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Nerf the CLOAKS

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fairimear	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:04:00 - [181] Edited by: fairimear on 02/07/2004 16:07:23 U are not listening and if its that bad then it should have been anticipated and sorted way b4 cloak release. And secondly is 10km realy the minimum range to stop this what ever it is. I think this will also tern into a isue about the dev team listening to players if this 10km is not temp. u say u do but u cant be if ur still going to implement a 10km nerf after all the posts here. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
fairimear	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:04:00 - [182] Edited by: fairimear on 02/07/2004 16:07:23 U are not listening and if its that bad then it should have been anticipated and sorted way b4 cloak release. And secondly is 10km realy the minimum range to stop this what ever it is. I think this will also tern into a isue about the dev team listening to players if this 10km is not temp. u say u do but u cant be if ur still going to implement a 10km nerf after all the posts here. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
Flatliner	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:08:00 - [183] Once again we see things not properly tested thrown onto Tranquility, only to be nerfed to fix exploits. CCP why are you letting poor testing/quality always get in the way of the players gaming time and enjoyment. You must know by now this is going to cause a lot of problems with people who are getting sick and tired of the never ending changes/nerfs, come on, get your act together. Flatliner.
Flatliner	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:08:00 - [184] Once again we see things not properly tested thrown onto Tranquility, only to be nerfed to fix exploits. CCP why are you letting poor testing/quality always get in the way of the players gaming time and enjoyment. You must know by now this is going to cause a lot of problems with people who are getting sick and tired of the never ending changes/nerfs, come on, get your act together. Flatliner.
Jim Bond	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:09:00 - [185] Originally by: bUBbLeS so let me get this right u put a new toy in some one exploits it somehow then u nerf em to be useless...cause u havnt got the time/inclination to fix em? wouldnt it just be better to disable em until you DO fix em? <sigh> sux to be CCP i guess Agreed... For those who say disable cloaks in empire, some corps do have empire wars so cloaks have to be useable in empire. Might as well disable guns and smartbombs in empire space while youre at it. I think the best course of action would be to take cloaks out of the game, fix them properly and re-release them at a later date. Its not the 1st time this has been done, scrapmetal skill for example. The only exploit i can think of is if i was to move next to a person in another corp while cloaked and a corp member of mine shoots missiles at the person and uses smartbomb which in turn hits me, causing concord or sentries to kill the ship. The cloacked ship moves that slow, this is a virtual impossibility, to get close enough before the ship warps away.
Jim Bond	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:09:00 - [186] Originally by: bUBbLeS so let me get this right u put a new toy in some one exploits it somehow then u nerf em to be useless...cause u havnt got the time/inclination to fix em? wouldnt it just be better to disable em until you DO fix em? <sigh> sux to be CCP i guess Agreed... For those who say disable cloaks in empire, some corps do have empire wars so cloaks have to be useable in empire. Might as well disable guns and smartbombs in empire space while youre at it. I think the best course of action would be to take cloaks out of the game, fix them properly and re-release them at a later date. Its not the 1st time this has been done, scrapmetal skill for example. The only exploit i can think of is if i was to move next to a person in another corp while cloaked and a corp member of mine shoots missiles at the person and uses smartbomb which in turn hits me, causing concord or sentries to kill the ship. The cloacked ship moves that slow, this is a virtual impossibility, to get close enough before the ship warps away.
G8torSkull	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:10:00 - [187] i feel for all those peeps who spent 100 million isk to buy a cloak device. I am truly sorry yall got screwed
G8torSkull	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:10:00 - [188] i feel for all those peeps who spent 100 million isk to buy a cloak device. I am truly sorry yall got screwed
Neorocke	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:12:00 - [189] Edited by: Neorocke on 02/07/2004 16:14:36 like oveur said, it has nothing to do with smartbombs. Plus, if you were truly at war with them, if the smartbomb hit you, there wouldnt be any consequences. i paid around 90 mill for the device and the skill i dont believe i got screwed.
Neorocke	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:12:00 - [190] Edited by: Neorocke on 02/07/2004 16:14:36 like oveur said, it has nothing to do with smartbombs. Plus, if you were truly at war with them, if the smartbomb hit you, there wouldnt be any consequences. i paid around 90 mill for the device and the skill i dont believe i got screwed.
