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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1138
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 11:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez1wz4.jpg
If you want to know more... read all about it, go test and don't hesitate to leave your personal opinion after done. This is one of those moments when it just might be worth to do so. The blog forgets to mention thing or two.
Get |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
443
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 12:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez1wz4.jpg
That gave me a laugh, I like things that do stuff. WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
227
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 12:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Serge Bastana wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez1wz4.jpg
That gave me a laugh, I like things that do stuff.
made me laugh also..
just a shame it dosnt do as much as it promises to do CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
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SpaceSquirrels
278
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 14:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
I must be missing something. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1798
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 14:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Seems like despite huge advantages with the new system, some small bits of functionality need to be added here and there. Top that off with a liberal helping of people complaining because they can't use their clunky work arounds anymore. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
685
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 14:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
New build up now, I like the idea of the window and how it's intended to function when done - hoping for progress on the WIP. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1139
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 15:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Seems like despite huge advantages with the new system, some small bits of functionality need to be added here and there. Top that off with a liberal helping of people complaining because they can't use their clunky work arounds anymore. Pretty optimistic to call them bits small, but if that works for you who am I to say. I find the original idea of one window for everything and no real support for others being quite big "bit" myself.
This is in test server - yes. Dev blog is out - yes. Dev response to fundamental issues - none.
Read the entire comment thread... at least up to page 24 and you get the whole idea what this is about. I'm not whining here just to for whining. In fact I rather would do something else atm :) The details are all there.
Get |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1798
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 15:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Seems like despite huge advantages with the new system, some small bits of functionality need to be added here and there. Top that off with a liberal helping of people complaining because they can't use their clunky work arounds anymore. Pretty optimistic to call them bits small, but if that works for you who am I to say. I find the original idea of one window for everything and no real support for others being quite big "bit" myself. This is in test server - yes. Dev blog is out - yes. Dev response to fundamental issues - none. Read the entire comment thread... at least up to page 24 and you get the whole idea what this is about. I'm not whining here just to for whining. In fact I rather would do something else atm :) The details are all there.
I read it.
You can drag anything you like to the "tree" on the left to move things around.
Right click on the tree to open another window if you prefer would mean there isn't much left to complain about. Most of the rest are niche cases or center around wanting to do things in a somewhat eccentric way.
I stand by my original statement.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Thomas Kreshant
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
This is in test server - yes. Dev blog is out - yes. Dev response to fundamental issues - none.
It was the weekend, how about you cut them some slack?
They'd have come back and seen plenty of feedback to read so how about giving them some time to actually read and digest it before moaning they're not responding on their days off work. |
Blatant Forum Alt
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
156
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Oh God, why are they changing stuff? Why change?!? I can't cope with change! Make it stop, or I will spew butthurt on the forums until someone listens! Don't make me bring out THE CAPS LOCK!!!!111 I USED 1'S INSTEAD OF !'S, THATS HOW PISSED OFF I AM!!!!!1111!!ONE
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Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Dark Matter Coalition
1071
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
I read it.
You can drag anything you like to the "tree" on the left to move things around.
Shift click on the tree to open another window if you prefer means there isn't much left to complain about. Most of the rest are niche cases or center around wanting to do things in a somewhat eccentric way. For the vast majority of routine tasks this is much easier, only for some things does it require an extra click or two.
I stand by my original statement.
I agree with this.
Only things worth complaining about are just simple tweaks.
I LOVE the new filter system. I created a filter that shows all but cans so that I can hide the cans to prevent accidental repackaging of them.
I think the only thing I'd like to be added is so options for the "value" thingy. Lemme pick between universe average, regional average and regional max buy order or regional lowest sell order. The Drake is a Lie |
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CCP Arrow
C C P C C P Alliance
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones. CCP Arrow-á-á|-á Senior UX Designer-á|-á @CCP_Arrow |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6442
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Shift click on the tree to open another window if you prefer means there isn't much left to complain about. Yes there is, because the multiple-window functionality is broken. The inventory system isn't aware of the fact that you can have multiple windows so it has a nasty habit of resetting itself and make all those windows more of a chore than an aid. This is not a niche case GÇö it's every case for unopened containers.
Wanting to drag stuff from one place to the next while keeping both locations in view is not GÇ£eccentricGÇ¥ GÇö it's how you most efficiently handle multiple storage locations. What's eccentric is the new system's aptitude for breaking this kind of work flow because it wants to be a one-window system and thus cannot properly handle multiple windows.
There are nice bits and pieces, but anything that requires significant amounts of inventory manipulation is made much harder and requires far more clicks now than it did before. It has also lost much of its ability to set up a GÇ£work spaceGÇ¥ and have consistently appear and behave the same. It works as a framework for an inventory management system, but it is far from being one at the moment due to that multi-window unawareness. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
893
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome. |
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Blatant Forum Alt
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
156
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Shift click on the tree to open another window if you prefer means there isn't much left to complain about. Yes there is, because the multiple-window functionality is broken. The inventory system isn't aware of the fact that you can have multiple windows so it has a nasty habit of resetting itself and make all those windows more of a chore than an aid. This is not a niche case GÇö it's every case for unopened containers. Wanting to drag stuff from one place to the next while keeping both locations in view is not GÇ£eccentricGÇ¥ GÇö it's how you most efficiently handle multiple storage locations. What's eccentric is the new system's aptitude for breaking this kind of work flow because it wants to be a one-window system and thus cannot properly handle multiple windows. There are nice bits and pieces, but anything that requires significant amounts of inventory manipulation is made much harder and requires far more clicks now than it did before. It has also lost much of its ability to set up a GÇ£work spaceGÇ¥ and have consistently appear and behave the same. It works as a framework for an inventory management system, but it is far from being one at the moment due to that multi-window unawareness. /serious post Then this is a problem with implementation, rather than design concepts, and most of the whining I've read has been about the change to a unified window - hence the troll post up there ^ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6442
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Blatant Forum Alt wrote:Then this is a problem with implementation, rather than design concepts, and most of the whining I've read has been about the change to a unified window - hence the troll post up there ^ Sure, I can agree with that. The problem is that a lot of the implementation issues seem like they are direct effects of the attempt to move towards that unified window. Somewhere along the line, the thought that maybe some things shouldn't be fully unified seems to have been overlooked.
The whines about the unification is how that design concept imposes itself onto a lot of use cases that outright call for multiple windows. It's kind of the design version of GÇ£categorical statements are categorically falseGÇ¥.
I can fully understand the exuberance in putting everything they could into this new system, but now they need to step back and see what about the old system was actually useful (even more useful than the new one, in some cases), and ensure that those pre-existing good solutions are not overwritten with bad ones. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1140
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones. Thank you.
And seriously - I'd really rather be doing something else. Only real reason why am I in forums again is to make people aware about the many not so kewl things which were not mentioned in dev blogs. You guys had wonderful intentions but left to the task assuming that all people would rather use one window than many windows. How ever as pointed in official thread, there are many real in game occasions where one window just won't handle the task you want it to do. Sure - it may do it for some like mr ranger above, or it may do it for majority of casual players. It still doesn't change the fact that it would be huge nerf and inconvenience to great many.
If you address the fact, make a firm statement to do something about it and be kind enough to leave blue post about it - at least I'm done with this whiny part again and carry on to more fun tasks like running in a forest naked only with tinfoil hat on.
...and yes that picture was intended to have some comedy attached to it - I'm not yet ready to stab you guys even soundwave may have told you so.
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1142
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 00:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome. Indeed - at least we won't be barbecuing at the "door" this time
Get |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 14:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
So dev responses go here now? Please CCP, roll these changes into the Assets window and leave my UI alone! I really really really really cannot emphasize enough how much I do not like using that unified inventory window for everything. I have made several long posts on the subject where such posts belong. I shall assume that someone who effects this project has read them. |
Mythrandier
Dracos Dozen Eve Engineering
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 15:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Serge Bastana wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez1wz4.jpg
That gave me a laugh, I like things that do stuff.
Stuff you say? Hmmmm, Intriguing. |
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
1582
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 15:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Blatant Forum Alt wrote:Then this is a problem with implementation, rather than design concepts, and most of the whining I've read has been about the change to a unified window - hence the troll post up there ^ Sure, I can agree with that. The problem is that a lot of the implementation issues seem like they are direct effects of the attempt to move towards that unified window. Somewhere along the line, the thought that maybe some things shouldn't be fully unified seems to have been overlooked. The whines about the unification is how that design concept imposes itself onto a lot of use cases that outright call for multiple windows. It's kind of the design version of GÇ£categorical statements are categorically falseGÇ¥. I can fully understand the exuberance in putting everything they could into this new system, but now they need to step back and see what about the old system was actually useful (even more useful than the new one, in some cases), and ensure that those pre-existing good solutions are not overwritten with bad ones.
Yeah, I completely agree with this. I think that the new inventory UI was a great deal and all, but completely breaking previous functionality was a mistake. If they simply return the previous ability to have multiple windows that remember their position and 99% of people will be happy (and most of the remaining 1% just don't want anything to change no matter what).
The issue isn't the new inventory, it's the removal of the ability to do it the old way at all (see Incarna and ship spinning for an example of how that worked out last time). |
Testerxnot Sheepherder
Treasures Collectors Solar Citizens
243
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 15:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
> realizes agreeing to tippia post > what have I become?! > puts gun to head > *BOOM* |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 15:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Testerxnot Sheepherder wrote:> realizes agreeing to tippia post > what have I become?! > puts gun to head > *BOOM*
I really wish people like you would have the common decency to lay down on several large sheets of plastic first. Think of the cleanup crew! |
Ilnaurk Sithdogron
Crunchy Crunchy Peregrine Nation
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 15:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
So far, I really like the look of this. For the things I'm doing, my life will get so much easier without having to mess around with three or four different windows. Thank you very much, CCP! |
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
233
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 15:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
Testerxnot Sheepherder wrote:> realizes agreeing to tippia post > what have I become?! > puts gun to head > *BOOM*
realized I am in the same situation.
But, Tippia is spot-on here
Nothing clever at this time. |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 16:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP. I don't have the luxury of looking over this and deciding if this is a game that I want to get into and spend my time on. I have already invested some 9 years with you guys, I have wasted time, and I am invested. I have been doing things a certain way for 9 years, and you are about to force me to abandon all my current workflows. If this was a brand new game that I had never played, I would probably not get into it because of the unified inventory alone. Do not implement changes that interrupt business as usual. You are not a new game, this is not a time to reinvent the wheel and throw it out there on everyone's cars. People have developed habits and procedures that work and serve them well. You cant just kill that off now without serious repercussions. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1510
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 16:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Only thing i want to know is ... ... will pods with GCC finally become legal targets ?
Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1157
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 17:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
Now here is a story what will continue and here if the proof for it.
This is becoming to be a bad joke. I am sorry that so many guys got boot from CCP. I am also sorry that they apparently were not the correct ones.
Get |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
102
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 18:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
I personally like the new inventory. I dont understand the hate. |
Xolve
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
995
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 18:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
Just Alter wrote:I personally like the new inventory. I dont understand the hate.
Can Carriers have a similar window?
Fuel Bay/Drone Bay/Corp Hangar/Ship Maintenance Array...
I like nice and organized set ups. It helps me keep track of my 300 ships and 15000 some odd unique items. It would be better still if we could create tabs and stuff (that can actually fit ships inside of them) to separate different doctrine ships and such easily. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
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Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
102
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 18:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Also i personally think inferno is going to be a pretty good expansion, despite everything (they had to make lots of hard choices lately). |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4195
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 18:19:00 -
[32] - Quote
Are you guys reconsidering the whole "can only drop stuff into corp hangars you're roled for" thing? "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
170
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 18:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Tippia wrote:Blatant Forum Alt wrote:Then this is a problem with implementation, rather than design concepts, and most of the whining I've read has been about the change to a unified window - hence the troll post up there ^ Sure, I can agree with that. The problem is that a lot of the implementation issues seem like they are direct effects of the attempt to move towards that unified window. Somewhere along the line, the thought that maybe some things shouldn't be fully unified seems to have been overlooked. The whines about the unification is how that design concept imposes itself onto a lot of use cases that outright call for multiple windows. It's kind of the design version of GÇ£categorical statements are categorically falseGÇ¥. I can fully understand the exuberance in putting everything they could into this new system, but now they need to step back and see what about the old system was actually useful (even more useful than the new one, in some cases), and ensure that those pre-existing good solutions are not overwritten with bad ones. Yeah, I completely agree with this. I think that the new inventory UI was a great deal and all, but completely breaking previous functionality was a mistake. If they simply return the previous ability to have multiple windows that remember their position and 99% of people will be happy (and most of the remaining 1% just don't want anything to change no matter what). The issue isn't the new inventory, it's the removal of the ability to do it the old way at all (see Incarna and ship spinning for an example of how that worked out last time).
Oh I think it is WONDERFUL. It makes my choices so simple.
Wow did *bleep* like this in Cata. and a short period of time later came the dancing pandas.
This makes my choices very clear.
GW2 it is. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1837
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 18:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Shift click on the tree to open another window if you prefer means there isn't much left to complain about. Yes there is, because the multiple-window functionality is broken. The inventory system isn't aware of the fact that you can have multiple windows so it has a nasty habit of resetting itself and make all those windows more of a chore than an aid. This is not a niche case GÇö it's every case for unopened containers. Wanting to drag stuff from one place to the next while keeping both locations in view is not GÇ£eccentricGÇ¥ GÇö it's how you most efficiently handle multiple storage locations. What's eccentric is the new system's aptitude for breaking this kind of work flow because it wants to be a one-window system and thus cannot properly handle multiple windows. There are nice bits and pieces, but anything that requires significant amounts of inventory manipulation is made much harder and requires far more clicks now than it did before. It has also lost much of its ability to set up a GÇ£work spaceGÇ¥ and have consistently appear and behave the same. It works as a framework for an inventory management system, but it is far from being one at the moment due to that multi-window unawareness.
Of course I revisit this thread while not able to access the game to check a few things.
Edit: i was going to give a few observations and ask a few questions for clarification, but then I came to my senses and will wait till I can check a few things myself tonight (rather than clogging things up in here). When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1158
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 18:56:00 -
[35] - Quote
Just Alter wrote:Also i personally think inferno is going to be a pretty good expansion, despite everything (they had to make lots of hard choices lately). Yes inferno shall be great expansion as long they postpone the WIN part to the point where it is ready for tranq. Without proper working multi window environment (and I'm not talking about shift+clicking now) it will be disaster.
This post gives some hope, but it also indicates that they still really don't agree and are ready to push forward with unification even without working fix.
This should not be the case. Big things can maybe be fixed afterwards, but that is not what tranq is for.
Get |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1626
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 19:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
There are always idiots that will complain about a broken feature on the TEST server. A whole week and a half before the launch of the expansion no less. Constructive feedback on an issue is one thing...bitching like a little priss about it is another.
Personally I have had no issues with the new inventory system on the test server. Things changed a little but there was nothing I couldn't do that I needed to. I am sure they can add some tweaks and updates to it later as needed. It is MUCH better than the current system.
Winferno is going to be absolutely awesome and pure WIN. Props to CCP!
Unfortunately you cannot please everybody. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor Federal Consensus Outreach
863
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 19:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
A thread in which a member of draketrain complains about something they don't like, and claim it's going to ruin EVE if it isn't fixed.
I feel like it's Groundhog Day. Mane 614
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
446
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 19:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:There are always idiots that will complain about a broken feature on the TEST server. A whole week and a half before the launch of the expansion no less. Constructive feedback on an issue is one thing...bitching like a little priss about it is another.
you must be new here. EVE is the only game that I can think of where bugs went unfixed for so long that they became features. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
674
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 20:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
The window works fine, if all of you learned how it works you wouldn't be whining and complaining.
I've been testing things as they release the, spending hours a day on the test server trying to see how the new things will fit together for the new mods.
To facilitate this I've been putting together dozens of ships at a time, my hangar is FILLED with ****, cans, cap ships, ships, items, drugs, drones, what have you, i just tossed it all in there, not a care or separation in the world.
I have had absolutely 0 problems once I learned the HOW of the windows functions. Some people have complained that it removed the ability to have multiple windows open, and no, you're wrong, it removed the NEED not the ability.
If you play around with it, you will find that window simplified just about everything, and for ever job that got one click longer, a right click menu vanish.
If you don't think less right click menus in eve is a good thing then theres honestly no way to make sense to you.
EDIT: Holy christ not to mention corp hangars, **** me those are 10000x easier to deal with now. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1838
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 20:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:The window works fine, if all of you learned how it works you wouldn't be whining and complaining.
I've been testing things as they release the, spending hours a day on the test server trying to see how the new things will fit together for the new mods.
To facilitate this I've been putting together dozens of ships at a time, my hangar is FILLED with ****, cans, cap ships, ships, items, drugs, drones, what have you, i just tossed it all in there, not a care or separation in the world.
I have had absolutely 0 problems once I learned the HOW of the windows functions. Some people have complained that it removed the ability to have multiple windows open, and no, you're wrong, it removed the NEED not the ability.
If you play around with it, you will find that window simplified just about everything, and for ever job that got one click longer, a right click menu vanish.
If you don't think less right click menus in eve is a good thing then theres honestly no way to make sense to you.
EDIT: Holy christ not to mention corp hangars, **** me those are 10000x easier to deal with now.
From my experiences so far on the test server, this is spot on.
I'll dig into a few specific cases discussed here tonight, and I'm sure there are some valid tweaks that should be made. .. but many of these posts seem to come from people that either haven't actually tried it, or don't understand how to use a simple tree menu properly.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
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Flamewave
Crimson Moon Society
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 20:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:There are always idiots that will complain about a broken feature on the TEST server. I agree. We should wait until it's a broken feature on TQ before saying anything at all.
There's some use cases that could be improved with this system and I hope these issues are addressed before this thing goes live. I don't want to trash it too bad - the things it does right it does really right - but there's still room for improvement. Some things ISK can't buy. For everything else, there's Jita.
YouTube |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1630
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 20:22:00 -
[42] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:There are always idiots that will complain about a broken feature on the TEST server. A whole week and a half before the launch of the expansion no less. Constructive feedback on an issue is one thing...bitching like a little priss about it is another. you must be new here. EVE is the only game that I can think of where bugs went unfixed for so long that they became features. Me new huh? I guess so...I have been playing since beta. While this is my main it is not my only or my first account by any means. But no...I am not new. I just think for myself and don't ride the bandwagon on every little thing. I also recognize that despite what the ignorant wannabe programmers say about CCP, the devs at CCP are very good at what they do. But hey...if you can find another game like EVE that is coded better and does everything EVE does I will gladly join you in playing it. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1838
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 20:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
Flamewave wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:There are always idiots that will complain about a broken feature on the TEST server. I agree. We should wait until it's a broken feature on TQ before saying anything at all. There's some use cases that could be improved with this system and I hope these issues are addressed before this thing goes live. I don't want to trash it too bad - the things it does right it does really right - but there's still room for improvement.
Constructive feedback = good. Very, very good.
I think his post was more directed at those making vocal, vague, obscure complaints... accusing the developers of stupidity... or simply offering opinion on something they obviously didn't actually work with (or at least work with long enough to fully understand). When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1159
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 20:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
Constructive feedback = good. Very, very good.
I think his post was more directed at those making vocal, vague, obscure complaints... accusing the developers of stupidity... or simply offering opinion on something they obviously didn't actually work with (or at least work with long enough to fully understand).
Yea - thankfully they are not stupid http://i45.tinypic.com/2yunfb6.jpg
Get |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1630
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 20:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Flamewave wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:There are always idiots that will complain about a broken feature on the TEST server. I agree. We should wait until it's a broken feature on TQ before saying anything at all. There's some use cases that could be improved with this system and I hope these issues are addressed before this thing goes live. I don't want to trash it too bad - the things it does right it does really right - but there's still room for improvement. Constructive feedback = good. Very, very good. I think his post was more directed at those making vocal, vague, obscure complaints... accusing the developers of stupidity... or simply offering opinion on something they obviously didn't actually work with (or at least work with long enough to fully understand). Yes...constructive feedback is good. Complaining and insulting the devs is not.
Ranger 1 wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:The window works fine, if all of you learned how it works you wouldn't be whining and complaining.
I've been testing things as they release the, spending hours a day on the test server trying to see how the new things will fit together for the new mods.
To facilitate this I've been putting together dozens of ships at a time, my hangar is FILLED with ****, cans, cap ships, ships, items, drugs, drones, what have you, i just tossed it all in there, not a care or separation in the world.
I have had absolutely 0 problems once I learned the HOW of the windows functions. Some people have complained that it removed the ability to have multiple windows open, and no, you're wrong, it removed the NEED not the ability.
If you play around with it, you will find that window simplified just about everything, and for ever job that got one click longer, a right click menu vanish.
If you don't think less right click menus in eve is a good thing then theres honestly no way to make sense to you.
EDIT: Holy christ not to mention corp hangars, **** me those are 10000x easier to deal with now. From my experiences so far on the test server, this is spot on. I'll dig into a few specific cases discussed here tonight, and I'm sure there are some valid tweaks that should be made. .. but many of these posts seem to come from people that either haven't actually tried it, or don't understand how to use a simple tree menu properly. Yup...this has been my experience as well. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! |
Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 20:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
New inventory system is sweet, you can make it look like the old one too, just shift click to open stuff in their own windows. Dunno what Grey's problem is. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1161
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 21:02:00 -
[47] - Quote
So would you think :)
Get |
Tarsus Zateki
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
527
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 21:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
This is a fantastic change and I can't wait to start using it. Even more I can't wait to troll the threads filled with mindless pubbie-drivel complaining about this because they're afraid of change. CCP, please never stop giving pubbie filth things to whine about.
Here's a freebie, drag your Direct3D 9 rendering engine out into the street and shoot it. Force everyone to start using a hot new Direct3D 10/11 renderer and tell everyone using Windows XP to get with the times grandpa! |
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
139
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 05:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
I am adapting to the new window thing. It is really different, but follows the modern use of windows. I will just have to get over it
The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
48
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 05:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
you have got to be kidding me... |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6581
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 06:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:The window works fine, if all of you learned how it works you wouldn't be whining and complaining. I've learned how it works, that's why I know it's not working fine and it's why I'm whining and complaining.
Quote:I have had absolutely 0 problems once I learned the HOW of the windows functions. Ok, here's a trivial use-case that for you that happens several thousand times a day: you are running a mission. You have your cargo hold open to keep an eye on your ammo. Now you want to loot a wreck you just created. How does the windows (plural) function when you click GÇ£openGÇ£ on that wreck?
Quote:Some people have complained that it removed the ability to have multiple windows open, and no, you're wrong, it removed the NEED not the ability. No, people have been complaining that it removes the efficiency of having multiple windows, and yes, you still need that ability because a single window is never as efficient.
You still need to have two windows open to see two item locations at once. You still need to have both open at once to have a good overview of what sits where GÇö clicking back and forth is a hell of a lot less efficient. The problem is that, since multi-window awareness is gone, trying to use multiple windows doesn't work since opening up new containers reset all windows. Moreover, you cannot preset what inventories open where so you cannot set up a consistent workspace (be it single or multiple-window, and again, the latter is more efficient).
The new inventory system is like the decade-old Windows Explorer. The decade-old Windows Explorer isGǪ wellGǪ decade-old GÇö aka outdated and not particularly modern. A modern file manager uses multiple panes due to the vast increases in efficiency that come with having that kind of setup. Yes, it's more modern than the old inventory system (which was more like Windows 3.1 or System 7), but that doesn't mean it's always better GÇö it's inability to properly handle multiple locations is a huge problem. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Aggressive Nutmeg
235
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 06:40:00 -
[52] - Quote
Losing the ability to have multiple windows worries me.
I'm still annoyed at the introduction of the 'Loot all' button. It might appeal to the point-and-click generation but it is a lot slower than CTRL-A, Drag when you're crazily clearing dozens of wrecks.
And then there's the removal of text descriptions in the neocom...
I start to see why Eve feels a bit beta despite being in development for 9 years. Changes made for changes sake? Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1346
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 07:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:Losing the ability to have multiple windows worries me. I'm still annoyed at the introduction of the 'Loot all' button. It might appeal to the point-and-click generation but it is a lot slower than CTRL-A, Drag when you're crazily clearing dozens of wrecks.
Just to stir discussion a little, I find clicking "loot all" is much faster than CTRL+A & Drag. The longest wait while looting is the time that it takes the now empty container window to close. Of course having two windows open means looting can happen much faster than the case of one window with a tree. People designing these interfaces need to understand Fitz's Law.
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
677
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 07:48:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tippia wrote:I've learned how it works.........
....Ok, here's a trivial use-case that for you that happens several thousand times a day: you are running a mission. You have your cargo hold open to keep an eye on your ammo. Now you want to loot a wreck you just created. How does the windows (plural) function when you click GÇ£openGÇ£ on that wreck?
See at first i was like Yea Tippia knows whats up look he says so....oh...and the very next thing says he does in fact not understand how the new window interface works, as what you're describing is literally **** simple to figure out.
I mean, bitching that its changing is one thing but you're literally all crying about things that are actually super intuitive and easy to figure out if you just take the time to tinker with the window.
EDIT: Also please stop saying you can't open multiple windows, you can, its easy, its like, really easy, christ do you people even try or did you all just go OH GOD IT CHANGED |
Aggressive Nutmeg
235
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 07:50:00 -
[55] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:Losing the ability to have multiple windows worries me. I'm still annoyed at the introduction of the 'Loot all' button. It might appeal to the point-and-click generation but it is a lot slower than CTRL-A, Drag when you're crazily clearing dozens of wrecks. Just to stir discussion a little, I find clicking "loot all" is much faster than CTRL+A & Drag. The longest wait while looting is the time that it takes the now empty container window to close. Of course having two windows open means looting can happen much faster than the case of one window with a tree. People designing these interfaces need to understand Fitz's Law. It's interesting you say that because from my experience there is a definite lag in both the looting action and especially the closing of the container window. The old drag-and-drop method saw the loot transferred and the empty container window closed instantaneously. Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6587
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 08:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:See at first i was like Yea Tippia knows whats up look he says so....oh...and the very next thing says he does in fact not understand how the new window interface works, as what you're describing is literally **** simple to figure out. GǪso then you can answer the question: how do the windows handle this use case?
It's not a question of GÇ£figure out" GÇö I know what it does. Do you?
Quote:Also please stop saying you can't open multiple windows. Good thing that I didn't do that, then. In fact, goid thing that the issue I'm talking about requires you to open multiple windows. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Aron Croup
Incompatible Protocol Bittervet Mercenaries
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 08:20:00 -
[57] - Quote
"Nothing to see here? Move along?"
Seriously, it's a new UI. There are as many ways to use a UI as there are people using it - and it will be impossible to accommodate everyone's particular wishes in the first run. Does that mean CCP should stop developing new technology or no longer attempt to improve on the old UI?
Certainly not. It just means you have to be patient and politely point out that you think there's a problem with the new system so it can be fixed in the iterative process.
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Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1162
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 09:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: EDIT: Also please stop saying you can't open multiple windows, you can, its easy, its like, really easy, christ do you people even try or did you all just go OH GOD IT CHANGED
Thankfully brightest devs got also brightest friends. Where would this world go without them.
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1174
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 10:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
Aron Croup wrote:"Nothing to see here? Move along?"
Seriously, it's a new UI. There are as many ways to use a UI as there are people using it - and it will be impossible to accommodate everyone's particular wishes in the first run. Does that mean CCP should stop developing new technology or no longer attempt to improve on the old UI?
Certainly not. It just means you have to be patient and politely point out that you think there's a problem with the new system so it can be fixed in the iterative process.
Read and understand what you're reading then come back here explaining how to be patient and how system can be fixed in the iterative process.
Fact is that from recent UI related things only the ones made by CCP Puncturis and friends have been properly finished and ironed out. They did listen the feedback, address it - and fix it. They also went extra mile by adding/fixing stuff what wasn't in the original plan but helped to archive the goal to deliver properly functioning user experience. Why do you think that the team has made so many new friends lately and the interaction in their threads is so much calmer and nicer?
The problem is not in the people who whine about valid issues. The problem is that constant whining is needed to make things happen in 1st place. Personally I'm willing to talk nicely few days but when the issues are overlooked and it becomes clear that the nail isn't quite sinking in, my patience gets lost very rapidly. I don't want to see more unfinished junk in tranq. Fixing bugs is one thing, but tranq is not test server. Without proper multi window support unified inventory is not ready for game play.
If people have to spend week in forum convincing small group of devs that there is a problem, then there is a problem. All the issues and flaws have been written to at least 3 different threads and they have been explained in great detail. The information is there. Tippia has been very kind and written more than enough replies to enlighten any lost soul and most people who have studied the case will stand firmly behind all of those (and I'm not saying that Tippia's posts are the only one worth reading there - they are just easiest to understand).
This is not how things should be progressing - this particular dev team is efficiently ruining the work of others who are doing excellent work for excellent expansion. Some serious internal discussions should be on going at CCP as we speak. Get the priorities straight to these guys. They are not the end users and their vision should adapt to theirs who are.
Get |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
56
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 15:52:00 -
[60] - Quote
CCP: This is happening, just accept it.
sounds like what most people hear right before getting raped, and I don't want to be raped. Unless its by Zooey Deschanel, then its good r@pe. BUT THIS IS NOT GOOD R@PE! |
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
452
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 19:10:00 -
[61] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Grimpak wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:There are always idiots that will complain about a broken feature on the TEST server. A whole week and a half before the launch of the expansion no less. Constructive feedback on an issue is one thing...bitching like a little priss about it is another. you must be new here. EVE is the only game that I can think of where bugs went unfixed for so long that they became features. Me new huh? I guess so...I have been playing since beta. While this is my main it is not my only or my first account by any means. But no...I am not new. I just think for myself and don't ride the bandwagon on every little thing. I also recognize that despite what the ignorant wannabe programmers say about CCP, the devs at CCP are very good at what they do. But hey...if you can find another game like EVE that is coded better and does everything EVE does I will gladly join you in playing it.
well... yeah! but...
well, you should've known better!
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
678
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 02:24:00 -
[62] - Quote
Tippia wrote: In fact, good thing that the issue I'm talking about requires you to open multiple windows.
