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Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
   |
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:13:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ryysa on 26/04/2007 17:20:19
The Definitive Guide to Electronic Warfare
First of all, let's see what I classify as EW. Your classification might be different.
This guide is split depending on EW types:
1. Warp Scrambling
2. Stasis webifying
3. Target Jamming (ECM)
4. Sensor Dampening
5. Tracking Disrupting
6. Target Painting
7. Cap Draining (NOS/Neuts)
8. Chance calculation for falloff.
9. Multiplier calculation with stacking penalties.
10. Conclusion
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:17:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ryysa on 26/04/2007 13:28:41
1. Warp Scrambling
Short Description:
Warp scrambling prevents another ship from entering warp. This is the primary EW type used in any kind of pvp, because it allows you to prevent your target from escaping from an unfavorable situation.
Methods of application:
Modules - The modules are called warp scramblers and warp disruptors, and are fitted into midslots. They come in different varieties, with the important paremeters being scrambling range and scrambling strength.
Mobile Warp Disruptors - These are often referred to as "bubbles". They are static objects wich can be deployed and anchored anywhere in space. They are characterized by their scrambling radius and come in multiple flavors. Small, Medium and Large. Mobile Warp Disruptors can only be used in 0.0 space. Bubbles can also pull ships out of warp in different positions than intended, but more on that later.
Interdictor spheres - Interdictor spheres work the same way as Mobile Warp Disruptors, however they can be deployed on the fly and have a fixed scrambling radius of 20km. As with anchorable bubbles, usage of interdictor spheres is restricted to 0.0 space.
Working Mechanism:
Regarding modules, the best way to describe the workings would be to view every module as having a certain amount of "scramble points" (scramble strength). Let's say each ship starts out with 0 warp points and each scramble point deducts from that number. If the amount of warp points a ship has is negative, it can't enter warp. So if you apply a warp disruptor with strength 1 to a ship with a base amount of 0 warp points, it ends up with -1 warp points, thus it can't warp.
Bubbles (both anchorable and interdictor) work slightly different. First of all, the number of points is irrelevant here. Each bubble has a scrambling radius. If the ship's distance to the disruptor is less than the disruptors scrambling radius, then the ship is considered warp scrambled and cannot warp.
Another specific point about bubbles is that they are able to modify the place where ships exit warp. Ships can warp from object A to object B. Now draw an imaginary line AB through object A and object B. If line AB intersects a bubble, which is in the same grid as object B, at the time when the ship starts the warp procedure at object A, then regardless at what range the ship warped to object B, it will end up out of warp where line AB intersects the bubble, on the edge of the bubble which is closest to object A.
Deductions - If the bubble is not in the same grid as object B, then nothing will happen, and if the bubble is not deployed before the target initiates warp at object A, it will not be affected by the bubble. Also note, that object A and B are not the same as celestial objects. Object A is the warp entry point and Object B is whatever object was warped to. This means celestial object or bookmark.
Skills affecting:
Modules:
Propulsion Jamming - 5% Reduction to capacitor need per skill level.
Mobile Warp Disruptors:
Anchoring - Reduces time to deploy the bubble.
Interdictor Spheres:
Interdictors - Increases the ROF of the sphere launcher by 10% per skill level.
Specialized ships:
Ships with bonus to scramble are gallente
Arazu/Lachesis - Recons, get 20% bonus to warp disruptor/scrambler range per recon level.
Alternatively, Interdictors are a ship class dedicated to deploying Interdiction Spheres.
Counters:
Counters to the module versions are Warp Core Stabilizers or WCS. Each WCS adds one warp point to the ship. Meaning that if a ship has one WCS fitted and no natural bonus to Warp Core strength, you will need 2 scrambling points to give it a negative amount of warp points and thus scramble it.
In case of ending up in a bubble, there are no direct counters, but due to bubbles having limited range, a speedy ship configuration is an indirect counter.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:18:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ryysa on 26/04/2007 16:08:41
2. Stasis webifying
Short Description:
Stasis webifiers decrease the speed of a given ship.
Methods of application:
Modules - Stasis webifiers are fitted into midslots and their most important paremeters are Range and speed reduction amount.
Drones - Webifying also comes in drone form. However, webifying drones have a fairly weak effect - one good module is better than five drones. They also only come in the large variety, which makes them sluggish and due to their low hitpoints very vulnerable to takedown.
Working Mechanism:
This is fairly simple. Each stasis webifier has a certain speed reduction amount.
The formula would be:
V = V0 * (100% - S)
Where V0 is the ship's speed, and S the stasis web speed reduction parameter.
There are stacking penalties involved on webifiers. Please refer to section 9 of the guide on how to calculate the speed reduction multiplier of multiple webifiers against one target.
Skills affecting:
Propulsion Jamming - 5% Reduction to capacitor need per skill level.
Specialized ships:
Ships with bonuses to stasis webifiers are from the minmatar and the bloodraider races.
Huginn, Rapier - Minmatar recons. Both get a bonus of 60% per recon ship level to stasis webifier range.
Cruor - Blood Raider frigate, 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier range per level.
Ashimmu - Blood Raider cruiser, 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier range per level
Bhaalgorn - Blood Raider battleship, 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier range per level
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:19:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Ryysa on 26/04/2007 13:51:37
3. Target Jamming (ECM)
Short Description:
ECM, when successful causes the target to lose all of their locks and in most cases be unable to re-lock for 20 seconds.
Methods of application:
Modules - There are two types of modules. The more widely used modules are Target Jammers, which upon success cause a lost lock and an inability to lock anything for the duration of their cycle time (currently 20 seconds)
The other modules are ECM Bursts, which in case of success cause everything in their area of effect to lose lock, but don't prevent the target from reaquiring the lock during the duration of the cycle. Also only one ECM burst may be active at the same time, meaning that fitting more than one is fairly pointless.
The most important characteristics for modules are Cycle time, Jamming strength, Optimal Range and Falloff Range.
Drones - ECM also comes in drone form. There are light, medium and heavy ECM drones. The difference is most notably their speed and their jamming strength. With the recent changes, drones are the most viable ECM method for non-specialized ships.
Working Mechanism:
Jamming is chance based. Every ship in eve has a characteristic known as sensor strength.
The chance to jam a target with one jammer is illustrated by the following formula:
C = J/S * 100%
Where J is the jamming strength of your jammer, S the sensor strength of the target ship and C the jamming chance in %.
The chance to jam a target with multiple jammers is a simple deduction of Bernoulli's formula:
C = (1-(1-J/S)^n)*100%
Where J is the jamming strength of your jammer, S the sensor strength of the target ship, n the number of jammers and C the jamming chance in %.
Computing the chance to jam with different jammers with different jamming strength against multiple targets is more for the realm of combinatorics enthusiasts, and is of little value here, so we shall not explore this further.
Jammers also have an optimal and a falloff range, please refer to section 8 on how to calculate the falloff multiplier.
Note that multiplying the strength of the jammer by the falloff multiplier is incorrect, because the checking for falloff and the checking for jamming chance are two separate events - you must multiply the result from the chance calculation by the falloff multiplier to get an accurate answer.
Skills affecting:
Electronic Warfare - 5% Reduction to capacitor need per skill level.
Signal Dispersion - 5% bonus to strength of all ECM jammers per skill level.
Long Distance Jamming - 10% bonus to optimal range per skill level.
Frequency Modulation - 10% bonus to falloff per skill level.
Specialized ships:
ECM is the realm of the caldari.
Griffin - Frigate, gets 10% bonus to Jammer strength and 10% bonus to Jammer capacitor need per level.
Blackbird - Cruiser, gets 10% bonus to Jammer strength and 20% bonus to Jammer optimal range per level.
Scorpion - The only battleship in game truly dedicated to a form of EW, gets 10% bonus to Jammer strength and 20% bonus to Jammer optimal range per level.
Rook - Non-cloaking recon, gets 10% reduction to Jammer capacitor use and 20% bonus to Jammer optimal range per caldari cruiser level and 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per recon ship level.
Falcon - Cloaking recon, gets 10% reduction to Jammer capacitor use and 20% bonus to Jammer optimal range per caldari cruiser level and 10% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per recon ship level.
Counters:
There is a direct counter available - ECCM, which gives a percentual increase to a ship's sensor strength, making it hard to jam it.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:20:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ryysa on 26/04/2007 13:36:58
4. Sensor Dampening
Short Description:
Sensor dampening reduces a ship's locking speed and locking range.
Methods of application:
Modules - Sensor dampeners are midslot modules, the main characteristics of which are Targeting Range multiplier, Scan Resolution multiplier, Optimal, Falloff.
Drones - Sensor dampening drones come in three flavors, from small to heavy, however due to heavy stacking penalties their effects are fairly limited, and they are rarely used.
Working Mechanism:
Each sensor dampener reduces a targets locking speed and range.
To calculate the Optimal range reduction for one dampener used against a target, the following formula is used:
R = R0*M
Where R0 is the targeting range of the ship with targeting range bonuses applied, M the targeting range multiplier of the dampening module or drone and R the resulting targeting range.
Calculating the locking speed reduction is slightly different due to the fact that the relation between locking time and scan resolution is not quite linear.
The formula for locking time is:
T = (10000/(M*X))/(asinh(Y))
Where X = scan resolution of your ship with positive bonuses applied, Y = sig radius of the target, M the signature resolution reduction multiplier of the dampening module or drone and T the locking time.
Sensor dampeners are subject to stacking penalties and have a falloff range, please refer to sections 8 and 9 to learn how to calculate the falloff chance and the dampening multiplier with more than one module.
Another important thing to note is that if your locking range becomes shorter than your distance to your currently locked target, then you will lose the lock.
Skills affecting:
Sensor Linking - 5% Reduction to capacitor need per skill level.
Signal Suppression - 5% bonus to effectiveness of sensor dampeners per skill level.
Long Distance Jamming - 10% bonus to optimal range per skill level.
Frequency Modulation - 10% bonus to falloff per skill level.
Specialized ships:
Dampening is the domain of the Gallente.
Maulus - Frigate, 5% bonus to dampening effectiveness per level.
Celestis - Cruiser, 5% bonus to dampening effectiveness per level.
Arazu, Lachesis - Recons, 5% bonus to dampening effectiveness per cruiser level.
Counters:
The direct counter to dampening are sensor boosters and signal amplifiers, which increase your scan resolution and locking range. |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:21:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Ryysa on 26/04/2007 13:52:31
5. Tracking Disrupting
Short Description:
Tracking disruptors severely impair the effectiveness of turrets by heavily reducing their optimal range and tracking speed.
Methods of application:
Modules - Tracking disruptors are midslot modules. Their most important parameters are optimal range multiplier, tracking speed multiplier, optimal range and falloff range.
Working Mechanism:
Each tracking disruptor reduces the tracking speed and optimal range of turrets.
The effect can be calculated with the following formula for both tracking speed and optimal range:
R = R0*M
Where R is the resuling optimal range or tracking speed, R0 the optimal range or tracking speed of the ship with positive modifiers applied and M being the optimal range or tracking speed multiplier of the tracking disruptor.
Tracking Disruptors are stacking penalized and also have a falloff range. Please refer to the stacking penalty and falloff sections for details on how to calculate the multiplier with more than one module and to see how the modules operate within falloff.
Skills affecting:
Weapon Disruption - 5% Reduction to capacitor need per skill level.
Turret Destabilization - 5% bonus to effectiveness of tracking disruptors per skill level.
Long Distance Jamming - 10% bonus to optimal range per skill level.
Frequency Modulation - 10% bonus to falloff per skill level.
Specialized ships:
The specialized ships for tracking disruptors come from the amarr race.
Crucifier - Frigate, 5% bonus to tracking disruptor effectiveness per level.
Arbitrator - Cruiser, 5% bonus to tracking disruptor effectiveness per level.
Curse/Pilgrim - Recons, 5% bonus to tracking disruptor effectiveness per cruiser level.
Counters:
The direct counter to tracking disruptors are tracking computers and tracking enhancers.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:21:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Ryysa on 26/04/2007 14:56:45
6. Target Painting
Short Description:
Target Painting increases the signature size of the target.
Methods of application:
Modules - Target Painters are midslot modules, the main characteristics of which are signature increase amount, optimal range and falloff.
Working Mechanism:
The working mechanism of target painters is fairly simple.
To calculate the increase that a target painter gives to the signature radius of an object, we use the following formula:
S = S0 * (100% + P)
Where S0 is the objects original signature radius, P the target painters signature increase bonus and S the final signature radius with the painter applied.
Please note that target painters are subject to stacking penalties and have a falloff range, please refer to sections 8 and 9 to see how these affect the effectiveness of multiple painters or when painters are used outside of their optimal range.
Skills affecting:
Target Painting - 5% Reduction to capacitor need per skill level.
Signature Focusing - 5% bonus to effectiveness of target painters per skill level.
Long Distance Jamming - 10% bonus to optimal range per skill level.
Frequency Modulation - 10% bonus to falloff per skill level.
Specialized ships:
The target painting bonus is part of minmatar ships.
Vigil - Frigate, 5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level.
Bellicose - Cruiser, 7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level.
Huginn/Rapier - Recons, 7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per cruiser level.
Counters:
None
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:22:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ryysa on 26/04/2007 17:26:47
7. Cap Draining (NOS/Neuts)
Short Description:
Cap draining with Nosferatus or Neutralizers reduces your targets cap and in some cases adds it to your own.
Methods of application:
Modules - NOS and Neuts are highslot modules, the main attributes of which are range, cap amount neutralized or drained and cycle time.
Drones - There are neutralizing drones available in various sizes.
Working Mechanism:
The mechanic for these is simple, each of them have a cycle time. Every cycle time seconds the cap amount is drained from the enemy.
In case of NOS, the cap is added to your own, in the case of neuts you sacrifice a certain amount of energy but get a much bigger effect on the targets capacitor.
Skills affecting:
Energy Emission Systems - Decreases cap usage amount by 5% per level.
Specialized ships:
NOS-specialized ships come from the amarr and bloodraider races.
Curse - Amarr recon, Gets 20% bonus to cap amount transferred and 40% bonus to Nosferatu and Neutralizer range per recon skill level.
Pilgrim - Amarr recon, Gets 20% bonus to cap amount transferred per recon skill level.
Cruor - Blood Raider frigate, Gets 10% bonus to cap amount transferred per skill level.
Ashimmu - Blood Raider cruiser, Gets 10% bonus to cap amount transferred per skill level.
