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REmove ECM from game

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 11:59:00 - [91] Originally by: Tippia Wat? Are you saying that only Caldari use missiles? No. There are plenty of ships among the other races that are missile boats. Or are you saying that the Caldari ships only use missiles? In which case no again ù they have a large assortment of hybrid turret ships. Other ship missing range \ velocity bonuses, and Amarrs mostly use close range missiles. Typhoon have only 4 launchers, have crappy damage and still stuck within 100km range (aprox). Yes, Caldari have turrets, but point was in FOF missiles. Do caldari have FOF turrets too ??
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:03:00 - [92] Originally by: Tais And none of them have EW range bonus like Falcons. There will be less problems with 70-80km jammer optimal not 200+ Ehm… The following Recon ships have an EWar optimal bonus: + Falcon (+100% from mandatory Cruiser V) + Rook (+100% from mandatory Cruiser V) + Arazu (+20% – +100% from Recon I–V) + Lachesis (+20% – +100% from Recon I–V) + Rapier (+60% – +300% from Recon I–V) + Huginn (+60% – +300% from Recon I–V) No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Gonada Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:06:00 - [93] lol nice one 2 years and 50 mill SP, pure bull****. the op has most likely bought his char. 1/10 troll Please, jump into traffic
Captin Corsair	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:10:00 - [94] all ECM should do is break a lock with a minor non stacked relock relay. Done!
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:11:00 - [95] Originally by: Tippia Ehmà The following Recon ships have an EWar optimal bonus: + Falcon (+100% from mandatory Cruiser V) + Rook (+100% from mandatory Cruiser V) <--- Combat + Arazu (+20% û +100% from Recon IûV) + Lachesis (+20% û +100% from Recon IûV) <--- Combat + Rapier (+60% û +300% from Recon IûV) + Huginn (+60% û +300% from Recon IûV) <--- Combat Force Recons is not Combat Recons. And now compare primary EW base optimal. Rapier - Stasis 10km -> 40km Arazu - Warp disruptor 24km -> 48km Falcon - ECM 45km(no skill bonuses) -> 162km (skills+ship bonus) making sense ??
El Yatta Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:12:00 - [96] Stupid idea in a stupid post from a stupid person. That's fairly stupid. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:15:00 - [97] Honestly, ECM is a very frustrating form of electronic warfare because you cannot do much in battle. But what would you replace it with?
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:16:00 - [98] Originally by: El Yatta Stupid idea in a stupid post from a stupid person. That's fairly stupid. Totally agree. Removing ECM - No Balancing ECM - Yes
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:19:00 - [99] Edited by: Tais on 17/12/2008 12:21:47 Originally by: TimMc Honestly, ECM is a very frustrating form of electronic warfare because you cannot do much in battle. But what would you replace it with? For a start remove falcons ECM Optimal range and give him Missile damage bonus. As all Force recons have. + There was idea of scripted ECM. This would solve most of it. Splitted to Jam STR and Optimal. I can live with 28 jammer STR at 30-40km. or 7 at 200
Research Rachel	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:21:00 - [100] Originally by: Tais Originally by: Mickey Simon If you can give me a falcon/rook setup that will have a jamming strength of ~40-50 for a racial ECM I'd agree it's OP (BS sensor strength when using an ECCM). Who needs 40-50 str ?? I only want to say, that last time i was in fight support vs capitals, 6-7 carriers were almost perma-jammed by the same ammount of falcons. carriers almost perma-jammed? you ever tried to jam a carrier? even with max falcon, it takes a few cycles to to jam one and in that time it's easy for a carrier to launch fighters at you. and anyway, where the f* was the carriers support? Originally by:** Tais And yes. ECM is overpowered. I admit it even if i use it. It must be in game, but it need to be balanced. Specialized EW ship with 3!!! bonuses to 1 weapon system is Overpowered. Other Force-Recons have splitted bonuses to: Damage (Drone in pilgrim). Primary EW (TD in pilgrim). Secodary (Drain\Neut ammount in pilgrim) And none of them have EW range bonus like Falcons. There will be less problems with 70-80km jammer optimal not 200+ azuru, curse, rapier all have drones, plus turrets to use for offensive weapons (missiles, rails or neuts), plus ew, can scram, web... can all be used solo. falcon's only use is to jam... it has 2 lauchers with the dps of a wet fish, if falcon gets touched then i want a falcon solo mobile like the others. but at the end of the day you suck, you failed to use any of the counters to a falcon and now your failwhining on here, seriously, learn to counter stuff without the whine module and you'll see the falcons a one trick pony... granted it does it well when you noobs fail to fit correctly but how is that our fault?
castraitory Minmatar AND THEN NO YOU	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:24:00 - [101] Is it to late to train up for a falcon? Was going to but I think they will be nerfed b4 I have decent skills. I think the falcon needs a nerf, when you see kill boards and 10-20% of the fleet is made up of falcons you know something is wrong. The easiest solution is the range as the other recons with t2 gear have to be within 50km. Think that would make them think twice about uncloaking.
