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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Important Internet Spaceship League
32
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
0/10 |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
1755
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
No that's a way to ensure that CCP cherry picks people they prefer for who knows what reasons. Maybe they'll choose an alliance mate, maybe a buddy from out of game forums, perhaps someone who agrees with their own vision for the game or maybe just some warm body they want to fill up with their Icelandic manseed. I'll take the people we voted to the CSM over that anyday thank you very much. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4595
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. No, the reason they rarely get voted in is because they can't capture an audience or a following and try to rely on their small corps/alliances to get them in rather than to run a proper campaign. History has show as much.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. No, the reason they rarely get voted in is because they can't capture an audience or a following and try to rely on their small corps/alliances to get them in rather than to run a proper campaign. History has show as much.
tippia gtfo out my thread, your opinion will never matter... now get out |
Ira Theos
Viziam Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.
The problem you describe is the primary downside of "pure" Democracy, that being
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
This is why truly representative systems tend be more a form of Republicanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism
Yes, I agree that CCP should have a stronger hand in vetting and selecting the candidates based upon the theory that the CSM's function is to filter through ideas and opinions to CCP from various player segments of the game. As things are now, the Goons and certain Zero interests are too strongly represented. |
Orion GUardian
109
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hell yes let people without support get voted into office like.....ME! (or not)
Well isn't that how democracy works in the real world? People combine into larger entities called "parties" and get all their friends to vote for them? If you find it so unfair, then you should look at the american system. Only members of the two "alliances" Republicans and Democrats really have a chance of being elected anyhwere. Its like DRF and Goons isn't it?
TO be voted you need the following: VOTERS! No alliance candicate can FORCE his alliance to vote for him but they do nonthelesse, perhaps because they want him up there because he stands for their combined goals. SO if one candidate cannot get enough followers i.e. voters or bring enough people to see him/her as the one to stand in for them: he just isn't elected. THAT is how democracy works. It has nothing to do with rigged election..... |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Im sorry but learn about democracy! The only thing democratic is the freedom to vote. Apart from that you votes ARE GUARANTEED! its basically FIXED!! its your own damn alliance mates voting for you, therefore its FIXED!! |
Prince Kobol
175
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.
No it isn't because all that would happen then is CCP would be accused of picking people who they have person relationships with.
|
Shazzam Vokanavom
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'd try and voice an opinion but it would just get chucked over into CSM Jita's corner to collect dust.
http://www.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf
Read the process and details for yourself. |
|
Ira Theos
Viziam Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. No it isn't because all that would happen then is CCP would be accused of picking people who they have person relationships with.
So you would prefer to have it populated with people who have a personal relationship with the Mittani?
(and before anyone asks, I'm not an alt of the OP and don't know him at all.) |
Dztrgovac
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
This isn't tyranny of majority. This is 15% of game population being organized into strong blocks being guaranteed to take all CSM seats. Vast majority of players will know nothing about the candidates available and either vote randomly of just not vote. EVE was supposed to be a game and game is supposed to be fun. But CCP has given too much influence and importance to CSM causing them to actually have quite a impact on game development and balance. |
Zimmy Zeta
Battle Force Industries Tactical Invader Syndicate
788
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dztrgovac wrote:This isn't tyranny of majority. This is 15% of game population being organized into strong blocks being guaranteed to take all CSM seats. Vast majority of players will know nothing about the candidates available and either vote randomly of just not vote. .....
So, if there only were some kind of forum where those players could exchange their point of views and coordinate their votes so that they could use their advantage in numbers to get their candidates into the CSM..... Oh, wait.... -.- |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4596
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:tippia gtfo out my thread, your opinion will never matter... now get out It ceased being your thread the moment you posted on an open discussion forum. Don't want me to comment on the threads you invite me to comment on? Then sod off to somewhere where I don't post.
The fact remains: history proves your hysterics false. Just because people fail to attract any constituents doesn't mean the voting is rigged. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tippia wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:tippia gtfo out my thread, your opinion will never matter... now get out It ceased being your thread the moment you posted on an open discussion forum. Don't want me to comment on the threads you invite me to comment on? Then sod off to somewhere where I don't post. The fact remains: history proves your hysterics false. Just because people fail to attract any constituents doesn't mean the voting is rigged.
fine keep posting, you will just be ignored. |
Tore Vest
163
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ofc CSM elections is rigged Highsec carebear... and proud of it |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4597
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:fine keep posting, you will just be ignored. Good idea. That cements my side of the argument without me having to do any work, since it just shows you're unable to address such a simple point. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
430
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.
This is actually not the issue at all. The rigged part of the voting process comes from multiple account holders and accounts purchased with Plex, combined with ISK faucets that only Null Sec alliances have access to. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Prince Kobol
175
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ira Theos wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. No it isn't because all that would happen then is CCP would be accused of picking people who they have person relationships with. So you would prefer to have it populated with people who have a personal relationship with the Mittani? (and before anyone asks, I'm not an alt of the OP and don't know him at all.)
Your point is what?
Whether you hate or like The Mittani, the reason he is able to get so many votes is because of his influence in game.
Maybe in a few years if you have done as half as much as he has done then maybe you can get people to vote for you instead.
Also, if we follow your idea then the The Mittani is guaranteed a place on the CSM for life considering he is good friends with many CCP employees, so your idea is even more fail.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4597
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:This is actually not the issue at all. The rigged part of the voting process comes from multiple account holders and accounts purchased with Plex, combined with ISK faucets that only Null Sec alliances have access to. What ISK faucets would that be, seeing as how all faucets are a available in all space? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
|
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
the only "rigging" last year was through 4h reactivations and that hole was plugged rather quickly iirc |
Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1020
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
(Missed!) Snypa!
Confirming that voting for someone in your alliance is rigged voting and should be stamped out. How DARE you vote for someone you've actually gotten to know and respect, right? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2684
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.
So your definition of "rigged" voting is one that someone wins just because more people vote for him?
And your definition of a "fair" election is one in which people are presented with a list of acceptable candidates and told they have to pick one?
OK Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Shazzam Vokanavom
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:This is actually not the issue at all. The rigged part of the voting process comes from multiple account holders and accounts purchased with Plex, combined with ISK faucets that only Null Sec alliances have access to. What ISK faucets would that be, seeing as how all faucets are a available in all space?
"If" we are led to beleive that the earning capability in Null sec is much better than others then in theory the provision of alt accounts by plexing is skewed in favour of that environment.
Interestingly couldn't be yet another motivation for the call to nerf various non-null faucets.
Maybe that is why Hulkageddon is not going to run this year, Mittens is spending all his plex on Alt accounts for the voting process? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4598
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:Maybe that is why Hulkageddon is not going to run this year, Mittens is spending all his plex on Alt accounts for the voting process? Unlikely. It has been run just fine without him during previous years.
As for the earning capability, yes, the faucets generally pay out more in null than in highsec, but it's still the same faucets and they aren't quite as freely available as in empire space. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Ira Theos
Viziam Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Ira Theos wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. No it isn't because all that would happen then is CCP would be accused of picking people who they have person relationships with. So you would prefer to have it populated with people who have a personal relationship with the Mittani? (and before anyone asks, I'm not an alt of the OP and don't know him at all.) Your point is what? Whether you hate or like The Mittani, the reason he is able to get so many votes is because of his influence in game. Maybe in a few years if you have done as half as much as he has done then maybe you can get people to vote for you instead. Also, if we follow your idea then the The Mittani is guaranteed a place on the CSM for life considering he is good friends with many CCP employees, so your idea is even more fail.
My point is that the Goons are over-represented in the CSM and always will be if CSM seats are determined by simple majority voting.
The Mittani's votes are due to his position as head cheese in SomethingAwful.com and has nothing to do with his position in Eve. He has this influence in any game the Goons touch solely by reason of this fact.
The Mittani hasn't "done" anything in Eve but coordinate Ass-Hattery.
and finally, if we follow my suggestion of Republican form of representation in choosing the CSM members, both the Eve community and CCP would benefit due to a more complete voicing of player segments as a result. |
Kessiaan
Greater Order Of Destruction Happy Endings
50
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 18:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.
And this different from RL political parties how? My killboard - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Kessiaan |
Killer Gandry
Shadow of the Pain
42
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 18:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Don't you think that if your statements were true we would see more DRF representatives in the CSM?
|
Prince Kobol
176
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 18:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ira Theos wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Ira Theos wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. No it isn't because all that would happen then is CCP would be accused of picking people who they have person relationships with. So you would prefer to have it populated with people who have a personal relationship with the Mittani? (and before anyone asks, I'm not an alt of the OP and don't know him at all.) Your point is what? Whether you hate or like The Mittani, the reason he is able to get so many votes is because of his influence in game. Maybe in a few years if you have done as half as much as he has done then maybe you can get people to vote for you instead. Also, if we follow your idea then the The Mittani is guaranteed a place on the CSM for life considering he is good friends with many CCP employees, so your idea is even more fail. My point is that the Goons are over-represented in the CSM and always will be if CSM seats are determined by simple majority voting. The Mittani's votes are due to his position as head cheese in SomethingAwful.com and has nothing to do with his position in Eve. He has this influence in any game the Goons touch solely by reason of this fact. The Mittani hasn't "done" anything in Eve but coordinate Ass-Hattery. and finally, if we follow my suggestion of Republican form of representation in choosing the CSM members, both the Eve community and CCP would benefit due to a more complete voicing of player segments as a result.
The Mittani is the head cheese of the Something Awful forums.. OMFG !!!!!!
Jesus I am laughing so hard I nearly pissed myself lol
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2685
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 18:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
There are approximately 7000 members of GSF. Let's be generous and assume that every single one of these members belongs to a seperate account which can vote
There are approximately 350,000 active accounts which can vote.
"Goons" make up a massive TWO PERCENT of the voting population.
It doesn't matter how much hysterical hurfblurf people spout out about the sneaky evil goons rigging this or controlling that (where do they get the time? ) the plain, incontestable, inconvenient, annoying fact is that they got their guy elected because they got their asses in gear, got motivated, got organised, got their members to actually vote, and as a result they got their result.
All the fancy STV schemes and reserved seats and consituencies and yadda yadda won't count for **** unless the people who are bawwing their little eyes out about MEAN OLE MITTENS cut out the slacktivism and god damb well VOTE. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
|
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
553
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 20:09:00 -
[31] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.
True, but the null dudes give **** about that they think they are beter and stuff.... |
Ira Theos
Viziam Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 20:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:There are approximately 7000 members of GSF. Let's be generous and assume that every single one of these members belongs to a seperate account which can vote
There are approximately 350,000 active accounts which can vote.
"Goons" make up a massive TWO PERCENT of the voting population.
It doesn't matter how much hysterical hurfblurf people spout out about the sneaky evil goons rigging this or controlling that (where do they get the time? ) the plain, incontestable, inconvenient, annoying fact is that they got their guy elected because they got their asses in gear, got motivated, got organised, got their members to actually vote, and as a result they got their result.
All the fancy STV schemes and reserved seats and consituencies and yadda yadda won't count for **** unless the people who are bawwing their little eyes out about MEAN OLE MITTENS cut out the slacktivism and god damb well VOTE.
If the Goons each had an average of just two accounts, then they would make up 4% by your own numbers. I suspect they have more than two accounts each on average. That still doesn't get to the heart of the issue of their voting power because it is more a question of how many votes can be focused on each potential CSM seat. I suspect if the Mittani coordinated his available votes more carefully, he might be able to fill all the CSM seats with Goons. Anyway your numbers are off because not all of the 350,000 number you throw around are actually active in the vote and that is what counts, so the Goons unified block vote has a disproportionate effect. This is enough to give them an "I-Win" button in the CSM every time. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 20:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ira Theos wrote:The Mittani hasn't "done" anything in Eve but coordinate Ass-Hattery. And you're surprised we love and vote for him?
|
2bhammered
Perkone Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 20:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
If you find a good candidate I promise to support his or hers campaign with funds and lasers. My only requirement is the candidate can not be a member of an 0.0 alliance, oh and he or she have to support my idea of a ranked based arena/bg system to be put in place into the game so one can have eve alliance tournament stylefighting everyday of the year with your own team!!!
again, if you are it or know who I will pledge funds and lasers to his or hers cause!! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1763
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 20:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:tippia gtfo out my thread, your opinion will never matter... now get out
tippia, a long-time eve-o poster vs "WhyTry1" some nobody posting with an NPC corp alt
I wonder whose opinion is more relevant hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm andski for csm7~ |
met worst
The Drongo Club
115
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 20:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
Not this subject again |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
229
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 21:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ira Theos wrote:Malcanis wrote:There are approximately 7000 members of GSF. Let's be generous and assume that every single one of these members belongs to a seperate account which can vote
There are approximately 350,000 active accounts which can vote.
"Goons" make up a massive TWO PERCENT of the voting population.
It doesn't matter how much hysterical hurfblurf people spout out about the sneaky evil goons rigging this or controlling that (where do they get the time? ) the plain, incontestable, inconvenient, annoying fact is that they got their guy elected because they got their asses in gear, got motivated, got organised, got their members to actually vote, and as a result they got their result.
All the fancy STV schemes and reserved seats and consituencies and yadda yadda won't count for **** unless the people who are bawwing their little eyes out about MEAN OLE MITTENS cut out the slacktivism and god damb well VOTE. If the Goons each had an average of just two accounts, then they would make up 4% by your own numbers. I suspect they have more than two accounts each on average. That still doesn't get to the heart of the issue of their voting power because it is more a question of how many votes can be focused on each potential CSM seat. I suspect if the Mittani coordinated his available votes more carefully, he might be able to fill all the CSM seats with Goons. Anyway your numbers are off because not all of the 350,000 number you throw around are actually active in the vote and that is what counts, so the Goons unified block vote has a disproportionate effect. This is enough to give them an "I-Win" button in the CSM every time. And by the way Malcanis? Why do you look so constipated??
You are aware that anyone can have two accounts or more correct?
I'm fine with people who have multiple accounts voting more than once because a)there's no way to regulate it even if you wanted to and b) people who bring in more revenue for CCP should get a larger say in the CSM.
|
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8185
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 21:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting. Except that's not what the phrase "rigged voting" means, at all. That's just an organized voting bloc.
Here's the relevant Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8185
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 21:50:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tippia wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. No, the reason they rarely get voted in is because they can't capture an audience or a following and try to rely on their small corps/alliances to get them in rather than to run a proper campaign. History has show as much. As usual Tippia's logic is spot-on. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8191
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 21:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ira Theos wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. The problem you describe is the primary downside of "pure" Democracy, that being http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majorityThis is why truly representative systems tend be more a form of Republicanism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RepublicanismYes, I agree that CCP should have a stronger hand in vetting and selecting the candidates based upon the theory that the CSM's function is to filter through ideas and opinions to CCP from various player segments of the game. As things are now, the Goons and certain Zero interests are too strongly represented. I'm surpised that anyone other than the Goons are even in the CSM. If the Mittani coordinated and allocated his troop's votes better, he could capture all the CSM seats. Something that would benefit the vast majority of the EVE playerbase would be proportional representation and selected transferable votes because in the present system a big chunk of the voting share is effectively "wasted" by people voting for this or that candidate, each one of a dozen or more who receive fewer than the minimum needed to gain a seat. With transferable votes there would be a lot more representation of the non-Goon interest on the CSM, because people could then delineate their votes to go to Candidate Y in the event that Candidate X is not elected, and so on. Right now one of the big advantages that an organized voting bloc like the Clusterfuck Coalition has over the rest of the game is that all of their votes go to specified candidates which will almost surely win positions whereas the rest of the game's population is left to blindly pick one of the other horses in the race and is left with no recourse or representation once that horse loses. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
|
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8191
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 21:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:Im sorry but learn about democracy! The only thing democratic is the freedom to vote. Apart from that you votes ARE GUARANTEED! its basically FIXED!! its your own damn alliance mates voting for you, therefore its FIXED!! Why don't you organize a political party then? With respect, if this was a real concern of yours then you've had nearly an entire year since the elections for CSM6 and during that time I don't see you having put together a voting bloc to challenge The Mittani or the other candidates whose seat of power rests upon organized voting. If you want to fight them, then do so; otherwise, you are just making a lot of discontented noise on an alt. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC 0ccupational Hazzard
145
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:This is actually not the issue at all. The rigged part of the voting process comes from multiple account holders and accounts purchased with Plex, combined with ISK faucets that only Null Sec alliances have access to. What ISK faucets would that be, seeing as how all faucets are a available in all space?
I think highsec bears are also ignoring their incursion faucet. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8191
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ira Theos wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Ira Theos wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. No it isn't because all that would happen then is CCP would be accused of picking people who they have person relationships with. So you would prefer to have it populated with people who have a personal relationship with the Mittani? (and before anyone asks, I'm not an alt of the OP and don't know him at all.) Your point is what? Whether you hate or like The Mittani, the reason he is able to get so many votes is because of his influence in game. Maybe in a few years if you have done as half as much as he has done then maybe you can get people to vote for you instead. Also, if we follow your idea then the The Mittani is guaranteed a place on the CSM for life considering he is good friends with many CCP employees, so your idea is even more fail. My point is that the Goons are over-represented in the CSM and always will be if CSM seats are determined by simple majority voting. The Mittani's votes are due to his position as head cheese in SomethingAwful.com and has nothing to do with his position in Eve. He has this influence in any game the Goons touch solely by reason of this fact. The Mittani hasn't "done" anything in Eve but coordinate Ass-Hattery. and finally, if we follow my suggestion of Republican form of representation in choosing the CSM members, both the Eve community and CCP would benefit due to a more complete voicing of player segments as a result. The Mittani, AKA Numismancer on Something Awful, is not the "head cheese". He is not even a moderator. He is just a random guy with a registered username who happens to play EVE. By contrast, Weaselior and VIle Rat, a couple of important people in GoonWaffe, are moderators on Something Awful. By your logic shouldn't they be the CEO of GoonWaffe, or the guy giving huge speeches at the State of the Goonion, or the ones that everyone hates on the CSM? Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1020
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:The Mittani, AKA Numismancer on Something Awful, is not the "head cheese". He is not even a moderator. He is just a random guy with a registered username who happens to play EVE. By contrast, Weaselior and VIle Rat, a couple of important people in GoonWaffe, are moderators on Something Awful. By your logic shouldn't they be the CEO of GoonWaffe, or the guy giving huge speeches at the State of the Goonion, or the ones that everyone hates on the CSM?
Vile Rat is on the CSM, and I think at least most people hate him. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
449
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:06:00 -
[45] - Quote
The Mittani is the leader of Something Awful? News to me. I didn't even think the place had a leader.
Whatever. I, for one, welcome our posting overlord. http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4614
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ira Theos wrote:My point is that the Goons are over-represented in the CSM and always will be if CSM seats are determined by simple majority voting. Good thing that CSM seats are not determined by simple majority voting, then. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8191
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:10:00 -
[47] - Quote
Feligast wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:The Mittani, AKA Numismancer on Something Awful, is not the "head cheese". He is not even a moderator. He is just a random guy with a registered username who happens to play EVE. By contrast, Weaselior and VIle Rat, a couple of important people in GoonWaffe, are moderators on Something Awful. By your logic shouldn't they be the CEO of GoonWaffe, or the guy giving huge speeches at the State of the Goonion, or the ones that everyone hates on the CSM? Vile Rat is on the CSM, and I think at least most people hate him. Oh. Well, okay then. Point. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8191
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. True, but the null dudes give **** about that they think they are beter and stuff.... Why do you think that? We're not all egotistical jerks. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
453
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
...Just most of us. http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Ai Shun
205
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:Im sorry but learn about democracy! The only thing democratic is the freedom to vote. Apart from that you votes ARE GUARANTEED! its basically FIXED!! its your own damn alliance mates voting for you, therefore its FIXED!!
If you want to get in, why don't you just get the support? Could it be because your ideas are not compelling? Or because you cannot communicate your ideals clearly? Or you cannot contact people? Because you are too lazy to work for a strong position within EVE Online? Because you cannot get support?
|
|
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
187
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
This isn't true....
It's a matter of effort.
Although I did not like Ankhesentapemkah she was voted into the CSM with the second highest votes of any candidate. And every other CSM candidate hated her. She got her votes via forum campaigns and IN-GAME going through all the popular mission systems and campaigning via local and mass mails.
She was anti-pirate, anti-griefer, anti-everything that wasn't faction warfare, missions running or pve related. She even went as far as to post that anybody who pirates and suicide ganks in-game are low life scum in real life that should be "dealt" with. (Yeah she was a bit off kilter)
Sadly, she didn't exactly pan out and her supporters were let down after she was removed from the CSM due to an NDA breach... And throwing metal spoons at other CSM across the table... :/
In any sense, nobody else has bothered to even make a serious effort since then, but she is proof that even the most unlikely candidates can get elected onto the CSM. I didn't like her, but her vote count proved that people wanted somebody like her to represent them, and I guess that's all that really matters.
LOL I actually get the shivers just bringing her up due to how bad that entire situation turned out. But she really is the perfect example to use in a reply to "CSM ELECTION IS RIGGED!" threads like this one. |
Imma outbidYOU
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:27:00 -
[52] - Quote
the csm members should have term limits. and any alliances with ccp employess should not be allowed to join as this is a form of insider trading. |
Ilany
Nightingale Enterprises
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:32:00 -
[53] - Quote
Andski wrote: tippia, a long-time eve-o poster vs "WhyTry1" some nobody posting with an NPC corp alt
I wonder whose opinion is more relevant hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Lol. Goon noob tells alt noob that forum ***** noob has been around for 3 whole years.
I'm not sure that "rigging" is the right word, but I agree with the OP that the current voting system cannot create a committee that reflects the interests of the player base. In a small group each delegate ought to be representative of a large proportion of the population, not the niche interests of 3-4% of customers. That's clearly not right.
However, I disagree with the idea that CCP should be in any way select candidates - that defeats the purpose. What they could do is stream them into specialised brackets (e.g. 3x 0.0 reps, 3 hi-sec/industry reps, 1 low-sec rep, 1 WH rep??) and each customer gets one vote for one person to one slot on the committee (no AV). It wouldn't stop the Goons voting Mittani into a slot, but it would allow for a bit of balance. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1773
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ilany wrote:Andski wrote: tippia, a long-time eve-o poster vs "WhyTry1" some nobody posting with an NPC corp alt
I wonder whose opinion is more relevant hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Lol. Goon noob tells alt noob that forum ***** noob has been around for 3 whole years.
nobody gives a **** about your opinion andski for csm7~ |
Weiland Taur
Ceptic Innovations Rebel Alliance of New Eden
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 23:22:00 -
[55] - Quote
Dztrgovac wrote:This isn't tyranny of majority. This is 15% of game population being organized into strong blocks being guaranteed to take all CSM seats. Vast majority of players will know nothing about the candidates available and either vote randomly of just not vote. EVE was supposed to be a game and game is supposed to be fun. But CCP has given too much influence and importance to CSM causing them to actually have quite a impact on game development and balance.
I have read in several different threads this accusation of CSM influence on the game. Do you know of any documentation that supports this? Besides the Mittani taking a great deal of credit for things lacking documented proof the last major case of player influence that seemed documented was the Incarna fallout.
And the voting patterns seem to be relative to real world examples with most of the players either uninterested in the meta politics and or believing their vote won't matter. The ability to know about candidates is there, the information is there and unlike real life equivalents no one is trying to make it harder or impossible for eve players to get the information needed and to vote.
Per the OP, in no way does having a large group that will vote for you somehow prove unsupported allegations of election rigging. Certain groups in Eve could have the same massive voting pool but fail to mobilize it.
|
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
187
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 23:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
I know I keep pointing to this, but AGAIN perceptions about the CSM elections being rigged are not at all the case. In CSM5 the second highest vote count was by a girl that did not get along with any of the power blocks, was anti pirate, anti-grief, anti-anything not PVE/FW/or industrial.
The problem is nobody has put the effort in to get those votes since her. Ankhesentapemkah won primarily through industrialists, people in NPC corps, and mission runners voting for her.
Now what IS true is that it is easier for somebody representing a power block to get voted in with much less effort than a newcomer from HISEC. But that doesn't mean its rigged, nor that it's completely out of reach.
CSM5 Elections - Results
The elections for the fifth CSM have ended. This election saw a record turnout both in terms of numbers of votes and the proportion of eligible voters that chose to vote. This election was a tight race with some rather fierce campaigning going on. I'm proud to be able to announce that the delegates of the fifth Council of Stellar Management will be:
Votes-Character Name-Real Name-Country 4,116 Mynxee Carole Pivarnik United States 3,360 Ankhesentapemkah Eva Jobse Netherlands 2,521 Dierdra Vaal Valentijn Geirnaert Netherlands 2,196 Korvin Andrey Antonov Russia 1,649 Vuk Lau Vuk Lau Serbia 1,553 TeaDaze Jason Renouf Guernsey 1,519 Meissa Anunthiel Stephan Pirson Belgium 1,463 Trebor Daehdoow Robert Woodhead United States 1,260 Sokratesz Tim Heusschen Netherlands |
Buff Jesus
20
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 23:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
The CSM elections work the same way elections in real life work. Yes, an every-man from nowhere can get elected but they will have a much harder time of it than someone with full political party backing who gets more media coverage.
Study real world democratic processes before you claim a virtual one that doesn't serve your individual needs is "rigged". New Favorite Eve Hobby: Bumping BS's with a Crow. |
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 23:59:00 -
[58] - Quote
I had, some months ago, decided to vote for anyone endorsed by the worst possible null-sec alliance. I had, back then, the intention of voting for whomever the IRC HC decided to endorse, since personal experience with the HC told me that such a person would be most likely to "ruin EVE". I also pondered on the chance of a known botter getting my vote, since known botters most certainly are "ruining EVE". Now, however, after reading this huge number of threads against Mittani or GSF or CFC dominance in the CSM, I might vote for whoever GSF/CFC endorses, since popular opinion is that they are most likely to "ruin EVE".
Now, some of you might ask for the logic behind this decision? Well, since the launch of Incursion (I started around when Incursion launch-date was announced), I've seen that everything that is about to ruin EVE makes for either a great feature or at least a noteworthy experience. And this CSM was apparently predicted to destroy EVE the most, yet they were a part of what made CCP back out of the Incarna way of thinking and into Crucible & "War Themed Expansion". Granted, not everything is perfect, and probably neither CSM7, but if things meant to ruin EVE either makes great additions or at least good experiences to learn from, well, I'll vote for total annihilation every day of the week.
Thanks Mittani, Vile Rat, GSF & CFC, you'll always keep that honorary -10 standing in my heart. <3 |
Ilany
Nightingale Enterprises
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 00:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
Andski wrote:Ilany wrote:Andski wrote: tippia, a long-time eve-o poster vs "WhyTry1" some nobody posting with an NPC corp alt I wonder whose opinion is more relevant hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Lol. Goon noob tells alt noob that forum ***** noob has been around for 3 whole years. nobody gives a **** about your opinion
What, and you think anyone apart from goon circle-jerkers care about your bilious drivel? Dream on.
Buff Jesus wrote:The CSM elections work the same way elections in real life work. Yes, an every-man from nowhere can get elected but they will have a much harder time of it than someone with full political party backing who gets more media coverage.
The difference here is that the percentage of the population that votes for the candidates who actually get in is probably equivalent to the percentage of the population in major real-world democracies that votes for those "every man" candidates. You know, those weird people in silly costumes who appear behind the major party candidates on the platform when the results are called... except they win. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
231
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 00:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ira Theos wrote:I'm surpised that anyone other than the Goons are even in the CSM. If the Mittani coordinated and allocated his troop's votes better, he could capture all the CSM seats.
You are surprised because you don't get how their mentality works.
Nyx in hi sec: http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7929/highsecnyxforsale.jpg |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1773
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 00:53:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ilany wrote:What, and you think anyone apart from goon circle-jerkers care about your bilious drivel? Dream on.
so bitter
must've been scammed or suicide ganked vOv andski for csm7~ |
Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
365
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 00:53:00 -
[62] - Quote
uhhhhhhh
a vote for mittens is a vote for kittens |
Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
365
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 00:54:00 -
[63] - Quote
also circlejerking is amazing, it's all of the reward with so little effort |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
545
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 01:38:00 -
[64] - Quote
TIL that there is a human being who considers "winning a general election due to massive support from his allies" as a form of vote rigging. |
Botleten
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
258
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 02:08:00 -
[65] - Quote
Confirmed, CCP is ran by goons who rig the CSM election to ensure we win, but they only decided to do it that one year last year, and they also only put 2 goons on the council. But yeah, you're totally right dude, its 100% rigged.
Also confirming, goons do have circle jerks. Lots of them. |
Connaght Badasaz
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
26
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 02:08:00 -
[66] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:There are approximately 7000 members of GSF. Let's be generous and assume that every single one of these members belongs to a seperate account which can vote
There are approximately 350,000 active accounts which can vote.
"Goons" make up a massive TWO PERCENT of the voting population.
It doesn't matter how much hysterical hurfblurf people spout out about the sneaky evil goons rigging this or controlling that (where do they get the time? ) the plain, incontestable, inconvenient, annoying fact is that they got their guy elected because they got their asses in gear, got motivated, got organised, got their members to actually vote, and as a result they got their result.
All the fancy STV schemes and reserved seats and consituencies and yadda yadda won't count for **** unless the people who are bawwing their little eyes out about MEAN OLE MITTENS cut out the slacktivism and god damb well VOTE.
Well no matter the source, I throw the bullshit flag on 350k..
And what part of vote for the alliance leader don't you get? seems reasonable, load up the CSM and giggle about it. It fits. |
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 03:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
Botleten wrote:Confirmed, CCP is ran by goons who rig the CSM election to ensure we win, but they only decided to do it that one year last year, and they also only put 2 goons on the council. But yeah, you're totally right dude, its 100% rigged.
Also confirming, goons do have circle jerks. Lots of them. Confirming that CCP/CFC/CSM is all the same person with a lot of computers and a sympathy for the devil, as performed by Rolling Stones. I know this through my superior divination powers that gives me a huge insight into things I haven't tried, seen or inquired about. It is the same divination power that enables me to say that all 0.0 alliances are 190% botters and that Lyris Nairn is everyone's alt character.
+ 1 important spaceship game forum like. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8211
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 03:19:00 -
[68] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:I had, some months ago, decided to vote for anyone endorsed by the worst possible null-sec alliance. I had, back then, the intention of voting for whomever the IRC HC decided to endorse, since personal experience with the HC told me that such a person would be most likely to "ruin EVE". I also pondered on the chance of a known botter getting my vote, since known botters most certainly are "ruining EVE". Now, however, after reading this huge number of threads against Mittani or GSF or CFC dominance in the CSM, I might vote for whoever GSF/CFC endorses, since popular opinion is that they are most likely to "ruin EVE".
Now, some of you might ask for the logic behind this decision? Well, since the launch of Incursion (I started around when Incursion launch-date was announced), I've seen that everything that is about to ruin EVE makes for either a great feature or at least a noteworthy experience. And this CSM was apparently predicted to destroy EVE the most, yet they were a part of what made CCP back out of the Incarna way of thinking and into Crucible & "War Themed Expansion". Granted, not everything is perfect, and probably neither CSM7, but if things meant to ruin EVE either makes great additions or at least good experiences to learn from, well, I'll vote for total annihilation every day of the week.
Thanks Mittani, Vile Rat, GSF & CFC, you'll always keep that honorary -10 standing in my heart. <3 Vote for me, instead! I am the independent, non-endorsed Goon running for CSM7 Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
105
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 03:24:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tippia wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. No, the reason they rarely get voted in is because they can't capture an audience or a following and try to rely on their small corps/alliances to get them in rather than to run a proper campaign. History has show as much.
Considering the argument here, is that Null Alliances use "...corps/alliances to get them in rather than to run a proper campaign;" your statement is a little ironic, and maybe somewhat daft.
I don't mind you Tippia, (really I don't), but you say the strangest things sometimes. TIIP: The Incredible Invisible Poster |
Conrad Makbure
Division One Security
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 03:48:00 -
[70] - Quote
There should be 2 CSM parties, one to represent the null community and one to represent the high sec community. There might not be bipartisan stance on anything, but it would show two sides to things when they come up.
But how do you determine the high sec community since it can be infiltrated much easier than the null sec community? |
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Karadion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
338
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 03:50:00 -
[71] - Quote
You're right! Let's just make The Mittani the CSM Dictator for Life. |
Selinate
629
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 04:22:00 -
[72] - Quote
Vote with your wallet. As seen by recent events, that tends to get CCP's attention fairly quick if enough people do it. |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
71
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 04:36:00 -
[73] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:Tippia wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. No, the reason they rarely get voted in is because they can't capture an audience or a following and try to rely on their small corps/alliances to get them in rather than to run a proper campaign. History has show as much. tippia gtfo out my thread, your opinion will never matter... now get out An OP that 'discusses' like that disqualifies himself from being taken seriously.. Good job mate, saves me to read the remainder of your thread.
|
Selinate
629
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 04:39:00 -
[74] - Quote
I was going to say something more, but I just don't think I could care any less at all in any way about a couple of nerds who actually want to run for office in a video game. If that's how they want to spend their time, whatever. If they take the game down with them, I have a lot of other games I can play. Seriously, CSM is just one of the things in Eve that doesn't even deserve discussion... |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 05:20:00 -
[75] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Thanks Mittani, Vile Rat, GSF & CFC, you'll always keep that honorary -10 standing in my heart. <3 Drop by some time, but you might be killed and podded.
I do admire your position on voting for most likely to ruin EVE. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4619
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 09:34:00 -
[76] - Quote
Killstealing wrote:uhhhhhhh
a vote for mittens is a vote for kittens Don't be silly. A vote for mittens is a vote for puppies! GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
290
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 09:46:00 -
[77] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:Im sorry but learn about democracy! The only thing democratic is the freedom to vote. Apart from that you votes ARE GUARANTEED! its basically FIXED!! its your own damn alliance mates voting for you, therefore its FIXED!!
I am confuse... So if teh people who like you vote for you, as oppose to voting for someone they dont like, they are fixing the voting? Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
226
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 10:39:00 -
[78] - Quote
Democracy depends on a balance, where every vote is percieved to be equal. The goons ruin that ballance and not every vote is percieved as equal with them.
Dont think it matters too much for goons in general, since every CSM wants their position back really. If only the goon CSM wanted their spots back it might be a goon problem, but seemed like they all wanted the seat again for 2012. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
Countess Markievicz
Countess Markievicz Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
This is meant in a light hearted way
Whenever I see a post by Tippia, which is quite often, I am always reminded of the Buddy Holly song: Listen to me.
CM |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
431
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:32:00 -
[80] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:This is actually not the issue at all. The rigged part of the voting process comes from multiple account holders and accounts purchased with Plex, combined with ISK faucets that only Null Sec alliances have access to. What ISK faucets would that be, seeing as how all faucets are a available in all space?
Say wah?
Your posts are beginning to lessen in quality lately. Maybe a secret new account holder for Tippa?
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4620
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:36:00 -
[81] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:What ISK faucets would that be, seeing as how all faucets are a available in all space? Say wah? EVE has six ISK faucets:
- NPC bounties
- NPC buy orders
- Mission rewards
- Insurance payout
- GM actions: Reimbursement for lost pods
- Character creation
Aside from character creation (which doesn't really exist in space at all, but which dumps you in highsec), all of them are available in all parts of space. So I'm asking you: what ISK faucets only the nullsec alliances have access to? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
431
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
Tippia wrote: what ISK faucets only the nullsec alliances have access to?
HQ Sacntums + moon mining + High NPC bounties all feeding into corporate wallets and the wallets of alliance leaders. I wish the average EVE Online player wasn't so dumb as to believe crap like what your like is spewing. Anyone with an average amount of sense knows that Null Sec alliances have access to godly amounts of ISK. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Prince Kobol
177
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:40:00 -
[83] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.
Already covered that this would be a terrible idea but hen again you are the worst poster in Eve...
I
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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:45:00 -
[84] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote: what ISK faucets only the nullsec alliances have access to? HQ Sacntums + moon mining + High NPC bounties all feeding into corporate wallets and the wallets of alliance leaders. I wish the average EVE Online player wasn't so dumb as to believe crap like what your like is spewing. Anyone with an average amount of sense knows that Null Sec alliances have access to godly amounts of ISK. moon mining = no1 isk faucet
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4620
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:47:00 -
[85] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:HQ Sacntums + moon mining + High NPC bounties all feeding into corporate wallets and the wallets of alliance leaders. GǪexcept that moon mining isn't an ISK faucet and that the others are available in other sectors of space.
Quote: I wish the average EVE Online player wasn't so dumb as to believe crap like what your like is spewing. Wow. That really demonstrated in full detail what's wrong with what I just saidGǪ
GǪi.e. nothing. That's why they listen to me: because it's not crap and I actually have a clue what I'm talking about. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
431
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:52:00 -
[86] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote: what ISK faucets only the nullsec alliances have access to? HQ Sacntums + moon mining + High NPC bounties all feeding into corporate wallets and the wallets of alliance leaders. I wish the average EVE Online player wasn't so dumb as to believe crap like what your like is spewing. Anyone with an average amount of sense knows that Null Sec alliances have access to godly amounts of ISK. moon mining = no1 isk faucet
If you say so. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
132
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:52:00 -
[87] - Quote
Play fair Tippia at least explain the difference to the those who might be uninitiated about what the difference is between personal income generation/spending and a game faucet/sink. It is easy to get confused with the analogy if you are unaware to the terms in EvE.
I know no-one is paying you to educate the masses, but a little bit of philanthropy for forum decorum?
"All griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems." |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
431
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:53:00 -
[88] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:HQ Sacntums + moon mining + High NPC bounties all feeding into corporate wallets and the wallets of alliance leaders. GǪexcept that moon mining isn't an ISK faucet and that the others are available in other sectors of space. Quote: I wish the average EVE Online player wasn't so dumb as to believe crap like what your like is spewing. Wow. That really demonstrated in full detail what's wrong with what I just saidGǪ GǪi.e. nothing. That's why they listen to me: because it's not crap and I actually have a clue what I'm talking about. The reason you think it's crap is because you're clueless. In this case, you're clueless about what GǣISK faucetsGǥ are.
I don't know what to tell you miss sunshine, but you could not be further from the truth on this one. Maybe you don't know how the big alliances work?
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4621
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:57:00 -
[89] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Play fair Tippia at least explain the difference to the those who might be uninitiated about what the difference is between personal income generation and a game faucet/sink. It is easy to get confused with the analogy if you are unaware to the terms in EvE. ISK faucet = a mechanic that adds ISK out of nowhere to the overall EVE economy. ISK sink = a mechanic that flushes ISK into /dev/null and removes it from the overall EVE economy.
Faucets:- NPC bounties
- NPC buy orders
- Mission rewards
- Insurance payout
- GM actions: Reimbursement for lost pods
- Character creation
Sinks:- Market taxes & fees: Broker fees, Sales tax
- NPC sell orders
- NPC station services: Repairs, Jump clone installation, Medical clone installation/upgrade/station change, Science and industry slot rental, Ship insurance
- NPC station office fees: Rent, Impound penalties
- Wardecs
- Sovereignty fees
- PI fees: Building PI structures, Import/export tax (from NPC-owned customs offices)
- Corp & alliance fees: Corp creation, Alliance creation, Alliance upkeep, Creating/awarding medals, Corp registry ads
- Agent fees: (Certain) LP store items, Locator agent services, Courier missions w/ deposits
- CSPA Charges
- Smuggling fines
- GM Actions: Removal of bought ISK, Removal of insurance after ship reimbursement
- Character deletion
Everything else GÇö most notably player-to-player trading GÇö is neither: it's simply a way to move ISK from one person to the next without changing the total amount of ISK in the economy (in practice, most trading is actually a tiny ISK sink due to the taxes and broker fees). The movement of ISK in and out of your wallet is entirely irrelevant to determining if something is a faucet or sink; what matters is the source and destination of the ISK. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4621
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:58:00 -
[90] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I don't know what to tell you miss sunshine, but you could not be further from the truth on this one. Maybe you don't know how the big alliances work? I know how the economy works, which is why I know you're hilariously wrong. If you fixed your cranirectal syndrome and paid attention, you might accidentally learn something. I highly recommend it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
431
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 15:04:00 -
[91] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I don't know what to tell you miss sunshine, but you could not be further from the truth on this one. Maybe you don't know how the big alliances work? I know how the economy works, which is why I know you're hilariously wrong. If you fixed your cranirectal syndrome and paid attention, you might accidentally learn something. I highly recommend it.
You may know numbers but you are failing to account for the human element. A simpletons mistake TBH, but what can you do? You can't educate some people once they have their mind made up. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4621
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 15:11:00 -
[92] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You may know numbers but you are failing to account for the human element. The human element does not change whether or not something is a faucet or sink, nor does it give nullsec access to any mysterious ISK faucets that are not available in all sections of space. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
229
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 15:18:00 -
[93] - Quote
The reason moon mining isnt an ISK faucet, is becaouse ISK isnt mined from them. Tech is. Then tech is traded for ISK.
People have to do missions or incursions or bounty stuff for that isk, then they trade it for teck to make items. Or miners mine tritanium then trade that for isk players recieved from missions and bounties and such.
To make mining or moon mining ISK faucets you would have to place NPC buy orders that you could sell what you mined to. Then they would be a ISK faucet. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
431
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 15:24:00 -
[94] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:You may know numbers but you are failing to account for the human element. The human element does not change whether or not something is a faucet or sink, nor does it give nullsec access to any mysterious ISK faucets that are not available in all sections of space.
In that case, no ISK is mysteriously missing from the wallets of Null Sec leaders. Right? Because, the human element can't make these things personal ISK faucets. I had painted you more Savvy then this, but I guess I was mistaken. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4621
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 15:29:00 -
[95] - Quote
rodyas wrote:To make mining or moon mining ISK faucets you would have to place NPC buy orders that you could sell what you mined to. Then they would be a ISK faucet. GǪand even then, the actual faucet would be the NPC buy orders, not the mining itself.
Eternum Praetorian wrote:In that case, no ISK is mysteriously missing from the wallets of Null Sec leaders. Right? Because, the human element can't make these things personal ISK faucets. I had painted you more Savvy then this, but I guess I was mistaken. Your point being? Anyway, no matter your lack of artistry in applying pigment, the simple fact remains: the nullsec entities do not have access to any special ISK faucets that aren't available to everyone else, quite contrary to your claim. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
431
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 15:31:00 -
[96] - Quote
Truth be told, there is more wealth in Null sec then anywhere else... because of the ISK "wells" they have cultivated.
There, is that better wording for you? You know damn well what I am talking about, although you choose to dilute it for your own purposes. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
308
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 15:33:00 -
[97] - Quote
Nullsec will always win the CSM as they have block voting. This ofc is always the case as nullsec alliances tend to be the biggest.
And nullsec is always interested in nullsec.
If the goons get the russians behind them then its natural that the Mittans the Mighty will always win
Dont sweat it dude.
EDIT: to the OP ignore Tippia he is a Tard who has no reason to make any sense. He just likes posting regardless of content Something Awful. A beacon for tearful, lonely neckbeards. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4621
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 15:34:00 -
[98] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:There, is that better wording for you? Pointlessly complicated. Just say that it's easier to earn iSK.
Quote:You know damn well what I am talking about, although you choose to dilute it for your own purposes. When you use terms that mean something drastically different than how you use them, I'm not sure I do, and more importantly, I'm not sure you do.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
431
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 15:41:00 -
[99] - Quote
Just because you choose to define a faucet as a purely In game mechanism, it does not follow that I should as well. A faucet is anything that brings forth ISK in abundance, and for me that includes things like corporate taxes and researching Titan BPO's.
Your opinion is not exclusively true throughout all of EVE Online. You may want to take that into better consideration. Most people here do not have the debating skills necessary to argue with you, so they simply accept what you say with less question then they should. That, and the average person is far too easily swayed. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Cass Lie
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 15:53:00 -
[100] - Quote
Ofc Tippia is right, but that is hardly post-worthy when the thing in question is so elementary and obvious.
So Eternum rephrased that to "there is more wealth in Null sec then anywhere else". Well, is there? High sec has practically unlimited production slots, and, to a good approximation, every item in game gets produced there. You would imagine the high sec industrialists are making quite good isk compared to the paltry numbers reached by production poses in null.
Now take the big alliances individually and lets assume they don't make crazy money off tech (because only a select few with supercapital dominance do). Main source of income are usually per-member fees paid by corps, which in turn get their isk from individual ratting taxes (a thing unheard of in > 0.4). In high sec, the only comparable entity large enough (excluding EVE UNI and RvB) is the incursion runner community and we all know the numbers that are flowing there. Even the mission runners make comparable isk to null if they are doing it right, and that is without taxes, upgrade costs etc. Life for an average alliance grunt could be quite harsh if you are living outside of Deklein. So, who has more wealth at their disposal? |
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Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
431
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 16:09:00 -
[101] - Quote
Cass Lie wrote:Ofc Tippia is right, but that is hardly post-worthy when the thing in question is so elementary and obvious.
