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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2009.11.18 18:53:00 -
[151]
Just checked to make sure on test server,
the infrastructure hubs are 750 000 m3... HOW is a small alliance supposed to get that to it's destination... a small alliance won't have the manpower or logistics needed that the large already established ones do. If the size was reduced so that it could fit in an orca that would make it MUCH better for someone like us (it can SS and cloak when hostiles get to close). Because a freighter moving through 0.0 WILL be hunted by pretty much everyone and face it.. none of the current holders are gonna want anyone else into 0.0 with exception of people joining their blob.. sorry alliance, the most usual response you get when approaching any of the current holders is ''go back to grinding missions and ganking noobs, nub''... i highly doubt that will change.. err off topic...
point is: how is a smaller entity which wants to(and which you (ccp) wants into 0.0) supposed to be able to do a freighter run and live, especially if it is deeper into 0.0! We want to, but how we are going to get the freighter in (and pref out) alive is to me a mystery... even with nap's/blue's.
it's not like we can just get a titan to bridge it in... -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
Arronicus
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 18:55:00 -
[152]
How to ensure that CCP reads your post, takes it seriously, and considers you a productive member of the community,
Step 1:
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: RedClaws Edited by: RedClaws on 18/11/2009 15:02:56 Nice, improvements have been made since the last time.
Can we get some numbers on the new cost of outpost upgrades please?
Finding an empty anomoly might be a pain with a lot of people in the same system, is there any way to know or communicate reliably which are taken?
Edit: I noticed there was no mention of the anomolies being better once you upgrade , just more of them , is that still in?
The anomalies available increase in quality with the upgrades. So at level five, you will have more and better anomalies available. There are some low level ones in there as well that can be done by relatively young players, so the benefits aren't restricted to older players.
Are you ****ing kidding or something you stupid idiot. Soffer i know you aren't this stupid shut the hell up. CA ****ing suck. Every single rat in a CA is worse then a belt rat, they have ****ty salvage, they have ****ty payout, they are instance and you can end up finding another person in one. CA ****ing suck as a mechanic and unless you are going to instance them the way missions are level 4 missions will always beat them in isk/time so fix it already.
Step 2: Proceed to get drunk, break your neighbours windows, beat your kids, and then cry and swear some more. That will help about as much as step 1.
Your post Aprudena, fails to take into account some real facts. There are rats in ccosmic anomalies with almost 1mil isk bounties. That IS far better than alot of asteroid rats that you get, considering the fact that the are all in one place, and you dont have to bounce around. Also, consider the fact that the loot is almost always crap as is the salvage, aside from the commanders. This means that you can take a smaller ship with little cargo, and not have to worry about looting or salvaging to make maximum isk per hour. Then take into account that there are belts with no rats in them. If you actually UNDERSTOOD the anomaly system, perhaps we wouldnt have such ignorant posts clogging the forums.
Now if only we can get nozg off the motherships and get a dev who listens to fix them, please.
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Gramtar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:00:00 -
[153]
1. Any reason CCP can't just upgrade all outpost systems on Sisi to Military Level V so we can practically test your assertions? That would seem to be the easiest way to settle valid questions about the value of Cosmic Anomalies.
2. Also, why not do level V Industrial Upgrades as well, so mining and other aspects can be evaluated and informed feedback generated?
3. In regards to the following:
Quote: Entrapment
These are chance-based on signatures to gain access to DED complexes. Every level of upgrade increases your chances of finding both a signature and a higher level DED complex. Upon completion of running the site, there is the possibility of finding another one (no waiting until next downtime).
Quantum Flux Generator
This one is simple and every level increases your percentage chances to discover a wormhole in the system.
Why can't you tell us exactly how the mechanic works? What is the % increase, over what period of time?
When I see features like this in any MMO, things that can't be parsed and proven one way or another, I become very suspicious. How would anyone know whether this type of upgrade was working or not?
