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Deimos change: WTF?

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Surreptitious Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 07:29:00 - [91] Sooooo,,,, now we have two Phobos in the game? Well thought out Zulu. Syrup
Espejo Roto The Azimuth	Posted - 2008.02.03 07:40:00 - [92] "we looked into boosting its defenses so it had a fighting chance." (about the deimos) I originally posted this in another thread, but I may as well post it here, too. The only thing that I read when I saw the devblog was "To make you tougher, we are going to take away a tankslot." Don't get me wrong, I do see the good in the changes, but there are the other issues: - To keep the best dps, you need an ancillary current router instead of an rcu (tiny cost difference there) - The slot was added specifically for a capacitor booster, but the pg remains insufficient to support a medium without severely dropping the damage output, or adding a second ancillary and kissing off all rig flexibility. - The mwd bonus loss is still LESS cap after the cap modification, but that is okay as long as you have boosters, I know, but... - How many boosters are you going to carry in a cargo of 315 - ammo space? I may be viewing this wrong, but to me, This is how I see the change. The deimos will survive better than it does now, until you chew through your short supply of boosters. At that point, you are flying the same ship as before, but with about 60m worth of rigs to fuel the blue flash. Otherwise, you could just get in a phobos if all you're going to fit is ions anyway, and have a better tank. At least you could have rig options on the phobos. Don't be too harsh on this noob's evaluation. I do fly my deimos as a mixed dps/tackler, so I do try to tank a little bit. The change is just rubbish, though. I like her how she is, but I wouldn't complain at all for the 5/4/6. Hell, just leave it alone. It works, and I don't know anyone complaining about her as she is now. -roto
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.02.03 07:54:00 - [93] dont whine, the deimos is fine. if you like a 6th low slot then give the sac a 6th too and atleast 25m¦ dronebay/bandwith, maybe then we can talk about it
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:17:00 - [94] Originally by: Cpt Cosmic dont whine, the deimos is fine. if you like a 6th low slot then give the sac a 6th too and atleast 25m¦ dronebay/bandwith, maybe then we can talk about it Maybe the Sac deserves a tanking boost too, just like the Deimos... --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Grapez Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:28:00 - [95] Man, I come back to Eve after a break to find this?
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.02.03 10:52:00 - [96] Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 03/02/2008 10:52:06 Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Cpt Cosmic dont whine, the deimos is fine. if you like a 6th low slot then give the sac a 6th too and atleast 25m¦ dronebay/bandwith, maybe then we can talk about it Maybe the Sac deserves a tanking boost too, just like the Deimos... the sac already has a tanking bonus XD (or 2 if you count the cap bonus)
Plave Okice Gallente Red.	Posted - 2008.02.03 11:38:00 - [97] If they really want to help its survivability give it 5% armour per level or something, hell, 2.5%, just not a bloody rep bonus. I thought it was fine as it was, yeah I'd rather the 4th mid added and a high dropped, but that's no big deal. Red CEORed Vs Blue
Varshyll	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:15:00 - [98] Simply remove one high slot and put a med slot instead : _Gank Deimos wil be better, with a tracking comp or a sensor booster _Tank (?) Deimos will be available, with electron/cap booster/Mar Do NOT touch to bonuses, grid/cpu/capa.
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:20:00 - [99] Originally by: Varshyll Simply remove one high slot and put a med slot instead : _Gank Deimos wil be better, with a tracking comp or a sensor booster _Tank (?) Deimos will be available, with electron/cap booster/Mar Do NOT touch to bonuses, grid/cpu/capa. Demious is great with the change. Stop playing eve 2006 fitouts. Its 2008 and game balance has changed a lot and deimos would be obsolete without the change. Keep the utility slot for deimos as it is required. Sig locked, lack of Eve content
wierchas noobhunter Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:23:00 - [100] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Varshyll Simply remove one high slot and put a med slot instead : _Gank Deimos wil be better, with a tracking comp or a sensor booster _Tank (?) Deimos will be available, with electron/cap booster/Mar Do NOT touch to bonuses, grid/cpu/capa. Demious is great with the change. Stop playing eve 2006 fitouts. Its 2008 and game balance has changed a lot and deimos would be obsolete without the change. Keep the utility slot for deimos as it is required. stick to your amarr whinning plz and tbh we blame u for this deimos changes transformers!! do u see them ?
