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Dictor speeds nerfed across the board

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Benedic The Aftermath	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:02:00 - [1] Edited by: Benedic on 02/11/2007 01:06:17 No more heavy interceptors for you! Sabre: 340m/s Flycatcher: 335m/s Eris: 325m/s Heretic: 315m/s
Neslo Gallente DarkStar 1	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:13:00 - [2] Originally by: Benedic Edited by: Benedic on 02/11/2007 01:06:17 No more heavy interceptors for you! Sabre: 340m/s Flycatcher: 335m/s Eris: 325m/s Heretic: 315m/s I was just thinking... you know what else should be slower in this game... interdictors... lol... I fear this isn't the last thing to be "tweaked" From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
Horribad	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:17:00 - [3] Edited by: Horribad on 02/11/2007 01:17:53 I heard dictors are hard to kill. Wait nm. This is Horribad.
Dangerously Cheesey GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:20:00 - [4] There goes any prayer you had of surviving in a fleet fight in a dictor. begins Grav Physics 4 for the broadsword
Ilvan	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:21:00 - [5] Oh god the nerfs are everywhere CCP what are you doing
Phaedruss	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Benedic Edited by: Benedic on 02/11/2007 01:06:17 No more heavy interceptors for you! Sabre: 340m/s Flycatcher: 335m/s Eris: 325m/s Heretic: 315m/s That seems to be the formula they're using...send technology in Eve 25% of the way back into the dark ages on patch day
Pattern Clarc Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:22:00 - [7] was this really necessary? IIRC, the sabre was the only reason for the class imbalance. Quote: [02:31:17] ISD BH Kestrelprime > The Pally is powerful enough. [02:31:27] ISD BH Kestrelprime > All it needs is a hearthstone so it can Bubblehearth.
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:22:00 - [8] Edited by: Leon 026 on 02/11/2007 01:24:22 There goes any hopes of killing 10km/s+ inties that arent stupid enough to drift in within web range. CCP couldve just simply nerfed polycarbs, thus affecting every 'nano' ship that uses it... I dont understand the reason for nerfing dictors, when things flying overly fast is still a major issue across multiple shiptypes. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Krontos Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:25:00 - [9] Think I'll reconsider training for vagabonds at the rate this is going.
Horribad	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:26:00 - [10] LOL@flycatcher with max skills going 2600m/s
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:27:00 - [11] Originally by: Leon 026 Edited by: Leon 026 on 02/11/2007 01:24:22 There goes any hopes of killing 10km/s+ inties that arent stupid enough to drift in within web range. CCP couldve just simply nerfed polycarbs, thus affecting every 'nano' ship that uses it... I dont understand the reason for nerfing dictors, when things flying overly fast is still a major issue across multiple shiptypes. snakes not polycarbs. or both
Antithysis Gallente Athanasius Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:27:00 - [12] Why does CCP need to nerf interdictor speeds when it is specifically designed to be very effective against frigates/interceptors? A T2 fitted sabre will be lucky to catch anything now, much less the really fast ceptors who could only be caught before through piloting skills and the fact that dictors could go moderately fast? -Anti Currently accepting graphic commissions.
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Swamp Ziro Originally by: Leon 026 Edited by: Leon 026 on 02/11/2007 01:24:22 There goes any hopes of killing 10km/s+ inties that arent stupid enough to drift in within web range. CCP couldve just simply nerfed polycarbs, thus affecting every 'nano' ship that uses it... I dont understand the reason for nerfing dictors, when things flying overly fast is still a major issue across multiple shiptypes. snakes not polycarbs. or both Snakes are in fact, less of an issue when ships are flying slower. +33% (400-500mil) of a 4k/s inty is only a total boost of 1,320m/s. +33% of a 10k/s inty with polycarbs with overdrives is a boost of 3,300m/s. High speed inties give you double the bang for the buck compared to slower inties; meaning you pay more for the minor boost on slower inties. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Annaliese Witschak Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:31:00 - [14] It's probably their intention to have Hyenas fill the void this nerf creates.
Horribad	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:34:00 - [15] Hyenas are going to be ******* amazing. still... Doesn't change the fact that dictors are going to explode easier than tech 1 cruisers ;\|
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:34:00 - [16] Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 02/11/2007 01:34:57 Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 02/11/2007 01:34:47 Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 02/11/2007 01:34:27 Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 02/11/2007 01:34:16 Originally by: Annaliese Witschak It's probably their intention to have Hyenas fill the void this nerf creates. I think we can safely say that they plan to fill the void with their huge bulging MALE MOTHER F-UCKIN-G REPRODUCTORY ORGAN WORD FILTER :ARGH at this point
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:39:00 - [17] nice twist. now lets nerft snakes and carbons to!
CaptainGordon Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:45:00 - [18] I think they should reset eve imho tbqh
Horribad	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Swamp Ziro Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 02/11/2007 01:34:57 Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 02/11/2007 01:34:47 Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 02/11/2007 01:34:27 Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 02/11/2007 01:34:16 Originally by: Annaliese Witschak It's probably their intention to have Hyenas fill the void this nerf creates. I think we can safely say that they plan to fill the void with their huge bulging MALE MOTHER F-UCKIN-G REPRODUCTORY ORGAN WORD FILTER :ARGH at this point what he said
Delvainar GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:49:00 - [20] hahaha they're just changing random ** to be *****s now, aren't they?
Dark 0men Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:52:00 - [21] What the ** CCP? What goddamn reason do you have for making my sabre slower than a sucking vagabond? It's the only decent *** dictor, and you decided to nerf it. I guess I'll have to always fly two characters. One for bubble and GTFO and the other for actually doing anything. Did Oveur and all the original developers leave to work on some other failure of a game and leave minimum wage intern burger flippers (hired from the same **** asylum as GMs) to maintain EVE? If so, maybe they shouldn't be changing the game mechanics.
Hehulk Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:53:00 - [22] The hell, wtf for? ---------- It's great being minmatar, ain't it
Moon Kitten GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:56:00 - [23] Edited by: Moon Kitten on 02/11/2007 01:56:40 Too much bree?
Kwa Kaine eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:56:00 - [24] Another sad day for the future of eve.
Pattern Clarc Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:00:00 - [25] stabbers are now faster than interdictors - congrats CCP Quote: [02:31:17] ISD BH Kestrelprime > The Pally is powerful enough. [02:31:27] ISD BH Kestrelprime > All it needs is a hearthstone so it can Bubblehearth.
silken mouth	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:00:00 - [26] i already see the report by EveTV: " Yesterday Fanfest was interrupted by a disgusting incident, when enraged players under influence of alcohol tried to carve the stupidity out of several developers heads utilizing spoons and other blunt tools.."
Krontos Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:01:00 - [27] Originally by: Pattern Clarc stabbers are now faster than interdictors - congrats CCP Give it a few days. If stabbers were too fast for CCPs taste what do you think is going to happen to stabbers/vagas?
Horribad	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:10:00 - [28] Yes, because they are not capitals.
Selnix Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:13:00 - [29] Additionally, much like their destroyer-class progenitors, they are well-suited to offensive strikes against frigate-sized craft. So what frigate sized craft would those be? Covert Ops frigates? Nope... they're already cloaked. Stealth bombers? Nope... they shouldn't be stupid enough to decloak. Assault Frigates? Nope, they will tank you long enough to kill you now that you are slow as **** and have the signature radius of a cruiser. Interceptors? Hell no, they're already 100km away. What was that? Oh... just the sound of the Stabber pilot laughing as their tech 1 cruiser and 60 days of skills run away from your maxxed out Nav skills and months of interdictor training. And while this is still a hard kick in the teeth for Sabre pilots, it is a really really hard kick in the nuts to Heretic and Flycatcher pilots. Now we have ships that can not tank, can not speed tank effectively, get called primary on a regular basis, can not escape from interceptors or have any hope of killing them, and most of all, can not use tech II ammo. Granted, if you want to have a -10% x 6 penalty to capacitor recharge rate you can still use rage rockets or fury light missiles, but you might as well forget about fitting a warp disruptor and a MWD on the ship with that ammo. Using the other Tech II ammo is laughable, as the -7.5% x 6 penalty to max velocity will slow you down enough that you will be getting outrun by pretty much anything smaller than a battlecruiser. As for the Eris pilots out there, you were already getting the shaft and now they're just taking away the lube... So what was it that was supposed to be all cool about Revelations III? Oh yeah... some new ship types that they decided noone will want to fly because they really aren't all that special after all. Maybe if we nerf the ones they like to fly into oblivion they'll see the light and use the new ones that are still just a shadow of the old. Hell, the module-based interdiction sphere doesn't even pull people out of warp, what a great improvement that is.
Horribad	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:13:00 - [30] Dictors are both useful and fun to fly. This is not allowed. Fixed.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:14:00 - [31] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr sabre needed a change. Possibly. Though I'd have guessed it would have been a fitting nerf rather than one to base speed. Or a speed boost to the other Dictors. Whatever. But do you really think that the whole class needed a speed nerf? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Pattern Clarc Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:14:00 - [32] Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 02/11/2007 02:14:36 Originally by: Ferocious FeAr sabre needed a change. Vaga's need one also. your right However, they have nerfed an entire class equaly into patheticness because of one overperformer. Quote: [02:31:17] ISD BH Kestrelprime > The Pally is powerful enough. [02:31:27] ISD BH Kestrelprime > All it needs is a hearthstone so it can Bubblehearth.
Horribad	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 02/11/2007 02:14:36 Originally by: Ferocious FeAr sabre needed a change. Vaga's need one also. your right However, they have nerfed an entire class equaly into patheticness because of one overperformer. You are both wrong. They didn't need to be changed.
Pattern Clarc Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:20:00 - [34] Originally by: Selnix Additionally, much like their destroyer-class progenitors, they are well-suited to offensive strikes against frigate-sized craft. So what frigate sized craft would those be? Covert Ops frigates? Nope... they're already cloaked. Stealth bombers? Nope... they shouldn't be stupid enough to decloak. Assault Frigates? Nope, they will tank you long enough to kill you now that you are slow as ** and have the signature radius of a cruiser. Interceptors? Hell no, they're already 100km away. What was that? Oh... just the sound of the Stabber pilot laughing as their tech 1 cruiser and 60 days of skills run away from your maxxed out Nav skills and months of interdictor training. And while this is still a hard kick in the teeth for Sabre pilots, it is a really really hard kick in the nuts to Heretic and Flycatcher pilots. Now we have ships that can not tank, can not speed tank effectively, get called primary on a regular basis, can not escape from interceptors or have any hope of killing them, and most of all, can not use tech II ammo. Granted, if you want to have a -10% x 6 penalty to capacitor recharge rate you can still use rage rockets or fury light missiles, but you might as well forget about fitting a warp disruptor and a MWD on the ship with that ammo. Using the other Tech II ammo is laughable, as the -7.5% x 6 penalty to max velocity will slow you down enough that you will be getting outrun by pretty much anything smaller than a battlecruiser. As for the Eris pilots out there, you were already getting the shaft and now they're just taking away the lube... So what was it that was supposed to be all cool about Revelations III? Oh yeah... some new ship types that they decided noone will want to fly because they really aren't all that special after all. Maybe if we nerf the ones they like to fly into oblivion they'll see the light and use the new ones that are still just a shadow of the old. Hell, the module-based interdiction sphere doesn't even pull people out of warp, what a great improvement that is. QFT Quote:** [02:31:17] ISD BH Kestrelprime > The Pally is powerful enough. [02:31:27] ISD BH Kestrelprime > All it needs is a hearthstone so it can Bubblehearth.
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:23:00 - [35] Edited by: Leon 026 on 02/11/2007 02:23:11 Originally by: Selnix Additionally, much like their destroyer-class progenitors, they are well-suited to offensive strikes against frigate-sized craft. So what frigate sized craft would those be? Covert Ops frigates? Nope... they're already cloaked. Stealth bombers? Nope... they shouldn't be stupid enough to decloak. Assault Frigates? Nope, they will tank you long enough to kill you now that you are slow as **** and have the signature radius of a cruiser. Interceptors? Hell no, they're already 100km away. What was that? Oh... just the sound of the Stabber pilot laughing as their tech 1 cruiser and 60 days of skills run away from your maxxed out Nav skills and months of interdictor training. And while this is still a hard kick in the teeth for Sabre pilots, it is a really really hard kick in the nuts to Heretic and Flycatcher pilots. Now we have ships that can not tank, can not speed tank effectively, get called primary on a regular basis, can not escape from interceptors or have any hope of killing them, and most of all, can not use tech II ammo. Granted, if you want to have a -10% x 6 penalty to capacitor recharge rate you can still use rage rockets or fury light missiles, but you might as well forget about fitting a warp disruptor and a MWD on the ship with that ammo. Using the other Tech II ammo is laughable, as the -7.5% x 6 penalty to max velocity will slow you down enough that you will be getting outrun by pretty much anything smaller than a battlecruiser. As for the Eris pilots out there, you were already getting the shaft and now they're just taking away the lube... So what was it that was supposed to be all cool about Revelations III? Oh yeah... some new ship types that they decided noone will want to fly because they really aren't all that special after all. Maybe if we nerf the ones they like to fly into oblivion they'll see the light and use the new ones that are still just a shadow of the old. Hell, the module-based interdiction sphere doesn't even pull people out of warp, what a great improvement that is. QFT ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Yukisa	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:48:00 - [36] The problem is their game mechanic offers no defense for small ships against big ship turrets at long range. Tracking is a good design when its close range but long range unless you fly insanely overpowered fast, you will be popped. In reality the sig resolution of turrets should be the direct stat that determines their accuracy at any range. I.e. BS at 150km shooting a stationary cruiser.. 150 radius vs 400 resoluton = 37% accuracy. This kind of mechanic would prevent the need for smaller ships going stupidly fast as a defense. It would also increase the need for mixed fleets. What we have now is a farce. The only defense small ships have is speed. But when they reach a threshold, nothing hits them, not drones, turrets or missiles. There's no inbetween. You either go extremely fast and become immune or you get popped.
Pattern Clarc Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:55:00 - [37] Originally by: Yukisa The problem is their game mechanic offers no defense for small ships against big ship turrets at long range. Tracking is a good design when its close range but long range unless you fly insanely overpowered fast, you will be popped. In reality the sig resolution of turrets should be the direct stat that determines their accuracy at any range. I.e. BS at 150km shooting a stationary cruiser.. 150 radius vs 400 resoluton = 37% accuracy. This kind of mechanic would prevent the need for smaller ships going stupidly fast as a defense. It would also increase the need for mixed fleets. What we have now is a farce. The only defense small ships have is speed. But when they reach a threshold, nothing hits them, not drones, turrets or missiles. There's no inbetween. You either go extremely fast and become immune or you get popped. I've said this millions and millions of times. /Signed Quote: [02:31:17] ISD BH Kestrelprime > The Pally is powerful enough. [02:31:27] ISD BH Kestrelprime > All it needs is a hearthstone so it can Bubblehearth.
Sarah Aubry Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:59:00 - [38] Just wait and see - perhaps they are going to reduce the speed of all fast ships. It would be interesting to see a non-nano eve. I think the idea for catching a ceptor is use a ceptor :) especially with their new web range bonus.
Transcendant One	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:01:00 - [39] My guess is they're trying to make their new dictors more useful by making the current ones less survivable. Same mentality as the freighter nerf.
Lord Jita	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:02:00 - [40] This change sucks please change it back. I am going to throw up and ruin my pants over this.
Selnix Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:03:00 - [41] Originally by: Sarah Aubry Just wait and see - perhaps they are going to reduce the speed of all fast ships. It would be interesting to see a non-nano eve. I think the idea for catching a ceptor is use a ceptor :) especially with their new web range bonus. Great point, except that there are no ceptors with a web range bonus and this thread is about a ship that can not tank losing the only defense that it currently has. Also, even a dictor with good speed, 5km/s+ atm will still take damage from a sniping BS with decent skills at range and will be hammered by a medium gun sniper.
Tubiger Koshaku Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:08:00 - [42] They might as well replace dictors with a 30mil ISK one-shot bubblebomb, because that's exactly how many bubbles you will launch before you die.
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:10:00 - [43] **** sake, just finished training dictors... The Movement is recruiting!
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:12:00 - [44] I'm really sad to have invested 13 million skillpoints in my dictor. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Goca KAOS. Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:13:00 - [45] ******ation has gone to new levels in CCP..
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:16:00 - [46] so you took the least survivable ship in a fleet and made it even less survivable. thanks for solving the problems no one have, CCP.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:16:00 - [47] GOD ***ING DAMNIT CCP, STOP NERFING EVERYTHING FOR NO REASON. Interdictors are NOT overpowered. They're already barely more than a one-shot suicide bubble that's called primary by every ship in the enemy fleet. The one redeeming factor is that they're fast enough to evade some damage, especially at close range. Seriously: stop making all these unwanted changes to ships and modules that aren't unbalanced. Nerfing something should be a last resort*, not a weekly "let's mess with something to keep people guessing".
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:18:00 - [48] Originally by: Liang Nuren I'm really sad to have invested 13 million skillpoints in my dictor. Liang i hear yea, i even have dictor 5.. i already resigned from eve if they follow through with this... thats a promise. _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:18:00 - [49] my god. What are you doing.
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:19:00 - [50] Interdictors: Now with 98% less survivability. Srsly, the hell is this? /me reprocesses dictors and uses minerals to build mobile warp bubbles.
Aries Acheron Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:23:00 - [51] This is idiotic. Destroyers have always been a terrible class because of their massive sig radius, and low HP. Now interdictors (Especially the Flycatcher and Heretic) suffer massively from the speed reduction in their ability to perform their job as well as successfully fight off enemy frigates. Why is CCP nerfing ships that still are only somewhat stronger than Interceptors, and are lunchmeat for a well fit cruiser? They're no more pwnmobiles than a Taranis or Crow is. ~~~ Survive Eve! Eve Tribune
Aceoil Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:24:00 - [52] Why would you even CONSIDER a move like this. True, its on the test server and it could never see the light of Tranquility. But you SHOULD not consider this. This is a terrible terrible nerf. Interdictors will be a one shot bubble launcher and then dead. Who's bright idea was this?
VoYvod Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:25:00 - [53] /signed this is ret4rded
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:26:00 - [54] Edited by: Pheonix Kanan on 02/11/2007 03:25:53 My sig says it all REV 3 =
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:26:00 - [55] Originally by: Aries Acheron They're no more pwnmobiles than a Taranis or Crow is. If I was in a dictor and saw a crow, I'd run for it, tbh, even without this nerf. Im going to go cry now. Maybe become an hero.
Arenis Xemdal Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:26:00 - [56] I love this change. Ever since Dictors were released, they've become the endgame of tackling. It has long since been the opinion of experienced FCs that Interceptors are entirely useless in the context of fleets, and should be disallowed entirely. Maybe this will make them a valid choice once again. Fendahl, you are my new favorite dev. :3
Zachstar	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:29:00 - [57] Edited by: Zachstar on 02/11/2007 03:29:03 With all these Nerfs, Infinity: Quest for Earth is getting better looking every day. No you can't have my stuff. Hell I think I ought to spend the time to learn to contribute to Infinity. It is better than waiting for skills to finish to fly the next ship CCP thinks they ought to nerf next. CCP do you take pleasure in seeing so many topics telling you your actions are WRONG? Good luck with continued sales when people start to get tired of this junk and leave.
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:30:00 - [58] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal I love this change. Ever since Dictors were released, they've become the endgame of tackling. It has long since been the opinion of experienced FCs that Interceptors are entirely useless in the context of fleets, and should be disallowed entirely. Maybe this will make them a valid choice once again. Fendahl, you are my new favorite dev. :3 Wut? A group of fleet fitted BSs can get outta a dictor bubble pretty quick unless you get webs on them. A minmatar recon can do this, but ceptors are a dime-a-dozen in comparison.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:30:00 - [59] Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 02/11/2007 03:31:23 Thanks CCP for turning the dictors into **. This along with several of your "NERF's" and so called balance is wacked. My Sabres aren't the uberest of dictors, but with T2 1mn MWD, odj/nano II, poly/auxthr I's reaches about 5800m/s just flying solo. when the you going to nerf nano-ishtards, zealots, absolutions, and every other god damn ship that isn't supposed to be a fast ship by design like the few minmatar ships with an actual speed bonus like the vagabond. Infinity and Universe Online are looking much better. THUKKER -Be Paranoid Skeet** Skeet L33t
VoYvod Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:33:00 - [60] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal I love this change. Ever since Dictors were released, they've become the endgame of tackling. It has long since been the opinion of experienced FCs that Interceptors are entirely useless in the context of fleets, and should be disallowed entirely. Maybe this will make them a valid choice once again. Fendahl, you are my new favorite dev. :3 oh may somebody kick you in the throat repeatedly , with the new boosts to ceptors - and introduction of these new awesome recon frigs - why these changes?
Arenis Xemdal Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:35:00 - [61] No need to get personal, just because you don't have the best interests of EVE in mind. The sole function of Dictors is to drop bubbles on groups of people. I fail to see how anything has changed with that regard, you just won't be chasing down Interceptors in a fleet battle. Thus, you won't double as anti-support to the same extent.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:38:00 - [62] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal No need to get personal, just because you don't have the best interests of EVE in mind. The sole function of Dictors is to drop bubbles on groups of people. I fail to see how anything has changed with that regard, you just won't be chasing down Interceptors in a fleet battle. Thus, you won't double as anti-support to the same extent. So, what about the "anti-frigate" capacity of interdictors? Destroyers = Anti T1 Frig Interdictors = Anti T2 frig Except now there won't be any anti-t2 frig At least all dictor pilots are guaranteed to be good inty pilots. It's a requirement (literally). I'm beyond livid that the dictor is being nerfed. Nerf the Eris and leave the Vagabond alone... I simply don't know what to say. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:39:00 - [63] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal No need to get personal, just because you don't have the best interests of EVE in mind. The sole function of Dictors is to drop bubbles on groups of people. I fail to see how anything has changed with that regard, you just won't be chasing down Interceptors in a fleet battle. Thus, you won't double as anti-support to the same extent. Thus you become useless in small gangs. Thus you become a sitting duck in your own bubble.
Selnix Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:41:00 - [64] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal I love this change. Ever since Dictors were released, they've become the endgame of tackling. It has long since been the opinion of experienced FCs that Interceptors are entirely useless in the context of fleets, and should be disallowed entirely. Maybe this will make them a valid choice once again. Fendahl, you are my new favorite dev. :3 Thought the cap use and scram range bonuses were to make interceptors better at filling their roles. Maybe whine about a ship you can actually fly next time and quit being a useless troll.
Arenis Xemdal Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:43:00 - [65] Well yeah, its kind of funny the Eris is getting nerfed when its perhaps one of the worst t2 ships in EVE. But its issues are fitting relayed - crap cpu, crap grid. Its ability to function as a dictor is more or less on par with any other dictor. Maybe a little better cause its faster. So they can still go through with this nerf, it just means the Eris still needs to be fixed later. Second, even with the nerf, the ships are fast enough to escape their own bubble. I know it, and you know it. Lets not over-exaggerate to the point of absurdity.
Dose One GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:45:00 - [66] Welp, this certainly turned me away from flying any sort of dictor ever. Lah~
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:46:00 - [67] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal Well yeah, its kind of funny the Eris is getting nerfed when its perhaps one of the worst t2 ships in EVE. But its issues are fitting relayed - crap cpu, crap grid. Its ability to function as a dictor is more or less on par with any other dictor. Maybe a little better cause its faster. So they can still go through with this nerf, it just means the Eris still needs to be fixed later. Second, even with the nerf, the ships are fast enough to escape their own bubble. I know it, and you know it. Lets not over-exaggerate to the point of absurdity. For the love of god, SHUT UP! No one agrees with you or wants to hear your opinion because, quite frankly, it's wrong. Really, by talking, all you do is **** more people off and you will be flamed into oblivion. Sig begins here: There are not enough failure images in existence to describe Rev 3
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Heretic Army	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:46:00 - [68] Ceptor changes? I was with you on that. Nos change? Even as a Curse pilot, I was with you. Drone change? Drone user who's still on your side. Now interdictors? What? Were they really that bad? The only one I have ever feared is the Sabre... No tank, check. Sig radius of a small moon, check. Big "Blast the everliving hell out of me!" sign, check. Speed for some semblance of survivability, hello? Even if the Sabre is the reason for this, let's look at it rationally. Is it made of paper? Yup. Not Vagabond "paper". I'm saying it can be one-shotted if it even thinks about slowing down. This is just.... Too tired to make a coherent argument. No, just no --- Amarr/Caldari, and proud of it. Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Arenis Xemdal Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:46:00 - [69] Originally by: Selnix Thought the cap use and scram range bonuses were to make interceptors better at filling their roles. Maybe whine about a ship you can actually fly next time and quit being a useless troll. I can fly dictors, and have used them in fleets. Your inability or unwillingness to see logic doesn't make me a troll, it makes you incompetent. Interceptors are meant to catch targets, Interdictors meant to stop them. An Interceptor should have speed, and an Interdictor should have stopping power. Currently on TQ, both have approximately the same speed and the Dictor has far better stopping power. The choice is a no-brainer one. After the nerf, you get some better variety. You sacrifice the ability to get to targets far away for the area-of-effect scrambling that cannot be stopped by wcs and will screw over supercapitals.
Brka Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:48:00 - [70] As a Die Hard dictor pilot you need the speed just to survive. Being able to survive is already risky at best. :P Bad again. Research groups needed on this game before your business model tanks.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:54:00 - [71] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal I can fly dictors, and have used them in fleets. Your inability or unwillingness to see logic doesn't make me a troll, it makes you incompetent. Interceptors are meant to catch targets, Interdictors meant to stop them. An Interceptor should have speed, and an Interdictor should have stopping power. Currently on TQ, both have approximately the same speed and the Dictor has far better stopping power. The choice is a no-brainer one. After the nerf, you get some better variety. You sacrifice the ability to get to targets far away for the area-of-effect scrambling that cannot be stopped by wcs and will screw over supercapitals. I really have to wonder if you've ever flown the ships. Interdictors aren't even close to the speed of interceptors. With T2 fittings and no implants (but good skills) my Heretic can't even break 5km/s, well below any decent T2 interceptor. And that's with such a high mass that I can't even hold an orbit within range of my weapons!
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:59:00 - [72] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal Oh god no, people will disagree with me on the forums and get their panties in a twist because not every buffalo wants to charge straight off the cliff. Truly, the fear has descended upon me. PS: Note the sarcasm. You were told, not my fault if others hunt you down. You have fun trying to play Eve now Sig begins here: There are not enough failure images in existence to describe Rev 3
Dangerously Cheesey GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:03:00 - [73] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Arenis Xemdal I can fly dictors, and have used them in fleets. Your inability or unwillingness to see logic doesn't make me a troll, it makes you incompetent. Interceptors are meant to catch targets, Interdictors meant to stop them. An Interceptor should have speed, and an Interdictor should have stopping power. Currently on TQ, both have approximately the same speed and the Dictor has far better stopping power. The choice is a no-brainer one. After the nerf, you get some better variety. You sacrifice the ability to get to targets far away for the area-of-effect scrambling that cannot be stopped by wcs and will screw over supercapitals. I really have to wonder if you've ever flown the ships. Interdictors aren't even close to the speed of interceptors. With T2 fittings and no implants (but good skills) my Heretic can't even break 5km/s, well below any decent T2 interceptor. And that's with such a high mass that I can't even hold an orbit within range of my weapons! QFT Gistii MWD snaked out sabres ganking low skill point taranis pilots does not mean that dictors and ceptors are the same speed or even close. Even with their current speed, ceptors can be tough to catch for dictors, whose role, besides dropping bubbles, is to be the tech 2 destroyer. HACs/Recons are already better anti-frigate ships than dictors - thats just gonna get worse if you take away any hope dictor pilots have of catching a ceptor.
WrathOfOprah Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:03:00 - [74] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal Currently on TQ, both have approximately the same speed and the Dictor has far better stopping power. The choice is a no-brainer one. What? WHAT? Get out.
Arenis Xemdal Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:11:00 - [75] Originally by: Merin Ryskin I really have to wonder if you've ever flown the ships. Interdictors aren't even close to the speed of interceptors. With T2 fittings and no implants (but good skills) my Heretic can't even break 5km/s, well below any decent T2 interceptor. And that's with such a high mass that I can't even hold an orbit within range of my weapons! And I really have to wonder which ships you're comparing, because with top skills, tech 2 mods, and no implants, my Taranis does just under 4km/s while my Eris does 3.4km/s. I specifically said they have "approximately the same speed" on TQ, and I would think less than 1km/s difference on two ships that routinely fly more than 4km/s each falls in the category of "approximate" instead of "aren't even close". If you want to talk semantics, go ahead, but maybe you should go talk to Molle, TWD, or Farjung about how many times the topic of Interceptors being worthless came up this year. And any self respecting FC would choose to have one dictor for at least every three interceptors.
