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Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:29:00 - [511] Originally by: OldPueblo Look again, its happening more and more often. And why not, EVE definitely has its share of those that just enjoy messing with others play. Its not about the effort or the money, they enjoy doing it. How much of a hassle is it to sit at a gate and instapop haulers and get concorded for sometimes worthless loot? Big hassle, but enjoyable because they **ed someone off. Now how exactly am I supposed to get enough research points to buy datacores from my research agents if I don't have high standings with several different NPC corps? What if I want to increase my chances with the tech2 lottery? What if I want to lower my market taxes as a tradesman selling on the market frequently? What if I want to increase my refining abilty as a miner? Standings affect those in a big way, especially the brand new invention system. So guess what, standings are important for those that want to take part in those facets of EVE. So you don't care about them. Thats fine, but don't pretend your perspective is the only one that's "right" or "how EVE should be." A) Hunting hi-sec mission-runners is the flavor of the month.. It will pass relatively quickly once people realize there is very little money to be made.. B) There's a huge difference in both effort required and profit made between waiting at a gate to suicide gank a fat clueless hauler, and hunting down a mission runner to steal the set of Special Reports or whatever.. Sitting at a gate requires no effort, hunting somebody does.. The hauler can be carrying a load of megacyte, or T2 gear, or whatever.. Special Reports aren't worth jack.. Both ** the victim off (which is a plus), but the high profit + low effort one will win everyday.. C) Standings can easily be repaired by running more missions.. You however seem to be under the impression that you will get ganked everytime you run a mission.. Why is that?.. Most people don't seem to have this problem, unless of course they bring those sorts of problems upon themselves by acting like idiots..
Victor Kruger	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:29:00 - [512] Edited by: Victor Kruger on 06/12/2006 23:32:41 I have never encountered a game company (well, apart from SOE), who has actively tried to chase a good part of their playerbase away. Excellent job, CCP. After doing absolutely nothing against the various grief and scam artists, which gave a nice draw signal to the various gaming scum out there, you add some nice little cream on top. /me tips hat /me goes playing WoW --------------- Hey, where's my portrait
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:32:00 - [513] Originally by: Victor Kruger I have never encountered a game company (well, apart from SOE), who has actively tried to chase a good part of their playerbase away. Excellent job, CCP. After doing absolutely nothing against the various grief and scam artists, giving a nice draw signal to the various gaming scum out there, you add some nice little cream on top. /me tips hat /me goes playing WoW Yay. I can see why CCP tries to chase your kind away, this is one of the reason I like the company -----
Kurt Russet	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:33:00 - [514] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff ... C) Standings can easily be repaired by running more missions. ... I would be thrilled if I can make up for my standing loss for failing ONE mission by successfully completing another ONE. But sadly that's not the case.
