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Goons: a field study in community relations

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Vile rat GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:08:00 - [61] Originally by: Rbel Ion Originally by: Vile rat Have you ever been in an alliance at all? How about a corp? Hard to tell when you are not showing your corp/alliance. No I'm a complete newb, well spotted. if only GS would recruit me and teach me the joys of eve :sigh: self mastabatory story about GS newbies tackling dreads goes here Well friend you sorta have to have your corp/alliance checked to post in this forum.
Rbel Ion	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:08:00 - [62] Edited by: Rbel Ion on 29/10/2007 14:09:22 Originally by: Vile rat Originally by: Rbel Ion Originally by: Vile rat Have you ever been in an alliance at all? How about a corp? Hard to tell when you are not showing your corp/alliance. No I'm a complete newb, well spotted. if only GS would recruit me and teach me the joys of eve :sigh: self mastabatory story about GS newbies tackling dreads goes here Well friend you sorta have to have your corp/alliance checked to post in this forum. You should petition it. Originally by: Natas Dog Man, you really don't 'get' goons. Sure I do. I read the SA forums making fun of Goonswarm all the time in YCS.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:09:00 - [63] Edited by: The Mittani on 29/10/2007 14:09:46 ^^^^ you read YCS get out (of life) Originally by: Roger Albany The problem for Goons is that they now themsleves are one of the old buys clubs. The goons that mostly raided the ISS constellations in Estoteria were not noobs in tech 1 ships - they were experienced players all in expensive tech 2 HAC's and recons. So I think that Goons at some point will have problems recruiting new members, because somehow I do not see the "old" goon players setting up structures that help new players over the entry barriers. For me it is just a matter of time before we see GOON 2.0 - a new corp that that hates goons and all the other "old boys" just the same and which will be able to recruit the noobs much easier. And lets face it - we need new players in EVE - bot the game and the alliances needs more players all the time to replace older players moving on to other games. yeah these newbie drives have never been a big deal we're gonna abandon them also: lookit dat iss ticker
Tevlent GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:09:00 - [64] Originally by: Rbel Ion Originally by: Natas Dog Man, you really don't 'get' goons. Sure I do. I read the SA forums making fun of Goonswarm all the time in YCS. I really don't think you 'get' goons.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:11:00 - [65] Originally by: Rbel Ion Calm down, I didn't want to break your self important circle jerk about how totally awesome and unique Goonswarm is with newbies. Most people are pretty happy to play the game for a weeks without being in a corp or alliance FYI (if they even know what corps and alliances are). The fact GS recruits people from SA who have already been informed of the basic premise of EVE and told tales of alliance warfare and want to jump straight into that is irrelevent. Goonswarm might be the only alliance that goes out of it's way to have so much infrastructure to teach newbies (for it's own ends...), but if you ever actually join a semi-decent corp & alliance outside of Goonswarm you will find the majority of people playing the game love helping new players and are all too willing to provide advice. Most alliances are not impermeable for newbies. The point is: the self-aggrandizing propaganda you guys spew about some bizzare attitude that apparantly the majority of people who play this space interner video game have some kind of conspiracy hatred of newbies and want to stop them playing the game is comedy. There are huge entire alliances out there full of new players. IAC, FREGE, BRUCE, EVE-U, all sorts of drone region alliances (who hilariously are apparantly you're next target after BoB, way to go helping the newbs :D), all sorts of small northern nap monkey alliances. So in summary: Yes Goonswarm for their own purposes are very good at teaching people from their $10 forum posting community how to play eve. But EVE as a whole is full of newbie friendly or composed entities, often occupying 0.0 space. And like I said, it is not diffucult at all, if you've been playing for even a little while to get into seasoned, mid-tier alliances. lookit all those words
Rbel Ion	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:12:00 - [66] Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 29/10/2007 14:09:46 ^^^^ you read YCS get out (of life) Go spend more hours running your eve-wide internet spying network and avoiding your wife hhahahahaha
Natas Dog GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:12:00 - [67] Edited by: Natas Dog on 29/10/2007 14:12:06 Originally by: Tevlent Originally by: Rbel Ion Originally by: Natas Dog Man, you really don't 'get' goons. Sure I do. I read the SA forums making fun of Goonswarm all the time in YCS. I really don't think you 'get' goons. I don't think you 'get' the quote feature Edit: Booya _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last is usually the one the joke was about.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:14:00 - [68] Originally by: Rbel Ion Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 29/10/2007 14:09:46 ^^^^ you read YCS get out (of life) Go spend more hours running your eve-wide internet spying network and avoiding your wife hhahahahaha MY WIFE
Tevlent GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:15:00 - [69] Originally by: Natas Dog I don't think you 'get' the quote feature Edit: Booya Natas, it wasnt me....it was the guy without corp/alliance showing. I swear! Please don't restrict my veldspar mining, it's the only way I can afford muh tier 2 frigates.
