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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 09:43:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Tippia on 17/12/2008 09:43:53
Originally by: HankMurphy if eccm worked , we would be spared all these ****in threads
We would also be spared from them if people used counter-ECM tactics and ships.
And like others have already done, I'd like to reiterate the three lols of Arazus and Lacheses (or whatever the plural is) from a previous thread:
LOL! You now have a lock-on range of 2μm. LOL! You can't escape or catch up because of 20km scrams. LOL! Here, have a helping of counter-cruiser drones.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2008.12.17 09:46:00 -
[62]
sensor backup arays, and eccm BOTH work, and i dont even fly a friggin falcon.
- DAMT -
If you dont know, well, you dont know!
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.17 09:52:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 17/12/2008 09:53:10
Originally by: KingBobs Dawn question:wich module can
-disrupt all your turrets to 100% -defend all your missiles -disrupt your remote repair -makes free of warp scrambles and disruptors -makes free of stasis webb -disable attack-orders for drones -disable the EW from your target -more then one can be used at one target without an drawback -all this in an save range of 100km and more out side from the battle ? Right the ECM-****-off module
The issue is not ECM. ECM is fine.
With that said, I am sure that if CCP had redesigned ECM tommorow, then all 4 races would have had it, but with the difference being that each race would specialise in the racial variant. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 10:13:00 -
[64]
Originally by: NeoTheo sensor backup arays, and eccm BOTH work, and i dont even fly a friggin falcon.
There's also a gang warfare link that provides a nice bonus to sensor strength.
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Xtreem
Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 10:15:00 -
[65]
Just a few days ago i got into some small group action the 2 gangs were
our gang 4 x bs theirs - eagle, demios, sabre, raven, thorax, harbinger, vexor , oynx , falcon, falcon, few intercepters.
now we are fine with being outnumbered but we had faith in our dps, the problem was 3 or at some points all 4 of our bs were jammed, by 2 ships that were 150km away, im fine with them being able to jam as long as they can only do so at a closer range! they just need a much harsher fall off or somthing, when one of our bs went down, the 3 of us left were permajammed, although we done well, and won the fight overall they held the gate as eing perma jammed we had to stop and leave, being that we could not target anything lol, they do need to be, re adjusted
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 10:18:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Xtreem Just a few days ago i got into some small group action the 2 gangs were
our gang 4 x bs theirs - eagle, demios, sabre, raven, thorax, harbinger, vexor , oynx , falcon, falcon, few intercepters.
now we are fine with being outnumbered but we had faith in our dps, the problem was 3 or at some points all 4 of our bs were jammed, by 2 ships that were 150km away, im fine with them being able to jam as long as they can only do so at a closer range! they just need a much harsher fall off or somthing, when one of our bs went down, the 3 of us left were permajammed, although we done well, and won the fight overall they held the gate as eing perma jammed we had to stop and leave, being that we could not target anything lol, they do need to be, re adjusted
I highlighted the fail part.
So their balanced gang, 2x your numbers, butchered your 4 BS with no support at all. Surprise...
Do you think you'd have done any better if they'd had a couple of Curses instead? (hint: No, you'd have died even faster)
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Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 10:21:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Tippia on 17/12/2008 10:21:47
Originally by: Xtreem Just a few days ago i got into some small group action the 2 gangs were
our gang 4 x bs theirs - eagle, demios, sabre, raven, thorax, harbinger, vexor , oynx , falcon, falcon, few intercepters.
So let's see here… A cookie-cutter brute squad versus a well-rounded gang of everything from light and nimble to heavy; from tacklers to support to damage dealers; from short to long-range DPS ships; using every weapon system in the game. Yeah, I think you should have lost that on pure principle — ewar or not.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Le Cardinal
Black Plague.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 10:28:00 -
[68]
Hey Mom! Im posting in a nerdrage thread where nubs whine about ecm. Eccm works fine. Ive used it several times and it works.
basically, get some skills. Learn how to pvp, and dont come here whining if you try to beat the world solo.
