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Burchov
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.04.07 12:39:00 -
[1]
There are a few spreadsheets that help you with invention by calculating the profit you can make (even EVE-MEEP does I think), but I didn't find these to be easy to use. So, instead of whining about it, I decided to make my own application. It will do as said, calculate the profit you make with invention, based on which decryptor you use, the number of runs on the T1 BPC, etc.
This application runs under Windows XP and Vista (64, but I don't see why it wouldn't work under 32). The source code is included, in case you're paranoid or want to make it work under Linux. It is written in Delphi.
Features:
- Accurate profit calculation based on invention parameters such as decryptor and T1 BPC runs. On average accurate that is, invention is still chance based.
- Retrieves prices directly from EVE-Central, or set prices yourself
- Formula for a successful invention is not fixed, you can edit it to your liking.
- Shopping list which lists all items you need to buy or manufacture, based on ME of the BPOs that you're using
- Storing of invention results, to see if you really are as (un)lucky as you think you are.
- A detailed help file, which seems to be missing in most EVE-related applications...
- And various minor features, such as coloring items based on their type to make them more visible, which decryptor should be used by default, which installations you use, etc.
Some screenshots:
Application
Invention formula
Item properties
Show info window
Shopping list
Invention results
Actual application:
Link to latest version (7-4-2008) If you get an error the first time you start the application stating that the invention formula was reset to the default, you can safely ignore it. The error happens when you use a locale that differs from mine, so the application doesn't understand the numbers used in the formula. It will fix this, and continue to work as normal.
Note that it is still a work in progress. I did quite a bit of testing, but there are probably plenty of bugs left in it. If you think you found a bug, or have a suggestion for the next version, by all means let me know, either here on the forums or ingame.
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Brunnis Jetrel
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Posted - 2008.04.07 13:08:00 -
[2]
Looks very nice, is there any way to get the app to link in to eve-central to get market price input into the app ?
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Zloy Dragon
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Posted - 2008.04.07 14:10:00 -
[3]
link not working
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Nefteus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.04.07 14:18:00 -
[4]
It works.
We tested it in corp first, so we all got very rich 
Shame its public now 
Great job.
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Sophie Daigneau
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Posted - 2008.04.07 16:08:00 -
[5]
Awesome work. 100m isk sent as a big thank your for doing this.
My initial feedback:
Allow an ability to highlight and set the ME levels of multiple items at once. Going through hundreds of items in the item list is a pain.
Also can you double check your build costs formula? Some of the build costs aren't scaling properly when doing a multiple run job. I couldn't accurately test the shopping list feature, but is your app smart enough to know if I add 150 units of a module, that's really 15x 10-run jobs and not a 1x 150-run job?
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Seetesh
Pixels Docks
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Posted - 2008.04.07 16:20:00 -
[6]
Woo excellent stuff, lets all send him isk! :)
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IronPants
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.07 16:41:00 -
[7]
Edited by: IronPants on 07/04/2008 16:42:40
Only played with this for a few minutes before work...
but loaded prices from eve central.
the build costs roughly matched the spreadsheet i created on my own for the invention projects I try. 3 percent difference probably due to some good prices I got on private contracts for some of the materials involved.
unfortantely it says that invention costs for 6 attempts with a decrpytor costs 995 million isk
(Should be 6*8.5M for decyrptor + 6* ~8M for datacores so 99.5M might be right but 995M is off by 10)
Any clue where to check to verify what went wrong?
so all values show up hugely negative.
i thought i manually checked the decyrptor / datacores prices but I was running late to work playing with this ....
will verify values again when I get home
but anyone else run into this off hand?
but if i can figure out that one error and get it working I concur this deserves some isky .
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Burchov
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.04.07 20:51:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Zloy Dragon
link not working
Link works fine actually, but you have to click it, and not right click it and "save as", then it fails.
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
Awesome work. 100m isk sent as a big thank your for doing this.
My initial feedback:
Allow an ability to highlight and set the ME levels of multiple items at once. Going through hundreds of items in the item list is a pain.