Bhaalgorn - Blood Raider battleship, Gets 10% bonus to cap amount transferred per skill level.
Counters:
There are no direct counters to nos, however, an indirect and viable counter is using a cap injector. |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:22:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Ryysa on 26/04/2007 17:27:31
8. Calculating chances with falloff.
Many of the EW modules have a falloff range.
A module is 100% effective from 0 to optimal. At optimal+falloff the effectiveness drops to 50% and at optimal +2xfalloff it is 0%. This means that at optimal+falloff there is a 50% chance that the module will fail and not do anything.
To determine the chance of success in falloff range, we use the following formula:
C = 1-((R-O)/(2*F))
Where R is the range from you to the target, O the optimal range of the module, F the falloff range of the module and C the chance of success. This only applies if the target is between optimal and optimal+2x falloff.
As a result, you will get a multiplier. This is a chance multiplier. In case of jammers, just multiply the calculated chance by it. In case of other modules, this will simply show you the chances of the module succeeding at a given range.
P.S. This is assuming falloff with EW modules is linear.
9. Calculating multipliers with stacking penalty.
A few of the EW modules are stacking penalized.
So if calculating the effect multiplier with multiple modules, you need to keep the stacking penalty in mind.
For calculating the multiplier we use the general stacking formula:
M = M1*S1*M2*S2*...*Mn*Sn
Where M(1..n) are the multipliers of dampeners and S(1..n) are stacking penalty multipliers for module n. Currently the stacking penalties for the first four modules are as following:
S(1) = 1
S(2) = 0.8708860
S(3) = 0.5705831
S(4) = 0.2829552
The formula to calculate the stacking penalty for the nth module is:
S(n) = 0.5^[((n-1) / 2.22292081) ^2]
Where n is the number of the module modifying the same attribute and S the stacking multiplier applied to that module.
Also keep in mind, that you need to sort the modules according to their strength in descending order. Meaning if you have 3 modules with different strengths, then the strongest module will suffer no stacking penalty and the weakest module will suffer the stacking penalty for the third module.
10. Conclusion
I hope this guide makes people better understand EW. Due to the length of it, I am really sure there are multiple spelling and perhaps factual mistakes. Any information regarding those will be appreciated and I will try to fix it as soon as humanly possible. |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:23:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ryysa on 26/04/2007 13:23:53
Reserved in case I run out of room in the future when editing this. Feel free to point out mistakes now 
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:30:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Zalathar on 26/04/2007 13:40:29
Edited by: Zalathar on 26/04/2007 13:28:07
first btw
loving the guide, all the people who say all you do is troll are all wrong. Hope to see more guides in future.
this should must definatly made into a sticky as it is pure quality, everything brought into easy bite sized and easily understandable chunks.
~~~~~~
sig currently being remastered (it was too large)
~~~~~~ |
Demonique
Minmatar
WOLFPACK DELTA
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:35:00 -
[12]
reserving this space for my comments once ive finished reading 
|
VJ Maverick
Caldari
Maverick Specialized Services
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:36:00 -
[13]
Ryysa, I hate you because you're such an abrasive jerk on the boards, but damn.. this is a nice and very well put together guide .
|
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:37:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: VJ Maverick
Ryysa, I hate you because you're such an abrasive jerk on the boards, but damn.. this is a nice and very well put together guide.
hahaha
I am still editing the thing though, so refresh sometimes...
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
velmistr Ecco
Caldari
InNova Tech Inc
Xelas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:40:00 -
[15]
Nice guide deserving sticky :)
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 26/04/2007 13:34:39
3. Target Jamming (ECM)
Rook - Non-cloaking recon, gets 10% bonus to Jammer strength and 20% bonus to Jammer optimal range per caldari cruiser level and 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per recon ship level.
Rook
Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer capacitor use and 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range per level
|
Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:43:00 -
[16]
40% per level on the Huginn and Rapier, not 20% ;)
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jaGuza
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:47:00 -
[17]
Superb guide Ryysa, should clear things up for a lot of people (including myself)! Just a quick question. Does trackingdisruptors, when in faloff really have a chance to hit? Thought it worked like turrets and become less effektive. Could only find one little mistake, the frigate that gets the trackingdisrupt bonus is named Crucifier, not Coercerer. Anyway, please add some glue to this thread and I hope we'll se more guides like this in the future!
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Padma Sky
Caldari
Lumen Et Umbra
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:48:00 -
[18]
An efford like this need a sticky. Or at least, to avoid too many sticky, put just one sticky that link the most usegull guides ( like the one about ship setups). This post doesnt deserve to be lost ...
_____________________
Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers. |
Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:51:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ryysa
Specialized ships:
The specialized ships for tracking disruptors come from the amarr race.
Coercer - Frigate, 5% bonus to tracking disruptor effectiveness per level.
Arbitrator - Cruiser, 5% bonus to tracking disruptor effectiveness per level.
Curse/Pilgrim - Recons, 5% bonus to tracking disruptor effectiveness per cruiser level.
the coercer is the destroyer and has no bonus, i think you mean the cruicifier 
~~~~~~
sig currently being remastered (it was too large)
~~~~~~ |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:58:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ryysa on 26/04/2007 14:00:47
Huginn, Falcon, Rook, Crucifier FIXED, thank you for pointing them out!
Originally by: jaGuza
Superb guide Ryysa, should clear things up for a lot of people (including myself)! Just a quick question. Does trackingdisruptors, when in faloff really have a chance to hit? Thought it worked like turrets and become less effektive.
Yes, that's exactly how it works. A chance... The module effectiveness does not get reduced directly. If it works in say 50% falloff it is just as effective as it would be in optimal, however there is a 25% chance it would not work at all, thus giving no effect.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
Sparta Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 14:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ryysa
The other modules are ECM Bursts, which in case of success
Correct me if i am wrong, but doesn't ECM burst work differently to other ECM in the form that it is not chance based? The description says it breaks locks on all ships whose sensor strength is lower than the ECM strength.
==
Above comments are my personal views
Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
|
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 14:17:00 -
[22]
Outdated description.
It is chance based.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
VJ Maverick
Caldari
Maverick Specialized Services
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 14:25:00 -
[23]
Does the skill "Signal Dispersion" affect ECM drones?
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Hugh Ruka
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 14:40:00 -
[24]
hmm ... Energy Emission systems decreases cap used by NOS/NEUT only. So has no effect on NOS and makes NEUT more usable with each level:
"Operation of energy transfer array and other energy emission systems. 5% reduced capacitor need of energy emission weapons per skill level."
Originally by: JP Beauregard
The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls.... 
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Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 14:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Does the skill "Signal Dispersion" affect ECM drones?
Not as far as I know.
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
hmm ... Energy Emission systems decreases cap used by NOS/NEUT only. So has no effect on NOS and makes NEUT more usable with each level:
"Operation of energy transfer array and other energy emission systems. 5% reduced capacitor need of energy emission weapons per skill level."
Thank you, fixed.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Lrrp
Minmatar
Gallente Mercantile Exchange
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 14:52:00 -
[26]
Thanks Ryysa for putting the guide togeather. Not quite clear on what this means (under sensor dampners):
"Another important thing to note is that if your locking range becomes shorter than your distance to your currently locked target, then you will lose the lock."
Oh and do you have a boyfriend as I like brainy women
|
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 14:55:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lrrp
Thanks Ryysa for putting the guide togeather. Not quite clear on what this means (under sensor dampners):
"Another important thing to note is that if your locking range becomes shorter than your distance to your currently locked target, then you will lose the lock."
This is best illustrated with an example. For example, you have a target locked at 50km and your locking range is say 75km. Now, you get sensor dampened, so that your locking range becomes 20km. That means that you will lose lock on the target which was 50km from you.
Quote:
Oh and do you have a boyfriend as I like brainy women
Well, I hope this is in character as I don't quite fancy men OoC.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Mudkest
MetaForge
Ekliptika
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 14:56:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Mudkest on 26/04/2007 14:53:16
nice guide, but the huginn, rapier and belicose get a 7.5% bonus to targetpainting not 5%, and rapier/huginn get 60% weber range bonus not 40 ;)
-Duct tape might hold the univurse together, but it's coffee that makes it tick |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 15:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mudkest
Edited by: Mudkest on 26/04/2007 14:53:16
nice guide, but the huginn, rapier and belicose get a 7.5% bonus to targetpainting not 5%, and rapier/huginn get 60% weber range bonus not 40 ;)
Argh, i trusted ernest blindly! I will never trust you again ernest :(((
Ok, fixed for real now =)
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Mudkest
MetaForge
Ekliptika
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 15:00:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
40% per level on the Huginn and Rapier, not 20% ;)
Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 60% bonus to stasis webifier range
60% ...
-Duct tape might hold the univurse together, but it's coffee that makes it tick |
Lrrp
Minmatar
Gallente Mercantile Exchange
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 15:08:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Lrrp
Thanks Ryysa for putting the guide togeather. Not quite clear on what this means (under sensor dampners):
"Another important thing to note is that if your locking range becomes shorter than your distance to your currently locked target, then you will lose the lock."
This is best illustrated with an example. For example, you have a target locked at 50km and your locking range is say 75km. Now, you get sensor dampened, so that your locking range becomes 20km. That means that you will lose lock on the target which was 50km from you.
K, clears that up as I was reading statement from user of dampner perspective and not the targeted ships perspective.
Originally by: Ryysa
Quote:
Oh and do you have a boyfriend as I like brainy women
Well, I hope this is in character as I don't quite fancy men OoC.
All I can go by is the avatar Darl'n 
|
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 16:13:00 -
[32]
Updated some stuff regarding webbers (stacking penalty!).
Thanks go to moroti from #eve-online on QuakeNet for pointing it out.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
WredStorm
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 17:10:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ryysa
Currently the stacking penalties for the first five modules are as following:
S(1) = 1
S(2) = 0.8708860
S(3) = 0.5705831
S(4) = 0.2829552
Minor point, just so you can clean it up, not to quibble at all... you only provided the first four stacking nerf multipliers, not five.
Thanks very much for writing this up... answered some questions for me. Might I suggest giving some examples in conjunction with some of the formulas? For example, what is the standard time it might take someone in a cruiser to lock another cruiser and then with a typical sensor damp how does that change? Such examples might well be beyond the scope of what you wanted to put together, but it would really help flesh it out fully, IMO.
Wred
-----
Think out of the box, consider passive shield tanking your Myrmidon, you'll be pleasantly surprised! |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 17:20:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Ryysa on 26/04/2007 17:16:26
Originally by: WredStorm
Originally by: Ryysa
Currently the stacking penalties for the first five modules are as following:
S(1) = 1
S(2) = 0.8708860
S(3) = 0.5705831
S(4) = 0.2829552
Minor point, just so you can clean it up, not to quibble at all... you only provided the first four stacking nerf multipliers, not five.
Fixed.
Quote:
Thanks very much for writing this up... answered some questions for me. Might I suggest giving some examples in conjunction with some of the formulas? For example, what is the standard time it might take someone in a cruiser to lock another cruiser and then with a typical sensor damp how does that change? Such examples might well be beyond the scope of what you wanted to put together, but it would really help flesh it out fully, IMO.
I'll seriously consider that, especially with the more complex examples (jamming, dampening, webbing, tracking disruption).
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
K'reemy G'udness
Delicious
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 17:25:00 -
[35]
Why the hell isn't this stickied yet? Did you email the MODS? You should if you haven't already.
This is the best guide for EW since the outdated article in EON #3 or whatever.
BUMPITYBUMPITYBUMPITYBUMPITYBUMPITYBUMPITYBUMP
Sincerely,
K'reemy
---
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Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 17:28:00 -
[36]
Originally by: K'reemy G'udness
Why the hell isn't this stickied yet? Did you email the MODS? You should if you haven't already.
Hmm, I am not quite sure if it would be right to ask the mods to sticky it, I believe if it deserves a sticky, it will be stickied because a mod will see it and decides it is worth a sticky...
However, if someone has a different opinion, I can surely mail the mods, just don't want to push the subject or hint that I require special attention of some kind ;)
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Sunny Mooninite
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 17:58:00 -
[37]
Excellent Job. I know you're a big old forum ***** who gets dissed alot for many many posts, but I think this shows just how involved you are. Kudos.
I get sick of being able to only find ECM info, so I've been waiting for this.
<rant>
What's up with the definition of "EW". I agree with your definition, but CCP seems to think differently.
I'm talking about the -10% EW penalty in Dampner Rigs for example. I think they're saying that you take a 10% ECM signal strength hit, but for some reason they call it EW.
Am I crazy? Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
</rant>
---
Haha, you can't unread my post! |
K'reemy G'udness
Delicious
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 18:05:00 -
[38]
Edited by: K''reemy G''udness on 26/04/2007 18:06:09
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: K'reemy G'udness
Why the hell isn't this stickied yet? Did you email the MODS? You should if you haven't already.
Hmm, I am not quite sure if it would be right to ask the mods to sticky it, I believe if it deserves a sticky, it will be stickied because a mod will see it and decides it is worth a sticky...
However, if someone has a different opinion, I can surely mail the mods, just don't want to push the subject or hint that I require special attention of some kind ;)
No, don't humbly wait around for an invitation, or this will get lost among all the many nerf threads. You have to email them to get it stickied, as they're too busy looking for threads to lock or sigs to **** with. [email protected] IIRC.
If you don't, I will tbh.
EDIT: Also, this really belongs on eve-wiki.com as well.
Sincerely,
K'reemy
---
|
smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 18:12:00 -
[39]
Edited by: smallgreenblur on 26/04/2007 18:11:24
Originally by: Ryysa
Mobile Warp Disruptors - These are often referred to as "bubbles". They are static objects wich can be deployed and anchored anywhere in space, frequently ending up looking like a pair of *******. Many a happy hour has been passed by an otherwise bored gatecamper staring at these electronic ****. They are characterized by their scrambling radius and come in multiple flavors. Small, Medium and Large. Mobile Warp Disruptors can only be used in 0.0 space. Bubbles can also pull ships out of warp in different positions than intended, but more on that later.
Fixed it for ya mate.
Also, good guide
sgb
Edit: ok bleeping out those words is a little too overzealous ccp...
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Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 18:50:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sunny Mooninite
Excellent Job. I know you're a big old forum ***** who gets dissed alot for many many posts, but I think this shows just how involved you are. Kudos.
