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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 62 post(s) |
Disdaine
377
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Posted - 2012.06.05 05:23:00 -
[91] - Quote
How long has the new neocom been around now?
Still waiting for it to have the same functionality as what it replaced.
At this rate unified inventory should be good to go in six months. |
Tequila Breeze
Austudy The Welfare State
19
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Posted - 2012.06.05 05:27:00 -
[92] - Quote
lixxi chixxi wrote:I have a unified inventory improvement suggestion - roll it back - it sucks.
Unsub 2 accounts !
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Kasriel
179
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Posted - 2012.06.05 05:32:00 -
[93] - Quote
these forums are ******* shocking it just ate my post three times and i cba to find the quotes again.
essentially it boils down to:
it's nice to know how much all those messages from CCP Soundwave meant, you know all those ones saying they would keep patching it till this piece of crap UI worked with no lost functionality compared to the old one? now you've basically said everybody is stuck with it in it's current buggy form for AT LEAST another few weeks.
awesome |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
43
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Posted - 2012.06.05 05:43:00 -
[94] - Quote
CCP I think that the unified inventory is great, an obvious step in the right direction for the UI, and anyone complaining at this point wouldn't be happy no matter what you did or is crying cause their botting program isn't working....
Please keep up the excellent work on FIS!!!!!
Respectfully,
Dorn Just like there is no I in Team there is no Fair in Eve... |
Arcos Vandymion
Rare Exports Pirate Coalition
9
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Posted - 2012.06.05 05:58:00 -
[95] - Quote
So I resubbed on saturday cuz I could and because I was bored. First thing I did was to check out where the hell I left and what I was doing and that includes my HOLYCRABWHATWEIRDWINDOWISTHIS-cargo. So I hauled back to my "home" and after trying!!! to reorganize my HUD I just gave up.
Sure - the inventory is unified now - all the stuff in one window - but I had that before. Shiphangar, stationhangar, wallet were all on the bottom of the screen, 15 items wide and 5 high. Containers, dronebays, shipcargo all in the lower right, 5 wide, 3 high. Now I have a gignatic slab on the bottom which I still have problems to navigate. The best pro I can come up with is that I don't have to scroll though my stationhangar to access the SSCs containing implants and BPOs/BPCs/salvage/whatever, and that is not much of a trade for a semi-beautiful window. Besides that the tabs just changed from top to left.
Now let's see what I don't like. It's called UNIFIED inventory. It has a lot of items in different locations. WHY - tell me WHY didn't you just make ANOTHER tree that said "Assets". WHY? Where's the DIFFERENCE? Just do it.
I completely forgot to check out where the hell my wallet went, but I recon it will still occupy the same place it did before - unchanged. It could need some work too. Thanks for telling me that all my assets and ships together are like 450m currently. Now I feel poor, but it saves me the time to calc it myself xD.
Wanna bet I can find more stuff to go into rage-mode over once I have time to play a bit more with it, starting thursday? |
Georgiy Giggle
REFORD Division REFORD
41
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Posted - 2012.06.05 06:30:00 -
[96] - Quote
Oh, won't we need to press SHIFT anymore when want to open cargohold, item hangar, container etc? Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established. - Confucius |
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
412
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Posted - 2012.06.05 06:49:00 -
[97] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Ramman K'arojic wrote:Soundwave,
Given the vast number of thread-naughts with comments and suggestions from every pod and his dog ; is there are definitive complete authoritative list of improvements that will be made at some point between UI - say between now and end of the year ?
Ramm Not definitive, we have a long list that we're constantly adding to. You'll very likely see us iterating based on feedback till late in the year if needed, so this feature is definitely not being left behind :)
Can I have a look at the current list of improvements concerning the UI? You just said; we will slow down the rate of patches but bring more stuff some day. What exact do you mean? What stuff? What is your time frame?
- More available independent windows; adjustable in size and position -WITHOUT any Shift+crap? Just doubleclicks? - All former options back into the right click menues? - All Icons back to the NeoCom?
