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KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:51:00 - [1] There has been a lot of discussion about this, in general chat etc. But I'd like to bring a sister discussion here, from the point of the Corporations and Alliances that inhabit 0.0 space. Its no secret KIA own a Titan, and we will be getting another couple in the coming months. They are becoming more and more common and a decent sell market, with 1 available most of the time, has sprung up. Having seen just how easy they are to train for, build or purchase and use, I am a firm believer that the the DD part of their capabilities must be removed from the game asap. We are well over 50 Titans now, and that number is accelerating, as people become more adept at building them, the process lines for those with secure space are becoming more efficient, and thus more are arriving, it almost seems weekly now.. And despite that, they aren't dieing. They are too easy to use, too easy to protect (don't get me started on the POS Bubble DD'ing)... it is simple to make a Titan align and warp in sub 15 seconds, and still give it a 10+k DPS tank, even with the basic of officer mods, a full setup which would admittedly cost a lot, could have you warping in 10 seconds and tanking 15k+ dps... Killing a Titan isnt easy enough for the damage they can do, and as the game begins to fill faster and faster with them, I for one am very worried on how this will play out. I remmeber when people argued that something costing 50 billion to build, shouldnt be easy to kill.... well 50 Billion is chump change to the big guys. Would the likes of BoB and Ra/AAA/Goons etc like to see some of their roles removed from the game, or do they see their advantage, which grows every day, over other players too much to give up? Lets be honest, the day of 20 Titans on a battlefield is not far away.. thats 1.5ish million raw damage How long before popping a carrier fleet will be effected by a mass Titan DD? It feels like a race, first team to 30 or so Titans wins Eve... When someone is getting close, can I join your team KIA EVE Home
Koala Bare eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:54:00 - [2] Nothing wrong with titans, plenty people fly dreads, dreads melt titans.
Low Blow Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:56:00 - [3] I can see how experienced with titans you are
darkseed Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:56:00 - [4] Edited by: darkseed on 08/05/2008 10:58:05 Edited by: darkseed on 08/05/2008 10:57:11 Ok getting DD'd sucks sometimes, but what other way of defence does a titan have ? I think with the introduction of Heavy interdictors the titans got nerved enough to a point that they are really easy to hold and easy to kill just by jumping in a few dreads. Oort's titan was killed even when there was a second titan in system (Jabin). I do however want the DD in a hostile pos bubble see adressed. --- Happy user of CAOD cleaner
geno effort GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:57:00 - [5] Edited by: geno effort on 08/05/2008 10:58:24 Titans as such aren't terribly overpowered, it's the stacking of titans and doomsdays that turns subcapital fleets irrelevant. The solution: one doomsday per grid per hour.
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:57:00 - [6] Dreads do indeed melt Titans. But something that can warp in 220km away, DD and warp out 15 seconds later, is pretty hard to tackle. Now multiply that by 2 or 3 Titans doing that together in syncronisation, then they become virtually impossible to tackle. And what about the day when a Dread fleet is melted via DD... is it only then we must look at the problem? AND, i guess my last point on that POV, is they are so easy to replace, you lose one, there's always a way to get another pretty quickly. KIA EVE Home
Anna Valerios Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:57:00 - [7] No. Next stupid post please!
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:58:00 - [8] Originally by: Koala Bare Nothing wrong with titans, plenty people fly dreads, dreads melt titans. No they dont - Gob
ElrondMD The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:59:00 - [9] Titans dont matter, its titans in Cyno Jammed systems that matter. Simple solution. Make a doomsday not work in a jammed system. fixed.
Koala Bare eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:59:00 - [10] Originally by: darkseed Ok getting DD'd sucks sometimes, but what other way of defence does a titan have ? I think with the introduction of Heavy interdictors the titans got nerved enough to a point that they are really easy to kill. I do however want the DD in a hostile pos bubble see adressed. Yup, sitting ducks. On their own they don't have more then the tank. Not solo ships though, heavy dependancy on support, but that is where the fun comes in. Remote repping, spider tanks and all of that make people really think and focus. Not a bad thing tbh. Hostile pos bubble, heh yeah. Probably time to replace password system with standings based control. One thing which does need addressing imo, way more then DD's or multiple ones, is friggin Fighters. Coded as individual ship entries it's just a node killer.

Jonny 101 Art of War Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:00:00 - [11] So you want it changed from the finest anti-blob tool eve has seen to date in to...a command ship with a jump bridge? That's the dumbest idea i've heard in a long while. Tanking -one- titan is easy as pie, tanking two quite rough, 3 now you're in trouble, 4 goodbye. But if people want/can field that...let them build their 0.0 empires, it's up to us if we wish to fight them or not. And as you say, ALL the big players can afford this, do you want to give the dime a douzen alliances a handicap? It's a dog eat dog world out there, and i'd like it to stay that way.
