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Goons: a field study in community relations

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Internet Online Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:10:00 - [31] Originally by: Scavok Most of the SA community also laughs at anime nerds, druggies, and gun nuts, but there are popular forums dedicated to each of those on SA. So what's your point again? Don't forget WoW goons.
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:16:00 - [32] gb2gbs
Natas Dog GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:19:00 - [33] Originally by: Vile rat Originally by: Roger Albany The problem for Goons is that they now themsleves are one of the old buys clubs. The goons that mostly raided the ISS constellations in Estoteria were not noobs in tech 1 ships - they were experienced players all in expensive tech 2 HAC's and recons. So I think that Goons at some point will have problems recruiting new members, because somehow I do not see the "old" goon players setting up structures that help new players over the entry barriers. For me it is just a matter of time before we see GOON 2.0 - a new corp that that hates goons and all the other "old boys" just the same and which will be able to recruit the noobs much easier. And lets face it - we need new players in EVE - bot the game and the alliances needs more players all the time to replace older players moving on to other games. laughin at dis. laughin wit dis guy. _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last is usually the one the joke was about.
Psilocin Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:19:00 - [34] Edited by: Psilocin on 29/10/2007 13:20:54 Originally by: Scavok Edited by: Scavok on 29/10/2007 13:07:33 Originally by: Khorian Originally by: WowZilla Goons are changing the community landscape of Eve from that stuffy officers club into something better. I applaud them for that, and they will burn me for it too. Now how cool is that? The funny thing is that the SA community as a whole would probably laugh at the EvE Goons for being nerds in a internet spaceships game. Also, while I agree that E-Honor is a little bit over the top, respect is very important in MMOs. While most alliances do what they do to gain recognition by the community, goons just want to play wild sow. If they ever become a major player on their own I doubt it will be for the better of EvE tbh. Most of the SA community also laughs at anime nerds, druggies, and gun nuts, but there are popular forums dedicated to each of those on SA. So what's your point again? TCC Represent! \o/ Also I can make a much shorter explanation to what Goons really are: Buttes and lols. FOFOFOOOOO!
Cvuos GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:21:00 - [35] We've definitely changed. From Dec 1st Goonswarm will look very different. We are setting up fleet squadrons with dedicated roles and a participation incentive system (killpoints, dotpoints, reimbursement etc) to cull freeloaders. The most controversial change is probably the 15 mill SP minimum to join Goonfleet. This isn't because we don't appreciate newbies anymore, we simply don't need them. The sub-fleet corps will have the opportunity to recruit based on their own standards but in turn they will have common goals which they have to achieve in order to remain in the alliance. We will still keep our good spirits and cameraderie, but the force projection on the battlefield will be something entirely different.
Ektor GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:24:00 - [36] Originally by: Roger Albany The problem for Goons is that they now themsleves are one of the old buys clubs. The goons that mostly raided the ISS constellations in Estoteria were not noobs in tech 1 ships - they were experienced players all in expensive tech 2 HAC's and recons. So I think that Goons at some point will have problems recruiting new members, because somehow I do not see the "old" goon players setting up structures that help new players over the entry barriers. For me it is just a matter of time before we see GOON 2.0 - a new corp that that hates goons and all the other "old boys" just the same and which will be able to recruit the noobs much easier. And lets face it - we need new players in EVE - bot the game and the alliances needs more players all the time to replace older players moving on to other games. I do not know a lot of alliance where a noob can become FC and lead a pos shooting op. With goons, you can, everyone who apply today will be able to lead an op to destroy your pos tomorrow. Thanks to Bob and their pet to give to us a lot of training grounds to our new players, they appreciate.
