to put it a different way, is the chance of getting a hit still better than if you'd only placed one probe? Sorry for the late response, with the thread not sticked anymore I missed the new posts in it (reply notification please CCP?). No problem at all. :) Quote: It is possibly to reduce the total chance of finding the target by placing another probe. It will happen in 2 specific cases: 1. If the second probe is out of range of the target and placed so that the target is in between the probes. In this case the probe only creates interference as it's not in range to boost. Ah ok, that's unfortunate. So "interference/amplification" doesn't have a maximum range? One of the real pleasures I've been getting from exploration is trying to get good overlaps, and it's a little sad to think in some cases all the effort has been and will be hurting my chances rather than helping them. Any recommendations? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.08.17 21:16:00 - [450] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Ah ok, that's unfortunate. So "interference/amplification" doesn't have a maximum range? One of the real pleasures I've been getting from exploration is trying to get good overlaps, and it's a little sad to think in some cases all the effort has been and will be hurting my chances rather than helping them. Any recommendations? The problem with exploration is that you don't know where the target is, not even after getting the first hit do you know where the target is in relations to the probe. This makes it very hard to avoid/take advantage of interference/amplification. My suggestion for exploration is this. When placing quests just ignore it completely. A probe sitting at the other side of the system scanning another planet might end up increasing or decreasing the chance, just try to get as good coverage as possible and if you can/want to go for overlapping then do so. After the initial hit just use one probe, here trying to place more probes to get overlapping is more than likely to backfire and create interference instead. The practical uses of interference/amplification are more interesting with ship probing where you know where your target is in relation to your probes. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.08.17 21:38:00 - [451] That makes sense. Thanks much, Hoshi. :) (I think I see what you mean about ship probing too. It's kind of cool that that's brings more depth into what's otherwise a very simple system.) * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Ki Shodan Gallente deep blue	Posted - 2007.08.29 18:22:00 - [452] Originally by: Hoshi The problem with exploration is that you don't know where the target is, not even after getting the first hit do you know where the target is in relations to the probe. This makes it very hard to avoid/take advantage of interference/amplification. This explains a lot of my poor results after the first hit, especially in systems with more than one sig (eg. grav and unknown). I often used inflight BMs to get better coverage of the inner planets, but left the quest's on the outer planets, when using smaller probes on the hit to get possible result from the outer planets (other planets more than 4 au away). Is it fixed with the last patch or should I destroy the quests at the other planets, when i get a hit? -- Evemail me, if my name is used as guarantor!
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.08.29 18:31:00 - [453] Originally by: Ki Shodan Originally by: Hoshi The problem with exploration is that you don't know where the target is, not even after getting the first hit do you know where the target is in relations to the probe. This makes it very hard to avoid/take advantage of interference/amplification. This explains a lot of my poor results after the first hit, especially in systems with more than one sig (eg. grav and unknown). I often used inflight BMs to get better coverage of the inner planets, but left the quest's on the outer planets, when using smaller probes on the hit to get possible result from the outer planets (other planets more than 4 au away). Is it fixed with the last patch or should I destroy the quests at the other planets, when i get a hit? You don't need to destroy the quests, just don't select them. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
BoBoTai	Posted - 2007.10.07 22:06:00 - [454] From the guide i understand that there should be an graphical window besides the system scanner tab showing colored dots (red, yellow etc.). I don't see that graphical window anywhere. Do i have switch it on somewhere? Thanks! p.s. can't be said often enough: great guide! Grz. BoBoTai
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.10.08 01:13:00 - [455] Those are marked on your system map--F10. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
BoBoTai	Posted - 2007.10.08 05:36:00 - [456] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Those are marked on your system map--F10. You mean the "Solar system map"? Gr. BoBoTai
BoBoTai	Posted - 2007.10.08 10:35:00 - [457] I actually mean the radar view in the system scanner corner. You'l find it at the following link: system scanner graphical radar view. I do have the system scanner window, but without the graphical radar view. so it's impossible to get an good 360 degrees overview. I would like to know how to get this graphical radar view in my system scanner tab. Thanks! Gr. BoBoTai.
Matrices Reborn Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.10 20:36:00 - [458] It used to be there but in its infinite wisdom CCP removed the scanner for no good reason from the directional scanner tab. So now you have to open up the scanner and hit F10 concurrently to do directional scanning properly.
