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Superfailsauce
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.12.13 00:43:00 -
[691]
Originally by: VIRUS DESTROYER pilots who are already -10 and getting full insurance on their ships on doing suicide gank in high sec should be somehow penalized, as of now they have nothing to loose, no sec status loss(cuz its max negative anyway) and full insurance.
First
Second:
No insurance payouts for concord was requested by the majority of the player base, instead we got the increased concord response timer, still making suicide ganking extremely cost effective under the right circumstances. ------- Larkonis' Alt, main got banned. |
Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.12.13 01:31:00 -
[692]
Originally by: Dyaven
Originally by: Zeba with no meaningful mechanics to stop it.
Kill the orca?
You can't... they're using the alt exploit. They'll never risk their Orca, and the orca will never be flagged.
And to the op: FFS don't mine in such a nice little macro blob, mmkay? Move your ships 6km from each other, or better yet set them all to orbit a point in space that keeps them within range of their mining object, and they'll be 100% untouchable by a suicide squad. Use a ship with tractor beams to snatch up cans as they're ejected.
Also: CCP - Remove insurance for CONCORD kills. And give us a mechanic to combat miners hiding in NPC corps, so we can kill these idiot miners without worrying about our sec status.
CCP - if a negative sec jumps into a ship, Shut down their combat ability (in areas they can't travel with their sec status, or standings). Lock off their ability to activate a smartbomb or deploy a drone unless its a mining drone. Don't scramble them, or even web them, just blow them up or send them running.
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SirMoric
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.13 03:23:00 -
[693]
Originally by: Alowishus What other insightful things does the noob alt have to tell us?
That you're the noobiest noob around, grow a pair my friend and go and play WoW.
rgds
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Superfailsauce
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.12.13 17:27:00 -
[694]
Originally by: SirMoric
Originally by: Alowishus What other insightful things does the noob alt have to tell us?
That you're the noobiest noob around, grow a pair my friend and go and play WoW.
rgds
More like Sir Moronic amirite? ------- Larkonis' Alt, main got banned. |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.13 17:36:00 -
[695]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 13/12/2008 17:37:22
Originally by: Thoren Gregson How to stop this? Step one is to fix insurance as has been suggested in the past, no insurance pay out to concord ship losses. But that wonĘt really stop this alone. A small fleet of tech 1 ships is still a better then even trade off for one (let alone 4) hulks mining together. Figure out a way to allow tech 2 ships to be insured to compensate for loss like tech one ships.
Agreed on having concord invalidate insurace. In a risk vs reward, there is little risk to the attacker if they have insurance backing them up. Agreed on that (heck, I would like insurance removed altogether so that losses actually mean something).
The Second point about t2 insurance. I disagree. Well, if you factor in the cost of fuel for building t2 from scratch, its pretty much the build cost of t2 ships. People charge more than the build cost for t2 components etc. If there was a insurance system that gave more than build cost, then people would self destruct ships for free profit. Thus reducing avalability and forcing prices up. T2 insurance should never be more than the build cost for someone who builds via a full t2 production chain. If anything, I think all insurance needs to be removed from this game. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Spike 68
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.12.13 17:42:00 -
[696]
The funny thing about this is that its not an exploit. Only a good idea, now its not such a good idea because everyone knows it. So your odds of getting ganked in the future are higher gg
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Leeluvv
Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.12.13 18:39:00 -
[697]
Originally by: Spike 68 The funny thing about this is that its not an exploit. Only a good idea, now its not such a good idea because everyone knows it. So your odds of getting ganked in the future are higher gg
Like stacking multiple MWDs used to be a good idea and nanos were a good idea....
See what I'm implying here?
Lee == Sig to follow |
MeatSlab
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Posted - 2008.12.25 20:33:00 -
[698]
Fist let me start of by saying that I dont blog or even talk in forums, so forgive me if i am placing this in the wrong place. Ok so this is my outtake on the ocra ganking thing. I for one don't see what all the whimpering is all about, and I am starting to get frustrated at everyone calling any advantage someone might have in this game an exploit!! Now I can understand "exploits" like that POS issue. That isnt fair. However, on the flip side, regardless of weather or not CCP intended on that glitch to exist or not, its kinda unfair to blame the players for utilizing the game the way it was made. I think that using the Orca for any other purpose than mining should not be an issue. I also think that low sec pirates using the Orca as a way to gank high sec miners is ingenious, not an exploit. Seriously plp!! Whatever happened to creativity. One of the things that has kept me playing this game for over a year is the opportunity to use my own creativity and mind to come up with new and different ways to do things. Frankly, deciding to remove items, options, or a part of the game takes away from that. It kinda erks me a bit. Don't nerf the orca. I think that a solution exist in other options. Such as; Don't allow pods in high sec regions that have a set sec rate. Limit it at whatever. Obviously in this situation that would be -10. Or how about improving the bounty aspect of this game a bit. Add bounty contracts finally! Improve the bounty system. look for other unfinished aspects of the game instead of taking away an improvement. That's just me.
