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Anton Marvik AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.06.10 01:00:00 - [271] Edited by: Anton Marvik on 10/06/2008 01:01:44 Originally by: Heartstone I wish the CSM to work. That makes two of us. Originally by: Heartstone I think flaming Jade continutally doesn't help to make things better. If quoting Jade and, ironically, editorializing said quotes is "flaming". Originally by: Heartstone As for being out of control i think half the problem as stated by Cosmo on another thread somewhere is that people don't seem to realise how much control a Chairman should be exerting on a commitee. When you appeal to authority make sure its not someone who "knows Jade personally and don't like to see him insulted." Originally by: Heartstone In any case the chairman's control or lack thereof is still a matter that should have been address by CCP in a properly prepared document rather than left to the first commitee to figure out for themselves. The chairperson is responsible to the playerbase, not just CCP, as are all CSM reps. Originally by: Heartstone I realise many people don't like restrictive rules and in most things neither do I but a commitee without a solid structure and control by a chairperson does not work and I would rather like to see this particualr commitee succeed. The point of the majority of my "insulting" posts was to explain why I and others take issue with Jade's actions during the meeting and since. Perhaps you should try reading them again as you missed the point. In fact, the majority of criticisms directed toward Jade aren't about the rules, or lack there of, but rather his own actions during the meeting and after.
Heartstone Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.10 01:02:00 - [272] Originally by: Erik Amirault That was probably the least threatening threat and the wussiest burn in the history of Eve online. "You mildly irritate me and your presence in a local channel that includes me may cause me to frown a bit" How's that? I really should work on my threats. I knew there was a reason I didn't become a pirate ;) /me really is going to bed now. ---
shuckstar Hauling hogs CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate	Posted - 2008.06.10 01:24:00 - [273] Originally by: Anton Marvik Edited by: Anton Marvik on 10/06/2008 00:30:39 I believe removing Jade from Chair is constructive. I believe it is to the benefit of CSM and many people agree with me. Furthermore, plenty of people are willing to give my words credence, Jade simply doesn't because my position is different from his, fortunately he is in no position to mute me. Thumbs up
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 01:34:00 - [274] Originally by: Heartstone Almost all of it is abrasive comments aimed at Jade with no actual content other than that designed to annoy people. Bull. You will see people give a middle ground when there is a middle ground to give. When Jade lies and refuses to acknowledge the facts of the case he will get called on it. If you are complaining that he is called on it then maybe you should talk to Jade about his habitual lying, ad hominem, strawman, and ignoring of all points which might damage whatever it is he supports. We are long past the point where we can present new evidence and arguments. We have presented them in spades and all that has been done is for Jade to ignore them, lie about them, ad hominem them, and strawman them.
Anton Marvik AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.06.10 01:36:00 - [275] Originally by: Goumindong We are long past the point where we can present new evidence and arguments. We have presented them in spades and all that has been done is for Jade to ignore them, lie about them, ad hominem them, and strawman them. This basically sums it up at this point. I never thought I'd be on Goum's side of an argument but there it is.
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.06.10 01:42:00 - [276] Dearest Goum, When are you going to get around to lengthy and irate derision of Darius for the part he clearly played in this mess? I mean, if you're calling people on their behavior in some apparently non-partisan way and holding them to account for their actions, I assume that's on your agenda also?
Anton Marvik AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.06.10 01:48:00 - [277] Originally by: Kai Zion Dearest Goum, When are you going to get around to lengthy and irate derision of Darius for the part he clearly played in this mess? I mean, if you're calling people on their behavior in some apparently non-partisan way and holding them to account for their actions, I assume that's on your agenda also? Darius muted Ianna, editorialized CSM decisions, then flipped out and said that those criticizing him were part of some conspiracy to destroy the CSM rather than accepting responsibility? Please.
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.06.10 01:53:00 - [278] Dear me. I'm pointing out what appears to be double standards, when Goonswarm members lambast Jade whilst silently letting Darius off the hook for the part he played in this mess. Your counter to this observation is to continue that very behavior? Yeah, well played.