Also can you double check your build costs formula? Some of the build costs aren't scaling properly when doing a multiple run job. I couldn't accurately test the shopping list feature, but is your app smart enough to know if I add 150 units of a module, that's really 15x 10-run jobs and not a 1x 150-run job?
edit: One other thing that isn't apparent is the total cost per item. Its nice to have this number shown so you can calculate a floor sales price.
edit2: Ok, one more request, have the app default to the best profit decrypter and/or the ability to save the decrypter used for each item type. You already have the ability to set defaults for ships/modules/rigs, but even within ships the same decrypter isn't going to be used for all ship types.
 Thanks for the 100m.
Setting ME for more than one item, fair enough. I'll add it in the next version.
The application just calculates for the number of runs. It doesn't know how many jobs you'll have to do to actually build that number. So if you do 15x 10-run jobs you'll have more waste than my application says for 150 runs.
Total cost per item is indeed not very clear, but you can get close to it by playing with the price of the T2 item. Set it so that there's close to 0 profit, and the price of the T2 item is the total cost. I'll probably add it in the next version though.
Saving the decryptor per item could work, but then there's not much point in having the default options. I'll look into it.
Originally by: Seetesh
Woo excellent stuff, lets all send him isk! :)
Agreed 
Originally by: IronPants
Edited by: IronPants on 07/04/2008 16:42:40
unfortantely it says that invention costs for 6 attempts with a decrpytor costs 995 million isk
(Should be 6*8.5M for decyrptor + 6* ~8M for datacores so 99.5M might be right but 995M is off by 10)
Any clue where to check to verify what went wrong?
The cost that the application shows at the bottom is per invention job. It doesn't show how much multiple invention jobs will cost, unless you mean the shopping list? In which case, could you be more precise on what steps you do to get to the result of 995M?
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IronPants
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.07 21:30:00 -
[9]
Edited by: IronPants on 07/04/2008 21:30:48
The cost that the application shows at the bottom is per invention job. It doesn't show how much multiple invention jobs will cost, unless you mean the shopping list? In which case, could you be more precise on what steps you do to get to the result of 995M?
im at work so cant be exact.
I went to skills and set my skills as appropriate then went to one of the windows where you could go to eve central and load all prices. something like 1080 items ..prices all loaded.
went back to main window.
selected stabber
auto selected vagabond
selected decryptor - forget name (at work)
it reported build cost that was just about on money with my spreadsheet
it said invention cost 995 million
not sure where that 995m comes from ..
I am at work and will play with it more tonight.
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Donde Esta
Squirrel Killers
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:50:00 -
[10]
Hope this hasn't been discussed already, but exactly what number do you use for your eve-central query? Is it game average, a regional average, a system lowest sell, etc?
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Burchov
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:36:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Burchov on 08/04/2008 14:38:21
Originally by: Donde Esta
Hope this hasn't been discussed already, but exactly what number do you use for your eve-central query? Is it game average, a regional average, a system lowest sell, etc?
You can select that yourself when you import the prices.
Edit: And the prices are for the entire universe. It is not possible to limit it to a certain region, though if I have enough time, I'll probably add it so you can limit the imported price to a certain region.
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Invention profit calculator |
pulse1976
Far Edge Outcasts
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:12:00 -
[12]
Has anyone managed to import their character skills via the API? I can't seem to get mine to work!
Don't make me use UPPERCASE! |
Schneiderr
Asgard Schiffswerften
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:56:00 -
[13]
nice app mate, will give it a try and test it a bit in the next days.
api import doesnt work for me btw.
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Burchov
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.04.08 16:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: pulse1976
Has anyone managed to import their character skills via the API? I can't seem to get mine to work!
Hmm, seems to be a little bug indeed. If you create a directory called "API" in inventioncalculator\res, it'll work.
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Invention profit calculator |
Donde Esta
Squirrel Killers
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Posted - 2008.04.08 19:25:00 -
[15]
You can update by a particular region, or even system. Check the developers page on eve-central.
I'm doing that in my tool, that looks suspiciously like yours, although not as polished, and/or complicated :)
Nice job.
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Arous Drephius
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.08 20:02:00 -
[16]
In case you want to run this program under Linux (and can't be bothered to compile it), I can confirm that it works by running it under Wine.