What, no it doesn't.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6671
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 04:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Tippia wrote:In fact, good thing that the issue I'm talking about requires you to open multiple windows. What, no it doesn't. Yes it does. Read it again, carefully:
You have your cargo hold open to keep an eye on your ammo. Now you want to loot a wreck you just created. How do the windows (plural) function when you click GÇ£openGÇ£ on that wreck? (ok, so I had a number error in the original GÇö fixed now).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1196
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 12:36:00 -
[64] - Quote
Here is one nice video which Tippia has created. Should open some eyes if someone still feels sleepy :)
Get |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 19:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
|
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1214
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 11:26:00 -
[66] - Quote
Looks like people are finally starting to wake up and actually understand why the "window" is going to be next "door".
edit: ...and oh yea - Tippia was kind enough to write some more stuff. Would recommend reading through.
Get |
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CCP Arrow
C C P C C P Alliance
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 11:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Hey folks.
I just wanted to restate what we said in the Dev blog for the Unified Inventory that we wanted to get feedback from those that use SiSi in order to address problems that would occur. We intended on following heavily up on the feedback, doing as much as possible before launch as well as doing even further iterations and fixes in the upcoming release. Team Game of Drones is committed to a new methodology of using the principals of User Centered Design, where the User Experience of our players drives our design decisions.
Not only did we collect all feedback from the Forums, personal posts, Twitter comments and other sources but we took the issues many of you like Grey Stormshadow, Tippia and other have been pointing out and created a User Testing plan which we facilitated last week. In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.
Once we had collected all the date from the tests we created stories and design updates which have either already been submitted to the next SiSi build, or we are actively working on or have been put into our backlog of work stories which we will address as priority stories before we start working on other features for next release.
I'm sorry if people that have given us feedback have felt we didn't listen in the past few days, I hope this post has re-instated that we actually listen and act accordingly and have simply been doing nothing else since the release of our blog. In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed.
Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us. CCP Arrow-á-á|-á Senior UX Designer-á|-á @CCP_Arrow |
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Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
244
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 11:58:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey folks.
I just wanted to restate what we said in the Dev blog for the Unified Inventory that we wanted to get feedback from those that use SiSi in order to address problems that would occur. We intended on following heavily up on the feedback, doing as much as possible before launch as well as doing even further iterations and fixes in the upcoming release. Team Game of Drones is committed to a new methodology of using the principals of User Centered Design, where the User Experience of our players drives our design decisions.
Not only did we collect all feedback from the Forums, personal posts, Twitter comments and other sources but we took the issues many of you like Grey Stormshadow, Tippia and other have been pointing out and created a User Testing plan which we facilitated last week. In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.
Once we had collected all the date from the tests we created stories and design updates which have either already been submitted to the next SiSi build, or we are actively working on or have been put into our backlog of work stories which we will address as priority stories before we start working on other features for next release.
I'm sorry if people that have given us feedback have felt we didn't listen in the past few days, I hope this post has re-instated that we actually listen and act accordingly and have simply been doing nothing else since the release of our blog. In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed.
Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us.
the feedback has mostly been make this inventory the new asset manager but leave us with the many inventorys we have currently( ships, items, corp hangers etc etc). but your blindly going ahead with this one window for all business dispite all of the feedback. we need multiple windows and locations, not shift clicking stuff OMG when can i get a pic here
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Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1222
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 20:18:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey folks. I'm sorry if people that have given us feedback have felt we didn't listen in the past few days, I hope this post has re-instated that we actually listen and act accordingly and have simply been doing nothing else since the release of our blog. In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed.
It is very nice to hear from you and I believe now that you want to listen to us.
However I find it still bit unclear do you understand the importance of true multi window support (as in allowing us to open any amount of "extra" windows which will remember their size/position between sessions), are we going to get that functionality back and when does that happen.
I do understand that you don't want to answer this question if the answer is "never going to happen", but still - if that is the case you have to cough it out eventually... and if you will - player base will never accept the answer and you will be committing action which results to door version 2.0 (or in this case window 1.0). So this can not be what you're planning?
I really hope that I'm wrong while trying to figure out what is going on behind the curtain here.
Get |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 21:17:00 -
[70] - Quote
"because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem"
Nice |
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Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1222
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 21:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:"because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem"
Nice Arrow never said that...
Arrow said "We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found."
It means that they don't do user tests because not believing us, but because they want to see the problems with their own eyes to solve the problems with the solutions they see the best.
There is no need to twist Arrows words, even the unclear issues with unified inventory are important and need to be addressed fully.
Get |
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 21:27:00 -
[72] - Quote
Yet again a dev response that pays lip service to 'player feedback' but is still clearly aimed at letting us know that this is getting implemented regardless of what we want. Joypad user interface for us guys, thats what this is about.
we are losing functionality for some sort of half assed "user design'" bs - what does that even mean? Its like some mantra that we keep hearing Tippia says, look guys this doesnt work CCP says User centred design, we say - umm not sure we want this, like the way my inventory works now thanks CCP says "user centred design".
SERIOUSLY LISTEN, but listen in a way that actually gives us some hope that this can be stopped or made optional, all we are hearing is thanks for your input, your getting it anyway. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1902
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 22:11:00 -
[73] - Quote
That video was probably one of the very best ways to get across the issues clearly on a rather difficult to describe issue.
I will say that the setup that Tippia uses is a bit eccentric compared to what many EVE players do on a daily basis (absolutely no offense intended, it does what you want it to do), however a setup like this should be possible.
So basically the main issues are settings/locations changing every time there is a session change, an update bug, and the behavior of windows you open for objects outside of your immediate ownership (wrecks/cans/etc.) could be made easier to deal with.
Sounds like these issues should be manageable, or an equitable alternative method created.
I have no idea what constraints CCP is under to roll this system out this release, it sounds like it would be very difficult for them NOT to roll it out at this point. Considering the amount of work, detail, questions, and effort they have expended on getting our feedback and begin addressing them, I don't have much doubt that if there are still issues come release day they will be ironed out shortly thereafter.
People still insisting that they are ignoring the issue are leaving the realm of well founded criticism behind and venturing deep into the territory of bullheaded stubborness. It's not going to kill anyone if we have to wait for some tweaks to be released to get things perfect for you again... provided we don't have to wait too long.
For those that have done such a good job of providing true constructive, detailed feedback, I say bravo gentlemen. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1225
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 22:18:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: So basically the main issues are settings/locations changing every time there is a session change, an update bug, and the behavior of windows you open for objects outside of your immediate ownership (wrecks/cans/etc.) could be made easier to deal with.
Pretty much - everything else is trivial compared to these.
Ranger 1 wrote: Sounds like these issues should be manageable, or an equitable alternative method created.
I have no idea what constraints CCP is under to roll this system out this release, it sounds like it would be very difficult for them NOT to roll it out at this point. Considering the amount of work, detail, questions, and effort they have expended on getting our feedback and begin addressing them, I don't have much doubt that if there are still issues come release day they will be ironed out shortly thereafter.
People still insisting that they are ignoring the issue are leaving the realm of well founded criticism behind and venturing deep into the territory of bullheaded stubborness. It's not going to kill anyone if we have to wait for some tweaks to be released to get things perfect for you again... provided we don't have to wait too long.
Yea... the actual problem isn't in the waiting. There just has not been clear answer what they are going (or not going) to do (read: fix).
All I'm asking is clear statement that they are actually bringing the proper multi window support back. That is an issue which has not been answered yet even it has been the primary problem from day 1.
Get |
Blue Harrier
79
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 22:32:00 -
[75] - Quote
The daft part is when you think about it, the very few things it would make easier are the things left off the inventory.
I would have loved it if the Assets, Wallet and Market had been on it and they just left all the other right click items such as the cargo hold, cargo container, ore hold, maintenance bay, activate ship etc left as they are now on TQ.
But if anyone did click on the message on the D3 splash screen at login and actually went to the Inferno site you will find the UI is already displayed, integrated, done and dusted. Sorry guys, What You See Is What You Get . Unless they pull something really special out of the hat between now and Monday (3 programming days and counting ).
"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982. |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 23:00:00 -
[76] - Quote
I think this problem partly stems from the way CCP is giving out information. Behind the scenes a great master plan has been created, however, The dev blogs only give us glimpses of what is to come. I have a feeling that this new UI is part of some master plan, and is intertwined into it in a way that it must be pushed out with the rest of it.
That is a problem.
CCP should be including us on the design of the master plan, not just the new individual cogs and gears they are planning. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1226
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 23:28:00 -
[77] - Quote
Maul555 wrote: CCP should be including us on the design of the master plan, not just the new individual cogs and gears they are planning.
Well not really... but they shouldn't be using the master plan as excuse if some sub part of it doesn't work right. If this has something to do with dust - fine. If eve client has to be worse because of that - it's not fine.
And no - I couldn't know if you have brought the original unified inventory code from dust. All I know it that it has been extremely difficult to get actual answer to proper multi window issue. Will there be support for such or no? It is not difficult question.
Get |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
691
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 01:57:00 -
[78] - Quote
Holy christ that video from Tippia is infuriating, why does he keep closing the tree, do you not get that the tree is what makes the ease of navigation, that simply clicking on a particular tree marker erases the need to clutter your screen with windows, you don't NEED to have that **** open all over the place like that, its all neatly bundled into one package.
The filters allow you to go one farther and only see the parts you need most at any one time like, its baffling watching him do that over and over when its just like, leave the tree open and stop screwing around.
I can sympathize in most instances where players have called something wrong or bad but in this instance it just looks like players begging for a new UI and then complaining when that new UI comes with an altered (more functional less cluttered) functionality that they need to adjust to. |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 02:02:00 -
[79] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Holy christ that video from Tippia is infuriating, why does he keep closing the tree, do you not get that the tree is what makes the ease of navigation, that simply clicking on a particular tree marker erases the need to clutter your screen with windows, you don't NEED to have that **** open all over the place like that, its all neatly bundled into one package.
The filters allow you to go one farther and only see the parts you need most at any one time like, its baffling watching him do that over and over when its just like, leave the tree open and stop screwing around.
I can sympathize in most instances where players have called something wrong or bad but in this instance it just looks like players begging for a new UI and then complaining when that new UI comes with an altered (more functional less cluttered) functionality that they need to adjust to.
So which Dev alt are you?
and btw... I DON'T WANT TO USE A FRACKING TREE!
Eve is not a file system. Eve is not an operating system. My cargo hold is not a folder. My ship is not a folder. This entire UI FARKS with the visual representation of things in their physical location, which is how my brain farking works. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
691
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 03:47:00 -
[80] - Quote
Maul555 wrote: This is wrong.
You just made a gigantic post about how your brain is wired wrong and can't perform basic human multi tasking and then claim that the new system is somehow wrong....
|
|
Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
133
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 03:55:00 -
[81] - Quote
Can't hear a goddamn thing. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6850
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 04:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Holy christ that video from Tippia is infuriating, why does he keep closing the tree Because it's a waste of space and doesn't help me with any of the things I need to do. It only helps me in opening new windows which I shouldn't have to do to begin with. Yes, I can use the tree view to switch inventories and thus have it replace the current tabbed setup I use, but it's a very bloated and cumbersome way of doing that GÇö I have to scroll around to get the inventory I want rather than have immediate access to it.
The tree view is handy in the personal and corp hangar, and would be useful in the corp and personal asset view (which it doesn't support) and S&I interface (which it doesn't support). It serves next to no purpose for small and temporary inventories such as cargo holds and cans.
Quote:that simply clicking on a particular tree marker erases the need to clutter your screen with windows, you don't NEED to have that **** open all over the place like that, its all neatly bundled into one package. The tree view doesn't let me see multiple locations at the same time. It only lets me click between them, which is the exact opposite of what I want. I have better things to do with my mouse and keyboard than fiddle with the inventory screen GÇö it should just sit there and show me what I want it to show me. So no, I still NEED to have all those windows open, and they're not all over the place GÇö they're neatly bundled in one cornerGǪ which is another thing the new UI doesn't let me do. In fact, it's the new UI that makes the windows appear all over the place rather than neatly bundled.
What you're saying is that it would be a good thing if they combined the overview and the HUD into two different tabs in the same window: it reduces clutter and if you want to see what's around you in space, you can always click to show it; if you want to see how your ship is doing, you can click to show that instead. Because no-one ever wants (or needs) to see both at once, right?
Quote:The filters allow you to go one farther and only see the parts you need most at any one time like, its baffling watching him do that over and over when its just like, leave the tree open and stop screwing around. No, the filters don't solve any of the problems because it's still only applied to one inventory at a time. If I want to have two or more inventories open to monitor both at the same time I still need multiple windows to do so. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Honor Accelerando
One Point 0
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 04:42:00 -
[83] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones.
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud,
you laughed out loud 'd out loud. Okay. |
Honor Accelerando
One Point 0
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 04:56:00 -
[84] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:CCP. I don't have the luxury of looking over this and deciding if this is a game that I want to get into and spend my time on. I have already invested some 9 years with you guys, I have wasted time, and I am invested. I have been doing things a certain way for 9 years, and you are about to force me to abandon all my current workflows. If this was a brand new game that I had never played, I would probably not get into it because of the unified inventory alone. Do not implement changes that interrupt business as usual. You are not a new game, this is not a time to reinvent the wheel and throw it out there on everyone's cars. People have developed habits and procedures that work and serve them well. You cant just kill that off now without serious repercussions.
Good luck getting them to listen to common sense like this. And I admire peoples willingness to give CCP the benefit of the doubt after all these years of obvious pants on head stupidity. I mean seriously, do you think CCP really gives a flying crepe suzette what the loyal paying customer thinks? If that was ever the case we wouldn't have got MTor WiS in the first place. We only got the hangar back when I & many others cancelled all our accounts & they began to worry about paying for expensive Car leases & Pilates instructors. |
Croniac
Thunder Chickens
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 05:14:00 -
[85] - Quote
Honor Accelerando wrote: I mean seriously, do you think CCP really gives a flying crepe suzette what the loyal paying customer thinks? If that was ever the case we wouldn't have got WiS in the first place.
We didn't get WiS... We got WiC (Walking in Closets).... If you got WiS, I want to see some screenshots, because that sounds way better than what the rest of us got. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
125
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 05:54:00 -
[86] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome.
Not with the craptastic wardec changes ive pieced together from the tidbits of information thrown around.
Having every war dec turn into a counter gank isn't "awesome".
Allowing a large corporation/alliance to have a cost shield isn't "awesome".
Allowing war dec targets to leave corporation instantly while trapping the aggressing corporation into a potential merc+target counter gank isn't "awesome".
My 5 man corp war decs your 50 man corp for you talking smack on the forums. You leave the defending corp and our corp gets stuck with the target and its ally. Lovely.
Dev enthusiasm doesn't change it. Its failure incoming. Just like Incarna. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3791
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 06:25:00 -
[87] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome. Not with the craptastic wardec changes ive pieced together from the tidbits of information thrown around. Having every war dec turn into a counter gank isn't "awesome". Allowing a large corporation/alliance to have a cost shield isn't "awesome". Allowing war dec targets to leave corporation instantly while trapping the aggressing corporation into a potential merc+target counter gank isn't "awesome". My 5 man corp war decs your 50 man corp for you talking smack on the forums. You leave the defending corp and our corp gets stuck with the target and its ally. Lovely. Dev enthusiasm doesn't change it. Its failure incoming. Just like Incarna.
So wardecs will be crappy because you might get more than you bargained for?
boo hoo, too bad, don't dec people if you're scared they might do something about it Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
125
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 06:33:00 -
[88] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome. Not with the craptastic wardec changes ive pieced together from the tidbits of information thrown around. Having every war dec turn into a counter gank isn't "awesome". Allowing a large corporation/alliance to have a cost shield isn't "awesome". Allowing war dec targets to leave corporation instantly while trapping the aggressing corporation into a potential merc+target counter gank isn't "awesome". My 5 man corp war decs your 50 man corp for you talking smack on the forums. You leave the defending corp and our corp gets stuck with the target and its ally. Lovely. Dev enthusiasm doesn't change it. Its failure incoming. Just like Incarna. So wardecs will be crappy because you might get more than you bargained for? boo hoo, too bad, don't dec people if you're scared they might do something about it
The key word in your fanboy smugness is might. There isn't going to be a might. Its a each and everytime you try and focus agression to one corp you are automatically going to deal with two. You also neglect to address any other point, im sure its convenient. |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
218
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 06:43:00 -
[89] - Quote
Quote: Allowing war dec targets to leave corporation instantly while trapping the aggressing corporation into a potential merc+target counter gank isn't "awesome".
Targets? Characters could always leave a wardec corp instantly unless they had roles, then they get a 24 hour cooldown. This isn't changing. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3794
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 06:45:00 -
[90] - Quote
I don't care if it's 2 or 50. You're the one who gets to choose whether there's going to be a war or not. In fact you said it yourself "wardecs will become counter-ganks". You want a war dec to be a gank. Now you're complaining that you might get ganked back, and for some reason you're expecting sympathy or something?
No.
So sorry an element of risk will be involved in your game. Thank you for playing, you huge coward. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
|
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 06:46:00 -
[91] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:Quote: Allowing war dec targets to leave corporation instantly while trapping the aggressing corporation into a potential merc+target counter gank isn't "awesome".
Targets? Characters could always leave a wardec corp instantly unless they had roles, then they get a 24 hour cooldown. This isn't changing.
Now they also get a bad rep right? which is more than what it is now.
The new system is not perfect people, but it is sure as hell better than what we got now. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6852
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 06:53:00 -
[92] - Quote
The only real issue with the wardec change is that the pricing structure is still wrong-headed because it goes against the stated goal of getting rid of the sillier war avoidance strategies. It also risks rendering some of the additions DOA since wars will still just be a matter of beating up the small guy (who won't have the cash to buy mercs). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
125
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 06:58:00 -
[93] - Quote
Tippia wrote:The only real issue with the wardec change is that the pricing structure is still wrong-headed because it goes against the stated goal of getting rid of the sillier war avoidance strategies. It also risks rendering some of the additions DOA since wars will still just be a matter of beating up the small guy (who won't have the cash to buy mercs).
Yeah and the fact that without an attacker war doesn't occur and yet the attacker is villified and gets to face a defender plus ally. But the expansion is supposed to bring new horrors of war! Yeah, right. Its a reduction in war to cater to the same batch of people they want to sell monocles to. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6852
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 07:00:00 -
[94] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Yeah and the fact that without an attacker war doesn't occur and yet the attacker is villified and gets to face a defender plus ally. Nah. That's not much of a problem. That's just turning a wardec into an investment risk calculationGǪ and again, with the current pricing structure, it won't be used anyway.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
181
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 07:08:00 -
[95] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
The key word in your fanboy smugness is "might". There isn't going to be a might. Its a each and everytime you try and focus aggression to one corp you are automatically going to deal with two. You also neglect to address any other point, im sure its convenient.
That's how wars work in real life though. You declare war on someone, they bring their allies in to fight for them. Using them as a war to grief a specific person was always a bit suspect.
|
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
125
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 07:12:00 -
[96] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:
The key word in your fanboy smugness is "might". There isn't going to be a might. Its a each and everytime you try and focus aggression to one corp you are automatically going to deal with two. You also neglect to address any other point, im sure its convenient.
That's how wars work in real life though. You declare war on someone, they bring their allies in to fight for them. Using them as a war to grief a specific person was always a bit suspect.
Curiously. I remember the United States bringing in the Brits, the Australians and 3 Polish guys to attack Iraq. If were going to bring in real life it would seem I have a point. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6852
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 07:20:00 -
[97] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Curiously. I remember the United States bringing in the Brits, the Australians and 3 Polish guys to attack Iraq. If were going to bring in real life it would seem I have a point. That's ok. I can create alliances for you GÇö 100M a pop.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
333
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 07:23:00 -
[98] - Quote
Winferno is coming is it? CCP could learn a lot from Game of Thrones.
However, by the gods old and new Icelanders it is your duty to keep CCP designers the **** away from the Game of Thrones production team when they shoot in Iceland, because they may ruin the series.
GoT Producer: Hey I was talking to these Icelandic game developers, they had they had some great ideas for the show.
GoT Director: Really, like what?
GoT Producer: Well for one, wars should be really expensive.
GoT Director: Umm I'm sure they are..
GoT Producer: Right, but there should be really big fees to declare a war. Basically only the Lanisters could afford it,
GoT Director: Ok, but what's stopping Stanis and Rob from attacking anyway?
GoT Producer: That was another great idea, we make every Gold Cloak like Ser Barristan Selmy in his prime riding on a ******* dragon, basically they beat the crap out of anyone in the Seven Kingdoms that attacks without paying the War fee.
GoT Director: Pay who?
GoT Producer: Umm I don't know. Little Finger I guess.
GoT Director: I really don't think George will go with this, we we're meant to be following the books remember.
GoT Producer: Yeah but these guys said it won't matter, they said no one cares about the lore, so just make it up as you go. Doesn't even need to make sense, so long as people get the Isk?
GoT Director: Get the what?
GoT Producer: The Isk, that's the currency they use in Qarth right? It's like gold.
GoT Director: So we should wrap here and head back to Croatia so we can shoot more stuff in Qarth?
GoT Producer: No need, we'll use the White Walkers, we'll have have them make Incursions South of the Wall.
GoT Director: Won't everyone die? Where's the Isk in that?
GoT Producer: This is the best part, we just make White Walkers really dumb like the zombie guys we used in season one, won't be hard for folks to outsmart them, Plus there's the Gold Cloaks to keep everyone in line.
GoT Director: Oh ok, the Gold Cloaks will kill the White Walkers.
GoT Producer: No, just people that attack others in the Seven Kingdoms without paying Little Finger, not the White Walkers.
GoT Director: hmm ok... but tell me where is this Isk?
GoT Producer: Little finger will pay people huge amounts of Isk for killing the White Walkers.
GoT Director: Ok that kind of makes sense. So you think this will up our ratings?
GoT Producer: Icelandic Game Developers swear by it. They said the key is to make your world only seem hardcore and real, but bellow the surface it should be carebear.
GoT Director: So we should ditch HBO for the cartoon network?
GoT Producer: I don't think that's what they meant... More H+íkarl?
GoT Director: **** no, just some more Brenniv+¡n. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
181
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 07:24:00 -
[99] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote: It comes down to this. All attackers are being viewed as unjust and deserving of more risk while all defenders are being viewed as noble and deserving of every ease of execution that can be given. Every attacker is also being treated as more skilled or greater in number and every defender as smaller or less competent.
Why else would you declare war on someone if you didn't think you were better than them? |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
125
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 07:24:00 -
[100] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Curiously. I remember the United States bringing in the Brits, the Australians and 3 Polish guys to attack Iraq. If were going to bring in real life it would seem I have a point. That's ok. I can create alliances for you GÇö 100M a pop.
I appreciate that Tippia. Im just being argumentative. I too can create alliances though im not sure about the cost to do so. I did train the skills however. |
|
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
127
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 07:25:00 -
[101] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome.
Devs shitposting about crappy updates is win?
Looking to stamp out apiphobia in my lifetime..... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6852
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 07:26:00 -
[102] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:I appreciate that Tippia. Im just being argumentative. I too can create alliances though im not sure about the cost to do so. I did train the skills however. 1bnGǪ the 100M is just me trying to fleece you for the service.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
127
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 07:31:00 -
[103] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote: It comes down to this. All attackers are being viewed as unjust and deserving of more risk while all defenders are being viewed as noble and deserving of every ease of execution that can be given. Every attacker is also being treated as more skilled or greater in number and every defender as smaller or less competent.
Why else would you declare war on someone if you didn't think you were better than them?
Well lets start with VersaEx. At one time a 45-50 man Russian Corp. These indignant twats had the audacity to tell my corpmate he owes them 250 mil for suicide ganking a hulk of theirs. Outraged by this unjust blackmail we counter offered them to live in peace for a sum of 500 million. They refused.
5billion isk in losses for them and 50% of their corp members having (from 45 to 22) quit we retracted the war having felt the injustice settled.
Thats just one injustice from EVE shennanigans. Tell me what would you have done but honorably declare war on those tyrants?
A 45 man corp demanding a 5 man (at the time) corp to pay that extortion? War I tell ya was necessary.
Now they want to give these guys a free ally? Where's the justice? |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
127
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 07:38:00 -
[104] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:I appreciate that Tippia. Im just being argumentative. I too can create alliances though im not sure about the cost to do so. I did train the skills however. 1bnGǪ the 100M is just me trying to fleece you for the service.
I don't considerate it a fleece. Ive contemplated sending you isk gifts for each wonderful post you make on these boards but i'd go broke doing it and someone of your intellect isn't in need of cash anyway. I figure eventually someone will try you in game one day for voiceing your opinion and ill have the pleasure of joining you in combat. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 08:34:00 -
[105] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Takseen wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:
The key word in your fanboy smugness is "might". There isn't going to be a might. Its a each and everytime you try and focus aggression to one corp you are automatically going to deal with two. You also neglect to address any other point, im sure its convenient.
That's how wars work in real life though. You declare war on someone, they bring their allies in to fight for them. Using them as a war to grief a specific person was always a bit suspect. Curiously, I remember the United States bringing in the Brits, the Australians and 3 Polish guys to attack Iraq. If were going to bring in real life it would seem I have a point. It comes down to this. All attackers are being viewed as unjust and deserving of more risk while all defenders are being viewed as noble and deserving of every ease of execution that can be given. Every attacker is also being treated as more skilled or greater in number and every defender as smaller or less competent. For something thats promoting war it seems to make some very nuanced assumptions that will stagnate alot of high sec conflict.
You forgot the 1 danish guy. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 08:42:00 -
[106] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Takseen wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote: It comes down to this. All attackers are being viewed as unjust and deserving of more risk while all defenders are being viewed as noble and deserving of every ease of execution that can be given. Every attacker is also being treated as more skilled or greater in number and every defender as smaller or less competent.
Why else would you declare war on someone if you didn't think you were better than them? Well lets start with VersaEx. At one time a 45-50 man Russian Corp. These indignant twats had the audacity to tell my corpmate he owes them 250 mil for suicide ganking a hulk of theirs. Outraged by this unjust blackmail we counter offered them to live in peace for a sum of 500 million. They refused. 5billion isk in losses for them and 50% of their corp members having (from 45 to 22) quit we retracted the war having felt the injustice settled. Thats just one injustice from EVE shennanigans. Tell me what would you have done but honorably declare war on those tyrants? A 45 man corp demanding a 5 man (at the time) corp to pay that extortion? War I tell ya was necessary. Now they want to give these guys a free ally? Where's the justice?
The ally is not free and what stops you from attacking with more than a 5man corp? In reality, even the ISK sink dec on goons is not that much, if you declare war on them you should expect to pay A LOT more and not have an issue with it.
You know, like how it works now pretty much.
all I see is a better system and hopefully a way for wars to escalate further and I think it might even create more wars, yeah!
anyway, I think the bigger issue now is, can wardecc be more meaningful than now and what this expansion will bring. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
664
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 09:24:00 -
[107] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Takseen wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote: It comes down to this. All attackers are being viewed as unjust and deserving of more risk while all defenders are being viewed as noble and deserving of every ease of execution that can be given. Every attacker is also being treated as more skilled or greater in number and every defender as smaller or less competent.
Why else would you declare war on someone if you didn't think you were better than them? Well lets start with VersaEx. At one time a 45-50 man Russian Corp. These indignant twats had the audacity to tell my corpmate he owes them 250 mil for suicide ganking a hulk of theirs. Outraged by this unjust blackmail we counter offered them to live in peace for a sum of 500 million. They refused. 5billion isk in losses for them and 50% of their corp members having (from 45 to 22) quit we retracted the war having felt the injustice settled. Thats just one injustice from EVE shennanigans. Tell me what would you have done but honorably declare war on those tyrants? A 45 man corp demanding a 5 man (at the time) corp to pay that extortion? War I tell ya was necessary. Now they want to give these guys a free ally? Where's the justice?
Whats stopping current corps that are war dec from paying someone to war dec you and defend them? I mean right now on TQ.
Isn't just adding a formal interface to something corps already do to defend themselves? And it's not free...
Also as the attacking corp, you could pay someone or ask someone to war dec the defending corp with you. Right? I mean, why not? Am I missing something? |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
664
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 09:31:00 -
[108] - Quote
Tippia wrote:The only real issue with the wardec change is that the pricing structure is still wrong-headed because it goes against the stated goal of getting rid of the sillier war avoidance strategies. It also risks rendering some of the additions DOA since wars will still just be a matter of beating up the small guy (who won't have the cash to buy mercs).
As a member of Huang for years, we always helped out people who were too small to deal with war decs. Oh wait, we didn't follow your exactly version of eve is suppose to be played. Sorry.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3797
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 09:37:00 -
[109] - Quote
The real problem with wardecs remains though: there's no real reason to fight in hi-sec. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1907
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 14:24:00 -
[110] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:The real problem with wardecs remains though: there's no real reason to fight in hi-sec.
... and rarely reason to spend the ISK to do a war dec if you are based (and primarily fighting) in Null. That's why I think for Sov to officially change hands a war dec should need to be involved. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3802
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 14:31:00 -
[111] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Malcanis wrote:The real problem with wardecs remains though: there's no real reason to fight in hi-sec. ... and rarely reason to spend the ISK to do a war dec if you are based (and primarily fighting) in Null. That's why I think for Sov to officially change hands a war dec should need to be involved.
