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Thoren Gregson
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:30:00 -
[1]
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Rob Eagle
Invalidation
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:31:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Thoren Gregson
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Mr Deviant
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:32:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Rob Eagle
Originally by: Thoren Gregson
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Zoolman
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:33:00 -
[4]
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:35:00 -
[5]
frosted butts
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Thoren Gregson
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:43:00 -
[6]
*****************************************
It took me a few days in a covert ops following, and scanning them down to see how they where this.. but see it I did. (and I actually had a lot of fun while doing so)
These -10 guys are flying into empire space in PODS. Making safespots in the systems they pray upon. Meeting up with Orcas in these safe spots flown by legit neutral pilots. (alts maybe) and jumping in there suicide T1 gank ships of choice out of the Orca hanger and then flying directly to the belts where they kill any ship they wish so long as it can be killed before Concord kills them. They then fly pods back to the orca in the same system, grab another set of ships and do it again. As of this weekend they now have atleast 2 orcas, one stays in the safe spot while the other goes back and forth between the safe spot and the station. IÆm guessing to pick up more ships and drop them into orca #1
Combined with fully insured tech one ships and no lost of sec status (they are already -10) there is NOTHING for them to lose and everything to gain.
Using this method essentially turns empire space into gank town in the belts and mission pockets so long as the victim can be killed fast enough. (they never fly near the gates or stations)
IÆm not crying foul because we have lost ~950 million in assets, I like that eve is a dangerous place to play. My issue is that:
1 The insurance system is in serous need of overhaul when pirates and suicide gankers can use it to there advantage while at the same time anyone flying in a tech 2 ship can not use it at all.
2 One of the main security mechanics of the game (sec status) is being circumvented/exploited by flying into empire systems in pods and then jumping into a ships brought in by another player. So long as they donÆt go near a gate or station until they jump back out in a pod.
Some may quickly say ônerf Orca ship baysö but that will not stop it. Orcas only make it faster and easier to do. Before the orca it could have been done by neutral players freighting tons of ships into an empire station, making a safe spot and then moving ships from station to safespot by ejecting out of ships in the safe spot over and over.
How to stop this? Step one is to fix insurance as has been suggested in the past, no insurance pay out to concord ship losses. But that wonÆt really stop this alone. A small fleet of tech 1 ships is still a better then even trade off for one (let alone 4) hulks mining together. Figure out a way to allow tech 2 ships to be insured to compensate for loss like tech one ships.
But what is going to stop -10 sec pilots from moving around in empire and then jumping into a ship in a safespot and killing players in empire belts?
Would a consistent Concord presence in all empire belts stop this? I donÆt know, but what I do know is.. this problem is going to become a lot worse as more and more players adopt this practice and I know that, atleast for me and my corp we will have to park all of our mining ships until something changes. None of us can afford 200million losses a night in the blink of an eye.
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Thoren Gregson
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:45:00 -
[7]
For some reason I had to split the post into two. The board would error out when trying to post the whole thing. Guess it's the anti-wall-o-text tech.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:47:00 -
[8]
Intersting exploit and noted as the ops text will surely be zapped by a mod. 
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zeba
Intersting exploit and noted as the ops text will surely be zapped by a mod.
not a exploit.
infact this have been done for years, just not with orcas
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:50:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 01/12/2008 20:51:19
Go kill them?
Sorry, this doesn't sound like an exploit to me really.
1. CONCORD don't Pod.
2. The ORCA pilot isn't an outlaw.
3. They jump into a ship, it takes a moment for CONCORD to arrive. As long as their ship is blown up by CONCORD it's not an exploit, regardless of what they do *before* this happens.
They're -10 ffs. Why didn't you fit a couple guns on your covops and kill their pods at the orca???
(edit: or better yet, bookmark their Orca and fly back in a fit-out battleship and *really* wreck some havoc on the -10s
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Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
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Malcanis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:50:00 -
[11]
I kind of thought something like this would happen with the Orca.
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Mr Deviant
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:51:00 -
[12]
hmm interesting. Very interesting. Now, where is that new orca I bought?
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SharpMango
14th Legion
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:51:00 -
[13]
thx for posting/sharing. clever way for those pirates to make it to hi sec space. would be nice if they got destroyed by concord...
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Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:51:00 -
[14]
And now, a thousand more players will figure out how to do this before CCP fixes it, if ever.
Petitioning under "Exploits" would have been a better option.
Also, -10 pilots are KOS, use your nifty little Cov-ops. scan'em down in their safe spot and oh.. I dunno... Shoot them?
Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down |
Haakelen
Gallente
Fire Mandrill
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:51:00 -
[15]
Not going to comment on the rest of the post (which is p.  i must say), but we need less insurance, not more. There is no reasonable way to provide insurance for T2 ships because their value is not pegged to minerals as much as T1 ships are, but even if there was, T2 stuff is already cheap enough as it is.
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Emalyn Throsar
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zeba
Intersting exploit and noted as the ops text will surely be zapped by a mod.
Ditto.
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tomatoe
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:53:00 -
[17]
just get an alt to suicide shoot at your'e hulk,, concord will pop them and then hang around the belt while u mine away,,,,,
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Karille
Gallente
Cold Templars
Templar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:54:00 -
[18]
It's not concord that goes after -10s it's the faction navy. It is not an exploit to evade them. What was the corp so i can join?
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:54:00 -
[19]
I'll agree this is just yet another point for the "Remove insurance on CONCORD-related deaths" though.
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Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
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Synthetic Anon
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mr Deviant
hmm interesting. Very interesting. Now, where is that new orca I bought?
Step 2 means you have to have friends though. =( |
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Dyaven
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:55:00 -
[21]
I'm sorry, but I just have to sum this up in one word:
Genius.
I am so going to convince my corp mates to try this!
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* Your signature file is broken. Please use an image that will display - Fallout
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Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Zeba
Intersting exploit and noted as the ops text will surely be zapped by a mod.
not a exploit.
infact this have been done for years, just not with orcas
I'm sorry let me expand on that. Exploits are only ever banned as exploits when it becomes moar of a common use for them instead of a few crafty iterations. As in when a couple of people exploit CCP ignores it but when it becomes mainstream the nerfbat follows closely. And with Orcas about to become mainstream as the only high sec ship with a maintainance bay you can place at will near your intended targets you can bet it will take off like wildfire.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Kaar
Art of War
Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:56:00 -
[23]
And who are these glorious warriors?
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Hysenthlay
Minmatar
Marines Of A New Dawn
Yarrbear Equity and Trade Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:57:00 -
[24]
you have shown you can find them.
now just beat them at thier own game.
go pew pew that orca :)
____________________________
Silflay Hraka U Embleer Rah. |
Mr Deviant
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:58:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Mr Deviant on 01/12/2008 20:59:20
Originally by: Synthetic Anon
Originally by: Mr Deviant
hmm interesting. Very interesting. Now, where is that new orca I bought?
Step 2 means you have to have friends though. =(
I am a bonafied carebear. I will just offer my services to some piwates in exchange for lowsec immunity/protection.
I have rented myself out for less...
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Rosalina Sarinna
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.12.01 21:02:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Rosalina Sarinna on 01/12/2008 21:04:23
Theres an easy 'fix' to this, assuming you wanted it to be fixed. Thats allowing the NPC Navy to podkill.
(Btw, no I don't follow this 'fix' idea, I think the current system is fine, just saying that it would be a quick 'fix'  )
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
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Posted - 2008.12.01 21:03:00 -
[27]
It doesn't sound like an exploit, just a suicide gank op that has to be more frantic because you facing NPC police (for being an outlaw) and CONCORD for actually firing on people.
1. Outlaws CAN be in high sec, they just get shot by all players and they will trigger NPC faction police spawns (that web,neut and do some pretty big DPS). Its not an exploit for an outlaw player to be in high sec, to fly around in high sec, to aggress other players in high sec.
2. The result would have been the same if they were non flashy. In fact, it'd be much easier to organize simply because you would not have to be evading NPC faction police anytime an outlaw was in a ship.
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
konjev
Minmatar
Ray of Matar Assembly
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Posted - 2008.12.01 21:05:00 -
[28]
Edited by: konjev on 01/12/2008 21:06:41
how do u put a 500 000M¦+ ship in a 400 000M¦ shipmaintance bay?
and wasn't the insurance changed so it wouldn't pay wen concord was involved?
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Vak'ran
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Posted - 2008.12.01 21:05:00 -
[29]
I would agree in that the lack of consequences is a problem here. But as far as insuring T2 ships goes I am very much against such a plan. Having expendable T2 ships would completely turn around both pvp and the market. IMO if this would need be solved through insurance changes then abolish the insurance principle alltogether, force everyone only to fly what they can afford to lose.
That this is no fun is undeniable, but its far from the only 0 risk vs. huge reward problem eve has, and those are all a ***** to solve properly. As far as this one goes... I've got nothing.
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Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forums. |
Crimsonjade
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.12.01 21:09:00 -
[30]
oh my. thumbs up the the guys who conceived this. maybe there is hope for eve.
as for stopping this. im sure they have a price in mind
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