Well, my approach tends to be technical in nature, and I generally don't like inefficiency a lot and often am fairly blunt. Dunno, I don't believe in smalltalk on internet, most important is to get the point across and fast, since everyone has limited time these days.
Quote:
Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
Well, I don't really get it ;)
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2007.04.26 18:50:00 -
[41]
See, this is why I always expect the best, most complete informed answer whenever I see you've replied to a thread.
Thank you, Ryysa.
-J
---------------------------------
"He who 'hah hahs' last, 'hah hahs' best." - Nelson
Balanced != Nerfed |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 04:56:00 -
[42]
AFAIK, webbers didn't use to be stacking-nerfed, but they became stacking-nerfed once the (relatively recent) change to istabs/nanos/overdrives (and removal of PIVent rigs) was made.
Also, AFAIK, Target Painters still have NO stacking-nerf... so you can pile up as many of them on a target you want, and increase even the signature of an interceptor to dreadnought levels if you get enough painters on it.
_
MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 12:15:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Ryysa on 27/04/2007 12:13:50
Originally by: Akita T
AFAIK, webbers didn't use to be stacking-nerfed, but they became stacking-nerfed once the (relatively recent) change to istabs/nanos/overdrives (and removal of PIVent rigs) was made.
Mmh, not so sure about that, since I never checked.
Quote:
Also, AFAIK, Target Painters still have NO stacking-nerf... so you can pile up as many of them on a target you want, and increase even the signature of an interceptor to dreadnought levels if you get enough painters on it.
That was changed when the new module stacking penalty was introduced a long time ago.
They do have a stacking nerf, I am really sure of that, since I tested it a long while ago.
So unless they un-stacknerfed them, they are still stacking nerfed.
EDIT:
I remember now...
Target painters got stacking nerfed at the same time as sensor boosters etc...
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 13:23:00 -
[44]
Fixed the chance calculation on falloff with the "famous curve" :)
After doing some research, treating falloff as linear is not quite right, it does not make a too big difference, but for the sake of correctness, falloff is not linear.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 13:35:00 -
[45]
It makes a somewhat noticeable difference for damps (and target painerts) due to their huge falloff.
That +sig is stacking penalized can be seen best with shield mods. They have the same effect as penality and when you stack multiple you get less of a sig increase than you should due to this.
One question regarding painters - I heard that they have no effect on a target with MWD active, however I never tested that. Anyone can confirm/deny?
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Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 13:36:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Ryysa on 27/04/2007 13:33:11
Ugh.... need to test that one... I really don't know now.
Then again, when their MWD is active their sig is already HEAUGE, much bigger than 4 painters of any variety could give.
So it doesn't really matter.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 21:02:00 -
[47]
Added examples for jamming and dampening, if needed can probably add others too, these seemed like the most obvious ones.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Morgaine Legray
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 21:19:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Morgaine Legray on 27/04/2007 21:21:26
lol ryssa, good guide, but don't use mathmatical terms you don't know.
Do you even know what Bernoulli's equation is? I'm having trouble seeing how you applied it to jamming, correct me if im wrong but isnt it an equation that relates fluid flow and pressure to a constant?
I guess in a more general forum its a differential equation and a way to solve it.
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Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 21:24:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Ryysa on 27/04/2007 21:22:35
Originally by: Morgaine Legray
lol ryssa, good guide, but don't use mathmatical terms you don't know.
Do you even know what Bernoulli's equation is? I'm having trouble seeing how you applied it to jamming, correct me if im wrong but isnt it an equation that relates fluid flow and pressure to a constant?
Mmh, might have slightly mistyped it, or his name was written a bit different in my language, I'll research into it and correct it.
Just checked. I did write it right for my language, "Bernoulli Valem" in my language, you can hit it up in google, it'll come up with a bunch of probability stuff.
I'll try to find out how exactly this is spelled in english.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Thanos Mortis
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 22:00:00 -
[50]
Nice guide, must have taken a while to put together
|
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 22:03:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Ryysa on 27/04/2007 22:00:04
Originally by: Thanos Mortis
Nice guide, must have taken a while to put together
Oh it did, I wrote it in parts in notepad over 3 days or so when I had free time.
That's not counting the last two days that I have been editing and adding stuff to this thing...
But this was long overdue, I am surprised that in two years no one did something similar... Or if it was done, I totally missed it...
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Morgaine Legray
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 22:41:00 -
[52]
Ah ok ryssa, so a bernouili process :) I too am well educated in mathematics, (currently attending grad school to get a masters in mechanical engineering) and I don't know much about statistics. But "the Bernoulli" equation I am very familiar with, and that has no application here. But the other statistics stuff which is outside of my knowledge obviously does have scope here. I was completely unaware Bernoulli even had scope in statistics! Learn something new every day I guess.
Ps, I wasnt trying to educate you, just trying to get some clarification or see if you pulled this stuff out of your ass 
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Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 23:31:00 -
[53]
Well, as you can see I did not, and I also did not call it "The Bernoulli Equation" did I? :)
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Kua Immortal
RSP Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.04.28 02:46:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Kua Immortal on 28/04/2007 02:46:57
Just wanted to ask a quick q. before i read on and forget. When you say interdiction spheres can be dropped on the fly, do you mean during warp? I have no experience with them.
And regarding warp bubbles and the grid. I've often wondered exactly what the grid is. I understand ships will only show up on the overview and therefore be visible in space if they are inside the grid, as well as other objects (at least I assume this is the case). But what shape does the grid take - is it a sphere? If so of what radius?
Many thanks :).
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Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.28 03:14:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kua Immortal
Just wanted to ask a quick q. before i read on and forget. When you say interdiction spheres can be dropped on the fly, do you mean during warp? I have no experience with them.
Nono, not in warp, but any other time :)
Quote:
And regarding warp bubbles and the grid. I've often wondered exactly what the grid is. I understand ships will only show up on the overview and therefore be visible in space if they are inside the grid, as well as other objects (at least I assume this is the case). But what shape does the grid take - is it a sphere? If so of what radius?
Many thanks :).
Well, I wish I could answer that question, I really can't, I doubt any people can really. Grids tend to be irregular. It's not a sphere, and it's in no way dependant on your ship.
This is a question for the devs, people have for a very very long time tried to figure out grids, and have failed.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
|
Jacques Archambault
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
|
Posted - 2007.04.28 22:24:00 -
[56]
Added this thread to the Ships & Modules Guide Index here
-Jacques
forum rules | [email protected] | Our Website!
|
|
Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.28 23:37:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Ryysa on 28/04/2007 23:37:28
Originally by: Matiaj
Yeah, just figured it out and edited my post, but too late. :)
Thanks for the fast reply anyway.
Ryysa, maybe you could add a line about that in your guide ? It's not that obvious, and quite important for anyone who plans to use a dictor.
Uuh, It doesn't really concern the scope of the guide, and I thought it is common knowledge...
I'll see if I can perhaps change the sentence around some.
EDIT:
I read the part about it and errm... Well, frankly the way it's stated, it doesn't put a lot of emphasis on it.
But this minor details is way beyond the scope of this guide, it would be more suited for an interdictor guide.
Remember, this is a guide to electronic warfare, so in case of dictor spheres, the only really interesting thing for this guide is how they work, not the minor details of rate of fire on dictors and when dictors can activate their probe launcher.
It should be fairly common knowledge, that you can't really activate a module which "deploys" or shoots something while being in warp... That and I have 50 characteres left in the warp scrambling part, so an interdictor tutorial doesn't really fit there all too well...
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Matiaj
|
Posted - 2007.04.29 00:22:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Matiaj on 29/04/2007 00:20:25
Well, it's true that the bubble launcher actually works like any other offensive module. But the secondary effect - a dictor pilot being able to warp out of his own bubble - is quite surprising if you haven't thought about it beforehand, and I think many new players haven't.
But dictors require quite a few skillpoints anyway, so I agree that by the time a new player can board one, it should be common knowledge for him.
Hope to see more guides from you in the future. :)
(Speed guide ? Mods & rigs choice for optimal speed & agility, manual piloting while keeping range, etc. PvP footages ! Well, this is mostly learnt by actual experience, but... )
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Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.29 04:25:00 -
[59]
I believe Farjung made a rather impressive speed guide...
I'll try to perfect this one first. PvP footage, well i have 60 gigs of fraps, but I'm too lazy to make movies from it, neither could I make something that hasn't been done before. Also my interests are mainly in music, I'd probably spend ten times longer on making the soundtrack and mixing/cutting it than on the movie itself :P
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Ming Mongol
|
Posted - 2007.05.01 10:38:00 -
[60]
Very inoformative guide; one query,
When fitting a dampner on the fitting screen I notice my Sig Resolution drops as well as target range; does this mean the dampner affects the users ship as wel as the targets ?
|
sandamar
Gallente
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2007.05.01 11:13:00 -
[61]
Hello
Very good guide, i found answers to different question.
So free bump, and let's hope they will put it sticky.
|
WredStorm
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2007.05.01 13:43:00 -
[62]
Ryysa,
I'm not sure if you'd want to mention or link to it at all, but yesterday I found a great website calc for helping people figure out sensor dampeners and how they stack, etc. You can find it here if you want to take a look.
Wred
-----
Think out of the box, consider passive shield tanking your Myrmidon, you'll be pleasantly surprised! |
Eraggan Sadarr
Caldari
Phoenix Tribe
5th Column
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 13:32:00 -
[63]
Great guide Ryysa
This has really clarified some concepts for me, thx.
Keep up the good work.
Sincerely
Eraggan
|
stoicfaux
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 20:12:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 27/04/2007 20:56:43
The other modules are ECM Bursts, which in case of success cause everything in their area of effect to lose lock, but don't prevent the target from reaquiring the lock during the duration of the cycle. Also only one ECM burst may be active at the same time, meaning that fitting more than one is fairly pointless.
Just to be clear: If an enemy drone loses lock due to a Burst ECM, the enemy drone carrier can simply order the drone to re-attack immediately?
Excellent guide, btw.
|
bwill220
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 20:34:00 -
[65]
Quote:
The other modules are ECM Bursts, which in case of success cause everything in their area of effect to lose lock
So ECM burst is all or nothing, or is it a seperate chance for each ship with a lock.
|
Devon Hunt
|
Posted - 2007.05.03 06:46:00 -
[66]
Very nice guide Ryysa!
I have a question though: If you manage to target jam a ship and immediately after that you are destroyed/unlock/warp away/cloak, the ship remains jammed for the full cycle of jammers (20s) or is unjammed in the moment you loose lock?
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.05.03 07:08:00 -
[67]
Originally by: stoicfaux
If an enemy drone loses lock due to a Burst ECM, the enemy drone carrier can simply order the drone to re-attack immediately?
Yes.
Originally by: bwill220
So ECM burst is all or nothing, or is it a seperate chance for each ship with a lock.
Seperate for each ship. It works just like a normal jammer, exept that it is AOE and only breaks locks. It's chancebased depending on the ecm burst strength/ship sensor strength relation.
One thing to note about ECM burst is, btw, that apparently the falcon and rook ship boni do NOT work with the module, but the scorpions bonus is. Couldn't verify that myself though.
Originally by: Devon Hunt
If you manage to target jam a ship and immediately after that you are destroyed/unlock/warp away/cloak, the ship remains jammed for the full cycle of jammers (20s) or is unjammed in the moment you loose lock?
Fully cycle. You can, for example, jam with a falcon and cloak right afterwards.
|
velmistr Ecco
Caldari
InNova Tech Inc
Xelas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.03 11:14:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Aramendel
One thing to note about ECM burst is, btw, that apparently the falcon and rook ship boni do NOT work with the module, but the scorpions bonus is. Couldn't verify that myself though.
I can verify that neither falcon nor blackbird has any bonuses with cetus ecm burts. Scorpion has strength and range bonuses. I've bug reported it - still no response.
|
Halock
|
Posted - 2007.05.03 17:41:00 -
[69]
Good guide...sticky?
|
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.05.04 10:56:00 -
[70]
Originally by: WredStorm
Ryysa,
I'm not sure if you'd want to mention or link to it at all, but yesterday I found a great website calc for helping people figure out sensor dampeners and how they stack, etc. You can find it here if you want to take a look.
Wred
Why, sure... knowledge is power! :)
Originally by: stoicfaux
Just to be clear: If an enemy drone loses lock due to a Burst ECM, the enemy drone carrier can simply order the drone to re-attack immediately?
Excellent guide, btw.
Correct, unless carrier gets ecmbursted also, then it has to relock too.
I am not 100% sure on the effect of ECM burst on drones, needs to be checked.
Also any of your "new" aggression will count as the trigger.
For example, if you are shooting someone with a gun, then you reload it and re-activate it, you trigger a "new" aggression.
If you have a module already cycling it doesn't count as "new" aggression.
Originally by: Halock
Good guide...sticky?
Well, the mods don't think so, I've mailed them :)
However they were nice to me and put the guide into the guide index sticky.
Oh and, I'm kinda MIA right now, so I'm sorry if I take forever to reply sometimes.
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Dowey
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2007.05.16 15:34:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Dowey on 16/05/2007 15:33:30
Originally by: Demonique
reserving this space for my comments once ive finished reading
something tells me he/she didn't finish reading
Nice guide btw very well explained
Dowey |
The'Chosen
|
Posted - 2007.05.16 15:36:00 -
[72]
Fantastic guide - thank you. The only thing missing in the jamming section was a quick note about race specific ECM modules. ie. Caladari are susceptible to Gravimetric etc.
Great guide - thanks you!
|
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.05.16 15:56:00 -
[73]
Originally by: The'Chosen
Fantastic guide - thank you. The only thing missing in the jamming section was a quick note about race specific ECM modules. ie. Caladari are susceptible to Gravimetric etc.
Great guide - thanks you!
Hmm, perhaps I should add this indeed, however the ECM section is getting way too long, I'm running out of room there due to the character limit.
I will see what I can do about it, perhaps I can shorten some other part...
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.05.24 22:38:00 -
[74]
Added some more info on stasis webifiers.
Also added examples for stasis webifying and target painting.
If anyone has a good suggestion how to reasonably show the effect of tracking disruptors on turrets, I'm all ears :)
Preferrably, something where the calculation is already done
I was thinking something in the line of a scenario where a tracking disruptor would mean a chance between hitting and not hitting.
But how to illustrate it best? using optimal range or tracking speed?
