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Deimos change: WTF?

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0m3g4 w34p0n Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.02.05 00:53:00 - [151] Originally by: Marramin I am a Thorax pilot who was skilling slowly for the Deimos. Not anymore. No logic here at all. This is Thorax hull and this means MWD bonus. Why having the Tech II version drops the base MWD bonus. No point. And by the way, why not changed the ship description in game. At this point, it is all false. If i was not reading the board, i wouldn't know. Have to change my plans now. Good job. yeah, because listening to what the majority of people say on this fourm is a good idea.
Corphus The NewOrder	Posted - 2008.02.05 01:48:00 - [152] i said it already but the current deimos change is nuts and as u see it in this thread is not really accepted as a good and well thought out idea. if u want to make the deimos better and more resilent than: change the utility hi slot into a 4th med instead of stealing a low. its an armour tanked ship afterall. leave the mwd bonus in place or if u totally want to change the mwd bonus into a rep related one give the deimos at least enuff cap capacity to compensate for the mwd penalty completely. add 100m¦ to its cargobay for booster charges. same goes for the zealot which is currently the hac with the smallest cargobay and which uses cap for both, guns and repping.
JustAddWatah Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2008.02.05 01:50:00 - [153] Originally by: Aston Gulliver I've been a deimos pilot for a little over a year. I quit flying the ship 2 months ago. Its a primary bucket and doesn't have the defenses to justify its role. While I think this "buff" was well intentioned, the slot layout is less than optimal. To be frank, if you don't gank the target, a single medium rep isn't going to save you. 2-3 mag stabs on a deimos is a must for this which leave 2-3 low slots for tanking (assuming the new changes on sisi as well as assuming you've double grid rigged the thing to fit neutrons, cap injector, micro and a medium rep). The rep bonus does not solve the deimos' inability to tank, and the loss of a low slot compounds the issue. How about changing the rep bonus to a resist bonus? It would benefit both active and passive tanking. The high --> low slot change would be welcome as well. THIS! My main complaint is the bonuses... Adding a repair bonus and removing a low slot is like adding a drone damage bonus and removing a drone bay. I like the idea of an increase in resists!! I guess the devs want everyone in Brutixes...or even worse, more people in Nano-ishtars Nice! way to ruin a perfectly balanced ship.
Durethia Momentum. The Reckoning.	Posted - 2008.02.05 04:15:00 - [154] CCP I might simply be a 'gamer' here, but seriously. The changes to the Deimos and the changes to the EM armor resists are ridiculous. I really do think someone high on the food chain should be pointing and *****ing about this; and fix this issue before it goes live. Not a single Deimos pilot welcomes this change. And, as before when the Deimos did suck with laughable powergrid and pathetic speed... even people who do NOT fly the Deimos are complaining. Why is this wonderful ship, always picked on like a red-headed step child?
Kaiji Vincente	Posted - 2008.02.05 08:27:00 - [155] Originally by: Wardeneo Edited by: Wardeneo on 04/02/2008 09:26:52 Originally by: Solomon XI Dear CCP: I don't fly a Deimos yet. But I've been training for one. This change effects me. (Commentary with numbers I agree with but have removed for brevity.) this person read my mind, i feel an idiot for posting the same thing in my comment lol wardeneo It affects everyone who's trained or planning to train Gallente Cruiser V, because that's the universal prereq for all the Tech II gallente hulls. Which ones you aim for (first) are just a matter of supporting skills. But the main point: I like flying the Thorax because it's fitting quirks work best with a tactical approach that is fundamentally -different- from the Brutix, Myrmidon, or Vexor. And more importantly, one that I find to be FUN. Sure, the Demios (as it is on TQ) is heavily specalized towards this particular role. But with this complete reshuffling, it's unique flavor is discarded. Now, it comes across as the ship you get while training for the Astarte, but have no compelling reason to use while doing so. A situation which smacks very distastefully of "you must first reach level X to use this new, all around better $ITEM" artificial variety that Blizzard is so damned fond of. If Tech II gallente combat ships are being reduced to nothing more than variations on a single theme, please tell us in advance. Don't suprise people with making a bunch of ships linear upgrades of the same concept, with each new step rendering the previous ones obsolete once it's obtained. (Doubly so when the general consensus is that it's the result of half baked tinkering that was dropped onto SiSi directly from notes scribbled on a bar napkin the night before.)