The only law in null is player law. That's the whole point of it. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1907
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 14:35:00 -
[112] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Holy christ that video from Tippia is infuriating, why does he keep closing the tree Because it's a waste of space and doesn't help me with any of the things I need to do. It only helps me in opening new windows which I shouldn't have to do to begin with. Yes, I can use the tree view to switch inventories and thus have it replace the current tabbed setup I use, but it's a very bloated and cumbersome way of doing that GÇö I have to scroll around to get the inventory I want rather than have immediate access to it. The tree view is handy in the personal and corp hangar, and would be useful in the corp and personal asset view (which it doesn't support) and S&I interface (which it doesn't support). It serves next to no purpose for small and temporary inventories such as cargo holds and cans. Quote:that simply clicking on a particular tree marker erases the need to clutter your screen with windows, you don't NEED to have that **** open all over the place like that, its all neatly bundled into one package. The tree view doesn't let me see multiple locations at the same time. It only lets me click between them, which is the exact opposite of what I want. I have better things to do with my mouse and keyboard than fiddle with the inventory screen GÇö it should just sit there and show me what I want it to show me. So no, I still NEED to have all those windows open, and they're not all over the place GÇö they're neatly bundled in one cornerGǪ which is another thing the new UI doesn't let me do. In fact, it's the new UI that makes the windows appear all over the place rather than neatly bundled. What you're saying is that it would be a good thing if they combined the overview and the HUD into two different tabs in the same window: it reduces clutter and if you want to see what's around you in space, you can always click to show it; if you want to see how your ship is doing, you can click to show that instead. Because no-one ever wants (or needs) to see both at once, right? Quote:The filters allow you to go one farther and only see the parts you need most at any one time like, its baffling watching him do that over and over when its just like, leave the tree open and stop screwing around. No, the filters don't solve any of the problems because it's still only applied to one inventory at a time. If I want to have two or more inventories open to monitor both at the same time I still need multiple windows to do so.
While I understand what you are trying to do and say, I think his point was that often you would insist on dragging from an open window to an open window instead of simply dragging to the tree.
Example: When you dock and are sorting your loot out of your cargo hold. All you need have open is your cargo hold. Filter things however you like and simply drag the items to the appropriate listings in the tree. All of your sorting is done from one window, with far less mouse movement back and forth across your screen than dragging from one window to various other windows. The tree is right next to the items you are working with.
All that extra mouse movement needs to be done because you don't leave the tree open so that you can sort, drag, and drop on the hangers (etc.) listed there. In other words the tree isn't just there to allow you to easily find and open other hangers/containers... it's there to provide one spot (immediately adjacent to where your mouse will be) to drag your items to when sorting. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1907
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 14:47:00 -
[113] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Malcanis wrote:The real problem with wardecs remains though: there's no real reason to fight in hi-sec. ... and rarely reason to spend the ISK to do a war dec if you are based (and primarily fighting) in Null. That's why I think for Sov to officially change hands a war dec should need to be involved. The only law in null is player law. That's the whole point of it.
I agree, but even organizations far removed from what most would concider civilization tend to make a formal declaration of war when doing more than just raiding. However in EVE there has been little in the game mechanics to simulate/encourage this so far outside of high sec.
The killmail system and it's trappings is an effort to make it easier for people to see for themselves just how a conflict is going (or ended up), but I think part of the sorting of that information in game is going to end up being directly tied to war decs... and the system to officially have contractural terms tied to merc contracts is going to be tied to that as well.
I'm all for the freedom to do things your own way in Null, but I have no problem with making war decs a "desireable" part of the process if there are advantageous game mechanics that can be attached to it. That, and if large sums of ISK are involved, there needs to be a reason to pay those sums... there needs to be an advantage involved. In high sec, it keeps Concord off your back. In Null you gain nothing for your money spent other than the ability to more easily hit any foolish shipping they may be doing (outside of a neutral alt corp) if you catch them in Empire.
Just saying there needs to be a bit more involved if you want Null sec entities to actually use the system, because right now they have no need to. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1230
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 14:48:00 -
[114] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: Example: When you dock and are sorting your loot out of your cargo hold. All you need have open is your cargo hold. Filter things however you like and simply drag the items to the appropriate listings in the tree. All of your sorting is done from one window, with far less mouse movement back and forth across your screen than dragging from one window to various other windows. The tree is right next to the items you are working with.
All that extra mouse movement needs to be done because you don't leave the tree open so that you can sort, drag, and drop on the hangers (etc.) listed there. In other words the tree isn't just there to allow you to easily find and open other hangers/containers... it's there to provide one spot (immediately adjacent to where your mouse will be) to drag your items to when sorting.
...but in many cases dropping items to tree eventually means that you have to be aware what and how much is in the destination folder already. Having 2 windows shows all the relevant information immediately and makes such item transfers much easier.
Then there is also the problem that you need to scroll the tree all the time and it is rather easy to accidentally drop stuff to wrong folder. This can be rather annoying specially in cases where your stuff end up to corp hangars you don't have withdrawal access to.
Get |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1907
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 15:23:00 -
[115] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Example: When you dock and are sorting your loot out of your cargo hold. All you need have open is your cargo hold. Filter things however you like and simply drag the items to the appropriate listings in the tree. All of your sorting is done from one window, with far less mouse movement back and forth across your screen than dragging from one window to various other windows. The tree is right next to the items you are working with.
All that extra mouse movement needs to be done because you don't leave the tree open so that you can sort, drag, and drop on the hangers (etc.) listed there. In other words the tree isn't just there to allow you to easily find and open other hangers/containers... it's there to provide one spot (immediately adjacent to where your mouse will be) to drag your items to when sorting.
...but in many cases dropping items to tree eventually means that you have to be aware what and how much is in the destination folder already. Having 2 windows shows all the relevant information immediately and makes such item transfers much easier. Then there is also the problem that you need to scroll the tree all the time and it is rather easy to accidentally drop stuff to wrong folder. This can be rather annoying specially in cases where your stuff end up to corp hangars you don't have withdrawal access to.
Completely understandable, and many people find keeping things straight mentally is easier when things are in consistant and seperate locations on their screen.
I don't see anything wrong with having multiple windows open for reference, but the actual draging and dropping (sorting) would much more easily be done from the main window (the one you happen to be currently working on) to the tree. Thus the other posters comments about his insistance on closing the tree being counter productive.
The issues with the other windows updating properlly, and perhaps some minor tweaks to the physical layout of the tree are certainly valid concerns that should be easy to rectify.
I will make one point that is near and dear to my heart.
If you make it so that your inventory window(s) can be dragged to another monitor, outside of your EVE window, you will make people pretty much universally happy.
One of the main problems with having multiple windows open for reference all the time (as Tippia does) is it leaves very little space for actually playing the game. Being able to move those windows to another monitor would be a boon to many people, and even people that play on a single montior in windowed mode would probably like the option to put all chat/inventory type items to the side away from their main play area. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
127
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 15:36:00 -
[116] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Takseen wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote: It comes down to this. All attackers are being viewed as unjust and deserving of more risk while all defenders are being viewed as noble and deserving of every ease of execution that can be given. Every attacker is also being treated as more skilled or greater in number and every defender as smaller or less competent.
Why else would you declare war on someone if you didn't think you were better than them? Well lets start with VersaEx. At one time a 45-50 man Russian Corp. These indignant twats had the audacity to tell my corpmate he owes them 250 mil for suicide ganking a hulk of theirs. Outraged by this unjust blackmail we counter offered them to live in peace for a sum of 500 million. They refused. 5billion isk in losses for them and 50% of their corp members having (from 45 to 22) quit we retracted the war having felt the injustice settled. Thats just one injustice from EVE shennanigans. Tell me what would you have done but honorably declare war on those tyrants? A 45 man corp demanding a 5 man (at the time) corp to pay that extortion? War I tell ya was necessary. Now they want to give these guys a free ally? Where's the justice? Whats stopping current corps that are war dec from paying someone to war dec you and defend them? I mean right now on TQ. Isn't just adding a formal interface to something corps already do to defend themselves? And it's not free... Also as the attacking corp, you could pay someone or ask someone to war dec the defending corp with you. Right? I mean, why not? Am I missing something?
Ease of execution. The simplicity of having a onesided interface. Some corps will inevitably scour the contracts looking for each and every war they can join and outnumber the aggressor.
And thats the point I believe. To make war so risky of a calculation that only the largest bother with it. I suppose its the dulling of high sec so more will go live out in null. Which will fail because two problems of Null havent and cannot be solved. The first being blind-corner gate camp with bubbles (usually at null entrances) and peoples tendency to not want to live under a worthless dictatorship while enduring a logistics nightmare.
And yes as an attacker you could pay a second corp to war dec with you, but you aren't getting a interface with a few clicks to do so. And now its going to be a requirement. But you get the old style way of doing it, by manually looking for one. Why bother? |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1231
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 12:39:00 -
[117] - Quote
Today's unified inventory build looks much better. when you open "extra" windows in station they now remember their positions and size. They still don't reopen when you re-enter station after undocking, but still it is major improvement. I'm starting to have real faith that they actually might be able to make it usable before the Inferno launch. Just one big step remaining really - other stuff is rather trivial.
Some really good work there.
Get |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 13:04:00 -
[118] - Quote
Chimp takes a month to learn how to use a drawer, you decide to make his life easier and give him a box. Chimp goes mad. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 13:06:00 -
[119] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez1wz4.jpg If you want to know more... read all about it, go test and don't hesitate to leave your personal opinion after done. This is one of those moments when it just might be worth to do so. The blog forgets to mention thing or two.
Thx, just got a good laugh rl.
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Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:23:00 -
[120] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Flamewave wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:There are always idiots that will complain about a broken feature on the TEST server. I agree. We should wait until it's a broken feature on TQ before saying anything at all. There's some use cases that could be improved with this system and I hope these issues are addressed before this thing goes live. I don't want to trash it too bad - the things it does right it does really right - but there's still room for improvement. Constructive feedback = good. Very, very good. I think his post was more directed at those making vocal, vague, obscure complaints... accusing the developers of stupidity... or simply offering opinion on something they obviously didn't actually work with (or at least work with long enough to fully understand).
where is the constructive feed back? he is just cautiously patting the devs on the back, he said it needs work, but doesn't have brains to have an idea of what, or the balls to say what he thinks.
The new system has some nice features, but it breaks so much usability. It has to remember what window it is on and it has to remember where it was. Every window, like it does now, or its a step backwards.
I'm also not happy with the wasted space at the top, if there is one thing this ui needs less of, its wasted space. let us collapse the search field / view change icons, or make them collapse with the useless treeveiw. |
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Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:26:00 -
[121] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Tippia wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Holy christ that video from Tippia is infuriating, why does he keep closing the tree Because it's a waste of space and doesn't help me with any of the things I need to do. It only helps me in opening new windows which I shouldn't have to do to begin with. Yes, I can use the tree view to switch inventories and thus have it replace the current tabbed setup I use, but it's a very bloated and cumbersome way of doing that GÇö I have to scroll around to get the inventory I want rather than have immediate access to it. The tree view is handy in the personal and corp hangar, and would be useful in the corp and personal asset view (which it doesn't support) and S&I interface (which it doesn't support). It serves next to no purpose for small and temporary inventories such as cargo holds and cans. Quote:that simply clicking on a particular tree marker erases the need to clutter your screen with windows, you don't NEED to have that **** open all over the place like that, its all neatly bundled into one package. The tree view doesn't let me see multiple locations at the same time. It only lets me click between them, which is the exact opposite of what I want. I have better things to do with my mouse and keyboard than fiddle with the inventory screen GÇö it should just sit there and show me what I want it to show me. So no, I still NEED to have all those windows open, and they're not all over the place GÇö they're neatly bundled in one cornerGǪ which is another thing the new UI doesn't let me do. In fact, it's the new UI that makes the windows appear all over the place rather than neatly bundled. What you're saying is that it would be a good thing if they combined the overview and the HUD into two different tabs in the same window: it reduces clutter and if you want to see what's around you in space, you can always click to show it; if you want to see how your ship is doing, you can click to show that instead. Because no-one ever wants (or needs) to see both at once, right? Quote:The filters allow you to go one farther and only see the parts you need most at any one time like, its baffling watching him do that over and over when its just like, leave the tree open and stop screwing around. No, the filters don't solve any of the problems because it's still only applied to one inventory at a time. If I want to have two or more inventories open to monitor both at the same time I still need multiple windows to do so. While I understand what you are trying to do and say, I think his point was that often you would insist on dragging from an open window to an open window instead of simply dragging to the tree. Example: When you dock and are sorting your loot out of your cargo hold. All you need have open is your cargo hold. Filter things however you like and simply drag the items to the appropriate listings in the tree. All of your sorting is done from one window, with far less mouse movement back and forth across your screen than dragging from one window to various other windows. The tree is right next to the items you are working with. All that extra mouse movement needs to be done because you don't leave the tree open so that you can sort, drag, and drop on the hangers (etc.) listed there. In other words the tree isn't just there to allow you to easily find and open other hangers/containers... it's there to provide one spot (immediately adjacent to where your mouse will be) to drag your items to when sorting. By insisting on closing it, you remove half of the functionality you would otherwise have. Functionality that would, to a large degree remove the need for the other open windows.
Because those tiny mouse targets that keep changing the display of the inventory window when you hover over them for half a second are so easy to use.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6923
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:40:00 -
[122] - Quote
Huh. Missed out on this thread for a whileGǪRanger 1 wrote:While I understand what you are trying to do and say, I think his point was that often you would insist on dragging from an open window to an open window instead of simply dragging to the tree. The problem is that doing so provides no useful information about where you're dragging stuff to. Yes, if I want to just dump a ton of crap into some particular location without any regard for what's already there, I can use the tree GÇö if I want to be precise in what ends up where, I can'tGǪ
GǪand I have to fiddle with it to show the right location, as opposed to it being there instantly and reliably. GǪand I have to go and fiddle with it some more if I want to clean up after the transfer (or, as mentioned above, if I am a bit hesitant in my transfer). GǪand the tree view is a smaller drop target.
As for the filters, most of that can already be done in a single mouse-click already by having a proper list view set up.
Quote:All that extra mouse movement needs to be done because you don't leave the tree open so that you can sort, drag, and drop on the hangers (etc.) listed there. In other words the tree isn't just there to allow you to easily find and open other hangers/containers... it's there to provide one spot (immediately adjacent to where your mouse will be) to drag your items to when sorting. But that's already a non-issue if multiple windows work properly. The reason I insist on closing it (for most windows) is that I have GÇö or should have GÇö the same functionality without the tree view and without taking up extra space that I can use to see more items. I do not agree that the tree view removes the need for multiple windows in the slightest because all it offers is drop targets; it doesn't offer any information about those targets, which is why I have multiple windows to begin with.
If all I needed was drop targets (in the current UI), I could just have a rolled-up tabs and throw items into the locations that way. The reason I don't do that is because I need more than that. Like I say (both in the video and in my blog post): the tree view replaces tabbed stacks. It does not in any way replace multiple windows. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1241
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:04:00 -
[123] - Quote
Now - at the evening - day before winferno launch - all extra windows still refuse to reopen when you re-enter station. They seem to remember their size and position, but still need to manually open all again.
Folder menu still has wrong background style as for example using desert theme colours makes the it pretty unreadable. Background should be same colour than in other menus like that (for example in market).
Opening ships cargo bay by double clicking hangar background opens cargo in inventory window. Double clicking hangar background while holding shift opens it to new window. However this only happens if inventory window is already open (should not need to be) and double clicking hangar background again (while still holding shift) opens another copy of cargo window to yet another new window. It should "activate", "bring to front" or "close if already active and in front" the previous copy instead.
Didn't even bother to test the space, looting, system change functionality any more because - well - I'm just fed up...
If someone wants to give it more in depth final verdict - be my guest.
If this goes live tomorrow, I'm heading to play diablo 3. CCP may email me with some nice reactivation offer when (and if) this has been fixed. Rather do something fun than get myself angry with something what I don't want to use in it's current form.
Get |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6954
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:19:00 -
[124] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Now - at the evening - day before winferno launch - all extra windows still refuse to reopen when you re-enter station. They seem to remember their size and position, but still need to manually open all again. [etc] Did you happen to notice if they had fixed the corp delivery bug? It says it has been fixed in my bug report list, but it would just be too hilarious if that one slipped throughGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Weed Probe
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:19:00 -
[125] - Quote
Unified Faggotry Weed Probe's private 3rd party Service. Trusted in all New Eden. Incursion fleets T2 Rigging Service for 2m ISK. Just Weed it. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1241
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:30:00 -
[126] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:Now - at the evening - day before winferno launch - all extra windows still refuse to reopen when you re-enter station. They seem to remember their size and position, but still need to manually open all again. [etc] Did you happen to notice if they had fixed the corp delivery bug? It says it has been fixed in my bug report list, but it would just be too hilarious if that one slipped throughGǪ Yea now they seriously seem to think that people go always check to that folder under the corp tree and check if they have new deliveries rather than having open window for that purpose... Specially the traders are going to love the new improvement as long the windows won't stick open when you change station session.
as in from patch notes: "Market deliveries now appear under the Corporate hangar section in the Index tree of the inventory."
Improvements my **s.
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1243
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 07:02:00 -
[127] - Quote
Morning of inferno launch day. Client patch #1 applied to SiSi. Unified winventory still broken like hell.
Good luck. You'll need it.
Get |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
697
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 07:10:00 -
[128] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Tippia wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:Now - at the evening - day before winferno launch - all extra windows still refuse to reopen when you re-enter station. They seem to remember their size and position, but still need to manually open all again. [etc] Did you happen to notice if they had fixed the corp delivery bug? It says it has been fixed in my bug report list, but it would just be too hilarious if that one slipped throughGǪ Yea now they seriously seem to think that people go always check to that folder under the corp tree and check if they have new deliveries rather than having open window for that purpose... Specially the traders are going to love the new improvement as long the windows won't stick open when you change station session. as in from patch notes: "Market deliveries now appear under the Corporate hangar section in the Index tree of the inventory." Improvements my **s.
Industrialists are going to hate this the most.
When you warp to a POS, guns show up in the tree as containers.
Warping Station <> POS for things like grabbing minerals is frustrating as hell. Evrey time you dock, you need to re-find your mineral supply, undock, warp to your POS with 50billion containers and find the right one.
Not to mention... Previously I would open cargo > right click on pos > open fuel bay grab fuel from cargo and drop into fuel bay.
This no longer works because it 'closes' the ship cargo and replaces the inventory window with the pos's fuel bay.
Tomorrow is going to be glorious and I look forward to the threadnaughts this new inventory system will create. I got popcorn!
It's not rocket surgery. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1243
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 07:17:00 -
[129] - Quote
Yep... the stupidity in decision to release this in it's current state is overwhelming and shows how reckless and bullheaded certain people in CCP are. Entire expansion ruined by crap like this. Thanks in advance. I love you guys too.
Get |
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 08:13:00 -
[130] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote: If this goes live tomorrow, I'm heading to play diablo 3. CCP may email me with some nice reactivation offer when (and if) this has been fixed. Rather do something fun than get myself angry with something what I don't want to use in it's current form.
Can I have your stuff? |
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Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
108
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 08:16:00 -
[131] - Quote
I hope they have got a different build ready and when I log on my separate Ships and Hanger buttons are still there
New UI = pants
Tal
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BrutalButFair
Fleet of the Damned Ace of Spades.
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 08:24:00 -
[132] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones.
You laughed out load out load? |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
693
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 09:12:00 -
[133] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Not to mention... Previously I would open cargo > right click on pos > open fuel bay grab fuel from cargo and drop into fuel bay.
This no longer works because it 'closes' the ship cargo and replaces the inventory window with the pos's fuel bay.
you're doing it wrong. shift click Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
493
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 09:23:00 -
[134] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey folks.
I just wanted to restate what we said in the Dev blog for the Unified Inventory that we wanted to get feedback from those that use SiSi in order to address problems that would occur. We intended on following heavily up on the feedback, doing as much as possible before launch as well as doing even further iterations and fixes in the upcoming release. Team Game of Drones is committed to a new methodology of using the principals of User Centered Design, where the User Experience of our players drives our design decisions.
Not only did we collect all feedback from the Forums, personal posts, Twitter comments and other sources but we took the issues many of you like Grey Stormshadow, Tippia and other have been pointing out and created a User Testing plan which we facilitated last week. In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.
Is there perhaps a chance EVE players could get involved in this? I roughly know how the procedure works, I (and I am sure others) wouldn't mind following your instructions and writing about our experiences. Or even making a video.
After all we don't want an UI that works for a bunch of tester monkeys. We want an UI that works for regular EVE players, from miners to mission runners to haulers to starbase managers to alliance CEOs.
I feel that the connection between CCP and the playerbase that was estabilished in the fall and culminated in Crucible is breaking apart again. EVE is unique in the fact that I as a player feel that I am directly affecting the course of its development, through the CSM, crowdsourcing, feedback threads, and similar. But now once again features are being designed behind a closed door with nothing but a promise that "it will be awesome" and "iterated on in the future" again. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1247
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 13:34:00 -
[135] - Quote
I just want to confirm that the junk is now on tranq and is as broken as expected.
Get |
Chaosmancer
Radio Dunkelheit
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 13:48:00 -
[136] - Quote
What the hell CCP... |
Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
245
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 13:49:00 -
[137] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome.
Hey, you're not in a window and on fire :) Huzzah! If you're in a player corp then war-dec is just something you have to accept is coming with it, regardless of your play-style. ~CCP |
Di Mulle
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 13:58:00 -
[138] - Quote
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote: If this goes live tomorrow, I'm heading to play diablo 3. CCP may email me with some nice reactivation offer when (and if) this has been fixed. Rather do something fun than get myself angry with something what I don't want to use in it's current form.
Can I have your stuff?
I love this man. He is so incredibly creative, you wouldn't even believe.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>> |
Disdaine
266
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 14:02:00 -
[139] - Quote
Not liking it at all.
But then I didn't like the way the new neocom removed functionality eitherl.
Or the way CQ removed hangar functionality until they brought it back.
Must just be me and my silly desires to do things as quickly and efficiently as possible. |
mercuryyy
Apex Overplayed Coalition Fatal Ascension
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 14:03:00 -
[140] - Quote
Bet the grand plan behind all this is to make people stop shooting statues in Jita again just by making it impossible for most of them to figure out how to load ammo into their ships/guns :D |
|
Rrama Ratamnim
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 14:11:00 -
[141] - Quote
i posted most of my comments in test feedback
and i had said as many are saying now... that the anger would be about the 1 main thing
BRING SHORTCUTS!
We need the old shortcuts back, i love the new inventory! But we need the old right click and button shortcuts back... just make them open the respective target in a non-sidebar'd inventory window of that respective targets folder... tada EVERYONE HAPPY.
That and more work on remembering position and window states. |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
281
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 14:19:00 -
[142] - Quote
Whatever. I left my feedback before this **** hit live, now I'm in skill-training mode until Winferno unfucks itself. +1 in local |
BigDaddyMcFatSacks
Space Olympics LLC
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 14:26:00 -
[143] - Quote
Seriously CCP the inventory thing would have been fine as an additional feature, not as the way to access our stuff. I really dont remember seeing threads and threads of how do i access my inventory, so why did you change it??? Ive only been online 30 mins and i already have a huge distaste for this new inventory system. I used to click one button and be right where i wanted, now im clicking multiple times, then shift clicking and then doing something else. Fix this stupid ****... |
Senarian Tyme
Serenity Rising LLC Vanguard.
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 14:44:00 -
[144] - Quote
The new inventory system takes up more of your screen, and takes longer to get to stuff.
It would be a good optional feature, but it is a horrible for main way to get to things that violates basic HCI design principles.
Looking cool for a UI should never take priority over functionality. I guess I incorrectly assumed that your experience last summer with CQ would have taught you that lesson CCP. |
Shimrod Murgenson
z-inc.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 14:50:00 -
[145] - Quote
If only i could MOVE my stuff from one hanger to the next..
but that function seems to be overrated..
|
Sellendis
The Ares project
105
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 14:53:00 -
[146] - Quote
And all we wanted was tabs in station cargo window like we have in corp hangar. But noooo, lets complicate that and make station, ship, drone, containers, corp hangar, ship hangar all in one window.
Its like taking all 999 (for me at least) files in Eve folder and sticking all of them in root of C:, unified folder for easy access.... and screw visibility.
Nicely played CCP, ignored feedback as usual. Do we occupy Jita again? |
Tawn Maihac
Kumovi The G0dfathers
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 14:56:00 -
[147] - Quote
Guess it's time to play something else untill they fix the bugs out if this one.
No use playing if the inventory system doesn't let me move items around at all.
|
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1239
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:00:00 -
[148] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome.
care to bet your paycheck on that?
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
288
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:02:00 -
[149] - Quote
I am playing d3 until they improve this unified inventory to my satisfaction... I did leave feed back before you released this thing |
Ituhata Saken
Crimson Cross Destroyers
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:05:00 -
[150] - Quote
Doesn't bother me, its pretty much windows, click one folder, select item(s), drag to the other folder. I'm not sure what the issue is but I don't have my own hangars like the big boys....I am assuming the procedure is the same though. |
|
Indalecia
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:05:00 -
[151] - Quote
First impression:
CCP, could you have used an even DARKER shade of gray for the TITLES in the inventory window? It's really unreadable and making my eyes hurt.
Also, while I do appreciate the capacity to open stuff in a new window (with shift-click), the windows opened that way should remember their position and keep opened when docking/undocking. |
Jajas Helper
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:21:00 -
[152] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Holy christ that video from Tippia is infuriating, why does he keep closing the tree, do you not get that the tree is what makes the ease of navigation, that simply clicking on a particular tree marker erases the need to clutter your screen with windows, you don't NEED to have that **** open all over the place like that, its all neatly bundled into one package.
The filters allow you to go one farther and only see the parts you need most at any one time like, its baffling watching him do that over and over when its just like, leave the tree open and stop screwing around.
I can sympathize in most instances where players have called something wrong or bad but in this instance it just looks like players begging for a new UI and then complaining when that new UI comes with an altered (more functional less cluttered) functionality that they need to adjust to.
not everyone has a big screen: overview- scanner- local - intel channel- cargo - cap booster contain! (pewpew) - selected item and locked target images already take up 50+% of my screen, adding another tree stack is reducing my already limited view....
I welcome this update and the tree stack if you buy me a screen which makes up for the lost space that i now have to organize my needed window layout..
thanks |
Jita Check Monkey
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:28:00 -
[153] - Quote
What sucks Donkey D***.........
New inventory sucks Donkey D***
That is all |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:29:00 -
[154] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Whatever. I left my feedback before this **** hit live, now I'm in skill-training mode until Winferno unfucks itself.
More or less this and not loosing anything worthy IG for sure. However forum posting and contribute to this community while playing (other) funny stuff is always a good experience |
beast rage
Miricom Scientific Rising Phoenix Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:33:00 -
[155] - Quote
the new inventory sucks it complicates what used to be easy and simple |
Jajas Helper
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:34:00 -
[156] - Quote
also,
comfirming that ccp could have done a great job by just letting up setup filters and optional tree stack so the people who would benifit from this could use it when need- corp hangar **** fest-
now we are going to have a few weeks of forum whine until ccp allows the new system to reproduce the old way of things for 90% of the things we do in eve: Multiple windows that allow us a quick overview of what items.
As pointed out before, it takes more time to use the current tree stack and find the things you need in personal hangar, containers. Now i open new windows for containers through the tree stack, instead of before - selecting my station containers and opening all 10 of them at the same time ( select 10 containers- open all). They used to open up 5 x 2... now it takes me 10 ******* open new window clicks instead of 2 clicks+ right menu click...
I'm sorry i don't know what is in every tree tab - container/ship by memory :( i needs to open them and view them to see what is in there, and i'm even more sorry that i don't know what every item's volume is - calculating how much ammo of each type, 5 different ones, it takes to fill up my cargo... - if you too need to open up a new window of your ships cargo, you proved that the new tree stacking thing does not work, as you are reproducing the old way of doing things, because it was faster?
anyway, add functions not rewrite the intire thing and then even ******* that up... and give us a chose to use them when they would actually be useful - faster then what is already being used.
ps: i'm not mad, just takes 10 times longer to do quick simple tasks... which is just annoying and disappointing
|
beast will Fehrnah
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:38:00 -
[157] - Quote
beast rage wrote:the new inventory sucks it complicates what used to be easy and simple
my thoughts exactly training mode till this is fixed or my account runs out which ever comes first |
Jita Check Monkey
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:39:00 -
[158] - Quote
Jajas Helper wrote: ps: i'm not mad, just takes 10 times longer to do quick simple tasks... which is just annoying and disappointing
Confirming i am MAD about this.
No you may not aquire my belongings id rather trash them, although that will take me 10x longer to do now |
Roxwar
The Foreign Legion Test Alliance Please Ignore
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:40:00 -
[159] - Quote
After ALL the neg feedback on this over on Sisi, and you STILL push it out onto Tranq and expect people to just get on with it?
Did last years events not burn a big enough image on your brains regarding how not to pi**off 99% of your player base with stupid idea's that were very well documented in the feedback forums?
Seriously, i have no sympathy for you gys sometimes as you appear to be your own worst enemy.
Fix the inventory system ASAP please, or at the very least give us the option to disable via settings just like you did with CQ.
I'll be off playing D3 while you CCP dudes fix this mess. I didnt want that easy to navigate inventory system anyway
Oh, and good work on the window popping up after every jump, bravo. http://roxwar.blogspot.com/ |
Jajas Helper
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:40:00 -
[160] - Quote
Jita Check Monkey wrote:Jajas Helper wrote: ps: i'm not mad, just takes 10 times longer to do quick simple tasks... which is just annoying and disappointing
Confirming i am MAD about this. No you may not aquire my belongings id rather trash them, although that will take me 10x longer to do now
Quoting for truth* |
|
Jajas Helper
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:42:00 -
[161] - Quote
Just wanting to add:
eve expansion causes overloaded D3 server... |
Mark Androcius
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:43:00 -
[162] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones.
we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input
There you go, spotted the error of your ways. How about someone actually monitoring the TEST SERVER FEEDBACK forums and sound a few alarm bells, after seeing the TRULY STAGGERING amount of negative posts about it????
Perhaps if you did that, you could have fixed things BEFORE you forced it upon tranquility. If a man speaks his mind in the forest and no woman hears him, is he still wrong? |
Jita Check Monkey
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:47:00 -
[163] - Quote
And what happenned to right click ship open drone bay option?
The only + from this expansion is the new kill information, but even that is broken as all show 0 isk lost at the bottom. |
Dinta Zembo
Snuff Box
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:47:00 -
[164] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones.
|
Aerich e'Kieron
Snuff Box
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:48:00 -
[165] - Quote
Quote: How about someone actually monitoring the TEST SERVER FEEDBACK forums and sound a few alarm bells, after seeing the TRULY STAGGERING amount of negative posts about it????
Perhaps if you did that, you could have fixed things BEFORE you forced it upon tranquility.