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Lindee Cruz
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 23:19:00 -
[75]
What a great Guide. ECM is what i want to do in Eve and this is going to help alot. Thanks
|
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 23:21:00 -
[76]
Hehe, you bumped my other guide too :)
I'm glad you found this one!
And you're welcome, I hope this helps you get started.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask, I'm around every now and then.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 00:51:00 -
[77]
Since people are showing interest in this... did a couple updates:
* Better worded the way falloff works.
* Added modules and rigs which affect certain EW types, also mentioned talisman implants in case of NOS/Neuts.
* Added a pagelong example about the effect of tracking disruptors.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 01:17:00 -
[78]
do you need a troll? I think i can help you there hehe 
Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism.
Originally by: Dianabolic
We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 01:19:00 -
[79]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
do you need a troll? I think i can help you there hehe
Hehe, I think we can do that in other threads, this one has been been fairly constructive so far :P
But if you can find any spelling mistakes in the guide, you can troll me with those, have fun :D
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Jack Icegaard
The Omega Project
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 02:42:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
do you need a troll? I think i can help you there hehe
Hehe, I think we can do that in other threads, this one has been been fairly constructive so far :P
But if you can find any spelling mistakes in the guide, you can troll me with those, have fun :D
Being a few days from finishing my training for the Lachesis i find this guide very helpful, thx.
In the example where a Huginn damps a falcon you write
"Falcon signature resolution after lvl5 ..."
"Falcon signature resolution after dampeners..."
I troll you with "scan resolution"
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 04:14:00 -
[81]
Thank you for pointing that out.
I fixed it everywhere within the guide, it was a bit more than just those three places. If you find any more, feel free to notify me :)
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
FarScape III
|
Posted - 2007.06.12 18:08:00 -
[82]
Thnaks for the info, I got a question, do ECM's work at let's say about 7k or even 12k?
They are out of range of the Bursts and way under the optimal for the others.
If some one can stay at 12k even if i web them or whatever, how can I jam?
Do what you want to EVE, as long as nothing fun is taken away and anything new is fun.
A Minmater City... Cool! |
Skuld OdinsDottir
|
Posted - 2007.06.12 18:58:00 -
[83]
thank you very much :-)
BAD VISTA |
Samson Simpson
|
Posted - 2007.06.12 21:10:00 -
[84]
Great article Ryysa thanks for your work on it!
I am curious on the other effects of target painters. Faster lock time is a pretty straight forward concept but what is this about the tracking bonus? I have heard that there is increased chance to hit a ship which has a larger signature radius but haven't seen any real numbers on this. Any input?
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Khel'tar
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 06:13:00 -
[85]
How do damps work regarding a target that has you locked? For what I've picked up around the place, if you're already lock (by them) the damps don't work...
I'm getting the picture this is incorrect (I probably misunderstood the person that explained it to me).
Also, if you're locking me and I get my evil damps onto you before you finish, what happens to your lock? (ie. start over with new lock time, or continue lock for percentage of damped lock time, or continue lock)
Much appreciated, I'm changing over from minmatar and their incredibly useful EW.
--
Achura, the best stats. Pity it had to be caldari.
Gallente 4tw. |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 10:08:00 -
[86]
If they get a lock, you damp them and you are within their reduced targeting range - nothing happens.
If they get a lock, you damp them and you are outside their reduced targeting range - the loose lock.
Lets say they need 6 seconds to target you normally and 60 seconds while being dampened. If you damp them in the middle of their locking time (after 3 seconds therefore) they'll need 30 secs to complete the lock. If you damp them after 5 secs they will need 10 secs to complete the lock.
And so on. Assuming you are still within targetting range of cource.
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 13:11:00 -
[87]
Originally by: FarScape III
Thnaks for the info, I got a question, do ECM's work at let's say about 7k or even 12k?
They are out of range of the Bursts and way under the optimal for the others.
If some one can stay at 12k even if i web them or whatever, how can I jam?
You have the common misconception that anything "below" optimal range is bad.
A target can not be "below" optimal range in eve.
If your optimal is marked at 100km, the entire range from 0km to 100km is the optimal range. So an ECM with an optimal range of 100km will work just as well at 0km as it will at 100km.
Same goes for any other module in eve. The reason why certain turrets hit badly at extremely low ranges is because their tracking is insufficient, not because of anything associated with their optimal range.
Quote:
I am curious on the other effects of target painters. Faster lock time is a pretty straight forward concept but what is this about the tracking bonus? I have heard that there is increased chance to hit a ship which has a larger signature radius but haven't seen any real numbers on this. Any input?
Best would be for you to take the damage computations spreadsheet and play with it.
Basically, each turret has a signature resolution and every target has a signature radius. If the target's signature radius is smaller than the turret's signature resolution, then chance to hit is reduced. If the target's signature radius is larger than the turret's signature resolution, then chance to hit is increased.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Agent Li
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 13:53:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: FarScape III
Thnaks for the info, I got a question, do ECM's work at let's say about 7k or even 12k?
They are out of range of the Bursts and way under the optimal for the others.
If some one can stay at 12k even if i web them or whatever, how can I jam?
You have the common misconception that anything "below" optimal range is bad.
A target can not be "below" optimal range in eve.
If your optimal is marked at 100km, the entire range from 0km to 100km is the optimal range. So an ECM with an optimal range of 100km will work just as well at 0km as it will at 100km.
Same goes for any other module in eve. The reason why certain turrets hit badly at extremely low ranges is because their tracking is insufficient, not because of anything associated with their optimal range.
Quote:
I am curious on the other effects of target painters. Faster lock time is a pretty straight forward concept but what is this about the tracking bonus? I have heard that there is increased chance to hit a ship which has a larger signature radius but haven't seen any real numbers on this. Any input?
Best would be for you to take the damage computations spreadsheet and play with it.
Basically, each turret has a signature resolution and every target has a signature radius. If the target's signature radius is smaller than the turret's signature resolution, then chance to hit is reduced. If the target's signature radius is larger than the turret's signature resolution, then chance to hit is increased.
I guess the question I have is this:
Let's say I have the max skills for the various ECM skills. I'm Caldari, and flying a Rook. I fit one of each racial ECM jammer, and an ECM Burst II.
Sure, if I can lock people first, the racial jammers have a decent range, and a chance to jam.
But if they lock me first (as say, an interceptor locking me to warp scramble me), they can stay well outside the range of the ECM Burst - it's essentially useless, and since he already has the lock, my jammers don't do any good against him.
------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 14:05:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Agent Li
Sure, if I can lock people first, the racial jammers have a decent range, and a chance to jam.
How does it matter if you lock them first or not ?
Quote:
But if they lock me first (as say, an interceptor locking me to warp scramble me)
Again, it does not matter if they lock you first or not.
Quote:
they can stay well outside the range of the ECM Burst - it's essentially useless.
Correct.
[quite]and since he already has the lock, my jammers don't do any good against him.
Err, wrong, if you succeed a jam chance on him while he has you locked, he will lose the lock and be unable to lock ANYTHING for 20 seconds.
I hope this clears up your confusion
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Augeas
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 14:32:00 -
[90]
Does ECM Burst have any effect upon a lock in progress? |
Agent Li
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 14:48:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Ryysa
Err, wrong, if you succeed a jam chance on him while he has you locked, he will lose the lock and be unable to lock ANYTHING for 20 seconds.
I hope this clears up your confusion
It sure does! Thanks!
------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 15:47:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Augeas
Does ECM Burst have any effect upon a lock in progress?
It should. But it probably won't indicate for a bit.
Same with dampeners, if you're locking and get dampened below damping range, it says in a while "attempt to target xxx failed".
Won't give my head for this though, feel free to test it.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Mai'Shin
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 23:51:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Aramendel
Teh Answer
Cheers, that helps a lot.
Also, thanks to the OP, great guide.
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.14 15:43:00 -
[94]
Hehe, I'm glad aramendel hoes this thread when I'm gone
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Vitrael
Stormriders
Fimbulwinter
|
Posted - 2007.06.27 17:58:00 -
[95]
Awesome guide. Thanks very much Ryysa.
I would like to see more about the effectiveness of target painters while using turrets if you ever get into that!
----------
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.28 15:46:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Ryysa on 28/06/2007 15:45:33
That's kinda hard to show properly. Basically it flat out increases your chance to hit, however that's not very useful, since if your chance to hit is 1%, and you boost it to 2% it's not going to make a huge amount of difference.
I guess I'll try to run some numbers, however not now, I'm rather busy these days (fulltime job + studies), perhaps on the weekend...
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Seriya
Caldari
RSP Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.07.11 00:46:00 -
[97]
Great guide, contains a lot of hard-to-find information - sticky it!
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Llyando Autora
Pyrrhus Sicarii
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.15 09:40:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Llyando Autora on 15/07/2007 09:41:42
One comment on ECM chance. Back before they nerfed ECM by 0.5, it was possible for a rook to get an ECM strength of 13 or so, putting it over the sensor strength of many small ships. However despite this, whilst the target was still inside optimal it was possible to not get a jam; indicating that there is a maximum J/S after which the chance is a fixed amount. COuldnt belive it the first time it occured in combat so tested with corp mates later and it confirmed the initial results.
Not sure if this has changed with the nerf, but probably still worth testing. IIRC a rook can still top over a 10 strength which would make this a fairly simple test. From there to get the probability, without a few days of testing I don't know.
Very useful thread here, I wish it was around when I started!
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.07.15 09:55:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Llyando Autora
One comment on ECM chance. Back before they nerfed ECM by 0.5, it was possible for a rook to get an ECM strength of 13 or so, putting it over the sensor strength of many small ships. However despite this, whilst the target was still inside optimal it was possible to not get a jam;
Uhm, I have tested this extensively back then, and I never had a problem. Also, afaik, even now you can get a rook over the max sensor strength of some frigates.
I will test it, but I never ever have failed a jamming hit this way.
Quote:
indicating that there is a maximum J/S after which the chance is a fixed amount. COuldnt belive it the first time it occured in combat so tested with corp mates later and it confirmed the initial results.
I guess I have to test it some more, because my testing results show something totally different.
I used the same method a long time ago to test if jammers have reduced jamming potential at very close ranges. A scorp with racials and a really low sensor strength frig. Never one did it fail jamming.
Quote:
Not sure if this has changed with the nerf, but probably still worth testing. IIRC a rook can still top over a 10 strength which would make this a fairly simple test. From there to get the probability, without a few days of testing I don't know.
Well, probability is 100%, at least from my experience. Perhaps you had desync issues and your guy was in falloff?
Quote:
Very useful thread here, I wish it was around when I started!
Hehe, thank you. The reason I made it was exactly the fact, that there was none around when I started either.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Kua Immortal
RSP Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.07.15 23:13:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Kua Immortal on 15/07/2007 23:13:42
Excellent guide, full of hard facts!
Originally by: Ryysa
8. Calculating chances with falloff.
Many of the EW modules have a falloff range.
A module has a 100% chance to hit from 0km to it's optimal range. At optimal+falloff the chance to hit drops to 50% and at optimal +2xfalloff it is 0%. This means that at optimal+falloff there is a 50% chance that the module will fail and not do anything.
I found this a bit misleading though. I take chance to hit as meaning at optimal + falloff your dampener has a 50% chance of success, but it acts as normal when successful. That's not the case, you always are successful its just you dampen less effectively (presumably half as effectively as in optimal). The same would apply for target painters and tracking disruptors I assume. Where as with ECM I suppose you would be half as likely to jam.
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wictro
|
Posted - 2007.07.15 23:41:00 -
[101]
You forgot "Signal Disruption Amplifier" from ECM related rigs.
Tech I gives -20% capacitor need for ecm and ecm-burst modules.
Tech II gives -25% on those.
Great guide,
-wic
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Kua Immortal
RSP Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 03:54:00 -
[102]
Originally by: wictro
You forgot "Signal Disruption Amplifier" from ECM related rigs.
Tech I gives -20% capacitor need for ecm and ecm-burst modules.
Tech II gives -25% on those.
Great guide,
-wic
Easily overlooked. I can't present the facts, but I'd expect CCC rigs to be better :P.
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 06:23:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Ryysa on 16/07/2007 06:25:49
Originally by: Kua Immortal
Originally by: Ryysa
8. Calculating chances with falloff.
Many of the EW modules have a falloff range.
A module has a 100% chance to hit from 0km to it's optimal range. At optimal+falloff the chance to hit drops to 50% and at optimal +2xfalloff it is 0%. This means that at optimal+falloff there is a 50% chance that the module will fail and not do anything.
I found this a bit misleading though. I take chance to hit as meaning at optimal + falloff your dampener has a 50% chance of success, but it acts as normal when successful. That's not the case, you always are successful its just you dampen less effectively (presumably half as effectively as in optimal).
Well, then DO go into the game and test this. This is EXACTLY the case, EXACTLY as described.
And you are wrong.
Quote:
The same would apply for target painters and tracking disruptors I assume.
No it wouldn't. Using either of those in falloff results in a CHANCE of the module not working. If it hits, then it hits with full effectiveness, if it doesn't, then it doesn't hit at all.
I thought this was common knowledge by now.
Quote:
Where as with ECM I suppose you would be half as likely to jam.
Yes, but that's because ECM is chance based.
Please do your research before spreading false truths though.
Originally by: Kua Immortal
Easily overlooked. I can't present the facts, but I'd expect CCC rigs to be better :P.
CCC rigs are only good for carebearing or on capitals. EW has not really much to do with those things, apart from using sensor dampeners/nos against carriers.
Originally by: wictro
You forgot "Signal Disruption Amplifier" from ECM related rigs.
Tech I gives -20% capacitor need for ecm and ecm-burst modules.
Tech II gives -25% on those.
Great guide,
-wic
I will add this sometime soon. Thank you for pointing it out!
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Kua Immortal
RSP Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 16:17:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Kua Immortal on 16/07/2007 16:19:41
So that's what it's like to be hit by the Ryysa train? *Ouch* Well my mate must have been lying when we tested it :P, I'll take a look at it again before responding.
Explain your comment about CCCs, and do try to be nice . I have 2 on my celestis and an inverted signal projector - I pimp it like that :P - and I thought it was the best choice of rigs.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 17:33:00 -
[105]
Well, thats random chance for you. And the reason why certain people (me included) are rather touchy about the "reduced effect" bullcrap (excuse my french) is because it's a rather common eve myth/disinformation which should be squashed quickly on sight.