Anton Marvik AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.06.10 01:55:00 - [279] Originally by: Kai Zion I'm pointing out what appears to be double standards, when Goonswarm members lambast Jade whilst silently letting Darius off the hook for the part he played in this mess. What part? You have access to the log. Lets see some quotes. Although you may wish to start your own thread as this one is clearly about Jade's actions (Read the title of the thread).
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.06.10 02:07:00 - [280] You've been doing some selective reading if you don't know what I'm talking about. If you want to see the quotes, then someone in one of these threads compiled a list of them where he was pretty clearly "instigating". Rather than address the problem, however, Goonswarm member/s just dismissed the person as an SF Alt. That's the very same treatment Goum here is complaining to Jade about. You going to admonish your own people for acting in a way you've complained to Jade about, Goum? Or is this just a case of double standards? When I raise the issue myself, it's dismissed once more and labelled "not a real issue" and "anti-goon bias". Again, more double standards here or what? I think I'll leave it there, you seemingly don't have the capacity to meet the issue, and I wasn't even addressing you in the first place. I'll let the man speak for himself.
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 02:08:00 - [281] Edited by: Goumindong on 10/06/2008 02:08:45 Darius's comments have always been towards the actions that the chair has taken to expand its power outside the scope of the CSM document. Are you are saying that it is right and proper to sit by and let the Chairman expand its power so that it can push through partisan agendas? I suppose the meeting would have gone smoother had no one objected to Jades usurpation of power and corruption of the position of chairman by using it as a bludgeon to get what he wanted. But i doubt that the outcome of the process would have been better.
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 20:19:00 - [282] This entire CSM is like a puppet show with Jade dancing around and Darius carefully pulling his strings. It really is quiet amusing. Especially when you get to hear about the emails.
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.10 20:55:00 - [283] Originally by: Dippin Dots I'd like to add that up until I read this thread I was on a trial account, and for some madhouse reason this actually made me want to activate my account. I love it. Welcome to Eve Dippin!
Kis Kecheri School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:03:00 - [284] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 10/06/2008 02:08:45 Darius's comments have always been towards the actions that the chair has taken to expand its power outside the scope of the CSM document. Are you are saying that it is right and proper to sit by and let the Chairman expand its power so that it can push through partisan agendas? I suppose the meeting would have gone smoother had no one objected to Jades usurpation of power and corruption of the position of chairman by using it as a bludgeon to get what he wanted. But i doubt that the outcome of the process would have been better. Way to swallow the cool-aid. Goons and Darius in specific are transparent as air on this forum. Mr. JOHNSON was playing the righteous instigator from the start and especially at the tail end of that meeting. How many times did he bait Jade near the end? Three times at least. The double standards applied in this thread could win a trophy.