Tevlent GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:25:00 - [37] Originally by: Cvuos We've definitely changed. From Dec 1st Goonswarm will look very different. We are setting up fleet squadrons with dedicated roles and a participation incentive system (killpoints, dotpoints, reimbursement etc) to cull freeloaders. The most controversial change is probably the 15 mill SP minimum to join Goonfleet. This isn't because we don't appreciate newbies anymore, we simply don't need them. The sub-fleet corps will have the opportunity to recruit based on their own standards but in turn they will have common goals which they have to achieve in order to remain in the alliance. We will still keep our good spirits and cameraderie, but the force projection on the battlefield will be something entirely different. Crap, I only have 1mil SP... I guess that means I'm out
Rbel Ion	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:26:00 - [38] Originally by: Illaria Edited by: Illaria on 29/10/2007 11:20:51 Goons see themselves, as well as Red Alliance, as victims of the EVE community. Shunned, harassed, hunted to the brink of extinction, they don't feel like paying respect to enemies, that have never granted it themselves. Yes they are pretty emo and self pitying. Quote: But taking a look at the EVE community is also worthwhile: EVE is a game with huge barriers to entry. It has a very unfriendly newbie experience, and due to the "real time skill system" an almost impossible hurdle to catch up for new players. You're right EVE has a high learning curve. However to say catching up is impossible is a joke. I go pirating with a sub 5m SP alt all the time and most of what I kill is other pirates flying all sorts of ships. The vast majority of skill in pvp in EVE is based on knowledge and judgement of what you can kill and under what circumstances. Having high SP merely broadens what you can fly and what you can kill. But in certain circumstances you can kill pretty much anything with anything. eg. taranis killing a ratting bs set up with long range guns and no web. Quote: EVE is not overly complicated. Within two months you basically know 95% of all things there are to know about this game No in two months of being brand new to the game you won't even know all the basics. Unless someone has been actively teaching you. Quote: yet there's the overwhelming attitude of the "old community" that newbies shouldn't be in 0.0. Who is this much referenced 'old community' I hear so much of? Can we have a list? Where is this 'overwhelming attitude'? The vast majority of alliances have plenty of low SP players. Some aren't prepared to teach you the basics of EVE because it's boring and do want some proof of knowledge or activity, but plenty will teach as well. The newbie institutions like EVE Uni are popular, liked, and supported by pretty much all current 0.0 alliances. Just because Goons have newbies, and some people hate Goons, does not = people hate newbies. Quote: You should earn the right of being in 0.0 by first spending months in Empire doing mind numbing mission running, or pointless low sec ganking before you are experienced enough to set a foot in 0.0. This is bull**** and the Goons called the community on it, and the old boys decided to punish the newbies for their insolence. Shame this attitude is pure invented fantasy. Much like "EVE IS RACIST AGAINST RUSSIANS/FRENCH" what a joke.
Cvuos GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:26:00 - [39] Originally by: Tevlent Crap, I only have 1mil SP... I guess that means I'm out Let's keep the policy discussions to our own forums m'kay? Anyone already in Goonswarm will remain there of course.
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:30:00 - [40] Originally by: Rbel Ion Quote: EVE is not overly complicated. Within two months you basically know 95% of all things there are to know about this game No in two months of being brand new to the game you won't even know all the basics. Unless someone has been actively teaching you. this is where goons come in
Natas Dog GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:31:00 - [41] Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: Tevlent Crap, I only have 1mil SP... I guess that means I'm out Let's keep the policy discussions to our own forums m'kay? Anyone already in Goonswarm will remain there of course. I heard if you open a ticket in Solo's new ticketing system you can get a waiver depending on your playtime and activity on the forums. _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last is usually the one the joke was about.
Redbad Minmatar Mean Corp	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:31:00 - [42] Originally by: Cvuos We've definitely changed. From Dec 1st Goonswarm will look very different. We are setting up fleet squadrons with dedicated roles and a participation incentive system (killpoints, dotpoints, reimbursement etc) to cull freeloaders. The most controversial change is probably the 15 mill SP minimum to join Goonfleet. This isn't because we don't appreciate newbies anymore, we simply don't need them. The sub-fleet corps will have the opportunity to recruit based on their own standards but in turn they will have common goals which they have to achieve in order to remain in the alliance. We will still keep our good spirits and cameraderie, but the force projection on the battlefield will be something entirely different. OMG, BoB spies have taken over Goonfleet and changed Goonfleet policy into their own elitist views of membership. Now this is news. Goonfleet will become the same as BoB. BoB wins the war! Well played, didn't see that coming.