Julius Romanus Amarr Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.05 08:32:00 - [156] Originally by: Durethia CCP I might simply be a 'gamer' here, but seriously. The changes to the Deimos and the changes to the EM armor resists are ridiculous. I really do think someone high on the food chain should be pointing and *****ing about this; and fix this issue before it goes live. Not a single Deimos pilot welcomes this change. And, as before when the Deimos did suck with laughable powergrid and pathetic speed... even people who do NOT fly the Deimos are complaining. Why is this wonderful ship, always picked on like a red-headed step child? Just so we're clear, you actually think the em resist change is a bad idea?
Lelulie Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.02.05 09:14:00 - [157] Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Xequecal The Deimos has 1625 base capacitor now. You got your MWD cap bonus FOR FREE, WITHOUT even having to fit a MWD. You get a free bonus and you're whining about it. Typical Gallente. no I don't. I still have less cap than I have now (1719) BASE capacitor. That's BEFORE Engineering. The Deimos' current base cap is 1375. God damn. Deimos on TQ with MWD = 1718 cap. Deimos on Sisi with MWD = 1523 cap as there's no bonus, just a higher starting point now. No one's gonna use an Afterburner on it. ------------------------------------
Adamantium Beams Section XIII	Posted - 2008.02.05 10:33:00 - [158] Edited by: Adamantium Beams on 05/02/2008 10:33:51 Look like we now have 2 brutix, one w/ 7 guns who cost 25m and one w/ 5 guns but who cost 4 times more. 2 years of complain for a change and we are ****** 2 months later, good On the other hand we will have a 5 turrets zealot with 7 low slots, more gank, more range, more tank
Kieran Jarnush	Posted - 2008.02.05 11:11:00 - [159] wrong forums for this topic, moderators please move to "crime and punishment"
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.05 11:54:00 - [160] Originally by: Kieran Jarnush wrong forums for this topic, moderators please move to "crime and punishment" The only crime is that some people still don't see that the new Deimos will have less cap than the old one. But maybe someone will step forward to suggest fitting an afterburner to improve speed tanking. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Maeltstome Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.05 11:59:00 - [161] Originally by: Gallente WAH Try a muninn, then complain. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
TajelejaT Gallente Lithuanians	Posted - 2008.02.05 12:42:00 - [162] Give that rep bonus to remote armor repairer. So it could remoterep. It will be niew logistic ship at least. Or 2 deimos reping each other. Becouse now all I can put to 6 high slot is cd plaer, and die with good music
Shintoko Akahoshi Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.05 15:17:00 - [163] Originally by: Ogul The only crime is that some people still don't see that the new Deimos will have less cap than the old one. Tell me about it. Look, people: The old Deimos had 1375 cap. With Gallente cruiser V (which you needed to fly it, so every Deimos pilot will have it), your MWD penalty becomes 0. The new Deimos gets a boost of 250 cap, to 1625, but loses the MWD penalty bonus. Fit a MWD (which you honestly need, and don't anyone dare disagree), and you lose 406 of that cap, leaving you with 1219 cap. Last time I checked, 1219 < 1375. I love my Deimos just the way it is. Leave it, please. Shin's writings
Havok Pierce Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.05 16:35:00 - [164] Deimos pilot here. I like the ship as it is, but promise to log into the test server and see how you were going to make it. Over in Theoryland, however... -1 High, +1 Mid is a better way to go. Oh, and with the current setups, there's approximately a 30DPS difference between 5x ion and 5x neuts. Originally by: CCP Wrangler There's a Community petition category??
