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Dictor speeds nerfed across the board

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Lrrp Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.06 15:00:00 - [211] Hey, this is really great! I love it! Unlike the torp nerf that I took the time to train my 2nd acct to use t2 torp launchers, I actually held off buying the Interdictor skill book. Looks like I will save the isk for something else. But wait! What skill should I buy next? I could buy the HAC skill so I can fly a Vagabond, but that will prolly get nerfed in the future. I was looking at Carriers but they are being nerfed so no go there. Me ponders. Hmmm...if all EVE is developing into is a game where what one trains for only gets nerfed into something less than useful, perhaps one is better playing WoW after all. Then again there is a reason WoW has a 8 million player base and Eve has.....what? Players want a certain degree of stability in their game. Not a endless cycle of tweaking. Add content yes, but don't degrade what players have spent months training for. Then again CCP may not truly understand that keeping your long term customers who have multiple accounts happy, is key to being successful.
Dark 0men Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.06 20:18:00 - [212] Bump to the top. Do the interns at CCP have posting privileges? If so, could the person who came up with this change please reply here?
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.07 01:46:00 - [213] Originally by: Dark 0men Bump to the top. Do the interns at CCP have posting privileges? If so, could the person who came up with this change please reply here? remember when the devs headed off for some event and one of the programmers decided to change covert ops so you can actually lock them beFORE they cloaked? and thousands of covert ops were getting slaughtered (when cloaks werestill 70 mill) ... then, the devs came back and pretty much spanked the dude silly (the one who made the change) ... well, im hoping this is a repeat... _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Phaedruss	Posted - 2007.11.07 05:15:00 - [214] Edited by: Phaedruss on 07/11/2007 05:15:53 Originally by: Mr Mozzie Originally by: Aries Acheron Bubbles overpowered? You can say that, but what does nerfing a Dictor's speed have anything to do with that? 90 percent of bubble use is at a gate, where a Battleship's speed works. the only difference is, without speed, a dictor loses it's secondary abilities: The ability to engage Interceptors and AFs effectively, and the ability to survive post-bubble (or before if you have to get into position). Yeah, I agree that gates is where they are most overpowered. I just can't see how you could nerf bubbles at gates without making them completely useless. Reducing their time to 30 seconds would be nice, but it wouldn't change much. Dictor bubbles are hardly overpowered at gates. If you're chasing a target thru a gate, dictor and target nearly always uncloak on the other side well outside of bubble range from each other. With a dictor sitting on a gate and a target jumping thru from the other side, that target decloaks toward the outer edges of the bubble. Nano ships will usually be able to make it back to the gate and small ships can often just fly out of the bubble and get away. Dictors are not easy to use properly. I remember when I first started training for dictors I was very excited about all the kills I was going to get with it. It's not like that, or more to the point, it can be, but it requires a lot of pilot skill and experience to be very effective in a dictor. Further, most inexperienced pilots (and many experienced pilots) tend to panic when they get into a dictor bubble and make mistakes. When jumping thru a gate and into a bubble, you always see people not using the cloaked time to confirm there's a bubble and to check where you are in the bubble and the best way to get out. Warping into a bubble often happens when people don't scan gates firs (sometimes it's not possible because gates are too far apart and there are no celestial bodies to warp to first, but this is probably a minority of cases). All in all, while admitting that bubbles can be extremely effective...and why would anyone bother with them if they weren't, they often appear more effective than they really are because of a combination of some truly brilliant dictor pilots out there and an abundance of targets who simply don't react appropriately.
Green Onions Funk Fu Industries	Posted - 2007.11.07 07:30:00 - [215] Well in the last month one of my alts finished training Acceleration control Lv5, And Interdictors Lv5. So now I am still primary but my ability to get out of dodge has been greatly diminished :( Not to mention how are we hell are we going to catch the new and improved interceptors now? With the changes to ceptors cap mods are no longer needed and speed mod will be the go making them even faster. So they better change the dam description on the ships then, cause they wont be catching them anymore :( With 2 X ODII's 1mn II I only get 3.7 M/s on SISI now :( Just shy of 5k on TQ. *******s is all I really have to add.....
Hertford Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.07 11:35:00 - [216] I have to say that the One-Low-Slot-Flycatcher definitely needed a speed nerf.
