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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:18:00 -
[61]
Originally by: El'essar Viocragh
Originally by: shinsushi I have this crazy idea to prevent the massive amount of whining when EvE has unscheduled downtimes. Skill Queues.
I know it sound strange, bare with me though. Allow a character to toggle a secondary skill that will automatically begin training when the primary is done. This way no one could ever complain about this stuff.
Train longer skills :D
Knowing your skill won't finish another 24 days makes you feel comfy.
PS: and just to reiterrate from the other thread. Nice work guys, ONLY viable option in such a case. And I'm glad you had the balls to do it. Wouldn't want it any other way.
Thanks for the info! I guess my 18 hour skill wasn't long enough.....
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Willow Zuni
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:19:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Willow Zuni on 19/10/2007 23:22:05 1. It was absolutely the right action to the problem (and I say that as someone who had two characters finishing skills ten minutes after the unexpected DT as I was opening EO as it died) 2. The forums use the same security as EVE does; if you have them separate then you can't have the same security that a post by X was actually made by X. 3. The site front page had ID=XXX for this thread a few minutes ago; needs updating if not already done 4. Those who are, stop whining! nine hours of no training (at worst) isn't going to make much difference in the long-term nature of EVE. But yes, a 'default' queue would be really nice - make it to only kick in when there are unexpected events (ie not normal DT or people who can't be bothered to log in) 5. How about a "http://status.eve-online.com/" page hosted elsewhere that just has an up/down/message on it so that there is somewhere *trustworthy* to find out what is happening. Today was the right thing to do, but a "Sorry pilots; there is an issue which meant we've had to take things down a while. More info later but all your isk and stuff is safe" would have been great and settle the worries of a lot of people.
Fly safe!
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Rilder
Caldari THC LTD Dogs of War.
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:19:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 19/10/2007 22:56:41 First \o/
Thanks for the information... its good to see that CCP is communicating, even as people spread dozens of false rumors claiming doom.
Some rumors I've seen, for laughs:
- Cluster hacked, rollback for obvious reasons. - Terrorist attack (ranged from bombs on subways to nuclear explosion) on London, TQ servers wrecked - All sovereignty data reset meaning every single system is back to Sov1 on day 1 including NPC space. - All wallet data lost, CCP will compensate this by giving everyone one free day of EVE. - BoB's towers in FAT-6P were coming out of reinforced, CCP crashed the servers to protect them. - Also, the rollback is for... -- EVE-TV -- EVE-O, Dark Shikari is devastated
-- All back-ups and data (except for one when Eve came out of beta) lost, everybody starting from scratch. --
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FuQue
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:21:00 -
[64]
^^ I'd like that, actually. Or another shard to start from scratch from. I'd pay for it.
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Arushia
Nova Labs Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:21:00 -
[65]
Originally by: elider CCP you want me to belive that: -An EVE-Online player connects from his little laptop and hacks your firewall -Then he magically knows the internal structure of your networks and finds the database server -Then because he is such a genius , he is able to hack the security of the database server too... - Then he is able to figure out in some minutes the structure of such a complex database so he finds his wallet entry and puts there some ISK
Umm, CCP publishes the database contents and format in their database exports. Doesn't sound that improbable, especially if the sharkbait quote is real.
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Sky Grunthor
Minmatar MKS Directorate
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:21:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Kyoto Rose Edited by: Kyoto Rose on 19/10/2007 22:58:51
Wrangler, see here: http://www.battleclinic.com/forum/index.php/topic,12960.msg57856.html#msg57856
That's where I first saw it.
My thread got linkied! YAH!
So does this mean I can claim first page as well?