Lil Mule	Posted - 2008.02.05 16:38:00 - [165] Well hopefully CCP is listening. Yet again tinkering with stuff because of a lack of a consistent plan of what to do with a given ship line (Which should ideally be planned out 1-2 years in advance). I dont fly a Diemos, so I really cant comment, but if the ship isnt uber over powered, and people like its paper thin tank and all gank, then it should stand. Here you go gallente pilots, despite all the jabs against Amarr whining (yes I fly Amarr), I dont even fly the ship but the stats delivered make it sound like its going to be nerfed - and thus it shouldnt happen. So CCP please dont nerf this ship. Either find another way to make your vision of this ship happen, or better yet, leave it alone. ----------------------------------------------- People enjoy flying Amarr for the same reason they like being tied up in leather, whipped and called names
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.05 16:54:00 - [166] Originally by: Havok Pierce Oh, and with the current setups, there's approximately a 30DPS difference between 5x ion and 5x neuts. yes, but how do you setup a neutron deimos and an ion deimos? --- planetary interaction idea!
Khorian Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:06:00 - [167] Originally by: Havok Pierce Oh, and with the current setups, there's approximately a 30DPS difference between 5x ion and 5x neuts. You also lose about 20% of range. ---
Durethia Momentum. The Reckoning.	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:59:00 - [168] Originally by: Julius Romanus Just so we're clear, you actually think the em resist change is a bad idea? A grotesque idea, not just bad. Remember www.ogrish.com, where one used to get the real world news and in full gore and glory? That kind of horrid idea. 80% resists on any other damage type is generally regarded as a good tank. 80% resists on EM is generally considered NO tank. And only until you're smacked with pulse lasers do you realize you can't effectively tank the damage unless your resistances were +90% on EM. So gimping every armor tanker out there on EM is ridiculous. Besides, they have yet to state whether they were going to redistribute the loss points to some other damage type. gimp EM on all armor tankers, ok, place the point difference into explosive.
Julius Romanus Amarr Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:16:00 - [169] Originally by: Durethia Originally by: Julius Romanus Just so we're clear, you actually think the em resist change is a bad idea? A grotesque idea, not just bad. Remember www.ogrish.com, where one used to get the real world news and in full gore and glory? That kind of horrid idea. 80% resists on any other damage type is generally regarded as a good tank. 80% resists on EM is generally considered NO tank. And only until you're smacked with pulse lasers do you realize you can't effectively tank the damage unless your resistances were +90% on EM. So gimping every armor tanker out there on EM is ridiculous. Besides, they have yet to state whether they were going to redistribute the loss points to some other damage type. gimp EM on all armor tankers, ok, place the point difference into explosive. HAHAHA. At you, not with you. Here's a hint: I use pulse lasers.
Mortuus Minmatar Occassus Republica Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:23:00 - [170] Lolz at EM resist change being bad. I love it, and I use AC's. Anyway, about the Deimos, I think the current changes would be fine IF: It got a bit more cap or added fitting for that mid slot. As it is, you throw down another slot (that usually takes a hell of a lot more than a EANM t2 to fit) and PG upgrade to go with it? I mean if fitting an injector was viable then I could see the reduced cap. But without it.... Occassus Republica <3
Shintoko Akahoshi Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:52:00 - [171] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: Havok Pierce Oh, and with the current setups, there's approximately a 30DPS difference between 5x ion and 5x neuts. You also lose about 20% of range. Plus, in all likelihood, you lose a mag stab II. Remember, you're losing a low slot with this change. Assuming you already fit a MAR II, DCU II, EANM II, explosive hardener II and 2 mag stab IIs, you're faced with either significantly reducing your tank, or dropping a mag stab II. To me, that's the bigger woe here. I could live with a 5-4-6 Deimos that had to fit ion IIs, but an ion Deimos that couldn't fit a proper gank fit is just asking for trouble. Shin's writings
Robstr Solar Storm	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:04:00 - [172] Edited by: Robstr on 05/02/2008 21:06:32 If your running the Standard MAR2, Explosive Hardner, EAMN and DCU tank. If you remove the EANM with the changes your active tank will still actually be better than before. The repping bonus makes up for the loss(plus some) of the EANM at lvl4 hac. That's not to say I completely agree with the changes. Loosing a high slot instead of the low is a much better idea. Loosing that cap we had also sucks a good one. It hurts the passive setups a bit too much. But to me, it would all be resolved with a grid/cpu bump so we can fit t2 ions, a MWD, 2x med repper and a med cap booster and no grid mods. ====
Zanon Xiu Dogs 0f War	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:26:00 - [173] guys after todays patch the demios has 5 high slots, 4 med and 6 lows the rep bonus is still there and has 1635 cap.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.02.05 22:01:00 - [174] Originally by: Zanon Xiu guys after todays patch the demios has 5 high slots, 4 med and 6 lows the rep bonus is still there and has 1635 cap. They did it ? I mean ... Hell yeah !
