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ffs ccp, lock griefers out of missions.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:06:00 - [301] Originally by: Avon There is a big difference between playing the game in such a way as to mitigate the risks and asking for the game to be changed to make those risks go away or become optional. I understand the game just fine. Apparently not. You appear to be in favour of players being able to grief other players in a risk free way. Currently mission runners are at risk from having someone come into a mission area, steal critical mission loot, and the mission runner be able to do nothing to mitigate that risk. Apparently you don't understand this. Ergo, you do not understand the game.
Xaildaine	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:07:00 - [302] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Queen Hades OMG, I want cheap kills and people who do not want to be my cheap kills have to leave the game. Or, god forbid, learn to take some personal responsibility for their own safety. So how do we take responsibility for the safety of our mission objectives? We cant shoot the "Leet PvPer" or we get concorded.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:08:00 - [303] Originally by: Avon Or, god forbid, learn to take some personal responsibility for their own safety. High sec mission runners already take responsibility for thier own safety by fitting a ship in order to survive the mission. They CANNOT take responsibility for another player busting their mission complex and stealing mission critical loot, as there is no means for the mission runner to stop them. The most basic mechanics of this game seem to be beyond you.
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:09:00 - [304] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Queen Hades OMG, I want cheap kills and people who do not want to be my cheap kills have to leave the game. Or, god forbid, learn to take some personal responsibility for their own safety. You still don't get it, don't you? Casual players / weekend pvp'ers (such as me) want to log in, do mission stuff, log out. Done. They are not interested in your 23/7 - pvp - attitude and are also not interested in having made a level 4 mission a logistic problem where you have to wait for hours to get people around you to protect you from griefers.
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:09:00 - [305] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Queen Hades OMG, I want cheap kills and people who do not want to be my cheap kills have to leave the game. Or, god forbid, learn to take some personal responsibility for their own safety. right, back to this old chestnut again are we? missions are not economically viable if you have a lot of people there, you would make more isk/hr mining .... also, to make the whole killing rats thing go faster you have to setup your ship for them, which makes you easy pickings for a peerat .. alas, poor risk and reward, I knew you well
Xaildaine	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:12:00 - [306] Edited by: Xaildaine on 06/12/2006 14:12:49 Originally by: Raste I didnt read the whole thread so if this has already been mentioned I apoligize, but anyway...I hope mission runners get griefed and ganked straight out of empire. :) When the carebears leave empire they usualy go to 0.0 where of corse the likes of you are far to scared to go for fear of actualy getting into fight you might not win. The other place they go is out of EvE.. and if enough of them do this the market you so dearly love will grind to a halt leaveing you all "Leet PvPers" stuck pew pewing each other in your newb ships.. So in short if you have a clue you will see that your an idiot.. Dont think about that last sentence for to long .. your head will explode
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:13:00 - [307] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Queen Hades OMG, I want cheap kills and people who do not want to be my cheap kills have to leave the game. Or, god forbid, learn to take some personal responsibility for their own safety. To all the people who have tried to apply my above comment to mission running, read it again and take it in context. Actually, I'll help put it in context for you: OMG, I want cheap kills and people who do not want to be my cheap kills have to leave the game. Honestly, you people are grasping at straws. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Valan	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:13:00 - [308] I'm not siding with one opinion or another but trying to extend your epeen by saying you're PvPing is lame. This is not PvP because the other player cannot react so its not player verse player. /emote puts on Golum voice You're just sneaky little thieves. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:17:00 - [309] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Avon Originally by: Queen Hades OMG, I want cheap kills and people who do not want to be my cheap kills have to leave the game. Or, god forbid, learn to take some personal responsibility for their own safety. To all the people who have tried to apply my above comment to mission running, read it again and take it in context. Actually, I'll help put it in context for you: OMG, I want cheap kills and people who do not want to be my cheap kills have to leave the game. Honestly, you people are grasping at straws. WTF? what are you trying to say, that if we dont want to be cheap kills we should take personal responsibility for our own safety? ..FFS thats why they are in empire and not in 0.4 getting ganked by some pillock in a carrier alas, poor risk and reward, I knew you well