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Bishop120
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Posted - 2008.12.26 09:32:00 -
[699]
Ultra simple fix for this...
Orca gains the security status of the lowest person in its maint. bay... ergo if it has people with -10 sec status in it then it becomes -10 and free for everyone to shoot.
Otherwise I think this is a very smart plan for people and changing insurance wont stop it.
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Illwill Bill
Svea Rike
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Posted - 2008.12.26 09:43:00 -
[700]
Originally by: MeatSlab Whatever happened to creativity
WoW happened. Now everyone wants their own little sandbox where they can isolate themselves from other players. Your post is spot on, btw.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Druadan
BLAM Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.26 14:22:00 -
[701]
Edited by: Druadan on 26/12/2008 14:22:51
Originally by: MeatSlab Fist let me start of by saying that I dont blog or even talk in forums, so forgive me if i am placing this in the wrong place. Ok so this is my outtake on the ocra ganking thing. I for one don't see what all the whimpering is all about, and I am starting to get frustrated at everyone calling any advantage someone might have in this game an exploit!! Now I can understand "exploits" like that POS issue. That isnt fair. However, on the flip side, regardless of weather or not CCP intended on that glitch to exist or not, its kinda unfair to blame the players for utilizing the game the way it was made. I think that using the Orca for any other purpose than mining should not be an issue. I also think that low sec pirates using the Orca as a way to gank high sec miners is ingenious, not an exploit. Seriously plp!! Whatever happened to creativity. One of the things that has kept me playing this game for over a year is the opportunity to use my own creativity and mind to come up with new and different ways to do things. Frankly, deciding to remove items, options, or a part of the game takes away from that. It kinda erks me a bit. Don't nerf the orca. I think that a solution exist in other options. Such as; Don't allow pods in high sec regions that have a set sec rate. Limit it at whatever. Obviously in this situation that would be -10. Or how about improving the bounty aspect of this game a bit. Add bounty contracts finally! Improve the bounty system. look for other unfinished aspects of the game instead of taking away an improvement. That's just me.
What amazes me more is that since corp insurance was introduced, people weren't doing this en masse with just a corpmate flying the ships out into a safespot and switching out pilots.
As has been said before, insurance needs fixing. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Darth Vaders
Caldari Divine Slaves
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Posted - 2008.12.26 14:47:00 -
[702]
Edited by: Darth Vaders on 26/12/2008 14:53:47 To start with KUDOS TO THE PIRATES FOR THINKING OF THAT!
As for the insurance system i would suggest to be removed alltogether except for freighters.
Apart that i don't see how this "exploit" can be fixed. To me it seems like a brilliant way to gang but not an exploit. Maybe the times where the macro farmers could mine freely through empire is over
(i don't mean that OP is macro)
Perhaps now we will see more organised mining operations with the inclusion of logistics etc. The OP can still defend his corp if he uses logistic ships but in any case the insurances must be removed cause what happened with now frigates can happen with hordes of torp ravens or pulse Armageddons fully insurable. That is why i urge you to remove insurances for all ships except maybe freighters. |
Draeca
Tharri and Co.
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:19:00 -
[703]
Probe the orca, fly there in pods and steal the empty ships before the -10 pods get to them? ___
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Technomagez
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:38:00 -
[704]
Originally by: Draeca Probe the orca, fly there in pods and steal the empty ships before the -10 pods get to them?
The -10s are using the Maint-Bay to get them, you won't be able to use it... Btw. those Piwates are just brillant.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.12.26 20:02:00 -
[705]
Originally by: Anhid Olow This is an interesting OP, thank you. But please, stop saying that loosing an insured ship costs nothing... did you check the price of insurance?
Did you check the size of the payout?
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Woodwraith
Total Mayhem. Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2008.12.26 20:07:00 -
[706]
Originally by: Bishop120 Ultra simple fix for this...
