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Update on investigation into allegations of misconduct

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:08:00 - [601] Why hasnt the question about the confirmed MSN contacts been touched? In a thread about developer misconduct you'd atleast expect it to be mentioned wouldnt you? Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Buxaroo Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.30 02:21:00 - [602] OK, looks like Goons jsut got pwned in the face with their "allegations" Link: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=472 oh and first! "No matter where you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai
Obron Mettlo Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 02:52:00 - [603] Edited by: Obron Mettlo on 30/05/2007 02:50:46 Originally by: Buxaroo Edited by: Buxaroo on 30/05/2007 02:23:22 Edited by: Buxaroo on 30/05/2007 02:22:57 Edited by: Buxaroo on 30/05/2007 02:21:28 OK, looks like Goons just got pwned in the face with their "allegations" Link: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=472 Excuse me they said "an unnamed corporation", not Goonfleet.
Kryztal Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.30 03:12:00 - [604] Originally by: Obron Mettlo Edited by: Obron Mettlo on 30/05/2007 02:50:46 Originally by: Buxaroo Edited by: Buxaroo on 30/05/2007 02:23:22 Edited by: Buxaroo on 30/05/2007 02:22:57 Edited by: Buxaroo on 30/05/2007 02:21:28 OK, looks like Goons just got pwned in the face with their "allegations" Link: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=472 Excuse me they said "an unnamed corporation", not Goonfleet. Your not excused, we all saw the threads. Give it a rest and move on to the next game you want to ruin.
Zion Lior GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 03:24:00 - [605] Originally by: Obron Mettlo Edited by: Obron Mettlo on 30/05/2007 02:50:46 Originally by: Buxaroo Edited by: Buxaroo on 30/05/2007 02:23:22 Edited by: Buxaroo on 30/05/2007 02:22:57 Edited by: Buxaroo on 30/05/2007 02:21:28 OK, looks like Goons just got pwned in the face with their "allegations" Link: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=472 Excuse me they said "an unnamed corporation", not Goonfleet.
Kara Mori Finis Lumen	Posted - 2007.05.30 03:42:00 - [606] I wonder if I'll ever get an answer to this...because the dev blog didn't address it. CCP, how exactly do you plan us to believe that you'll remain impartial when we have members of the playerbase that shamelessly promote the fact that they have friends that work for you? Something obviously went wrong if you have a non-disclosure agreement... Something tells me that no matter how mean sounding any non-disclosure agreements may be, they're obviously not followed through on if we have people like Dianabolic gloating about it. What else isn't followed through on?
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.05.30 04:35:00 - [607] Originally by: Kara Mori I wonder if I'll ever get an answer to this...because the dev blog didn't address it. CCP, how exactly do you plan us to believe that you'll remain impartial when we have members of the playerbase that shamelessly promote the fact that they have friends that work for you? Something obviously went wrong if you have a non-disclosure agreement... Something tells me that no matter how mean sounding any non-disclosure agreements may be, they're obviously not followed through on if we have people like Dianabolic gloating about it. What else isn't followed through on? claiming to have a developer on your side is like claiming God is on your side don't ya think.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.30 04:44:00 - [608] Originally by: raven415 Originally by: Kara Mori I wonder if I'll ever get an answer to this...because the dev blog didn't address it. CCP, how exactly do you plan us to believe that you'll remain impartial when we have members of the playerbase that shamelessly promote the fact that they have friends that work for you? Something obviously went wrong if you have a non-disclosure agreement... Something tells me that no matter how mean sounding any non-disclosure agreements may be, they're obviously not followed through on if we have people like Dianabolic gloating about it. What else isn't followed through on? claiming to have a developer on your side is like claiming God is on your side don't ya think. Except when in the past that accusation was found to be true. Then it's akin to pointing to the giant hand which gives you things and saying that it did it once and it'll do it again, just for you.
Hugh Hefner Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:17:00 - [609] One wonders what kind of punishment the un-named corporation will get for griefing the entire community so boldly.
Ronzo Walrus Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:40:00 - [610] Originally by: Hugh Hefner One wonders what kind of punishment the corporation with dev MSN connections will get for cheating to get ahead of entire community I fixed it for you.