CaldariSlave	Posted - 2007.10.18 23:43:00 - [459] Amplification and interference has my head swimming a bit. Let me see if I can phrase a few questions to help me understand. If any of my initial statements are wrong please correct me! Interference is a wholly detrimental effect that occurs when the target is between probes. It occurs regardless of whether the probes are in range of the target. The total interference is calculated based on how far your closest (first?) probe is from the scan target, maxing at about 30%. Amplification is a wholly positive effect that occurs when multiple probes are deployed so that the target is not between any two probes but rather on one 'side' of them. Scenario 1 Let's say I have a target in a mission at Planet 1 and Planet 2 is 200 au away from Plant 1. I deploy a ferret, a spook, a snoop and a 4au exploration (quest?)all between Planet 1 and Planet 2, all on one side of the target and all in their own scan range of the target. 1a) Does deploying multiple probes all on one side of the target create only amplification? 1b)Is the magnitude of the amplifciation calculated in the same manner as with interference? 1c)Does this mean that the amplification bonus is greater if the closest probe is at it's max raneg from the target? 1d)If I can create interference with additional probes that aren't in range of the target but still sandwich the target, can I create amplification by deploying multiple probes all on the same side of the target even if they are not in range? 2) Is there a seperate effect that can degrade scan probe performance other than interference, some form of basic stacking penalty between probes? 3) Does using exploration and ship probes together have any stacking penalties past interference and amplification?
Yunii Allied Combat Team Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.11.05 00:00:00 - [460] Are the Observators not working like they used anymore? Silent nerf? ------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers.
AsfALT Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.11.09 12:10:00 - [461] Hello, This is a great guide. Did i understand right that mission runners are almost impossible to scan? Any input on how i could do that is wellecomed. Thnx.
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.11.19 01:50:00 - [462] I have heard that it is now drastically harder to search out folks in mission deadspace. Is this true? Quote: ItÆs still possible to see probes on the directional scanner by setting it to not use overview settings, even easier now as a lot of stuff like npcs and roids have been removed from this list so it will come up much faster and be less cluttered. Is it possible to toggle some overview setting so that you can see scan probes on your overview, or on the directional scanner while using the over view settings?
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.21 23:04:00 - [463] Originally by: CaldariSlave 1a) Does deploying multiple probes all on one side of the target create only amplification? 1b)Is the magnitude of the amplifciation calculated in the same manner as with interference? 1c)Does this mean that the amplification bonus is greater if the closest probe is at it's max raneg from the target? 1d)If I can create interference with additional probes that aren't in range of the target but still sandwich the target, can I create amplification by deploying multiple probes all on the same side of the target even if they are not in range? 2) Is there a seperate effect that can degrade scan probe performance other than interference, some form of basic stacking penalty between probes? 3) Does using exploration and ship probes together have any stacking penalties past interference and amplification? Sorry for the delay at answering, easy to miss when the thread is not sticky anymore. First of all your scenario does not work as you can not place probes inside the scan range of other probes (which your scenario does). 1a) Unknown, I have only tested with 2 probes so far. 1b) Yes 1c) Yes BUT because it's at its max range its strength is already reduced from range much more than amplification will boost it up. 1d) Yes that is the only way of creating amplification (as you can not place probes inside scan range of other probes). 2) Not on sensor strength, but there are also effects on accuracy that I have not been able to nail down yet. 3) Have not tested but I very much doubt it. For the system there is no real difference between a ship and exploration probe, just different range/strength. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.21 23:06:00 - [464] Originally by: Yunii Are the Observators not working like they used anymore? Silent nerf? Observators are working fine. Originally by: AsfALT Hello, This is a great guide. Did i understand right that mission runners are almost impossible to scan? Any input on how i could do that is wellecomed. Thnx. Not impossible, just much harder. Originally by: Ulstan Quote: ItÆs still possible to see probes on the directional scanner by setting it to not use overview settings, even easier now as a lot of stuff like npcs and roids have been removed from this list so it will come up much faster and be less cluttered. Is it possible to toggle some overview setting so that you can see scan probes on your overview, or on the directional scanner while using the over view settings? No you can not add them to the overview. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Endless Subversion	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:47:00 - [465] Edited by: Endless Subversion on 28/11/2007 16:59:28 Quote: 1d)If I can create interference with additional probes that aren't in range of the target but still sandwich the target, can I create amplification by deploying multiple probes all on the same side of the target even if they are not in range? 1d) Yes that is the only way of creating amplification (as you can not place probes inside scan range of other probes). So let me get this straight. 1)Interference is the only negative influence on scan strength and interference isn't generated if the probes are all on the same side? Two Scenarios to ask about let's say this: Target--3au--bookmark with 4u probe exploration probe---5.1au---snoop---5.1au---snoop 2)Am I better off scanning that way than I am just using the 3au probe? What if I could do this. Exploration Probe---3au---Target---3au---Exploration Probe 3)Am I better off using the first scenario or the second? 4) How can I compare the relative strengths of the setups.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 19:34:00 - [466] 1) Correct. 2) This will give better scan strength than the 4au probe alone. 3) Second scenario. 4) Intersecting 2 probes will always give the best strength IF both probes have the same strength. If you use probes with different strength the interference can become higher than the intersection boost. Interference can lower signal strength by upto 30%. So if the strength from the second probe (after range reduction and interference here as well) is less than 30% of the strength of the first probe (after range reduction) then it will hinder more than it helps. If you can not place 2 probes of the same strength so they intersect the second option is to amplify by place the other probe/probes on the same side of the target. For best result try to get a straight a line going from target to probe A to probe B. If we draw a triangle with target T, probe A and probe B as the corners we want angle T to be as small as possible, if angle T becomes more than 90 degrees we will get interference instead of amplification. I do not have the formula for amount of amplifications/interference to angle at this time, I only know from a couple of tests that the angle does have this effect. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:47:00 - [467] Just noticed my E:ON version of the guide (minus the pretty pictures) are available online on CCPs own site. Player Guide - Ship Probing So for anyone who didn't get that E:ON issue it's there for you to read. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
deadok Amarr Guards of Heavens Door Absolute Guardians Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.10 15:26:00 - [468] Edited by: deadok on 10/12/2007 15:27:51 Ok, interference. Spent 4 hours yersturday. Got a unknown in system, started to scan it. After 2.5 hours of scanning with quests(approx 70-80 attempts with my skills) i finally found an 0.06 result. I was really dissapointed, since (after 40-50 attempt) i was sure that it would be smth like 10/10. So i decided to make some tests: 1) scanned down this plex (it was angel 8/10), made 2 spots, 0.25-0.26au away from plex each (smth like probe1 - plex - probe2, it was a triangle actually - distance between probes about 0.46au, or smth), dropped sifts and started scan,scan,scan, redrop probes, scan, etc... Guess what? 18 attemps and no result. Just to check, warped to plex - gate is still there. Dropped one sift in 0.26au, 2/3 results (smth like 0.4-0.5, don't remeber). So, assuming, that everything is ok, chance of not finding this plex in 18 attempts would be 0.6^18 = 0.01% or 1 in 10000 - misfortune? 2) Made a spot in 0.506au, dropped one sift there and another on gate - 0 results of 6 att. 3) Dropped lone sift right on gate, 5/6 attempts - 0.6180 with accuracy of 30-280. your opinions?
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.12.15 22:29:00 - [469] There are some strange things with scanning. Once there was this unpiloted ship sitting in a deep safe which I found by chance with the directional scanner while warping to another deepsafe. By some bookmark placing I got within snoop range, and all math said I should have 100% chance of finding it, in the end it took 10 snoops and when I finally got a hit it said 2.3 strength. What I am trying to say is that not everything related to scanning can be explained :) Maybe what you where seeing where some lingering deadspace area effect, when the plex has been spawned it's a deadspace area which means harder to find stuff in it, then maybe CCP has some code to make sure that the site beacon itself is not effected by this deadspace field but maybe this code is broken for multiple probes. It's one possible explanation and there are probably others too. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Phenglei Kai	Posted - 2008.03.01 22:24:00 - [470] This is a lot of great info...love that probing
Strags Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.24 01:06:00 - [471] Thanks Hoshi! Appreciate your time putting this together.