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:15:00 - [76] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal my Taranis does just under 4km/s Then you did something wrong because the Taranis can hit 6-7km/s easily Sig begins here: There are not enough failure images in existence to describe Rev 3
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:18:00 - [77] Originally by: Bardi MecAuldnis Edited by: Bardi MecAuldnis on 02/11/2007 03:50:11 Ceptor changes? I was with you on that. Nos change? Even as a Curse pilot, I was with you. Drone change? Drone user who's still on your side. Now interdictors? What? Were they really that bad? The only one I have ever feared is the Sabre... No tank, check. Sig radius of a small moon, check. Big "Blast the everliving hell out of me!" sign, check. Speed for some semblance of survivability, hello? Even if the Sabre is the reason for this, let's look at it rationally. Is it made of paper? Yup. Not Vagabond "paper". I'm saying it can be one-shotted if it even thinks about slowing down. This is just.... Too tired to make a coherent argument. No, just no. This. I don't even fly dictors and I think this is a ****** nerf. In fact, CCP are making a lot of them right now. Cause you know, TDs and TCs are WAY overpowered, right? Guys? Right? Originally by:** Bardi MecAuldnis Edit: Originally by: Liang Nuren Nerf the Eris and leave the Vagabond alone... I simply don't know what to say. Liang Isn't the Vaga getting extra mids or did the drop that idea (or was I hallucinating)? I think that was a shopped pic. Also showed an Abso with 4 mids... that would have been sweet.
Arenis Xemdal Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:22:00 - [78] Originally by: Pheonix Kanan Originally by: Arenis Xemdal my Taranis does just under 4km/s Then you did something wrong because the Taranis can hit 6-7km/s easily I'm not doing anything wrong. I am simply not including low slot speed mods into the comparison, because a) they work just fine on a Dictor and b) an Eris has more low slots anyways. Sorry to ruin your one line snipe.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:24:00 - [79] Furthermore, CCP, wtf you gonna nerf all the other speed freaks? Ceptors, fastest ships in eve. Sabre/Vaga, second fastest ships in eve. Other Dictors, third fastest class of ships in eve. Ceptors, all but crow have to maintain range. Sabre/Vaga, have to be close up to do their damage. Their speed is a blessing and curse as it really screws up tracking/damage. Other Dictors, flycatcher for durability, heretic for shiny value, eris for easy replacement. All still fast enough to catch all but nano*s with snakes. Leave Dictors alone, stop touching the dicts, hit the nanos with the nerfbat, not dictors. Don't even look at changing vaga. THUKKER -Be Paranoid Skeet* Skeet L33t
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:25:00 - [80] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal Originally by: Merin Ryskin I really have to wonder if you've ever flown the ships. Interdictors aren't even close to the speed of interceptors. With T2 fittings and no implants (but good skills) my Heretic can't even break 5km/s, well below any decent T2 interceptor. And that's with such a high mass that I can't even hold an orbit within range of my weapons! And I really have to wonder which ships you're comparing, because with top skills, tech 2 mods, and no implants, my Taranis does just under 4km/s while my Eris does 3.4km/s. I specifically said they have "approximately the same speed" on TQ, and I would think less than 1km/s difference on two ships that routinely fly more than 4km/s each falls in the category of "approximate" instead of "aren't even close". I don't fly Gallente ships, but a quick EFT setup shows a max-skill Taranis (no implants, rigs, or gang bonuses on either) at 6273 m/s, compared to 4841 for the Heretic. Especially with the upcoming role bonus to warp disruptor cap use, you have no reason to fit anything but speed mods in your lows. So that's a 1400m/s speed difference, not even counting the massive difference in agility. Interceptors can hold a full-speed orbit easily, where interdictors either have to slow down considerably, or bounce out to a much longer range. My Heretic is limited to under 4km/s if I want to stay within rocket range, and even then I have a hard time keeping it tight enough. Quote: If you want to talk semantics, go ahead, but maybe you should go talk to Molle, TWD, or Farjung about how many times the topic of Interceptors being worthless came up this year. And any self respecting FC would choose to have one dictor for at least every three interceptors. Your point? Even by this statement, you have interceptors to interdictors in a 3:1 ratio. How can the interdictor possibly be overpowered when you want 3x as many of the competition?
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:29:00 - [81] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal I'm not doing anything wrong. I am simply not including low slot speed mods into the comparison, because a) they work just fine on a Dictor and b) an Eris has more low slots anyways. Sorry to ruin your one line snipe. Ceptors are supposed to go fast. They don't have a tank. So what do you put on them if not speed mods? Ask people who fly them, you put speed mods in the ceptor's lows. That's why you see ceptors going 20km/s and not 3. Sig begins here: There are not enough failure images in existence to describe Rev 3
Arenis Xemdal Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:31:00 - [82] I get 3963m/s in EFT for Taranis, 3036m/s for Eris, see post #82 for why you're wrong.
G Mooo Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:36:00 - [83] As a proud dictor pilot (recently got into sabre/heretic recently this is totally unnecessary. I fly my dictors and i have a lot of fun doing it, more dps than a ceptor (yes, i do get tired of placing last on every KM, if i even make it) and i do get in web range, etc. Whatever, as long as its fun, right? But once they nerf the speed... there is simply no point, once you're webbed you won't have enough momentum to get away, period the end. I get in web range, get webbed, use momentum to get out all the time, sometimes at low shield, remove that speed, you're toast. Now dictors truly will be disposable bubble launchers... useless for small gangs cause they will be primaried and killed, useless for fleet engagements because you will never load the grid before you are primaried and killed.
MrRx7 Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:54:00 - [84] Wow, once again, I am having a hard time coming up with a reason to pay for this crap. I finally get the training for the sabre finshed all of 2 weeks ago....since they nerfed my curse and pilgrim...and what does ccp do..They nerf my next ship of choice...the sabre and other dictors.. Why do I pay 19$ or whatever per month for this crap. and no you cant has meh stuff, I dont have any
EadTaes Minmatar Veni Vidi Vici. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:54:00 - [85] OH ***** GOD OH LORD OH MIGHTY!!!!!!!!!! CCP WILL YOU *** CRUSSIFY THE *** LETS NERF THIS AND LETS NERF THAT GUY ONT HE PUBLIC SQUARE ALREADY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Dictors already have only 1, ONE, UNO life line and that is their speed period. They can tank for absolute ** and they sure as hell won't get any remote support in time no way in hell they'll be dead 10 times over before a logistic can even lock them. You slow them down you kill them because they just wont survive long enough anymore. If your not gonna execute the moron that keeps suggesting nerfs then at least have the curtsy to fire him please. Think creatively and not nerfly. You already putting in recon frigate which the minmatar one will have a web bonus. And the heavy dictor who will slow everything down. And already i can already use those 2 ships to counter dictors. So leave them alone. 0.0 Policing, Econnomic Control & NPC Agents
Susitna Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:59:00 - [86] No please. I have been playing a year and I am some what specialized in the interdictor class. I can fly both the flycatcher and the Sabre. While the Sabre could be considered a bit too fast the flycatcher is not. Slowing these ships down will make them bigger coffins than they already are. If the purpose of your tweak is to define the roles between interceptor and inderdictor, then buff the interceptor make them a bit faster. If you want to look at problems look at the stacking of implants and rigs that make plain silly speeds achievable. But please don't nerf the entire destroyer interdictor class. As a fairly new player, I am now getting very concerned about the long term stability in this game. Players spend many weeks training for ships and skills and changes should only happen IMHO if something is truly and obviously overpowered. The nerfs should also come fast when it becomes clear something is overpowered. Please drop this change. It is a bad one. I agreed with you on the Drone bandwidth change, was with you on the nos nerfs. Changed that did effect ships I pilot on a differnt account. This change boggles me though.
Krissie Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 05:06:00 - [87] MORE NERFS MORE NERFS, WE NEED MORE NERFS DAMN IT, THIS JUST ISN'T ENOUGH, MORE MORE MORE! NERF THE IBIS, FUXD UP LEET IBIS IS NEXT, GET THE NERF BATS!!!!! TO THE NERF CAVE BATMAN!
Evange	Posted - 2007.11.02 05:07:00 - [88] Im starting to think that they're putting in random nerfs just for the lolz.
Dangerously Cheesey GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 05:16:00 - [89] If CCP is concerned about dictors replacing interceptors, they should at least wait for the interceptor buff to go through. Getting a huge cap role bonus and extra scram range should make ceptors a more viable role in fleets. Yes, there are people who use the sabre like its a heavy claw with a bubble and yes, thats probably a little excessive. Trim at most 35-40m/s off the sabre then - God knows the other dictors don't need a nerf.
Selnix Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 05:38:00 - [90] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal And I really have to wonder which ships you're comparing, because with top skills, tech 2 mods, and no implants, my Taranis does just under 4km/s while my Eris does 3.4km/s. I specifically said they have "approximately the same speed" on TQ, and I would think less than 1km/s difference on two ships that routinely fly more than 4km/s each falls in the category of "approximate" instead of "aren't even close". Originally by: Arenis Xemdal Originally by: Pheonix Kanan Originally by: Arenis Xemdal my Taranis does just under 4km/s Then you did something wrong because the Taranis can hit 6-7km/s easily I'm not doing anything wrong. I am simply not including low slot speed mods into the comparison, because a) they work just fine on a Dictor and b) an Eris has more low slots anyways. Sorry to ruin your one line snipe. So what were those Tech 2 Mods then? Unrigged Post-nerf Eris with Accel IV and Nav V goes 3939m/s, with a tech II speed kit. Taranis does 6211m/s. Ares does 7312m/s. Crusader does 7603m/s. Malediction does 6716m/s. Thank you for trying to prove your point using the slowest interceptor and second fastest interdictor. Regardless, the intys are still at least 30% faster than the post-nerf Eris so how is it supposed to catch, kill or even annoy them? Also with useless (fight inside of web range) ammunition, the top speed of a Heretic has been reduced to 3596m/s or roughly half the speed of the average interceptor. With ammunition that keeps you near a safer distance, that velocity is further reduced to 2252m/s or roughly 1/3 of the velocity of your average interceptor. The Flycatcher may actually be able to outrun the Heretic now if it refrains from using Precision light missiles or long range rockets. To help put all of that in perspective, a prorator (industrial) can go 3210m/s in a simple T2 speed kit. The only implant in the test was a 3% to MWD hardwiring that was in for all of the tests, thus keeping them on even ground. (didn't remember having one last mirror)
Ilvan	Posted - 2007.11.02 05:40:00 - [91] Originally by: Evange Im starting to think that they're putting in random nerfs just for the lolz. I think this is their revenge on the world for Iceland's long, dark winters.
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 05:43:00 - [92] I hate dictors and I support this nerf. Well done, CCP! Forsch Defender of the empire
Jagerin Gallente AB INITO	Posted - 2007.11.02 05:53:00 - [93] Very "nice" nerf, thanks CCP. I even know people which will stop playing if this nerf will be on TQ Dictors are fine, don't nerf them. Better reduce vaga's speed a bit, and everything will be fine. And instead of nerfing speed tanks why not just make them official? They are already inseparable part of EVE.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 06:08:00 - [94] Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 02/11/2007 06:10:27 nerf vaga? lolz. nothing like going so fast your 220 II ac's won't hit anything and you will run out of cap mwd'ing the whole time. Nerf Snakes... mwd cap reduction and smuggling bonus. Dictors on SISI are like speed fit AF's on TQ. Just slightly faster, but so much easier to hit it's sick. THUKKER -Be Paranoid Skeet Skeet L33t
Moraguth Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.02 06:11:00 - [95] Wow. So, i just checked my character sheet. Yup, over 18M points in spaceship command. I figure, hey, that's gotta be good right? More and more, day after day, I'm able to fly less and less. <3 CCP I don't have to think any more! good game
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2007.11.02 06:20:00 - [96] Originally by: Jagerin And instead of nerfing speed tanks why not just make them official? They are already inseparable part of EVE. I thought they were official; if they weren't meant to be, tracking rates would have never been put it, right? Problem is, people say speed tanks are overpowered as they also allow the pilot to escape unfavorable combat. True, but they are also horribly unforgiving. Normal tank: switch on your hardeners and you're set. Speed tank: Watch your transversal, stay out of web range, manual orbit into optimal, don't bump into gate/'roid/station, hope grid loads fast enough for you to engage MWD before getting popped, etc.. BTW, this thread is now about speedtanks. Also, if you nerf dictors, the price needs a nerf to go with it, they already cost near an order of magnitude above an inty (for a sabre and assuming you pimp it out).
Aenis Veros Caldari Alphaflight	Posted - 2007.11.02 06:30:00 - [97] I'll live. It's a different EVE, not necessarily worse.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 06:40:00 - [98] Sabre is now just a faster jag. Jag with 3 200mm AC II, mwd, web, scram, med extender II, odj II, nano II, iSTab II (manueverability) with polycarb 1, anti-kin screen vs Sabre with mwd, web, scram, med extender II Sabre is just a faster jag and will die to it. jagerin had 2 med ext II's fit, mwd, web, odj, istab, 2 polycarbs and 7x125mm so I lost, but fun fight. both used barrage. THUKKER -Be Paranoid Skeet Skeet L33t
Moraguth Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.02 06:44:00 - [99] Originally by: Brea Lafail Originally by: Jagerin And instead of nerfing speed tanks why not just make them official? They are already inseparable part of EVE. I thought they were official; if they weren't meant to be, tracking rates would have never been put it, right? Problem is, people say speed tanks are overpowered as they also allow the pilot to escape unfavorable combat. True, but they are also horribly unforgiving. Normal tank: switch on your hardeners and you're set. Speed tank: Watch your transversal, stay out of web range, manual orbit into optimal, don't bump into gate/'roid/station, hope grid loads fast enough for you to engage MWD before getting popped, etc.. BTW, this thread is now about speedtanks. Also, if you nerf dictors, the price needs a nerf to go with it, they already cost near an order of magnitude above an inty (for a sabre and assuming you pimp it out). Speed tanks are overpowered because of this. Let's say you got all those things you requested, you can now effectively speed tank an infinite number of ships. If you stay out of the range of enough webbers, you're good. If someone looks to be as fast as you, you just run away. Now let's look at armor, shield, and hull tanks (real men hull tank!). You activate your modules, maybe get a bud (or a carrier if he's not RSD'd to death) to remote rep you too. Hmmm..... you can tank up to X number of people (really up to x dps, but whatever). once you try to tank more than that, you have to hope you're not warp scrambled because you'll pop. infinity vs x. infinity seems to win every time. yes, i know the speed tank has it's downside, but it's upside is FAR too powerful and unballanced. good game
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.02 07:03:00 - [100] Originally by: Moraguth Speed tanks are overpowered because of this. Let's say you got all those things you requested, you can now effectively speed tank an infinite number of ships. If you stay out of the range of enough webbers, you're good. If someone looks to be as fast as you, you just run away. Now let's look at armor, shield, and hull tanks (real men hull tank!). You activate your modules, maybe get a bud (or a carrier if he's not RSD'd to death) to remote rep you too. Hmmm..... you can tank up to X number of people (really up to x dps, but whatever). once you try to tank more than that, you have to hope you're not warp scrambled because you'll pop. infinity vs x. infinity seems to win every time. yes, i know the speed tank has it's downside, but it's upside is FAR too powerful and unballanced. Sure, but if there's a problem with speed tanks, nerf all speed tanks. Don't cherry pick a random ship class and nerf it for no apparent reason. There's no reason for this nerf. It's stupid, unnecessary, and infuriating. Not quite as infuriating as the brilliance that is the freighter nerf though. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Sen Xia GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 07:17:00 - [101] This is really just too bad. It is already hard enough to fly and interdictor as I am always getting popped in a fleet engagement. 1/5 fights I might make it long enough to drop a second bubble, but I guess this figure is going to get even lower. I just dont understand how a ship that is always getting killed is seen as unbalanced.
Yukisa	Posted - 2007.11.02 07:20:00 - [102] Again, the problem with the eve game mechanic design is that small ships have only ONE defense against larger ships or those at long range. That's speed. It should not be this way. In real life small ships use evasive maneuvers to avoid large gun bombardment not pure speed as a large carrier often goes as fast as a frigate. But being so large and lumbering its an easy target for large guns to bombard. CCP have the mechanic in place. Turret sig resolution versus target sig radius. This could be the major equalizer. Think about it, large turrets SHOULD have an inbuilt accuracy penalty versus smaller targets to simulate evasive flying. So you have a BS with a 400m resolution gun targeting a 40m sig frigate, it should have a 10% chance to hit (40/400) the frig if its is within tracking limits. This way any small ship doesn't need to go stupidly fast to survive. In fact, it will encourage the use of AB since it doesn't give a sig penalty like MWD. This kind of change would encourage mixed fleet composition and prevent the need for small ships to push the speed limit to a point where its ridiculous, like 22km/s crows or 9.6km/s sabres. That kind of speed is detrimental to the server as well and multiplies the lag problem tenfolds. It should not be as it is now, go all out speed and become immune to everything except for minnie recons, then get nerfed to uselessness. The game mechanics need to be smarter. What are all your thoughts on this issue?
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.02 07:23:00 - [103] Originally by: Yukisa It should not be as it is now, go all out speed and become immune to everything except for minnie recons, then get nerfed to uselessness. The game mechanics need to be smarter. What are all your thoughts on this issue? If they're going to nerf speed, they'll have to do it intelligently. Nerfing one not even overpowered ship class is simply ludicrous. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Vort X EON Order Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.11.02 07:24:00 - [104] Eris was really overpowered it certainly needed a nerf
Pinpisa Jormao	Posted - 2007.11.02 07:28:00 - [105] As long as they also make the dictor bubbles effective even after the victim is already mid-warp or close to coming out of it, then I'm fine with this. Though hit points should be also increased for a bit more fleet survivability or like the Church guy said, make larger long range guns less accurate in hitting smaller ships at range.
Gmoorick R.u.S.H. Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 07:48:00 - [106] wtf ??? Creating Hyena with 20km webs is not enought to nerf speedy ships ????
Sorcerror Minmatar Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 08:23:00 - [107] This nerf is worst nerf i ever seen during time i playing internet spaceships games
FamersUsedTo BeatUs	Posted - 2007.11.02 08:45:00 - [108] lol at all the goons whine. sabre was in need of a nerf and so is vaga. I think EVE needs more people who will commit to a fight instead of just gank people and avoid fighting anyone but when most favorable. I just hope CCP grow spines and keep the changes. Slug fests are fun too ya know
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.02 08:56:00 - [109] I can see why CCP wants to nerf dictor speeds. And instead of focusing on trying to reverse that, maybe we could offer some thoughts as to how to make interdictors still viable after a speed nerf. My first thought would be to increase tracking and optimal range bonuses for interdictors to still enable them to take on interceptors (even if they are not able to catch them, being able to shoot even the fastest interceptors at 60-100km range with some success would be a good replacement). Or maybe we should push for a decrease in sigradius and an increase in resists or shields/armor? I know it won't keep them alive in a situation where everyone is shooting them, but then again, no ship should survive that. ------------------------------------------------
Sorcerror Minmatar Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 08:56:00 - [110] Originally by: FamersUsedTo BeatUs lol at all the goons whine. sabre was in need of a nerf and so is vaga. I think EVE needs more people who will commit to a fight instead of just gank people and avoid fighting anyone but when most favorable. I just hope CCP grow spines and keep the changes. Slug fests are fun too ya know this guy need more love
Ferocitana	Posted - 2007.11.02 08:59:00 - [111] Originally by: Susitna .. If you want to look at problems look at the stacking of implants and rigs that make plain silly speeds achievable. But please don't nerf the entire destroyer interdictor class. .. /sign
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 09:01:00 - [112] This change seems unwarrented, and heck I dont even fly a dictor! Is this just to make the heavy dictor more attractive? CCP should reconsider. C. Piratise Low Sec! or Eve on Hard Mode (idea)
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.02 09:04:00 - [113] Thank god, finally the Eris is getting what it deserves, it was way too good in the only role it was suited for. A salvager.
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 09:33:00 - [114] Edited by: Dristra on 02/11/2007 09:34:07 WTF, all my dark propecies are coming to fruit! I have been joking about CCP's nerf spree lately, where stuff CAN'T BE BUFFED, but to actually see it... Edit: typo, bad sentence It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Pattern Clarc Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.02 09:34:00 - [115] Guys, Guys... follow the link on my sig... read and sign. "Now follow this link to enlightenment"
Iva Soreass FireStar Inc	Posted - 2007.11.02 09:51:00 - [116] Why do i get the distinct feeling this all seems to familiar..... */me starts thinking what does it remind me of* Thats it S W G when soe went CRAZY just like CCP are and started whacking everything with the Big Bad Nerf Bat. Then we all know what happend after that huh, yep SWG crumbled faster then tottenhams defense. Seriously getting worried about the trend you devs seem to be doing. [20:03:51] Ciprian > no pls i have snakes www.firestar-online.com
katz3 PPN United Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.02 10:00:00 - [117] Worst nerf ever. ___________________
Norris Packard Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 10:02:00 - [118] dictors are fine, reset them to how they were before you hit them with the nerf bat and move on to ships that are truely broken.
Gor Kraon Minmatar Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 10:03:00 - [119] Maybe they did it because speed lags their servers up and this is the only way to fix it? Finish the fix, nerf all ship speeds by 25% and tracking by 25%. Less lag ftw! Another 2 of my toys broken...
Nomispanco Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.02 10:28:00 - [120] 2007 is the Year of the masse nerfage Whats will be the next nerf ! -/ Nomispanco /- !!! Protest Brothers !!!
DTee 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.02 10:36:00 - [121] I have been finding myself mor eand more bored with EVE. EVE has gone from relatively small 30 vs 30 to other fight sit has become increasingly more difficult to get fights. I am not sure what has brough about these changes but it seems that it has been several things. I have been bored to a point where I dont see myself having any reason to login other then speaking to friends and the odd pvp fight. Some of the reasons I highlighted in my rant on teamspeak last night were Interdict ors. Interdictors : They have among other ships made eve worse. I truly think they have deminished the game play of eve since you can no longer be a solo ganker or play by yourself because all it takes is 1 interdictor and a recon to dampen and web you. AFter that point you are pretty much dead. Interdictors that were paticularly overpowered were the sabre, I have no idea what gave ccp the idea to give it the speed which matches interceptors yet no down sides to that speed. You see less and less people flying interceotprs and more interceptors (I trained it myself) I no longer see the need to fly a crow when i can fly a sabre. Interdictors have also encouraged the use of nano gangs. Making it pretty impossible to be able to take a gang of battleships out (a small gang) with 3 - 4 bses and have them survive the whole way back. All it takes is 1 interdictor to block your parth and your pretty much screwed. Nanos: They need to be looked at. They have made minmatar one of the btter races to fly at the expense of what?! shooting and running away? (I am guilty of using these too but what cna you do when you would die in any other ship other then a nano ship) Capitals: Last night we were setting up for a fight. HUN roloaded had 25 pilots (not accurate) in nano ships we were in approx 10 bs total there were 15 of us. They refused to engage us because we may jump in motherships/titans. I feel that capitals overall have had a very negative affect on the gate. (We are guilty of htis too) but anywhere you go with a substancial gang of battleships you get caps thrown at you Caldari: I am not an overall whiner or baby but there aren't many caldari ships suited for pvp, speed or anything else which is of use. (Granted Gallente are getting nerfed) I still dont see a reason NOT to train gallente. I see myself brining problem sot the table with very few solutions, which is excatly what I am doing. I miss the eve of 2005 when fight sof 30 vs 30 were what made eve eve, where 10 km/s dictor didn't catch anytihng that moved, where sniping bs's could have real fun.
Johan Quinn	Posted - 2007.11.02 10:56:00 - [122] I don't really comment on here, but this change has kinda ****ed me off. Being an Inty/dictor pilot myself i love the new inty changes, they actually make them useful, specially ships such as the Crusader and Taranis which have the biggest cap problems. The speed changes wouldn't be that bad if they reduce other ships accordingly. Yesterday I saw outbreak slepnirs going around 2500ms and above, more than enough to catch the flycatcher in its conifg on SISI. This is a joke really. Ceptors should be the fastest ships in the game period, then dictors, Cruisers, blah blah. Its a joke that an AF can be outrun by a friggin cruiser to start with! The vaga is a unique case really. I used to hate them but tbh they dont normally fit webs, so in a ranis i can often get close, web, orbit at 500m and not get hit etc etc. That said they should not be able to reach a Interceptor speed really. At the moment a Vaga can be aheavy interceptor, why cant a dictor. This speed change would not be too bad IF they sort everything else out at the same time. If they insist on making dictors slower then surely they should lower the sig radius (look at the models they nowhere near the size of cruisers) and give a HP point buff. I thnik they should have similar HP to AF's, maybe more but without all the resists.
DTee 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.02 10:59:00 - [123] Originally by: Johan Quinn I don't really comment on here, but this change has kinda ****ed me off. Being an Inty/dictor pilot myself i love the new inty changes, they actually make them useful, specially ships such as the Crusader and Taranis which have the biggest cap problems. The speed changes wouldn't be that bad if they reduce other ships accordingly. Yesterday I saw outbreak slepnirs going around 2500ms and above, more than enough to catch the flycatcher in its conifg on SISI. This is a joke really. Ceptors should be the fastest ships in the game period, then dictors, Cruisers, blah blah. Its a joke that an AF can be outrun by a friggin cruiser to start with! The vaga is a unique case really. I used to hate them but tbh they dont normally fit webs, so in a ranis i can often get close, web, orbit at 500m and not get hit etc etc. That said they should not be able to reach a Interceptor speed really. At the moment a Vaga can be aheavy interceptor, why cant a dictor. This speed change would not be too bad IF they sort everything else out at the same time. If they insist on making dictors slower then surely they should lower the sig radius (look at the models they nowhere near the size of cruisers) and give a HP point buff. I thnik they should have similar HP to AF's, maybe more but without all the resists. I agree with you completely. Those CS's should have to nano to avoid Interdictor bubbles. Interdictors suck :( I dont fly a commandships right now btw.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 11:01:00 - [124] EVE creator lost a bet to the WOW, SWG, UO, and MO creators and now has to make EVE **tier than their pos games. Seriously, drug test your employees. This nerf smells of ass. snake implants are the problem. ceptors, dictors and vagabonds without them aren't a problem. THUKKER -Be Paranoid Skeet** Skeet L33t
Skiving Larry	Posted - 2007.11.02 11:02:00 - [125] Edited by: Skiving Larry on 02/11/2007 11:02:02 Dev1 "They don't seem to like my heavy dictors on the forum" Dev2 "Why's that?" Dev1 "They say they're to slow, they say they'll just keep using to normal interdictor" Dev2 "We'll soon sort that out...fetch the nerf bat?"
Ab Tallen The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.02 11:28:00 - [126] Edited by: Ab Tallen on 02/11/2007 11:31:16 Even as a 'dictor pilot, I'm not particularly concerned about this nerf. But overall I'm unsure if CCP is taking the right direction here - we get an ever more complex bonus system which leads to overpowered specializations. Lowering the base stats of affected ships can't be the right answer to that, at least not in the long run. (faction modules, rigs, skills, implants, boosters, overheating, gang bonuses, ...) I think the bonus system should be stabilized and balanced before introducing even more options.