Amanda Wilkins Caldari Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:30:00 - [102] Originally by: DMF KingBob WRONG: i cant give attack orders while being jammed ECM jams your vent? Tell the group to attack the ECM ship, use FOF missiles, use drones set to guard... and stop being a whiney baby Amanda Wilkins CEO of Dromedary, Goat, Albatross and Fish ***** DGAF teaches PVP to new players and veterans alike ... because we DGAF!
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:32:00 - [103] Originally by: Research Rachel carriers almost perma-jammed? you ever tried to jam a carrier? even with max falcon, it takes a few cycles to to jam one and in that time it's easy for a carrier to launch fighters at you. and anyway, where the f* was the carriers support? Imagine. Yes. They were perma-jammed. Each Falcon have 2 racial jammers, even if 1-2 cycles missed, others do theyr job. Fighters were chacing our ships all around system. Enemy support was butcherd. Quote: azuru, curse, rapier all have drones, plus turrets to use for offensive weapons (missiles, rails or neuts), plus ew, can scram, web... can all be used solo. 100% damage bonus i can live with that too :D Quote: falcon's only use is to jam... it has 2 lauchers with the dps of a wet fish, if falcon gets touched then i want a falcon solo mobile like the others. Exactly. As i said before. Narrow specialized ship with 3 bonuses. Give him something else. Quote:** but at the end of the day you suck, you failed to use any of the counters to a falcon and now your failwhining on here, seriously, learn to counter stuff without the whine module and you'll see the falcons a one trick pony... granted it does it well when you noobs fail to fit correctly but how is that our fault? I don't have problems then i have falcons in my fleet. OP starter does. But i support ECM balacing \ falcon nerf.
castraitory Minmatar AND THEN NO YOU	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:32:00 - [104] Originally by: Amanda Wilkins Originally by: DMF KingBob WRONG: i cant give attack orders while being jammed ECM jams your vent? Tell the group to attack the ECM ship, use FOF missiles, use drones set to guard... and stop being a whiney baby Your Drones go 200km? Nice drones.
Kwa Kaine eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:34:00 - [105] Whats the best counter to a falcon... Another falcon. The predominant whine for the nano nerf was that the only way to counter nano was with more nano. Do I smell a nerf to ECM coming??? It'll be good when they nerf them tbh, then I wont have to bring my falcon alt along with me all the time just in case someone uncloaks a falcon on me in the middle of a good brawl. CCP = Blizzard in training
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:39:00 - [106] Originally by: Kwa Kaine Whats the best counter to a falcon... Another falcon. Wrong. I use ECCM on mine. GL jamming. Quote: The predominant whine for the nano nerf was that the only way to counter nano was with more nano. Do I smell a nerf to ECM coming??? Nano had alot of options to counter except other nano. ECM have 1 - ECCM (and maybe other ECM to counter-jam)
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:40:00 - [107] Edited by: Tippia on 17/12/2008 12:45:08 Originally by: Kwa Kaine Whats the best counter to a falcon... Another falcon. Nah… Arazu. Keeps the sucker from escaping too… Originally by: Tais Force Recons is not Combat Recons. Irrelevant, since the FRs and CRs have the same EWar bonuses — you should know this. Quote: And now compare primary EW base optimal. Also irrelevant. Your argument was that the Falcon was the only one with a range bonus. You should know this too. Just like you should know the max range of drones. In fact, there are quite a few things about this that you don't seem to know about. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Ms Flint Caldari Magnum Opus Mineral Retrieval Magnum Opus.	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:44:00 - [108] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: PeachesAndCream Have you tried not sucking? That usually fixes it. This. seconded. either: get some sp and fit some ecm yourself. or.... cry some more... and contract you tears to me - they make excellent POS fuel. ______________ remember: internet spaceships are serious business!
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:46:00 - [109] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Kwa Kaine Whats the best counter to a falcon... Another falcon. Nahà Arazu. Keeps the sucker from escaping tooà Hmm. BTW good option, but still a problem to get in 40-60km range scramble him with latest nano nerf.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:46:00 - [110] Originally by: Gonada lol nice one 2 years and 50 mill SP, pure bull****. the op has most likely bought his char. 1/10 troll is it even possible ot get that much sp in 2 years? I'm running to 3 years and I never miss a skill. I have 40 million sp.
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:46:00 - [111] Originally by: Tais Edited by: Tais on 17/12/2008 12:21:47 Originally by: TimMc Honestly, ECM is a very frustrating form of electronic warfare because you cannot do much in battle. But what would you replace it with? For a start remove falcons ECM Optimal range and give him Missile damage bonus. As all Force recons have. + There was idea of scripted ECM. This would solve most of it. Splitted to Jam STR and Optimal. I can live with 28 jammer STR at 30-40km. or 7 at 200 This makes sense, but... ...don't forget to give the Falcon a fighting chance such as a dronebay if you do this. Also, with scripts, you'd also better remove multi and raical jammers, and only have one module which works against all sensor types.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:49:00 - [112] Originally by: Tais Edited by: Tais on 17/12/2008 12:21:47 Originally by: TimMc Honestly, ECM is a very frustrating form of electronic warfare because you cannot do much in battle. But what would you replace it with? For a start remove falcons ECM Optimal range and give him Missile damage bonus. As all Force recons have. + There was idea of scripted ECM. This would solve most of it. Splitted to Jam STR and Optimal. I can live with 28 jammer STR at 30-40km. or 7 at 200 So Rook gets, for example, kenetic missile damage and perhaps explosion velocity bonus, and ECM cap usage and strength bonus. Falcon has the same, but replacing kenetic missile damage bonus with covert ops CPU. Then scripts are added. A 100% bonus to strength takes away 50% optimal, and 100% bonus to optimal takes away 50% strength. Both scripts double cap usage.