So Eternum rephrased that to "there is more wealth in Null sec then anywhere else". Well, is there? High sec has practically unlimited production slots, and, to a good approximation, every item in game gets produced there. You would imagine the high sec industrialists are making quite good isk compared to the paltry numbers reached by production poses in null.
Now take the big alliances individually and lets assume they don't make crazy money off tech (because only a select few with supercapital dominance do). Main source of income are usually per-member fees paid by corps, which in turn get their isk from individual ratting taxes (a thing unheard of in > 0.4). In high sec, the only comparable entity large enough (excluding EVE UNI and RvB) is the incursion runner community and we all know the numbers that are flowing there. Even the mission runners make comparable isk to null if they are doing it right, and that is without taxes, upgrade costs etc. Life for an average alliance grunt could be quite harsh if you are living outside of Deklein. So, who has more wealth at their disposal?
We are not talking about alliance grunts though. We are talking about the top 1% of eve's population that sport the highest passive income in the game. I have been part of Titan building operations, Tech 3 production operations and Alliance-wide sovereignty taking operations.
Simply put, anyone who is anybody knows how to game empire. I guess you do not know who owns a significant share of those research and production slots and who is reaping said income? Those same individuals, in sizable portion are. High sec does not belong to Empire dwellers, but instead alts of very old players who now reside in Null Sec and those individuals that they choose to associate themselves with.
Quote:Now take the big alliances individually and lets assume they don't make crazy money off tech (because only a select few with supercapital dominance do)
Guess who has representatives in the CSM? The biggest and wealthiest alliances, which further proves the point at hand. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Nisha Valone
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 16:18:00 -
[102] - Quote
Though I haven't actually taken part in any of the previous CSM elections, I highly doubt there is any rigging involved. If the goal of the CSM is to have players have a vote in the direction the game development takes with the aim of improving it and making it more appealing to its player base then rigging it would defy its very purpose.
If people like The Mittani have an easy, but not guaranteed, spot on the council it's because a vote for him is more appealing than a vote for the other candidates. This can be the case because he can draw more on internal resources such as the members of his corporation/alliance, because his ideas are more in tune with the EVE community or simply because he is better at public relations than the other candidates but that's one of the core principles of a western democratic system to begin with.
And while it is true that people with more accounts can have more votes, they also make out a larger portion of the player base either because they spend more time at EVE or because they pay more at their monthly subscriptions. Essentially this makes the election somewhat of an oligarchy, rather than a democracy but who is to say that people with a lesser impact on EVE should have an equal amount of influence in elections.
This doesn't take away the fact that a player who is more familiar with 0.0 is more suitable to represent the best interests of 0.0 while a high sec player would be better aware of high sec issues.
Instead of changing the way the votes are being cast it would be more to the point if the CSM, with its pre-determined number of spots, would be divided between those elected for the improvement of high sec and those elected for the improvement of 0.0/low sec, the division based upon a measurable variable such as system traffic.
For example if there are 10 seats on the council and 60% of the player traffic goes through high sec systems and 40% goes through 0.0 or low sec than there would be 6 members on the council representing the interests of high sec and 4 members representing the interests of 0.0 or low sec.
High sec CSM members would discuss matters of high sec, 0.0/low sec CSM members would do the same for low sec. Issues that involve the entirety of the game would be discussed by all CSM members simultaneously. Eventually the conclusions that need to be drawn from the results of these discussions should remain with CCP, deciding on wether to follow the advice, put it in a poll to the community or dismiss it altogether.
Just an idea. |
Cass Lie
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 16:24:00 -
[103] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote: Simply put, anyone who is anybody knows how to game empire. I guess you do not know who owns a significant share of those research and production slots and who is reaping said income? Those same individuals, in sizable portion are. High sec does not belong to Empire dwellers, but instead alts of very old players who now reside in Null Sec and those individuals that they choose to associate themselves with.
I am not that naive and I agree with you there, to an extent (a lot of people have indy alts, even the newcomers). Which is also the reason why the current CSM is pushing for more production possibilities in null and even low maybe. This would benefit not only the top alliance dogs, but it would probably (depends on implementation ofc.) make worthless regions of null (I am looking at you provi) viable again. |
Zowie Powers
Hole in the wall
45
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 16:45:00 -
[104] - Quote
Little Known CSM Factoid #4
Pressing "Abstain" does absolutely nothing, registers no opinion anywhere and will be disregarded as merely a number of number who clicked it.
Actually Abstaining but not clicking ANYTHING would be the most powerful act if everybody would actually do it. Sadly, some people quite enjoy an all expenses party in Iceland too much for that. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1021
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 16:58:00 -
[105] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:Tippia wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. No, the reason they rarely get voted in is because they can't capture an audience or a following and try to rely on their small corps/alliances to get them in rather than to run a proper campaign. History has show as much. tippia gtfo out my thread, your opinion will never matter... now get out
Nice, straight to the point. +1 'Like'.
We can always hope that would happen but it's a sure bet that her 'Highness' will continuously spout her sanctimonious drivel in each and every thread posted in these forums. I sincerely think it might be due to massive amounts of hot air coming from an over inflated ego coupled with a nasty superiority complex.
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
229
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:00:00 -
[106] - Quote
Yeah there is alot to lose by abstaining, no icelands like ya said, as well as no talking to devs and CEO about issues and such.
Almost a catch 22 really, if you dont want to talk to devs and such why play the game at all? If you abstained from election it would almost like cancelling account or close to it. No reason to talk to the people who make the game, doesnt sound like you enjoy it either. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:15:00 -
[107] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote: what ISK faucets only the nullsec alliances have access to? HQ Sacntums + moon mining + High NPC bounties all feeding into corporate wallets and the wallets of alliance leaders. I wish the average EVE Online player wasn't so dumb as to believe crap like what your like is spewing. Anyone with an average amount of sense knows that Null Sec alliances have access to godly amounts of ISK. moon mining = no1 isk faucet If you say so.
....
For once I'm cheering Tippia. You're an idiot. |
Zowie Powers
Hole in the wall
45
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:15:00 -
[108] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Yeah there is alot to lose by abstaining, no icelands like ya said, as well as no talking to devs and CEO about issues and such.
Almost a catch 22 really, if you dont want to talk to devs and such why play the game at all? If you abstained from election it would almost like cancelling account or close to it. No reason to talk to the people who make the game, doesnt sound like you enjoy it either.
We had more direct influence before the CSM ever existed. Threadnoughts do work, have worked and will always work. CSM does not. |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
235
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:18:00 -
[109] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Nice, straight to the point. +1 'Like'.
We can always hope that would happen but it's a sure bet that her 'Highness' will continuously spout her sanctimonious drivel in each and every thread posted in these forums. I sincerely think it might be due to massive amounts of hot air coming from an over inflated ego coupled with a nasty superiority complex.
I like that you can't attack any of Tippia's arguments so you just settle for insults.
Although I would have to guess that someone who doesn't even know what wspace probably doesn't have much credibility to stand on in terms of game mechanics.
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:So you're young to unite all those people but leave wormhole alliances out of it? So Much for that balance you proposed. W-hole Alliances? Isn't W-Hole space the same as Null Sec or 0.0 Alliance space? I might be mistaken but I thought the 'Voice Of Reason Party' was a platform for independent corps, single player PvE careers, Industrialists, RP and high sec game mechanics? If not then I better go find another party.
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P42ALPHA
DEAD-ON
35
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:21:00 -
[110] - Quote
I am starting to believe ppl in EVE do not even know why they are upset. This thread demostrates that far beyond anything I have seen so far.
But all 3 of my accounts will be voting for Mittens. He, unlike most ppl believe is good for the CSM. And I can tell you I disagree with much of what he says.
So that is 3 non GOON votes. Freedom at its best:P
Tears are so sweet. "All hail Wang ... the little fella in Command. When 'trouble' starts to spread, I'm sure he will rise to the occasion."
Azahni Vah'nos (Best reply ever) |
|
Zimmy Zeta
Battle Force Industries Tactical Invader Syndicate
792
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:26:00 -
[111] - Quote
P42ALPHA wrote:I am starting to believe ppl in EVE do not even know why they are upset. This thread demostrates that far beyond anything I have seen so far.
But all 3 of my accounts will be voting for Mittens. He, unlike most ppl believe is good for the CSM. And I can tell you I disagree with much of what he says.
So that is 3 non GOON votes. Freedom at its best:P
Tears are so sweet.
That would be a waste of three good votes. You see, Mittani is going to make it automatically, and I think Vile Rat, too. If you want a unified CSM that speaks with one voice, you should vote for the non-endorsed goons like Andski or Lyris Nairn. Less opposition for Mittani means more Mittani for your votes.
-.- |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4623
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:34:00 -
[112] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:it's a sure bet that her 'Highness' will continuously spout her sanctimonious drivel in each and every thread posted in these forums. I sincerely think it might be due to massive amounts of hot air coming from an over inflated ego coupled with a nasty superiority complex. Questioning utter nonsense and trivially disproven claims is not particularly sanctimonious, nor is it the result of some kind of superiority complex. It's simply the result of being able have a rational thought and believing that it helps if you have actual arguments if you want to drive a point.
The fact of the matter is that history has shown the OP's premise to be completely false. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
363
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:39:00 -
[113] - Quote
Ilany wrote:Andski wrote: tippia, a long-time eve-o poster vs "WhyTry1" some nobody posting with an NPC corp alt
I wonder whose opinion is more relevant hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Lol. Goon noob tells alt noob that forum ***** noob has been around for 3 whole years. I'm not sure that "rigging" is the right word, but I agree with the OP that the current voting system cannot create a committee that reflects the interests of the player base. In a small group each delegate ought to be representative of a large proportion of the population, not the niche interests of 3-4% of customers. That's clearly not right. However, I disagree with the idea that CCP should be in any way select candidates - that defeats the purpose. What they could do is stream them into specialised brackets (e.g. 3x 0.0 reps, 3 hi-sec/industry reps, 1 low-sec rep, 1 WH rep??) and each customer gets one vote for one person to one slot on the committee (no AV). It wouldn't stop the Goons voting Mittani into a slot, but it would allow for a bit of balance.
It's not up to the system or CCP to create the committee, it's up to you.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
229
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:41:00 -
[114] - Quote
Zowie Powers wrote:rodyas wrote:Yeah there is alot to lose by abstaining, no icelands like ya said, as well as no talking to devs and CEO about issues and such.
Almost a catch 22 really, if you dont want to talk to devs and such why play the game at all? If you abstained from election it would almost like cancelling account or close to it. No reason to talk to the people who make the game, doesnt sound like you enjoy it either. We had more direct influence before the CSM ever existed. Threadnoughts do work, have worked and will always work. CSM does not.
The best part about relying on threadnoughts to be better then the CSM is that the US supreme court ruled that threadnoughts are people too just in time for this election. What is better then a threadnought on this forum, is a threadnought that has a free flight to iceland to talk to the devs. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
363
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:46:00 -
[115] - Quote
Tippia wrote:rodyas wrote:To make mining or moon mining ISK faucets you would have to place NPC buy orders that you could sell what you mined to. Then they would be a ISK faucet. GǪand even then, the actual faucet would be the NPC buy orders, not the mining itself. Eternum Praetorian wrote:In that case, no ISK is mysteriously missing from the wallets of Null Sec leaders. Right? Because, the human element can't make these things personal ISK faucets. I had painted you more Savvy then this, but I guess I was mistaken. Your point being? Anyway, no matter your lack of artistry in applying pigment, the simple fact remains: the nullsec entities do not have access to any special ISK faucets that aren't available to everyone else, quite contrary to your claim. You can try to move the goalposts as much as you like GÇö you being plain old wrong doesn't change.
As a null sec entity, we actually have more sinks than empire.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1218
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:01:00 -
[116] - Quote
Well I think I'm living proof its possible for an independent from a small corp/alliance to win the CSM elections. I was the first chair of the CSM defeating Darius Johnson of Goonswarm and Hardin of the CVA who both had huge alliance blocs behind them simply by running a high profile campaign and doing a lot of hard work on the campaign trail (and having an excellent team behind me).
So it is possible.
But that said, I do think its got harder for independent candidates recently to compete with the alliance blocs and there has been some evidence of "rigging" (4 hour trial accounts etc) I guess "exploiting weaknesses in the voting system" might be closer to the mark since what Goonswarm did last time is the virtual equivilence of lorry driving in homeless people from another state and registering them to vote for a particular candidate in exchange for a bottle of hooch to play havoc with the ordinary voting demographics.
This is pretty easy to fix. Trial accounts don't get a vote. I'd be inclined to say that there should be a minimum age of character that should vote too. Maybe 1 month. It won't entirely solve election manipulation but it'll help.
But the bigger issue is that 0.0 alliance blocs will always find it easier to pressgang their members into voting than the vast unwashed hoards of highsec. And in a system where minority actually vote you get fringe mentalist candidates dominating the story.
I think CCP need to take a leaf from Australia's voting system and make voting mandatory for every eve player who is on a full account and has existed for one month. During the voting period you get a pop up on the launcher that prompts you to cast a vote. CCP already has the ability to randomize the order of candidates on the voting page - so no alphabetic favouritism and let the candidates stand on their message. (abstain should be an option of course)
In exchange for the inconvenience a six pack of quafe zero arrives in the hanger of the person who just voted.
Everyone wins, democracy triumphs - no more CSM chairs with complete dominance of the council voted by a tiny fraction of the player base.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
235
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:08:00 -
[117] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Well I think I'm living proof its possible for an independent from a small corp/alliance to win the CSM elections. I was the first chair of the CSM defeating Darius Johnson of Goonswarm and Hardin of the CVA who both had huge alliance blocs behind them simply by running a high profile campaign and doing a lot of hard work on the campaign trail (and having an excellent team behind me).
So it is possible.
But that said, I do think its got harder for independent candidates recently to compete with the alliance blocs and there has been some evidence of "rigging" (4 hour trial accounts etc) I guess "exploiting weaknesses in the voting system" might be closer to the mark since what Goonswarm did last time is the virtual equivilence of lorry driving in homeless people from another state and registering them to vote for a particular candidate in exchange for a bottle of hooch to play havoc with the ordinary voting demographics.
This is pretty easy to fix. Trial accounts don't get a vote. I'd be inclined to say that there should be a minimum age of character that should vote too. Maybe 1 month. It won't entirely solve election manipulation but it'll help.
But the bigger issue is that 0.0 alliance blocs will always find it easier to pressgang their members into voting than the vast unwashed hoards of highsec. And in a system where minority actually vote you get fringe mentalist candidates dominating the story.
I think CCP need to take a leaf from Australia's voting system and make voting mandatory for every eve player who is on a full account and has existed for one month. During the voting period you get a pop up on the launcher that prompts you to cast a vote. CCP already has the ability to randomize the order of candidates on the voting page - so no alphabetic favouritism and let the candidates stand on their message. (abstain should be an option of course)
In exchange for the inconvenience a six pack of quafe zero arrives in the hanger of the person who just voted.
Everyone wins, democracy triumphs - no more CSM chairs with complete dominance of the council voted by a tiny fraction of the player base.
Here's how it will go down:
Player: What the hell is this ****? Since I just want to play, and I don't really care about this ****, I'm picking this one because of :boobs: in the portrait. Or the one with green lipstick and yellow eye shadow because :lol:.
In the end you have a CSM that isn't vetted by the players interested enough in having a stake in the CSM. Mandatory voting blows. Sorry Australia.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4623
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:11:00 -
[118] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Everyone wins, democracy triumphs - no more CSM chairs with complete dominance of the council voted by a tiny fraction of the player base. More likely, it will be a complete dominance of the council voted by the same tiny fraction, now bumped higher by the random noise added by people who still don't care about their vote and who will just put their name down for whomever. vOv GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1218
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:17:00 -
[119] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Everyone wins, democracy triumphs - no more CSM chairs with complete dominance of the council voted by a tiny fraction of the player base. More likely, it will be a complete dominance of the council voted by the same tiny fraction, now bumped higher by the random noise added by people who still don't care about their vote and who will just put their name down for whomever. vOv
Well if that still happens then at least the players can''t complain they are being robbed by 0.0 voting blocs any longer can they?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4623
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:20:00 -
[120] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Well if that still happens then at least the players can''t complain they are being robbed by 0.0 voting blocs any longer can they? WellGǪ they can (and probably will), but yes, it would take the edge off of that already largely pointless argument.
Mandatory voting just artificially increases the participation number GÇö it does very little for actual engagement. Probably even less so if it's done as an interruption of what's supposed to be an entertaining activity. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
|
Zowie Powers
Hole in the wall
45
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:27:00 -
[121] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Zowie Powers wrote:rodyas wrote:Yeah there is alot to lose by abstaining, no icelands like ya said, as well as no talking to devs and CEO about issues and such.
Almost a catch 22 really, if you dont want to talk to devs and such why play the game at all? If you abstained from election it would almost like cancelling account or close to it. No reason to talk to the people who make the game, doesnt sound like you enjoy it either. We had more direct influence before the CSM ever existed. Threadnoughts do work, have worked and will always work. CSM does not. The best part about relying on threadnoughts to be better then the CSM is that the US supreme court ruled that threadnoughts are people too just in time for this election. What is better then a threadnought on this forum, is a threadnought that has a free flight to iceland to talk to the devs.
A threadnought conducted in public that doesn't supply heads up information to selected customers, best threadnought. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:50:00 -
[122] - Quote
The issue isn't so much whether there is rigging or not, but that the CSM is predominantly (if not completely) occupied by those whose interests lie with the nullsec sov-holding powerblocs.
As a result, proposals pushed through to CCP by the CSM are more likely to make those groups the primary (or only) beneficiaries of the changes, and often at the expense of everyone else - simply because the ones who are impacted negatively by these changes don't have a voice on the CSM and can't speak out against it.
And sure, putting on a good and effective campaign is part of it, but a single voice on the CSM isn't enough to take care of the interests of the people who live in highsec or lowsec. Personally, (if you'll pardon the reference to US politics and government) I'd rather see CCP arranging the CSM to work a little more like the Senate/HoR, where a given area of the game's populace is guaranteed some sort of representation that actually represents them. Highsec dwellers would have people representing them. Lowsec - both FW and pirate - would have theirs. Nullsec would still have their reps as always, and w-space would even have a few.
The only change for the nullsec blocs is that they would have to fight harder among themselves for a reduced number of seats. Not something I'd hate to see. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4623
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:54:00 -
[123] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:The issue isn't so much whether there is rigging or not, but that the CSM is predominantly (if not completely) occupied by those whose interests lie with the nullsec sov-holding powerblocs.
As a result, proposals pushed through to CCP by the CSM are more likely to make those groups the primary (or only) beneficiaries of the changes, and often at the expense of everyone else - simply because the ones who are impacted negatively by these changes don't have a voice on the CSM and can't speak out against it. GǪbut has it actually happened? Is there an actual issue, or is it just people being presumptive about what the CSM discusses and what ideas they promote?
Looking at this last CSM, some representatives sure were vocal about ideas that would have a wide range of negative effects on nullsec, for instance. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
239
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:57:00 -
[124] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:The issue isn't so much whether there is rigging or not, but that the CSM is predominantly (if not completely) occupied by those whose interests lie with the nullsec sov-holding powerblocs.
As a result, proposals pushed through to CCP by the CSM are more likely to make those groups the primary (or only) beneficiaries of the changes, and often at the expense of everyone else - simply because the ones who are impacted negatively by these changes don't have a voice on the CSM and can't speak out against it.
And sure, putting on a good and effective campaign is part of it, but a single voice on the CSM isn't enough to take care of the interests of the people who live in highsec or lowsec. Personally, (if you'll pardon the reference to US politics and government) I'd rather see CCP arranging the CSM to work a little more like the Senate/HoR, where a given area of the game's populace is guaranteed some sort of representation that actually represents them. Highsec dwellers would have people representing them. Lowsec - both FW and pirate - would have theirs. Nullsec would still have their reps as always, and w-space would even have a few.
The only change for the nullsec blocs is that they would have to fight harder among themselves for a reduced number of seats. Not something I'd hate to see.
And how would you implement that? What makes someone a 'highsec player' vs a nullsec player? Where they are at election time? Where they lived the last year? What about alts? What about people who live in all four areas of space?
Quote:
As a result, proposals pushed through to CCP by the CSM are more likely to make those groups the primary (or only) beneficiaries of the changes, and often at the expense of everyone else - simply because the ones who are impacted negatively by these changes don't have a voice on the CSM and can't speak out against it.
The flip side of the coin is that the group of people who got organized enough to win the election get to see their desired results. That's how democracy works, you just don't like it because you're on the losing side.
This entire argument is analogous to a situation where the Democrat party (or vice versa) did not exist and in their place you had a large body of people whining about how the Republicans won the elections every time. Now just imagine if the Republicans base was only ~30% of the country and you can see how funny this gets. |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 19:21:00 -
[125] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote: fine keep posting, you will just be ignored.
This thread should have been closed when the OP conceded. |
lilol' me
Comply Or Die
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 19:43:00 -
[126] - Quote
Zowie Powers wrote:rodyas wrote:Zowie Powers wrote:rodyas wrote:Yeah there is alot to lose by abstaining, no icelands like ya said, as well as no talking to devs and CEO about issues and such.
Almost a catch 22 really, if you dont want to talk to devs and such why play the game at all? If you abstained from election it would almost like cancelling account or close to it. No reason to talk to the people who make the game, doesnt sound like you enjoy it either. We had more direct influence before the CSM ever existed. Threadnoughts do work, have worked and will always work. CSM does not. The best part about relying on threadnoughts to be better then the CSM is that the US supreme court ruled that threadnoughts are people too just in time for this election. What is better then a threadnought on this forum, is a threadnought that has a free flight to iceland to talk to the devs. A threadnought conducted in public that doesn't supply heads up information to selected customers, best threadnought.
But but you posted and offered nothing yourself...troll much
|
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
229
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 20:44:00 -
[127] - Quote
The public is over rated. I dont even know what the public is in EVE. Would the log in screen be most public, sometimes I think, maybe general discussion is most public. Think the jita park sub section is suppose to be public.
Suppose the real definition of public is whatever the devs dont lock.
Still think flying threadnought deserves more attention and not to be quickly dismissed. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
431
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 21:47:00 -
[128] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Looking at this last CSM, some representatives sure were vocal about ideas that would have a wide range of negative effects on nullsec, for instance.
Not for them. For their competition and opponents, sure. But not for them. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
42
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 22:19:00 -
[129] - Quote
Feligast wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:The Mittani, AKA Numismancer on Something Awful, is not the "head cheese". He is not even a moderator. He is just a random guy with a registered username who happens to play EVE. By contrast, Weaselior and VIle Rat, a couple of important people in GoonWaffe, are moderators on Something Awful. By your logic shouldn't they be the CEO of GoonWaffe, or the guy giving huge speeches at the State of the Goonion, or the ones that everyone hates on the CSM? Vile Rat is on the CSM, and I think at least most people hate him.
I think there is no question that the leadership of the Goons and the leadership of SomethingAwful.com are inextricably intertwined and are over-represented on the CSM. It is also obvious that they have the ability via their coordinated numbers to affect the game in many ways (mostly negative, unfortunately). While the CSM representation is clearly an issue, I think that the general player population would think that the economic imbalance between highsec and zero is a much more pressing issue.
Once you realize that groups such as the Goons and certain other "easterlings" are engaged in "botting" and "RMT" to the point that it is practically impossible for new forces in highsec to challenge existing sovereignty boundaries in zero, you can pretty much just unsubscribe, unless you want to just putter around in the market side of the game as many do.
It really is a sad state of affairs in Eve that we have come to. I'm guessing that the real reason we are here is because CCP has given up on trying to thwart botting and RMT and simply surrendered to the idea that they can make as much profit running a game that is dominated by camps of botters and RMT webforces all competing over saleable digital resources that can be captured in the game. Unfortunately, this is not a very attractive scenario for the recruitment of new subscribers. |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
242
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 22:26:00 -
[130] - Quote
Comrade Commizzar wrote:Feligast wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:The Mittani, AKA Numismancer on Something Awful, is not the "head cheese". He is not even a moderator. He is just a random guy with a registered username who happens to play EVE. By contrast, Weaselior and VIle Rat, a couple of important people in GoonWaffe, are moderators on Something Awful. By your logic shouldn't they be the CEO of GoonWaffe, or the guy giving huge speeches at the State of the Goonion, or the ones that everyone hates on the CSM? Vile Rat is on the CSM, and I think at least most people hate him. Once you realize that groups such as the Goons and certain other "easterlings" are engaged in "botting" and "RMT" to the point that it is practically impossible for new forces in highsec to challenge existing sovereignty boundaries in zero, you can pretty much just unsubscribe, unless you want to just putter around in the market side of the game as many do.
[citation needed] |
|
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
543
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 22:29:00 -
[131] - Quote
What we need is someone as thorough as T'amber was with releasing minutes. |
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
43
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 22:35:00 -
[132] - Quote
Zirse wrote:Comrade Commizzar wrote:Feligast wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:The Mittani, AKA Numismancer on Something Awful, is not the "head cheese". He is not even a moderator. He is just a random guy with a registered username who happens to play EVE. By contrast, Weaselior and VIle Rat, a couple of important people in GoonWaffe, are moderators on Something Awful. By your logic shouldn't they be the CEO of GoonWaffe, or the guy giving huge speeches at the State of the Goonion, or the ones that everyone hates on the CSM? Vile Rat is on the CSM, and I think at least most people hate him. Once you realize that groups such as the Goons and certain other "easterlings" are engaged in "botting" and "RMT" to the point that it is practically impossible for new forces in highsec to challenge existing sovereignty boundaries in zero, you can pretty much just unsubscribe, unless you want to just putter around in the market side of the game as many do. [citation needed]
Is water wet? Is the earth round? Do you need a citation for these things as well? Are you really this dense and slow, or do you have an agenda to cloud the issue? |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
BRAPELILLE MACRO BOT MINERS
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 22:54:00 -
[133] - Quote
CCP should make a new rule such as if 'none of the above' gets enough votes then 1 CSM position remains empty. That would totally ruin someone's day Every EVE player must read this http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=29-01-07 or uninstall and DIAF |
foxnod
BOAE INC GIANTSBANE.
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 23:16:00 -
[134] - Quote
Nisha Valone wrote:Oppinion
Though I haven't actually taken part in any of the previous CSM elections, I highly doubt there is any rigging involved. If the goal of the CSM is to have players have a vote in the direction the game development takes with the aim of improving it and making it more appealing to its player base then rigging it would defy its very purpose.
If people like The Mittani have an easy, but not guaranteed, spot on the council it's because a vote for him is more appealing than a vote for the other candidates. This can be the case because he can draw more on internal resources such as the members of his corporation/alliance, because his ideas are more in tune with the EVE community or simply because he is better at public relations than the other candidates but that's one of the core principles of a western democratic system to begin with.
And while it is true that people with more accounts can have more votes, they also make out a larger portion of the player base either because they spend more time at EVE or because they pay more at their monthly subscriptions. Essentially this makes the election somewhat of an oligarchy, rather than a democracy but who is to say that people with a lesser impact on EVE should have an equal amount of influence in elections.
Proposal
This doesn't take away the fact that a player who is more familiar with 0.0 is more suitable to represent the best interests of 0.0 while a high sec player would be better aware of high sec issues.
Instead of changing the way the votes are being cast it would be more to the point if the CSM, with its pre-determined number of spots, would be divided between those elected for the improvement of high sec and those elected for the improvement of 0.0/low sec, the division based upon a measurable variable such as system traffic.
For example if there are 10 seats on the council and 60% of the player traffic goes through high sec systems and 40% goes through 0.0 or low sec then there would be 6 members on the council representing the interests of high sec and 4 members representing the interests of 0.0 or low sec.
High sec CSM members would discuss matters of high sec, 0.0/low sec CSM members would do the same for low sec. Issues that involve the entirety of the game would be discussed by all CSM members simultaneously. Eventually the conclusions that need to be drawn from the results of these discussions should remain with CCP, deciding on wether to follow the advice, put it in a poll to the community or dismiss it altogether.
Just an idea.
e: cleaning up wall of text
If a system like that was implemented, us nullseccers will just use our alts to put highsec candidates we like in. Besides who's to say that highseccers aren't voting for nullsec candidates. I did when I was in highsec.
Basically what it boils down to is the carebears have been deluding themselves for years at thinking they're the majority of the playerbase. The CSM votes have been showing that they're not quite the overwhelming majority they think they are. |
Xanatia
Mindelan Heavy Industry
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 23:21:00 -
[135] - Quote
Whenever there is a parliamentary election i can vote in, i vote. i do it because i want the party whose goals i agree with to get into power. sometimes my party gets in, sometimes they don't.
I laugh at people who don't vote, and then whine that 'their' party, or 'their' candidate didn't get elected. if you don't vote then you have absolutely no right whatsoever to complain. lets face it, the majority in the game don't vote in the CSM elections, and yet the majority always seem to compain that their views aren't represnted, and the views of the people whose representative did get elected are.
so, if you want to beat goons, and ll the other nullsec badboys, who make up a minority of the playerbase, get out there and do something about it rather than moaning. if you can motivate even a few % of the people to vote for you, you will get onto the CSM.
then again, not many people actually care... |
foxnod
BOAE INC GIANTSBANE.
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 23:22:00 -
[136] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Well I think I'm living proof its possible for an independent from a small corp/alliance to win the CSM elections. I was the first chair of the CSM defeating Darius Johnson of Goonswarm and Hardin of the CVA who both had huge alliance blocs behind them simply by running a high profile campaign and doing a lot of hard work on the campaign trail (and having an excellent team behind me).
So it is possible.
But that said, I do think its got harder for independent candidates recently to compete with the alliance blocs and there has been some evidence of "rigging" (4 hour trial accounts etc) I guess "exploiting weaknesses in the voting system" might be closer to the mark since what Goonswarm did last time is the virtual equivilence of lorry driving in homeless people from another state and registering them to vote for a particular candidate in exchange for a bottle of hooch to play havoc with the ordinary voting demographics.
This is pretty easy to fix. Trial accounts don't get a vote. I'd be inclined to say that there should be a minimum age of character that should vote too. Maybe 1 month. It won't entirely solve election manipulation but it'll help.
But the bigger issue is that 0.0 alliance blocs will always find it easier to pressgang their members into voting than the vast unwashed hoards of highsec. And in a system where minority actually vote you get fringe mentalist candidates dominating the story.
I think CCP need to take a leaf from Australia's voting system and make voting mandatory for every eve player who is on a full account and has existed for one month. During the voting period you get a pop up on the launcher that prompts you to cast a vote. CCP already has the ability to randomize the order of candidates on the voting page - so no alphabetic favouritism and let the candidates stand on their message. (abstain should be an option of course)
In exchange for the inconvenience a six pack of quafe zero arrives in the hanger of the person who just voted.
Everyone wins, democracy triumphs - no more CSM chairs with complete dominance of the council voted by a tiny fraction of the player base.
The last people that should vote are those that won't vote unless forced to. By their very nature, they neither know nor care enough to make an informed decision. CCP puts out CSM adds for a month before the election and makes it ridiculously easy to go see the candidates campaign sites. If someone doesn't vote now when it's as easy as it is, then I see no reason to force them. |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
242
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 23:32:00 -
[137] - Quote
Comrade Commizzar wrote:Zirse wrote:Comrade Commizzar wrote:Feligast wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:The Mittani, AKA Numismancer on Something Awful, is not the "head cheese". He is not even a moderator. He is just a random guy with a registered username who happens to play EVE. By contrast, Weaselior and VIle Rat, a couple of important people in GoonWaffe, are moderators on Something Awful. By your logic shouldn't they be the CEO of GoonWaffe, or the guy giving huge speeches at the State of the Goonion, or the ones that everyone hates on the CSM? Vile Rat is on the CSM, and I think at least most people hate him. Once you realize that groups such as the Goons and certain other "easterlings" are engaged in "botting" and "RMT" to the point that it is practically impossible for new forces in highsec to challenge existing sovereignty boundaries in zero, you can pretty much just unsubscribe, unless you want to just putter around in the market side of the game as many do. [citation needed] Is water wet? Is the earth round? Do you need a citation for these things as well? Are you really this dense and slow, or do you have an agenda to cloud the issue?
[citation still needed] |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
108
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 23:34:00 -
[138] - Quote
Just to clear this up: At what point does holding players assets hostage to force them to vote on your behalf, not involve rigging the votes? TIIP: The Incredible Invisible Poster |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
434
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 00:02:00 -
[139] - Quote
Comrade Commizzar wrote wrote:stuff... Do we need to prove that water is wet?
Zirse wrote:citation still needed
By the definition of "wet", water is a factor in becoming wet, but is not wet itself, because when you are wet, you are "covered or soaked with a liquid such as water", and water is water itself, therefore it is not wet. You are wet when you get out of water and air mixes with it, then yes you are wet.
******* noobs, thinking water is wet LOL.
I think I just proved that people like Zirse can make any mindless piece of stupidity look like an intelligent debate. Thx Zirse, for helping make that point so definitively! We could not have done it without you! Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Xanatia
Mindelan Heavy Industry
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 00:09:00 -
[140] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Comrade Commizzar wrote wrote:stuff... Do we need to prove that water is wet? Zirse wrote:citation still needed By the definition of "wet", water is a factor in becoming wet, but is not wet itself, because when you are wet, you are "covered or soaked with a liquid such as water", and water is water itself, therefore it is not wet. You are wet when you get out of water and air mixes with it, then yes you are wet. ******* noobs, thinking water is wet LOL. I think I just proved that people like Zirse can make any mindless piece of stupidity look like an intelligent debate. Thx Zirse, for helping make that point so definitively. We could not have done it without you!
From the online dictionary....
Wet:
adjective 1. moistened, covered, or soaked with water or some other liquid: wet hands. 2. in a liquid form or state: wet paint. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
434
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 00:11:00 -
[141] - Quote
No...
I'm pretty sure wet is a word to describe something that isn't usually wet. Like burnt. If you're calling it burnt then I think you are implying that it is not in it's natural state. A rock in it's natural state is hard and sometimes course. When it's not it may be wet, cut, smoothed... get it?
By the look of things, some dictionaries define liquids as being wet, whilst some others do not. Water is NOT wet, it is a WETTING AGENT. Taken straight out of my cousins high school textbook dated 2006 publishing year.
Quote:
moistened, covered, or soaked with water or some other liquid.
- This states that "wet" is a feeling that needs to involve two or more physical matters, therefore water cannot be wet on its own unless accompanied by another object; such as a hand. So your two definitions are actually contradicting one another.
(sarcasm on to prove point) Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Bloutok
Murientor Tribe
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 00:20:00 -
[142] - Quote
The bottom line is money. CSM/CCP. Who cares.
If you do not like it, cancel your subscription, If the greater part of the player base cancel accounts, they will listen.
Are the CSM a biased waste of time for most players? I think so. But this game is elitist to a maximum, let them have fun. Just remember it's your money CCP wants, so only look at what CCP does, not the CSMs.
For the first time since i started playing, CCP made a survey that i filled, i do not remember when, i think it was when i got on after a patch or something like that. If CCP really wants to know what the people want, they can do more of that. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
434
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 00:21:00 -
[143] - Quote
Bloutok wrote:The bottom line is money. CSM/CCP. Who cares.
If you do not like it, cancel your subscription, If the greater part of the player base cancel accounts, they will listen.
Are the CSM a biased waste of time for most players? I think so. But this game is elitist to a maximum, let them have fun. Just remember it's your money CCP wants, so only look at what CCP does, not the CSMs.
For the first time since i started playing, CCP made a survey that i filled, i do not remember when, i think it was when i got on after a patch or something like that. If CCP really wants to know what the people want, they can do more of that.
QFT
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Xanatia
Mindelan Heavy Industry
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 00:32:00 -
[144] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:No... I'm pretty sure wet is a word to describe something that isn't usually wet. Like burnt. If you're calling it burnt then I think you are implying that it is not in it's natural state. A rock in it's natural state is hard and sometimes course. When it's not it may be wet, cut, smoothed... get it? By the look of things, some dictionaries define liquids as being wet, whilst some others do not. Water is NOT wet, it is a WETTING AGENT. Taken straight out of my cousins high school textbook dated 2006 publishing year. Quote: However, in the other definition:
1. moistened, covered, or soaked with water or some other liquid.
- This states that "wet" is a feeling that need to involve two or more physical matters, therefore water cannot be wet on its own unless accompanied by another object; such as a hand. (sarcasm on to prove point)
i too just looked in a dictionary, websters to be exact since you were kind enough to quote a high school text book, i can also provide a USBN number and a pge reference if you would like...
wet = "consisting of, containing, covered with, or soaked with liquid"
By definition water is wet because it consists of and contains liquid. (unless you are speaking of a sample of less than 6 molecules, in which case it is NOT a liquid, or when it is frozen, but then its ice, not water, although you could argue that ice is in fact just frozen water..)
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
434
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 00:40:00 -
[145] - Quote
Anything that is wet can be dried. You can dry a wet towel. You can dry a wet floor. You can't dry water, therefor it isn't wet. The definition of wet taken from dictionary.com is wet: moistened, covered, or soaked with water or some other liquid. You can't do that with water because it's already a liquid.
Wet is a result of water touching it. Water in and of itself is not wet it may be soft and pliable but not wet. If water gets on my shirt then water wets my shirt. I dont have wet on my shirt. Wetness is a result not a description of water.
(Sarcasm still fully on) Tonight I am pretending that I am Tippa Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Xanatia
Mindelan Heavy Industry
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 00:49:00 -
[146] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Anything that is wet can be dried. You can dry a wet towel. You can dry a wet floor. You can't dry water, therefor it isn't wet. The definition of wet taken from dictionary.com is wet: moistened, covered, or soaked with water or some other liquid. You can't do that with water because it's already a liquid.
Wet is a result of water touching it. Water in and of itself is not wet it may be soft and pliable but not wet. If water gets on my shirt then water wets my shirt. I dont have wet on my shirt. Wetness is a result not a description of water.
(Sarcasm still fully on)
I suppose it all comes down to how good you are at grammar, and your understanding of the differences between an adjective, a verb, and a noun.
but. also from the online dictionary:
wet: adjective
2. in a liquid form or state:
so, is water a liquid? or is it not? |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3021
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 00:53:00 -
[147] - Quote
I have to aggree closest thing to an high sec representative for eve that would ever exist is an industrialist.
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Bloutok
Murientor Tribe
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 00:53:00 -
[148] - Quote
If oil is touching Water, are both of them wet ? |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 00:58:00 -
[149] - Quote
Xanatia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Anything that is wet can be dried. You can dry a wet towel. You can dry a wet floor. You can't dry water, therefor it isn't wet. The definition of wet taken from dictionary.com is wet: moistened, covered, or soaked with water or some other liquid. You can't do that with water because it's already a liquid.
Wet is a result of water touching it. Water in and of itself is not wet it may be soft and pliable but not wet. If water gets on my shirt then water wets my shirt. I dont have wet on my shirt. Wetness is a result not a description of water.
(Sarcasm still fully on) I suppose it all comes down to how good you are at grammar, and your understanding of the differences between an adjective, a verb, and a noun. but. also from the online dictionary: wet: adjective 2. in a liquid form or state: so, is water a liquid? or is it not?
But is a liquid actually wet on it's own? Or does it require another object in order to become essentially "wet"? Remember not all dictionaries define wet in the same manner. So there is room for interpretation.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Bloutok
Murientor Tribe
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 01:03:00 -
[150] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Xanatia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Anything that is wet can be dried. You can dry a wet towel. You can dry a wet floor. You can't dry water, therefor it isn't wet. The definition of wet taken from dictionary.com is wet: moistened, covered, or soaked with water or some other liquid. You can't do that with water because it's already a liquid.
Wet is a result of water touching it. Water in and of itself is not wet it may be soft and pliable but not wet. If water gets on my shirt then water wets my shirt. I dont have wet on my shirt. Wetness is a result not a description of water.
(Sarcasm still fully on) I suppose it all comes down to how good you are at grammar, and your understanding of the differences between an adjective, a verb, and a noun. but. also from the online dictionary: wet: adjective 2. in a liquid form or state: so, is water a liquid? or is it not? But is a liquid actually wet on it's own? Or does it require another object in order to become essentially "wet"? Remember not all dictionaries define wet in the same manner. So there is room for interpretation.
1 full can of liquid.
Half of it is in contact with the other half thus making it all wet. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 01:10:00 -
[151] - Quote
Bloutok wrote:
1 full can of liquid.
Half of it is in contact with the other half thus making it all wet.
But to who?
Welcome to the EVE Online forums, a place where stupid people come to debate ridiculous **** and pretend to be smart. P.S. still pretending to be Tippa. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
43
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 02:40:00 -
[152] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Anything that is wet can be dried. You can dry a wet towel. You can dry a wet floor. You can't dry water, therefor it isn't wet. The definition of wet taken from dictionary.com is wet: moistened, covered, or soaked with water or some other liquid. You can't do that with water because it's already a liquid. Wet is a result of water touching it. Water in and of itself is not wet it may be soft and pliable but not wet. If water gets on my shirt then water wets my shirt. I dont have wet on my shirt. Wetness is a result not a description of water. (Sarcasm still fully on)Tonight I am pretending that I am Tippa
Don't worry about them Eternum. At least I see what you did there. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8232
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 02:58:00 -
[153] - Quote
Just coming in to post that water is the name for dihydrogen monoxide, regardless of whether it is in a liquid state; so, yes, you can have non-liquid water and thereby water that is not wet or which does not contribute to things it touches being wet. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1315
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 03:31:00 -
[154] - Quote
Comrade Commizzar wrote:Zirse wrote:Comrade Commizzar wrote:Feligast wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:The Mittani, AKA Numismancer on Something Awful, is not the "head cheese". He is not even a moderator. He is just a random guy with a registered username who happens to play EVE. By contrast, Weaselior and VIle Rat, a couple of important people in GoonWaffe, are moderators on Something Awful. By your logic shouldn't they be the CEO of GoonWaffe, or the guy giving huge speeches at the State of the Goonion, or the ones that everyone hates on the CSM? Vile Rat is on the CSM, and I think at least most people hate him. Once you realize that groups such as the Goons and certain other "easterlings" are engaged in "botting" and "RMT" to the point that it is practically impossible for new forces in highsec to challenge existing sovereignty boundaries in zero, you can pretty much just unsubscribe, unless you want to just putter around in the market side of the game as many do. [citation needed] Is water wet? Is the earth round? Do you need a citation for these things as well? Are you really this dense and slow, or do you have an agenda to cloud the issue?
I don't need citations for those now because I've been shown citations for those facts many times before.
You claim there are bots and RMTers and that you have specific knowledge of those bots and RMTers. When you make that claim, I can't help but ask two questions: 1) Why have you not reported them? 2) What evidence do you have to support these claims.
As to your examples of self evident facts:
Water is wet because of the definition of "wet," so it's a tautology, not an argument to say that water is wet.
The earth was proven to be round in Ancient Greece (couple hundred years BC) but while the discovery is attributed to Pythagoras, there's no specific historical evidence to support that fact, and without that I shall not claim that he discovered it (even though there's a cool story that accompanies it). Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 03:51:00 -
[155] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Anything that is wet can be dried. You can dry a wet towel. You can dry a wet floor. You can't dry water, therefor it isn't wet. The definition of wet taken from dictionary.com is wet: moistened, covered, or soaked with water or some other liquid. You can't do that with water because it's already a liquid. Wet is a result of water touching it. Water in and of itself is not wet it may be soft and pliable but not wet. If water gets on my shirt then water wets my shirt. I dont have wet on my shirt. Wetness is a result not a description of water. (Sarcasm still fully on)Tonight I am pretending that I am Tippa
So you are masquerading as what you see as being "Tippia" in this thread now because you've been wiped up and down this thread for your own stupidity?
Butthurt much?
Maybe find a seat with a bit more padding on it... I'm sure that will make your newly ripped ******* a bit more comfy. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 03:57:00 -
[156] - Quote
Awww, poor Selinate you seem so angry. Alternatively, I think I made my point loud and clear. If there is any butthurt to be had it is coming from you as you superimpose it upon others. Poor, poor butthurt Selinate. If you talk about it you might feel better? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:00:00 -
[157] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Awww, poor Selinate you seem so angry. Alternatively, I think I made my point loud and clear. If there is any butthurt to be had it is coming from you as you superimpose it upon others. Poor, poor butthurt Selinate. If you talk about it you might feel better?