Antskyeeh Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.02 11:46:00 - [127] This just seems like a bunch of devs sitting around, wondering what to do for kicks. "Slow day Bob?" ... "Why yes" ... "You want to make the forum nerds whine?" ... "Lol I love the night shift" Get you **** together CCP, kthxbye
Daibutsu	Posted - 2007.11.02 12:20:00 - [128] nerf solo make blob! no rly WTF ??? /me go ty BETA-Test Age of Conan
Icarus Starkiller Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.02 12:30:00 - [129] Edited by: Icarus Starkiller on 02/11/2007 12:34:25 Originally by: Pheonix Kanan Edited by: Pheonix Kanan on 02/11/2007 03:28:33 REV 3 IS THE BIGGEST FAILURE EVER QFT, and funny vid. Dictor nerf Carrier nerf Freighter nerf (thank god and a long time needed) Drone nerf 1 Useful new ship (Hyena), all others useless. ... Electronic Superiority Frigs - pointless (Esp the Keres, as an Ares already gets its bonuses). ... Heavy Interdictors - worse sitting ducks than their smaller kin. ... Maruaders - only against your wallet. ... Black Ops - Ugh? Why not fly a Rattlesnake into enemy territory... solo. It'd be cheaper. ... Jump Freighters - Fabulous, if you have more money than god. Oh... but shiny new graphics. - Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something.
bulabuba Gallente Klima Galactic	Posted - 2007.11.02 12:41:00 - [130] It's funny, just yesterday I was doing 1v1s against an alliance mate flying a crow in my sabre. They were interesting close fights. I was winning probably due mostly to a bit more SP and the right fit, I think (150s instead of 200s, etc). We were both t2 fit, no speed implants, no polycarbs, and it seemed well balanced. Now, if either of us had been sporting snakes and/or polycarbs and the other was not, it probably would have been a different fight. So, I don't get this change at all. Are they basing it on anecdotal descriptions of fights between a sabre setup that costs 3b (including implants) against a T2 inty? If so, maybe where they need to swing the nerf bat is in the direction of how much extra ability you can buy with a billion isk. The only other reasoning that I can come up with is that they are trying to further narrow the interdictor's role, and make it only good for launching bubbles. With this change I don't see it holding it's own against any other T2 ship class, or even some well fit T1 Cruisers. I think CCP needs to recognize that conceptually, very specialized, narrow combat roles make sense, but in practice, a ship with such a narrow role becomes a snoozer to fly, especially if your corp isn't involved in daily fleet action. It seems like the direction they are taking is to remove versatility and soloing ability wherever they find it. ----------------------------------------------- Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again? No. -DB Preacher[BoB]
Viashivan Amarr FM Corp Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.11.02 12:57:00 - [131] I posted my assumtion already here but as this thread seems the place to go, I will crosspost myself: It looks like they are having a look a the speed of t2 ships, starting from the smalest ones upwards to the larger ones. They had a look at the interceptors first and changed bonuses. Next step are the interdictors and their speed. My guess is, that HACs and recons come next. I think they will have a look at commandships after that. When they have done this, they will have a look at staking penalties of polycarbon rigs and slave-sets. I think their plan is to get the speed back to a level inside game-mechanics. Meaning that nano-ships have at least chance, even if it is a low chance, to be hit by cruise-missiles and turrets with a high tracking speed. If they do it this way, I actually think that this will be a good change.
bochka piva	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:00:00 - [132] What do you do CCP? For (from the beginning of input kali) some time past I am visited by ideas that you quite lost reason. 1. nerf ammo and strengthening of tank (as a result of solo flights almost die) 2. nerf nosferatu. (as a result yet part of ships disappears as a class of solo ships) 3. Input in the game of new class ships (electronic frigate. kaldari frigate jumming as rook???) 4. nerf of dictors. (it 1 from the last solo-ships in a game) nethertheless machariel can fly 9000 m/s. what balance are you talcking about??? is it a game for karebirs??? so let us clean 00 and everywhere there will be an empire. I hope that you will take on work a thinking man by a brain, instead of other places. sorry for my poor engish.
boobookittywhat Wise Guys Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:11:00 - [133] CCP NO
Morris Falter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:13:00 - [134] Look - this is getting very ridiculous. We've got a very clear skill progression in eve - not just in SP but in tactics and gang / skirmishing warfare. Skillpoints will not - WILL NOT - keep you alive in a skirmish if your tactics are crap. We're entering a stage with the game where ships are being nerfed because people are: 1. lazy 2. stupid 3. unimaginative 4. uncreative 5. unable to communicate 6. cowards 7. boring 8. etc etc etc Why is the game being broken for people playing as hard as they can, working on setups, working on resources to afford them, working on gang tactics to make it effective? If the end game is for everyone to be exactly the same in all situations, with no upper hand, no advantage due to your own intelligence or experience, or hours spent working on how to get the absolute most from a setup, ship, or situation, then what the hell is the point? If people are stupid, they should die - if they fail to learn from this, than that is their problem, and not a reason to get the nerf bat out. Last night on singularity, we had a set of mock skirmishing engagements between RA and AAA - was fantastic fun, a titan and motherships were involved. I wonder if the CCP dev team have ever seen or been involved in this kind of thing, or seen a group of 100 or so skilled players really really going at it.. I don't want to get into a discussion of devs inside alliances (dont care, think as long as its unknown and they do not pee in the sand box as has been well documented, its a good thing) - but truly, if you had seen the way that skilled players cope with these established and balanced mechanics, then this nerf, along with all the other frankly stunning changes, would be seen in a different way. Its getting beyond the stage where you have to keep quiet, and you have to ram it into their throats - save the game, save your fun, say no to lowest common denominator pvp. That's all I have on this, from a 2004 player with two accounts.
Zhaine B e l l u m	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:21:00 - [135] OMFG PANIC THE SKIES IS FALLING. No. Still, stupid and unnecessary change, hope it doesn't go through.
KnightStar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.02 14:03:00 - [136] Originally by: Morris Falter Last night on singularity, we had a set of mock skirmishing engagements between RA and AAA - was fantastic fun, a titan and motherships were involved. I wonder if the CCP dev team have ever seen or been involved in this kind of thing, or seen a group of 100 or so skilled players really really going at it.. I don't want to get into a discussion of devs inside alliances (dont care, think as long as its unknown and they do not pee in the sand box as has been well documented, its a good thing) - but truly, if you had seen the way that skilled players cope with these established and balanced mechanics, then this nerf, along with all the other frankly stunning changes, would be seen in a different way. Maybe we should invite CCP DEV Team next time... Btw. No Lag with 100 ppl in local, fighters/drones/supercaps involved.
Donald Trump Minmatar Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.02 14:35:00 - [137] Edited by: Donald Trump on 02/11/2007 14:36:41 Originally by: Morris Falter Look - this is getting very ridiculous. 1. lazy 2. stupid 3. unimaginative 4. uncreative 5. unable to communicate (Turn on your mwd!) 6. cowards 7. boring 8. etc etc etc You just summed up nanoships, well done. This is a problem everyone who doesnt fly them whine about, you shouldnt need to go 3k++ to have a chance at pvp. Im baised in the other direction myself really, I got 2 snake sets, fly sabres alot, nanoships... the lot, but lately ive flown bigger ships in deep 0.0, and thats actually more of a challenge and fun if you make it work. The reasoning behind going after dictors is that ALOT of people fly em, in the start there was just a few specialized dictorpilots around, now theyre everywhere... and when everyone flies something that goes easily 4k+ without any real chance of loosing (t2 heretic for an example) some assets/isk, it causes unbalance. When you got fast dictors, you need fast cruisers to get away from the dictors... and it all speeds up. Vagabonds pushing 6k here and there, sabres going 8k, everything else getting ewared up to get time to get away from the nanoships that approach so fast... its a bad circle. If hacs went like 2-3k on default, dictors around 3k... ceptors a little faster.. you would see battleship gangs up for a fight coming out more often, because now you got very destinct lines... Nano or not nano, instead there should be cruisers going a little faster than BCs, BS little slower than BCs etc. to narrow this massive difference. I still hope that my minmatar way of flying quick will be possible, but no doubt I will have to pay more isk to get to same speeds for my ships. Risk vs reward. Buckle up vagabonds, eve is warping somewhere new (and hopefully better) at record speeds.
Vanna Nina	Posted - 2007.11.02 15:06:00 - [138] LOL Eris: Old Primary Role: Salvager Eris: New Primary Role: Salvage Now the t2 rig shortage is over. Rejoice one and all.
Qumu Incognito Inc	Posted - 2007.11.02 15:48:00 - [139] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Selnix Additionally, much like their destroyer-class progenitors, they are well-suited to offensive strikes against frigate-sized craft. So what frigate sized craft would those be? Covert Ops frigates? Nope... they're already cloaked. Stealth bombers? Nope... they shouldn't be stupid enough to decloak. Assault Frigates? Nope, they will tank you long enough to kill you now that you are slow as ** and have the signature radius of a cruiser. Interceptors? Hell no, they're already 100km away. What was that? Oh... just the sound of the Stabber pilot laughing as their tech 1 cruiser and 60 days of skills run away from your maxxed out Nav skills and months of interdictor training. And while this is still a hard kick in the teeth for Sabre pilots, it is a really really hard kick in the nuts to Heretic and Flycatcher pilots. Now we have ships that can not tank, can not speed tank effectively, get called primary on a regular basis, can not escape from interceptors or have any hope of killing them, and most of all, can not use tech II ammo. Granted, if you want to have a -10% x 6 penalty to capacitor recharge rate you can still use rage rockets or fury light missiles, but you might as well forget about fitting a warp disruptor and a MWD on the ship with that ammo. Using the other Tech II ammo is laughable, as the -7.5% x 6 penalty to max velocity will slow you down enough that you will be getting outrun by pretty much anything smaller than a battlecruiser. As for the Eris pilots out there, you were already getting the shaft and now they're just taking away the lube... So what was it that was supposed to be all cool about Revelations III? Oh yeah... some new ship types that they decided noone will want to fly because they really aren't all that special after all. Maybe if we nerf the ones they like to fly into oblivion they'll see the light and use the new ones that are still just a shadow of the old. Hell, the module-based interdiction sphere doesn't even pull people out of warp, what a great improvement that is. QFT QFT Quote: REV 3 IS THE BIGGEST FAILURE EVER QFT I cannot believe the amount of STUPIDITY** CCP has displayed the last couple weeks. Its as if they are truley trying to fail as hard as possible. Kudos. ::[Incognito...reminding the universe that we are not blue to them, one kill at a time.]::
Moraguth Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.02 15:48:00 - [140] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Moraguth Speed tanks are overpowered because of this. Let's say you got all those things you requested, you can now effectively speed tank an infinite number of ships. If you stay out of the range of enough webbers, you're good. If someone looks to be as fast as you, you just run away. Now let's look at armor, shield, and hull tanks (real men hull tank!). You activate your modules, maybe get a bud (or a carrier if he's not RSD'd to death) to remote rep you too. Hmmm..... you can tank up to X number of people (really up to x dps, but whatever). once you try to tank more than that, you have to hope you're not warp scrambled because you'll pop. infinity vs x. infinity seems to win every time. yes, i know the speed tank has it's downside, but it's upside is FAR too powerful and unballanced. Sure, but if there's a problem with speed tanks, nerf all speed tanks. Don't cherry pick a random ship class and nerf it for no apparent reason. There's no reason for this nerf. It's stupid, unnecessary, and infuriating. Not quite as infuriating as the brilliance that is the freighter nerf though. Liang I agree with you. good game
Monticore D'Muertos Caldari United Society Starfleet Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.11.02 15:57:00 - [141] you need rogues, rigs just to make a sabre survivable 70m isk ship with 100mill implants , hoping you don't get insta popped as you load grid, i get primaried 99% of engagements and warp out in armor/hull alot . i didn't see anybody calling for a nerf to these , i was hoping they would make eris/catcher/heretic faster acutally. sad, very sad
LiMu Bai RIMTECH Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 15:59:00 - [142] Originally by: DTee I miss the eve of 2005 when fight sof 30 vs 30 were what made eve eve, where 10 km/s dictor didn't catch anytihng that moved, where sniping bs's could have real fun. This overall has encouraged for people to fly around in big nano gangs forming the cancer that is now engulfing eve. Nano fitted players ganking and running away. /signed In our part of the eve galaxy pvp mainly consists of (cloaking) nanogangs which do everything to avoid a fair fight. Vagas, Ishtars, Sabres and certain other minmatar recons....we know them all. They just want to kill low skilled players, ratters, haulers and other targets of opportunity with less or no risk to take any kind of damage. Im completly tired of fighting this kind of gangs. Usually they just shoot some brave tacklers ond then they MWD away....thats frustrating...there are simply no fights with them. Well there are ways to get at least a few of them, but its still very unlikely to get one. Usually theyre playing around with ceptors sent to tackle them and laugh at conventional gangs. And not always Minmatar recons are aviable. So I hope this dictornerf its the beginning of an general speed-adjustment. There must be a bigger difference in topspeeds along the ship-classes. Frigates should be fast. Cruiser sized Destroyers shouldnt be. Is it really neccessary that a HEAVY assault cruiser like the Vagabond warps faster than a shuttle? Ist it useful that a ship like this can be as fast as a t2 fittet interceptor? Stop nanos and you stop carebear pvp. Capital spams vs BS roaming gangs....well thats another nasty problem, but I already wrote too much, I guess :) If you find some misspellings and wrong grammar....keep it!
EadTaes Minmatar Veni Vidi Vici. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 16:30:00 - [143] God if you going to take away a ships current only survivability attribute then you better as damn hell give it an other one. Either kill the signature radius of the ships to bring hem down to frigates. Or give them the HP and capacitor to be able to run medium sized repair moduals. 0.0 Policing, Econnomic Control & NPC Agents
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 16:39:00 - [144] ~~Eos~~ ~~Ishkur~~ ~~Myrmidon~~ ~~Archon~~ ~~Chimera~~ ~~Thanatos~~ ~~Nidhoggur~~ ~~Sabre~~ ~~Flycatcher~~ ~~Eris~~ ~~Heretic~~ 11 down... how many to go CCP? - (combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.02 16:48:00 - [145] Originally by: Dangerously Cheesey If CCP is concerned about dictors replacing interceptors, they should at least wait for the interceptor buff to go through. Getting a huge cap role bonus and extra scram range should make ceptors a more viable role in fleets. Yes, there are people who use the sabre like its a heavy claw with a bubble and yes, thats probably a little excessive. Trim at most 35-40m/s off the sabre then - God knows the other dictors don't need a nerf. first off the eris is the fastest. then the sabre, and the heretic is only 7% slower when all are speed fitted.. which is hte only way to fly them... yes.. the eris still blows... and the flycatcher is slow (but good with ewar in smal gangs) _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Archillius maximus	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:31:00 - [146] Do NOT nerf the Dictors, this is crazy. What is happening with EVE?
Dangerously Cheesey GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:35:00 - [147] Originally by: Andreya Originally by: Dangerously Cheesey If CCP is concerned about dictors replacing interceptors, they should at least wait for the interceptor buff to go through. Getting a huge cap role bonus and extra scram range should make ceptors a more viable role in fleets. Yes, there are people who use the sabre like its a heavy claw with a bubble and yes, thats probably a little excessive. Trim at most 35-40m/s off the sabre then - God knows the other dictors don't need a nerf. first off the eris is the fastest. then the sabre, and the heretic is only 7% slower when all are speed fitted.. which is hte only way to fly them... yes.. the eris still blows... and the flycatcher is slow (but good with ewar in smal gangs) The Eris is only faster if it uses all of its lows for speed.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:38:00 - [148] true, but like i said, the eris is still prety useless.. but on the same note, i use all my lows for speed on my sabre and heretic (doesnt really justify the eris's speed, in know... but in a fleet battle, that little bit more still helps you do the job) _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
The Economist	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:43:00 - [149] They're already flying coffins that need all lows dedicated to speed mods to get to a vaguely ok speed and need rigs and faction mwd to achieve decent speed.... Wtf's the point? They don't die enough for you already or something? Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn
cheffin Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:46:00 - [150] Edited by: cheffin on 02/11/2007 17:46:38 fixing stuff that is not broken is bad mmkay? another sad day for pvp'ers...
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:47:00 - [151] Its good change. Step closer to killing invulnerable_to_anything speed sabres. And no, heretic is not dead. Neither is sabre. They still fly 5km/s+ which is enough to evade BS guns but now they can be actually killed by cruisers if they dont pay enough attention. And ill still fly em... at leats it will demand some player skill now.
Rhaegor Stormborn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:54:00 - [152] Another marvelous change! Keep it up CCP. Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated [PIA] Recruitment Thread
RedhawkMillionaire GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:57:00 - [153] This in a long line of making things suck. What's next? An attempt to cripple 0.0 logistics? oh...wait
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:05:00 - [154] Edited by: Random Womble on 02/11/2007 18:05:37 T2 fits on a sabre will get about 5k which is not insanely fast certainly catchable and they die fairly often (even with their popularity their price is a testiment to this) should the few people that invest the time money to get a decent speed be punished or others that dont have that money be punished in their stead? It really does not take much to kill a dictor they are paper thin and live only on speed (fleet fights you die anyway). If you want speeds over 10k which some antidictor posters keep mentioning you need atleast 2 of four from daul polycarbs, Gist MWD, Ship with rapid deployment wf link and mindlink in gang, snake set. Other than the gang stuff, the others cost 100mil, 150mil and what is it now 2-2.5bil? on a ship that if webbed or even shot at by some ships dies very quick that is a fair chunk of isk to risk.
Zeph Solaris Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:05:00 - [155] Ugh cancels Interdictors level 5
Pac SubCom A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:06:00 - [156] Nerfs hit everybody equally. The day your carrier or 300 mil battleship survives because the enemy dictor was a second too slow you'll thank the nerf. --------------- ∞ TQFE
Evengard Solar Dragons Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:21:00 - [157] I think Devs want to destroy EVE... So there only be left chineese macro miners \ hunter. And maybe DEVs support them?? I fly dictor 95% of time, and now i must throw away ship i trained for year, all navigation @ 5 dictor lvl 5 ??? For now Sabre is abit faster than Heretic (6390 vs 6233) all @ lvl 5, T2 fit, T1 polycardons. For example Crow doing 7700 And even with this speed they getting easyly hit by sniping cruisers \ BC. So after nerf, then speed drops, noone will use rigs on this flying coffins, and implants too. So they will be popped by tons with any weapon, and be dead like class. So if this going to happend i'm doing to suspend my account, and all specialists that i trained, and now they getting nerfed and fly cruiser, or Battleship... Welcone to the destruction of EVE... Btw, me wondering how subscription will drop after Rev3 ?? 20? 30? 40% ??? ___________________ Recon and Intercept
Johan Quinn	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:32:00 - [158] The problem its not jsut the sabre that has been altered, it all of them. ATM i can use Flycatcher and an Eris. Both are now totally ****** if this goes thorugh, Flycatcher will die to anything and Eris, well it always has done. I am currently Training for a Sabre and as I always see a need for dictors I can stop cause it the only viable option now. All we shall see is the Sabre being the only dictor that is ever used due to it being able to keep some speed and get a HP buffer from a medium shield extender. To me they really need to reduce the sig radius of Dictors now, to maybe 10-20m more than frigs at most.
Zirator Times of Ancar Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:45:00 - [159] Originally by: Alski ~~Eos~~ ~~Ishkur~~ ~~Myrmidon~~ ~~Archon~~ ~~Chimera~~ ~~Thanatos~~ ~~Nidhoggur~~ ~~Sabre~~ ~~Flycatcher~~ ~~Eris~~ ~~Heretic~~ 11 down... how many to go CCP? Please add Arazu, Lachesis, Curse and Pilgrim to this list as well. The nerfbat that is swinging in the CCP offices atm is out of controll. Thanks a lot CCP for nerfing each and every ship in EVE that's fun to fly. Only hope is that the new E-war frigs will be fun. And I even just completed skilltraining for Heretic on one of my chars. So I could fly all kinds of dictors with my army of alts. :( I hope that this is still the crystall ball effect and a lot of the new "features" ( IE nerfs and other bull.... ) don't make it to TQ in their current form. Thanks a lot CCP :(
Xyleya KL0NKRIEGER	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:51:00 - [160] I'm flying a Sabre 75% of the time I'm into PvP. Thanks alot CCP As I'm thinking of it... well... make a hardcap on speed at around 250 m/sec for the whole game, as I'm sure this would be alot of fun slowboating through space .
Kublai Khan Caldari TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:55:00 - [161] Hmmmm.... Ive been calling out for a nerf of dictors. But nerfing their surviviability is just stupid, except maybe the sabre should have been made abit slower and flycatcher abit faster. The problem with the dictor isnt the ship, but the dictor bubble and that it is staying up so long. It shouldnt last that long, it should last more like 30 sec, and/or be made targetable. The only problem with is it that two three dictors can do the job that you needed 20 tacklers for in the past. Less duration of the bubble would let it stop a fleet there for a short amount of time to get other tacklers in on the targets (so they dont all just warp out before getting tackled). Then the 40 battleships at snipe position and 3-4 dictors on gate wont molest a same sized fleet jumping in.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:21:00 - [162] Originally by: Evengard I fly dictor 95% of time, and now i must throw away ship i trained for year, all navigation @ 5 dictor lvl 5 ??? Navi skills 5 + dictor5 surely doesnt take a year ... And except for dictor5 all navi skills work for other ships too. Dictor 5 is still useful: ccp didnt nerf lvl5 bonus afaik. Quote: For now Sabre is abit faster than Heretic (6390 vs 6233) all @ lvl 5, T2 fit, T1 polycardons. For example Crow doing 7700 And even with this speed they getting easyly hit by sniping cruisers \ BC. So after nerf, then speed drops, noone will use rigs on this flying coffins, and implants too. I will fly. So your "noone will fly" argument is moot. Also you can overheat it for 2-3 cycles to get to snipers. Or send in ceptors 1st and warp to ceptors. Also how do you think dictors were used before nano/polycarbon era? They were slow like hell and still ppl used em. So prolly you never flown em before and started using already overpowered ships. Now its good time to remember how dictors were used in 1st place and fly em accordingly. Quote: So if this going to happend i'm doing to suspend my account, and all specialists that i trained, and now they getting nerfed and fly cruiser, or Battleship... Can i have your stuff? Or at least all dictors.
Evengard Solar Dragons Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:35:00 - [163] Originally by: Deva Blackfire I will fly. So your "noone will fly" argument is moot. Also you can overheat it for 2-3 cycles to get to snipers. Or send in ceptors 1st and warp to ceptors. 1. Read first, then reply. It was noone going to use RIGs like polycarbons on dictor. = Failed 2. Overcharge??? You will be popped before you get half way to sniper with you speed. = Failed Quote: Also how do you think dictors were used before nano/polycarbon era? I use them from moment they were added. = Failed Quote: Can i have your stuff? Or at least all dictors. Nothing smarter to say?? = Failed surely . ___________________ Recon and Intercept
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:38:00 - [164] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Also how do you think dictors were used before nano/polycarbon era? They were slow like hell and still ppl used em. So prolly you never flown em before and started using already overpowered ships. Now its good time to remember how dictors were used in 1st place and fly em accordingly. I don't fit polycarbs on my dictors already. They're simply too damn expensive. However, there's no good reason to across the board nerf dictor speed. If there is a problem with speed in Eve, make speed in Eve slower. Not dictors (and only dictors). I fail to understand why they would boost the crap out of interceptors, not nerf interceptor speed, and then nerf dictor speed. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Heretic Army	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:59:00 - [165] "I'm tired of these mother***** Snakes on this mother***** ship!!!" Seriously, if anything is too fast, it's the Snake implants, not the ship. The Sabre was too fast? Change the SABRE! Not the Eris. Not the Heretic. Not the Flycatcher. If the Vagabond is too fast, you change the Vagabond, not the Deimos, right? Then why would you ruin an entire class to make one ship less powerful. This is the first change I have truly hated since Warp to 0. --- Amarr/Caldari, and proud of it. Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.02 20:04:00 - [166] Originally by: Evengard Originally by: Deva Blackfire I will fly. So your "noone will fly" argument is moot. Also you can overheat it for 2-3 cycles to get to snipers. Or send in ceptors 1st and warp to ceptors. 1. Read first, then reply. It was noone going to use RIGs like polycarbons on dictor. = Failed 2. Overcharge??? You will be popped before you get half way to sniper with you speed. = Failed I was responding to polycarbs argument. And i will still use 300-400m/piece dictors because they can still survive long enough. 6km/s or 7,2km/s is not much difference. And if you dont know - overcharged nerfed dictor will fly 12,5% faster than one before nerf (w/o overcharge). So if you say that overcharged nerfed dictor cant reach snipers, it means you cant reach em now anyways. So nothing changes. Quote: Quote: Also how do you think dictors were used before nano/polycarbon era? I use them from moment they were added. = Failed I do the same. So if you use em from beginning you should WELL KNOW that they were slow. And still you could survive long enough to get to snipers. Quote: Can i have your stuff? Or at least all dictors. Nothing smarter to say?? = Failed surely . Because saying "fail" everytime makes your arguments look strong. NOT.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.02 20:07:00 - [167] Originally by: Bardi MecAuldnis "I'm tired of these mother***** Snakes on this mother***** ship!!!" Seriously, if anything is too fast, it's the Snake implants, not the ship. The Sabre was too fast? Change the SABRE! Not the Eris. Not the Heretic. Not the Flycatcher. If the Vagabond is too fast, you change the Vagabond, not the Deimos, right? Then why would you ruin an entire class to make one ship less powerful. This is the first change I have truly hated since Warp to 0. Wrong assumption. Heretic is as fast as sabre, and im fairly sure (didnt check) that eris can reach similiar speeds. nly one staying behind was catcher due to 1 lowslot and low base speed. Nerfing sabre speed alone would mean that it would be way slower than heretic. Now with tweaked speeds sabre is still equal to heretic (+-200m/s with speed fits). Did not check eris and catcher but i guess they should be close to others in speed now.
Blue Medusa GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 20:25:00 - [168] Oh god the flycatcher max speed None of these crap changes would be coming down the pipe if they were not introducing new ship types. --- lol signatures
Evengard Solar Dragons Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 20:34:00 - [169] According to EFT (t2 overdrives, t2 MWD, t1 polycarbons, all skills @5): Sabre (2 low) 6390 Eris (4 low) 6492 Heretic (3 low) 6233 Flycatcher (1 low) 4548 ___________________ Recon and Intercept
Havoc GunStar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 20:41:00 - [170] Welp, the broadsword and the other heavy interdictors better be all that and a goddamn bag of chips, because this will break interdictors for fleet warfare. There's no way you'll live long enough to sprint to an enemy fleet with this. Before it was pretty balanced, you might get there, but you'll die on the way or when you get there. Now, you'll never get there, without someone providing a warpin. What's the point of the interceptor requirement on the ship then? Some cruisers will go faster. You can't seriously say the Flycatcher needed a speed nerf
Azuse The Brotherhood Of The Blade Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.02 20:45:00 - [171] Originally by: Andreya true, but like i said, the eris is still prety useless.. but on the same note, i use all my lows for speed on my sabre and heretic (doesnt really justify the eris's speed, in know... but in a fleet battle, that little bit more still helps you do the job) Oh idk about useless, make a dam good salvager --------------------------
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.02 20:51:00 - [172] Originally by: Evengard Edited by: Evengard on 02/11/2007 20:42:42 According to EFT (t2 overdrives, t2 MWD, t1 polycarbons, all skills @5): Sabre (2 low) 6390 (1,5m) Eris (4 low) 6492 (1,75m) Heretic (3 low) 6233 (1,625m) Flycatcher (1 low) 4548 (1,9m) Problem of other dictors is that they need to use more overdrives, removing tanking (Eris \ Heretic) And catcher is too heavy (1,9m vs 1,5m for Sabre) and have only 1 low slot... And btw, i use it too, but more like multi-function platform, not like combat interdictor... What's it look like without polycarbs? And how did you edit EFT to have the new speeds.. ? And those speeds look suspiciously high anyway; you sure you did it right? Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.02 21:39:00 - [173] CCP you lost your freaken minds. - gob
Evengard Solar Dragons Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 21:54:00 - [174] Originally by: Liang Nuren What's it look like without polycarbs? And how did you edit EFT to have the new speeds.. ? And those speeds look suspiciously high anyway; you sure you did it right? Liang This is TQ speed ___________________ Recon and Intercept
Mortuus Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.02 22:39:00 - [175] Yay, another now crap ship class. Buy the cheapest ones you can get, suicide to use bubble. Hell, at least you don't even need to fit guns now...or speed mods. Just have a few ceptors run in, then warp in and drop bubble..... Well, good thing I am training on my compensation skills to 5, because it looks like we're headed back towards tank or gank, not tank, gank or speed. ex-Occassus Republica <3
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 22:40:00 - [176] Originally by: Liang Nuren However, there's no good reason to across the board nerf dictor speed. If there is a problem with speed in Eve, make speed in Eve slower. Not dictors (and only dictors). ^^^ This is the post to read read this one. ^^^ Issues of ship speed in Eve aren't about dictors, they're about the ubiquitous stacking of lowslot nanomods + snake sets + polycarbs on already fast hulls giving you a ship which is virtually impossible to hit or tackle unless the pilot is massively dumb or unlucky. Hilariously, this adds up to a powering up of the remaining speedtankers like interceptors and vagabonds by wrecking one of the few ships that could come anywhere near keeping up with them to tackle . CCP should be seriously looking at the issue of ship speeds as a whole (for example Guomindong's ideas on stasis webs) rather than rolling a dice to decide which ship gets wrecked this time around. Also, in before frantic backpedalling Dev post to tell us this was all a slip of the keyboard and no such nerf is intended. :V
Selnix Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.03 01:19:00 - [177] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Wrong assumption. Heretic is as fast as sabre, and im fairly sure (didnt check) that eris can reach similiar speeds. nly one staying behind was catcher due to 1 lowslot and low base speed. Nerfing sabre speed alone would mean that it would be way slower than heretic. Now with tweaked speeds sabre is still equal to heretic (+-200m/s with speed fits). Did not check eris and catcher but i guess they should be close to others in speed now. Deva, you shouldn't have eaten so many paint chips when you were a kid... Heretic is not as fast as a Sabre, never has been. Eris is not either. Maybe if you had read through the thread instead of just flaming or cheering for the nerf like a drunken teenager at a high school football game you might have seen my earlier post that said specifically how the speed nerf was affecting the ships currently on Sisi. Originally by: Selnix Unrigged Post-nerf Eris with Accel IV and Nav V goes 3939m/s, with a tech II speed kit. Taranis does 6211m/s. Ares does 7312m/s. Crusader does 7603m/s. Malediction does 6716m/s. Thank you for trying to prove your point using the slowest interceptor and second fastest interdictor. Regardless, the intys are still at least 30% faster than the post-nerf Eris so how is it supposed to catch, kill or even annoy them? Also with useless (fight inside of web range) ammunition, the top speed of a Heretic has been reduced to 3596m/s or roughly half the speed of the average interceptor. With ammunition that keeps you near a safer distance, that velocity is further reduced to 2252m/s or roughly 1/3 of the velocity of your average interceptor. The Flycatcher may actually be able to outrun the Heretic now if it refrains from using Precision light missiles or long range rockets. To help put all of that in perspective, a prorator (industrial) can go 3210m/s in a simple T2 speed kit. The only implant in the test was a 3% to MWD hardwiring that was in for all of the tests, thus keeping them on even ground. (didn't remember having one last mirror) Try using ammunition when you look at the speed of a ship instead of just pulling numbers or assumptions or superiority complexes out of your butt. Flycatcher and Heretic are both missile ships. The missiles/rockets that are best fitted to their role as anti-frigate vessels nerf your speed by 7.5% per launcher (6 total). Your Sabre on the other hand is kitted out with 7 tech II guns and ammunition with no such detriment to your speed.
