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Connection issues 22nd of June 2008

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Amanda Minipin	Posted - 2008.06.24 01:59:00 - [331] hmmmm... It seems CCP has issues. The lag and DC is OBE/P3 is the same as Jita during peak. But on the same toon elsewhere, there is no lag.
Zermelo Fraenkel	Posted - 2008.06.24 02:08:00 - [332] Originally by: Cyxopyc Edited by: Cyxopyc on 24/06/2008 01:50:49 Originally by: Zermelo Fraenkel Originally by: Cyxopyc ============================================= ============================================= I have a feeling many players posting here may not have noticed but the problem that this thread is all about is now gone. ============================================= ============================================= I was playing this game on trial account before buying into it. During the trial period I had no D/C problems whatsoever. Almost as soon as I paid for my account the D/C problems began. The D/C problems are completely unchanged. The problem may have been resolved for some users but not others. I hate to repeat myself but here it goes. The problem this thread is about is gone. It is gone. Oh yes it is... Go back and read the rest of my post (5 posts up) and begin working on the different problem that you are experiencing which also happens to cause disconnections. I did read your post and have read through many other informative posts on this thread. I am monitoring traffic myself and, while the Windows software you suggest is nice I use Linux based utilities such as tcpdump to get a good look at whats going on with the traffic. I'm a sysadmin by trade. The thread is about the repeated disconnects. There is a network problem, its probably not CCP and now that they have removed limewire from the picture its not that. But there is a problem and it is ongoing. Just because CCP have dealt with limewire doesn't mean the thread is over. Not by a long shot. It doesn't help that the EVE servers are in the UK nor that many ISPs are screwing with network traffic profiling so that they can continue to oversubscribe. People should log when they have the disconnects and where, geographicall they are located, IP addresses and ISP details would help. Accumulate this data and send it to CCP so they can find out which ISP along the route is screwing with the EVE traffic. But if this carries on for a few more days I am going to write this off as a mistake and cancel my account; I just freakin paid for it and now its almost useless... was good during trial period but now its almost unplayable
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.06.24 02:10:00 - [333] Originally by: ForsakenLove Ok so please let me get this straight... I loose my brutix due to connections cutting off(it was so frustrating lost count after 20+ disconnections within the span of an hour I stopped playing), and because it's not CCP's "fault" and in fact Limelight's "fault" I'm more than likely going to be denied reimbursement? Yes It seems like I'm bagging out CCP but I've never even heard of "limelight" before as I live in Australia, as my ISP is OptusNet and there were no problems with My ISP during the connection issues. So what happens now may I ask? I'm all for CCP saying it's not their fault, but if it's not my fault either do I still get a reimbursement or not? Cheers ForsakenLove As I'm going to guess CCP has a Shtload of petitions due to this that they have to responed to. See, this is the problem with your thinking. Since you, most likely, are not one of the people effected by this "issue" you are saying that those of us that are/were need to "find something else to do." However, why the **** should I find something else to do? Personally, I pay $60 a month to play eve online and for the past 5 or 6 days I have not had access to that service. What is more, it took community action to find out anything useful as CCP didn't bother with regular updates, nor something present at the splash screen telling us wtf was up until today. The very least CCP should do is give back ships lost to this issue (I didn't lose any ships btw). In reality, those of us in Asia, Australia, North America, and South America who have been UNABLE to utilize the service we pay for should be getting refunds. I promise you that if my mobile phone service was unavailable for a week, my television service, or my gym was closed my bill would be prorated for lost time. Having said that, I don't expect this from CCP. What I do expect is guys like you to think about it before you just let off a "well you should have been doing something else why your **** was broke. Duh." -K
ShardowRhino Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.06.24 02:21:00 - [334] I remember when my ISP was updating equipment and i didn't have access for a week. Then the week after it would cut out at the worst FKing time possible. Got sick of it and called them up and got a free month out of them. If Timewarner can give me credit for the times that things were screwed, i'd hope ccp would be able to do the same. as for people complaining that people are complaining about being unable to get in game or stay in it is stupid. Sure theres a certain level which makes the complaints sound like a whine. People should try and focus on what they are posting about and give any details they can so the ones responsible to fix things get a clue.
Sensai Loki	Posted - 2008.06.24 02:25:00 - [335] when in danger or in doubt fly in circles scream and shout!!!!!
Mindilator	Posted - 2008.06.24 02:25:00 - [336] Originally by: Mattyx Originally by: Marshall Wellington but I have a father who is a broadcast engineer. Really? What do your other fathers do? lol! One of my fathers used to be a boom operator in the Air Force. He's not my father anymore though. My new father is a schoolteacher, and my original father is a retired journalist. How privileged you must feel to live in a tiny bubble without divorce. ******* idiot.
