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cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.09.21 20:58:00 - [871] Originally by: Hoo Is Originally by: Leneerra So you are scamming me for anything between 200M and 300M (1 to 2 months worth of intrest) before you will even tell me what options I will have to lose isk on this whole thing? I will repeat as often that that this is not accepteble. of course I can do little else than post about it. After listening to your trap flapping non-stop even though everything you have asked has already been answered 514 times... If I were on the BoD, I'd make sure you didn't get a single isk back. Your account would be zeroed out to help our other account holders just because you are bing a PITA This should be called pro-active scamming. On Oct 15th they will announce a list with all the people who haven't complained and give them back 100%. All the rest of the money is in a pot, and there will be a huge battle in low sec with winner takes all from all the moaners
Mjolnirsmith	Posted - 2009.09.21 22:16:00 - [872] I'm with Leneera on this. The suggestion that the "bank" should somehow punish Leneera for her dissent only makes sense if the "bank" is not a bank but a scam that is stringing us along. The very idea that the "bank" members should somehow single out people who complain and punish them for it is not in keeping with the concept of a "bank". The standoffish demeanor of Ray in most of this thread is also not in keeping with how a "bank" should operate. Large parts of this thread suffer from a horrible is/ought conflation. There are many punitive, terrible things that Ray and ebank could do with other people's isk. That does not mean that they would be justified in doing so, at least insofar as they consider themselves a "bank". When you claim to roleplay as a banking institution but act with the demeanor of a taunting pirate, complete with botched priorities (it's our isk, and should be our choice about what gets done with it: that is if you treat our deposits as banking transaction) and an insulting attitude towards customers, you are a scammer. I guess one of the most aggravating things about this fiasco is that ebank members periodically post as if they want to continue with the "banking roleplaying" part of ebank (and people continue to suck up to them about it!), yet their method of handling our deposited isk in face of this crisis belies the behavior of disrespectful scammer/pirates. I've said it before: you really do not have the right to set the timetable and terms by which you will try to make amends and fix ebank, even if as a matter of fact (i.e. because you hold our isk hostage) you have the power to do so.
Leneerra Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.22 16:05:00 - [873] AC155, I hope you understand when I say I consider your humor currently too expensive for my taste. But it really clarifies the situation if all I can do is whine and all you can do is make jokes about it. I will dig deep in my personal reserves of humor and try not to take your remark too serious. Mjolnirsmith, Sorry to name you in one post with someone telling me not to trust him until October the 15th at least (should I take his answer seriously). But you do seem to follow my thinking on this matter. I would be appalled should people such as AC155, Ray MCCormack, Athre, LaVistaVista and whomever else I may still trust on that board drop their names in the gutter for all to see over a few posts and a measly account value of 4.4B isk before losses
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.09.22 19:56:00 - [874] Originally by: Leneerra AC155, I hope you understand when I say I consider your humor currently too expensive for my taste. But it really clarifies the situation if all I can do is whine and all you can do is make jokes about it. I will dig deep in my personal reserves of humor and try not to take your remark too serious. At the moment you essentially have two options. 1. Wait until the next announcement and whine about things until it comes 2. Wait until the next announcement I canÆt make the choice for you but I can try to bring humor into a **ty situation, if for nothing else than my own benefit. I know the situation as a whole is far from ideal but I can tell you with 100% certainty that no amount of whining/flaming/trolling/anything else is going to change things before the next announcement. Feel free to continue but remember that it is your wasted time/energy/effort. Originally by:** Leneerra I would be appalled should people such as AC155, Ray MCCormack, Athre, LaVistaVista and whomever else I may still trust on that board drop their names in the gutter for all to see over a few posts and a measly account value of 4.4B isk before losses LVV is not on the Ebank BoD. IÆm really not concerned about my name being dropped into your gutter. Eve is a game that I try not to take too seriously, IÆd suggest you try doing the same. <Amarr's signature>
Roguehalo Caldari RH Ship Brokers	Posted - 2009.09.22 21:00:00 - [875] "whine in here" ? What a totally insulting way to talk to people who entrusted their isk to Ebank All you can do now is liquidate....I know that you know that so why not just say so? People aren't expecting much from this anymore. They have seen how rubbish the 'elite team' turned out to be. So if you gonna give them back 10% 15% or whatever then just GET ON WITH IT!!!. How hard is it to say :- "We are in the process of gathering together whatever is left and will distribute that to account holders as soon as we have devised a mechanism for so doing"? That's all there is for you to do now.......collect whatever isk is left and distribute it. And tbh you are showing yourself as rubbish at doing that as Ebank was at making isk.