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.03 01:26:00 - [178] Selnix diffrence is sabre can barely hit outside web range while with your T2 rockets you have no worries but thats hardly the point dictors are not huge damage platforms they are there to bubble and get out occasionally take part in killings.
Leqtu niX Amarr Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.03 01:41:00 - [179] Edited by: Leqtu niX on 03/11/2007 01:41:59 Originally by: Random Womble Selnix diffrence is sabre can barely hit outside web range while with your T2 rockets you have no worries but thats hardly the point dictors are not huge damage platforms they are there to bubble and get out occasionally take part in killings. Quite a bit easier to survive at those ranges if A) you have the speed to get there in the first place or B) you have the 4 mid slots to accomodate MWD, Web, Scram AND the Medium Extender... With the Heretic you either give up your hitpoints, your scram that helps keep them tackled long enough to web, or the web itself that lets you stay in range for your short range weapons (which can not be T2 if you want to be able to keep the web and scram running due to the capacitor penalty) With the Flycatcher you'll have the range to stay away if you want to in theory, but won't have the speed to do it in practice. With the Eris you are just bent over and accosted either way with your two mid slots and bonus to capacitor hungry weapons. edit: Wrong account but he knows who it is anyhow so who gives a frak.
BAteh Amarr Taggart Transdimensional Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.03 01:45:00 - [180] Originally by: Snowden Vel CCP's idea of balance: making everything suck. :cripes: QFT. also, CCP's "Need for Speed Initiative" consists of making everything suck, (Amarr being the worst 95% of the time), so everyone is easy to kill, thus reducing ships in space at any given time, thus reducing lag, thus making life nice for macro miners. (you do know CCP does not do anything about petitioned MMs, right?). Last months have been a steep way down in Eve's playability. Oh, but wait, there's new ships. My kid is happy about that.
Yamamaya Hayahikigane Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.03 01:52:00 - [181] Edited by: Yamamaya Hayahikigane on 03/11/2007 01:53:15 This is ridiculous... You ccreate a class of ships to catch other ships, and then make that class of ships incapabile of catching ANY F'ING THING! ^__^
Angor The JORG Corporation Methods of Mayhem Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.03 02:03:00 - [182] NOT HAPPY CCP = ****ERS _______________________________ [ 2007.06.07 21:07:22 ] FrankyWave > ransom me guys I am joining XElas !!!
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.03 10:12:00 - [183] Originally by: Selnix Originally by: Deva Blackfire Wrong assumption. Heretic is as fast as sabre, and im fairly sure (didnt check) that eris can reach similiar speeds. nly one staying behind was catcher due to 1 lowslot and low base speed. Nerfing sabre speed alone would mean that it would be way slower than heretic. Now with tweaked speeds sabre is still equal to heretic (+-200m/s with speed fits). Did not check eris and catcher but i guess they should be close to others in speed now. Deva, you shouldn't have eaten so many paint chips when you were a kid... Heretic is not as fast as a Sabre, never has been. Eris is not either. Maybe if you had read through the thread instead of just flaming or cheering for the nerf like a drunken teenager at a high school football game you might have seen my earlier post that said specifically how the speed nerf was affecting the ships currently on Sisi. Originally by: Evengard Sabre (2 low) 6390 (1,5m) Eris (4 low) 6492 (1,75m) Heretic (3 low) 6233 (1,625m) Flycatcher (1 low) 4548 (1,9m) Except for personal insults you didnt have anything else in your post. So sorry mr idiot, go back a page and read up. Sabre is 2,5% faster than heretic, eris is faster than sabre. Suprised? Or maybe go yourself of TQ instead of whoring forums and fit both ships. And check again. Dunno what you fly, but i DO use both heretic and sabre. From what i see you use heretic and eris, then how the fck are you comparing em to sabre? If you mean "i never could catch sabre in either heretic or eris" maybe its time to think "why"? You can start with: gistii (ever used it on heretic? coz i did), hardwires or snake implants. So pretty much your post except for typical kiddy-style aftermatch/xelas smack doesnt have anything worthy in it. Maybe its time to grow up? Quote: Try using ammunition when you look at the speed of a ship instead of just pulling numbers or assumptions or superiority complexes out of your butt. Flycatcher and Heretic are both missile ships. The missiles/rockets that are best fitted to their role as anti-frigate vessels nerf your speed by 7.5% per launcher (6 total). Your Sabre on the other hand is kitted out with 7 tech II guns and ammunition with no such detriment to your speed. You dont use javelin rockets on heretic. Unless you are an idiot (which assume you ar from above) and want to either die fast or let target go away. You should know by now that not only you need to hit target (javs do have higher velocity) but you also need to damage it (wow... javs have 500explo velocity... with maxskill+heretic bonus you can barely damage 2,5km/s targets). And if you are hunting slow targets you might as well use normal missiles and kill em faster with higher damage. But every missile user should know how missiles work. And no, atm on TQ you will not kill sabre fit for speed - its too fast. But with sisi changes and maxed skills you stand a chance, coz sabre suddenly lands inside normal rocket speed range.
Evengard Solar Dragons Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.03 11:20:00 - [184] Originally by: Deva Blackfire And no, atm on TQ you will not kill sabre fit for speed - its too fast. But with sisi changes and maxed skills you stand a chance, coz sabre suddenly lands inside normal rocket speed range. You won't kill ANY dictor fitted for speed. Maybe except catcher... They ALL does 10+ km\s!! You won't kill Any Ceptor fitted for speed!! = they go 15+ With device "Hands" fitted and device "Brain" online, these ships just won't let you do that. And with bubble changes and Sisi nerf, dictors will just die in theyr own probes, because they cant's drop bubble and warp away, and after bubble drop, speed reducing, and you just ... die. ___________________ Recon and Intercept
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.03 11:29:00 - [185] Originally by: Evengard Originally by: Deva Blackfire And no, atm on TQ you will not kill sabre fit for speed - its too fast. But with sisi changes and maxed skills you stand a chance, coz sabre suddenly lands inside normal rocket speed range. You won't kill ANY dictor fitted for speed. Maybe except catcher... They ALL does 10+ km\s!! You won't kill Any Ceptor fitted for speed!! = they go 15+ Those are gistii+snake ceptors/dictors. And even after nerf they wont be easy to kill anyways. Problem is t2 sabre can reach 6+km/s (dont remember exact value now and TQ is down to check) and this speed is enough to give him invulnerability. Gistii+poly (no snake) sabre goes 7,2-7,8km/s (depends on hardwires) Quote: With device "Hands" fitted and device "Brain" online, these ships just won't let you do that. Agreed with this one. You dont die as long as you WANT to do so (or you get hit by game bug) Quote: And with bubble changes and Sisi nerf, dictors will just die in theyr own probes, because they cant's drop bubble and warp away, and after bubble drop, speed reducing, and you just ... die. Its because bubble is dropped in front of ship and you bump into it. I know i had problem myself tackling nighthawk - had to time next bubble between missiles hitting me otherwise id instapop. But this issue has nothing to do with dictor speed. Best way to fix it would be to make dictor bubbles same as cans are now: immaterial (hope its correct word) so you pass thru them.
Apply HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2007.11.03 11:29:00 - [186] Originally by: Snowden Vel CCP's idea of balance: making everything suck. :cripes: OMG, I'm agreeing with a goon, what comes next?
Jagerin Gallente AB INITO	Posted - 2007.11.03 11:35:00 - [187] 1) Even on SISI Sabre is faster than rockets... 2) Eris can easyly kill sabre, and it doesn't need to catch sabre, because they usually attack first 3) Rockets? Flycatcher with proper fit can kill sabre too. And it also doesn't need to catch sabre. About dictor's invulnerability - anti-inty/dictor ship like caracal w/ t2 lights or muninn has no problems with killing them. Also neut ships & vagas are evil. And if you can't kill sabre on your cloaked raven w/ torps - that's not dictor's problem Also i wanted to ask - what will be the new pimped crow killer? Muninn need pretty long range to fire, caracal can't hit such fast target, heavy neuts can't drain target from 27km (or even 33 on new malediction). What's left? Curse, Huginn & vaga? Not much.
Sauromugue	Posted - 2007.11.03 11:58:00 - [188] Everything's getting nerfed, these days I don't even train what I want to fly, just what I think is the least likely to get nerfed... I was seriously considering Amarr on the sole reason "Well, they have to get buffed sooner or later, right?" The nerfbat is just too wild in this game. But it's not what the majority wants, it's what the devs want... *** the skull of 0.0 logistics, further nerf the Eris and the other flying coffins, saying they don't want blob warfare but giving them all the tools people need to blob. CCP, stop changing your Goddamn mind of what you want this game to be every 6 months. walking in stations, ** new graphics, just GIVE US A STABLE GAME. :( I get the feeling that CCP is run by like 6 teens with ADD or something.
Redback911 Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.11.03 12:07:00 - [189] I'm really glad I love Amarr, and made the ships work for me rather than running to the FOTM. "Waaah I trained this and it nerfed ... now I train this and it nerf...." Stop training FOTM.
Trent Nichols Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.03 16:48:00 - [190] Originally by: Redback911 I'm really glad I love Amarr, and made the ships work for me rather than running to the FOTM. "Waaah I trained this and it nerfed ... now I train this and it nerf...." Stop training FOTM. FOTM = Useful ships?
gyt	Posted - 2007.11.03 19:01:00 - [191] Looks like the 600 fixes is actually 600 nerfs :(
Ruciza	Posted - 2007.11.03 19:09:00 - [192] I'm scissors, paper is good, nerf rock.
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.11.03 19:35:00 - [193] Seriously, put down the nerf bat and step away from the computer. Don't make me taze you bro.
Saint Luka The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.03 20:11:00 - [194] This game disappoints me more and more every passing day. -
IamBen Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.03 20:13:00 - [195] the sabre was the only one that needed to be calmed down a bit. This is probaly too much.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora	Posted - 2007.11.03 20:51:00 - [196] Great nerf all interdictors because sabre can go so fast. Flawless logic. Just once ppl. try to fit flycatcher to go even as fast as HACs. And have full rack of rocket launchers. (oh that dps!) Then try flying it, without going instapop. Maybe harder than you think. And no, you won't be going as fast as interceptors.
Miss KillSome Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.11.03 20:55:00 - [197] cpp is going mad with nerfs.. this game is gonna turn into carebear empire warfare: who can mine that veldspar roid faster.. actually, i'm gonna write a whole new topic about CCP going haywire..
Selnix Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.04 04:22:00 - [198] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Dunno what you fly, but i DO use both heretic and sabre. From what i see you use heretic and eris, then how the fck are you comparing em to sabre? If you mean "i never could catch sabre in either heretic or eris" maybe its time to think "why"? You can start with: gistii (ever used it on heretic? coz i did), hardwires or snake implants. Nice... Polycarb'd, Snake'd, Hardwired, Gistii Eris... to catch a Sabre, then once you activate the guns and (if you fit one instead of the MSE II) disruptor, both your capacitor and shield disappear as you finally catch up to the Sabre. Real nice use of isk there. With the Eris you can fit rails for pathetic damage and tracking with moderate cap use that breaks your regen, or you can fit blasters that will ***your cap, dictate very close range, work very poorly without a web and are more or less suicidal. If you wish to disregard the primary ship bonuses you can fit 4 T2 rocket launchers which have the same range/web need problems of the blasters unless you use T2 which reduce your speed to sub-par or pathetic levels, or you can fit missiles which will make it virtually impossible to fit the medium extender. Pretty much any kit you put on the ship, it is a piece of junk. High speed rigged Heretic is more realistic but once again you are stuck with either capacitor killing turrets (unbonused in this case), using rockets that you do get a bonus to but will be forced to stay inside web range of the enemy to hit as your T2 ammo either kills your capacitor or slows you down to pathetic speeds, or you can put on a few light missile launchers that give you better range and no speed or cap nerf if you use faction ammo but you will lose a 25% damage bonus and will have to gimp your kit elsewhere. In both ships' cases, the Sabre is far far superior as you don't have to gimp your setup to the edge of being unusable just to attain high speeds. At the end of the day 4 mid slots with high speed can not be beaten by 2 or 3. Originally by:** Deva Blackfire So pretty much your post except for typical kiddy-style aftermatch/xelas smack doesnt have anything worthy in it. Might check corp history before you smack... never was in Xelas. Originally by: Deva Blackfire You dont use javelin rockets on heretic. Unless you are an idiot (which assume you ar from above) and want to either die fast or let target go away. Guess your 65 kills in a Sabre and 28 in the Heretic make you an interdictor expert, but I think that given I've had 240 with my Eris and 195 with my Heretic, I'll stick to my own kits and let you fly whatever super duper uberpwnmobile kits you can dream up using EFT or Quickfit.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.04 11:17:00 - [199] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 04/11/2007 11:22:30 Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 04/11/2007 11:21:45 Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 04/11/2007 11:17:56 Originally by: Selnix In both ships' cases, the Sabre is far far superior as you don't have to gimp your setup to the edge of being unusable just to attain high speeds. At the end of the day 4 mid slots with high speed can not be beaten by 2 or 3. Was saying abt "catching" sabre, read = tackling it. There are no means of killing hi-speed sabre in other ship unless its other sabre/vaga/rapier/huginn Quote: Guess your 65 kills in a Sabre and 28 in the Heretic make you an interdictor expert, but I think that given I've had 240 with my Eris and 195 with my Heretic, I'll stick to my own kits and let you fly whatever super duper uberpwnmobile kits you can dream up using EFT or Quickfit. Add: 244 heretic + 78 sabre from when i was in razor plus kills from when i was in celes (flown only sabre during that time, god knows how many kills coz KB was changed 2143632 times), CDA and my noobcorp times (yeh flown my sabre there too). Easily 600 kills if not more total. So you didnt do your research properly. EDIT: As for using Qfit and EFT. Um i do hope you 1st buy and then pimp out your faction ships on TQ without checking em earlier. Sellers must be happy. Those tools are there to help fit ships and see what can you expect not to fly ships for you. But if you have clue and can make working fit in EFT you can easily pass it over to TQ (surprise, except for rare bugs all ships work exactly as supposed). So guess you are trying to put here another kiddy-****style smack coz you are left out of arguments. If you want to discuss then start using normal arguments. If you want to smack - there is CAOD, heard goons levelled the field so you might feel like at home.
Pilgrippa 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.04 11:55:00 - [200] PVP in EVE sucks balls atm. Especially solo stuff. I'm a sabre pilot, and this change doesn't bother me at all. Currently, who in his right mind would fly a ceptor over a sabre? If anyone can honestly tell me they didn't expect a sabre nerf, I would call him a liar. As far as the other dictors getting nerfed, what can I say. These ships are for 1 thing: dropping people out of warp. The fact that they can solopwn a wide variety of ships was just a bonus that was fun to exploit. Now that that ablility is diminished, you might have to pick another ship. Want to go fast and tackle, use a ceptor. Want to trap ships, use a dictor. I can guarantee these things won't be 30 million anymore. This game needs a change, and at this point I'll take anything. DTee pretty much summed up my thoughts on the subject, so I won't repeat his post. (no it's not cuz we're corpmates.)
Mr Mozzie Evolution	Posted - 2007.11.04 12:50:00 - [201] Originally by: Kublai Khan Edited by: Kublai Khan on 02/11/2007 19:04:19 Hmmmm.... Ive been calling out for a nerf of dictors. But nerfing their surviviability is just stupid, except maybe the sabre should have been made abit slower and flycatcher abit faster. The problem with the dictor isnt the ship, but the dictor bubble and that it is staying up so long. It shouldnt last that long, it should last more like 30 sec, and/or be made targetable. The only problem with is it that two three dictors can do the job that you needed 20 tacklers for in the past.... I think this nerf is a good thing. I agree with you that bubbles are overpowered, and need to be nerfed. Because dictors go hand in hand with bubbles, nerfing the dictor is a defacto nerf of bubbles. Slowing interdictors will change the way interdiction works. It will remove them from their present ubertackling role so that fleets will need to be more interceptor heavy. Having said that I agree that they could have just as well reduced the bubble duration to 30 seconds. In fact, that might have been a better change.
Aries Acheron Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.04 20:49:00 - [202] Bubbles overpowered? You can say that, but what does nerfing a Dictor's speed have anything to do with that? 90 percent of bubble use is at a gate, where a Battleship's speed works. the only difference is, without speed, a dictor loses it's secondary abilities: The ability to engage Interceptors and AFs effectively, and the ability to survive post-bubble (or before if you have to get into position). Already dictors have MASSIVE sig radiuses for their HP. All this is really doing is making the HICs look far more attractive. I say that nerfing Interdictor speeds is seriously not the right way to go. Nerf Polycarbons. Nerf Snakes. Not the joe average 4k with speedmods dictor that has the tightest possible orbit radius of 20+km, at 3k. That's vulnerable enough already to a damn T1 Rupture. ~~~ Survive Eve! Eve Tribune
Granth Roden	Posted - 2007.11.04 23:29:00 - [203] Yukisa indicated a problem here - the longer the distance the better you hit. So the bigger ships can pop small ships when they shouldn't, and because of this a lot of game mechanics get ****ed. 1 - game ships must be hugely fast to survive big ships at long ranges 2 - because they are very fast, a lot of other game mechanics get twisted out of recognition - such as mods whose range represents less than 2 seconds before a ship goes out of range. 3 - you want to make something able (or not) to catch a type of ship, but that change also greatly affects speed tanking. Example solutions: 1 - gun signature of X happens at range Y (say 40km) and it grows proportional to range. So at 80k its double, at 200k its 5 times. This means smaller ships start being missed at range and it counteracts the tracking.
Mr Mozzie Evolution	Posted - 2007.11.05 08:03:00 - [204] Originally by: Aries Acheron Bubbles overpowered? You can say that, but what does nerfing a Dictor's speed have anything to do with that? 90 percent of bubble use is at a gate, where a Battleship's speed works. the only difference is, without speed, a dictor loses it's secondary abilities: The ability to engage Interceptors and AFs effectively, and the ability to survive post-bubble (or before if you have to get into position). Yeah, I agree that gates is where they are most overpowered. I just can't see how you could nerf bubbles at gates without making them completely useless. Reducing their time to 30 seconds would be nice, but it wouldn't change much.
Aries Acheron Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.05 10:15:00 - [205] In any case, the introduction of the HICs means that CCP obviously sees bubbling as something that needs to be BUFFED, not nerfed. Yet when it comes down to it, what is inherently wrong with interdictors? They're well armed, yes. But they're actually relatively less defensive-capable against cruisers than Inties are. Why? Their sig radiuses are twice as big, while they're noticibly slower (about 30 percent or so). A HAC or well setup t1 Cruiser can eat up a dictor. Right where it belongs. A T2 Dictor destroys T1 Frigs and T1 Destroyers in the same way a T2 HAC destroys T1 Cruisers and Frigs, but probably dies to a T1 Battlecruiser. Any 'overspeed!' complaints really are coming from people who fought polycarbed out snaked garbage. At which point you need to ask, why isn't CCP nerfing the far more powerful, better tanked, faster Vagabond? ~~~ Survive Eve! Eve Tribune
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.06 03:33:00 - [206] has ccp put up any reply to the dictor nerf yet ? it would be nice if they explained themselves once in a while _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
ErazorHead Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.06 09:07:00 - [207] Edited by: ErazorHead on 06/11/2007 09:15:09 I was about to reactivate my two accounts, I stopped playing in may and payed till september, and bring my gf to EvE which would have been at least another account for CCP's wallet, but before that I decided to take a look a the Dev forum to see if anything interresting or sad was going on... After reading the "torp nerf" thread which apparently gonna kill my main source of income (lvl4's in my T2 Torp CNR) then this thread, I've reconsidered my willing to come back and decided I won't reactivate. Keep on the good work to the road of becoming another SWG, you're almost there. /back to the L2 grinding
Black Jumper Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:33:00 - [208] How to make your game boring, go on ...
Beastoria Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:37:00 - [209] hmm --------------------------------------------------
Chaaaz	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:57:00 - [210] Im not sure who comes up with these ideas, but im guessing they got whooped by a sabre, and decided to nerf it. If these silly nerfs keep occuring you'll just end up with a game thats so even anything could kill anything... CCP... keep things realistic, there is such a think as 'best thing for the job', and by nerfing everything down there youll soon be able to fit any ship into any catagory... although i might be exagerating slightly! :-)
Lrrp Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.06 15:00:00 - [211] Hey, this is really great! I love it! Unlike the torp nerf that I took the time to train my 2nd acct to use t2 torp launchers, I actually held off buying the Interdictor skill book. Looks like I will save the isk for something else. But wait! What skill should I buy next? I could buy the HAC skill so I can fly a Vagabond, but that will prolly get nerfed in the future. I was looking at Carriers but they are being nerfed so no go there. Me ponders. Hmmm...if all EVE is developing into is a game where what one trains for only gets nerfed into something less than useful, perhaps one is better playing WoW after all. Then again there is a reason WoW has a 8 million player base and Eve has.....what? Players want a certain degree of stability in their game. Not a endless cycle of tweaking. Add content yes, but don't degrade what players have spent months training for. Then again CCP may not truly understand that keeping your long term customers who have multiple accounts happy, is key to being successful.
Dark 0men Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.06 20:18:00 - [212] Bump to the top. Do the interns at CCP have posting privileges? If so, could the person who came up with this change please reply here?
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.07 01:46:00 - [213] Originally by: Dark 0men Bump to the top. Do the interns at CCP have posting privileges? If so, could the person who came up with this change please reply here? remember when the devs headed off for some event and one of the programmers decided to change covert ops so you can actually lock them beFORE they cloaked? and thousands of covert ops were getting slaughtered (when cloaks werestill 70 mill) ... then, the devs came back and pretty much spanked the dude silly (the one who made the change) ... well, im hoping this is a repeat... _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Phaedruss	Posted - 2007.11.07 05:15:00 - [214] Edited by: Phaedruss on 07/11/2007 05:15:53 Originally by: Mr Mozzie Originally by: Aries Acheron Bubbles overpowered? You can say that, but what does nerfing a Dictor's speed have anything to do with that? 90 percent of bubble use is at a gate, where a Battleship's speed works. the only difference is, without speed, a dictor loses it's secondary abilities: The ability to engage Interceptors and AFs effectively, and the ability to survive post-bubble (or before if you have to get into position). Yeah, I agree that gates is where they are most overpowered. I just can't see how you could nerf bubbles at gates without making them completely useless. Reducing their time to 30 seconds would be nice, but it wouldn't change much. Dictor bubbles are hardly overpowered at gates. If you're chasing a target thru a gate, dictor and target nearly always uncloak on the other side well outside of bubble range from each other. With a dictor sitting on a gate and a target jumping thru from the other side, that target decloaks toward the outer edges of the bubble. Nano ships will usually be able to make it back to the gate and small ships can often just fly out of the bubble and get away. Dictors are not easy to use properly. I remember when I first started training for dictors I was very excited about all the kills I was going to get with it. It's not like that, or more to the point, it can be, but it requires a lot of pilot skill and experience to be very effective in a dictor. Further, most inexperienced pilots (and many experienced pilots) tend to panic when they get into a dictor bubble and make mistakes. When jumping thru a gate and into a bubble, you always see people not using the cloaked time to confirm there's a bubble and to check where you are in the bubble and the best way to get out. Warping into a bubble often happens when people don't scan gates firs (sometimes it's not possible because gates are too far apart and there are no celestial bodies to warp to first, but this is probably a minority of cases). All in all, while admitting that bubbles can be extremely effective...and why would anyone bother with them if they weren't, they often appear more effective than they really are because of a combination of some truly brilliant dictor pilots out there and an abundance of targets who simply don't react appropriately.
Green Onions Funk Fu Industries	Posted - 2007.11.07 07:30:00 - [215] Well in the last month one of my alts finished training Acceleration control Lv5, And Interdictors Lv5. So now I am still primary but my ability to get out of dodge has been greatly diminished :( Not to mention how are we hell are we going to catch the new and improved interceptors now? With the changes to ceptors cap mods are no longer needed and speed mod will be the go making them even faster. So they better change the dam description on the ships then, cause they wont be catching them anymore :( With 2 X ODII's 1mn II I only get 3.7 M/s on SISI now :( Just shy of 5k on TQ. *******s is all I really have to add.....
Hertford Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.07 11:35:00 - [216] I have to say that the One-Low-Slot-Flycatcher definitely needed a speed nerf.
Helldrek Demonstar Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.07 12:15:00 - [217] Worst Idea Ever. Please dont let this hit TQ. ---
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.07 17:49:00 - [218] ccp has reply'd to all sorts of threads in game developement forum this week (quite a few on teh HIC thread) why haven't they confronted us with this yet? also. i just read, the HIC scramlber can be used on a single mom in low sec or whatever... wihtout suffering the penalties of the HIC bubble... so basically, the broadsword, and the amarr one, can perma speed tanka mothership (with exception to neuts and webs of course) so.. WHY are you nerfing out interdictors1!?!?!?!?!? specially when the broadsword is goign faster than them _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
meef Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.07 18:50:00 - [219] Originally by: Snowden Vel CCP's idea of balance: making everything suck. :cripes: INCLUDING AMARR RECONS. .... OH WAIT..
Kasilof	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:29:00 - [220] Edited by: Kasilof on 07/11/2007 22:29:49 I am not a frequent visitor to this section of the forum. However, this issue is important to me and I thought the devs might provide some insight and discussion on this change. I still hope they do. No comments at all from CCP on this change is very disappointing. I have heard that the EVE developer's communicate much better with its players than other games. I am not seeing it so far. Ha forgot to log in my main. Susitna.