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.05 22:10:00 - [175] Originally by: Trevor Warps Originally by: Zanon Xiu guys after todays patch the demios has 5 high slots, 4 med and 6 lows the rep bonus is still there and has 1635 cap. They did it ? I mean ... Hell yeah ! no it was a mistake from his part. --- planetary interaction idea!
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.02.05 22:12:00 - [176] Originally by: Grimpak no it was a mistake from his part. Oh god what a turn off !
Zanon Xiu The Scope	Posted - 2008.02.05 22:17:00 - [177] sorry guys my bad. i guess im so into seeing the damn ship as others mentioned. im so depressed my brains playing tricks with me Im so traumatize, when i go buy my next car i might be asking how many high slots and low slots it has. and if it can use a mwd.
Djerin Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:07:00 - [178] Being a Deimos pilot i aggree with most comments in this thread. The rep bonus wont turn the Deimos into a decent tank platform. It is intended to be a gank ship after all, hence the double damage bonus. Taking away a lowslot is like a massive nerf to this ship. This is because it reduces either damageouput or it's already little defensive potential. And doing this in combination with a significant boost to other hacs this is like an additional nerf to the deimos. Why are you doing this? There was no need to double nerf the Deimos. There wasn't even a need for a single nerf. The ship was fine for what it was intended to be. After those changes it will suck at it's purpose and fail any other job too. /me votes against changes. ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo
ChalSto Divine Retribution Divine 0rder	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:53:00 - [179] Edited by: ChalSto on 06/02/2008 11:56:41 Just a month ago, I was an outskilled gallente pilot, who flys the Deimos, as it should be. Since a month I thought, why not giving the Vagabound a chance. So I skilled for it and thats the result in comparison with the Deimos: Deimos: Extremly difficult ship to fly. I dont mean only skill whise, but the "player"-skill, that is highly recommend to use this ship.....I mean, if I could make a choise in the difficult-level in EvE, u have chosen "Nightmare". Like grim likes to say: glass-cannon. But the reward (remember, there is a risk/reward thingy in EvE, dear "Devs") , if u do everything right (and I god damn mean "everything", becouse if not, ur dead), is.....well i cant descibe it in words, just in feelings: "bang bang....ur dead dude ". From time to time I catch Vagas with it, becouse of the so called "kill-obssesion" of the most Vaga pilots . They pop, before they finish the sentence "OMG, I lost my shie.......BOOOM". Vagabound: I cant use T2-shieldExtenders yet, I cant use T2-guns with it yet. All named stuff. -> Set orbit 15km, klicky klicky, drones out, scrambler, and if something goes wrong, klicky, klicky, keep distance 50km, MWD on, ur safe. Hello? To fly this ship needs NOT BY FAR, NOT EVEN NEAR the "player-skill" to fly a Deimos. Vagabound is a very very fine solo-ship for ppl, who cant play EvE a lot of time and want to have some fun with "low-risk". (Please dont get upset, Minmatar-pilots, but this is a fact.) And now they want to change the Deimos, becouse there are lots of new players out there, who whining, they cant handle the Deimos the way it should be. Use a Vaga and dont whine. My massage to this players (who might be possibly Devs too): I¦M SO SORRY THAT YOU DONT HAVE THE SKILL AND THE INTELLIGENCE TO FLY THIS FINE SHIP. MY HEART BLEEDS. I¦M SO SORRY THAT GUYS LIKE YOU WILL ALLWAYS BE VICTIMS IN THIS GAME, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WHINE. CCP, fix players Oh, btw: 5/4/6 Evil will allways triumph, becouse Good is dumb
Djerin Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:55:00 - [180] Oh and by the way: we already have T2 cruisers for each arce that are designed to have good tanks. No need to do that in a Deimos.. ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo

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