fairimear	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:14:00 - [191] If this is a docking problem, make it so u decloak around station in 0.1 at 10km, this would let u scout player stations in 0.0 to ne range and lets u stay hiden at ne range to other ships. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
fairimear	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:14:00 - [192] If this is a docking problem, make it so u decloak around station in 0.1 at 10km, this would let u scout player stations in 0.0 to ne range and lets u stay hiden at ne range to other ships. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
Hakera	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:18:00 - [193] Oveur, Please re-consider this nerf. The only reason stated so far for this change is people getting others concordonised by moving into sb range of someone blasting rats. OK - that maybe a very minor problem/exploit, but this hack fix doesn't do anything but ruin the fun of cloaking for everyone else. Covert Ops/Cloaking has two main functions imo, one is a close range warp in for your fleet into anothers, the others is bypassing blockades. Especially the latter, now that will be impossible, blockades will just deploy cans and drones now to make sure that cloaked ships are detected and have no chance of making the jump zone or being an effective spy. But that is ok, we dont need cloaking as long as those sb using players in empire space are safe from exploits.... A much better change would be to program concord to ignore cloaked ship damage and warn the user that a cloaked ship is nearby/in range of their area effect weapons BUT NOT decloak them unless they come within 1k. That is a fix, the 10k nerf is an overkill hack and a game spoiler for a good feature. Dont ruin one of the few new features being added into eve before shiva please. I was looking forward to covert ops and spent 6mill on the skills, dont make me regret that decision! Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Hakera	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:18:00 - [194] Oveur, Please re-consider this nerf. The only reason stated so far for this change is people getting others concordonised by moving into sb range of someone blasting rats. OK - that maybe a very minor problem/exploit, but this hack fix doesn't do anything but ruin the fun of cloaking for everyone else. Covert Ops/Cloaking has two main functions imo, one is a close range warp in for your fleet into anothers, the others is bypassing blockades. Especially the latter, now that will be impossible, blockades will just deploy cans and drones now to make sure that cloaked ships are detected and have no chance of making the jump zone or being an effective spy. But that is ok, we dont need cloaking as long as those sb using players in empire space are safe from exploits.... A much better change would be to program concord to ignore cloaked ship damage and warn the user that a cloaked ship is nearby/in range of their area effect weapons BUT NOT decloak them unless they come within 1k. That is a fix, the 10k nerf is an overkill hack and a game spoiler for a good feature. Dont ruin one of the few new features being added into eve before shiva please. I was looking forward to covert ops and spent 6mill on the skills, dont make me regret that decision! Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
fairimear	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:24:00 - [195] 96 posts sofar and all against this nerf, not even stickys that have been up for a week or more have this many, does that not tell u how unpopular ur gona be. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
fairimear	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:24:00 - [196] 96 posts sofar and all against this nerf, not even stickys that have been up for a week or more have this many, does that not tell u how unpopular ur gona be. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
Oveur	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:28:00 - [197] Originally by: Hakera Oveur, Please re-consider this nerf. The only reason stated so far for this change is people getting others concordonised by moving into sb range of someone blasting rats. OK - that maybe a very minor problem/exploit, but this hack fix doesn't do anything but ruin the fun of cloaking for everyone else. Covert Ops/Cloaking has two main functions imo, one is a close range warp in for your fleet into anothers, the others is bypassing blockades. Especially the latter, now that will be impossible, blockades will just deploy cans and drones now to make sure that cloaked ships are detected and have no chance of making the jump zone or being an effective spy. But that is ok, we dont need cloaking as long as those sb using players in empire space are safe from exploits.... A much better change would be to program concord to ignore cloaked ship damage and warn the user that a cloaked ship is nearby/in range of their area effect weapons BUT NOT decloak them unless they come within 1k. That is a fix, the 10k nerf is an overkill hack and a game spoiler for a good feature. Dont ruin one of the few new features being added into eve before shiva please. I was looking forward to covert ops and spent 6mill on the skills, dont make me regret that decision! You won't. But these were the choices: - Hotfix the exploit with this patch by changing almost nothing codewise and do the long term solution later - Do the long term solution, delaying the patch, having the exploit in the open until that and not able to deploy all the fixes - Banning cloaks in Empire, causing an uproar - Banning smartbombs (duh) For me the choice was obvious and it had to be done. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Oveur	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:28:00 - [198] Originally by: Hakera Oveur, Please re-consider this nerf. The only reason stated so far for this change is people getting others concordonised by moving into sb range of someone blasting rats. OK - that maybe a very minor problem/exploit, but this hack fix doesn't do anything but ruin the fun of cloaking for everyone else. Covert Ops/Cloaking has two main functions imo, one is a close range warp in for your fleet into anothers, the others is bypassing blockades. Especially the latter, now that will be impossible, blockades will just deploy cans and drones now to make sure that cloaked ships are detected and have no chance of making the jump zone or being an effective spy. But that is ok, we dont need cloaking as long as those sb using players in empire space are safe from exploits.... A much better change would be to program concord to ignore cloaked ship damage and warn the user that a cloaked ship is nearby/in range of their area effect weapons BUT NOT decloak them unless they come within 1k. That is a fix, the 10k nerf is an overkill hack and a game spoiler for a good feature. Dont ruin one of the few new features being added into eve before shiva please. I was looking forward to covert ops and spent 6mill on the skills, dont make me regret that decision! You won't. But these were the choices: - Hotfix the exploit with this patch by changing almost nothing codewise and do the long term solution later - Do the long term solution, delaying the patch, having the exploit in the open until that and not able to deploy all the fixes - Banning cloaks in Empire, causing an uproar - Banning smartbombs (duh) For me the choice was obvious and it had to be done. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Attrael	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:31:00 - [199] Quote: does that not tell u how unpopular ur gona be Saddly, doing the right thing is seldom the most popular thing. We'll all have to just wait and see what happens I guess. Perhaps there really is something greater at stake here and someday, in the future, the nerf will be recognized as the best option available. But again, we'll have to wait and see.