NereSky Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:29:00 - [611] Id like to say im happy with the conclusion but im not; the screenshots provided could be of any petition and reason as to why Sharkbait of all people had to enter the corp in question. Nothing has been investigated it seems just something thrown together (the investigation part) and more time spent in writing up a disclaimer. looks like we are stuck with certain Alliances getting privaleges over others - well i for one am out of here, as far as playing this game in a political enviroment and creating 'empires' s concerned this game is fixed. enjoy your prowess BOB although all what you have attained and will attain is through cheating - nothing more. looks like the years ive spent in this game has gone to waste and utterly ruined. OH and BOB maybe not now but in a future date more evidence will surface (only so much can be swept under the rug) which will finally force CCP to remove you from the game , until then ill keep an eye out and laugh at you. to CCP - your game is Borked, the dream was fine but the moment you used the player base to help run it , thats when all neutrality and customer care left.
Indomitus Rex Amarr H.Y.D.R.A. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:35:00 - [612] Hey, I just graduated college and don't have money for a lawyer. Since CCP is going to sue me will the court appoint me someone?!?!? Really freaking out here. Really. Freaking. Out. Here. Really. And ya just don't get it. . .keep it copacetic. . .and ya learn to accept it. . .and oh you're so pathetic....
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.30 08:05:00 - [613] Originally by: Dominique Parr Let's see if I can break down the logic I'm seeing Goons and supporters using concerning CCP and the T20 Incident. T20 = Richard Nixon CCP = Members of The US Government T20 rigged the T2 lottery system, therefore all of CCP is cheaters. = Richard Nixon rigged the elections, therefore all of members of the US Government are cheaters. Do you see where your logic is failing? You're applying the actions of one to a group. This is a simple logical fallacy. You may fool a few people into believing this, that's too be expected. We live in a society where people bought a rock as a pet. But it doesn't mean what you're saying is true. T20 was the first entirely Official Scandal that I know of regarding CCP developers. Of course the handling of this serious matter was met with confusion and poor judgement. You need to remember, CCP (as well as us) are only human, no one is ever perfect. Forgive and Forget, while forget is out of the picture, at least forgive. No, that is not the reason for the Nixon comparison. The reason for the Nixon comparison is that the 'proper way' according to CCP and some Bobbits to deal with stuff like this is to report it through the 'proper channels', i.e. the petition system. Analogously, it would be like Nixon complaining that Woodward went public rather than report it through 'the proper channels', which in that case would have been the FBI I guess. CCP is intrinsically incapable of executing an investigation into their own behaviour, because too many people don't believe them anymore. What would have happened if Enron got investigated by...Enron? You think the conclusion could EVER be that they did anything wrong? Saying CCP is a professional company just doesn't cut it, you can't trust people to investigate themselves. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Janya Rykayn	Posted - 2007.05.30 08:32:00 - [614] I am not affiliated in any way, though I do have friends who have become both Goons and Bobbies. And I don't believe for a second that GF is disbanding, it's just yet another mirror in the SomethingAwful funhouse of horrors. For the record, I don't necessarily believe or disbelieve the Goon accusations. SomethingAwful are the furthest thing from credibility. Personally I don't like the idea of these huge empires in-game. I think it detracts from the gameplay experience in many ways. But at the same time, CCP have got to realize how bad it looks for them to be attempting to silence Goonswarm by taking legal action. It not only gives credence to the corruption allegations but it also puts CCP in the role of a megacorporation trying to quash dissent. I chalk it up to inexperience, but if it continues you're going to get massive terrible PR. Not from me BTW. You can control these forums, guys, and delete posts, threads and people who express sentiments that you don't like, but you can't control Digg, Slashdot and the rest of the tubes. CCP: I couldn't have given a rip about this whole thing, but your own actions and responses paint you in the worst possible light. These people are trolling you. Look into "superpower baiting" and "reflexive control measures." They're not strong enough to harm you directly so they goad you into angry disproportionate action which damages you and your reputation far more than they could. How do you think it's going to look on Digg if you sue or C&D these clowns? Whether or not you're in the right is beside the point; that really depends on facts that I have no way of knowing, and the waters are so muddied (by design, and by a group who are semi-professional muddiers of water). But locking threads, deleting posts and now threats of legal action make you look like the villain and the aggressor. It's just the way public perception works. A good example is what happened with the whole Metallica vs Napster fiasco. Lars Ulrich was perfectly within his rights to seek legal action. But it ended up being a horrible tactical move which he later repudiated. Because of his lack of understanding of public relations, the band acted in a way that severely damaged their reputation among their fans. CCP is falling victim to jujitsu. In attempting to safe-guard their reputation, they are behaving as an aggressor, and doing so in such a way that alienates a large part of their fanbase. Mark my words, CCP, you are reacting precisely as intended. Somewhere, Goonswarm are lolling it up in teh intarwebs as they never have before. These guys (SA) are master manipulators and have been famous for it for years. As soon as you get mad, you lose. If you try to sue them it will have been their greatest troll ever. "The strong that fight the weak become weak." -Martin Van Creveld
Zylatis Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.30 08:50:00 - [615] Edited by: Zylatis on 30/05/2007 08:49:10 Ok this is clearly getting stupid. Legal action? Cmon, who are you guys, Disney? I suggest you turn to your Gm department instead of your legal department to fix these problems. For starters, given previous events, you are asking for a MASSIVE ammount of trust from paying customers with regard to your investigations. Now im not going to say anything one way or another, but pressing charges against a player for something like this in an effort to save your reputation is going to do the exact opposite. Think about what your doing before you do it, or your going to upset a lot of people. Seriously upset them. This is entering into an entirely new league now. Tread carefully is all i can say. It used to be about the music man.