Yep, I guess I'm right, you're pretty darn butthurt. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:03:00 -
[158] - Quote
Here Selinate, this will help Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:05:00 -
[159] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:A red legion guy posting.
I was going to respond to your post with something well thought out and intelligent, but then I realized that you belonged to red legion. So instead I will give you this...
BwhahahahahahaTrolololololololo!!!!!!111111111111 Look at the red legion guy talking about bots and RMT!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!! Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:09:00 -
[160] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Lol, yes, it will help you because you are butthurt.
You try to parade around in a thread acting like you're actually intelligent, then when someone shows you you're not, you passive aggressively pretend you're that person, just like a teenager who just got told off by... well... someone who's actually intelligent compared to you.
Keep on being butthurt. |
|
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:10:00 -
[161] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:A red legion guy posting. I was going to respond to your post with something well thought out and intelligent, but then I realized that I can't come up with anything even remotely intelligent. So instead I will give you this... BwhahahahahahaTrolololololololo!!!!!!111111111111 Look at the red legion guy talking about bots and RMT!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
Definitely still butthurt. FYP
They say ignorance is bliss, I'm starting to wonder if this applies to your stupidity also. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:10:00 -
[162] - Quote
Dude are you like 13 LOL
I never thought that someone would take water being wet so personally. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1315
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:12:00 -
[163] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:A red legion guy posting. I was going to respond to your post with something well thought out and intelligent, but then I realized that you belonged to red legion. So instead I will give you this... BwhahahahahahaTrolololololololo!!!!!!111111111111 Look at the red legion guy talking about bots and RMT!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
In no alliance that I have been in have I seen clear, articulable evidence of botting. I've seen no evidence of RMT.
I have heard from people in my alliance who will (with permission) gank the fuck out of suspected friendly bots. I have also seen that permission granted, and the resultant killmails.
Now if you don't want to believe me due to some preconceived notion of the company I choose to keep, that's up to you. But if we're going to have a debate, avoiding my arguments and focusing on that company is not constructive (nor is it productive to furthering your argument). Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:12:00 -
[164] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Dude are you like 13 LOL
Yeah yeah, standard attempts at flaming because you can't actually come up with a clever way of doing it.
*yawn* |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:14:00 -
[165] - Quote
RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible.
@Selinate
Oh yea Mr. Poopy pants? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:16:00 -
[166] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible.
I can't even fix this post because I'm not sure what direction you were trying to take it in, given what you were trying to respond to...
Maybe you should just quit while you're... well.... very far behind? |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1315
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:20:00 -
[167] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible.
I have yet to see a sign or other indication that it is my duty as a player to test my allies for evidence of botting.
Again, you're skipping my questions: If you have seen specific evidence of botting: 1) Why have you not reported it? 2) What specific evidence do you have?*
N.B. * "Everyone knows X" is not specific evidence. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:23:00 -
[168] - Quote
Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible. I can't even fix this post because I'm not sure what direction you were trying to take it in, given what you were trying to respond to... Maybe you should just quit while you're... well.... very far behind?
Doesn't matter since it was not directed towards you. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:23:00 -
[169] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote: @Selinate
Oh yea Mr. Poopy pants?
You know, when some people try and flame me on these forums, I can at least get a good laugh out of it because they are intelligent, witty people.
This doesn't apply to you. You are, by far, the least witty troll I've seen on these forums. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:24:00 -
[170] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible.
I have yet to see a sign or other indication that it is my duty as a player to test my allies for evidence of botting. Again, you're skipping my questions: If you have seen specific evidence of botting: 1) Why have you not reported it? 2) What specific evidence do you have?* N.B. * "Everyone knows X" is not specific evidence.
Meaning that if you have not seen said things for yourself by now, then you must be living under a rock out there. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1315
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:24:00 -
[171] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible. I can't even fix this post because I'm not sure what direction you were trying to take it in, given what you were trying to respond to... Maybe you should just quit while you're... well.... very far behind? Doesn't matter since it was not directed towards you.
Open forum. Everyone can respond to the "arguments" anyone else makes.
That's the beauty of it. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:24:00 -
[172] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible. I can't even fix this post because I'm not sure what direction you were trying to take it in, given what you were trying to respond to... Maybe you should just quit while you're... well.... very far behind? Doesn't matter since it was not directed towards you.
What doesn't matter? The fact that you should quit while you're very far behind? Or the fact that I couldn't fix your post?
Is there some rule about fixing rather stupid posts if they're not directed towards you that I don't know about?
I can't be sure...... |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1315
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:26:00 -
[173] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Meaning that if you have not seen said things for yourself by now, then you must be living under a rock out there.
So, you have seen the evidence you claim that I turn a blind eye to? 1) Why have you not reported that evidence? 2) What specific evidence have you found? 3) What evidence do you have to show that I have seen or should have seen the evidence from 1) and 2).
You keep adding claims without backing them up with any EVIDENCE Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:27:00 -
[174] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible.
I have yet to see a sign or other indication that it is my duty as a player to test my allies for evidence of botting. Again, you're skipping my questions: If you have seen specific evidence of botting: 1) Why have you not reported it? 2) What specific evidence do you have?* N.B. * "Everyone knows X" is not specific evidence. Meaning that if you have not seen said things for yourself by now, then you must be living under a rock out there.
You mean.... *GASP*
He didn't explore all of the systems owned by DRF just so he could make sure that none of his alliance mates or allies in general weren't botting! How shameful of him! All of his arguments must be invalid for this sake alone!
I mean really, how many systems does DRF have anyway.... ohhhhhhhh
You're up **** creek with a ****** argument, dude. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:31:00 -
[175] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible. I can't even fix this post because I'm not sure what direction you were trying to take it in, given what you were trying to respond to... Maybe you should just quit while you're... well.... very far behind? Doesn't matter since it was not directed towards you. Open forum. Everyone can respond to the "arguments" anyone else makes. That's the beauty of it.
Ruby, I have obviously made him angry. I enjoy his nerdy forum rage and half baked stabs at me. Forum troll tears are the very best tears of them all. To you I can only say that you live in the very heart of RMT/ Botting central. I don't feel like debating this with you, because your stance is one that requires everyone else to believe that what people are saying about drone space is completely unwarranted and baseless hearsay. We simply know better, and if you don't that is fine. Have fun out there.
But, your taking a stance that directly contradicts the observations of many others. So... believe what you want. This is a thread about CSM corruption and water not being wet from what I recall. Why don't you go and make a "drone regions have no RMT and no Botters thread" and see what kind of response it gets.
I sure as hell don't have to debate it with you. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:35:00 -
[176] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible. I can't even fix this post because I'm not sure what direction you were trying to take it in, given what you were trying to respond to... Maybe you should just quit while you're... well.... very far behind? Doesn't matter since it was not directed towards you. Open forum. Everyone can respond to the "arguments" anyone else makes. That's the beauty of it. Ruby, I have obviously made him angry. I enjoy his nerdy forum rage and half baked stabs at me. Forum troll tears are the very best tears of them all. To you I can only say that you live in the very heart of RMT/ Botting central. I don't feel like debating this with you, because your stance is one that requires everyone else to believe that what people are saying about drone space is completely unwarranted and baseless hearsay. We simply know better, and if you don't that is fine. Have fun out there. But, your taking a stance that directly contradicts the observations of many others. So... believe what you want. This is a thread about CSM corruption and water not being wet from what I recall. Why don't you make a "drone regions have no RMT and no Botters thread" and see what kind of response it gets. I sure as hell don't have to debate it with you.
Still up **** creek with a ****** argument, I see.
Still butthurt also. "Drone space is bot central because everyone knows this".
Apparently stupidity is bliss. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:39:00 -
[177] - Quote
Proud to make an impression on you, Selinate. Tears and weak troll posts from your like, makes it worth posting here. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1315
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:40:00 -
[178] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible. I can't even fix this post because I'm not sure what direction you were trying to take it in, given what you were trying to respond to... Maybe you should just quit while you're... well.... very far behind? Doesn't matter since it was not directed towards you. Open forum. Everyone can respond to the "arguments" anyone else makes. That's the beauty of it. Ruby, I have obviously made him angry. I enjoy his nerdy forum rage and half baked stabs at me. Forum troll tears are the very best tears of them all. To you I can only say that you live in the very heart of RMT/ Botting central. I don't feel like debating this with you, because your stance is one that requires everyone else to believe that what people are saying about drone space is completely unwarranted and baseless hearsay. We simply know better, and if you don't that is fine. Have fun out there. But, your taking a stance that directly contradicts the observations of many others. So... believe what you want. This is a thread about CSM corruption and water not being wet from what I recall. Why don't you go and make a "drone regions have no RMT and no Botters thread" and see what kind of response it gets. I sure as hell don't have to debate it with you.
You don't have to, but you are. Since you're ... uh... posting here... uh ... on the forums where... uh... debate happens.
The reason why the courts have consistently rejected hearsay evidence is because of the rapidity that information gets distorted, altered, muddled, etc (without need for any conscious malice). Ever play the phone game? Everyone whispers to the next person and what comes out after 10-15 people is barely recognizable as what went in. That's why hearsay evidence is worthless.
If you can quote someone who has direct knowledge of botting and/or RMT, that would be Evidence. "We simply know better" isn't even hearsay, it's fluff.
So, please link, quote, list, etc a tiny shred of Evidence to prop up your argument. So far the only evidence in this thread is my testimony. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:42:00 -
[179] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Proud to make an impression on you, Selinate. Tears from weak trolls like you makes it worth posting here.
Getting even less witty. Not even trying any more. |
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:43:00 -
[180] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
You don't have to, but you are. Since you're ... uh... posting here... uh ... on the forums where... uh... debate happens.
The reason why the courts have consistently rejected hearsay evidence is because of the rapidity that information gets distorted, altered, muddled, etc (without need for any conscious malice). Ever play the phone game? Everyone whispers to the next person and what comes out after 10-15 people is barely recognizable as what went in. That's why hearsay evidence is worthless.
If you can quote someone who has direct knowledge of botting and/or RMT, that would be Evidence. "We simply know better" isn't even hearsay, it's fluff.
So, please link, quote, list, etc a tiny shred of Evidence to prop up your argument. So far the only evidence in this thread is my testimony.
I think this thread deserves a picture of an eiffel tower.
Guess who's in the middle.
|
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:47:00 -
[181] - Quote
RubyPorto. Actually, eye witness testimony from enough people tends to equal investigation, indictment and eventual prosecution in a court of law. So when enough people say that someone or something is breaking the law, it then falls upon the authorities to provide the lions share of evidence for prosecution, and then to enforce that prosecution.
The player base have already done all that we can do, and all that we are required to do. CCP has acknowledged the existence of bots in instances like unholy rage and the inclusion of the report bot button. That, and multiple instances of RMT can be found reported on common sites like EVE news. You can google Buy isk and find dozens of illegal ISK selling sites, and illegal ship selling sites all over the internet. So there is ample proof all over the place, you are just posting in such a way to defend/support your own agenda.
Conclusion... you're acting like a stereotypical Red Legion guy. Congratulations, you have fed the stereotype. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:51:00 -
[182] - Quote
Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Proud to make an impression on you, Selinate. Tears from weak trolls like you makes it worth posting here. Getting even less witty. Not even trying any more.
I think I have a fan.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:51:00 -
[183] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto. Actually, eye witness testimony from enough people tends to equal investigation, indictment and eventual prosecution in a court of law. So when enough people say that someone or something is breaking the law, it then falls upon the authorities to provide the lions share of evidence for prosecution, and to enforce that prosecution.
The player base has already done all that we can do, and all that we are required to do. CCP has acknowledged the existence of bots in unholy rage, and multiple instances of RMT can be found on common sites like EVE news. You can google Buy isk and find dozens of illegal ISK selling sites, and illegal ship selling sites. So there is ample proof all over the place, you are just posting in such a way to defend/support your own agenda.
Conclusion... you acting like a stereotypical Red Legion guy. Congratulations, you have fed the stereotype.
Do you even know the difference between an eye witness and a couple of people who walk into a bar, see a pair of lesbians in the entry way, and assume that the entire bar must be a gay bar?
Apparently not. But apparently you are still butthurt and without a valid argument. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:59:00 -
[184] - Quote
I was going to post something more lengthy here but I elected not to. Reason being, Selinate, you are just talking out of your ass at this point. Google "Buy isk online" and anyone will have all the evidence they will ever need.
Search About 3,690,000 results (0.31 seconds)
I don't need to bother with your kind of stupidity, nor do I need to justify an opinion that is supported by what is readily available on google. So, just keep on parroting butthurt memes. your willful stupidity amuses me. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:02:00 -
[185] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I was going to post something more lengthy here but I elected not to. Reason being, Selinate, you are just talking out of your ass at this point. Google "Buy isk online" and anyone will have all the evidence they will ever need.
Search About 3,690,000 results (0.31 seconds)
I don't need to bother with your kind of stupidity, nor do I need to justify an opinion that is supported by what is readily available on google. So, just keep on parroting butthurt memes. your willful stupidity amuses me.
So now, because there are websites that advertise selling isk, botting is rampant in DRF space, and also, DRF space is botting central, obviously. Failing logic still.
Now we're definitely seeing the butthurt, though. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1316
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:05:00 -
[186] - Quote
Selinate wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
You don't have to, but you are. Since you're ... uh... posting here... uh ... on the forums where... uh... debate happens.
The reason why the courts have consistently rejected hearsay evidence is because of the rapidity that information gets distorted, altered, muddled, etc (without need for any conscious malice). Ever play the phone game? Everyone whispers to the next person and what comes out after 10-15 people is barely recognizable as what went in. That's why hearsay evidence is worthless.
If you can quote someone who has direct knowledge of botting and/or RMT, that would be Evidence. "We simply know better" isn't even hearsay, it's fluff.
So, please link, quote, list, etc a tiny shred of Evidence to prop up your argument. So far the only evidence in this thread is my testimony.
I think this thread deserves a picture of an eiffel tower. Guess who's in the middle.
They clearly locked eyes moments before. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:06:00 -
[187] - Quote
Now remember kids, water isn't wet. And drone regions don't have bots. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1316
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:06:00 -
[188] - Quote
Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I was going to post something more lengthy here but I elected not to. Reason being, Selinate, you are just talking out of your ass at this point. Google "Buy isk online" and anyone will have all the evidence they will ever need.
Search About 3,690,000 results (0.31 seconds)
I don't need to bother with your kind of stupidity, nor do I need to justify an opinion that is supported by what is readily available on google. So, just keep on parroting butthurt memes. your willful stupidity amuses me. So now, because there are websites that advertise selling isk, botting is rampant in DRF space, and also, DRF space is botting central, obviously. Failing logic still. Now we're definitely seeing the butthurt, though. This. Eternum, you are still making argumentative leaps unsupported by evidence. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1316
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:08:00 -
[189] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Now remember kids, water isn't wet. And drone regions don't have bots.
1) I already pointed out, water being wet is tautologically true.
2) I live in Detorid. Angel space.
3) You would need evidence to back that assertion up anyway. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:09:00 -
[190] - Quote
Search About 3,690,000 results (0.31 seconds)
Seems fine to me. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1322
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:15:00 -
[191] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Search About 3,690,000 results (0.31 seconds)
Seems fine to me. Who cares what region has the most of them? That is nearly four million hits for a SINGLE internet video game and that means it is running rampant.
You searched isk sellers. Did you insted search "Isk Sellers who operate within the DRF"? Cause that's what you're arguing. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:17:00 -
[192] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Search About 3,690,000 results (0.31 seconds)
Seems fine to me. Who cares what region has the most of them? That is nearly four million hits for a SINGLE internet video game and that means it is running rampant. You searched isk sellers. Did you insted search "Isk Sellers who operate within the DRF"? Cause that's what you're arguing.
No I am not, that is what you're arguing. To say that drone regions is botting central is not to say that it is the only one in the game. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
638
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:17:00 -
[193] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Search About 3,690,000 results (0.31 seconds)
Seems fine to me. Who cares what region has the most of them? That is nearly four million hits for a SINGLE internet video game and that means it is running rampant. That is all the evidence anyone could ever ask for... so... that is that. Continue to argue that water isn't wet if you must, the facts are right there in black and white pasted all over google.
Are you one of those people who see an article with something like this in the title, "Night lights at home linked with myopia in children", and instantly assume that the night lights cause myopia?
Just because you find a bunch of websites that advertise that they sell isk online does not mean that botting is rampant in DRF space, nor that DRF space is bottling central.
|
Selinate
638
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:19:00 -
[194] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Search About 3,690,000 results (0.31 seconds)
Seems fine to me. Who cares what region has the most of them? That is nearly four million hits for a SINGLE internet video game and that means it is running rampant. You searched isk sellers. Did you insted search "Isk Sellers who operate within the DRF"? Cause that's what you're arguing. No I am not, that is what you're arguing. To say that drone regions is botting central is not to say that it is the only one in the game.
Memory impaired also now? Can't remember your own poor attempt at making points?
Or is that more indicative of an inability to read your own posts?
I can't decide which. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:19:00 -
[195] - Quote
Selinate wrote: Just because you find a bunch of websites that advertise that they sell isk online does not mean that botting is rampant in DRF space, nor that DRF space is bottling central.
You're right, I am sure DRF space is bot free. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:23:00 -
[196] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Search About 3,690,000 results (0.31 seconds)
Seems fine to me. Who cares what region has the most of them? That is nearly four million hits for a SINGLE internet video game and that means it is running rampant. You searched isk sellers. Did you insted search "Isk Sellers who operate within the DRF"? Cause that's what you're arguing.
Thx I actually did just that LOL This was an interesting read. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:25:00 -
[197] - Quote
Selinate & RubyPorto debates, while Eternum makes ad hominems and other sorts of faulty argumentation.
Also, adding my testimony that Drone Lands necessarily must be a comparatively hard region to bot/RMT in since you need minimum twice the number of accounts to do so (Since you don't get ISK straight away, but need to first salvage and second refine). In any other region you can "just" do the Sanctum and then get the ISK. Furthermore, I didn't seen any bots in Cobalt Edge while I was there. I didn't look for them, but if they are as rampant as you (Eternum) would make us think ... well, I should have seen them by just being there.
So in conclusion, I'd like to ask the same question as RubyPorto:
1) What is your evidence that DRF RMT's (OR RMT's more than any other null alliance in general). 2) If you have this evidence, why do you not report it to CCP to get the bots banned? 3) What evidence do you have that the DRF or former DRF bloc members in this thread wilfully close their eyes to RMT in DRF?
Gé¼: + several Important Spaceship Game Forum Likes for Selinate & RubyPorto. Continue working for sanity and a fact-based debate. ^^ |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1322
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:25:00 -
[198] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote: No I am not, that is what you're arguing. To say that drone regions is botting central is not to say that it is the only one in the game.
Eternum Praetorian wrote: To you I can only say that you live in the very heart of RMT/ Botting central. I don't feel like debating this with you, because your stance is one that requires everyone else to believe that what people are saying about drone space is completely unwarranted and baseless hearsay. We simply know better, and if you don't that is fine. Have fun out there.
But, your taking a stance that directly contradicts the observations of many others.[who?]
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Meaning that if you have not seen said things for yourself by now, then you must be living under a rock out there.
So, uh, sounds like you're arguing a few things: 1) RED.Legion lives in drone space (demonstrably false, look at a map) 2) Botting occurs in drone space (Citation needed) 3) That botting results in RMT (Citation needed) 4) I have actively avoided seeing evidence of 2) and 3) (Citation needed) Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1322
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:29:00 -
[199] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Search About 3,690,000 results (0.31 seconds)
Seems fine to me. Who cares what region has the most of them? That is nearly four million hits for a SINGLE internet video game and that means it is running rampant. You searched isk sellers. Did you insted search "Isk Sellers who operate within the DRF"? Cause that's what you're arguing. Thx I actually did just that LOL This was an interesting read.
Took you a while to find that. Now you have some solid evidence that botting/RMT was going on 3 years ago. Your argument is that it is going on today (or within the last ~6 months since I moved there). Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:29:00 -
[200] - Quote
I am actually, and you should also read my link.
Quote: When you dealt with the brokers and customers, you must have stumbled into other isk sellers as well. What alliance have highest count of bots in them / rmt players?
I am 1 man but if a group of ppl with 5 bot each x 20, can pretty much after 1 month equip 50 ms, and steamroll entire eve. It is hard to say who rmt, and who use isk for supercaps, but for sure, the drone regions have the biggest % of botters in eve. Mainly in their renter outlets.
From single alliance, white noise-rol-stain empire-goonswarm have the highest %.
But I am sure eve news made up that entire interview in order to smear the poor null sec alliances. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:31:00 -
[201] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Search About 3,690,000 results (0.31 seconds)
Seems fine to me. Who cares what region has the most of them? That is nearly four million hits for a SINGLE internet video game and that means it is running rampant. You searched isk sellers. Did you insted search "Isk Sellers who operate within the DRF"? Cause that's what you're arguing. Thx I actually did just that LOL This was an interesting read. Took you a while to find that. Now you have some solid evidence that botting/RMT was going on 3 years ago. Your argument is that it is going on today (or within the last ~6 months since I moved there).
And yours is... I guess... that since then things have gotten noticeably better? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1323
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:36:00 -
[202] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Search About 3,690,000 results (0.31 seconds)
Seems fine to me. Who cares what region has the most of them? That is nearly four million hits for a SINGLE internet video game and that means it is running rampant. You searched isk sellers. Did you insted search "Isk Sellers who operate within the DRF"? Cause that's what you're arguing. Thx I actually did just that LOL This was an interesting read. Took you a while to find that. Now you have some solid evidence that botting/RMT was going on 3 years ago. Your argument is that it is going on today (or within the last ~6 months since I moved there). And yours is... I guess... that since then things have gotten noticeably better?
I need make no argument until you prove your case. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:38:00 -
[203] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:I need make no argument until you prove your case.
According to you I made a legitimate case that botting and RMT was a major issue 3 years ago, and was so in the drone regions among other places. I have also provided evidence as required. So... are you now going to pretend that I did not?
I ask you, do you believe that the situation has significantly improved since the publishing of that article? That is a simple enough of a question to ask, and it only requires a yes or a no. Unless ofc you want to play more debate team word games with me. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:45:00 -
[204] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:I need make no argument until you prove your case. According to you I made a legitimate case that botting and RMT was a major issue 3 years ago, and was so in the drone regions among other places. I have also provided evidence as required. So... are you now going to pretend that I did not? I ask you, do you believe that the situation has significantly improved since the publishing of that article? One should assume so, yes. http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=687 + the others since then.
I like how you assume that the guy interviewed in the article is the ultimate truth on all things RMT in DRF land. The article has about the same level of trust from me as a Wikipedia article with only one source. Since that is what this guy is: One source, one opinion. If you can get, say, 50+ opinions or sources from clearly different people or parties, you can start making statistics. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1323
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:50:00 -
[205] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:I need make no argument until you prove your case. According to you I made a legitimate case that botting and RMT was a major issue 3 years ago, and was so in the drone regions among other places. I have also provided evidence as required. So... are you now going to pretend that I did not? I ask you, do you believe that the situation has significantly improved since the publishing of that article? That is a simple enough of a question to ask, and it only requires a yes or a no. Unless ofc you want to play more debate team word games with me.
You provided one piece of evidence that RMT was a major issue 3 years ago. Unfortunately, your argument was that botting/RMT are a serious issue at present.
My answer to your question is:
I have absolutely no direct (or indirect) knowledge of the state of this area of space 3 years ago. At present, I have seen no direct evidence that botting occurs, and the only indirect evidence I see is of the ruthless persecution of what bots might exist. Like I said, I live in Detorid.
So as far as a yes or no; I don't know, as that would require knowledge of both states, and I only have knowledge of one state. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 05:54:00 -
[206] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:I need make no argument until you prove your case. According to you I made a legitimate case that botting and RMT was a major issue 3 years ago, and was so in the drone regions among other places. I have also provided evidence as required. So... are you now going to pretend that I did not? I ask you, do you believe that the situation has significantly improved since the publishing of that article? One should assume so, yes. http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=687 + the others since then. I like how you assume that the guy interviewed in the article is the ultimate truth on all things RMT in DRF land. The article has about the same level of trust from me as a Wikipedia article with only one source. Since that is what this guy is: One source, one opinion. If you can get, say, 50+ opinions or sources from clearly different people or parties, you can start making statistics.
And here i was looking forward to RubyPorto's retort. Sigh...
I guess I am done here. I will just leave the readers with one last commentary before I turn in for the night. What exactly are these nay naysayers arguing? That there is not nearly 4M hits for RMT/botting mined isk on Google? That the CSM's do not game the voting system? That the drone regions do not have bots in their belts? That these things to not impact the game environment?
Is that what they are trying to argue?
Can you possibly believe that? Given the great wealth of player testimonials and both direct and circumstantial evidence presented over years of game play, are you to believe people when they make claims like these?
The only gain that I can see by them doing so, is the gain of self interest in order to protect their illegal activities, friends and assets. I hope you all enjoyed the show. That is all. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 06:00:00 -
[207] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Oh there you are...
So you don't know then. Well that was a waste of over an hour of my life. Gn! Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1323
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 06:05:00 -
[208] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
And here i was looking forward to RubyPorto's retort. Sigh...
I guess I am done here. I will just leave the readers with one last question before I turn in for the night. What exactly are these nay naysayers arguing? That there is not nearly 4M hits for RMT/botting mined isk on Google? That the CSM's do not game the voting system? That the drone regions do not have bots in their belts? That these things to not impact the game environment?
Is that what they are trying to argue? Can you possibly believe that? Given the great wealth of player testimonials and direct and circumstantial evidence presented over years of game play, are we really to believe people when they make claims like these?
The only gain that I can see by them doing so, is the gain of self interest in order to protect their illegal activities, friends and assets. I hope you all enjoyed the show. That is all.
Main reason I'm here is because you annoyed me with an unprovoked ad hominem attack. The fact that your argument does not line up with my experiences was a secondary concern.
As for the rest of this post. Aaron Sorkin (either on drugs or post rehab) you ain't. He gets to write impassioned pleas to win the argument via loquaciousness (he also usually lays out some evidence). You're not that good at writing.
1) We never denied the number of hits you got, just the wild inferences you made from that number. 2) The CSM voting system works by the number of accounts who support a candidate. The only way to game that would be via 4hr reactivations or Buddy invite chains >1month beforehand 3) I just said I have seen no direct evidence of bots in Detorid, and no evidence whatsoever of bots being tolerated in my Alliance. 4) Please stop, once again putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about any sort of effect on the game. 5) Per above, no that's not what we're arguing. 6) I like to think all of my statements are pretty defensible. 7) If you have such a wealth to draw upon, why have you not presented it? Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1323
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 06:08:00 -
[209] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Oh there you are... So you don't know then. Well that was a waste of over an hour of my life. Gn!
You asked a question that cannot be possibly answered simply. You asked for a simple answer. "I don't know" is the closest approximation. Read above that, and you'll see what we like to call "context." Quoting somebody's statement's out of "context" is considered rude. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
bilingi
Ghosts of the Storm
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 08:18:00 -
[210] - Quote
no DIRECT EVIDENCE? HHAHAAHHAa so whos creating isk and super caps and such for these rmt sites.. SOme of those ships can only be done with allaince resources.....
Thats funny. No direct evidence.....SO which RMT site is yours? |
|
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
263
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 08:58:00 -
[211] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:But I am sure eve news made up that entire interview in order to smear the poor null sec alliances.
yes evenews24 would never distort the truth or outright lie in order to push an agenda ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 09:04:00 -
[212] - Quote
bilingi wrote: no DIRECT EVIDENCE? HHAHAAHHAa so whos creating isk and super caps and such for these rmt sites.. SOme of those ships can only be done with allaince resources.....
Thats funny. No direct evidence.....SO which RMT site is yours?
Alphea Abbra wrote:So in conclusion, I'd like to ask the same question as RubyPorto:
1) What is your evidence that DRF RMT's (OR RMT's more than any other null alliance in general). 2) If you have this evidence, why do you not report it to CCP to get the bots banned? 3) What evidence do you have that the DRF or former DRF bloc members in this thread wilfully close their eyes to RMT in DRF? Adding question 4) What evidence do you have that any single member or collective of members in DRF run a RMT site?
Please note that "Everyone knows..." or "I heard..." or "It must be like this..." aren't arguments, they are postulates. It's not up to DRF to protect its' "good name", it's up to those making these claims to prove that DRF RMT's (Or RMT's more than any other null bloc). Innocent until proven otherwise and all that. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2706
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 10:01:00 -
[213] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.
You're talking as if someone in an alliance running for the CSM has some magical ability to command every single account in that alliance to 100% reliably vote for him.
Have you ever been in a 0.0 alliance? Which one? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Roime
UNFRL Fleet Operations CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
149
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 10:42:00 -
[214] - Quote
Some observations of all these similar CSM threads:
- anti-CSM claims are always presented without any evidence - constructive posts with references to evidence, such as CSM minute meetings, Crucible etc are disregarded - personal, subjective opinions about certain alliances are presented as "common opinion"
According to these people nulllsec is an evil, monolithic bloc with free ISK raining from the skies, full of veterans who have used their 5+ years or game time and 6 accounts solely in the purpose of griefing hisec noobs and destroying EVE.
Also, Mittani is really Putin and just bought sisilian mafia and Exxon with RMT botting money.
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 12:33:00 -
[215] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Oh there you are... So you don't know then. Well that was a waste of over an hour of my life. Gn! You asked a question that cannot be possibly answered simply. You asked for a simple answer. "I don't know" is the closest approximation. Read above that, and you'll see what we like to call "context." Quoting somebody's statement's out of "context" is considered rude.
That is what you have been doing to my posts all night. People like you greatly exaggerate certain unprovable uncertainties in order to mask the bigger picture. Some of you do it quite well. You clearly stated that you do not know, and I accept that. Just because you have not seen a thing, or do not care to investigate something further does not mean that others are the same way.
I know a couple of spots just in empire where the botters run rampant. I know they are bots because I go bowling with them in a hurricane that can MWD it's way to 6,000 m/s. My activities create circumstances that disable the bots on a large scale, and I have also reported said bots. As others have stated before, one or two disappear only to be replaced by others shortly their after. And that is just in empire. So as much as people like you try and play word games to neatly sweep the facts under the carpet, you cannot convince the multitudes of people who have witnessed it first hand. At best, all you will do is earn the partnership of others who use said bots, and RMT.
These are things that now permeate all MMO's to a great degree.
EVE is not unique in it's current EULA violations and corruption. So when you are trying to convince people that this is not and issue in EVE, you are also stating, by default, that RMT and bots do not permeate all MMO's at this juncture and evolution of internet gaming. You are wrong. Google proves it...and that is most certainly not a lie, an exaggeration or an unprovable fact. It is rock solid evidence, regardless of how much you may try to corrupt an obvious reality. So play your word games, I find your like ridiculous. How you look in the face of hard evidence and shrug it off in order to service your own agenda is laughable to anyone with a sound mind.
RubyPorto wrote:Main reason I'm here is because you annoyed me with an unprovoked ad hominem attack.
You ad hominem yourself, when you behave with such transparent stupidity. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1329
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 14:38:00 -
[216] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
That is what you have been doing to my posts all night. People like you greatly exaggerate certain unprovable uncertainties in order to mask the bigger picture. Some of you do it quite well. You clearly stated that you do not know, and I accept that. Just because you have not seen a thing, or do not care to investigate something further does not mean that others are the same way.
I know a couple of spots just in empire where the botters run rampant. I know they are bots because I go bowling with them in a hurricane that can MWD it's way to 6,000 m/s. My activities create circumstances that disable the bots on a large scale, and I have also reported said bots. As others have stated before, one or two disappear only to be replaced by others shortly their after. And that is just in empire. So as much as people like you try and play word games to neatly sweep the facts under the carpet, you cannot convince the multitudes of people who have witnessed it first hand. At best, all you will do is earn the partnership of others who use said bots, and RMT.
RubyPorto wrote: My answer to your question is:
I have absolutely no direct (or indirect) knowledge of the state of this area of space 3 years ago. At present, I have seen no direct evidence that botting occurs, and the only indirect evidence I see is of the ruthless persecution of what bots might exist. Like I said, I live in Detorid.
Read the whole post and you'll see why I cannot simply answer a double barreled question.
For example, "Sir, Have you stopped beating your wife?" is constructed in the same manner your question is. With the following answer choices (known as "simple" answers); yes, no, I don't know; how would you answer that question without admitting to beating your wife at some point?
I exaggerated nothing (and even quietly provided you some hints to help your arguments), and took no statement of yours out of context deliberately. I am under no obligation to do any investigation whatsoever, as I am not making a positive claim*. You are making a positive claim, and as such are obligated to investigate said claim to provide evidence.
Great, you know where there are Bots in Empire. Fantastic. How is that evidence of bots in nullsec? There's a massive trade hub in empire where enemies trade with each other freely. Is that evidence that there is a massive trade hub in Null where enemies trade with each other freely?
If there are multitudes who have seen specific evidence of botting and/or RMT, why have you not quoted them, linked to their posts, or used any other method to enter their testimony here.
These are things that now permeate all MMO's to a great degree.
EVE is not unique in it's current EULA violations and corruption. So when you are trying to convince people that this is not and issue in EVE, you are also stating, by default, that RMT and bots do not permeate all MMO's at this juncture and evolution of internet gaming. You are wrong. Google proves it...and that is most certainly not a lie, an exaggeration or an unprovable fact. It is rock solid evidence, regardless of how much you may try to corrupt an obvious reality. So play your word games, I find your like ridiculous. How you look in the face of hard evidence and shrug it off in order to service your own agenda is laughable to anyone with a sound mind.
RubyPorto wrote:Main reason I'm here is because you annoyed me with an unprovoked ad hominem attack.
You ad hominem yourself, when you behave with such transparent stupidity.[/quote]
I am stating no such thing. You are arguing that "... I can only say that you live in the very heart of RMT/ Botting central" an argument for which you have still made no attempt to provide articulable facts, let alone evidence.
That people sell ISK and WoW Gold ans whatever is a provable fact, and the google results are strong evidence of that. HOWEVER, that does not allow you to leap down the chain to "The DRF sells ISK" to "The DRF bots" to "RED.Legion tolerates bots." If you were arguing "There are ISK sellers *SOMEWHERE*" you'd have enough evidence for me to be convinced, but that's not your argument, and you don't get to move the goalposts to claim victory anyway.
Ad Hominem: "an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it." I do not thing that term means what you think it means. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
63
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 14:51:00 -
[217] - Quote
Quote:RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:
That is what you have been doing to my posts all night. People like you greatly exaggerate certain unprovable uncertainties in order to mask the bigger picture. Some of you do it quite well. You clearly stated that you do not know, and I accept that. Just because you have not seen a thing, or do not care to investigate something further does not mean that others are the same way.
I know a couple of spots just in empire where the botters run rampant. I know they are bots because I go bowling with them in a hurricane that can MWD it's way to 6,000 m/s. My activities create circumstances that disable the bots on a large scale, and I have also reported said bots. As others have stated before, one or two disappear only to be replaced by others shortly their after. And that is just in empire. So as much as people like you try and play word games to neatly sweep the facts under the carpet, you cannot convince the multitudes of people who have witnessed it first hand. At best, all you will do is earn the partnership of others who use said bots, and RMT.
RubyPorto wrote: My answer to your question is:
I have absolutely no direct (or indirect) knowledge of the state of this area of space 3 years ago. At present, I have seen no direct evidence that botting occurs, and the only indirect evidence I see is of the ruthless persecution of what bots might exist. Like I said, I live in Detorid.
Read the whole post and you'll see why I cannot simply answer a double barreled question. For example, "Sir, Have you stopped beating your wife?" is constructed in the same manner your question is. With the following answer choices (known as "simple" answers); yes, no, I don't know; how would you answer that question without admitting to beating your wife at some point? I exaggerated nothing (and even quietly provided you some hints to help your arguments), and took no statement of yours out of context deliberately. I am under no obligation to do any investigation whatsoever, as I am not making a positive claim*. You are making a positive claim, and as such are obligated to investigate said claim to provide evidence. Great, you know where there are Bots in Empire. Fantastic. How is that evidence of bots in nullsec? There's a massive trade hub in empire where enemies trade with each other freely. Is that evidence that there is a massive trade hub in Null where enemies trade with each other freely? If there are multitudes who have seen specific evidence of botting and/or RMT, why have you not quoted them, linked to their posts, or used any other method to enter their testimony here. These are things that now permeate all MMO's to a great degree.EVE is not unique in it's current EULA violations and corruption. So when you are trying to convince people that this is not and issue in EVE, you are also stating, by default, that RMT and bots do not permeate all MMO's at this juncture and evolution of internet gaming. You are wrong. Google proves it...and that is most certainly not a lie, an exaggeration or an unprovable fact. It is rock solid evidence, regardless of how much you may try to corrupt an obvious reality. So play your word games, I find your like ridiculous. How you look in the face of hard evidence and shrug it off in order to service your own agenda is laughable to anyone with a sound mind. RubyPorto wrote:Main reason I'm here is because you annoyed me with an unprovoked ad hominem attack. You ad hominem yourself, when you behave with such transparent stupidity. I am stating no such thing. You are arguing that " ... I can only say that you live in the very heart of RMT/ Botting central" an argument for which you have still made no attempt to provide articulable facts, let alone evidence. That people sell ISK and WoW Gold ans whatever is a provable fact, and the google results are strong evidence of that. HOWEVER, that does not allow you to leap down the chain to "The DRF sells ISK" to "The DRF bots" to "RED.Legion tolerates bots." If you were arguing "There are ISK sellers *SOMEWHERE*" you'd have enough evidence for me to be convinced, but that's not your argument, and you don't get to move the goalposts to claim victory anyway. Ad Hominem: "an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it." I do not thing that term means what you think it means. [/quote]
Why dont you two guys get a room? or at least try stay on topic... |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1329
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 14:59:00 -
[218] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:
Why dont you two guys get a room? or at least try stay on topic...
220 posts in, the topic is whatever's at hand. Moreover,
WhyTry1 wrote: tippia gtfo out my thread, your opinion will never matter... now get out
This is surely on topic.
WhyTry1 wrote: fine keep posting, you will just be ignored.
As is this.
If you want to keep something on topic, two one line posts personally attacking someone who makes on topic replies in the first page of responses is probably not the way to go about it.
Tippia also happens to be a fairly well respected member of the forum community. So attacking Tippia is probably not the best way to get people to agree with you. Finally, you seem to be allergic to disagreement, so why are you posting in the EvE-O forums? Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
63
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 15:14:00 -
[219] - Quote
Quote:Tippia also happens to be a fairly well respected member of the forum community
Respected by who? You mean cos he is the biggest eve-o troll?
Not in my eyes hes not. Tippia is the most glass half empty troll on these forums. He is the most negative poster on the forums, so if you follow his lead then i am concerned for you. Infact to put it blunty he's damn annoying..
He rarely agrees with anything, and must have a constant sore throat due to the constant deep throating of goons..
His opinion to me is worthless, and quite frankly i just skip past anything he posts.
Is this alright by you?
I am not here to get friends ( i have many RL ones, I dont need virtual pixel ones) and people to agree with me, this is my opinion, if people dont agree with it then that is their choice. |
Ulair Memmet
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 15:21:00 -
[220] - Quote
@OP Democracy has never meant that the right people get power, but the popular ones. But it's better than having no elections at all. CCP choosing the CSM members would make the whole thing useless. |
|
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
63
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 15:29:00 -
[221] - Quote
Ulair Memmet wrote:@OP Democracy has never meant that the right people get power, but the popular ones. But it's better than having no elections at all. CCP choosing the CSM members would make the whole thing useless.
look seriously ppl need to stop talking about this democracy crap. When real politicians are up for election they campaign and get votes from people that ARE NOT DIRECTLY LINKED with them. If this was done in real life then it would be classed as vote rigging. In eve it is THEIR OWN players that vote for them, and when its candidates of large alliances, then the amount of votes the get from both their own members and alts pretty much guarantee a seat on the CSM. This is not right, quite simply not.
Yes in real life politics tend to go for a certain party, like conservative, labour, lib dems, purely because of the partym and the candidate is only voted for becuase they are in that party not becuase of their own abilities. However there are NOT parties in eve like RL. So you cant compare it that way either.
Eve politics/democracy is NOT the same as RL politics, so stop comparing the two...
Yes of course other people outside these large alliances have a chance so to speak, my issue is that these candidates are getting on the CSM purely becuase their own members voted for them, and have direct links with them. If these guys where not part of the large alliances, they would never get voted for, never! |
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 15:43:00 -
[222] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote: He rarely agrees with anything, and must have a constant sore throat due to the constant deep throating of goons..
His opinion to me is worthless, and quite frankly i just skip past anything he posts.
Is this alright by you?
I am not here to get friends ( i have many RL ones, I dont need virtual pixel ones) and people to agree with me, this is my opinion, if people dont agree with it then that is their choice.
And you respond to people who don't agree with you by making personal attacks/cheap sexual gags or ignoring them completely. Obviously the concept of a discussion has been lost on you. Why don't you try debating with all the people who are in your thread telling you how stupid you are?
|
Zytani
The Motley Crew Reborn
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 15:45:00 -
[223] - Quote
we should just use Chribba's Dice to elect our csm members
each active account gets asigned one number then the roll the dice for each csm seat available
which ever number gets called gets a seat at the csm.
get called but dont wanna be on csm? have ccp place an "opt out of CSM elections" check box in your account management page |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2713
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 15:46:00 -
[224] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:Quote:Tippia also happens to be a fairly well respected member of the forum community Respected by who? You mean cos he is the biggest eve-o troll? Not in my eyes hes not. Tippia is the most glass half empty troll on these forums. He is the most negative poster on the forums, so if you follow his lead then i am concerned for you. Infact to put it blunty he's damn annoying.. He rarely agrees with anything, and must have a constant sore throat due to the constant deep throating of goons.. His opinion to me is worthless, and quite frankly i just skip past anything he posts. Is this alright by you? I am not here to get friends ( i have many RL ones, I dont need virtual pixel ones) and people to agree with me, this is my opinion, if people dont agree with it then that is their choice.
People like you are the reason Socrates was executed. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1329
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 15:54:00 -
[225] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:Ulair Memmet wrote:@OP Democracy has never meant that the right people get power, but the popular ones. But it's better than having no elections at all. CCP choosing the CSM members would make the whole thing useless. look seriously ppl need to stop talking about this democracy crap. When real politicians are up for election they campaign and get votes from people that ARE NOT DIRECTLY LINKED with them. If this was done in real life then it would be classed as vote rigging. In eve it is THEIR OWN players that vote for them, and when its candidates of large alliances, then the amount of votes the get from both their own members and alts pretty much guarantee a seat on the CSM. This is not right, quite simply not. Yes in real life politics tend to go for a certain party, like conservative, labour, lib dems, purely because of the partym and the candidate is only voted for becuase they are in that party not becuase of their own abilities. However there are NOT parties in eve like RL. So you cant compare it that way either. Eve politics/democracy is NOT the same as RL politics, so stop comparing the two... Yes of course other people outside these large alliances have a chance so to speak, my issue is that these candidates are getting on the CSM purely becuase their own members voted for them, and have direct links with them. If these guys where not part of the large alliances, they would never get voted for, never!
So, when I vote for my Senator as he runs for president, he's fixing the election by using the votes of people who already support him? Or when an entire family is involved in politics and each member goes campaigning to help the other family members, that's election fraud?
Sure, at a national level, very few people have the connections to gain a large number of votes from groups not specifically set up to help consolidate power (parties), but you see this sort of thing all the time at a local level. You have the small town mayor who's family has always been mayor, the small town sheriff (an elected position usually) who was supported by his brother the mayor, and as such wins in a landslide every term.
In real politics, no matter how they are affiliated with the candidate, so long as a voter is eligible to vote, their vote counts.
Now IF you could prove buying votes or threats were involved, you might have a case, BUT that was explicitly condoned in the CSM elections, since this is EVE and HTFU. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Caldari Acolyte
Perkone Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:13:00 -
[226] - Quote
Im not much for CSM's and won't get into the argument, But there should be term limits for obvious reasons. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8253
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:29:00 -
[227] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:A red legion guy posting. I was going to respond to your post with something well thought out and intelligent, but then I realized that you belonged to red legion. So instead I will give you this... BwhahahahahahaTrolololololololo!!!!!!111111111111 Look at the red legion guy talking about bots and RMT!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominemIn no alliance that I have been in have I seen clear, articulable evidence of botting. I've seen no evidence of RMT. I have heard from people in my alliance who will (with permission) gank the fu ck out of suspected friendly bots. I have also seen that permission granted, and the resultant killmails. Now if you don't want to believe me due to some preconceived notion of the company I choose to keep, that's up to you. But if we're going to have a debate, avoiding my arguments and focusing on that company is not constructive (nor is it productive to furthering your argument). I had begun to lose interest in this thread until I read this post, but now I am given impetus to address it with renewed vigor. I do not know who you are or what standings your affiliation has with mine, but I like you regardless of those things. Please keep on posting this sort of even-handed and well-reasoned replies, and you will have all my "Likes," here on the very important forums dot EVE Online. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8253
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:31:00 -
[228] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible. I can't even fix this post because I'm not sure what direction you were trying to take it in, given what you were trying to respond to... Maybe you should just quit while you're... well.... very far behind? Doesn't matter since it was not directed towards you. Bad posting negatively impacts everyone, and bad logic repeated loudly and succinctly can sway the feeble minded. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8253
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:31:00 -
[229] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible.