CobraBytez GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:19:00 - [70] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: WowZilla Goons are changing the community landscape of Eve from that stuffy officers club into something better. I applaud them for that, and they will burn me for it too. Now how cool is that? The funny thing is that the SA community as a whole would probably laugh at the EvE Goons for being nerds in a internet spaceships game. Also, while I agree that E-Honor is a little bit over the top, respect is very important in MMOs. While most alliances do what they do to gain recognition by the community, goons just want to play wild sow. If they ever become a major player on their own I doubt it will be for the better of EvE tbh. Goons are very respectful. I can't remember the last time we posted a thread without someone giving our opponents "mad props."
Frederick Skinner GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:19:00 - [71] Edited by: Frederick Skinner on 29/10/2007 14:20:28 Originally by: Rbel Ion I read the SA forums making fun of Goonswarm all the time in YCS. Why don't you tell the fine folks there that you post here. I'm sure they would be pleased to know that. Filter us out all you want, it still won't change the truth.
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:20:00 - [72] who reads ycs
Rbel Ion	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:21:00 - [73] No not really. I just wanted to rub home that you're a laughing stock on somethingawful.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:22:00 - [74] Originally by: Rbel Ion No not really. I just wanted to rub home that you're a laughing stock on somethingawful. I don't think you 'get' somethingawful.com.
Maxim Powers GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:23:00 - [75] Originally by: Rbel Ion No not really. I just wanted to rub home that you're a laughing stock on somethingawful. We're a laughing stock on www.goonfleet.com
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:23:00 - [76] Originally by: Maxim Powers Originally by: Rbel Ion No not really. I just wanted to rub home that you're a laughing stock on somethingawful. We're a laughing stock on www.goonfleet.com its you you're the laughtingstock
Rbel Ion	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:24:00 - [77] Edited by: Rbel Ion on 29/10/2007 14:25:17 I don't think you 'get' somethingawful. Can Mawg please read out another one of the cringe worthy speeches you write mittani, then try and sue somethingawful again when they make fun of it. thx.
CobraBytez GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:26:00 - [78] Originally by: The Mittani Originally by: Maxim Powers Originally by: Rbel Ion No not really. I just wanted to rub home that you're a laughing stock on somethingawful. We're a laughing stock on www.goonfleet.com its you you're the laughtingstock what about me
Maxim Powers GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:28:00 - [79] Edited by: Maxim Powers on 29/10/2007 14:28:08 Originally by: Rbel Ion Yeah, they do. It isn't difficult at all to get into 90% of territory holding alliances (certainly the large ones) with a few months old character if you can somehow show you've an interest in pvp and learning to pvp. I'm a few months old right now, are you saying I should still be running around in Empire thinking of looking for an alliance instead of, well, doing all kinds of things out in 0.0? Thanks for the tip. Originally by: The Mittani Originally by: Maxim Powers Originally by: Rbel Ion No not really. I just wanted to rub home that you're a laughing stock on somethingawful. We're a laughing stock on www.goonfleet.com its you you're the laughtingstock MLMP Originally by: Rbel Ion Edited by: Rbel Ion on 29/10/2007 14:25:17 I don't think you 'get' somethingawful. Can Mawg please read out another one of the cringe worthy speeches you write mittani, then try and sue somethingawful again when they make fun of it. thx. Quoting really isn't your thing.