Anna Valerios Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:02:00 - [12] Originally by: ElrondMD Titans dont matter, its titans in Cyno Jammed systems that matter. Simple solution. Make a doomsday not work in a jammed system. fixed. Yes cos we didnt kill Oort with a bs fleet, 3 dreads are on the mail as far as I can see and they warped in as he was in armor.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:03:00 - [13] Originally by: KIAEddZ it is simple to make a Titan align and warp in sub 15 seconds, and still give it a 10+k DPS tank, even with the basic of officer mods, a full setup which would admittedly cost a lot, could have you warping in 10 seconds and tanking 15k+ dps... Lets be honest, the day of 20 Titans on a battlefield is not far away.. thats 1.5ish million raw damage 10+k DPS tank, even with the basic of officer mods, a full setup which would admittedly cost a lot, could have you warping in 10 seconds and tanking 15k+ dps... 1.5ish million raw damage tanking 15k+ dps 1.5ish million raw damage Hey, look - you answered it yourself. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Koala Bare eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:03:00 - [14] Originally by: KIAEddZ Dreads do indeed melt Titans. But something that can warp in 220km away, DD and warp out 15 seconds later, is pretty hard to tackle. Now multiply that by 2 or 3 Titans doing that together in syncronisation, then they become virtually impossible to tackle. And what about the day when a Dread fleet is melted via DD... is it only then we must look at the problem? AND, i guess my last point on that POV, is they are so easy to replace, you lose one, there's always a way to get another pretty quickly. The day there are enough DD's to melt a dread fleet is the day where CCP have come up with strategic weaponry of a next level. Warfare = evolution, and CCP control that :P Look, CCP don't want "Capital Online", that is clear. And it is also clear that human beings are silly when it comes to the sheep factor. Give them a new ship, and they will go for it, en masse. Long ago people were in arms about T2 sniper blobs, then dreads, now titans. It's just one step up at a time. Maybe they'll give us ship to ship missiles from battlestar galactica, maybe we get area effect weaponry, maybe doomsdays will disable warp capability on grid. CCP is on it.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:05:00 - [15] What a horrible whine post Go back a couple of years, exchange titan with BS, or BS with dread and you have same situation. It will balance out. The more titans will get fielded, the more will get destroyed. Only problem is lag - but that has nothing to do with titans. Sure, for the small guys it will become more difficult to fight against titan fleet. So what? It is already difficult to fight against the big guys. And? No one forces you to go against them if you don't have the abilities. Cry me a river. Big fish gets eaten by bigger fish. Or not.
sliver 0xD exiles.	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:05:00 - [16] dd are the most fun in fleet fights :P OMG TITAN RUNZOR !!! :P isnt that fun to hear over voice com :P --- Somebody needs a hug!
Astasia Orian Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:05:00 - [17] Hey it's like one of those really bad general discussion threads only on caod
NOL Waiter Dining in NOL Enterprises.	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:06:00 - [18] Titans per se aren't a problem, it's just that you can stack them on top of each other with a multiplier effect. After 4-5 titans are in a system, you're either a capital pilot or you go play Guitar Hero III or GTA IV. It would be much better if titans kept their doomsday weapon thing and could only fire it every 6 minutes, but doing one tenth of the damage. It would give them a more tactical role- a fly swatter, if you wish, but not an I-Win button.
darkseed Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:07:00 - [19] There is such a thing as battlefield tactics... like not warping in your whole fleet when there's a hostile titan in system that can possible DD you. Keep some save in case u need to kill that titan, or titans that just DD'd your fleet. Adapt or die! --- Happy user of CAOD cleaner
Maule Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:09:00 - [20] just because we have 20 you dont need to whine, and no you cant join.

V'elan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:10:00 - [21] Edited by: V''elan on 08/05/2008 11:11:16 A fun idea for stack nerf that takes from some movies where you see suns exploding etc is to make the dd blast generate a shock wave that propels the ships into high velocity and out of the grid, like getting the biggest bump ever + some damage to go with it. If implemented such that rather than accumulating distance over time it would just warps the ships say 5000 km +- 2000 km in every direction when the blast hits, it would be close to impossible to hit with more than one DD unless you had thousand titans in every nearby grid.