\0/ | <-- danatcofo == Sky Grunthor / \
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Isabelle
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:21:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Isabelle on 19/10/2007 23:23:26
Originally by: elider Edited by: elider on 19/10/2007 23:16:24
Originally by: Schalana
Originally by: elider CCP you want me to belive that: -An EVE-Online player connects from his little laptop and hacks your firewall -Then he magically knows the internal structure of your networks and finds the database server -Then because he is such a genius , he is able to hack the security of the database server too... - Then he is able to figure out in some minutes the structure of such a complex database so he finds his wallet entry and puts there some ISK
Just LOL!!! I bet most of your programmers are not able to do that from his desk in CCP office and you want us to belive someone did that from home without any knowledge of internal network arhitecture or database structure?
One that really belives this .....must have seen too many bad Hollywood movies
Of course, this couldn't of happened could it....
Relational databases don't make sense to hackers, firewalls are totally in passable. If you think this is true, you've not got enough knowledge to comment.
CCP did EXACTLY what they should of, imagine leaving this until the next d/t, the damage that could of been done. Also, in repsonse to the 'weekly' backups comment, I'm hoping that they are on some sort of continuous backup system?
Big fan of Mission Impossible ?
Clearly you are not very well versed in computer security. Remember:
1) All complex systems are collections of simple systems.
2) The only secure system is turned off, locked in a safe
3) In order for penetration to occur, typically only one system on the network need be compromised. It will act as a gateway into the soft chewy bits.
4) Firewalls are not the be-all and end-all of security. For every service going out, you have an attack surface going in.
5) lots more.
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TomParad0x
Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:22:00 -
[68]
Edited by: TomParad0x on 19/10/2007 23:22:58
Originally by: elider CCP you want me to belive that: -An EVE-Online player connects from his little laptop and hacks your firewall -Then he magically knows the internal structure of your networks and finds the database server -Then because he is such a genius , he is able to hack the security of the database server too... - Then he is able to figure out in some minutes the structure of such a complex database so he finds his wallet entry and puts there some ISK
Just LOL!!! I bet most of your programmers are not able to do that from his desk in CCP office and you want us to belive someone did that from home without any knowledge of internal network arhitecture or database structure?
One that really belives this .....must have seen too many bad Hollywood movies
Your either:
1) Joking 2) Being sarcastic (Kind of falls in with joking, either way your failing at it) 3) One of the most ignorant people on this forums.
I am going to guess 3.
In case you actually believe what you are saying, Isabelle is correct, you are not.
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dev1lwoman
Cynos R US
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:22:00 -
[69]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
I believe there are plans to separate the forums from the server, but that's somewhere in the future. We have however learned from this and will put up a system where we can broadcast messages in similar cases as this. We of course hope we wont have to do that for quite some time, if ever.
I sincerely hope you dont have too either, But thank you for taking the points raised on board.
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K Kinnison
Gallente Galactic Patrol Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:22:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Mel Ionix Two very obvious things CCP should learn from this:
1) Noone had a ****in clue what was happening, rumours were rife. You NEED a way to communicate with customers in situations like this, i.e. put the forums on a seperate server
I totally agree.. I logged on at 8pm GMT, only to find the server was down, and the web server too... no information whatsoever!! CCP need some way to communicate to the EVE members when problems like this happen.
K K.
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Kayna Eelai
Gallente GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:23:00 -
[71]
Originally by: CCP Spielmann At 10:25 GMT today we discovered an anomaly in the EVE Online Database indicating a potential exploit. Our policy in such cases is to mobilize a taskforce of internal and external experts to evaluate the situation. At 12:57 that group concluded that our best course of action was to go completely dark while an exhaustive scan of our entire infrastructure was executed.
What we discovered was an indication that one of our databases was being accessed through a security breach. While some may feel that such a drastic reaction was not warranted, it is always our approach to err on the side of caution in order to protect the players.
We of course understand the effect and disruption this has had for our players and apologize for not having been able to explain to the community what was going on. In these cases it can often be counterproductive to containment to give out information while we are in the process of evaluating the scope of the problem.
Our taskforce quickly found the security breach and prevented that from being used. We subsequently found three cases of database actions being performed through the security breach but none of those affected other users than the one doing the actions. We can also confirm that no personal details such as usersĘ credentials or credit card numbers were exposed through this incident.