4. In regards to reinforcement timers:
Quote: Changed the reinforcement variance timers on Outposts and Infrastructure Hubs from four hours to two hours
So the total range of variance goes from 8 hours (+/- 4 hours) to 4 hours (+/- 2 hours). Fair enough. The 8 hour range seemed too large for my taste, so good job. This brings up a question, though, about how these reinforcement timers exactly work. I've read everything I could find about them, but have some questions:
a) Is any fuel required to set the reinforcement timer on an outpost/i-hub, e.g. stront? b) If no fuel, is the timer set in # of hours, or simply by selecting a the specific time you want them to exit? Big distinction, as you may want to vary the former on different days/times of the week, and the latter you'd probably never adjust. Also, under the former, "kiting" is possible, and a waste of time under the latter. c) Who can set reinforcement timers? Is it a new role, or tied to Starbase Management? d) Where does a character have to be to set/adjust a reinforcement timer? Within 2500m of an I-Hub? Docked in an outpost/conquerable station? Can I adjust all timers everywhere from the comfort of a cloaked ship in space? e) Can reinforcement timers be modified once an outpost/hub is under attack?
5. Some questions about SBUs that remain unanswered: a) What roles, if any, are required to anchor/online them? b) Is there a limit that can be dropped in a system per alliance or per gate? c) Is there a limit on the number of SBUs an alliance can deploy in a given day? d) If alliance A anchors an SBU, can someone in alliance B online it? If not, I can see these being deployed defensively to "block" gates from being assaulted and SBU's onlined.
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internaut
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:04:00 -
[154]
Edited by: internaut on 18/11/2009 19:04:59 Your post Aprudena, fails to take into account some real facts. There are rats in ccosmic anomalies with almost 1mil isk bounties. That IS far better than alot of asteroid rats that you get, considering the fact that the are all in one place, and you dont have to bounce around. Also, consider the fact that the loot is almost always crap as is the salvage, aside from the commanders. This means that you can take a smaller ship with little cargo, and not have to worry about looting or salvaging to make maximum isk per hour. Then take into account that there are belts with no rats in them.
There are only like 2 battleship belt rats in Delve that have a bounty of less than 1 million (Archons and one other I forget). Saying there exist rats with bounties that may be larger than the lowest belt rat bounty isn't really a good point to argue anomalies are better than belt ratting.
"Also consider the loot .. salvage is almost always crap" Wow what a bonus! Freed from the shackles of looting and salvaging! Surely this will improve my income.
"Belts with no rats in them" This is true, but there are also anomalies with players already in them, which you will have to leave and scan out another anomaly. This takes longer than simply warping to the next belt.
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Nightbird
SiN. Corp Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:08:00 -
[155]
My question concerns jump bridges and their associated costs:
Quote: TCU: 6m ISK / day Jump Bridge: 10m ISK / day Cyno Generators: 2m ISK / day Cyno Jammers: 20m ISK / day Capital Ship Assembly Arrays: 1m ISK / day
Modules like Jammers, Beacons and CSAA are things that are solo-system only. You live in a system, invest in the TCU, rat and mine the hell out of it, decide you want to drop an outpost egg, put up a beacon for your caps and a jammer to keep the bad guys out.
Bridges, on the other hand, are unique in that they require both an end point and a starting point... in order for one of these things to work, you need both a start point and an end point.... which essentially doubles all the associated costs.
You need to pay to claim 2 systems worth of Sov (2x TCUs) and then pay what is essentially TWICE for the single "bridge" connection.
Would it not make more sense to reduce by half the cost of the bridge, so that you're paying 10 mil for 2-system set, as opposed to 20mil per 2-system set.
I understand and agree with the idea of incremental costs of ownership, but at this price the bridge seems to be "double dipping".
Keep up the hard (and often thankless!) work.
Cheers, Nightbird
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Ezekialous
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:09:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Nairb Ecrep Edited by: Nairb Ecrep on 18/11/2009 17:55:09 I for one, just want to thank CCP for these updates. I think they've looked at the feedback and made some changes for the better.
I think most of the complaints now are more along the line that you would get, no matter the change. I can envision now 1 system sustaining multiple players, be it mining or NPCing.
Making the higher tier outpost upgrade changes was also excellent, and much needed.
Thanks again for listening CCP!
To the people freaking out:
These changes looks pretty good. Instead of freaking out about specific isk/hour ratios or inflation issues, let the changes happen and see where it takes us. If tweeks need to be made, they'll make them. They've listened thus far to feedback, so long as they keep it up, nothing to freak out about.
I know at times CCP isn't always excellent about fixing things, but they're doing it "right" now, so cut em a break.
I have to agree with this statment, Rome was not build in a day, and this isnt the last update we will see in eve. How about we let CCP do what they do best :) we are all forgetting that CCP have a bit more foresight in these matters.