It was just a matter of time before ppl started whining about ecm too.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 10:40:00 -
[69]
Originally by: HankMurphy if eccm worked , we would be spared all these ****in threads
For ECCM to work it must be fitted, then activated.
For some reason these ECM nullo trolls can never seem to produce the killmails of their 12 quad-ECCM'd BS which were permajammed by a single falcon from 249Km.
And I do mean never. In over a year of asking in these stupid whine threads, I have always asked for this basic proof and the people who complain about ECCM have always failed to provide it.
And since ECCM should provide pretty damb good protection from jamming, if it's not working, why haven't you bug-reported it?
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DMF KingBob
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Posted - 2008.12.17 10:58:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Dasfry
Originally by: DMF KingBob there is no way to counter ecm effectivly with except ecm self
LoL
ECCM = electronic COUNTER counter messures
a counter to a counter, = lots of counting
hm that means it should give the ability that the jammer jamm his self x)
and falcons are hard to figure out and to beat becouse the can warp cloaked with out an drawback!!!
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Mac Maniac
Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:01:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Mac Maniac on 17/12/2008 11:05:32 Let me guess the classic BS remote repping gang vs. the T2 warp scram/jamming gang. T2 gang breaks the repping gang's locks, T2 gang wins.. T2 gang fails at breaking the repping, BS gang wins. Looks like tactics and strategy (on both sides) to me. As far as ECM goes, Looks like the OP needs to adjust his strategy and tactics to compensate for ECM not adjust the game for his lack of planning.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:02:00 -
[72]
Originally by: DMF KingBob
Originally by: Dasfry
Originally by: DMF KingBob there is no way to counter ecm effectivly with except ecm self
LoL
ECCM = electronic COUNTER counter messures
a counter to a counter, = lots of counting
hm that means it should give the ability that the jammer jamm his self x)
and falcons are hard to figure out and to beat becouse the can warp cloaked with out an drawback!!!
actuly that would be interested.
when activated ECCM makes it so there is a chance any incomming ECM will backfire and jam the jammer.
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DMF KingBob
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:09:00 -
[73]
Originally by: DMF KingBob
Originally by: Dasfry
Originally by: DMF KingBob there is no way to counter ecm effectivly with except ecm self
LoL
ECCM = electronic COUNTER counter messures
a counter to a counter, = lots of counting
hm that means it should give the ability that the jammer jamm his self x)
and falcons are hard to figure out and to beat becouse the can warp cloaked with out an drawback!!!
the eccm should give the pilot an effective chance to reflect the ecm maybe supported by an effectiv skill like eccm-interfacing wich gives 20% to the chance of reflection becouse the current state of eccm is very sennsless i have seen ships with over 200 sensor strengh that getting perma-jammed(cycle on cycle) by an falcon
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:13:00 -
[74]
dude you should try full agro in guristas 'the assault'. The air turns blue I can tell ya
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Squably
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:13:00 -
[75]
Originally by: DMF KingBob it sucks to lose every fight through ****ing ecm its comming from 100 km out side of the battle and makes my 2 year close to 50 mil sp char 100% senseless every time
it is able in this ****ing **** game(where i pay time and money for) to make an fight in low sec without being perma jammed by an ****ing alt char or so ?????
So you fail epicly. Learn how to pvp and come back. Signature removed. Please do not imply profanity in your signature. Navigator
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KeLLaX
HUNLAR the Almighty Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:15:00 -
[76]
Originally by: DMF KingBob there is no way to counter ecm effectivly with except ecm self
put 2 eccms on a combat recon and solo any falcon :) tested & found successful
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Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:17:00 -
[77]
Originally by: DMF KingBob i have seen ships with over 200 sensor strengh that getting perma-jammed(cycle on cycle) by an falcon
Wouldn't mind seeing some proof tbfh. ECCM does work, and a single sniper BS fitted with 1 ECCM can annoy a falcon enough to make it disengage and leave the fight if it's sensible, or pop it if it's not. (and for those whining and crying "ECCM DOESN'T WORK!" it does, you need to activate it BEFORE you are jammed)
ECM is chance based. Tracking disruptors are not. Sensor dampners are not.