Drash Kammatarr German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:52:00 - [221] Edited by: Drash Kammatarr on 07/11/2007 22:52:36 this outrageous! I skill for caldari missile boats...a few weeks later they get nerfed. I skill for amarr recons...few weeks later comes the nos nerf. I skill for sabre...now the speed nerf. wth is wrong with you, CCP?!? Why do you hate me? I never paid late, and if I do, just send some guys with baseball bats to my home. I can handle a few weeks of hospital, but months of skilltime down the drain is no good!! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Dawn Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.08 02:49:00 - [222] if ut akes away my Dictor speed, plz give back double/triple MWD.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.08 06:08:00 - [223] Originally by: Drash Kammatarr Edited by: Drash Kammatarr on 07/11/2007 22:52:36 this outrageous! I skill for caldari missile boats...a few weeks later they get nerfed. I skill for amarr recons...few weeks later comes the nos nerf. I skill for sabre...now the speed nerf. wth is wrong with you, CCP?!? Why do you hate me? I never paid late, and if I do, just send some guys with baseball bats to my home. I can handle a few weeks of hospital, but months of skilltime down the drain is no good!! If you train for FOTM thats how you end. FOTM will always get nerfed sooner or later.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.11.08 09:46:00 - [224] Edited by: Kerfira on 08/11/2007 09:54:49 Originally by: Drash Kammatarr Edited by: Drash Kammatarr on 07/11/2007 22:52:36 this outrageous! I skill for caldari missile boats...a few weeks later they get nerfed. I skill for amarr recons...few weeks later comes the nos nerf. I skill for sabre...now the speed nerf. wth is wrong with you, CCP?!? Why do you hate me? I never paid late, and if I do, just send some guys with baseball bats to my home. I can handle a few weeks of hospital, but months of skilltime down the drain is no good!! Please start training Amarr exclusively!!! On-topic: Sensor boosters are also getting nerfed, which might bring fleets closer together, meaning speed is not quite as important. Since 'dictors have almost totally 'removed' the 'ceptors from any usefull role in fleets, I personally think that some nerf of 'dictors are warranted. Whether this is it.... No idea, but the '10km/s' interdictors are stupid. Personally I'd go for a speed nerf across the board instead with these max. speeds using T2 or best named equipment: Frigates: 7.5 km/s Destroyers: 5 km/s Cruisers: 3 km/s Battlecruisers: 2 km/s Battleships: 1.5 km/s Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.08 10:03:00 - [225] The idea behinf it is right because sabres are simply to fast. I fly one and everytime i board it makes me laugh because it is so bloody overpowered. The problem is that it is a very poor nerf. This nerf hits the sabre but also all the other dictors. Seriously - did the eris need a nerf? Polycarbs are broken. Very badly so. Maybe they should fix the source of the problem instead of nerfing a whole ship class by looking at symptoms. Polycarbs make many ships imbalanced - not only sabres. If you have the cash to invest 100 mill into speed you can nano up pretty much anything. There is working nano cerberus setups out there. That's just bloody ridiculous.
Skadhi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.08 10:23:00 - [226] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 08/11/2007 09:54:49 Since 'dictors have almost totally 'removed' the 'ceptors from any usefull role in fleets, I personally think that some nerf of 'dictors are warranted. Whether this is it.... No idea, but the '10km/s' interdictors are stupid. Personally I'd go for a speed nerf across the board instead with these max. speeds using T2 or best named equipment: Frigates: 7.5 km/s Destroyers: 5 km/s A T2 unrigged sabre (without implants) is currently (on TQ) below 5km/s, this nerf is going to make it go 3.5k/s or so. I agree that 10km/s+ dictors (or ships in general, really) are broken, but you need snakes for that. Snakes are broken, not the ships. Nerf snakes, don't make the gap between the rich and poor even larger and break ships by balancing around stupidly overpowered implants.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.11.08 10:45:00 - [227] Edited by: Kerfira on 08/11/2007 10:45:11 Originally by: Skadhi Originally by: Kerfira Since 'dictors have almost totally 'removed' the 'ceptors from any usefull role in fleets, I personally think that some nerf of 'dictors are warranted. Whether this is it.... No idea, but the '10km/s' interdictors are stupid. Personally I'd go for a speed nerf across the board instead with these max. speeds using T2 or best named equipment: Frigates: 7.5 km/s Destroyers: 5 km/s A T2 unrigged sabre (without implants) is currently (on TQ) below 5km/s, this nerf is going to make it go 3.5k/s or so. I agree that 10km/s+ dictors (or ships in general, really) are broken, but you need snakes for that. Snakes are broken, not the ships. Nerf snakes, don't make the gap between the rich and poor even larger and break ships by balancing around stupidly overpowered implants. I was including Rigs in my considerations.... I dunno, maybe just place a hard cap on all types of ships, a speed they can't exceed under any circumstances, would be a better solution.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Skadhi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:00:00 - [228] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 08/11/2007 10:45:11 I was including Rigs in my considerations.... I dunno, maybe just place a hard cap on all types of ships, a speed they can't exceed under any circumstances, would be a better solution.... No, that would be a stupid idea. 100m of rigs (2 polycarbs) on a 35m primary with ~3k hitpoints, this gets expensive surprisingly fast. These ships are already suicide boats in fleets, going 25% slower will lead to them exploding before dropping their bubble instead of after. This is a nerf looking for a problem.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:22:00 - [229] Edited by: Kerfira on 08/11/2007 11:24:36 Originally by: Skadhi This is a nerf looking for a problem. Since 'dictors have almost totally replaced i'ceptors, there IS a problem. A speed nerf (I'm mostly thinking of the Sabre here) would be one solution.... Whether it's THE solution, I don't know, but ships being effectively invulnerable due to speed (no matter how that is done, snakes/rigs/whatever) is just wrong (this goes for all other shiptypes too btw, 'ceptors, vaga's etc.)... Originally by: Skadhi 100m of rigs (2 polycarbs) on a 35m primary with ~3k hitpoints, this gets expensive surprisingly fast. These ships are already suicide boats in fleets ...and still people are using them. This must indicate that they're worth it! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Dangerously Cheesey GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.08 17:56:00 - [230] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 08/11/2007 11:24:36 Originally by: Skadhi This is a nerf looking for a problem. Since 'dictors have almost totally replaced i'ceptors, there IS a problem. A speed nerf (I'm mostly thinking of the Sabre here) would be one solution.... Whether it's THE solution, I don't know, but ships being effectively invulnerable due to speed (no matter how that is done, snakes/rigs/whatever) is just wrong (this goes for all other shiptypes too btw, 'ceptors, vaga's etc.)... Originally by: Skadhi 100m of rigs (2 polycarbs) on a 35m primary with ~3k hitpoints, this gets expensive surprisingly fast. These ships are already suicide boats in fleets ...and still people are using them. This must indicate that they're worth it! Dictors have replaced ceptors for fleets? If only they gave ceptors some kind of fleet buff in the next patch - oh wait, they did! This nerf just turns dictors in fleet fights from "I wonder if I can burn, drop a bubble and get out before I die" to "FLYING COFFIN". The only potential saving grace is that this script nerf to TC/TE/SB might nerf eagles/muninns/etc hard enough to slightly counter balance the speed nerf.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.08 18:16:00 - [231] ARGH! sabres or other dictors do NOT GO 10km per second unless they are 300 mill plus 1 bill for snakes! i know, i fly one! LOOK AT REALISTIC NUMBERS! before implying that all 'sabres' go 10km, and are we forgetting, that eris is actually able to go faster, and a normal fit heretic is 7% slower than a sabre and can fight outside of web range! stop blaming your problem on sabres, stop blaming them on dictors, to a guy a few posts above, your right, nerfing dictor speed doesnt fix the problems out there now. but... polycarb are NOT broken, they are just too effective. and yes, im agreeing, they should be removed from game, even tho i have 4 ship currently in game with dual polys _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.08 18:18:00 - [232] i cant wait for all the people whining about sabres going too fast, to start crying that intys are going EVEN FASTER (cause you can now use one more low slot for speed, instead of cap mod) AND they can hold you down permanently! stop freakin gout about dictors and intys, and worry about the real problem of hacs going 5+ km... when the poor assault frigates are stil only going 2+km _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Dark 0men Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.08 22:49:00 - [233] Originally by: Kerfira ...and still people are using them. This must indicate that they're worth it! Well, ****. Let's nerf them until they aren't worth it, right? You have a job in CCP game design team waiting for you.
Dark 0men Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.09 17:41:00 - [234] Ah, we got a dev response, finally. Here's the snarky one-liner: Originally by: CCP Zulupark Being able to bubble up a 20km radius with a very very small ship should have some drawbacks don't you think? It shouldn't be a no-brainer to do in my opinion. Hey buddy? Were you perhaps a missioning carebear before joining CCP? In that case, I got some bad news. Your opinions didn't suddenly get more valid after getting hired. If the only reasoning you can give is "I think it should be this way", maybe you need to stay away from game design. I understand it gets a little tough, explaining so many random nerfs, and I have an excellent solution for that. Don't nerf things that don't need it.
Sofia Roseburn Caldari Racketeers	Posted - 2007.11.09 17:43:00 - [235] Originally by: Dark 0men Ah, we got a dev response, finally. Here's the snarky one-liner: Originally by: CCP Zulupark Being able to bubble up a 20km radius with a very very small ship should have some drawbacks don't you think? It shouldn't be a no-brainer to do in my opinion. Hey buddy? Were you perhaps a missioning carebear before joining CCP? In that case, I got some bad news. Your opinions didn't suddenly get more valid after getting hired. If the only reasoning you can give is "I think it should be this way", maybe you need to stay away from game design. I understand it gets a little tough, explaining so many random nerfs, and I have an excellent solution for that. Don't nerf things that don't need it. -----
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.09 18:19:00 - [236] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Being able to bubble up a 20km radius with a very very small ship should have some drawbacks don't you think? It shouldn't be a no-brainer to do in my opinion. It's an overgrown frigate, with microwarp and shield extenders to give it the sig radius of a small galaxy, that every fleet wants to kill first. There's your drawbacks. Good god. Does anyone else miss the days when this game had developers that knew what the hell they were talking about? Honestly, if you don't understand how something works, why are you making changes to it? -- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot
Maximiliuss	Posted - 2007.11.09 23:39:00 - [237] Of all the ship types to get a nerf.. i never expected it to be this one. There goes a whole freaking character designed to fly this kind of ship... I mean seriously it's going to cost an arm and a leg to fit a decent dictor that can live past some turret fire.. let alone missiles. Oh and now that you are slower guess what.. i bet even drones will catch up to you. CCP, i was starting to like you guys again, but there you are outnoobing your self.. UGh.
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.09 23:42:00 - [238] Edited by: Incantare on 09/11/2007 23:42:03 It's Zulupark, that explains it .
Phaedruss	Posted - 2007.11.10 07:47:00 - [239] Edited by: Phaedruss on 10/11/2007 07:47:28 Originally by: Dark 0men Ah, we got a dev response, finally. Here's the snarky one-liner: Originally by: CCP Zulupark Being able to bubble up a 20km radius with a very very small ship should have some drawbacks don't you think? It shouldn't be a no-brainer to do in my opinion. Hey buddy? Were you perhaps a missioning carebear before joining CCP? In that case, I got some bad news. Your opinions didn't suddenly get more valid after getting hired. If the only reasoning you can give is "I think it should be this way", maybe you need to stay away from game design. I understand it gets a little tough, explaining so many random nerfs, and I have an excellent solution for that. Don't nerf things that don't need it. Well said. Signed.
TjediAI	Posted - 2007.11.10 10:28:00 - [240] it's disballance ??? 3 minutes before dead its t2 saber 2 t2 over t2 mwd +(rogue impl) w/o gang bonus i was afk on safe, and then i return see that =) 2 days before i fight on Eris vs enemy SAbre...i losse.... 1 web vs 2 web// no fire power vs 7x200mm ERIS is mega dictor he have one drone one free med slot and topspeed in class but sabre have it whith 2 low 5 rail (wo track bonus) or 5 rockets (wo speed bonus) why dictors nerfing sabre is best dictors, only on sabre player can fight, all normal dictors fly on sabre... becouse "all" dictors fly on sabre we have disballance, and CCp nerf all class IF sabre best eris or sabre best heretic or sabre best flykacher then nerf dictors; End if; return();
Mr Broker Amarr Station Gremlings	Posted - 2007.11.10 10:43:00 - [241] So nerf snakes and polycarbons instead, as they are what unbalance speed ships?
Solid Trust Minmatar Haven Front	Posted - 2007.11.10 18:09:00 - [242] Edited by: Solid Trust on 10/11/2007 18:09:49 Originally by: CCP Zulupark Being able to bubble up a 20km radius with a very very small ship should have some drawbacks don't you think? It shouldn't be a no-brainer to do in my opinion. It needs some drawbacks? How about the fact that you are almost always primaried first. How often on vent does everyone scream, get the dictors first. The drawbacks exist, the problem is it is created by the player and not CCP. This speed nerf will only magnify that drawback. And I am sure guys have become numb of all whining so you will make this change regardless of what people say.
Tadehiro Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.11 04:12:00 - [243] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Being able to bubble up a 20km radius with a very very small ship should have some drawbacks don't you think? It shouldn't be a no-brainer to do in my opinion. 1) It's a destroyer hull (cruiser sized sig radius, frigate sized fittings), meaning that anything cruiser sized up will rip apart in seconds if it doesn't have speed to survive, and if it accidently turns towards the enemy ship while being firing at. 2) Any competent hostile commander will primary the interdictors. No if ands or buts. 3) The new electronic attack frigates (mimatar) will make most nanoships lives hell considering that if they cost about the same as ceptors (it'll take a month or two, probably more). The dictors are no exception, and one mimatar EA ship with one T1 cruiser nano fitted will own most dictors. 4) Rapiers / huginns will own rapiers. 5) Session changes in progress own dictors (don't laugh, it happens...way too many ships die to this). 6) Thier DPS, while comparable to T1 cruisers, sorely pale in comparison to T2 cruisers.
DiseL Dirt Nap Squad	Posted - 2007.11.11 05:34:00 - [244] While I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea I feel sorry for the Flycatcher pilots. Speed nerf combined with one slot is brutal. I guess the theory behind only one low slot was Caldari shield tank so no need for more lows. Shield/armor tanking a dictor is pretty much useless so speed is the only way to go. So I guess the Flycatcher is the specialty ship for dropping a bubble and jumping back through a gate for gate camps since making it out of it's own bubble just got much more difficult.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.11 14:46:00 - [245] dont blame the eris sucking on a sabre, a taranis could kill an eris, ... actually anything can kill an eris. a heretic and flycatcher pvp very differently from the sabre and a better version of a eris, a FIXED eris and a sabre, are the icing of the cake for killing small ships. the flyctacher and heretic are better for killing ships bigger than a destroyer. hell, i can kill almost anything in a heretic, or an expensive flycatcher. it DOES take forever, but it can be done,,, no way in hell can a sabre kill any pvp cruiser, cept maybe a low sp/poorly fitted caracal. nerfing their speed not only makes them useless for chasing down ceptors, which is a wicked job for them. but also useless for bubbling... and basically.... dead.. i can fly a broadsword... but i would rather fly a heretic or sabre without a nerf any day over the HIC... this was thee worste idea ive ever seen to try to balance a ship... and especially doing it just to make your new shiny ships more attractive unnerf the dictors!!!!! and give the eris 6-7 turrets! (thats all it really needs, even 7 turrets blasters sounds scary ) _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
boogaboob Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.13 06:57:00 - [246] This nerf is still a load of garbage, sooo... Back to the frontpage with you. Signatures done by me! Evemail me! Anyone? No? Aww...
Danari Amarr Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.13 08:12:00 - [247] CCP can suck my big hairy ******* balls.
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.11.13 10:45:00 - [248] Originally by: Dark 0men Ah, we got a dev response, finally. Here's the snarky one-liner: Originally by: CCP Zulupark Being able to bubble up a 20km radius with a very very small ship should have some drawbacks don't you think? It shouldn't be a no-brainer to do in my opinion. Hey buddy? Were you perhaps a missioning carebear before joining CCP? In that case, I got some bad news. Your opinions didn't suddenly get more valid after getting hired. If the only reasoning you can give is "I think it should be this way", maybe you need to stay away from game design. I understand it gets a little tough, explaining so many random nerfs, and I have an excellent solution for that. Don't nerf things that don't need it. Agree. After his blog about carriers i tough everyone can make a mistake, after the other posts of Zulupark i think he is simply and IDIOT. together with all the others in balance team. With answers like, i think so,m and never was meant, .... u just show u r idiots and try to hide the main reason all this unneded nerfs. DEVS WANT HOLD PEOPLES IN GAME, so they make new ships, but they fail make unique ones, so let nerf the existing ones to force peoples to train for the new ships...... Balance team u fools. If u would have at least 1% honor u would give up your job and walk away.
Corey Grim FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.13 12:44:00 - [249] Okay, couple of questions for CCP: 1. What is your plan behind this speed nerf? becouse quite honestly the idea doesnt "open" to me for several reasons. One being the simple fact that Broadsword is gonna be faster than any dictor, Stabber, Vaga, and many others are gonna be faster too, it is caused by the number of low slots available to those said ships and their base speed compared to dictors. 2. You (CCP) have made several adjustments for speed (nano¦s, inertia stabs etc etc) And i can understand why. What i dont understand is that why Snakes havent been "penalized" or why after several speed module changes you brought polycarbons to game? 3. Lets take the example out of the Sabre as it is now and how "good" it really is in different situations. -Solo: its good ship for killing small stuff up to AF¦s and it is capable to kill some poorly fitted cruisers in emerengency situation, BUT its one of the most [pilot]skill intensive solo ships out there atm, small miscalculation and you catch nothing or you end up dead.= not too usefull killing shuttles and AF¦s but fun. -Small gang: in small gang it has crucial role of dropping bubble but the fun thing is that it can actually protect your heavier ships by staying close to them and daring the AF¦s and ceptors to come closer if they dare (not smart thing to do btw). It is indeed intimidating ship for other small ships but one hac can ruin the dictors day if its not carefull.= Usefull for the gang to get the fight and hard but fun. -Medium roaming gang: drop a bubble and get out of the battle if you can. you are primary instantly anyway so no point staying= usefull but not fun. -Fleets: get the bubble up and run like hell= usefull but not fun. Okay after i look that and start thinking what the nerf will do for sabre in reality i only come to this conclusion: Its gonna be usefull but expensive one bubble dropper in fleets and medium/large roaming gangs, and its not fun at all to fly that way. It will lose some of its solo ability especially against ceptors further narrowing the suitable solo targets (shuttles, t1 frigs, haulers and AF¦s for sabre anymore) . in small gangs its gonna simply die becouse it cant control the range to hostile heavier ships and due to its sig radius its just gonna pop if it stays and fights. so again its just gonna be one bubble and warp out. Final Conclusion: If this dictor speed adjustment goes trough it removes the Fun part of dictor flying, affecting it¦s performance so that in fleets and big fights its gonna need warp in point for every bubble it hopes to drop, and its gonna die after that 1 bubble. Final questinn: what do you (CCP) hope to achieve with this? Enlighten us and we might be able to suggest other ways of doing it? My Latest Video:Kaamos
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:33:00 - [250] to the dude who posted above me, i love you. he brings up all valid points, of which CCP still has yet to respond to. and also realizes that out of the dictors, the Sabre is not the be all and end all... hes correct, the sabre is the best for combating small targets, but is exTREMEly vulnerable to cruiser or larger (pvp ones) of course, it can stay out of web range, but it wont be doing any damage, cause no smart sabre will go within 13km unless he already knew the target was going to die anyways...ships like the heretic and flycatcher are amazing at grabbing ratting ships and pinging away at their tanks with their much longer range missiles (and 14+km rockets on heretic) but, still not being overpowered, as most combat cruisers can still track at their orbit speeds (like medium rails) and any ships who needs to fit large guns or bays, should be fitting a neut anyways... and dont think the neut is just for dictors, its for intys, quick AFs, nanoHACs, and some recons... _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.13 16:35:00 - [251] Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 13/11/2007 16:39:55 zulupark, you suck. What, you gonna set the ishtar speed to 25m/s because it currently pushes 7km with snakes, rogues, rigs and ODJ? Duh, ship isn't the problem you tard. Serpentis specialize as smugglers, their implants give a bonus to sneaking by customs but should also give bonus to cargo hold capacity instead of velocity or a bonus to AB velocity. Yes, the ERIS is a POS unless you invest a hellish amount into implants, but then everything is better with snakes, rigs, and faction ODJ's. The PG/CPU are horrible. Someone basically told me, "Fit up 4 launchers and Speed". Seems to work since fitting 5 lt neutron blaster II's hogs the PG/CPU/CAP :( But then again, ERIS is 10 million compared to Sabre's 35 mil. THUKKER -Be Paranoid Skeet Skeet L33t
Awox Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:03:00 - [252] zulupark you suck
Hertford Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:23:00 - [253] Edited by: Hertford on 14/11/2007 11:23:54 > "Hay guyz, dictors and other ships fly too fast when rigged with polycarbons and the pilot has snakes implanted." > "OK, let's nerf the base speed of dictors." Zulupark, you're clueless. Sorry, really you are. If you believe for one second that dictors as they currently are don't have drawbacks (T1 resists, minimal HP, a mammoth sig radius) then I'd seriously recommend you go back to what you used to do in CCP and never come anywhere near game design again. And in all of this, the Flycatcher gets hit the hardest. It's the only dictor with one low slot, and pre-nerf that low slot was filled with a mandatory speed mod. Post-nerf, I dread to think what it'll be like flying one.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.14 12:37:00 - [254] yea, the flycatcher gets the shaft quite a bit... it should be a bit faster seeing as it cannot speed itself up even if it wants to... sitll a decent ship tho... caldari have the crow tho :P they cant have everything ;) make the sabre and eris both close (web) range blaster/auto gunboats, and the heretic and flycatcher long range (which they are) missile boats... i admit, the fly could use maybe a 7% speed increase.. but not too much as it will just be a meaner version of the crow. sabres, and eris, no matter how many turrets you give em.. will STILL be web ranged fighters.. meeaning they can still die like any other "tanked" destroyer with loads of guns _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Crae Matreki Blackstar Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.14 13:55:00 - [255] oooh - ouch! I guess now the only thing an interdictor can do is drop a sphere and cloak, then watch everyone else have all the fun. If Interdictors are now slow, does it mean players will no longer require Interceptors IV to fly one?
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.14 14:25:00 - [256] Originally by: Crae Matreki oooh - ouch! I guess now the only thing an interdictor can do is drop a sphere and cloak, then watch everyone else have all the fun. If Interdictors are now slow, does it mean players will no longer require Interceptors IV to fly one? no, now we will need racial industrial to lvl 4 instead i bet _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Formosus Funus omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.14 17:14:00 - [257] Cant fly Dictors but still make sense enough to say this nerf is crap. Sabres what are so fast with Snakes, poly's and Gistii MWD's and killing 4Km/s Ranis's (lol), so what. I mean, how much ISK does such a Sabre cost and how much does such an inty cost? Can people actually speccing in something this hard and spending their ISK on it get some sort of reward for it? Same as people crying about still excisting nano machs/phoons. They require craploads of ISK to be any effective but yet people complain they're overpowered. But this coming from a dev makes everything even more sad. Im now understanding for a full 110% why most GM's ban and dont reimburse ships as they've obviously no friggin clue what game mechanics are (Farscape and being banned for 'pos bowling' in his Machariel after the pos bowl nerf, anyone!?). Or the complete denial of de-sync (where as now they agree it excists). Or in this case, nerfing a complete shiptype because some people spend 5B+ on ONE OF THE 30M ships which beat T2 fitted and rigged inty's which cost about 150M max, and then Im not even on the drawbacks as many people already posted... Way to go, really. Can I suggest you train Caldari Frigate lvl 1 higher and actually play the game to understand it? Damn Actually Im already seeing a Vaga nerf coming at some point
Horribad	Posted - 2007.11.14 17:55:00 - [258] In case you havn't figured it out yet, this change is bad.
Horribad	Posted - 2007.11.14 18:56:00 - [259] This is horribad.
Toku Jiang Jiang Laboratories and Discovery	Posted - 2007.11.14 21:24:00 - [260] I thought that they were implementing the need for speed initiative, not the need to run this game into the ground with tons of useless and pointless nerfs initiative.
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.14 22:33:00 - [261] Seriously, why int he world would you want to nerf interdictors? Jesus.
McFly Path of Light R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.15 00:14:00 - [262] CCP, I like Eve I really do.... I recently finished training to fly my flycatcher with a bubble launcher, I've lost three and still bought a fourth becasue I really enjoy flying in the dictor role. I will be training for the heavy dictors as well. But here's my question. (pointing finger) Are you deliberatly nerfing dictors to force pilots to use Heavy dictors? The interdictor is supposed to be fast, It's almost insta popped by everything and their grandmother and now you have taken a chunk of it's only defense out. Speed is what keeps the interdictor safe. It MWD's into the field, drops it's bubble and runs before the missiles/turrets can catch up. Without the speed dictors are a 30mil mobile warp disrupter that last 120 seconds. That's all they've become, there's no point in fitting a tank or weapons, it's going to die 9 times out of 10 on the approach, so it most likely won't even be able to pop it's bubble before it's a wreck and the pilot's in a pod. I understand the idea of balancing but nerfing all the ships at once is not a good solution, they're pretty much broken now and all dictor pilots will be looking at their FC's thinking "not again" We'll become a one time use tissue and be hanging around the fight in a pod in our own bubble, waiting to be popped by an interceptor or someone's drones. How many dictors be used after this, not many..... Nerfs I supported Nos Nano ECM NERFs I could deal with... Curse Drones Scripts CCP Please Stop..... Logistics Pilgrim Dictors Carriers This game's becoming a different entity almost overnight, what's the point in keeping up? we're all going to lose in the end, How many SPs have to be wasted in specing a position in your PVP group before it's taken away? I've jumped from recon to recon, down to dictors, around to HAC's but seriously it seems any specialty is looked down on, all they want is for us to fly cerberuses, deal damage and die... don't use EW or specialized ships for their purposes, we wanted you to mount salvagers and cargo expanders to the sabre so it would be a great salvage ship, that would've been great, huh? Just slow down on all the nerfing, we're losing months in training everytime you swing the nerf bat. Eve's a great game, part of that greatness is being a valued pilot because you spec'd out on something to support your FC/Corp/Alliance... until the nerf bat showed up.... R0adKill - 'We Brake For Nobody' --my opinions do not reflect my corp nor my alliance--
Plekto Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.15 00:56:00 - [263] No, it was properly named. "Need for Speed" As in It will NEED Speed after they are done with making everything as slow as a turtle. Seriously CCP - just nerf the stupid implants and rigs. Before rigs, this wasn't a huge problem. Rigs are so broken that you can get an infinite cap HAC at 6.5K. with a full weapon loadout no less. Without the rigs, it's more like 2K, which won't outrun a No implants, no rigs - life would be MUCH better for everyone. but you're not going to get rid of themissile(as it should be)
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.11.15 21:59:00 - [264] Nerf the Sabre, not my Eris! It already goes down like a two dolla ho.
Johan Quinn	Posted - 2007.11.16 03:37:00 - [265] The attitude of CCP and its Devs SUCKS. The Sabre itself sisnt the problem, its the ******* implants and rigs that make them stupid fast. I fly dictors, including a Sabre and to get it going over 5km I need to spend: 35mil on the ship 80mil of Polys 100mil on a Gisti MWD Lots of cash on implants. Not being funny but when you spend that much dosh, I should be able to go super fast. A Sabre with normal t2 fitting and no rigs gives you just under 5kms without gang bonus. This is NOT fast. ITs the frigging speed implants and rigs that need changing, not the damn ships. With these changes the dictors cant even do what it says in its description: STRIKES AGAINST FRIGATE SIZED VESSELS. they should change it too: DICTORS ARE CRAP AGAINST ANYTHING. FFS a Vaga and even a stabber SHOULD NOT be able to outrun a smaller a lighter ship!!! I do agree that they should be slower than Ceptors (although with the new changes to them the Crow is near invincible). Slowest speed of the dcitors should be around 360-380ms period. This change is ASS!
eeeweeezeee Pastry Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.16 07:56:00 - [266] Originally by: Aceoil Why would you even CONSIDER a move like this. True, its on the test server and it could never see the light of Tranquility. But you SHOULD not consider this. This is a terrible terrible nerf. Interdictors will be a one shot bubble launcher and then dead. Who's bright idea was this? i cant recall them being anything more than a 1 shot bubble launcher in a fleet battle without the nerf. I have flown dictors since very shortly after they were released, and as one of the earliest dictor pilots in eve, I have seen all they have and had to offer. the nerf with bubble time was a major pain, it now costs a lot more to keep a gate bubbled than it used to because of the stupid timers. the only boost they ever got was a slight boost to cpu and power grid at the start of revelations II. this allowed me to change my setup around a little and push my flycatcher to about 3km/s, which is a low in comparison to others, but in my mind still acceptable speed. even still, any target that it could kill would run away before it could be killed, and anything that it was slow enough for me to catch would either kill me, or be invulnerable to my incredibly small amount of damage. the only thing the ship could kill was shuttles, tech 1 frigates, haulers, and extremely stupid interceptors that didn't imediately mwd away. the ship is about the best it has ever been right now in revelations II, which still isn't all that great, but its all I have really known how to participate in pvp with, and it looks like its getting nerfed. oh well and so much for a fun to fly small gang ship thats actualy in my wallet range to replace if I loose.