I have said it before in other posts but I really want to thank CCP for all the effort they have put into this expansion. CCP does not have to keep providing new and exciting ways to play eve but they do and I for one thank you for the four years of enjoyment I have recieved and look forward to many more years of enjoyment. :)
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Valrandir
Elemental Mercury Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:10:00 -
[157]
Hi
This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware. |
Zhentor
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:11:00 -
[158]
Quote: Ore Prospecting Arrays
These are hidden asteroid belts and you get one site guaranteed for every level of upgrade to a maximum of five. These are not the typical hidden belts though. If you've ever been into wormhole space and seen some of the riches there, then you have an idea of what to expect. Within these hidden belts reside mythical beasts such as ęKing Arkonor' and many of his closest friends.
These sites will re-spawn every downtime, so even if you do not mine out every rock, there will be fresh ones waiting for you the next day.
Is there anything that will delay some of these sites from showing up during the course of the day, or are those of us in the US with euro alliance mates just S.O.L for mining in the near future? How much time would it take roughly to mine out a site with four or five hulks?
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Lolion Reglo
Demio's Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:11:00 -
[159]
Alright CCP... im sold for launch. Can't wait for december 1st to hit so i can start making isk...rofl. Now keep up the good work and DON"T STOP MAKING NULL SEC EVEN MORE JUICY THAN IT WILL BE. sounds like your dropped the ball before on the upgrades but im confident you will make it awesome.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:14:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 18/11/2009 19:15:07
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
It's a massive misconception that anomalies are not profitable. As said before, the top ones (which you'll have permanently available through the top tier upgrades) isk for isk match the most profitable missions, and certainly blow ratting out of the water.
Added to that, we're looking at more ways to improve on the planned content, hopefully building on the foundation we're laying now.
I've ran about 30 CA's over the years and every single of one them was about 1/3 as useful as running a level 4 mission and took about the same amount of time. They are useless pointless, unsafe ,****ty and totally random as to what you get out of them. If you understood just how ****ing bad they were compared to a mission you might care but your sitting up in your ivory tower now that you work for ccp. But hey its not like our opinion or practical experince make any difference you idiots are CCP makes all the decision like CCP Nohz and ****ing over ships are a wim just because you can.
Look at how stupid you are. Try actually reading the posts next time. These are not the random quality "30 anomalies you have run over the years".
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
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Gramtar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:17:00 -
[161]
BS belt rat bounties are roughly:
500K 650K 800K 950K 1.1M 1.25M 1.4M 1.55M 1.7M 1.85M
When ratting in good truesec (Delve), I clear every spawn with rats below 1.25M, and every spawn where the total is less than 3M (sometimes higher).
Ratting income is highly variable. "Pruning" spawns to get good values up can take 2-4 hours. What I consider to be "good" ratting income (bounties alone) is about 15M isk/hour. You can earn as little as 5-10M/hour just being unlucky in a perfect truesec system. The most I ever made was in a high belt count system with 10+ spawns up all worth in excess of 4M isk. In one hour, I made 42M isk in bounties. It took me about 5 hours of ratting to get the spawns to that point. I've never come close to that value before or since. 20M/hour bounties can be accomplished in perfect truesec, but with ratting mechanics the way they are now you have to "inherit" a pruned system from someone in an earlier timezone or get lucky.
I'm very skeptical about Cosmic Anomalies even approaching ratting income, given that the bounties per ship are about 1/2, they drop poor loot and aren't worth the time to salvage. That said, I'm willing to test them if CCP will put up the changes on Sisi - make all outposts/conquerable stations Military V, and let players go to town and test the hell out of it. No downside to doing that, unless the intention is to hide how horrible the upgrades are until this is live.
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Illectroculus Defined
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:17:00 -
[162]
Originally by: adriaans
the infrastructure hubs are 750 000 m3...
We should take bets on how many freighters get ganked in the first week of december.
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EvilweaselFinance
Weasel Enterprises Ltd GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:18:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Look at how stupid you are. Try actually reading the posts next time. These are not the random quality "30 anomalies you have run over the years".
read the thread moron this has been addressed
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orkorde
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:35:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Zardock Second and this is my game-breaker really, if everyone has a uber upgraded system to make tons of isk in, then what incentive is there to invade and take over other people's space?
I don't imagine the new rules will stop griefing for the sake of griefing. At the very least, if people have a good source of income, won't that just mean buying more ships for roams or defense)?
I assume there will still be strategic locations that people will fight over (possibly even new ones with the impact on jump bridge networks), old scores people want to settle, groups wanting to create a new home for themselves, etc. There will still be clusters of resource rich locations that are worth fighting over.