Orca gains the security status of the lowest person in its maint. bay... ergo if it has people with -10 sec status in it then it becomes -10 and free for everyone to shoot.
Otherwise I think this is a very smart plan for people and changing insurance wont stop it.
Changing the sec status of the Orca isnt the way to do it, to be a little more eloquent versus my post about 20 pages back, its not the pirates that need a nerf tbh, the miners need a better way to see danger coming besides hitting the scan button every ten seconds or scrolling top to bottom in local constantly looking for a influx of red skulls, both are a bit sh*t tbh, and certainly not a fun way to mine, if there is a fun way to mine, im unconvinced of that one
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RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.26 20:44:00 -
[707]
Edited by: RedSplat on 26/12/2008 20:46:54 This whole situation is a wonderfull example of one grop of players intellectually checkmating another, whom promptly sulk and cry foul play. Thankyou Pirates for making the professions of mining, trading and industry more profitable.
Anyway...
Originally by: Woodwraith
Changing the sec status of the Orca isnt the way to do it, to be a little more eloquent versus my post about 20 pages back, its not the pirates that need a nerf tbh, the miners need a better way to see danger coming besides hitting the scan button every ten seconds or scrolling top to bottom in local constantly looking for a influx of red skulls, both are a bit sh*t tbh, and certainly not a fun way to mine, if there is a fun way to mine, im unconvinced of that one
Miners already have recourse to ebil blinkies killing them and as you have spotted above that is paying attention.
Staying aligned to a station or Safespot isnt hard. If the hypothetical miner stays aligned and then hits warp as soon as someone suspicious arrives it is very difficult for them to be caught.
Our hypothetical miner only has to be at his computer to do this. I suppose this rather puts a kink in the plans of the numerous macro or semi-macro players out there but frankly, screw them.
Also- MOVE SYSTEMS. The initiative is with you Carebears of New Eden- sitting in a 0.5 system next door to lowsec is making you an appealing target.
An identifiable group harrassing you? Move 10 jumps away to a higher sec system-
This reduces concord response time dramatically, to the point that it is very hard to suicide gank- and certainly not profitable to do so.
Oh and investigate the possibilities inherent in tanking that hulk of yours
There was even talk of French toast
But there was none to be had |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.12.26 22:55:00 -
[708]
Originally by: Woodwraith
Originally by: Bishop120 Ultra simple fix for this...
Orca gains the security status of the lowest person in its maint. bay... ergo if it has people with -10 sec status in it then it becomes -10 and free for everyone to shoot.
Otherwise I think this is a very smart plan for people and changing insurance wont stop it.
Changing the sec status of the Orca isnt the way to do it, to be a little more eloquent versus my post about 20 pages back, its not the pirates that need a nerf tbh, the miners need a better way to see danger coming besides hitting the scan button every ten seconds or scrolling top to bottom in local constantly looking for a influx of red skulls, both are a bit sh*t tbh, and certainly not a fun way to mine, if there is a fun way to mine, im unconvinced of that one
Actually that is a great way of dealing with it. If you remote rep someone who is -5 you get a GCC. The Orca helping those pilots is really no different.
The pirates can still do their thing but they accept risk like everyone else must. As it stands they are accepting no risk really when doing this (they know their ships will get popped so that is not a risk...that is a cost of doing business same as paying to put something on the market). Putting their Orca on the line helps balance the equation. The miners may or may not go after it but the potential would exist.
Bottom line insurance should also be adjusted. For game balance it should never be profitable to suicide a ship based on hull costs. Those ships may start to become worthwhile suicide targets with valuable mods on but just the hull and a basic fit (which I would include T2 mods) should never be better than break-even to suicide cost wise.
-------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Mawusi
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Posted - 2008.12.27 01:29:00 -
[709]
I dont understand why such wanted criminals are allowed into hisec at all, just because they arent in a ship.
Its like letting Osama Bin Laden into the USA just because he doesnt have a bomb on him.....
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Dors Venabily
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Posted - 2008.12.27 02:55:00 -
[710]
Now this is simply brilliant really hat down to those folks for this. As for the OP you did the first thing right you scanned them down next step was supposed to be a couple of insured geddons hotdropped on that orca and kill it. You do it once or twice and they will leave the area going after easier targets.