Victor Kruger	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:37:00 - [515] At least I will know which game has the highest percentage of ****ers and griefers. Sadly, they will move on once the playerbase has been ruined. Does DAoC Mordred ring a bell? --------------- Hey, where's my portrait
OldPueblo Gallente Defenders of Order	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:39:00 - [516] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Originally by: OldPueblo Look again, its happening more and more often. And why not, EVE definitely has its share of those that just enjoy messing with others play. Its not about the effort or the money, they enjoy doing it. How much of a hassle is it to sit at a gate and instapop haulers and get concorded for sometimes worthless loot? Big hassle, but enjoyable because they **ed someone off. Now how exactly am I supposed to get enough research points to buy datacores from my research agents if I don't have high standings with several different NPC corps? What if I want to increase my chances with the tech2 lottery? What if I want to lower my market taxes as a tradesman selling on the market frequently? What if I want to increase my refining abilty as a miner? Standings affect those in a big way, especially the brand new invention system. So guess what, standings are important for those that want to take part in those facets of EVE. So you don't care about them. Thats fine, but don't pretend your perspective is the only one that's "right" or "how EVE should be." A) Hunting hi-sec mission-runners is the flavor of the month.. It will pass relatively quickly once people realize there is very little money to be made.. B) There's a huge difference in both effort required and profit made between waiting at a gate to suicide gank a fat clueless hauler, and hunting down a mission runner to steal the set of Special Reports or whatever.. Sitting at a gate requires no effort, hunting somebody does.. The hauler can be carrying a load of megacyte, or T2 gear, or whatever.. Special Reports aren't worth jack.. Both ** the victim off (which is a plus), but the high profit + low effort one will win everyday.. C) Standings can easily be repaired by running more missions.. You however seem to be under the impression that you will get ganked everytime you run a mission.. Why is that?.. Most people don't seem to have this problem, unless of course they bring those sorts of problems upon themselves by acting like idiots.. To quote the OP "in the past 3 hours I have had griefers drop in on me 5 times." How many times this is happening has yet to be fully catalogued, however I'm inclined to say its happening enough to need adressing. As well you don't let something like this just go until it escalates out of control. Your point about returns is valid on the gate campers, however we know of course that there are those do it for the pure pleasure of annoying others. That's griefing. And standings being easy to fix is relative. By not being able to finish the mission, not only do they not get the standings increase at the end, they actually go negative. This doesn't include the time they just wasted doing the mission. This has never happened to me (yet), but I would be extremely angered if it did. Now, I have the ability and the inclination to hunt them into low-sec with a locator agent, but many others will not due to being too young or not having the time. They don't deserve to be screwed. As I said many posts back, people can scan those of us that run missions all they want. Take our loot as a pirate, take our wrecks as a salvager, orbit me all you want. But if they directly interfere with the completion of the mission, they should be penalized harshly.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:41:00 - [517] easiest solution for this problem: change the new (broken) scan probe system to anything else than a "one-click, found you" system. afaik TomB is allready working on it ___________________ EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts
Uuve Savisaalo Umbra Congregatio	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:42:00 - [518] Originally by: Victor Kruger /me tips hat /me goes playing WoW Victor, the market has diversified a great deal and there are many games out there that cater to different types of players and different playing styles as well as expectations. It is impossible to corner the entirety of the market, and appealing to the lowest common denominator is, if anything, a bit of a liability in today's MMOG marketplace. If you look at eve, it is a highly competative game from the ground up. Missions are hardly the focus of eve, and far from its best feature - if anything they seem like a bit of an afterthought. Precisely why anybody would want to run the same old thing over and over again is really beyond me, but such behaviour is indeed their right. What is not their god-given right, however, is coming to these forums and demanding complete and utter privacy in their missions (essentially instances, which eve has always stood against) CCP's primary goal has always been creating a game which they themselves desire to play - a sandbox for people of all sorts to come together and create what they may, behave as they must and force upon other players reprecussions of their actions which the community itself deems taboo through entirely in-game means. CCP has been extremely hands-off about this, and the way eve was conceived from the start illustrates that monetary concerns weren't their primary goal. Eve isn't designed as a shameless cash cow - if it were, we'd have WOW in space. Like i said before, there are many games which cater to different experiences. If you prefer what WOW has to offer, that is certainly your choice - even and WOW aren't in competition over playerbase, as the type of player who'd prefer eve would not really be entertained by WOW all that much. Eve, in a nutshell, is freedom of action and consequence. WOW is a themepark ride. Both games are great in their own right, but neither is for everybody and attempting to debase it to keep the fewest people offended possible would be bound to result in mediocrity.
Bellatrix VanFeldt	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:44:00 - [519] Originally by: Andrea Tesla 5b: Make an optional answer for the agent, reading "Sir/Mam, I got your marines/special delivery/slaves/pilot, but OtherPlayerXYZ stole it. Please gimme a warrant, so I can get back to you." - flagging the player who got your mission item, until your mission runs out. Excellent idea.