The servers were brought back online at 22:00 GMT and we will of course continue to monitor the situation closely over the weekend and the following week.
Again we sincerely apologize for this disruption.
Regards, -J=n H÷r=dal Chief Operating Officer, CCP
and it was not like possible, to make a www.eve-online.com/index.html (ergo: no database involved) to let us know what the hell is going on?
i am a paying customer and i can't believe you had us sitting in the complete dark FOR HOURS with zero information. we had t oaccess 3rd party places to get (unconfirmed) bits and pieces of information. things only started to light up a bit when everyone went to eve radio to get some more info.
very bad towards your customers. worse than blizzard, and that means a lot.
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Lord Oz
Caldari Warrior Nation United SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:23:00 -
[72]
lol yeah im actually the one who started the nuke thing on IRC =P Cant believe it got listed ahha. OHS NOES iceland was nuked! SKILL QUEUE
It's on the "to do" list since, like, forever. Just do it already, ffs. It's not like it's rocket science...
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Red Desire
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:26:00 -
[73]
Originally by: CCP Spielmann At 10:25 GMT today we discovered an anomaly in the EVE Online Database indicating a potential exploit.
This is the only thing that matters, the rest is PR. I find hard to belive that a person "hacked" through all CCP security, not impossible. I think that a person might found some account password which had write rights in the data base. After he studied the data base he made some modifications,then my bet is CCP found something by mistake and they freaked out. The question what I'm courios aboutis how did he get the password and access to the network.
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Data Masked
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:28:00 -
[74]
Originally by: CCP Spielmann What we discovered was an indication that one of our databases was being accessed through a security breach. While some may feel that such a drastic reaction was not warranted, it is always our approach to err on the side of caution in order to protect the players..
First I would like to applaud CCP for taking swift action on the breach once discovered.
I am however a bit uneasy with the knowledge that CCP's information assurance discipline allowed it to happen in the first place. I am hoping that this is an isolated incident and that other people have not also wormed their way into the underlying structure of the code and databases for personal gain or profit (or worse intentions).
I am not at all concerned about lost skill training time (big whup, so you lost a few hours - in the long term, does it matter that it takes you 1/2 a day more to get that skill?) but I would like reassurances from CCP that they will beef up thier security and ensure this type of thing is mitigated as best as they can. DM
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Madelchai
Gallente Stimulus
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:28:00 -
[75]
I don't know why people think they're entitled to constant up to the minute responses.
The server was down. Obviously something serious happened, as CCP doesn't just take it down for no reason. They're working their best to fix whatever problem there is.
Having them update you every 15 minutes isn't going to help get it fixed, or make the problem(s) and less severe.
Nothing good will come of it, all it will lead to is a place for people to whine about the server being down and how much CCP sucks snd they're losing skill training time and they're canceling their 12 accounts and general boohooing.
Maybe you just shouldn't obsess about EVE, find something else to do with your time for a few minimal hours, and come back when the problem is fixed, and find out what happened then.
Just a thought.
------ Fighting is like sex. The dirtier the better. |
Drenan
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:29:00 -
[76]
I find it strange that CCP apparently do not have biometric security on network accounts that have access to the database server?
Or maybe it was a case of 'password on the post-it note' attached to the monitor? |
Shari Vegas
Minmatar Ctrl Alt Elites
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:29:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: CCP Spielmann At 10:25 GMT today we discovered an anomaly in the EVE Online Database indicating a potential exploit. Our policy in such cases is to mobilize a taskforce of internal and external experts to evaluate the situation. At 12:57 that group concluded that our best course of action was to go completely dark while an exhaustive scan of our entire infrastructure was executed.
What we discovered was an indication that one of our databases was being accessed through a security breach. While some may feel that such a drastic reaction was not warranted, it is always our approach to err on the side of caution in order to protect the players.
We of course understand the effect and disruption this has had for our players and apologize for not having been able to explain to the community what was going on. In these cases it can often be counterproductive to containment to give out information while we are in the process of evaluating the scope of the problem.