Rbel Ion	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:33:00 - [43] Originally by: Nlewis Originally by: Rbel Ion Quote: EVE is not overly complicated. Within two months you basically know 95% of all things there are to know about this game No in two months of being brand new to the game you won't even know all the basics. Unless someone has been actively teaching you. this is where goons come in Umm yeah so. Lot's of alliances or corps within alliances also recruit and teach newbies.
Cringeley GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Rbel Ion Umm yeah so. Lot's of alliances or corps within alliances also recruit and teach newbies. No they don't.
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:39:00 - [45] Originally by: Cringeley Originally by: Rbel Ion Umm yeah so. Lot's of alliances or corps within alliances also recruit and teach newbies. No they don't. especially not ones engaged in the biggest war in the history of eve
Impretinent GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:39:00 - [46] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: WowZilla Goons are changing the community landscape of Eve from that stuffy officers club into something better. I applaud them for that, and they will burn me for it too. Now how cool is that? The funny thing is that the SA community as a whole would probably laugh at the EvE Goons for being nerds in a internet spaceships game. Also, while I agree that E-Honor is a little bit over the top, respect is very important in MMOs. While most alliances do what they do to gain recognition by the community, goons just want to play wild sow. If they ever become a major player on their own I doubt it will be for the better of EvE tbh. Everyone who heard the story of how Remedial robbed us and then had his dilznick posted all over the internet had a pretty good laugh.
Natas Dog GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:39:00 - [47] Originally by: Rbel Ion Umm yeah so. Lot's of alliances or corps within alliances also recruit and teach newbies. Space holding 0.0 alliances? If there are any besides goons, you can probably count them all on one hand. No offense, but teaching newbies how to run missions in empire is a far cry from learning the basic survival skills needed to thrive in 0.0. _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last is usually the one the joke was about.
Rbel Ion	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:42:00 - [48] Edited by: Rbel Ion on 29/10/2007 13:42:46 Originally by: Cringeley Originally by: Rbel Ion Umm yeah so. Lot's of alliances or corps within alliances also recruit and teach newbies. No they don't. Yeah, they do. It isn't difficult at all to get into 90% of territory holding alliances (certainly the large ones) with a few months old character if you can somehow show you've an interest in pvp and learning to pvp. Just posting a few piracy attempt killmails to a public killboard, and a nicely written eve mail is normally enough. Most non a**hole corps will offer plenty of advice on fittings and general play tips in corp chat and on corp forums. There's also tons of corps who specifically cater, recruit or go out their way to teach newbies. Have you ever actually been in alliance besides Goonswarm?
Tevlent GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:47:00 - [49] Originally by: Rbel Ion Edited by: Rbel Ion on 29/10/2007 13:42:46 Originally by: Cringeley Originally by: Rbel Ion Umm yeah so. Lot's of alliances or corps within alliances also recruit and teach newbies. No they don't. Yeah, they do. It isn't difficult at all to get into 90% of territory holding alliances (certainly the large ones) with a few months old character if you can somehow show you've an interest in pvp and learning to pvp. Just posting a few piracy attempt killmails to a public killboard, and a nicely written eve mail is normally enough. Most non ahole corps will offer plenty of advice on fittings and general play tips in corp chat and on corp forums. There's also tons of corps who specifically cater, recruit or go out their way to teach newbies. Have you ever actually been in alliance besides Goonswarm? Ummm a few piracy killmails? I dont think you understand the term "noob". The "noobs" we recruit dont know what the **. They dont even know how read the star map, let alone able to get some "piracy kills". The people we rectriut are literally days old, just getting into the game.
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:48:00 - [50] i thought the OP's analysis was pretty accurate overall tbh
Vile rat GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:49:00 - [51] Originally by: Rbel Ion Edited by: Rbel Ion on 29/10/2007 13:42:46 Originally by: Cringeley Originally by: Rbel Ion Umm yeah so. Lot's of alliances or corps within alliances also recruit and teach newbies. No they don't. Yeah, they do. It isn't difficult at all to get into 90% of territory holding alliances (certainly the large ones) with a few months old character if you can somehow show you've an interest in pvp and learning to pvp. Just posting a few piracy attempt killmails to a public killboard, and a nicely written eve mail is normally enough. Most non a**hole corps will offer plenty of advice on fittings and general play tips in corp chat and on corp forums. There's also tons of corps who specifically cater, recruit or go out their way to teach newbies. Have you ever actually been in alliance besides Goonswarm? Have you ever been in an alliance at all? How about a corp? Hard to tell when you are not showing your corp/alliance.