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.22 22:29:00 - [876] Originally by: Roguehalo "whine in here" ? What a totally insulting way to talk to people who entrusted their isk to Ebank All you can do now is liquidate....I know that you know that so why not just say so? People aren't expecting much from this anymore. They have seen how rubbish the 'elite team' turned out to be. So if you gonna give them back 10% 15% or whatever then just GET ON WITH IT!!!. How hard is it to say :- "We are in the process of gathering together whatever is left and will distribute that to account holders as soon as we have devised a mechanism for so doing"? That's all there is for you to do now.......collect whatever isk is left and distribute it. And tbh you are showing yourself as rubbish at doing that as Ebank was at making isk. Isn't it the usual Ebank tactic to insult their customer base when questioned? At this point, I think it's clear to most of us that they won't simply liquidate. Regardless of whether or not it's the right decision to make, I doubt it's even being considered as a serious option. They are clinging desperately to the project that they've invested so many man hours in. Can't say that I wouldn't do the same. I understand how it can be when you've put so much effort into something. That doesn't make it the right thing to do though. My prediction is that Ebank will offer 2 options: 1. An Ebank controlled auction-style buyout to third-parties for those who want a percentage of their isk now. 2. Keep your account and be able to withdraw in a year or two. It's certain that they will have a huge run in withdrawls the moment they allow them. We know that, Ebank knows that. I'd bet that they are going to use that to their advantage by liquidating before enabling withdrawls, then using the run to reduce their overall size. There will surely be those who don't withdrawl and those that are inactive, so they will use that remaining capital and reassess their projects and investments accordingly. Not a bad plan, really. We can discuss payment for it after it's used.
Drab Cane Carbenadium Industries	Posted - 2009.09.22 22:38:00 - [877] Originally by: Leneerra I would be appalled should people such as AC155, Ray MCCormack, Athre, LaVistaVista and whomever else I may still trust on that board drop their names in the gutter for all to see over a few posts and a measly account value of 4.4B isk before losses Originally by: Ray McCormack I'll restate then what has been repeated ad nauseam. Your choices will be detailed in the next announcement due Oct 15 - Nov 1st. Liquidation will not be an option. As depositors, we're screwed. We're losing money every minute that we aren't earning interest, or have it in our personal wallets where we could be making money off of it ourselves. Now, we are waiting to see if our options will improve over the initial "we'll get you your principal, eventually." As for me, I've accepted the fact that we're going to have to wait 'til the end of October to hear anything new. So I'll wait. If anyone else "still trusts" the EBank BoD as Leneerra does, I suggest they suck it up and do the same. ----------------------------------------------- - Who Dares, Wins
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.22 22:47:00 - [878] Originally by: Drab Cane Originally by: Leneerra I would be appalled should people such as AC155, Ray MCCormack, Athre, LaVistaVista and whomever else I may still trust on that board drop their names in the gutter for all to see over a few posts and a measly account value of 4.4B isk before losses Originally by: Ray McCormack I'll restate then what has been repeated ad nauseam. Your choices will be detailed in the next announcement due Oct 15 - Nov 1st. Liquidation will not be an option. As depositors, we're screwed. We're losing money every minute that we aren't earning interest, or have it in our personal wallets where we could be making money off of it ourselves. Now, we are waiting to see if our options will improve over the initial "we'll get you your principal, eventually." As for me, I've accepted the fact that we're going to have to wait 'til the end of October to hear anything new. So I'll wait. If anyone else "still trusts" the EBank BoD as Leneerra does, I suggest they suck it up and do the same. People are wrong to assume that they are losing 1.5% monthly in interest. They are actually losing a much higher percentage. If opportunity cost applies to minerals, datacores, and salvage, then it also applies to profit lost by the isk being unavailable.
SetrakDark	Posted - 2009.09.22 23:00:00 - [879] It's different for everyone depending on what they'd be doing with the money if they had access to it.
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.22 23:08:00 - [880] Originally by: SetrakDark It's different for everyone depending on what they'd be doing with the money if they had access to it. No no, it's always the maximum amount of profit that can be generated from the isk, whether the person would actually use it or not.

SetrakDark	Posted - 2009.09.22 23:15:00 - [881] Originally by: Solisk No no, it's always the maximum amount of profit that can be generated from the isk, whether the person would actually use it or not. I respectfully disagree, and leave it at that.
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.22 23:28:00 - [882] Originally by: SetrakDark Originally by: Solisk No no, it's always the maximum amount of profit that can be generated from the isk, whether the person would actually use it or not. I respectfully disagree, and leave it at that. It was sarcasm (not specifically direct towards you).
