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To those who would support slavers in Catch

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Suitonia Gallente interimo End of The Line.	Posted - 2009.01.26 07:20:00 - [211] So, System Shock Intiative wish to be allies and neutrals to whoever it is convient for them at the time, you claimed you would reset the Providence block when you could. You seem like a very selfish alliance that only wants to further its own goals while trying to stay neutral to anyone who could oppose you. You cannot embrace slavery, and help enforce the slavers KOS list and intel channels while remaining neutral to freedom fighters. If you truly are neutral in the war of slavery then you should distance yourself from the Providence alliances which all support slavery, aiding the enemy of freedom makes your an enemy by association.
Kelban Kevar Gallente The Order of Black Knights SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE	Posted - 2009.01.26 08:24:00 - [212] yet another guilt by association speech how nice and predictable.
shanda captison The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.26 10:47:00 - [213] Originally by: Jon Rocks But...But, you have chosen your target and region to carefully. I will take that as a compliment, thank you. Originally by: Jon Rocks First, you blue up to the region "powerbloc" which makes you less nervous on your roams. Sure, you have SSI and sylph, neither known for there PvP elitism. Also knowing that SSI space is an inconvenient 12jumps or so around from Providence and if you go south its even more dangerous with -A-. Ahhh, Providence, CVA and there holders.. Your approach is that you cant break it so why bother. Its easier down here. Your not doing your people any good by taking the easy road. You are born of a slave and you may find that you will always have that blood and mentality. You would be better served joining a faction warfare gang and serving your people that way. Or, report to a slave colony. This just shows that you; generally know nothing and have read none of this transmission. Please go back, read from the beginning, and then repost. If you expect an explaination for what we're doing at least have the decency to be aware of what is actually happening. If you still think your point is valid after reading back. Well, I think settle on, our stats speak for themselves.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.26 12:57:00 - [214] Originally by: Kelban Kevar i find it funny as hell that anytime some one disagres with uk, that there suddenly supposed to work for my allaince ... Given your previous attempts of deception, are you surprised?
O Thief The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.26 13:16:00 - [215] Originally by: Mister Builder no you have made ya demands to us for being your slaves to very clear. and i find it funny that you expect the amarr ppl to let all the slaves go right now; what the Empress did is a good first step in the right direction.and since slaves are just normal ppl there is not the many generations of slaves left alive the 9th were released would mean only the 8th and 7th would still be alive maybe some 6th but not many since there not cloned like us pod pilots. and im all for freeing them all but before that could be done the correct infastuture would have to be inplace for the amarr to take over the jobs the slaves fill themselves wich would take time. Attacking them only make them cling to there ideal that much more,you can not kill a ideal only change it and you all dont seem to understand that. Also let not forget the fact you only took on this role after you all was removed from providence and you use this to cover up your long standing grudge with cva. You would have helped your cause by writing your own statement. Playing silly political games with us, whilst doing nothing of substance to renounce your support for slavers, is not going to get you very far. I'm sorry SSI but you cannot allow someone elses words to spin your way out of this one.
Il Morte	Posted - 2009.01.26 14:20:00 - [216] Kelban, Please announce specifically what you plan to do and how you plan to act in regards to my previous questions to your alliance. You speak in circles and you need to take a stand, make allies, and become part of the politics; otherwise get the hell out of Catch. As an independant observer in this I would be weary of your alliance at this time regardless who I was, There are great questions and rumers as to the trustworthiness of your alliance amongst the residence of Catch and Providence. You need to take a specific stand and side cause playing both sides may seem ok to you but it will eventually haunt you. If you want this all to end then you need to choose. Either you will embrace the freedom fighters of UK, or the Slavers of CVA, or act as Sylph and not care either way whether slavery exists or not but align yourself with group, simply to beter your alliance. But you need to choose and be specific. Then since you obviously lack the capabality to defend yourself or your space, You need to ask the leaders or commanders of those alliances for help in your defense, or offense depending on who you choose, but you will not be able to have peace on both sides. It does not work that wayin Catch, it never has and probably never will.