Frobond Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:11:00 - [22] Edited by: Frobond on 08/05/2008 11:16:20 To me the way to fix this is to negate the effects of "nano" mods on a titan. so it cant re-aline to warp out in 15 seconds. Or make it to where it takes say 30 seconds for the titan to "recover" from dding and it cant move during that time when alliances have more then one to me its become more of an issue because you can tank 1 but not 3. i think 1 dd per hour in a system/grid would be more viable. because right now its like a gicantic i win button. and many of the alliances now can even pvp without dding. thats all they want to do anymore is dd a fleet if they cant get there titan in they wont engage.
Rift Scorn Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:11:00 - [23] Edited by: Rift Scorn on 08/05/2008 11:11:42 terrible post is terrible. Titans are fine and your entire 2 weeks in one hardly gives you a leg to stand on when talking about them. They've already been nerfed once and would become nothing more than a glorified fleet jump tool if nerfed anymore. They're still the ultimate anti-blob tool and when one's in the system you NEED to be on your toes at all times or you're dead as a conventional fleet pilot, and if due to said nerfing you don't have a conventional fleet backing you up, you're dead in the water and wide open to support lock down. looking at your cap pilots, how many would it take DDD'ing to kill a cap fleet? it's just not worth it. Use your dreads or conventional fleet to pop them - dumping that many titans on a seiged dread fleet is just total moronicy. Your friendly clone activation expert, free of service to the eve community since '03
Anna Valerios Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:15:00 - [24] Edited by: Anna Valerios on 08/05/2008 11:15:03 Originally by: Frobond To me the way to fix this is to negate the effects of "nano" mods on a titan. so it cant re-aline to warp out in 15 seconds. Or make it to where it takes say 30 seconds for the titan to "recover" from dding and it cant move during that time Best suggestion so far. Nano titans are the only stupid part of titans atm, being able to warp out faster than a battleship is just ***** stupid. Avatar warp time with max skills is 45 seconds, if you cant get a tackle on that then your pretty ** ¼_¼
HellsRazor Caldari Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:19:00 - [25] Edited by: HellsRazor on 08/05/2008 11:20:23 Originally by: Anna Valerios Edited by: Anna Valerios on 08/05/2008 11:15:03 Originally by: Frobond To me the way to fix this is to negate the effects of "nano" mods on a titan. so it cant re-aline to warp out in 15 seconds. Or make it to where it takes say 30 seconds for the titan to "recover" from dding and it cant move during that time Best suggestion so far. Nano titans are the only stupid part of titans atm, being able to warp out faster than a battleship is just ***** stupid. Avatar warp time with max skills is 45 seconds, if you cant get a tackle on that then your pretty ** ¼_¼ corrective measure. NO nano/istab/overdrive on titans. or penalty of say... for every one of those mods -20% damage.
geno effort GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:22:00 - [26] Nanotitans are the least of the worries if all major alliances start stacking 10+ titans on a grid. No tackler can withstand an arbitrary number of concurrent doomsdays. The solution is to nerf doomsday stacking. One doomsday per grid per hour. Let the titan pilots and their support fleets themselves do some tactics and actual fighting for a change.
TWD Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:24:00 - [27] Voting to nerf titans! Remove DD, add a ship that feeds from the power of 10 titans so it can fire a remote super DD to a cyno! Only alliances with 10 or more titans can make us of it, so it remains rare/fair (for a while).
Frobond Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:25:00 - [28] Edited by: Frobond on 08/05/2008 11:26:41 Originally by: geno effort The solution is to nerf doomsday stacking. One doomsday per grid per hour. Let the titan pilots and their support fleets themselves do some tactics and actual fighting for a change. i agree with you here dd stacking is a major issue as well. right now all an alliance has to do is go ok so 60 reds just jumped in ok warp the 3 titans to the gate and dd. it takes the fun factor out of pvp if you ask me Edit: for wording
Aman Sul Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:26:00 - [29] Originally by: KIAEddZ When someone is getting close, can I join your team no
Lee ChanKa Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:27:00 - [30] titans are ok but put ******* cyno jamers down and thet is all..like when you use DD then cyno jamer 2 go down on dunno 1 hour or something...like if some aliance hawe 3 -4 titans loged in sistem which they defending and cyno jamer on..aND they know something about pvp..you know when you will take thet sistem..NEWHER i hate fleet bec of lag and thingy but if they fix little lag..then titans will show what they can realy do they will wipe 500 ppl easly but easly..i agre thet dreds can kill it easly..but like you will nead some tactic 2 hawe like 20 hics on difrent spots in difrent groups etc etc.. anyway till now is PERFECT im waiting in 6 mounts or 1 year when 1 alliance will hawe 20 titan pilots online in 1 sistem..or in 2 years 40 titan pilots..then i will c what will CCP do about thet because game will become stupid and wery boring probably... no ofense on ccp but like think on future 3 4 years if we will hawe it 2 CENT



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