I have yet to see a sign or other indication that it is my duty as a player to test my allies for evidence of botting. Again, you're skipping my questions: If you have seen specific evidence of botting: 1) Why have you not reported it? 2) What specific evidence do you have?* N.B. * "Everyone knows X" is not specific evidence. And there's another good post. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8253
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:32:00 -
[230] - Quote
Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: @Selinate
Oh yea Mr. Poopy pants?
You know, when some people try and flame me on these forums, I can at least get a good laugh out of it because they are intelligent, witty people. This doesn't apply to you. You are, by far, the least witty troll I've seen on these forums. It's entirely possible he's in it just to boost his post count, to dilute some other message, to farm for "likes," or some other reason not at all related to the presentation of an articulate argument. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
|
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8253
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:33:00 -
[231] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible. I can't even fix this post because I'm not sure what direction you were trying to take it in, given what you were trying to respond to... Maybe you should just quit while you're... well.... very far behind? Doesn't matter since it was not directed towards you. Open forum. Everyone can respond to the "arguments" anyone else makes. That's the beauty of it. What the hell guy, where have you been my whole space life? Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Demonfuge Malevolent
Energy Core 2 V.I.R.A.L.
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:36:00 -
[232] - Quote
When does the CSM voting begin? |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8253
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:39:00 -
[233] - Quote
Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Search About 3,690,000 results (0.31 seconds)
Seems fine to me. Who cares what region has the most of them? That is nearly four million hits for a SINGLE internet video game and that means it is running rampant. That is all the evidence anyone could ever ask for... so... that is that. Continue to argue that water isn't wet if you must, the facts are right there in black and white pasted all over google. Are you one of those people who see an article with something like this in the title, "Night lights at home linked with myopia in children", and instantly assume that the night lights cause myopia? Just because you find a bunch of websites that advertise that they sell isk online does not mean that botting is rampant in DRF space, nor that DRF space is bottling central. Did you know that height is positively correlated with measured intelligence among humans, and that ice cream sales are positively correlated with violent crimes in the United States? Clearly being tall makes one smart, and purchasing ice cream inclines one to murder. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:40:00 -
[234] - Quote
Ronald Ray Gun wrote:WhyTry1 wrote: He rarely agrees with anything, and must have a constant sore throat due to the constant deep throating of goons..
His opinion to me is worthless, and quite frankly i just skip past anything he posts.
Is this alright by you?
I am not here to get friends ( i have many RL ones, I dont need virtual pixel ones) and people to agree with me, this is my opinion, if people dont agree with it then that is their choice.
And you respond to people who don't agree with you by making personal attacks/cheap sexual gags or ignoring them completely. Obviously the concept of a discussion has been lost on you. Why don't you try debating with all the people who are in your thread telling you how stupid you are?
Awww cry moar |
Demonfuge Malevolent
Energy Core 2 V.I.R.A.L.
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:42:00 -
[235] - Quote
I like ice cream.
When does CSM voting start? |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8253
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:43:00 -
[236] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I am actually, and you should also read my link. Quote: When you dealt with the brokers and customers, you must have stumbled into other isk sellers as well. What alliance have highest count of bots in them / rmt players?
I am 1 man but if a group of ppl with 5 bot each x 20, can pretty much after 1 month equip 50 ms, and steamroll entire eve. It is hard to say who rmt, and who use isk for supercaps, but for sure, the drone regions have the biggest % of botters in eve. Mainly in their renter outlets.
From single alliance, white noise-rol-stain empire-goonswarm have the highest %.
But I am sure eve news made up that entire interview in order to smear the poor null sec alliances. It's not even a smear campaign, it makes invalid assertions. From my reading of the portion you quoted, this article is alleging that people bot for ISK in the DRF to finance supercapital production. Drones do not have ISK bounties. They would have to bot for the drone compounds, loot those drone compounds and refine them, and directly build supercapital hulls from the minerals they acquired through that. I do not say this to turn attention away from whether or not the DRF has bots in it, but rather to attack the credibility of that source; if it is getting one easily-reasoned and verified "fact" wrong in its premises, then it stands to reason that it could, through error or malice, come to false conclusions. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:43:00 -
[237] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
Now IF you could prove buying votes or threats were involved, you might have a case, BUT that was explicitly condoned in the CSM elections, since this is EVE and HTFU.
So you seriously believe HONESTLY that this does not happen? Seriously?
HTFU has nothing to do with this topic whatsoever...
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
mUfFiN fAcToRy Psychotic Tendencies.
900
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:46:00 -
[238] - Quote
Someone's mad he's not popular |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8253
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:46:00 -
[239] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:But I am sure eve news made up that entire interview in order to smear the poor null sec alliances. yes evenews24 would never distort the truth or outright lie in order to push an agenda How dare you impugn Riverini's space honor Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8253
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:47:00 -
[240] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Someone's mad he's not popular It's me. I feel so inadequate. Hug? Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
|
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8255
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:48:00 -
[241] - Quote
Roime wrote:Some observations of all these similar CSM threads:
- anti-CSM claims are always presented without any evidence - constructive posts with references to evidence, such as CSM minute meetings, Crucible etc are disregarded - personal, subjective opinions about certain alliances are presented as "common opinion"
According to these people nulllsec is an evil, monolithic bloc with free ISK raining from the skies, full of veterans who have used their 5+ years or game time and 6 accounts solely in the purpose of griefing hisec noobs and destroying EVE.
Also, Mittani is really Putin and just bought sisilian mafia and Exxon with RMT botting money.
I wish Mittani was Putin. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4664
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 17:05:00 -
[242] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:He rarely agrees with anything Incorrect. I agree with plenty of things provided that they back up their claims and assertions with actual facts, reasoning, and arguments. Most of my GÇ£disagreeingGÇ¥ with people is simply me not buying their claims at face value and asking for something to back those claims up. Whenever this very reasonable request is met by being called a troll or by random abuse, the suspicion grows that the claim is just bullshit and that whatever the poster wants done is probably not for the better. Hell, I've ended up GÇ£disagreeingGÇ¥ with people taking a position I support, simply because their reasoning is so completely lack-lustre or nonsensical.
Now, I know that asking for things like reasoning or a proper argument simply infuriates trolls because it completely ruins their MO and exposes them in very short order, but that's just an added benefitGǪ
Quote:GǪand must have a constant sore throat due to the constant deep throating of goons. Nah. The thing about the goons is that, while they're a bunch of gits, they're at least a bunch of honest gits who have no compunction about being gits. You know exactly where they stand. Also, as it happens, they have a pretty good grasp of how EVE actually works, unlike many others (it's what draw them to the game, in a way).
Quote:His opinion to me is worthless, and quite frankly i just skip past anything he posts. That would be alright if you actually did it. Since you don't, and instead just get nasty and dismissive (and end up hurting your own argumentation), it's not alright. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Kietay Ayari
Rogue Elements.
320
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 17:52:00 -
[243] - Quote
An election is rigged because the person with the most votes won. Amazing. Ferox #1 |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 19:40:00 -
[244] - Quote
Tippia wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:He rarely agrees with anything Incorrect. I agree with plenty of things provided that they back up their claims and assertions with actual facts, reasoning, and arguments. Most of my GǣdisagreeingGǥ with people is simply me not buying their claims at face value and asking for something to back those claims up. Whenever this very reasonable request is met by being called a troll or by random abuse, the suspicion grows that the claim is just bullshit and that whatever the poster wants done is probably not for the better. Hell, I've ended up GǣdisagreeingGǥ with people taking a position I support, simply because their reasoning is so completely lack-lustre or nonsensical. Now, I know that asking for things like reasoning or a proper argument simply infuriates trolls because it completely ruins their MO and exposes them in very short order, but that's just an added benefitGǪ Quote:GǪand must have a constant sore throat due to the constant deep throating of goons. Nah. The thing about the goons is that, while they're a bunch of gits, they're at least a bunch of honest gits who have no compunction about being gits. You know exactly where they stand. Also, as it happens, they have a pretty good grasp of how EVE actually works, unlike many others (it's what draw them to the game, in a way). Quote:His opinion to me is worthless, and quite frankly i just skip past anything he posts. That would be alright if you actually did it. Since you don't, and instead just get nasty and dismissive (and end up hurting your own argumentation), it's not alright.
pot calling kettle black....comes to mind.. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
995
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 19:42:00 -
[245] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. I would say having one representative for each of those areas and no chairman would be the way to go but still leave the voting up to the players. Allow one vote per player overall so that one alliance can't control it all either. Whoever gets the most votes in each category is that years CSM for that category. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
bilingi
Ghosts of the Storm
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 19:53:00 -
[246] - Quote
Its funny thru he is right about Tippia
SO basicly you guys are saying CCP themselves are selling that Isk and Super caps on RMT sites... Well thats good to know... I mean there are no bots in 0.0 Dotlan lies..... |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 20:42:00 -
[247] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Great, you know where there are Bots in Empire. Fantastic. How is that evidence of bots in nullsec? There's a massive trade hub in empire where enemies trade with each other freely. Is that evidence that there is a massive trade hub in Null where enemies trade with each other freely?
Unimaginable stupidity on such a scale, that you can only be doing this on purpose. Congratulations, Mr red legion guy. Here is another ad hominem for you, "ridiculous statements like this means that you are no longer worth my time". Your careful manipulation of logic hurts my brain. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 22:43:00 -
[248] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote: Did you know that ice cream sales are positively correlated with violent crimes in the United States? Clearly purchasing ice cream inclines one to murder.
E.g., Studies have demonstrated that rates of violent crime go up as the sale of ice cream also increases. This is a positive correlation, but should we conclude that eating ice cream causes people to get violent and commit crime?... (This could really simplify the Crime Bill!)
Well, as it turns out, this positive correlation is explained by a third variable that's not so apparent at first... That is, if we take a closer look, we see that warm weather will lead to more ice cream being sold, but it will also lead more people to be out in public places and thus increase the opportunity for violent crime to occur...
& News Flash: Botting and RMT are prolific in all major MMO's, EVE included.
You're not still perturbed that I called you out on like farming are you? Tisk.. tisk... Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
638
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 23:15:00 -
[249] - Quote
This praetorium fellow apparently is STILL butthurt over being proven wrong. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
232
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 23:52:00 -
[250] - Quote
Botting and RMT are found on all MMOs including EVE. Its just that some people are more angry towards bots and some are less angry towards them.
Honestly I only care really when they are about to take the roid or so I was gonna go for, then its time to pull the plug on them. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 23:52:00 -
[251] - Quote
Selinate wrote:This praetorium fellow apparently is STILL butthurt over being proven wrong.
You really like that word, I take it you have some RL experience?
My stance is that Bots and RMT pervade all modern MMO's including eve. If you are suggesting otherwise, then I suggest that you present some solid evidence in order to prove your point. Else your words are just dust and air. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4664
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 23:58:00 -
[252] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:My stance is that Bots and RMT pervade all modern MMO's including eve. If you are suggesting otherwise, then I suggest that you present some solid evidence in order to prove your point. Else your words are just dust and air. No-one is suggesting otherwise. What people are suggesting is that your inferences and assertions have levels of detail and certainty that is not supported by the data you're able to bring to the table. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:13:00 -
[253] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:My stance is that Bots and RMT pervade all modern MMO's including eve. If you are suggesting otherwise, then I suggest that you present some solid evidence in order to prove your point. Else your words are just dust and air. No-one is suggesting otherwise. What people are suggesting is that your inferences and assertions have levels of detail and certainty that is not supported by the data you're able to bring to the table.
And yet, my inferences and assertion are based upon readily available information present all over the internet. So what are you smoking this evening Tippa? I am "inferring" and "asserting" that all MMO's have this issue to a substantial degree, and so does eve online. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4665
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:20:00 -
[254] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:And yet, my inferences and assertion are based upon readily available information present all over the internet. GǪwhich don't support the level of detail you're claiming.
Quote:I am "inferring" and "asserting" that all MMO's have this issue to a substantial degree, and so does eve online. GǪand you're also making detailed claims about who does what where and about who else has detailed knowledge about this, none of which can be inferred from or asserted on the basis on the information presented. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
282
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:22:00 -
[255] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:I wish Mittani was Putin. As effective as Mittani is at being CSM chairman he's kind of a total dork. Putin is way cooler. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:22:00 -
[256] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:And yet, my inferences and assertion are based upon readily available information present all over the internet. GǪwhich don't support the level of detail you're claiming.
All I can say is work your little fingers across your keyboard. Most other people can navigate google better then you are claiming to be able to. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4665
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:24:00 -
[257] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Most other people can navigate google better then you are claiming to be able to. I don't navigate google, no GÇö I use it to search. This is something you obviously can't do. Otherwise, you wouldn't have such problems providing proof for your assertions (generously assuming, of course, that you're not just making **** up and are desperately trying to hide this fact). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:28:00 -
[258] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Most other people can navigate google better then you are claiming to be able to. I don't navigate google, no GÇö I use it to search. This is something you obviously can't do. Otherwise, you wouldn't have such problems providing proof for your assertions (generously assuming, of course, that you're not just making **** up and are desperately trying to hide this fact).
Weak. So very weak.
Not your best retort, Tippa. Srsly. Are you trying to say that you can't find definitive information regarding RMT and Botting proliferation in all major mmo's with only a basic google search? Because that is what it sounds like you are claiming here? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4666
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:35:00 -
[259] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Are you trying to say that you can't find definitive information regarding RMT and Botting proliferation in all major mmo's with only a basic google search? Because that is what it sounds like you are claiming here? No, I'm saying that you can't find anything that lets you make the kind of detailed statements about who does what where that you have done in this thread.
I'm saying this because, in spite of people asking you to repeatedly, you have completely failed to produce any such information, instead relying on sweeping and general statements that, by their very nature, make such specificity impossible.
No matter how many straw men you draw up; how much you try to move to goal posts; how many red herrings you try to throw our way, this simple fact hasn't changed: you are unable to produce the information needed to make your assertions. I don't have to search for anything because I'm not making the kinds of claims you are. The burden of proof is on you, and you utterly fail to fulfil this requirement.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:40:00 -
[260] - Quote
Tippia wrote:No matter how many straw men you draw up; how much you try to move to goal posts; how many red herrings you try to throw our way, this simple fact hasn't changed: you are unable to produce the information needed to make your assertions. I don't have to search for anything because I'm not making the kinds of claims you are. The burden of proof is on you, and you utterly fail to fulfil this requirement.
If the proof is freaking everywhere, to the point where no amount of hot linking is going to suffice. If you cannot be arsed to type a basic string of words into google, then you are either an imbecile, or more likely, angry about being on the losing side of a debate. You CANNOT make a reasonable stance against 1. RMT and botting is currently prevalent in all MMO's including EVE and 2. That the internet is full of as much evidence as a person could ever want, if only they type a few words into the search engine and read.
Your ego gets in the way, and so you continue to argue your ridiculous vantage point, just for the sake of arguing. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4666
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:46:00 -
[261] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:If the proof is freaking everywhere GǪyou should have no problem providing it. So why can't you? Again, you are making the claim GÇö the burden of proof is on you, not on anyone else. Trying to shift that burden to others and using straw man arguments does not help you in any way.
Look, it's quite simple: all you have to do to win walk away without looking completely silly is to admit to the simple truth that you pulled quite a few of your previous assertions straight from your ass, and that you can, at best, only make very general claims about the state of RMT in EVE. You could also make some (weak) argument about how much of this is tied to botting, but as long as you acknowledge the weakness of the link, that's just fine GÇö epistemological awareness is a good thing, even if it highlights such weaknesses. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Selinate
638
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:51:00 -
[262] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:If the proof is freaking everywhere GǪyou should have no problem providing it. So why can't you? Again, you are making the claim GÇö the burden of proof is on you, not on anyone else. Trying to shift that burden to others and using straw man arguments does not help you in any way. Look, it's quite simple: all you have to do to win walk away without looking completely silly is to admit to the simple truth that you pulled quite a few of your previous assertions straight from your ass, and that you can, at best, only make very general claims about the state of RMT in EVE. You could also make some (weak) argument about how much of this is tied to botting, but as long as you acknowledge the weakness of the link, that's just fine GÇö epistemological awareness is a good thing, even if it highlights such weaknesses.
The floor. It is mopped with Eternal idiotorian. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:51:00 -
[263] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Look, it's quite simple: all you have to do to win walk away without looking completely silly is to admit to the simple truth that.....
That RMT and Bots are not currently prolific in all MMO's and it is not all over the internet? Srsly? Sorry bud, but I am not about to do that. Why are you even arguing this? Do you have something at stake? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:54:00 -
[264] - Quote
Selinate wrote: The floor. It is mopped with Eternal idiotorian.
Only if you agree that RMT and Bots are not currently prolific in all MMO's and that the information is not readily available all over the internet. If you can prove that I happily will concede defeat and use my head as a toilet brush. So lets have that evidence to the contrary?
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
638
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:55:00 -
[265] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote: The floor. It is mopped with Eternal idiotorian.
I don't have evidence, but you don't have any evidence either, ergo I must be correct!
Oh the stupidity! |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:58:00 -
[266] - Quote
Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote: The floor. It is mopped with Eternal idiotorian.
I don't have evidence, but you don't have any evidence either, ergo I must be correct! Oh the stupidity!
**** that noise baby, that is not what I said. You sound like your getting fairly butthurt at this point I hope your having fun because I sure am Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4666
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:58:00 -
[267] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:Look, it's quite simple: all you have to do to walk away without looking completely silly is to admit to the simple truth that you pulled quite a few of your previous assertions straight from your ass, and that you can, at best, only make very general claims about the state of RMT in EVE. You could also make some (weak) argument about how much of this is tied to botting, but as long as you acknowledge the weakness of the link, that's just fine GÇö epistemological awareness is a good thing, even if it highlights such weaknesses. Fixed. Nice straw man; no dice.
If you're going to reinterpret a piece of text, it really helps if you don't have the part you fail to quote properly right above your own post.
If you don't want to make this concession, even after I helped you, then that's your problem GÇö now we all know with certainty that you fabricate stuff to suit your purposes, which puts the rest of your claims (no matter how easily searched they may be) into question.
Quote:Srsly? Sorry bud, but I am not about to do that. Why are you even arguing this? I'm not. You are the only one making that claim and making an argument about it, which coincidentally contradicts your other claims.
Quote:So lets have that evidence to the contrary No evidence to the contrary is needed because 1) you have failed to provide any evidence that needs to be disproved, and 2) you are the only one making the contrary assertion, which means that the burden of proof for both sides now falls on you. Good job.
(Just a friendly tip: this is what happens when you employ straw men with such reckless abandon as you do GÇö you end up having to argue against yourself and/or admit that your argumentation is completely fallacious.) GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Selinate
638
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:02:00 -
[268] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote: The floor. It is mopped with Eternal idiotorian.
I don't have evidence, but you don't have any evidence either, ergo I must be correct! Oh the stupidity! **** that noise baby, that is not what I said. You sound like your getting fairly butthurt at this point I hope your having fun because I sure am
"You sure like to use that butthurt meme for some reason"
*uses butthurt meme*
*pathetic attempt at trolling*
*pathetic attempt to flame*
*pathetic attempt at posting seriously*
I have found a pattern!
Just quit while you're behind. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:03:00 -
[269] - Quote
Keep running around this merry go round Tippa, the more you argue against the orgy of proof at the tip of everyone fingers, readily available to all, regarding MMO's RMT and botting, the less respect I have for you abilities as a debater.
I did have some prior to this, but under just a little scrutiny and resistance you seem to melt at fairly low temperatures. So not so much anymore. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:05:00 -
[270] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:Ronald Ray Gun wrote:WhyTry1 wrote: He rarely agrees with anything, and must have a constant sore throat due to the constant deep throating of goons..
His opinion to me is worthless, and quite frankly i just skip past anything he posts.
Is this alright by you?
I am not here to get friends ( i have many RL ones, I dont need virtual pixel ones) and people to agree with me, this is my opinion, if people dont agree with it then that is their choice.
And you respond to people who don't agree with you by making personal attacks/cheap sexual gags or ignoring them completely. Obviously the concept of a discussion has been lost on you. Why don't you try debating with all the people who are in your thread telling you how stupid you are? Awww cry moar What's the matter. Lost an argument? Made yourself look silly in front of hundreds of people? Can't find anyone who will subscribe to your brand of paranoia and defeatist attitude? Why not make yourself feel better by imagining that another person cares about something you wrote on the forum?
Tears of laughter as you struggle to come to terms with what a democracy is and formulate a coherent argument. I'll be laughing even harder when Goons are elected to the CSM. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:06:00 -
[271] - Quote
Selinate, your just a troll man. Your posts have contributed very little content, even from a flaming standpoint. Your like that crusted piece of turd that is left over after you step in dog ****, that does not wipe off on the sidewalk before you walk inside. So utterly irrelevant, that if you were not so loud no one would even notice your existence.
Your posts do amuse me, but... at the same time, meh. It's like incoherent noise in my direction, it barely makes sense. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4666
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:07:00 -
[272] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Keep running around this merry go round Tippa, the more you argue against the orgy of proof at the tip of everyone fingers GǪwhich you are unable to provide. Is there something wrong with your fingers?
Again, you are making assertions about who does what where, and about who has detailed information about these activities. You claim that there is an orgy of proof for this.
WellGǪ prove it. Why is it so hard?
You see, I'm not running anywhere GÇö I'm just sitting here waiting for you to fulfil your burned of proof. Until you do, you can try to run around the issue as much as you like, but doing so does not get rid of the simple fact that you cannot prove your case. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:09:00 -
[273] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate, your just a troll man. Your posts have contributed very little content, even from a flaming standpoint. Your like that crusted piece of turd that is left over after you step in dog ****, that does not wipe off on the sidewalk before you walk inside. So utterly irrelevant, that if you were not so loud no one would even notice your existence.
This post makes you look intelligent. Never stop. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:11:00 -
[274] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Keep running around this merry go round Tippa, the more you argue against the orgy of proof at the tip of everyone fingers GǪwhich you are unable to provide. Is there something wrong with your fingers?
I have to prove that the internet has mountains and mountains of information referencing RMT, Bots and modern day MMO's? People can be dumb, and dumber in mass, but they are are not quite THIS stupid. Just wow.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:14:00 -
[275] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I have to prove that the internet has mountains and mountains of information referencing RMT, Bots and modern day MMO's? No, you have to prove that the internet has mountains and mountains of information referencing RMT and Bots in specific areas of EVE, belonging to specific groups, and that this is well-known by specific people. Oh, and it must be current or at least reasonably up-to-date.
That, or: all you have to do to walk away without looking completely silly is to admit to the simple truth that you pulled quite a few of your previous assertions straight from your ass, and that you can, at best, only make very general claims about the state of RMT in EVE. You could also make some (weak) argument about how much of this is tied to botting, but as long as you acknowledge the weakness of the link, that's just fine GÇö epistemological awareness is a good thing, even if it highlights such weaknesses. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Selinate
639
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:16:00 -
[276] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate, your just a troll man. Your posts have contributed very little content, even from a flaming standpoint. Your like that crusted piece of turd that is left over after you step in dog ****, that does not wipe off on the sidewalk before you walk inside. So utterly irrelevant, that if you were not so loud no one would even notice your existence.
Your posts do amuse me, but... at the same time, meh. It's like incoherent noise in my direction, it barely makes sense.
The rage from you is hilarious.
Even more hilarious is your consistently pathetic attempts at posting here.
And if my posts don't make any sense to you, then I think you need to look inward. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:18:00 -
[277] - Quote
Ronald Ray Gun wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate, your just a troll man. Your posts have contributed very little content, even from a flaming standpoint. Your like that crusted piece of turd that is left over after you step in dog ****, that does not wipe off on the sidewalk before you walk inside. So utterly irrelevant, that if you were not so loud no one would even notice your existence.
This post makes you look intelligent. Never stop.
I am glad you enjoyed it. I did my best to describe the human excrement that resideds on these forums, for the sole purpose of aggravating other human beings for fear of getting their nerdy asses kicked in Rl. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:23:00 -
[278] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I have to prove that the internet has mountains and mountains of information referencing RMT, Bots and modern day MMO's? No, you have to prove that the internet has mountains and mountains of information r eferencing RMT and Bots in specific areas of EVE, belonging to specific groups, and that this is well-known by specific people. Oh, and it must be current or at least reasonably up-to-date.
No I don't, all MMO's means ALL. Not everyone is going to play your little games, Tippa. You really can't stand losing an argument can you? You have some kind of internet, debate team Narcissism.
They sky is blue, to hell with people who don't want to be bothered with looking up...and that goes double for people who want to insist that people who do look, have to prove that it is in fact blue to everyone else. It does NOT make sense, and I am not going to humor your mentally questionable needs. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
639
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:23:00 -
[279] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Ronald Ray Gun wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate, your just a troll man. Your posts have contributed very little content, even from a flaming standpoint. Your like that crusted piece of turd that is left over after you step in dog ****, that does not wipe off on the sidewalk before you walk inside. So utterly irrelevant, that if you were not so loud no one would even notice your existence.
This post makes you look intelligent. Never stop. I am glad you enjoyed it. I did my best to describe the human excrement that resideds on these forums, for the sole purpose of aggravating other human beings for fear of getting their nerdy asses kicked in Rl.
And so now we're going to go back to basic flaming, and then go directly from there to the assumption that I'm just a troll on these forums and "in fear of getting my nerdy ass kicked in RL". Dreadfully commonplace, these tactics are.
One of the funnier things I find about these forums is that folks like you assume I'm any different in person. I'm not. I have just as prickly a personality when dealing with stupid people in real life as I do on these forums.
Again. Look inward, young moron. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:26:00 -
[280] - Quote
Selinate wrote:One of the funnier things I find about these forums is that folks like you assume I'm any different in person. I'm not. I have just as prickly a personality when dealing with stupid people in real life as I do on these forums.
Did he just admit that he is an ******* in real life too? Win? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
|
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:26:00 -
[281] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Ronald Ray Gun wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate, your just a troll man. Your posts have contributed very little content, even from a flaming standpoint. Your like that crusted piece of turd that is left over after you step in dog ****, that does not wipe off on the sidewalk before you walk inside. So utterly irrelevant, that if you were not so loud no one would even notice your existence.
This post makes you look intelligent. Never stop. I am glad you enjoyed it. I did my best to describe the human excrement that resideds on these forums, for the sole purpose of aggravating other human beings for fear of getting their nerdy asses kicked in Rl. Look at how tough you are.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:27:00 -
[282] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:No I don't, all MMO's means ALL. Yes you do. GÇ£All MMOsGÇ¥ doesn't mean GÇ£specific info about who does what where under the auspices of whom in EVEGÇ¥. You are making a classic fallacy of division, and I'm trying to help you dig yourself out of that hole.
You made the claim; you prove it.
You have failed to provide any evidence, argumentation or reasoning to back up your claim so far.
So: all you have to do to walk away without looking completely silly is to admit to the simple truth that you pulled quite a few of your previous assertions straight from your ass, and that you can, at best, only make very general claims about the state of RMT in EVE. You could also make some (weak) argument about how much of this is tied to botting, but as long as you acknowledge the weakness of the link, that's just fine GÇö epistemological awareness is a good thing, even if it highlights such weaknesses.
Quote:They sky is blue, to hell with people who don't want to be bothered with looking up. The problem is that you are claiming that on the other side of the planet, where I can't look, there is this little cloud that is actually black-on-yellow polka-dot. That would be fantastic, if you could actually prove it. So far, you've been completely unable to.
Oh, and you're quite wrong, by the way: the sky is black. I just checked. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
244
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:27:00 -
[283] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Ronald Ray Gun wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate, your just a troll man. Your posts have contributed very little content, even from a flaming standpoint. Your like that crusted piece of turd that is left over after you step in dog ****, that does not wipe off on the sidewalk before you walk inside. So utterly irrelevant, that if you were not so loud no one would even notice your existence.
This post makes you look intelligent. Never stop. I am glad you enjoyed it. I did my best to describe the human excrement that resideds on these forums, for the sole purpose of aggravating other human beings for fear of getting their nerdy asses kicked in Rl.
Lose the argument? Just employ the classic internet-tough-guy, problem solved! |
Selinate
639
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:29:00 -
[284] - Quote
Ronald Ray Gun wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Ronald Ray Gun wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate, your just a troll man. Your posts have contributed very little content, even from a flaming standpoint. Your like that crusted piece of turd that is left over after you step in dog ****, that does not wipe off on the sidewalk before you walk inside. So utterly irrelevant, that if you were not so loud no one would even notice your existence.
This post makes you look intelligent. Never stop. I am glad you enjoyed it. I did my best to describe the human excrement that resideds on these forums, for the sole purpose of aggravating other human beings for fear of getting their nerdy asses kicked in Rl. Look at how tough you are.
Oh wow, the sarcasm is strong with this one.
*applause* |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:31:00 -
[285] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible. I can't even fix this post because I'm not sure what direction you were trying to take it in, given what you were trying to respond to... Maybe you should just quit while you're... well.... very far behind? Doesn't matter since it was not directed towards you. Open forum. Everyone can respond to the "arguments" anyone else makes. That's the beauty of it. What the hell guy, where have you been my whole space life?
I was right next door to you last spring. Then Mittens ate my Alliance. Free WIDOT... or don't. They seem happy. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Selinate
639
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:39:00 -
[286] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:One of the funnier things I find about these forums is that folks like you assume I'm any different in person. I'm not. I have just as prickly a personality when dealing with stupid people in real life as I do on these forums. Did he just admit that he is an ******* in real life too? Win?
Admit that I tend to be a d!ck to self-entitled people who come around talking like they know everything, when it's obvious they're talking out of their ass, and can't even use the simplest of logic to back any of their claims up in any real discussion?
Noooooo, what kind of terrible person would I be if I were like that. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:39:00 -
[287] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
Now IF you could prove buying votes or threats were involved, you might have a case, BUT that was explicitly condoned in the CSM elections, since this is EVE and HTFU.
So you seriously believe HONESTLY that this does not happen? Seriously? HTFU has nothing to do with this topic whatsoever...
I like Big BUTs and I cannot lie. You other brothers can't deny. When a Rule's not broken an itty bitty inch, and corruption's put in its place I get EVE'd, wanna pull out my rules.
Point being that you missed that CAPSLOCKED "BUT" in my post. I'm fairly certain activity that would be defined in the USA as electoral fraud occurred. Now that we agree that that activity occurred, the onus is on you to show that it is disallowed by the rules of the CSM Elections (not the rules of the USA). Since I doubt you'll actually do that, I'll offer what would be my rebuttal;
Most activities that would be defined in the USA as electoral fraud were EXPLICITLY Condoned BY CCP in the last CSM election. This included threats (in game only ofc), Bribery, and other sorts of coercion.
tl;dr I seriously believe HONESTLY that this does happen. Seriously. It's also EXPLICITLY ALLOWED. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:49:00 -
[288] - Quote
[quote=Tippia]Words/quote]
It is always interesting (or maybe sad and disturbing) to see how far someone will go just so they can feel like they have won. You are manipulating words skillfully I will give you that Tippa, but I will continue to return with basic, uncorrupted evidence available to all parties.
I will not be baited into a transparent debate team trap of manipulative wording. I will not be told that the sky is not blue, and entertain that stupidity.
And I do not have to accept that I need to run google searches for other free thinking human beings, in order to guide them to commonly available information. You lose. deal with it. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:55:00 -
[289] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:No matter how many straw men you draw up; how much you try to move to goal posts; how many red herrings you try to throw our way, this simple fact hasn't changed: you are unable to produce the information needed to make your assertions. I don't have to search for anything because I'm not making the kinds of claims you are. The burden of proof is on you, and you utterly fail to fulfil this requirement.
If the proof is freaking everywhere, to the point where no amount of hot linking is going to suffice. If you cannot be arsed to type a basic string of words into google, then you are either an imbecile, or more likely, angry about being on the losing side of a debate. You CANNOT make a reasonable stance against 1. RMT and botting is currently prevalent in all MMO's including EVE and 2. That the internet is full of as much evidence as a person could ever want, if only they type a few words into the search engine and read. Your ego gets in the way, and so you continue to argue your ridiculous vantage point, just for the sake of arguing.
I am asking for ONE link. Or more than one link. So long as the combination shows the links that you claim exist. For your convenience, I'll list your claims from smallest to largest (conceptually): 1) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of Botting in RED.L Space (a gimme, if you read my posts) 2) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of RMT in RED.L Space (harder, cause it's not remotely true) 3) I personally have or should have specific knowledge that RED.L tolerates botting/RMT (if you take the gimme in 1, this is gonna be tough) 4) Botting Occurs in the Drone Region Federation 5) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating Botting 6) RMT Occurs in the Drone Region Federation 7) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating RMT 8) All of 4-7 are more true of the Drone Region Federation than of ANY OTHER PLACE in EVE (this is gonna be a bitch to prove, I mean this requires evidence from literally every other place in EVE) 9) Any or all of 4-7 are true of the Drone Region Federation to a concentrated enough extent that they can be accurately called "Bot/RMT Central" (The Weaker version of 8, and thus a freebie if you prove 8) 10) RED.L is a part of the Drone Region Federation (To my knowledge, RA/RED.L is part of the Eastern Russian Federation, distinct from the Drone Region Federation)
Looks like with all those claims you left quite a few unsupported allegations.
OR
You can admit that you were overly specific and water your claim down to "Bots Exist in EVE" and "RMT Exists in EVE," since I think there's plenty of evidence to support those claims (though you haven't provided any). If you want to provide a bit more evidence you might be able to add something like "A large amount of ISK transferred through RMT is generated by Bots" but anything more substantial is gonna take a good bit of work. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:59:00 -
[290] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You lose. It happens. Deal with it. Giving up already? |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:59:00 -
[291] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:It is always interesting (or maybe sad and disturbing) to see how far someone will go just so they can feel like they have won. Well, I gave you a way out so if you're so disturbed by how far you're going, you could always take that option and win not look silly. But since you are so persistent in wanting to feel like you've won, I suppose we have to keep going.
Again, all you have to do to walk away without looking completely silly is to admit to the simple truth that you pulled quite a few of your previous assertions straight from your ass, and that you can, at best, only make very general claims about the state of RMT in EVE. You could also make some (weak) argument about how much of this is tied to botting, but as long as you acknowledge the weakness of the link, that's just fine GÇö epistemological awareness is a good thing, even if it highlights such weaknesses.
Quote:You are manipulating words skillfully Well, better than your attempts to put words into other people's mouths, that's for sure. That's not so much manipulation as it is just a standard fallacy, though, so the skill level required to do better than that isn't all that high.
Quote:I will not be baited into a transparent debate team trap of manipulative wording. Good thing that you're the only one doing that, then. I'm merely asking you to back up your claims about the level of detail that can be inferred from the information you've (supposedly) dug up. This should be a trivial task, yet you apparently cannot do it.
Quote:I will not be told that the sky is not blue, and entertain that stupidity. GǪand yet, the sky is actually black right now (with some white in it, and even some orange).
Quote:And I do not have to accept that I need to run google searches for other free thinking human beings Actually, you do have to accept it if you don't want to commit another fallacy. The burden of proof is on you GÇö if you can't be arsed to fulfil that little onus (especially not if the information is as copious and as easily accessible as you say it is), then that just means you have nothing to stand on. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:07:00 -
[292] - Quote
That is an aweful lot of bullshit Tippa.
Let me put back into perspective what is being debated here for all to see. RMT and bottings are commonplace in all MMO's, including EVE Online, and the information is pertaining to these facts are readily available. The only way that you can prove that said information is readily available is going and performing a simple google search. That is all that is required of me.
If you say no...
Then the burden of proof is now on YOU to prove otherwise, because now you are taking stance, staking a claim and committing yourself to an argument. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:11:00 -
[293] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:That is an aweful lot of bullshit Tippa.
Let me put back into perspective what is being debated here for all to see. RMT and bottings are commonplace in all MMO's, including EVE Online, and the information is pertaining to these facts are readily available. The only way that you can prove that said information is readily available is going and performing a simple google search. That is all that is required of me.
If you say no...
Then the burden of proof is now on YOU to prove otherwise, because now you are taking stance, staking a claim and committing yourself to an argument.
...
Tippia wrote:So: all you have to do to walk away without looking completely silly is to admit to the simple truth that you pulled quite a few of your previous assertions straight from your ass, and that you can, at best, only make very general claims about the state of RMT in EVE. You could also make some (weak) argument about how much of this is tied to botting, but as long as you acknowledge the weakness of the link, that's just fine GÇö epistemological awareness is a good thing, even if it highlights such weaknesses.
General claim about RMT in EvE? Check. General claim about Botting in EvE? Check. No Claim about a link between the two? Check.
Now all you need Eternum is to admit that you overstepped your evidence earlier and we're done. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:15:00 -
[294] - Quote
Seriously. We only arrived at this level of contentious argument because you made SPECIFIC unsupported claims (and made a personal attack on me).
There's Certainly Botting in EvE. I saw it all the time when I mined in HiSec years ago.
There's Certainly RMT in EvE. There are dozens of websites promoting it, and doing business.
The rest of the specific claims were the issue. And that's all you were making until this last page. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:16:00 -
[295] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Let me put back into perspective what is being debated here for all to see. RMT and bottings are commonplace in all MMO's, including EVE Online, and the information is pertaining to these facts are readily available. The only way that you can prove that said information is readily available, is by going and performing a simple google search. That is all that is required of me. Then your requirements are insufficient for what is being debated.
You are making specific claims that cannot be inferred from the information available. As a result, far more information that what you have enumerated is required of you.
Quote:Then the burden of proof is now on YOU to prove otherwise GǪexcept that no-one is disputing those facts, only the detailed inferences you make from them based on absolutely nothing substantial whatsoever. You are the only one who has ever claimed the opposite, and you did it in a failed attempt to create a straw man similar to the one you just made.
So, again: the burden of proof is on you to show what information tells us about who is doing what where under the auspices of whom. You have failed to provide any such proof or information.
RubyPorto drew up a very nice list of the things you have still failed to prove, even after being asked many many times, and even after you claiming that it was insanely easy to get hold of the information that would prove it. So I suggest you actually start going through that list and fill in the gaps.
GǪthat, or admit that you did indeed pull stuff out of your nether regions that had no factual basis whatsoever. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:16:00 -
[296] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
General claim about RMT in EvE? Check. General claim about Botting in EvE? Check. No Claim about a link between the two? Check..
Just to be clear, does this statement mean that you do not see a connection between bots and RMT? Because everyone that I have every spoken to sees a clear and obvious connection. Clarify?
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:18:00 -
[297] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Totally false.
Redirecting my stance, and manipulating my words isn't going to work here. Those are your words, your inference, your opinions and not mine. Try again? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:18:00 -
[298] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Just to be clear, does this statement mean that you do not see a connection between bots and RMT? Because everyone that I have every spoken to sees a clear and obvious connection. Clarify? No, the statement means that you're just one step away from no longer being hounded by us for making inferences that are not supported by the information you cite.
Quote:Redirecting my stance, and manipulating my words isn't going to work here. Those are your words, your inference, your opinions and not mine. Good thing I'm not doing any of that, then. I'm simply asking you to back your specific claims claims up and not over-reaching your conclusion based on lacking and ill-suited information. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:20:00 -
[299] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Just to be clear, does this statement mean that you do not see a connection between bots and RMT? Because everyone that I have every spoken to sees a clear and obvious connection. Clarify? No, the statement means that you're just one step away from no longer being hounded by us for making inferences that are not supported by the information you cite.
I could make an "Accidentally posted with your alt joke" here but meh. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:21:00 -
[300] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I could make an "Accidentally posted with your alt joke" here but meh. Well, that would be a nice addition to your list of fallacies, and would help you avoid providing the information required of you for yet another round of posts.
So, again: spit up the information that supports your detailed claims about who does what where (etc), or admit that you pulled that GÇ£knowledgeGÇ¥ from your ass. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:22:00 -
[301] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote: RMT and botting are commonplace in all MMO's, including EVE Online, and the information pertaining to these facts are readily available to all. The only way that you can prove that said information is readily available, is by going and performing a simple google search and seeing if it is fact true. That statement is all that is required of me. If I offer my own google searches it could be argued that I would be corrupting the experiment and altering the outcome, by not allowing the reader to search for their own version of "easy to access".
This.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:23:00 -
[302] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:This. GǪdoes not provide any information that supports your detailed claims.
Please provide information that does so or admit that you made it all up.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
435
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:27:00 -
[303] - Quote
Then you are not reading.
The only way to prove that something is truly easily and readily available to the public, is for the reader to go look for themselves, where I said the information was, and decide for themselves. I cannot provide links and assume that same stance and hold true to it's integrity.
Google. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Disdaine
235
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:34:00 -
[304] - Quote
So I stumbled across a few eve exploit sites.
Side by side with all the mining bots, courier bots, mission bots, market bots, salvaging and looting bots,warp to zero autopilot hacks, scan probe hacks, d-scan hacks, local hacks, and fingerprint randomizers, were a whole lot of threads offering to sell hundreds of billions of isk for real money.
Go figure.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:36:00 -
[305] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Then you are not reading. What in what you just posted answered or addressed any of the points in RubyPorto's list?
Quote:The only way to prove that something is truly easily and readily available to the public GǪbut that's not what you're supposed to prove. You're supposed to prove the detailed claims you made about who does what where under the auspices of whom. Since you made those claims, the burden of proof is on you, and no matter how much you try to avoid the issue, move the goalposts, employ straw men, or generally fallacy:ing your way out of the hole you've dug for yourself, this annoying fact remains.
You made the claim GÇö you prove it. You have failed spectacularly to do so, so far.
Quote:I cannot provide links and assume that same stance and hold true to it's integrity. You can provide links that you feel support your claims and argue why you feel they support it. Or, more accurately, you can't, as you have proved quite consistently over the last couple of pages.
This is why we suggest that you retract those claims and settle for something far more general, which you have actually provided a tiiiiiny smidgen of supporting information about (but which could still use some additional reinforcement).
Quote:P.S. if people don't want to, then they don't want to. Sure, but then they also allow anyone to completely dismiss their claims without further ado. If you don't want to support your claims, they are worthless GÇö they would, indeed, just be a whole lot of hot air. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
436
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:37:00 -
[306] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:So I stumbled across a few eve exploit sites.
Side by side with all the mining bots, courier bots, mission bots, market bots, salvaging and looting bots,warp to zero autopilot hacks, scan probe hacks, d-scan hacks, local hacks, and fingerprint randomizers, were a whole lot of threads offering to sell hundreds of billions of isk for real money.
Go figure.
Well would you go look at that, Tippa. Like I said, deal with it. everyone loses sometimes.
Edited: More words... taken out of context. what a surprise
Look, google, read and decide. That is all. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:38:00 -
[307] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Well would you go look at that, Tippa. Yes? That doesn't offer any information that supports your detailed claims. It just support your far more general claim, which GÇö if you had actually paid any attention GÇö no-one is really questioning (in spite of you not providing much in the way of proof to support it). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
436
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:39:00 -
[308] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Well would you go look at that, Tippa. Yes? That doesn't offer any information that supports your detailed claims. It just support your far more general claim, which GÇö if you had actually paid any attention GÇö no-one is really questioning (in spite of you not providing much in the way of proof to support it).
You are really reaching now man.
P.S. If you want the last word to make yourself feel better go ahead and take it. I am tired. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:40:00 -
[309] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Disdaine wrote:So I stumbled across a few eve exploit sites.
Side by side with all the mining bots, courier bots, mission bots, market bots, salvaging and looting bots,warp to zero autopilot hacks, scan probe hacks, d-scan hacks, local hacks, and fingerprint randomizers, were a whole lot of threads offering to sell hundreds of billions of isk for real money.
Go figure.
Well would you go look at that, Tippa. Like I said, deal with it. everyone loses sometimes.
There we go, some evidence of a link between *Some* RMT and *Some* botting. Still not evidence of those 10 Very Specific claims you made earlier and seem to have forgotten. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
436
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:42:00 -
[310] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
General claim about RMT in EvE? Check. General claim about Botting in EvE? Check. No Claim about a link between the two? Check..