Aron Palatine	Posted - 2008.04.15 07:19:00 - [472] I'm trying to run the math on these scan probes. Here's something I think I've found that may be wrong. Feel free to point me to an updated posting if this is out of date, edited or I'm otherwise being blind... [Contact me VIA evemail please, I can't juggle these forums] Originally by: Hoshi The full formula to calculate Signal Strength is: Signal Strength = (Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) / 100) * (1 û (0.65 ((Target Range / Max Range) ^ 1.5))) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength) Then the example: Originally by: Hoshi Signal Strength = (2.5 * (1 + 30.1) / 100) (1 - (0.65 ((35 / 40) ^ 1.5))) * (480 / 24) = 0.304 [where] Ferret 40 au probe to try to locate a Scorpion 35 au away. We have Signal Acquisition level 3. Break it down: (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) was represented as (1 + Level of Signal Acquisition * 0.1) I believe it should be Astro. Tri. as that makes sense and the number should be .05 (5% Scan Str Bonus per lvl). Where as Signal Acq. only deals with scan speeds (-10% plvl to scan time).
Aron Palatine	Posted - 2008.04.15 07:42:00 - [473] I'm not sure why either, but when the range of your target increases, the max deviation decreases... kind of illogical I think. My code is below, in edited c/p from excel: Max Scan Deviation -8.8km=200km((0.6(1.342pts^2))-(1.61.342pts)+1)(1-(astro pin lvl 3)0.1) Signal Strength 1.416pts =(20.0pts(1+(astro tri lvl 3)0.1)/100)(1-(0.65((4.9AU/5AU)^1.5)))(300m/18pts) Variables: Snoop Probe (200km Max Deviation, 20.0pts Sensor Strength, 5 AU Range) Base Eos Target (300m Sig Rad, 18pts Sensor Strength) @ 4.9 AU away Astrological Triangulation 3 Astrological Pin Pointing 3 Change this to a 2.5 AU range for the target Eos and now the Max Scan Deviation is 210.9km, 2 AU = 284.3km, and the closer it gets the greater the Scan Deviation. Is all this correct? Do I have something backwards here somewhere? It's already the small hours of the morning as I'm doing this so fatigue could easily be to blame for this. Thanks for looking at this, and explaining to a scanning novice. Also, great job on the OP, I would be really pretty lost without it.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2008.04.15 08:59:00 - [474] Answered per evemail as requested but here is the cliff notes: 1. You must be using a really old cached version (eve-search maybe?). Both the scan strength formula and the examples have been updated around 16 months ago. 2. Yes the accuracy formula is not correct, it even says so in the guide. I have yet to come up with a formula that fits the data. Quote: The formula to calculate Maximum effective Scan Deviation is not know at this time, the following formula will provide an estimate that works for most cases: ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Rafael Tonka	Posted - 2008.04.17 07:09:00 - [475] Thanks for an amazing guide to probing and scanning Hoshi. I've just got myself my 1st Cov Ops ship and will be playing with it quite a lot in the near future to try and make the most of these new skills! 1 question for you from the guide though - in your list of scan groups it's got an entry for 'Scrap'. Has this now been removed as I can't seem to see it anywhere in the scanner window in-game? Cheers pal Raf
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2008.04.17 07:39:00 - [476] Originally by: Rafael Tonka Thanks for an amazing guide to probing and scanning Hoshi. I've just got myself my 1st Cov Ops ship and will be playing with it quite a lot in the near future to try and make the most of these new skills! 1 question for you from the guide though - in your list of scan groups it's got an entry for 'Scrap'. Has this now been removed as I can't seem to see it anywhere in the scanner window in-game? Cheers pal Raf You must be looking at an old version as well. Might I ask where (so I maybe can get that old version updated as well)?. The "Scrap" group (which wasn't working anyway) has been replaced by "Cosmic Anomaly" a couple of patches ago. The guide was updated when it happened. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2008.04.17 09:20:00 - [477] Guide updated with information about faction launchers, probes and implants. Should have been done months ago but now it's finally done.