Hisuami	Posted - 2009.01.27 09:24:00 - [217] Well SSI and Kelban - I can understand your desire to be neutral to everyone, it's good for business, but simple fact is that you are free to choose your actions, not your surroundings. You are in the middle of warzone between two ideologically opposed entities and it seems you didnÆt take that into account when moving in. Reasons why UÆk operates NBSI in catch and providence have been discussed here at length, that includes indirect support of slavery via trade and profit generation for slavers, but itÆs also tactical consideration for the safety of our pilots that in warzone we treat everyone as hostile until proven otherwise. We cannot have luxury of having neutrals who might or might not be passing intel to our enemy, trading or otherwise supporting slavers. To the best of our abilities weÆve informed pilots around world of eve about our stance in area of question and if they choose to ignore it, as you did, then they have only themselves to blame for being ignorant of surroundings. Simple fact of the matter is that you cannot play both sides against middle, not when you are in the middle of warzone, not when you are in position to relay intel to our enemies, not when safety of our pilots is at stake. These are my own views and do not necessarily represent those of the UshraÆKhan.
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.27 09:44:00 - [218] Originally by: Hisuami These are my own views and do not necessarily represent those of the UshraÆKhan. However, I think you are pretty spot on with your account of the situation.
Il Morte	Posted - 2009.01.27 16:56:00 - [219] Very interesting thing I noticed this morning while having my mulled wine. I checked the galactic maps and it seems SSI no longer has GMLH. Unity does. Does this confirm that freedom is making a comback in lower catch? Has SSI made a deal with UK or just finally the inevitable happened. Do tell do tell please do tell.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:46:00 - [220] Originally by: Il Morte Very interesting thing I noticed this morning while having my mulled wine. I checked the galactic maps and it seems SSI no longer has GMLH. Unity does. Does this confirm that freedom is making a comback in lower catch? Has SSI made a deal with UK or just finally the inevitable happened. Do tell do tell please do tell. SSI leadership has varying ignored or spurned our terms, thus choosing to be part of the problem rather than part of the solution. It's a shame, really, since they are an otherwise irrelevant entity, and would never have needed to endure our fire had they not chosen the wrong home and cultivated the wrong allies. On a no doubt entirely unrelated note, there have been several unconfirmed reports of large energy spikes at several SSI station locations. While it's possible that SSI staff simply forgot to turn the bathroom lights off (all at once), the energy readings are more reminescent of fleet assaults against stations. -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Conlin Gallente Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:46:00 - [221] Originally by: Il Morte Very interesting thing I noticed this morning while having my mulled wine. I checked the galactic maps and it seems SSI no longer has GMLH. Unity does. Does this confirm that freedom is making a comback in lower catch? Has SSI made a deal with UK or just finally the inevitable happened. Do tell do tell please do tell. The situation is SSI are still trying to play both sides of the field through lies and tricks . Yesterday we finished off any last remains of SSI presence in GMLH . Hostilities between U'K & SSI are increasing daily . We know our limits and are watching the situation very closely as to the provi blocks response , so far their has been none . Time will tell .
O Thief The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:32:00 - [222] Originally by: Il Morte Very interesting thing I noticed this morning while having my mulled wine. I checked the galactic maps and it seems SSI no longer has GMLH. Unity does. Does this confirm that freedom is making a comback in lower catch? Has SSI made a deal with UK or just finally the inevitable happened. Do tell do tell please do tell. Being honest, no deals have been reached, though not through lack of our trying. Our terms remained unchanged from day one. The sov issue you highlight is just a result of the fighting, and was not planned. SSI's last remaining large tower in that system was destroyed very late last night, and this caused the flip to U'K sov. It was almost an unintended consequence (we originally wanted neutral sov to prevent them using a cynojammer), and I'm not sure if we will even keep static assets in the system since our goal of removing their infrastructure has been achieved. I guess we'll liaise with -A- regarding that since it is technically their space. The irony is that the tower claiming Sov is one of the liberated Amarr towers from SSI. Beaten by their own assets - it has raised a smile on our side of the fence, to be sure.
Kelban Kevar Gallente The Order of Black Knights SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE	Posted - 2009.01.27 23:47:00 - [223] Originally by: O Thief Originally by: Il Morte Very interesting thing I noticed this morning while having my mulled wine. I checked the galactic maps and it seems SSI no longer has GMLH. Unity does. Does this confirm that freedom is making a comback in lower catch? Has SSI made a deal with UK or just finally the inevitable happened. Do tell do tell please do tell. Being honest, no deals have been reached, though not through lack of our trying. Our terms remained unchanged from day one. The sov issue you highlight is just a result of the fighting, and was not planned. SSI's last remaining large tower in that system was destroyed very late last night, and this caused the flip to U'K sov. It was almost an unintended consequence (we originally wanted neutral sov to prevent them using a cynojammer), and I'm not sure if we will even keep static assets in the system since our goal of removing their infrastructure has been achieved. I guess we'll liaise with -A- regarding that since it is technically their space. The irony is that the tower claiming Sov is one of the liberated Amarr towers from SSI. Beaten by their own assets - it has raised a smile on our side of the fence, to be sure. your terms are a joke,in fact there not terms at all there demands that would turn my allaince in to subservant slaves for you and you damn well know it, and we both know you all damn well wanted that system dont sit here and lie aboiut it then point fingers other places. every one at this point knows damn well uk dont give a damn about slaves you just hate cva so much you have to since there removal of you from prov you'll do anything to try and get it back but,but if it was just a grudge match you'd get no recruites hence the "rp" excuse.then to top it all off you still cant mess with cva so you have to find the newest kid on the block and step on them.