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:27:00 - [101] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Varshyll Simply remove one high slot and put a med slot instead : _Gank Deimos wil be better, with a tracking comp or a sensor booster _Tank (?) Deimos will be available, with electron/cap booster/Mar Do NOT touch to bonuses, grid/cpu/capa. Demious is great with the change. Stop playing eve 2006 fitouts. Its 2008 and game balance has changed a lot and deimos would be obsolete without the change. Keep the utility slot for deimos as it is required. stick to your amarr whinning plz and tbh we blame u for this deimos changes Please tell me how different your current Deimos is from one oyu fitted out in 2006? Point noted. Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:32:00 - [102] Edited by: Grimpak on 03/02/2008 12:32:23 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Varshyll Simply remove one high slot and put a med slot instead : _Gank Deimos wil be better, with a tracking comp or a sensor booster _Tank (?) Deimos will be available, with electron/cap booster/Mar Do NOT touch to bonuses, grid/cpu/capa. Demious is great with the change. Stop playing eve 2006 fitouts. Its 2008 and game balance has changed a lot and deimos would be obsolete without the change. Keep the utility slot for deimos as it is required. stick to your amarr whinning plz and tbh we blame u for this deimos changes Please tell me how different your current Deimos is from one oyu fitted out in 2006? Point noted. well for first, the fitting you use today with no grid mods, no plates, just neutrons and a DCU, expl. hardener and SAR wouldn't fit. there was no grid available, untill they boosted the grid some 3-4 months ago. yes, the all-might gank neutron deimos didn't exist, unless you slapped ACR's or RCU's in it. it was also slower than it is and fatter. so before you come and say that the deimos changes are fine, remember that it was boosted to the way it is just a couple of months ago. --- planetary interaction idea!
wierchas noobhunter Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:32:00 - [103] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Varshyll Simply remove one high slot and put a med slot instead : _Gank Deimos wil be better, with a tracking comp or a sensor booster _Tank (?) Deimos will be available, with electron/cap booster/Mar Do NOT touch to bonuses, grid/cpu/capa. Demious is great with the change. Stop playing eve 2006 fitouts. Its 2008 and game balance has changed a lot and deimos would be obsolete without the change. Keep the utility slot for deimos as it is required. stick to your amarr whinning plz and tbh we blame u for this deimos changes Please tell me how different your current Deimos is from one oyu fitted out in 2006? Point noted. its not different .. i would better fly thorax now and then .. at least it don't cost 100 mils transformers!! do u see them ?
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:36:00 - [104] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 03/02/2008 12:36:46 Originally by: Grimpak so before you come and say that the deimos changes are fine, remember that it was boosted to the way it is just a couple of months ago. Why fit the ebst guns, we amarr have to use lowest tier guns (focused Pulse/Beam) so you guys can also follow suit if your fitting problems are that bad. This is a massive boost due to cap booster and rep. People will now change from glass cannon to proper enjoyable combat. Again, you are still using 2006 pvp concept and not 2008 pvp, where a cap booster is required pretty much. If that does not cheer you up, then perhaps The theme of Lapute on a Guitar will Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:44:00 - [105] Originally by: Cpt Cosmic Originally by: Ogul Maybe the Sac deserves a tanking boost too, just like the Deimos... the sac already has a tanking bonus XD (or 2 if you count the cap bonus) No it really should receive a tanking boost, we should start with moving one low to a med slot... --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:46:00 - [106] Edited by: Grimpak on 03/02/2008 12:46:51 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 03/02/2008 12:36:46 Originally by: Grimpak so before you come and say that the deimos changes are fine, remember that it was boosted to the way it is just a couple of months ago. Why fit the ebst guns, we amarr have to use lowest tier guns (focused Pulse/Beam) so you guys can also follow suit if your fitting problems are that bad. This is a massive boost due to cap booster and rep. People will now change from glass cannon to proper enjoyable combat. Again, you are still using 2006 pvp concept and not 2008 pvp, where a cap booster is required pretty much. If that does not cheer you up, then perhaps oh, and you couldn't fit the zealot before in a similar way? cap boosted would run out after 3-4 cycles and the rep would't help you at 1km range, where all the firepower of the deimos can be unleashed. but then again, you never fought at those ranges now did you? --- planetary interaction idea!