Rafael Tonka	Posted - 2008.04.17 10:26:00 - [478] I was looking at the guide with the link a few posts above... http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g622.asp Just noticed the mistake in my post (ie, not paying attention to what is there now!!) So is the cosmic anomoly category useful in any way?? I'll have a more thorough read up through the thread when I get a break - at work just now.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:42:00 - [479] Originally by: Rafael Tonka I was looking at the guide with the link a few posts above... http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g622.asp Just noticed the mistake in my post (ie, not paying attention to what is there now!!) So is the cosmic anomoly category useful in any way?? I'll have a more thorough read up through the thread when I get a break - at work just now. Ah that's a copy of the guide I wrote of EON magazine, they put it in the guide section without informing me which meant I didn't have a chance to update it. I been thinking of getting them to update it but atm I feel it's better to wait for the EVElopedia and get it right there. Cosmic Anomaly lets you search for so called Encounters, npc combat sites. They are part of exploration but sort of the lite version of it. You can find those sites with the built in scanner in your ship, don't need to use probes for it. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Rafael Tonka	Posted - 2008.04.18 10:58:00 - [480] Thanks :) Did my 1st bit of scanning in Dodixie last night and used 12 probes to looking for ships and drones. Collected over 30 assorted drones from a few returns, mainlt t1 but a few hammerhead II's and Ogre II's. Also lucked on 2 accel gates. Through 1 had a whole mission worth of salvage + loot (mission runner was no longer in system so I looted too) and other was an untouched mission - too many BS for my little destroyer fitted for salvage to cope with, so I ran away. Total haul for night just over 15mil isk. Not bad for 1st real day of probing :)
Jin'to	Posted - 2008.05.18 17:54:00 - [481] I coudnt find a answer after some searching around, but anyone of you guys know how much i gain in chance of finding anything, with 1% more in probe str?
Hoshi Black Water.	Posted - 2008.05.20 10:24:00 - [482] Originally by: Jin'to I coudnt find a answer after some searching around, but anyone of you guys know how much i gain in chance of finding anything, with 1% more in probe str? I assume it's the "Hardwiring - Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPG-0" you are looking at. 1% more probe strength would have the effect of multiplying current probe chance with 1.01 So if you had 10% chance before and increased strength with 1% you would get 10.1% chance. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
haq aan Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.28 11:06:00 - [483] Hello all, Maybe already answered but couldnt dig out in this forum. Anyway my questions are : How frequently a system generates sites? Or is it depends on a dice roll? (which the dice decides where and which type of site gonna be) Lets say i scanned a system and found an unknown just 10 mins before DT. Will it go poof and spawn elsewhere after DT? Actually u may see both my questions are kinda about ' whats the mechanism behind exploration site spawns '. Thank u everyone for this thread. Especially Hoshi o/ haq aan
Hoshi Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.28 21:13:00 - [484] This thread is not really about exploration but I'll answer anyway. 1. Each time a site despawns (due to timer or someone finishing it) a new site of the same type will spawn in a random system in the spawn area. The size of the spawn area are several regions large. So the total number of exploration sites are always the same. 2. Downtime has no effect on exploration sites. A site will despawn 3 (or was it 4?, don't remember atm) days after it spawned if none has finished it before then. If a site spawns at 18.23 eve time it will despawn at 18.23 3 or 4 days later. As no one can actually finish a site during downtime no sites should ever spawn/despawn during it either. The exception would be newly added sites. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Greycap	Posted - 2008.07.12 23:55:00 - [485] Brillant thank you
Vanna Banana	Posted - 2008.07.14 21:16:00 - [486] When scanning with a Multispect I sometimes find a "WAYPOST" . Any idea what the hell it is or means.
gpfault Hanzai Soshiki	Posted - 2008.07.25 11:15:00 - [487] Someone asked for a spreadsheet, so here's mine. Currently it calculates the chance to get a hit and the max scan deviation based on probe type, skills, etc using the formulae privided by Hoshi. If have a problem/suggestion/question evemail me.
Gnipp3r Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:20:00 - [488] Since the 5AU probes only lasts 300secs, and the time takes 600secs to scan, is it possible to throw out another? Or do I have to train skills to actually be able to scan with 5AU probes? Thanks. - <-Gnipp3r.
James Copper Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.31 06:25:00 - [489] if you are taking that long, you are using a scan probe launcher, not a recon launcher. I did the same thing first time out... Patience is required, but our day will come...
Gnipp3r Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.31 14:29:00 - [490] Originally by: James Copper if you are taking that long, you are using a scan probe launcher, not a recon launcher. I did the same thing first time out... Ah thank you, I'll try that now. - <-Gnipp3r.

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WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS

WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS

The new system does NOT allow you to probe for Covert/Cloaked ships.