Algey The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:08:00 - [224] Kelban, do you have any idea how long U'K has been fighting slavery? You are aligned with the Providence slavers, and find it strange that we find that a little annoying, maybe even slightly distasteful? You wish to be allied to them, that is your choice. I do not believe for a second there is anyone who thinks we'd ignore that alliance though.
Kelban Kevar Gallente The Order of Black Knights SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:34:00 - [225] i know your historys very well
Conlin Gallente Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.28 02:25:00 - [226] Originally by: Kelban Kevar i know your historys very well I say you dont !!! I say answer Il Morte , he was impartial from the start , but the more you ignore his simple recquests , the more foolish you are becoming . Even your friends are giving up on you .
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.28 02:34:00 - [227] Enjoy the freedom granted by your benevolent new ~~masters~~allies while it lasts. If they haven't sent their lawyers over with the documentation of the 'minor details' of the agreement you've entered with them yet, no doubt you have an interesting discussion coming soon. Pray to your new 'god' that it doesn't involve any vials of 'medicine' for your own protection.
Kelban Kevar Gallente The Order of Black Knights SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE	Posted - 2009.01.28 07:12:00 - [228] Originally by: Il Morte Kelban, Please announce specifically what you plan to do and how you plan to act in regards to my previous questions to your alliance. You speak in circles and you need to take a stand, make allies, and become part of the politics; otherwise get the hell out of Catch. As an independant observer in this I would be weary of your alliance at this time regardless who I was, There are great questions and rumers as to the trustworthiness of your alliance amongst the residence of Catch and Providence. You need to take a specific stand and side cause playing both sides may seem ok to you but it will eventually haunt you. If you want this all to end then you need to choose. Either you will embrace the freedom fighters of UK, or the Slavers of CVA, or act as Sylph and not care either way whether slavery exists or not but align yourself with group, simply to beter your alliance. But you need to choose and be specific. Then since you obviously lack the capabality to defend yourself or your space, You need to ask the leaders or commanders of those alliances for help in your defense, or offense depending on who you choose, but you will not be able to have peace on both sides. It does not work that wayin Catch, it never has and probably never will.
Kelban Kevar Gallente The Order of Black Knights SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE	Posted - 2009.01.28 07:36:00 - [229] Originally by: Conlin Originally by: Kelban Kevar i know your historys very well I say you dont !!! I say answer Il Morte , he was impartial from the start , but the more you ignore his simple recquests , the more foolish you are becoming . Even your friends are giving up on you . and to conlin please run away more from me i find it very funny
brandon packy	Posted - 2009.01.28 07:41:00 - [230] To be honest, being sandwiched inbetween UK and Slyph, SSI must make its choice carefully. If I were in their shoes it would be best to side with who is more powerful. Since UK has -A- looming in their background, it would be smart to not aggravate friends of -A-. Even though -A- is in a major war with goons/whomever, they are easily the most powerful group in catch and can rollover the providence block with ease. SSI has to pick a side regardless of their views towards slavery, as this force will sweep over SSI's cozy little space if given any motivation to do so. It is a quagmire for SSI. Siding with CVA will mean that if CVA commits to the defense of SSI space (if UK attacks sovereignty claims), one quick convo or request will lead to the destruction of any defense fleet the prov block will muster at the hands of -a- (it is undoubtable that -a- will jump on the opportunity to kill a cap fleet if asked to do so by UK) On the other hand, SSI can side with UK, aggravating Slyph and the Prov block. Slyph lives very close to SSI, and constant struggles will result. SSI needs to choose quickly, or face a takeover by -A- (their war will last as long as the north is committed to helping goons).