Our taskforce quickly found the security breach and prevented that from being used. We subsequently found three cases of database actions being performed through the security breach but none of those affected other users than the one doing the actions. We can also confirm that no personal details such as usersĘ credentials or credit card numbers were exposed through this incident.
The servers were brought back online at 22:00 GMT and we will of course continue to monitor the situation closely over the weekend and the following week.
Again we sincerely apologize for this disruption.
Regards, -J=n H÷r=dal Chief Operating Officer, CCP
and it was not like possible, to make a www.eve-online.com/index.html (ergo: no database involved) to let us know what the hell is going on?
i am a paying customer and i can't believe you had us sitting in the complete dark FOR HOURS with zero information. we had t oaccess 3rd party places to get (unconfirmed) bits and pieces of information. things only started to light up a bit when everyone went to eve radio to get some more info.
very bad towards your customers. worse than blizzard, and that means a lot.
You're an idiot.
"OMG WHOLE HOURS WITHOUT SOMETHING EVE RELATE O NOES!!!"
Originally by: CCP Wrangler I have no clue.
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Father Weebles
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:29:00 -
[78]
Yeah ofc this happens right when my skill finished. 7 hours of training down the drain. Add a damn skill queue..for the love of all things holy
"You leave anything for us?" "Just bodies." |
Scott Ryder
Infestation.
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:30:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Red Desire
Originally by: CCP Spielmann At 10:25 GMT today we discovered an anomaly in the EVE Online Database indicating a potential exploit.
This is the only thing that matters, the rest is PR. I find hard to belive that a person "hacked" through all CCP security, not impossible. I think that a person might found some account password which had write rights in the data base. After he studied the data base he made some modifications,then my bet is CCP found something by mistake and they freaked out. The question what I'm courios aboutis how did he get the password and access to the network.
im guessing a few islandic beers and some social engineering does the trick.
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Madelchai
Gallente Stimulus
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:31:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Father Weebles Yeah ofc this happens right when my skill finished. 7 hours of training down the drain. Add a damn skill queue..for the love of all things holy
Cry more.
------ Fighting is like sex. The dirtier the better. |
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mamolian
M. Corp M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:32:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
- BoB's towers in FAT-6P were coming out of reinforced, CCP crashed the servers to protect them.
Now that was funny..
-------------------------------
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:32:00 -
[82]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: dev1lwoman
REPOSTED FROM ANOTHER THREAD While todays server issues are going to be discussed in another thread, I believe there is one issue that while connected deserves a thread of its own.
While there was a lot of frustration on other forums and on the open TS hosted by BE at being unable to play, that frustration at times was almost anger at the inability of CCP to communicate at all.
Surely it is about time for CCP to look at hosting the forums seperatly from the game, a lot of the anger/frustration felt and expressed today could have been avoided if CCP had the means to communicate with its customer base.
Technical problems happen in any enviroment, that is understandable, not communicating with the paying customer is not.
Please CCP seperate the forum host from the game servers so at least in the future you have a working channel to keep us informed
ADDED: The issue here ISD is not wether the details of this security breach could have been discussed, but if the forums were on a sperate server/host there could have been at least some element of communication. It is simplicity itself to create a datbase of users for the forums seperate from the main database that automatically updates as people sign up to Eve-Online. and when the main game database is down the forums would still be open for CCP to let us know as much as is possible/wise.
I have ZERO problem with the actions taken today top secure the game database, I do have issues with the total lack of communication.
A simple post saying something like... "There are issues with the database that are being worked upon, this will take a few minutes/couple hours/we have no idea of how long but be assured we have every available person working on it etc" would have made a hell of a difference in easing the frustration some people felt.
I believe there are plans to separate the forums from the server, but that's somewhere in the future. We have however learned from this and will put up a system where we can broadcast messages in similar cases as this. We of course hope we wont have to do that for quite some time, if ever.