Drones will still attack while you are being ECM'd. FoF missiles still work when you're being ECM'd.
If you can't fight effectively without ECM ruining your day - you might want to change how you're fighting. Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
Karille
Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:19:00 -
[78]
Originally by: DMF KingBob
Originally by: DMF KingBob
Originally by: Dasfry
Originally by: DMF KingBob there is no way to counter ecm effectivly with except ecm self
LoL
ECCM = electronic COUNTER counter messures
a counter to a counter, = lots of counting
hm that means it should give the ability that the jammer jamm his self x)
and falcons are hard to figure out and to beat becouse the can warp cloaked with out an drawback!!!
the eccm should give the pilot an effective chance to reflect the ecm maybe supported by an effectiv skill like eccm-interfacing wich gives 20% to the chance of reflection becouse the current state of eccm is very sennsless i have seen ships with over 200 sensor strengh that getting perma-jammed(cycle on cycle) by an falcon
Screw ECCM. Why doesn't a Sensor Booster boost sensor strength? I say it should also be given a bonus for sensor strength and an associated script be designed.
Also, jamming is freakin chance based. As in, There's a CHANCE it'll be insane and work every time. But anyway if you think it's overpowered why don't you ask about changing the formula, giving it a base failure chance that can't be overcome?
(jammer strength/target strength) - base failure rate = chance to jam
Doesn't matter to me either way though.
Vote for Karille next CSM cycle. Forum players need a voice too. |
Xtreem
Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:26:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Xtreem Just a few days ago i got into some small group action the 2 gangs were
our gang 4 x bs theirs - eagle, demios, sabre, raven, thorax, harbinger, vexor , oynx , falcon, falcon, few intercepters.
now we are fine with being outnumbered but we had faith in our dps, the problem was 3 or at some points all 4 of our bs were jammed, by 2 ships that were 150km away, im fine with them being able to jam as long as they can only do so at a closer range! they just need a much harsher fall off or somthing, when one of our bs went down, the 3 of us left were permajammed, although we done well, and won the fight overall they held the gate as eing perma jammed we had to stop and leave, being that we could not target anything lol, they do need to be, re adjusted
I highlighted the fail part.
So their balanced gang, 2x your numbers, butchered your 4 BS with no support at all. Surprise...
Do you think you'd have done any better if they'd had a couple of Curses instead? (hint: No, you'd have died even faster)
i highlighted your fail part, being that isk and loss wise we won, they lost hacs, bs, etc, we only lost 1, you obviously missed my point, we dont like to bob with large blobs, my point is no matter what ships we were in, we could have done nothing to stop them, infact in this instance we were best of in bs due to there sensor strenth.
if we were in fast ships, we would still be jammed if we were in all tanked ships - jammed dps ships - jammed ecm ships, maybe if we got the first jam in we could jam them, but with only 4 in our gang having 2 of our own ecm to take out there ecm, when they were 150km away from gate and we were jumping into gate would have got our them killed before we could of been any use.
i dont know who u decided to reply in such a hostile way, seeing as all i suggested is they just make them have to do it closer, rather than so damned far away, as i do not want them gone at all, just make them less untouchable and then to suggest "I failed" with your so funny highlighted you fail (which i decided to borrow) and suggest that we even lost, when in fact we did not is pretty laughable, but thanks for taking the time to be so hostile :)
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Le Cardinal
Black Plague.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:27:00 -
[80]
Originally by: DMF KingBob
Originally by: Dasfry
Originally by: DMF KingBob there is no way to counter ecm effectivly with except ecm self
LoL
ECCM = electronic COUNTER counter messures
a counter to a counter, = lots of counting
hm that means it should give the ability that the jammer jamm his self x)
and falcons are hard to figure out and to beat becouse the can warp cloaked with out an drawback!!!