Janya Rykayn	Posted - 2007.05.30 09:36:00 - [616] Edited by: Janya Rykayn on 30/05/2007 09:36:21 Agreed, they really need to look at what the public reaction would be to that. No matter what the truth actually is, it would look to the public like an attempt to quash allegations of misconduct (which, well, it is.) When I posted this before and was directed to repost it here, Duck Andcover had this to say after my original thread was locked: Quote: In essence, Punch an offender in the face and he may get provoked enough to do it again. The public, outraged, may follow his lead singing hymns and waving pitchforks. Ask him politely not to do that, and he may laugh in your face and do it again without fearing repercussions. The public, outraged, may follow his lead snickering about your lack of resolve. And how good is it going to look when the suit gets laughed out of court? Which, trust me, it will. And when the whole thing is not only just in fifty Digg threads and Slashdot posts, but is in semi-major news outlets as well? Legal action is a disproportionate response. One that will-- wait and see- play right into the hands of the accusers by creating a far larger and more damaging media stink. The Digg stink of last week is nothing compared to what we're going to see if CCP pursue legal action. Perhaps you're naive, guys, about the attitude of the net public to that sort of thing, so let me summarize it for you. The attitude of the net public to that sort of thing is what we would call bad. Whatever you hope to gain by going after a gnat with a sledgehammer will be far outweighed by how ridiculous and powerless you look in the process. I find the name "CCP Sharkbait" to be ironic. I love you guys, I love Eve and all the above is not intended to be a criticism. Just words to the wise. CCP, you may think you're strong because of your money, but in fact the reverse is true. Think long and hard before you step farther into these peoples' playing field because that's what you're doing.
Zylatis Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.30 09:54:00 - [617] Edited by: Zylatis on 30/05/2007 09:54:32 The people that accuse you of these things do so because they love EVE. If they didnt they wouldnt be so passionate in their words. Take solice in this, that you have created something magnificent, dont let it self destruct because of shortsightedness and bitterness. Remember: EVE would not be the only seamless universe with 30,000 people at one time without those 30,000 people. Regards -Z
Janya Rykayn	Posted - 2007.05.30 10:17:00 - [618] Come to think of it, this may actually be covered under whistleblower laws. If not, it comes close. You don't want to look like the villain here.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.30 11:24:00 - [619] Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Goons would get certain rights if sued. For example, if CCP accuses Goonswarm from falsely accusing CCP to be backing BoB, would it be possible, as part of their defense, that Goons would be entitled to force CCP developers and GMs etc. to divulge who their characters are? Such information would be very material to any lawsuit, would Goons be entitled to get that information? signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Janya Rykayn	Posted - 2007.05.30 11:47:00 - [620] Edited by: Janya Rykayn on 30/05/2007 11:59:10 Yes, and all corporate emails would come out. Furthermore the previous admitted corruption would be scrutinized. What's a judge going to say about that? I'll tell you what he'd say. He'd comment on how terrible it looks that CCP employees were accused of cheating before, cheating was denied, and the original accusations were found to be correct. Then he, or someone, would say "who's to say CCP isn't cheating still?" He'd also notice that the dev involved was not fired, and that would not look good. He'd talk about uneven enforcement of EULA policies. Then Goonfleet lawyers would demand, and would receive, all internal corporation communiques. All logs. They would analyze these logs. In these logs, they would beyond a shadow of a doubt find gigantic amounts of what would APPEAR TO BE collusion between devs and Bobbies, and probably numerous other parties including Goons. Whether or not the appearance is correct wouldn't matter a whit. They would pull out all the material involving the previous cheating, all internal communiques regarding that, all MSN chat logs between bobbies and devs. They would ask why MSN was used at all when the game has a perfectly functional (usually) chat system. Then, after all this material was made public and was spun by Goonfleet lawyers to show CCP in the worst POSSIBLE negative light... then the case would be thrown out of court because charges of slander require that the slanderer not have reasonable evidence that the possibly slanderous allegations are true. In fact, the reverse is correct: due to past dev misconduct, to suspect further collusion between devs and BOB would be perfectly reasonable, reasonable enough in fact that just about everyone in the CCP fanbase wonders about it. Due to previous developer misconduct if nothing else, I suspect that the case would get thrown out of court regardless because CCP's record on this matter is marred. It may be that CCP actually WANT the logs scrutinized so that they can be cleared of wrongdoing. But whether they're cleared or not, it's not going to look good. At all. Keep in mind also that SomethingAwful does not exactly have a reputation to guard. I can't see this as helping CCP in any way. Sure looks like a terrible decision to me, and one made in anger at that. Think on it, guys. If it would look that bad in court, how is it going to look to your fans? Lawsuits? Are you even serious?