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.06.24 02:32:00 - [337] Originally by: Mindilator Originally by: Mattyx Originally by: Marshall Wellington but I have a father who is a broadcast engineer. Really? What do your other fathers do? lol! One of my fathers used to be a boom operator in the Air Force. He's not my father anymore though. My new father is a schoolteacher, and my original father is a retired journalist. How privileged you must feel to live in a tiny bubble without divorce. ******* idiot. Hehe... agreed. But in defense of the other guy, I have a father, a step-father, and a former step-father. I don't (and I don't think most people in the United States do either) refer to people my mother has married after my "real" father as anything other than "step-father." This is most likely the cause of confusion. -Karl
Connie Dimeko	Posted - 2008.06.24 02:33:00 - [338] KARL !!! you said it ( as well have lost no ships) BUT i think that those within my circle have surely paid the bill to ccp this month deserve better frankly and maybe i misunderstand but isk reimbursement is a rather simple matter easily proven by the very detailed logs the system provides not only to players but most likely much more detailed to those of you at ccp. franlky my dear i dont give a $%^& who caused the problem that there in fact was a problem is the issue is it not? so at the risk of loosing a large portion of your player will ccp remain silent and take the harsh stand of not refunding in some cases what took MONTHS to gain IF THIS IS THE CASE I QUIT shame on you ccp
Lithia Tsanov	Posted - 2008.06.24 02:38:00 - [339] Hi there, I skipped from page 4 to the current page, and it appears that it would be good for someone to link us to an "Internet 201" primer or educational doc. Everyone seems to have the basics of TCP/IP and providers, but nobody here other than us NEs understands what happens in between. Here's a quick and dirty explanation.... You (consumer) have a provider (Comcast/TWarner/Chello/BT) Your provider has a network that is their responsibility. It covers end-user access (you, the consumer) and probably some hosting (enterprise and business consumers). Your provider has one (probably more) backbone providers. When you connect US to London, it goes from your PC, to your provider, to "some backbone provider", to the London consumer's provider, to their server. In this instance, "some backbone provider" (and there are quite a few of them) has a problem. As a consumer, there is little we can do... however, we can do the following... 1: Alert "our provider" of the problem. Our provider (Comcast/Time Warner/etc) has multiple redundant backbone provider, with assigned affinities. If enouigh support calls come in, they may temporarily switch to an alternate provider, or assist "some backbone provider" in troubleshooting thier issue. 2: Alert the owners of the server you are connecting to (CCP). They, in turn, will contact their provider, and their provider will do the same as in case #1 (either go around "SBP, or assist them in troubleshooting). In many cases, there are multiple backbone providers. Getting them to respond is not easy, since you are not a direct customer of theirs. Companies like Comcast and TCI have a lot more weight with them due to SLAs in their contracts and such. Last but not least, when something like this goes wrong, there are tens of thousands of complaints. Issues are normally resolved quickly. This particular issue (having gone on for several days) seems to be an exception to this. While I agree with CCPs handling of this particular problem, I do not agree with their reimbursement policy or response. During this service degradation, POSs were undefended, ships were lost, even the markets got a bit strange. Eve should probably have some sort of "degraded mode" where certain high-cost actions are not allowed. Logoffs are immediate/unconditional. Steps should also be made to alert customers of the situation. Even a login message or popup would suffice. One DC was "wierd"... 2nd DC was "really out of the ordinary"... After the third DC, I played my marketeer alt for the next 2 days. Have a good one, Frank What is an OTAL?
ElijahsFire	Posted - 2008.06.24 02:38:00 - [340] Hmmm, didn't seem to have this problem till Emprean Age. maybe it's just me...

Camilea	Posted - 2008.06.24 03:06:00 - [341] Zhainus, thank you for posting something about this issue. I find it odd that this started happening right after I loaded he mini patch (and still happened after I removed the patch), but I'm not in your data center. ;-) Good luck fixing it. I'm looking forward to normal play.
TechnoButt	Posted - 2008.06.24 03:14:00 - [342] I have an idea, move your **** to USA. Aren't most of your paying players here anyway?
Fiberton StarFleet Enterprises	Posted - 2008.06.24 03:30:00 - [343] Zermelo Fraenkel, actually your idea of forced traffic shaping could be dead on target. As this game streams data for all intensive purposes a limelight router setup could see it as an " offense stream " .. music movies etc. Although That would have to be a combined issue which could be what this is. For sure Limelight was switching back and forth from a route NYC-london-CCP to NYC-london-amsterdam-london-CCP back and forth for a few days. Now that CCP has closed the route from limelight im getting no more disconnects. Being I was kept off for 3 days a few weeks ago and disconnects have now all gone away. Far as patches, this has nothing todo with it. Some of you since the route change in america via " Beyond the network America inc" pipe from washington DC to Telecity Plc london. Stream seems constant and no packetloss...woot .. bows to CCP :) Your local Deamon
Amonshige Axe Gang	Posted - 2008.06.24 03:54:00 - [344] Edited by: Amonshige on 24/06/2008 03:53:51 Limelight has been the cause of connection drops numerous times in the past, as long ago as late last year/early this when i started playing again. Search the forum for LLC and limelight you'll find old posts. The connection issues I saw could be described as extreme lag as well as disconnects, so perhaps the service provider is responsible for other less consequential lag problems as well. Scrap them? Contract? Hm.
