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NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.27 22:42:00 - [841] Edited by: NightmareX on 27/02/2009 22:43:36 Originally by: Raniss Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Raniss Seriously FailmoreX stop trolling, save yourself from the humiliation your undergoing right now because everyone sees you havent brought in a single decent point to the whole discussion. All we see from you is epeen stroking, you talking about 1vs1 situations while we are looking at the sucky role of blasters in gangs, stupid trolling, more stupid trolling. Just for your own sake, stop making yourself look even more stupid than you have been doing every thread since. Ask Atomic Battle Penguins corp if they think Blaster megas are crap in gang fights?. I personally think they will smack you if you tell them that Blasters sucks in gang combat. And your point? See here we go again. Ok, since your dumb enough to not see it. Why do you think Atomic Battle Penguins corp use Blaster BS ships in those gang fights they have?. Is it because Blasters are worthless, or is it because Blasters works fine?. Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise
Raniss	Posted - 2009.02.27 22:50:00 - [842] Edited by: Raniss on 27/02/2009 22:52:16 Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 27/02/2009 22:46:07 Originally by: Raniss Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Raniss Seriously FailmoreX stop trolling, save yourself from the humiliation your undergoing right now because everyone sees you havent brought in a single decent point to the whole discussion. All we see from you is epeen stroking, you talking about 1vs1 situations while we are looking at the sucky role of blasters in gangs, stupid trolling, more stupid trolling. Just for your own sake, stop making yourself look even more stupid than you have been doing every thread since. Ask Atomic Battle Penguins corp if they think Blaster megas are crap in gang fights?. I personally think they will smack you if you tell them that Blasters sucks in gang combat. And your point? See here we go again. Ok, since your dumb enough to not see it. Why do you think Atomic Battle Penguins corp use Blaster BS ships in those gang fights they have?. Is it because Blasters are worthless / crappy, or is it because Blasters works fine?. Because they all where too ****ing lazy to train for the FOTM like anyone else who cares about maximux efficient ships? And again, this post brougt nothing to the whole discussion, atm i see your only busy with trying to save your UberSisiEcmPestWarriorOnline image
NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.27 22:53:00 - [843] Edited by: NightmareX on 27/02/2009 22:54:57 Originally by: Raniss Because they all where too ****ing lazy to train for the FOTM like anyone else who cares about maximux efficient ships? And again, this post brougt nothing to the whole discussion, atm i see your only busy with trying to save your UberSisiEcmPestWarriorOnline image And how long time have Amarr / Lasers been FOTM now?. I don't think it takes over a year to go from Gallente BS'es to Amarr BS'es. And no ABP is not lazy pvpers. And what have you been saying others than ohh booo hoo, blasters sucks awwwwww bleh?. By the posting you do now, your not posing anything good your self smartypants. Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise
Raniss	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:03:00 - [844] Edited by: Raniss on 27/02/2009 23:05:41 Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 27/02/2009 22:54:57 Originally by: Raniss Because they all where too **ing lazy to train for the FOTM like anyone else who cares about maximux efficient ships? And again, this post brougt nothing to the whole discussion, atm i see your only busy with trying to save your UberSisiEcmPestWarriorOnline image And how long time have Amarr / Lasers been FOTM now?. I don't think it takes over a year to go from Gallente BS'es to Amarr BS'es. And no ABP is not lazy pvpers. And what have you been saying others than ohh booo hoo, blasters sucks awwwwww bleh?.** By the posting you do now, your not posing anything good your self smartypants. There is no other need for me than to say anything other than that, since people like Murina have already proven multiple times (in this verry thread, you might want to read it) that blasters suck in any gang situation (read: there are much better shipchoices), and 1vs1 situations are unrealistic only because of the reason solo pvp died and current game mechanics force people to take part of the 'blob/ecmwarfare online' game. So, my question, if blasters suck for gang pvp since there are obviously better choices, and they suck for solo pvp because of the reason there is no solo pvp, what do they DONT suck at? Now lets see if your counterargument to this statement (or any of your last counterarguments) can be something different than "OMG LULZ u just dont know how to fly it, i do becuz i fly pwnzor ecmpest and i own the whole singularity server with my pvp god uberness, LOL U NOOB U SUCK BECAUSE U R TO STUPID NOOB HAHAHA", im following the whole thread but i havent seen much more from you than this.
NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:06:00 - [845] Edited by: NightmareX on 27/02/2009 23:08:30 Originally by: Raniss Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 27/02/2009 22:54:57 Originally by: Raniss Because they all where too **ing lazy to train for the FOTM like anyone else who cares about maximux efficient ships? And again, this post brougt nothing to the whole discussion, atm i see your only busy with trying to save your UberSisiEcmPestWarriorOnline image And how long time have Amarr / Lasers been FOTM now?. I don't think it takes over a year to go from Gallente BS'es to Amarr BS'es. And no ABP is not lazy pvpers. And what have you been saying others than ohh booo hoo, blasters sucks awwwwww bleh?.** By the posting you do now, your not posing anything good your self smartypants. There is no other need for me than to say anything other than that, since people like Murina have already proven multiple times that blasters suck in any gang situation (read: there are much better shipchoices), and 1vs1 situations are unrealistic only because of the reason solo pvp died and current game mechanics force people to take part of the 'blob/ecmwarfare online' game. Now lets see if your counterargument to this statement (or any of your last counterarguments) can be something different than "OMG LULZ u just dont know how to fly it, i do becuz i fly pwnzor ecmpest and i own the whole singularity server with my pvp god uberness, LOL U NOOB U SUCK BECAUSE U R TO STUPID NOOB HAHAHA", im following the whole thread but i havent seen much more from you than this. What my counterargument to what Murina have said?, that Blasters sucks in most situations? LOL. I think ABP are saying that Murina is wrong in every possible way when it's about Blaster Megas in gangs. I can tell you one of the reasons why they don't have any problems with Blasters, because they are smart to warp right on top of the enemy they are fighting. And when you said that 1 vs 1 fights have died on TQ, that made you the same as Murina, a really bad poster in this topic tbh. You don't have a single clue about what your talking about when it's about 1 vs 1 fights on TQ. Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:07:00 - [846] Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 27/02/2009 23:11:04 Originally by: Raniss There is no other need for me than to say anything other than that, since people like Murina have already proven multiple times that blasters suck in any gang situation (read: there are much better shipchoices), and 1vs1 situations are unrealistic only because of the reason solo pvp died and current game mechanics force people to take part of the 'blob/ecmwarfare online' game. The most amusing thing is that even goumindong agrees that blasters suck in gang combat, he just thinks they deserve to, mostly cos he wants amarr to stay way OP in BS gang combat on TQ compared to AC and blasters. My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake.
NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:10:00 - [847] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 27/02/2009 23:08:54 Originally by: Raniss There is no other need for me than to say anything other than that, since people like Murina have already proven multiple times that blasters suck in any gang situation (read: there are much better shipchoices), and 1vs1 situations are unrealistic only because of the reason solo pvp died and current game mechanics force people to take part of the 'blob/ecmwarfare online' game. The most amusing thing is that even goumindong agrees that blasters suck in gang combat compared to lasers, he just thinks they deserve to, mostly cos he wants amarr to stay way OP in BS gang combat on TQ compared to AC and blasters. Wasn't Kil2 talking about that he have more went to Gallente BS'es now?. Because in fact, Amarr BS'es / Lasers aren't that good as someone says they are?. Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:10:00 - [848] Taking bets now when the next thread cleaning will be due. I'll say give it another 2 pages...
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:15:00 - [849] Originally by: NightmareX Wasn't Kil2 talking about that he have more went to Gallente BS'es now?. Because in fact, Amarr BS'es / Lasers aren't that good as someone says they are?. I have seen no posts to that effect but i have seen lots of "use rails" posts ect from gourmie... So apparently rails > blasters, i hope nobody starts using them on sissi or your ecmpest may be in trouble... My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake.
NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:22:00 - [850] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: NightmareX Wasn't Kil2 talking about that he have more went to Gallente BS'es now?. Because in fact, Amarr BS'es / Lasers aren't that good as someone says they are?. I have seen no posts to that effect but i have seen lots of "use rails" posts ect from gourmie... So apparently rails > blasters, i hope nobody starts using them on sissi or your ecmpest may be in trouble... Awww, look at you, sooooooooo bitter. Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise

Trader20	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:25:00 - [851] Lasers already deal the worst damage type (em/therm) because of the armor tankers high resist, so no need to nerf them. (I know most if not all of you already know this but I thought I would just remind u ). The problem with blasters is they're a situational weapon (close pvp range) and pulses are universal (mid-long pvp range). Making blaster a universal weapon would make them largely op. I don't see a problem with giving blaster a huge falloff boost...make them fight in falloff untill they mwd into range.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:31:00 - [852] Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 27/02/2009 23:33:24 Originally by: Trader20 Lasers already deal the worst damage type (em/therm) because of the armor tankers high resist, so no need to nerf them. I do not think lasers particularly need a nerf either no matter the dmg types or as i see those as not so important tbh (although less tracking would not hurt). 1. Blasters on BS need reworking as they are now a almost worthless system on TQ, lasers can easily compete at close range with the available targets BS have especially when you factor in single let alone multiple webs. 2. The extra agility blaster ships have over laser ships is also irrelevant even when applied against unwebbed ships as BS (even the MOST agile BS) are just not agile enough compared to their peers to make even a slight difference let alone a large on in combat. 3. Rails tracking is so sucky that even a 50ms webbed BS can kite them at under 2km and their max dps even in perfect conditions a pathetic joke (578dps). 4. Cap while considered the "bane of lasers" is also the bane of blasters as well if not more so as they need to almost constantly burn their MWD to get into optimal range where they do very little more dps than lasers anyway. 5. The single extra mid slot on the Hyperion does allow a extra web but considering the web stacking penalty and the fact that multiple ships with 1 web each work just as well as 1 ship with 2 webs each the benefit is negligible compared to the extra 40,000 ehp abaddons get. My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake.
NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:40:00 - [853] Edited by: NightmareX on 27/02/2009 23:44:21 Saying Blasters are worthless only because Lasers have longer range on it's guns is the biggest joke someone can say. And because of the resists you have to EM and Thermal on your Omni tanks now days, the 1k Laser DPS isn't as great after all. When i can tank any Amarr BS'es in my Tempest with this in low slot: 1x Large Armor Repairer II 1x Damage Control II 2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1x Gyrostabilizator II Then i think the DPS on Lasers are pretty low on an omni tank. Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise
sAyArrrr Minmatar Omyst Research	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:52:00 - [854] Edited by: sAyArrrr on 27/02/2009 23:53:41 Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 27/02/2009 23:47:11 Saying Blasters are worthless only because Lasers have longer range on it's guns is the biggest joke someone can say. And because of the resists you have to EM and Thermal on your Omni tanks now days, the 1k Laser DPS isn't as great after all. When i can tank any Amarr BS'es in my Tempest with this in low slot: 1x Large Armor Repairer II 1x Damage Control II 2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1x Gyrostabilizator II Then i think the DPS on Lasers are pretty low on an omni tank. But then, the Tempest have 20% better EM resist than a Megathron have. If you actually bothered to follow the discussion you might have noticed nobody but you is saying blasters suck just because lasers have a longer range. Heh, i guess your too busy trolling that you completely lost the reason why you where trolling in the first place. And please explain what the lowslots of your uberpest has to do with the actual discussion, other than to prove that "LOLOLOL U DONT UNDERSTAND U SUCK lol u nOOb" (because thats getting old you know).