Uuve Savisaalo Umbra Congregatio	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:45:00 - [520] At the same time, faster scan probing presents a myriad of applications on the battlefield, such as same-grid scanning in the middle of a fleet engagement that brings your close-ranged bralwers in the face of an enemy sniper fleet. One should not dismiss the advantages of the new system quite so narrowly and consider the benefits which it brings. The old system did not rely, as some like to mouth, upon 'player skill', but rather presented itself as extremely user-unfriendly and poorly implemented. Few people bothered with it, as such those that did felt like they got some sort of a greater 'reward' out of knowing how to, to some extent still, their application of it was extremely limited, perhaps saying at which 'inline' the opponent is - by the time they'd scan him down, he'd be long gone. HAIL, 20-second probe scan AVE!
Uuve Savisaalo Umbra Congregatio	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:47:00 - [521] Edited by: Uuve Savisaalo on 06/12/2006 23:48:38 .
Bellatrix VanFeldt	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:47:00 - [522] Originally by: James Snowscoran What I would personally like to see happen, is that if you get hold of a mission-critical item you get contacted by the agent and offered the missionrunners money for it instead. Makes sense to me. Mission gets finished, noone loses any standings, but the clever guy gets all the reward (bar npc bounties of course). I love it.
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:57:00 - [523] Originally by: Bellatrix VanFeldt Originally by: James Snowscoran What I would personally like to see happen, is that if you get hold of a mission-critical item you get contacted by the agent and offered the missionrunners money for it instead. Makes sense to me. Mission gets finished, noone loses any standings, but the clever guy gets all the reward (bar npc bounties of course). I love it. And where is the RISK that everybody (especially gankers) like to bring up in the risk/reward scenario? mission runner is aggroed by the rat, and all of his ratty friends, missionjumper hops in, pops the rat, who is still shooting at the mission runner, grabs the mission sensitive loot and bails when the missionrunner is still scrambled by the rat frigate that his ******* drones are too stupid to kill. Jumper gets the rewards, runner takes the risks. Sweet system, just not for the mission runner I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either.
Uuve Savisaalo Umbra Congregatio	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:59:00 - [524] Edited by: Uuve Savisaalo on 06/12/2006 23:59:16 Originally by: Flaming Lemming Sweet system, just not for the mission runner Mission runners were never the core constituency of eve. Perhaps that is a sign of the end-times? the sky, its falling
Oldgiffer Serial Killers	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:02:00 - [525] There are lots of things i dislike about the new patch. This however is possible the best thing that could have happened even if it is entirely accidental. Its been said many times adapt or leave. Pvpers have had to do it many times(in fact every patch). Most mission runners say they will simply leave. Go, noone will notice or care. You contribute nothing other than lag to the player community and you might aswell be playing a single player game. Level 4 missions have been a risk free isk windfall for too long. At least now you have some risk to go with your rewards. you have plenty of tools to overcome griefers. As many people have stated you simply need to move. But wait you want them to alter the game again so that you dont have to adapt. You all complain that you cant defend your cans form the horrible griefers. Well the miners used to say that about ore thieves and guess what they got can flagging. Has it helped them?. Most carebears want some kind of nanny state that protects them from interaction from other players. Its not griefing if they are making money killing your npcs or taking your loot just as ore thieves arent griefers. Just try to think about what you can do to fix the problem before we have to listen to another 20 page whine about omfg Im leaving they nerfed my risk free life. Eve isnt WOW and Im glad CCP have the good sense to keep it that way. I think stupid people should be made to learn, dont change the world to suit stupid people.