Inanna Zuni The Causality Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:04:00 - [285] Originally by: Jade Constantine But on the issue of muting a member of the council after 3 warnings in order to protect the process of a vote - absolutely not. I stand by that decision 100% and would do it again. "3"???? Even you cannot ignore that you only twice purported to silence me when I asked a question, surely? And please do not say it was to "protect" a vote when none were in progress. Really ... IZ My principles
Inanna Zuni The Causality Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:07:00 - [286] SIDEBAR Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kelsin Arithron where did you see this conditionless promise to stand down as Chair if elected? I don't see it anywhere, are you sure about that? It was in one of the live/chats interviews iirc This is actually the very best reason why, no matter that it was very imperfect (especially used in a single-channel format) that a text-chat channel is the best option for meetings; voice recordings suffer from noise, lack of random access, lack of timestamps that all have equal access to, etc. IZ My principles
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:19:00 - [287] Edited by: Goumindong on 10/06/2008 21:20:02 Originally by: Kis Kecheri Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 10/06/2008 02:08:45 Darius's comments have always been towards the actions that the chair has taken to expand its power outside the scope of the CSM document. Are you are saying that it is right and proper to sit by and let the Chairman expand its power so that it can push through partisan agendas? I suppose the meeting would have gone smoother had no one objected to Jades usurpation of power and corruption of the position of chairman by using it as a bludgeon to get what he wanted. But i doubt that the outcome of the process would have been better. Way to swallow the cool-aid. Goons and Darius in specific are transparent as air on this forum. Mr. JOHNSON was playing the righteous instigator from the start and especially at the tail end of that meeting. How many times did he bait Jade near the end? Three times at least. The double standards applied in this thread could win a trophy. I am sorry i must have missed that, can you please point out these baits and why they were unjustified considering Jades prior action and disregard for the legitimacy of the council?(which has already been documented)
Kis Kecheri School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:33:00 - [288] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 10/06/2008 21:20:02 Originally by: Kis Kecheri Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 10/06/2008 02:08:45 Darius's comments have always been towards the actions that the chair has taken to expand its power outside the scope of the CSM document. Are you are saying that it is right and proper to sit by and let the Chairman expand its power so that it can push through partisan agendas? I suppose the meeting would have gone smoother had no one objected to Jades usurpation of power and corruption of the position of chairman by using it as a bludgeon to get what he wanted. But i doubt that the outcome of the process would have been better. Way to swallow the cool-aid. Goons and Darius in specific are transparent as air on this forum. Mr. JOHNSON was playing the righteous instigator from the start and especially at the tail end of that meeting. How many times did he bait Jade near the end? Three times at least. The double standards applied in this thread could win a trophy. I am sorry i must have missed that, can you please point out these baits [ 2008.06.08 21:46:20 ]Darius JOHNSON >Well she DID get two OFFICIAL WARNINGS [ 2008.06.08 21:46:29 ] Darius JOHNSON >Maybe the channel is enforcing RULE! [ 2008.06.08 21:54:29 ]Darius JOHNSON >Well the meeting's not over, so what happened will be included whether you like it or not [ 2008.06.08 21:58:21 ]Darius JOHNSON >Well it's cool, just mute them next time you don't like what they're saying and we'll be cool [ 2008.06.08 22:01:24 ]Darius JOHNSON >So what? Who the hell are you? [ 2008.06.08 22:02:43 ]Darius JOHNSON >Let's just mute everyone and move on Anyone thinking clearly will see that these are emotionally charged baits for Jade to get hooked on and drag the meeting further into a conflict. They add nothing constructive to the meeting or the topic. Go ahead Goumindong, spin away. I'm sure you will find someway to warp this around.
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:47:00 - [289] Originally by: Kis Kecheri [ 2008.06.08 21:46:20 ]Darius JOHNSON >Well she DID get two OFFICIAL WARNINGS [ 2008.06.08 21:46:29 ] Darius JOHNSON >Maybe the channel is enforcing RULE! [ 2008.06.08 21:54:29 ]Darius JOHNSON >Well the meeting's not over, so what happened will be included whether you like it or not [ 2008.06.08 21:58:21 ]Darius JOHNSON >Well it's cool, just mute them next time you don't like what they're saying and we'll be cool [ 2008.06.08 22:01:24 ]Darius JOHNSON >So what? Who the hell are you? [ 2008.06.08 22:02:43 ]Darius JOHNSON >Let's just mute everyone and move on Anyone thinking clearly will see that these are emotionally charged baits for Jade to get hooked on and drag the meeting further into a conflict. They add nothing constructive to the meeting or the topic. Go ahead Goumindong, spin away. I'm sure you will find someway to warp this around. Nothing to spin. One of these comments was not directed at Jade and the rest are quite clearly responses to Jade's unauthorized disenfranchisement of an elected representative. Really the comments are quite tame in comparison to what the situation deserved. Really I don't see why anyone would bring up comments made in RESPONSE to the topic of this thread unless the desire was to deflect from the issue at hand.