Just to be clear, does this statement mean that you do not see a connection between bots and RMT? Because everyone that I have every spoken to sees a clear and obvious connection. Clarify?
This was directed towards you Ruby. Maybe you accidentally overlooked it? Can you please comment? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:42:00 -
[311] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You are really reaching now man. Am I?
Let's seeGǪ
Quote:Side by side with all the mining bots, courier bots, mission bots, market bots, salvaging and looting bots,warp to zero autopilot hacks, scan probe hacks, d-scan hacks, local hacks, and fingerprint randomizers, were a whole lot of threads offering to sell hundreds of billions of isk for real money. Mentions of EVE regions: 0. Mentions of EVE corps: 0. Mentions of EVE alliances: 0. Mentions of EVE players: 0. Mentions of any of the above, specifically, using bots: 0. Mentions of any connections between any of the above: 0.
No, that's not stretching it. The information provided does not support your detailed claims.
Again: why won't you just make it easy on yourself and admit that you over-reached in your conclusions? We all know it's true GÇö you definitely know it, and your total failure to provide anything that even remotely supports it has long since convinced everyone else.
And no, I did not quote out of context: you're just trying to throw out an ocean worth of red herrings to distract from the fact that you keep avoiding the burden of proof you've created for yourself. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
436
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:43:00 -
[312] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: RMT and botting are commonplace in all MMO's, including EVE Online, and the information pertaining to these facts are readily available to all. The only way that you can prove that said information is readily available, is by going and performing a simple google search and seeing if it is fact true. That statement is all that is required of me. If I offer my own google searches it could be argued that I would be corrupting the experiment and altering the outcome, by not allowing the reader to search for their own version of "easy to access". This.
Again for Tippa. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
639
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:45:00 -
[313] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: RMT and botting are commonplace in all MMO's, including EVE Online, and the information pertaining to these facts are readily available to all. The only way that you can prove that said information is readily available, is by going and performing a simple google search and seeing if it is fact true. That statement is all that is required of me. If I offer my own google searches it could be argued that I would be corrupting the experiment and altering the outcome, by not allowing the reader to search for their own version of "easy to access". This. Again for Tippa.
"All MMOS have botting, and there are RMT sites online, therefore DRF space is botting central, and has a rampant bot problem, and the residents of DRF all participate in RMT".
Idiot. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:46:00 -
[314] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Again for Tippa. GǪstill doesn't provide any information to support your detailed claims, no matter how many times you repost it. It simply avoids the issue completely.
You have to post something completely different for it to have a chance to contain such information.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
436
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:47:00 -
[315] - Quote
Selinate wrote: "All MMOS have botting, and there are RMT sites online, therefore DRF space is botting central, and has a rampant bot problem, and the residents of DRF all participate in RMT".
Idiot.
YOUR words, your rendition and your post... not mine. So what does that make you?
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:47:00 -
[316] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
General claim about RMT in EvE? Check. General claim about Botting in EvE? Check. No Claim about a link between the two? Check..
Just to be clear, does this statement mean that you do not see a connection between bots and RMT? Because everyone that I have every spoken to sees a clear and obvious connection. Clarify? This was directed towards you Ruby. Maybe you accidentally overlooked it?
At that time, no evidence of such had been provided. That I, independent of this discussion, may have some knowledge that some RMT and some botting may be connected is irrelevant.
But yeah, I'll grant the following, cause I'm feeling generous. EvE has some RMT activities. (I've seen the websites) EvE has some botting activities (From experience in Hisec, and some LoLmails since. Like the Nyx killmail that had nothing but Rats killing it [AAA Citizens, I believe]) Some RMT and Some Botting are probably connected.
Now it's your turn to, logically and with evidence to back up each step, show that your 10 specific assertions are true, or retract them. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
436
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:47:00 -
[317] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote: The only way to prove that something is truly easily and readily available to the public, is for the reader to go look for themselves, where I said the information was, and decide for themselves. I cannot provide links and assume that same stance and hold true to it's integrity.
Google. .
well then Tippa I must again remind you of this, I guess? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
639
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:48:00 -
[318] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote: "All MMOS have botting, and there are RMT sites online, therefore DRF space is botting central, and has a rampant bot problem, and the residents of DRF all participate in RMT".
Idiot.
YOUR words, your rendition and your post... not mine. So what does that make you?
No, that is exactly what you have been saying in the majority of your posts. It definitely makes you an idiot.
A raging idiot in fact.
A inconceivable idiot maybe?
Maybe just an idiot. At least I'm definitely certain of that. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:49:00 -
[319] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:YOUR words, your rendition and your post... not mine. So what does that make you? No, that is pretty much exactly the (incoherent and unproven) inference you've made. He's quoting it to remind you of it and to illustrate how it does not hold together without any proof backing it up GÇö proof that you have failed to provide (and it is indeed you who has to provide it because it was you who made the original claim).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
33
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:52:00 -
[320] - Quote
The biggest failure is the lack of a serious candidate. If someone truly wanted to represent the "majority" of players, there are tools to promote yourself but it requires hard work and dedication. It requires a strong agenda that represents what most people want in this game. If one can get the collective votes of 75% of Caldari highsec, you can bet they will be elected on the CSM. However, no true highsec player cares enough about the game to really become a CSM member, since the qualities described above represent the most hardcore EVE players found predominantly in 0.0 alliances.
It seems the majority of EVE players (highsec) need to accept the fact they do not care enough about the real game to have a say in the CSM. |
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:53:00 -
[321] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: The only way to prove that something is truly easily and readily available to the public, is for the reader to go look for themselves, where I said the information was, and decide for themselves. I cannot provide links and assume that same stance and hold true to it's integrity.
Google. .
well then Tippa I must again remind you of this, I guess?
Then Link the google search you used. Seriously.
The person making the positive argument has the burden to prove that argument to some standard. The person taking the negative position is free to sit on their hands until the person making the positive argument meets that standard. That's how it works EVERYWHERE. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
436
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:54:00 -
[322] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
At that time, no evidence of such had been provided. That I, independent of this discussion, may have some knowledge that some RMT and some botting may be connected is irrelevant.
But yeah, I'll grant the following, cause I'm feeling generous. EvE has some RMT activities. (I've seen the websites) EvE has some botting activities (From experience in Hisec, and some LoLmails since. Like the Nyx killmail that had nothing but Rats killing it [AAA Citizens, I believe]) Some RMT and Some Botting are probably connected.
Now it's your turn to, logically and with evidence to back up each step, show that your 10 specific assertions are true, or retract them.
Thankyou ruby, I wish I could have more intelligent debates on these forums. Saying that the drone regions is botting central was a bit over stated (and kind of 2 years ago). At this juncture all regions are just as likely to be in equal running. You say that you have not encountered much botting, and I can buy that because I can fly through detorid and catch and not see anything for several jumps in every direction.
But that does not mean that they are not around. They are getting smarter, as are the RMT empires that utilize them. That is probably why you are not seeing them. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:55:00 -
[323] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Saying that the drone regions is botting central was a bit over stated (and kind of 2 years ago). See? That wasn't so hard, now was it? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:57:00 -
[324] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
At that time, no evidence of such had been provided. That I, independent of this discussion, may have some knowledge that some RMT and some botting may be connected is irrelevant.
But yeah, I'll grant the following, cause I'm feeling generous. EvE has some RMT activities. (I've seen the websites) EvE has some botting activities (From experience in Hisec, and some LoLmails since. Like the Nyx killmail that had nothing but Rats killing it [AAA Citizens, I believe]) Some RMT and Some Botting are probably connected.
Now it's your turn to, logically and with evidence to back up each step, show that your 10 specific assertions are true, or retract them.
Thankyou ruby, I wish I could have more intelligent debates on these forums. Saying that the drone regions is botting central was a bit over stated (and kind of 2 years ago). At this juncture all regions are just as likely to be in equal running. You say that you have not encountered much botting, and I can buy that because I can fly through detorid and catch and not see anything for several jumps in every direction. But that does not mean that they are not around. They are getting smarter, as are the RMT empires that utilize them. That is probably why you are not seeing them.
Hey, you're almost there. You got 1 of the 10 assertions retracted (and almost a second), and there's only a little egg on your face.
But then you go and make a brand new one. That there are "RMT Empires." So where is your evidence of so-called "RMT Empires"?
The warm kitty has gotten up from my lap, so I am no longer feeling generous.
EDIT: Missed your comment on intelligent debates on the first pass.
No. You don't get to use that phrase. Not after you spent 24 hours refusing to provide the merest shred of evidence. And you spent most of that time calling Tippia and I idiots while doing so. And now when I concede points that have NOTHING to do with your original claims, you call it Intelligent debate? Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
436
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:57:00 -
[325] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: The only way to prove that something is truly easily and readily available to the public, is for the reader to go look for themselves, where I said the information was, and decide for themselves. I cannot provide links and assume that same stance and hold true to it's integrity.
Google. .
well then Tippa I must again remind you of this, I guess? Then Link the google search you used. Seriously. The person making the positive argument has the burden to prove that argument to some standard. The person taking the negative position is free to sit on their hands until the person making the positive argument meets that standard. That's how it works EVERYWHERE.
Murky logic with regards to "commonly and easily available to all via google". If I guide the hand then it ceases to be both commonly and easily available. Only the reader can decide for themselves. If someone has a negative stance with regards to this, they must now prove that said information is nor easy nor commonly available.
I have been at this for two hours, and Tippa has finally shut up for 15 min I think I am done here. Google or don't, in the end no one will care. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 03:02:00 -
[326] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: The only way to prove that something is truly easily and readily available to the public, is for the reader to go look for themselves, where I said the information was, and decide for themselves. I cannot provide links and assume that same stance and hold true to it's integrity.
Google. .
well then Tippa I must again remind you of this, I guess? Then Link the google search you used. Seriously. The person making the positive argument has the burden to prove that argument to some standard. The person taking the negative position is free to sit on their hands until the person making the positive argument meets that standard. That's how it works EVERYWHERE. Murky logic with regards to "commonly and easily available to all via google". If I guide the hand then it ceases to be both commonly and easily available. Only the reader can decide for themselves. If someone has a negative stance with regards to this, they must now prove that said information is nor easy nor commonly available. I have been at this for two hours, and Tippa has finally shut up for 15 min I think I am done here. Google or don't, in the end no one will care.
Your argument wasn't that it was commonly and easily available, it was that it was evidence ON POINT. That requires you to serve that evidence up on a silver platter and then prove that it is on point.
If your argument *was* simply that x information is commonly and easily accessible, you would be required to serve up the evidence, explain how you found it, and then explain how your methods exemplify what is common and easy to access. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4667
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 03:03:00 -
[327] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:If I guide the hand then it ceases to be both commonly and easily available. GǪwhich is entirely irrelevant since that is not the topic of debate. What matters is that you can provide things that support the parts of your claims that cannot be inferred from the more general information.
Quote:If someone has a negative stance with regards to this, they must now prove that said information is nor easy nor commonly available. No, because that's still not the topic for debate: if someone has a negative stance, they must then provide proof, argument, or reasons why the sources that support your detailed claims are in some way false or that you have misunderstood them.
You keep arguing a case that was never made GÇö you're still diving head-long off the straw-man cliff.
The issue of what is and isn't commonly or easily available was never in question. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
436
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 03:07:00 -
[328] - Quote
Jesus Christ dude
Imagine a world where people will argue against what pops up after you google "RMT MMOs" "MMo Bots" "MMORPG's and RMT" or any other variation that pops into your head. Give me a break.
RMT MMO's brought up About 2,200,000 results (0.23 seconds) Do your own homework and read.
Peace out. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 03:11:00 -
[329] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Jesus Christ dude Imagine a world where people will argue against what pops up after you google "RMT MMOs" "MMo Bots" "MMORPG's and RMT" or any other variation that pops into your head. Give me a break. RMT MMO's brought up About 2,200,000 results (0.23 seconds) Do your own homework and read. Peace out.
Imagine a world where nobody in middle school learns how to properly cite sources.
Praytell, what City or at least County are you from? so that I may never hire from that area.
EDIT: Neither Tippia nor I have made an argument yet. We have just been telling you to cite your goddamn sources. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4668
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 03:14:00 -
[330] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RMT MMO's brought up About 2,200,000 results (0.23 seconds) GǪand that is of exactly zero relevance. What matters is whether or not you can find something among all those results that support your detailed claims about who does what where.
The burden of proof for this claim is on you, not on anyone else, and it doesn't matter one whit how much you would like for others to do the work for you. They're not obliged to lift a finger to support your claims GÇö you are.
Granted, you've already admitted that you do not, indeed, have access to any such information and that your assertions aren't really based on any kind of solid evidence. That was really all anyone asked.
Quote:But that won't stop me from smiling smug in the afterglow of your sweet sweet faceplant. What faceplant? You finally agreeing with me? That's some odd definition of GǣfaceplantGǥ you're using thereGǪ You still seem to think that ther argument was about something completely irrelevant, when all it was was a matter of you proving your assertions. You admitted that you couldn't.
My agenda is clear as day: provide proof for your assertions or retract them. You chose the latter. Good for you. I won the instant you typed the words GÇ£Saying that the drone regions is botting central was a bit over stated (and kind of 2 years ago).GÇ¥ Thank you very much.
Oh andGǪQuote:It is for the reader who takes the time to google and decide for themselves. GǪno. If the reader googles and finds out for himself, you still haven't provided any proof to support your claims, so they are still open to summary dismissal until any such proof has actually been presented. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
440
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 03:32:00 -
[331] - Quote
You got problems Tippia LOL
I guess partial quotes taken out of context can be made to look like anything? Well, I am sure that it make you feel better. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 03:38:00 -
[332] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You got problems Tippia LOL
I guess partial quotes taken out of context can be made to look like anything? Well, I am sure that it make you feel better.
None of those had any context of substance pruned.
They're a pretty decent reflection of what you said. And as per usual, Tippia took you apart like Ali v Foreman. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
440
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 03:43:00 -
[333] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:You got problems Tippia LOL
I guess partial quotes taken out of context can be made to look like anything? Well, I am sure that it make you feel better. None of those had any context of substance pruned. They're a pretty decent reflection of what you said. And as per usual, Tippia took you apart like Ali v Foreman.
And if you bothered to go back and reread said post (though I don't know why someone would want to) you would find that your statement is untrue. I don't really feel like clarifying, so whatever. Go back and read or don't. No one cares.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4668
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 03:52:00 -
[334] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I guess partial quotes taken out of context can be made to look like anything? Probably. In particular, it can be made to look like a pointer to show the context of my answer.
By the way, you do understand that the only way for you to GÇ£winGÇ¥ was to never post, right? If you retracted your claim, I got what I wanted; if you provided the proof, I got what I wanted; if you just kept posting, you'd expose yourself as a troll (which isn't exactly what I wanted, but it would be the opposite of a GÇ£winGÇ¥ for you).
Quote:I don't really feel like clarifying, so whatever. And that is why you lost before you ever started. This feeling of yours ensures that you will never be able to make any kind of useful claim and will let people (rightly) dismiss your assertions out of hand. It would serve you well in the future to shed this feeling because it will never help you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 03:56:00 -
[335] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:You got problems Tippia LOL
I guess partial quotes taken out of context can be made to look like anything? Well, I am sure that it make you feel better. None of those had any context of substance pruned. They're a pretty decent reflection of what you said. And as per usual, Tippia took you apart like Ali v Foreman. And if you bothered to go back and reread said post (though I don't know why someone would want to) you would find that your statement is untrue. I don't really feel like clarifying, so whatever. Go back and read or don't. No one cares.
Look, you either needed to retract your claims or prove them. The Post Tippia refers to is tangential at best (though you keep bringing it up), and doesn't have much else of substance.
For your convenience, I'll list them again. 1) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of Botting in RED.L Space (a gimme, if you read my posts) 2) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of RMT in RED.L Space (harder, cause it's not remotely true) 3) I personally have or should have specific knowledge that RED.L tolerates botting/RMT (if you take the gimme in 1, this is gonna be tough) 4) Botting Occurs in the Drone Region Federation 5) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating Botting 6) RMT Occurs in the Drone Region Federation 7) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating RMT 8) All of 4-7 are more true of the Drone Region Federation than of ANY OTHER PLACE in EVE (this is gonna be a ***** to prove, I mean this requires evidence from literally every other place in EVE) [RETRACTED] 9) Any or all of 4-7 are true of the Drone Region Federation to a concentrated enough extent that they can be accurately called "Bot/RMT Central" (The Weaker version of 8, and thus a freebie if you prove 8) [RETRACTED] 10) RED.L is a part of the Drone Region Federation (To my knowledge, RA/RED.L is part of the Eastern Russian Federation, distinct from the Drone Region Federation)
You have dealt with 2 of your claims from earlier (You Retracted them). You now need to deal with the other 8! You have wandered close to retracting 2 others, but since they deal with me personally, I'd like you to clearly prove or retract them. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
441
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 04:05:00 -
[336] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I guess partial quotes taken out of context can be made to look like anything? Probably. In particular, it can be made to look like a pointer to show the context of my answer. By the way, you do understand that the only way for you to GÇ£winGÇ¥ was to never post, right? If you retracted your claim, I got what I wanted; if you provided the proof, I got what I wanted; if you just kept posting, you'd expose yourself as a troll (which isn't exactly what I wanted, but it would be the opposite of a GÇ£winGÇ¥ for you). Quote:I don't really feel like clarifying, so whatever. And that is why you lost before you ever started. This feeling of yours ensures that you will never be able to make any kind of useful claim and will let people (rightly) dismiss your assertions out of hand. It would serve you well in the future to shed this feeling because it will never help you.
And there we have it. You did not say that you wanted truth, you just wanted to win an argument. What I wanted was for you to come out and say what you just said, so I thank you. You have made my evening. When debate becomes an endeavor of word games intended to fuel and preserve ones ego, it ceases to be useful. It is the hardest thing to prove, because the opponent almost never comes out and admits what you just admitted.
My interest here was to see how far I could push you, and to see how far you would go. You preformed nicely, and I am sure that after this post you will still feel the need to get the last word in.
I do not choose to debate to win, I choose to debate to collectively find a greater truth then what I can attain on my own. That is the purpose for communing with other minds. That gets lost, all to often, and FAR to often on these garbage gaming forums. I poke and prod you and speak of smug smiles to egg you on, and earn your indignation at the very least, and your on going contempt at best. I do this because I want to see you act not for truth, but to win. Why do I do this? I am not sure. But I think it helps clarity my suspicions of what motivates people such as yourself.
Now I really am happy, and you have given me all that I wanted.
Enjoy your narcissism, I hope at least it has earned you allot of money in RL, like say a doctor or something. Me, I will keep debating for the sake of finding and sharing a truth. I am not interested in asserting myself as superior over my fellow man, mostly because I am secure in my own mind and in my own existence. I wonder if you can say the same thing about yourself? If you can't accept defeat on a gaming forum, well, your kind of screwed in RL TBH. I bow out, you have won as you intended too.
But I got what I wanted too, so I guess we both win. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 04:10:00 -
[337] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I guess partial quotes taken out of context can be made to look like anything? Probably. In particular, it can be made to look like a pointer to show the context of my answer. By the way, you do understand that the only way for you to GÇ£winGÇ¥ was to never post, right? If you retracted your claim, I got what I wanted; if you provided the proof, I got what I wanted; if you just kept posting, you'd expose yourself as a troll (which isn't exactly what I wanted, but it would be the opposite of a GÇ£winGÇ¥ for you). Quote:I don't really feel like clarifying, so whatever. And that is why you lost before you ever started. This feeling of yours ensures that you will never be able to make any kind of useful claim and will let people (rightly) dismiss your assertions out of hand. It would serve you well in the future to shed this feeling because it will never help you. And there we have it. You did not say that you wanted truth, you just wanted to win an argument. What I wanted was for you to come out and say what you just said, so I thank you. You have made my evening. When debate becomes an endeavor of word games intended to fuel and preserve ones ego, it ceases to be useful. It is the hardest thing to prove, because the opponent almost never comes out and admits what you just admitted. My interest here was to see how far I could push you, and to see how far you would go. You preformed nicely, and I am sure that after this post you will still feel the need to get the last word in. I do not choose to debate to win, I choose to debate to collectively find a greater truth then what I can attain on my own. That is the purpose for communing with other minds. That gets lost, all to often, and FAR to often on these garbage gaming forums. I poke and prod you and speak of smug smiles to egg you on, and earn your indignation at the very least, and your on going contempt at best. I do this because I want to see you act not for truth, but to win. Why do I do this? I am not sure. But I think it helps clarity my suspicions of what motivates people such as yourself. Now I really am happy, and you have given me all that I wanted. Enjoy your narcissism, I hope at least it has earned you allot of money in RL, like say a doctor or something. Me, I will keep debating for the sake of finding and sharing a truth. I am not interested in asserting myself as superior over my fellow man, mostly because I am secure in my own mind and in my own existence. I wonder if you can say the same thing about yourself? If you can't accept defeat on a gaming forum, well, your kind of screwed in RL TBH. I bow out, you have won as you intended too. But I got what I wanted too, so I guess we both win.
From your posts, you do not debate at all. Debate involves evidence and reasoned conclusions based on that evidence. You seem to be confusing semi-coherent yelling with debate. Had you at any point provided evidence to back your claims, you would have forced Tippia and I to take some sort of stand (possibly in agreement with you). But you didn't, so we didn't. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
441
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 04:17:00 -
[338] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
From your posts, you do not debate at all. Debate involves evidence and reasoned conclusions based on that evidence. You seem to be confusing semi-coherent yelling with debate. Had you at any point provided evidence to back your claims, you would have forced Tippia and I to take some sort of stand (possibly in agreement with you). But you didn't, so we didn't.
And you confuse a legitimate sharing and/or grappling of ideas, for a carefully orchestrated manipulation of language and terms in order to achieve personal victory. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Selinate
639
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 04:24:00 -
[339] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
From your posts, you do not debate at all. Debate involves evidence and reasoned conclusions based on that evidence. You seem to be confusing semi-coherent yelling with debate. Had you at any point provided evidence to back your claims, you would have forced Tippia and I to take some sort of stand (possibly in agreement with you). But you didn't, so we didn't.
And you confuse a legitimate sharing and/or grappling of ideas, for a carefully orchestrated manipulation of language and terms in order to achieve personal victory.
Manipulation of language? Tippia quoted you directly in every post. There was no manipulation of language.
Me, personally, I've had better things to do than argue with some idiot for the last hour or 2. There's no point in arguing with a wall (a wall with particularly stupid comments written all over it, that is).
But you believe whatever you want.... or grow up. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1336
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 04:25:00 -
[340] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
From your posts, you do not debate at all. Debate involves evidence and reasoned conclusions based on that evidence. You seem to be confusing semi-coherent yelling with debate. Had you at any point provided evidence to back your claims, you would have forced Tippia and I to take some sort of stand (possibly in agreement with you). But you didn't, so we didn't.
And you confuse a legitimate sharing and/or grappling of ideas, for carefully orchestrated manipulation of language and terms in order to achieve nerd victory.
You were not presenting ideas. You were presenting claims. Claims require evidence to back them up.
Terminology lesson: Idea: Thought about something that may be. Requires no justification or rationale. Claim: Statement that presents a factual argument. Requires evidence to justify. Evidence: Fact documented in testimony, text, physical material, or other medium.
If you had said "I think bots are bad and I think RMT is also bad" That would be an idea. You claimed that [insert 10 aforementioned specific claims here] and proceeded to refuse to provide evidence.
NB: If you're careful, you might notice that I make a claim here: That you made those 10 claims. Now I do have textual evidence to back each and every one up, so making me show it will embarrass you, but you can legitimately make be do so. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4716
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 09:46:00 -
[341] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You did not say that you wanted truth, you just wanted to win an argument. No, I wanted you to provide evidence to support your claims or to reject them. You were the one who brought up winning and losing and I explained to you why you put yourself in a position where it was impossible for you. If you took the time to read the part you quoted, you would have noticed that you pretty much completely reversed the truth here: both of the outcomes where I got what I wanted would lead to a truth being unearthed; the outcome that I didn't care about (you flaming out spectacularly) did not.
It's exactly because I wanted to arrive at some truth that I wanted you to provide arguments; your refusal to do so highlights that you're just projecting: you had no interest in the truth; you were only interested in winning (but put yourself in an unwinnable position); you chose to avoid any of the GÇ£truthGÇ¥-outcomes because you absolutely didn't want me to get what I wanted out of it (i.e. the truth) and instead chose the flame-out option out of spite. You've even said so yourself, quite explicitly. I was kind enough to explain to you very early on what you needed to do to dig yourself out of your hole, but your eyes were so fixed on the prize that you didn't want to, so you sacrificed the truth for an (zero-percent) chance of winning.
Quote:When debate becomes an endeavor of word games intended to fuel and preserve ones ego, it ceases to be useful. So why didn't you make it something else by, oh, I don't knowGǪ providing some evidence for your claims rather than trying to dance around the issue because you knew you couldn't prove anything?
Quote:My interest here was to see how far I could push you, and to see how far you would go. We already know you're a troll GÇö you didn't have to prove anything. But thank you for admitting it.
Quote:I do not choose to debate to win GǪexcept that you just admitted that it's all you're after and that you have no interest in the truth (or you would have provided it rather than exclaim that you had no interest in it). Granted, your definition of winning is trolling, not advancing the debate or proving a point. You never tried to find a greater truth because you refused at every step of the way to add any truth to the matter being discussed. You dodged every opportunity to do so. So not only do you only troll to win, you fail at it miserably and in fact put yourself in an unwinnable situation from the get-go. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Cass Lie
State War Academy Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 10:24:00 -
[342] - Quote
This whole "preconception" of widespread botting/RMT (in null) is a legacy from the fall of the NC, when the propaganda machines on both sides were going full gear and no claim needed evidence as long as it was smearing enough. Since then this whole notion has somewhat become common knowledge and many people accept it without second thinking.
Sure, I have had corpmates go bot hunting to drones with stealth bombers and drag bubbles, because they were certain that sooner or later they will find a bot. But I heard similar things said about certain southern regions, northern regions etc. I think in general, if a region is quiet enough for a long enough time, some botting operations may/will occur (and drones actually were one of the most stable areas in null). But to draw from that some colosal RMT/botting conspiracy, well that is quite a leap.
P.S.: I heard that that ratting Nyx was actually lost when the owner decided to play dead drunk and fell asleep in a middle of an anom. Sounds more plausible than someone being stupid enough to write such a bad bot. |
knobber Jobbler
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
26
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 10:37:00 -
[343] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Ira Theos wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. No it isn't because all that would happen then is CCP would be accused of picking people who they have person relationships with. So you would prefer to have it populated with people who have a personal relationship with the Mittani? (and before anyone asks, I'm not an alt of the OP and don't know him at all.) Your point is what? Whether you hate or like The Mittani, the reason he is able to get so many votes is because of his influence in game. Maybe in a few years if you have done as half as much as he has done then maybe you can get people to vote for you instead. Also, if we follow your idea then the The Mittani is guaranteed a place on the CSM for life considering he is good friends with many CCP employees, so your idea is even more fail.
But hardly anyone voted for him in the grand scheme of things. The csm voting needs more publicity and a way of gradually reducing candidates during the voting process so there is less wastage.
That all said, the currest csm has been the best by far from a number of stand points. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
441
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 12:43:00 -
[344] - Quote
Tippia wrote:If you took the time to read the part you quoted, you would have noticed that you pretty much completely reversed the truth here.
.....Combined with far to much manipulation to Pyramid quote...
Let me Underline The Important Parts For You Ya know... since you consistently rewrite history, manipulate and take things out of context...
Your version of the truth is not by default, everyone else's truth. This is also something that alludes narcissistic, debate team champions, such as yourself. Your ability to manipulate terms is nicely developed, no doubt over years of practice, but that ability can only make you an aspiring politician or a lawyer, and less of an aspiring scientist or a philosopher. Assuming that even matters to you, since you seem to put such a high value on "winning".
If I say that a public domain possesses easy and readily available information on the subject, and in great multitude, then that is my stance. Your insistence to provide google searches and links for the readier, is in fact, directly contradictory to my stance. You and Mr Red Legion guy have chosen to use that perspective as fodder for more then 3 pages, like some idiot politician running a smear campaign because they have nothing truly of substance to offer.
I CANNOT possibly represent, on these forums, the ORGY of information that would suddenly appear to the reader if they bothered to type a short string of words into google, it is FAR TO VAST and you know that. Thus, your tireless baiting of me, and I am not biting, nor will I be swayed or manipulated by such transparent and weak drivel.. My proof exists in full, beyond this gaming venue and it is 100% Contingent on it's state of easy accessibility to everyone who desires to seek it out.
1. Information: is public, readily available and easy to find. 2. Location:internet browser 3. Key words: "RMT MMO's" "Bots MMORPG's" "RMT and Botting MMO's" or any other combination. 4. Potential reading material: consists of literally millions of pages of text, all with remarkably similar information. proving that RMT and Botting is now commonplace in all Major MMO's
That is legit, regardless of how much you complain, and regardless of your ill need to get the last word in on a video game forum. My stance is rational, sensible and overloaded with evidence readily available to all. The reader has direction, guidance and a commentary on what they are expected to see. After they then do so, THEY can decide, not you. Them making their own choice, and me not telling them what to think (like you do so often) is the length and breadth of my stance, and my proof in it's entirety.
All that you are doing is baiting me with your imagined version of the truth, in the hopes of developing more poop to fling at me. It is not working, and with each passing page your truest nature is beginning to reveal itself. I am happy to take part, although I suspect that most of the people here already knew what you were about anyway. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Akatenshi Xi
Elite Shadow Society ESS Empire
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 13:58:00 -
[345] - Quote
CSM is a stupid idea. There will always be something wrong with it.
CCP is too out of touch to do its own dirty work and really read their own forums and know what players want they have to resort to a group of retards representing probably the null sec powerblocks whom barely get to actually play the game itself if they are actually running their organizations, unless they are complete ''no-lifers''. Why them? Because they have the biggest coalitions and alliances to get votes from, while players who have far more years of real experience in eve who are in npc/small corp or alliance have no chance of being put into CSM and actually affecting some good changes from their experience.
Just take some polls, ask some questions, get responses. Ignore the trolls. DEVs get to work and stop farting around with fail updates that no one cared about in the first place. Fix **** that has been wrong for years in the game. UI would be a good place to start (this doesn't include ripping off a start bar from your desktop) |
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 14:09:00 -
[346] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:~some person talking out his behind~
RubyPorto wrote:For your convenience, I'll list them again. 1) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of Botting in RED.L Space (a gimme, if you read my posts) 2) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of RMT in RED.L Space (harder, cause it's not remotely true) 3) I personally have or should have specific knowledge that RED.L tolerates botting/RMT (if you take the gimme in 1, this is gonna be tough) 4) Botting Occurs in the Drone Region Federation 5) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating Botting 6) RMT Occurs in the Drone Region Federation 7) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating RMT 8) All of 4-7 are more true of the Drone Region Federation than of ANY OTHER PLACE in EVE (this is gonna be a ***** to prove, I mean this requires evidence from literally every other place in EVE) [RETRACTED] 9) Any or all of 4-7 are true of the Drone Region Federation to a concentrated enough extent that they can be accurately called "Bot/RMT Central" (The Weaker version of 8, and thus a freebie if you prove 8) [RETRACTED] 10) RED.L is a part of the Drone Region Federation (To my knowledge, RA/RED.L is part of the Eastern Russian Federation, distinct from the Drone Region Federation) These claims of yours are what we disagree with. Not the pretty obvious fact that RMT exists in EVE, or that botting exists in EVE. Furthermore, several people have pointed out for you that your "debating" technique seemingly relies on the premise that the person "shouting" loudest will win, and personally I find that disgusting. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4718
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 14:29:00 -
[347] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:If I say that a public domain possesses easy and readily available information on the subject, and in great multitude, then that is my stance. GǪwhich is irrelevant since that's not what's in question, no matter how often you repeat it and try to deflect from what we are asking you. You have yet to either a) provide evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom, or b) retract those claims (you were on your way, but now you're back to denying it and trying to derail the discussing by throwing in the red herring of publicly available information GÇö something that was never in question).
Quote:Your insistence to provide google searches and links for the readier That is not my insistence. That is your insistence, which, by the way, has nothing to do with the question at hand. My insistence is that you provide evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom.
Quote:CANNOT possibly ACCURATELY represent, on these gaming forums, the ORGY of information that would suddenly appear to the reader if they bothered to type a short string of words into google Good news. You don't have to. No-one is asking you to. We are asking you to provide evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom.
Quote:1. Information: is public, readily available and easy to find. 2. Location:internet browser 3. Key words: "RMT MMO's" "Bots MMORPG's" "RMT and Botting MMO's" or any other combination. 4. Potential reading material: consists of literally millions of pages of text, all with remarkably similar information. proving that RMT and Botting are now commonplace in ALL Major MMO's GǪand where among all this information is the evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom? Your key words are not specific enough to home in on this question GÇö they just give information about RMT and botting in MMOs in general, something that was never in question.
Your list of pointers does not help in answering who does what where under the auspices of whom.
Quote:That is legit, regardless of how much you complain, and regardless of your ill need to get the last word in on a video game forum. GǪaside from the fact that it does not provide any evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom.
It would be nice if you actually did threw some facts in my face. So far you haven't provided any evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom, which is what the question is all about. You just keep repeating the same old facts that were never in question and which fail to provide the evidence you need to provide.
Just to be clear: what you need to provide is evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. Not links that describe botting and RMT in MMOs in general, not even links that in general terms describe botting and RMT in EVE. Definitely not pages upon pages of search results GÇö a single page of facts will do. The facts that this single page need to provide should encompass evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom.
Did you get that, or do we have to keep repeating it every time since you can't stop going off on irrelevant tangents? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
198
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 14:40:00 -
[348] - Quote
The election isn't rigged. It is heavily manipulated, however. The real problem is the community as a whole doesn't want a democracy. In a competitive world, one never wants to lend an advantage to the competition. Some of us win. Some have to lose. In a true democracy a fundamental force is to ensure everyone has their access to understanding the issues, and to the vote. Should someone not avail themselves of this, then that's their fault.
In EVE the CSM is viewed not as a player representative body, but as another source of power. All power is to be used against everyone but ones own. Ipso facto, it's impossible for the CSM to represent the players as a whole. The notion of the CSM representing anything but their own narrow interests as individuals and members of larger groups isn't an impossible dream, it's just highly unlikely.
As the top goon said, the majority isn't organized. Rather than stating a fact, he showed his hand. The majority, or totality IS organized into the player base of this game. Divide and conquer is the enemy of democracy, but the rule of EVE. So, the question is: Who is fooled into believing the CSM represents the player base? That of course is for each player to answer.
What exacerbates this is CCP's insistance on parading the CSM around as a player-input of some sort which guides their decisions. It's not the issue of CSM representing whom. That's probably what sticks in people's craw. If CCP admitted they understand the CSM doesn't really represent the player base, the purpose of the CSM wouldn't be in question.
What would be in question is: Just where IS this group CCP keeps claiming represents the player base of EVE? I haven't seen one. Have you?
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold. |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2723
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 15:05:00 -
[349] - Quote
the best thing about election season is legions of npc corp alts complaining about how i'm an awful person and did meeen things to them
mittens csm7: ~chairman for lyfe~
The Office of the Chairman: A Thread for Constituent Issues |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2723
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 15:17:00 -
[350] - Quote
about 70% of the badposts in this thread can be summed up as 'nerf charismatic attractive people with a modicum of social graces who know how to have a good time on the town'
The Office of the Chairman: A Thread for Constituent Issues |
|
Prince Kobol
180
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 15:23:00 -
[351] - Quote
In regards to the question "Do null sec corps participate in RMT activities" the answer is yes.
Just for the simple fact that you can purchase a Titan for RL money means mean this is true since you can only build a Titan in Sov Space.
Do we know which alliances sells Titans for RMT no.
So whilst we know that RMT does exist in all area's of space, including space which is owned by null sec alliances, we do not know who is involved.
What doesn't help is that I have not seen one member of the CSM actively come out and slam CCP for there apparent lack of action against those who are involved in RMT.
This also does not help the belief which is held by many that the reason the CSM do not actively campaign against RMT is because they are involved in some way shape or form.
There are quite a few measures that CCP can take to make life a lot harder for the RMT merchants yet for whatever reason they seem very reluctant to do so.
Again people think, rightly or wrongly, this is because of fear. CCP are aware who is involved and are scared of possibility of losing a large amount of null sec players if they punish those involved.
Which ever way you swing it, RMT is an issue in Eve and part of it is based in null sec and CCP either know who is involved and are turning a blind eye, or they are simply inept.
Either way, it is not good.
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Prince Kobol
180
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 15:33:00 -
[352] - Quote
I regards to the CSM being rigged.. sorry but that is how elections are run.
You have various charismatic people who are able to bullshit there way out of a paper bag and are able to gather a force of people to support them.
In Eve this is made somewhat easier for those who run null sec alliances as by their very nature they all ready have a solid and coherent structure in place and a large membership.
The Goons have a even bigger advantage as they are comprised of people from outside of Eve who all share a sense of comradeship.
If you want to have a place on the CSM then you have 2 options.
1. Form your own corp, build it up into a successful alliance comprising of thousand of players and then get them to vote for you.
2. Create a interesting campaign that has important and relevant points that is able to grab the attention of players who are not part of a large alliance. This will be a lot harder and will involve many people having to campaign on your behalf in game and on the forums and other places such as Eve Radio to generate the support you will need but is possible. |
Zimmy Zeta
Battle Force Industries Tactical Invader Syndicate
796
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 16:04:00 -
[353] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:the best thing about election season is legions of npc corp alts complaining about how i'm an awful person and did meeen things to them
mittens csm7: ~chairman for lyfe~
If you are that evil genius that people say, i suppose all those npc corp alts are goon alts. You ordered them to smacktalk the CSM 6 with unfounded diatribes and make themselves look like drooling idiots to shift the public opinion back to the old CSM and it's chairman. Clever, very clever indeed....
-.- |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
160
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 16:42:00 -
[354] - Quote
Selinate wrote:This praetorium fellow apparently is STILL butthurt over being proven wrong.
This is from post #249 and at this point, he had not been factually proven wrong.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
160
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 17:11:00 -
[355] - Quote
Sung to the tune of......
**Oh, give me a home....where the pedant can roam**
You know the rest..... Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? |
bilingi
Ghosts of the Storm
26
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 18:37:00 -
[356] - Quote
If Red L isnt doing any of this why fight so hard to say you arent... Makes you look guilty. Which Some in Red L probably are.... ALL 0.0 residents are guilty because they know its happening and turn a blind eye. Reason I left is allaince was in wouldt let ya kill blue bots. |
Selinate
642
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 18:46:00 -
[357] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Selinate wrote:This praetorium fellow apparently is STILL butthurt over being proven wrong. This is from post #249 and at this point, he had not been factually proven wrong.
Proven wrong over the fact that "There are RMT sites that I can find on google" does not equal "DRF space is botting and RMT central"
Yes. He has been proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument. |
Selinate
642
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 18:47:00 -
[358] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:about 70% of the badposts in this thread can be summed up as 'nerf charismatic attractive people with a modicum of social graces who know how to have a good time on the town'
..I've seen you...
......you are not attractive, my friend........ |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 18:57:00 -
[359] - Quote
Tippia wrote: ..............
Tippa, your like diarrhea.... you just can't be stopped.
Again, I am not going to coincide to your game,nor your careful manipulations of what I said. Your view is not universal, and in this instance you are strait up wrong. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:15:00 -
[360] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote: These claims of yours are what we disagree with. Not the pretty obvious fact that RMT exists in EVE, or that botting exists in EVE. Furthermore, several people have pointed out for you that your "debating" technique seemingly relies on the premise that the person "shouting" loudest will win, and personally I find that disgusting.
Clearly you are not reading all post pertaining to this discussion, if you claim that only I am to blame. I also disagree with your stance, because the only thing that I am shouting loudly, is where I stand. Thus, not allowing others to manipulate my wording, or put words in my mouth that were not my own.
And I will continue to shout that loudly, yes. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
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Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:20:00 -
[361] - Quote
Selinate wrote:Proven wrong over the fact that "There are RMT sites that I can find on google" does not equal "DRF space is botting and RMT central"
Yes. He has been proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument.
I'd say it is only an outdated statement, being that the only reason why it is not still RMT and Botting central is because other regions have caught up. And I made that statement prior, solely in the hopes to find some common ground with Mr. Red Legion guy, only to later discover that he was not interested in doing so. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4729
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:30:00 -
[362] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippa, you just can't be stopped. Sure I can. It's trivially easy, in fact. Just provide evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom (or, alternatively, retract those statements since you cannot provide any such evidence).
Quote:Your view is not universal, and in this instance you are strait up wrong. Actually, it is universal GÇö there's an entire formal fallacy with a 2,000-year history behind it to describe what you're doing. I'm not wrong for the simple fact that I'm not making any claim GÇö you are, and you are unable to support it.
Quote:Clearly you are not reading all post pertaining to this discussion, if you claim that only I am to blame. Of course you're the only one to blame GÇö you're the one making the claim; you're the one not fulfilling your burden of proof (you know, providing any evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom, in case you missed it).
Quote:I also disagree with your stance, because the only thing that I am shouting loudly, is where I stand. GǪwhich is irrelevant since that's not what's in question. What's in question is your inability to provide evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. It doesn't matter how loudly you shout your stance because it is not relevant to the question being discussed GÇö it's just you trying to throw in a trawler worth of red herrings in an attempt to get out of the deep hole you've dug for yourself.
Quote:I'd say it is only an outdated statement So you retract your claim to detailed knowledge then? The reason he had no interest in finding a common ground was most likely because you had no ground to stand on to begin with because you couldn't provide any evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. The common ground would simply be his ground, because it is the only one available until you prove otherwise. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8380
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:30:00 -
[363] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Proven wrong over the fact that "There are RMT sites that I can find on google" does not equal "DRF space is botting and RMT central"
Yes. He has been proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument. I'd say it is only an outdated statement, being that the only reason why it is not still RMT and Botting central is because other regions have caught up. And I made that statement prior, solely in the hopes to find some common ground with Mr. Red Legion guy, only to later discover that he was not interested in doing so. Making statements that you know to be false "in the hopes to find some common ground" is kind of silly.
e: f,b Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:32:00 -
[364] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Proven wrong over the fact that "There are RMT sites that I can find on google" does not equal "DRF space is botting and RMT central"
Yes. He has been proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument. I'd say it is only an outdated statement, being that the only reason why it is not still RMT and Botting central is because other regions have caught up. And I made that statement prior, solely in the hopes to find some common ground with Mr. Red Legion guy, only to later discover that he was not interested in doing so. Making statements that you know to be false "in the hopes to find some common ground" is kind of silly.
Incomplete is not the same as false. Go look it up.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2742
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:33:00 -
[365] - Quote
Selinate wrote:The Mittani wrote:about 70% of the badposts in this thread can be summed up as 'nerf charismatic attractive people with a modicum of social graces who know how to have a good time on the town'
..I've seen you... ......you are not attractive, my friend........
you're right:
i'm fabulous~
The Office of the Chairman: A Thread for Constituent Issues |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:33:00 -
[366] - Quote
Tippia wrote:evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom.
This appears to be your topic not mine. I have stated my topic repeatedly for (going on) 4 pages now. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Cadinie
The Maverick Navy Against ALL Authorities
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:33:00 -
[367] - Quote
Ohh democracy, you so funny.
What it comes down to is as what has been stated many times in this thread. The problem lies with the inherent flaw of ANY form of vote backed representation. When the sole factor of election for authority is based on amount of votes, the major parties will always use their influence over their own majority to get their representative elected (large alliances).
The alternative which would be CCP choosing at random leads to people who don't know the game, or favoritism by the devs. This is also a terrible idea. Realistically the best idea would be a hybrid of the two.
The best system would be vote driven, but it should be decided into tiers of influence. mega alliances that hold multiple regions should be put at the largest size tier (with exceptions made when needed like for PL or any other large alliance that may not choose to hold space) Then in the second tier you would have smaller alliances that ride on the back of the larger alliances, or secure a small amount of space for their self. Then you go down to tier three which are lowsec / nullsec based, but not that large and not space holding (the true pirate style PvPers) and finally you have the smallest tier, the highsec no space holding corporations.
Each tier should have roughly the same amount of representation power, and roughly the same amount of candidates (lets say 4 per tier?) that way you cover a wide range of EVE life, and have people from different alliances and lifestyles instead of all people in nullsec or whoever has the most votes. This kind of system is an augmented form of democracy that could help to solve the one sided representation that is currently bitched about.
