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EVE Online service restored after unexpected downtime

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 16 post(s)
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:43:00 - [91] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Kayna Eelai there is a difference between updates every 15 minutes and no info at all in over 6 hours. Unfortunately with everything down I had to sit in IRC and ask people to post on any fansites and corp or alliance sites they could. But as I posted above we have learned from this and we'll put in some sort of system that will let us post official news somewhere in case anything like this happens again. Of course, we hope we won't ever have to use that kind of system. what about peopel who spread false rumours like digitalcommunist whow a sstating there would be a 4 week rollback and pasting what I can only presume are fake chatlogs with devs. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Kane Rizzel NovaKane Incorporated Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:43:00 - [92] Originally by: Kayna Eelai welcome to 2005 you should really start to look what other MMO companies are doing sometimes. you have several flaws here and there and if you would just take a look at others from time to time, you would have learned this lesson LONG AGO. sometimes i think CCP are sitting in some sort of bunker, cut off from the rest of the world, just sitting in their little universe not careing what happens outside there. could someone please sell this man a clue. CCP were desperately trying to get the issue sorted, I'm sure they're very sorry they weren't able to send you a personal update on what was happening as they were a touch busy. Originally by: High Sierra note to self: dont ever say anything to anyone on the internet about anything ever again.
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:43:00 - [93] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Kayna Eelai there is a difference between updates every 15 minutes and no info at all in over 6 hours. Unfortunately with everything down I had to sit in IRC and ask people to post on any fansites and corp or alliance sites they could. But as I posted above we have learned from this and we'll put in some sort of system that will let us post official news somewhere in case anything like this happens again. Of course, we hope we won't ever have to use that kind of system. well, thats fine and good... for a company that just started... but afaik, you are here for over 3 years already, you should know better. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:45:00 - [94] Originally by: Kane Rizzel CCP were desperately trying to get the issue sorted, I'm sure they're very sorry they weren't able to send you a personal update on what was happening as they were a touch busy. yeah, desperately... coz writing the same they wrote in this post, but into a INDEX.HTML and putting it online where people could see it, is soooo hard. or a blank page just showing a link to the IRC or whatever. when i pay MONEY for a online game, i expect more than just the pixels of the game, i expect customer service, otherwise i would just go back and play tetris, for free. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Madelchai Gallente Stimulus	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:47:00 - [95] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Quote: I believe there are plans to separate the forums from the server, but that's somewhere in the future. We have however learned from this and will put up a system where we can broadcast messages in similar cases as this. We of course hope we wont have to do that for quite some time, if ever. welcome to 2005 you should really start to look what other MMO companies are doing sometimes. you have several flaws here and there and if you would just take a look at others from time to time, you would have learned this lesson LONG AGO. sometimes i think CCP are sitting in some sort of bunker, cut off from the rest of the world, just sitting in their little universe not careing what happens outside there. Why should they care about what other companies do? They have the best game out there, and really do have very good communication with their members. WoW's forums for example go down every time there's a problem, and during their scheduled downtimes. CCP very often has their forums up even when they server is down, short of a major problem where everything had to come down like this one. Knowing what's going on isn't going to help the problem any. All you have to know is that there's a problem, the server is down, and they're doing everything they can to fix it. That's it. ------ Fighting is like sex. The dirtier the better.
Kane Rizzel NovaKane Incorporated Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:48:00 - [96] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: Kane Rizzel CCP were desperately trying to get the issue sorted, I'm sure they're very sorry they weren't able to send you a personal update on what was happening as they were a touch busy. yeah, desperately... coz writing the same they wrote in this post, but into a INDEX.HTML and putting it online where people could see it, is soooo hard. or a blank page just showing a link to the IRC or whatever. when i pay MONEY for a online game, i expect more than just the pixels of the game, i expect customer service, otherwise i would just go back and play tetris, for free. Don't let the EVE gate hit you on the way out. We all pay to play, you're not a special and unique snowflake. It's a game of internet spaceships, seriously dude, chill out Originally by: High Sierra note to self: dont ever say anything to anyone on the internet about anything ever again.