blackwalt	Posted - 2008.06.24 04:02:00 - [345] hey if you really want ccp to do something about this problem, i suggest we all stay off eve for a period of time say any were from 5 to 10 hrs , or we all could close are accounts for a week, that might get them to get off thier buts and find a fix to the problem? later blackwalt
costas5	Posted - 2008.06.24 04:17:00 - [346] some one needs to feed the damn hampsters!!!!
Viagra	Posted - 2008.06.24 04:26:00 - [347] Originally by: Avon Kids, stop fighting, please. Email Limelight if you want to moan about it. I'm sure CCP are just as frustrated as us, but trying to hold them responsible for the running of the interwebz is a little unfair. Sunday is Eve's most highly populated day - they really don't need this sort of problem making them look bad ... so cut them some slack over it. These things happen. It isn't our fault .. it isn't their fault. They can't fix it, and neither can you .. and yet they aren't raging at you to get something done, are they? They have raised a ticket, and now they have to just sit tight. /me goes back to reading The Empyrean Age What a load of crap. CCP has been well aware of issues with limewire since at least last fall, as far as I know personally... maybe longer, and have done nothing. Doing nothing to correct teh issue after so long does constitute blame as far as I'm concerned.
Trig Onami Royal Mayham	Posted - 2008.06.24 04:31:00 - [348] I think CCP did the right thing by dropping the ****ZY ONE of THEIR 3 CURRENT ISPs. But remember everyone that right now they're temporarily running the game on only 2 ISPs. So things might not look on the UP AND UP until they find a replacement for "Lemon-light"(hehe that was sweet). I wish them the best in finding a new provider. I give them a few weeks of grace, because they work hard for us. So take your time, CCP, do your best in finding us a suitable backbone, and always READ THE FINE PRINT :P It's great to see that they actually are doing something for us. Out of the goodness of their hearts, they're going far and out of their way to determine why this is happening to their customers at least. And not just playing the blame game, like the "top quality? NOT!" ISPs we ALSO PAY FOR just to connect to EVE, usually do. Now people, shopping for such a HUGE investment takes a good amount of time, and we are just going to have to be patient. I'm not going to throw a stick in the wheel and demand any refund. I wish to help out and pay DOUBLE my sub fee next month to help them secure a new contract in a timely matter. Because if this was Blizzard, they would direct you to their EULA and point to the line that says WE DON'T HAVE TO SERVE YOU, SHOULD IT BE OUT OF OUR HANDS. Keep that in mind folks. CCP, go ahead and take 40 dollars next month.. Find a new ISP. I'm still here. Round of beers for those who decided to drop the Lemon-light. Cheers guys.. I think your game is amazing. Keep up the good work.
Speaker Dead	Posted - 2008.06.24 04:49:00 - [349] Well it does seem to have resolved the porblems i was having, as well as half of my alliance. So it does appear the major issue has been solved. Doesn't mean all the other issues within the WWW have been though. BTW LOL At all the pron lovers using Limewire as the culprit, rather than Limelight....
Slackiekommando The Perfect Storm The Red Skull	Posted - 2008.06.24 05:12:00 - [350] Well if you pertitioned a loss due to getting disconnected: have any of your responces been as such: Posting private CCP communication is not allowed - GM Zhainius i will not repeat what i sent back to him. just curous if anyone has had there ship returned

Slackiekommando The Perfect Storm The Red Skull	Posted - 2008.06.24 05:21:00 - [351] Sorry did not know: Well ppl know what i got back. I hope that someone informs the GM who responded and let him to know that ISP problems occurred and whne more than half your fleet disconnects its not your ISP or your PC. I can accept looses and have in the past but this i think i will take to the highest GM as it really burns my balls.
Ceros X GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.24 05:35:00 - [352] my connection has been rock solid and i'm having more fun in eve than i ever have before, thanks ccp
Ares Helix NunyaBizzness Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.24 05:37:00 - [353] Was workin fine earlier today, now it's bugged again... wtf!
Muskaos	Posted - 2008.06.24 05:40:00 - [354] I have been experiencing disconnects for 9 months, all related to packet loss along the route to Tranquility. I've seen well over 50% packet loss at times, and have lost 2 pimped out Ravens because of it. I play from Japan, and the last 6 hops of my traffic all goes through LimeLight. I have pingplotter up on my second display, so I can log off when I see a packet loss spike starting.