Natas Dog GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:51:00 - [52] Originally by: Vile rat Originally by: Rbel Ion Edited by: Rbel Ion on 29/10/2007 13:42:46 Originally by: Cringeley Originally by: Rbel Ion Umm yeah so. Lot's of alliances or corps within alliances also recruit and teach newbies. No they don't. Yeah, they do. It isn't difficult at all to get into 90% of territory holding alliances (certainly the large ones) with a few months old character if you can somehow show you've an interest in pvp and learning to pvp. Just posting a few piracy attempt killmails to a public killboard, and a nicely written eve mail is normally enough. Most non ahole corps will offer plenty of advice on fittings and general play tips in corp chat and on corp forums. There's also tons of corps who specifically cater, recruit or go out their way to teach newbies. Have you ever actually been in alliance besides Goonswarm? Have you ever been in an alliance at all? How about a corp? Hard to tell when you are not showing your corp/alliance. He's proving that he's a newbie and doesn't know what the ** when it comes to forum settings, duh. _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last is usually the one the joke was about.
Benvolio GrrrKrishnakk GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:55:00 - [53] Originally by: Cvuos m'kay? Die. ____
Vile rat GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:58:00 - [54] Originally by: Natas Dog He's proving that he's a newbie and doesn't know what the **** when it comes to forum settings, duh. I actually remember my first day in the game. I remember I was in S-U down in Syndicate in a Punisher being told how to mine crokite and run from rats as they spawned (3 punishers later that is). I remember being told to form up on the gate because some guys in HAC's were on the way and I remember they were part of Peoples front of judea (I think they were in Phoenix alliance at the time) and when they jumped in we had 50 or so people hanging out at the gate but we only got one of them. I remember warp scrambling the gate and being yelled at by somebody but having fun. Then one of our own guys blew me up but I got another free frigate and went back to mining crokite. I miss those days :(
Rbel Ion	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:02:00 - [55] Originally by: Tevlent Edited by: Tevlent on 29/10/2007 13:48:41 Originally by: Rbel Ion Edited by: Rbel Ion on 29/10/2007 13:42:46 Originally by: Cringeley Originally by: Rbel Ion Umm yeah so. Lot's of alliances or corps within alliances also recruit and teach newbies. No they don't. Yeah, they do. It isn't difficult at all to get into 90% of territory holding alliances (certainly the large ones) with a few months old character if you can somehow show you've an interest in pvp and learning to pvp. Just posting a few piracy attempt killmails to a public killboard, and a nicely written eve mail is normally enough. Most non ahole corps will offer plenty of advice on fittings and general play tips in corp chat and on corp forums. There's also tons of corps who specifically cater, recruit or go out their way to teach newbies. Have you ever actually been in alliance besides Goonswarm? Ummm a few piracy killmails? I dont think you understand the term "noob". The "noobs" we recruit dont know what the **. They dont even know how to read the star map, let alone able to get some "piracy kills". The people we rectriut are literally days old, just getting into the game. Give me a name of 5 corps who will actively recruit people like that en mass. Calm down, I didn't want to break your self important circle jerk about how totally awesome and unique Goonswarm is with newbies. Most people are pretty happy to play the game for a weeks without being in a corp or alliance FYI (if they even know what corps and alliances are). The fact GS recruits people from SA who have already been informed of the basic premise of EVE and told tales of alliance warfare and want to jump straight into that is irrelevent. Goonswarm might be the only alliance that goes out of it's way to have so much infrastructure to teach newbies (for it's own ends...), but if you ever actually join a semi-decent corp & alliance outside of Goonswarm you will find the majority of people playing the game love helping new players and are all too willing to provide advice. Most alliances are not impermeable for newbies. The point is: the self-aggrandizing propaganda you guys spew about some bizzare attitude that apparantly the majority of people who play this space interner video game have some kind of conspiracy hatred of newbies and want to stop them playing the game is comedy. There are huge entire alliances out there full of new players. IAC, FREGE, BRUCE, EVE-U, all sorts of drone region alliances (who hilariously are apparantly you're next target after BoB, way to go helping the newbs :D), all sorts of small northern nap monkey alliances. So in summary: Yes Goonswarm for their own purposes are very good at teaching people from their $10 forum posting community how to play eve. But EVE as a whole is full of newbie friendly or composed entities, often occupying 0.0 space. And like I said, it is not diffucult at all, if you've been playing for even a little while to get into seasoned, mid-tier alliances.