Helldrek Demonstar Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.07 12:15:00 - [217] Worst Idea Ever. Please dont let this hit TQ. ---
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.07 17:49:00 - [218] ccp has reply'd to all sorts of threads in game developement forum this week (quite a few on teh HIC thread) why haven't they confronted us with this yet? also. i just read, the HIC scramlber can be used on a single mom in low sec or whatever... wihtout suffering the penalties of the HIC bubble... so basically, the broadsword, and the amarr one, can perma speed tanka mothership (with exception to neuts and webs of course) so.. WHY are you nerfing out interdictors1!?!?!?!?!? specially when the broadsword is goign faster than them _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
meef Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.07 18:50:00 - [219] Originally by: Snowden Vel CCP's idea of balance: making everything suck. :cripes: INCLUDING AMARR RECONS. .... OH WAIT..
Kasilof	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:29:00 - [220] Edited by: Kasilof on 07/11/2007 22:29:49 I am not a frequent visitor to this section of the forum. However, this issue is important to me and I thought the devs might provide some insight and discussion on this change. I still hope they do. No comments at all from CCP on this change is very disappointing. I have heard that the EVE developer's communicate much better with its players than other games. I am not seeing it so far. Ha forgot to log in my main. Susitna.
Drash Kammatarr German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:52:00 - [221] Edited by: Drash Kammatarr on 07/11/2007 22:52:36 this outrageous! I skill for caldari missile boats...a few weeks later they get nerfed. I skill for amarr recons...few weeks later comes the nos nerf. I skill for sabre...now the speed nerf. wth is wrong with you, CCP?!? Why do you hate me? I never paid late, and if I do, just send some guys with baseball bats to my home. I can handle a few weeks of hospital, but months of skilltime down the drain is no good!! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Dawn Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.08 02:49:00 - [222] if ut akes away my Dictor speed, plz give back double/triple MWD.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.08 06:08:00 - [223] Originally by: Drash Kammatarr Edited by: Drash Kammatarr on 07/11/2007 22:52:36 this outrageous! I skill for caldari missile boats...a few weeks later they get nerfed. I skill for amarr recons...few weeks later comes the nos nerf. I skill for sabre...now the speed nerf. wth is wrong with you, CCP?!? Why do you hate me? I never paid late, and if I do, just send some guys with baseball bats to my home. I can handle a few weeks of hospital, but months of skilltime down the drain is no good!! If you train for FOTM thats how you end. FOTM will always get nerfed sooner or later.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.11.08 09:46:00 - [224] Edited by: Kerfira on 08/11/2007 09:54:49 Originally by: Drash Kammatarr Edited by: Drash Kammatarr on 07/11/2007 22:52:36 this outrageous! I skill for caldari missile boats...a few weeks later they get nerfed. I skill for amarr recons...few weeks later comes the nos nerf. I skill for sabre...now the speed nerf. wth is wrong with you, CCP?!? Why do you hate me? I never paid late, and if I do, just send some guys with baseball bats to my home. I can handle a few weeks of hospital, but months of skilltime down the drain is no good!! Please start training Amarr exclusively!!! On-topic: Sensor boosters are also getting nerfed, which might bring fleets closer together, meaning speed is not quite as important. Since 'dictors have almost totally 'removed' the 'ceptors from any usefull role in fleets, I personally think that some nerf of 'dictors are warranted. Whether this is it.... No idea, but the '10km/s' interdictors are stupid. Personally I'd go for a speed nerf across the board instead with these max. speeds using T2 or best named equipment: Frigates: 7.5 km/s Destroyers: 5 km/s Cruisers: 3 km/s Battlecruisers: 2 km/s Battleships: 1.5 km/s Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.08 10:03:00 - [225] The idea behinf it is right because sabres are simply to fast. I fly one and everytime i board it makes me laugh because it is so bloody overpowered. The problem is that it is a very poor nerf. This nerf hits the sabre but also all the other dictors. Seriously - did the eris need a nerf? Polycarbs are broken. Very badly so. Maybe they should fix the source of the problem instead of nerfing a whole ship class by looking at symptoms. Polycarbs make many ships imbalanced - not only sabres. If you have the cash to invest 100 mill into speed you can nano up pretty much anything. There is working nano cerberus setups out there. That's just bloody ridiculous.