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:19:00 - [310] Eveyone can spin it as they choose, but bottom line is PVPers seem to always look for the loopholes to find new ways to grief, scam, gank, and come out with the sure win... then they refer to the whole 'Eve is a non-consentual pvp game' argument for their lame tactics. Its been quite a long road of sad tale after sad pathetic tale from pvpers who keep trying to force their gameplay style on others who will NEVER pvp and NEVER head to 0.0 for that matter. I'm not one of them, as I do all aspects of this game, but I have the courtesy to see all sides of our player base and can tell there is a flaw here. Simply saying its not shows you are quite selfish with your gaming peers. Those that make egotistical chestpopping arguments doesn't prove much in my book... it proves you can login and type a few words to act uber over others... wow, I get impressed each time. Okay, so now I'm sure I'll get some spinned out logic to prove I'm wrong, so please go ahead and rekindle what little self esteem you may have left.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:28:00 - [311] Originally by: Radioactive Babe Originally by: Avon Originally by: Queen Hades OMG, I want cheap kills and people who do not want to be my cheap kills have to leave the game. Or, god forbid, learn to take some personal responsibility for their own safety. right, back to this old chestnut again are we? missions are not economically viable if you have a lot of people there, you would make more isk/hr mining .... also, to make the whole killing rats thing go faster you have to setup your ship for them, which makes you easy pickings for a peerat .. So you counter an old chestnut with an old wives tale? Properly organized and executed your profits will increase if you do your missions in a well thought out team... but that is neither here nor there. I wouldn't want to disperse the illusions people use to convince themselvs they should stay solo in noob corps past the first few months. Personally, I see no problem with mission objectives being sa***uarded in secure containers. Anything else goes. Its not like this is anything new, there have always been a few people skilled with scanner and probe have done this, its just easier to do now. And frankly, I see a number of positive effects coming from this... as long as the mission objective is secure. Positive effects for most everyone but the solitary mission runner in a noob corp that is. But my sympathy for them is very, very limited.
Myyona Minmatar Thukker Mix	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:35:00 - [312] Thank God my mission running days are over and I got the standings I need. If I had to work under these new conditions I would most likely quit.
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:36:00 - [313] Originally by: Ranger 1 And frankly, I see a number of positive effects coming from this... as long as the mission objective is secure. Positive effects for most everyone but the solitary mission runner in a noob corp that is. But my sympathy for them is very, very limited. That is the major problem. Ppl warp in and kill your mission objective so you have to abandon the mission and you loose standings. Ship lovers click here

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:42:00 - [314] Thread cleaned of a few unsavory bits. Please remember to stay civil. ___ Email Us (Report a bad post) \| Forum Rules \| Website EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER

Kurt Russet	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:46:00 - [315] EVE, even though is a multiplayer game, has always provided some degree of single-player element, in the form of missions that could be completed solo. This is an important factor for new players who gets into EVE and starts grinding with a view to increase their faction/ agent/ NPC Corp ratings to move on to higher level missions, or to get more cash. Allowing somebody else, to enter a mission area, without consent, and hijack the mission/ mission objective, from the mission runner, is entirely against this soloing aspect of the game; it destroys it. A new player can no longer advance his/her ratings, and even loses his/her standing for not completing a mission. An argument against this may be to ask the player to join a corp, and ask the corp mates to help out. This may be viable for a few missions, but interest may not be sustainable over a long run, simply because the rewards are not high enough for low level agent missions. Corp mates will find themselves motivated to help out people with higher level agents. I humbly request CCP to do something to address this issue and bring back this soloing element, which is critical for game appreciation for new players. For those who argue that EVE is a multiplayer game, I agree. But EVE is more than a multi player game, it offers a unique gaming experience for solo players as well. Do we want to lose it?
Derelyk	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:56:00 - [316] The key thing to remember is, the mission runner is doing the mission for somebody. the griefer isn't interfering with the player, he's directly interfering with the corporation that the mission runner is doing the mission for. In effect the mission jumper(s) is causing direct harm to the corporation that has hired the mission runner. So give the guy(s) jumping the mission a red flag to all members of the mission runners corp, and all members of the corporation (npc) that the mission runner is doing the mission for. If the guy breaks the mission, steals the objective make the red flag last 4 times as long (or whatever). That keeps the risk of getting jumped by a mission runner, and provides risk to the guy jumping the mission.