Falcons are supposed to be hard to figure out, oh because they are supposed to be hard to find. Just like a rapier, a pigrim and arazu.
Fit a lowslot eccm and/or a medslot eccm, or fit remote eccm if you fly in gangs to boost eachother. And get ecm in your gang. Its all about skills. A falcon pilot with crappy ew skills wont manage to jam anything at range. Thus hes easy prey if he comes close. Good ecm skills means he have trained alot for it and deserve to jam you if you havent bother to train to counter it.
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Tais
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:28:00 -
[81]
Quote:
ECM is chance based.
Only if sensors are more powerfull than ECM. Otherwise = permajam.
Dampeners are useless in mid-close range. ECM still 100% effective.
Quote:
Drones will still attack while you are being ECM'd. FoF missiles still work when you're being ECM'd.
From 170-250km ??? Your' joking ?? That's normal working distance of falcons. And drones attack within 57 at max skills.
FOF missiles will fire at nearest agressive target. This meaning usually HACs and intys holding you. Doing almost 0 damage. = Fail. Missiles are only Caldari weapon. And they are not a good option in PvP.
Quote:
If you can't fight effectively without ECM ruining your day - you might want to change how you're fighting.
Totally wrong.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:32:00 -
[82]
Face facts - EW is in the game, and you're going to have to deal with it. Remove ECM, and people will simply switch to tracking disruptors. A pair of Curses would easily be able to put a TD on each of your ships, and they'd be nuking the secondary's cap and chewing on the primary with 10 bonused Hammerhead IIs as well while you sat there, able to lock for all the good it would do your oversized guns with 60% less tracking than before, trying to hit anything and failing horribly. In fact if they'd had those Curses instead, I reckon you'd have taken more losses.
Your small one-trick DPS gang will always be outclassed by a larger, balanced gang whether it has falcons or not.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:34:00 -
[83]
Face facts - EW is in the game, and you're going to have to deal with it. Remove ECM, and people will simply switch to tracking disruptors. A pair of Curses would easily be able to put a TD on each of your ships, and they'd be nuking the secondary's cap and chewing on the primary with 10 bonused Hammerhead IIs as well while you sat there, able to lock for all the good it would do your oversized guns with 60% less tracking than before, trying to hit anything and failing horribly. In fact if they'd had those Curses instead, I reckon you'd have taken more losses.
Your small one-trick DPS gang will always be outclassed by a larger, balanced gang whether it has falcons or not.
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Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:36:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Tais
Quote:
ECM is chance based.
Only if sensors are more powerfull than ECM. Otherwise = permajam.
If you can give me a falcon/rook setup that will have a jamming strength of ~40-50 for a racial ECM I'd agree it's OP (BS sensor strength when using an ECCM). As it stands, I think the average is about a jam strength of 15-18 with good skills and T1 rigs. Sure, you've got more than 1 jammer, but if the falcon/rook has 5 racials of your type, they're kinda gimped against other types and that's their weakness . . .
Quote:
Quote:
If you can't fight effectively without ECM ruining your day - you might want to change how you're fighting.
Totally wrong.
How so? I can't win against a Mega in my Ibis, obviously Megathrons are OP - let's nerf them. I can't win against a Tempest in my failfit Rohk with small projectiles, obviously Tempests are OP - let's nerf them.
If you're not willing to change your tactics or how you're fighting to get rid of ECM boats when they do come on grid, then you deserve to get jammed and killed. Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
Neamus
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:37:00 -
[85]
I agree with the OP, ECM basically sucks donkey balls at the moment.
Its over powered, even with two ECCM fitted, when it fails every other cycle its still enough to completely take you out of a fight.
Giving up mid slots for ECCM isn't really a viable option atm, you're gimping your ship for something that has little or no effect most of the time.
Currently the only real way to fight ECM is with more ECM.