I realize there is probably a single term that describes the entire system I just described, but I'm not exactly a politician or political major so I'm afraid I can't give you a simple word that you could look up on wiki to use as a reference hahaha. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4729
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:34:00 -
[368] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Incomplete is not the same as false. Go look it up. They're not incomplete GÇö they're unfounded and unproven. From a truth perspective, that makes them false by default.
Quote:This appears to be your topic not mine. Nope. You made the claim; the burden of proof is yours. You fail to live up to it, making your claim false by default. I'm simply reminding you of what the question is and not letting you go off on irrelevant tangents without confirming or denying that original claim. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:37:00 -
[369] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Incomplete is not the same as false. Go look it up. They're not incomplete GÇö they're unfounded and unproven. From a truth perspective, that makes them false by default. Quote:This appears to be your topic not mine. Nope. You made the claim; the burden of proof is yours. You fail to live up to it, making your claim false by default.
I made a detailed claim of precisely who is RMT'ing and botting in nullsec? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:38:00 -
[370] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:If you took the time to read the part you quoted, you would have noticed that you pretty much completely reversed the truth here.
.....Combined with far to much manipulation to Pyramid quote... Let me Underline The Important Parts For YouYa know... since you consistently rewrite history, manipulate and take things out of context...Your version of the truth is not by default, everyone else's truth. This is also something that alludes narcissistic, debate team champions, such as yourself. Your ability to manipulate terms is nicely developed, no doubt over years of practice, but that ability can only make you an aspiring politician or a lawyer, and less of an aspiring scientist or a philosopher. Assuming that even matters to you, since you seem to put such a high value on "winning". If I say that a public domain possesses easy and readily available information on the subject, and in great multitude, then that is my stance. Your insistence to provide google searches and links for the readier, is in fact, directly contradictory to my stance. You and Mr Red Legion guy have chosen to use that perspective as fodder for more then 3 pages, like some idiot politician running a smear campaign because they have nothing truly of substance to offer. I CANNOT possibly ACCURATELY represent, on these gaming forums, the ORGY of information that would suddenly appear to the reader if they bothered to type a short string of words into google, it is FAR TO VAST and you know that. Thus, your tireless baiting of me, and I am not biting, nor will I be swayed or manipulated by such transparent and weak drivel.. My proof exists in full, beyond this gaming venue and it is 100% Contingent on it's state of easy accessibility to everyone who desires to seek it out. 1. Information: is public, readily available and easy to find. 2. Location:internet browser3. Key words: "RMT MMO's" "Bots MMORPG's" "RMT and Botting MMO's" or any other combination. 4. Potential reading material: consists of literally millions of pages of text, all with remarkably similar information. proving that RMT and Botting are now commonplace in ALL Major MMO'sThat is legit, regardless of how much you complain, and regardless of your ill need to get the last word in on a video game forum. My stance is rational, sensible and overloaded with evidence readily available to all. The reader has direction, guidance and a commentary on what they are expected to see. After they then do so, THEY can decide, not you. Them making their own choice, and me not telling them what to think (like you do so often) is the heart and soul of my stance, it's length and breadth and my proof is contingent on the readier's decision making process after the fact. All that you are doing is baiting me with your imagined version of the truth, in the hopes of developing more poop to fling at me. It is not working, and with each passing page your truest nature is beginning to reveal itself. I am happy to take part, although I suspect that most of the people here already knew what you were about anyway. I am also happy to keep throwing facts in your face... Ya know, instead of just bending over to your imagined realities like everyone else does.
My claim... again. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
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MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
161
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:38:00 -
[371] - Quote
Selinate wrote:Yes. He has been proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument.
Philosophical kinda' thing.....which I realize the spread sheet crowd doesn't exactly embrace.
It might in fact be a valid argument. An invalid or weak argument does not make the premise false. If the debater with a differing viewpoint cared to disprove the assertion with facts and figures, then, it's wrong. But simply declaring the other person wrong based on arbitrary "rules of debate" is equally invalid.
It's also a weak argument.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8380
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:41:00 -
[372] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Proven wrong over the fact that "There are RMT sites that I can find on google" does not equal "DRF space is botting and RMT central"
Yes. He has been proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument. I'd say it is only an outdated statement, being that the only reason why it is not still RMT and Botting central is because other regions have caught up. And I made that statement prior, solely in the hopes to find some common ground with Mr. Red Legion guy, only to later discover that he was not interested in doing so. Making statements that you know to be false "in the hopes to find some common ground" is kind of silly. Incomplete is not the same as false. Go look it up. Yes, it is. You are the weakest link. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4729
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:43:00 -
[373] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I made a detailed claim of precisely who is RMT'ing and botting in nullsec? Yes. That's how all of this started. If you made it in error, now (or, more accurately, 10 pages ago) would be a good time to say so. No, that is a different and completely irrelevant claim that no-one has ever questioned.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
370
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:59:00 -
[374] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Killstealing wrote:uhhhhhhh
a vote for mittens is a vote for kittens Don't be silly. A vote for mittens is a vote for puppies! :3 oh man what a cutie |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:09:00 -
[375] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I made a detailed claim of precisely who is RMT'ing and botting in nullsec? Yes. That's how all of this started. If you made it in error, now (or, more accurately, 10 pages ago) would be a good time to say so. No, that is a different and completely irrelevant claim that no-one has ever questioned.
I think you should quote the part where I submitted evidence regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. Because a statement like "Drone space is botting central" most certainly does not fall under that category, and at this point you have deviated from reality so far that I have no idea what you are talking about. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:11:00 -
[376] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Proven wrong over the fact that "There are RMT sites that I can find on google" does not equal "DRF space is botting and RMT central"
Yes. He has been proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument. I'd say it is only an outdated statement, being that the only reason why it is not still RMT and Botting central is because other regions have caught up. And I made that statement prior, solely in the hopes to find some common ground with Mr. Red Legion guy, only to later discover that he was not interested in doing so. Making statements that you know to be false "in the hopes to find some common ground" is kind of silly. Incomplete is not the same as false. Go look it up. Yes, it is. You are the weakest link.
I don't need to justify why I might attempt to find a common ground in a debate, to someone who doesn't seem to understand why I would bother doing such a thing. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4729
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:20:00 -
[377] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I think you should quote the part where I submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. GǪexcept that the entire problem is that you didn't do just that. You made claims without the evidence to support it.
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I don't need to justify why I might attempt to find a common ground in a debate, to someone who doesn't seem to understand why I would bother doing such a thing. You don't have to, but that doesn't particularly change the change the fact that finding common ground between some point of view and something we can only assume is falsehood (since you've not been able to provide any proof to the contrary) is still quite silly.
It rather questions the value of the effort to do so to begin with, and without your justification, it seems quite pointless. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:22:00 -
[378] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I don't need to justify why I might attempt to find a common ground in a debate, to someone who doesn't seem to understand why I would bother doing such a thing. You don't have to, but that doesn't particularly change the change the fact that finding common ground between some point of view and something we can only assume is falsehood (since you've not been able to provide any proof to the contrary) is still quite silly. It rather questions the value of the effort to do so to begin with, and without your justification, it seems quite pointless.
You seem to have responded only to the post that was NOT directed towards you. What's wrong, you could not find a spot in this thread to quote?
Here I will repost it for you...
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
I think you should quote the part where I submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. Because a statement like "Drone space is botting central" most certainly does not fall under that category, and at this point you have deviated so far from reality that I have no idea what you are talking about.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4729
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:25:00 -
[379] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You seem to have responded only to the post that was NOT directed towards you. I responded to both. I just had to start with that one because it was so unrelentingly silly. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:26:00 -
[380] - Quote
Now you are dodging... You lose.
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I made a detailed claim of precisely who is RMT'ing and botting in nullsec? Yes. That's how all of this started. If you made it in error, now (or, more accurately, 10 pages ago) would be a good time to say so. No, that is a different and completely irrelevant claim that no-one has ever questioned. I think you should quote the part where I submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. Because a statement like "Drone space is botting central" most certainly does not fall under that category, and at this point you have deviated so far from reality that I have no idea what you are talking about.
And you can't even support YOUR claim with as much as a forum quote. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4730
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:30:00 -
[381] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Now you are dodging. No, I'm explaining to you why you still GÇö 12 pages on GÇö fail to understand your very simple, very basic, and very fundamental error.
Quote:I think you should quote the part where I submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. GǪexcept (again) that the entire problem is that you failed to do just that and that you have continually dodged your burden of proof ever since. You made claims without the evidence to support it. You know this. Stop being an idiot and answer the questions people have asked you for the last 12 pages or simply admit that you ****** up; that you lied; that you made unsupported claims; that you pulled assertions out of your ass and then tried to cover it up with general sweeping claims that completely lacked the level of specificity needed to support your claims. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:32:00 -
[382] - Quote
No quote? Ok.... I guess your blowing hot air because your claim cannot be substantiated in any way shape or form. In fact after careful review of this thread, it is not only inaccurate it is entirely made up. You manipulated text one to many times, screwed up and got caught.
Now deal with it. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Selinate
643
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:34:00 -
[383] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Selinate wrote:Yes. He has been proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument. Philosophical kinda' thing.....which I realize the spread sheet crowd doesn't exactly embrace. It might in fact be a valid argument. An invalid or weak argument does not make the premise false. If the debater with a differing viewpoint cared to disprove the assertion with facts and figures, then, it's wrong. But simply declaring the other person wrong based on arbitrary "rules of debate" is equally invalid. It's also a weak argument. "Proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument"
This is a very simple sentence meaning that a person has been proven wrong in thinking that his or her argument was valid.
An argument is defined as a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong, straight from the dictionary.
Very simple. I don't know how you're not getting this. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:36:00 -
[384] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:If you took the time to read the part you quoted, you would have noticed that you pretty much completely reversed the truth here.
.....Combined with far to much manipulation to Pyramid quote... Let me Underline The Important Parts For YouYa know... since you consistently rewrite history, manipulate and take things out of context...Your version of the truth is not by default, everyone else's truth. This is also something that alludes narcissistic, debate team champions, such as yourself. Your ability to manipulate terms is nicely developed, no doubt over years of practice, but that ability can only make you an aspiring politician or a lawyer, and less of an aspiring scientist or a philosopher. Assuming that even matters to you, since you seem to put such a high value on "winning". If I say that a public domain possesses easy and readily available information on the subject, and in great multitude, then that is my stance. Your insistence to provide google searches and links for the readier, is in fact, directly contradictory to my stance. You and Mr Red Legion guy have chosen to use that perspective as fodder for more then 3 pages, like some idiot politician running a smear campaign because they have nothing truly of substance to offer. I CANNOT possibly ACCURATELY represent, on these gaming forums, the ORGY of information that would suddenly appear to the reader if they bothered to type a short string of words into google, it is FAR TO VAST and you know that. Thus, your tireless baiting of me, and I am not biting, nor will I be swayed or manipulated by such transparent and weak drivel.. My proof exists in full, beyond this gaming venue and it is 100% Contingent on it's state of easy accessibility to everyone who desires to seek it out. 1. Information: is public, readily available and easy to find. 2. Location:internet browser3. Key words: "RMT MMO's" "Bots MMORPG's" "RMT and Botting MMO's" or any other combination. 4. Potential reading material: consists of literally millions of pages of text, all with remarkably similar information. proving that RMT and Botting are now commonplace in ALL Major MMO'sThat is legit, regardless of how much you complain, and regardless of your ill need to get the last word in on a video game forum. My stance is rational, sensible and overloaded with evidence readily available to all. The reader has direction, guidance and a commentary on what they are expected to see. After they then do so, THEY can decide, not you. Them making their own choice, and me not telling them what to think (like you do so often) is the heart and soul of my stance, it's length and breadth and my proof is contingent on the readier's decision making process after the fact. All that you are doing is baiting me with your imagined version of the truth, in the hopes of developing more poop to fling at me. It is not working, and with each passing page your truest nature is beginning to reveal itself. I am happy to take part, although I suspect that most of the people here already knew what you were about anyway. I am also happy to keep throwing facts in your face... Ya know, instead of just bending over to your imagined realities like everyone else does.
And again, my SIMPLE stance... undiluted and in plain text for all to see. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4730
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:36:00 -
[385] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:No quote? GǪbecause (again) that the entire problem is that you failed to do just that.
Quote:Ok.... I guess your blowing hot air because your claim cannot be substantiated in any way shape or form. GǪexcept that you are asking me to prove a negative, which cannot be done. The fact remains: you have failed to provide any evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom.
Quote:And again, my SIMPLE stance... undiluted and in plain text. GǪwhich is still irrelevant since it fails to provide any evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:37:00 -
[386] - Quote
Where is the quote Tippa? Where did I make the claims that you're saying that I did? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4730
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:38:00 -
[387] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Where is the quote Tippa? Where did I make the claims that you're saying that I did? Page 8 and onwards.
Oh, andQuote:You manipulated text one to many times, screwed up and got caught. No, that was you. You manipulated my statement to turn it into the exact opposite of what was said. I have consistently said that you failed to provide any evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. You tried to turn this into me saying that you had provided such evidence and was asking me to provide a quote where you did this. Since you didn't no such quote is available, for obvious reasons.
Now, but altering the wording further, you are actually making a proper, non-negative request while trying to make it seem like you're asking for the same thing (which you aren't). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:40:00 -
[388] - Quote
A quote. I see a sarcastic comment about water not being wet at the top.
You are the queen of pyramid quoting, we all know that Give it to me. You cannot, because you made it up.
You. Lose. Deal with it. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4730
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:43:00 -
[389] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:A quote. I see a sarcastic comment about water not being wet at the top. Then keep reading. I can't quote every post you used to build your unsupported case because the forum software doesn't allow for that amount of quotes. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:44:00 -
[390] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:A quote. I see a sarcastic comment about water not being wet at the top. Then keep reading. I can't quote every post you used to build your unsupported case because the forum software doesn't allow for that amount of quotes.
Fail. Epic fail.
* Sucks on a victory lollipop and takes in some sweet sunshine.
The queen of Pyramid quoting CANT FIND NOT ONE REFERENCE to support his false claim. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:49:00 -
[391] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
I think you should quote the part where I submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. ..........
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
161
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:52:00 -
[392] - Quote
Selinate wrote: "Proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument"
This is a very simple sentence meaning that a person has been proven wrong in thinking that his or her argument was valid.
An argument is defined as a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong, straight from the dictionary.
Very simple. I don't know how you're not getting this.
Tsk, tsk. I "get it" quite well, thank you. One of my favorite joys is playing with, and watching how others play with, semantics.
He has been "Proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument"
You're right, your example is a very simple sentence. But, it's not the same sentence as originally drafted. Got to make sure those verbs are doing what you want......
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
248
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:53:00 -
[393] - Quote
Quote:I was going to respond to your post with something well thought out and intelligent, but then I realized that you belonged to red legion. So instead I will give you this...
BwhahahahahahaTrolololololololo!!!!!!111111111111 Look at the red legion guy talking about bots and RMT!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
The fact that your claims weren't detailed is the reason this ****** thread is as long as it is.
You insinuated that ROL is botting central. You failed to support these allegations.
/thread |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:56:00 -
[394] - Quote
Zirse wrote:Quote:I was going to respond to your post with something well thought out and intelligent, but then I realized that you belonged to red legion. So instead I will give you this...
BwhahahahahahaTrolololololololo!!!!!!111111111111 Look at the red legion guy talking about bots and RMT!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!! The fact that your claims weren't detailed is the reason this ****** thread is as long as it is. You insinuated that ROL is botting central. You failed to support these allegations. /thread
And this is submitted as a "quote the part where I submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom" I don't think anyone is gonna buy that. It is at best a sarcastic comment, an ad hominem formulated from slightly outdated information. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4731
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:57:00 -
[395] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:The queen of Pyramid quoting CANT FIND NOT ONE REFERENCE to support his false claim. You even repeated it on this page.
For someone who wants to use vague google searches as evidence, you sure seem very quick to dismiss actual references to exactly what has been said GÇö the entire exchange does not fit in a single post, but I have given you a link to the page where it starts. Unlike you, I have actually provided evidence to support my claim.
But sure, let's just look at some of your posts:
GÇ£Look at the red legion guy talking about bots and RMT!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!GÇ¥
GÇ£RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there. So no debate is possible.GÇ¥
GÇ£Meaning that if you have not seen said things for yourself by now, then you must be living under a rock out there.GÇ¥
GÇ£To you I can only say that you live in the very heart of RMT/ Botting central. I don't feel like debating this with you, because your stance is one that requires everyone else to believe that what people are saying about drone space is completely unwarranted and baseless hearsay. We simply know betterGÇ¥
GÇ£And drone regions don't have bots.GÇ¥
GǪamong other, which in context are part of you saying that you know who is doing what where and under the auspices of whom. The context does not fit here in its entirety, but I have linked it, so go ahead and actually read the source material this time. At about the point in the thread where you made that last sarcastic statement, you were also being asked to provide evidence for your claims. You immediately started avoiding this and instead tried to appeal to irrelevant generalities.
I'm sure that, just like those requests, and just like the continual correction of your attempts to alter the question and inject straw men, and just like your new attempt to reject sources for no specific reason when provided with them, you are going to ignore these facts about your posting in this thread as well. Well, the fact remains: you failed to provide any evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom.
You, sir, are a liar. Plain and simple.
Quote:And this is submitted as a "quote the part where I submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom" I don't think anyone is gonna buy that. No. It is submitted as a quote where you provide detailed claims about who does what where and under the auspices of whom, because that is what you asked for GÇö it's just the first post in which you build your claim, but that's where it begins. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
443
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:02:00 -
[396] - Quote
Those single sentence fragments are by no definition, me submitting evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom.
They are someone ragging on Red Alliance, and since I also repeatedly stated that bots and RMT proliferate all modern MMO's, eve included, one could then surmise that my opinion is that they could be found just about anywhere. Thus, there does not even have to be a who, what or under a auspicious who... at all.
But of course you never asked me, you just put words into my mouth and manipulated text for 5 pages strait. Gonna have to do better then that, Tippa.
* man this lollipop is really good. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4731
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:09:00 -
[397] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Those single sentence fragments are by no definition, me submitting evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. No, because (again), you never submitted any such evidence GÇö that's the whole problem.
Those single sentence fragments are you making detailed claims about who does what where and under the auspices of whom, without any evidence to support it. Read them in context GÇö the link has been provided.
Quote:They are someone ragging on Red Alliance GǪclaiming that they live in a bot central, and that they should know this, and you are insinuating that they are doing it themselves. This constitutes you making a claim about who (RA) doing what (botting) where (drone regions) under the auspices of whom (RA themselves and the RA guy in particular). Claims that you have not provided any evidence for.
Quote:I also repeatedly stated that bots and RMT proliferate all modern MMO's GǪwhich is irrelevant since it does not offer any evidence to support your detailed claims about who dos what where under the auspices of whom.
Quote:But of course you never asked me We've been asking you since page 9.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
445
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:21:00 -
[398] - Quote
You said I made specific claims in your endless pyramid posting, you have failed to provide evidence after multiple posts of me asking you to provide said evidence.
So I will do so for you...
Post 397 Above
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Those single sentence fragments are by no definition, me submitting evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. No, because (again), you never submitted any such evidence GÇö that's the whole problem.
Post 347
Tippia wrote:Your insistence to provide google searches and links for the readier That is not my insistence. That is your insistence, which, by the way, has nothing to do with the question at hand. My insistence is that you provide evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom.?
So where did I submit such claims? Did I not? Or did I?
Which post shall we reference Tippa in light of your inability to provide factual evidence for your side of this debate? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Selinate
643
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:21:00 -
[399] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Selinate wrote: "Proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument"
This is a very simple sentence meaning that a person has been proven wrong in thinking that his or her argument was valid.
An argument is defined as a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong, straight from the dictionary.
Very simple. I don't know how you're not getting this.
Tsk, tsk. I "get it" quite well, thank you. One of my favorite joys is playing with, and watching how others play with, semantics. He has been "Proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument"You're right, your example is a very simple sentence. But, it's not the same sentence as originally drafted. Got to make sure those verbs are doing what you want......
Still can't read apparently, since I quoted exactly what i originally put. |
Dowla Daupor
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:25:00 -
[400] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
And again, my SIMPLE stance... undiluted and in plain text for all to see.
I didn't want to read all 20 pages of this thread but it looks like it contains some gold. |
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Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
445
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:29:00 -
[401] - Quote
Dowla Daupor wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:
And again, my SIMPLE stance... undiluted and in plain text for all to see.
I didn't want to read all 20 pages of this thread but it looks like it contains some gold.
It does, Tippa is pissed because He/She is getting out maneuvered in his/her's attempts to manipulate facts and evidence. It is pretty sweet really, you should read back a few pages, that is where the face plant can be seen in slow motion. You probably wont be seeing this again very soon, so I suggest taking a screen capture for posterity. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
248
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:36:00 -
[402] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Dowla Daupor wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:
And again, my SIMPLE stance... undiluted and in plain text for all to see.
I didn't want to read all 20 pages of this thread but it looks like it contains some gold. It does, Tippa is pissed because He/She is getting out maneuvered in his/her's attempts to manipult facts and evidence. It is pretty sweet really, you should read back a few pages, that is where the face plant can be seen in slow motion. You probably wont be seeing this again very soon, so I suggest taking a screen capture for posterity.
lolz |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
445
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:42:00 -
[403] - Quote
Now I will go eat dinner.
Tippa, it has been fun. I hope I have earned your undying contempt and you now come at me with all of the forces that you can muster in game. In truth, you are probably one of the best (and most manipulative) debaters that I have ever seen. That being said, everyone loses sometimes, and that loss is one of our greatest teachers. If we do not accept that, then we do not accept the lesson either, and we can never excel further beyond where we have come to rest.
That being said... debate is for truth, debate is not for just to being right. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2748
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:45:00 -
[404] - Quote
few things in the world are as pedantic and self-obsessed as a youthful rationalist The Office of the Chairman: A Thread for Constituent Issues |
Sasha Khaine
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:48:00 -
[405] - Quote
I don't see why people get so wound up about it. It isn't like CSM members are given advantages in game or anything. I don't care who gets voted as long as they make something of it and improve the game for the better. They could all be from the same corporation for all I care. As long as they show some knowledge and commitment, I'm game. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4745
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:54:00 -
[406] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You said I made specific claims in your endless pyramid posting Good thing that I didn't pyramid quote (or pyramid post) anything then, but rather made two simple in-line quotes and a couple of (also inline) block quotes.
Quote:you have failed to provide evidence after multiple posts of me asking you to provide said evidence. GǪexcept that I just did.
First, you asked me to provide a quote where GÇ£[you] submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom.GÇ¥. I answered this by saying that the entire problem from the get-go was that you never provided any evidence, so no such quote exists. If you are asking me to provide evidence of this, then I'm sorry to inform you that exhibiting non-existence is an impossibility since there exists nothing to exhibit.
You then asked me to provide a quote GÇ£Where [you] make the claims that you're saying that I did?GÇ¥, which I did by linking to page 8, where the quote snippets begin and where, in the context of the discussion you made detailed claims about who did what where and under the auspices of whom, without providing any evidence to back up such a claim. This was a different request than the one above.
Quote:So I will do so for you... I have to ask: exactly what is it you think you're doing for me here?
Quote:Post 347
Your insistence to provide google searches and links for the readier That is not my insistence. That is your insistence, which, by the way, has nothing to do with the question at hand. My insistence is that you provide evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom.? Yes? What part are you having problems with? The part you highlighted is simple me reminding you of what I've been doing for the last 10+ pages: asking you to provide evidence to support your claim about who does what where and under the auspices of whom. I am not saying that you have provided any GÇö I'm insisting that you should. Note the tense in the sentence: it is not any past tense that indicates that you have actually done what I insist you do GÇö it's an infinitive (actually, an imperative, sometimes confused with a present indicative) indicating that this is something that ought to happen right now.
GÇ£I insist you go to a doctor and have that wound looked atGÇ¥ does not mean that the respondent has gone to the doctor GÇö it means s/he should go right now or the speaker will bloody well force her/him.
Quote:I hope I have earned your undying contempt I have no contempt for idiots and illiterates. Only pity. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Shazzam Vokanavom
Hedion University Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:57:00 -
[407] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippa, it has been fun. I hope I have earned your undying contempt
Tippia is reknowned for being Obtuse. She has an unrelenting chinese water torture technique of over disecting all posts she doesnt like to the point of boredom for others. Its just a less obvious form of trolling, but the technique is a deliberate "brick wall" attempt to demoralise the poster.
This obstinate childish behaviour however is pretty much akin to the likes of spoilt brats who shout to their fathers for the pony they have to have. But in all honesty your pretty much wasting your time pandering to what he/she beleives is her god given right to be a royal pain in the arse.
Personally, I don't think her presence on the forums or what she really contributes to EvE as healthy or in any way clever. And I have seen more effective constructuve debate from 4 year olds. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4745
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:58:00 -
[408] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:It does, Tippa is pissed because He/She is getting out maneuvered in his/her's attempts to manipulate facts and evidence. GǪexcept that I'm not getting pissed and I'm not attempting to manipulate any facts or evidence.
I'm trying to make you provide evidence or facts to support the claims you made early in the thread. Evidence we have been asking you to cough up for, oh, 12 pages(?) now, and which you have been completely unable to produce. Your attempts at GÇ£outmanoeuvringGÇ¥ me by injecting red herrings, straw men, by altering quotes, by altering questing while not retaining the old set of acceptable answers has not really worked since it's so very simple to see that the initial issue still exists no matter how much you try to dodge it:
You have not provided any evidence to support your detailed claims about who does what where and under the auspices of whom.
Quote:That being said, everyone loses sometimes, and that loss is one of our greatest teachers. If we do not accept that, then we do not accept the lesson either, and we can never excel further beyond where we have come to rest. Great. Does this mean you are ready to admit that you accidentally made a fallacy of division: you tried to infer specifics from very general terms, when such inference was not really supported?
Quote:That being said... debate is for truth, debate is not for just to being right. GǪand that is why I have kept asking you to either provide the evidence needed to support your claims or to retract those claims, because either way, it yields the truth. It is your constant dancing around the issue trying to Gǣbe rightGǥ that is keeping this from happening and until you stop, the truth of the matter will not come to light.
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:Its just a less obvious form of trolling, but the technique is a deliberate "brick wall" attempt to demoralise the poster. No, the technique is a deliberate GÇ£do not accept evasions and demand answers to simple questions, especially if the answer should be obvious to the posterGÇ¥. It's not trolling GÇö it's asking the respondent to provide an actual argument and/or to state a case rather than to spew incoherent nonsense.
For instance, EP here accidentally made some claims about what's going on in nullsec, without being able to prove it. I'm asking him to either prove it or admit that he might not really have anything to back those claims up with. This is quite the opposite of trolling: it's asking him not to be a troll who just invents stuff and injects it as fact, and the supposed GÇ£brick wallGÇ¥ is just a rejection of all his attempts to evade the question (which, unfortunately, just further accumulates his trolling status). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Shazzam Vokanavom
Hedion University Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 23:03:00 -
[409] - Quote
Sasha Khaine wrote:I don't see why people get so wound up about it. It isn't like CSM members are given advantages in game or anything. I don't care who gets voted as long as they make something of it and improve the game for the better. They could all be from the same corporation for all I care. As long as they show some knowledge and commitment, I'm game.
Can I suggest you look up the term Meta Win then and re-examine their stance on who they represent. Simply by neglecting certian members of the playerbase they are applying a preference for their own interests. Something CCP has in their constitutional afforded significant guidance to avoid and declared they wont tolerate or afford for legitamacy.
You'll soon learn who has specific interests and don't consider the overall collective interest of the whole of EvE.
I can't emphasise this enough for newer players to research and determine for themselves who are really on the council for selfish interests and consider philanthropy as a weakness to their position. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4745
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 23:19:00 -
[410] - Quote
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:Can I suggest you look up the term Meta Win then and re-examine their stance on who they represent. Simply by neglecting certian members of the playerbase they are applying a preference for their own interests. Something CCP has in their constitutional afforded significant guidance to avoid and declared they wont tolerate or afford for legitamacy.
You'll soon learn who has specific interests and don't consider the overall collective interest of the whole of EvE. But that just raises the same old question that always comes up in these threads: so what? Has there been any case of a single entity gaining any kind of advantage from having a representative on the CSM?
We know one guy tried some insider dealing and got smacked down hard because of it (and in that case, he represented himself, not his corp/alliance iirc). Another got thrown out for (among other things) trying gain real-world advantages from the CSM seat. The key thing here is that they tried, and it didn't end well for them.
So is it in practice such a large problem if special interests are being represented on the council or if individual members only really represent their own (small or narrow) constituents?
Admittedly, it might be to ascribe more discretion and discipline to CCP than I would normally do, but without any clear examples of the CSM abusing their position, is it not at least a possibility that they manage to sanity-check any such excesses to keep them from happening? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
|
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 23:23:00 -
[411] - Quote
Selinate wrote: Still can't read apparently, since I quoted exactly what i originally put.
Good one....9/10.
Say what?
Read your first sentence closely. Then do it while replacing the sections in quotes with "A" and "B" respectively. See it?
Duh.
Now read your second sentence...it is a complete contradiction of what I quoted above. You did not quote exactly what you originally "put". (Put where? The verb is just floating there; begging to be abused and misused.)
Accusing others of illiteracy is ironic when it's done while mangling the semantics of the English language.
Thank you. This put-down brought to you courtesy of "The Tippia Way." Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
430
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 23:34:00 -
[412] - Quote
Cripes, what IS this thread? Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4745
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 23:39:00 -
[413] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Cripes, what IS this thread? The Eternum Praetorian Bullet Dancing ShowGäó, now on its 12th season. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
430
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 23:45:00 -
[414] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Seleene wrote:Cripes, what IS this thread? The Eternum Praetorian Bullet Dancing ShowGäó, now on its 12th season.
Damn, give me a torrent link so I can see who dies at the end of season 11. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1344
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 01:24:00 -
[415] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Tippia wrote:Seleene wrote:Cripes, what IS this thread? The Eternum Praetorian Bullet Dancing ShowGäó, now on its 12th season. Damn, give me a torrent link so I can see who dies at the end of season 11.
The gold starts in season 8, and new seasons have been coming out every 4-5 hours. The pace is absurd. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1344
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 01:28:00 -
[416] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:In regards to the question "Do null sec corps participate in RMT activities" the answer is yes.
Just for the simple fact that you can purchase a Titan for RL money means mean this is true since you can only build a Titan in Sov Space.
Say, for argument, I was an RMT dealer (which I am not). I probably have roughly 3 metric boatloads of liquid Isk. I want to add titans to my product list. I happen to know that some honest, non-RMT people build and sell Titans to anyone. I use one of my metric boatloads of Isk to buy a titan. Is that Alliance guilty of RMT?
Quote: Do we know which alliances sells Titans for RMT no.
So whilst we know that RMT does exist in all area's of space, including space which is owned by null sec alliances, we do not know who is involved.
We don't actually know either of these things. We may suspect them, but we have at this point no conclusive evidence. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1344
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 01:34:00 -
[417] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Selinate wrote:This praetorium fellow apparently is STILL butthurt over being proven wrong. This is from post #249 and at this point, he had not been factually proven wrong.
Onus probandi GÇô from Latin "onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat" the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim, not on the person who denies (or questions the claim).
We had no cause to even attempt to prove anything or make any claim whatsoever. All we did was demand evidence. At the point that he failed to provide such evidence necessary to support his claims, they may be summarily dismissed. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1344
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 01:36:00 -
[418] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Selinate wrote:Proven wrong over the fact that "There are RMT sites that I can find on google" does not equal "DRF space is botting and RMT central"
Yes. He has been proven wrong in that this is not a valid argument. I'd say it is only an outdated statement, being that the only reason why it is not still RMT and Botting central is because other regions have caught up. And I made that statement prior, solely in the hopes to find some common ground with Mr. Red Legion guy, only to later discover that he was not interested in doing so.
You wanted to find common ground with me by insulting me, my intelligence, and those who I associate with. Did you really think that that would work out well? Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1344
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 01:56:00 -
[419] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I made a detailed claim of precisely who is RMT'ing and botting in nullsec? Yes. That's how all of this started. If you made it in error, now (or, more accurately, 10 pages ago) would be a good time to say so. No, that is a different and completely irrelevant claim that no-one has ever questioned. I think you should quote the part where I submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. Because a statement like "Drone space is botting central" most certainly does not fall under that category, and at this point you have deviated so far from reality that I have no idea what you are talking about.
You know what, I will show you, link, and explain where you made each and every one of the 10 specific claims you made.
1) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of Botting in RED.L Space 2) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of RMT in RED.L Space 3) I personally have or should have specific knowledge that RED.L tolerates botting/RMT
"RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there." "Meaning that if you have not seen said things for yourself by now, then you must be living under a rock out there."
These statements, in the context of the posts immediately preceding them make claims 1-3. They do nothing to support said claims.
Saying that I must be "living under a rock" makes the claim that I should have specific knowledge of Botting/RMT in my alliance's space, or of an alliance policy tolerating said activities. Implied in the claim that I "should have knowledge" is the alternative claim that I do have knowledge but either I refuse to admit it, or I actively ignore it.
4) Botting Occurs in the Drone Region Federation 5) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating Botting 6) RMT Occurs in the Drone Region Federation 7) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating RMT 8) All of 4-7 are more true of the Drone Region Federation than of ANY OTHER PLACE in EVE 9) Any or all of 4-7 are true of the Drone Region Federation to a concentrated enough extent that they can be accurately called "Bot/RMT Central" 10) RED.L is a part of the Drone Region Federation
"Ruby, I have obviously made him angry. I enjoy his nerdy forum rage and half baked stabs at me. Forum troll tears are the very best tears of them all. To you I can only say that you live in the very heart of RMT/ Botting central." "But, your taking a stance that directly contradicts the observations of many others. So... believe what you want. This is a thread about CSM corruption and water not being wet from what I recall. Why don't you go and make a "drone regions have no RMT and no Botters thread" and see what kind of response it gets."
And there you have the other 6 claims.
The second quote fairly directly makes the claim that my Alliance is part of the DRF(10), and is why all of the rest of the claims stemming from this refer to the DRF. "The Heart of RMT/Botting Central," besides being redundant, directly claims that botting and RMT occurs in the DRF (4&6) and claims 8&9(9 being a subset of 8)(omitted to save space). That phrase also indirectly claims that there is a policy (official or not) of tolerating such activities in the DRF(5&7), as no place becomes the center of an activity without knowing about it and actively tolerating it.
So there you have it. Direct quotes and a quick explanation of how you made the claims that I want you to provide evidence for. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
164
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 02:07:00 -
[420] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: At the point that he failed to provide such evidence necessary to support his claims, they may be summarily dismissed.
That's okay....your prerogative. "Dismissing" his claims are fine, but notwithstanding what the ancient Romans thought, it must be rightfully pointed out that the claim has not been dis-proven as well.
Ah...the Internet.
The world wouldn't have a warrior class without it. Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? |
|
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
238
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 02:48:00 -
[421] - Quote
Hurray for rubyPorta the one man parade, rofle stomping everyone. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
Disdaine
236
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 02:59:00 -
[422] - Quote
Eve must be one deep sandbox to fit so many heads. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8497
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 03:09:00 -
[423] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I made a detailed claim of precisely who is RMT'ing and botting in nullsec? Yes. That's how all of this started. If you made it in error, now (or, more accurately, 10 pages ago) would be a good time to say so. No, that is a different and completely irrelevant claim that no-one has ever questioned. I think you should quote the part where I submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. Because a statement like "Drone space is botting central" most certainly does not fall under that category, and at this point you have deviated so far from reality that I have no idea what you are talking about. You know what, I will show you, link, and explain where you made each and every one of the 10 specific claims you made. 1) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of Botting in RED.L Space 2) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of RMT in RED.L Space 3) I personally have or should have specific knowledge that RED.L tolerates botting/RMT "RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there.""Meaning that if you have not seen said things for yourself by now, then you must be living under a rock out there."These statements, in the context of the posts immediately preceding them make claims 1-3. They do nothing to support said claims. Saying that I must be "living under a rock" makes the claim that I should have specific knowledge of Botting/RMT in my alliance's space, or of an alliance policy tolerating said activities. Implied in the claim that I "should have knowledge" is the alternative claim that I do have knowledge but either I refuse to admit it, or I actively ignore it. 4) Botting Occurs in the Drone Region Federation 5) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating Botting 6) RMT Occurs in the Drone Region Federation 7) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating RMT 8) All of 4-7 are more true of the Drone Region Federation than of ANY OTHER PLACE in EVE 9) Any or all of 4-7 are true of the Drone Region Federation to a concentrated enough extent that they can be accurately called "Bot/RMT Central" 10) RED.L is a part of the Drone Region Federation "Ruby, I have obviously made him angry. I enjoy his nerdy forum rage and half baked stabs at me. Forum troll tears are the very best tears of them all. To you I can only say that you live in the very heart of RMT/ Botting central." "But, your taking a stance that directly contradicts the observations of many others. So... believe what you want. This is a thread about CSM corruption and water not being wet from what I recall. Why don't you go and make a "drone regions have no RMT and no Botters thread" and see what kind of response it gets."And there you have the other 6 claims. The second quote fairly directly makes the claim that my Alliance is part of the DRF(10), and is why all of the rest of the claims stemming from this refer to the DRF. "The Heart of RMT/Botting Central," besides being redundant, directly claims that botting and RMT occurs in the DRF (4&6) and claims 8&9(9 being a subset of 8)(omitted to save space). That phrase also indirectly claims that there is a policy (official or not) of tolerating such activities in the DRF(5&7), as no place becomes the center of an activity without knowing about it and actively tolerating it. So there you have it. Direct quotes and a quick explanation of how you made the claims that I want you to provide evidence for. No but see you're wrong because Eternum Praetorian thinks he is right. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM. |
Shazzam Vokanavom
Hedion University Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 03:17:00 -
[424] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Hurray for rubyPorta the one man parade, rofle stomping everyone.
Normally he might simply stand behind Lady Spank, egging her on with the TrollSpam.
I actually see the new approach of vibrant content as a welcome change to debating method, and its at least "seems" informative in the process. |
Aggressive Nutmeg
104
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 03:20:00 -
[425] - Quote
Zirse wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Well I think I'm living proof its possible for an independent from a small corp/alliance to win the CSM elections. I was the first chair of the CSM defeating Darius Johnson of Goonswarm and Hardin of the CVA who both had huge alliance blocs behind them simply by running a high profile campaign and doing a lot of hard work on the campaign trail (and having an excellent team behind me).
So it is possible.
But that said, I do think its got harder for independent candidates recently to compete with the alliance blocs and there has been some evidence of "rigging" (4 hour trial accounts etc) I guess "exploiting weaknesses in the voting system" might be closer to the mark since what Goonswarm did last time is the virtual equivilence of lorry driving in homeless people from another state and registering them to vote for a particular candidate in exchange for a bottle of hooch to play havoc with the ordinary voting demographics.
This is pretty easy to fix. Trial accounts don't get a vote. I'd be inclined to say that there should be a minimum age of character that should vote too. Maybe 1 month. It won't entirely solve election manipulation but it'll help.
But the bigger issue is that 0.0 alliance blocs will always find it easier to pressgang their members into voting than the vast unwashed hoards of highsec. And in a system where minority actually vote you get fringe mentalist candidates dominating the story.
I think CCP need to take a leaf from Australia's voting system and make voting mandatory for every eve player who is on a full account and has existed for one month. During the voting period you get a pop up on the launcher that prompts you to cast a vote. CCP already has the ability to randomize the order of candidates on the voting page - so no alphabetic favouritism and let the candidates stand on their message. (abstain should be an option of course)
In exchange for the inconvenience a six pack of quafe zero arrives in the hanger of the person who just voted.
Everyone wins, democracy triumphs - no more CSM chairs with complete dominance of the council voted by a tiny fraction of the player base. Here's how it will go down: Player: What the hell is this ****? Since I just want to play, and I don't really care about this ****, I'm picking this one because of :boobs: in the portrait. Or the one with green lipstick and yellow eye shadow because :lol:. In the end you have a CSM that isn't vetted by the players interested enough in having a stake in the CSM. Mandatory voting blows. Sorry Australia. I love all the opposition to mandatory voting. These power blocs know full well they'd be GOOOOOOOONE if CCP gently encouraged ALL players to have their say.
These big Eve gangs (full of wannabes) are not in favour of a democratic system they can't control and manipulate.
CSM elections are very much like American politics. No representation - just a competition to see which well-connected millionaire/billionaire gets given the job.
Oh, and I've seen the CCP/CSM videos on youtbe. There is no way I'd be voting for any of those weak, awkward, unprofessional dickwads.
ps. Australia rocks. Wouldn't catch me living anywhere else on the planet. Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
238
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 03:22:00 -
[426] - Quote
Yeah if he keeps up those habits we are gonna have to vote him in as the new member of G. I. JOE. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1344
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 04:08:00 -
[427] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:RubyPorto wrote: At the point that he failed to provide such evidence necessary to support his claims, they may be summarily dismissed. That's okay....your prerogative. "Dismissing" his claims are fine, but notwithstanding what the ancient Romans thought, it must be rightfully pointed out that the claim has not been dis-proven as well. Ah...the Internet. The world wouldn't have a warrior class without it.
It is *IMPOSSIBLE* to prove a negative. Asking someone who questions someone's baseless claim to refute that claim before the claimant provides evidence is ridiculous, and not how reasoned discourse occurs.
I hereby claim that you, MeestaPenni, are involved in the Russian Mafia. According to your proposed rules of discourse, you must now categorically disprove that claim, or we may take it as a fact that you are involved in the Russian Mafia.
Now, to disprove that, you would have to prove that EVERY SINGLE business dealing you EVER had, had nothing to do with the Russian Mafia. Furthermore, you would have to prove that you have never, in any way, shape, or form, provided assistance, material or otherwise, to the Russian Mafia.
See how that burden is impossible to live up to? That is why we do not try to shift the burden of proof away from the claimant, and on to the person denying or questioning the claim.
Further Reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
At this point, I retract my claim (made for the purposes of argument), that you, MeestaPenni, are involved in the Russian Mafia. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8497
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 04:18:00 -
[428] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: At this point, I retract my claim (made for the purposes of argument), that you, MeestaPenni, are involved in the Russian Mafia.
What is your opinion of the rumour that "The Mittani" is secretly Vladimir Putin? Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1344
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 04:22:00 -
[429] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:RubyPorto wrote: At this point, I retract my claim (made for the purposes of argument), that you, MeestaPenni, are involved in the Russian Mafia.
What is your opinion of the rumour that "The Mittani" is secretly Vladimir Putin?
I've seen Mittens, and I don't think he would inspire 1000 women to get fondled by a guy so he could shake hands with Mittens and pass the fondlies on.
Like Putin Did. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 04:24:00 -
[430] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:What is your opinion of the rumour that "The Mittani" is secretly Vladimir Putin? You mean we don't exist in a socialist totalitarian regime? Wait a moment, we have to defend ourselves against SPAIS, we can't admit to the hidden source of our ~ non-elite pvp ~ power.
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:I love all the opposition to mandatory voting. These power blocs know full well they'd be GOOOOOOOONE if CCP gently encouraged ALL players to have their say. -puppetmasta-
That's why every single highsec person on the EVE-O forums ever would make an amazing candidate. Please, all of you, ever, need to run. That'll show us evil riggers/manupulators of the current system which may or may not change. But if your candidates outnumber us 99:1, you're the 99% and that makes you - powerful - as anything. |
|
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8497
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 04:29:00 -
[431] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:What is your opinion of the rumour that "The Mittani" is secretly Vladimir Putin? You mean we don't exist in a socialist totalitarian regime? Wait a moment, we have to defend ourselves against SPAIS, we can't admit to the hidden source of our ~ non-elite pvp ~ power. Right! Confirming that The Mittani is most definitely NOT Vladimir Putin.
Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8497
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 04:30:00 -
[432] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:I love all the opposition to mandatory voting. These power blocs know full well they'd be GOOOOOOOONE if CCP gently encouraged ALL players to have their say. -puppetmasta- That's why every single highsec person on the EVE-O forums ever would make an amazing candidate. Please, all of you, ever, need to run. That'll show us evil riggers/manupulators of the current system which may or may not change. But if your candidates outnumber us 99:1, you're the 99% and that makes you - powerful - as anything. Where did this post go? I keep hunting for it in this thread but I don't see it, and it automatically pops into my posting box whenever I hit the "quote," and I am very confused. Like, I just hit "quote," and here is all this text that wasn't in the post that I quoted when I hit the "quote" button to quote it. I am very confused. What the hell is going on. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 04:53:00 -
[433] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Where did this post go? I keep hunting for it in this thread but I don't see it, and it automatically pops into my posting box whenever I hit the "quote," and I am very confused. Like, I just hit "quote," and here is all this text that wasn't in the post that I quoted when I hit the "quote" button to quote it. I am very confused. What the hell is going on. I don't get it, but sounds like the forums are messing with you. Buggy?