The MapMaker	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:50:00 - [290] Originally by: Kis Kecheri [ 2008.06.08 21:46:20 ]Darius JOHNSON >Well she DID get two OFFICIAL WARNINGS [ 2008.06.08 21:46:29 ] Darius JOHNSON >Maybe the channel is enforcing RULE! [ 2008.06.08 21:54:29 ]Darius JOHNSON >Well the meeting's not over, so what happened will be included whether you like it or not [ 2008.06.08 21:58:21 ]Darius JOHNSON >Well it's cool, just mute them next time you don't like what they're saying and we'll be cool [ 2008.06.08 22:01:24 ]Darius JOHNSON >So what? Who the hell are you? [ 2008.06.08 22:02:43 ]Darius JOHNSON >Let's just mute everyone and move on Anyone thinking clearly will see that these are emotionally charged baits for Jade to get hooked on and drag the meeting further into a conflict. They add nothing constructive to the meeting or the topic. Go ahead Goumindong, spin away. I'm sure you will find someway to warp this around. You're quoting Darius opposing Jade's conduct? Multiple CSM members have taken issue with Jade's very controversial actions during that meeting so I don't see how an "emotionally charged" response can be viewed as unreasonable- espectially from the candidate who has been the most active in keeping the current chairman's presumptions of power in check and advocated for equality in the powers of all CSM members.
Kis Kecheri School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:51:00 - [291] Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 10/06/2008 21:53:18 Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Originally by: Kis Kecheri [ 2008.06.08 21:46:20 ]Darius JOHNSON >Well she DID get two OFFICIAL WARNINGS [ 2008.06.08 21:46:29 ] Darius JOHNSON >Maybe the channel is enforcing RULE! [ 2008.06.08 21:54:29 ]Darius JOHNSON >Well the meeting's not over, so what happened will be included whether you like it or not [ 2008.06.08 21:58:21 ]Darius JOHNSON >Well it's cool, just mute them next time you don't like what they're saying and we'll be cool [ 2008.06.08 22:01:24 ]Darius JOHNSON >So what? Who the hell are you? [ 2008.06.08 22:02:43 ]Darius JOHNSON >Let's just mute everyone and move on Anyone thinking clearly will see that these are emotionally charged baits for Jade to get hooked on and drag the meeting further into a conflict. They add nothing constructive to the meeting or the topic. Go ahead Goumindong, spin away. I'm sure you will find someway to warp this around. Nothing to spin. One of these comments was not directed at Jade and the rest are quite clearly responses to Jade's unauthorized disenfranchisement of an elected representative. Really the comments are quite tame in comparison to what the situation deserved. Really I don't see why anyone would bring up comments made in RESPONSE to the topic of this thread unless the desire was to deflect from the issue at hand. How are those "responses" !? Clearly those do not add anything contructive to any topic or the flow of the meeting AT ALL. In addition, qualifying them as "tame" doesn't mitigate the fact of what they are. Flame bait. They are hooks for someone to catch and pull them into an emotionally charged conflict. You can't spin out of that. Those are not "RESPONSES", they can only be categorized as "OUTBURSTS" Quote: You're quoting Darius opposing Jade's conduct? Multiple CSM members have taken issue with Jade's very controversial actions during that meeting so I don't see how an "emotionally charged" response can be viewed as unreasonable- espectially from the candidate who has been the most active in keeping the current chairman's presumptions of power in check and advocated for equality in the powers of all CSM members Sorry, you don't get a free pass to make outbursts to bait the room into even more conflict just because you feel emotionally justified. No meeting needs or requires a "Righteous Instigator" to drag it into the mud.