Pretty much, that. |
Pabby Lasoya
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:49:00 -
[166] - Quote
This is awful, just awful! Every time I dock I have to shift click to be able to see my hangar and ship window at the same time. USing the cargo hold is such a horribly tedious experience that I will simply sit in station and spin my ship until they change it back. it's GOD-AWFUL!!!!!!!!!! |
Ktadaemon
Confederation of Red Moon
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:53:00 -
[167] - Quote
Truly hideous new inventory UI. Far, far, far more clicks now to do basic procedures than ever before. I didn't think managing a POS with multiple labs and factories could ever get more painful than it already was but now it's truly unbearable!
this needs to be made optional or completely rolled back asap. |
Lugaedh
Bluestar Enterprises The Craftsmen
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:02:00 -
[168] - Quote
Are the devs here mocking us?
Anyone actually PLAYING the game within an instants realizes what a pile of sh*t this "upgrade" is...
Sorry - but this is really, really annoying. |
Disdaine
268
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:04:00 -
[169] - Quote
Been enjoying this new and improved user friendly UI doing some probing ratting and mission.
Roll it back, make it optional.
There's just so many things that bug me about it.
|
Obsidian Dagger
Nitrus Nine
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:05:00 -
[170] - Quote
It's sort of like the old Windows UI
I liked the old Windows UI
Missiles are sexy now.
The other stuff is irrelevant. |
|
Rex Garvin
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:13:00 -
[171] - Quote
LOL |
James Razor
RazorCorporation
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:13:00 -
[172] - Quote
A couple of us are allready in Jita again.
Lets see how many join us this time and how fast CCP realizes that they brought themselfs into a idiotic stituation again. So much for learning from past mistakes.
And this time i realy wont feel sorry for they guys who will lose their jobs. Old Bitter Veteran, SuperCap Owner, EX-GBC / EX-IT Member.
And as it looks, soon to be (again) EX - Eve Player. |
Kile Kitmoore
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:15:00 -
[173] - Quote
Disclaimer, I have not tested the new Inventory UI. It sounds like I am not really missing anything, dreading even messing with the thing.
Was there some big problem with the old system? When I think of badly implemented UI's the god awful LP Store window and Asset Manager that does not let me search inside Station Containers and does not show me POCO assets comes to mind. So did you guys really go out of your way to fix that which was not broken and create yet another UI element that is going to need a lot of help?
A guess we can just throw Inventory onto the LP/Asset UI fire and wait for CCP to actually hire someone that has a better way to create a unified UI that actually makes sense.
|
Disdaine
269
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:18:00 -
[174] - Quote
When you have to add a shift click to open multiple windows to emulate the old UI in order to perform your everyday tasks you should have realised there is something inherently flawed with the idea of a unified inventory. |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
283
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:18:00 -
[175] - Quote
James Razor wrote:A couple of us are allready in Jita again.
Lets see how many join us this time and how fast CCP realizes that they brought themselfs into a idiotic stituation again. So much for learning from past mistakes. I'll join the late shift when I get off work, put one of my alts on the task because Caldari hate me. Best thing about shooting the monument: You can do it AFK without drawing wife aggro. +1 in local |
ISquishWorms
113
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:24:00 -
[176] - Quote
CCP arn''t listening. |
James Razor
RazorCorporation
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:25:00 -
[177] - Quote
CCP Zulu just showed up in Jita. TIme to show him how pissed we all are.
Get over here and put some guns on that monument! Old Bitter Veteran, SuperCap Owner, EX-GBC / EX-IT Member.
And as it looks, soon to be (again) EX - Eve Player. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
129
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:29:00 -
[178] - Quote
James Razor wrote:CCP Zulu just showed up in Jita. TIme to show him how pissed we all are.
Get over here and put some guns on that monument!
Apparently nothing has changed since the old "We'll do what we want attitude" CCP again has done what they want, regardless of the concerns of their customer base. They think they know whats best for us.... Looking to stamp out apiphobia in my lifetime..... |
Ryuichi Hiroki
EVE University Ivy League
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:31:00 -
[179] - Quote
All the devs have to fix really is that it should save which bits you want in seperate windows.
Please make this so. |
knobber Jobbler
167
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:32:00 -
[180] - Quote
I knew Crucible was to good to be true. CCP has gone back to pre-crucible CCP with Shitferno. |
|
James Razor
RazorCorporation
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:57:00 -
[181] - Quote
Dont let them get through with this. Act upon it. Old Bitter Veteran, SuperCap Owner, EX-GBC / EX-IT Member.
And as it looks, soon to be (again) EX - Eve Player. |
Gabriel Kaile
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:04:00 -
[182] - Quote
This thread is amazing.
Keep whining, turbonerds. |
Metal Icarus
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
182
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:09:00 -
[183] - Quote
Lovin the new inventory! Much simpler and easier to use! Rather than needing 5 different windows to fit and equip my ship, I just need one!
MUCH better! |
Jita Check Monkey
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:11:00 -
[184] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:Lovin the new inventory! Much simpler and easier to use! Rather than needing 5 different windows to fit and equip my ship, I just need one!
MUCH better!
i will rise to your troll, now lets make love |
Gabriel Kaile
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:11:00 -
[185] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:Lovin the new inventory! Much simpler and easier to use! Rather than needing 5 different windows to fit and equip my ship, I just need one!
MUCH better!
Seriously, it's nice as hell.
I don't see why these nerds are whining. |
Kalpel
KBM
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:13:00 -
[186] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome.
Yup or at least until you open your cargo hold and hanger ........ EPIC fail!
You failed to target nothing!-áGëívGëí online |
Zhihatsu
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:15:00 -
[187] - Quote
Kalpel wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome. Yup or at least until you open your cargo hold and hanger ........ EPIC fail!
Keep whining. Number of calories in a cubic lightyear of ham http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=number+of+calories+in+a+cubic+lightyear+of+ham |
Gabriel Kaile
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:16:00 -
[188] - Quote
Kalpel wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome. Yup or at least until you open your cargo hold and hanger ........ EPIC fail!
When did "fail" become a noun? |
James Razor
RazorCorporation
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:21:00 -
[189] - Quote
Gabriel Kaile wrote:Kalpel wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome. Yup or at least until you open your cargo hold and hanger ........ EPIC fail! When did "fail" become a noun?
Who did let you out of the cage? I demand compensation for this attrocity. Old Bitter Veteran, SuperCap Owner, EX-GBC / EX-IT Member.
And as it looks, soon to be (again) EX - Eve Player. |
adam smash
University of Caille Gallente Federation
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:23:00 -
[190] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones.
STFU you retards do not listen, the fake trailers for this fail were 1000000 times better than what you gave infact GIVE US BACK THE OLD ****. |
|
Zhihatsu
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:26:00 -
[191] - Quote
doubleposted Number of calories in a cubic lightyear of ham http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=number+of+calories+in+a+cubic+lightyear+of+ham |
Zhihatsu
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:27:00 -
[192] - Quote
adam smash wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones. STFU you retards do not listen, the fake trailers for this fail were 1000000 times better than what you gave infact GIVE US BACK THE OLD ****.
If you worked at CCP you'd have access to the old reference servers. Then you could have everything like you liked it back at release. Number of calories in a cubic lightyear of ham http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=number+of+calories+in+a+cubic+lightyear+of+ham |
Kremnican
Kinetic Vector Imperial Ascension
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:41:00 -
[193] - Quote
Well, for those who like the new UI. It's not bad, really. As long as you have your items, hangar without containers and cargohold only. The moment your corporation has and office, with cans, it's a nightmare to move the stuff between cargohold and the rest, without opening a dedicated cargohold window.
And now the best part... warp to a POS with 3 reactors, lab, 6 silos and 20 guns and try to switch a reaction. Small hint... the guns have storage as well and tower has one for fuel and one for strontium.
|
Keltaris Cesaille
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:42:00 -
[194] - Quote
Confirming everything is working as intended, as you were |
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:43:00 -
[195] - Quote
No CCP comment upon the fact that nothing has changed? I only ever emerge from the shadows when my main is banned. |
Senarian Tyme
Serenity Rising LLC Vanguard.
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:45:00 -
[196] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome.
The Cake is a Lie! |
Eryn Velasquez
42
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:47:00 -
[197] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:Lovin the new inventory! Much simpler and easier to use! Rather than needing 5 different windows to fit and equip my ship, I just need one!
MUCH better!
I think it will take a while to get real familiar with it, but i don't think it's bad at all.
But - it's a pain in the ... to loot a mission now, because everytime you click on "loot all" it loads the whole hangar from the noctis again - it's much slower then before. GÇ£A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.GÇ¥-áGÇò Jean-Jacques Rousseau-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7026
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:54:00 -
[198] - Quote
Keltaris Cesaille wrote:Confirming everything is working as intended, as you were Confirming that most of the intentions are ill-informed, short-sighted, and ignorant of the vast majority of use cases. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
stoicfaux
1079
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:01:00 -
[199] - Quote
Click on 'X' to close inventory window. Jump through stargate. Inventory window opens up automatically...
Annoying.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
|
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
136
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:04:00 -
[200] - Quote
Gabriel Kaile wrote:Metal Icarus wrote:Lovin the new inventory! Much simpler and easier to use! Rather than needing 5 different windows to fit and equip my ship, I just need one!
MUCH better! Seriously, it's nice as hell. I don't see why these nerds are whining.
New Mittani alt kissing up to the Devs?
Looking to stamp out apiphobia in my lifetime..... |
|
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:07:00 -
[201] - Quote
Don't know about the Window [TM] but liking the new portraits: http://i.imgur.com/PeZoc.jpg |
Zenst
Tsunami Cartel SQUEE.
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:14:00 -
[202] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome.
Didn't you mean AWESOME as in:
Atrocious Windowing Enviroment Stuffed On Many Eve-players
Becasue that is what I read and experienced |
leich
Nocturnal Romance Fall From Heaven
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:22:00 -
[203] - Quote
This patch is so bitter sweet.
The new missile and amarr models are awsome.
the new inventory system is such i crock of ****.
im all for new functionality but dont break the existing model to do it.
we high lighted the issues with it the first day it was on sis and although improvements have been made it's really not ready for prime to deployment.
I would also say that the rest of the patch is also a let down. this patch could have been awsome but typical ccp half arsedness has ****** them again. |
Maggot Jones
Domination. En Garde
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:23:00 -
[204] - Quote
New window system is terrible, i don't care what anyone says " give it some time " " go out get fresh air " usual crap, no just no, its crap in every way possible and videos have been made proving its ****, bring back old window system or give option to switch back, thanks. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:24:00 -
[205] - Quote
Kremnican wrote:Well, for those who like the new UI. It's not bad, really. As long as you have your items, hangar without containers and cargohold only.
I agree with you until this.
Everything else is exatcly related to what we're asking for.
You can't say something is good for release when such important little stuff makes you eve life harder. Either release it at a satisfying point or just don't.
|
Maggot Jones
Domination. En Garde
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:26:00 -
[206] - Quote
Aron Croup wrote:"Nothing to see here? Move along?"
Seriously, it's a new UI. There are as many ways to use a UI as there are people using it - and it will be impossible to accommodate everyone's particular wishes in the first run. Does that mean CCP should stop developing new technology or no longer attempt to improve on the old UI?
Certainly not. It just means you have to be patient and politely point out that you think there's a problem with the new system so it can be fixed in the iterative process.
It wasn't broke, or are you just some new scrub who started playing eve, never hear the expression, if it's not broke don't fix it. |
Sir Halfloaf
Amarrian Bakery Corp
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:27:00 -
[207] - Quote
Zenst wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome. Didn't you mean AWESOME as in: Atrocious Windowing Enviroment Stuffed On Many Eve-players Becasue that is what I read and experienced
This is actually my feeling entirely .. God it sucks big time . Even worse than the ship spinning being removed , then returning |
Zora stein
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:27:00 -
[208] - Quote
New hanger interfaces are **** ! I hated the last changes and the new changes are way worse.I like the missile effects but id trade that for my hanger back any day,Not good CCP Big thumbs down. |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
119
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:29:00 -
[209] - Quote
Came online in Jita. No Local Chat...not even Corp Chat !
Logged off and back on. Still no Local...still no Corp. Flew to 4-4. One other Rookie Ship besides my own buzzing around and nobody else. Weird. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Smoking McPot
The-Four-HorseMen
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:31:00 -
[210] - Quote
the first thread was nuked before i hit post, god this forum sucks sometimes at least it was not the software this time...
anyway
make it like windows explorer: a combination of the new and old ui
left pane as is, except you would make stuff draggable again. also: Drag'n'Drop Activation
right pane shows the contents as is, except you would make it so that we can open cans/ships with a double click again. Into multiple windows, side by side.
Tidied up cargo management for those obsessed with a clean interface, full range overview for those who like to see their huge widescreen real estate put to use.
It is just that more effective and more importantly, untuitive.
|
|
Yabba Addict
Legion of the Many
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:32:00 -
[211] - Quote
yeah, jita local seems screwed. As for pilots, yeah i can see some, we're by the monument, blasting away |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
123
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:35:00 -
[212] - Quote
Yabba Addict wrote:yeah, jita local seems screwed. As for pilots, yeah i can see some, we're by the monument, blasting away
Ditto no local (no dialogue box at all)
Tal
|
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
120
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:35:00 -
[213] - Quote
There WERE 2600 on Local and hundreds buzzing around monument. That was so wierd having Lunch then coming back to a ghost town. Logging back in.....
And there is a Login Queue, #125 !!!!
After 4 minutes got down to #65.
Logging back again . #175. 5 minutes later I am #134.
Giving up. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Javajunky
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:46:00 -
[214] - Quote
I'm a little insulted to see CCP say "Well it was on SiSi you had the opportunity to complain about it..." (paraphrasing)
Most of us are adults with careers, jobs and families. Sorry if we weren't able to get on to your servers and test your crap out and increase the number of posts you already had complaining about this U/I But I'm paying customers and we're allowed to btich out something we don't like...and my 9 accounts certainly entitle me to do it whenver the f*ck I want...
I really wasn't sweating this, I honestly thought you had some basic common sense and made this an option just like walking in stations.
Did any of you people work there last year when walking in stations went live and how pissed people were about a UI change like that. What a a bunch of ******** @ss clowns, and if you don't like the criticism feel free to delete my accounts. If I get home from work today and find all 9 of them closed I won't lose a wink of sleep over it. |
KanashiiKami
103
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:52:00 -
[215] - Quote
the UI seems to jam very often even in station when scrolling thru stuff ... rendering stoppages in gameplay for 30sec-60sec ... seems like im not going to risk a lag death out in space ...
so any minigames i can play in station? WUT ??? |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:55:00 -
[216] - Quote
Please express your unsatisfying arguments without insulting (real) people working hard under their directors orders to achieve such crap.
I have nothing to say to all of those who really did this job but to the one guy at the top with such an idiotic idea. Fell free to forum ban this char like Tanya, I don't care, as far as I'm concerned I'm logging only to screw stuff up since it's the only way those big hats understand whatever. OC this will last until my accounts are out of sub, unfortunately for me it's only in a few months, if only I could get my money back and biomass/trash all my **** , believe me I'd do so.
I really have the feeling of being racket with this window crap. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1273
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:57:00 -
[217] - Quote
4090 in jita at the moment and it is pretty much not responding.
Get |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1541
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:03:00 -
[218] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome. Quoting for hilarity.
You guys shot yourselves in the foot. AGAIN. How can you possibly be surprised by basic UI problems like windows that won't save their size/position and reopen every time there's a session change? After all the reassurances, this is MOST disappointing. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
FeralShadow
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
123
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:40:00 -
[219] - Quote
Shift click to open new window. Shift click to open new window. How the Eve Sandbox Works:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=482176#post482176 "I do believe in karma. That means that whenever I do something sh**y to others, they somehow deserved it." |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
122
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:41:00 -
[220] - Quote
why did they do this without making a way to work around it? my whole beef with the removal of "ship spinning" was only that I was not able to easily open the cargo bay when I entered a station... they fixed that.. and now added this? [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7056
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:41:00 -
[221] - Quote
FeralShadow wrote:Shift click to open new window. GǪsolves nothing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
126
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:46:00 -
[222] - Quote
FeralShadow wrote:Shift click to open new window.
this is still cumbersome...and does not permanantly fix the trouble as the windows reconsolidate on leaivng station.. sorry but the shift-click thing only helps you if you don't remember how easy it used to be. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Artik Fawkes
Aerospace Dynamics
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:50:00 -
[223] - Quote
In stations, the new inventory seems alright. Took me a little while to set up my old system by opening up new windows and positioning things. And again, once I undocked in my Vargur, it took a bit to figure out a new system. However, once in-mission, I found a few issues. Opening a wreck takes a while, causes lag, and could either hurt productivity or worse. Second, clicking inside of the inventory window of a wreck causes a small spike of lag. These need fixed right away, they're severe performance hindrances that will surely leave many other marauder and salvager pilots displeased.
I do love mousing over stuff to see how much it's worth, though. That's an amazing feature. |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
184
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:58:00 -
[224] - Quote
*bangs head on desk*
It's lovely and all, some great new functionality has been introduced, and it obviously isn't a total disaster and it's all tweakable; but why, after the furore last year (which included a fair proportion of people pissed off about broken functionality with the loss of Hangar view in Incarna) hasn't the lesson been learnt that you can't force a change of deeply-ingrained habits overnight? Once again, CCP have succeeded in making "home" seem alien for some non-negligible proportion of the players.
*sigh*
Still, must remember ... it's just a videogame :) |
Agrapena
Ex Astrum.. The Fendahlian Collective
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:04:00 -
[225] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome.
Missile effects & Missile turrets. Yes.
New SB Models. Yes...Except the hound, it`ll always be fugly.
WAR Mechanics. Yes
New Killmail system. Do we really need it? Even if its a YES? (not broke don`t fix?)
Inventory system. Awesome Fail. Great idea, but I don`t always want to have to remember to press shift to bring up a seperate window. Bring back seperate cargo and ship hangar windows and buttons on the neocom.
Inferno Trailer. Lacked Awesome. Didn't make me sexwee. Maybe due to lack of video length and content All you showcased in that trailer was the impressive missile updates. No story, just missiles.
|
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
147
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:07:00 -
[226] - Quote
Artik Fawkes wrote:In stations, the new inventory seems alright. Took me a little while to set up my old system by opening up new windows and positioning things. And again, once I undocked in my Vargur, it took a bit to figure out a new system. However, once in-mission, I found a few issues. Opening a wreck takes a while, causes lag, and could either hurt productivity or worse. Second, clicking inside of the inventory window of a wreck causes a small spike of lag. These need fixed right away, they're severe performance hindrances that will surely leave many other marauder and salvager pilots displeased.
I do love mousing over stuff to see how much it's worth, though. That's an amazing feature.
You do everything but describe what happens when you re-dock. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:08:00 -
[227] - Quote
Artik Fawkes wrote:In stations, the new inventory seems alright. Took me a little while to set up my old system by opening up new windows and positioning things. And again, once I undocked in my Vargur, it took a bit to figure out a new system. However, once in-mission, I found a few issues. Opening a wreck takes a while, causes lag, and could either hurt productivity or worse. Second, clicking inside of the inventory window of a wreck causes a small spike of lag. These need fixed right away, they're severe performance hindrances that will surely leave many other marauder and salvager pilots displeased.
I do love mousing over stuff to see how much it's worth, though. That's an amazing feature.
It is something I'm talking about from a long while ago.
This new "window" feature actually does not solve multiple window and clicks stuff just adds more and tedious clicks to achieve same taks. This can not be considered as an improvement of something that didn't needed fixes.
However "excell" windows like is more about grid and the informations you have fixed on that 'thing' while most of them could simply be a client side load in whatever empire system, client side always but corporation/alliance "system discovery". What would this change?
Client side? well, belts planets moons and whatever fixed celestial would be directly shown on your screen without any sort of action of your part, you could however, choose "scan type" where you would find each and every single option of grid. But this also mean whenever you jump through some gate at loading your system knows what you want to have on your screen or not, therefore increasing/or unloading your system and give you the exact same information or even plus than now without an instant impact due to so many server/client changes info because of "tabs" and "show all brackets" of less.
Targets could possibly be shown as per usual gridd (option) or mouse over, since targeting as long as you have a decent and competent FC is faster and easier from fleet history.
This is CCP's huge task to achieve and give us a much better gaming interface, "THA GRID" and not "THA WINDOW" |
trololololololl
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:10:00 -
[228] - Quote
It's taking me more clicks to do the same thing = terrible |
Spice Weasel
Tranquil Edge of Insanity
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:14:00 -
[229] - Quote
Your active ship is no longer displayed in the Ship hangar. You can no longer right click on your ship in the Fitting screen to access the drone bay, you need to go to active ship and then select the sub inventory item.
Please, undo this. |
Adeptus mecanicus
The Flaming Sideburn's Waterboard
201
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:15:00 -
[230] - Quote
i dont like the new inventory system that they implemented even when ppl that was saying it was overcomplicated and cumbersome when they had it on SISI, hoarders might like it and acountants but then again do they undock in a hurry? coz i think FCs is gonna have to give the fleet extended time to reship.
CCP might also consider that ppl starting this game might be a bit more discuraged to join after finaly managing to get out of the friggin captains chamber "giggling with glee" and then ramming into this nightmare that only a comunal byrocrat can say he enjoys fiddleing with |
|
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
703
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:16:00 -
[231] - Quote
Spice Weasel wrote:Your active ship is no longer displayed in the Ship hangar. You can no longer right click on your ship in the Fitting screen to access the drone bay, you need to go to active ship and then select the sub inventory item.
Please, undo this. you're doing it wrong Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Khergit Deserters
Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:26:00 -
[232] - Quote
Are you having troubles with whimpers and night cries? This app will solve cries of babies and kids, and release you from daily irritations and sleep deprivations. By choosing the appropriate from 4 selective sounds (that have been scientifically proven to stop children's cries), whimpering children will stop crying like a miracle.
Once the babies stops crying, please play either of the Orange05 or Pink06. This healing melody will put munchkins straight to dreams. Comfort sleep brings about children's healthy, gentle spirit.
Stop Baby Cry Noises 1. Silver01 2. Yellow02 3. Blue03 4. Green
Comfort Healing Melody 5. Orange05 6. Pink06 |
Spice Weasel
Tranquil Edge of Insanity
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:39:00 -
[233] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote: you're doing it wrong
What's the right way?
|
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
381
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:43:00 -
[234] - Quote
Spice Weasel wrote:MotherMoon wrote: you're doing it wrong
What's the right way?
A different way would be to left click the drone bay in the lower left corner of the fitting window.
Microsoft makes sure that you can do a basic function three ways. CCP makes sure that you can only do it one way, even if it means getting rid of the other ways all together. The upside of this is that, if they can simplify the all enough, they can port it to the PS3 eventually. |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:45:00 -
[235] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Are you having troubles with whimpers and night cries? This app will solve cries of babies and kids, and release you from daily irritations and sleep deprivations. By choosing the appropriate from 4 selective sounds (that have been scientifically proven to stop children's cries), whimpering children will stop crying like a miracle.
Once the babies stops crying, please play either of the Orange05 or Pink06. This healing melody will put munchkins straight to dreams. Comfort sleep brings about children's healthy, gentle spirit.
Stop Baby Cry Noises 1. Silver01 2. Yellow02 3. Blue03 4. Green
Comfort Healing Melody 5. Orange05 6. Pink06
So, THIS is the insidious technique used to lull CCP into sliding this on through.............. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Artik Fawkes
Aerospace Dynamics
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 21:00:00 -
[236] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Artik Fawkes wrote:In stations, the new inventory seems alright. Took me a little while to set up my old system by opening up new windows and positioning things. And again, once I undocked in my Vargur, it took a bit to figure out a new system. However, once in-mission, I found a few issues. Opening a wreck takes a while, causes lag, and could either hurt productivity or worse. Second, clicking inside of the inventory window of a wreck causes a small spike of lag. These need fixed right away, they're severe performance hindrances that will surely leave many other marauder and salvager pilots displeased.
I do love mousing over stuff to see how much it's worth, though. That's an amazing feature. You do everything but describe what happens when you re-dock.
I hadn't redocked by the time I was writing that. Was still missiong. I docked up and...everything was gone! Except for the window I was using in space, it was all gone! I mean, yeah, it's easy to shift-click it all back open. Easy is relative here, I'm a 3D artist. But I shouldn't -have- to do that. |
Darth Kilth
Clan Exiled Legends
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 21:08:00 -
[237] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:Spice Weasel wrote:MotherMoon wrote: you're doing it wrong
What's the right way? A different way would be to left click the drone bay in the lower left corner of the fitting window. So we have to go to a completly different window to open an inventory window. Intuitive I think not. |
Lenell
Aetherdyne Consortium
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 21:13:00 -
[238] - Quote
KanashiiKami wrote:the UI seems to jam very often even in station when scrolling thru stuff ... rendering stoppages in gameplay for 30sec-60sec ... seems like im not going to risk a lag death out in space ...
You too? I was wondering if this was just me, or a problem with this annoying new system. I had to repackage and stack a pile of items (Only around 30 items total). Ctrl+A and repackage took at least 30 seconds and completely froze the game up until it was done. Stack all'ing the items did the exact same thing.
This is freaking painful. I pity anyone trying to do high-volume trading right now.
|
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 21:15:00 -
[239] - Quote
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks
For real, in this case. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 21:16:00 -
[240] - Quote
trololololololl wrote:It's taking me more clicks to do the same thing = terrible
|
|
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
47
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 21:55:00 -
[241] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Spice Weasel wrote:Your active ship is no longer displayed in the Ship hangar. You can no longer right click on your ship in the Fitting screen to access the drone bay, you need to go to active ship and then select the sub inventory item.
Please, undo this. you're doing it wrong
Makes a few posts I see you posting "you're doing it wrong" and almost agress people who definitively do not share the same opinion than you;
So would you mind to explain what/why so many people are missing and makes you feel so special/awesome about clickfest?
Did you used this feature in a POS?-how great or much better is your gaming experience now from previous system?
Do you have dozens/hundreds of assets split in several stations?- how much better new system is?
How much comfortable and intuitive it is to salvage/loot your missions?- tell us how much time you win please
Care to enlighten these simple points and show us all how wrong we are, yes please do it. |
Mastin Dragonfly
No Point of Dispute Point of Dispute
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 22:03:00 -
[242] - Quote
Lenell wrote:KanashiiKami wrote:the UI seems to jam very often even in station when scrolling thru stuff ... rendering stoppages in gameplay for 30sec-60sec ... seems like im not going to risk a lag death out in space ... You too? I was wondering if this was just me, or a problem with this annoying new system. I had to repackage and stack a pile of items (Only around 30 items total). Ctrl+A and repackage took at least 30 seconds and completely froze the game up until it was done. Stack all'ing the items did the exact same thing. This is freaking painful. I pity anyone trying to do high-volume trading right now.
I tried to stack the inventory of my noctis after looting a mission, the game frooze and wouldn't unfreeze. Before stacking a cargo hold full of drone minerals would only cause a small hickup...
It sucks, back to the drawingboard.
|
Red Rydah
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 22:15:00 -
[243] - Quote
I actually like the new integrated inventory view, it's almost intuitive. I know there are some of you who do not like it, and I respect that viewpoint. As fellow subbers your opinion counts as much as mine does.
I offer a solution that has already been implimented regarding the ship spinning issue. You can toggle between CQ and the ship view with a single click. Let's try that with the inventory interface: if you click a toggle, it reverts to the old view people are accustomed to. For those of you like myself who like the new setup, we do not have to click that toggle, or click it where it does become convenient to work between both modes.
RR |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1433
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 22:23:00 -
[244] - Quote
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:It's interesting you say that because from my experience there is a definite lag in both the looting action and especially the closing of the container window. The old drag-and-drop method saw the loot transferred and the empty container window closed instantaneously.
I wonder how much of that was perceptual? As in, your attention was on the cargo window long enough that you didn't notice how long the loot window was open, then by the time you've focussed on the stack of loot windows, the old one has disappeared or is in the process of disappearing as you look back to it?
For me the slowest part of the whole process is opening up the loot window and waiting for the loot to appear. It was almost like the client was confirming the items in the window one by one with the server over the slowest possible link on the planet, before deciding to actually show the items all at once. The window would stay open [channeling Billy Joel] ooooo-ooooh for the longest time [/Billy Joel] before the items appeared. So as I'm salvaging in a Noctis, I'll just work down the list of containers clicking the "Open" button, then come back to the stack of containers to click "Loot All" as quickly as the windows disappear.
|
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
990
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 22:39:00 -
[245] - Quote
There's a central design flaw with the concept of a "unified" inventory window. It makes the poor assumption that all locations should be treated equally and have equal precedence.
There are roughly (7) main classifications of containers. Each of these classifications should have their own parent window, which only includes containers of similar type and purpose and each parent window should remember its location and open/close state.
(1) the current ship - which used to be opened with the ALT-C short-cut key combination. The unified inventory would be an improvement if that would have limited ALT-C to just showing a inventory window encompassing the cargo, corp hangars, ship maint bays, ore bays, fuel bays, drone bays of the current ship. This setting needs to be remembered on a ship *type* basis when docked and in space. The cargo display that I want for an Orca is vastly different then one for a carrier vs a freighter vs a frigate vs a cap-boosted battleship.
(2) other ships - These should have been left in their own window, but with the improved access that the tree view (somewhat) brings to the table such as being able to look at fuel bays, cargo bays in a faster manner then the old right-click menu. It needs its own dedicated short-cut key to open.
(3) personal hangar - All the cans and containers within your personal hangar. This needs to be its own separate parent window so that the player can easily understand "this is the stuff in this station" vs "this is the stuff in my current ship" vs "this is stuff within my other ships" vs "this is stuff that the corporation owns". This also needs a dedicated short-cut key and neocom button.
(4) corporate hangar & deliveries - These deserve their own dedicated parent window which includes *only* the corp hangars and delivery hangar, which remembers its position and whether it is open/closed. It should never be merged with the personal hangar window because corporate stuff should never be easily confused with personal stuff.
(5) permanently floating structures - POS labs, arrays, batteries, anchored secure containers, jump bridges, customs offices should all be banished to their own parent window, not merged into the existing "inventory" window. These are all the sorts of things where you'll probably only have (1) or (2) of them open at the same time and they need to be shown as separate and distinct from your ship's cargo.