Trader20	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:54:00 - [855] Edited by: Trader20 on 27/02/2009 23:55:29 Srry I fail at quoting.... 1. Blasters on BS need reworking as they are now a almost worthless system on TQ, lasers can easily compete at close range with the available targets BS have especially when you factor in single let alone multiple webs. 1: I think tracking is irrelevant in the pulse vs blaster case. Your main targets when using bs weapons is anything bigger then a bc and if a pulse's can't hit a target then a blaster will not be able to either. 2. The extra agility blaster ships have over laser ships is also irrelevant even when applied against unwebbed ships as BS (even the MOST agile BS) are just not agile enough compared to their peers to make even a slight difference let alone a large on in combat. 2. I agree with your point that agility is next to useless on a bs because of it's mass and the large blasters downfall is the bs's lack of speed. BS's take more time to close in on a target (duh) and this is why an increase in falloff would give blaster a chance to do some damage while closing in on it's target. 3. Rails tracking is so sucky that even a 50ms webbed BS can kite them at under 2km and their max dps even in perfect conditions a pathetic joke (578dps). 3. Yea rails should be saved for fleets and missions. 4. Cap while considered the "bane of lasers" is also the bane of blasters as well if not more so as they need to almost constantly burn their MWD to get into optimal range where they do very little more dps than lasers anyway. 4. An abaddon with 8 mega pulses firing (multi) with it's mwd off caps out in about 2.5 min. A hyp with 8 neutrons firing (antimatter) and it's mwd on is capped out in 2 min. So as long as the abaddon is in range (which with it's 15km optimal is often) his cap will last longer then the megas. Now the mega will rarely be in range but when he is and his mwd is off his cap will last for about 20 min. So again depends on the situation but the abaddon will have less cap problems in most pvp situatuion. (I did not factor in cap booster, nos/neus) 5. The single extra mid slot on the Hyperion does allow a extra web but considering the web stacking penalty and the fact that multiple ships with 1 web each work just as well as 1 ship with 2 webs each the benefit is negligible compared to the extra 40,000 ehp abaddons get. 5. Agree
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:00:00 - [856] Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 28/02/2009 00:05:07 I am not sure about the use of a single LAR fitted to a plate/eanm tank would help for GANG combat cos if the ship with it fitted was primaried by a hostile gang it could never rep the same amount of HP as a extra plate would give in the time it would take the gang to pop the targeted BS. A boost to optimal and a reduction in falloff to keep the max range the same or dmg along with a tracking buff could make blaster ships more effective in their role (that the web nerf hit hard) while giving them the ability to be more effective in gang situation, and while still not being as near as good in gang combat as laser BS they would at least be better than useless. I think that a increase to falloff would give blasters a increase in range and they are fine with the range they have more dmg at their longer available ranges. My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake.
NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:01:00 - [857] Edited by: NightmareX on 28/02/2009 00:05:16 Originally by: sAyArrrr Edited by: sAyArrrr on 27/02/2009 23:53:41 Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 27/02/2009 23:47:11 Saying Blasters are worthless only because Lasers have longer range on it's guns is the biggest joke someone can say. And because of the resists you have to EM and Thermal on your Omni tanks now days, the 1k Laser DPS isn't as great after all. When i can tank any Amarr BS'es in my Tempest with this in low slot: 1x Large Armor Repairer II 1x Damage Control II 2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1x Gyrostabilizator II Then i think the DPS on Lasers are pretty low on an omni tank. But then, the Tempest have 20% better EM resist than a Megathron have. If you actually bothered to follow the discussion you might have noticed nobody but you is saying blasters suck just because lasers have a longer range. Heh, i guess your too busy trolling that you completely lost the reason why you where trolling in the first place. And please explain what the lowslots of your uberpest has to do with the actual discussion, other than to prove that "LOLOLOL U DONT UNDERSTAND U SUCK lol u nOOb" (because thats getting old you know). Hey, i was only pointing out why lasers aren't that good or op when it's about doing DPS, even when it says uberomgawesome super duper much DPS in EFT. Even when Lasers have good tracking at range and have longer range than Blasters and Autocannons, it doesn't help when our omni tanks are making so Lasers are doing crap damage on omni tanks. And by that, things are more balanced. Because Blasters still does alot more DPS and melt omni tanked ships much much faster than Lasers ever can dream of. Do you have any problems with that?. Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise
Trader20	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:06:00 - [858] Nightmare the LAR belongs in ur cargohold or station for after your fleet is over and if you survived and need to rep.