Lee Bian Amarryan Nations GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:29:00 - [80] Originally by: Rbel Ion No not really. I just wanted to rub home that you're a laughing stock on somethingawful. everything is the laughing stock of somethingawful, which is kind of the point
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:29:00 - [81] I am beginning to think even the goons don't "get" the goons. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
WowZilla The Leeroy Jenkins Project	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:29:00 - [82] Originally by: Rbel Ion No not really. I just wanted to rub home that you're a laughing stock on somethingawful. Goons wont care. But for some reason you do? ____________________ I am the worst poster
Rbel Ion	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:29:00 - [83] Edited by: Rbel Ion on 29/10/2007 14:29:26 Originally by: Maxim Powers I'm a few months old right now, are you saying I should still be running around in Empire thinking of looking for an alliance instead of, well, doing all kinds of things out in 0.0? Thanks for the tip. Yeah that is exactly what I'm saying. You are brilliant.
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:31:00 - [84] this thread
Maxim Powers GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:31:00 - [85] Originally by: Rbel Ion Edited by: Rbel Ion on 29/10/2007 14:29:26 Originally by: Maxim Powers I'm a few months old right now, are you saying I should still be running around in Empire thinking of looking for an alliance instead of, well, doing all kinds of things out in 0.0? Thanks for the tip. Yeah that is exactly what I'm saying. You are brilliant. Awesome, thanks.
Rbel Ion	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:31:00 - [86] Edited by: Rbel Ion on 29/10/2007 14:31:21 ^^^ nps Originally by: Lee Bian Originally by: Rbel Ion No not really. I just wanted to rub home that you're a laughing stock on somethingawful. everything is the laughing stock of somethingawful, which is kind of the point No it isn't. Originally by: WowZilla Originally by: Rbel Ion No not really. I just wanted to rub home that you're a laughing stock on somethingawful. Goons wont care. But for some reason you do? Yeah they don't care, they just keep posting about it.
fishblades GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:33:00 - [87] First off, the propaganda machine keeps rolling. http://youtube.com/watch?v=lIVM-JMr-cg High quality. http://senduit.com/ac3dc9 Originally by: Natas Dog The problem for Goons is that they now themsleves are one of the old buys clubs. The goons that mostly raided the ISS constellations in Estoteria were not noobs in tech 1 ships - they were experienced players all in expensive tech 2 HAC's and recons. So I think that Goons at some point will have problems recruiting new members, because somehow I do not see the "old" goon players setting up structures that help new players over the entry barriers. My character is less than a month old, when I was accepted to goonswarm I was given 50+ mil isk from various goons as well as 7 fully fitted noob tacklers. I've been on several ops and they never tell me I'm not needed. Also we have more documentation on EvE then CCP does, our Wiki is massive. Every question I've ever asked has been answered, even the stupid ones, furthermore....
Illaria POS War Deserters	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:44:00 - [88] Edited by: Illaria on 29/10/2007 14:44:18 Originally by: fishblades First off, the propaganda machine keeps rolling. http://youtube.com/watch?v=lIVM-JMr-cg High quality. http://senduit.com/ac3dc9 I like your style, keem 'em coming Adding to the newbie debate: I have my issues with Goonfleet, but their integration of newbees is really excellent. They don't do it for altruistic reasons though. Goonfleet is very well aware that any additional pilot, even in a T1 frig, is an asset to their fleet. The problem i had was that you were treated like a mindless drone later on. Be there, shot POS, STFU.