(6) another ship's corporate office or ship bay - such as Orcas and carriers - These need to be kept visually distinct from your ship's contents window to avoid confusion.
(7) temporary floating containers - These are typically accessed one at a time, maybe 2-3 at a time in a mining operation. They need their own parent window, but that parent window could easily manage all containers within range.
|
Jajas Helper
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 22:42:00 -
[246] - Quote
I have gone from ' this is annoying" to " **** this ****- i'm not even bothering updating my pos manufactering, research and invention jobs.
In our corp, we have over 700 pos jobs going all the time, 400 of wich are daily refreshed ( some multiple times a day ) -> the invention/industry methodes were already a damn clickfest, now it is slower, unorganizable and even more clickheavy! Others in our corp aren't even bothering with it either for today, and its even worse thinking that we would have to be using this inventroy **** everyday....
QQragemode; do you guys even test the **** you bring out? - i'm not even gonne bother with going over how you're even ignoring legit player remarks in the appropriate forum sections because we all know you dont care about that... but really how could you not realise that this system is the worste thing EVER...
Fix this, then realise that your customers know more about this game and know what is better for your game then your designers and circlejerking "zomg new stuff" monkey employees.
Been here for years, and i actualy thought for a short time now that you guys got your **** together and actualy started listening to your customers who actualy care about this game and have invested alot of time into it (hence why we, the playerbase dont want this game to go to ****). Sadly I can only say... that you sirs have failed.
|
rofflesausage
State War Academy Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 22:47:00 -
[247] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:There's a central design flaw with the concept of a "unified" inventory window. It makes the poor assumption that all locations should be treated equally and have equal precedence.
[post]
I just hope the devs see this, it's absolutely spot on.
POS management tonight was quite frankly, hell. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
598
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 22:54:00 -
[248] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones.
I'm glad you're laughing because I'm not.
So I've got multiple SMA's and Hangars at a POS. HTF am I supposed to tell what is what?
I've got a POS with multiple polymer reaction arrays.....beats the **** outta me which silo belongs to which array.
And oh, I like to have separate cargo windows open for every ship I'm flying so I know how much ammo and stuff I have left. The Unified inventory breaks that.
The unified inventory could be a great thing if 1) its implementation was thought out fully and 2) if the old system could be used for small scale stuff like. There's no ******* reason to have inventory for one individual ship to behave like an inventory at a corporate management level.
To give you an analog, what you've done is effectively prevented me from pulling out one file folder from a filing cabinet. No, instead, I have to lug the entire cabinet around if I want to carry that one file folder with me, regardless that I can choose to display only one file folder....that cabinet is still there rearing it's ugly head with every gate jump, every ship swap.
So, here's what you should do. Revert to old system, fix new system. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Jajas Helper
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 22:59:00 -
[249] - Quote
rofflesausage wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:There's a central design flaw with the concept of a "unified" inventory window. It makes the poor assumption that all locations should be treated equally and have equal precedence.
[post]
I just hope the devs see this, it's absolutely spot on. POS management tonight was quite frankly, hell.
It comes down to : why did we need a unified inventory again? when everything we do requires you to actualy see the "free/occupied" volume and/or multiple items crammed together into a container/cargo which one way or another needed to get moved into another container - with again limited volume.... removing the visual indicator of said free space ( if any ) can never be a good thing!
If to many containers are your problem then i really doubt you can memories every container's content. At this point you wont go any faster through the containers as you have to click every container in the tree now... if your problem was corp hangars, you now have to click on each tab in the treeline instead of going through the old tab system....
Again: anything this inventory can do is going to turn into the old system- open multiple windows with shift-click in the tree - then have those windows open next to eachother and see how much space is used/free in the containers we are using in the procces...
So one more time... why did we need this new system again..?
Atleast the old system was faster, more organized, and can i say better styles then what we have been rammed through our throats today... Except for the search option thingies... that looks awesome, just wondering why nobody in ccp failteam thought to just add that to the old system - using a dropdown menu next to the old search window... -> with having the tree inventory optional when clicking a button to searh ALL containers available in station/pos or wherever...
Then again, that sounds to obvious... lets **** some customers off instead O/ |
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
84
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 23:06:00 -
[250] - Quote
The chances of me not saying I told you so are slim.
I'm just going to point out how long back I and many, many others did!!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1317057#post1317057
I'm sorry CCP but I did tell you so.
Maybe next time you'll smegging listen!!! |
|
Cord Binchiette
Kzinti Hegemony
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 23:31:00 -
[251] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones.
Are you still laughing?
I don't understand how you guys could screw this up so badly. Really.
What do we have to do to get the old inventory back? |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 23:40:00 -
[252] - Quote
Cord Binchiette wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones. Are you still laughing? I don't understand how you guys could screw this up so badly. Really. What do we have to do to get the old inventory back?
I never laugh when idiots play with my hard time working won real money, it's worst than a slap in the face or kick in the balls.
|
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
164
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 23:46:00 -
[253] - Quote
Jajas Helper wrote:
Been here for years, and i actualy thought for a short time now that you guys got your **** together and actualy started listening to your customers who actualy care about this game and have invested alot of time into it (hence why we, the playerbase dont want this game to go to ****). Sadly I can only say... that you sirs have failed.
Dude, we really tried on the Sisi forums passionately for a solid month. It comes to TQ like a slap across our intelligence, sensibility, and our WALLETS. And that last point is where I strike back. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 23:49:00 -
[254] - Quote
Is it a bug that every time I click on my ship cargo in space to just check ammo I get a whole insane window full of crap that does stuff I have no use for?
If I just want to check ship cargo before I undock I also need to load my entire inventory of crap?
Which update will add dance emotes for our space barbies? |
Sup B1tches
Quovis CORE Alliance
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 23:53:00 -
[255] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones.
lol this is great! I lolled out loud when i pasted this here, quoting for posterity! |
Madlof Chev
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
66
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 00:10:00 -
[256] - Quote
Sweet jesus, this is the first patch attempting to rewrite a core part of functionality and you expect it to be sunshine and rainbows at zero-hour? There'll be a few patches and then your unicorns will start to jump up from the ground and dance the night away. Lawd. |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
165
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 00:13:00 -
[257] - Quote
Actually, now that I think about it, historically the Vikings did a really good job of pushing their agenda on other cultures without so much as a by-your-leave. Can this behavior be passed down ? Thoughts ? Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
ronna Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 00:20:00 -
[258] - Quote
This is a total logistics nightmare, I mine with 2 charaters, one flipping to a mammoth to haul ore in once an hour, Used to beable to just double click my ship, open the jetcan, drag and drop and voaala my mammoth was full. return the station, open items, doubleclick the mammoth, drag and drop, undock and repeated. The time in station was 5 seconds top. Now it takes me 30 seconds of window management on both ends, reducing my income by a (admittedly small) margin.
Please CCP this is turning into something worse than Incarna for me no choice to go back to the old system and it inflates my time in station to obscene levels, as incarna did, insted of load timers its window management
I do like how it does look, love the feel, just hate how it works. Please when you make changes like this.... log onto sisi and test it in every angle possible. I think the whole hauler thing was never covered because everyone on test server focuses on the combat aspects, I admit I too focus on combat when on test server. I never though of any possible issues when hauling my ore, If I had, I would have definately tested it and submitted my opinion.
I would recommend, personally, the session timers not toggeling the window, that it remembers which sub windows are open and when opened specifically (double clicking, not shift+click) that it pops out a window in a new window in the postion of it's having been opened previouslly. Thats my only issue
Please don't make fun of any typos I have made, Just look at what I mean by my post |
Styx Cyc
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 00:21:00 -
[259] - Quote
Red Rydah wrote:I actually like the new integrated inventory view, it's almost intuitive. I know there are some of you who do not like it, and I respect that viewpoint. As fellow subbers your opinion counts as much as mine does.
I offer a solution that has already been implimented regarding the ship spinning issue. You can toggle between CQ and the ship view with a single click. Let's try that with the inventory interface: if you click a toggle, it reverts to the old view people are accustomed to. For those of you like myself who like the new setup, we do not have to click that toggle, or click it where it does become convenient to work between both modes.
RR
That kind of thing while good at first, as the people get used to the new features, eventually ends up piling up code that is not really necessary, and overloads the game, at least in the case of the whole item storage. Keeping ship spinning is probably far less complex.
Its quite difficult to cater to everybody's tastes. |
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 00:30:00 -
[260] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote: Hey folks.
==>> edited for length by Ad'Hakim <<==
I'm sorry if people that have given us feedback have felt we didn't listen in the past few days, I hope this post has re-instated that we actually listen and act accordingly and have simply been doing nothing else since the release of our blog. In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed.
Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us.
Alright CCP Arrow, I'm willing to undertake a willing suspension of disbelief and assume that you, at least, will read this, and that your superiors will actual consider the idea that something is wrong - mm-kayyyy?
This 'improved' system adds unnecessary, unproductive activity. The system does not improve functionality, and degrades players' abilities to carry out routine tasks.
If you, and your superiors, insist on maintaining this system there is a step that you can take to minimize both the intense dissatisfaction and the growing anger. Yes, CCP Arrow, anger; listen to the POS owners and w/h dwellers.... you'll be hearing more from them, and far more loudly, and at an accelerated rate.
So, here's what you can do. Create a large, easy-to-reach button right next to the button that lets us opt out of Captain's Quarters. Let those of us who want to ( and we do want to ) opt out of this nonsense. Yes, CCP Arrow, I am ranking this nonsense right up there with CQ; both are fail to the same order of magnitude. |
|
Komen
Capital Enrichment Services The Night Crew Alliance
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 00:50:00 -
[261] - Quote
The new missile effects are sweet.
The new inventory is clunky, unwieldy, and shamefully lacking in the player feedback I saw in the feed-back section. Congrats, CCP. You haven't fixed anything in your company. All your talk of process improvements and better handling of personnel and feedback amounts to a giant pile of hot air. You have spent what seems to be a significant effort fixing something that wasn't broken, and in the process it's become less easy to use. Putting all the different inventories into one window means I can't look at two different inventories simultaneously, which makes moving stuff from a corp hangar array to my ship cargo a hell of a lot more of a burden than it used to be.
I run a 6 toon PI chain out of a POS in a wormhole. I have been trying to do it today with the new UI. What used to take me 45~ish minutes across all six has already taken more than that for the FIRST ******* PAIR.
Also we (my corp, CERS, and I) are running into quite a lot of problems with active modules not shutting off, and we had one toon not able to jump through a wormhole.
Congrats, CCP. ANother ****** SUMMER EXPANSION. What the **** is wrong with your company that every summer you **** up this badly?
Edit: Found a thing. Right-click on your ship's cargo, or a corp hangar, or other object, and you can 'open in new window'. So this doesn't completely suck. It's just MOSTLY suck. |
Grayson Gibbs
Capital Enrichment Services The Night Crew Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 00:54:00 -
[262] - Quote
Yes, I believe the The CERS collective will be taking a few days off from eve, at least until you people fix this colossal brain fart. Why, when a corp mate, switches ships, does it cause EVERY OTHER PILOT ON GRID lag out!? |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
167
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 00:57:00 -
[263] - Quote
Komen wrote:The new missile effects are sweet.
Your post would be much more effective to your intent if this statement were not the first thing read at the top. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Bauloe
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 00:58:00 -
[264] - Quote
I am finding the new unified inventory system being similar to windows 7
Try Shift click the tabs and it will open a new window. This should solve most people's problem.
I think old eve players will need to start leaning to use a computer.
|
Prisoner 002929
Wulgun Wing
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:01:00 -
[265] - Quote
Just let me turn it off. This is literally the new CQ. I didn't ask for it, I don't need it, and I don't want it. It makes my life WORSE. Give me a butan already so that I may push it. |
Komen
Capital Enrichment Services The Night Crew Alliance
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:01:00 -
[266] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Komen wrote:The new missile effects are sweet.
Your post would be much more effective to your intent if this statement were not the first thing read at the top.
Do you have anything useful to add to the discu...oh. your post history. Nevermind, answered my question. |
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
501
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:15:00 -
[267] - Quote
inferno is a step back. SKILL TRAINING MODE BEGINS again........ WINTER IS COMING!!! I have more space likes than you.-á |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
197
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:16:00 -
[268] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Blatant Forum Alt wrote:Then this is a problem with implementation, rather than design concepts, and most of the whining I've read has been about the change to a unified window - hence the troll post up there ^ Sure, I can agree with that. The problem is that a lot of the implementation issues seem like they are direct effects of the attempt to move towards that unified window. Somewhere along the line, the thought that maybe some things shouldn't be fully unified seems to have been overlooked. The whines about the unification is how that design concept imposes itself onto a lot of use cases that outright call for multiple windows. It's kind of the design version of GÇ£categorical statements are categorically falseGÇ¥. I can fully understand the exuberance in putting everything they could into this new system, but now they need to step back and see what about the old system was actually useful (even more useful than the new one, in some cases), and ensure that those pre-existing good solutions are not overwritten with bad ones.
One thing that should have been brought back is how you used to be able to minimalize chats to the bottom of the screen instead of into some hidden place in the sidebar ( if you are lucky... every once in a while it hides in CTRL-TAB & trying to explain that to the poor sap in chat because INFERNO HAS REALLY SCREWEDUP EVE VOICE is almost enough to make me wanna disband a fleet before it has even started EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec.CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
41
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:18:00 -
[269] - Quote
anyone just now trying to get used to it, just wait, it get so much better that after a few days you start kicking dogs and children, and you have no idea why. |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
168
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:31:00 -
[270] - Quote
Komen wrote:
Do you have anything useful to add to the discu...oh. your post history. Nevermind, answered my question.
I was trying to get your important and relevant post to get more attention, but if you want to be a d**k....... Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
|
Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:31:00 -
[271] - Quote
Bauloe wrote:I am finding the new unified inventory system being similar to windows 7
Try Shift click the tabs and it will open a new window. This should solve most people's problem.
I think old eve players will need to start leaning to use a computer.
Read the entire rest of the thread for multiple post explaining why the shift-click thing would be a great workaround.....if it at all stored window position/state, which it doesn't. |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
168
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:32:00 -
[272] - Quote
Bauloe wrote:
Try Shift click the tabs and it will open a new window. This should solve most people's problem.
IF YOU EVER UNDOCK THEY GO AWAY UTTERLY. JESUS. YOU LIKE THAT. HAVE A NICE EVENING.
iS THIS THING ON ?????????? Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
168
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:34:00 -
[273] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:anyone just now trying to get used to it, just wait, it get so much better that after a few days you start kicking dogs and children, and you have no idea why.
I'm already there with ya................ Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
168
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:35:00 -
[274] - Quote
Bauloe wrote:
I think old eve players will need to start leaning to use a computer.
That's a really DUMB thing to say. Your mother would be ashamed.
Besides I don't need help leaning on my computer. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Disdaine
278
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:43:00 -
[275] - Quote
Looting is now also a pain. Radar sites, some cans trigger a spawn that's guarding the container, some trigger a spawn that doesn't.
Only way to find out is to try to open the can. Now when you open a can that's being guarded you get the same old this can is being guarded message, but now it decides to open your inventory anyway, which you've then got to close so you can kill the rats guarding the can.
Why does it add a list of cans that I've already looted to the tree? I've looted them and moved on, if I want to revisit them to admire their emptiness I can select them in overview again. They're all out of range because I've moved on anyway, so if by some chance I left a gistum a-type in one by mistake I still have to fly to it anyway before I can use the new and convenient list of cans I've already looked at.
Bring back the small convenient loot windows. I'm not going to chuck a couple of containers in that can and reorganise the loot before I take it. It's unnecessary.
I'm prepared to give the new inventory a chance, but you're making it needlessly difficult. |
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
268
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:51:00 -
[276] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:Spice Weasel wrote:MotherMoon wrote: you're doing it wrong
What's the right way? A different way would be to left click the drone bay in the lower left corner of the fitting window.
And why would i want to open the fitting window when I just want to see my drone bay?
Nothing clever at this time. |
Agrapena
Ex Astrum.. The Fendahlian Collective
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:55:00 -
[277] - Quote
"Progress...... What is it?" - to quote the medicore Inferno trailer.
Not the new inventory system it seems..... |
David Gradivus
Pulsar Battalion
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 02:09:00 -
[278] - Quote
Yes, change the item UI back please. Or add an option |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
48
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 02:12:00 -
[279] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome. Let's do Unified PoniesGäó
Who's up for photoshop challenge ? |
Mulm
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 02:17:00 -
[280] - Quote
Option to undo new window "fix" please!
Unbearable and nearly unusable. Old system was sleek and easy, new system is super crap.
Open ship cargo on pos for ultimate surprise! |
|
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 02:18:00 -
[281] - Quote
I have a very awesome idea. Let's remove hangars and cargoholds from ships. Also high slots have to be removed.
This changes will make eve super awesome. I think i deserve a medal for this awesome idea. |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
171
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 02:33:00 -
[282] - Quote
Spc One wrote:I have a very awesome idea. Let's remove hangars and cargoholds from ships. Also high slots have to be removed.
This changes will make eve super awesome. I think i deserve a medal for this awesome idea.
And I'm sure CCP will pull it off with Flair. I think that God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability. In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
118
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 02:42:00 -
[283] - Quote
Mulm wrote:Option to undo new window "fix" please!
Unbearable and nearly unusable. Old system was sleek and easy, new system is super crap.
Open ship cargo on pos for ultimate surprise!
Even better have a corp mate board a ship from the hangar while you are moving stuff at the pos... watch the fun as your computer takes its own life |
Styx Cyc
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 02:56:00 -
[284] - Quote
After finally getting the game going since the patch made launcher crap on itself, to be honest I can't tell while the fuss is all about with the whole items hangar thing.
There isn't that much of a difference, really, other than not having extra stuff cluttering the view.
Also, can't tell the difference between Amarr ships. Maybe I'm blind... |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 03:05:00 -
[285] - Quote
The biggest nerf of all nefs: New Unified UI |
Lord Skyfire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 03:12:00 -
[286] - Quote
Styx Cyc wrote:After finally getting the game going since the patch made launcher crap on itself, to be honest I can't tell while the fuss is all about with the whole items hangar thing.
There isn't that much of a difference, really, other than not having extra stuff cluttering the view.
Also, can't tell the difference between Amarr ships. Maybe I'm blind...
See my friend, there are two types of people. You got the people A) Who don't own very much and thus don't really give a damn about the new "unified windows" and then you other type of people B) Who do own many things and now find it disorientating to find their usual "separated" stuff to now be one giant clusterfuck of a window
Lets not even get started on the mayhem a POS will cause. God, spent hours trying to figure **** out to workaround it. Assembly arrays were hiding between guns. (Never understood why I need to see things beyond my capability to reach, or at least sort the stuff in the index by distance; surely we can look around and notice that we are a bit too far to put ammo in the guns). |
JEZEB
Stainless Steel Federation
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 03:27:00 -
[287] - Quote
Styx Cyc wrote:After finally getting the game going since the patch made launcher crap on itself, to be honest I can't tell while the fuss is all about with the whole items hangar thing.
There isn't that much of a difference, really, other than not having extra stuff cluttering the view.
Also, can't tell the difference between Amarr ships. Maybe I'm blind...
So what you're saying is that you JUST got on and you have no idea what the fuss is about because you have tried to use the functinality of the, now broken, inventory UI? Why bother with a post, you need to go play the game for a couple of hours and I am sure your opinion on the subject will gain merit. Until then, do act all confused at why we are pissed that CCP totally botched the inventory UI all to hell.
IT DOES NOT WORK.
I find it funny that most of these comments that say, "Oh, I don't know what the fuss is about, it's almost better than before." Or, "I like this better, all you have to do is shift + click and open a new window." These people have not done anything with the game yet. Yes you can open new windows but they GO AWAY after you do practically anything!!
Seriously, those of you that like this really have no idea what you're doing. Go play some Diablows III, it has GOT to be at your level of gamer. |
Styx Cyc
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 03:45:00 -
[288] - Quote
So much anger, lol.
I have used the new UI, and again I can't see what the fuss is all about. I did a few trade and hauling runs and a mission, and took me the exact same amount of time and effort than with the old UI.
Now, if you are gonna end with a severe case of the proverbial "silica in your female genitalia" just because someone doesn't seem to have as much issue with the new UI as you do, maybe it is you who should go play something else and calm down, specially since you seem to be the one who can't figure things out, so maybe Diablo is more suitable to you. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1282
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 04:15:00 -
[289] - Quote
Thing is...
...after you have given variable feedback for one month... ...made sure that all involved developers and their superiors are aware about the problems... ...contacted CSM directly through email... ...tweeted warnings about Unified Inventory even to Hilmar... ...specially pointed out that it is absolutely reckless move to release before proper multi window support is included... ...been given answers like:
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome.
CCP Arrow wrote:we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones.
CCP Optimal wrote: Yes, just SHIFT+click an inventory tree entry to open it up in a new window. This new window will open up with it's tree view collapsed by default. You can effectively have as many instances of the inventory window open as you want.
CCP Goliath wrote:Everyone talking about multiple windows - you know that shift clicking opens up a new window right?
CCP Optimal wrote:Just wanted to note that due to popular demand we've made changes so that the inventory window will have two sets of width, height, position and tree collapsed/expanded settings; one for stations and one for space, so you'll be able to configure it as you please for both scenarios.
....continued in next post....
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1282
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 04:16:00 -
[290] - Quote
....continued from previous post....
CCP Goliath wrote: Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself.
CCP Goliath wrote: I personally look at it more like the evolution from a Flintstones model of car (totally functional, pretty basic) to a modern day automobile - there's a ton of bells and whistles on it, you're not sure if you need or want them all (but hey they're free so might as well take them), the only drawback is you need to learn how to drive it!
CCP RubberBAND wrote: Personally having used the new system for a few months I would never go back to the old system. A few things to note; ....plenty of stuff.... Finally a big concern that is being raised again and again, is multiple window usage. We are already investigating this and hope that we can fix it in time.
However on a personal note, every time I have to go back from the Unified Inventory to multiple windows, I cringe. We understand the usability concerns raised here, but once people have been given some time to acclimatize themselves, we strongly believe that this will provide the best user experience.
I will talk to CCP Optimal and CCP Arrow tomorrow first thing, since they are both out of office now.
CCP Arrow wrote: It's not that we don't believe you when you say that there is a problem, we do believe you, but instead of acting directly on the feedback we get on the forums, we need to recreate the situation players are describing so that we see the problems in action. This allows us to make design decisions that are more accurate than trying to interpret what we read on the forums and directly implement fixes based on that.
....continued in next post....
Get |
|
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1282
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 04:20:00 -
[291] - Quote
....continued from previous post....
Smoking Blunts wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:...and what kind of version are we expecting to see in tranq next week or will this project be delayed? Going on Tranq next week! ccp pushing out half finished stuff with reduced functionality? again? Smoking Blunts being overly dramatic? Again? lol nah no weed smoked today. the system thats on sisi now has and is missing functions that teh current tq system has. ive detailed them above, check it out bud
....continued in next post....
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1282
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 04:22:00 -
[292] - Quote
....continued from previous post....
CCP Soundwave wrote: Should be getting Sisi updates before Tranq!
....you just want to go shoot the statue when the unfinished junk ends up to the tranq just like nothing happened...
This is how CCP works.
Get |
Disdaine
279
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 04:22:00 -
[293] - Quote
We get to do their beta testing for them, then they ignore the results.
Excellence. |
Lugaedh
Bluestar Enterprises The Craftsmen
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 04:48:00 -
[294] - Quote
Still no reply CCP?
Sticking the head in the sand as usual?
No sane player
having something to move, wanting to loot missions, runnning a POS or just and simple using corp hangars regularily
would have approved this massive BULLSH*T of an "upgrade".
STOP talking this failure better then it is.
DO YOU REALLY WANT a 100 page thread here? Was ONE BIG SHITSTORM NOT ENOUGH?
Many players ares just starting to realize how awful the unified inventory is. in my alliance, i have just asked to try some usual stuff you usually so... hm - they really "love" your "quality assured" pile of usability downgrade....
Please, be reasonable and LISTEN to us, your customers. |
Push ButtonGet Bacon
Shiva GIANTSBANE.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 05:02:00 -
[295] - Quote
As a miner who multi-boxs several clients at once this new inventory system is a new nightmare from hell.
While the mineral prices had made it worth mining again. Im strongly considering unsubbing all my mining accounts because the sheer stress of this new horrible inventory system makes the job so much more insufferable.
|
Geodeath
Fist of God
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 05:06:00 -
[296] - Quote
I think we are all just gonna be stuck with a turd on our screen and a fleshy, cylindrical object (with a nifty ccp tattoo on it) planted firmly and permanently in our exhaust ports. Sounds to me like a bunch of borking developers can never admit when they are wrong and listen to the people who put real life iskies in their pockets.
Happy patchday, now eat **** and smile. |
Rath Kelbore
Spaceship Hooligan Productions
198
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 05:08:00 -
[297] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Seems like despite huge advantages with the new system, some small bits of functionality need to be added here and there. Top that off with a liberal helping of people complaining because they can't use their clunky work arounds anymore. Pretty optimistic to call them bits small, but if that works for you who am I to say. I find the original idea of one window for everything and no real support for others being quite big "bit" myself. This is in test server - yes. Dev blog is out - yes. Dev response to fundamental issues - none. Read the entire comment thread... at least up to page 24 and you get the whole idea what this is about. I'm not whining here just to for whining. In fact I rather would do something else atm :) The details are all there. I read it. You can drag anything you like to the "tree" on the left to move things around. Shift click on the tree to open another window if you prefer means there isn't much left to complain about. Most of the rest are niche cases or center around wanting to do things in a somewhat eccentric way. For the vast majority of routine tasks this is much easier, only for some things does it require an extra click or two. I stand by my original statement.
Agreeing with ranger here. The new setup is better. God forbid you might have to change the way uou do something, especially when the new way is easiser. I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1647
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 05:16:00 -
[298] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself.
This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting.
I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
695
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 05:24:00 -
[299] - Quote
I hate this 'improved' inventory 14 |
Sturmwolke
173
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 05:53:00 -
[300] - Quote
mxzf wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself. This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting. I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all.
What a CCP dev needs to learn is not to blab himself into an extended negative discourse in the EVE forums. Keep to objective professional responses. The above response, whatever the context was, is typical reaction from a youngish rookie who gets overly annoyed and lashes out with a polite un-intelligent remark that ultimately ... means nothing.
Now, of course, they can choose to ignore this wisdom and carry on as before. I wouldn't mind gleefully reading their antics.
|
|
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
486
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 06:00:00 -
[301] - Quote
I really like this quote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:CCP Arrow wrote: It's not that we don't believe you when you say that there is a problem, we do believe you, but instead of acting directly on the feedback we get on the forums, we need to recreate the situation players are describing so that we see the problems in action. This allows us to make design decisions that are more accurate than trying to interpret what we read on the forums and directly implement fixes based on that.
....continued in next post....
It shows that these dev's just don't play EVE. Ergo they have no idea what they are doing.
I dare them to fuel a POS from an Orca the old way and the new way and tell us the new way is better. Who needs television when you have EVE? EVE drama, best drama. |
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 06:13:00 -
[302] - Quote
I emailed CCP Guard, and CCP Unifex and have been posting on the Sisi forums / bug thread for the last few weeks in regards to the new unified inventory.
I received no response. I predicted a **** storm that would eclipse all of the good that was in inferno with the rage that the community would respond with once they started to use the new unified inventory. Sad that the obvious has happened, its also sad that the response from the Devs monitoring these posts has been so poor. Watching them trying to answer the concerns without ever commiting to a roll back , a delay to rolling this out or an option to allow player choice with this has been painful to watch.
The real reason why this has been released has yet to be clearly explained by CCP. Many of us have suggested that is to do with either anti bot or playstation controller like interface, we have never had a clear answer ever.
Didn't ask for this, the community doesnt appear to like it one bit, this is really looking like another INCARNA moment where CCP states it has listened but has implemented something unasked for with motives that are murky at best.
ROLL IT BACK NOW. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
291
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 06:23:00 -
[303] - Quote
I guess besides the bugs... the problem with the new unified inventory is that it's too unified... they should have taken it more slowly with this stuff, have kept the hangar, cargobay seperate, and make ship cargo/dronebay open seperately... and make it optional to combine them (like some settings window under the unified inventory. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 06:26:00 -
[304] - Quote
The new inventory system should have replaced the Asset window. That is where I would have liked the new features it offers.
It makes simple things like moving stuff to and from cargoholds tedious. It's just too much information when I just want to do a simple task. |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
779
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 06:26:00 -
[305] - Quote
Maraner wrote:I emailed CCP Guard, and CCP Unifex and have been posting on the Sisi forums / bug thread for the last few weeks in regards to the new unified inventory.
I received no response. I predicted a **** storm that would eclipse all of the good that was in inferno with the rage that the community would respond with once they started to use the new unified inventory. Sad that the obvious has happened, its also sad that the response from the Devs monitoring these posts has been so poor. Watching them trying to answer the concerns without ever commiting to a roll back , a delay to rolling this out or an option to allow player choice with this has been painful to watch.
The real reason why this has been released has yet to be clearly explained by CCP. Many of us have suggested that is to do with either anti bot or playstation controller like interface, we have never had a clear answer ever.
Didn't ask for this, the community doesnt appear to like it one bit, this is really looking like another INCARNA moment where CCP states it has listened but has implemented something unasked for with motives that are murky at best.
ROLL IT BACK NOW. lmao...
The playstation controller part made me laugh so hard.
So funny. Will read again. |
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 06:35:00 -
[306] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Maraner wrote:I emailed CCP Guard, and CCP Unifex and have been posting on the Sisi forums / bug thread for the last few weeks in regards to the new unified inventory.
I received no response. I predicted a **** storm that would eclipse all of the good that was in inferno with the rage that the community would respond with once they started to use the new unified inventory. Sad that the obvious has happened, its also sad that the response from the Devs monitoring these posts has been so poor. Watching them trying to answer the concerns without ever commiting to a roll back , a delay to rolling this out or an option to allow player choice with this has been painful to watch.
The real reason why this has been released has yet to be clearly explained by CCP. Many of us have suggested that is to do with either anti bot or playstation controller like interface, we have never had a clear answer ever.