Oldgiffer Serial Killers	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:06:00 - [526] Originally by: Uuve Savisaalo At the same time, faster scan probing presents a myriad of applications on the battlefield, such as same-grid scanning in the middle of a fleet engagement that brings your close-ranged bralwers in the face of an enemy sniper fleet. One should not dismiss the advantages of the new system quite so narrowly and consider the benefits which it brings. The old system did not rely, as some like to mouth, upon 'player skill', but rather presented itself as extremely user-unfriendly and poorly implemented. Few people bothered with it, as such those that did felt like they got some sort of a greater 'reward' out of knowing how to, to some extent still, their application of it was extremely limited, perhaps saying at which 'inline' the opponent is - by the time they'd scan him down, he'd be long gone. HAIL, 20-second probe scan AVE! Exactly. Scan probes were broken. For pvp they were worthless unless an enemy was afk or just plain stupid. Now they are the useful tool they were intended to be. All this is just a happy coincidence which tbh has restored my faith in Eve after an otherwise awful patch to pvp.
Fink Angel Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:06:00 - [527] Originally by: Oldgiffer Most mission runners say they will simply leave. Go, noone will notice or care. You contribute nothing other than lag to the player community and you might aswell be playing a single player game. I think you've solved it there. Time for two shards. One for anything goes all lowsec or no sec grief and gank away. One where 0.5 or greater is actually safe and anyone who wants to go to 0.4 or lower for consensual PvP can. Less lag for all. People can play the way they want. Win - Win situation, no?
OldPueblo Gallente Defenders of Order	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:12:00 - [528] Originally by: Oldgiffer There are lots of things i dislike about the new patch. This however is possible the best thing that could have happened even if it is entirely accidental. Its been said many times adapt or leave. Pvpers have had to do it many times(in fact every patch). Most mission runners say they will simply leave. Go, noone will notice or care. You contribute nothing other than lag to the player community and you might aswell be playing a single player game. Level 4 missions have been a risk free isk windfall for too long. At least now you have some risk to go with your rewards. you have plenty of tools to overcome griefers. As many people have stated you simply need to move. But wait you want them to alter the game again so that you dont have to adapt. You all complain that you cant defend your cans form the horrible griefers. Well the miners used to say that about ore thieves and guess what they got can flagging. Has it helped them?. Most carebears want some kind of nanny state that protects them from interaction from other players. Its not griefing if they are making money killing your npcs or taking your loot just as ore thieves arent griefers. Just try to think about what you can do to fix the problem before we have to listen to another 20 page whine about omfg Im leaving they nerfed my risk free life. Eve isnt WOW and Im glad CCP have the good sense to keep it that way. I think stupid people should be made to learn, dont change the world to suit stupid people. And where will your rigs and affordable t2 items come from? Those with high NPC corp standings that got their standings from.... missions. They can invent rigs now because they get research points from... mission agents. They can make the t2 market more affordable because there are more t2 bpos out that they won in the lottery with research points gained from....agent missions. You didn't read the thread did you? Missions are important to EVE's economy and industry. Don't generalize, this isn't about making isk with level 4 missions. If anything, why not change the standings system.
OldPueblo Gallente Defenders of Order	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:14:00 - [529] Originally by: Fink Angel Originally by: Oldgiffer Most mission runners say they will simply leave. Go, noone will notice or care. You contribute nothing other than lag to the player community and you might aswell be playing a single player game. I think you've solved it there. Time for two shards. One for anything goes all lowsec or no sec grief and gank away. One where 0.5 or greater is actually safe and anyone who wants to go to 0.4 or lower for consensual PvP can. Less lag for all. People can play the way they want. Win - Win situation, no? Lol, nice. And leave the 24/7 gank PVP'ers to come up with their own ships and modules on that shard. That'll teach 'em to have blinders on.
Oldgiffer Serial Killers	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:16:00 - [530] Originally by: Fink Angel Originally by: Oldgiffer Most mission runners say they will simply leave. Go, noone will notice or care. You contribute nothing other than lag to the player community and you might aswell be playing a single player game. I think you've solved it there. Time for two shards. One for anything goes all lowsec or no sec grief and gank away. One where 0.5 or greater is actually safe and anyone who wants to go to 0.4 or lower for consensual PvP can. Less lag for all. People can play the way they want. Win - Win situation, no? As much as Id like to hear an end to the whiners a second shard would remove one of the great things about eve. We are all together and we have to work together to achieve things. Extra shards would just be creating WOW in space but on the bright side I think Id be on the lag free server. I dont think most of the people crying will leave, they just want to have their public whine then they will have to accept they dont have a risk free income anymore. Id like to welcome all of them to a multiplayer game where you arent protected from your own stupidity.