Even if the expansion does reduce the amount of sov wars - I wonder if we will see less NAPs, and more neighbours like Providence and AAA.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:42:00 -
[165]
This system sucks and everyone knows it.
All it's doing is replacing Pos's with other items, that take longer to kill.....
Wooooo lots of fun.
There is nothing allowing a small sized group to do anything against a hardened target without placing the equivalent of a large pos into their system announcing, "Hey over here, we just threw down this big ass thing and we totally can't defend it because you outnumber us 100:1"
Awesome job replacing a boring system, with a more complex boring system that still doesn't allow anyone without a 50+ man fleet to do jack against an opponent except blow up their ships. (Which is what we do anyway for fun)
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: Stareatthesun No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down.
Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S |
Retar Aveymone
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:45:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Megan Maynard This system sucks and everyone knows it.
All it's doing is replacing Pos's with other items, that take longer to kill.....
Wooooo lots of fun.
There is nothing allowing a small sized group to do anything against a hardened target without placing the equivalent of a large pos into their system announcing, "Hey over here, we just threw down this big ass thing and we totally can't defend it because you outnumber us 100:1"
Awesome job replacing a boring system, with a more complex boring system that still doesn't allow anyone without a 50+ man fleet to do jack against an opponent except blow up their ships. (Which is what we do anyway for fun)
did you really think that a group outnumbered 100 to one should be able to take sov? I mean seriously that's just absurd
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:45:00 -
[167]
Originally by: teji
Originally by: CCP Soundwave It's a massive misconception that anomalies are not profitable.
They most certainly aren't profitable on TQ. That is no misconception. It looks like you have changed them on SiSi so we'll see how you've done in making them actually competitive to other activities.
Quote: As said before, the top ones (which you'll have permanently available through the top tier upgrades) isk for isk match the most profitable missions, and certainly blow ratting out of the water.
Oh, ok so there still isn't any reason to not do level 4 missions in empire instead of grinding for standings which decay if you go on vacation for a few days. Imagine the outrage if your empire standings decayed if you didn't log on for a few days. That would be pretty funny.
Does the entire population of your core systems frequently go on vacations of at least 4 days?
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Hamish Nuwen
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:47:00 -
[168]
Originally by: CCP Abathur Upkeep Costs
TCU: 6m ISK / day Jump Bridge: 10m ISK / day Cyno Generators: 2m ISK / day Cyno Jammers: 20m ISK / day Capital Ship Assembly Arrays: 1m ISK / day
And the cost per day of Infrastructure Hub?
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:52:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Gramtar 5. Some questions about SBUs that remain unanswered: a) What roles, if any, are required to anchor/online them? b) Is there a limit that can be dropped in a system per alliance or per gate? c) Is there a limit on the number of SBUs an alliance can deploy in a given day? d) If alliance A anchors an SBU, can someone in alliance B online it? If not, I can see these being deployed defensively to "block" gates from being assaulted and SBU's onlined.
I get the answers from the test server and the feedback thread on the test server forums.
a) no idea b) one SBU per gate, that is the only limit c) no idea, but I don't think there is a limit d) everyone can online an offline SBU, that corp gets then ownership of that SBU
I have some questions about prices. Not the upkeep prices. But the prices to buy those TCU, IHubs and especially the SBU's. How much do they cost? Are they npc sold only or will there be blueprints so that players can build them?
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Ex Mudder
Gallente Oberon Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:55:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Nightbird My question concerns jump bridges and their associated costs:
Quote: TCU: 6m ISK / day Jump Bridge: 10m ISK / day Cyno Generators: 2m ISK / day Cyno Jammers: 20m ISK / day Capital Ship Assembly Arrays: 1m ISK / day
Modules like Jammers, Beacons and CSAA are things that are solo-system only. You live in a system, invest in the TCU, rat and mine the hell out of it, decide you want to drop an outpost egg, put up a beacon for your caps and a jammer to keep the bad guys out.
Bridges, on the other hand, are unique in that they require both an end point and a starting point... in order for one of these things to work, you need both a start point and an end point.... which essentially doubles all the associated costs.
You need to pay to claim 2 systems worth of Sov (2x TCUs) and then pay what is essentially TWICE for the single "bridge" connection.
Would it not make more sense to reduce by half the cost of the bridge, so that you're paying 10 mil for 2-system set, as opposed to 20mil per 2-system set.
