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Deimos change: WTF?

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Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.02 14:13:00 - [61] Edited by: Spenz on 02/02/2008 14:14:48 wow.... I forgot about the mwd thing. So the new "improved" deimos actually gets LESS cap. So it gets less cap, less damage, less tank, but gets a bonus to ARMOR REPPING (wow like deimos' were rep-tanked all the time yeah) and an extra midslot (which is great.....if you can actually find a way of fitting a decent repair setup without using rigs). Everyone can tell you what will improve the deimos: -1 High +1 Mid That's it. You don't have to go re-inventing the wheel all the time (like you are doing now). Sure you will still be strapped for grid, but at least with a 4th mid you would have a realistic way of combating the deimos' cap anemia problem. This new deimos though is just a joke and a mistake. Somehow though I have a bad feeling that ccp just doesn't care. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
Lumberjackhammer Caldari Wildlands Heavy Technologies FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.02 15:00:00 - [62] As always, note that these changes are subject to change based on further testing. We will be keeping a close eye on the Deimos in particular. keep the whine up and they wont change it :)
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2008.02.02 15:02:00 - [63] Originally by: Lumberjackhammer keep the whine up and they wont change it :) working as hard as i can
Herz Ing	Posted - 2008.02.02 16:03:00 - [64] Edited by: Herz Ing on 02/02/2008 16:03:21 Originally by: Aries Acheron The point of the repairer bonus is negated by the loss of a lowslot. If you take the largely useless 6th High, and made it a low.. the Deimos is then fine. 5/4/6 setup, hooray. It works fine, and isn't overpowered pwn. 5/4/6 SIGNED SIGNED SIGNED SIGNED x100000000000000 And give back the MWD bonus, please! It's what makes the Deimos the Deimos.
Jacob Holland Gallente 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2008.02.02 16:14:00 - [65] I have to agree that the loss of a lowslot and the change from an MWD bonus to a repair bonus is more than counter productive. If an additional midslot is needed (and I'm not certain it is) to enable a cap booster to be fitted then if that is what will balance the ship that's fine. But there are two things to consider if that is the aim, (1) The booster will take additional PG and CPU, if it's not competing now then how is it going to compete with the additional fittings hog? (2) If it is concluded that additional slots are a necessity then why not do a Minmatar Battlecruiser to fill that need? If it is not necessary then look at the alternative methods of increasing its ability to tank without reducing its damage...etc. The obvious route is to remove the utility Highslot, but I suspect that this is actually a means to discourage the use of plates, make resists more effective and therefore force more significant resist holes. Conclusion: If the Deimos is not competitive against other short range HACs (primarily due to the drive to make combats last longer) then make it competitive, this does not include reducing its tank by removing a low, reducing its damage potential and its tank by reducing its effective capacitor and then trying to compensate for these losses by giving it an active repair bonus and a midslot for capacitor. If the Deimos is uncompetitive against the Sacrilege then boost it by all means, if it's uncompetitive against the new Zealot then consider what changes it was which made it that way... even better, allow the dust to settle with regard to the Amarr changes before reevaluating the situation, perhaps the best method is to increase its dronebay somewhat (without increasing the bandwidth) to allow it to load ECM drones and Damage drones but it certainly isn't to take away from its tank twice and force it to fit particular modules in order to compensate for thge loss. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Jolinar Malkshur Divine Retribution Divine 0rder	Posted - 2008.02.02 16:18:00 - [66] Can you please leave my ships alone ccp just go boost your amarr and caldari and please leave gallente alone for the love of God your not helping the situation. I like how my diemos is designed for one thing and one thing only kill kill kill leave the multi tasking for the ishtar. P.S. Mimitar need some love'n go bother them "Some one ever tries to kill you, you try to kill them right back" - Malcolm Reynolds
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild	Posted - 2008.02.02 16:25:00 - [67] Originally by: Spenz Everyone can tell you what will improve the deimos: -1 High +1 Mid That's it. You don't have to go re-inventing the wheel all the time (like you are doing now). Sure you will still be strapped for grid, but at least with a 4th mid you would have a realistic way of combating the deimos' cap anemia problem. This new deimos though is just a joke and a mistake. /signed The Deimos was one of the few ships in the game that had a very clearly defined role, was very good at it, and managed to remain not overpowerd at the same time. And this is coming from someone who's been ganked by a few. They're blaster boats, plain and simple. They do damage at point blank range, they don't worry about tank. This change will make them far less useful. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Lottie Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.02 16:50:00 - [68] Originally by: Lady Antares This is quite possibly the worst change ever Agreed