sb404 Caldari Fluffy Rabbit Killers	Posted - 2007.05.30 12:03:00 - [621] Would it be possible to have a DS1 statement on the recent release (partial at that) of the said petition that started it all? sb404 Director of Internal Affairs
Jadiin Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.05.30 12:08:00 - [622] Originally by: NereSky Id like to say im happy with the conclusion but im not; the screenshots provided could be of any petition and reason as to why Sharkbait of all people had to enter the corp in question. Nothing has been investigated it seems just something thrown together (the investigation part) and more time spent in writing up a disclaimer. looks like we are stuck with certain Alliances getting privaleges over others - well i for one am out of here, as far as playing this game in a political enviroment and creating 'empires' s concerned this game is fixed. enjoy your prowess BOB although all what you have attained and will attain is through cheating - nothing more. looks like the years ive spent in this game has gone to waste and utterly ruined. OH and BOB maybe not now but in a future date more evidence will surface (only so much can be swept under the rug) which will finally force CCP to remove you from the game , until then ill keep an eye out and laugh at you. to CCP - your game is Borked, the dream was fine but the moment you used the player base to help run it , thats when all neutrality and customer care left. How do you sleep at night with all that paranoia? Did you know CCP is also affiliated with the FBI and the CIA. Oh yes and BoB has msn links with those agencies as well. Scary stuff eh?
Lrrp Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange	Posted - 2007.05.30 13:28:00 - [623] Legal action? Hmmmm. Isn't EVE supposed to be a game? You know, a place where we come to have fun and be carefree? Appears not. Make the wrong comment in game or the forums and suddenly you are faced with a lawsuit? As others have said, CCP will be making a really bad pr mistake. Lets see, Joe Blow gamer is looking for his first on-line game to play. So he looks around on a few websites and BANG, he reads how CCP is suing some of its players over comments about cheating. Good game to play he reads, but might want to consider risks involved by doing so. EVE Online gets scratched off of Joe Blows list of games he wants to get involved in. After all there are a lot of on-line games available. Scenario two is a young person looking to play but needs parent approval. Now EVE is a great game. No blood and gore. No blatent sexual themes. But CCP have sued players. Whoa! What? My kid plays this game and there is a chance my kid may be sued? Not while I pay the bill. So another new account is gone. So you see CCP, you risk not only losing established player base, but limiting your take from the pool of available new players. It's all about competition. You are not the only game in town.
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2007.05.30 13:37:00 - [624] Originally by: Kryztal Your not excused, we all saw the threads. Give it a rest and move on to the next game you want to ruin. Seems to me that CCP and BOB are doing a pretty good job ruining the game without goons help So..if this is such a routine activity, then there must be hundreds of cases of a GM joining a corp and adding Director roles to "Fix a Bug". So step forward CEO's, have you ever seen this before? As for the "conclusive" proof, since we don't know what your petition screen shots look like anyway, you could have posted anything. Lets be honest, its not hard to knock up a screen full of text with a couple of drop downs... What is disgusting in all this is the attitude from CCP customer service...basically it's, "if you don't like it quit the game, and thanks for your money sucker."