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Sophie Daigneau
Risky Advanced Production Enterprises
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.09 15:50:00 -
[17]
Another feature request: Include the total build time on the shopping list and the items to manufacture page.
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Burchov
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.04.09 20:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Donde Esta
You can update by a particular region, or even system. Check the developers page on eve-central.
I'm doing that in my tool, that looks suspiciously like yours, although not as polished, and/or complicated :)
Nice job.
Thanks, I know it's possible from EVE-Central, so it shouldn't be too hard. It however does require that the application knows all regions and their IDs, and there's the issue of caching. If you select the wrong region, you'll be stuck for 24 hours with the wrong prices.
Originally by: Arous Drephius
In case you want to run this program under Linux (and can't be bothered to compile it), I can confirm that it works by running it under Wine.
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
Another feature request: Include the total build time on the shopping list and the items to manufacture page.
Imo it wouldn't very useful to know, as you can easily build items in parallel, reducing the total build times a lot. I'll add it to the list though, as it isn't a lot of work.
________
Invention profit calculator |
Maxim K
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Posted - 2008.04.09 23:11:00 -
[19]
Nice tool, mate. Takes a couple of minutes to get used to the interface, but otherwise great.
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Skizm
Redemption EnterpriseS
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Posted - 2008.04.10 02:54:00 -
[20]
Couple notes from a nub, might help the guy with the crazy costs, or another nub.
When you download costs from eve-central, I settled with minimum sell. Its not entirely accurate but if you go with average you get thrown off by the lalas who sell a 100k mod for 100m, hoping to influence regional averages.
For invention it also helped to change the price of my data interfaces manually, ie set to 0. Be sure to check the decryptors too, they are updated separately.
To the creator, very nice tool! Ive always been afraid to take too close a look at the actual cost of getting a bpc, this made me do so. Youve put in me in a tough position though, if i raise my prices my corp mates are likely to keel-haul me in a *****ed spacesuit  |
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Maxim K
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Posted - 2008.04.10 07:23:00 -
[21]
Feature suggestion: add information about relevant skills for invention and production (more importantly). This app will change the market, definitely.
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Mercurus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.04.10 13:02:00 -
[22]
Really cool, exactly what I needed - congrat! 
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Burchov
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:33:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Skizm
For invention it also helped to change the price of my data interfaces manually, ie set to 0.
It actually gives a warning when manually changing the price of an interface from 0 to something else, I'll do the same when importing prices for them.
Originally by: Skizm
To the creator, very nice tool! Ive always been afraid to take too close a look at the actual cost of getting a bpc, this made me do so.
The price for BPCs is actually one of the weak points, it does not show the real value of the BPC. Take for example freighters, the program shows that a freighter BPC only costs about 50k-100k, while in reality they cost well over 100m. This should obviously be fixed, but it doesn't have a high priority at the moment.
Originally by: Maxim K
Feature suggestion: add information about relevant skills for invention and production (more importantly).
I'm not too sure if skills to manufacture an item is really relevant for this program. The invention calculator is focused on invention, and not on the manufacturing. I'll add it to the list of things to to nonetheless, so sooner or later I'll implement it.
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Invention profit calculator |
Abinadi
Pandoras Military And Civilian Operations Group
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Posted - 2008.04.10 15:15:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Abinadi on 10/04/2008 15:23:17
Edited by: Abinadi on 10/04/2008 15:16:09
A quick how-to for the first time user...
Extract/Install application.
In the install directory structure go to res directory, create api directory.
Start application
Click Edit -> Settings -> Skill & Implant Tab - enter api info and retreive it! Click OK
Click Edit -> Items
Click Decryptors button (short import first) and import the prices you desire to use (I chose selling average).
Click close on the decryptor screen.
Click the Import from EvE Central for the items (this will take a little bit of time ~1200 item prices to import).
Ok, now you are started... Best of luck. I'm sure I could add more, but thought I'd share my n00b 1st time experience so you don't have to figure out what to do first in this nice application.
Abinadi
PS - check your time for copy of Freighters... if I read it correctly you think it takes 4D to copy a freighter BPO. Which isn't even close. |
Taikun
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.04.11 11:30:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Taikun on 11/04/2008 11:31:30
Burchov,
Your contemporaries in the market forums are selling services/tools like yours for upwards of 500 million per customer.