Cerwyn Taraman Minmatar Phoenix Tech Industries	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:59:00 - [317] Originally by: Kurt Russet For those who argue that EVE is a multiplayer game, I agree. But EVE is more than a multi player game, it offers a unique gaming experience for solo players as well. Do we want to lose it? So true - and the valid point is this: SHOULD the Developers care if someone wants to PAY monthly and login and NOT interact with anyone else? Tell me how this affects you (the hardcore PVPers, griefer, ganker, pirate whatever) and makes the game unplayable for you? They are paying the same as you, why should the devs nerf them to oblivion just because they don't want to act like its an MMO and instead treat it as a massive open-ended single player game. Also, the biggest issue i've seen with this new ability to get into deadspace mission pockets quickly and disrupt gameplay is how EVE's aggro management (or lack thereof) works. In many MMOs, whoever deals the most dmg to a mob results in "threat" to that mob, and the mob will change targets. Other actions such as healing (logistics in EVE's case) can provoke threat and result in change of aggro. In EVE's mission system, it seems that the NPCs are entirely focused on the mission runner. For example, try ganging with a friend who has a mission, warp in to certain missions before they do (use the acceleration gate first) and you will see how the NPCs ignore you, and often times the NPCs arent even spawned yet! However, when the player who has the mission warps in, the NPCs will start attacking the mission holder and spawn in if they don't exist already. Allowing people access to your missions gives them what I consider to be an exploitable way to make isk at ZERO risk to themselves. If there is not a PVP solution to the issue (and for all of you who say War Dec - many of the mission runners are in NPC corps and cannot do so - but thats another argument entirely), then they should not have free access to shoot high bounty mission NPCs with zero risk of getting shot back at. The player can't shoot them, the NPCs won't shoot them, and CONCORD ignores their actions as long as they dont touch the player. In what twisted world is that at all fair to other gameplay mechanics where you at least have a way of fighting back?
The Snowman Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:03:00 - [318] Edited by: The Snowman on 06/12/2006 15:05:42 Edited by: The Snowman on 06/12/2006 15:04:08 [ Originally by: Kurt Russet For those who argue that EVE is a multiplayer game, I agree. But EVE is more than a multi player game, it offers a unique gaming experience for solo players as well. Do we want to lose it? QFT, In addition, Having a steady income of new players is vitally important to CCP and all players of EVE. If new players get griefed like this the moment they step into the game they will have no problems un-installing and going off to play something else. They probably wont ever read or even post on the forums. So while existing players may not care about the concerns expressed in this thread, ultimatly its in their (and CCP's) best interest to make a new players experience as fun and enjoyable as possible until they are at least capable of making informed decisions and have some ISK that they can put to risk. <------------> Poker RPG 60 jumps 'Flop' by..
migwar Lawless Industries	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:08:00 - [319] The problem as i see it is, A mission runner spends months increasing agent level and quality up to a point where they can use a good lv4 agent, All that time skill and isk investment pays off when you can run the missions. Another player, trains up for a day to use the probes and can gate crash players A's mission. He risks nothing, if he kills the rats he gets the bounties and the loot with no flagging. A player in my corp was scanned down in 2 mins with a 12AU probe.This makes griefing so much easier, if the scanning was more hit and miss im sure griefers would get bored.
Plymer Ization ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:13:00 - [320] My favourite generalization/stereotype is that everyone who runs missions for ISK is a carebear. STFU and get real.
The Snowman Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:19:00 - [321] Originally by: Plymer Ization My favourite generalization/stereotype is that everyone who runs missions for ISK is a carebear. STFU and get real. lol - good point. Actually, while I do like to do missions for ISK, I also do it for standings (for jump clones) I do it for loot to get minerals, and to practise several different setups to see what my ship can handle. I suppose I am a bit carebearish at the moment, missions cover lots of different things at once so that i DONT have to be such a carebear ;) <------------> Poker RPG 60 jumps 'Flop' by..
