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Anything
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:44:00 -
[151]
 Originally by: Oveur
We thought about banning cloaks in Empire space, but decided that would be much to drastic. We have an alternative fix, but that would take far more programming meaning a delayed patch, resulting in far more exploit cases since it's left out in the opne, and messing with large systems that I don't want to touch in this patch.
If you're totally set on slapping on this rather drastic quick fix to cover an exploit, I think what most people want to hear is that you *will* do the alternative fix for the next patch so that you can fix the problem and then un-nerf the cloaking device. |
Anything
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:44:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Oveur
We thought about banning cloaks in Empire space, but decided that would be much to drastic. We have an alternative fix, but that would take far more programming meaning a delayed patch, resulting in far more exploit cases since it's left out in the opne, and messing with large systems that I don't want to touch in this patch.
If you're totally set on slapping on this rather drastic quick fix to cover an exploit, I think what most people want to hear is that you *will* do the alternative fix for the next patch so that you can fix the problem and then un-nerf the cloaking device. |
bUBbLeS
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:44:00 -
[153]
so let me get this right
u put a new toy in
some one exploits it somehow
then u nerf em to be useless...cause u havnt got the time/inclination to fix em?
wouldnt it just be better to disable em until you DO fix em?
<sigh>
sux to be CCP i guess
Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
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bUBbLeS
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:44:00 -
[154]
so let me get this right
u put a new toy in
some one exploits it somehow
then u nerf em to be useless...cause u havnt got the time/inclination to fix em?
wouldnt it just be better to disable em until you DO fix em?
<sigh>
sux to be CCP i guess
Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
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Neorocke
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:47:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Neorocke on 02/07/2004 15:49:27
completely true, why not just disable them as a whole then, then fix the problem. That would make everyone happier than just nerfing them useless untill you get around to fixing them.
Im sorry if this is causing a headache, but this has to be said, the game users have to have a voice somehow to limit the amount of hotnerfs that happen.
*i DO NOT need to bring up the hotnerf to the gun accuracies and tracking speeds (oh wait i just did)*
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Neorocke
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:47:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Neorocke on 02/07/2004 15:49:27
completely true, why not just disable them as a whole then, then fix the problem. That would make everyone happier than just nerfing them useless untill you get around to fixing them.
Im sorry if this is causing a headache, but this has to be said, the game users have to have a voice somehow to limit the amount of hotnerfs that happen.
*i DO NOT need to bring up the hotnerf to the gun accuracies and tracking speeds (oh wait i just did)*
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Sigarni
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:47:00 -
[157]
Who cares about Ore stealing , cloaking doesnt help that at all. **** that
We're pretty clear its an issue if you fly near someone who is using Smartbombs, THEM not YOU and they hit you and Concord owns then
How can you simply ignore the entire RP aspect mentioned. No Police force would allow you to move around their controlled area cloaked/undectable.
Think outside the box instead of merely doing kneejerk retarded fixes
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Sigarni
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:47:00 -
[158]
Who cares about Ore stealing , cloaking doesnt help that at all. **** that
We're pretty clear its an issue if you fly near someone who is using Smartbombs, THEM not YOU and they hit you and Concord owns then
How can you simply ignore the entire RP aspect mentioned. No Police force would allow you to move around their controlled area cloaked/undectable.
Think outside the box instead of merely doing kneejerk retarded fixes
|
Oveur
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:48:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Neorocke
Wow, so much for listening to feedback from players :(. No one here is asking to know the exploit. We are merely stating the fact that 10km to hot fix the cloak exploit, which most upstanding users wouldnt even touch, is just turning the table on cloaks.
This module is completely new to eve, and isnt even completely released into the game, Im sure you have the name of the people that are ... exploiting the exploits... why not punish them, instead of punishing everyone else witht the nerf to the cloak.
If you know me, you would know I listen very much to feedback of the players, I base my decisions on them, I work for them.