Arithron Gallente Trade Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:52:00 - [292] You actually. You've stalked these forums for the last three weeks like some kind of morbid vulture picking holes and singing songs of doom and gloom and anytime anybody actually tries to engage with you they get more carping criticism and nit-picking leaving the poor respondent wondering they bothered in the first place. I've tried to explain the situation to you but you still insist on trying to blame and whine and complain about whats been done over the course of three weeks of frenetic struggle to get this show on the road. At this stage Arithron though I'm deeply tempted to tell you where to get off I'm still going to advise my fellow CSM reps to try and reach middle ground with you on these multi-item issues, but I'm going ask you in turn to shelve the pettifoggery for long enough to see we are actually trying to work with you here and do the best we can do. I feel I must reply to such a personal attack, which I feel is totally out of order and not in keeping with your supposedly high standards of societal duties that CSM reprsentatives are supposed to have. How have I stalked the forums? I have brought up issues that affect the players of EVE. I have always been polite, non-personal and non-insulting. Everything I have raised has been backed up via CSM documentation or POSTED forum comments. You clearly have mistaken me for someone else 'singing songs of doom and gloom'! I want the CSM to work...I stood remember, and will be doing so again next time around. Maybe you take players pointing out the guidelines and rules personally? I can't apologise for that, since I have never attacked anyone personally. You don't need to work with me, you need to work FOR me and all the other 220,000 players that you represent. The issue I raised regarding multiple issues as one post and vote affects everyone. If my concern for due process and rules concerns you, again I can't apologise- someone needs to raise these issues and highlight the areas of concern. Take care, Bruce Hansen
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:53:00 - [293] Originally by: Kis Kecheri How are those "responses" !? Clearly those do not add anything contructive to any topic or the flow of the meeting AT ALL. In addition, qualifying them as "tame" doesn't mitigate the fact of what they are. Flame bait. They are hooks for someone to catch and pull them into an emotionally charged conflict. You can't spin out of that. Those are not "RESPONSES", they can only be categorized as "OUTBURSTS" So categorize them as "OUTBURSTS". I won't be losing any sleep over it. I'll instead be concerned about things that matter... such as council members being able to speak.
Kis Kecheri School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:58:00 - [294] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Originally by: Kis Kecheri How are those "responses" !? Clearly those do not add anything contructive to any topic or the flow of the meeting AT ALL. In addition, qualifying them as "tame" doesn't mitigate the fact of what they are. Flame bait. They are hooks for someone to catch and pull them into an emotionally charged conflict. You can't spin out of that. Those are not "RESPONSES", they can only be categorized as "OUTBURSTS" So categorize them as "OUTBURSTS". I won't be losing any sleep over it. I'll instead be concerned about things that matter... such as council members being able to speak. I'm sure you won't. Transparent as glass my friend. The CSM is a delicate boat and everyone is more then happy to grab a rope and pull. The chance to entertain themselves watching it capsize is too compelling.
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 22:00:00 - [295] Originally by: Kis Kecheri How are those "responses" !? Clearly those do not add anything contructive to any topic or the flow of the meeting AT ALL. In addition, qualifying them as "tame" doesn't mitigate the fact of what they are. Flame bait. They are hooks for someone to catch and pull them into an emotionally charged conflict. You can't spin out of that. Those are not "RESPONSES", they can only be categorized as "OUTBURSTS" A man in a crowded theater yells "plural N word, there is a fire". There are many appropriate responses for this. One of which is to run, another of which is to object to the use of offensive language. Neither of these qualify as "furthering the discussion" and all might be considered "outbursts" You are walking down the street, and a man next to you get stabbed. "Holy ****, call the police" is an "outburst", but it is also a clearly an appropriate response. Many times when someone does something outside of the rules, appropriate responses certainly include actions that do not further the discussion. Another example, closer to home. Responses that are /signed with a thumbs up in the Assembly Hall are not discussion, but since the assembly hall is a place where players are to voice their opinion, its an entirely acceptable response.
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 22:06:00 - [296] Originally by: Kis Kecheri I'm sure you won't. Transparent as glass my friend. The CSM is a delicate boat and everyone is more then happy to grab a rope and pull. The chance to entertain themselves watching it capsize is too compelling. Transparent? Try honest. Its actions were deplorable. They will continue to be. I'm not going to deny or act as if that doesn't bother me. It does and it's wrong. v0v if that's a bad thing in your eyes then so be it.