And, of cource, it's silghtly annoying when you get called wrong in something you tested yourself from someone who had his (wrong) information 2nd hand. Just imagine yourself saying "I have tested this and it works this way..." and someone replying "You are wrong because I have heared from my friend...".
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Arctic Spring
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 17:47:00 -
[106]
Does ECM work on rats? I can fly Caldari frigates, soon cruisers and I like the idea of electornic warfare, plus i think the backbird looks nice,
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Kua Immortal
RSP Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 18:02:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Kua Immortal on 16/07/2007 18:01:54
Originally by: Aramendel
Well, thats random chance for you. And the reason why certain people (me included) are rather touchy about the "reduced effect" bullcrap (excuse my french) is because it's a rather common eve myth/disinformation which should be squashed quickly on sight.
And, of cource, it's silghtly annoying when you get called wrong in something you tested yourself from someone who had his (wrong) information 2nd hand. Just imagine yourself saying "I have tested this and it works this way..." and someone replying "You are wrong because I have heared from my friend...".
I also can't stand it when people believe something they are told and talk it about it as though it is truth. That's why I wanted to find out for myself. My corpmates seemed so convinced that there was a reduced effect in falloff I guess I also believed it. The small original test we did seemed to confirm it though, but it was far from thorough. The second test I did, I didn't count but I think I must have activated the mod at least ten times and it appeared to be successful every single time. The chances are so slim that there must be something up. I think, probably, that using show info on the target ship was not the best way of testing whether the dampener had been successful or not. Anyway I'm absolutely sure you're both right on this and I will find a new way to test it and content myself .
And certainly Ryysa was justified in being somewhat ****ed off. I wasn't complaining about that, it was a genuinely interesting experience to be on the receiving end of the full wrath of her rhetoric .
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 19:02:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Arctic Spring
Does ECM work on rats? I can fly Caldari frigates, soon cruisers and I like the idea of electornic warfare, plus i think the backbird looks nice,
You like modern art, too?
And nope, NPCs are EW immune. Target painters work on them, but that module is EW only in name.
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 06:17:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Ryysa on 17/07/2007 06:18:15
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Arctic Spring
Does ECM work on rats? I can fly Caldari frigates, soon cruisers and I like the idea of electornic warfare, plus i think the backbird looks nice,
You like modern art, too?
And nope, NPCs are EW immune. Target painters work on them, but that module is EW only in name.
Actually ECM does work on npc's. Sensor dampening does not, but you can successfully target jam NPC's :)
Also, when they get unjammed, they automatically attack the person who jammed them.
Quote:
And certainly Ryysa was justified in being somewhat ****ed off. I wasn't complaining about that, it was a genuinely interesting experience to be on the receiving end of the full wrath of her rhetoric .
Hey, if you think I was ****ed off, you ain't seen nothing yet!
Quote:
EDIT: And for what its worth I'm now convinced that falloff on ewar mods works exactly as Ryysa described it . I'd been a bit of a nub and had been testing it at optimal+half falloff (where the chance of success is very high) and when I tested it again another 10 or 20 times I was unsuccessful once or twice. Not exactly scientific but enough for me :D. Sorry Ryysa .
<3, well I'm glad you found out how it works :P
And randomness is never too scientific. Perhaps you can ask how CCP generate their random numbers :)
Regarding rigs...
Putting CCC rigs on celestis is what I call a true waste of money.
And on an arazu, you're much better off with two dampening rigs instead.
Considering the fact that dampening rigs are bugged and do not incur a stacking penalty from eachother (last I checked anyway), you would be better (and cheaper off) fitting 3 sensor dampening strength rigs on your celestis, and sticking a cap relay in the lows or something.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 07:34:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Ryysa
you would be better (and cheaper off) fitting 3 sensor dampening strength rigs on your celestis, and sticking a cap relay in the lows or something
Ooh! I get to correct Ryssa!!
The sensor damp rigs have a calibration of 200, hence you can only fit two on most (all?) ships, including the Celestis.
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Kua Immortal
RSP Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 07:54:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Ryysa
you would be better (and cheaper off) fitting 3 sensor dampening strength rigs on your celestis, and sticking a cap relay in the lows or something
Ooh! I get to correct Ryssa!!
The sensor damp rigs have a calibration of 200, hence you can only fit two on most (all?) ships, including the Celestis.
Indeed.
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 11:48:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Ryysa on 17/07/2007 11:48:38
Well, I got to correct Aramendel today, so I guess it's only fair I get corrected too.
But indeed, I did not take into consideration the calibration points when posting the stuff about the rigs.
Still, CCC rigs are a waste in PvP (except capitals), if you need cap, use an injector. Since those CCC rigs will just make a hole in your wallet if you get nosed ;)
I wouldn't rig a celestis anyway, but hey, that's just me.
Either way, this discussion is going out of the scope of this guide. What is important, is that we got the falloff question solved and out of the way.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Glauxian Brothers
Ground Zeero
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 07:31:00 -
[113]
If I am using drones and different racial type ecm modules how do I count them all together for getting jamming chance?
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 09:03:00 -
[114]
For example, you have 2 drones with 1 ECM strength, 1 ECM with 10 strength and 1 ECM with 5 strength. Your target has 20 sensorstrength.
This gives you jamming chances of 2 * 5%, 1* 50% and 1 * 25%. Or, in other words, your target has 2 * a 95% chance, 1 * a 50% and 1* a 75% chance of NOT getting jammed.
The chance of your target NOT getting jammed by any attempts is then 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.5 * 0.75 -> 0.338 or 33.8%. So all ECM together gives you a 66.2% chance to jam your target.
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Mr Krosis
The humble Crew
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.22 02:15:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Vitrael
I would like to see more about the effectiveness of target painters while using turrets if you ever get into that!
I've always thought target painters never got the recognition they deserved. After running a few numbers in response to another thread, then reading this, I figured I'd do a few more and contribute the results. Short answer: they're better than most people think
The two painter numbers I'm using here are +37.5% which would be a fully trained painter with L5 spec skill on any old ship. Also included is +49.5% which would be flying a minmatar ship with painting bonus, and L4 spec skill / L5 ship skill. (I ment to do L5/L5 for the second, but didn't realize until after that the 49.5% number stuck in my head was only L4/L5. Oh well)
I used the 0.5 ^ ((Transv / (Range * Tracking)) * (Res / Rad))^2 formula for this, assuming no accuracy loss due to falloff.
With 0.01% (1 / 10,000) base chance to hit
+37.5% paint = 0.767%
+49.5% paint = 1.625%
with 0.1% (1 / 1,000) base chance to hit
+37.5% paint = 2.590%
+49.5% paint = 4.547%
with 1% base chance to hit
+37.5% paint = 8.927%
+49.5% paint = 12.953%
with 10% base chance to hit
+37.5% paint = 29.585%
+49.5% paint = 35.693%
with 25% base chance to hit
+37.5% paint = 48.035%
+49.5% paint = 53.780%
with 50% base chance to hit
+37.5% paint = 69.307%
+49.5% paint = 73.335%
with 75% base chance to hit
+37.5% paint = 85.885%
+49.5% paint = 87.922%
with 90% base chance to hit
+37.5% paint = 94.580%
+49.5% paint = 95.395%
with 99% base chance to hit
+37.5% paint = 99.470%
+49.5% paint = 99.551%
So it definitly helps, especially when you have a low chance to hit. If I understand the turret chance to hit function right, your lowest 1% chance to hit is your wrecking hit, so going from 1 in 10,000 change to about 1 / 60 is pretty significant (makes you over 100x more likely to hit!). Another benefit from the painter is if you fit it on a tackler, your support will finish their lock faster if you get the paint on right away. I definitly wouldn't drop a web for it, but am considering dropping my stiletto's second web for a painter now. I have always used a painter on my rapier
Also Ryysa you should update the section regarding targeting time. Teylorana has done some nice work reverse engineering that formula. The one she came up with is not a pretty formula, and breaks down at extremes, but it looks to be very accurate through the practical range. The original formula gets pretty inaccurate at larger sig radius. Scan Resolution vs Signature Radius
Cheers
-- Mr Krosis
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge. |
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.07.28 11:20:00 -
[116]
just when I go for a vacation...
Oh well, laptop ftw.
Thanks for the Target Painting numbers, but without realistic examples it still won't help very much.
Look at how I attempted to show the effect with tracking disruptors, on the DPS of ships... Perhaps it's possible to do something similar with target painting?
Oh and, I will update the targeting section.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
PussPuss
|
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:31:00 -
[117]
Just a quick question about Target Painters. I have just started using them, 2 on a maelstrom and notice a huge difference, and I am glad they are undervalued it makes it better for those of us who know better...
If I paint a target and get an increase in signature radius, am I the only ship that gets the benefit or does the rest of my gang as well?
I.e. do they paint the target for everyone?
Thanks in advance...
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Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Free Traders
|
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:44:00 -
[118]
Originally by: PussPuss
Just a quick question about Target Painters. I have just started using them, 2 on a maelstrom and notice a huge difference, and I am glad they are undervalued it makes it better for those of us who know better...
If I paint a target and get an increase in signature radius, am I the only ship that gets the benefit or does the rest of my gang as well?
I.e. do they paint the target for everyone?
Thanks in advance...
The target is painted for everyone AFAIK.
Originally by: JP Beauregard
The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
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PussPuss
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Posted - 2007.08.01 12:02:00 -
[119]
Thanks, if so, that could make a target painting specialised cruiser in a small gang a devastating weapon if you're minmatar, which my primary is... nice.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.08.04 14:40:00 -
[120]
Just webbing it is a lot more devastating for the small target in at least 3/4 of situations.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Hannobaal
Gallente
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 15:53:00 -
[121]
Target painters are very useful for big missiles hitting small targets or big guns hitting small targets at range. Beyond that, they're not all that.
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.08.12 15:33:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Target painters are very useful for big missiles hitting small targets or big guns hitting small targets at range. Beyond that, they're not all that.
The problem is, that giving up a midslot for a module which is useful in a such narrow amount of circumstances is not very smart.
However, discussions on whether TP's should be boosted/removed/changed/etc should most likely not belong to this thread.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
PussPuss
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Posted - 2007.08.21 11:40:00 -
[123]
Since posting a few weeks back I have used a target painting cruiser in gangs. Paints with an optimal range of 59km and a falloff up to 90km and with bonuses on the cruiser (minmatar) and three target painters I can make an inty look like a BC... :-) our gang seems to kill all small ships pretty fast now.
I think target painters need some beefing up, but overall I am enjoying them.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.08.21 16:55:00 -
[124]
My huginn or vagabond can kill a frigate size ship in about 5 to 10 seconds, without using any painters.
Painting an MWDing ship is also pretty pointless...
But anyway, again offtopic. I'd like to ask people to not post stuff like "I did that once then", it's purely anecdotal evidence, without any proof, and it adds absolutely no value to this thread.
If you would like to do a proper analysis on target painters with some numbers and graphs etc, then be my guest, but please stop the random vague discussions.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2007.08.21 20:21:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 21/08/2007 20:24:02
Originally by: Ryysa
If you would like to do a proper analysis on target painters with some numbers and graphs etc, then be my guest, (...)
I'll take that challenge! I've always wanetd to do that anyway.
Analyzing Target Painters
--------------------------------------
Tool used
-The official Tracking Guide. This test aims to gauge target painting effectiveness for turret ships in comparison to using tracking computers, a popular midslot module for improving offense.
Assumptions Made
-Signature radius vs. signature resolution works in a predictable manner.
-When target signature radius and gun signature resolution are identical, the resulting graph should be identical as well for any and all possible values for signature, independent of target transversal, gun tracking and other such variables. ---> Tested and confirmed.
-When target signature radius differs from gun signature resolution, then the resulting graph should be identical for any and all possible values of signature, too, if the (percentage) difference between the two values remains constant. ---> Tested and confirmed.
-This means that a gain in signature radius by the target can be reliably inverted into a loss of signature resolution on a gun, thus making it possible to compare a gun firing at a target painted enemy with an identical gun firing at a not painted enemy in the same graph. The exact inversion now remains to be figured out.
Inversing Radius Gain
A Target Painter II will add 30% to the target signature. With the relevant skill maxed, this turns into 37.5% - it doesn't get higher.
Trial and error is faster than math! A 77 signature turret shooting a 100 signature target results in the exact same graph as a 100 signature turret shooting a 130 signature target.
Checking with math: From 100 to 130 it's a 30% increase, and from 77 to 100 it's a 29.87% increase.
(100 - 77 = 23; | 77 / 100 = 0.77; | 23 / 0.77 = 29.87012...)
I got pretty close! I looked into refining that with math, and it doesn't get much closer without getting stupid numbers. I will go with 7695 resolution versus 10000 radius, which is about 29.95%.
I then used the same approach to invert the skillboosted target painter's 10000 to 13750 signature radius. 7250 turret signature looks pretty good, but math says 7270 is better: 2730 / 72.7 = 37.551581... Not exact, but close enough for me.
Comparing Gun Performance
I have entered four nearly identical guns shooting an arbitrary 10000m target into the tracking guide. The only differences are:
-Gun 1 is to be the baseline.
-Gun 2 has a Tracking Computer II's 30% extra tracking and 15% extra optimal applied to it.
-Gun 3 has the inverted signature resolution for hitting a target painted ship without painting skills.
-Gun 4 has the inverted signature resolution for hitting a target painted ship with painting skills.
---> I have screenshotted the results, you can view them here. <---
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Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.08.21 20:22:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 21/08/2007 20:23:03
Conclusions and Implications
As you can see - and see especially well thanks to the additional range of the tracking computer'd gun - the 30% signature radius bonus conferred by an unskilled Target Painter II is for all intends and purposes identical to a 30% tracking bonus on turrets!
This further means that a skilled up Target Painter II confers a noticeably bigger bonus to turret tracking than a Tracking Computer II does. It's exactly like bringing Gallente Battleship from 4 to 5 for the purpose of piloting a Megathron.
Furthermore, this bonus also applies to any and all ships shooting the target, whereas the Tracking Computer only benefits you! In addition, the Target Painter also benefits your and your friends' missile damage. As a downside, of course, you lose the optimal range bonus of the Tracking Computer. Also, Target Painters have a very limited optimal range (only up to 30km unskilled, 45km max), and using them in falloff means they may or may not activate this cycle. It also uses slightly more cap.