Do you think I take pleasure in this? Don't you think I knew I would have to reply to threads like this when I took the decision to do this?
It's sometimes necessary to do things you don't like. Whether some player would never exploit it, there are always some that will.
Like I said earlier, there is another long term solution, this one plugs a hole. This is also still in testing, so I might be persuaded to lower it to 7K or so, but not less.
_____________________________
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
Oveur
|
Posted - 2004.07.02 15:48:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Neorocke
Wow, so much for listening to feedback from players :(. No one here is asking to know the exploit. We are merely stating the fact that 10km to hot fix the cloak exploit, which most upstanding users wouldnt even touch, is just turning the table on cloaks.
This module is completely new to eve, and isnt even completely released into the game, Im sure you have the name of the people that are ... exploiting the exploits... why not punish them, instead of punishing everyone else witht the nerf to the cloak.
If you know me, you would know I listen very much to feedback of the players, I base my decisions on them, I work for them.
Do you think I take pleasure in this? Don't you think I knew I would have to reply to threads like this when I took the decision to do this?
It's sometimes necessary to do things you don't like. Whether some player would never exploit it, there are always some that will.
Like I said earlier, there is another long term solution, this one plugs a hole. This is also still in testing, so I might be persuaded to lower it to 7K or so, but not less.
_____________________________
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
Neorocke
|
Posted - 2004.07.02 15:49:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Neorocke on 02/07/2004 15:51:35
ok, but then what about the npcs that approach the cloaked vessel within 7km?
*when you are already 15km from them, and they keep following you...*
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Neorocke
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:49:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Neorocke on 02/07/2004 15:51:35
ok, but then what about the npcs that approach the cloaked vessel within 7km?
*when you are already 15km from them, and they keep following you...*
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Zak Kingsman
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:49:00 -
[163]
As far as I'm concerned that's not a fix, but a workaround, and a poor one. People shouldn't be using smartbombs in empire anyway but even if they do they shouldn't have to worry about something they can't see, something they can yes, but not something they can't. I don't see a lot of people in empire using smartbombs, just because it is so random. Anyone exploiting this fact however should be dealt w/ administratively until a PROPER fix can be implimented. You're fixing an exploit that will affect a minute percentage of the playerbase with a "fix" (again its a poor workaround) that will affect a much larger number. Please just warn, then temp ban, then perm ban anyone who keeps using exploits. That's the correct temporary solution until you can get the true fix in.
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Zak Kingsman
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:49:00 -
[164]
As far as I'm concerned that's not a fix, but a workaround, and a poor one. People shouldn't be using smartbombs in empire anyway but even if they do they shouldn't have to worry about something they can't see, something they can yes, but not something they can't. I don't see a lot of people in empire using smartbombs, just because it is so random. Anyone exploiting this fact however should be dealt w/ administratively until a PROPER fix can be implimented. You're fixing an exploit that will affect a minute percentage of the playerbase with a "fix" (again its a poor workaround) that will affect a much larger number. Please just warn, then temp ban, then perm ban anyone who keeps using exploits. That's the correct temporary solution until you can get the true fix in.
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Oveur
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:54:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Sigarni
Who cares about Ore stealing , cloaking doesnt help that at all. **** that
We're pretty clear its an issue if you fly near someone who is using Smartbombs, THEM not YOU and they hit you and Concord owns then
How can you simply ignore the entire RP aspect mentioned. No Police force would allow you to move around their controlled area cloaked/undectable.
Think outside the box instead of merely doing kneejerk retarded fixes
And you honestly believe that banning cloaks in Empire would cause less uproar than this change? I didn't go that way because I thought it would create riots.
_____________________________
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
Oveur
|
Posted - 2004.07.02 15:54:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Sigarni
Who cares about Ore stealing , cloaking doesnt help that at all. **** that
We're pretty clear its an issue if you fly near someone who is using Smartbombs, THEM not YOU and they hit you and Concord owns then
How can you simply ignore the entire RP aspect mentioned. No Police force would allow you to move around their controlled area cloaked/undectable.