Khorian Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.02.02 17:30:00 - [69] Holy crap, Zulu, don't do this please. The deimos is fine as it is. I never have cap issues. I can run the MWD permanently or guns and MAR, a cap booster is totally not needed. Adding a mid for a low slot will only sacrifice valuable lowslots for a questionable "improvement". The deimos needs all its current lowslots to perform its only viable role: 3x MagStabs, 1x expl Hardener to stuff the Resist hole, DCU to prolong the ineviteable, 1x MAR: Heavy Assault Gang Gank Machine. This is why most people love this ship and fly it. We accepted that it is a one trick pony, but for this we also love it dearly ;P If you want to add a midslot, take it from the highs, alltho I agree that it might be overpowered then. But before you take a low slot away best don't change it at all. The armor repair bonus can't compensate the loss of resist, or you would have to sacrifice DPS, the sole purpose of this ship! Go ask the Director and Designers of Duvolle Labs. The Deimos is fine as it is. It doesn't need this change. I would hate to see this ship ruined, i love it as it is. ---
Krikin The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services	Posted - 2008.02.02 17:44:00 - [70] Edited by: Krikin on 02/02/2008 17:44:51 imo I prefer having a armor rep bonus and a boost to cap over a plain mwd bonus xD. even slapping in a small repper has a decent repping power, specially with rigs. they just need to rethink their removal of the low slot to add to the middle slot instead of removing the high slot(zealot in sisi has no free high slots once the 5 turrets are in place), and/or give it more power grid. _____________________________________________ \\o \o/ o//
Sgt Napalm Synergy Fundacion	Posted - 2008.02.02 17:45:00 - [71] In case you all haven't realized it by now Zulu & the crew is systematically destroying the blaster line up of Galentte ships. Just another nail in the ol coffin.
Khorian Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.02.02 18:31:00 - [72] Originally by: Krikin "As always, note that these changes are subject to change based on further testing. We will be keeping a close eye on the Deimos in particular." chill mates (for now ^_^) Better to speak up now than when its too late. ---
Ivan Kinsikor Amarr International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.02 18:39:00 - [73] There weren't any whines getting posted on these forums about the deimos, what reason could ccp possibly have to go and do this to the Deimos? I was about to go buy one, but unless these changes get reversed, I doubt I'll do that now. If it needs a tweak, then yes, 5/4/6 is the way to go. The Deimos is losing everything that made it an interesting ship to me, because with these changes they are forcing us into a tank fit on what was supposed to be a gank ship. Killing is business and business is good.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.02 18:40:00 - [74] WTF CCP? WTF?! == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Dingus Rx Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.02.02 20:22:00 - [75] signed - worst change ever CCP, stop killing role specialties.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.02.02 20:26:00 - [76] Just.... WTF? I don't even fly Gallente (I prefer Minmatar), but this is no way to kill a already sub-par ship. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Zephyr Rengate Racketeers	Posted - 2008.02.02 20:37:00 - [77] This change seems really strange since i have not read ONE boost/nerf Deimos thread for ages. Currently it does what its meant to do with ease : Rush in with MWD and ***your target. If i wanted a high damage blaster ship with a repper bonus i would be flying a brutix, or hyperion not a deimos. I hope CCP adjust the change to remove 1 high and put that as the new med, not ***** about with the vital lows. I've not checked but can a Deimos run 5 Neutrons, med repper and injector without having to use 2 PG rigs? If it does need 2 PG rigs to do what its designed for then it clearly needs a PG increase. And it does not have much cargo bay to even hold that many booster charges.
Javeoon	Posted - 2008.02.02 20:46:00 - [78] while most everyone here flames about how much the hate the change (whilst 90% of you don't even fly a Deimos) I would just like to point out that the change is actually good. My old setup: x5 Ion IIs x1 Small Nos MWD,Scram,MCB (medium cap booster) MARII,explosive hardner,eanm,dmg cntrl,x2 Magstabs New Setup: x5 Ions IIs x1 Small Nos MWD,Scram,web,mcb marII,explosive,eanm,x2 Magstabs Same DPS and now with the rep bonus the tank is roughly the same. Get over it. Granted I would rather drop the small nos for a med slot, but it is still a good change.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.02.02 20:51:00 - [79] Well, I guess you could fit a injector and a four/five slot dual-rep tank + electrons and do absolutely nothing with its 6th highslot. I see nothing else that would make sense on the Deimos, and then you might as well use the Brutix, really. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 21:03:00 - [80] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate I've not checked but can a Deimos run 5 Neutrons, med repper and injector without having to use 2 PG rigs? If it does need 2 PG rigs to do what its designed for then it clearly needs a PG increase. it doesn't, but then again, fitting a MAR there to rep armor while in battle is a waste of cap. buffer HP setups work better in the deimos roles, since you just have to outlast and outdamage your enemy, and not outtank him. --- planetary interaction idea!