Skadhi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.08 10:23:00 - [226] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 08/11/2007 09:54:49 Since 'dictors have almost totally 'removed' the 'ceptors from any usefull role in fleets, I personally think that some nerf of 'dictors are warranted. Whether this is it.... No idea, but the '10km/s' interdictors are stupid. Personally I'd go for a speed nerf across the board instead with these max. speeds using T2 or best named equipment: Frigates: 7.5 km/s Destroyers: 5 km/s A T2 unrigged sabre (without implants) is currently (on TQ) below 5km/s, this nerf is going to make it go 3.5k/s or so. I agree that 10km/s+ dictors (or ships in general, really) are broken, but you need snakes for that. Snakes are broken, not the ships. Nerf snakes, don't make the gap between the rich and poor even larger and break ships by balancing around stupidly overpowered implants.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.11.08 10:45:00 - [227] Edited by: Kerfira on 08/11/2007 10:45:11 Originally by: Skadhi Originally by: Kerfira Since 'dictors have almost totally 'removed' the 'ceptors from any usefull role in fleets, I personally think that some nerf of 'dictors are warranted. Whether this is it.... No idea, but the '10km/s' interdictors are stupid. Personally I'd go for a speed nerf across the board instead with these max. speeds using T2 or best named equipment: Frigates: 7.5 km/s Destroyers: 5 km/s A T2 unrigged sabre (without implants) is currently (on TQ) below 5km/s, this nerf is going to make it go 3.5k/s or so. I agree that 10km/s+ dictors (or ships in general, really) are broken, but you need snakes for that. Snakes are broken, not the ships. Nerf snakes, don't make the gap between the rich and poor even larger and break ships by balancing around stupidly overpowered implants. I was including Rigs in my considerations.... I dunno, maybe just place a hard cap on all types of ships, a speed they can't exceed under any circumstances, would be a better solution.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Skadhi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:00:00 - [228] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 08/11/2007 10:45:11 I was including Rigs in my considerations.... I dunno, maybe just place a hard cap on all types of ships, a speed they can't exceed under any circumstances, would be a better solution.... No, that would be a stupid idea. 100m of rigs (2 polycarbs) on a 35m primary with ~3k hitpoints, this gets expensive surprisingly fast. These ships are already suicide boats in fleets, going 25% slower will lead to them exploding before dropping their bubble instead of after. This is a nerf looking for a problem.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:22:00 - [229] Edited by: Kerfira on 08/11/2007 11:24:36 Originally by: Skadhi This is a nerf looking for a problem. Since 'dictors have almost totally replaced i'ceptors, there IS a problem. A speed nerf (I'm mostly thinking of the Sabre here) would be one solution.... Whether it's THE solution, I don't know, but ships being effectively invulnerable due to speed (no matter how that is done, snakes/rigs/whatever) is just wrong (this goes for all other shiptypes too btw, 'ceptors, vaga's etc.)... Originally by: Skadhi 100m of rigs (2 polycarbs) on a 35m primary with ~3k hitpoints, this gets expensive surprisingly fast. These ships are already suicide boats in fleets ...and still people are using them. This must indicate that they're worth it! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Dangerously Cheesey GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.08 17:56:00 - [230] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 08/11/2007 11:24:36 Originally by: Skadhi This is a nerf looking for a problem. Since 'dictors have almost totally replaced i'ceptors, there IS a problem. A speed nerf (I'm mostly thinking of the Sabre here) would be one solution.... Whether it's THE solution, I don't know, but ships being effectively invulnerable due to speed (no matter how that is done, snakes/rigs/whatever) is just wrong (this goes for all other shiptypes too btw, 'ceptors, vaga's etc.)... Originally by: Skadhi 100m of rigs (2 polycarbs) on a 35m primary with ~3k hitpoints, this gets expensive surprisingly fast. These ships are already suicide boats in fleets ...and still people are using them. This must indicate that they're worth it! Dictors have replaced ceptors for fleets? If only they gave ceptors some kind of fleet buff in the next patch - oh wait, they did! This nerf just turns dictors in fleet fights from "I wonder if I can burn, drop a bubble and get out before I die" to "FLYING COFFIN". The only potential saving grace is that this script nerf to TC/TE/SB might nerf eagles/muninns/etc hard enough to slightly counter balance the speed nerf.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.08 18:16:00 - [231] ARGH! sabres or other dictors do NOT GO 10km per second unless they are 300 mill plus 1 bill for snakes! i know, i fly one! LOOK AT REALISTIC NUMBERS! before implying that all 'sabres' go 10km, and are we forgetting, that eris is actually able to go faster, and a normal fit heretic is 7% slower than a sabre and can fight outside of web range! stop blaming your problem on sabres, stop blaming them on dictors, to a guy a few posts above, your right, nerfing dictor speed doesnt fix the problems out there now. but... polycarb are NOT broken, they are just too effective. and yes, im agreeing, they should be removed from game, even tho i have 4 ship currently in game with dual polys _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.08 18:18:00 - [232] i cant wait for all the people whining about sabres going too fast, to start crying that intys are going EVEN FASTER (cause you can now use one more low slot for speed, instead of cap mod) AND they can hold you down permanently! stop freakin gout about dictors and intys, and worry about the real problem of hacs going 5+ km... when the poor assault frigates are stil only going 2+km _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Dark 0men Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.08 22:49:00 - [233] Originally by: Kerfira ...and still people are using them. This must indicate that they're worth it! Well, ****. Let's nerf them until they aren't worth it, right? You have a job in CCP game design team waiting for you.