However... if you run a closerange setup, and are not worried about gaining optimal range bonuses (such as, say, a blaster ship), then a skill-supported Target Painter II will give you personally a greater benefit than a Tracking Computer II! This counts double if you already have another tracking mod fitted, and would incur stacking penalty for fitting a second or third. And you confer that same bonus to all your friends at all their ranges and with all their weapons.
I believe Target Painters are quite underrated
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PussPuss
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Posted - 2007.08.22 14:46:00 -
[127]
Edited by: PussPuss on 22/08/2007 14:48:15
Edited by: PussPuss on 22/08/2007 14:46:16
Excellent work Ishina. Thank you for that. Other points to bear in mind: target painters don't suffer from a stacking penalty (unlike tracking computers) and using relevant rigs and good skills your target painters can get an optimal range of over 60km and falloff approaching 100km.
As such, stacking 3 target painters (btw, the best named one does the same job as a T2 with a lot less CPU) gets the signature radius of a 100m ship to just under 260m with the relevant level 5 skill, which does a lot of good stuff in a fight.
And, as stated, it confers a benefit to all your gang. Kind of like all of them having an extra row of tracking computers and gyrostabilisers.
Thanks for running the comparison, it has confirmed what my experience over the last few weeks has led me to believe.
A small cruiser or frig in a gang, cheap and disposable, fitted with an array of extron generation target painters and perhaps a webber costs peanuts to set up but has a huge impact.
Ryysa, I realy appreciate your forum comments, but it is anecdotal evidence that leads to research and generates results and new ideas.
Thanks.
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Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.08.23 08:08:00 -
[128]
Are you sure that target painters are not stacking nerfed when applied to the same target? I was sure that they are...
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.08.25 16:04:00 -
[129]
Originally by: PussPuss
... Other points to bear in mind: target painters don't suffer from a stacking penalty (unlike tracking computers)
They do. Signature radius is stacking penalized, completely wrong.
Quote:
Kind of like all of them having an extra row of tracking computers and gyrostabilisers.
Come on, stop it already, we can see you are a big fan of TP, but I do wonder how much you actually PvP.
In a smaller gang there's usually almost no reason to use TP, neither tracking comps.
TP's can be used in fleet battles, but the fact that it's mostly stationary battleships shooting at eachother is kinda "meh".
I have never had any issues with tracking in fleet battles, the reason you use tracking computers in fleet battles is to gain extra range, which TP's don't give at all.
Quote:
Ryysa, I realy appreciate your forum comments, but it is anecdotal evidence that leads to research and generates results and new ideas.
Hardly. I suggest you read up on the scientific method.
Anecdotal evidence is not good for anything, because it's not evidence.
You have an observation, based on which you have a hypothesis which you then try to prove. Anecdotal evidence is not a hypothesis neither an observation, it's trying to make an observation appear as evidence, which it is not.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.08.25 16:07:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Ryysa on 25/08/2007 16:07:05
To Ishina,
Thank you for making a considerate attempt.
However, I disagree with some of your analysis, it is very heavily biased.
Also, the tracking guide is /known/ to be inaccurate, especially with tracking and falloff, since AFAIK it does not take in account the hit quality formula.
If you would like to provide imagery, I suggest you use Naughty Boy's spreadsheet.
If I get any time, I will make my own graphs using it, heavily referencing and using your research, albeit I'll try to do it in a more neutral manner :)
Thank you for putting the effort in, and as of now, your post contains a lot of valuable information that I do not have in my guide.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
|
Posted - 2007.08.25 16:22:00 -
[131]
I think when they said that TP does not stack they implied that if you already have some TC or TE fitted putting on another (third or fourth) TC or TP the TP does not stack with the tracking modules.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2007.08.25 17:54:00 -
[132]
Biased? Hmm.
To be quite honest, I have never fitted a target painter in my entire EVE live. I can't say I am a total fan of them.
I was personally surprised that they seem to hold up as well against tracking computers as they are, which may have influenced my writing style.
I am also not commonly theorycrafting around, so whether or not the official tracking guide is properly accurate I do not know. I'd like to add though that hit quality degradation is largely irrelevant in this example, since (as my screenshot shows) I was comparing pure hit chance and said nothing about DPS at all.
Feel free to use whatever parts of my posts and methods you wish, but please be not so fast with accusing people of bias. It leaves quite a bad aftertaste.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.08.26 16:10:00 -
[133]
Let's just say, in practice, very few people fit TC's to improve their tracking.
Completely ignoring this fact, seemed like bias.
I apologize if I offended you in any way.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
|
Posted - 2007.08.26 21:46:00 -
[134]
I know the benefits of a tp with mid to long range turrets, what I would like to know is the benefits to close range blasters/ac's, preferrably the largest of each size/class. especially for a speed fit.
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Zlipit
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Posted - 2007.08.31 18:04:00 -
[135]
Where and when is EW usefull in PvE?
I dont really have the time, balls or ISK to PvP, so i mainly focus on PvE (and forum, evemon and quickfit :p). While fitting shield extenders/armor and resistances for PvE, is there anywhere these EW moduels would be more usefull?
Im currently doing lvl2 missions in a tech1 frig (yes, its scary). Would it be more profitable/"fun" using .. an ECM than another hardener? You're usually heavily outnumbered and need to soak up alot of damage to reduce the number of warpouts for restoring cap/shield/armor.
I've been using a NOS on my Punisher with great success in PvE (to sustain armorrep). Lvl2 missions is pretty hard to do in a Punisher though, so im about to move up to a cruiser. Would a painter/web help those midsized autocannons/artillery?
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
|
Posted - 2007.08.31 20:16:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Zlipit
Edited by: Zlipit on 31/08/2007 18:09:05
Where and when is EW usefull in PvE?
I actually used to use caldari racial ECM against guristas rats on my domi, pre "balance". Was ok, about every 4th or so cycle worked, but it was an ok save on capasitor.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
KTOZ
Caldari
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
|
Posted - 2007.09.10 13:00:00 -
[137]
Great guide Rysa,
did any one found out yet what is exactly projected electronic counter mesure skill for? is it only for cap pilots or affect also normal ecm boats in a good way?
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KTOZ
Caldari
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
|
Posted - 2007.09.10 13:04:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Zlipit
Edited by: Zlipit on 31/08/2007 18:09:05
Where and when is EW usefull in PvE?
I dont really have the time, balls or ISK to PvP, so i mainly focus on PvE (and forum, evemon and quickfit :p). While fitting shield extenders/armor and resistances for PvE, is there anywhere these EW moduels would be more usefull?
Im currently doing lvl2 missions in a tech1 frig (yes, its scary). Would it be more profitable/"fun" using .. an ECM than another hardener? You're usually heavily outnumbered and need to soak up alot of damage to reduce the number of warpouts for restoring cap/shield/armor.
I've been using a NOS on my Punisher with great success in PvE (to sustain armorrep). Lvl2 missions is pretty hard to do in a Punisher though, so im about to move up to a cruiser. Would a painter/web help those midsized autocannons/artillery?
Edit: Oh, and thanks for this awesome guide!
ECM on PvE is a big waste, if you are not in a ecm ship, if you dont have signal disp 4 or 5, you wont have much chance to jamm rats. enhance ur tank insteed.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.10 13:14:00 -
[139]
Originally by: KTOZ
Great guide Rysa,
did any one found out yet what is exactly projected electronic counter mesure skill for? is it only for cap pilots or affect also normal ecm boats in a good way?
Thats the skill for the remote ECM burst module for motherships.
Essentially the same effect as the normal ECM burst (only breaks locks, does *not* jam for 20 sec) but projected on a target with an AOE effect around it.
Not too terribly useful.
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Aloroma Talassa
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Posted - 2007.09.10 13:33:00 -
[140]
Nice guide, thanks for sharing :)
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Salpad
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Posted - 2007.09.13 08:14:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 10/06/2007 04:26:30
1. Warp Scrambling
Working Mechanism:
Regarding modules, the best way to describe the workings would be to view every module as having a certain amount of "scramble points" (scramble strength). Let's say each ship starts out with 0 warp points and each scramble point deducts from that number. If the amount of warp points a ship has is negative, it can't enter warp. So if you apply a warp disruptor with strength 1 to a ship with a base amount of 0 warp points, it ends up with -1 warp points, thus it can't warp.
I think it would be simplier if you modified the above, to say that ships have, by default a warp strength of 1 (with the exception being, AFAIK, Blockade Runners), and that warp scramblers and -disrupters reduce this, and if warp strength is reduced to zero, then the ship cannot enter warp.
For maximum clarity, it might be worth stating explicitly that there is no advantage to having a warp strength higher than the minimum needed to enter warp, except as a counter to warp scramling/disruption. Having a higher warp strength will not make you warp faster.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.21 21:11:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 10/06/2007 04:26:30
1. Warp Scrambling
Working Mechanism:
Regarding modules, the best way to describe the workings would be to view every module as having a certain amount of "scramble points" (scramble strength). Let's say each ship starts out with 0 warp points and each scramble point deducts from that number. If the amount of warp points a ship has is negative, it can't enter warp. So if you apply a warp disruptor with strength 1 to a ship with a base amount of 0 warp points, it ends up with -1 warp points, thus it can't warp.
I think it would be simplier if you modified the above, to say that ships have, by default a warp strength of 1 (with the exception being, AFAIK, Blockade Runners), and that warp scramblers and -disrupters reduce this, and if warp strength is reduced to zero, then the ship cannot enter warp.
For maximum clarity, it might be worth stating explicitly that there is no advantage to having a warp strength higher than the minimum needed to enter warp, except as a counter to warp scramling/disruption. Having a higher warp strength will not make you warp faster.
You see, I can not do anything about people assuming things.
No matter how I write it.
It's nowhere stated that it will make you warp faster, It's also nowhere stated that your ship doesn't blow up in random intervals by itself (and it doesn't).
I pretty much thought it was plainly obvious, the only thing that affects the time from 0 speed to warp is your agility.
Also, I disagree with your interpretation. It's just a matter of taste, my current statement in the guide is perfectly correct, and there is no need to fix what's not broken.
There are a lot of other sections of the guide that need love, like the ECM Burst on the motherships and the new NOS mechanism. Since I don't really play EvE anymore, I will try to focus on the important parts first.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
|
Posted - 2007.09.28 22:19:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Ishina Fel
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 21/08/2007 20:28:05
Conclusions and Implications
As you can see - and see especially well thanks to the additional range of the tracking computer'd gun - the 30% signature radius bonus conferred by an unskilled Target Painter II is for all intends and purposes identical to a 30% tracking bonus on turrets!
Just from knowing the hit chance formula, you can see quite clearly that they have the same effect:
Hit chance neglecting falloff = 2^-{[transversal/(range*tracking)*sig res/sig radius]^2}
(The hit quality formula is unaffected, since the chance to hit is exactly the same in both cases)
Multiplying sig radius or tracking by the same amount will do exactly the same thing. The correct choice of module depends solely on the situation, as you've explained in detail.
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Baybe
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 03:24:00 -
[144]
Bumpage for an awesome guide!
Do you (or anyone else) have more information on sling bubbles (or slingbubbles, not sure)? I have seen bubbles that warp me past the gate and into the bubble and when I check my direction, etc it seems the bubble is beyond where the gate is based on where I started (not between my start point and the location I warped from). Is this just a error in how the view works or is there something more to this? Thanks for any help! |
Shadow Nebulae
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Posted - 2007.10.29 12:21:00 -
[145]
great guide..I'm wondering, for the prospective pilot that wants to specialize in EW, are caldari ships still the best ships for it? with the new patch, and EAS's coming, I'm trying to read the tea leaves a bit as far as game direction..
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Kaiji Vincente
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Posted - 2007.10.29 16:47:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Shadow Nebulae
great guide..I'm wondering, for the prospective pilot that wants to specialize in EW, are caldari ships still the best ships for it? with the new patch, and EAS's coming, I'm trying to read the tea leaves a bit as far as game direction..
I don't see the new patch making the Caldari any less effective in terms of EW ships. If anything, having a frigate-class hull that gets T2 resists and BS level sensor strength will make them more effective. The Kitsune's bonuses practically scream "fit me with a rack of multispecs and screw the cap recharger".
Gallente is taking a small hit with the sensor damps changes. But realisticly, I don't see it being anything that will cause a huge problem. Setups and scenarios where you really need both effects at the same time are definitely on the rare side. Most of the whining about the damper change is probbably from the "I have the skillpoints and isk to use it, because it's 'I win' and don't care how it works" crowd.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.29 18:10:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Baybe
Bumpage for an awesome guide!
Do you (or anyone else) have more information on sling bubbles (or slingbubbles, not sure)? I have seen bubbles that warp me past the gate and into the bubble and when I check my direction, etc it seems the bubble is beyond where the gate is based on where I started (not between my start point and the location I warped from). Is this just a error in how the view works or is there something more to this? Thanks for any help!
Uhm, please read the part which describes how bubbles work.
It doesn't matter if it's past or before the gate, as long as it's in the grid and on your warp axis.
This is throughoutly described in the guide.
Thanks for the praise :)
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Baybe
|
Posted - 2007.10.31 13:51:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Ryysa
It doesn't matter if it's past or before the gate, as long as it's in the grid and on your warp axis.
This is throughoutly described in the guide.
Thanks for the praise :)
My apologies but how it read to me was a line from A to B, starting at A and ending at B, and not a line extending between A and B but also beyond... It makes more sense now. Any idea of the range past point B one can set a bubble and still have it be effective? |
Earl de'Hamsterdam
|
Posted - 2007.11.09 12:36:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Earl de''Hamsterdam on 09/11/2007 12:43:54
Edited by: Earl de''Hamsterdam on 09/11/2007 12:40:41
Edited by: Earl de''Hamsterdam on 09/11/2007 12:38:39
Edited by: Earl de''Hamsterdam on 09/11/2007 12:37:08
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 13/07/2007 06:15:39
8. Calculating chances with falloff.
Many of the EW modules have a falloff range.
A module has a 100% chance to hit from 0km to it's optimal range. At optimal+falloff the chance to hit drops to 50% and at optimal +2xfalloff it is 0%. This means that at optimal+falloff there is a 50% chance that the module will fail and not do anything.
To determine the chance of success in falloff range, we use the following formula:
C = 0.5^((R-O)/F)^2)
Where R is the range from you to the target, O the optimal range of the module, F the falloff range of the module and C the chance of success.