X Ex	Posted - 2008.06.24 05:41:00 - [355] To follow on from Lithia's post (for non-Network geeks about the high level Internet structure), you need to also consider that many ISPs and Backbone providers have "intelligent" devices making routing and prioritisation decisions. These are like having people do the tasks but generally faster to instigate changes and are usually rules based. So, it's possible that any one of the networks in your path may initiate some form of interference (e.g. increase latency on some types of traffic either permanently or as required to service higher priority needs, drop some types of traffic for similar reasons, selectively reroute for damage or cost reasons, and so on). Some of these come into the category of "traffic shaping" which is used to keep the backbones from being overloaded (flattens out saturation peaks and keeps high priority stuff flowing) and others come into the "route around damage" category (such as router outages, saturated links, high cost links, etc). As to whether CCP should provide some compensation or not, I'd say probably they should but they are not under any obligation to under EULA. Welcome to being a business. Since using any network service provider as a company should have Service Level Agreements and Compensation Clauses, they should be able to legitimately apply for real $$$ compensation if they choose. This is to reduce damage to the company which in this case would likely be to pay for the effort of keeping their customers happy. As a note, if they do not have such SLA clauses they would be very unusual and rather remiss. If you work out the potential loss of any reasonable percentage of CCP's customer base at the cheapest subscription rate, their costs could feasibly be quite substantial; especially with respect to customer retention and foregone acquisition (yes, this comment was aimed at the CCP Marketing and Communications teams). Flamers welcome, all I've tried to do is state some business realities rather than attack players/posters or CCP's capabilities.
Cpt Luna	Posted - 2008.06.24 05:43:00 - [356] I have been connected for the last 3 days with no issues: I am in South Korea, so the issue may not be the TQ coding like some are saying, but network connections. Anyhow, no issues here.
tinnsoldier	Posted - 2008.06.24 05:46:00 - [357] as a faithful supporter of ccp (i buy ETC and sell for isk rather than "buy isk for cheap") as well as my 1 year subscription I feel a little shaken by this latest development. I've just lost a BS to lag in mission i had no problem tanking and still had 80% armour. when i lagged i was unable to reconnect for at least 5 minutes and finaly when i did get back in i saw a pod floating in space. in a response to my petition ccp stated that there was no proof that it had anything to do with server side errors and they would not reimburs me. imagine my outrage when i read this today. CCP IS FULL OF CRAP!!!
Ares Helix NunyaBizzness Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.24 05:57:00 - [358] A corp mate lost a nidhoggur cos his conn dropped and he didn't warp away like he shoulda (on a level 5 with no scrammers) CCP refused reimbursement. Hope that's some comfort!
Lt Psyco	Posted - 2008.06.24 06:06:00 - [359] yes well that is good and all, but now EVE has been lagtastic for me in the middle of the US today and it has never been this laggy except when I have more then 50 enemies on screen. now it is always that laggy and it is slightly annoying to take so long to finish what I was able to do in less time. so answer me this please: What happened?
Tarkina Koslix Deep Space Supplies Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.06.24 06:11:00 - [360] Hi all, network problems happen all the time on the internet. That's normal. Noone is to blame for it if it happens, except the carrier has not paided his peering costs to his "neigbours". The only thing ccp can do is to shut the connection down and let the traffic reroute to another carrier. The rest is up to your provider. Some examples what could be wrong : - the core router of a network has a heating problem and the cpu on the networkinterfacecards can't work at full speed --> get you a ****load of packetloss for one interface. It is easy to find out and a matter of hours to be relaced. - a switch port inside the carriers network is faulty - the backplane of a switch can't handle the bandwidth anymore ( i.e. heating problems ) this is not easy to find out, can take days to hunt it down, as the switch does not have always full traffic going throu him, which makes it hard to find it. Replace takes from "in the hour" to 2 days if there no a backup unit in place. Worst case: "a" carrier doesn't like the peering contracts he made with the neigbouring isps or "he" thinks his partners are trying to send more and more traffic throu him and enables traffic shaping for the abusing network. This is no joke, it happen more often than you think. The shaping looks like a normal peering problem if you do a traceroute, as not all pakets get throu the peering point. If you have the option to do tracroutes from both directions, you can find the peering point in question. What you not see is, which isp causes it and if it accidently or not. Suggestion to CCP : I would like to have the opportunity to do traceroute's back to my dial-in provider from the cluster to see where the problem is so that i can reroute my traffic ( i'm lucky and can do it ;) ) . I believe a lot of people would like to have that option on the website. It's a very very simple website. All you have to do is to print a DATE and the output of Matt's Traceroute ( mtr ) to the $REMOTE_ADDR the webserver gives you. I would wonder if it takes longer than 10 minutes to build such a page. There is no risk involved as the script doesn't need input. Thanks :)



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