SetrakDark	Posted - 2009.09.22 23:47:00 - [883] ahhhh ok. nice background btw
Drab Cane Carbenadium Industries	Posted - 2009.09.22 23:59:00 - [884] For those who need to watch their mounting losses: Interest Loss Counter You can check it every day to see the interest percentage you've lost to date. Solisk: Agreed, there are also opportunity costs for those people who would have withdrawn their money to do something with it. For those who put their ISK into EBank long-term because they couldn't find a more profitable place for it, their interest losses won't become 'real' until they would have wanted to withdraw their funds. ----------------------------------------------- - Who Dares, Wins
nemmes Celestial Ascension	Posted - 2009.09.23 01:49:00 - [885] Originally by: Drab Cane Solisk: Agreed, there are also opportunity costs for those people who would have withdrawn their money to do something with it. For those who put their ISK into EBank long-term because they couldn't find a more profitable place for it, their interest losses won't become 'real' until they would have wanted to withdraw their funds. Someone like myself. Liquidated my entire 5,5b asset list to save while i was away from game. Three days later the freeze was announced. All i can say is that i hope the bank is able to turn itself around and start making money again. While investor confidence may be shaken by the current bank issues, I for one am confident, from hearing what ray and Lavista have been commenting on, that a solution to this problem can be found. I won't be withdrawing my money once the freeze is lifted, at least in whole. "Take me up in the arms of fate, with the strength of conviction and the hope of dreams"
Jin Nib	Posted - 2009.09.23 01:54:00 - [886] Originally by: Drab Cane For those who need to watch their mounting losses: Interest Loss Counter You can check it every day to see the interest percentage you've lost to date. Solisk: Agreed, there are also opportunity costs for those people who would have withdrawn their money to do something with it. For those who put their ISK into EBank long-term because they couldn't find a more profitable place for it, their interest losses won't become 'real' until they would have wanted to withdraw their funds. Its not published it says. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Drab Cane Carbenadium Industries	Posted - 2009.09.23 02:50:00 - [887] Hmmm. That didn't work out as cool looking as I hoped. Oh well. Try this link: Interest Loss Counter ----------------------------------------------- - Who Dares, Wins
SetrakDark	Posted - 2009.09.23 03:33:00 - [888] Originally by: nemmes While investor confidence may be shaken by the current bank issues, I for one am confident, from hearing what ray and Lavista have been commenting on, that a solution to this problem can be found. I think other depositors could use some of this reassurance. Could you please direct everyone to the comments whose penetrating insights into this problem helped put your fears at ease? Thanks.
Leneerra Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.23 05:41:00 - [889] AC155, I guess you misunderstood me. The gutter I was referring to would be tied to the hypotatical situation where you (ebank) would zero my account because of me complaining abut the lousy way you treat me and your other customers. Thank you for clarefying who is on the ebank board, I must admit I have not kept myself totaly abrest with all the (unpublished) changes since Ricdic's departure. However I was merely referring to some of the names that I connect to ebank that I still consider to have personal integrety (Nobody was ommited from that list on purpose). My blamelist for integrety is still limited to 1 person (please list defaulters (and add underperforming managers etc) as promised so we can start flinging mud in their direction as wel). And while Ray's directness is in a way refreshing, as a whole I would consider ebank a near total failure on customer relations, timely publication of importand issues, internal oversight, as well as the presentation of new features, to be released soon, for over a year. And of course they have so far failed on managing my isk. In all not a shining example.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.23 10:12:00 - [890] Quote: People are wrong to assume that they are losing 1.5% monthly in interest. They are actually losing a much higher percentage. If opportunity cost applies to minerals, datacores, and salvage, then it also applies to profit lost by the isk being unavailable. It's different for everyone depending on what they'd be doing with the money if they had access to it. In any case, the loss cannot be calculated as below pure interest rate over a frozen (hence unable to withdraw) account. For a typical 1B deposit at 1.5% / month, compounded interest past the suggested force-freeze 2 years would be equal to: 429.5M. For a typical 10B deposit at 3% / month savings account, compounded interest past the suggested force-freeze 2 years would be equal to: 10327941064 (10B and 328M). So, those would be the minimum losses. This, unless I made totally wrong math, means that if you had 10B in a savings account, you are going to lose more than your full principal if you could move it into another bank at same interest rate. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz

Lord Delacroix	Posted - 2009.09.23 13:26:00 - [891] Edited by: Lord Delacroix on 23/09/2009 13:26:52 its just a gigantic ponzi scheme lol. ever since they started running the bank, they had no clue whether or not they are running a deficit... can it get even more obvious that you guys wont get your internets dollars back?