Natas Dog GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:03:00 - [56] Originally by: Vile rat I actually remember my first day in the game. I remember I was in S-U down in Syndicate in a Punisher being told how to mine crokite and run from rats as they spawned (3 punishers later that is). I remember being told to form up on the gate because some guys in HAC's were on the way and I remember they were part of Peoples front of judea (I think they were in Phoenix alliance at the time) and when they jumped in we had 50 or so people hanging out at the gate but we only got one of them. I remember warp scrambling the gate and being yelled at by somebody but having fun. Then one of our own guys blew me up but I got another free frigate and went back to mining crokite. I miss those days :( The sad part is, once those days are gone you can't get them back. Sure you can reroll another newbie toon, but you'll won't be fitting artillery blasters on your rifters or fitting out ratting Lavens. Ok, maybe the Laven part still works. _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last is usually the one the joke was about.
Rbel Ion	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:05:00 - [57] Originally by: Vile rat Have you ever been in an alliance at all? How about a corp? Hard to tell when you are not showing your corp/alliance. No I'm a complete newb, well spotted. if only GS would recruit me and teach me the joys of eve :sigh: self mastabatory story about GS newbies tackling dreads goes here
Natas Dog GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:06:00 - [58] Originally by: Rbel Ion Calm down, I didn't want to break your self important circle jerk about how totally awesome and unique Goonswarm is with newbies. Most people are pretty happy to play the game for a weeks without being in a corp or alliance FYI (if they even know what corps and alliances are). The fact GS recruits people from SA who have already been informed of the basic premise of EVE and told tales of alliance warfare and want to jump straight into that is irrelevent. Goonswarm might be the only alliance that goes out of it's way to have so much infrastructure to teach newbies (for it's own ends...), but if you ever actually join a semi-decent corp & alliance outside of Goonswarm you will find the majority of people playing the game love helping new players and are all too willing to provide advice. Most alliances are not impermeable for newbies. The point is: the self-aggrandizing propaganda you guys spew about some bizzare attitude that apparantly the majority of people who play this space interner video game have some kind of conspiracy hatred of newbies and want to stop them playing the game is comedy. There are huge entire alliances out there full of new players. IAC, FREGE, BRUCE, EVE-U, all sorts of drone region alliances (who hilariously are apparantly you're next target after BoB, way to go helping the newbs :D), all sorts of small northern nap monkey alliances. So in summary: Yes Goonswarm for their own purposes are very good at teaching people from their $10 forum posting community how to play eve. But EVE as a whole is full of newbie friendly or composed entities, often occupying 0.0 space. And like I said, it is not diffucult at all, if you've been playing for even a little while to get into seasoned, mid-tier alliances. Man, you really don't 'get' goons. _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last is usually the one the joke was about.
Vile rat GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:06:00 - [59] Originally by: Natas Dog The sad part is, once those days are gone you can't get them back. Sure you can reroll another newbie toon, but you'll won't be fitting artillery blasters on your rifters or fitting out ratting Lavens. Ok, maybe the Laven part still works. Kinda like the first time you play baldurs gate 2.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:07:00 - [60] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: WowZilla Goons are changing the community landscape of Eve from that stuffy officers club into something better. I applaud them for that, and they will burn me for it too. Now how cool is that? The funny thing is that the SA community as a whole would probably laugh at the EvE Goons for being nerds in a internet spaceships game. Also, while I agree that E-Honor is a little bit over the top, respect is very important in MMOs. While most alliances do what they do to gain recognition by the community, goons just want to play wild sow. If they ever become a major player on their own I doubt it will be for the better of EvE tbh. ahahahahah

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