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.16 10:28:00 - [267] Originally by: Johan Quinn The attitude of CCP and its Devs SUCKS. The Sabre itself sisnt the problem, its the ******* implants and rigs that make them stupid fast. I fly dictors, including a Sabre and to get it going over 5km I need to spend: 35mil on the ship 80mil of Polys 100mil on a Gisti MWD Lots of cash on implants. Not being funny but when you spend that much dosh, I should be able to go super fast. A Sabre with normal t2 fitting and no rigs gives you just under 5kms without gang bonus. This is NOT fast. ITs the frigging speed implants and rigs that need changing, not the damn ships. With these changes the dictors cant even do what it says in its description: STRIKES AGAINST FRIGATE SIZED VESSELS. they should change it too: DICTORS ARE CRAP AGAINST ANYTHING. FFS a Vaga and even a stabber SHOULD NOT be able to outrun a smaller a lighter ship!!! I do agree that they should be slower than Ceptors (although with the new changes to them the Crow is near invincible). Slowest speed of the dcitors should be around 360-380ms period. This change is ASS! That's simply not true. A sabre with 2 cheap aux rigs and only rogue implants and a tech 2 MWD goes 5.5k in a gang. Sabre needed a massive speed nerf. The problem is how they done it. Seriously - did the Eris need a nerf? They should've focused on polycarbons first for sure because the ridiculous 10k+ sabres only got hat fast with those AND they break tons of other ships. Nanoishtar anyone? Personally i can live with the dictornerf. It's a gangship and was never intended to solo hunt down ceptors. It's not it's role. My problem is that they do this but totally ignore the polycarbon problem. Why do they "fix dictors" but allow my huginn to go 4k/second still?
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.16 10:37:00 - [268] Well, now the "new" dictors are nothing more than flying deathtraps. They can't tank, so speed was all that kept them alive long enough to fulfill their duty...now it'll just be a matter of finding the cheapest fittings because you will get primaried and wil die. Disposable super tackler, nothing more, nothing less. I agree that the Sabre's speed was maybe a bit over the tops (note: a bit)...but intstead of "adjusting" things, it seems as if the Devs have kicked all dictors in the balls, and poored gasoline over them when they were down just to light them on fire before ****ing on 'em to put out the fire again. It's an over-the-top nerf...once again. PS: This isn't meant to be a personal attack on the devs, it just seems that a lot of recent nerfs are over-the-top. I really appreciate what you did with a lot of good changes (drone commands, etc.), but some things just seem plain stupid _______________
xHomicide Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.16 11:22:00 - [269] Honestly, the sabre's speed isn't even that amazing as it stands. Its not even the fastest dictor. Anyways...none of the dictors are that amazingly fast. None of them compete with the speed of ceptors, like some people seem to suggest. Currently their speed sits between a ceptor and a cruiser...as one would assume. Post patch dictors will have the speed of cruisers, with the hp of a destroyer :\ Sadly, I have no idea why they would actually want to do this. I guess it is to add even more specialization than eve already has...which is pretty over the top already. As it stands dictors are there 90% for their tackling. If you drop several hundred mill in implants and rigs you buy the ability to watch the fight from on grid. --- Razor CEI
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.16 12:04:00 - [270] Originally by: xHomicide Honestly, the sabre's speed isn't even that amazing as it stands. Its not even the fastest dictor. Anyways...none of the dictors are that amazingly fast. None of them compete with the speed of ceptors, like some people seem to suggest. Currently their speed sits between a ceptor and a cruiser...as one would assume. Post patch dictors will have the speed of cruisers, with the hp of a destroyer :\ Sadly, I have no idea why they would actually want to do this. I guess it is to add even more specialization than eve already has...which is pretty over the top already. As it stands dictors are there 90% for their tackling. If you drop several hundred mill in implants and rigs you buy the ability to watch the fight from on grid. Come back to reality. Sabres can do close to 6k without polycarbs or snakes. 10k with snakes. Yes a vagabond ca n do that too. That does not mean that dictors are too slow. That only means vagas are too fast or any polycarb ship for that matter. Ships are too fast in general atm. Ceptors should be faster then dictors. Dictors should be faster then cruisers. That's what is happening after the dictor speed nerf. The only cruiser reaching dictor speed after this nerf is the vagabond.
xHomicide Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.16 14:22:00 - [271] Edited by: xHomicide on 16/11/2007 14:22:46 Originally by: MOS DEF Originally by: xHomicide Honestly, the sabre's speed isn't even that amazing as it stands. Its not even the fastest dictor. Anyways...none of the dictors are that amazingly fast. None of them compete with the speed of ceptors, like some people seem to suggest. Currently their speed sits between a ceptor and a cruiser...as one would assume. Post patch dictors will have the speed of cruisers, with the hp of a destroyer :\ Sadly, I have no idea why they would actually want to do this. I guess it is to add even more specialization than eve already has...which is pretty over the top already. As it stands dictors are there 90% for their tackling. If you drop several hundred mill in implants and rigs you buy the ability to watch the fight from on grid. Come back to reality. Sabres can do close to 6k without polycarbs or snakes. 10k with snakes. Yes a vagabond ca n do that too. That does not mean that dictors are too slow. That only means vagas are too fast or any polycarb ship for that matter. Ships are too fast in general atm. Ceptors should be faster then dictors. Dictors should be faster then cruisers. That's what is happening after the dictor speed nerf. The only cruiser reaching dictor speed after this nerf is the vagabond. right now: Assuming tech2, accel 4, nav 5, cy-1, my-1, and polycarbons the speeds are about: claw: 9.7km/s sabre: 6.5km/s (4.9km/s post patch) vagabond: 6.2km/s ares: 9.4km/s eris:6.7km/s (5.0km/s post patch) ishtar: 4.0km/s crow: 8.6km/s flycatcher: 4.6km/s (3.4km/s post patch) cerb: 3.3km/s malediction: 9.0km/s heretic: 6.4km/s (4.8km/s post patch) zealot: 4.2km/s ceptor average: 9.2km/s dictor average: 6.0km/s (4.5km/s) cruiser average: 4.4km/s are you ********? Currently dictor speeds sits in the middle of cruisers and ceptors (closer to cruisers really). Currently, no dictor is EVEN CLOSE to as fast as the slowest ceptors. Post patch dictors are dam near the speed of cruisers. On a speed scale of 1 to 10, 1 being cruisers and 10 beings ceptors. Dictors are currently basically a 4. Post patch, dictors will be a 1.1. --- Razor CEI
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.16 16:03:00 - [272] This is why I refuse to specialize in any one ship or role. I know that as soon as I did, it would be nerfed into being worthless and I'd be out a month of training. Farham: "Remember, sometimes evolution ends in extinction."
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.16 16:59:00 - [273] Edited by: MOS DEF on 16/11/2007 17:02:13 Ever thought about why they do this. Dictors are vital and extremely dangerous with their bubbles. Maybe the devs want to give people a chance to kill them. As it is you cannot. Got 220 kills on my current sabre and still going. I am not a great inty pilot. Wouldn't you think that is wrong? Just a bit? Everytime i activate my sabre i laugh my ass off because it is so overpowered. I can't believe they let it run loose for that long. Yes this nerf hits the other 3 dictors harder then it should. I don't agree how they done it either. I do think though that there needed somethign to be done. Edit: And i don't even use overpowered polycarbs on mine. Just cheap auxiliary + nanos setup is all it takes right now.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.16 18:17:00 - [274] Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 16/11/2007 17:02:13 Ever thought about why they do this. Dictors are vital and extremely dangerous with their bubbles. Maybe the devs want to give people a chance to kill them. As it is you cannot. Got 220 kills on my current sabre and still going. I am not a great inty pilot. Wouldn't you think that is wrong? Just a bit? Everytime i activate my sabre i laugh my ass off because it is so overpowered. I can't believe they let it run loose for that long. Yes this nerf hits the other 3 dictors harder then it should. I don't agree how they done it either. I do think though that there needed somethign to be done. Edit: And i don't even use overpowered polycarbs on mine. Just cheap auxiliary + nanos setup is all it takes right now. you, are not a true dictor pilot with that kind of attitude. if they follo wup iwth the nerfs, go back to your vagabond or stabber or whatever _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
McFly Path of Light R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.17 05:52:00 - [275] Edited by: McFly on 17/11/2007 05:54:01 There is a pilot in my alliance that has performed amazingly in a flycatcher during a pos war recently. An attacking fleet couldn't pop him, he wasn't insanely fast like some sabre's but he moved the right way to keep them from popping him dropped his bubbles and got back in the pos forcefield. A good skilled PVPer, doing his best. But slowing him down even more with flycatcher's agility is going to kill his ability to perform like that. This is what CCP seems to want, a one pop warp bubble. Granted you can be like the above and possibly still pull it off, but with that fraction of lost speed you have a flycatcher that basically is a paper thin cruiser, it handles like a cruiser already and now it's going to have the speed near one. As for the poor Eris, who's already completely worthless, I wouldn't be surprised if the price on these drops 30% or since they aren't going to be used often. If you want to nerf speed on the dictors, drop their sig radius, or at least give them some T2 resists... dictor pilots are barely able to get kills as it is, now they will lose points on their respected killboards in almost every engagement. Yes I said KB, becuase I don't play Eve for the mining or pos warfare I play it for the gangs and the kills. I love to blow **** up. That's what's fun about eve for me, I don't want to stop flying dictors, but what's the point if I can't kill anything already, and now I'll lose a minimum of 30mil every time I get in a fight. Granted bubbles have their tactical advantage, but an FC will be asking his fleet "no one brought a dictor? Oh yah, can't blame you..." CCP please don't kill all my ships....I'm tired of training for something to lose it's usefulness. And don't talk about big risk = big gain because giving up a 30mil+ ship every engagement for a 2 minute bubble and dying 9/10 times...that's not risk, that's just a waste. If you want specialized roles, allow them to be entertaining.... that's what eve is supposed to be. Not frustration every three weeks because your spec'd out ship lost it's ability to stay alive for more than 2 secs.... R0adKill - 'We Brake For Nobody' --my opinions do not reflect my corp nor my alliance--
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.11.17 06:49:00 - [276] Edited by: Leon 026 on 17/11/2007 06:51:32 lol @ a cruiser being just as fast, if not faster than an interdictor. Quite sad :/ Welp, looks like dictors are going to be nothing more than one-trick bubble-monkeys with no other purpose. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Nervo	Posted - 2007.11.17 07:15:00 - [277] CCP please don't kill dictor as ships
Mr Broker Amarr Station Gremlings	Posted - 2007.11.17 07:39:00 - [278] ccp is decided that only rich players should accomplish anything in eve, isk farmers are going to make a big return
Nytemaster Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.11.17 15:27:00 - [279] Did anyone bother to check if the signature radius on dictors is less on Sisi than on TQ?
Sauromugue	Posted - 2007.11.17 16:37:00 - [280] Shame CCP never listens to a damn thing anyone ever says about anything.
War Bear Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.18 02:56:00 - [281] Edited by: War Bear on 18/11/2007 02:57:15 Un-f'ing-real. I JUST finished Dictors 5 and found this thread. Thanks for killing my favorite ship ccp, no really, I cherish the thought of being called primary now with a ship that has over 100m/s less base speed. I'm not some rich jackass that puts gist-a mwd or polys or snakes into his Sabre. My ship is usually a primary target and if not for anything resembling a speed tank I'd get nuked instantly. Hell I still manage to get nuked quite frequently regardless. Also I thought destroyers and their t2 variants were supposed to be great anti frig ships. So much for trying to get a web on an interceptor then yeah? Thanks guys. No really. The past couple of weeks polishing off Dictors 5 is going to look great collecting dust when I end up moving to another ship because I'm tired of getting one volleyed. Everything is funny with the Benny Hill theme song
Hachou Minmatar XMX Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.19 03:58:00 - [282] After dictors nerf my sleipnir (with skirmish implant and warfare modules of course) will have better speed then my sabre... As well as my Huginn (withou any bonuses even). Is that right? What t2 destroyer wouldn't be able to escape from command even if not webbed? Or you gona nerf speed of all minmatar ships? In last case what minmatar will have? Matars haven't as good tank or damage as other races. It's only advantage is speed.... You killing solo pvp. You also killing pvp in small gangs. While huge battles still laggy as hell and not interesting bcos lag. We gona have dead pvp in eve. In that case it's probably better to play some economic game.
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.19 09:56:00 - [283] This change sucks CCP, you are really going mad with the nerf bat here I mean why?, why would you want to make a paperthin bulletmagnet fly as fast or slower then a cruiser . If this change goes through you need to reduce the base speeds of ALL larger ships by 25% or this becomes unbalanced where a cruiser overtakes a dictor :/ *signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected])
Odin Starwanderer Russian SOBR Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.19 10:30:00 - [284] 3 days until dictors 5 Can i has cheesburger instead? :) __________________ If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition.
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.20 08:23:00 - [285] Can we just go the whole way and make it so that deploying a dictor bubble self-destructs your ship? The problem is the cumulative effect of stacking speed mods on top of speed rigs (especially polycarbs) on top of speed implants, not a problem with the base speed of the dictor itself. Relegating one class of speed-ship to the dustbin rather than looking at the balance of snakes'n'nanos combat as a whole seems a bizarrely short sighted approach.
Sir Atkinson	Posted - 2007.11.20 12:55:00 - [286] WAKE UP CCP! This is a very long thread of flaming this change. This is clearly not what the people want. An interdictor is not too fast unless you strap it up with 125 mill worth of rigs and modules and then you need 50 mill worth of implants on top of that. When you spend 220 mill on a small, untanked and very web vulnerable ship, you should at least be entitled to some form of protection (SPEED). This ship will be an anti shuttle-ship after this change. Every single AF will be better and the vagabond will be the new jazz all over again. Make this change and fleet battles will never be the same again. The big capital-ship losses that we all marvel over will disappear into oblivion. The game will become more uneven for all the players and corps who don't use capitals. Capitals will spread and spread and the game will ultimately become boring and pointless. I kindly ask you to reconsider this nerf.
Agif Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.20 14:20:00 - [287] CCP = STUPID the answer on the tip of all our tongues is :- YES
Agif Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.20 14:26:00 - [288] Sorry for double post but was just watching eve TV about the new changes to dictors and abilty with using scripts etc to tackle motherships Titans... But with the upcoming nerf alot of people will not be flying dictors anymore so your so called balancing is flawed. Or am i wrong?
haq aan Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:46:00 - [289] Is there any official reason announced by CCP ? Well if not, unfortunately EvE is going downhill day by day. Hiring some new guys who are not actually players, and expect them carry EvE to a better level just AINT working. Coz they will be smoking so much weed, financed indirectly by CCP, and will be comin up with brilliant(!) ideas about a game that none of em played enough. fly safe, haq aan
Horribad	Posted - 2007.11.22 07:46:00 - [290] I think its fair to assume this change was some kind of joke by CCP. We all got a good laugh out of it, you can change the dictors back now.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.22 09:31:00 - [291] Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 22/11/2007 09:32:34 tbh, I'm hoping people show their displeasure by voting with their feet. yeah, we all know how much actual good "Think Tanks" do for everyone. Just a room full of hired ass kissers with no experience at all who think they are experts. This is evident by Script, Dictor Nerf, and Carrier changes. THUKKER -Be Paranoid Skeet Skeet L33t
Parfait M	Posted - 2007.11.22 12:19:00 - [292] Edited by: Parfait M on 22/11/2007 12:20:25 Edited by: Parfait M on 22/11/2007 12:19:32 Way to step up and tell us what was going through your heads when you thought this stupid idea up, CCP, other than "Oh well it bubbles so let's nerf it, lulz". Not. Guess what? I can anchor bubbles with my BATTLESHIP. D'oh, shouldn't have told them! Here comes the nerf!!
Jallem Sims Minmatar Exploring Blind	Posted - 2007.11.23 15:31:00 - [293] its sad to see no reply from any dev.... and this many posts! can we get some answers plz?
Aaron Min Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.24 03:50:00 - [294] just want to add to the long line of "This is a bad idea" posters. Sabre doesn't need a nerf it is supposed to be faster as its minmatar, and that is supposed to be the minmatar thing. However it would be nice if the other dictors were given some buff to make them competitive with the sabre. Destroyers suck, dictors don't. Dictors will. :(. At least I can fly a heavy dictor. At least the price on sabres will drop, and I won't have to spend 300 mil every time I lose one.
Miss Hue	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:19:00 - [295] Just want to add, im almost ready to hang up my 3 eve accounts. I have trained for so many things, only to have them nerf'd days before/after i get to use them.... for all the screwing my over, you never once seem to look at the even larger issue, with any success which is the lag.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.29 04:47:00 - [296] no way im letting this thread get buried untill we get a dev response regarding dictors /bump _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
trust trd Amarr Haven Front	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:38:00 - [297] Yeah, this nerf sucks. I agree it is fast so I could see a 5-10% speed nerf so it does not hunt down intys, but not 25%. The dictor is routinely primaried first because of its special abilities and speed is its main way of survival when everyone starts targeting you. There was a reason why you guys gave it such a high base speed, not sure why this has to change. Maybe it is because of the HIC so now there is another option? Whatever the reason I do not agree with, but I say this in vain as I know there is no way you guys will change your stance.
Khyara	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:44:00 - [298] This might have been said somewhere in the 11 pages (I stopped reading after 3 - there, I admit it), but with the new ARM scripts its unlikely any BS will be hitting any interdictor any time soon (I went for an 'any' record in that sentence). I imagine the lock time on dictors from a BS will skyrocket, so dont worry about those. The fact that you cant even come close to an inty is pretty rediculous. Whats more funny is my craptacular over-priced moon tour operating vehicle, The Curse, (which has been changed to a 'civllian class' ship now btw) can go about as fast as a dictor. Now thats funny. Of course I could only catch up to you and wave anyways. Anyhoo - not sure if I want Trinity anymore, the nerf-ness of this 'Upgrade' (And I use that term lightly) is unparalleled. Seriously, CCP - maybe, just Maybe, in the future before you start throwing us all sorts of modules, and fancy new ships and skills, you might want to think through a few of them. Maybe consult some of your more devious players on how they would tweak the crap out of their ship to fully exploit the build, and then see if it fits in with your vision for EVE. Then just maybe you wouldnt have to do a full scale Nerf on just about every class in the game a couple months later because you dropped the ball. Seriously - this is just irresponsible. You've wasted more man years of your players time training now useless skills than Egyptians did building pyramids (ok a little extreme but you get the idea...and yes they look neat and all, but what do they really DO?)
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.29 07:35:00 - [299] Originally by: trust trd Yeah, this nerf sucks. I agree it is fast so I could see a 5-10% speed nerf so it does not hunt down intys, but not 25%. The dictor is routinely primaried first because of its special abilities and speed is its main way of survival when everyone starts targeting you. There was a reason why you guys gave it such a high base speed, not sure why this has to change. Maybe it is because of the HIC so now there is another option? Whatever the reason I do not agree with, but I say this in vain as I know there is no way you guys will change your stance. dictors already cannot catch a ceptor, unless.. the ceptor is not speed fitted, in which case they should just fly an AF the ceptor is a cheap speed fit, and the dictor is 300million (gistii and polys) and gawd knows what implants... i can EASILY get a ceptor going 10km+ without too much invesment, no dictor, unless he has a claymore in gang, or full snakes, or overheating can catch up to that,,, and by all means, if someone wants to put that much into a dictor, let them, i know how easily they die regardless of speed. a couple speed intys with at least one web on him, will be the death of him to the rest of the gang, heck, even two taranis can take down dictors so yea, people whine that thye loose intys to dictors... well dont be a cheap arse, and you wont loose you inty!!!!!! _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Rogbot	Posted - 2007.11.29 08:05:00 - [300] Originally by: Khyara This might have been said somewhere in the 11 pages (I stopped reading after 3 - there, I admit it), but with the new ARM scripts its unlikely any BS will be hitting any interdictor any time soon (I went for an 'any' record in that sentence). I imagine the lock time on dictors from a BS will skyrocket, so dont worry about those. Battleships in fleet fights don't target interdictors usually, it's the anti-support that does. (BC's, HACs, rapiers/huginns etc) I've been flying interdictors for a long time now, and as it stands on tranq right now they are the least survivable ships in the game. They have very few hitpoints, and to boot they are -ALWAYS- primaried first, no exceptions. All this change will mean is that I won't have the 30% chance I had before to burn out of my own bubble and warp off. If someone could post some justification for this change it would be nice, because interdictors are not overpowered at all on tranq right now. They're very fragile and only good at killing frigates solo (as t2 destroyers should be), and in fleets they're good for bubbling and that's it.
Jallem Sims Minmatar Exploring Blind	Posted - 2007.11.29 10:06:00 - [301] its about time the user base of eve gets some kind of reasoning for these changes??
Illminatis	Posted - 2007.12.03 08:03:00 - [302] I really don't mind if you make HACtors the new dictor, and make dictors a ship that now just drop bubbles and cloak...but at least make them cheaper, give them a bonus to cloaking, and take off all their turrets. Make it a 5mil, cloaking, bubbling machine with a tractor beam and salvaging bonus. Also, props on nerfing the sabre and keeping the vagabond uber - the vagabond does take longer to train so you can keep these little fishes on the line a little bit longer. Seriously, why don't you take your head out of your butt and just make the eris/heretic suck less. Dictors on TQ aren't overpowered, they are the first to die. Ceptors are faster than dictors across the board, and now you're even boosting ceptors. Reconsider this change, it's ******. Either that, or go all the way and make dictors disposable cloaking/salvaging/bubble dropping ships and stop ***footing around. Actually, you're better off just taking them out of the game entirely.
Edward Drakiel	Posted - 2007.12.06 04:10:00 - [303] I'd be happy i f the speed hit was actually 25%, but the hit I saw was far bigger than that, it was over 30% at the least. So what's the real reason for this....dev response would be great.
McFly Path of Light R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.07 09:35:00 - [304] bumping cuz I want a dev response... With the above I like the idea of making the dictor into a salvager instead, I've been running my alt in a cormorant, with tractor beams and salvagers since Rev I came out last year. So if Hactors are going to be the new dictor, quit ****ing around and make the Interdictors into Scavengers...give them tractor beam range bonuses, no turrets/bays, cargo bonus and a chance to salvage bonus. Hell you could even go crazy and give them the ability to launch probes, and make them the designated exploration ship. -- --my opinions do not reflect that of my corp nor my alliance--
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.07 16:39:00 - [305] bump, CCP, what kind of customer service is this? you have a HUGE part of the community just wanting a simple response. WHY have you not given us one yet... also.. by reading all the threads on your website, i can see the majority of the community does not like the change to dictors. so may i also ask 'why are you changing something that noone wants changed?' i'm aware that yes you guys make and create the game. and i apreciate that. its the best mmo ive played since i was 14 (13 years ago) ... but in the end, you want to keep your customers happy, and nerfing the dictors is not one way of doing it. please, seriously. communicate with your customers _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 16:52:00 - [306] Gotta love how CCP listens to it's customers. It's like the French Revolution. Mobs scream that they are being screwed while the nobility fob them off as whiny gimps for not being rich and blessed like them. I can imagine CCP devs giggling amongst each other and saying "Let them buy snakes". It's the only way. THUKKER -Be Paranoid Skeet Skeet L33t
Black Jumper Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.12.07 21:04:00 - [307] Edited by: Black Jumper on 07/12/2007 21:05:13 This change just sucks : i don't have the means to buy myself Snake implants. I just have 15M skillpoints and dictors were the best way to have fun. Sure it was speedy : 6300m/s sabre with polycarbon (which makes a ship around what ... 145M ? yeahh of course ; a ship this expensive is totally overpowered). What was i making with thisspeed ? Well put myself in harm's way : damages were only done at close range (which means web and / or neutralizers) so if i wanted to do damge it was a pretty expensie risk taken. Now what ? Well you wanna survive ? you have to fit a cloak. Allright then give interdictors covops capability then ... This change just is totally useless and maes thegame just even less fun to play as your whole changes (what the hell with logistic role of carriers ? **** your T2 freighters ...)
McFly Path of Light R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.08 04:09:00 - [308] another bump....is there a limit to pages for a single topic cuz this one is headed for the limit... -- --my opinions do not reflect that of my corp nor my alliance--
Ragnar Anchor Minmatar Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.08 08:31:00 - [309] Was thinking about training dictors...now Im thinking this game has been hit with a few nerfbats too many. I have only complained about something on this forum one other time, and I will have to jump head first onto this bandwagon. Bad call CCP. Bad Call.
R0ot Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.10 09:50:00 - [310] Since a few people have started new threads on this thought I really should bring this one back up, Originally by: "R0ot" As my fellow interdictor pilots in this thread have already stated, the speed nerf to all dictors we can handle (although if your not flying a sabre it would appear your screwed) but this aggro crap with the bubbles and the speed nerf combined makes the interdictor a very expensive "one shot bubble dropper". Why one shot you say? Well re-approach gate drop bubble, someone tries warping/cancel someones warp aggression on dictor gained, dictor locked and dictor dead. RESTORE THE DICTORS SPEED OR REMOVE THE AGGRO BUBBLE! The fact that the aggro bubble has neither been mentioned in the patch notes or known issues makes it a low way to introduce this into the game, it looks like CCP didn't want another revolt about a proposed nerf. ------------------------------------------------------------------
Uedel Minmatar Lyonesse. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.10 11:52:00 - [311] bump and agree, the nerf was tooo much Well my cheap bellicose with more dmg is now even as fast as my sabre wich is much more expensive and took much longer to train and has much weaker tank. This is Ballancing i like, --> "Hey u can fly a cheap Cruiser skilled in 20 Days or fly a Sabre skilled in 150 Days and costs 10 times as much and do the same as with your cruiser......" very logical......... This Curse leads from Rock, Scissors, Paper into Rock, Rock, Rock game anything have to be the same.......
McFly Path of Light R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.11 05:55:00 - [312] Bumping again.....Devs this needs to be addressed.... -- --my opinions do not reflect that of my corp nor my alliance--
deadok Amarr Guards of Heavens Door Absolute Guardians Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.11 10:11:00 - [313] Carebeareing since patch... Give us speed. And more Oomph to Heretic, and Pilgrim too.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora	Posted - 2007.12.11 11:54:00 - [314] Originally by: McFly bumping cuz I want a dev response... With the above I like the idea of making the dictor into a salvager instead, I've been running my alt in a cormorant, with tractor beams and salvagers since Rev I came out last year. So if Hactors are going to be the new dictor, quit ****ing around and make the Interdictors into Scavengers...give them tractor beam range bonuses, no turrets/bays, cargo bonus and a chance to salvage bonus. Hell you could even go crazy and give them the ability to launch probes, and make them the designated exploration ship. Flycatcher is gonna be a "evil" black salvaging ship now on meh missions
Tawrich Tistrya	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:40:00 - [315] You know this whole speed nerf isn't a bad thing aslong as : A.) we no longer call them interdictors B.) get rid of them being able to use the bubbles C.) we give them a bonus to tractor beam range D.) increase cargo bay a bit E.) call them dedicated salvagers I have just finished training interdictor on my alt account primarily to use as a fancier version of my previously used catalyst as dedicated salvager. In this regard i'm happy with it. It's a bit faster , has a bit more cargo bay and looks nicer. Will i ever be thinking of using it for anything else? with the current state of my eris : HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder what will get fcked up , i mean addressed and improved coughliescough , next. I've only been in this game for about a year now , and lately i've been wondering if the game wasn't better when i first started , wasn't perfect then aggreed , but nerf after nerf later you have to wonder if it actually was a good thing. TBH , though i stil enjoy the game and will continue playing ( for now anyway ) , i get the feeling that i enjoyed it more back then ( and not just because it was new and shiney for me then ). On a side note , tier 2 dictor with salvaging role bonus anyone ?