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:47:00 - [107] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Cpt Cosmic Originally by: Ogul Maybe the Sac deserves a tanking boost too, just like the Deimos... the sac already has a tanking bonus XD (or 2 if you count the cap bonus) No it really should receive a tanking boost, we should start with moving one low to a med slot... They did if I remember correctly.
wierchas noobhunter Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:47:00 - [108] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 03/02/2008 12:36:46 Originally by: Grimpak so before you come and say that the deimos changes are fine, remember that it was boosted to the way it is just a couple of months ago. Why fit the ebst guns, we amarr have to use lowest tier guns (focused Pulse/Beam) so you guys can also follow suit if your fitting problems are that bad. This is a massive boost due to cap booster and rep. People will now change from glass cannon to proper enjoyable combat. Again, you are still using 2006 pvp concept and not 2008 pvp, where a cap booster is required pretty much. If that does not cheer you up, then perhaps oh, and you couldn't fit the zealot before in a similar way? remember kids eve 2008 pvp is about blobs .. who cares what u fit or how u fit transformers!! do u see them ?
XrayZ Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:53:00 - [109] dont say like that noobhunter :( i like solo/small gang pvp, dont give the kids pointers. the gallente basher jojo or whatever hes name is aparently never flown a deimos before. 2006 u couldnt fit it like u do today, and now its perfect imho. the tank bonus is gonna be poo, as u cant tank anything anyway, u lose all gank potential in this ship if u want a dual mar or something, and u can fit what? 3-4 cap boosters in ur cargo :/ yey \o/ zulu - u make baby jesus cry. --------------------------------------
wierchas noobhunter Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:59:00 - [110] Originally by: XrayZ dont say like that noobhunter :( i like solo/small gang pvp, dont give the kids pointers. the gallente basher jojo or whatever hes name is aparently never flown a deimos before. 2006 u couldnt fit it like u do today, and now its perfect imho. the tank bonus is gonna be poo, as u cant tank anything anyway, u lose all gank potential in this ship if u want a dual mar or something, and u can fit what? 3-4 cap boosters in ur cargo :/ yey \o/ zulu - u make baby jesus cry. ♥ transformers!! do u see them ?
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.03 13:28:00 - [111] I don't even fly Deimos and still think this is a stupid change.
oniplE Blue.	Posted - 2008.02.03 13:43:00 - [112] Edited by: oniplE on 03/02/2008 13:44:01 Originally by: XrayZ dont say like that noobhunter :( i like solo/small gang pvp, dont give the kids pointers. the gallente basher jojo or whatever hes name is aparently never flown a deimos before. 2006 u couldnt fit it like u do today, and now its perfect imho. the tank bonus is gonna be poo, as u cant tank anything anyway, u lose all gank potential in this ship if u want a dual mar or something, and u can fit what? 3-4 cap boosters in ur cargo :/ yey \o/ zulu - u make baby jesus cry. You can fit 9 cap booster 800's, that leaves room for 1080 Void M. So if you have 8 boosters you should be able to store enough ammo. 8 boosters are not enough for roaming gangs, they'll be depleted in no-time. As for tanking, the deimos can be set up to activly tank a lot of damage. Its just that this new deimos does NOT deliver a much stronger tank, the active tank is improved with less than 10%. The bonus adds rep amount, but you lack a slot to add an extra EANM so it compensates. This also means the effective hitpoint buffer you have is smaller than a pre-nerf deimos. If CCP intended this to be a boost, they could have just added 450 (thats what its going to take to compensate for the removal of the MWD bonus, 250 is pathetic) cap and replace the MWD bonus with the rep amount bonus and leave the slot layout like it was. It still would have been a strange bonus for a gank ship but atleast the active tank would improve with significant numbers, while retaining effective hitpoints and keeping the option open to a gank deimos with 6 low slots. x