As a result, you will get a multiplier. This is a chance multiplier. In case of jammers, just multiply the calculated chance by it. In case of other modules, this will simply show you the chances of the module succeeding at a given range.
unless i'm reading this wrong, C = 0.5^((R-O)/F)^2) doesn't make sense. first, why would you square something and then take the square root of it?
second, the three variables. if R = 20km, O = 10km, F = 10km, then C = 1 when C should equal something close to 0.5.
for the sake of simplicity, optimal = zero. the equation is probably something more like {[sqrt(falloff - range)] ^ -1} +0.5. since sqrt() of a negative number is undefined, it'd be possible to set this value to zero in the code, and accounts for 0 multiplier when range > falloff. with sqrt(), you could possibly end up with a multiplier greater than 1, but that could be reset to 1 through the code or whatever.
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Kirmok
|
Posted - 2007.11.16 08:44:00 -
[150]
Best EW guide I've seen. Thank you. I'm going to try to apply some of this information to protect myself. One question: is jamming/painting/dampening/turret disrupting considered an act of aggression in high sec?
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ry ry
StateCorp
The State
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Posted - 2007.11.16 12:14:00 -
[151]
yes, it is.
![]() |
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.11.18 14:49:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Ryysa on 18/11/2007 14:49:54
Originally by: Earl de'Hamsterdam
unless i'm reading this wrong, C = 0.5^((R-O)/F)^2) doesn't make sense. first, why would you square something and then take the square root of it?
You are reading it wrong.
You empower 0.5 with the result of ((R-O)/F)^2), you don't empower the result of ((R-O)/F)^2) with 0.5 (which would mean square root).
There is quite a distinct difference. Unfortunately, I don't see any way short of making transparent png/gif images with equations to write it down any better.
Basically 4^5 != 5^4. I hope that makes sense.
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.11.18 22:01:00 -
[153]
Keep meaning to post this for your damper section mate:
Lock Time in seconds = (40000 / ScanRes) / (asinh(SigRadius) ^ 2)
Long starbase mod lock times get pretty off with the approximations, this may well be exact, seems to check out anyway.
_
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.11.19 00:26:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Ryysa on 19/11/2007 00:34:56
Originally by: Blazde
Keep meaning to post this for your damper section mate:
Lock Time in seconds = (40000 / ScanRes) / (asinh(SigRadius) ^ 2)
Long starbase mod lock times get pretty off with the approximations, this may well be exact, seems to check out anyway.
Uhm, seems like a mod ninja-edited my dampener page.
Considering I last edited it in July this year.
I will check it out and correct it. The current state of it is... well, slightly harder to understand.
Blazde, do you work for CCP these days by any chance?
But uhm, could you please point me to the number crunching?
On another note, dear mod, if you like, you can edit my sections regarding NOS, I'd more than appreciate the outdated information fixed
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.11.19 17:42:00 -
[155]
Oh also, unless I got the NOS part wrong, the guide is once again pretty much up to date.
The only missing thing I know of is the description of the Mothership ECM Burst module.
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Kombikiller
The Edge Foundation
Zenith Affinity
|
Posted - 2007.11.26 01:58:00 -
[156]
Hey mate, Nice Guide...
just wondering if you could help me with a formulae for calculating the chance of a ecm jam using say two different jamming strength jammers.
I see you made reference to some dudes theory/formulae, but couldn't find if you elaberated on this later.
to help with what im trying to say..(please excuse my simplistic ignorance) but heres an example(using whole numbers for ease).. I want to jam an Estarte (18point) with 1 x racial (11point) and 1 x multi (7point)
As a simple formulae.... my jamming strength is 18 point (racial + multi) which = a 100% chance of jamming the Estarte.
Now obviously this is probably way too simple,.. so i was hoping you could help me with the correct formulae to measure this?
Thanks in advance for your help
kombi o/
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Vitrael
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2007.11.26 03:38:00 -
[157]
I'm still interested in an explanation of the effects of a target painter when using turrets, beyond "turret tracking, etc..."
Got any news Ryysa?
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.12.02 16:29:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Vitrael
I'm still interested in an explanation of the effects of a target painter when using turrets, beyond "turret tracking, etc..."
Got any news Ryysa?
Basically using a painter has exactly the same effect as increasing your tracking by the % amount the signature is increased. I'll write that in later.
Originally by: Kombikiller
so i was hoping you could help me with the correct formulae to measure this?
Thanks in advance for your help
kombi o/
Sorry, not too much time atm, what you want is in the field of combinatorics.
Google "bernoulli trials" that might help.
If I get time, I'll write it down, but not now.
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
|
Posted - 2007.12.02 16:31:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Ryysa
Basically using a painter has exactly the same effect as increasing your tracking by the % amount the signature is increased. I'll write that in later.
Plus, you also get a coolness bonus from using a module called 'PWNAGE' on your ship, and there's always the cheap option of using 'PWN', too.
Rifters!
|
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.12.02 19:04:00 -
[160]
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Queen Mu
|
Posted - 2007.12.10 05:50:00 -
[161]
Is this available as a PDF?
|
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.12.12 20:44:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Queen Mu
Is this available as a PDF?
Err... no...
If you feel like making a good printable document then feel free to :)
I like the idea that it's on the forum, since you can edit it as EvE evolves, and it evolves fairly quick.
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Katrina Coreli
The Scope
|
Posted - 2007.12.12 21:09:00 -
[163]
Lurvely guide
-----------------
THE CAKE IS A LIE! |
breaky1
HOMELESS.
Band of Bums
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 15:17:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Kombikiller
so i was hoping you could help me with the correct formulae to measure this?
Thanks in advance for your help
kombi o/
Sorry, not too much time atm, what you want is in the field of combinatorics.
Google "bernoulli trials" that might help.
If I get time, I'll write it down, but not now.
Great guide Ryysa! Maybe I can help with this question:
-Basically what Ryysa shows is that a successful jam means that at least 1 jammer did not fail, or in other words, not all jammers fail.
His formula expresses all jammers failing, and then subtracts this possibility from 100% to represent the chance that NOT all jammers fail.
So the chance to successfully jam equals "one minus the chance that jammer #1 fails AND jammer #2 fails AND jammer #3 fails , etc".
In Ryysa's reformulation of the Bernoulli probability density function, he expresses the chance of failing a jam, (1-J/S), raised to the power of the total number of jammers [the ^n term], then he subtracts this value from 1. [Side note: his math is absolutely correct for everyone who is doubting it, btw]
Anyway, if you want to compute the probability of successfully jamming with jammers of different strengths, instead of using the power term, [^n], you must multiply each jammer's fail chance, (1-J1/S)*(1-J2/S)*(1-J3/S)*...*(1-Jn/S), and subtract this value from 1:
C = 100% * (1 - ((1-J1/S)*(1-J2/S)*(1-J3/s)*...*(1-Jn/s)))
In this equation, J1, J2, J3, Jn are the jammer strengths of each of your jammers and S is the sensor strength of the target. It is almost the same thing as Ryysa's formula but because the jammers have different strengths, you can't just use one J term and take the product of all the jammers' fail chances, you must express each jammer's fail chance individually.
And last, as Ryysa also implies above, if J > S for any jammer, the jam is guaranteed to be successfully, you don't have to use some negative miss chance subtracted from 1 or anything.
|
Random Incarnate
Australia and New Zealand Eve Corp
Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 14:02:00 -
[165]
The numbers on the Caldari ECM ships need to be updated to 15% jam strength per level on the Griffin, Scorpion and Blackbird, and 20% per level on the falcon. Great guide btw, I read it a long time ago and it's basically how I started my EWAR Pilot career...4 months on and I still think back to this guide.
|
Earl de'Hamsterdam
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 14:41:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Ryysa
You are reading it wrong.
my bad, i'm dyslexic
|
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 18:54:00 -
[167]
Mind if I post that in printable format?
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 19:24:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Random Incarnate
The numbers on the Caldari ECM ships need to be updated to 15% jam strength per level on the Griffin, Scorpion and Blackbird, and 20% per level on the falcon. Great guide btw, I read it a long time ago and it's basically how I started my EWAR Pilot career...4 months on and I still think back to this guide.
I will fix that... soon(tm).
Originally by: Laboratus
Mind if I post that in printable format?
No, I don't at all, as long as
1) You manage to keep updating it
2) Give credit where it is due
3) Don't use white-on-pink colour solutions
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 18:31:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Ryysa on 27/12/2007 18:31:42
Current things on todo list:
1) Update all ship bonuses, which have changed.
2) Add information about mothership ECM module.
3) Add information about HIC's.
4) Update module stats/examples, which have changed.
5) Add information about scripts.
If there is anything else - feel free to let me know, as I'll probably overhaul the guide a bit in January.
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Feinrig
|
Posted - 2007.12.28 08:33:00 -
[170]
This is one of the best guides I have read :). Please add the Widow to the Caldari ECM part when changing the description of the other ships.
Also there is something that I think will be interesting to read - the formula describing the lock time<->sensor booster connection. I know that they are stack nerfed but I can't derive the exact values in seconds for having 1,2,3,... modules on a Raven (for example) with 30% or 60% boosting.
|
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.12.28 10:34:00 -
[171]
Posting from airport hotspot FTW.
The stacking is the same for everything.
Positive first, sorted descending by strength, negative after, sorted descending by strength also.
Positive and negative effects stack independently.
So for your remote sensor boosting(?), assuming each booster gives 50% extra, you would just have to calculate scan resolution like this:
scan res*skill multiplier*(1+0.5)*(1+0.5*0.87)*(1+0.5*0.57) in case of 3 boosters with 50% effect each.
Then stick the resolution into the locktime formula, that's all ;)
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Feinrig
|
Posted - 2007.12.28 23:37:00 -
[172]
10x for the answer :). Ok then how do you get the lock time for your ship - the connection between your scan resolution and the size of the ship you are targeting?
For instance, if I'm flying Raven and I'm targeting a shuttle - what is the time I need?
|
BobBarker
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 15:21:00 -
[173]
bump so I can find it easier.
Thx for your cooperation.
|
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 17:49:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Feinrig
10x for the answer :). Ok then how do you get the lock time for your ship - the connection between your scan resolution and the size of the ship you are targeting?
For instance, if I'm flying Raven and I'm targeting a shuttle - what is the time I need?
Uhm, the formula is clearly stated in the guide.
I don't see what the problem is to stick in the numbers from show info box on Raven and Shuttle ?
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
TradeUnion first
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 22:16:00 -
[175]
The problem was that I don't read carefully :). Found it, thanks!
|
Jandice Ymladris
Caldari
United Peoples' Defense Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.12.30 09:44:00 -
[176]
Thanks alot for this guide! Bookmarked it as it is an easy reference. I`ve been looking up on various aspects of e-war and this guide is great!
Intend to become an e-war pilot so this helps greatly.
|
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.12.31 11:56:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Jandice Ymladris
Thanks alot for this guide! Bookmarked it as it is an easy reference. I`ve been looking up on various aspects of e-war and this guide is great!
Intend to become an e-war pilot so this helps greatly.
Hehe, glad it helps.
The only thing is, some of the stats are a bit outdated, so are some examples.
Sensor dampeners in particular.
I'll fix it when I get back from Russia or something :P
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
MwillyC
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.01.02 03:00:00 -
[178]
Firstly fantastic guide thanks!
Quick Q on Sensor dampeners and the stacking penalty. I understand how it works if I have multiple dampeners fitted to my ship, but does it apply if 3 individual ships each fitted with one dampener, target a single ship? or do they all reduce the target ships locking range by the full strength of their respective modules.
Thanks again for a great guide.
|
General Coochie
The Bastards
|
Posted - 2008.01.02 03:14:00 -
[179]
stacking penalty counts for any modules active on the target.
3 different ships or one ship doesn't matter only number of modules.
What I wonder is if I use say sensor damp drones, what gets counted first? I mean if 2 drones damps to some few %. Then I add a 3rd dampener does it get 0.57 stacking penalty? Cause I don't want drones to steal the most effective spot.
One time I actually experience someone not beeing damped as much as I anticipated at that time there was another guy in gang with totally unbonused damps dampening aswell. But I might have had to much alcohol on that occasion.
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
pandymen
Caldari
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
|
Posted - 2008.01.02 06:11:00 -
[180]
Originally by: General Coochie
stacking penalty counts for any modules active on the target.
3 different ships or one ship doesn't matter only number of modules.
What I wonder is if I use say sensor damp drones, what gets counted first? I mean if 2 drones damps to some few %. Then I add a 3rd dampener does it get 0.57 stacking penalty? Cause I don't want drones to steal the most effective spot.
No worries there. The stacking nerf is applied so you get the highest dampage/webbage/whatever-age possible. Same applies for armor hardeners/eanm/etc.
Your sensor damp, although activated last, would take up the first "slot" and be unaffected by stacking. The drones would be stacking nerfed and take up the next two slots. Say a buddy of yours brings another damp to the party and he has signal suppression trained (bonus to dampage)....his damp would take over the first slot since it is the strongest, then your damp, then your drones.
|
Random Incarnate
Australia and New Zealand Eve Corp
Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2008.01.02 08:16:00 -
[181]
Apparently EW drones aren't stacking nerfed...
|
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.01.04 11:46:00 -
[182]
Edited by: Ryysa on 04/01/2008 11:46:57
Originally by: MwillyC
Firstly fantastic guide thanks!
Quick Q on Sensor dampeners and the stacking penalty. I understand how it works if I have multiple dampeners fitted to my ship, but does it apply if 3 individual ships each fitted with one dampener, target a single ship? or do they all reduce the target ships locking range by the full strength of their respective modules.
Thanks again for a great guide.
Basically all effects for stacking penalties get counted on every target separately.
Meaning, if you damp 3 different ships with 3 different dampeners of yours, then assuming, that no one else is dampening those 3 ships, you will get full efficiency on each of your dampeners.
Quote:
What I wonder is if I use say sensor damp drones, what gets counted first? I mean if 2 drones damps to some few %. Then I add a 3rd dampener does it get 0.57 stacking penalty? Cause I don't want drones to steal the most effective spot.
As it is stated in the guide, all of the multipliers active get sorted in descending order. Meaning, strongest first, weakest last.
Quote:
One time I actually experience someone not beeing damped as much as I anticipated at that time there was another guy in gang with totally unbonused damps dampening aswell. But I might have had to much alcohol on that occasion.
I'd blame the booze.
Originally by: Random Incarnate
Apparently EW drones aren't stacking nerfed...