Black Bird1000	Posted - 2007.05.30 13:43:00 - [625] well, sometimes it happens that you file a petition, but i never arrives at CCP. Afaik it's a problem at with your own PC (or at least in my case it was my PC which has caused the error - it just didn't sent the petetion, dunno why) Maybe that is what happened. in the hope that nothing like "ok we had lied sorry" post was posted at the last 24 sides i will post my post
Nai Ling Amarr Middle Finger Technology Ghosts Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.30 13:56:00 - [626] Originally by: Janya Rykayn Edited by: Janya Rykayn on 30/05/2007 09:52:33 Edited by: Janya Rykayn on 30/05/2007 09:36:21 Agreed, they really need to look at what the public reaction would be to that. No matter what the truth actually is, it would look to the public like an attempt to quash allegations of misconduct (which, well, it is.) When I posted this before and was directed to repost it here, Duck Andcover had this to say after my original thread was locked: Quote: In essence, Punch an offender in the face and he may get provoked enough to do it again. The public, outraged, may follow his lead singing hymns and waving pitchforks. Ask him politely not to do that, and he may laugh in your face and do it again without fearing repercussions. The public, outraged, may follow his lead snickering about your lack of resolve. And how good is it going to look when the suit gets laughed out of court? Which, trust me, it will. And when the whole thing is not only just in fifty Digg threads and Slashdot posts, but is in semi-major news outlets as well? Legal action is a disproportionate response. One that will-- wait and see- play right into the hands of the accusers by creating a far larger and more damaging media stink. The Digg stink of last week is nothing compared to what we're going to see if CCP pursue legal action. Perhaps you're naive, guys, about the attitude of the net public to that sort of thing, so let me summarize it for you. The attitude of the net public to that sort of thing is what we would call bad. Whatever you hope to gain by going after a gnat with a sledgehammer will be far outweighed by how ridiculous and powerless you look in the process. I find the name "CCP Sharkbait" to be ironic. I love you guys, I love Eve and all the above is not intended to be a criticism. Just words to the wise. CCP, you may think you're strong because of your money, but in fact the reverse is true. Think long and hard before you step farther into these peoples' playing field because that's what you're doing. Legal action is your thermonuclear warfare in this situation. To go there makes it appear that you don't have any options that are less extreme. It appears, further, that you are powerless in the situation and need outside authorities to solve the problem for you. I'm certainly not an expert on international law regarding allegations of misconduct posed by imaginary corporations, but I suspect your chances of success in court are slim. And really, even if you somehow won, CCP will look like a bully. So if an organization of people were making baseless accusations of slander + libel against your company, you would sit idly by and let them ruin your image and reputation?? CCP has done nothing but tell the truth when it has come to any major scandals in this game. It just seems that many people in this game seem to think that if they can't win the game by in-game functions, they will destroy it's credibility using out of game means. It's those sort of people that do not belong in this game, and if it means removing 5000 people from the game, I'd gladly pay an extra $5/month for each of my accounts, for I would be happy that this useless dribble and drama would cease to invade my gameplay. Baseless and continuous accusations on this forum can ideally be viewed in court as libel. Any respectable news organization that repeats these accusations as truths will then also be guilty of the same crime, and subject to all penalties levied by the courts. Libel - Noun S: (n) libel (a false and malicious publication printed for the purpose of defaming a living person(s)) S: (n) libel (the written statement of a plaintiff explaining the cause of action (the defamation) and any relief he seeks) _______________________________________________
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:19:00 - [627] All of this is soo sad... for the people that love CCP and EVE that is... and for CCP, they really really do not deserve this kind of crap. They really don't. And the fact that people are still thinking that this is some huge cover up tells a helluvalot more about them then it does about CCP. Or BoB for that matter. Start enjoying this game, instead of being angry about losing it.
Edward Slain Hell's Horsemen Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:20:00 - [628] Edited by: Edward Slain on 30/05/2007 14:19:50 Eh, tired of the threads.
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:27:00 - [629] Originally by: Gegi Wau Concerning the screenshots that, according to you and other tinfoil hatters, could be fake. What is CCP supposed to do? Whenever they come up with evidence, the die-hard conspiracy theorists will pipe up and dismiss it as possibly fabricated. You either accept the evidence, or you don't. Calling me a tinfoil hatter is your best defence It's just I am not brainwashed by the BOB and CCP whitewash machine that is rolling into action. I don't blindly accept what CCP say to be the truth, as in the past they were proved to have lied over the t20 scandal in an attempt to cover it up. but ...now...now they are telling the truth honest. btw the MSM thing IS preferential treatment. So there is even a lie on the post clearing CCPs good name.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:30:00 - [630] No you're brainwashed by goons and disgruntled ex-volunteers... a much better source then professionals that earn their living with this game... MUCH MUCH better......

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