Cyana Fox	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:48:00 - [97] I'm glad you guys fixed the problem. (no sarcasm, purely happy ^^) BUT...I wish I could have the 9 hours back of skill training I missed...since well, I planned on the server being up. Finding out it was down, irked but its happened before, said 'ok, few hours won't hurt much' and came back for lunch (4hrs later), was still down with NO UPDATE...now very irked. Had to leave, came back..and yay its up...but still lost a good 9 hours that should have spent training. I'm not gonna be upset because the server was down, you had to do what you had to do. BUT... SKILL QUEUE SKILL QUEUE SKILL QUEUE SKILL QUEUE SKILL QUEUE SKILL QUEUE SKILL QUEUE SKILL QUEUE It would make life a lot less full of 'irks' because of whatever reason why the server has 'unexpected' downtime. Before any trolls quote this like in previous posts before, how would I know to set a LONG skill for an UNEXPECTED downtime...impossible One last time...... SKILL QUEUE

ISD Rauth Kivaro ISD STAR	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:49:00 - [98] As a security wonk in my real life: In a security breach situation, it's pretty much standard practice to shut down and say absolutely nothing until you're totally certain you have the situation in hand. Any leak of information can potentially magnify the problem. It may seem draconian but when you have as much at stake as there is here, it's logical. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website

Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:50:00 - [99] Originally by: Kane Rizzel We all pay to play, you're not a special and unique snowflake. It's a game of internet spaceships, seriously dude, chill out well, if you don't care about customer service, that's YOUR problem. i DO care. and no, it's not just a game! it's a game I PAY FOR. and as you can see in this post and on many fansites, I am not the only one ***ed at the poor communication today... snip* Please remain civil and don't resort to flaming, namecalling and profanity. -Rauth Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Madelchai Gallente Stimulus	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:50:00 - [100] Originally by: Kayna Eelai when i pay MONEY for a online game, i expect more than just the pixels of the game, i expect customer service, otherwise i would just go back and play tetris, for free. Enjoy Tetris. ------ Fighting is like sex. The dirtier the better.

Kane Rizzel NovaKane Incorporated Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:51:00 - [101] snip Not helping. -Rauth Originally by: High Sierra note to self: dont ever say anything to anyone on the internet about anything ever again.
Cenelia	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:53:00 - [102] Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Originally by: shinsushi I have this crazy idea to prevent the massive amount of whining when EvE has unscheduled downtimes. Skill Queues. I know it sound strange, bare with me though. Allow a character to toggle a secondary skill that will automatically begin training when the primary is done. This way no one could ever complain about this stuff. Train longer skills :D Knowing your skill won't finish another 24 days makes you feel comfy. train longer skills during unexpected downtime? sure, but personaly, if I could do that I'd make a killing in the lottery - alt of Mudkest
Madelchai Gallente Stimulus	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:54:00 - [103] Originally by: Kayna Eelai We all pay to play, you're not a special and unique snowflake. It's a game of internet spaceships, seriously dude, chill out well, if you don't care about customer service, that's YOUR problem. i DO care. and no, it's not just a game! it's a game I PAY FOR. and as you can see in this post and on many fansites, I am not the only one ***ed at the poor communication today... snip* Please remain civil and don't resort to flaming, namecalling and profanity. -Rauth We all pay for it. Just some of us aren't obsessed with it and freak out when there's a problem for a few hours and feel like an entitled jackass. ------ Fighting is like sex. The dirtier the better.