Didn't ask for this, the community doesnt appear to like it one bit, this is really looking like another INCARNA moment where CCP states it has listened but has implemented something unasked for with motives that are murky at best.
ROLL IT BACK NOW. lmao... The playstation controller part made me laugh so hard. So funny. Will read again.
Glad you found it funny chuckles, since the community is loving the Unified inventory and CCP would never put a feature in the game that enrages the player base, can you suggest why a tree based inventory system has been implemented? Or will you post something else that involves using lmao. |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
779
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 06:42:00 -
[307] - Quote
Maraner wrote:non judgement wrote:Maraner wrote:I emailed CCP Guard, and CCP Unifex and have been posting on the Sisi forums / bug thread for the last few weeks in regards to the new unified inventory.
I received no response. I predicted a **** storm that would eclipse all of the good that was in inferno with the rage that the community would respond with once they started to use the new unified inventory. Sad that the obvious has happened, its also sad that the response from the Devs monitoring these posts has been so poor. Watching them trying to answer the concerns without ever commiting to a roll back , a delay to rolling this out or an option to allow player choice with this has been painful to watch.
The real reason why this has been released has yet to be clearly explained by CCP. Many of us have suggested that is to do with either anti bot or playstation controller like interface, we have never had a clear answer ever.
Didn't ask for this, the community doesnt appear to like it one bit, this is really looking like another INCARNA moment where CCP states it has listened but has implemented something unasked for with motives that are murky at best.
ROLL IT BACK NOW. lmao... The playstation controller part made me laugh so hard. So funny. Will read again. Gald you found it funny chuckles, since the community is loving the Unified inventory and CCP would never put a feature in the game that enrages the player base, can you suggest why a tree based inventory system has been implemented? Or will you post something else that involves using lmao. lmao
Okay.
lmao (still laughing)
They had to update the code for it, since the inventory probably has not changed for ages. They came up with this new one.
The more you change something, the more people get angry. This obviously was too much of a change for some people. It will take a bit of getting used to.
I still haven't figured out how I'm going to position my windows but it hasn't ruined the game I like. My laughing at people getting angry, I can only hope, will make others see how funny it is that they this angry about it?
Who knew that people would be so emotionally attached to the old inventory windows.
Don't ask me why they had to update it but I'm sure they had a good enough reason... |
Fraila Twi
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 06:45:00 -
[308] - Quote
It sucks, please kill it |
Khors
Radio Dunkelheit
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 06:52:00 -
[309] - Quote
I never asked for this... |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
67
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 06:54:00 -
[310] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Maraner wrote:non judgement wrote:Maraner wrote:I emailed CCP Guard, and CCP Unifex and have been posting on the Sisi forums / bug thread for the last few weeks in regards to the new unified inventory.
I received no response. I predicted a **** storm that would eclipse all of the good that was in inferno with the rage that the community would respond with once they started to use the new unified inventory. Sad that the obvious has happened, its also sad that the response from the Devs monitoring these posts has been so poor. Watching them trying to answer the concerns without ever commiting to a roll back , a delay to rolling this out or an option to allow player choice with this has been painful to watch.
The real reason why this has been released has yet to be clearly explained by CCP. Many of us have suggested that is to do with either anti bot or playstation controller like interface, we have never had a clear answer ever.
Didn't ask for this, the community doesnt appear to like it one bit, this is really looking like another INCARNA moment where CCP states it has listened but has implemented something unasked for with motives that are murky at best.
ROLL IT BACK NOW. lmao... The playstation controller part made me laugh so hard. So funny. Will read again. Gald you found it funny chuckles, since the community is loving the Unified inventory and CCP would never put a feature in the game that enrages the player base, can you suggest why a tree based inventory system has been implemented? Or will you post something else that involves using lmao. lmao Okay. lmao (still laughing) They had to update the code for it, since the inventory probably has not changed for ages. They came up with this new one. The more you change something, the more people get angry. This obviously was too much of a change for some people. It will take a bit of getting used to. I still haven't figured out how I'm going to position my windows but it hasn't ruined the game I like. My laughing at people getting angry, I can only hope, will make others see how funny it is that they this angry about it? Who knew that people would be so emotionally attached to the old inventory windows. Don't ask me why they had to update it but I'm sure they had a good enough reason... They would have known it would get this kind of response from some people.
keep laughing when no one is playing |
|
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 06:55:00 -
[311] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Maraner wrote:non judgement wrote:Maraner wrote:I emailed CCP Guard, and CCP Unifex and have been posting on the Sisi forums / bug thread for the last few weeks in regards to the new unified inventory.
I received no response. I predicted a **** storm that would eclipse all of the good that was in inferno with the rage that the community would respond with once they started to use the new unified inventory. Sad that the obvious has happened, its also sad that the response from the Devs monitoring these posts has been so poor. Watching them trying to answer the concerns without ever commiting to a roll back , a delay to rolling this out or an option to allow player choice with this has been painful to watch.
The real reason why this has been released has yet to be clearly explained by CCP. Many of us have suggested that is to do with either anti bot or playstation controller like interface, we have never had a clear answer ever.
Didn't ask for this, the community doesnt appear to like it one bit, this is really looking like another INCARNA moment where CCP states it has listened but has implemented something unasked for with motives that are murky at best.
ROLL IT BACK NOW. lmao... The playstation controller part made me laugh so hard. So funny. Will read again. Gald you found it funny chuckles, since the community is loving the Unified inventory and CCP would never put a feature in the game that enrages the player base, can you suggest why a tree based inventory system has been implemented? Or will you post something else that involves using lmao. lmao Okay. lmao (still laughing) They had to update the code for it, since the inventory probably has not changed for ages. They came up with this new one. The more you change something, the more people get angry. This obviously was too much of a change for some people. It will take a bit of getting used to. I still haven't figured out how I'm going to position my windows but it hasn't ruined the game I like. My laughing at people getting angry, I can only hope, will make others see how funny it is that they this angry about it? Who knew that people would be so emotionally attached to the old inventory windows. Don't ask me why they had to update it but I'm sure they had a good enough reason... They would have known it would get this kind of response from some people.
They may well have had a good reason, none of us know what it is. As to getting angry about the old system being replaced with the new, yeah I'm pissed about it, the community managed to get things changed in the past, incarna got recognised for the POS that it was and RMT was stopped in its tracks, of course thats up to people that actually state an opinion on things and try to get change. Beats running through life starting sentences with lmao. |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
779
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 07:01:00 -
[312] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:keep laughing when no one is playing You know that some people unsubbed because of the new font? To me, this is the same kind of thing.
After all, it's just the inventory.
How you fly ships and shoot other people in the game hasn't changed at all.
I know life can be hard sometimes. If you really want to be angry, there are more serious things to get angry about in life than this. |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
779
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 07:04:00 -
[313] - Quote
Maraner wrote: They may well have had a good reason, none of us know what it is. As to getting angry about the old system being replaced with the new, yeah I'm pissed about it, the community managed to get things changed in the past, incarna got recognised for the POS that it was and RMT was stopped in its tracks, of course thats up to people that actually state an opinion on things and try to get change. Beats running through life starting sentences with lmao.
lmao
(seriously thinking about starting every post with it - I really had a strong urge to just have the lmao as the only thing in the post. Please see my other reply about new font) |
Khors
Radio Dunkelheit
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 07:11:00 -
[314] - Quote
non judgement wrote:lmao Okay. lmao (still laughing) They had to update the code for it, since the inventory probably has not changed for ages. They came up with this new one. The more you change something, the more people get angry. This obviously was too much of a change for some people. It will take a bit of getting used to. I still haven't figured out how I'm going to position my windows but it hasn't ruined the game I like. My laughing at people getting angry, I can only hope, will make others see how funny it is that they this angry about it? Who knew that people would be so emotionally attached to the old inventory windows. Don't ask me why they had to update it but I'm sure they had a good enough reason... They would have known it would get this kind of response from some people.
People aren't raging because they are emotionally attached to the old inventory. They are raging because the old one was fine, and now the new one made the simple things a massive pain in the ass. Compare it to the changes of the Neocom in Crucible. Sure, some people raged, but it was mostly well received, as it was an actual improvement. Not gimping the old functionality and adding new instead. It's not changes that pisses people off, it's bad changes.
The unified item window removes the simpleness of pulling up the two relevant items windows you want to move stuff between and just do it. Which is the most common thing you do when you move items around.
Sure, you can shift-click and it opens a new window, but that's just reinforcing my point here. It has made the simple stuff needing more work. It's not an improvement, and when people never asked for a big change to the inventory system in the first place, that makes them mad. Imagine if every food company out there started only making child-resistant packaging. People would rage. Not because they are too dumb to open it, not because they worry that their children will have problem. But because it's annoying as hell.
And yes, people rage quiting over this are funny. But people being angry about it? Hardly surprising.
|
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 07:12:00 -
[315] - Quote
Spitfire is posting in russian, trying to calm them down on a thread somewhere, its neat |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
779
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 07:18:00 -
[316] - Quote
Khors wrote:non judgement wrote:lmao Okay. lmao (still laughing) They had to update the code for it, since the inventory probably has not changed for ages. They came up with this new one. The more you change something, the more people get angry. This obviously was too much of a change for some people. It will take a bit of getting used to. I still haven't figured out how I'm going to position my windows but it hasn't ruined the game I like. My laughing at people getting angry, I can only hope, will make others see how funny it is that they this angry about it? Who knew that people would be so emotionally attached to the old inventory windows. Don't ask me why they had to update it but I'm sure they had a good enough reason... They would have known it would get this kind of response from some people. People aren't raging because they are emotionally attached to the old inventory. They are raging because the old one was fine, and now the new one made the simple things a massive pain in the ass. Compare it to the changes of the Neocom in Crucible. Sure, some people raged, but it was mostly well received, as it was an actual improvement. Not gimping the old functionality and adding new instead. It's not changes that pisses people off, it's bad changes. The unified item window removes the simpleness of pulling up the two relevant items windows you want to move stuff between and just do it. Which is the most common thing you do when you move items around. Sure, you can shift-click and it opens a new window, but that's just reinforcing my point here. It has made the simple stuff needing more work. It's not an improvement, and when people never asked for a big change to the inventory system in the first place, that makes them mad. Imagine if every food company out there started only making child-resistant packaging. People would rage. Not because they are too dumb to open it, not because they worry that their children will have problem. But because it's annoying as hell. And yes, people rage quiting over this are funny. But people being angry about it? Hardly surprising. Well, I'm not that surprised either.
This should have calmed down most people though |
Lugaedh
Bluestar Enterprises The Craftsmen
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 07:20:00 -
[317] - Quote
no, just the usual blabla of CCP. nothing concrete. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 07:22:00 -
[318] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Khors wrote:non judgement wrote:lmao Okay. lmao (still laughing) They had to update the code for it, since the inventory probably has not changed for ages. They came up with this new one. The more you change something, the more people get angry. This obviously was too much of a change for some people. It will take a bit of getting used to. I still haven't figured out how I'm going to position my windows but it hasn't ruined the game I like. My laughing at people getting angry, I can only hope, will make others see how funny it is that they this angry about it? Who knew that people would be so emotionally attached to the old inventory windows. Don't ask me why they had to update it but I'm sure they had a good enough reason... They would have known it would get this kind of response from some people. People aren't raging because they are emotionally attached to the old inventory. They are raging because the old one was fine, and now the new one made the simple things a massive pain in the ass. Compare it to the changes of the Neocom in Crucible. Sure, some people raged, but it was mostly well received, as it was an actual improvement. Not gimping the old functionality and adding new instead. It's not changes that pisses people off, it's bad changes. The unified item window removes the simpleness of pulling up the two relevant items windows you want to move stuff between and just do it. Which is the most common thing you do when you move items around. Sure, you can shift-click and it opens a new window, but that's just reinforcing my point here. It has made the simple stuff needing more work. It's not an improvement, and when people never asked for a big change to the inventory system in the first place, that makes them mad. Imagine if every food company out there started only making child-resistant packaging. People would rage. Not because they are too dumb to open it, not because they worry that their children will have problem. But because it's annoying as hell. And yes, people rage quiting over this are funny. But people being angry about it? Hardly surprising. Well, I'm not that surprised either. This should have calmed down most people though
Because the same team was so great about taking our suggestions about the new neocom? It took this long for them to let us name the folders? Is this some kind of joke? If you need a competent game designer, I'm available and affordable |
Sup B1tches
Quovis CORE Alliance
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 07:22:00 -
[319] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:keep laughing when no one is playing You know that some people unsubbed because of the new font? To me, this is the same kind of thing. After all, it's just the inventory. How you fly ships and shoot other people in the game hasn't changed at all.
It has actually... the selling of anything on the market now costs more to do so, the cost to invent T2 has increased, mining ore is now harder to do in fleets with an Orca....
|
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
147
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 07:23:00 -
[320] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey folks.
I just wanted to restate what we said in the Dev blog for the Unified Inventory that we wanted to get feedback from those that use SiSi in order to address problems that would occur. We intended on following heavily up on the feedback, doing as much as possible before launch as well as doing even further iterations and fixes in the upcoming release. Team Game of Drones is committed to a new methodology of using the principals of User Centered Design, where the User Experience of our players drives our design decisions.
Not only did we collect all feedback from the Forums, personal posts, Twitter comments and other sources but we took the issues many of you like Grey Stormshadow, Tippia and other have been pointing out and created a User Testing plan which we facilitated last week. In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.
Once we had collected all the date from the tests we created stories and design updates which have either already been submitted to the next SiSi build, or we are actively working on or have been put into our backlog of work stories which we will address as priority stories before we start working on other features for next release.
I'm sorry if people that have given us feedback have felt we didn't listen in the past few days, I hope this post has re-instated that we actually listen and act accordingly and have simply been doing nothing else since the release of our blog. In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed.
Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us.
Problem is you didnt listen, if you had it would not have kicked off (and still going) after the patch. You where told it would be unpopular. why still go live with it.
Tal
|
|
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
779
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 07:31:00 -
[321] - Quote
Sup B1tches wrote:non judgement wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:keep laughing when no one is playing You know that some people unsubbed because of the new font? To me, this is the same kind of thing. After all, it's just the inventory. How you fly ships and shoot other people in the game hasn't changed at all. It has actually... the selling of anything on the market now costs more to do so, the cost to invent T2 has increased, mining ore is now harder to do in fleets with an Orca.... Yeah, interesting changes.
I use an Orca myself. I thought the corp hanger change was a bit odd.
The other changes are a bit like the changes to the PI taxes and Custom Offices. Just pushing up the price of things. They did say they wanted to make changes like that. Not enough isk sinks or something.
I did say how you fly and shoot others. I don't know many people who use Orcas in pvp. Maybe some people do. |
Styx Cyc
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 07:56:00 -
[322] - Quote
mxzf wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself. This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting. I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all.
As a programmer then you would also know there is something known as Resistance to Change. While I agree some people have valid gripes about the new UI, a lot of it just seem to be complaining for the sake of it, specially when people outright tell you "I will never get used to it!!!!!11111", and the new UI is barely 24 hours old.
Been there done that. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
149
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 08:15:00 -
[323] - Quote
Styx Cyc wrote:mxzf wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself. This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting. I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all. As a programmer then you would also know there is something known as Resistance to Change. While I agree some people have valid gripes about the new UI, a lot of it just seem to be complaining for the sake of it, specially when people outright tell you "I will never get used to it!!!!!11111", and the new UI is barely 24 hours old. Been there done that.
You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI)
|
Styx Cyc
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 08:19:00 -
[324] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote: You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI)
There will always be resistance to change. Specially when a userbase has been doing things a certain way for a large number of years. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace n Quiet
135
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 08:20:00 -
[325] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Styx Cyc wrote:mxzf wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself. This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting. I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all. As a programmer then you would also know there is something known as Resistance to Change. While I agree some people have valid gripes about the new UI, a lot of it just seem to be complaining for the sake of it, specially when people outright tell you "I will never get used to it!!!!!11111", and the new UI is barely 24 hours old. Been there done that. You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI)
And yet people still buy Microsoft products..........
|
Jajas Helper
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 08:46:00 -
[326] - Quote
Styx Cyc wrote:So much anger, lol.
I have used the new UI, and again I can't see what the fuss is all about. I did a few trade and hauling runs and a mission, and took me the exact same amount of time and effort than with the old UI.
Now, if you are gonna end with a severe case of the proverbial "silica in your female genitalia" just because someone doesn't seem to have as much issue with the new UI as you do, maybe it is you who should go play something else and calm down, specially since you seem to be the one who can't figure things out, so maybe Diablo is more suitable to you.
let me repeat the problem here: "took me the exact same amount of time and effort than with the old UI"
so you agree here that ccp wasted a shitton of effort on this unified window without showing any progress or making life easier, things faster. While at the same time making it worse for people who do pos things ( with 100+ mods, cargoholds- cluttering the unified window), mining is a huge pain in the as awell, i'm sure there are other things that now are more annoying aswell...
So, thank you, for agreeing with us, the expansion added nothing to playerbase, and made it worse for people who are now beeing forced to look at/load cargo containers that they never had to use before this patch.
Ohyah, everyone who is going on about "shitf+click to open new windows, the system works great like that" should realise that this is a way to reproduce the old system. So I would like to thank those people aswell for agreeing with us that the old system was easier to use, why else are you using the shift+click methode in this new and amazing window?
Bottom line: the new system added no faster and easier organization, and in most cases it made it all worse. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 08:48:00 -
[327] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Styx Cyc wrote:mxzf wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself. This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting. I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all. As a programmer then you would also know there is something known as Resistance to Change. While I agree some people have valid gripes about the new UI, a lot of it just seem to be complaining for the sake of it, specially when people outright tell you "I will never get used to it!!!!!11111", and the new UI is barely 24 hours old. Been there done that. You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI)
That is not true at all, people are known to resist what is good for them all the time.
|
Di Mulle
64
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 08:53:00 -
[328] - Quote
knulla wrote:
That is not true at all, people are known to resist what is good for them all the time.
It is true.
Just another thing is also true, you are making a classic logical mistake, by assuming "all whats is resisted is good". <<Insert some waste of screen space here>> |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
185
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:03:00 -
[329] - Quote
I think a big part of this is that fact that it was tested for some weeks on the test server and much feedback was given and seems to have been ignored. The new inventory isn't unusable but needs quite a bit of work to make it worthy of full release on the live server and a lot of the issues that we're seeing could have been ironed out before Inferno and people aren't happy about not being heard when they provided feedback.
I'm getting used to the new UI but it's still got a way to go before it's smooth and allows us to do things that we could with the old multiple windows system. One feature I'd like is to be able to open up hangars and containers with just a double click from the left hand menu, I tried that last night but no go unfortunately. If the Sims all became zombies it would be easy to escape them, just shove them in a room and make them answer the telephone. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:05:00 -
[330] - Quote
Di Mulle wrote:knulla wrote:
That is not true at all, people are known to resist what is good for them all the time.
It is true. Just another thing is also true, you are making a classic logical mistake, by assuming "all whats is resisted is good".
No I did not, I stated that people resist good things all the time and therefore he cannot use that as an argument.
I will let you know when I have an opinion on the UI, give me a week and I will have a good answer. |
|
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:06:00 -
[331] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey folks.
I just wanted to restate what we said in the Dev blog for the Unified Inventory that we wanted to get feedback from those that use SiSi in order to address problems that would occur. We intended on following heavily up on the feedback, doing as much as possible before launch as well as doing even further iterations and fixes in the upcoming release. Team Game of Drones is committed to a new methodology of using the principals of User Centered Design, where the User Experience of our players drives our design decisions.
Not only did we collect all feedback from the Forums, personal posts, Twitter comments and other sources but we took the issues many of you like Grey Stormshadow, Tippia and other have been pointing out and created a User Testing plan which we facilitated last week. In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.
Once we had collected all the date from the tests we created stories and design updates which have either already been submitted to the next SiSi build, or we are actively working on or have been put into our backlog of work stories which we will address as priority stories before we start working on other features for next release.
I'm sorry if people that have given us feedback have felt we didn't listen in the past few days, I hope this post has re-instated that we actually listen and act accordingly and have simply been doing nothing else since the release of our blog. In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed.
Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us.
Words.
We actually feel once again you guys don't give a crap about our feedback. From who do you guys take feedback from to think this feature was at a sufficient status/improvement for our gaming experience?
We're sure it's not from the community, despite how many words you guys can throw at us it's a lie. We told you this was a nice base for improvements but in need of serious work so this feature is not implemented half finished and bring us a worst game experience than older feature.
Now live on TQ and it's just completely impossible for me to have a decent time gaming (gaming is supposed to mean fun, right?), how much fun do you guys have wasting a whole expansion with a single feature?
Yes wasted, because I just can't play decently be at station trading/industry be at hauling or just set my assets split in several stations and actually in space is just awful to even find/select my ammo/load when usually was just drag/drop easily. You might think it's easier because you're told to but it's not.
And I'm not having a good laugh at all. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:12:00 -
[332] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:Hey folks.
I just wanted to restate what we said in the Dev blog for the Unified Inventory that we wanted to get feedback from those that use SiSi in order to address problems that would occur. We intended on following heavily up on the feedback, doing as much as possible before launch as well as doing even further iterations and fixes in the upcoming release. Team Game of Drones is committed to a new methodology of using the principals of User Centered Design, where the User Experience of our players drives our design decisions.
Not only did we collect all feedback from the Forums, personal posts, Twitter comments and other sources but we took the issues many of you like Grey Stormshadow, Tippia and other have been pointing out and created a User Testing plan which we facilitated last week. In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.
Once we had collected all the date from the tests we created stories and design updates which have either already been submitted to the next SiSi build, or we are actively working on or have been put into our backlog of work stories which we will address as priority stories before we start working on other features for next release.
I'm sorry if people that have given us feedback have felt we didn't listen in the past few days, I hope this post has re-instated that we actually listen and act accordingly and have simply been doing nothing else since the release of our blog. In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed.
Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us. Words. We actually feel once again you guys don't give a crap about our feedback. From who do you guys take feedback from to think this feature was at a sufficient status/improvement for our gaming experience? We're sure it's not from the community, despite how many words you guys can throw at us it's a lie. We told you this was a nice base for improvements but in need of serious work so this feature is not implemented half finished and bring us a worst game experience than older feature. Now live on TQ and it's just completely impossible for me to have a decent time gaming (gaming is supposed to mean fun, right?), how much fun do you guys have wasting a whole expansion with a single feature? Yes wasted, because I just can't play decently be at station trading/industry be at hauling or just set my assets split in several stations and actually in space is just awful to even find/select my ammo/load when usually was just drag/drop easily. You might think it's easier because you're told to but it's not. And I'm not having a good laugh at all.
I did not give the new UI bad feedback, shoot me
(and shoot every one else who think different than you and presume all EVE is your *****.) |
Jajas Helper
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:13:00 -
[333] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Seems like despite huge advantages with the new system, some small bits of functionality need to be added here and there. Top that off with a liberal helping of people complaining because they can't use their clunky work arounds anymore. Pretty optimistic to call them bits small, but if that works for you who am I to say. I find the original idea of one window for everything and no real support for others being quite big "bit" myself. This is in test server - yes. Dev blog is out - yes. Dev response to fundamental issues - none. Read the entire comment thread... at least up to page 24 and you get the whole idea what this is about. I'm not whining here just to for whining. In fact I rather would do something else atm :) The details are all there. I read it. You can drag anything you like to the "tree" on the left to move things around. Shift click on the tree to open another window if you prefer means there isn't much left to complain about. Most of the rest are niche cases or center around wanting to do things in a somewhat eccentric way. For the vast majority of routine tasks this is much easier, only for some things does it require an extra click or two. I stand by my original statement. Agreeing with ranger here. The new setup is better. God forbid you might have to change the way uou do something, especially when the new way is easiser.
wait you find it easier to manage a pos with 250mod on it? where i only use 40 of them 2-3 times a day, and it now loads everything everytime i open the cargo for it? I challenge you to find the Gun X around the pos, were i'm sitting at and trying to put ammo in it, also its super fun that now any posmodule opens up the default cargo tab instead of remembering that i work in tab 5... great fun;)
So please give us some cases where something goes faster then before... I'm looking forward to seeing the "vast majority of routines" you can sum up...
Another problem you're ignoring is this: "only for some things does it require an extra click or two" BUT everything else has not reduced in the amount of clicks needed! That together with the obvious bugs - no window memory, loading every damn container in station(even if i dont want to know what is in the corp hangar- it still loads the things) or everything on grid when you're at a pos, even if you're not even in range of it...
It is not because you dont need to acces alot of corp assets per day that this is not effecting others.
And to close this, IF they had introduced this tree list and search profiles as an optional thing - integrated in the old system I would have loved it. And that is exactly what you will find in the feedback from the sisi tests. We aren't resisting change it is the fact that the entire thing is launch with more bugs then added functionality - and we are now being ****** in the arse with every session change, pos related action. If you can't see how putting a half ass "upgrade" ingame, with legit comments from customers, and not testing your own gamechanges properly is a big issue... then i would kindly ask you to stop posting. |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:16:00 -
[334] - Quote
Coperation -> Memberlist -> [x] Online only: list of 2 personen. Corpchat: ~10 Members Online.
Confusing as ****. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:17:00 -
[335] - Quote
knulla wrote:I did not give the new UI bad feedback, shoot me (and shoot every one else who think different than you and presume all EVE is your *****.)
Seems this post is about people who tested/used it and rightfully think their gaming experience is worst.
If you're that happy why are you trolling those not sharing your opinion?
Ho and by the way bring us all your uber enlightenment how great it is when you manage your pos mods, your reactions, several assets all over the place, dozens or hundreds of ships in same station etc etc.
Yes please enlight us of your tremendous and recognised uber greatness, because you know, everyone not thinking like you is dumb amirite?
Let's put it simple, usually you had to approach pos, open container/drag drop, tell us all how uber your super crap is now and how faster you're doing this stuff.
Also explain to us all, please, how do you even know witch pos module are you checking or witch reactor goes with "x" silo.
Just two uber examples how much easy and awesome gaming experience just became. You like it? -dig it, keep it. I just want the option to roll back to something faster/easier to use than this "thing". |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:18:00 -
[336] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Coperation -> Memberlist -> [x] Online only: list of 2 personen. Corpchat: ~10 Members Online.
Confusing as ****.
Devastating bug indeed, yet I think you will survive, I bet you would rage quit over much worse years ago though
Was that the final straw for you? |
Zenst
Tsunami Cartel SQUEE.
43
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:19:00 -
[337] - Quote
knulla wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Styx Cyc wrote:mxzf wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself. This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting. I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all. As a programmer then you would also know there is something known as Resistance to Change. While I agree some people have valid gripes about the new UI, a lot of it just seem to be complaining for the sake of it, specially when people outright tell you "I will never get used to it!!!!!11111", and the new UI is barely 24 hours old. Been there done that. You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI) That is not true at all, people are known to resist what is good for them all the time.
Look - inventory pile of cak - missiles/eye candy - no arguements from anybody - see whats happening or are you also consumed by the DunningGÇôKruger effect!
FYI DunningGÇôKruger effect:
The DunningGÇôKruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.[1]
Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others"
Kruger and Dunning proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:
- 1.tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
2.fail to recognize genuine skill in others; 3.fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy; 4.recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they can be trained to substantially improve.
So when you say "people are known to resist what is good for them all the time." you may want to redefine what you deem is good as if I was one person in a crowd of people disagreeing I would perhaps step-back - take stock of things and re-evaluat things again as apposed to doing a psycological spazm that everybody hates change and cookie cutter that over all those responses. Bad enough with the test-server feedback cabal ignoreing all the same feedback prior to release, but nothing new there sadly :(. There is ignorance and arragance and CCP have managed to pull of both with this inventory change. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:21:00 -
[338] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:knulla wrote:I did not give the new UI bad feedback, shoot me (and shoot every one else who think different than you and presume all EVE is your *****.) Seems this post is about people who tested/used it and rightfully think their gaming experience is worst. If you're that happy why are you trolling those not sharing your opinion? Ho and by the way bring us all your uber enlightenment how great it is when you manage your pos mods, your reactions, several assets all over the place, dozens or hundreds of ships in same station etc etc. Yes please enlight us of your tremendous and recognised uber greatness, because you know, everyone not thinking like you is dumb amirite?
take your "amirites" and shove them where the sun doesn't shine.
I tested it, and I did not mind it in fact I think it is better than what we have, I assume they will improve it also, but please keep ranting.
fool! |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:24:00 -
[339] - Quote
Take some xanax or valium and go to bed, it will all seem better tomorrow.
Or stay crazy. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:28:00 -
[340] - Quote
knulla wrote:Take some xanax or valium and go to bed, it will all seem better tomorrow. Or stay crazy.
You missed the point, completely, and once again.
You care to throw your yadayada crap words with absolutely no decent argument and with an inability to answer simple questions.
This is how good you feel? -you're awful, wait maybe you want me to ask those question in French so you can understand and maybe give some answers instead of trolling?
|
|
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:30:00 -
[341] - Quote
knulla wrote:Take some xanax or valium and go to bed, it will all seem better tomorrow. Or stay crazy.
What you have to understand about a poster like this, is it is just acting out of fear. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:31:00 -
[342] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:knulla wrote:Take some xanax or valium and go to bed, it will all seem better tomorrow. Or stay crazy. You missed the point, completely, and once again. You care to throw your yadayada crap words with absolutely no decent argument and with an inability to answer simple questions. This is how good you feel? -you're awful, wait maybe you want me to ask those question in French so you can understand and maybe give some answers instead of trolling?
What point? That you need meds? I got that already. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:33:00 -
[343] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:knulla wrote:Take some xanax or valium and go to bed, it will all seem better tomorrow. Or stay crazy. What you have to understand about a poster like this, is it is just acting out of fear. Fear of things they will likely never understand
That or autist.
Freaks are freaks, people going crazy like this on patch day needs to be shot, with a tranquilizer and stay a sleep for a few days before they can post on the forums, in a sensible manner. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:34:00 -
[344] - Quote
knulla wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:knulla wrote:Take some xanax or valium and go to bed, it will all seem better tomorrow. Or stay crazy. You missed the point, completely, and once again. You care to throw your yadayada crap words with absolutely no decent argument and with an inability to answer simple questions. This is how good you feel? -you're awful, wait maybe you want me to ask those question in French so you can understand and maybe give some answers instead of trolling? What point? That you need meds? I got that already.