Karn Mithralia Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.28 08:39:00 - [231] Lets be very clear Kelban. a) We have no masters, our friendship with -A- is based on mutual respect and mutual goals. Ask them. b) We don't want your space, but that doesn't mean we won't base from it if its falls into our hands due to your incompetence. One tower is hardly a serious play for turf. As has been repeatedly said you are simply in the way, loud mouthed, full of crap, and un-able to conduct diplomacy even if its presented to you on a plate. For those wishing to know the outcome of U'K's last offer to SSI here it is: Seeing a desire for peace amongst SSI's membership, U'K once more offered our terms for surrender with a deadline for response. While Kelban attempted to negotiate our non-negotiable terms his men (I use the word in its widest sense) continued their tirade of lies and abuse. Kelban then sort to muddy the waters by renouncing slavery (something we never accused you of), and in doing so entirely missed the point. KelbanÆs attempts to negotiate disintegrated into further accusations and pathetic distortions of the truth, until, as the deadline passed, our diplomats cut comms. With some relief I might add. The desperate man has nothing to bargain with, he either surrenders or he lives up to his fate. You cannot have it both ways Kelban. You will now find U'K's diplomatic door shut, we will waste no more energy talking with you. See you in space.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.28 09:09:00 - [232] Originally by: Kelban Kevar To answer your question we did try to stay non alignd to any one As has been stated repeatedly throughout this thread, your definition of neutral needs some work. You were allied with Sylph, a known friend of slavers, you stated that you wished to sell supplies to slavers, you were observed using Sylph jumpbridges to perform your logistics, you passed information about U'K freedom fighter movements to our enemies, and spent some considerable time in local channels talking about how you were arbitarily executing slaves. Regardless of what lies you are trying to spin, Ushra'Khan exists for the sole purpose of freeing slaves. Killing slavers and their allies is a very important part of this. Claiming territory is not. I am glad that diplomacy has been abandoned, frankly I'm amazed that our diplomats have been able to maintain negotiations for so long. We come for our people
Squinaki Gallente Immortal Trinity	Posted - 2009.01.28 10:25:00 - [233] Originally by: Karn Mithralia Lets be very clear Kelban. Seeing a desire for peace amongst SSI's membership, U'K once more offered our terms for surrender with a deadline for response. While Kelban attempted to negotiate our non-negotiable terms his men (I use the word in its widest sense) continued their tirade of lies and abuse. Kelban then sort to muddy the waters by renouncing slavery (something we never accused you of), and in doing so entirely missed the point. I've been following this discussion for a while now and I'm really wondering what these terms are. I think if Ushra'Khan are truly freedom fighters these terms should be very attractive to accept. Besides that if Ushra'Khan openly states these terms other people can get a better view on the situation and decide who is lying and if terms a worth calling them freedom fighters or a pirate/terrorist alliance. But looking at what usually happens with most terms of surrender, they will make leaders vassals and their people simple slaves to their new "masters". Therefor I do not expect Ushra'Khan to openly state the terms Also if those terms are really freedom fighter worthy, my current guess is they will not keep their end of the deal, if SSI ever decides to accept.
Kade Jeekin Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2009.01.28 10:44:00 - [234] Originally by: Squinaki ... Also if [Ushra'Khan's] terms are really freedom fighter worthy, my current guess is they will not keep their end of the deal, if SSI ever decides to accept. Ushra'Khan is known by it's word. Your last statement implies you need to do more research.
O Thief The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:03:00 - [235] Edited by: O Thief on 28/01/2009 11:06:35 Let's examine for a moment SSI's claims to be 'neutral'. 1) They ally with our enemies and arrange mutual blue 2) They arrange use of Providence holders jump bridge networks 3) Our enemies protect their outpost deployment 4) They pass intelligence on U'K fleets to the Providence holders 5) They move in and set up sov 2 jumps from an -A- station system without consulting them 6) They do not speak to us with regard to their intentions and standings prior to moving in 7) They threaten our pilots in local before a shot was fired between us 8) They attempt to block our travel pipes before a word is so much as spoken on a diplomatic level If that equals 'neutral' in SSI's eyes I suggest they go back to the Imperial Academy and buy a bloody dictionary. You were hostile from day one. That we've even offered a diplomatic route is a testament to our patience. Now you can just die, and few will mourn your end. Oh, and we thank you for your donation of another large Amarr tower to our cause which was liberated at the point of unanchoring. Thats, what, the third one now? Most generous.