Akiman Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.02.03 14:04:00 - [113] u cant tank sh1t on deimos. rep bonus is out of question. other than that 4 meds looks nice if it didnt have pg issues.any blaster ship needs injector and any gallente knows it. but more than that any ship needs proper pg :P
Avataris The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.02.03 14:07:00 - [114] I cant see how these changes are meant to be an improvement to the deimos. Losing a lowslot means I need to either have weaker armor resist (-EANM2) or lower damage output (-MFS2). So i actually end up with a ship that can tank less damage than before, and takes longer to kill things. Great. Can I even fit a medium cap booster without having to downgrade my guns? I doubt it, as I can remember my grid is already so tight I cant use my useless 6th highslot. So even less damage output. If anything, far from using the new mid for a capbooster, I'll probably try a passive buffer shield tank and nano it -that way i can keep my neutrons and my damage mods in lows. Either that or fit a 2nd webber in my new mid.. hmm
ChalSto Divine Retribution Divine 0rder	Posted - 2008.02.03 14:18:00 - [115] Dear CCP, would YOU please, for the love of god, employ only Devs, who actually PLAY the game? Kind regards PS: 5/4/6 Evil will allways triumph, becouse Good is dumb
captain kikaz LEGI0N	Posted - 2008.02.03 14:34:00 - [116] Not at all happy about this. it is absolutely going to need power grid rigs to make any viable fit whatsoever. thanks ccp as if we didn't have enough isk sinks now I have to grind more to make up the money for the rigs that I will be forced to fit to my Demios , to make it competative. wts demios convo me
XrayZ Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.03 14:34:00 - [117] Originally by: ChalSto Dear CCP, would YOU please, for the love of god, employ only Devs, who actually PLAY the game? Kind regards PS: 5/4/6 this --------------------------------------
BABARR PARABELUM-Project	Posted - 2008.02.03 14:44:00 - [118] After a lot of patch/nerf/adjustement, the deimos was able (AT LEAST) to have a decent fit in T2, whith no CPU or grid issue. And now.... you want to change it. 4 med slot, why not, an armor rep bonus, why not, BUT if for that you remove a low slot, we are going to lose dmg output or resist, and if you remove the MWD cap bonus, we are all going to fit a cap injector, so use more powergrid, so fit smaller gun. Finaly, i don't really see what the change going to improve, we just going to have a more eficient armor rep, but less DPS or less resist. ... "Si vis pacem, parabellum"
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2008.02.03 15:08:00 - [119] Before I start, I do not fly a Deimos. I have no stake in this change. However it does seem rather counter-intuitive. In order to make use of this midslot one needs to downgrade guns. This takes away a fair chunk of the DPS you want it to stay alive to use. Furthermore, it has less cap than before, meaning it will have more trouble running a repper, especially given as above where someone showed that you can only carry a token number of charges + a small amount of one ammo. If you want a second type you must chop the amount you carry in half. As it stands you can only carry a tiny bit more than one full reload for electrons, so with two ammo types people will be fighting with guns that are less-than-full. A much more viable solution has been suggested. Subtract the utility high and make it a midslot, perhaps a tiny bit of fitting to make a booster workable. If you keep the rep bonus, then add enough cap to put the ship on par with the cap amount before the MWD bonus was removed. There is your reasoned discussion CCP. Reasoned, impartial discussion as to why this change is not an advisable idea. ---------------- Originally by: "Cyberus" cause its has no sence anyway your brains is simply wont accept that anyway.
Solomon XI Caldari Dawn of Chaos	Posted - 2008.02.03 15:38:00 - [120] Dear CCP: I don't fly a Deimos yet. But I've been training for one. This change effects me. Do you really want to help the Deimos? I mean, really help the Deimos? And not screw it completely over like your current idea's would? Do this. 5 High Slots 4 Mid Slots 6 Low Slots +Powergrid +CPU +Cargo Room Keep the Rep Bonus Properly Calculate The Cap Change (Instead of +250, do +500) Decrease the Cap Recharge Time Slightly.

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