I personally like your application and consider it better than others, and yes... even my own I have developed for my own purposes.
May I suggest that you consider spinning this off into a more lucrative in game business? Watching the fruits of someones labour rot before going to market is... depressing.
Taikun
A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation. |
Burchov
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.04.11 13:30:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Abinadi
PS - check your time for copy of Freighters... if I read it correctly you think it takes 4D to copy a freighter BPO. Which isn't even close.
Ah yes. That would be my mistake trying to update CCPs data. I set the production limit of the T1 freighters to 10, while I should have set the production limit of the T2 freighters to 10. This indeed means that a single-run freighter BPC takes 4 days, and the program will also allow to create 10-run BPCs, which isn't possible.
Originally by: Taikun
Your contemporaries in the market forums are selling services/tools like yours for upwards of 500 million per customer.
Interesting. I actually did consider asking money for the invention calculator, but I decided against it for several reasons:
1) I (and my corp) have been using it for quite some time before I released it. Making isk with it was never one of my objectives.
2) I don't like to scam people (by asking giant piles of isk for relatively simple calculations). Bad for my wallet? Definately, but see 1)
3) If I would ask money for it, I don't think a whole lot of people would use it, which in my eyes means that the effort I put in is really wasted. If people think it's an awesome program and want to donate some ISK, I certainly won't stop them, but I'm not forcing people to do so.
Thanks for the heads up though, I'll be sending Nyphur a mail to ask how many people were actually stupid enough to pay for that amazingly simple spreadsheet
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Invention profit calculator |
Donde Esta
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Posted - 2008.04.11 14:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Burchov
Thanks, I know it's possible from EVE-Central, so it shouldn't be too hard. It however does require that the application knows all regions and their IDs, and there's the issue of caching. If you select the wrong region, you'll be stuck for 24 hours with the wrong prices.
Try this link: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=246 and get data_misc_csv.zip. Then check out dbo_maPRegions.csv and dbo_mapSolarSystems.csv. You should be able to parse these files at startup, or when needed, and use the ID's within. No need to do any research or hardcode anything into your app. I'm doing the same thing for my tool, and have no problems.
I assume the caching is a requirement enforced on your side of things, not on eve-centrals side, which means you can change it. I think it would be reasonable to cache/requests every 24 hours on a regional or system level. i.e. Jita and Domain have their own separate timers. Most people are only going to want 1-5 different views of the data. I handle the results with different cached files: CachedDataRegionTheCitadel.ini, or CachedDataSystemJita.ini.
Lemme know how it goes!
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Xzavier
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.11 14:48:00 -
[28]
Very nice app, only had 2 small issues with using it so far.
1) For some reason, when I was playing with the settings, the skill lvl's I entered would get cleared, all other settings would remain unchanged though. Not sure if this would be fixed by using the api or not, but just thought I'd mention it.
2) On the left side of the main screen the invention profit values won't update when changing the sell price of the invented item. Only way I could get them to update is by opening the enter items screen then closing it. Not a huge issue, but again I thought I'd mention it.
Other than that it's been great, awesome job. Though, as mentioned above, having the ability to set default decryptor usage by ship class instead of just by ship race would be very useful.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.04.11 16:31:00 -
[29]
Any chance you could change the .rar file so it contains an empty api folder? There's no reason a user should need to add this themselves.
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.04.11 18:07:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Nyphur on 11/04/2008 18:07:05
Originally by: Burchov
2) I don't like to scam people (by asking giant piles of isk for relatively simple calculations).
Careful, Lyrus. You just called me a scammer and I doubt James Lyrus would agree with that accusation. How is James doing, anyway? I haven't spoken to him in months.
If people are willing to pay 500m for a spreadsheet and help with their eve business, there is absolutely nothing wrong with providing it. Three people have purchased spreadsheets from me so far on two separate businesses (one exclusive sale for POS reactions and two non-exclusive sales for T2 component production). None of those customers have had any complaints with their purchase and no dishonesty was intentionally employed to make sales. I find it very hard to believe that anyone could call that a scam with a straight face.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
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