This change is a lot more than just freighters. Not having to turn on the DC after every jump - yes please. Not to mention it now frees up a low slot if I want to experiment without having to sacrifice all hull resistances.

Why not give freighters more CPU now? IIRC the reason they were kep low was to prevent them from fitting damage controls. Now you could just knock their hull HP down a bit to mesh with the hull resist bonus they're getting, and allow them to fit damage control as an option because it's no longer going to make quite as huge a difference.

The big issue with freighters in this is that they are getting buffed to compensate for the nerf to DCU (a mod they cant fit in the first place) and with the size of the structure hitpoints as huge as it is and with the main way of tanking being bulkheads it means this buff is massive on freighters. Add into this the fact the freighters have already been buffed to compensate for the lack of a DCU when they had their teircide the other year this means they are getting buffed twice for the lack of a DCU.

Freighters are the extreme and the most obvious example of why a direct buff to hull resists on all ships is not a very good idea. I honestly think no ships need even more built in tank and that this DCU idea needs to be scrapped and rethought.


I mean, off the top of my head if CCP want to make the DCU less powerful why not split it up into shield/armour/structure mods so you can select which area of tank you want. You could then add more faction and officer mods and spread them around to provide even more options in the LP markets too. This way you don't have to give an arbitrary buff to everything that will be overpowered on a number of ships out there.

Now look at that. Two thirds of this thread got deleted - not even moved elsewhere, but actually deleted - because it was not the type of feedback CCP wanted? I now feel silly that I have spent time trying to figure out how modified resist profiles and a passive DCU would affect gameplay. Somebody might later unilaterally decide that my conclusions from this work are unwanted too, so I am not going to bother posting them here (not that I believe to be able to offer super extra special insight, mind you).

"Do what you want, you're going to do it anyway."

The AG mob turned it into a shitfest as they always do without posting anything helpful, just "hur dur tearz".

gankers received the tiniest of buffs so it's time for another massive nerfbat to ganking

So you fixed a completely broken, uncounterable mechanic. This does not justify a massive blanket buff to freighter EHP. Not speaking about all the other gank targets as well. Gankers punish people for stupidity. Untanked people oblivious to their surroundings are prime targets. Now you are seriously nerfing ganking by giving all gank targets a free EHP buff.

During the past few years CCP has shown a consistent trend to nerf ganking. Every "buff" has been met with several nerfs, so the predator and prey environment is already out of whack.

You're forgetting that many ganked freighters have a bunch of loot which is the whole point of the gank to begin with (unless you're bored and gank an empty JF).

Yes, more manpower will be required and it will increase the floor of when it's profitable to gank based on cargo contents (so, more than 1b in a freighter to maybe 1.5b before profitability? Not sure how many extra ships). Suicide ganking is a zero-risk exercise, so there should be more of a cost to essentially get billions in loot that's still quite an amount even if split between more people.

Good job, nice execution.

Still though, the real issue with suicide ganking isn't so much the kill part, it's the endless bumping beforehand... EHPs don't actually matter that much when you put them in comparison with other parts of a suicide gank.

The AG mob turned it into a shitfest as they always do without posting anything helpful, just "hur dur tearz". That the posts countering them had actual feedback dosn't halt the fact that CCP will delete them as they were quoting drivel. Best tactic we can do from now is continue to post facts and numbers to back up our case and if the AG mob try to derail again with shitposting just posts the stats again and tell them to stfu and get constructive.

We had the same type of people in the battleship tiercide thread and the best tactic we found was to post fits and results of the changes on said fits and every time one of them popped up spouting rubbish we shot them down with facts and continued debating the changes in a constructive manner that resulted in several changes being made.

Saying that these changes are lazy is selling the devs short. They've come up with a good solution the the ubiquity of the DC without obsoleting it and at the same time made new fits possible.

The discourse between the ganking and anti-ganking communities has been reprehensible and you've been collectively punished for your behavior, and rightfully so.

HTFU had never been more warranted than in this thread

As someone using EFT/Pyfa a lot, I love DCs becoming more optional on most ships. This makes fitting more fun! It becoming passive is also a very welcome change, and also makes them more interesting to fit on cloaked ships.

As the creator of the Anti-ganking channel and Anti-ganking.net, I must admit I'm surprised by this sudden significant buff to freighter EHP though. It makes me wonder if this is a workaround for having trouble finding a good fix for horribly overpowered bumping that often supertackle freighters for hours. Bumping seems difficult to fix, as I still haven't heard about a solution that I really believe in. But it really needs a fix, and when it gets one, I believe freighter ganking will change quite dramatically, more than this big buff to EHP will cause. But until then, this EHP buff might serve as a workaround, albeit not a good one, as it for instance doesn't affect the orca or bowhead that much, two ships that are also often supertackled by bumping (since they should always fit DC previously anyway).

Regarding the IFFA, I do believe raising it from 17 to 20 CPU will break several of my fits. That said, a CPU difference of over 43% between it and T2 is quite a lot, so it's understandable you want to close this gap somewhat. And since some hull resist will be kept, breaking some fits might be an acceptable loss. And I just realized that it might take some time before I get used to all the new options from new faction/officer DCs.

A comment to some gankers here - freighters should never be balanced around being profitable to gank, as this turns them into mainly a resource to be exploited, similar to rats. The thing about rats is that they don't have feelings and a playstyle that should be respected. Sometimes freighters decide to haul enough to give gankers a profit opportunity, but balancing should never be about giving gankers the ability to expect a steady stream of such opportunities. That would turn ganking into 'ratting'.

Eve isn't a place that worries about feelings too much, but to tell you the truth, what real life cops would stop the aggressor, then let his buddies haul off the goods? Maybe Concord should recover the loot from illegal kills and return it to its owner.

The big issue with freighters in this is that they are getting buffed to compensate for the nerf to DCU (a mod they cant fit in the first place) and with the size of the structure hitpoints as huge as it is and with the main way of tanking being bulkheads it means this buff is massive on freighters. Add into this the fact the freighters have already been buffed to compensate for the lack of a DCU when they had their teircide the other year this means they are getting buffed twice for the lack of a DCU.

The AG mob turned it into a shitfest as they always do without posting anything helpful, just "hur dur tearz".

How much EHP is too much EHP for some pleb's hauler? One million? Two million? Ten million? If everyone in CODE. on all their dps characters are needed is that too much? What about everyone in miniluv? Freighter ganking is in no way too easy currently, that's why there is SO LITTLE OF IT.

Just ten more people?
JUST ten more people?
Just TEN MORE people?
DO YOU EVEN LISTEN TO YOURSELF?

If everyone in CODE is needed then maybe CODE has too few active people? You and your group have repeatedly been saying 'htfu' and 'get more friends' as a blanket reply to anything anyone who disagreed with you would bring up while continuously derailing all discussions you didn't like. Karma is not without a sense of irony, it seems.

Just ten more people?
JUST ten more people?
Just TEN MORE people?
DO YOU EVEN LISTEN TO YOURSELF?

in the worst possible scenario

People are upset over how hypocritical CCP has been in recent times and how one sided CCP has been towards ganking.

It was spelled out numerous times that they were designed to have lowslots but never enough CPU to use a DC unit. Never. Never. Never.

It was reasoned they had so much HP already, that any bonus to hull would be over the top.

So when DC units get nerfed, and a portion of their former power gets passively put into everybody's hull points, how does it make sense to give that bonus to a ship that was specifically designed to not carry it? They can't lose what they never had and never could have.