Think outside the box instead of merely doing kneejerk retarded fixes
And you honestly believe that banning cloaks in Empire would cause less uproar than this change? I didn't go that way because I thought it would create riots.
_____________________________
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
Chith
|
Posted - 2004.07.02 15:56:00 -
[167]
It would appear to me that this is a stopgap measure that will be changed once the alluded-to longterm fix involving actual code and perhaps a system change is in place. Is this correct?
If this is indeed the case, it seems fairly reasonable to me -- as long as that longterm solution does actuall go in with a respectable amount of expediency.
---
The Tarsis Shriners |
Chith
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:56:00 -
[168]
It would appear to me that this is a stopgap measure that will be changed once the alluded-to longterm fix involving actual code and perhaps a system change is in place. Is this correct?
If this is indeed the case, it seems fairly reasonable to me -- as long as that longterm solution does actuall go in with a respectable amount of expediency.
---
The Tarsis Shriners |
Neorocke
|
Posted - 2004.07.02 15:56:00 -
[169]
Well, who needs to cloak in .5 + security status systems? other than the people who are at war with each other...
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Neorocke
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:56:00 -
[170]
Well, who needs to cloak in .5 + security status systems? other than the people who are at war with each other...
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Oveur
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:56:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Neorocke
Edited by: Neorocke on 02/07/2004 15:49:27
completely true, why not just disable them as a whole then, then fix the problem. That would make everyone happier than just nerfing them useless untill you get around to fixing them.
Im sorry if this is causing a headache, but this has to be said, the game users have to have a voice somehow to limit the amount of hotnerfs that happen.
*i DO NOT need to bring up the hotnerf to the gun accuracies and tracking speeds (oh wait i just did)*
If you call increasing the uncloak range an kneejerk, I don't know what removing them altogether would be 
_____________________________
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
Oveur
|
Posted - 2004.07.02 15:56:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Neorocke
Edited by: Neorocke on 02/07/2004 15:49:27
completely true, why not just disable them as a whole then, then fix the problem. That would make everyone happier than just nerfing them useless untill you get around to fixing them.
Im sorry if this is causing a headache, but this has to be said, the game users have to have a voice somehow to limit the amount of hotnerfs that happen.
*i DO NOT need to bring up the hotnerf to the gun accuracies and tracking speeds (oh wait i just did)*
If you call increasing the uncloak range an kneejerk, I don't know what removing them altogether would be
_____________________________
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2004.07.02 15:57:00 -
[173]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 02/07/2004 16:04:54
Oveur just do your thing. But please promise that cloaking devices will not stay as useless as they will be after this.
I trained an entire month for these babies and I'll probably train another 2 months for backup skills to maximise my efficiency as a CO pilot. I just want you to promise that these 3 months training (worth 30+ euros) aren't wasted because of some stupid exploit.
It's not like as if we're talking about some random module here. This one takes MONTHS to train for and that training time is payed with real money so people are expecting them to at least not be utterly useless, no matter what kind of exploit might be attached to them.
Mai's Idealog |
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2004.07.02 15:57:00 -
[174]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 02/07/2004 16:04:54
Oveur just do your thing. But please promise that cloaking devices will not stay as useless as they will be after this.
I trained an entire month for these babies and I'll probably train another 2 months for backup skills to maximise my efficiency as a CO pilot. I just want you to promise that these 3 months training (worth 30+ euros) aren't wasted because of some stupid exploit.
It's not like as if we're talking about some random module here. This one takes MONTHS to train for and that training time is payed with real money so people are expecting them to at least not be utterly useless, no matter what kind of exploit might be attached to them.