Shaala Caldari Singularity Services	Posted - 2007.12.12 07:05:00 - [316] Interdictors were never meant to be speedboats. You still have the possibility of jumping out or flying away a minute before the enemy fleet arrives at your gate. The stone-scissors-paper principle in Eve never meant that every ship has a possibility to defend against/escape all other ships. The Interdictor is a tool for using in a team anyway. It was totaly ridiculous a 240km sniping anti-supportship like an eagle not being able to shoot down a good Sabre pilot before it reached him; and only a fool would complain about a nerf before having a look at what his natural enemy ships were nerfed like. Besides, as a Dictor pilot there are enough opportunities to make very good usage of the ship without ever even encountering the enemy. regards
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.12 13:12:00 - [317] Originally by: Shaala Interdictors were never meant to be speedboats. You still have the possibility of jumping out or flying away a minute before the enemy fleet arrives at your gate. The stone-scissors-paper principle in Eve never meant that every ship has a possibility to defend against/escape all other ships. The Interdictor is a tool for using in a team anyway. It was totaly ridiculous a 240km sniping anti-supportship like an eagle not being able to shoot down a good Sabre pilot before it reached him; and only a fool would complain about a nerf before having a look at what his natural enemy ships were nerfed like. Besides, as a Dictor pilot there are enough opportunities to make very good usage of the ship without ever even encountering the enemy. regards actually yes they were supposed to be speed boats, but thanks for coming. your sniping eagle should be able to kill anything withotu someone else webbing it... otherwise... maybe your eagle could use a nerf. unnerf our dictor, 90% of eve is unhappy with this change _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Trigos Trilobi Man-Eating Village Idiots	Posted - 2007.12.12 13:59:00 - [318] Originally by: Andreya actually yes they were supposed to be speed boats, but thanks for coming. your sniping eagle should be able to kill anything withotu someone else webbing it... otherwise... maybe your eagle could use a nerf. unnerf our dictor, 90% of eve is unhappy with this change Actually, looking at the amount of empire dwellers vs 0.0 people in that recent dev blog, I'd say 90% of EVE are indifferent and/or ignorant about this change, but I appreciate your gross overstatement nevertheless!
Jagerin Gallente Xenobytes Stain Empire	Posted - 2007.12.12 15:27:00 - [319] /signed Un-nerf us please :) And boost a bit flycatcher speed & Eris turrets Flycatcher - missiles long, heretic - missile short range. Sabre - close range, so give Eris 7 turrets & PG for 125mm rails
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.12.12 19:00:00 - [320] This nerf would not be as bad or as badly critisized if all other nano-capable ships were uniformly nerfed. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Sioluk Minmatar Oser's Shipping and Manufacturing Inc. Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.12.12 19:10:00 - [321] i actually stopped flying dictors when i heard about this nerf. Hyena for me, from here on, longer range web, flies FASTER, locks just as fast, doesn't do quite as much dps, but hey, 18-20km web is okay with me. i hate your logic sometimes ccp, you have a great game that you keep messing up. [-Sio-] Oser's Shipping and Manufacturing Inc., CEO Endless Horizon
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.13 18:16:00 - [322] bump, still waiting on ccp to let us know why they nerfed a class without explanation _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
VenomCoil Eth3real Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:57:00 - [323] This is not going away CCP. Revert the change. Interceptor propulsion jamming cap use reduction bonus means they don't need a CPR anymore, freeing a low for another speed mod, so you effectively buffed their speed and nerfed dictors unnecessarily.
Jallem Sims Minmatar Exploring Blind	Posted - 2007.12.14 13:18:00 - [324] Edited by: Jallem Sims on 14/12/2007 13:18:15 bump cause what he said on the page before edit... \o/ page 12!
R0ot Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:42:00 - [325] I'm one page (without a dev response) from writing a rather angry email. Whoever came up with the idea that an interdictor shouldn't be able to bubble a group, with its already paper thin tank, of ships and maybe live long enough to either jump away or run away or heaven forbid use more than one bubble, needs there head examind. I mean seriously have they flown interdictors? Ever? In a fleet? In a small gang? Because (bad english here) it doesn't fecking look like it! ------------------------------------------------------------------
Goca KAOS. Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.12.14 21:11:00 - [326] Originally by: R0ot I'm one page (without a dev response) from writing a rather angry email. Whoever came up with the idea that an interdictor shouldn't be able to bubble a group, with its already paper thin tank, of ships and maybe live long enough to either jump away or run away or heaven forbid use more than one bubble, needs there head examind. I mean seriously have they flown interdictors? Ever? In a fleet? In a small gang? Because (bad english here) it doesn't fecking look like it! ALOT of us have been seriously wondering if CCP has actually EVER flown the ships they nerfed in this last patch.. Oh well they got their 40k plus online on a Sunday (most likely 10-15k players (half farmers) and their alts), wtf do they care about what's said here?
Sorela Gallente Fade to Black Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.18 09:52:00 - [327] From what they said in the dev blog it sounds like they feel all forms of speed need to be heavily nerfed. Apparently they just felt that because dictors can bubble that they should make a quick and dirty change even if it totally ruins the ship. Seems like the Dev's didn't know what was going on and finally realized how fast people were going and they made a crappy knee jerk nerf change.
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:08:00 - [328] Originally by: Sorela From what they said in the dev blog it sounds like they feel all forms of speed need to be heavily nerfed. Apparently they just felt that because dictors can bubble that they should make a quick and dirty change even if it totally ruins the ship. Seems like the Dev's didn't know what was going on and finally realized how fast people were going and they made a crappy knee jerk nerf change. Its ccp's way of making the hic more useful, instead of making it good, just nerf the competition, trust ccp to make stuff harder by making it time consuming and annoying instead. It's great being Amarr isn't it. Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.18 16:08:00 - [329] bump wheres our dev team response, please return our dictors to their previous state, i spent 95% of my time in eve in dictors, (heretic and sabre, and a little bit of flycatcher) ... and well now. i just dont play eve that much no more, i tried them new EWAR frigs, but they just dont do it for me. Eve is getting frusterating _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:37:00 - [330] wow, so i listend to the live dev blog... and basically zulupark said interdictors are meant to die. you warp in, and bubble, then get webbed and die. thanks zulupark, your logic amazes me once again. can i have my SP back that i trained for dictors V ? cause they way you thought processes work, i wont live long enough to drop another bubble after those 60 seconds anyways. barely anyone complained about dictors, speed in general was the problem. did you loose too many ships to being bubbled or something? you said a specialty webbing ship cant web the dictors, because they will coast through their web range? i can honestly say thats BULL**** send one inty after a dictor, with the rest of the fleet shooting it, the dictor will instapop. a speed reduction was NOT nessesary. specially with the hyenas kicking around. think about the poeple who actually fly smaller ships zulu _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Gordon Red SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2007.12.23 14:30:00 - [331] I bet Zulu's secret EVE-char flies a MOM... (or a T1 industial )
Goshinko State War Academy	Posted - 2007.12.23 17:04:00 - [332] Absolutely genius. I'm **ing begging one of the lead devs to remove Zulupark, he's ruining Eve. Damn, if anything can out-tank what it's scrambling, I guess we should nerf those too, because they can scramble forever? Originally by:** IHeartYou However, Crows seem to suit me best because it's just so much fun to toy with your target, then own them with your 150-200dps.
Dark 0men Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.12.23 20:32:00 - [333] Hey, Zulupark, if dictors are meant to die after dropping one bubble, how come the launcher holds 10?
Hertford Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.23 21:03:00 - [334] Originally by: Dark 0men Hey, Zulupark, if dictors are meant to die after dropping one bubble, how come the launcher holds 10? Oh man, that's class.
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.23 22:57:00 - [335] Just gonna throw in a /sign, they need the extra speed to survive.
JForce The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.23 23:18:00 - [336] You guys are perfect stereotype of Eve-whiners. The ship you fly gets nerfed, and you instantly threaten to kill yourselves if it isn't reversed. Have you considered that Dictors are still uber-fast? They're still pretty damn quick, they're just not invincible fast anymore. But the main thing you need to think about is the fact that the bubble you drop is often the key to dozens of people dying. It's not like they nerfed your speed and left you with nothing. Your role is entirely intact. The fact you get primaried is an indication of how serious a threat you're seen as. Would you rather the bubble didn't do anything? That way no one would bother shooting you, and you'd be happy?
Hab0k	Posted - 2007.12.24 02:15:00 - [337] And exactly how fast do you think we go?
Jallem Sims Minmatar Exploring Blind	Posted - 2007.12.24 10:06:00 - [338] I hear of another nerf? being playing lite* recently, kinda a big kick with the dictor nerf. For those that site and mention the whining eve players, its just that to use the sphere launcher requires heavy training too. It simply requires serious dedication. Yes most Dictor pilots (with gun skills) tend to go for a sabre, but not all, due to a lot of people specilising for the Crow (which uses Missile launchers). The are a lot of reasons highlighted above and in most 'whine' threads to do with this nerf... but are friendly Dev does not really read this cause as someone highlighted (i think so too) he must have been FC'ing and lost a fleet of BS to a top Pilot, or lost his mom due to a bubble. sadly, as i have specilised for this for the last 3 months or more (i forget when i started boosting my skills for an interdictor) i only got about 3 weeks flying pre nerf, and it was so much fun!! Yes, i have topped out my skills for this... i do have lvl5 in acceleration control, full implants.... i fly at times with faction gear. topping out my gun skills, but due to me being young, i still have lots to learn, such as sheild skills.... I have even gone out my way to try many different set ups to see if the known standard is the best. Cause, if you actually fly one of these ships, you need to be at your optimal or die! And you spend ages thinking and testing. However... now i fly my inty more again... its not as fun, but atleast it makes sense to put my speed skills to good use. And now, i smile when i am tackling nano hacs. Also, notice how sabre prices are dropping... more Heavy Dictors being used... less call for dictor pilots. Just the way it is now, i have no doubt both could have played a role and made fleet battles interesting with more options. But, i think i will still fly it.... just not my uber set up unless i go solo. WHICH REALLY makes me smile.. cause all this was about how Dictors sit on gates solo tackling Inties.... Guess what, unless you fly a 10k inty, i'll still get you ;-D All this has done, is increased the gap between noobs and high skill training players.... So... to conclude, its either my stupid fast inty, or my stupid fast dictor! Keep Nerfing Dev! I'll see you in space when i tackle you and smile when you smack! Most likly when you fly your nano hac # more nerfs to speed, noobs will die more in 0.0.... they have less options to train for now... ##note, one day we'll all be flying the same ship again, and again, and again, cause everyone likes to fly the best :P you loose!
Shin Mao Caldari AFC Death or Glory	Posted - 2007.12.25 00:51:00 - [339] Dictors must not be interceptors on steroids, but speed nerf make them one-off ship. Maybe add some reasonable bonuses? 10% signature reduction per skill level, for example, and cut slightly base signature 20-30%. Or give them special AB bonus, it will be working on them 200 - 400% better, not fast enough to catch inty, but fast enough to drop probe and run away alive. X-ray nuclear pumped laser:
Uncle Smokey	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:57:00 - [340] Ah come on, even if flycatcher and sabre are practically immobile, you can still catch t1's and afs with eris and heretic ;D Have some sense of humor, its a good joke. I have. ...and i never specialized in dictors :D That "need for speed" must refer to a narcotic addiction rather than any ingame effect .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. \o/ EVERYBODY SAY HELL YEAH! \o/
Sioluk Minmatar Oser's Shipping and Manufacturing Inc. Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:55:00 - [341] bumpy bumpy ccp, we, the pilots of dictors in this farce you call eve online, want a proper response to the nerf of interdictors. many agree that there are 'special cases' where a pilot may spent hundreds of millions (up to billions) to make this ship class deadly, but in reality, most pilots are not willing or capable of spending that kind of isk to have the ultimate small car. With MWD, a dictor is the size of a damn battleship. If flown by a competant pilot, they could do some amazing things, but not everyone is a 'master' of thier ship. Give us a response on why you nerfed Dictors, of all things, rather than just bringing polycarbs and implants in-line. I used to be fairly confident in flying my sabre, but now i wont even purchase another. i'd rather fly a hyena with my alt in a crow or raptor because really, its far more effective... and about the same cost to fit those two ships as it was to BUY my damn sabre. the lack of response in this matter, through 12 pages of complaints about this nerf, makes us believe you either a) dont care. b) can't come up with a proper reason/excuse on the nerf. To say that dictors needed a drawback for its speed/role, is like saying you've never flown one as a pilot with average skills would, and/or you've just plain not flown one period. okay okay... Or you've been ganked because you, yourselves dont know how to fly your own ships and let people who have specialized for this ship class spank you. It disgusts me that you have not replied to this thread to explain to your subscribers why this nerf was needed.. and seriously.. ALL dictors? wtf are you thinking? To Zulupark: dont quit your day job, your endless 'reasoning' for nerfing various ships is pathetic. Formulate an adequate answer, or get someone who understands Public relations to do it for you to post with. because you dont deserve your position in game design based on the stuff we have seen you do to this game, and the responses you have given people when questioned. ------- [-Sio-] Oser's Shipping and Manufacturing Inc., CEO Endless Horizon
Jagerin Gallente Xenobytes Stain Empire	Posted - 2007.12.26 22:39:00 - [342] >With MWD, a dictor is the size of a damn battleship. If flown by a competant pilot, they could do some amazing things, but not everyone is a 'master' of thier ship. You are wrong, with MWD they are more like moons Give dictors old speed, boost Eris (7 turrets, -1 low +1 med)& Flycatcher (a bit more base speed than before), or give professional inty pilots something new - maybe tier2 dictors, without bubler buth with nice speed & firepower (better give dictors old speed)
stahmul	Posted - 2007.12.27 10:03:00 - [343] Zulupark is a pathetic excuse for a dev. He's only shown just how clueless he is about the issues at hand. I really wish CCP wouldn't post up on MonsterJobs.com to find themselves their employees. It'd be nice if they actually played the game before they were hired in to do balancing work. Flat-out, Trinity is a mess. The patching was a mess (and in itself a pathetic excuse for a release [We followed the instructions on our installer scripts, WE SWEAR!!! IT JUST DIDN'T WORK RIGHT!!]) Granted, the extra 10 days was nice (but my roommate who didn't install Premium got 14 days free and my second account got none? wtg CCP. Suuree, I'll re-subscribe cause you sent me mail telling me about all the great stuff Trinity has!!) but an extra 10 days isn't going to make me want to play the game anymore than I already don't. Speed on a greater scale hasn't been nerfed again yet and I still see the game as a waste of time. The whole "committing to the fight" methodology is geared at the game being a perpetual isk and time sink at best. I mean, did you ever wonder why CCP wants you to commit to a fight and destroy or lose a ship? It's simple, you have to play more then, spend more money, to replace the isk in the economy that's now gone. This means their flawed game model can make you spend more time doing mindless tasks like ratting, mining, t2 production (of which I've ceased on my end /w my bpos because of the utter failure that was the t2 component market after Trinity) The best part of the t2 component market is it was warned that there would be shortages--- So CCP took it one step further and **** up all the silos and reactors so things would really be a mess. Letting POS wars happen with the 0rof bug still in effect? then telling people they'd be banned if they used it? What the **? They didn't hear about it through the forums? Most of us here knew about the POS bugs entirely before they were banned, and... CCP bans POS warfare without any clue as to what was really going wrong? All that aside, I agree with my main manlove Hab0k. It's sad when a battlecruiser can go faster than an interdictor. The only reason being CCP wasn't inventive enough to give us useful t2 ship classes so instead they made other ship classes even less desirable on a large scale to make way for some half-assed excuse for a new ship? At least now it runs in Linux, and if it doesn't do so well? Who cares; We'll all be in turtle tanked battleships or in carriers fighter drone spamming three months down the line. You don't need any more than 5fps to f1, f2, f3......
Hab0k	Posted - 2007.12.29 22:32:00 - [344] This is actualy making me laugh! You dont understand what this is doing to you? CCP, your getting slammed for what you have done and you have no answer or fix to it... Not even a damn pilots-comp to support the thing as a half and half type thing! You dont answer because you cant! And thats the truth... but this thorn in your side is not going away... and it will continue to Become infected!
Hab0k	Posted - 2007.12.31 04:20:00 - [345] Every day i will make this go to the top every day because i will personaly make sure
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.31 06:46:00 - [346] I myself wont let this slide either... CCP cant even give up a reply, or even their thoughts as to why they think a dictor nerf a warrented. i know they probably wont read this far into our thread. but lemme at least try one suggestion instead (ignoring all the garbage that came out of zulu's mouth on that live dev blog) people complain about speed.. in general. im a nano pilot, i put billions into my speed, i dont think i should be invincible and im not. but i think the game should be fair. all these quoted speeds are with my skills, imps, and faction mods, dont base this on your average pilot my intys go around 11.5km my dictors (sabre AND eris) went about 7.5 my nanohacs go round 4.5-5km and my vaga goes 7.5 i dont use snakes, but have maxed skills and use 'decent' implants, i polycarb every ship i have... currently, thats 11 ships in my hangars that are poly'd now. lemme do some checking WITHOUT POLYCARBS by replacing them with aux thrusters and nanofibers (instead of overdrives to avoid stack penaties) now my intys go 9km now, with dictor nerf my heretic and sabre goes 3.4 thats with aux thrust and expensive implants heres the best part my hacs go 3.5-3.9 ... and are much less agile! which is another thing people complain about.. and my vaga goes 6km now on a side note, an after insurance payout stabber goes 5km for a measly 10 mill in fittings and ship ok, on to the topic with snakes.. i dont use em, never will... but i dont think they are in need of a nerf, personally i wouldnt care if they were not in game anymore but whatever.. they ARE very expensive,, and they do NOT make someone invincible, ive killed 3 known pilots myself with snakes, and podded them with dictors bubbles (which we obviously dont use anymore) now, back to the topic of speed, and dictors... get rid of polycarbs if you want everyone to finaly stop ****ing in Eve about nano crap! even us nano pilots wont care, as long as you stop nerfing our ships (and return our dictors) why wont we care? because if NOONE has polycarbs, then guess what? everyone who was faster or slower than you before,,, is STILL faster or slower... and it gives those whiney battleships pown everything* pilots a wee bit better chance of catching us... and allows financially poor inty pilots a wee bit better chance as they wont be up against poly'd hacs. about dictors? 90% of them werent that 9km bullcrap you keep seeing.. you know what that was? overheating... most sabres topped out at 5.5km maybe 6km, and if a sabre/heretic awnts to polycarb his ship, he would get 7km.. BUT! could easily get killed by ONE inty and ONE anyyyyything type of ship, recon/ewarfrig/bs/cruiser _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.31 06:51:00 - [347] and on that note... its not OUR faults this is happening.. for some godforsaken reason, you guys introduced speed combat boosters, speed rigs, 50% additional overheating increase ... you game WAS balaned... you guys messed it up. and somehow. my only fun class of ship to fly got nerfed to hell. to the point were a nano cruiser can catch them... hell a nano mega is faster than a flycatcher pretty much. please. return our dictors to normal, its already bad enough dealing with hyenas and kitsunes now (even the keres or a setinal with get a pre-nerf dictor killed) and nanohacs..... fix the dictors, remove polycarbs.. and all of eve is saved _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Norma Cenza	Posted - 2007.12.31 16:42:00 - [348] fix dictors nerf dual polycarb, multi odj fits problem solved -now just eliminate proto and improved cloaks and put in stealth devices that reduce sig by 80%.
SATAN BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.12.31 16:58:00 - [349] Edited by: SATAN on 31/12/2007 16:59:30 Its about time you guys realized that no amount of common sense is going to change the minds of the balance team. They obviously know their stuff far better than any of us. For instance while listening to the recording of the Dev chat I heard a really informative piece of knowledge given out by our favorite balancer Mr. Zulu. He basically spills the beans about how nano ships are such a problem because some of them have 6 low slots in which they can fit 6 overdrives. And here I was all along thinking that the stacking nerf was already in place. So you know the morale of the story as written by Zulu, go fit 6 overdrives on your Sabre .
Hab0k	Posted - 2007.12.31 20:16:00 - [350] yup, agreed, pollys are over powered but at this point in time its the only way to keep the interdictors up to a decent speed, because the nerf. But since we already gave them the idea, of which they had no clue about due to the fact that they just put a bandana over there eyes spin them selfs around in there desks and whatever they land on with there finger as they spin, is the next nerfed ship that they have never flown so its cool by them... Hehe, i just got a rather funny picture of that.
Hab0k	Posted - 2008.01.02 02:13:00 - [351] CCP, An Answer?
Jallem Sims Minmatar Exploring Blind	Posted - 2008.01.03 08:50:00 - [352] just reading the last few replys.... now that rigs are on KM's, you'll find less polies on speed ships cause they cost so much and hurts stats! putting more than 3 OD's stack.... and nanos reduce weight and such have smaller bonuses to speed at a cost to armor (so a nano fitted ship becomes easier to kill) The are lots of varibles to speed, and will always be, no matter what we do to nerf it.... learn heat and you'll get a great boost to speed when you need it. Which is really the point, these ships are a problem when they need the speed :P The 25% reduction in speed is nasty, pointless, and has seen a reduction in use of dictors.... no one wants to fly them now :-( I don't anymore really. The sad thing is, this destroyer class of ship has gone the same way as the destroyers.... why do with have this class of ship again? anyway, speed will always be there for the ships that need it. Nerfing it is pointless and for only those that can't or not willing to find away to tackle it. Speed also creates more playing options I've not really fought in many lagged out fights when speed is used... tbh, who wants to take there nano rigged ship that costs so much to a lag fest. Final thought...... if you ever, ever catch a nano****, speed freak... POD THEM! lol.... they will think twice before engaging you next time :P imagine the implants he could have in... fly safe o7
Drash Kammatarr German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2008.01.05 15:03:00 - [353] Edited by: Drash Kammatarr on 05/01/2008 15:04:45 Simple question: How can EvE evolve to the best mmorpg? Answer: It can't. Evolution is in part about improvement. The useful setups (genes) should prevail and inspire others to use them as well. CCP counters this player driven evolution by nerfing everything in this game that is good. It seems like they pick on every intelligent setup and try to reduce it's efficiency. Mediocrity is CCPs ultimate goal. Let there be no outstanding achievements. Almost every T2 item has seen a nerf since it's implementation. So the technology in EVE takes a huge leap from time to time, just to fall back to a lower level a few weeks later. Besides that beeing absolutely daft, it destroys the experience of a truly persistent gaming universe. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remlin Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.06 01:49:00 - [354] Edited by: Remlin on 06/01/2008 01:53:14 I've been playing Call of Duty 4 more often since Trinity release. I'm kind of vulnerable at the moment ... right now if another MMORPG looked shiny enough, I would stray. I was a dictor pilot. I spent many months focusing to unlock there entertianment experience of what I was told to expect for close to a year. REAL TIME spent waiting to enjoy something I can't use now without destroying my enjoyment of playing EvE Online. I tried to make things work Post Trinity patch but it cost too much time and effort to recover almost guaranteed losses. Originally by: CCP Zulupark Being able to bubble up a 20km radius with a very very small ship should have some drawbacks don't you think? It shouldn't be a no-brainer to do in my opinion. If the above quote is truly what CCP Zulupark had said then I'm really saddened that he cared so little to understand. "Aut Vincere Aut Mori"
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2008.01.06 06:43:00 - [355] have you not heard his live dev blog? from his side, he sounded very unproffesional, and he showed he knew very little about the game. i was a dedicated dictor pilot as well.. and seriously, listening to what he had to say on that blog about dictors infuriated me. _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
hammyhamm GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.06 06:53:00 - [356] I still don't quite understand the reasoning behind the interdictor speed nerf... maybe you could say that it is possible to go very fast in them but to be honest you could spend the same amount of money on any ship and find a very big improvement like that. It has pretty much made them even bigger paper aeroplanes in my eyes...
Orin Fatch The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.01.06 10:16:00 - [357] Edited by: Orin Fatch on 06/01/2008 10:17:34 Originally by: hammyhamm I still don't quite understand the reasoning behind the interdictor speed nerf... maybe you could say that it is possible to go very fast in them but to be honest you could spend the same amount of money on any ship and find a very big improvement like that. It has pretty much made them even bigger paper aeroplanes in my eyes... I agree completely. They are already paper thin. There ment to kill interceptors/ frigates! How do they plan that happening if they cant keep up with them in the first place... ffs. Speed tanks etc are being being nerf as it is with the amount of webbing bonuses on new ships. This plus a base speed penalty is ridiculed. ---- There will be blood..
Shinori GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.01.06 11:28:00 - [358] Wish they increased dictor bubble radius to 24km at least.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2008.01.08 16:09:00 - [359] Originally by: Shinori Wish they increased dictor bubble radius to 24km at least. how about 48, then i wont complain.. or be able to warp cloaked :P see. now THATS overpwoered :P by the way. i now have my broadsword going faster than my heretic and sabre.... is that ok ccp? .. or can we make everyone happy except zulupark by changes things back to the way they were... speaking of... notice how everyones hating the whole capital blob thing... dont you think our pre nerf dictors were at least a step in the right direction to combat that more important problem... return our dictors to normal again please, you guys still still havent let us know why you changed em in the first place.... this isnt a rant, this is a customer asking a question. _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Flaming Butterfly	Posted - 2008.01.08 16:43:00 - [360] very disappointing. 13 pages of people wanting to find out why the problem was the dictor and not the polycarb/odj. Seriously, WTF? Nerf PolyCarbs/ODJ, restore the dictors!
Saithe Caldari Thanos and Killjoy Productions Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.09 07:59:00 - [361] LETS NERF EVERYTHING! ITS ALL TOO POWERFUL BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE CAN FLY IT! NERF IT ALL!!! i cant fly a vaga nerf it. i cant fly a rapier nerf it. i cant fly carriers nerf them. i cant i cant i cant nerf nerf nerf.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:39:00 - [362] bump. give us a response please devs _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Hab0k	Posted - 2008.01.13 03:46:00 - [363] bump
Drash Kammatarr German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2008.01.13 12:56:00 - [364] Edited by: Drash Kammatarr on 13/01/2008 13:03:01 bump Yes, a response is needed, and that is not only by signature checking interns, pls ;) To add some argumentation to this: -A properly fit sabre costs about 30 mil at least. Thats 3 times the amount a properly fit T1 crusier costs, but it tanks better than a sabre (which doesn't tank at all). now since dictors are very often primaried in battles, a single warp disruption bubble could come now to as much as 30 million isk. What is the logic behind that? -Speed is the only defense for a interdictor. with the speed nerf, a interceptor with the scramble range bonus can easily kill a dictor, which ridicules the role of the dictor as an interceptor killer. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2008.01.17 02:31:00 - [365] bump 30 mill for a single 2 minute bubble on a dictor... or, for 90 mill you can have a HIC that does the job and tanks better than battlecruisers... and if i septn the same stupid amounts of money as i used to on my old dictors, i can get a broadsword and phobos going faster than current dictors... wheres the logic zulupark? noone wanted this ship nerfed. please return it _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Angor The JORG Corporation Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2008.01.17 09:43:00 - [366] I used to love the sabre before the nerf now i hardly ever fly it, its a waste of 20+ mil. what was the nerf about 25%?... i think they should rethink this and give back 10-15% of its speed back. _______________________________ [ 2007.06.07 21:07:22 ] FrankyWave > ransom me guys I am joining XElas !!!
Jallem Sims Minmatar Exploring Blind	Posted - 2008.01.17 11:55:00 - [367] Here to bump.... answer plz CCP! note, the amount of people not flying dictors anymore... note, your player community highlighted this along time ago... note, the few ships that could have caught nano hacs etc are now no longer capable and now you see more nano hacs safer and more dangerous. please also note.... speed is not a problem, it brings a different element to the game. You get LESS BLOBS and LESS Lag due to the reduced blob nature. Keep nerfing speed and this game will turn into a tanking ganking game! /me hasen't brought a dictor for over a month (i used to perma fly them) however a big up yours as now i fly my inty, and with heat i just hit 27.9k without gang bonuses!! Thats it, hit me again with your nerf bat and see howmany more players you loose!