WHAT? What kind of stuff do you will re implement? You just said nothing about the further improvements. Something about the performance and lag and something about the feedback from the forums; but NOTHING about the function itself. It is irrelevant what performance this unified crap will have. I can not use the whole concept of "JUST ONE WINDOW" idea! I need doubleclicks; Icons and hundreds of own windows. NOT this unified UI!
Will you bring back the 100% copy of the old UI? And if not; WHY? The old UI never had performance issues. The issues came up with the new unified Crap-UI. I can't play EVE at present. Because of THIS: http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez1wz4.jpg |
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
412
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 06:56:00 -
[98] - Quote
Lord Helghast wrote:Culmen wrote:You know at the rate CCP is going... they might end up rolling back the whole thing one piece at a time.
All of this could have been avoided if they just tacked on the tree view to the old inventory scheme and didn't muck with anything else.
Adding a feature to an existing one is probably going to be a lot less painful than replacing it wholesale, AND THEN going on a loop back to the old feature. Wow you guys really dont get this... THEY COULDNT DO ANYTHING TO THE OLD CRAP, it was 10 year old uncommented crappy code that they litterally had to fork lift out and replace from the ground up, there was no "tacking on XXX" to the inventory, it was a full and entire rewrite they've said it like a DOZEN times already.
THAN; they have to absolute rebuild the old UI with their new code BEFORE they do anything else. As WE ALL said it DOZEN times already. I can't play EVE at present. Because of THIS: http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez1wz4.jpg |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1135
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 07:17:00 -
[99] - Quote
Am I allowed a constructive comment?
I noticed the new UI still takes 9.6 seconds to load the items in a station.
It's just few items but they are containers with hundreds of stuff inside.
Tip to speed it up tenfold: only load containers content on demand (lazy load) so we only wait on the 1-2 containers we really wanted to open and not all 51. The same applies to POSes and everywhere there's a complex tree. Have it loaded only when requested, not all the time. All the time = huge waste of time and servers queries.
Another suggestion.
When the user presses the inventory button change the effect to this:
1) If any UI has visible tree => do nothing. 2) If no UI window has visible tree spawn tree UI at center of screen. This will avoid the HUGELY ANNOYING situation where we setup all the station as we want but if there's no tree view you have to start fiddling, expanding and whatever. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Dex Tera
New Eden Burns Moist.
23
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Posted - 2012.06.05 07:20:00 -
[100] - Quote
Panhead4411 wrote:Wait, so, your telling me that when the Dev's have told us that returning the UI functionality to something even remotely close to what he had before by saying this was the "main focus until this is fixed" really means most of us who lost most of our daily functionality still can't play this game as we have for the past YEARS until a whole MONTH after you release this broken thing onto TQ after almost a MONTH of feedback on SiSi telling you it wasn't ready?
I hope for your learning sake you guys lose even more subs b/c you are too stubborn to see why all of these accounts are unsubbing.
You seem to be forgetting that ppl in corps CAN'T access stuff, who cares if it loads slower for the few that can...you are breaking alot of WH/0.0 corps with this "feature". And now you are telling them they can't operate on the normal level for another 3 weeks?
What happened to this seemingly stellar new attitude that you guys knew you broke it and were going to try hard to fix it? At this stage, forget 'the regular expansion/release" schedule, get this fixed. NOW. Don't complain about how quick you've had to push out releases, when you caused this to begin with. It would not have happened had you listened to feedback to begin with. Period.
dude STFU HTFU & ADAPT IT WORKS FINE YOUR JUST A WHINER! |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
3642
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 07:24:00 -
[101] - Quote
:)
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Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
272
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 07:30:00 -
[102] - Quote
One would think that frequent updates which do work, are better then bigger infrequent updates which do not work. You want fries with that? |
Kniht
Inter Arma Dead On Arrival Alliance
3
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Posted - 2012.06.05 07:38:00 -
[103] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:[We're stuck in centralized source control.]
hg, git, bzr
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Dead On Arrival Alliance
366
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Posted - 2012.06.05 08:16:00 -
[104] - Quote
One thing I can mention as a positive is that when copying bookmarks to give to allies for, say, hopping fleets into wormholes, this is now faster with the UI changes.