Your inability to answer questions is staggering. You just won the super troll tittle and a block for such trolling, moron.
|
Jajas Helper
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:34:00 -
[345] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:keep laughing when no one is playing You know that some people unsubbed because of the new font? To me, this is the same kind of thing. After all, it's just the inventory. How you fly ships and shoot other people in the game hasn't changed at all.I know life can be hard sometimes. If you really want to be angry, there are more serious things to get angry about in life than this.
SO people do more then flying ships and/to shoot people. These things are now taking more time, are unorganized and overall have gotten worse and tedious. We are now having less time to fly ships and/or shoot people and are having even less fun while doing what was already tedious internetspacebusiness. But atleast you are seeing how "just the inventory" is making the game unplayable for people who do other things then shooting stuff.
Life can be hard sometimes, and i'll accept that "hardness", if that was the intention of this 'upgrade". Until then, i'll keep believing ccp actually wanted to make our lives easier, but again, ****** it up.... while we all knew this was not going to work before it actually went live.
So I'll be waiting for the CCP, HTFU news statement, and accept that they are indeed trying to make it harder to do simple things in their game.
BTW, if they dont improve the inventory, i myself have 3 account which i will drop because the industry i run on those is now taking ALOT more time then before, handling pos jobs is even more tedious then before and I could save myself 3 subs a month and do other things to make isk with my main ( instead of ******* around with the industry side).
Industry was already tedious to the point where it drove people away from it, this is just the drop. So troll away, but this 'upgrade' was half baked, and forced on us while we all knew it was not finished/useable and was going to fail. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:36:00 -
[346] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:knulla wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:knulla wrote:Take some xanax or valium and go to bed, it will all seem better tomorrow. Or stay crazy. You missed the point, completely, and once again. You care to throw your yadayada crap words with absolutely no decent argument and with an inability to answer simple questions. This is how good you feel? -you're awful, wait maybe you want me to ask those question in French so you can understand and maybe give some answers instead of trolling? What point? That you need meds? I got that already. Your inability to answer questions is staggering. You just won the super troll tittle and a block for such trolling, moron.
What question? I gave a statement, anything else is mute and pointless. If you quit over this you are a ******, if you keep ranting about the new UI in this manner you are also a ******.
Feel free to use that as an answer to any question you got, peace! |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:38:00 -
[347] - Quote
Jajas Helper wrote:non judgement wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:keep laughing when no one is playing You know that some people unsubbed because of the new font? To me, this is the same kind of thing. After all, it's just the inventory. How you fly ships and shoot other people in the game hasn't changed at all.I know life can be hard sometimes. If you really want to be angry, there are more serious things to get angry about in life than this. SO people do more then flying ships and/to shoot people. These things are now taking more time, are unorganized and overall have gotten worse and tedious. We are now having less time to fly ships and/or shoot people and are having even less fun while doing what was already tedious internetspacebusiness. But atleast you are seeing how "just the inventory" is making the game unplayable for people who do other things then shooting stuff. Life can be hard sometimes, and i'll accept that "hardness", if that was the intention of this 'upgrade". Until then, i'll keep believing ccp actually wanted to make our lives easier, but again, ****** it up.... while we all knew this was not going to work before it actually went live. So I'll be waiting for the CCP, HTFU news statement, and accept that they are indeed trying to make it harder to do simple things in their game. BTW, if they dont improve the inventory, i myself have 3 account which i will drop because the industry i run on those is now taking ALOT more time then before, handling pos jobs is even more tedious then before and I could save myself 3 subs a month and do other things to make isk with my main ( instead of ******* around with the industry side). Industry was already tedious to the point where it drove people away from it, this is just the drop. So troll away, but this 'upgrade' was half baked, and forced on us while we all knew it was not finished/useable and was going to fail.
You are the worst example of an industrialist and you give the rest of us a bad name.
I hope you quit today with your 3 accounts, pretty please do it, go ahead, I know you will make a lot of people happy!
|
Kimver
Balls Deep Explorations
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:44:00 -
[348] - Quote
2 knulla 8 day noob? Come on, dont be a chicken, show your real face. You are just a stupid fat troll. |
Jajas Helper
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:45:00 -
[349] - Quote
knulla wrote:Jajas Helper wrote:non judgement wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:keep laughing when no one is playing You know that some people unsubbed because of the new font? To me, this is the same kind of thing. After all, it's just the inventory. How you fly ships and shoot other people in the game hasn't changed at all.I know life can be hard sometimes. If you really want to be angry, there are more serious things to get angry about in life than this. SO people do more then flying ships and/to shoot people. These things are now taking more time, are unorganized and overall have gotten worse and tedious. We are now having less time to fly ships and/or shoot people and are having even less fun while doing what was already tedious internetspacebusiness. But atleast you are seeing how "just the inventory" is making the game unplayable for people who do other things then shooting stuff. Life can be hard sometimes, and i'll accept that "hardness", if that was the intention of this 'upgrade". Until then, i'll keep believing ccp actually wanted to make our lives easier, but again, ****** it up.... while we all knew this was not going to work before it actually went live. So I'll be waiting for the CCP, HTFU news statement, and accept that they are indeed trying to make it harder to do simple things in their game. BTW, if they dont improve the inventory, i myself have 3 account which i will drop because the industry i run on those is now taking ALOT more time then before, handling pos jobs is even more tedious then before and I could save myself 3 subs a month and do other things to make isk with my main ( instead of ******* around with the industry side). Industry was already tedious to the point where it drove people away from it, this is just the drop. So troll away, but this 'upgrade' was half baked, and forced on us while we all knew it was not finished/useable and was going to fail. You are the worst example of an industrialist and you give the rest of us a bad name. I hope you quit today with your 3 accounts, pretty please do it, go ahead, I know you will make a lot of people happy!
Comfirming running 99 invention jobs, 3-4 times a day is making me a bad industrialist, having over 700+ industry jobs in our corp is a bad thing indeed... But thank you for pointing that out, I will go and contract all my stuff to you and biomass my toons.
|
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
47
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:50:00 -
[350] - Quote
Kimver wrote:2 knulla 8 day noob? Come on, dont be a chicken, show your real face. You are just a stupid fat troll.
And you are? Oh that's right, never mind, I don't give a ****.
But please, keep making the rest of us laugh at your sad trolling, quitting over this UI change?
right.
|
|
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
47
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:51:00 -
[351] - Quote
Jajas Helper wrote:knulla wrote:Jajas Helper wrote:non judgement wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:keep laughing when no one is playing You know that some people unsubbed because of the new font? To me, this is the same kind of thing. After all, it's just the inventory. How you fly ships and shoot other people in the game hasn't changed at all.I know life can be hard sometimes. If you really want to be angry, there are more serious things to get angry about in life than this. SO people do more then flying ships and/to shoot people. These things are now taking more time, are unorganized and overall have gotten worse and tedious. We are now having less time to fly ships and/or shoot people and are having even less fun while doing what was already tedious internetspacebusiness. But atleast you are seeing how "just the inventory" is making the game unplayable for people who do other things then shooting stuff. Life can be hard sometimes, and i'll accept that "hardness", if that was the intention of this 'upgrade". Until then, i'll keep believing ccp actually wanted to make our lives easier, but again, ****** it up.... while we all knew this was not going to work before it actually went live. So I'll be waiting for the CCP, HTFU news statement, and accept that they are indeed trying to make it harder to do simple things in their game. BTW, if they dont improve the inventory, i myself have 3 account which i will drop because the industry i run on those is now taking ALOT more time then before, handling pos jobs is even more tedious then before and I could save myself 3 subs a month and do other things to make isk with my main ( instead of ******* around with the industry side). Industry was already tedious to the point where it drove people away from it, this is just the drop. So troll away, but this 'upgrade' was half baked, and forced on us while we all knew it was not finished/useable and was going to fail. You are the worst example of an industrialist and you give the rest of us a bad name. I hope you quit today with your 3 accounts, pretty please do it, go ahead, I know you will make a lot of people happy! Comfirming running 99 invention jobs, 3-4 times a day is making me a bad industrialist, having over 700+ industry jobs in our corp is a bad thing indeed... But thank you for pointing that out, I will go and contract all my stuff to you and biomass my toons.
I hope you do. Peace and it was nice not knowing you. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
824
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:56:00 -
[352] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Cord Binchiette wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones. Are you still laughing? I don't understand how you guys could screw this up so badly. Really. What do we have to do to get the old inventory back? I never laugh when idiots play with my hard time working won real money, it's worst than a slap in the face or kick in the balls.
You wanted to play, but you got a CCP Arrow in the knee! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:58:00 -
[353] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Cord Binchiette wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones. Are you still laughing? I don't understand how you guys could screw this up so badly. Really. What do we have to do to get the old inventory back? I never laugh when idiots play with my hard time working won real money, it's worst than a slap in the face or kick in the balls. You wanted to play, but you got a CCP Arrow in the knee!
Confirming but instead I got head shot |
miss eve2006
Fairtrade Syndicate
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:59:00 -
[354] - Quote
My biggest issue with it is the darker text... sitting at work where the sun shines in, i use a light grey theme. the white works out, but now this new inventory comes along with just a tad darker font colors, making it impossible to read.
Why can't we change font colors?.... Would be an awesome ui improvement. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
824
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:03:00 -
[355] - Quote
Styx Cyc wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote: You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI)
There will always be resistance to change. Specially when a userbase has been doing things a certain way for a large number of years. As for not listening, with that I agree.
This particular case is not resistance to change. It's quick realization that just to achieve what earlier you did in one click, now you need 3-4. EVERYTHING needs more clicks not just the rare exotic option.
Just to see your damn station cargo and drop 4-5 things somewhere now is a pain in the ***. Try refilling a POS. Try dealing with a reaction. Try dealing with multiple divisions with a dozen boxes each (very common in any average corp).
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:03:00 -
[356] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Styx Cyc wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote: You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI)
There will always be resistance to change. Specially when a userbase has been doing things a certain way for a large number of years. As for not listening, with that I agree. This particular case is not resistance to change. It's quick realization that just to achieve what earlier you did in one click, now you need 3-4. EVERYTHING needs more clicks not just the rare exotic option. Just to see your damn station cargo and drop 4-5 things somewhere now is a pain in the ***. Try refilling a POS. Try dealing with a reaction. Try dealing with multiple divisions with a dozen boxes each (very common in any average corp).
Try dealing with life. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
824
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:04:00 -
[357] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
And yet people still buy Microsoft products..........
Isn't it funny? Even and Microsoft they understood most would hate their tree views and kept the old windows (now still used by 90% of the user base) available as legacy.
I mean, CCP managed to do worse than Microsoft. That alone should unlock the "HEY WE ARE MORONS" achievement on some WoW page. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
824
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:05:00 -
[358] - Quote
knulla wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Styx Cyc wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote: You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI)
There will always be resistance to change. Specially when a userbase has been doing things a certain way for a large number of years. As for not listening, with that I agree. This particular case is not resistance to change. It's quick realization that just to achieve what earlier you did in one click, now you need 3-4. EVERYTHING needs more clicks not just the rare exotic option. Just to see your damn station cargo and drop 4-5 things somewhere now is a pain in the ***. Try refilling a POS. Try dealing with a reaction. Try dealing with multiple divisions with a dozen boxes each (very common in any average corp). Try dealing with life.
It's funny, do you get paid to post such stupid drivel in every thread? Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:08:00 -
[359] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:knulla wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Styx Cyc wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote: You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI)
There will always be resistance to change. Specially when a userbase has been doing things a certain way for a large number of years. As for not listening, with that I agree. This particular case is not resistance to change. It's quick realization that just to achieve what earlier you did in one click, now you need 3-4. EVERYTHING needs more clicks not just the rare exotic option. Just to see your damn station cargo and drop 4-5 things somewhere now is a pain in the ***. Try refilling a POS. Try dealing with a reaction. Try dealing with multiple divisions with a dozen boxes each (very common in any average corp). Try dealing with life. It's funny, do you get paid to post such stupid drivel in every thread?
Nope, your reply was reward enough.
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
824
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:13:00 -
[360] - Quote
knulla wrote: Nope, your reply was reward enough.
You are very easily pleased. It's probably why you like the new UI.
I have a Brooklin bridge for sale if you would like... Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
|
Andemnon Kohort
Protagonists Of Doom
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:15:00 -
[361] - Quote
[q
There will always be resistance to change. Specially when a userbase has been doing things a certain way for a large number of years.
As for not listening, with that I agree.[/quote]
This particular case is not resistance to change. It's quick realization that just to achieve what earlier you did in one click, now you need 3-4. EVERYTHING needs more clicks not just the rare exotic option.
Just to see your damn station cargo and drop 4-5 things somewhere now is a pain in the ***. Try refilling a POS. Try dealing with a reaction. Try dealing with multiple divisions with a dozen boxes each (very common in any average corp). [/quote]
Try dealing with life.[/quote]
It's funny, do you get paid to post such stupid drivel in every thread?[/quote]
Nope, your reply was reward enough. [/quote]
you created that toon 8 days ago so you could just troll the forums.. awesome.. but then your just a gutless wonder that darent use their real identity anyway. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:16:00 -
[362] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:knulla wrote: Nope, your reply was reward enough.
You are very easily pleased. It's probably why you like the new UI. I have a Brooklin bridge for sale if you would like...
a or "the"? No but please use that joke more often, I am sure you can kill a crowd with that that material of yours. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:17:00 -
[363] - Quote
Andemnon Kohort wrote:
you created that toon 8 days ago so you could just troll the forums.. awesome.. but then your just a gutless wonder that darent use their real identity anyway.
You got me, nice catch, now I will have to stroll back to my cave and hide, I would hate to end up looking like an ass on my main like some |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
75
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:20:00 -
[364] - Quote
knulla wrote:Andemnon Kohort wrote:
you created that toon 8 days ago so you could just troll the forums.. awesome.. but then your just a gutless wonder that darent use their real identity anyway.
You got me, nice catch, now I will have to stroll back to my cave and hide, I would hate to end up looking like an ass on my main like some
what a joke, you are less that insignifiant, begone |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
578
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:21:00 -
[365] - Quote
After playing around with this for a bit, I have two things to say;
1) Excellent summary of most of this at Tippia's rants tbfh. 2) This new system is only really functional for my highsec station-trader, all my in-space pilots have a hell right now. That includes both PvP and PvE-centered pilots.
I need my cargospace open, I need instant-refresh when I cherrypick loot, I need those damn borders gone in the shift-clicked opened windows (so they don't take too much space), especially when I am managing super-/capital-/orca-ships and/or have containers in the hold. Right now my PvP-battleships with medium containers for cap boosters have two shift-clicked windows (just like old system), but they are gigantic (thanks to the borders top/bottom), they don't refresh immediately, they don't remember position, and when I tab down the secure container it drowns away - and have to be picked from a list in the menu on the left.
This is counter-intuitive for fast paced action, a giant PvP nerf, and it's also hampering any kind of looting while PvE'ing (cheerypicking - i.e. non-loot all). Also, I'm curious as to why I can't even shift-click my can to open a separate window right away, why I have to open that gigantic cluncly inventory interface just to open a can that I already see from the window I have open is ridicilous.
TL;DR just like Tippia said, this interface has some benefits/perks, but it's not a finished product and should not be in the game in this current state. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:22:00 -
[366] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:knulla wrote:Andemnon Kohort wrote:
you created that toon 8 days ago so you could just troll the forums.. awesome.. but then your just a gutless wonder that darent use their real identity anyway.
You got me, nice catch, now I will have to stroll back to my cave and hide, I would hate to end up looking like an ass on my main like some what a joke, you are less that insignifiant, begone
me begone? No, you begone, you said you quit several times then fing quit and f-off already. |
Andemnon Kohort
Protagonists Of Doom
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:29:00 -
[367] - Quote
knulla wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:knulla wrote:Andemnon Kohort wrote:
you created that toon 8 days ago so you could just troll the forums.. awesome.. but then your just a gutless wonder that darent use their real identity anyway.
You got me, nice catch, now I will have to stroll back to my cave and hide, I would hate to end up looking like an ass on my main like some what a joke, you are less that insignifiant, begone me begone? No, you begone, you said you quit several times then fing quit and f-off already.
Knulla this forum is for Eve players, not WoW rejects.. so STFU and sod off back to WOW.. |
Jajas Helper
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:32:00 -
[368] - Quote
Andemnon Kohort wrote:knulla wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:knulla wrote:Andemnon Kohort wrote:
you created that toon 8 days ago so you could just troll the forums.. awesome.. but then your just a gutless wonder that darent use their real identity anyway.
You got me, nice catch, now I will have to stroll back to my cave and hide, I would hate to end up looking like an ass on my main like some what a joke, you are less that insignifiant, begone me begone? No, you begone, you said you quit several times then fing quit and f-off already. Knulla this forum is for Eve players, not WoW rejects.. so STFU and sod off back to WOW..
Another thread on its way to derailing and getting locked because of trolls and " go back to wow comments"... Good to see most of you haven't learned how forumwarriors work their magic |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:34:00 -
[369] - Quote
knulla wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:Coperation -> Memberlist -> [x] Online only: list of 2 personen. Corpchat: ~10 Members Online.
Confusing as ****. Devastating bug indeed, yet I think you will survive, I bet you would rage quit over much worse years ago though Was that the final straw for you? Not at all. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:38:00 -
[370] - Quote
Andemnon Kohort wrote:knulla wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:knulla wrote:Andemnon Kohort wrote:
you created that toon 8 days ago so you could just troll the forums.. awesome.. but then your just a gutless wonder that darent use their real identity anyway.
You got me, nice catch, now I will have to stroll back to my cave and hide, I would hate to end up looking like an ass on my main like some what a joke, you are less that insignifiant, begone me begone? No, you begone, you said you quit several times then fing quit and f-off already. Knulla this forum is for Eve players, not WoW rejects.. so STFU and sod off back to WOW..
You quit the game, you have no right telling any eve player what they should or should not do, in fact, you quit so what the **** are you doing here still?
Leave already, before we all start to think you were just trolling and making stupid, empty threats to CCP because you are a ******. |
|
Darth Kilth
Clan Exiled Legends
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:40:00 -
[371] - Quote
After ignoring posts of this knulla person I see so many red bars in this topic, I have to say they look more pleasing then any of his replies.
Can we now get this discussion back on topic please? The UI problem is more important then Knulla's ego. |
Josef Djugashvilis
208
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:44:00 -
[372] - Quote
Darth Kilth wrote:After ignoring posts of this knulla person I see so many red bars in this topic, I have to say they look more pleasing then any of his replies.
Can we now get this discussion back on topic please? The UI problem is more important then Knulla's ego.
Not to Knulla it isn't You want fries with that? |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
490
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:45:00 -
[373] - Quote
Darth Kilth wrote:After ignoring posts of this knulla person I see so many red bars in this topic, I have to say they look more pleasing then any of his replies.
Can we now get this discussion back on topic please? The UI problem is more important then Knulla's ego.
Just block it. (A troll is an 'it' yes?) :) Who needs television when you have EVE? EVE drama, best drama. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:45:00 -
[374] - Quote
Darth Kilth wrote:After ignoring posts of this knulla person I see so many red bars in this topic, I have to say they look more pleasing then any of his replies.
Can we now get this discussion back on topic please? The UI problem is more important then Knulla's ego.
My EGO?
You guys are quitting EVE after years, some 2004 because of this tiny change.
Talk about ego |
Josef Djugashvilis
208
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:49:00 -
[375] - Quote
knulla wrote:Darth Kilth wrote:After ignoring posts of this knulla person I see so many red bars in this topic, I have to say they look more pleasing then any of his replies.
Can we now get this discussion back on topic please? The UI problem is more important then Knulla's ego. My EGO? You guys are quitting EVE after years, some 2004 because of this tiny change. Talk about ego
Quitting Eve (or, more realistically, threatening to) seems more more like hissy fits than ego's to me.
Over the next week or so, CCP will fix/amend most of the stuff that is wrong with the inventory system. You want fries with that? |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:56:00 -
[376] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:knulla wrote:Darth Kilth wrote:After ignoring posts of this knulla person I see so many red bars in this topic, I have to say they look more pleasing then any of his replies.
Can we now get this discussion back on topic please? The UI problem is more important then Knulla's ego. My EGO? You guys are quitting EVE after years, some 2004 because of this tiny change. Talk about ego Quitting Eve (or, more realistically, threatening to) seems more more like hissy fits than ego's to me. Over the next week or so, CCP will fix/amend most of the stuff that is wrong with the inventory system.
Well that is the point and it is also part of a persons ego, especially when they think the rest of us gives a **** and should join their attacks on CCP, over this... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7112
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 10:59:00 -
[377] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Over the next week or so, CCP will fix/amend most of the stuff that is wrong with the inventory system. No they won't. It simply wouldn't fit within a week.
They basically have to reconceptualise the entire UI and start building things from scratch to fix most of what's wrong with it. Pretty much everything comes back to the flawed notion that you can GÇ£unifyGÇ¥ something that appears in so many forms and sizes and in so many different locations as this concept of GÇ£anything with items in itGÇ¥, and the equally flawed notion that a single window is the solution to any kind of problem.
They have some very nice building blocks to play with right now. What they don't have is a working inventory management system, and to build one of those from the building blocks, they're going to need a few monthsGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
825
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 11:00:00 -
[378] - Quote
knulla wrote:Andemnon Kohort wrote:
you created that toon 8 days ago so you could just troll the forums.. awesome.. but then your just a gutless wonder that darent use their real identity anyway.
You got me, nice catch, now I will have to stroll back to my cave and hide, I would hate to end up looking like an ass on my main like some
You don't need to use your main to look like an ass. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
825
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 11:04:00 -
[379] - Quote
After the Error 37 Diablo nitpick, I am waiting to see Diablo splash screen showing the EvE UI Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Stralow
Die rot-weiss-roten Piloten Bruderschaft der Pilger
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 11:06:00 -
[380] - Quote
What i would love would be own filters to sort pos modules and some kind of own filters you can set and move module into. Also the whole UI should be a NC/Total Commander Style
I've made a picture (warning bad photoshop incoming) to illustrate
http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/ncstyle4fo5xwkv2b.jpg
Two panels on the left and right, where you easy can select modules and move stuff around. The yellow thing on the right is an own filter. In this case i named it reactions and put 3 silos and an reactor in it. This way you don't have to search and pick modules in the list, you just can easily group them i say we take off and nuke the whole site from orbit. it's the only way to be sure |
|
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 11:07:00 -
[381] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:knulla wrote:Andemnon Kohort wrote:
you created that toon 8 days ago so you could just troll the forums.. awesome.. but then your just a gutless wonder that darent use their real identity anyway.
You got me, nice catch, now I will have to stroll back to my cave and hide, I would hate to end up looking like an ass on my main like some You don't need to use your main to look like an ass.
Neither do you but you do. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
76
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 11:15:00 -
[382] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:After the Error 37 Diablo nitpick, I am waiting to see Diablo splash screen showing the EvE UI
Can't wait, please please please |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
825
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 11:19:00 -
[383] - Quote
knulla wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:knulla wrote:Andemnon Kohort wrote:
you created that toon 8 days ago so you could just troll the forums.. awesome.. but then your just a gutless wonder that darent use their real identity anyway.
You got me, nice catch, now I will have to stroll back to my cave and hide, I would hate to end up looking like an ass on my main like some You don't need to use your main to look like an ass. Neither do you but you do.
Before you make on my ignore list:
I have what it takes to post on my main. You don't. It means you know you are posting garbage and are ashamed of it.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Sexy Cakes
Poasting
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 11:25:00 -
[384] - Quote
They really should have canned Hilmar. This **** is horrendous. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 11:27:00 -
[385] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:knulla wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:knulla wrote:Andemnon Kohort wrote:
you created that toon 8 days ago so you could just troll the forums.. awesome.. but then your just a gutless wonder that darent use their real identity anyway.
You got me, nice catch, now I will have to stroll back to my cave and hide, I would hate to end up looking like an ass on my main like some You don't need to use your main to look like an ass. Neither do you but you do. Before you make on my ignore list: I have what it takes to post on my main. You don't. It means you know you are posting garbage and are ashamed of it.
You sure have what it takes
Please don't let me stop you, keep on raging against CCP, they stole your kids and took your wives. Just answer me one thing, do you act this stupid every time it is patch day? If yes then let me ignore you now. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
115
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 11:33:00 -
[386] - Quote
i wonder how long does it take til people realize that the new inventory is actually a nerf directed towards carebears, esp. mission runners who can be bothered to salvage and loot stuff. [ loading... ] |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 11:34:00 -
[387] - Quote
Who is this knulla and why is she posting all the time? |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 11:42:00 -
[388] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Who is this knulla and why is she posting all the time?
I am a random eve player for many, many years.
Because I am bored, I can and someone needs to tell idiots like you to take xanax or stop wasting oxygen.
good enough? or do you want to say something else? |
Jajas Helper
26
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 11:45:00 -
[389] - Quote
Just hide the troll's posts... makes live so much easier |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 11:46:00 -
[390] - Quote
Jajas Helper wrote:Just hide the troll's posts... makes live so much easier
Good idea, you are now blocked, bye! |
|
Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
635
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 12:18:00 -
[391] - Quote
knulla wrote:Jajas Helper wrote:Just hide the troll's posts... makes live so much easier Good idea, you are now blocked, bye!
Ironic how you take the "moral high ground" when your name itself is a slang word for intercourse. But I am guessing you already knew that. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 12:22:00 -
[392] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:knulla wrote:Jajas Helper wrote:Just hide the troll's posts... makes live so much easier Good idea, you are now blocked, bye! Ironic how you take the "moral high ground" when your name itself is a slang word for intercourse. But I am guessing you already knew that.
Slang word for what? Moral high ground? Oh I am sorry... you must mistake me for someone else. -áMalice Redeemer - "Post if you are unsubing over the new inventory" -áPosted: 2012.05.23 01:39
-á-á-á-álol |
Kagura Nikon
Emptiness. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 13:07:00 -
[393] - Quote
I want to add a sniped from what I saw a friend of mine suffering yesterday with this new interface. Happens taht duie to an unfortunate incident in his life, he has only its left hand. He plays as industrialist, so uses the inventory about all time...
You cannot imagine the suffering for him that needing to make a shift click every few seconds. Sure there are workarounds, but the ammount of sufferable work for him increased tenfold. |
Sycho Pathic
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 15:13:00 -
[394] - Quote
mxzf wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself. This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting. I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all.
Yeah. That response certainly caused a raised eyebrow.
Yes, everything ships with bugs. More so now than when I started (S-100 bus, CP/M days where you didn't have the "Fix it with a downloadable patch" option and pretty much had to nail it on release.)
The primary problem here is not bug related. It is a problem with the implementation itself. A few good ideas that were not completely thought out. A non-trivial number of use cases are impacted by this.
The hubris in that reply is definitely misplaced.
By and large, your userbase has a deeper understanding of their problem set and workflow than you, the developer. Takes some of us longer than others to truly understand that. |
Ira Theos
Viziam Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 15:16:00 -
[395] - Quote
SpaceSquirrels wrote:I must be missing something.
Then you must be a Dev Alt. |
Ira Theos
Viziam Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 15:23:00 -
[396] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome.
Soundwave... YOU couldn't "confirm" the existence of your butt in a brightly lit room with both hands, a mirror, and the assistance of half of Goonswarm.
The less you participate in EVE design issues, the better EVE will be. |
Lord Skyfire
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 15:42:00 -
[397] - Quote
Amidst the cries of miners and such complaining about the boredom of mining, CCP has come up with a solution. A solution, as we are all aware, is Winferno.
This solution now makes miners unable to stack their cargohold with their jetcan for easy drag-drop into the jetcan tab. This function has been eliminated since it was obviously too easy and boring.
Now, you must look at it from a logical perspective. It is actually, a puzzle that will give miners a problem to work out. Do you cascade your cargohold and jetcan to still enable the drag and drop? Or do you instead open up that horrible index inventory and drag-drop that way? Food for thought, regardless, mining is no longer the easy and boring activity it once was.
Coupled with the offline members being in local, its caused miners to be even more paranoid and switching concentration between local and cargoholds. Those guys in local might go "online" and instead of flashing red/neutral, you just get a nice clear green circle.
GOOD JOB CCP KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
Now...wheres did I put that ore in my Orca....and where did my fuel bay option go on my capitals? Did it get sucked into the Winferno? |
Red Rydah
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 16:13:00 -
[398] - Quote
Styx Cyc wrote:Red Rydah wrote:I actually like the new integrated inventory view, it's almost intuitive. I know there are some of you who do not like it, and I respect that viewpoint. As fellow subbers your opinion counts as much as mine does.
I offer a solution that has already been implimented regarding the ship spinning issue. You can toggle between CQ and the ship view with a single click. Let's try that with the inventory interface: if you click a toggle, it reverts to the old view people are accustomed to. For those of you like myself who like the new setup, we do not have to click that toggle, or click it where it does become convenient to work between both modes.
RR That kind of thing while good at first, as the people get used to the new features, eventually ends up piling up code that is not really necessary, and overloads the game, at least in the case of the whole item storage. Keeping ship spinning is probably far less complex. Its quite difficult to cater to everybody's tastes.
A valid point. I posted that before Scrapyard Bob's great suggestions appeared in the forums. I think what he has proposed is the best way to go.
RR |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
156
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:02:00 -
[399] - Quote
knulla wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Styx Cyc wrote:mxzf wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself. This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting. I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all. As a programmer then you would also know there is something known as Resistance to Change. While I agree some people have valid gripes about the new UI, a lot of it just seem to be complaining for the sake of it, specially when people outright tell you "I will never get used to it!!!!!11111", and the new UI is barely 24 hours old. Been there done that. You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI) That is not true at all, people are known to resist what is good for them all the time.
Might be true just a shame the new UI isn't good and actual makes things less intuitive, but hey thats my opinion.
You should have tested on SISI.
Tal
|
Grayson Gibbs
Capital Enrichment Services The Night Crew Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:53:00 -
[400] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Example: When you dock and are sorting your loot out of your cargo hold. All you need have open is your cargo hold. Filter things however you like and simply drag the items to the appropriate listings in the tree. All of your sorting is done from one window, with far less mouse movement back and forth across your screen than dragging from one window to various other windows. The tree is right next to the items you are working with.