Mar Idoun Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:19:00 - [531] I don't see why high level missions can't be competed for. Agents could have a sort of Classified section offerring the rewards for missions. Everything else that is insanely profitable is competed for, 0.0 ores and ratting, t2 BPOs. This idea is flawed and rough but I think something could be worked out. It hinders farming at least-- and brings that player interaction that it seems CCP desires, not considering people with multiple accounts. and to pre-emptively counter people saying "don't tell me how to play Eve" -- I'm not, but I will argue that it seems against the point of MMOs to take part in the game in a way that secludes one from other players and you could never use any of the chat functions and it doesn't make a difference in the game play.
Mollyanna	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:21:00 - [532] Originally by: Oldgiffer Just try to think about what you can do to fix the problem I did, and the obvious solution was to quit paying real world money to be set up and handed out on a plate to gankbears by a company that pretends not to be a haven for griefing. The irony here is that although I originally had no interest in WOW, the fact that the folks trying to justify griefing here hate it sooooo very badly must mean it's astronomically harder to harrass and ruin the fun of other gamers in it. Congratulations, you and your like have not only successfully run off a formerly paying customer(and one stuck with 2 more months of pre-paid, unwanted service)and sold them completely on another MMORPG system! Maybe you should consider a career in marketing The more I watch this thread, the more it validates my decision to stop throwing good money after bad. WOW, here I come -M
Oldgiffer Serial Killers	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:21:00 - [533] Originally by: OldPueblo Originally by: Fink Angel Originally by: Oldgiffer Most mission runners say they will simply leave. Go, noone will notice or care. You contribute nothing other than lag to the player community and you might aswell be playing a single player game. I think you've solved it there. Time for two shards. One for anything goes all lowsec or no sec grief and gank away. One where 0.5 or greater is actually safe and anyone who wants to go to 0.4 or lower for consensual PvP can. Less lag for all. People can play the way they want. Win - Win situation, no? Lol, nice. And leave the 24/7 gank PVP'ers to come up with their own ships and modules on that shard. That'll teach 'em to have blinders on. I think its you who dont understand eve. Me and almost every older player I know has done missions and still will do then from time to time. Most have second accounts who do all the industrial things that are needed. Most pvpers play the whole game not just the one in a little bubble where you shoot npcs in perfect safety. The level 4s getting more difficult would not destroy pvp. Alliances dont struggle to produce the things they need in 0.0 or to defend whats theirs. But you seem to forget they play eve as a multiplayer game.
Rey Xavier Gallente Bluestar Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:21:00 - [534] Originally by: Fink Angel Originally by: Oldgiffer Most mission runners say they will simply leave. Go, noone will notice or care. You contribute nothing other than lag to the player community and you might aswell be playing a single player game. I think you've solved it there. Time for two shards. One for anything goes all lowsec or no sec grief and gank away. One where 0.5 or greater is actually safe and anyone who wants to go to 0.4 or lower for consensual PvP can. Less lag for all. People can play the way they want. Win - Win situation, no? Sounds good, but as already mentioned in the end the "grief" server will simply be empty in a few months. Players who play MMORPGs quite some time have probably experienced this in several games. Griefers simply don't like to be griefed - simple as that. =============================== Ihr pers÷nliches Kreditinstitut
Oldgiffer Serial Killers	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:23:00 - [535] Originally by: Mollyanna Originally by: Oldgiffer Just try to think about what you can do to fix the problem I did, and the obvious solution was to quit paying real world money to be set up and handed out on a plate to gankbears by a company that pretends not to be a haven for griefing. The irony here is that although I originally had no interest in WOW, the fact that the folks trying to justify griefing here hate it sooooo very badly must mean it's astronomically harder to harrass and ruin the fun of other gamers in it. Congratulations, you and your like have not only successfully run off a formerly paying customer(and one stuck with 2 more months of pre-paid, unwanted service)and sold them completely on another MMORPG system! Maybe you should consider a career in marketing The more I watch this thread, the more it validates my decision to stop throwing good money after bad. WOW, here I come -M Thats the attitude. Spit out your dummy and rush to the big cuddly carebear nanny state. Best of luck. Try not to get bored when you reach the level cap and realise the game is pointless because you never lose anything or really impact on the other players.