More broadly, you whiners need to grow up and deal with it as adults. Calling CCP idiots is not the way to go forward with this. By all means, list your problems and complaints (even I am guilty of not using the bug reporter as much as I should; but to be fair all of these issues were reported by corpmates) but don't just come onto the forums and sperge crap about how you are going to unsub, demand refunds, demand your pound of flesh.
The fact you are having a suboptimal experience is as much down to you not engaging as much as you should have with playtesting as it is with CCP not listening during the development and testing cycle on SiSi and pulling the trigger too early. It didn't break the game except for hardcore industrialists, but from my POV they have just found workarounds to deficiencies in the old UI which they have made habits, and are now complaining because it is hard to retrain habits.
This is true for me, too. I was used to right-click open new instance. Now I shift-click. OMG, so hard! The issues is in-front-of keyboard, not in the coding backend in this case.
The issues which really matter here are the freezes, the disconnects, the hanging and the load times which this Unified Inventory has brought about. Ideally, the game shouldn't cark it when you swap ships with an open cargo. it should close the cargo automatically, stop pinging the database for information on each and every damn item on grid with you (seriously) and then smoothly get into the new ship.
The game as it stands now, going on a decade old, is much more complex than it once was. The Unified Inventory is a way of flattening this information (as a dude who works with databases, I know what kind of performance benefits this can have) which in theory, should improve the experience.
The problem as I see it, is the Unified Inventory is too broad. It is trying to gather too much information around the player in space, display it in a flat format, and this then loads too much data into the program at once. Every item has a massive list of attributes, and the UI seems to want to put all of that at your fingertips for EVERYTHING all at once. Nice, in theory, but somewhere it is breaking down and the game chokes on this flood of information.
The devs and programmers, meanwhile, have to put up with presumably adult men acting like three year old girls who've had their ponies taken away for cleaning. Grow up, or actually unsub before telling us you will. Which you won't - misery loves company, and all the whiners are pretty bloody miserable.
The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Lucian Anell
Corvus Technologies
0
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Posted - 2012.06.05 08:22:00 -
[105] - Quote
For some reason the new inventory took a few steps backwards for me in the last day or two. I have not really an idea what patch (or other influence) causes this, but the memory capability of the new inventory seems to have commited suicide recently.
Why? Because it cannot remember anything.
- "My filters" minimized? Why not have to do it again every time?
- New positions and sizes for every new ship you activate? Spend some quality time arranging it for the x-th time.
- Size of the index column? Oh come on ... you can spend those precious seconds every time you open the inventory.
Don't get me wrong. At the end of it all, I quiet like the new inventory system in general. I set up a POS the other day and wasn't really shocked as well (Question here: why does EVERY structure automatically have the full list of corp-divions? Why not have none and then be able to add them individually or all at once?) But the inabilty of the inventory to remember a ###### thing really drives me crazy.
Oh .... and one other suggestion. Why does the inventory forcefully drag me into another sub-folder (e.g. the item hangar) if I drag items there from somewhere else and just hoover over said sub-folder for a second to long? Folders should open when I click on them, not when my mouse cursor is just over them for two seconds .... or at least have the option to turn this "feature" off. Makes dragging stuff around rather cumbersome in my opinion.