Please either nerf ECM or boost ECCM, as things stand it's just no fun at all.
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Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:45:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Tais From 170-250km ??? Your' joking ?? That's normal working distance of falcons. And drones attack within 57 at max skills.
Actually, it's 60km without ship bonuses, 85 in drone-specific ships.
Quote: Missiles are only Caldari weapon. And they are not a good option in PvP.
Wat? Are you saying that only Caldari use missiles? No. There are plenty of ships among the other races that are missile boats. Or are you saying that the Caldari ships only use missiles? In which case no again — they have a large assortment of hybrid turret ships.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:53:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Le Cardinal Fit a lowslot eccm and/or a medslot eccm, or fit remote eccm if you fly in gangs to boost eachother.
…speaking of which, I find it interesting that in a time when remote-repping is as popular as ever, things like remote sensor boosting and remote eccm goes almost completely unnoticed even though the principle is exactly the same and even though the effectiveness of the gang-support mods is far greater than what you get from fitting self-support modules.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Tais
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:55:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Mickey Simon
If you can give me a falcon/rook setup that will have a jamming strength of ~40-50 for a racial ECM I'd agree it's OP (BS sensor strength when using an ECCM).
Who needs 40-50 str ?? I only want to say, that last time i was in fight support vs capitals, 6-7 carriers were almost perma-jammed by the same ammount of falcons.
Quote:
As it stands, I think the average is about a jam strength of 15-18 with good skills and T1 rigs. Sure, you've got
14.5 approx. Rigs having heavy penalty, so they are almost useless
Quote:
If you can't fight effectively without ECM ruining your day - you might want to change how you're fighting.
Totally wrong.
How so? I can't win against a Mega in my Ibis, obviously Megathrons are OP - let's nerf them. I can't win against a Tempest in my failfit Rohk with small projectiles, obviously Tempests are OP - let's nerf them.
Actually you can. Ibis + Falcon. you run out of batterys in time %)
Quote:
If you're not willing to change your tactics or how you're fighting to get rid of ECM boats when they do come on grid, then you deserve to get jammed and killed.
This is why i'm very carefull them facing cloacked enemys. 1-2 falcons can totally disable small roaming gang.
And yes. ECM is overpowered. I admit it even if i use it. It must be in game, but it need to be balanced.
Specialized EW ship with 3!!! bonuses to 1 weapon system is Overpowered. Other Force-Recons have splitted bonuses to: Damage (Drone in pilgrim). Primary EW (TD in pilgrim). Secodary (Drain\Neut ammount in pilgrim) And none of them have EW range bonus like Falcons. There will be less problems with 70-80km jammer optimal not 200+
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:58:00 -
[89]
"Waaaahhhh, I have to fit ECCM to counter ECM. Waaaahhhhh, ECCM doesn't make me immune"
Did every Caldari missile-whiner suddenly buy a new char?
ECCM works fine. No it wont help you if every single enemy jammer is on you, but guess what, if you had every single enemy damp on you, you wouldn't do **** either.
Let me give you a tip; All other than Caldari EWAR works pretty good on non-EWAR ships. Sensor damps turn ECM-ships into nothing more than paperweights.
Every single scenario in this whine-thread would have failed had the opponent flown Lachesis/Arazu as well. It's not the ship, it's you.
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Frances Ducoir
Gallente Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
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Posted - 2008.12.17 11:59:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Mickey Simon
ECM is chance based. Tracking disruptors are not. Sensor dampners are not.
Drones will still attack while you are being ECM'd. FoF missiles still work when you're being ECM'd.
If you can't fight effectively without ECM ruining your day - you might want to change how you're fighting.
fail
compare the range of ECM & tracking disruptors / sensor dampers and try again.
sensor damper with mediocre skills has opt range of 33+ km and a falloff of 72 km. that means beyond 33km it IS CHANCE BASED. (~50% chance at 100km)
i dont know why people still keep spilling this crap about ecm being chance based and other ewar not. *snip* Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch |
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