All that extra mouse movement needs to be done because you don't leave the tree open so that you can sort, drag, and drop on the hangers (etc.) listed there. In other words the tree isn't just there to allow you to easily find and open other hangers/containers... it's there to provide one spot (immediately adjacent to where your mouse will be) to drag your items to when sorting.
...but in many cases dropping items to tree eventually means that you have to be aware what and how much is in the destination folder already. Having 2 windows shows all the relevant information immediately and makes such item transfers much easier. Then there is also the problem that you need to scroll the tree all the time and it is rather easy to accidentally drop stuff to wrong folder. This can be rather annoying specially in cases where your stuff end up to corp hangars you don't have withdrawal access to. Completely understandable, and many people find keeping things straight mentally is easier when things are in consistant and seperate locations on their screen. I don't see anything wrong with having multiple windows open for reference, but the actual draging and dropping (sorting) would much more easily be done from the main window (the one you happen to be currently working on) to the tree. Thus the other posters comments about his insistance on closing the tree being counter productive. The issues with the other windows updating properlly, and perhaps some minor tweaks to the physical layout of the tree are certainly valid concerns that should be easy to rectify. I will make one point that is near and dear to my heart. If you make it so that your inventory window(s) can be dragged to another monitor, outside of your EVE window, you will make people pretty much universally happy. One of the main problems with having multiple windows open for reference all the time (as Tippia does) is it leaves very little space for actually playing the game. Being able to move those windows to another monitor would be a boon to many people, and even people that play on a single montior in windowed mode would probably like the option to put all chat/inventory type items to the side away from their main play area.
I think I can see both points- however- I live in a wormhole, in a giant POS. Now, when I select something in say... my hangar tab, and I want to drag say, 1000 rounds of a particular ammunition, the second my cursor (and selected item) hover over the intended target in the tree, it closes my hangar tab and instead opens the target location. Very frustrating when I am trying to do an ammo swap, or dispense loot from one of the many victims that we just murdered. :) Just sayin. |
|
Zenst
Tsunami Cartel SQUEE.
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:04:00 -
[401] - Quote
knulla wrote:Take some xanax or valium and go to bed, it will all seem better tomorrow. Or stay crazy.
Protection is so sad from one so clearly ignorant of facts.
I could take lots of drugs and go to bed but come the morning you will still be a annoying little fool suffering from delusion.
Sad I know, but that's you that is. |
Zenst
Tsunami Cartel SQUEE.
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:17:00 -
[402] - Quote
Sycho Pathic wrote:mxzf wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself. This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting. I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all. Yeah. That response certainly caused a raised eyebrow. Yes, everything ships with bugs. More so now than when I started (S-100 bus, CP/M days where you didn't have the "Fix it with a downloadable patch" option and pretty much had to nail it on release.) The primary problem here is not bug related. It is a problem with the implementation itself. A few good ideas that were not completely thought out. A non-trivial number of use cases are impacted by this. The hubris in that reply is definitely misplaced. By and large, your userbase has a deeper understanding of their problem set and workflow than you, the developer. Takes some of us longer than others to truly understand that.
Totaly agree, I was amazewd at that level of aragance and would only expect it from a dilbert cartoon - deja vue anyone. Also there user interface tagged ones all seem apt here, sadly. |
Zenst
Tsunami Cartel SQUEE.
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:48:00 -
[403] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:I want to add a sniped from what I saw a friend of mine suffering yesterday with this new interface. Happens taht duie to an unfortunate incident in his life, he has only its left hand. He plays as industrialist, so uses the inventory about all time...
You cannot imagine the suffering for him that needing to make a shift click every few seconds. Sure there are workarounds, but the ammount of sufferable work for him increased tenfold.
Sorry to hear this. I hope CCP are sorry as well. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
587
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 20:11:00 -
[404] - Quote
Zenst wrote:Sycho Pathic wrote:mxzf wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself. This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting. I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all. Yeah. That response certainly caused a raised eyebrow. Yes, everything ships with bugs. More so now than when I started (S-100 bus, CP/M days where you didn't have the "Fix it with a downloadable patch" option and pretty much had to nail it on release.) The primary problem here is not bug related. It is a problem with the implementation itself. A few good ideas that were not completely thought out. A non-trivial number of use cases are impacted by this. The hubris in that reply is definitely misplaced. By and large, your userbase has a deeper understanding of their problem set and workflow than you, the developer. Takes some of us longer than others to truly understand that. Totaly agree, I was amazewd at that level of aragance and would only expect it from a dilbert cartoon - deja vue anyone. Also there user interface tagged ones all seem apt here, sadly.
This is how CCP operates, and should be of no surprise to anyone (I admit tho, each time I shake my head in disbelief myself, even tho I expect it). This is CCP in a nutshell:
* Zulu/whoever: "I don't like drones, they may or may not lag the server. We need to nerf them all! Start by carriers and motherships as they have so damn many!!11!1!2". Then CCP throws out a half-assed nerf attempt, showing zero understanding of actual game mechanics or gameplay. Players rage, eventually some weird compromise is met where noone is pleased. Fast forward a couple of years and eventually CCP gets their will through. * CCP/whoever: "I want all my inventory in a unified box, let's make it happen!". Players: gives plenty of feedback, testing it on SiSi, etc, at the end of the day.. CCP does what the hell they want anyway. * Hilmar/Soundwave/whoever: "Let's remove ship spinning and force everyone into this useless, depressing Closed Quarter!". Players: we don't like this! We want ship spinning back, and even if we would care about WiS, there's no content? why force this piece of **** on us? "CCP: because WE want it this way". * CCP vs CSM: CCP want A, CSM want B. If CCP think B is acceptable: "CSM suggested this, and together we have..". If CCP don't like B, they simply run over CSM and implement A, sometimes without even testing it on SiSi.
TL;DR CCP is the very definition of hubris and narcissism. Look at any of their presentations from FanFest for example. "We are awsome and we know if! And if our customers don't agree with us, they just don't know yet how awsome this is!". No matter if it's bug-riddled, something the majority of the playerbase don't want, even if something isn't even completed before release.. don't worry, you can count on CCP taking the suicide route. They're just so awsome they do what the **** they want.
Sometimes I wonder if they live in some alternate reality. Just look at what CCP had: * A kickass product/MMO that stood out. * A rock solid player- and fanbase, and great customer relation (especially their community managers).
A couple of the higher-ups in the CCP hierarchy is doing their best to ruin these two by every decision they make. The future of this game could've been shining bright, but instead we see this kind of hubris and self-centered arrogance. Make no mistake, it comes from the higher-ups, this is the kind of company culture they have. It has to change from the top. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Ivona Warp
EVIL BANK
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 20:54:00 -
[405] - Quote
I'm really bored. Since this inventory change I no longer have the will to do what I loved to do and that was mine with my 7 acounts. This inventory change has ruined my will to mine. I can no longer haul and keep up with my miners because of all the extra scrolling and clicking. One might ask why CCP would make something so simple to use, such a pain in the arse? Then one remembers they are dealing with CCP. I guess I will sit here and wait untill a button to switch back to easy is installed or just wait untill my acounts expire and play something else.
|
Push ButtonGet Bacon
Shiva GIANTSBANE.
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 02:08:00 -
[406] - Quote
Ivona Warp wrote:I'm really bored. Since this inventory change I no longer have the will to do what I loved to do and that was mine with my 7 acounts. This inventory change has ruined my will to mine. I can no longer haul and keep up with my miners because of all the extra scrolling and clicking. One might ask why CCP would make something so simple to use, such a pain in the arse? Then one remembers they are dealing with CCP. I guess I will sit here and wait untill a button to switch back to easy is installed or just wait untill my acounts expire and play something else.
Same here
Though after seeing the dev blog and their willingness to change the UI to allow for somewhat pre-inferno accusation. I have a little ray of hope. |
Zenst
Tsunami Cartel SQUEE.
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 02:20:00 -
[407] - Quote
I KNOW HOW TO FIX THIS
What is needed is the ability to plug a PS/3 controller into your PC and then that is used solely for controlling the new inventory system we have all got to know and love, though some in a beastality kind of way (though probably alot more than some in a simplex relationship).
Now with this PS/3 controller, which normaly would be limited with the old system, you could then easily navigate the new inventory system in the most effecient way for the interface afforded.
Alas my PC only has a PS/2 port so I feel that may not be supported.
Or if CCP would be so gracious as to say do a video comparing how much easier it is to do things with the new system compared to the old system, like for like. Usualy everyday tasks, moving ships/modules from one station to another. Jumping several systems and changing drones every system to cator for dmg types or course. Go mine some ore and then pop into your hanger with other ore you have and stack and refine. Fitting 5 ships with drones, I'm sure there are many common day things people oculd list as well. But pick a few and please, for the love of Science - show us were we are going wrong and how you can actualy do things faster on a windows mobile platform than you can an android, err no wait I meant how you can do things faster with the new inventory system over the old system.
Please just show us were so many are going wrong, or am I dusting up the wrong navigation tree!
Reason I ask is that I feel the old system for speed was faster in getting alot of general day tasks done and would liek to see somebody versed in the new inventory system demonstrate it against the old system. I'm sure CCP with there world class QA and internal development people, some who have been in there roles over a whole month now are not only ahead of the curve, but already have such a video in-house as part of the QA initiative. Lets face it, don't be shy, we know your the best and a QA check list comparing tasks would of been 101 QA, and even recording it for reference and feedback would be 101 for a lesser company. So can you please just put us out of our misery and show us were we are going wrong. A picture speaks a thousand words, show us the dicionary please. Show us a video of how this is so much faster for the 99% of eve players. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1300
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 02:46:00 -
[408] - Quote
Yea I would be surprised if the base code for this thing didn't come from dust development which was then ported to eve. It would be too convenient accident not to be true.
However none of this really matters. I'm pretty much done with this entire topic already. With all the effort we put to prevent it should have been enough and tranq should not be in "unenjoyable" (for some) state today.
Now I haven't got any more energy to fight with the propaganda machine. At this point I'm just orbiting the monument and waiting my sub to expire or bare minimum usability fix to get the persistent windows back to inventory system in which point I could actually start thinking about reconfiguring my UI's, doing some industry work or fitting ships for pvp again (as in actually playing the game).
Call it about giving up or what you want. I've seen the dev blog what soundwave put up yesterday. It says plenty of nice things but still doesn't give us date for persistent multi window functionality. In fact it actually doesn't even promise that we get one, it only states that "we-¦d really like to".
All in all... What ever happens in the end, this unified misery could have been avoided. With or without me. The information was available and much can be learned from it in future. Hopefully this entire fiasco ends up nicer than it lasted. It is all up to CCP's real actions once again.
Get |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
597
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 10:42:00 -
[409] - Quote
Zenst wrote:I KNOW HOW TO FIX THISWhat is needed is the ability to plug a PS/3 controller into your PC and then that is used solely for controlling the new inventory system we have all got to know and love, though some in a beastality kind of way (though probably alot more than some in a simplex relationship). Now with this PS/3 controller, which normaly would be limited with the old system, you could then easily navigate the new inventory system in the most effecient way for the interface afforded. Alas my PC only has a PS/2 port so I feel that may not be supported. Or if CCP would be so gracious as to say do a video comparing how much easier it is to do things with the new system compared to the old system, like for like. Usualy everyday tasks, moving ships/modules from one station to another. Jumping several systems and changing drones every system to cator for dmg types or course. Go mine some ore and then pop into your hanger with other ore you have and stack and refine. Fitting 5 ships with drones, I'm sure there are many common day things people oculd list as well. But pick a few and please, for the love of Science - show us were we are going wrong and how you can actualy do things faster on a windows mobile platform than you can an android, err no wait I meant how you can do things faster with the new inventory system over the old system. Please just show us were so many are going wrong, or am I dusting up the wrong navigation tree! Reason I ask is that I feel the old system for speed was faster in getting alot of general day tasks done and would liek to see somebody versed in the new inventory system demonstrate it against the old system. I'm sure CCP with there world class QA and internal development people, some who have been in there roles over a whole month now are not only ahead of the curve, but already have such a video in-house as part of the QA initiative. Lets face it, don't be shy, we know your the best and a QA check list comparing tasks would of been 101 QA, and even recording it for reference and feedback would be 101 for a lesser company. So can you please just put us out of our misery and show us were we are going wrong. A picture speaks a thousand words, show us the dicionary please. Show us a video of how this is so much faster for the 99% of eve players.
I admit, I lol'd. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
601
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 11:17:00 -
[410] - Quote
Bauloe wrote:I am finding the new unified inventory system being similar to windows 7
Try Shift click the tabs and it will open a new window. This should solve most people's problem.
I think old eve players will need to start leaning to use a computer.
I think newer players need to learn that older players probably have worked out the most efficient use a system in game. Granted, systems change. But, there is absolutely no reason ignore old tricks. It's not that we're lazy and have settled for the way we do things. It's that there are specific ways to do things that are, quite frankly, so much easier than the way the new system would have you do it.
Your statement of shift click demonstrates how little you actually utilize the game's functionality. It works, but in a broken fashion. It will not retain those new windows. In fact, it will prompt you with some error message when you've done it for a ship's cargo and then swap out that ship or when you jump through a gate/wh you'll have a nice big inventory window appear for NO GODDAMED REASON!
Individual ship cargo windows: Is it that we're unable to adapt to the new system? No. It's that we don't like having to resize and move the uniinv for every task some of which are well suited for small windows that open in the same places and others that are suited for huge windows covering the majority of the screen. I don't want to have to open an inventory and resize it just to check how much ammo I have left in my ship's cargo. You've got to be ******* insane if you believe that to be more efficient.
POS management: It's not that we don't like the uniinv for that, cept, HTF do you efficiently use a system that is supposedly going to make inventory management efficient when we have to take inventory of every hangar, every SMA, every gun, every silo in order to determine what the hell we're trying to find when THEY'RE ALL NAMED THE SAME GODDAMED THING AND CAN'T BE RENAMED?!?!?
Ninja looting: The new uniinv breaks the ability to swoop past a wreck at +2000m/s and quickly grab the contents because it's spending time updating inventories for things you have no ******* way of accessing when you're out of range of them. I mean really! You've got to question a system that is querying **** you no intention or possibility of accessing. That's called BLOAT, my friend. It's programming without forethought or regard for efficient use of system resources which ultimately affects gameplay when every cpu cycle counts.
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
|
Jajas Helper
47
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 11:36:00 -
[411] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Bauloe wrote:I am finding the new unified inventory system being similar to windows 7
Try Shift click the tabs and it will open a new window. This should solve most people's problem.
I think old eve players will need to start leaning to use a computer.
I think newer players need to learn that older players probably have worked out the most efficient use a system in game. Granted, systems change. But, there is absolutely no reason ignore old tricks. It's not that we're lazy and have settled for the way we do things. It's that there are specific ways to do things that are, quite frankly, so much easier than the way the new system would have you do it. Your statement of shift click demonstrates how little you actually utilize the game's functionality. It works, but in a broken fashion. It will not retain those new windows. In fact, it will prompt you with some error message when you've done it for a ship's cargo and then swap out that ship or when you jump through a gate/wh you'll have a nice big inventory window appear for NO GODDAMED REASON! It also demonstrates that CCP did ZERO testing for usability. If I had to guess, their testing of this new feature consisted of opening it up while in station, seeing that it actually loaded and that was it. Certainly they never used it at a POS otherwise they would have realized that it breaks management of POS systems and MANUFACTURING. The importance of this apparently has alluded you, again demonstrating your lack of knowledge about how the game really works beyond ship spinning. Individual ship cargo windows: Is it that we're unable to adapt to the new system? No. It's that we don't like having to resize and move the uniinv for every task some of which are well suited for small windows that open in the same places and others that are suited for huge windows covering the majority of the screen. I don't want to have to open an inventory and resize it just to check how much ammo I have left in my ship's cargo. You've got to be ******* insane if you believe that to be more efficient. POS management: It's not that we don't like the uniinv for that, cept, HTF do you efficiently use a system that is supposedly going to make inventory management efficient when we have to take inventory of every hangar, every SMA, every gun, every silo in order to determine what the hell we're trying to find when THEY'RE ALL NAMED THE SAME GODDAMED THING AND CAN'T BE RENAMED?!?!? Ninja looting: The new uniinv breaks the ability to swoop past a wreck at +2000m/s and quickly grab the contents because it's spending time updating inventories for things you have no ******* way of accessing when you're out of range of them. I mean really! You've got to question a system that is querying **** you no intention or possibility of accessing. That's called BLOAT, my friend. It's programming without forethought or regard for efficient use of system resources which ultimately affects gameplay when every cpu cycle counts. And as some people mention, it's more like Windows....great.....then lets move the game out of its own programming environment and actually program it for windows. At least then we could move to other monitors all the other little windows we have to have open for the game to be functional leaving a 100px X 100px free space environment without having to render the graphics across multiple monitors at OMFG x WTF resolutions.
This man gets it
"Inferno the update, rollback plz" |
Solasta Kovacs
TURN LEFT
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 11:46:00 -
[412] - Quote
Spot on that man.
It is a bit like Windows. And like Microsoft, they try to make things look nicer and be a bit more acessible to new comers, but in the process make more work for people who are familiar with the systems (the ridiculous ribbons in Office now being a prime example of extra clicks for the same functionality)
When I get ready to undock, I want to swiftly and easily see whats in my hold, drag a few assorted bits of ammo etc from my always open items hangar, and get pewing... Now you cant even see whats already in the hold, whilst selecting the additions, without additional faffing around.
Upgrades and changes are good, but its just utterly stupid to damage existing functionality in the process. |
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
504
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 12:13:00 -
[413] - Quote
i pay 15 bucks or 480mil a month to click things. I have more space likes than you.-á |
Aoki Kenzo
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 12:33:00 -
[414] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Blatant Forum Alt wrote:Then this is a problem with implementation, rather than design concepts, and most of the whining I've read has been about the change to a unified window - hence the troll post up there ^ Sure, I can agree with that. The problem is that a lot of the implementation issues seem like they are direct effects of the attempt to move towards that unified window. Somewhere along the line, the thought that maybe some things shouldn't be fully unified seems to have been overlooked. The whines about the unification is how that design concept imposes itself onto a lot of use cases that outright call for multiple windows. It's kind of the design version of GÇ£categorical statements are categorically falseGÇ¥. I can fully understand the exuberance in putting everything they could into this new system, but now they need to step back and see what about the old system was actually useful (even more useful than the new one, in some cases), and ensure that those pre-existing good solutions are not overwritten with bad ones.
THIS THIS and THIS, Wasn't this obvious when you were developing unified inventory CCP? Wasn't It obvious? |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
234
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 12:49:00 -
[415] - Quote
Aoki Kenzo wrote:
THIS THIS and THIS, Wasn't this obvious when you were developing unified inventory CCP? Wasn't It obvious?
It's truly one of those mind-boggling business decisions. I expect this out of Blizzard, MicroSoft, Apple, and SONY. Oh, wait........ I think that God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability. In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Turgesson
Five-0 Suddenly Spaceships.
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 12:54:00 -
[416] - Quote
I don't know about anyone else but I'm always glad to beta test new Dust UIs.
There was nothing wrong with the ship, item and asset tabs we already had. Why would you waste development time on this to take a step BACK in usefulness then waste more time trying to make it as useful and easy to understand as the old system? I'm not a slow learner. I've taken time to learn your new windows UI and can defiantly say it was a waste of time and probably constructed by someone who doesn't understand this game.
In the old system if I wanted to swap something from the cargo of one ship to another I would open the ship hangar, open both cargo holds and drag from one to the other. In the new system if I want to perform the same function I need to find ships in a list do the shift-click thing unless it's the active ship then I open that in the big window and do the shift-click thing to the one the listed ships or try to open the ship hangar and ....how is this not bad?
Did I miss the users guide on exactly how to use all the new wonderful functions of the inventory UI or are we still in beta mode here and any documentation would be another waste of time because most of this will change? I really wish I could have a job like this but I'm in construction. In that field I can't install a leaky toilet and just say "Sorry about the sh!t all over your floor but I was waiting to see how you would use this thing. Please, just consider it a work in progress for a couple weeks and throw a few towels on the floor for the mess". |
Marcus Caspius
Vitriol Ventures Tribal Dragons
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 13:00:00 -
[417] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones.
Bit late don't you think?
Go kick your boss in the head and tell him I have a Village somewhere without an idiot!
|
Marcus Caspius
Vitriol Ventures Tribal Dragons
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 13:05:00 -
[418] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:Testerxnot Sheepherder wrote:> realizes agreeing to tippia post > what have I become?! > puts gun to head > *BOOM* I really wish people like you would have the common decency to lay down on several large sheets of plastic first. Think of the cleanup crew!
In all this bullshit SHIT_CLICK (no you read it right) and FAIL-FERNO you made me laugh! +1'd you... |
Jajas Helper
51
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 13:13:00 -
[419] - Quote
Marcus Caspius wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:Hey this is great I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones. Bit late don't you think? Go kick your boss in the head and tell him I have a Village somewhere without an idiot!
Please return the ccp idiot back to Marcus Caspius... Inferno do stuff with stuff to imitate the stuff you could already do with the old stuff
-stuff- |
Tarkoauc
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 13:41:00 -
[420] - Quote
Just a general observation regarding interfaces: A new design should require less clicks rather than more clicks. If you add clicks you are doing it wrong.
Having said that, why not have the old system as an option and let the customer choose what they like better? If the new system is so awesome that everyone uses it, then you can take the old system out next expansion and nobody complains. |
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Jajas Helper
53
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 13:59:00 -
[421] - Quote
Tarkoauc wrote:Just a general observation regarding interfaces: A new design should require less clicks rather than more clicks. If you add clicks you are doing it wrong.
Having said that, why not have the old system as an option and let the customer choose what they like better? If the new system is so awesome that everyone uses it, then you can take the old system out next expansion and nobody complains.
or remove the new system in the next expansion if nobody uses it ;)
"CCP Idontactualydomyjob" would make up statistics and then remove the old system again otherwise... Inferno do stuff with stuff to imitate the stuff you could already do with the old stuff
-stuff- |
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 15:37:00 -
[422] - Quote
Somehow I think CCP hired the Bethesda guyt hat made Skyrim inventory.... that is the ONLY POSSIBLE EXPLANATION! |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1309
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 18:57:00 -
[423] - Quote
GÖÑ persistent windows back sooner rather than later GÖÑ end to unfinished patches GÖÑ protesting at monument until fixed GÖÑ
Get |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 21:40:00 -
[424] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:There are always idiots that will complain about a broken feature on the TEST server.
Unfortunately you cannot please everybody.
Confirming that Tranquility does not belong to Goons anymore, and instead belongs to TEST.
:D |
Jajas Helper
85
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 23:10:00 -
[425] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:There are always idiots that will complain about a broken feature on the TEST server.
Unfortunately you cannot please everybody. Confirming that Tranquility does not belong to Goons anymore, and instead belongs to TEST. :D
Comfirming that goons are not happy with NOT beeing responsible for all the tears on this forum because of fail expansion... Inferno do stuff with stuff to imitate the stuff you could do faster with the old stuff
-stuff- |
beast rage
Miricom Scientific Rising Phoenix Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:12:00 -
[426] - Quote
so its been a couple days now has anyone heard anything on whats goin to happen with this? or should we all just go to jita and open our new unified inventory over and over till we overload the server?? |
Jajas Helper
110
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:18:00 -
[427] - Quote
beast rage wrote:so its been a couple days now has anyone heard anything on whats goin to happen with this? or should we all just go to jita and open our new unified inventory over and over till we overload the server??
Someone is doing a list or whatever on what to fix and how to make the new system useable... also ccp has started a guide to use the new system ( i still laugh at needing a guide for a system that supposed to make things easier )
All that is beeing done and we'll hear about it next tuesday - as monday is a holiday... "but someone is working on it" *wink*
1 -> implement new system (replacing a working system) 2 -> then spend time fixing the problems with the new system (because you have now made it more tedious and more annoying to play the game. 3 -> hope that after fixing some issues, your customers give up and accept that it now is going to take them alot more useless clicks and time to do while playing the game 4-> repeat process and keep ignoring customers Inferno do stuff with stuff to imitate the stuff you could do faster with the old stuff
-stuff- |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
165
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:53:00 -
[428] - Quote
beast rage wrote:so its been a couple days now has anyone heard anything on whats goin to happen with this? or should we all just go to jita and open our new unified inventory over and over till we overload the server?? This might be the best stress test ever.
284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284286 |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 16:29:00 -
[429] - Quote
That may be a great idea to bring a massive amount of orcas in Jita, fleet them, allow eachothers to open their Corporate hangar and then spam this button : Jita protest V2 :p
Seriously CCP you should consider to hire a testing team, that worth it. |
James Razor
RazorCorporation
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 16:34:00 -
[430] - Quote
Jajas Helper wrote:beast rage wrote:so its been a couple days now has anyone heard anything on whats goin to happen with this? or should we all just go to jita and open our new unified inventory over and over till we overload the server?? Someone is doing a list or whatever on what to fix and how to make the new system useable... also ccp has started a guide to use the new system ( i still laugh at needing a guide for a system that supposed to make things easier ) All that is beeing done and we'll hear about it next tuesday - as monday is a holiday... "but someone is working on it" *wink* 1 -> implement new system (replacing a working system) 2 -> then spend time fixing the problems with the new system (because you have now made it more tedious and more annoying to play the game. 3 -> hope that after fixing some issues, your customers give up and accept that it now is going to take them alot more useless clicks and time to do while playing the game 4-> repeat process and keep ignoring customers
Well, is anyone here still thinking that i was being hysteric when i called for protests in Jita?
CCPs attitude towards us didnt change at all. Even the biggest CCP Fanboi should by now realize that they dont give anything on us and still see us only as cashcows and Beta-Testers for their other projects. I still think we should shoot that Monument up a bit more for a while.
Oh and btw.: Why is that Server down again?
Old Bitter Veteran, SuperCap Owner, EX-GBC / EX-IT Member.
And as it looks, soon to be (again) EX - Eve Player. |
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beast will Fehrnah
Viziam Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:28:00 -
[431] - Quote
okay i have to ask does anyone from ccp play eve? i mean really let them trying doin something with the new inventory system so far i have not found anything its does better then the old system its slow, bulky and very inefficient cant even salvage with it the only thing thats semi cool is the price estimate when you hover over something and even thats pretty unreliable soo if they cant see its useless then i have to conclude they dont even play thier own game???? |
Yogsoloth
Percussive Diplomacy PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 05:03:00 -
[432] - Quote
Hooray 20 more pages of complaints and requests to go back to the old inventory system.
Dont fret people we're promised new weekly changes to fix the new failed system. |
mercuryyy
Apex Overplayed Coalition Fatal Ascension
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 06:17:00 -
[433] - Quote
Maintaining a bunch of pos reactions and setting up a few Planets with PI got me tenosynovitis in my mouse hand's wrist this weekend. 1/10, wouldn't patch again. |
Jajas Helper
130
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 08:47:00 -
[434] - Quote
SO today CCP employees are back to work... after their well deserved holiday, we might get some reaction from ccp and to what extend they are willing to admit that the new system was nowhere near ready to go live AND what they're planning to do about it...
4days of fail inventory... and my shift button is starting to wear out
Inferno do stuff with stuff to imitate the stuff you could do faster with the old stuff
-stuff- |
KanashiiKami
104
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 08:12:00 -
[435] - Quote
i think what is happening here is ... CCP brought in a new batch of (?cheap?) coders ... and they do not know the game and its styles of play most people use. so they saw an interface, thinks that it could be streamlined ... and bam !
these changes are likened to WOW, we need new level caps (again, all the bosses are recycled mobs) ... CCP, we need to shuffle things around abit (again the entire universe is still the same). but in wow, 3rd party addons really added real functionality to the game which blizzard eventually also streamlined into gameplay (not all of course), however in CCP case, it seems like they are planting and uprooting a sprouting tree (over and over again) and killing alot more than just the tree, birds, lizards, insects, etc ... o wow ... just wow ... fwooooo !! LOL WUT ??? |
Furian Warrior
REPUBLIKA ORLA Inver Brass
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 12:35:00 -
[436] - Quote
This new interface move my eve experience to new level: NIGHTMARE...
So many peoples hate it why You do not want give us old inventory back?
|
Darak McMalus
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 18:04:00 -
[437] - Quote
Please change it back, my wife keeps complaining while she is making money for me to pvp. It hard enough to get your own eve slave, don't ruin it for me. |
Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
339
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 23:20:00 -
[438] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:...because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem...
refreshing honesty
... |
Private Pineapple
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
227
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 01:11:00 -
[439] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome.
Confirmed. I am the Kingpin of the Crime and Punishment forum.
I am the rightful heir to the CSM 8 throne.
|
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
957
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 01:54:00 -
[440] - Quote
Furian Warrior wrote:This new interface move my eve experience to new level: NIGHTMARE...
So many peoples hate it why You do not want give us old inventory back?
becuase with the fixes most people don't hate it. When people HATE a change to eve, like the nex store no more hanger view crap, a 50 page rage thread would pop up over night, full of people who normally wouldn't complain.
This got a 23 page thread of rage, and after the fixes it has only gotten a total of 130 posters that are still angry. And thoses aren't my numbers, that numbers was confrimed by a blue post who can see through alts. Only 130 have complained about the UI since the fixes went live. Most people were mad because windows didn't remember their place in space/station. And shift click was a nightmare.
Now CCP have fixed almost all issues of the new UI. POS mods filter into categorys, windows remember where they were open, tree will stay closed if you want it to.
With the next release bring back the ship and item buttons on the neocom, I don't think most normal players see what the problem is. It's just an extra tool for moving things around, finding all your stuff. It's handy. It just shouldn't of been released unfinished. it should of stayed on SiSi untill it was done and working. they shouldn't of ignored feedback untill after release. but almost no one thinks it should be removed for the old windows 3.1 system. Don't be an idoit, you tried to steal a campain to fix the new UI as your own. but now most people are happy, and you've lost your support.
Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 sales Xbox 360: 2.2 million PlayStation 3: 1.5 million PC: 500,000http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
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