The old German saying "surgery successful, patient dead" isn't yet true for the inventory, but the patient is surely having some problems ... Lucian |
Bim bo
Mindstar Technology Executive Outcomes
6
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Posted - 2012.06.05 08:34:00 -
[106] - Quote
ccp realeases a "toyota patch",customer complain accellerator get stuck, ccp say only give half throtle u'll be fine,customers still complain, ccp says we will give u new paint job,customers still complain, ccp says well give u bigger alloy wheels in a mounth, customers still complaint!
please call back the "toyota" ccp |
Arcos Vandymion
Rare Exports Pirate Coalition
10
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Posted - 2012.06.05 08:42:00 -
[107] - Quote
Lucian Anell wrote: Oh .... and one other suggestion. Why does the inventory forcefully drag me into another sub-folder (e.g. the item hangar) if I drag items there from somewhere else and just hoover over said sub-folder for a second to long? Folders should open when I click on them, not when my mouse cursor is just over them for two seconds .... or at least have the option to turn this "feature" off. Makes dragging stuff around rather cumbersome in my opinion. Lucian
I don't think it that much of an issue - it just mimics the funtonality of the windows explorer here. Ever tried dragging stuff around in your start menu? Can't comment on much else as I didn't even try to adjust it yet. I just CBA so far and I'll probably just wait another few weeks. Not like reloading ammo needs me to open the inventory - I can rightclick my guns =).
+1 to Trinkets friend for best post on threadnaught (followed by Chribbas xD)
Trinkets friend wrote: The problem as I see it, is the Unified Inventory is too broad. It is trying to gather too much information around the player in space, display it in a flat format, and this then loads too much data into the program at once. Every item has a massive list of attributes, and the UI seems to want to put all of that at your fingertips for EVERYTHING all at once. Nice, in theory, but somewhere it is breaking down and the game chokes on this flood of information.
As far as I am concerned the UI could load the assets too - that way at least all the inventories would be unified into one window. The procedure for loading said information would certainly have to be worked on (e.g.: allways have "Assets" as a possible tree but minimized and unloaded - after all you don't look stuff up there that often. At least I don't). |
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
272
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:49:00 -
[108] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:One thing I can mention as a positive is that when copying bookmarks to give to allies for, say, hopping fleets into wormholes, this is now faster with the UI changes.
More broadly, you whiners need to grow up and deal with it as adults. Calling CCP idiots is not the way to go forward with this. By all means, list your problems and complaints (even I am guilty of not using the bug reporter as much as I should; but to be fair all of these issues were reported by corpmates) but don't just come onto the forums and sperge crap about how you are going to unsub, demand refunds, demand your pound of flesh.
The fact you are having a suboptimal experience is as much down to you not engaging as much as you should have with playtesting as it is with CCP not listening during the development and testing cycle on SiSi and pulling the trigger too early. It didn't break the game except for hardcore industrialists, but from my POV they have just found workarounds to deficiencies in the old UI which they have made habits, and are now complaining because it is hard to retrain habits.
This is true for me, too. I was used to right-click open new instance. Now I shift-click. OMG, so hard! The issues is in-front-of keyboard, not in the coding backend in this case.
The issues which really matter here are the freezes, the disconnects, the hanging and the load times which this Unified Inventory has brought about. Ideally, the game shouldn't cark it when you swap ships with an open cargo. it should close the cargo automatically, stop pinging the database for information on each and every damn item on grid with you (seriously) and then smoothly get into the new ship.
The game as it stands now, going on a decade old, is much more complex than it once was. The Unified Inventory is a way of flattening this information (as a dude who works with databases, I know what kind of performance benefits this can have) which in theory, should improve the experience.
The problem as I see it, is the Unified Inventory is too broad. It is trying to gather too much information around the player in space, display it in a flat format, and this then loads too much data into the program at once. Every item has a massive list of attributes, and the UI seems to want to put all of that at your fingertips for EVERYTHING all at once. Nice, in theory, but somewhere it is breaking down and the game chokes on this flood of information.
The devs and programmers, meanwhile, have to put up with presumably adult men acting like three year old girls who've had their ponies taken away for cleaning. Grow up, or actually unsub before telling us you will. Which you won't - misery loves company, and all the whiners are pretty bloody miserable.