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.23 13:35:00 - [892] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 23/09/2009 10:54:11 Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 23/09/2009 10:51:44 Quote: People are wrong to assume that they are losing 1.5% monthly in interest. They are actually losing a much higher percentage. If opportunity cost applies to minerals, datacores, and salvage, then it also applies to profit lost by the isk being unavailable. It's different for everyone depending on what they'd be doing with the money if they had access to it. In any case, the loss cannot be calculated as below pure interest rate over a frozen (hence unable to withdraw) account. For a typical 1B deposit at 1.5% / month, compounded interest past the suggested force-freeze 2 years would be equal to: 429.5M. For a typical 10B deposit at 3% / month savings account, compounded interest past the suggested force-freeze 2 years would be equal to: 10327941064 (10B and 328M). So, those would be the minimum losses. This, unless I made totally wrong math, means that if you had 10B in a savings account, you are going to lose more than your full principal if you could move it into another bank at same interest rate. To enable withdrawals one of the conditions are: "a. Available capital must exceed 1.7t ISK. It currently stands at 0.8t." Starting with 0.8T, to get to 1.7t, EBANK would require to earn 3.24% a month with no withdrawal. Edit: the accounts being frozen was one of the possible exit strategies. Since they want to get back to operativity and not liquidate, frozing the accounts stopped an exponential process of capital drawdown that would have completely depleted EBANK in little time. Unless I'm not following correctly, your math was wrong (off by 1 factor, it seems). The part I want to address is the bolded part. We all know that Ebank is going to have a capital drawdown, as you put it, in the initial hours/days after unfreezing accounts. This means that they undoubtedly know this and plan to use it to their advantage to shrink the size of the bank as a whole. As they are unsure of just how many account holders are going to withdrawl/close accounts, they are going to have to wait until after the run to decide the future of their investment projects. I'm wondering if they aren't counting on account holder "apathy" and inactive accounts to fund their "re-emergence".
Tawron Viziam	Posted - 2009.09.23 13:36:00 - [893] Edited by: Tawron on 23/09/2009 13:35:55 Im not sure what's funniest the fact that Ebank is able to keep the pretence of ever giving people there isk back or the fact people were stupid enough to hand there isk over to a bank in a game where scamming is so free of consequences.
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.23 13:43:00 - [894] Originally by: Tawron Edited by: Tawron on 23/09/2009 13:35:55 Im not sure what's funniest the fact that Ebank is able to keep the pretence of ever giving people there isk back or the fact people were stupid enough to hand there isk over to a bank in a game where scamming is so free of consequences. I'm going with option 3. Option 3: The fact that idiots with nothing constructive to say keep popping in and spewing nonsense because they don't have the mental capacity to follow an intelligent discussion. Option 4: The fact that you seem to think people care about what you think. Option 5: The fact that you have so many facts. Factfactfact. All were good options, but option 3 is the best methinks.
Dzil Caldari Sausage Banking	Posted - 2009.09.23 13:57:00 - [895] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 At the moment you essentially have two options. 1. Wait until the next announcement and whine about things until it comes 2. Wait until the next announcement There are other options. I would suggest the most vindictive thing you could do would be to start your own bank, succeed where ebank failed, and ensure they are never able to regain a place in the market. At any rate, don't ever accept the false dilemma a salesman gives you. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.09.23 14:48:00 - [896] Originally by: Dzil Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 At the moment you essentially have two options. 1. Wait until the next announcement and whine about things until it comes 2. Wait until the next announcement There are other options. I would suggest the most vindictive thing you could do would be to start your own bank, succeed where ebank failed, and ensure they are never able to regain a place in the market. At any rate, don't ever accept the false dilemma a salesman gives you. You could do that, but that wouldn't address the need to withdraw your isk which is what we are talking about. <Amarr's signature>
tehsuxOr Poor Old Ornery nOObs	Posted - 2009.09.23 15:15:00 - [897] AC, are there still any no collateral loans within ebank? If so how many fo what amounts. You guys must have missed my question on page 28/29.
Tawron Viziam	Posted - 2009.09.23 15:19:00 - [898] Edited by: Tawron on 23/09/2009 15:19:22 Originally by: Solisk Words
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.09.23 18:36:00 - [899] Originally by: tehsuxOr AC, are there still any no collateral loans within ebank? If so how many fo what amounts. You guys must have missed my question on page 28/29. Sorry, been meaning to answer that. Yes, there are still grandfathered loans without collateral. The exact amount and value won't be released. But be assured no new loans are being given without collateral. Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
tehsuxOr Poor Old Ornery nOObs	Posted - 2009.09.23 18:59:00 - [900] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: tehsuxOr AC, are there still any no collateral loans within ebank? If so how many fo what amounts. You guys must have missed my question on page 28/29. Sorry, been meaning to answer that. Yes, there are still grandfathered loans without collateral. The exact amount and value won't be released. But be assured no new loans are being given without collateral. Thanks for the reply, was just curious.



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