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alexreborn
Sekura-Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.27 03:04:00 -
[711]
What should be changed?:
Make the Orca flashy red to Concord for assisting outlaws. Outlaw flies to the ship, if the ship allows them to use hangar bay thats an assist. Thats like giving guns to criminals. GCC, and shoot on sight by concord.
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The Slagh
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Posted - 2008.12.27 03:06:00 -
[712]
People could do this without Orcas. All that would be required is that someone fly in the fitted ships to a safespot and have the pirates get in them.
Working as intended.
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Lia Darklotus
Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.27 03:26:00 -
[713]
I think the op just found the solution to Jita lag.
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F4LC0N
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Posted - 2008.12.27 03:49:00 -
[714]
ever thought of having a logistic ship protect your hulks? and use their range so they wont suicide it with ure hulks
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.12.27 04:16:00 -
[715]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 27/12/2008 04:16:24
Originally by: F4LC0N ever thought of having a logistic ship protect your hulks? and use their range so they wont suicide it with ure hulks
The only thing more boring than mining is guarding miners. Good luck finding people willing to do this for you on anything like a regular basis for hours at a time.
Added to that is the additional cost. It is hard enough to turn a decent profit mining without splitting the take amongst more people.
Added to that I am not convinced Logistics ships would help anyway. A suicide gank happens fast. A Logistics ship would be lucky to get one rep cycle in there...maybe two. We crunched numbers on this ages ago regarding Freighter ganks and it was clear remote repping simply could not provide any reasonable safety to the freighter given how fast it took damage. While I have not crunched numbers for Hulks in this case the timeframe to take down the Hulks is every bit as fast as a Freighter. As such I have a sense that without a fleet of remote repping logistic ships they would be ineffective at preventing a gank.
-------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Yaris San
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Posted - 2008.12.27 06:20:00 -
[716]
Originally by: VIRUS DESTROYER pilots who are already -10 and getting full insurance on their ships on doing suicide gank in high sec should be somehow penalized, as of now they have nothing to loose, no sec status loss(cuz its max negative anyway) and full insurance.
How long does it take to get to -10 sec status?
The reason I ask is many of the suggestions are based on if the pilot has a -10 sec status. What if the character has a -2 sec status? I understand that if your sec status is higher than -10 you have something to lose - but what if you don't care about sec status?
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Malvorak
Amarr IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.12.27 12:40:00 -
[717]
So ppl are winning because they cant afk mine/macro mine in peace because ebil pirates kill them in high sec?
For shame!!!!
Plz fix this CCP!!!
"I wave my private parts at your aunties son of a window dresser" |
21 Salvager
Minmatar Moons of Pluto Space Exploration and Logistic Services
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Posted - 2008.12.27 12:57:00 -
[718]
Originally by: RedSplat Staying aligned to a station or Safespot isnt hard. If the hypothetical miner stays aligned and then hits warp as soon as someone suspicious arrives it is very difficult for them to be caught.
It is a little hard, and near impossible for a bookmark (since you can't use the Align button to fly towards them at full speed).
Please keep in mind that the time to warp from 0 m/s is the same for any direction. Just pointing your ship at a point and then stopping does no good at all.
So, you'd have to align and fly towards a celestial, then turn around and align/fly towards some object in the other direction before you get to far from your asteroids. I still don't think this is feasible while mining. ----- I'm a collector! Want to trade? See my Collection List and contact me. |
Orogaldeo
Amarr Extreme Solutions Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.12.27 13:15:00 -
[719]
Exactly as planned... ________________________________
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MeatSlab
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Posted - 2008.12.28 03:29:00 -
[720]
What amazes me more is that since corp insurance was introduced, people weren't doing this en masse with just a corpmate flying the ships out into a safespot and switching out pilots.
As has been said before, insurance needs fixing.
I agree the insurance needs fixing. Concord kills etc. However, I don't think that it is going to detour these guys from ganking miners. They are doing it for fun. And I'm assuming that the -10 pirates do a bit of low sec ratting even mining. Isk probably isn't an issue. They are doing it for fun! I read somewhere up they were using frigs assaults? Um, well I don't insure frigates kinda ships. 15million is easy money. they arent taking a loss and a bigger loss, like takin insurance away (if they are insured) isn't going to stop them. Refuse low sec pods jump gate entry. Marinate on this all. If i commit a crime and drove away, but came back on foot. Am I any less wanted? Or any less of a criminal. I could walk past a cop, but not drive? The bounty system needs reinvention.
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