Dark 0men Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.09 17:41:00 - [234] Ah, we got a dev response, finally. Here's the snarky one-liner: Originally by: CCP Zulupark Being able to bubble up a 20km radius with a very very small ship should have some drawbacks don't you think? It shouldn't be a no-brainer to do in my opinion. Hey buddy? Were you perhaps a missioning carebear before joining CCP? In that case, I got some bad news. Your opinions didn't suddenly get more valid after getting hired. If the only reasoning you can give is "I think it should be this way", maybe you need to stay away from game design. I understand it gets a little tough, explaining so many random nerfs, and I have an excellent solution for that. Don't nerf things that don't need it.
Sofia Roseburn Caldari Racketeers	Posted - 2007.11.09 17:43:00 - [235] Originally by: Dark 0men Ah, we got a dev response, finally. Here's the snarky one-liner: Originally by: CCP Zulupark Being able to bubble up a 20km radius with a very very small ship should have some drawbacks don't you think? It shouldn't be a no-brainer to do in my opinion. Hey buddy? Were you perhaps a missioning carebear before joining CCP? In that case, I got some bad news. Your opinions didn't suddenly get more valid after getting hired. If the only reasoning you can give is "I think it should be this way", maybe you need to stay away from game design. I understand it gets a little tough, explaining so many random nerfs, and I have an excellent solution for that. Don't nerf things that don't need it. -----
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.09 18:19:00 - [236] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Being able to bubble up a 20km radius with a very very small ship should have some drawbacks don't you think? It shouldn't be a no-brainer to do in my opinion. It's an overgrown frigate, with microwarp and shield extenders to give it the sig radius of a small galaxy, that every fleet wants to kill first. There's your drawbacks. Good god. Does anyone else miss the days when this game had developers that knew what the hell they were talking about? Honestly, if you don't understand how something works, why are you making changes to it? -- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot
Maximiliuss	Posted - 2007.11.09 23:39:00 - [237] Of all the ship types to get a nerf.. i never expected it to be this one. There goes a whole freaking character designed to fly this kind of ship... I mean seriously it's going to cost an arm and a leg to fit a decent dictor that can live past some turret fire.. let alone missiles. Oh and now that you are slower guess what.. i bet even drones will catch up to you. CCP, i was starting to like you guys again, but there you are outnoobing your self.. UGh.
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.09 23:42:00 - [238] Edited by: Incantare on 09/11/2007 23:42:03 It's Zulupark, that explains it .
Phaedruss	Posted - 2007.11.10 07:47:00 - [239] Edited by: Phaedruss on 10/11/2007 07:47:28 Originally by: Dark 0men Ah, we got a dev response, finally. Here's the snarky one-liner: Originally by: CCP Zulupark Being able to bubble up a 20km radius with a very very small ship should have some drawbacks don't you think? It shouldn't be a no-brainer to do in my opinion. Hey buddy? Were you perhaps a missioning carebear before joining CCP? In that case, I got some bad news. Your opinions didn't suddenly get more valid after getting hired. If the only reasoning you can give is "I think it should be this way", maybe you need to stay away from game design. I understand it gets a little tough, explaining so many random nerfs, and I have an excellent solution for that. Don't nerf things that don't need it. Well said. Signed.
TjediAI	Posted - 2007.11.10 10:28:00 - [240] it's disballance ??? 3 minutes before dead its t2 saber 2 t2 over t2 mwd +(rogue impl) w/o gang bonus i was afk on safe, and then i return see that =) 2 days before i fight on Eris vs enemy SAbre...i losse.... 1 web vs 2 web// no fire power vs 7x200mm ERIS is mega dictor he have one drone one free med slot and topspeed in class but sabre have it whith 2 low 5 rail (wo track bonus) or 5 rockets (wo speed bonus) why dictors nerfing sabre is best dictors, only on sabre player can fight, all normal dictors fly on sabre... becouse "all" dictors fly on sabre we have disballance, and CCp nerf all class IF sabre best eris or sabre best heretic or sabre best flykacher then nerf dictors; End if; return();

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