Schani Kratnorr Internal Revenue Service	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:50:00 - [89] Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 29/10/2007 14:50:24 Read your post Illaria, and thought I'd throw in my two cents. I can see how you reach some of your conclusions, and I agree with some of them. Where I differ in opinion (not that is matters one bit), is when it comes to the "nature of Goons" and similar groups. I see Goons, and Bob and all the other 1000+ strong alliances as a natural progression of what takes place in game worlds. Where Goons differ from many of the others, is in their approach to communication. With no unified policy on who can say what on behalf of their friends, Goonswarm has managed to, well, swarm the forums... Part of the attraction of this forum area, was that people conducted themselves in an orderly fashion. They took the time to talk internally, decide how to respond, and then agree what their spokesperson should post on their behalf. This approach made it easy for outsiders to follow the discussion, and avoided having to dig through hundreds of one-liner posts like "OMG I am first". The method had it's flaws though. You'd still have ALT-posters, trolls and outsiders stirring up things, but they are also present with the current "system". My point is this: CAOD has been utterly ruined by sheer volume of posts. If for no other reason, than this, I think we would all be better off if everyone would SHUT UP! Step two would require all organisations and alliances to agree to keep their members from posting if they dont know how. With Goonswarm, the sheer volume of posters make it a job in itself to get an impression of what they are about as a group. Some Goonswarm posters resort to name-calling, references to sexual preferences, slander and run-of-the-mill flames. Others are more careful when wording sharing their opinions, but with all the "noise", it's hard to notice anything clever coming from them (as a group). I am not saying BoB are any better, but if you were somehow able to count the number of posts in here, and sort them by alliance/corp, I think you'd get the picture... So to summarize: In relation to these forums, Goonswarm are bad because they have little or no control over what their members say or do in their name. Remember, what YOU do, reflects back on your friends. If you're a turd, then in the eyes of the rest of us, so are they! In relation to the game, we need to realize that Goonswarm, BoB and everyone else are arbitrary structures in an imaginary world of make-belief. Nothing you say or do REALLY matters. Nothing you "claim" or "loose" ever really existed, exept in your mind. Loosing the respect of your opponents is as bad as loosing the respect of your team. Remember that, when and if you "win"...
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:53:00 - [90] Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 29/10/2007 14:50:24 Read your post Illaria, and thought I'd throw in my two cents. I can see how you reach some of your conclusions, and I agree with some of them. Where I differ in opinion (not that is matters one bit), is when it comes to the "nature of Goons" and similar groups. I see Goons, and Bob and all the other 1000+ strong alliances as a natural progression of what takes place in game worlds. Where Goons differ from many of the others, is in their approach to communication. With no unified policy on who can say what on behalf of their friends, Goonswarm has managed to, well, swarm the forums... Part of the attraction of this forum area, was that people conducted themselves in an orderly fashion. They took the time to talk internally, decide how to respond, and then agree what their spokesperson should post on their behalf. This approach made it easy for outsiders to follow the discussion, and avoided having to dig through hundreds of one-liner posts like "OMG I am first". The method had it's flaws though. You'd still have ALT-posters, trolls and outsiders stirring up things, but they are also present with the current "system". My point is this: CAOD has been utterly ruined by sheer volume of posts. If for no other reason, than this, I think we would all be better off if everyone would SHUT UP! Step two would require all organisations and alliances to agree to keep their members from posting if they dont know how. With Goonswarm, the sheer volume of posters make it a job in itself to get an impression of what they are about as a group. Some Goonswarm posters resort to name-calling, references to sexual preferences, slander and run-of-the-mill flames. Others are more careful when wording sharing their opinions, but with all the "noise", it's hard to notice anything clever coming from them (as a group). I am not saying BoB are any better, but if you were somehow able to count the number of posts in here, and sort them by alliance/corp, I think you'd get the picture... So to summarize: In relation to these forums, Goonswarm are bad because they have little or no control over what their members say or do in their name. Remember, what YOU do, reflects back on your friends. If you're a turd, then in the eyes of the rest of us, so are they! In relation to the game, we need to realize that Goonswarm, BoB and everyone else are arbitrary structures in an imaginary world of make-belief. Nothing you say or do REALLY matters. Nothing you "claim" or "loose" ever really existed, exept in your mind. Loosing the respect of your opponents is as bad as loosing the respect of your team. Remember that, when and if you "win"... calm down

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