Perhaps you should inform Tippia et al that they should have informed CCP of the issues with the inventory system before it was released. You want fries with that? |
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
67
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Posted - 2012.06.05 09:31:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote: We honestly thought we were ready.
Pretty frightening statement, especially as a lot of the fixes you have been working on have been performance related.
How did your internal testing miss so many noticeable performance issues and what steps be taken to prevent this happening again? Fear God and Thread Nought |
Disdaine
379
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Posted - 2012.06.05 09:45:00 -
[110] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote: More broadly, you whiners need to grow up and deal with it as adults.
The fact you are having a suboptimal experience is as much down to you
It didn't break the game except for hardcore industrialists
The issues which really matter here are the freezes, the disconnects, the hanging and the load times
somewhere it is breaking down and the game chokes on this flood of information.
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Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids Pleasure Syndicate
260
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:33:00 -
[111] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Hey, sorry we've been hogging up all your time trying to get you to fix something we didn't want released yet. I'm sure most people would have been fine waiting until the next main release for this instead of the half-assed version we've been dealing with.
Lol |
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids Pleasure Syndicate
260
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:36:00 -
[112] - Quote
Jackie Fisher wrote:CCP Explorer wrote: We honestly thought we were ready. Pretty frightening statement, especially as a lot of the fixes you have been working on have been performance related. How did your internal testing miss so many noticeable performance issues and what steps will be taken to prevent this happening again?
Sounds like some dude came and said.. you know what the UI for CATIA (software used for industrial design such as for Boeing airplanes, automotive industry, ships and other heavy duty stuff) is too complicated. I'm gonna rewrite it real quick now, a couple months and make it real simple. There you go, 1 window does everything. You can place boxes and rotate and move them. What else do you need? Then he tests some stuff locally and its all "good". The coder has no even fn remote clue obviously what the software really does and how its used. He is not a power user and 99.99% of users are super power users. It's not a freaking Paint for windows duh. Then it's unleashed on tens of thousands of people who know 10000000x more about the software than the programmer who did the UI work. End result? FUBAR BUNDY. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
111
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:42:00 -
[113] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:This is not the reason. We honestly thought we were ready.
Please explain to me how you thought you were ready considering the amount of negative feedback this inventory received from SiSi? Did everyone that posted feedback waste their time, because it certainly looks that way to a lot of people on here.
Also with regards to you needing to get back on track with your scheduled releases, i presume this is in the hope that you can gain a few new subs to cover the ones that have left/are leaving through this latest debacle.
IMO your priorities are completely wrong. You should be trying to keep yiour existing customer base before trying to attract new ones. |
Kern Hotha
13
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:43:00 -
[114] - Quote
The CCP developers who have worked on the inventory have shown remarkable patience in dealing with their whining customers. I may not understand why you chose this part of the UI to change on a whim but I think I'm used to it now, and I definitely appreciate how much time you've spent reading the complaints and making changes. Middle age is when your broad mind and narrow waist begin to change places. -E. Joseph Cossman |
zerokmatrix
Federation Mission Acedemy
2
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:45:00 -
[115] - Quote
Dear CCP,
I fully realise that this thread is already 6 pages long and based on past observations it will no doubt have already stopped being read by you and the chance of any more dev replies here is down to a fraction of 1 percent. But i will post my post anyway and then cross my fingers that someone in Iceland reads it.
Wrecks, Cargo Containers (that do not belong to me or my corp), Mission Containers (e.g. The damaged Heron in World Collide), Radar and Magnetometric site containers.
These are things that DO NOT belong to me so why are they opening in MY inventory?
When salvaging or exploring I do not want or need the whole inventory to open every single time I try to loot a wreck or container no matter how much you speed it up from it's current asmatic snail speed (seriously the whole client should not come to a complete stop when you open a wreck!!!!)
Please, please, please, separate these items from MY inventory. You have turned these things that I loved doing into something that makes me want to put my fist through the screen.
I am now crossing my fingers in the hope that this is read and acted upon.