Soi Mala	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:55:00 - [113] Originally by: Kwa Kaine The predominant whine for the nano nerf was that the only way to counter nano was with more nano. That wasn't it at all. There were plenty of counters to nanos, but thats a different thread. (no longer directed at Kwa) ECM is fine, annoying, but fine. It does a valuable job on the battlefield and falcons themselves are not omnipitent. You whine that only falcons can counter other falcons - not true... Long range setup with ecm? Got a covert ops warp in on him? Damps on him? Even if falcons are a new mandatory thing for a gang, what are you whining about? i don't here any "waaaaaaaahhhh, every gang i fly in HAS to bring a tackler! thats a waste of good dps!" Falcons are so easy to scare off the field its unbelievable. He can't jam you all, and if he can, it means you have a gang of 3-4. Why oh why didn't you bring a force multiplier in such a small gang? Thats the very reason they're in game for. Stop crying just coz they detract from your idea that everyone should just set orbit to 3km, point web and club each other to death, leaving nothing but skills as the deciding factor. Its an inherent problem with Time based skilling - the people who spend more time seem to expect to become untouchable and able to kill stuff in one hit. Well eve isn't that way, never was and never will be. Its a tactical game. A game where thought, anticipation, and piloting skill play a much bigger part than the length of time you've been playing, and ifor one am thankfull for that.
Jack Gilligan Dragon's Rage KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:55:00 - [114] Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 17/12/2008 12:57:15 You do realize there are mods that you can fit that will boost your sensor strength, right? Plus it's not hard at all to kill ECM ships. They can't fit any kind of tank at all, and if they get primaried they go BOOM! in one alpha strike easily. Ironically in a gang I think the best anti-Falcon ship is another Caldari ship... The long range Eagle. Use T2 250mm's and Spike, dead Falcon. No other HAC can match it's range. Stick a handful of Eagles in your fleet and task them as a dedicated anti-Ewar squad. --- My opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my corp or alliance.
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:06:00 - [115] Originally by: Tippia Irrelevant, since the FRs and CRs have the same EWar bonuses ù you should know this. Oh sorry, mistyped, they all have, but i see them inferior comparing to Falcon. About 4-5 times inferior. Quote: And now compare primary EW base optimal. Also irrelevant. Your argument was that the Falcon was the only one with a range bonus. You should know this too. Just like you should know the max range of drones. In fact, there are quite a few things about this that you don't seem to know about. Did i mentioned something about drone boats with bonuses?? If you play in EFT, yes all @5 char have 60km. My chars are not all@5 and they have 57km. Base ranege - 20km Scout drone operatiion - +25km (5km per level) EW drone operation - +12km at lvl4 (3km per level) And whis is 57km. And yes. +3km from EW drone op will be 60. Wanna tell me more about things i don't know or understand ??
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:12:00 - [116] Originally by: Tais Did i mentioned something about drone boats with bonuses?? If you play in EFT, yes all @5 char have 60km. My chars are not all@5 and they have 57km. That's all nice and dandy, but that's not what you said, now is it? You said that "drones attack within 57 at max skills" which is entirely incorrect. With max skills, it's 60km — 85 in some drone boats — and since you mentioned max skills, the done boat bonus becomes relevant since it, too, is skill-dependent. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:15:00 - [117] Originally by: Tippia That's all nice and dandy, but that's not what you said, now is it? You said that "drones attack within 57 at max skills" which is entirely incorrect. With max skills, it's 60km ù 85 in some drone boats ù and since you mentioned max skills, the done boat bonus becomes relevant since it, too, is skill-dependent. But still does it really matters 57 or 60 or 80 then your target sitts @ 200 ??
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:17:00 - [118] Originally by: Tais But still does it really matters 57 or 60 or 80 then your target sitts @ 200 ?? It matters because it casts some doubt over how well you've managed to calculate your other numbers… No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:20:00 - [119] Originally by: Tais But still does it really matters 57 or 60 or 80 then your target sitts @ 200 ?? I tend to get in a lot of gang fights and if we are attacking a set position or if problem ships like a falcon warp in at range we reposition the engagement. Jumping into a gate camp and then complaining that ppl are smart enough to sit outside you max range is kinda dumb tbh, be prepared, expect ewar to be a issue and act accordingly.
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:25:00 - [120] It takes 2 minutes even less to to set snipers \ falcons at sniping point. Even without fast intys.

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