Last I tried they were. I see no reason why they would not be, as CCP would have to specifically make the drones multipliers not get stack nerfed, which would result in more coding efforts.
I don't see how that makes sense.
Pretty easy to test though.
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
sharp as
VITOC
|
Posted - 2008.01.08 02:33:00 -
[183]
Do damps and ecm stack with the Ewar drone of the same type?
sharpy
|
Requiescat
True Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.01.08 02:48:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Ryysa
6. Target Painting
Counters:
None
Relatively inexpensive Halo implants reduce your sig radius
Victory - Honor = Loss |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.01.08 03:09:00 -
[185]
Originally by: sharp as
Do damps and ecm stack with the Ewar drone of the same type?
sharpy
ECM doesn't stack, damps do of course.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Quadrapodazone
|
Posted - 2008.01.16 19:41:00 -
[186]
Awesome guide...thank you so much!
|
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.01.19 19:08:00 -
[187]
Edited by: Ryysa on 19/01/2008 19:09:42
Originally by: Requiescat
Originally by: Ryysa
6. Target Painting
Counters:
None
Relatively inexpensive Halo implants reduce your sig radius
They don't directly counter painters though, they just increase your sig radius.
And the reduction from halo implants is iirc less/about the same as one painter applied with skills.
It's the same as saying, long range targeting skill is counter to sensor dampeners. It's not.
Also, lol @ "Relatively inexpensive". I'd say that relatively to the cost of 1 target painter, halo implants are extremely expensive :)
Originally by: Quadrapodazone
Awesome guide...thank you so much!
<3
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 23:40:00 -
[188]
Updated:
Scripts.
Heavy Interdictors.
Interceptor bonuses.
Reports of any mistake appreciated as always.
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Don Jehova
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 00:31:00 -
[189]
First of all, excellent guide.
There is a tiny flaw i the ecm formula:
"C = (1-(1-J/S)^n)*100%"
should be:
C = (1-((1-J)/S)^n)*100%
Could'nt get it too work so got out my math book and want over the binomial probabilities, only to find out the only wrong thing was a missing parenthesis (After studying for about an hour :-/). Will probably do me good when the exams come though.
______________________________________________________________
|
Random Incarnate
Australia and New Zealand Eve Corp
Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 11:02:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 12/02/2008 23:50:45
P.S.
I found that about this just a bit ago. So, if you think I am worthy, vote ;)
I voted.
|
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.02.19 01:34:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Don Jehova
First of all, excellent guide.
There is a tiny flaw i the ecm formula:
"C = (1-(1-J/S)^n)*100%"
should be:
C = (1-((1-J)/S)^n)*100%
Could'nt get it too work so got out my math book and want over the binomial probabilities, only to find out the only wrong thing was a missing parenthesis (After studying for about an hour :-/). Will probably do me good when the exams come though.
Haha... oops... fixed, thanks for pointing that out.
Originally by: Random Incarnate
I voted.
Thanks :P
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Ksidyn
|
Posted - 2008.02.20 04:24:00 -
[192]
Great guide! Extremely useful.
Two things though
1) The bonus the ECM target jammer strength for the T1 ships is 15% per level not 10%
2) You are missing the Kitsune for ships that use ECM.
20% bonus to jamming strength and 10% bonus to ECM cap usage per caladari frigate
10% bonus to ECM optimal range and 5% increase to capacitor capacity per electronic attack skill
Thanks again!
|
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.02.20 10:29:00 -
[193]
The bonuses got changed, and have not been updated indeed.
I also miss all the other EW frigates from my guide.
Need to fix that...
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Natasha Quoirassonne
|
Posted - 2008.04.17 06:11:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Ryysa
Deductions - If the bubble is not in the same grid as object B, then nothing will happen
Thanks for clearing this up for me - I had been wondering why bubbles were never set up somewhere in between gates, as this would make escape by going through the gate impossible. |
Kayoss
HeartVenom Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.04.17 07:01:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Kayoss on 17/04/2008 07:02:08
Very nice Guide. Thanks for putting this together.
This should get a sticky!! |
Ryysa
The Illuminati.
Cruel Intentions
|
Posted - 2008.05.05 18:05:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Natasha Quoirassonne
Let me see if I got this straight: If line A-B does NOT intersect the bubble's sphere, the traveling ship will not end up in the bubble, even if the bubble is on grid with B - correct?
Correct.
Quote:
And one last question: Is this sorting order done automatically by Eve, or do I have to do it?
Automatic.
Originally by: Ryysa
If I interpret this right, point (b) could be deleted, as it would not be specific to the focused warp disruption script. This would make a few characters of room for future edits.
Focused warp disruption is activated on one target, it is not a bubble.
It is just a point with infinite strength.
Quote:
There is one slight copy&paste error I caught - you write: Originally by: Ryysa
There are two scripts which can be used with dampeners.
in section "5. Tracking Disrupting".
Fixed.
Quote:
It is a pity that you left Eve; I hope you will be back one day.
Doubt it, real life has caught up on me big time.
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
mirage658584
|
Posted - 2008.05.06 07:18:00 -
[197]
I don't know if it has been mentioned but your ECM section has a few errors in the ship listing.
Falcon and Rook get 20% jammer strength/recon level
Scorpion gets 15% per bs level
Blackbird also gets 15% per cruiser level
Griffin gets 15% per frig level
Kitsune is missing:
Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to ECM target jammer strength and 10% reduction in ECM target jammers' capacitor need per level
Electronic Attack Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to ECM target jammer optimal range and 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level
And the Widow:
Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to cruise and siege missile launcher rate of fire and 10% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo velocity per level
Black Ops Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to ECM target jammer strength and multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level
|
Ryysa
The Illuminati.
Cruel Intentions
|
Posted - 2008.05.06 17:20:00 -
[198]
Yeah, it's on the todo list... |
afflikshoN
|
Posted - 2008.05.07 04:23:00 -
[199]
Hope this gets stickied sometime soon - great guide. |
Ryysa
The Illuminati.
Cruel Intentions
|
Posted - 2008.05.07 11:07:00 -
[200]
Edited by: Ryysa on 07/05/2008 11:07:05
Originally by: afflikshoN
Hope this gets stickied sometime soon - great guide.
It hasn't been stickied in about a year, since CCP changed their "stickifying" policy on the S&M (ships and modules of course) forum. So I doubt it ;)
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Kis Kecheri
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 12:34:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 24/05/2008 12:34:00
Policy or not, this is one of the best EvE guides around.
|
Depopulo
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 15:28:00 -
[202]
Edited by: Depopulo on 12/06/2008 15:29:34
So lets say I have 2 Grav target jammers each with a jam strength 10 and 2 jammers each with a Grav jam strength of 5. I them attempt to jam a BS with a grav sensor strength of 20. In a nutshell the the first 2 jammers will each have a 50% chance of a successful jam and the second 2 will have each have a 25% chance of a successful jam. Is this correct?? Sorry if I'm stating the obvious..just want to make sure I understand it correectly. |
Random Incarnate
Australia and New Zealand Eve Corp
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 11:25:00 -
[203]
Yes, that is right.
The (1-(J/S)^n)*100 is only for calculating overall jam chance with multiple jammers
With your 2 10 strength jammers, you'd have a 75% chance to jam the BS, overall. |
RedScorpion777
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 18:37:00 -
[204]
Please clarify for me. Is it possible to breake the lock with ECM burst on target Mega sensor strength: 21 ECM burst 6.
|
Jerid Verges
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 20:16:00 -
[205]
That info on Scrambling was priceless, you could have possibly just saved a future ship of mine.
|
Ryysa
Paisti
Paisti Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.09.04 16:49:00 -
[206]
Originally by: RedScorpion777
Please clarify for me. Is it possible to breake the lock with ECM burst on target Mega sensor strength: 21 ECM burst 6.
yes.
You have a chance of 6/21*100% = 28.57% to break the mega's lock.
Originally by: Jerid Verges
That info on Scrambling was priceless, you could have possibly just saved a future ship of mine.
Glad I was of help :)
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Konrad Kurr
|
Posted - 2008.09.21 08:03:00 -
[207]
Great guide and bump to the first page so as not to lose it.
|
Ryysa
Paisti
|
Posted - 2008.09.27 21:02:00 -
[208]
Mh, if anyone feels like updating/fixing some parts, feel free to contact me via my website (My Music in my sig).
Glad it's still of use to people 1.5 year later.
EW Guide - Music Downloader - My Music |
Rez Drazdir
|
Posted - 2008.10.04 11:57:00 -
[209]
Gr8 one! so happy i found it :D tnx Ryysa! |
Forum Chav
|
Posted - 2008.10.06 20:03:00 -
[210]
worthy bump
|
velmistr Ecco
Caldari
InNova Tech Inc
Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.07 21:01:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Ryysa
Mh, if anyone feels like updating/fixing some parts, feel free to contact me via my website (My Music in my sig).
Glad it's still of use to people 1.5 year later.
I might be blind, but where is your sig  ?
Quote:
Weirdtopia > i need help in eve
Bloodspoon > ...you installed eve?
Weirdtopia > ya 14 day trial
Bloodspoon > did you unistall WoW
Weirdtopia > no
Bloodspoon > then i can't help ya
|
Ryysa
Paisti
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 22:10:00 -
[212]
You probably did not enable sigs in your forum settings or you are not logged into the forums.
EW Guide - Music Downloader - My Music |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 22:16:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Ryysa
You probably did not enable sigs in your forum settings or you are not logged into the forums.
Is this the only thread you check on Ryysa? You don't seem to post elsewhere anymore.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR
Liang - Destro/Azazel@WAR
www.kwikdeath.org |
bardess
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 13:28:00 -
[214]
With the formula presented for ECM jamming isn't the change allways really low to do so effectivly?
|
Ryysa
Paisti
|
Posted - 2008.10.30 15:27:00 -
[215]
Edited by: Ryysa on 30/10/2008 15:27:55
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Is this the only thread you check on Ryysa? You don't seem to post elsewhere anymore.
-Liang
Pretty much, I also ***** OOPE...
No more EvE for me pretty much.
Originally by: bardess
With the formula presented for ECM jamming isn't the change allways really low to do so effectivly?
If you combine multiple jammers, the chance is pretty good. But - it's only chance, there is no 100%.
EW Guide - Music Downloader - My Music |
Robdon
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 07:15:00 -
[216]
Hi,
Not sure I understand your formula.
If you apply it to a frigate, like the Burst that has a strength of 4, you get a negative number.
Number of Racial Jammers = 2
Each Jammer Strength = 12.20313
Burst Sensor Strength = 4
So...
C = (1-(1-J/S)^n)*100%
-320.6 = (1-(1-12.20313/4)^2)*100
Am I calculating that incorrectly, or is there a problem with the formula?
Thanks,
Rob.
|
Ryysa
Paisti
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 17:21:00 -
[217]
If the strength of a single jammer is higher than the overall sensor strength of the target, the jam is always 100% successful.
Yes, I could adjust my formula for this case, but there is no need.
EW Guide - Music Downloader - My Music |
Hurtado Soneka
Caldari
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.01.04 18:00:00 -
[218]
very nice and helpful guide thank you
|
rantuket
Caldari
legion industries ltd
|
Posted - 2009.01.12 07:44:00 -
[219]
Great stuff! Thanks very much for putting this together.
|
Brego Tralowski
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.12 17:07:00 -
[220]
Thanks for the guide, we have a cruiser tourney soon and I wanted to jam everything up so thanks for the help.
Free bump
-----------------------------------------------
Tralowski independent Traders (TiT) Building Capital components and Capital repair modules. |
Dasalt Istgut
|
Posted - 2009.01.12 17:23:00 -
[221]
Goes to show how incredibly crappy the Keres is that its not even mentioned that it has a tiny disruptor/scram range bonus.
|
kalarlin
|
Posted - 2009.01.12 18:11:00 -
[222]
great guide... one thing though.. u did not mention the kitsune as one of the caldari ecm ships.. with a 100% ecm strengh bonus straight off with 10% to optimal range and 5% total cap.. it makes a brilliant little boat.. mine an't failed me yet! |
Jack Jomar
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 10:09:00 -
[223]
Ryysa, I'm going to be contacting you in-game via evemail in a couple of hours, but I'd like to ask your permission to use and source this guide in another document if I may. The reasons will be explained in the evemail.
Please drop me a line, either on this character, or the one that sends the mail. Cheers.
|
Ryysa
Paisti
Paisti Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.28 16:49:00 -
[224]
Edited by: Ryysa on 28/01/2009 16:49:24
Originally by: Jack Jomar
Ryysa, I'm going to be contacting you in-game via evemail in a couple of hours, but I'd like to ask your permission to use and source this guide in another document if I may. The reasons will be explained in the evemail.
Please drop me a line, either on this character, or the one that sends the mail. Cheers.
I don't really play EvE anymore.
But yes, if you give credit, feel free to use this guide as you like.
Regarding the EW frigs...
If you check WHEN the guide was written, you will see why they are not mentioned.
EW Guide - Music Downloader - My Music |
Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2009.01.28 20:31:00 -
[225]
Hello Ryysa,
I sent an email to your hotmail account a few months ago regarding caretaking your EW guide in a new thread, updated to the current EVE landscape, and maintaining the guide for future generations.
If this is acceptable, it would be my privilege to do so. If not, then no harm done.
-Wannabe
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Don't harsh my mellow |
Fyrkraag
Caldari
The Knights Templar
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Posted - 2009.02.20 11:19:00 -
[226]
Yes, please take over the guide.
While the guide covers diminishing returns on multiple dampener modules, I think it should mention how multiple ships work.
For example, let's say that all my dampaeners combined with target range scripts dampen the target to 27% of original targeting range. or,
R=0.27*R0
Now imagine a hypothetical copy of me, and we'll call him Fyrkraag2, is also flying the same ship with the same skills and same fittings, so his collective dampeners also reduce a target's range to 27% of original targeting range.
Now Fyrkraag1 and Fyrkraag2 both dampen the target. Is the dampening effect equivalent to us acting as one big ship with diminishing returns on the 4th, 5th, etc.. dampening modules, or is it R=0.27^2*R0 (<-- basically dampened to hell)
If this is covered in the thread, please add it to the guide =-) I also support the idea of the above poster taking over the guide, or for that matter, any poster taking over the guide :)
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TKT - Fyrkraag
The Knights Templar - Achievement with style: Maturity, integrity, respect.
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SpaceSquirrels
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.22 02:46:00 -
[227]
awesome post nice work. |
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