XrayZ Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.02 22:14:00 - [81] aww maaan... as someone said... stop killing specced ppl (or whatever) this sucks big time. as a deimos pilot i dont aprove of this, unless its teh 5/4/6 layout. (reasons mentioned above from other players) and the mwd ship bonus is there for a reason. DONT TAKE THE MWD BONUS AWAY!!!! and screw the repper bonus, if u get ganked or are primary, wont matter how much rep bonus u have, ur still toast. the deimos is good as it is atm... dont change it or you¦ll make baby jesus cry among other things. its not overpowered, no whines about it whatsoever. u ppl at CCP just like to mess with ppls heads or just **** us off? o7 --------------------------------------
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.02 22:27:00 - [82] If you really wanna change the deimos, high for med please.... just leave those lows alone...
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.02.02 22:34:00 - [83] Originally by: Amanda Shadowsword Originally by: CherniyVolk Originally by: Awox Is it another one of Zulupark's ideas? I don't know many people who even fit repairers on deimos, let alone medium ones. Of course the logic behind such fits is to kill or be killed, and if you are shooting you cannot have enough capacitor to repair anyways... Whoever it was, whatever they are smoking cannot be legal - not even in iceland. What? No rep on a Deimos? Are you kidding? Btw, you can perma run your repper, and guns on a Deimos. You can even perma run the MWD and repper. Train up your Engineering skills. That means ****all when everyone and they're mother fits neuts. Just as well you have a mid for an injector then. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 22:40:00 - [84] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Amanda Shadowsword Originally by: CherniyVolk Originally by: Awox Is it another one of Zulupark's ideas? I don't know many people who even fit repairers on deimos, let alone medium ones. Of course the logic behind such fits is to kill or be killed, and if you are shooting you cannot have enough capacitor to repair anyways... Whoever it was, whatever they are smoking cannot be legal - not even in iceland. What? No rep on a Deimos? Are you kidding? Btw, you can perma run your repper, and guns on a Deimos. You can even perma run the MWD and repper. Train up your Engineering skills. That means ****all when everyone and they're mother fits neuts. Just as well you have a mid for an injector then. wich will get out of charges in... 4 burns? --- planetary interaction idea!
V0idz Herrscher der Zeit	Posted - 2008.02.02 23:01:00 - [85] April Fool's Day? a bit too early ccp... _____________________________________ EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.02.03 01:47:00 - [86] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: James Lyrus Just as well you have a mid for an injector then. wich will get out of charges in... 4 burns? Well, given you are going to be stuck with using electrons from now on anyway, you might as well drop the falloff bonus and give it a 20%/level cargo capacity bonus Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kieran Jarnush	Posted - 2008.02.03 04:55:00 - [87] tbh i fail to see why it needs another mid (1 less high or low doesn't matter) cause as it stands the deimos hasn't enough pg to squeeze in a cap booster if we're talking about the cookie cutter blaster setup.
FamersUsedTo BeatUs	Posted - 2008.02.03 06:34:00 - [88] As it stands with the new changes, a beagle will do better dps then a damn Deimos.... no powergrid, removing a lowslot..... crappy repping bonus for the unique MWD bonus we all loved..... CCP is just trying to make us get ****ed off at things other then lagg at this point. -1 highslot +1 midslot + a pinch of cpu/grid to make it work. /signed
LOwRANCE Divine Retribution Divine 0rder	Posted - 2008.02.03 06:42:00 - [89] Is that the describtion ?! of the dymos ? I hope everybody can read aan understand it ! Hull: Thorax Class Role: Heavy Assault Ship Sharing more tactical elements with smaller vessels than with its size-class counterparts, the Deimos represents the final word in up-close-and-personal cruiser combat. Venture too close to this one, and swift death is your only guarantee. Developer: Duvolle Labs Rumor has it Duvolle was contracted by parties unknown to create the ultimate close-range blaster cruiser. In this their engineers and designers haven't failed; but the identity of the company's client remains to be discovered. 5/4/6 preferred !! with the emp resist changes its to bad to get a slight tank on it ! No good idea !
rotweiler Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.02.03 06:56:00 - [90] These changes prove at 100% that Zulupark and his team are seriously lacking EVE experience. Honestly getting hired in a company for a product change job , you MUST know the said product inside out. PROVE me wrong zulu, but you made a fool of yourself unfortunately, and even worse EVE players that read the forums have already lost confidence on your work ability. You called the DEIMOS changes a boost. I call them proof of incompetence. nough said

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