Fink Angel Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:24:00 - [536] Originally by: Oldgiffer As much as Id like to hear an end to the whiners a second shard would remove one of the great things about eve. We are all together and we have to work together to achieve things. What's with the "We are all together" all of a sudden? Noone will notice or care. We contribute nothing other than lag to the player community. No we aren't all together and no we don't work together to achieve things. Let's not beat around the bush here, I don't like your way and you don't like mine, so what's to lose? Gankers & Griefers can do what they want without anyone whining, and I can play a game I enjoy with PvE when I fancy it and PvP when I fancy it.
MMXMMX Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:28:00 - [537] Edited by: MMXMMX on 07/12/2006 00:33:05 Originally by: Bellatrix VanFeldt Originally by: Andrea Tesla 5b: Make an optional answer for the agent, reading "Sir/Mam, I got your marines/special delivery/slaves/pilot, but OtherPlayerXYZ stole it. Please gimme a warrant, so I can get back to you." - flagging the player who got your mission item, until your mission runs out. Excellent idea. The agent wil say to u . U ar the only 1 that i gave the location of the enemy forces ar My secret information was fore your eyes only . So dont come up with those stoopit yokes telling me another pilot or big corp was there to and stole the special delivery becouse i wil not believe u . Now go back and finish this top secret mission u lazy basterd :) woehahahahhahahahhahahha woehahahhahahahahahhahaahhahahahhahhahahaha 500 - Internal Error The server was unable to process your request. Support personel has been notified, no further action is needed.
Oldgiffer Serial Killers	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:29:00 - [538] Originally by: Fink Angel Originally by: Oldgiffer As much as Id like to hear an end to the whiners a second shard would remove one of the great things about eve. We are all together and we have to work together to achieve things. What's with the "We are all together" all of a sudden? Noone will notice or care. We contribute nothing other than lag to the player community. No we aren't all together and no we don't work together to achieve things. Let's not beat around the bush here, I don't like your way and you don't like mine, so what's to lose? Gankers & Griefers can do what they want without anyone whining, and I can play a game I enjoy with PvE when I fancy it and PvP when I fancy it. Im not saying we are glad to be together but its what makes eve good because you can do what you wish. nothing stops you from playing eve your way or me from playing mine. All it takes is a little effort. this is the part I mentioned in my other post. Making the game fit the person with the lowest effort levels just creates a boring game. Its good because its a challange and risky. Games like WOW you dont lose anything so many people suddenly realise they have no purpose. Like the miner who spends months mining so that he can get a bigger mining ship and then realises its all a waste of time(but wait they might release an even bigger mining ship).
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:30:00 - [539] Originally by: Trollin in the past 3 hours I have had griefers drop in on me 5 times, sometimes they kill the boss at the end of the mission while I am fighting the trash, sometimes they aggro the whole area and then warp out... Sounds like a lot more fun that actually doing the missions. Word. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Mollyanna	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:30:00 - [540] Well then, at least I might actually ACCOMPLISH something instead of just spinning my wheels in frustration for 66days watching griefers, gankers and orejackers take away and ruin every iota of forward progress. My idea of "having an impact" on other players is socializing and working together with them, not ruining thier game experience to the point where they start looking for the exit. -M

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