Ratzap Gallente Old Farts Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:54:00 - [104] While not impossible that someone outside broke in, most breaches tend to be inside jobs or social engineering attacks on inside people. Someone coming in entirely cold is not the most likely scenario but can always happen (given enough time and determination). It'll be interesting to see if there's any follow up posts explaining more clearly what/how (doubt it but meh, curious). Ratzap
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:56:00 - [105] Originally by: ISD Rauth Kivaro As a security wonk in my real life: In a security breach situation, it's pretty much standard practice to shut down and say absolutely nothing until you're totally certain you have the situation in hand. Any leak of information can potentially magnify the problem. It may seem draconian but when you have as much at stake as there is here, it's logical. 1) if you're such a security wonk, how comes your system was not secure enough? 2) I doubt that it's a "much standard practice" to shut down. it depends much on situation, what company you are and what customers you have. as we've seen in this post, there is many people they don't really give a flying crap about customer service or how many hours they were left without the service they pay for and/or without communication... but other companies might think different and prefer to stay online to give service and have a expert security team hotfixing the problem. one of my companies customer is one of spains biggest insurance firm. if they have a security breach i am pretty sure they would not dare take the system offline and have all their offices and customers without "system" or without "info". they will take the risk, keep running, their expert team "counter-hacking" and hotfixing, and afterwards they'll take all responsabilities that have to apply. be it leaked information, lost data (which due hot-backup is easy to recover anyways) and fire whoever they have to fire. so... i don't think it's a "general strategy" to turn off. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
elider	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:57:00 - [106] Originally by: Ratzap While not impossible that someone outside broke in, most breaches tend to be inside jobs or social engineering attacks on inside people. Someone coming in entirely cold is not the most likely scenario but can always happen (given enough time and determination). It'll be interesting to see if there's any follow up posts explaining more clearly what/how (doubt it but meh, curious). Ratzap As linked by anothere post on this thread: Quote <&Sharkbait> one of the db admins got hit with keylogger <&Sharkbait> used an authorized account to shift spawn tables by one row <&Sharkbait> meta 6 gear was being dropped from standard spawns of the affected npc group <&Sharkbait> maintenance pruning returned 6539 officer items on one account, so the servers were shut down, forums are integrated and are also shut down <&Sharkbait> not that long, we have full weekly backups <&Sharkbait> unfortunately tracing all damage done manually is impossible, we have no tools designed to read transactions when the db itself is skewed <&Sharkbait> yes, no billing or account status was affected, thats part of the billing dept
Treher Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:58:00 - [107] I signed on 2 minutes before to switch a finishing skill. I looked again at eve and saw the message about the emergency shutdown. I smashed and smashed to no avail onto a long skill, but it didn't switch. Nearly half a day down the drain. At least I can say that I was one of the few people that experienced maximum skill loss from the outage. To the non-empathetic tards posting "who cares" jabs about people that lost skill time, put down the cheese curls and find a woman. ______________________________________________________ I forget which station container has my memory implants.

ISD Rauth Kivaro ISD STAR	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:59:00 - [108] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: ISD Rauth Kivaro As a security wonk in my real life: In a security breach situation, it's pretty much standard practice to shut down and say absolutely nothing until you're totally certain you have the situation in hand. Any leak of information can potentially magnify the problem. It may seem draconian but when you have as much at stake as there is here, it's logical. 1) if you're such a security wonk, how comes your system was not secure enough? I don't speak for CCP, I'm a volunteer and don't have any more information than you do. It's not my system, it's CCP's and I have no insight into how it works. I was speaking in general terms. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website

K Kinnison Gallente Galactic Patrol Industries	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:05:00 - [109] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Kayna Eelai there is a difference between updates every 15 minutes and no info at all in over 6 hours. Unfortunately with everything down I had to sit in IRC and ask people to post on any fansites and corp or alliance sites they could. But as I posted above we have learned from this and we'll put in some sort of system that will let us post official news somewhere in case anything like this happens again. Of course, we hope we won't ever have to use that kind of system. Out of interest, which IRC channel is that you were on? I'd like to check that out if something like this happens again. Cheers, K K.
Vladimir Ilych Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:05:00 - [110] from our own alliance thread on reasons for TQ shutdown CCP ran out of donuts. Nearest Krispy Kreme outlet is mainland UK. Server will reactivate once Oveur returns with the goods... Good a reason as any...