They're trying to censor our denial of the ultrasecret power of Goonswarm. Long live the Mittani! Long live bees! |
Selinate
643
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 05:15:00 -
[434] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Selinate wrote: Still can't read apparently, since I quoted exactly what i originally put.
Good one....9/10. Say what?Read your first sentence closely. Then do it while replacing the sections in quotes with "A" and "B" respectively. See it? Duh. Now read your second sentence...it is a complete contradiction of what I quoted above. You did not quote exactly what you originally "put". (Put where? The verb is just floating there; begging to be abused and misused.) Accusing others of illiteracy is ironic when it's done while mangling the semantics of the English language. Thank you. This put-down brought to you courtesy of "The Tippia Way."
Just quit while you're behind. First sentence says he has been proven wrong. Second says how he has been proven wrong. He has been proven wrong in that his argument is invalid, or in that what was quoted is not a valid argument. They mean exactly what I meant for them to mean, and you are quite simply wrong.
If you're going to try to be a grammar na.zi... then at least try to be... you know... correct. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1344
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 05:27:00 -
[435] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Hurray for rubyPorta the one man parade, rofle stomping everyone.
My train of thought on reading this. "Hey Cool, he likes me. Huh, I could make pedantic fun of that post. But should I really troll an admirer? On the other hand, I do really like pedantry..." Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1344
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 05:29:00 -
[436] - Quote
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote: ps. Australia rocks. Wouldn't catch me living anywhere else on the planet.
Profoundly Disturbed is primarily populated by Aussies. None of us normal people can understand a word of what those criminals say. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
164
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 05:38:00 -
[437] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: It is *IMPOSSIBLE* to prove a negative.
Forum warriors have been using that one for years. Unfortunately, it's an obscure paradox; rendering it useless for any kind of "point" making. To demonstrate.....prove it. Whirl that one around for awhile.
Regardless, it has no bearing on this discussion anyway. Given that the "negative" here is, ""X" does not bot or RMT from "Y" space", it should seem obvious that a good deal of support and evidence could be offered to "prove this negative."
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? |
bilingi
Ghosts of the Storm
27
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 05:42:00 -
[438] - Quote
Basicly The RED L guy has done everything he can With Tippias Help and some idiot from CSM to steer thread away from fact He And Tippia and CSM all if they dont outright support it turn a blind Eye to RMTers out in 0.0..... Thats about the gist of the last couple of posts. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1344
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 05:50:00 -
[439] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:RubyPorto wrote: It is *IMPOSSIBLE* to prove a negative.
Forum warriors have been using that one for years. Unfortunately, it's an obscure paradox; rendering it useless for any kind of "point" making. To demonstrate.....prove it. Whirl that one around for awhile. Regardless, it has no bearing on this discussion anyway. Given that the "negative" here is, ""X" does not bot or RMT from "Y" space", it should seem obvious that a good deal of support and evidence could be offered to "prove this negative."
It is not at all an obscure paradox, and I showed an example of why it's ridiculous to shift the burden of proof away from the claimant. Gonna get back to me with your exhaustive proof that you're not connected to the Russian Mafia?
The issue with asking me to show evidence (let alone proof) of the negative (which in absence of evidence to assert the positive claim is assumed true) is that I never claimed any such thing. I merely asked Eternum to provide the merest scrap of evidence to support his claim. This went on for 12 pages, with me and Tippia asking for evidence, and Eternum yelling... something.
As for another example of why shifting the burden of proof is a fallacy in informal logic. Let's say I live in a world where all sheep are white. This world is also a shepherding world, so there are a LOT of sheep, so I've never seen the one off color sheep, nor has anyone I've ever met, nor have I been told any tales of an off color sheep. Say someone comes up to me and says "There is an Off-Color sheep." Would I be justified in asking him for evidence to back his claim up, or would I be required to inspect every single sheep on the planet to make sure there are no off color sheep before telling him he's full of it? Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1344
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 05:57:00 -
[440] - Quote
bilingi wrote: Basicly The RED L guy has done everything he can With Tippias Help and some idiot from CSM to steer thread away from fact He And Tippia and CSM all if they dont outright support it turn a blind Eye to RMTers out in 0.0..... Thats about the gist of the last couple of posts.
We have made no claim relating to, nor have we made any judgement on Botting or RMT. We have simply refused to accept a claim as true without evidence of the same.
I think RMT (outside CCP's control) is clearly bad for the game. I think Botting may be bad for the game (cheap PvP is good for the game, but inflation is bad for the game, and I'm not sure where the balance lands). But that is not what the argument has been about.
So you're stuffing our faces with words that sound nothing like the one's we say.
bilingi has basically been saying that he wants the Mittani to remain CSM chair for all eternity, and draw a salary directly from bilingi's checking account for that purpose.
See, I can fill your mouth with words too. Claiming that you said those words does not make it so.
If you can find a post where I support RMT, please, please, quote it. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
|
Prince Kobol
182
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 11:32:00 -
[441] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:In regards to the question "Do null sec corps participate in RMT activities" the answer is yes.
Just for the simple fact that you can purchase a Titan for RL money means mean this is true since you can only build a Titan in Sov Space.
Say, for argument, I was an RMT dealer (which I am not). I probably have roughly 3 metric boatloads of liquid Isk. I want to add titans to my product list. I happen to know that some honest, non-RMT people build and sell Titans to anyone. I use one of my metric boatloads of Isk to buy a titan. Is that Alliance guilty of RMT? Quote: Do we know which alliances sells Titans for RMT no.
So whilst we know that RMT does exist in all area's of space, including space which is owned by null sec alliances, we do not know who is involved.
We don't actually know either of these things. We may suspect them, but we have at this point no conclusive evidence.
Some interesting points here.
Regarding the Titan, it all depends how said Titan was purchased. If somebody purchased the Titan using isk in game and sold then titan outside of Eve then Yes, the alliance who built it is NOT guilty.
However, where would you keep the titan between you purchasing the Titan and then selling it for RL money?
If we use Ockham's razor, the simplest explanation is usually the most plausible, then it will be the alliances selling the Titans and not somebody in a NPC Corp or a small corp who is purchasing the Titans and then selling them for RL money.
I understand the argument of that we have no 100% conclusive proof, I have used it myself, however what we do know for a fact is that RMT Exists in a large scale.
Just a simple google search will show many sites selling all kind of things from skill books, BPO,s, BPC packs, Ships of all levels, ammo, materials etc.
So from that we can presume that there are corps and alliances in Eve are involved in RMT.
From here we can presume that these corps and alliances have a presence in all area's in Eve, especially null as by the very nature of null space it is easier to build ships, collect valuable modules and defend against prying eyes.
That is unless of course you are saying that it is a only a few people in NPC's corps creating all these items that are for sale for RL Money.
The only thing I will never do is accuse a person / corp / alliance of directly being involved of RMT until somebody has 100% proof which I have never seen.
I have seen lots of theories, conjecture, suspicious looking NPC kills on dotlan, but nothing which can be called direct evidence and most likely never will.
|
bilingi
Ghosts of the Storm
27
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 11:54:00 -
[442] - Quote
ERRRr im retired Mittens has his on RMT empire.. SO he doesnt need my account.... And i actually voted for him just because i think the CSM is useless hahahaha..
But hey keep throwing out that smoke screen..... |
Aramatheia
Traveler 52 D-Collective
16
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 11:59:00 -
[443] - Quote
meh its expected that alliances will vote for candidates within thier own numbers, i see no issue there, if 4000 humans who play in null/low want to vote on 1 guy/girl then great.
Only thing i think is an issue is where those 4000 people can then use thier numerous (or not) alts to muscle the votes out of proportion.
All these posts about democracy. Any legitimate election anywhere on the planet only allows each voter to make 1 vote. No vote vote vote vote vote for how many cats dogs birds and fish they have too. Thats the only major imbalance with eve's csm voting that i can see.
Find a way to limit votes to 1 per person or the problem of double triple endless votes from each user will carry on |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
471
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 12:40:00 -
[444] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: and Eternum yelling... something.
Oh did you mean this?
Quote:If I say that a public domain possesses easy and readily available information on the subject, and in great multitude, then that is my stance. Your insistence to provide google searches and links for the readier, is in fact, directly contradictory to my stance. You and Mr Red Legion guy have chosen to use that perspective as fodder for more then 3 pages, like some idiot politician running a smear campaign because they have nothing truly of substance to offer.
I CANNOT possibly ACCURATELY represent, on these gaming forums, the ORGY of information that would suddenly appear to the reader if they bothered to type a short string of words into google, it is FAR TO VAST and you know that. Thus, your tireless baiting of me, and I am not biting, nor will I be swayed or manipulated by such transparent and weak drivel.. My proof exists in full, beyond this gaming venue and it is 100% Contingent on it's state of easy accessibility to everyone who desires to seek it out.
1. Information: is public, readily available and easy to find. 2. Location:internet browser 3. Key words: "RMT MMO's" "Bots MMORPG's" "RMT and Botting MMO's" or any other combination. 4. Potential reading material: consists of literally millions of pages of text, all with remarkably similar information. proving that RMT and Botting are now commonplace in ALL Major MMO's
Let me dumb it down even more, just to see how far you will go to manipulate a basic and fundamental reality of modern day gaiming.
If All modern day MMO's have substantial botting and RMT (and thus secondary markets) in them
Then So does EVE
Thus One could expect to find them just about anywhere, from drone space to empire & tied to places they feel can make them the most profit.
Now if you want to make a claim that some region of null sec is both botting and RMT free... I suggest you submit tangible evidence proving your stance, besides "I don't see any" lol, or just STFU already.
Proudly continuing to **** in your Cheerios, Eternum Praetorian. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4745
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 12:50:00 -
[445] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Thus One could expect to find them just about anywhere, from drone space to empire. Once could, but there is no evidence for it.
Quote:Now if you want to make a claim that some region of null sec is both botting and RMT free... I suggest you submit tangible evidence proving your stance, besides "I don't see any" lol, or just STFU already. Or, how about, if you want to make a claim that some region of null sec is full of bots and that some corps/alliances are ripe with RMT (you know, like you did), the rest of us suggest that you submit tangible evidence proving your stance beyond pointless generalities or just STFU. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 12:59:00 -
[446] - Quote
I would repost RubyPorto's list of ten things that you must prove or retract, but it disappeared somewhere in the 23 pages of general asshattery, baiting/counterbaiting, trying to make sense, trying to do everything to not make sense, attempting red herrings and so on and so forth.
So sorry, I can only remember the 3 first:
1) Where is your evidence that the DRF as alliances RMT's - either by doing so on alliance or corp level or by accepting members who do? 2) Where is your evidence that the DRF members turn their blind eye towards these RMT'ers? 3) If you have this evidence, why do you claim it on the forum but, seemingly, do not report it directly to CCP so they can handle it? |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
471
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 13:02:00 -
[447] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Thus One could expect to find them just about anywhere, from drone space to empire & tied to places they feel can make them the most profit.
Once could, but there is no evidence for it. .
I still have the little white stick of my victory lollipop from yesterday, sitting on my desk here. I don't have the patience or the time to spend next two days face rolling you again. But I may take a screen capture of page 20 and 21 for the sake of posterity. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
27
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 13:05:00 -
[448] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I still have the little white stick of my victory lollipop from yesterday, sitting on my desk here. I don't have the patience or the time to spend next two days face rolling you again. But I may take a screen capture of page 20 and 21 for the sake of posterity. I have news for you. You failed to prove anything and made yourself look stupid . All that typing and you still couldn't prove anything or get your point across. I'm sure this is hard for you to accept and have to somehow make yourself feel better by imagining that you 'won' the argument but tbh you just look bitter and clueless. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4745
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 13:08:00 -
[449] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I still have the little white stick of my victory lollipop from yesterday, sitting on my desk here. Well, I suppose a victory lollipop, and the vague memories of it will have to do in the absence of any actual victory. You should hang on to that stick for dear life, because by the looks of it, it's as close to the real thing as you'll ever going to get.
Quote:I don't have the patience or the time to spend next two days face rolling you again. So you finally admit, then, that you cannot provide a shred of evidence to support your claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom? Because that's pretty much the only way to avoid going through this whole process of me asking you to provide said evidence and you failing to do so over and over (and over) again. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
471
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 13:08:00 -
[450] - Quote
...and make that screen capture my desktop background. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4745
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 13:10:00 -
[451] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:...and make that screen capture my desktop background. I approve. If you want to plaster it across your desktop as a constant reminder of you failing to argue your case, then that's probably a good thing, at least if it reminds you never to do such a foolish thing again. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
471
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 13:19:00 -
[452] - Quote
Across two screens, page 20 for the left and 21 for the right. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
132
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 13:22:00 -
[453] - Quote
Epeen, the only important goal of the modern EvE player.
Actually all I see is woefull E-Lawyers trying to derail each other, sad really.
"All griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems." |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
164
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 14:32:00 -
[454] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Actually all I see is woefull E-Lawyers trying to derail each other, sad really.
Hey, when you don't have much time to log in to Tranquility, it's the only PvP you can get.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
471
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 14:54:00 -
[455] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Actually all I see is woefull E-Lawyers trying to derail each other, sad really. Hey, when you don't have much time to log in to Tranquility, it's the only PvP you can get.
Indeed. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1344
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:10:00 -
[456] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:In regards to the question "Do null sec corps participate in RMT activities" the answer is yes.
Just for the simple fact that you can purchase a Titan for RL money means mean this is true since you can only build a Titan in Sov Space.
Say, for argument, I was an RMT dealer (which I am not). I probably have roughly 3 metric boatloads of liquid Isk. I want to add titans to my product list. I happen to know that some honest, non-RMT people build and sell Titans to anyone. I use one of my metric boatloads of Isk to buy a titan. Is that Alliance guilty of RMT? Quote: Do we know which alliances sells Titans for RMT no.
So whilst we know that RMT does exist in all area's of space, including space which is owned by null sec alliances, we do not know who is involved.
We don't actually know either of these things. We may suspect them, but we have at this point no conclusive evidence. Some interesting points here. Regarding the Titan, it all depends how said Titan was purchased. If somebody purchased the Titan using isk in game and sold then titan outside of Eve then Yes, the alliance who built it is NOT guilty. However, where would you keep the titan between you purchasing the Titan and then selling it for RL money? If we use Ockham's razor, the simplest explanation is usually the most plausible, then it will be the alliances selling the Titans and not somebody in a NPC Corp or a small corp who is purchasing the Titans and then selling them for RL money. I understand the argument of that we have no 100% conclusive proof, I have used it myself, however what we do know for a fact is that RMT Exists in a large scale. Just a simple google search will show many sites selling all kind of things from skill books, BPO,s, BPC packs, Ships of all levels, ammo, materials etc. So from that we can presume that there are corps and alliances in Eve are involved in RMT. From here we can presume that these corps and alliances have a presence in all area's in Eve, especially null as by the very nature of null space it is easier to build ships, collect valuable modules and defend against prying eyes. That is unless of course you are saying that it is a only a few people in NPC's corps creating all these items that are for sale for RL Money. The only thing I will never do is accuse a person / corp / alliance of directly being involved of RMT until somebody has 100% proof which I have never seen. I have seen lots of theories, conjecture, suspicious looking NPC kills on dotlan, but nothing which can be called direct evidence and most likely never will.
Garage Alts for storing Titans.
Occam's Razor is a rule of thumb, and only cuts the way you say it does if you start with the assumption that Alliances are involved in RMT. Start with the simpler assumption that RMTers are independant actors, and buying things with ISK (including garage alts for Titans and Supers) become the simplest solution.
But I agree, there's unlikely to be conclusive evidence either way, and either option could be simpler depending on your starting assumptions.
I would guess that there are individuals in most coalitions and areas of space who bot, and individuals who RMT. However, I have absolutely no evidence of that, so let's call that a hunch. There's no way I could extrapolate from that hunch a claim, or even a hunch that some alliance leaders tolerate or endorse such behavior.
I don't particularly want to make any positive claims, because I don't actually have any positive claims I'm interested in debating. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1344
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:18:00 -
[457] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote: and Eternum yelling... something. Oh did you mean this? Quote:If I say that a public domain possesses easy and readily available information on the subject, and in great multitude, then that is my stance. Your insistence to provide google searches and links for the readier, is in fact, directly contradictory to my stance. You and Mr Red Legion guy have chosen to use that perspective as fodder for more then 3 pages, like some idiot politician running a smear campaign because they have nothing truly of substance to offer.
I CANNOT possibly ACCURATELY represent, on these gaming forums, the ORGY of information that would suddenly appear to the reader if they bothered to type a short string of words into google, it is FAR TO VAST and you know that. Thus, your tireless baiting of me, and I am not biting, nor will I be swayed or manipulated by such transparent and weak drivel.. My proof exists in full, beyond this gaming venue and it is 100% Contingent on it's state of easy accessibility to everyone who desires to seek it out.
1. Information: is public, readily available and easy to find. 2. Location:internet browser 3. Key words: "RMT MMO's" "Bots MMORPG's" "RMT and Botting MMO's" or any other combination. 4. Potential reading material: consists of literally millions of pages of text, all with remarkably similar information. proving that RMT and Botting are now commonplace in ALL Major MMO's Let me dumb it down even more, just to see how far you will go to manipulate a basic and fundamental reality of modern day gaiming. If All modern day MMO's have substantial botting and RMT (and thus secondary markets) in them ThenSo does EVE Thus One could expect to find them just about anywhere, from drone space to empire & tied to places they feel can make them the most profit. Now if you want to make a claim that some region of null sec is both botting and RMT free... I suggest you submit tangible evidence proving your stance, besides "I don't see any" lol, or just STFU already. Proudly continuing to **** in your Cheerios, Eternum Praetorian.
Eternum, we're still on the specific claims you made way back around page 8. Once you deal with providing evidence to support those claims (or retract them), I'd be happy to discuss the general state of botting and RMT in EvE or the general state of search engines with you.
As for that little syllogism, you need evidence to prove that the first statement is a categorical truth (in other words prove that every single MMO has substantial botting and RMT). I'll grant you that there's evidence that the second statement has some truth to it. And then third one; One could indeed expect so, but to claim so would require evidence to back that claim up.
As for trying to prove a negative, in the absence of any evidence to back up your positive claim, my asking for evidence is sufficient to refute the claim until evidence is provided, me actually giving testimonial evidence "I don't see any" is unnecessary overkill. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2765
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:32:00 -
[458] - Quote
so about 4 pages discussing bloc voting and 20 pages of screeching argument about rmt in the drone regions
The Office of the Chairman: A Thread for Constituent Issues |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
238
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:49:00 -
[459] - Quote
You should get a monocle Mittani, distract the lowly players from their drone region RMT worries. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
471
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:53:00 -
[460] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:As for trying to prove a negative, in the absence of any evidence to back up your positive claim, my asking for evidence is sufficient to refute the claim until evidence is provided, me actually giving testimonial evidence "I don't see any" is unnecessary overkill.
Eternum Praetorian wrote:If I say that a public domain possesses easy and readily available information on the subject, and in great multitude, then that is my stance. Your insistence to provide google searches and links for the readier, is in fact, directly contradictory to my stance. You and Mr Red Legion guy have chosen to use that perspective as fodder for more then 3 pages, like some idiot politician running a smear campaign because they have nothing truly of substance to offer.
I CANNOT possibly ACCURATELY represent, on these gaming forums, the ORGY of information that would suddenly appear to the reader if they bothered to type a short string of words into google, it is FAR TO VAST and you know that. Thus, your tireless baiting of me, and I am not biting, nor will I be swayed or manipulated by such transparent and weak drivel.. My proof exists in full, beyond this gaming venue and it is 100% Contingent on it's state of easy accessibility to everyone who desires to seek it out.
1. Information: is public, readily available and easy to find. 2. Location:internet browser 3. Key words: "RMT MMO's" "Bots MMORPG's" "RMT and Botting MMO's" or any other combination. 4. Potential reading material: consists of literally millions of pages of text, all with remarkably similar information. proving that RMT and Botting are now commonplace in ALL Major MMO's
All you have submitted so far is "I don't see any bots out here", so I guess that is the length and breadth of your counter argument. OK, then. If you have anything more then that to support your claims, we would love to hear it. If not, well... there are millions of pages of videos, blogs and magazine articles allover the internet outlining the occurrence, causes and extent of Bots and RMT in all modern day MMO's, including EVE Online.
But by all means keep on, your making a better case against yourself with your long winded dodging of facts then I ever could on my own. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
|
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:58:00 -
[461] - Quote
The last person to post before this thread gets locked for going off topic wins. I'll start...........
I win. |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2765
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 17:01:00 -
[462] - Quote
rodyas wrote:You should get a monocle Mittani, distract the lowly players from their drone region RMT worries.
most of the stuff in the nex store is declasse The Office of the Chairman: A Thread for Constituent Issues |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4745
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 17:02:00 -
[463] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:All you have submitted so far is "I don't see any bots out here", so I guess that is the length and breadth of your counter argument. GǪand here's the thing: in doing so, he has offered more proof for the current situation than you have. If you want to counter his submission, you have to provide some evidence of your own in regards to what's going in in the specific case(s) we're talking about GÇö you just keep adding general statements that do not support the level of detail you're claiming.
I'm sure you'd love to hear more in support of his claim, but he has already offered far more than he needs since you have offered abslutely nothing to refute it.
At best, you have offered a hypothesis, but without anything to conform or falsify it, it's a thoroughly useless addition.
Oh, andGǪQuote:your making a better case against yourself with your long winded dodging of facts then I ever could on my own. GǪseeing as how no facts have been offered for him to dodge, he has not been able to be long-winded in his dodging of them, which drastically worsens the case you're trying to build. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
43
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 17:43:00 -
[464] - Quote
bilingi wrote: no DIRECT EVIDENCE? HHAHAAHHAa so whos creating isk and super caps and such for these rmt sites.. SOme of those ships can only be done with allaince resources.....
Thats funny. No direct evidence.....SO which RMT site is yours?
QFT !!
The general population of Eve is not fooled by the pitiful attempts of Botters and RMT riff-raff to cover their tracks and obscure the issue with demands of item by item proofs of what is patentely clear to any thinking player. The fact that many specific items for sale on the web, such as capital ships, rare items and the sheer volume of resources made availble for sale is bona face evidence that Alliances are involved because of the effort level needed to supply them.
Isn't it funny how the roaches in an infested house scurry for cover when anyone shines a light on them. |
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
43
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:32:00 -
[465] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:In regards to the question "Do null sec corps participate in RMT activities" the answer is yes.
Just for the simple fact that you can purchase a Titan for RL money means mean this is true since you can only build a Titan in Sov Space.
Do we know which alliances sells Titans for RMT no.
So whilst we know that RMT does exist in all area's of space, including space which is owned by null sec alliances, we do not know who is involved.
What doesn't help is that I have not seen one member of the CSM actively come out and slam CCP for there apparent lack of action against those who are involved in RMT.
This also does not help the belief which is held by many that the reason the CSM do not actively campaign against RMT is because they are involved in some way shape or form.
There are quite a few measures that CCP can take to make life a lot harder for the RMT merchants yet for whatever reason they seem very reluctant to do so.
Again people think, rightly or wrongly, this is because of fear. CCP are aware who is involved and are scared of possibility of losing a large amount of null sec players if they punish those involved.
Which ever way you swing it, RMT is an issue in Eve and part of it is based in null sec and CCP either know who is involved and are turning a blind eye, or they are simply inept.
Either way, it is not good.
QFT |
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
43
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:35:00 -
[466] - Quote
bilingi wrote:If Red L isnt doing any of this why fight so hard to say you arent... Makes you look guilty. Which Some in Red L probably are.... ALL 0.0 residents are guilty because they know its happening and turn a blind eye. Reason I left is allaince was in wouldt let ya kill blue bots.
ROACHES! Running from the light... |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1031
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:44:00 -
[467] - Quote
Zirse wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Nice, straight to the point. +1 'Like'.
We can always hope that would happen but it's a sure bet that her 'Highness' will continuously spout her sanctimonious drivel in each and every thread posted in these forums. I sincerely think it might be due to massive amounts of hot air coming from an over inflated ego coupled with a nasty superiority complex.
I like that you can't attack any of Tippia's arguments so you just settle for insults.
I like how you try to step in and defend her *cough cough* honor. Tippia is quite capable of defending herself as well as attacking other players posted replies. The majority of her posting history shows she does that with extreme gusto at every opportunity. Maybe you should re-read my statement again, I said 'it might be due' and not 'it is due'.
FYI - In the past I've engaged in some discussions or 'arguments' pertaining to certain game mechanics and have found that it's a complete waste of time since neither I or Tippia will ever change our opinion / viewpoint.
Zirse wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:So you're young to unite all those people but leave wormhole alliances out of it? So Much for that balance you proposed. W-hole Alliances? Isn't W-Hole space the same as Null Sec or 0.0 Alliance space? I might be mistaken but I thought the 'Voice Of Reason Party' was a platform for independent corps, single player PvE careers, Industrialists, RP and high sec game mechanics? If not then I better go find another party. Although I would have to guess that someone who doesn't even know what wspace probably doesn't have much credibility to stand on in terms of game mechanics. I made a mistake and should have written it as : "W-hole Alliances? Isn't W-Hole Alliance Politics the same as Null Sec or 0.0 Alliance Politics?
Game Mechanics? I know quite a bit about various game mechanics that pertain to the activity's that I enjoy within the game. As for 'Credibility', I definitely have more of it to 'stand on' than you do.
|
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
239
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 19:12:00 -
[468] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:rodyas wrote:You should get a monocle Mittani, distract the lowly players from their drone region RMT worries. most of the stuff in the nex store is declasse
Maybe so, and your gonna have to wait longer for the worthy stuff to, if they do go the stripper pole route. Iceland has never had a king, so they dont know what classy things to put inside of it. Think the dutch have too much of an influence on them. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 19:21:00 -
[469] - Quote
thank you for ruining the whole thread and going COMPLETELY off topic tippia, you just cant help yourself can you... |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
1773
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 19:27:00 -
[470] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:thank you for ruining the whole thread and going COMPLETELY off topic tippia, you just cant help yourself can you...
On the bright side thanks to him something good and entertaining came from this otherwise horrible thread. |
|
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 19:28:00 -
[471] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:thank you for ruining the whole thread and going COMPLETELY off topic tippia, you just cant help yourself can you... On the bright side thanks to him something good and entertaining came from this otherwise horrible thread.
you his alt arent you? cos your talking as much $hit as he does... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4746
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 19:30:00 -
[472] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:thank you for ruining the whole thread and going COMPLETELY off topic tippia Perhaps you should actually read the thread. It's not like it was me who injected some unfounded and irrelevant claim into the whole thingGǪ
I know you have this irrational hatered for me that makes you say very silly things, but you're really stretching it now.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
472
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 20:03:00 -
[473] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Tippa is a mad panda
I was also thinking of taking that screen capture of me face rolling you on pages 20 and 21, and making it into a downloadable desktop background PDF named "Sunshine and lollipops". Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 20:09:00 -
[474] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:rodyas wrote:You should get a monocle Mittani, distract the lowly players from their drone region RMT worries. most of the stuff in the nex store is declasse
You seem a little attention starved in your last several posts here, is it because there is a threadnaught on the front page not focusing on you becoming prom queen? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4747
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 20:27:00 -
[475] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I came home to 23 likes, did that happen to everyone or am I just completely on fire here? What? You can actually make out a such a small difference in likes? That's fewer than I got on just the first page of this threadGǪ
Quote:I was also thinking of taking that screen capture of me face rolling you on pages 20 and 21 It's quite apparent that Gǣface rollingGǥ does not mean what you think it means, if that's the way you use itGǪ
By the way, are you ever going to provide any evidence to support your detailed claim about who does what where and under the auspices of whom? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 20:32:00 -
[476] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I came home to 23 likes, did that happen to everyone or am I just completely on fire here? What? You can actually make out a such a small difference in likes? That's fewer than I got on just the first page of this threadGǪ Quote:I was also thinking of taking that screen capture of me face rolling you on pages 20 and 21 It's quite apparent that Gǣface rollingGǥ does not mean what you think it means, if that's the way you use itGǪ By the way, are you ever going to provide any evidence to support your detailed claim about who does what where and under the auspices of whom?
& T-shirts.... I can make Tippa got caught manipulating facts T-shirts! Photshop a little tear on your portrait and I can RMT my way to a new car down payment. WooT! Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Swearte Widfarend
Mortis Noir. Unforgiving.
22
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 20:35:00 -
[477] - Quote
Ira Theos wrote:I'm surpised that anyone other than the Goons are even in the CSM. If the Mittani coordinated and allocated his troop's votes better, he could capture all the CSM seats.
Not very good at math?
Each account gets one vote. At worst, Goonswarm has 7565 accounts. (that's assuming each account has only one character in Goonswarm, which is probably a bad assumption).
It took around 2000 votes to get on CSM 6. At best, that's 3 seats on a council of 9. Actually, I think they got two, not three, but The Mittani also got like 5000 votes total. You do the math. It's not numerically likely that Goonswarm could completely control the CSM. Goonswarm, TEST, and the Technetium Bloc (Pandemic Legion/Ev0ke/Raiden/Northern Coalition.) might be able to claim 4-5 of the nine seats. I'd be surprised if they took 6. That leaves room for other well organized groups to gain a voice.
So organize, work within the system and get a candidate. Then, when you've voted and nothing you care about is brought to light in the CSM/CCP summits, you can complain like a good voter - one who participated. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4747
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 20:35:00 -
[478] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I can make Tippa got caught manipulating facts T-shirts!! That would be false advertising, not to mention using my likeness without my permission, so no, you probably couldn't.
You do realise that you didn't actually caught me manipulating anything (for the simple reason that I never did), right?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 20:51:00 -
[479] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I can make Tippa got caught manipulating facts T-shirts!! That would be false advertising, not to mention using my likeness without my permission, so no, you probably couldn't. You do realise that you didn't actually caught me manipulating anything (for the simple reason that I never did), right? Oh, and: are you ever going to provide any evidence to support your detailed claim about who does what where and under the auspices of whom?
Tippa what do you think?
Hmm... I probably should add a hyperlink to the T-Shirt's text so they can head strait to this thread and it's most relevant pages (20 & 21). You know? The very special part where you put words in my mouth and manipulated facts in order to win an argument? I then called you out on it, and then the queen of pyramid quotes could not come up with a proper quote of mine in order to validate her completely imaginary claims?
Ah yea... that was sweet. Defiantly worth a commemorating T-shirt IMHO.
P.S I am willing to change the text to "Can't let it go" or "Can't take loss gracefully" if you so desire. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4748
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 20:56:00 -
[480] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippa what do you think? I think that, just like with more or less everything you've said in this thread, you're making yet another claim that you cannot support. Par for the course, really.
Oh, and: are you ever going to provide any evidence to support your detailed claim about who does what where and under the auspices of whom? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 20:57:00 -
[481] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Oh, and: are you ever going to provide any evidence to support your detailed claim about who does what where and under the auspices of whom?
I will, if you can quote me claiming that I had detailed evidence/claims pertaining to who does what, where and under said auspices whom.
Go! Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4748
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 21:04:00 -
[482] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I will, if you can quote me claiming that I had detailed evidence/claims pertaining to who does what, where and under said auspices of whom First of all, would you mind deciding on what question you want answered and stop changing it all the time? This is a third, different variant on a similar theme GÇö each time you change it, you alter what you're asking for.
The quotes for you making claims about who does what where and under the auspices of whom have already been posted.
The quotes for you having evidence of it do not exist GÇö that is the whole problem
So, now that I've answered that question in full GǪ for the fortyeleventh time (and I have even provided links and references) would you mind providing some evidence to support your detailed claim about who does what where and under the auspices of whom? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 21:11:00 -
[483] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I will, if you can quote me claiming that I had detailed evidence/claims pertaining to who does what, where and under said auspices of whom First of all, would you mind deciding on what question you want answered and stop changing it all the time? This is a third, different variant on a similar theme GÇö each time you change it, you alter what you're asking for. The quotes for you making claims about who does what where and under the auspices of whom have already been posted. The quotes for you having evidence of it do not exist GÇö that is the whole problem So, now that I've answered that question in full GǪ for the fortyeleventh time (and I have even provided links and references) would you mind providing some evidence to support your detailed claim about who does what where and under the auspices of whom?
Ah I see... so what you're saying (in a truly long winded and manipulative way) is that you CANNOT quote me making claims regarding your own completely IMAGINARY (and manipulative) claim, that I (claimed) knowledge/evidence of who does what where and under the auspices of whom.
That is right, I never said such a thing... you did. & now you got caught manipulating text just so you can win an argument.
& now, caught not accepting it or letting it go... which is kind of pathetic TBH. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 21:15:00 -
[484] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:If you took the time to read the part you quoted, you would have noticed that you pretty much completely reversed the truth here.
.....Combined with far to much manipulation to Pyramid quote... Let me Underline The Important Parts For YouYa know... since you consistently rewrite history, manipulate and take things out of context...Your version of the truth is not by default, everyone else's truth. This is also something that alludes narcissistic, debate team champions, such as yourself. Your ability to manipulate terms is nicely developed, no doubt over years of practice, but that ability can only make you an aspiring politician or a lawyer, and less of an aspiring scientist or a philosopher. Assuming that even matters to you, since you seem to put such a high value on "winning". If I say that a public domain possesses easy and readily available information on the subject, and in great multitude, then that is my stance. Your insistence to provide google searches and links for the readier, is in fact, directly contradictory to my stance. You and Mr Red Legion guy have chosen to use that perspective as fodder for more then 3 pages, like some idiot politician running a smear campaign because they have nothing truly of substance to offer. I CANNOT possibly ACCURATELY represent, on these gaming forums, the ORGY of information that would suddenly appear to the reader if they bothered to type a short string of words into google, it is FAR TO VAST and you know that. Thus, your tireless baiting of me, and I am not biting, nor will I be swayed or manipulated by such transparent and weak drivel.. My proof exists in full, beyond this gaming venue and it is 100% Contingent on it's state of easy accessibility to everyone who desires to seek it out. 1. Information: is public, readily available and easy to find. 2. Location:internet browser3. Key words: "RMT MMO's" "Bots MMORPG's" "RMT and Botting MMO's" or any other combination. 4. Potential reading material: consists of literally millions of pages of text, all with remarkably similar information. proving that RMT and Botting are now commonplace in ALL Major MMO'sThat is legit, regardless of how much you complain, and regardless of your ill need to get the last word in on a video game forum. My stance is rational, sensible and overloaded with evidence readily available to all. The reader has direction, guidance and a commentary on what they are expected to see. After they then do so, THEY can decide, not you. Them making their own choice, and me not telling them what to think (like you do so often) is the heart and soul of my stance, it's length and breadth and my proof is contingent on the readier's decision making process after the fact. All that you are doing is baiting me with your imagined version of the truth, in the hopes of developing more poop to fling at me. It is not working, and with each passing page your truest nature is beginning to reveal itself. I am happy to take part, although I suspect that most of the people here already knew what you were about anyway. I am also happy to keep throwing facts in your face... Ya know, instead of just bending over to your imagined realities like everyone else does. And again, my SIMPLE stance... undiluted and in plain text for all to see.
My stance. This is it. No mystery here.
Oh and... you lose, so deal with it already. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4749
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 21:52:00 -
[485] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Ah I see... so what you're saying (in a truly long winded and manipulative way) is that you CANNOT quote me making claims regarding your own completely IMAGINARY (and manipulative) claim Now you're asking a fourth, again completely different, thing.
This is why I asked you to make up your mind about what question you want answered, because if you keep changing it between the moment you post it and the moment you evaluate the answer, then you are no longer asking useful questions.
You asked me to GÇ£quote [you] claiming that [you] had detailed evidence/claims pertaining to who does what, where and under said auspices of whomGÇ¥. Now, you are asking me to GÇ£quote [you] making claims regarding [my] completely IMAGINARY (and manipulative) claimGÇ¥.
These are not the same questions. You cannot use the answer to the former as an answer to the latter.
The answer to the former question has already been posted, a few pages back and repeated above for clarity (and here too, you tried to alter the wording to change the move the goalposts of the question GÇö that's pretty bad form, even for you). I can indeed provide quotes of you making detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom, and have already done so, so there is no need to repeat it here.
This fourth question of yours is now three layers deep that I must ask what relevance it has to the topic at hand? You want me to find a quote where [you make claims about [my claim that [you claim to have detailed knowledge about who does what where under the auspices of whom]]], is that correct? Why?
The issue all along is that you haven't provided any evidence to support your detailed claim about having detailed knowledge about who does what where under the auspices of whom. What is the relevance of you commenting on me saying that? Why are you trying to make it seem like it's something that cannot be found when you've been doing it pretty much throughout the entire thread (like here when you GÇö quite incorrectly GÇö claim that it's publicly available information)?
Quote:That is right, I never said such a thing... you did. No, I did not.
Quote:now you got caught manipulating text just so you can win an argument. Prove it. What text did I manipulate?
The one manipulating text around here is you. I think you need to go have your medication checked since you are having an extended period of confusing me and you, and trust me on this: you are not me. It's not even the first time you've done it GÇö you did the same when you claimed that I GÇ£insisted to provide google searchesGÇ¥, when it was you who insisted on doing that.
Quote:My stance. This is it. No mystery here. GǪand it's still irrelevant since it does not provide any proof to support your detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. What you keep quoting was never in question GÇö your claims about specific regions, corps, alliances, and groups of people were.
Quote:Oh and... you lose, so deal with it already. And here I though it wasn't about winning or losing, but about the truth. Why are you so afraid of discovering the truth? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
210
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 21:52:00 -
[486] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:about 70% of the badposts in this thread can be summed up as 'nerf charismatic attractive people with a modicum of social graces who know how to have a good time on the town' If you do say so yourself. You should get more of your minions to like your post. People might think you're slipping. Unlike me who knows, you have to be somewhere to slip...the unfortunate truth for you, no?
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
241
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:09:00 -
[487] - Quote
Eternum just go give CCP Skreegs hand jobs until he hires you to fight in the crusade against bots. Only way you will ever be satisfied. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:38:00 -
[488] - Quote
Tippia wrote:nd here I though it wasn't about winning or losing, but about the truth. Why are you so afraid of discovering the truth?
It is also about not permitting ones words to be manipulated by forum warrior politicians
I STILL don't see a quote in your long winded post pertaining to me speaking of... who, what.. auspices whatever? Did I miss it? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2774
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:40:00 -
[489] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:The Mittani wrote:about 70% of the badposts in this thread can be summed up as 'nerf charismatic attractive people with a modicum of social graces who know how to have a good time on the town' If you do say so yourself. You should get more of your minions to like your post. People might think you're slipping. Unlike me who knows, you have to be somewhere to slip...the unfortunate truth for you, no?
where do i have to slip, newbie corp alt, exactly?
spell it out please i'm confused The Office of the Chairman: A Thread for Constituent Issues |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4751
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:43:00 -
[490] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:It is also about not permitting ones words to be manipulated by forum warrior politicians Ah, so that's why you're doing it GÇö to test if I will let you or not. Yes. A few pages back. Or wellGǪ you didn't miss it GÇö you read them and did your little GÇ¥moving the goal postsGÇ¥ trick and changed the question that they were supposed to answer and then declared that they didn't answer the new question you invented (which was quite different from the one first asked them to answer and which they did answer). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:47:00 -
[491] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:It is also about not permitting ones words to be manipulated by forum warrior politicians Ah, so that's why you're doing it GÇö to test if I will let you or not. Yes. A few pages back. Or wellGǪ you didn't miss it GÇö you read them and did your little GÇ¥moving the goal postsGÇ¥ trick and changed the question that they were supposed to answer and then declared that they didn't answer the new question you invented (which was quite different from the one first asked them to answer and which they did answer).
You're lying. Prove me wrong by re-quoting it?
You know... evidence and all that jazz. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Aryndel Vyst
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:49:00 -
[492] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:Serene Repose wrote:The Mittani wrote:about 70% of the badposts in this thread can be summed up as 'nerf charismatic attractive people with a modicum of social graces who know how to have a good time on the town' If you do say so yourself. You should get more of your minions to like your post. People might think you're slipping. Unlike me who knows, you have to be somewhere to slip...the unfortunate truth for you, no? where do i have to slip, newbie corp alt, exactly? spell it out please i'm confused
You can slip it in anywhere you want you big dirty Chairman. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4751
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:52:00 -
[493] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You're lying. Prove it. Also: about what?
Quote:Prove me wrong by re-quoting it? I don't have to prove you wrong until you've proved yourself right. You made the claim; the burden of proof is on you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:55:00 -
[494] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:You're lying. Prove it. Also: about what? Quote:Prove me wrong by re-quoting it? I don't have to prove you wrong until you've proved yourself right. You made the claim; the burden of proof is on you.
It is on me that you have been unable to quote me saying a thing that you said that I said... for 4-5 pages and going? HAHAHAHAHH!!!! (real laughter in RL)
Ok. well, you don't have a pot to **** in then. * Hugs my T-shirt.
You do have some issues, Tippa. You may be happier in your RL if you get them addressed professionally. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 23:02:00 -
[495] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:Serene Repose wrote:The Mittani wrote:about 70% of the badposts in this thread can be summed up as 'nerf charismatic attractive people with a modicum of social graces who know how to have a good time on the town' If you do say so yourself. You should get more of your minions to like your post. People might think you're slipping. Unlike me who knows, you have to be somewhere to slip...the unfortunate truth for you, no? where do i have to slip, newbie corp alt, exactly? spell it out please i'm confused
My corp. Do it to mine. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4751
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 23:10:00 -
[496] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:It is on me that you have been unable to quote me saying a thing that you said that I said... for 4-5 pages and going? Well, you see, you made a very silly error: you made a claim when you shouldn't have, and I took advantage of it.
If you hadn't been so horny for a cheap jab, you could have skipped the claim and just asked for the information you wanted, but instead you had to get that dig in and completely shifted the burden of proof. This is why you keep getting into these sticky situations: because you are so keen on asserting things rather than asking for them.
You shouldn't have said GǣYou lie, prove me wrongGǥ, because that's just another claim without anything backing it up, followed by an onus probandi fallacy. You should have simply said GǣHuh, yeah, I did miss itGǪ could you link it?Gǥ instead. But alas.
Newbie mistake. Avoid it the next time.
Quote:You do have some issues, Tippa. It's true. My main issue is that I do love teaching, and I do love argumentation analysis. You're a bit slow on the uptake, thoughGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 23:21:00 -
[497] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:It is on me that you have been unable to quote me saying a thing that you said that I said... for 4-5 pages and going? Well, you see, you made a very silly error: you made a claim when you shouldn't have, and I took advantage of it.
& you can't even quote that I did. I say I did not.
This is your argument. Can you now prove otherwise? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 23:24:00 -
[498] - Quote
Insert quote pertaining to me claiming that I had detailed evidence/claims pertaining to who does what, where and under said auspices whom.
Under this line...................................................................................
Go ahead. Do it. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
248
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 23:34:00 -
[499] - Quote
You are ~literally~ a two-year old |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4752
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 23:43:00 -
[500] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:Well, you see, you made a very silly error: you made a claim when you shouldn't have, and I took advantage of it. & you can't even quote that I did. Sure I can. From post 491 above:
You said GÇ£You're lying. Prove me wrong by re-quoting it? GÇ¥
By making this claim, you needlessly shifted the burden of proof to yourself (and then made that silly GÇ£prove me wrongGÇ¥, which becomes an onus probandi fallacy since, until you've provided proof for your claim, no-one needs to disprove it.)
Quote:Insert quote pertaining to me claiming that I had detailed evidence/claims pertaining to who does what, where and under said auspices whom. First of all, you can skip the GÇ£evidenceGÇ¥ part because, as I have already explained numerous times, the whole problem is that you never provided any evidence, and I have never claimed that you did GÇö quite the opposite. As a result, you really shouldn't be quite so cheerful over the fact that no-one can produce such a quote because that just means that we are right in saying that you've made a fallacy of division.
So what you're asking for is a GÇ£quote pertaining to [you] claiming that [you] had detailed claims pertaining to who does what, where and under said auspices whom.GÇ¥
I provided this back in posts 387, 395, and 397; further referenced by Zirse's post 393 and RubyPorto's post 419. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 23:47:00 -
[501] - Quote
Quote:I think you should quote the part where I submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. Because a statement like "Drone space is botting central" most certainly does not fall under that category, and at this point you have deviated so far from reality that I have no idea what you are talking about
This is the most relevant post on those pages. You have yet to yield anything that could be classified as me submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. Because... for the last time (although probably not ) you made it up.