Kis Kecheri School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.10 22:08:00 - [297] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kis Kecheri How are those "responses" !? Clearly those do not add anything contructive to any topic or the flow of the meeting AT ALL. In addition, qualifying them as "tame" doesn't mitigate the fact of what they are. Flame bait. They are hooks for someone to catch and pull them into an emotionally charged conflict. You can't spin out of that. Those are not "RESPONSES", they can only be categorized as "OUTBURSTS" A man in a crowded theater yells "plural N word, there is a fire". There are many appropriate responses for this. One of which is to run, another of which is to object to the use of offensive language. Neither of these qualify as "furthering the discussion" and all might be considered "outbursts" You are walking down the street, and a man next to you get stabbed. "Holy ****, call the police" is an "outburst", but it is also a clearly an appropriate response. Many times when someone does something outside of the rules, appropriate responses certainly include actions that do not further the discussion. Another example, closer to home. Responses that are /signed with a thumbs up in the Assembly Hall are not discussion, but since the assembly hall is a place where players are to voice their opinion, its an entirely acceptable response. Not really interested in comparing apples and oranges Goum. Already had lunch. Again, you can't spin when Darius has admited that those were already Outbursts. All thats left is to downplay them like he is doing now.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 22:12:00 - [298] I'm still having a hard time understanding how Jade can maintain that he is in the right through all of this. Jade do you honestly think that avoiding tricky questions and passing the blame lends credence to your massive walls of words?
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 22:16:00 - [299] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 10/06/2008 22:10:48 Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 10/06/2008 22:10:19 Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 10/06/2008 22:09:25 Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kis Kecheri How are those "responses" !? Clearly those do not add anything contructive to any topic or the flow of the meeting AT ALL. In addition, qualifying them as "tame" doesn't mitigate the fact of what they are. Flame bait. They are hooks for someone to catch and pull them into an emotionally charged conflict. You can't spin out of that. Those are not "RESPONSES", they can only be categorized as "OUTBURSTS" A man in a crowded theater yells "plural N word, there is a fire". There are many appropriate responses for this. One of which is to run, another of which is to object to the use of offensive language. Neither of these qualify as "furthering the discussion" and all might be considered "outbursts" You are walking down the street, and a man next to you get stabbed. "Holy **, call the police" is an "outburst", but it is also a clearly an appropriate response. Many times when someone does something outside of the rules, appropriate responses certainly include actions that do not further the discussion. Another example, closer to home. Responses that are /signed with a thumbs up in the Assembly Hall are not discussion, but since the assembly hall is a place where players are to voice their opinion, its an entirely acceptable response. Not really interested in comparing apples and oranges Goum. Already had lunch. Again, you can't spin when Darius has admited that those were already flaming outbursts. All thats left is to downplay them like he is doing now. Quote:** Transparent? Try honest. Its actions were deplorable. They will continue to be. I'm not going to deny or act as if that doesn't bother me. It does and it's wrong. v0v if that's a bad thing in your eyes then so be it. Again, you act like your comments could solve or sooth something. Those were obviously ment to drag the council into MORE INFIGHTING. It really doesn't matter how emotionally justified you feel you were. Constructive or solutions to problems they were not. It's previously been said that what Darius should really do is act completely submissive and let Jade do whatever the hell he wants .
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 22:19:00 - [300] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Again, you act like your comments could solve or sooth something. Those were obviously ment to drag the council into MORE INFIGHTING. It really doesn't matter how emotionally justified you feel you were. Constructive or solutions to problems they were not. Where did I say that? They were clearly meant to be durogatory to Jade. I never said otherwise. Jade broke the council by disenfranchising an elected representative. I responded in a semi-ugly fashion. Unlike Jade I can accept responsibility for my actions and will say that wasn't very professional. I will also add that the comments wouldn't have occurred if it hadn't broken the council process by bullying yet another council member. I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at here, but I'm not denying anything... I had pushed for this and ALL communications to be completely public. I know when I say something it'll be read by everyone. I have nothing to hide whatsoever.

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