Kimiko Kurosawa The Krugerrand Groupies	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:05:00 - [111] Edited by: Kimiko Kurosawa on 20/10/2007 00:05:29 Kudos CCP for getting it sorted. And to Ranty McRant (you know who you are): Do you live in the real world? Or in some fluffy la la land where everything works 100% of the time. I pay for the police force, do they catch 100% of criminals. Do trains run 100% on time everyday. Does your PC never have a fault? All these are services you've paid MONEY for and yet they don't work all the time. Get over yourself. CCP have said why they couldn't post any info. What more do you want? Blood? And before you come back with a capitalised rant, of course I care about customer service, but I live in the real world where **** sometimes happens and you just have to put up with it. Edit: typo
Xoria Krint The Movement	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:05:00 - [112] I was just worried about that rollback :) I understand your actions CCP and im happy you had a good explanation :) <3 - My Movies Hijack and die
Razer Morphis Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:06:00 - [113] 2 cents from someone working in security: Security breaches are best taken care of... when they are non-existent. It appears you should focus on more security before it happens, instead of damage control for the brown nosed. ----------------------
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:09:00 - [114] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Quote: I believe there are plans to separate the forums from the server, but that's somewhere in the future. We have however learned from this and will put up a system where we can broadcast messages in similar cases as this. We of course hope we wont have to do that for quite some time, if ever. welcome to 2005 you should really start to look what other MMO companies are doing sometimes. you have several flaws here and there and if you would just take a look at others from time to time, you would have learned this lesson LONG AGO. sometimes i think CCP are sitting in some sort of bunker, cut off from the rest of the world, just sitting in their little universe not careing what happens outside there. They're not in a bunker, they just don't have the non-live development environment that the other MMO companies can take advantage of. The new MMO's coming out now will have had the advantage of seeing what happened with Eve, and identifying those mistakes early. Yes, CCP should have identified them too, and by and large has. The difference is that these new MMO companies have the luxury of designing better systems from scratch. CCP have to come up with a way of transitioning from their existing systems to better ones without unacceptably large breaks in service, or breaking the bank in terms of hardware changes and staffing. And then there's prioritization. Frankly, I would put server optimizations, the new graphics engine that actually realises GPU's beyond the Gforce2 actually exist, fixing drone AI, and all sorts of other things way ahead of stopping the forums going down occasionally when the game server goes down. Originally by: Kayna Eelai yeah, desperately... coz writing the same they wrote in this post, but into a INDEX.HTML and putting it online where people could see it, is soooo hard. Where exactly are they going to host this? On the web server that is potentially part of the security breach? Yeah, real smart that. On some other hosting space they pull up at short notice? Good luck getting the DNS change propagated across the whole net before the system comes back up and you have to change it back again. When you're dealing with a security breach on your business-critical systems, you shut it down, and you don't bring any part back up until you're sure you know that bit is safe. Customer communication comes a distant second to protecting critical systems. Originally by: Kayna Eelai when i pay MONEY for a online game, i expect more than just the pixels of the game, i expect customer service, otherwise i would just go back and play tetris, for free. Of course you should expect customer service. The issue is around what level of customer service you should expect. And as with all things, that is directly proportional to the amount you're willing to pay. You do not pay nearly enough to get the guaranteed response times and backup communication channels that you are demanding. It's the difference between a Consumer and an Enterprise product. You want to pay the current sub rate? Get used to less than perfect communication during a crisis. You want them to treat you like royalty? Offer to pay ú200 a month sub. Welcome to the world, where you get exactly what you pay for. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:10:00 - [115] Originally by: Kayna Eelai one of my companies customer is one of spains biggest insurance firm. if they have a security breach i am pretty sure they would not dare take the system offline and have all their offices and customers without "system" or without "info". they will take the risk, keep running, their expert team "counter-hacking" and hotfixing, and afterwards they'll take all responsabilities that have to apply. be it leaked information, lost data (which due hot-backup is easy to recover anyways) and fire whoever they have to fire. so... i don't think it's a "general strategy" to turn off. As above, compare what you're paying for Eve, to what that insurance firm is paying for your company's services. The consequences of shutdown are also vastly different. Your company shuts down, that entire insurance firm is out of action across an entire country. CCP shut down TQ, and some people can't play internet spaceships for a bit. Hopefully you have enough perspective to see the difference in severity there, and why the approach will be different. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Madelchai Gallente Stimulus	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:11:00 - [116] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: ISD Rauth Kivaro As a security wonk in my real life: In a security breach situation, it's pretty much standard practice to shut down and say absolutely nothing until you're totally certain you have the situation in hand. Any leak of information can potentially magnify the problem. It may seem draconian but when you have as much at stake as there is here, it's logical. 1) if you're such a security wonk, how comes your system was not secure enough? 2) I doubt that it's a "much standard practice" to shut down. it depends much on situation, what company you are and what customers you have. as we've seen in this post, there is many people they don't really give a flying crap about customer service or how many hours they were left without the service they pay for and/or without communication... but other companies might think different and prefer to stay online to give service and have a expert security team hotfixing the problem. one of my companies customer is one of spains biggest insurance firm. if they have a security breach i am pretty sure they would not dare take the system offline and have all their offices and customers without "system" or without "info". they will take the risk, keep running, their expert team "counter-hacking" and hotfixing, and afterwards they'll take all responsabilities that have to apply. be it leaked information, lost data (which due hot-backup is easy to recover anyways) and fire whoever they have to fire. so... i don't think it's a "general strategy" to turn off. If you're so unsatisfied with their service, I'm sure we can look foward to you cancelling your account then? ------ Fighting is like sex. The dirtier the better.
Fzoul KAOS. KA0S Theory	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:12:00 - [117] Originally by: elider CCP you want me to belive that: -An EVE-Online player connects from his little laptop and hacks your firewall -Then he magically knows the internal structure of your networks and finds the database server -Then because he is such a genius , he is able to hack the security of the database server too... - Then he is able to figure out in some minutes the structure of such a complex database so he finds his wallet entry and puts there some ISK Just LOL!!! I bet most of your programmers are not able to do that from his desk in CCP office and you want us to belive someone did that from home without any knowledge of internal network arhitecture or database structure? One that really belives this .....must have seen too many bad Hollywood movies Um... If you are seriously interested in learning about this, I would highly recommend attending a series of courses on InfoSec starting with this one. If you're just being an ass with no knowledge whatsoever, then just sit through this class and try not to ask questions that would get you mocked. I would highly recommend finding a session taught by Ed Skoudis, if you can.
Madelchai Gallente Stimulus	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:14:00 - [118] Originally by: Treher To the non-empathetic tards posting "who cares" jabs about people that lost skill time, put down the cheese curls and find a woman. lulz? I lost about 10 hours of training time due to me not being able to log on when I wanted to change my short skill. I also happen to be one who says "Who cares?" It's a game. Get over it. People who are all worked up about it are the ones who should put down the cheese curls and find a vixen. Point that advice at yourself there. ------ Fighting is like sex. The dirtier the better.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:17:00 - [119] I say give em a break. Tis only a game. SKUNK
Phantom Slave	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:18:00 - [120] I'm very happy the server is back up, I'm even in doing missions and stuff. For those people complaining about not getting information, we're paying customers too, and I'm not sure if you noticed but in the EULA it says that there's no guarantee the servers are going to be up 23/7 (scheduled downtime excluded). Deal with it. The rest of us have. For those that lost skill points, that sucks horribly, and really proves that there needs to be some type of skill queue to ensure that problems like this don't happen again. Unless of course, your second skill finishes during an unexpected downtime, but at least it wasn't totally wasted. And those that are complaining about the entire server being shut down because of a security breach, you're kidding right? Somebody broke into the database and possibly changed some stuff (not sure if there was stuff changed or not). 'Hotfix it!' I hear you say, and my answer is NO! Shutting down the server was the best damn thing they could have done. Why? Because there was a security breach, and they didn't know how far it had spread. Luckily they caught it and it was just in the server database. It could have spread to billing, or who knows where else. Would you really want the servers to stay online while somebody was peeping through your credit card info, just so you can play a little longer? Hell no. /end rant



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