Never did I make a such a claim. Nor did my side of this lengthy, bullshit debate, ever consist of it.
You like to put words in other people's mouth as a tool/tactic to support your own agenda. As I have stated for... Jesus. Three days LOL. You have not fulfilled your own minimum requirements... so **** that noise. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 23:53:00 -
[502] - Quote
However... I have decided to formulate a new forum thread based upon your polite request. This should be amusing. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Ai Shun
218
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 23:56:00 -
[503] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Quote:I think you should quote the part where I submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. Because a statement like "Drone space is botting central" most certainly does not fall under that category, and at this point you have deviated so far from reality that I have no idea what you are talking about This is the most relevant post on those pages. You have yet to yield anything that could be classified as me submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. Because... for the last time (although probably not ) you made it up. Never did I make a such a claim. Nor did my side of this lengthy, bullshit debate, ever consist of it. You like to put words in other people's mouth as a tool/tactic to support your own agenda. As I have stated for... Jesus. Three days LOL. You have not fulfilled your own minimum requirements... so **** that noise.
Refer to RubyPorto's post #419. I can't say I like the way you accuse others without backing it up without evidence. And this **** has to carry on for 17 odd pages?
You could simply apologise, you know. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 00:08:00 -
[504] - Quote
I tried to find a common ground with him and explained that "Drone regions is botting central" was an outdated comment, because all other regions are now just as prone to bots and RMT as the drone regions. The rest of nullsec has caught up with them.
I did not my outdated view and I corrected it. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4753
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 00:18:00 -
[505] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:This is the most relevant post on those pages. Pages? I gave you very specific posts in my links. That part only really appears in RubyPorto's post, and he explained it quite clearly.
Quote:You have yet to yield anything that could be classified as me submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. There you go changing the question again. See if you can spot the difference between these two requests:
1. GÇ£Insert quote pertaining to me claiming that I had detailed evidence/claims pertaining to who does what, where and under said auspices whom.GÇ¥ GÇö the posts I linked do exactly this. In fact, most of the thread does, if we want to be really pedantic. Your use of GÇ£pertainingGÇ¥ makes your request very broad, so really, anything could be used. I'm kind enough to give you actual quotes that explains your claim.
2. Insert quote GÇ£classified as me submitting statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom.GÇ¥ GÇö the way you've written this request, we are now talking about any post you make where you discuss your having made those original detailed claims. Pretty much anything you've posted from page 20 and onwards fulfils this criterion. Any time you said that I couldn't (or didn't) fulfil request 1 above, you made a post where you make statements regarding the detailed claims GÇö specifically, you make the statement that you don't think or believe you've ever made any such claims.
Quote:Never did I make a such a claim. Your referent is very unclear here. What, exactly, are you referring to by GÇ£such a claimGÇ¥?
I'm tempted to assume that you mean you never made any detailed claim about who does what etc., but given how often you alter the actual question and add new layers of claims about claims, such an assumption is not safe to make. I can tell you that, if it is indeed this original detailed claim about who does what etc. that you're referring to, then you did indeed make such a claim GÇö again, see posts 393, 387, 395, 397, and 419.
Quote:Nor did my side of this lengthy, bullshit debate, ever consist of it. Well, sure, aside from accidentally making the original claim, no GÇö you then tried to mostly harp on about general matters and tried to use those generalities as some kind of proof for the specifics you asserted. However, as was pointed out from the very beginning, this does not fulfil your burden of proof so your detailed claim remains unproven.
Quote:You have not fulfilled your own minimum requirements. GǪexcept for just about every time you've asked for it, even when you've committed the fallacy of moving the goal posts in an attempt to invalidate the answers. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
242
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 00:25:00 -
[506] - Quote
Just an innocent car driving through a great thread. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
473
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 00:35:00 -
[507] - Quote
Still not budging. Your words, your question and not mine.
I kind of like this & yes, I will soon be addressing your topic in a totally new thread (soontm) Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4753
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 00:39:00 -
[508] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Your words, your question and not mine. GǪyou mean aside from them being direct quotes of your words and questions. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1346
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 00:44:00 -
[509] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Still not budging. Your words, your question and not mine. I kind of like this & yes, I will soon be addressing your topic in a totally new thread (soontm)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=738324#post738324 Post 419 on this thread, where I quote, link, and explain where you made 10 different claims; to support which you never provided evidence.
Nobody has ever said you provided evidence to support your claims and that is the entirety of the problem we've been discussing for 17 pages.
If you are still confused by the contents of that post, I would be more than happy to rewrite the explanation at a 2nd grade reading level rather than the ~5th grade reading level that that post may require.
Again, that post provides the specific textual evidence that you made claims 1-10. You either need to provide some sort of evidence (or quote yourself providing such in a post that I missed) to back up some or all of those claims, or you must retract some or all of them as unfounded.
This is how rational people seek truth; by making claims (backed by evidence) and then debating the merits of those claims and their evidence. We're still stuck between your making claims and backing them up with evidence. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1346
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 00:46:00 -
[510] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:nd here I though it wasn't about winning or losing, but about the truth. Why are you so afraid of discovering the truth? It is also about not permitting ones words to be manipulated by forum warrior politicians I STILL don't see a quote in your long winded post pertaining to me speaking of... who, what.. auspices whatever? Did I miss it?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=738324#post738324 Post 419 on this thread, where I quote, link, and explain where you made 10 different claims; to support which you never provided evidence. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
|
Terminal Insanity
Convex Enterprises Unprovoked Aggression
219
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 00:47:00 -
[511] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. How is this really any different then real, IRL politics? US Supreme Court ruling even states that Corporations have the same rights as people.
You have organizations like the Tea Party who will stop at nothing to elect ANYONE other then obama. How is this really any different then an eve corporation banding together to vote for their group candidate? At least in eve you cant pour billions of isk/plex into getting their CSM elected.
You claim the democratic CSM election is flawed, and then suggest curing it by having some kind of moderator that chooses who can be voted for? not letting the majority have their vote? (hey, you know, that does sound like IRL politics too!) |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1346
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 00:50:00 -
[512] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:As for trying to prove a negative, in the absence of any evidence to back up your positive claim, my asking for evidence is sufficient to refute the claim until evidence is provided, me actually giving testimonial evidence "I don't see any" is unnecessary overkill. Eternum Praetorian wrote:If I say that a public domain possesses easy and readily available information on the subject, and in great multitude, then that is my stance. Your insistence to provide google searches and links for the readier, is in fact, directly contradictory to my stance. You and Mr Red Legion guy have chosen to use that perspective as fodder for more then 3 pages, like some idiot politician running a smear campaign because they have nothing truly of substance to offer.
I CANNOT possibly ACCURATELY represent, on these gaming forums, the ORGY of information that would suddenly appear to the reader if they bothered to type a short string of words into google, it is FAR TO VAST and you know that. Thus, your tireless baiting of me, and I am not biting, nor will I be swayed or manipulated by such transparent and weak drivel.. My proof exists in full, beyond this gaming venue and it is 100% Contingent on it's state of easy accessibility to everyone who desires to seek it out.
1. Information: is public, readily available and easy to find. 2. Location:internet browser 3. Key words: "RMT MMO's" "Bots MMORPG's" "RMT and Botting MMO's" or any other combination. 4. Potential reading material: consists of literally millions of pages of text, all with remarkably similar information. proving that RMT and Botting are now commonplace in ALL Major MMO's All you have submitted so far is "I don't see any bots out here", so I guess that is the length and breadth of your counter argument. OK, then. If you have anything more then that to support your claims, we would love to hear it. If not, well... there are millions of pages of videos, blogs and magazine articles allover the internet outlining the occurrence, causes and extent of Bots and RMT in all modern day MMO's, including EVE Online. But by all means keep on, your making a better case against yourself with your long winded dodging of facts then I ever could on my own.
What facts have you presented? You have presented claims which, without evidence, are worthless in debate.
You made a claim, and while I was certainly under no obligation to, I provided the only piece of on point evidence that's come into play in 17 pages. It happens to refute your claim. If you wish to attack that evidence, you may do so by presenting contradictory evidence. Nothing else.
And no, I do not as yet have a counter argument, as I do not as yet have an argument facing me that needs countering. I simply offered a piece of testimonial evidence that happens to contradict your claim. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
479
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 01:26:00 -
[513] - Quote
Pertaining to who does what, where and under the auspices whom
For the first time. Now presented as requested, Tippa.
Unfortunately I can't link the damn thing, but I am sure you will find it on page one. Enjoy! Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
479
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 01:28:00 -
[514] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:As for trying to prove a negative, in the absence of any evidence to back up your positive claim, my asking for evidence is sufficient to refute the claim until evidence is provided, me actually giving testimonial evidence "I don't see any" is unnecessary overkill. Eternum Praetorian wrote:If I say that a public domain possesses easy and readily available information on the subject, and in great multitude, then that is my stance. Your insistence to provide google searches and links for the readier, is in fact, directly contradictory to my stance. You and Mr Red Legion guy have chosen to use that perspective as fodder for more then 3 pages, like some idiot politician running a smear campaign because they have nothing truly of substance to offer.
I CANNOT possibly ACCURATELY represent, on these gaming forums, the ORGY of information that would suddenly appear to the reader if they bothered to type a short string of words into google, it is FAR TO VAST and you know that. Thus, your tireless baiting of me, and I am not biting, nor will I be swayed or manipulated by such transparent and weak drivel.. My proof exists in full, beyond this gaming venue and it is 100% Contingent on it's state of easy accessibility to everyone who desires to seek it out.
1. Information: is public, readily available and easy to find. 2. Location:internet browser 3. Key words: "RMT MMO's" "Bots MMORPG's" "RMT and Botting MMO's" or any other combination. 4. Potential reading material: consists of literally millions of pages of text, all with remarkably similar information. proving that RMT and Botting are now commonplace in ALL Major MMO's All you have submitted so far is "I don't see any bots out here", so I guess that is the length and breadth of your counter argument. OK, then. If you have anything more then that to support your claims, we would love to hear it. If not, well... there are millions of pages of videos, blogs and magazine articles allover the internet outlining the occurrence, causes and extent of Bots and RMT in all modern day MMO's, including EVE Online. But by all means keep on, your making a better case against yourself with your long winded dodging of facts then I ever could on my own. What facts have you presented? You have presented claims which, without evidence, are worthless in debate. You made a claim, and while I was certainly under no obligation to, I provided the only piece of on point evidence that's come into play in 17 pages. It happens to refute your claim. If you wish to attack that evidence, you may do so by presenting contradictory evidence. Nothing else. And no, I do not as yet have a counter argument (nor do I need one), as I do not as yet have an argument facing me that needs countering. I simply offered a piece of testimonial evidence that happens to contradict your claim.
You're gonna get a T-shirt too. Very very weak stuff, Mr Red legion guy.
But good god you people never shut up do you. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1347
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 01:35:00 -
[515] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Good Argument. Gonna give us some evidence to back your claims up so you can shut me up? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=738324#post738324 Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4760
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 01:44:00 -
[516] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:For the first time. Now presented as requested, Tippa. Too bad it doesn't contain the requested proof.
Quote:Unfortunately I can't link the damn thing That's an impressive level of incompetence.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 01:50:00 -
[517] - Quote
Finnally Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Jita Alt666
889
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 01:52:00 -
[518] - Quote
After reading this thread I have to recommend that Eternum Praetorian stand for CSM7. If elected, I am sure his rational, logical, debating style will endear him so much with CCP that he will mysteriously be in breach of the NDA and stripped of his position and then his accounts will be mysteriously hacked with all assets and characters biomassed.
Eternum Praetorian for CSM!
Finally has one n. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1347
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:03:00 -
[519] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=743322#post743322
Hey great, now bring the retraction of your initial claims over to this thread, and we're all done.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=738324#post738324
You made these claims, now separately you say you cannot prove said claims. Now it's your job to come out and say, "Oops, I overstepped my evidence."
You seem to be under the impression that we have been having a debate for ~17 pages. We haven't. Tippia and I have been pressing you to provide the evidence needed to back up the specific claims you made back around page 8 or 9 (listed and explained) and you have been alternately refusing, dodging, and stumbling away. If you retract those claims and put forth a new set of claims that you can back with evidence, I'm sure we'd be happy to engage in debate with you. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
245
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:07:00 -
[520] - Quote
Looks like RubyPorto is the winner of this thread. /puts Ruby's hand up in the air Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:10:00 -
[521] - Quote
Quote:]If I say that a public domain possesses easy and readily available information on the subject, and in great multitude, then that is my stance. Your insistence to provide google searches and links for the readier, is in fact, directly contradictory to my stance. You and Mr Red Legion guy have chosen to use that perspective as fodder for more then 3 pages, like some idiot politician running a smear campaign because they have nothing truly of substance to offer.
I CANNOT possibly ACCURATELY represent, on these gaming forums, the ORGY of information that would suddenly appear to the reader if they bothered to type a short string of words into google, it is FAR TO VAST and you know that. Thus, your tireless baiting of me, and I am not biting, nor will I be swayed or manipulated by such transparent and weak drivel.. My proof exists in full, beyond this gaming venue and it is 100% Contingent on it's state of easy accessibility to everyone who desires to seek it out.
1. Information: is public, readily available and easy to find. 2. Location:internet browser 3. Key words: "RMT MMO's" "Bots MMORPG's" "RMT and Botting MMO's" or any other combination. 4. Potential reading material: consists of literally millions of pages of text, all with remarkably similar information. proving that RMT and Botting are now commonplace in ALL Major MMO's
Zero contradiction and 100% uniformity,.
And no I don't think you and Tippa are having a debate with me, you are using verbal manipulations to alter the course of the thread, in an attempt to bait me into an obvious trap of linguistically trickery. As has been stated 30 times. Despite that I have offered the evidence you requested, and seem to agree with.
So what is your current malfunction presently? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4764
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:16:00 -
[522] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Zero contradiction and 100% uniformity. GǪaside from you making assertions that you couldn't prove.
Quote:Despite that I have offered the evidence you requested No. You have offered evidence for a different claim that was never in question.
Quote:So what is your current malfunction presently? edit: That you still haven't provide any evidence for (or, alternatively on second thought, any redaction of) the assertions that were actually in question. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1347
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:18:00 -
[523] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Zero contradiction and 100% uniformity,.
And no I don't think you and Tippa are having a debate with me, you are using verbal manipulations to alter the course of the thread, in an attempt to bait me into an obvious trap of linguistically trickery. As has been stated 30 times. Despite that I have offered the evidence you requested, and seem to agree with.
So what is your current malfunction presently?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=738324#post738324
You made that new set of claims quite a while after it became clear that you would not be able to back the specific claims you initially made during the course of this thread.( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=738324#post738324 For your convenience ). I have not commented on the possible truth value of these new claims, as it is inappropriate to present new claims while old claims still hold the floor. This is done to avoid having discussions become fruitless due to one side's attempt to obfuscate the argument by continually making new claims (usually with some support) before their opposition has the chance to refute them.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=738324#post738324 These Claims are the ones at hand right now, and to proceed, it is your obligation to either back them with evidence (so we may have a chance to agree or rebut the claims) or to retract them as unfounded.
Again, it's https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=738324#post738324 these 10 claims that you made that are at issue. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
246
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:20:00 -
[524] - Quote
Well wait ladies and gentleman looks like challengers have entered the ring to overthrow Ruby's victory. Action will continue once BBCode has be properly parsed. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:21:00 -
[525] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Zero contradiction and 100% uniformity. GǪaside from you making assertions that you couldn't prove.
Which is presently?
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:21:00 -
[526] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Well wait ladies and gentleman looks like challengers have entered the ring to overthrow Ruby's victory. Action will continue once BBCode has be properly parsed.
LOL!
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1347
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:23:00 -
[527] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Well wait ladies and gentleman looks like challengers have entered the ring to overthrow Ruby's victory. Action will continue once BBCode has be properly parsed.
Gave up fighting with the forums over BBCode that was generated by the forums own freaking tools. POS tools. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4764
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:23:00 -
[528] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Which is presently? The same as they've always been.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1347
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:24:00 -
[529] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Zero contradiction and 100% uniformity. GǪaside from you making assertions that you couldn't prove. Which is presently?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVC2vyVCWJI They're https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=738324#post738324 Here
EDIT: I'd love it if the forums would give some indication of what the issue is or where it's located. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:26:00 -
[530] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Which is presently? The same as they've always been.
Restate them clearly please.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4764
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:26:00 -
[531] - Quote
There you go. It's the percent sign combined with the link that messes things up GÇö just replace the sign with the actual word.
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Restate them clearly please. No need. You already know them full well. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:32:00 -
[532] - Quote
1) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of Botting in RED.L Space No not personally.
2) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of RMT in RED.L Space Nope. But one would think that you would.
3) I personally have or should have specific knowledge that RED.L tolerates botting/RMT Nope. But one would think that you would.
4) Botting Occurs in the Drone Region Federation No region is exempt. If your saying that it is, the burden of proof is on you to prove it.
5) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating Botting Not officially ofc not, why would they admit such a thing only to receive CCPGÇÖs ban hammer?
6) RMT Occurs in the Drone Region Federation No region is exempt. If your saying that it is, the burden of proof is on you to prove it.
7) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating RMT Not officially ofc not, why would they admit such a thing only to receive CCPGÇÖs ban hammer?
8) All of 4-7 are more true of the Drone Region Federation than of ANY OTHER PLACE in EVE Once it was true, but things have changed. Now all regions are made equal, my prior statement was outdated do to me being both tired at the time, and old school.
9) Any or all of 4-7 are true of the Drone Region Federation to a concentrated enough extent that they can be accurately called "Bot/RMT Central" This was commonly accepted yes. But atm I believe it to be inaccurate, do to how things have changed over the past couple of years.
10) RED.L is a part of the Drone Region Federation As far as I know you are a RA pet. So define it how you want.
Ok I guess this is what your looking for? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4764
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:34:00 -
[533] - Quote
Was that so hard? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:38:00 -
[534] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Was that so hard?
It has nothing to do with MY topic.
This is only what you chose to harp on after you got caught in your skillful manipulating of wording in order to emerge on the winning side of a debate. But ofc, you will choose to forget page 20-21
I will always have my T-shirt Sniff sniff Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1347
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:41:00 -
[535] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:1) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of Botting in RED.L Space No not personally.
2) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of RMT in RED.L Space Nope. But one would think that you would.
3) I personally have or should have specific knowledge that RED.L tolerates botting/RMT Nope. But one would think that you would.
4) Botting Occurs in the Drone Region Federation No region is exempt. If your saying that it is, the burden of proof is on you to prove it.
5) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating Botting Not officially ofc not, why would they admit such a thing only to receive CCPGÇÖs ban hammer?
6) RMT Occurs in the Drone Region Federation No region is exempt. If your saying that it is, the burden of proof is on you to prove it.
7) The Drone Region Federation has a policy of tolerating RMT Not officially ofc not, why would they admit such a thing only to receive CCPGÇÖs ban hammer?
8) All of 4-7 are more true of the Drone Region Federation than of ANY OTHER PLACE in EVE Once it was true, but things have changed. Now all regions are made equal, my prior statement was outdated do to me being both tired at the time, and old school.
9) Any or all of 4-7 are true of the Drone Region Federation to a concentrated enough extent that they can be accurately called "Bot/RMT Central" This was commonly accepted yes. But atm I believe it to be inaccurate, do to how things have changed over the past couple of years.
10) RED.L is a part of the Drone Region Federation As far as I know you are a RA pet. So define it how you want.
Ok I guess this is what your looking for?
So close, and yet so far.
You still must provide evidence for those claims that you want us to refute (namely 4-7), you still call me either unobservant or stupid, and you haven't apologized for the baseless personal attacks that 1-3 represent.
As to 8 and 9, Common Acceptance is not evidence, it is a commission of the fallacy Argumentum ad Populum (many believe, therefore it is true).
Finally, on 10, while RED.L is the english speaking wing of RA, RA is not part of the DRF. It is a part of the Eastern Russian Federation. It would in fact be ineligible for inclusion in the DRF since it primarily operates in Angel Space. But congrats for (kind of) making an argument there. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1347
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:42:00 -
[536] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:Was that so hard? It has nothing to do with MY topic. This is only what you chose to harp on after you got caught in your skillful manipulating of wording in order to emerge on the winning side of a debate. But ofc, you will choose to forget page 20-21 I will always have my T-shirt Sniff sniff
Your topic is and was what claims you made first until those claims are dealt with.
Doesn't matter what you'd like your topic to be. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Ai Shun
224
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:43:00 -
[537] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:So close, and yet so far.
I'm somehow reminded of this.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4764
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:44:00 -
[538] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:It has nothing to do with MY topic. So? Your supposed topic was never in question.
Quote:This is only what you chose to harp on after GǪyou made the claims GÇö you know, back on page 8. There was no GÇ£skillful manipulation of wordingGÇ¥; it was you saying things you could not back up with evidence. The inept manipulation of wording is what you were doing on pages 20-21 in a classic move-the-goal-posts fallacy in your failed attempt to deflect from the facts presented to you, showing that you did indeed make the claims in question. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:47:00 -
[539] - Quote
Quote:You still must provide evidence for those claims that you want us to refute (namely 4-7), you still call me either unobservant or stupid, and you haven't apologized for the baseless personal attacks that 1-3 represent.
Why is it a personal attack? You say you have not seen such things and I say that I have? You can't find them and I have encountered things that follow, what follows generally accepted patterns of macrobot behavior. No version of this truth is more true or less true then the other.
Quote: As to 8 and 9, Common Acceptance is not evidence, it is a commission of the fallacy Argumentum ad Populum (many believe, therefore it is true).
Evidence pertaining to how all regions are made equal in terms of RMT and botting, exists in it's prevalence throughout all MMO's. If you want proof of that see my other thread, I am tired of linking screwed up BBC code.
Quote:Finally, on 10, while RED.L is the english speaking wing of RA, RA is not part of the DRF. It is a part of the Eastern Russian Federation. It would in fact be ineligible for inclusion in the DRF since it primarily operates in Angel Space. But congrats for (kind of) making an argument there.
I was in detorid when RL took over, I saw RA fighting side by side with RL... so as far as I know, and as far as I have seen your a pet. So what? Lots of pets in eve. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1348
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:49:00 -
[540] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:RubyPorto wrote:So close, and yet so far. I'm somehow reminded of this.
What can I say. When it takes three days and almost 20 pages of forum posts to get someone to successfully deal with some ill-advised claims he made, I get a little bit riled.
Also, I find that conversation hilarious. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
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Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:51:00 -
[541] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:It has nothing to do with MY topic. So? Your supposed topic was never in question. Quote:This is only what you chose to harp on after GǪyou made the claims GÇö you know, back on page 8. There was no GÇ£skillful manipulation of wordingGÇ¥; it was you saying things you could not back up with evidence. The inept manipulation of wording is what you were doing on pages 20-21 in a classic move-the-goal-posts fallacy in your failed attempt to deflect from the facts presented to you, showing that you did indeed make the claims in question.
I am too tired to deal with your reinvention of reality at this point.
It has something to do with you claiming that I made detailed statements pertaining to who does what, where and under said auspices whom. You could not quote me for several pages, because I said no such thing. Upon making an entire new forum post on the subject, containing my commentary... all you then had to offer was that you agreed.
It is all in black and white. You can't handle it very well. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:54:00 -
[542] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:What can I say. When it takes three days and almost 20 pages of forum posts to get someone to successfully deal with some ill-advised claims he made, I get a little bit riled..
I think you should read better.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1348
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:54:00 -
[543] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Quote:You still must provide evidence for those claims that you want us to refute (namely 4-7), you still call me either unobservant or stupid, and you haven't apologized for the baseless personal attacks that 1-3 represent. Why is it a personal attack? You say you have not seen such things and I say that I have? You can't find them and I have encountered things that follow, what follows generally accepted patterns of macrobot behavior. No version of this truth is more true or less true then the other.
"RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there." "Meaning that if you have not seen said things for yourself by now, then you must be living under a rock out there."
That sure looks like a personal attack to me.
Quote:Quote: As to 8 and 9, Common Acceptance is not evidence, it is a commission of the fallacy Argumentum ad Populum (many believe, therefore it is true).
Evidence pertaining to how all regions are made equal in terms of RMT and botting, exists in it's prevalence throughout all MMO's. If you want proof of that see my other thread, I am tired of linking screwed up BBC code. Nope, 8 and 9 pertain directly to the assertion that the DRF is botting central, an idea upon which you have softened your position, but you still hold onto it, and thus must defend it.
Quote: "Finally, on 10, while RED.L is the english speaking wing of RA, RA is not part of the DRF. It is a part of the Eastern Russian Federation. It would in fact be ineligible for inclusion in the DRF since it primarily operates in Angel Space. But congrats for (kind of) making an argument there."
I was in detorid when RL took over, I saw RA fighting side by side with RL... so as far as I know, and as far as I have seen your a pet. So what? Lots of pets in eve.
Fine, but the claim is that RA/RED.L is a part of the DRF, which is demonstrably false (Hint, we're fighting a wee little war against them). Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1348
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:58:00 -
[544] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:It has nothing to do with MY topic. So? Your supposed topic was never in question. Quote:This is only what you chose to harp on after GǪyou made the claims GÇö you know, back on page 8. There was no GÇ£skillful manipulation of wordingGÇ¥; it was you saying things you could not back up with evidence. The inept manipulation of wording is what you were doing on pages 20-21 in a classic move-the-goal-posts fallacy in your failed attempt to deflect from the facts presented to you, showing that you did indeed make the claims in question. I am too tired to deal with your reinvention of reality at this point. It has something to do with you claiming that I made detailed statements pertaining to who does what, where and under said auspices whom. You could not quote me for several pages, because I said no such thing. Upon making an entire new forum post on the subject, containing my commentary... all you then had to offer was that you agreed. It is all in black and white. You can't handle it very well.
Here we go again. You're right, it is in black and white. The 10 claims you forwarded were the specifically articulated who (players in the DRF) does what (botting/RMT), where (Drone Regions), under the auspices of who (DRF leadership). Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:58:00 -
[545] - Quote
Quote: "RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there." "Meaning that if you have not seen said things for yourself by now, then you must be living under a rock out there."
That sure looks like a personal attack to me.
If you are indeed looking, and seeing "nothing" as you claim... I thus conclude that you are instead hiding under a rock, when comparing it to things that I have witnessed. Yea. Take it how you want and grow a thinker skin crybaby
Quote: Nope, 8 and 9 pertain directly to the assertion that the DRF is botting central, an idea upon which you have softened your position, but you still hold onto it, and thus must defend it.
It used to be, but now the rest of EVE caught up. I have said this to nauseum.
Done? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1348
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:01:00 -
[546] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:What can I say. When it takes three days and almost 20 pages of forum posts to get someone to successfully deal with some ill-advised claims he made, I get a little bit riled.. I think you should read better.
You made the claims on page 8 or 9, and took until page 27 to almost deal with them (either providing evidence or withdrawing them). That's nearly 20 pages, the claims are pretty clearly ill advised, since the only time you've come close to dealing with them is when you tried to retract them clumsily.
Looks like I can back up each statement in that post.
Getting Riled is an emotion, so is exempt from an evidentiary requirement (since I feel it), and needs no rebuttal as it is not an argument. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4764
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:05:00 -
[547] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I am too tired to deal with your reinvention of reality at this point. Too tired to deal with nothing. Awww shnookums.
Quote:It has something to do with you claiming that I made detailed statements pertaining to who does what, where and under said auspices whom. You could not quote me for several pages, because I said no such thing. I could quote you on page one (relative to you requesting it GÇö so p20), but when you refused to accept it, I made it again in more detail, and then so did others.
Meanwhile, you tried to move the goalposts by first asking for a quote showing you provided evidence; then for a quote showing you discussing your claim; then for a quote showing your claim; then back to quotes showing you providing evidence; and then back and forth between these variations a few times, never accepting the answer because by the time the answer to a question came, you had changed the question.
Quote:Upon making an entire new forum post on the subject, containing my commentary... GǪyou only managed to post stuff that was never in question GÇö a fact that was pointed out to you on numerous occasions. You created that thread and the commentary over nothing.
Quote:It is all in black and white. GǪwhich is why it's so baffling that you're having such problems accepting what has happened. Maybe you should go back to page 7-8 or so and start reading from there, now that you have had a breakthrough and finally (seemingly) understood and/or accepted what the actual issue is. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:06:00 -
[548] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Here we go again. You're right, it is in black and white. The 10 claims you forwarded were the specifically articulated who (players in the DRF) does what (botting/RMT), where (Drone Regions), under the auspices of who (DRF leadership).
I made one claim, you made a list and inferred what you wanted from your own list. I am not responsible for your actions, nor what you decided to infer from my words. Expanding on my single statement tenfold and then asking me to explain what you dictated, ten fold, is not reasonable and I am not required to abide. However in the end I did anyway.
Your words. Your terms. Your issue. Your creation. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:11:00 -
[549] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Lots more stuff
Alternative version....
You corrupted and clouded the exchange, with an oversimplified version of a question in order to deflect the engagement from the direction in which it was heading in. That direction, not suiting your interests. I could not just come out and say "Drone regions rmt and macro" without the obvious retort of "where is your proof"
My answer was far more involved and complex. So much so it had to be defined in a megapost that you seem to now agree with. All regions are made equal for the reasons stated, including the drone regions. That is and was my answer. You chose to manipulate the conditions of the debate, with limited success,,, because I refused to deviate from where I stood. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1348
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:13:00 -
[550] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Quote: "RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there." "Meaning that if you have not seen said things for yourself by now, then you must be living under a rock out there."
That sure looks like a personal attack to me.
If you are indeed looking, and seeing "nothing" as you claim... I thus conclude that you are instead hiding under a rock, when comparing it to things that I have witnessed. Yea. Take it how you want and grow a thinker skin crybaby
Hey hey hey, if you have witnessed something, that is evidence. Can you tell us who you witnessed doing what where? Cause that would be interesting evidence to support your claims.
Quote:Quote: Nope, 8 and 9 pertain directly to the assertion that the DRF is botting central, an idea upon which you have softened your position, but you still hold onto it, and thus must defend it.
It used to be, but now the rest of EVE caught up. I have said this to nauseum. Done?
You have yet to provide evidence that says that Botting/RMT still occurs there. Unless Tippia or I stipulate that botting/RMT occurs in any specific locale in EVE (I've already stipulated that it occurs somewhere in EvE), the burden falls upon you to provide evidence. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:16:00 -
[551] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
You have yet to provide evidence that says that Botting/RMT still occurs there. Unless Tippia or I stipulate that botting/RMT occurs in any specific locale in EVE (I've already stipulated that it occurs somewhere in EvE), the burden falls upon you to provide evidence.
This statement is suggesting that Botting and RMT do not occur in said region. You cannot prove that it does not, and since all regions are made equal, it is equally as likely that it can and does occur there, regardless of what you or I think.
Quote:Hey hey hey, if you have witnessed something, that is evidence. Can you tell us who you witnessed doing what where? Cause that would be interesting evidence to support your claims.
No it isn't. It is a circumstantial as you saying that you have seen nothing. Both of us could be equally as right or equally as wrong. Testimony is not evidence per say, it is just word of mouth.
ZING! Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1348
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:17:00 -
[552] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Here we go again. You're right, it is in black and white. The 10 claims you forwarded were the specifically articulated who (players in the DRF) does what (botting/RMT), where (Drone Regions), under the auspices of who (DRF leadership). I made one claim, you made a list and inferred what you wanted from your own list. I am not responsible for your actions, nor what you decided to infer from my words. Expanding on my single statement tenfold and then asking me to explain what you dictated, ten fold, is not reasonable and I am not required to abide. However in the end I did anyway. Your words. Your terms. Your issue. Your creation.
Each of your 2 posts quoted contained multiple claims. If I were to say "I am rich, handsome, and awesome," would that be just one claim, or a compound sentence containing 3 separate claims? Since each can have a different truth value, that sentence contains 3 claims. For the purposes of discussion, it is often helpful to separate those claims into a list so that we avoid becoming confused. That is all I did for your claims. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:21:00 -
[553] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Here we go again. You're right, it is in black and white. The 10 claims you forwarded were the specifically articulated who (players in the DRF) does what (botting/RMT), where (Drone Regions), under the auspices of who (DRF leadership). I made one claim, you made a list and inferred what you wanted from your own list. I am not responsible for your actions, nor what you decided to infer from my words. Expanding on my single statement tenfold and then asking me to explain what you dictated, ten fold, is not reasonable and I am not required to abide. However in the end I did anyway. Your words. Your terms. Your issue. Your creation. Each of your 2 posts quoted contained multiple claims. If I were to say "I am rich, handsome, and awesome," would that be just one claim, or a compound sentence containing 3 separate claims? Since each can have a different truth value, that sentence contains 3 claims. For the purposes of discussion, it is often helpful to separate those claims into a list so that we avoid becoming confused. That is all I did for your claims.
And in doing so, you expanded the comment of "drone regions are botting and RMT central" by a factor of 10. You added elements that were not part of the original intent, and then demanded that I argue your creations on my own behalf. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4764
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:21:00 -
[554] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You corrupted and clouded the exchange, with an oversimplified version of a question in order to deflect the engagement from the direction in which it was heading in. That direction, not suiting your interests. GǪexcept that, by the time I started commenting, the question had already been created by others and the discussion your education had already been given its direction by others. My interest, then as now, lies in explaining to you why you didn't have any support for your claims. That was pretty much parallel to the direction it was already going.
Of course, you wanted the whole thing to go in a different direction, but that direction wasn't really in question GÇö the issue was your overreaching use of generalisations. That was the direction the whole thing was already heading. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1348
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:22:00 -
[555] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
You have yet to provide evidence that says that Botting/RMT still occurs there. Unless Tippia or I stipulate that botting/RMT occurs in any specific locale in EVE (I've already stipulated that it occurs somewhere in EvE), the burden falls upon you to provide evidence.
This statement is suggesting that Botting and RMT do not occur in said region. You cannot prove that it does not, and since all regions are made equal, it is equally as likely that it can and does occur there, regardless of what you or I think. ZING!
Nope, it is not suggesting anything of the sort. It is only telling you that you must provide evidence for each and every claim you make, unless the other parties to the discussion stipulate that you do not.
All regions are clearly not created equal. They have different numbers of systems, average Sec Statuses, presence or absence of NPC Sov, number of choke points, number of stations, presence of bounty rats or Drone Rats, differing histories (8 years is a long time in an MMO), etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_probability When you use the word "likely" in making a claim, you are usually about to commit a fallacy, namely an Appeal to probability. In this case, you absolutely committed that fallacy.
That something is likely is not evidence in any way to say that it is true. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1348
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:23:00 -
[556] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote: And in doing so, you expanded the comment of "drone regions are botting and RMT central" by a factor of 10. You added elements that were not part of the original intent, and then demanded that I argue your creations on my own behalf. I am not required to debate, or defend myself against your own interpretations.
Specifically where in my post did I go wrong? Please, I want to learn from the master. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=738324#post738324 Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
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Posted - 2012.02.02 03:27:00 -
[557] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:You corrupted and clouded the exchange, with an oversimplified version of a question in order to deflect the engagement from the direction in which it was heading in. That direction, not suiting your interests. GǪexcept that, by the time I started commenting, the question had already been created by others and the discussion your education had already been given its direction by others. My interest, then as now, lies in explaining to you why you didn't have any support for your claims. That was pretty much parallel to the direction it was already going. Of course, you wanted the whole thing to go in a different direction, but that direction wasn't really in question GÇö the issue was your overreaching use of generalisations. That was the direction the whole thing was already heading.
If you believe that my stance and the evidence presented was overreached generalizations, then you failed to grasp it's broad spanning and diverse implications. My interest is to see how far you would go, and how far I could press you without altering my position in any way shape or form.
If you choose to not acknowledge my stance, and I choose to not acknowledge yours, then we stand one equal ground. Except my argument was based upon the fact that RMT and botting permeate all MMO's, and all regions are equally as likely to have them. Your's seems to have been based upon statements that Mr Red Legion guy made, that were merely his interpretations of my own words. I do not have to defend a stance that someone else created, through their own interpretation.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
480
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:30:00 -
[558] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: And in doing so, you expanded the comment of "drone regions are botting and RMT central" by a factor of 10. You added elements that were not part of the original intent, and then demanded that I argue your creations on my own behalf. I am not required to debate, or defend myself against your own interpretations.
Specifically where in my post did I go wrong? Please, I want to learn from the master. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=738324#post738324
I'd be happy to if you clarify, no more word games State your question clearly and succinctly, your BBC link leaves to much for interpretation and reinterpretation.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1348
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:33:00 -
[559] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: And in doing so, you expanded the comment of "drone regions are botting and RMT central" by a factor of 10. You added elements that were not part of the original intent, and then demanded that I argue your creations on my own behalf. I am not required to debate, or defend myself against your own interpretations.
Specifically where in my post did I go wrong? Please, I want to learn from the master. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=738324#post738324 I'd be happy to if you clarify, no more word games State your question clearly and succinctly, your BBC link leaves to much for interpretation and reinterpretation.
Which of the 10 claims that I say you make (in the quoted and linked sections of your posts) do you feel you did not make (in the quoted and linked sections of your posts)?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=738324#post738324
I'm not at all sure where the British Broadcasting Company comes into this. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
485
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:46:00 -
[560] - Quote
Quote:"RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there." "Meaning that if you have not seen said things for yourself by now, then you must be living under a rock out there."
Primarily, this directly pertains to witnessing botting and mining in belts, after you claimed to not have seen them. The assumption is that you are looking around for them and taking note of their existence should you encounter them.
You Inferred & Invented:
1. It was suggesting alliance-wide leadership policies. 2. Alliance-wide, the majority of individuals possess knowledge and tolerates such occurrences OPENLY. 3. That you were part of said elements 1 & 2, as if they existed at the level of tin foil hattery and secret conspiracy/coverup
4. & thus that I had I submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. where as I DID NOT.
All of this you inferred and created when you generated your 10 points. In dividing them, you created questions that were only yours, and were of your own design. I had no obligation to address or entertain them. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
257
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:58:00 -
[561] - Quote
These forums are sure moderated well. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1348
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:58:00 -
[562] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Quote:"RubyPorto, no one can help you if your hiding under a rock out there." "Meaning that if you have not seen said things for yourself by now, then you must be living under a rock out there." Primarily, this directly pertains to witnessing botting and mining in belts, after you claimed to not have seen them. The assumption is that you are looking around for them and taking note of their existence should you encounter them. You Inferred & Invented:1. It was suggesting alliance-wide leadership policies. 2. Alliance-wide, the majority of individuals possess knowledge and tolerates such occurrences OPENLY. 3. That you were part of said elements 1 & 2, as if they existed at the level of tin foil hattery and secret conspiracy/coverup 4. & thus that I had I submitted evidence /statements regarding detailed claims about who does what where under the auspices of whom. where as I DID NOT. All of this you inferred and created when you generated your 10 points. In dividing them, you created questions that were only yours, and were of your own design. I had no obligation to address or entertain them.
Saying that I must be "living under a rock" makes the claim that I should have specific knowledge of Botting/RMT in my alliance's space, or of an alliance policy tolerating said activities (since knowing of a policy would mean knowing that the action occurs). Implied in the claim that I "should have knowledge" is the alternative claim that I do have knowledge but either I refuse to admit it, or I actively ignore it.
Now, looking back, I may have slightly overreached, I should have clarified that 1 and 2 or 3 is the way your claims* link, but I think that's a pretty minor point since you don't have any evidence whatsoever to show either 1 and 2 or 3, or put differently: 1) There are things (botting/RMT) to see 2) To avoid seeing them, I must be actively avoiding seeing them (living under a rock)
As to you asking me to show where you submitted evidence or statements to back your claims up, well that would be the ballgame. You have not provided evidence or statements, but you have made detailed claims. And there's the whole problem.
*Claims below: 1) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of Botting in RED.L Space 2) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of RMT in RED.L Space 3) I personally have or should have specific knowledge that RED.L tolerates botting/RMT Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
485
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 04:08:00 -
[563] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: *Claims below: 1) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of Botting in RED.L Space 2) I personally have or should have specific knowledge of RMT in RED.L Space 3) I personally have or should have specific knowledge that RED.L tolerates botting/RMT
Only if you were actively looking, should you have specific knowledge of Bots in belts and plexes within the space in which you inhabit. You stating that "I don't see any" thus inferring "your space is some how clean of them" suggests that you were indeed taking a stance, and playing the role of someone who was actively looking. Bots are intimately tied with RMT, and you would be hard pressed to post an argument that significantly divides the two things.
You can not prove or disprove whether or not bots in your space are tolerated by the alliance leadership. Many of them have a don't ask don't tell policy, that technically is not tolerance. It is a result of them not being able to police it and not wanting to take the rap if CCP finds out what people are doing in their space.
So... you are still inferring things. & that is why my statements were not detailed statements pertaining to who does what, where and under an auspices whom as Tippa invented. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
485
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Posted - 2012.02.02 04:21:00 -
[564] - Quote
If anything is taken from these 30 pages of stupidity, let it be one thing. I have attempted to maintain a singular stance based upon what I am saying, and ONLY WHAT I am saying. Focusing on that despite being poked and prodded to do other wise, with an overall goal to see what would transpire if I did.
I guess this is what happens when you do not allow yourself to be deviated on these forums. It just never ends.
RubyPorto & Tippa, you too are the best to experiment with. Top of the food chain on these douchebag gaming forums that seem devoid of all moderation. It has been enlightening and stupefying at the same time. I conclude that I have kind of sorta entertained Ruby who seems to enjoy debating as much as I do, and I sense a touch of infuriating coming from Tippa which I won't pretend not to enjoy I did after all design a T-shirt for him! Mwhaha!!
As it turns out these forums are an excellent experimental grounds for mastering the art of verbal bullshit. Best practice I have ever had. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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bilingi
Ghosts of the Storm
30
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Posted - 2012.02.02 05:40:00 -
[565] - Quote
Really Hes never seen a bot? HAHAHAHHA OMG talk about BS.... Now thats funny I dont care who you are.. |
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ISD Grossvogel
Community Communications Liaisons
22
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Posted - 2012.02.02 09:11:00 -
[566] - Quote
(Relocated from GD.)
Threadnaught cleanup complete; all explosive content removed and disposed of. Proceeding to the CCL rehab facility for a well-deserved soak in a hot tub. ISD Grossvogel (ISD -ô-Ç-+-ü-ü-ä-+-¦-¦-+-î) Captain, Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) -Æ-+-+-+-+-é-æ-Ç -¦-Ç-â-+-+-ï -+-+ -¦-+-¦-+-+-+-¦-¦-¦-ü-é-¦-+-Ä -ü -+-¦-Ç-+-¦-¦-+-+ Interstellar Services Department |
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Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
485
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Posted - 2012.02.02 12:11:00 -
[567] - Quote
ISD Grossvogel wrote:(Relocated from GD.)
Threadnaught cleanup complete; all explosive content removed and disposed of. Proceeding to the CCL rehab facility for a well-deserved soak in a hot tub.
Well... TBH I am glad that is over with LOL
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1353
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 15:06:00 -
[568] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:ISD Grossvogel wrote:(Relocated from GD.)
Threadnaught cleanup complete; all explosive content removed and disposed of. Proceeding to the CCL rehab facility for a well-deserved soak in a hot tub. Well... TBH I am glad that is over with LOL
You had the power to end it at any time. Good thing we still have EvE Search to mine the gold.
Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
250
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 15:37:00 -
[569] - Quote
Its rigged voting now, after ISD destroyed all the intel and info that was collected and being amassed here. Everyone is an ignorant voter now. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8649
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 23:34:00 -
[570] - Quote
Conrad Makbure wrote:There should be 2 CSM parties, one to represent the null community and one to represent the high sec community. There might not be bipartisan stance on anything, but it would show two sides to things when they come up.
But how do you determine the high sec community since it can be infiltrated much easier than the null sec community? I see no reason to make these false demarcations.
Most of the people you'd consider Null Sec players also play in High Sec. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM. |
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RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1356
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 23:41:00 -
[571] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Conrad Makbure wrote:There should be 2 CSM parties, one to represent the null community and one to represent the high sec community. There might not be bipartisan stance on anything, but it would show two sides to things when they come up.
But how do you determine the high sec community since it can be infiltrated much easier than the null sec community? I see no reason to make these false demarcations. Most of the people you'd consider Null Sec players also play in High Sec.
More importantly, parties are voluntary organizations of people that grow and collapse organically, so if you want a HiSec party to exist, CREATE IT. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
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