Attrael	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:31:00 - [200] Quote: does that not tell u how unpopular ur gona be Saddly, doing the right thing is seldom the most popular thing. We'll all have to just wait and see what happens I guess. Perhaps there really is something greater at stake here and someday, in the future, the nerf will be recognized as the best option available. But again, we'll have to wait and see.
fairimear	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:33:00 - [201] That list only shows u cant be assed to get off ur ass and get it sorted with no 10km crap. And as ur being so idiotic and not listening is it gona be 3months or more b4 u get round to solving this with no 10km penalty. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
fairimear	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:33:00 - [202] That list only shows u cant be assed to get off ur ass and get it sorted with no 10km crap. And as ur being so idiotic and not listening is it gona be 3months or more b4 u get round to solving this with no 10km penalty. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
Selak Zorander	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:40:00 - [203] fairimear, which would you rather have, 2,3,4 or more weeks of the game in its current state while they fix cloak without the 10km range thing, or get the game running more stable and having many more issues solved while at the same time temporarily making the cloaking device "useless" in your oppinion. My I would say "hey lets fix these xx problems and eliminate this 1 problem with a quick fix that we will remove after we take the time to fix it right" instead of "hey lets fix this ONE problem, delay the patch and oh only fix a few more of the stability and various other problems because of the time we need to fix this one, while at the same time causing a large number of exploit petition because of this known exploit we are trying to fix though we could stop them with a very simple 2 minute fix that can be easily removed later." Do the math on that one a bit. Would you rather have a late patch with one fix out of many, or a ontime patch with many fixes and one nerf to stop an exploit before it can be properly fixed?
Selak Zorander	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:40:00 - [204] fairimear, which would you rather have, 2,3,4 or more weeks of the game in its current state while they fix cloak without the 10km range thing, or get the game running more stable and having many more issues solved while at the same time temporarily making the cloaking device "useless" in your oppinion. My I would say "hey lets fix these xx problems and eliminate this 1 problem with a quick fix that we will remove after we take the time to fix it right" instead of "hey lets fix this ONE problem, delay the patch and oh only fix a few more of the stability and various other problems because of the time we need to fix this one, while at the same time causing a large number of exploit petition because of this known exploit we are trying to fix though we could stop them with a very simple 2 minute fix that can be easily removed later." Do the math on that one a bit. Would you rather have a late patch with one fix out of many, or a ontime patch with many fixes and one nerf to stop an exploit before it can be properly fixed?
fairimear	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:42:00 - [205] Thats the problem after this display of half assed pre release testing on cloak how do we know they will bother. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
fairimear	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:42:00 - [206] Thats the problem after this display of half assed pre release testing on cloak how do we know they will bother. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
Dukath	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:46:00 - [207] I would guess than banning the cloak in empire would cause a much smaller uproar than this 'fix'. With this fix cloaking is useless EVERYWHERE, with the empire ban (lets say .5 or above) only about 5% of the players who would use a cloak are affected. Remember most players who will use a cloaking device, or who actually need it for something else than showing off are NOT in .5 space or above. So please consider this and ban it from .5 or above in stead of the 10km decloak.
Dukath	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:46:00 - [208] I would guess than banning the cloak in empire would cause a much smaller uproar than this 'fix'. With this fix cloaking is useless EVERYWHERE, with the empire ban (lets say .5 or above) only about 5% of the players who would use a cloak are affected. Remember most players who will use a cloaking device, or who actually need it for something else than showing off are NOT in .5 space or above. So please consider this and ban it from .5 or above in stead of the 10km decloak.
fairimear	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:48:00 - [209] No we dont want a ban on cloaks in empire or we should ban ne wepon in empire. we just want a confirmation that this is temp and a date when it will be removed so cloaks work (and a date they will keep to). (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
fairimear	Posted - 2004.07.02 16:48:00 - [210] No we dont want a ban on cloaks in empire or we should ban ne wepon in empire. we just want a confirmation that this is temp and a date when it will be removed so cloaks work (and a date they will keep to). (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.

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