Regards zerokmatrix |
profundus fossura
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:50:00 -
[116] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Trinkets friend wrote: More broadly, you whiners need to grow up and deal with it as adults.
The fact you are having a suboptimal experience is as much down to you
It didn't break the game except for hardcore industrialists
The issues which really matter here are the freezes, the disconnects, the hanging and the load times
somewhere it is breaking down and the game chokes on this flood of information.
I'm a pretty hardcore industrialist and I prefer the new UI for manufacturing and invention I find it makes finding and sorting materials a lot easier and now I have got used to flying an orca for mining with the new system I am using a lot less screen space and am able to move ore around,access hangers and ship bay just as easily, the load time is a bit of a pain and glad to hear that is being worked on.
most of the frustration I have experienced has been changing the habits I got into over the last 3-4 years - but I am adult enough to be able to recognize and deal with that.
Ok there are a few improvements to be made e.g. when salvaging etc but I understand this is a fairly major change to decade old code and some teething problems are to be expected - and the bugs are getting fixed pretty fast. |
Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:54:00 -
[117] - Quote
Obviously CCP has done as much as they can to "Fix" inventory in as short a period as possible. Too bad some issues labeled as fixed weren't fixed the level CCP project members desired. BUt then I think they are going farther than CCP as a whole should.
It is time for CCP to move back to more normal release schedule. Its time for everyone to recognize that fixing some UI issues needs to be given a long time on the back burner. Allow for sanity in design, coding and priorities rather than panic mode.
In the mean time CCP needs to consider telling people that some issues WON'T Be fixed because they are too fundamental and the time spent wouldn't improve the game enough to be worth while.
Real PVP players only need inventories big enough to fit and hold their current ships. If your inventory was that reasonable size,performance would be just fine. That is what CPC tested against and they succeeded beautifully. All you other whiners are asking for stuff the game really doesn't need to support. Choose industry and mining and you simply should pay the devil's price a carebear should expect when abusing the game that way.
*** In fact I suggest CCP tell industrialists that the UI was an intentional NERF just like ship nerfs. A slow UI in fact does reflect a more realistic industrial process. Frankly all production except ammo should probably be slowed further. Ships losses should be meaningful not back in a hour with the same ship fit. Maybe the new UI can discourage so many players from doing Industry and mining -- so that losses can finally outpace production and bring forward the exciting possibility of actually winning EVE (last corp standing).
* A slow and unreliable UI also stops unrealistic feats like haulers snatching ore from flipped cans jsut as they instawarp or ninja bystanders in hi sec snatching loot from honest gankers and instawarping away with the profits. ***
Basically if you need a fast reliable inventory -- you aren't doing enough PVP and playing EVE the way it should be played. |
Tispar
Lonestar Distribution Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
2
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:54:00 -
[118] - Quote
Feature restoration request: On the Ships and Items hangar tab in station, there used to be the number of items present in each hangar listed between parenthesis, example "Ships (7)" or "Items (321)". This was also present on containers. Can that number be restored? It's a great visual indicator of 1. how much stuff I have in a certain location, 2. If stacking is taking place, and 3.when I hit the 1000 items per container limit.
If this could be added to the Index tree per ship/hangar/container without having too much of a performance impact that would be nice too.
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zerokmatrix
Federation Mission Acedemy
3
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Posted - 2012.06.05 12:07:00 -
[119] - Quote
Tispar wrote:Feature restoration request: On the Ships and Items hangar tab in station, there used to be the number of items present in each hangar listed between parenthesis, example "Ships (7)" or "Items (321)". This was also present on containers. Can that number be restored? It's a great visual indicator of 1. how much stuff I have in a certain location, 2. If stacking is taking place, and 3.when I hit the 1000 items per container limit.
If this could be added to the Index tree per ship/hangar/container without having too much of a performance impact that would be nice too.
This |
Logicycle
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
44
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Posted - 2012.06.05 12:10:00 -
[120] - Quote
I have high hopes for June 19 |
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