Mai's Idealog |
rowbin hod
|
Posted - 2004.07.02 15:57:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Neorocke
Wow, so much for listening to feedback from players :(. No one here is asking to know the exploit. We are merely stating the fact that 10km to hot fix the cloak exploit, which most upstanding users wouldnt even touch, is just turning the table on cloaks.
This module is completely new to eve, and isnt even completely released into the game, Im sure you have the name of the people that are ... exploiting the exploits... why not punish them, instead of punishing everyone else witht the nerf to the cloak.
If you know me, you would know I listen very much to feedback of the players, I base my decisions on them, I work for them.
Do you think I take pleasure in this? Don't you think I knew I would have to reply to threads like this when I took the decision to do this?
It's sometimes necessary to do things you don't like. Whether some player would never exploit it, there are always some that will.
Like I said earlier, there is another long term solution, this one plugs a hole. This is also still in testing, so I might be persuaded to lower it to 7K or so, but not less.
Oveur
This seems sensible to me. Once the exploit has been fixed, will the distance be reduced to the original lower distance? I think a lot of people would be more forgiving if they knew this was just temporary until more extensive work can be done on it.
---
"Due to the European lard shortage, we are currently unable to supply this product." |
rowbin hod
|
Posted - 2004.07.02 15:57:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Neorocke
Wow, so much for listening to feedback from players :(. No one here is asking to know the exploit. We are merely stating the fact that 10km to hot fix the cloak exploit, which most upstanding users wouldnt even touch, is just turning the table on cloaks.
This module is completely new to eve, and isnt even completely released into the game, Im sure you have the name of the people that are ... exploiting the exploits... why not punish them, instead of punishing everyone else witht the nerf to the cloak.
If you know me, you would know I listen very much to feedback of the players, I base my decisions on them, I work for them.
Do you think I take pleasure in this? Don't you think I knew I would have to reply to threads like this when I took the decision to do this?
It's sometimes necessary to do things you don't like. Whether some player would never exploit it, there are always some that will.
Like I said earlier, there is another long term solution, this one plugs a hole. This is also still in testing, so I might be persuaded to lower it to 7K or so, but not less.
Oveur
This seems sensible to me. Once the exploit has been fixed, will the distance be reduced to the original lower distance? I think a lot of people would be more forgiving if they knew this was just temporary until more extensive work can be done on it.
---
"Due to the European lard shortage, we are currently unable to supply this product." |
Neorocke
|
Posted - 2004.07.02 15:59:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Neorocke on 02/07/2004 16:00:59
im sorry Oveur i dont like being teased to use a module (cloak) that doesnt work properly. If the distance is set to 10km, then i would have just wasted alot of money. Im not complaining about kneejerk responses, im saying i would rather have them completely disabled *than* rendered useless.
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Neorocke
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Posted - 2004.07.02 15:59:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Neorocke on 02/07/2004 16:00:59
im sorry Oveur i dont like being teased to use a module (cloak) that doesnt work properly. If the distance is set to 10km, then i would have just wasted alot of money. Im not complaining about kneejerk responses, im saying i would rather have them completely disabled *than* rendered useless.
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Neorocke
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Posted - 2004.07.02 16:03:00 -
[179]
Originally by: rowbin hod
Oveur
This seems sensible to me. Once the exploit has been fixed, will the distance be reduced to the original lower distance? I think a lot of people would be more forgiving if they knew this was just temporary until more extensive work can be done on it.
I think people realize that it will be a temporary fix, but do you realize how big of a nerf that will be. It effectively renders the cloaking devices useless untill they are fixed anyway.
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Neorocke
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Posted - 2004.07.02 16:03:00 -
[180]
Originally by: rowbin hod
Oveur
This seems sensible to me. Once the exploit has been fixed, will the distance be reduced to the original lower distance? I think a lot of people would be more forgiving if they knew this was just temporary until more extensive work can be done on it.
I think people realize that it will be a temporary fix, but do you realize how big of a nerf that will be. It effectively renders the cloaking devices useless untill they are fixed anyway.
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