Thank you.
Good to hear.
Even a simple message with the log-in text from the IRC would be better than nothing.
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Nhilist
Rens 911
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:32:00 -
[83]
Originally by: elider CCP you want me to belive that: -An EVE-Online player connects from his little laptop and hacks your firewall -Then he magically knows the internal structure of your networks and finds the database server -Then because he is such a genius , he is able to hack the security of the database server too... - Then he is able to figure out in some minutes the structure of such a complex database so he finds his wallet entry and puts there some ISK
Just LOL!!! I bet most of your programmers are not able to do that from his desk in CCP office and you want us to belive someone did that from home without any knowledge of internal network arhitecture or database structure?
One that really belives this .....must have seen too many bad Hollywood movies
shut up.
select * from sys.objects where type = N'U' is really hard. . .
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elider
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:35:00 -
[84]
Edited by: elider on 19/10/2007 23:35:37 Dear Isabelle,
If you can do all that in few hours (hack in the entire collection of small systems) you are a genius :) RESPECT!
anyway...case closed. As the earlier post in here revealed...the guys walked right in having a database admin password. This made the things easy :)
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar FSK23
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:35:00 -
[85]
Originally by: shinsushi Thanks for the info! I guess my 18 hour skill wasn't long enough.....
In this case, it wasn't. But there will be other times when long skills end during times of server instability or unexpected downtimes. Or when a short skill is just long enough to finish right after TQ is up again.
It simply happens. Not often, but it does. And overall, does it really matter? -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
HotSeat
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:40:00 -
[86]
Best way too handle a situation like that CCP... so I didn't play for a few hours... no big deal :)
Sov 4 is nothing compared to the Power of the Grief !! |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:41:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai there is a difference between updates every 15 minutes and no info at all in over 6 hours.
Unfortunately with everything down I had to sit in IRC and ask people to post on any fansites and corp or alliance sites they could. But as I posted above we have learned from this and we'll put in some sort of system that will let us post official news somewhere in case anything like this happens again. Of course, we hope we won't ever have to use that kind of system.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online, CCP Games Email/Netfang
"The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it." |
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Kayna Eelai
Gallente GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:42:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Madelchai
Something happened. That's all you need to know.
if thats how you threat PAYING customers where you work, please tell me where it is to NEVER go there. thank you.
i've seen freeware websites and freeware games having better customer communication than this.
*snip* Don't flame, please. -Rauth
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
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shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:42:00 -
[89]
Edited by: shinsushi on 19/10/2007 23:43:44
Originally by: El'essar Viocragh
Originally by: shinsushi Thanks for the info! I guess my 18 hour skill wasn't long enough.....
In this case, it wasn't. But there will be other times when long skills end during times of server instability or unexpected downtimes. Or when a short skill is just long enough to finish right after TQ is up again.
It simply happens. Not often, but it does. And overall, does it really matter?
In the grand scheme of things, no... its like loosing 14k sp. Although I think if you take into consideration how easy a secondary skill queue would be, and the fact alot of times people end up with tons of 2-4 hour skills left to train, and the piece of mind you get (this is the most important thing) it makes perfect sense.
In eve there is one thing you can never replace, lost time. Isk and possetions/implants can be, but lost sps are gone forever. This fact most likely weighs on some of the customers minds (such as mine) and a simple queue would alleviate it. I mean people complain for a reason, sometimes its justified and sometimes its not. I cannot see how anyone would have a problem with having a 1 skill long queue thats disabled upon account deactivation.
To Wrangler: A simple response of "we are looking into it" or "no" wether I agree with it or not, would be appreciated. Its not just me you would be answering, but a large segment of your paying customer base. Thanks in advance for any response.
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dedica allestremita
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:42:00 -
[90]
Can you change my skill CCP Spielmann or CCP Wrangler, please, it finished oh 2.5 hours ago now, i was going to change it just before i got to work but i couldnt because of dt and now im at work for 12 hours!
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