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2008.01.17 17:07:00 - [368] they ***ed about our bubbles.. i think us dictor pilots could all come to an agreement.. make our bubble slast ONE minutes instead of two (and the old 4) and cut the launch time in half again.. this FORCES us to stay on the battlefield.. and not just warping in and out bubbling... <--- THAT is what people were crying over.. THAT is also a damn good solution without **ing off a small but dedicated part of your comunity... and i still think that aggro thing needs to be rethought.. maybe not removed.. but definately rethought and reapplied with a tweak or something _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
VoYvod Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2008.01.18 05:23:00 - [369] the speed nerf is ridiculous and pretty pointless tbh. i was messing around with my heretic , i put 3 warp core stabs on it just for a giggle, and it went almost 3k m/s with skills/ basic speed implants , then i put 2 overdrives and a nano , and it was going just under 4k m/s , no rigs. so pretty much you're better off fitting warp core stabs and save your isk. so fit some stabs , a cloak , mwd , 2 bubble launchers and just be annoying as all hell and not be able to do 1 of the dictors main roles which was to kill frigate classed vessels , ccp just keeps on failing - think before you nerf. p.s. might wanna check out cyno jammers/jump bridges/ - they're pretty unreasonabley safe.... and station services were to be killed by roaming gangs or roaming fleets ? almost the same hitpoints as a POS ....
Drash Kammatarr German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2008.01.18 18:08:00 - [370] Bump We, the customers, demand an answer! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drash Kammatarr German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2008.01.24 15:51:00 - [371] bump! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hab0k	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:22:00 - [372] Edited by: Hab0k on 25/01/2008 16:26:00 So right now i am typing this on my psp because the only ship i ever enjoyed flying is now just horrible get this a sb killed my heretic that use to go onLy 6km not even very fast i dont think thats fair and i have maxed speed skLLz please teLL us or i wiLL most likely quiT along with mAny others
Hab0k	Posted - 2008.01.26 20:08:00 - [373] bump
Moctobot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.26 21:55:00 - [374] yo ccp you could make them cost half as much and i would be cool with that if you insist on keeping the speed nerf or you could fix polycarbs/snakes and restore the dictors to what they were before
Morris Falter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.01.27 18:02:00 - [375] Wasting your time. The game is being geared towards blobs and idiots and changes like this are here to stay. The real issue is - the game should be relentlessly harsh, totally merciless - if you **** up, then you die. If you can't learn from your mistakes, then the game should not be for you. Remove people who dont speak from local channel, make a covops interdictor, increase the map size, make money harder to make, introduce more scrambling NPCs, make empire barren, reduce agent rewarwds, make POS fuel impossible to jump in capital ships, increase the number of gates in systems, make outposts destructible, fix the fleet system's bugs, un-nerf T2 ranged ammo etc.. that would be a fun game to play ;) I want a challenge, not lag, not who can bring most cap ships, not ganking idiots in asteroid belts to be the highlight of my game time... I dont care about how big my wallet is, nor how many cap ships I have - if I have to play in cruisers or t1, so be it, but I want it to _mean_ something when you score a kill, or when you take a hit. The quality of ideas and tactics should be the determining factor in who wins, and of course the quality of your comrades in game.. and if you dont agree with this, then frankly you're an idiot, you're playing for nothing, and you are killing this game. Bleh, wasting my breath again.. deaf ears..
Shriken Grey Fade to Black Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:27:00 - [376] I've cried myself to sleep every night since the dictor nerf....
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2008.01.28 10:17:00 - [377] i hear ya, only reason i log in now to eve is for a skill change or to use as a glorified chat room :P restore our dictors please.. how bout this? you give our bubbles a 1 minutes flight time, and return our speed.. meaning we have to stay on the battlefield in the heat twice as much (double our refire rate of course as well) _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Selnix Gallente North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.01.29 03:22:00 - [378] Just kinda wondering here, did the nerf accomplish what was intended? Before Trinity, interdictors were my favorite ships in game to fly and I managed to rack up 495 kills with them distributed more or less evenly between the Heretic and Eris. Never flew one of those ubersolowtfpwnmobile PolyGistiiSnakeSabres that people *****ed about (despite the fact that those pilots were putting over a billion isk on the line in a ship with little or no defenses). Never got to make it onto a mail merely by dropping the bubble, actually had to aggro and attack someone. Were they still super duper invulnerable pwnmobiles? Heck no, lost 11 of them along the way because I flew them for PVP, not just as a T2 shuttle that drops a bubble on someone and warps off. Didn't do the cloaking on the gate and dropping a bubble then jumping through stupidity. Actually tried to use T2 rockets, despite the reduction in speed because at the time that reduction was not devastating to the point that you would be getting run down and killed by the majority of HACs. My point? If the goal of the dictor nerf was to make people quit flying them, you guys accomplished it. After literally about a year of flying little other than that one class of ship and being perfectly happy to do so, you guys gave me reason to stop and join the countless lemmings that you have seeded, training for ships suited mainly for your baby that is blob warfare. Guess we are just telling small scale pvp outside of lowsec noob ganking goodbye.
McFly Path of Light R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.31 20:35:00 - [379] Anything ever going to help us dictor pilots out? Interceptors are funner with thier new cap stability bonuses and range bonus on the tackle variants...but I would really like to know If I can ever undock my flycatcher/heretic again.... Are we ever going to get our speed back? Is anything in the works? And if we can't have our speed back EVER, then lower our SigRadius... Dictors last 3 seconds when used in their intended role. Why do I have to die everytime my FC asks me to do my job? k, Heavy dictors are cool, I see em all over now, but I like manual piloting my dictor around and hence why I'm an Inty/Dictor Pilot... more entertaining combat manually flying... Please give it back... -- --my opinions do not reflect that of my corp nor my alliance--
Drash Kammatarr German Cyberdome Corp Star Buccaneers	Posted - 2008.02.03 03:17:00 - [380] I quit my Account today. About stuff...no you can't have it, it goes to my corp. The dictor nerf and the missing reasoning behind it was the final tiny bit that made me quit. There are many more countless reasons. I enjoyed Eve very much in the beginning. It's sad to see that it went from class to mass. With blob tactics beeing the only way to achieve something these days, dumb masses always succeed over intelligent small groups. Soloing? Forget about it, it's been "balanced". Had some nice times, the last half year though was a waste. Should have quit earlier. Thanks, Drash signing off --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2008.02.03 16:26:00 - [381] Originally by: Drash Kammatarr I quit my Account today. About stuff...no you can't have it, it goes to my corp. The dictor nerf and the missing reasoning behind it was the final tiny bit that made me quit. There are many more countless reasons. I enjoyed Eve very much in the beginning. It's sad to see that it went from class to mass. With blob tactics beeing the only way to achieve something these days, dumb masses always succeed over intelligent small groups. Soloing? Forget about it, it's been "balanced". Had some nice times, the last half year though was a waste. Should have quit earlier. Thanks, Drash signing off im getting to that point as well... i rarely play now. im sure they can check that to see its a fact. what PSSES me th * off is they wont even give us.. their source of income a ***** response1!!! noone wanted this nerf!!!!!! return our ships so we can go back to enjoy our game.. your game. the one we pay for thank you (sorry for my anger) _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Hab0k	Posted - 2008.02.03 20:49:00 - [382] bump
Arcane Carnage The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.03 21:11:00 - [383] Originally by: Andreya bump. give us a response please devs QFT - un-nerf my crow killer! - Ures truly kickin' ass Carn
Hab0k	Posted - 2008.02.09 04:14:00 - [384] Give us a f[][][]ing reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL NOT LET THIS GO!!!! ZULU RAN OUT WHEN HE WAS TO ANSWER THE QUESTION! JUSt sO hE WOULDNT bE ATTACKED OR HAVE TO BE BARADED WITTH WHy HE DID WHAT HE DID! NORMMAL PILOTS W/o SNAKES AND GISTII'S WENT MAYBY 5.5KM/S.... TELL ME IF YOU COULDNT CATCH I SAW A GOD D[][]N RAPIER GOING 9KM/S SO THE ONLY WAY THAT SON OF A [][][][] WOULDNT BE ABLE TO WEB ANY CHAR IN TIME IS OFF THE F[][][]ING WALL STUPID! I NEED AN ANSWER, WE ALL DO.... WE WILL NOT SIT BY AND TAKE THIS! WE HAVE BEEN PATIANT LONG ENOUGH! THIS MESSEGE SPANS 13 F[][][]ING PAGES W/ AROUND 20-ISH POST TO EACH! THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE ASKING WHY THIS HAPPENED AND GETTING BLAITENLY IGNORED! DUE TO THAT FACT I AM HERE BY DECLARING THAT IN THIS EXTREME CASE OF MY ISSUE YOUR SUPPORT TEAM WORK A FIX INTO THE EQUATION BECAUSE YOU KNOW AS WELL AS WE DO THAT THE ONLY WAY A SABRE, HERETIC, ERIS OR FLY CATCHER LIVES IS WITH THE SPEED TO AVOID THE BARRAGE INTENDED TO KILL.... THE DICTORS THAT MOVE FAST PUT JUST AS MUCH ISK INTO THE RAPIER PILOT I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY! AND EVEN MOST WHO PUT 500M CAN ONLY (USE TO BE ABLE TO ONLY GO) 7-8KM/S! STILL THE RAPIER CATCHES THEM! YOU WHINE ABOUT HOW ITS NOT FAIR THAT A SABRE CAN GET OUT OF THE WEB RANGE IN TIME WHEN 99% OF SABRES NEVER COULD EVEN MOVE IN THE BEGINING BECAUSE THE RAPIER! THESE SUPER SHIPS ARE NOT AN EXPLOIT BUT AN INVESTMENT! If YOU CARE TO STOP US THAN YOU WILL SPENT THE AMOUNT OF ISK WE SPENT TO BETTER YOUR GOD D[][]N OWN SHIP! iTS LIKE YOU ARE OUT TO KILL US W/ THE NEW BONUSES FOR NEW WEBBING SHIPS! YOUVE ALLREADY SLOWED US DOWN! NOW YOU WANT TO LAUGH AT US BECAUSE YOUR LITTLE ****-ANT SHIPS SUCH AS ElECTRONIC ATTACK SHIPS WEB THE F[][]K OUT OF US AND SLAUTER US! IGNORANCE IS SO F[][][]ING BLISS! This catagory does not fall under the 5th bullet of the CoC because it is full of first hand events and information of facts about how you will not answer our requests and or see that just because you MIGHT HAVE died due to the god sabres people have you do not see that other ships are 100% more effective! we MUST put the isk like that into our ships to be effective! its the only way too us! This was not just RAMBLING this was me calling you out and stating every fact! Many people have stated facts however not even ONE d[][]n GM of forum mod or dev has commented! I understand you have made the new interdictors, however you cant put a self webbing mod on them (the bubbler) because that is just not reasonable! Right now i will say that if we do not get answered than you shall see a big issue! And if I am banned due to the former statements it will only show the community that you would silence one who Should have a free voice, to further your own agenda for personal intrests! Every one who has marked on this form thread will agree and stand behind me! I will say this only once more in such a long speach... -Respond-
Tate Aoko Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2008.02.09 07:54:00 - [385] Originally by: Dark 0men Hey, Zulupark, if dictors are meant to die after dropping one bubble, how come the launcher holds 10? This made me lol, also, hurry up and fire the stupid moron who thought up the dictor nerf.. thanks
SumDum AirHawk Alliance Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:16:00 - [386] Originally by: Hab0k Every one who has marked on this form thread will agree and stand behind me! I will say this only once more in such a long speach... -Respond- You are sure to be taken seriously to now that you have typed that in ALL CAPS! I can sense CCP is so moved by your tirade that my Flycatcher is speeding up as I type this. You rule!
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc. Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:20:00 - [387] Originally by: Tate Aoko Originally by: Dark 0men Hey, Zulupark, if dictors are meant to die after dropping one bubble, how come the launcher holds 10? Maybe activating interdiction launcher could reduce your speed by 90% and dropping a bubble would do equal damage to 6 em smartbombs in close vicinity?
Hab0k	Posted - 2008.02.11 21:11:00 - [388] Bam to the top
Hab0k	Posted - 2008.02.16 21:07:00 - [389] .
Kaykr	Posted - 2008.02.25 07:31:00 - [390] bump
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:40:00 - [391] I do not fly my Eris anymore since my Helios ( cov ops ) outruns it since the nerf. That is unacceptable. The saber is overpowered, and as a result of people spending billions on implants and rigs to make the overpowered dicter insane, my Eris got the nerf bat and so now it sits collecting dust. If it was CCP's goal to get people to fly the new heavy interdicters and throw out their old dicters, they succeeded in this.
Dlardrageth Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.02.27 02:18:00 - [392] bump For still waiting for an answer/reasoning.
Kyusoath Orillian UK Corp Rare Faction	Posted - 2008.02.27 08:08:00 - [393] i post rarely . this needs my post. god damn you , why did you do this it makes no sense. i demand answers . you ** , zulu**
Andreya Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.02.29 01:03:00 - [394] bump... return our dictors to us please i havent played in almost a month now. you took away a whole CLASS of ships from us.. some of us were dedicated dictor pilots who flew nothing else... and dont WANT to fly anything else... but i surely dont want to fly in a coffin _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Pheonix Kanan Caldari TH3 C4K3	Posted - 2008.02.29 04:37:00 - [395] The devs actually responded to some of the questions regarding the current nerfs. It was in another thread but the response is there. It's rather disappointing, sorry guys. Linkage -----
Gordon Red SteelVipers Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.02.29 16:46:00 - [396] Still ignorring the player base, because a n00b-nerf-bat-dev made some unclever moves and CCP is too embarrassed to answer us.
Renfus Omen Incorporated Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.29 23:47:00 - [397] Edited by: Renfus on 29/02/2008 23:49:06 Ya know it never fails... Anyone who has played other MMO's can tell ya IÆm speaking the truth. No matter what game you play. Once someone starts swinging that damn nerf bat in the name of balance everything goes to hell and eventually the game follows... Though SWG will always have the record for being the most Fk'd up game in existence... My point here... the more they nerf (Balance) the worse things are going to get. The one thing I liked about this game is how intricate this game is. The fact that each race has different strong points & weaknesses. And you can cross train!!! Different ship types are made to play a certain roles. And being able to fit ships with multiple fittings coupled with skills & Tactics gives us infinite possibilities. This is NOT ment to be Balanced FFS !!! Balancing will do nothing but rend certain ship class's useless... Then what... they gonna "balance" something else? eventually ALL Races will be virtually the same... which i'm sure is NOT what they were intentionally aiming for BUT thats the end product... Example: Caldari Destroyers... its a nice little ship..looks cool... good for salvaging, thats about it... most frigs can rip it apart... screw it.. give them a salvaging bonus and a new purpose in life..
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners Intruders.	Posted - 2008.03.01 05:39:00 - [398] Originally by: Renfus Example: Caldari Destroyers... its a nice little ship..looks cool... good for salvaging, thats about it... most frigs can rip it apart... screw it.. give them a salvaging bonus and a new purpose in life.. Sniping cormerant, nuff said
Marlona Sky Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.03 01:48:00 - [399] I have to be honest here. I for one used to hate how fast the interdictors could go, but after seeing the nerf bat hit them too hard. I feel bad for the interdictor pilots. I strongly support them being looked at again. The nerf was too much. For a ship that has to be fast to have a chance of surviving they need it back. Maybe thier top speed before the nerf was a bit too much, but the 25% nerf to thier speed really cut them off at the knees instead of the ankles.
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:53:00 - [400] Edited by: Agil TradeAlt on 03/03/2008 07:53:29 Anti-nano solution has alwasy been Web Long range webbing, i.s 24km webs as standard would solve nano overnight without nerfing people who like to nano. Want to nano? Fine, then watch out for webbers in pvp. Originally by: CCP kieron ISK buying is a major contributor to the inflation in EVE's economy.
Gordon Red	Posted - 2008.04.03 15:07:00 - [401] /fix it Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Andreya	Posted - 2008.04.06 01:57:00 - [402] its been 50+ days since ive played eve now :( pleaase return our dictors to their original state... seriously, the change made eve unintersting to me... i can even fly caps now... but ill never be caught dead in one. ccp, check my account, i dont play no more. i know your still happy cause in still paying so i can change skills... but, listen to your customers please, look at the bigger problems first (cap ships online, nano cruisers, poor AFs) _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Kaykr	Posted - 2008.04.28 15:39:00 - [403] bump
Andreya Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.04.29 13:16:00 - [404] 410 posts, months later, and still no official response. sorry to beat a dead horse, but please do something with this class, it was one of the most amazingly fun ships to fly. I still see dictors being outran by even T1 nano cruisers. and the dictors are not fast enough to catch the only things they were great at killing, which is intys (although intys worth the same isk value have ALWAYS been about 25% faster) Returning dictors to their original state will not **** people off,,, at least not when they realize that fast dictors are the problem,,, its the whole 'nano' issue itself that is the problem. Zulu said, dropping bubbles and being able to run away way too powerfull.. well hell im happy if you lower the bubbles life span to 1 minutes instead of 2, (lower the refire rate of course as well) meaning the dictor must stay around twice as much to keep its targets bubbled... also giving more time for rapiers hyenas curses or any other inty, time to catch and let it get killed by the big guns _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
BugxEarl Amarr Izanagi Orbital Fleet Izanagi Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.02 00:19:00 - [405] Eris/Heretic/Sabre are still 'fast enough' to avoid heavy missiles by breaking the 4km/s. This is still less than some of the cheaply fitted nano-cruisers, but I guess it is within acceptable boundries. The real short end of the stick is the flycatcher. This ship, even with maxed navigation skill doesn't even break 3.6k, and even with 80m or so worth of speed hardwiring, barely breaks 4k(where as other dictors get around 4.5 ~ 5k). I believe Sabre is somewhat balanced as is.(around 5k with cheap fits, 6k with poly and 6.5 with cheaper gistii MWD) Heretic and Eris should get 30m/s speed boost respectively (Eris has lower speed but more lows for speed mod) Flycatcher needs something like 50m/s more, but it'll still be slower than other 3 even then.
Andreya Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.05.03 06:47:00 - [406] Originally by: BugxEarl Eris/Heretic/Sabre are still 'fast enough' to avoid heavy missiles by breaking the 4km/s. This is still less than some of the cheaply fitted nano-cruisers, but I guess it is within acceptable boundries. The real short end of the stick is the flycatcher. This ship, even with maxed navigation skill doesn't even break 3.6k, and even with 80m or so worth of speed hardwiring, barely breaks 4k(where as other dictors get around 4.5 ~ 5k). I believe Sabre is somewhat balanced as is.(around 5k with cheap fits, 6k with poly and 6.5 with cheaper gistii MWD) Heretic and Eris should get 30m/s speed boost respectively (Eris has lower speed but more lows for speed mod) Flycatcher needs something like 50m/s more, but it'll still be slower than other 3 even then. weather the ships can outrun missiles or speed tanks guns has nothing to do at the issue. the problem is these ships are now too easy to get webbed and destroyed by nano fit t1 and t2 cruisers. if the average max speed of an inty was 8 k, then a dictor should be 6+ k and a nano cruiser should be 3.5+ .... something along those lines would make the dictors alot more attractive again... (those speeds would be just a t2 fit no implants or something, for arguements sakes) and when i say nano cruiser, i mean full nano fit.. i just pulled them number outta my ares, but you get my point, dictors should be the second fastest class in game
Selnix Gallente North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.05.03 19:15:00 - [407] Out of this entire thread, I find it puzzling that I don't recall anyone making the single most to the point argument available as of yet. If Interdictors were not meant to go fast then why this? TERTIARY SKILL REQUIRED ------------------------- Interdictors Level I Spaceship Command Level IV *Interceptors Level IV* Pretty screwed up when you need to be well skilled in flying the fastest ships in the game to fly an Interdictor but supposedly the ship requiring that mastery is meant to go slow.
BugxEarl Amarr Izanagi Orbital Fleet Izanagi Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.03 19:53:00 - [408] Originally by: Andreya stuff I'm not saying dictors are balanced as is, which is why I suggested a slight speed boost. The thing is, if you universally un-nerf interdictors, sabre would still be imbalanced. As is, sabre with 2 poly, 2 OD, AY1,CY1,Zor'z Hyperlink and MY1 hardwiring would pull off 5.5k. That is a good deal faster than majority of the nano-ed ships out there (Vaga goes faster than this...but that's another issue). If you take out the hardwiring, other non-Vaga nano-ships would go from 3k ~ 3.5k, while sabre still manage 4.5k. (That is with near-max navigation skills). What I'm arguing for, is to bring other less fortunate dictors in line with the sabre.
Andreya Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.05.07 19:31:00 - [409] Originally by: BugxEarl Originally by: Andreya stuff I'm not saying dictors are balanced as is, which is why I suggested a slight speed boost. The thing is, if you universally un-nerf interdictors, sabre would still be imbalanced. As is, sabre with 2 poly, 2 OD, AY1,CY1,Zor'z Hyperlink and MY1 hardwiring would pull off 5.5k. That is a good deal faster than majority of the nano-ed ships out there (Vaga goes faster than this...but that's another issue). If you take out the hardwiring, other non-Vaga nano-ships would go from 3k ~ 3.5k, while sabre still manage 4.5k. (That is with near-max navigation skills). What I'm arguing for, is to bring other less fortunate dictors in line with the sabre. jeesus, i wish poeple did their research for once... the sabre is not the fastest, the Eris is... then the sabre, and the heretic is only 3% slower than the sabre!!!! the flycatcher however DID get the shaft and yes,,, all dictors SHOULD be able to outrun ALL nano cruisers... dammit! they are CRUISERS! sabre does need to be faster than the heretic and flycatcher as it much be 1km to do its damage, whereas the flycatcher and eris can shoot 14km with rockets... and much further out if using Javs, or standards. Eris,,, does suck tho :P and needs love. and all dictors need to be unnerfed! o yea one more point. MINMATAR ARE MEANT TO BE THE FASTEST! get over it! minmatar also (in general) have the worst tank's, dps that beats caldari, but dont have the optimal range of caldari (or any other race for that matter in ranged warfare) can be jammed easy, damped easy, and have the smallest cap, so can be neuted easy.... now... stop whining about minmatar being the fastest, its all they got (hence why their BC's and BS are rubbish) _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Hab0k	Posted - 2008.05.12 15:56:00 - [410] Well, this is seriosly getting old.
Ania Tsaluan	Posted - 2008.05.13 14:49:00 - [411] so yeah, interdicters go slow as hell now (with respect to their niche counterparts), while heavy dictors come out, which can fit battleship-size MWD, and OUTSPEED most intercepters... humm..... /me has brain annurism and ends post
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.14 08:14:00 - [412] Is the interdictor dead or what? Just buff it in some way, speed or hp... I say speed. Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions! I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them.
Aequitas Veritas Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.14 13:25:00 - [413] Problem was that CCP took the wrong way to change it, cause in ways this ship is still the most overpowered ship in the game since it can singlehandedly scramble an entire fleet of ships or all classes for 3 minutes, which is rediculous. What they should have done to the dictor instead was something like make its bubble stay up for 20 secounds before popping. No more dictor drop bubble and warp out. Instead it could be fast and also serve as a anti interceptor ship more than it does today & to keep stuff bubbled youll need to stay alive on the field (moar speed and less sig etc) and continue to drop bubbles or get more normal support in. This way the interdictor could keep stuff scrambled for a short time so other support get time to lock (no instant warp away) and it would be on th efield instead of dropping bubble and warp away leaving the hostile 50 man gang to die for a 50 man sniping gang 180km away (which arent bubbled)... The ship is broken in bubble mechanics and also in its own survivability. "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Hab0k	Posted - 2008.05.14 15:45:00 - [414] Well, I beleive that it lasted two minutes, (the bubble that is) And we already cant warp out of our bubble with that one bug. 20 seconds isnt long enough for some one to jump a gate and run out of time. so 60 seconds even 50 would be a good nerf, but an interdictor is supposed to also stop interceptors and other dictors maybe a cruiser but other than that they can not kill**, they can be killed fast, they cant do a ** ton of dps, because the thrasher even out dps's its brother. Witout a response what is this telling us? the only reason people like me are getting nerfed is because the only ones crying is the victems. thats the only ino\put ccp receives and so they act on that but, oh no what is this 350 posts of people angry and for 3-4 months without an answer. bring speed back increas sig so we can be hit more. dont nerf speed on anything else... because my skills coulda put me into a mother ship by now had i not waisted my time on this... which is what ccp wants, so give me a hel and make my skills correct to fly one and leave my char in FDZ at a safe spot please...
Cosmin Constantin	Posted - 2008.05.15 11:31:00 - [415] Interdictors seemed nice ships to fly. I always drooled over them but now, seeing the nerf they got sometime ago, and how people complain about them, i'm not interested in them anymore. Thank God I did not spend the time to train for them. My opinion on them, and might not be the best one since i never flew one, would be to: Restore their speed or increase their shield/armor resistances to AF levels. Or a combo of the two, slightly increase their speed and shield/armor resistances.
Hab0k	Posted - 2008.05.15 13:54:00 - [416] Oh, and by the way, yeah its true you can put a 100mn mwd on the heavy dictor but i am sure you didnt know this little bit of info... 23.1 seconds to make a turn... so basicaly you wouldnot be able to hold even a small orbit. and one more thing, even if you could imediatly when you enable the bubble your speed is cut to -90% so basicaly you self web yourself =) bet you didnt know that, mr. your so damn smart... also i would actualy like the idea w/ more resistance would be nice, but i would rather have it as it was... its really silly that they nerfed these, and to get maybe 6km/s out of em you will have to spend 1.2 billion for snakes and setup. basicaly thats effed up. ZULUpark i would like you to reply, i mean seriously, when you where doign that dev blog and you misteriously dishapeared when you where asked why dictors were nerfed... i mean that sounds kinda conveniant. dont you think? I know you read this because i posted it into your dev blog. So FIX IT.
Hab0k	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:49:00 - [417] CCP! Some one really needs to say something.
Hab0k	Posted - 2008.05.29 16:23:00 - [418] bump
JS LiamElms Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.30 08:26:00 - [419] lol.... this still bouncing around i see :P
Moizo Abh Empire Carpe Universitas	Posted - 2008.05.30 14:47:00 - [420] Originally by: Dark 0men What the ** CCP? What goddamn reason do you have for making my sabre slower than a sucking vagabond? It's the only decent *** dictor, and you decided to nerf it. I guess I'll have to always fly two characters. One for bubble and GTFO and the other for actually doing anything. Did Oveur and all the original developers leave to work on some other failure of a game and leave minimum wage intern burger flippers (hired from the same **** asylum as GMs) to maintain EVE? If so, maybe they shouldn't be changing the game mechanics. my god, i just fell off my chair, that was Too funny for a human being...Thanks:D
Selnix Gallente North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.08.09 16:44:00 - [421] Just thought it might be of interest to the current posters in the two main speed-nerf threads (5991 posts combined atm) that they are unlikely to see ANY consideration from the devs on this issue, given this thread was going for months and months without a single dev reply in regards to what is basically just an introductory version of this new patch. They've already broken one ship class to the point of them being regarded as disposable ships you don't fit anything nice on because you're going to lose them anyhow and are getting ready to do much the same to several different Heavy Assaults with the upcoming patch. Also, I'm quite certain that if they made public the true number of interdictors lost in pvp before and after the speed nerf, it would clearly illustrate their ability to turn what was once a viable pvp ship into more or less a warp in, press the button and die ship merely by slowing them down to the point of being utterly unable to mitigate damage. Interdictors can not be made to tank any significant amount of damage and with the reduced speed can not avoid damage. The new patch and the change of fleet makeup it will bring with it further amplify this problem. Maybe now would be a good time to return their speeds to the point that they at least can speed tank Heavy and cruise missiles given CCP claims they wish to have ships be slow enough to be hit by weapons designed to hit them, not weapons designed to hit a larger, now much much much slower ship class. Why not just give them T2 resists and tanking bonuses? Because a ship that is built to drop a bubble on an enemy force is of absolutely no use if it can not get to that force to drop the bubble. Speed is a necessity for these ships (Interceptors IV prereq anyone?) and in their current state an interdictor pilot is largely useless beyond the first minute or two of a fight in most situations now as they are usually sitting in their clone station or pod by that point. Conclusion: CCP, learn from your mistake with Interdictors instead of repeating it.

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