Cribb Minmatar Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:56:00 - [236] Edited by: Cribb on 28/01/2009 11:58:55 Originally by: Kelban Kevar Edited by: Kelban Kevar on 28/01/2009 07:34:04 To answer your question we did try to stay non alignd to any one, but uk decided for us that wasnt to be they decided to drag us in to a war to pick them or prov.and has since started many of the rumors you no dout hear with there propaganda machine, we wanted to and we tried to stay out of the politics, as it really dont matter here we sell our goods to. as far as cutting off acces to them via one pipe they could have went the other way up the hed pipe and left on alone all togather. but if we have to choose a side it dout it would ever be one that has attacked us since day one. as far as gmlh goes how long before uk's masters demand it handed over to them we shall see Now now don't start lying again Kelban. It is known that SSI members flew with CVA and Sylph friendly in their bio's Even before we made contact. And right from that moment you started saying you had no bond with Sylph. Still u could use W9 to your liking and had a sylph pos in KW, not to mention the Sylph ratters in kw. Still holding on we are neutral to all.... Pls be a man and say you never had the intention to renounce slavery and those who uphold it.. I think GE still has a tower up? Well take it save you from feuling it. And no we don't want any system sov, even the shack you call a station is of no interest. Since that thing is placed in the worst possible spot.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.28 12:04:00 - [237] Edited by: Poreuomai on 28/01/2009 12:37:27 Originally by: Kelban Kevar ... uk dont give a damn about slaves you just hate cva so much you have to since there removal of you from prov ... What do you think U'K was doing in Provi in the first place?
Il Morte	Posted - 2009.01.28 13:57:00 - [238] And who said there was nothing in catch. A third tower taken from SSI by the UK. Uk held system, non responses from CVA and Sylph from these actions. Either SSI is truly on its own or they dont know how to play politics and request assistance or make friends. Kelban, for advice I offer you this, You definatley need to reach out hat in hand to whomever you think can best protect you. As stated before you are truly in a no win situation as is. UK will destroy you and the older alliances will not help obviously on thier own without your formal requests and co operation on your own part. This is the way of the traditional alliances, it is shall we say protocol of the universe. They are probably waiting till you ask for help and if you dont they will prbably deal with the situation after you are gone. It has happened many times before and history has a habit of repeating itself. If by chance you decide you were wrong on picking sides and work with UK and set them blue agreeing to their terms, you will then be attacked by the full force of the provodence block, and without -A- backing you up will be removed from the area. This is just the way of catch. Possibly one of the worst places to set upi shop without following proper politics. This is Catch it may have no concord help here, it may not fall under any empire or republic control, but there are rules to follow for diplomacy. I suggest you start that diplomacy and get to know the people who will be helping you very well, get them to know you, because those are the poeple who are going to risk their pilots for you. You have made your choice at this time to side with Sylph, CVA and the providence block. Therefore you can expect a lot of UK harrasment probably more than you have had before, therefore it would be imperative for you to reach out to your friends and develop a plan with their diplo's and military commanders as to how to best handle this situation; and how they can best assist you. Remember help always comes to those who ask in Catch. You just need to ask someone, and yes that help sometimes comes at a price of some sort or another. If you let pride get in the way you will not be able to succeed.
O Thief The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.28 14:47:00 - [239] SSI have requested assistance, and it has been forthcoming. A good example of this was a 120 man Severence/Sylph/Providence Holders fleet which attempted to reinforce the liberated SSI tower in GMLH. The problem is that they don't bother defending their own assets. And they have only asked for help on strange occasions - there was no benefit at all to their friends assaulting the tower we stole from SSI, it only gave us numerous kills. It isn't like we paid ISK for it or it serves a strategic purpose, other than farming the hulls of the friends of slavers. With questionable decisions like this, it is no wonder their friends are despairing of them. I certainly would be in their shoes.
Il Morte	Posted - 2009.01.28 15:08:00 - [240] To UK I say this, You have been honorable as long as far as I can remember. You were criticized for the use of of mercanaries dusring your quarrel with CVA but that was survival and can be understood. To some you are freedom fighters, to others you are terrorists. Your actions however are more similar to terrorists than you may even realize. Not that I condemn you for your actions, nor would I suggest you stop. You are facing a superior numerical and logistical force and you need to use what means you can. You could not defeat your enemies in a straight on fight if they choose to come after you and you know this without serious help form others. This help though from others and your current allies include slave holders and those who condone slavery. I understand the whole enemy of my enemy is my friend ideal, but i wonder, what would the great Karishal think of this. Would he be pleased of the mighty Ushra'Khan working olongside slavers and having slavers as friends. I mean no blasphemy when I say I believe he would truly be disappointed, Karishal fought and died for freedom, condemning slavers to the end. He would rather he died alone than consort with those who were aginst the very ideals he believed in. Look in the mirror warriors of freedom, or terrorists of the empire. Look closely and tell me who are you and who have you become and have you truly lost the way.

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