sAyArrrr Minmatar Omyst Research	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:09:00 - [859] Edited by: sAyArrrr on 28/02/2009 00:10:47 Edited by: sAyArrrr on 28/02/2009 00:09:46 Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 28/02/2009 00:05:16 Originally by: sAyArrrr Edited by: sAyArrrr on 27/02/2009 23:53:41 Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 27/02/2009 23:47:11 Saying Blasters are worthless only because Lasers have longer range on it's guns is the biggest joke someone can say. And because of the resists you have to EM and Thermal on your Omni tanks now days, the 1k Laser DPS isn't as great after all. When i can tank any Amarr BS'es in my Tempest with this in low slot: 1x Large Armor Repairer II 1x Damage Control II 2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1x Gyrostabilizator II Then i think the DPS on Lasers are pretty low on an omni tank. But then, the Tempest have 20% better EM resist than a Megathron have. If you actually bothered to follow the discussion you might have noticed nobody but you is saying blasters suck just because lasers have a longer range. Heh, i guess your too busy trolling that you completely lost the reason why you where trolling in the first place. And please explain what the lowslots of your uberpest has to do with the actual discussion, other than to prove that "LOLOLOL U DONT UNDERSTAND U SUCK lol u nOOb" (because thats getting old you know). Hey, i was only pointing out why lasers aren't that good or op when it's about doing DPS, even when it says uberomgawesome super duper much DPS in EFT. Even when Lasers have good tracking at range and have longer range than Blasters and Autocannons, it doesn't help when our omni tanks are making so Lasers are doing crap damage on omni tanks. And by that, things are more balanced. Because Blasters still does alot more DPS and melt omni tanked ships much much faster than Lasers ever can dream of. Do you have any problems with that?. Did it ever occured to you that there is a world out there other than armor tanking ecm pests who pwn noobs on sisi? Now, if we assume every ship shieldtanks instead of armor tanks (like you like to do), how do lasers compare to other gunnery systems? (bolded/underlined the important part in case you might miss it)
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:11:00 - [860] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean So apparently rails > blasters No. Rails>blasters in a medium to large sized gang. Its your fault for picking blasters when you've got a bunch of BS in your fleet. Just as it would be your fault for flying a pulse Abaddon on a fleet op. Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean And it does not matter if its 2 or 1 ship with those webs especially in gang combat where virtually every ship has a web fitted.... In gang combat, people are less likely to fit webs than more. Quote: In BS gang combat that is nothing, its hardly a reload cycle for lasers let alone blasters ect ect Depends on how large the gang is, and no, its not nothing. Especially since you're not considering resistances. Quote: We have been over it and you wererc wrong, rails are awful in gang combat, and even at what they can do beams are much better if you compare them when used on the available ship types. No, you said it was wrong without examining the situation. In a medium sized gang, beams are certainly worse. They are worse for one particular reason. Lets see if you can figure it out. Quote: And the ships/systems with the massive optimal can push out 700+dps for the 45km/sec travel time or 900+ for the 15km/sec travel time. I have no clue what you're trying to say here, that lasers have a range advantage? Yea, we know that. Quote: Is it like fitting dual webs on your ship when the rest of you gang has at least one each as well...yup i think it is although it could also be referred to as pointless.. If everyone in your gang has a web and you aren't worried about losing them, fit an ECCM. Now, when the other enemy gang tries to jam you you can more easily shrug it off.

NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:11:00 - [861] Edited by: NightmareX on 28/02/2009 00:14:01 Originally by: sAyArrrr Now, if we assume every ship shieldtanks instead of armor tanks (like you like to do), how do lasers compare to other gunnery systems? (bolded the important part in case you might miss it) Against shield tanks, Lasers are much better. Yes i agree on that. But there are much much more armor tankers or ships with omni armor tanks than it's shield tankers anyways. And no, i'm not saying Blasters sucks at all. Where have you got that from?. I'm saying that Blasters are fine and don't need any boosts now. Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:13:00 - [862] Edited by: Goumindong on 28/02/2009 00:13:31 Originally by: sAyArrrr Now, if we assume every ship shieldtanks instead of armor tanks (like you like to do), how do lasers compare to other gunnery systems? And what weapons are those shield tanking ships fitting(and how much damage do they do at what distance and range)? You need to be complete to be make comparative analysis valuable. ed: Also, there are far more armor tanks, and far more ability to fill holes in a shield tank than with an armor tank. Originally by: Trader20 Nightmare the LAR belongs in ur cargohold or station for after your fleet is over and if you survived and need to rep. No, it doesn't. For solo/small gang work, repping > EHP. Nightmare is wrong a bout a lot of things, but he is right about active repping.
Traderboz	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:20:00 - [863] The problem with these arguments is that there are way more factors than either of you are considering, at least at one time. Thus, neither person is really looking at all possible situations (and not surprising, as there are so many). For instance, yes, resists are a factor, but you'd have to look at the average resistances of all likely targets (which counts both armor and shield tanked ships), incorporating common fits as well, and then you could see how much resistances actually help blasters. On the other hand, range is definitely a factor to consider, but it again isn't a simple comparison between the two weapon systems. If you warp in on top of your target, then the blasters are going to be tough to beat. If the target is 40km away, odds are the laser boat will be superior, as even if the BB MWD's into range, it will have fallen too far behind in DPS to catch up with the laser boat. I tend to agree with Nightmare though in the sense that I don't think BB's are useless and can be effective if used correctly. Still, I think there are some good arguments that lasers are stronger weapons in general. Some slight tweaking/boosts/whatever you want to call it for projectiles and blasters would be a good thing imo, but the emphasis should be on slight. TLDR, this is too complex a subject to get any meaningful discussion out of a back-and-forth argument where each person throws out one point per post. Then again, forums exist for pointless discussion, so I don't know what I'm complaining about.
Trader20	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:21:00 - [864] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 28/02/2009 00:13:31 Originally by: sAyArrrr Now, if we assume every ship shieldtanks instead of armor tanks (like you like to do), how do lasers compare to other gunnery systems? And what weapons are those shield tanking ships fitting(and how much damage do they do at what distance and range)? You need to be complete to be make comparative analysis valuable. ed: Also, there are far more armor tanks, and far more ability to fill holes in a shield tank than with an armor tank. Originally by: Trader20 Nightmare the LAR belongs in ur cargohold or station for after your fleet is over and if you survived and need to rep. No, it doesn't. For solo/small gang work, repping > EHP. Nightmare is wrong a bout a lot of things, but he is right about active repping. Keyword: FLEETS
sAyArrrr Minmatar Omyst Research	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:22:00 - [865] Edited by: sAyArrrr on 28/02/2009 00:22:50 Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: sAyArrrr Now, if we assume every ship shieldtanks instead of armor tanks (like you like to do), how do lasers compare to other gunnery systems? (bolded the important part in case you might miss it) Against shield tanks, Lasers are much better. Yes i agree on that. But there are much much more armor tankers or ships with omni tanks than it's shield tankers anyways. So the next step in the logical conclusion: Because lasers are best against shieltankers, a better choice in gangs because of the high range/verry good dps/good tracking, and about equal to armor since blasters (and ac's to some extend) lose alot of dps under normal conditions because of low optimal/mwding around (and falloff for ac's), we can conclude that lasers are in every possible way better than blasters. Wich is exactly what this thread is about, if you forgot about that. Really, the only thing you can argue about is about blasters being equal/better than lasers in a hypothetical 1vs1 situation, wich will never/almost never happen other than on SiSi. And since current gamemechanics force people to blob even more than before, a 1vs1 situation will almost never ever occur, and thus the whole blaster line is gimped for any real use in real TQ combat situations.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:25:00 - [866] Originally by: Goumindong And what weapons are those shield tanking ships fitting(and how much damage do they do at what distance and range)? Missiles proly as shield tanking tends to mostly be a caldari trait so any dmg type they feel like at 0-45km for torps and further for cruise.... My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake.
NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:27:00 - [867] Originally by: Trader20 Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 28/02/2009 00:14:01 Originally by: sAyArrrr Now, if we assume every ship shieldtanks instead of armor tanks (like you like to do), how do lasers compare to other gunnery systems? (bolded the important part in case you might miss it) Against shield tanks, Lasers are much better. Yes i agree on that. But there are much much more armor tankers or ships with omni armor tanks than it's shield tankers anyways. And no, i'm not saying Blasters sucks at all. Where have you got that from?. I'm saying that Blasters are fine and don't need any boosts now. Agreed, EM/Therm is a poor damage type to be dealing these days and I think ppl need to take this into consideration, the eft dps on pulses isn't hittin the targets armor ingame for anywhere near full damage. (neither are blasters but alot more goes through when dealing therm/kin) Yup, that's what i'm talking about. EFT warriors today are only looking at the DPS in EFT and think omg the Lasers must own because they have so good DPS and tracking outside of web range. Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise
Trader20	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:27:00 - [868] Edited by: Trader20 on 28/02/2009 00:28:38 Originally by: Traderboz The problem with these arguments is that there are way more factors than either of you are considering, at least at one time. Thus, neither person is really looking at all possible situations (and not surprising, as there are so many). For instance, yes, resists are a factor, but you'd have to look at the average resistances of all likely targets (which counts both armor and shield tanked ships), incorporating common fits as well, and then you could see how much resistances actually help blasters. On the other hand, range is definitely a factor to consider, but it again isn't a simple comparison between the two weapon systems. If you warp in on top of your target, then the blasters are going to be tough to beat. If the target is 40km away, odds are the laser boat will be superior, as even if the BB MWD's into range, it will have fallen too far behind in DPS to catch up with the laser boat. I tend to agree with Nightmare though in the sense that I don't think BB's are useless and can be effective if used correctly. Still, I think there are some good arguments that lasers are stronger weapons in general. Some slight tweaking/boosts/whatever you want to call it for projectiles and blasters would be a good thing imo, but the emphasis should be on slight. TLDR, this is too complex a subject to get any meaningful discussion out of a back-and-forth argument where each person throws out one point per post. Then again, forums exist for pointless discussion, so I don't know what I'm complaining about. Yes they're many factor: Range: pulses DPS: Blasters (factoring in res of armor tankers) More cap Usage: I'm giving this one to the blasters b/c of it's necessity to use a mwd. Reload: Pulses Skills: Same fttin on bonused ships: same (please don't put lasers on a mega ) Feel free to add/correct my list
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:33:00 - [869] Edited by: Goumindong on 28/02/2009 00:34:23 Originally by: Trader20 Keyword: FLEETS Keyword: this is a freaking discussion about blasters we aren't talking about sniping. Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: Goumindong And what weapons are those shield tanking ships fitting(and how much damage do they do at what distance and range)? Missiles proly as shield tanking tends to mostly be a caldari trait so any dmg type they feel like at 0-45km for torps and further for cruise.... And what type of damage do they do? And what are they vulnerable to? What can and can't they fit to be efficient?
Trader20	Posted - 2009.02.28 00:34:00 - [870] Edited by: Trader20 on 28/02/2009 00:34:18 Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Trader20 Keyword: FLEETS Keyword: this is a freaking discussion about blasters we aren't talking about sniping. my bad



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