Ralkuth	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:20:00 - [322] For the record, I agree with the original poster. I'm not sure what the thought was behind making missions scannable, but it was a bad idea. Please fix it. This is a waste of my time. I can go start working through the backlog of games that I haven't had time to play because I'm spending $25 a month on two Eve accounts. Ralkuth
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:29:00 - [323] I agree with the OP. If you go into a mission you are fitted for that mission. Not only does the other player have an advantage in having a PVP setup, but you have to fight the rats aggroed on you in addition to them. I'd love to try out the lvl3 missions I have access to, but running them in low sec is suicide. Getting more people to help isn't a solution. If you are running missions it is usually because the other members of your corp on not online atm. Not to mention you have to split the profit even more. Let players find missioners, but don't make it so easy for them. Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Tiodus Gallente City of Certitude	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:40:00 - [324] Edited by: Tiodus on 06/12/2006 15:41:02 Yeah I want them out too. Previous poster justified this enough.
Corrino Irulan Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:44:00 - [325] Originally by: Oveur Two things to take into consideration here, you are supposed to be able to scan out people, whether they are doing missions, mining or hiding. On the other hand, it's not supposed to be too easy to find everyone. TomB is looking into the scanner balancing specifically around this, let's see what his findings are. I hope you guys find an elegant solution to this. I would not like to spend hours upon hours on difficult exploration, with it's low rate of succes, just to have your hard work and time invested be nullified by a 'relatively simple' ship scan from such a person. As far as scanning goes, it just feels completely unbalanced under those circumstances.
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:45:00 - [326] man this thread hasdegenerated shame on you all. all the pvpers that call mission runners carebears / all the mission runners that call all pvpers griefers etc, your all as bad as each other and insults dont progress this debate. i hope each thread with an insult (including carebear) gets deleted. basically to summarise everything.. missions should be able to be scanned, just not as easy as it is now, and not as hard as it was before (no plate scane plane, make it a ball). that is all this boils down too. pvprs may hate "carebears" but as far as im concerned, if they stay in high sec they are perfectly entitled to play a 1 player game if they wish to pay to do so, why cant pvpers grapsp that concept- do they just want fresh bait to easily kill to add to their killboards- come on guys ffs. equally mission runners shouldnt insult pvpers, all pvpers are not griefers. if you mission run expect some interference as long as its not TRULY griefing. *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
Princess Porno	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:50:00 - [327] CCP won't reply, they are on their pirate and griefing accts scanning out mission runners and stealing loot. File a petition everytime some griefer or prat interferes with your mission. Keep the petitions alive, don't let them just fade away. Absolutely bury CCP in the petitions, they'll get so fed up with the petitions that they'll figure something reasonable out -or at least something that keeps them from being buried up to their eyes in petitions. Gameplay/Agent Mission In Progress -that's the one to use or Harassment.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Titurius Sabinus	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:51:00 - [328] Originally by: The Snowman In addition, Having a steady income of new players is vitally important to CCP and all players of EVE. This is what it is going to come down to. It is not going to be decided by what the PvPer wants or what the Mission Runner wants. It is going to come down to money. If CCP can handle less revenue due to mission runners canceling their accounts then nothing changes. But if CCP wans to hit that magic 40000 people on line at once mark, and the revenue that goes with it, they will have to do something about the griefing of Mission Runners in high sec. A lot of people it seems don't understand this isn't really their game. The game belongs to CCP. And CCP will do what is best for CCP and the growth of the game, not for you and the way you think the game should be.
The Snowman Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:52:00 - [329] Originally by: slothe pvprs may hate "carebears".. Off topic but, why DO pvpers hate carebears anyway?.. how do they effect pvp'ers so much that this dark abyss of hatred has evolved for them? <------------> Poker RPG 60 jumps 'Flop' by..
Andrea Tesla Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:58:00 - [330] Originally by: The Snowman Originally by: slothe pvprs may hate "carebears".. Off topic but, why DO pvpers hate carebears anyway?.. how do they effect pvp'ers so much that this dark abyss of hatred has evolved for them? Because we (the carebears, which is everyone, who is not constantly PvPing) do not play the game, as they (the PvPers) "know" that it is meant to be played. Arguments were long ago substituted with calling anyone, who got a valid complaint a "carebear". Ms. Tesla

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