I understand and agree with the idea of incremental costs of ownership, but at this price the bridge seems to be "double dipping".
Keep up the hard (and often thankless!) work.
Cheers, Nightbird
On a related question, has is been confirmed that capitals can no longer used Jump Bridges, or has that changed? I also take it that upgrades no longer require the presence of outposts?
300 Mil month (bridges) + 180 mil / month (Sov) + 300 mil / month (Fuel) + 600 mil / month (jammers) times at least 3 systems is a lot of Iskies if you can't get your caps in to protect yourself.
Less than 3 main systems and JBs become even less of a deal.
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Nobani
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:04:00 -
[171]
What is the advantage of claiming Sov in a system? I.e. what does the 6m/day buy you, without an iHub or other upgrade?
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:12:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Nobani What is the advantage of claiming Sov in a system? I.e. what does the 6m/day buy you, without an iHub or other upgrade?
good ole' 25% fuel savings and probably the service of receiving alliance mails if someone errects a tower *shrug* - putting the gist back into logistics |
something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:38:00 -
[173]
ehehe you sayd errect
but now : Dear CCP
What influence does True Sec have ?
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Mr Opinions
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:40:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Mr Opinions on 18/11/2009 20:42:03
Why do the military upgrades get instant respawns, while the industry ones have to wait 12 hours or until DT?
If people want to go nuts with mini-profession sites or mine the special ore belts 24/7, let them do that. Give them instant respawn like the military ones.
Also, does the Quantum Flux Generator do anything more than increase the WH chances? i.e. do you get a higher probability of the highest WH classes?
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Elassus Herron
Caldari Construction Cabal Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:53:00 -
[175]
Well, I have to say I'm quite happy with the changes/improvements you've made. Assuming an alliance took the time to make all the carebear upgrades (mining, professions, CAs, and all the NPC ones), even a mediocre system could support 20-40 pilots active (I'm totally making that number up out of thin air, but it seems roughly right). That works for me.
I do want to know, however (and it's already been asked): what benefit would an alliance receive from neuts or blues using these sites? Is there going to be some system of taxation implemented at the alliance/executive corp level? Otherwise, NRDS alliances (such as the one I support) have little incentive to invest in them.
And deploying upwards of 20 cloaky pilots to park in CAs seems a pretty ineffective use of their time vs. the potential damage they are doing by preventing respawns.
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Agent Known
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:56:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Mr Opinions Edited by: Mr Opinions on 18/11/2009 20:42:03
Why do the military upgrades get instant respawns, while the industry ones have to wait 12 hours or until DT?
If people want to go nuts with mini-profession sites or mine the special ore belts 24/7, let them do that. Give them instant respawn like the military ones.
Also, does the Quantum Flux Generator do anything more than increase the WH chances? i.e. do you get a higher probability of the highest WH classes?
They probably restricted the respawn time of hidden belts because it would crash the mineral market in short order. The prices are based on how difficult it is to find these minerals; if you remove the rarity, all the prices will drop. At least, that's what the economical impact will be. The absolute floor is insurance, but there's no saying what would happen after that.
As far as I know, only the wormhole chance is increased while the actual class of the wormhole remains random and based on where it's found (don't 0.0 WHs lead to class 3 and up anyway?). On another note, I also have an annoying sig.
inaftertimeflux |
Nairb Ecrep
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Posted - 2009.11.18 21:00:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Elassus Herron Well, I have to say I'm quite happy with the changes/improvements you've made. Assuming an alliance took the time to make all the carebear upgrades (mining, professions, CAs, and all the NPC ones), even a mediocre system could support 20-40 pilots active (I'm totally making that number up out of thin air, but it seems roughly right). That works for me.
I do want to know, however (and it's already been asked): what benefit would an alliance receive from neuts or blues using these sites? Is there going to be some system of taxation implemented at the alliance/executive corp level? Otherwise, NRDS alliances (such as the one I support) have little incentive to invest in them.
And deploying upwards of 20 cloaky pilots to park in CAs seems a pretty ineffective use of their time vs. the potential damage they are doing by preventing respawns.
I'm very curious about this as well. I'd be interested to see what people think of a "system tax" where the corp that owns the system has the ability to levy taxes. I discussed it at the bottom of page 5. It could be good stuff, and could help alliances replace the isk lost from moons. It would also allows people like CVA to operate, who admittedly would be shafted otherwise.
Also not to be corny, but by taxing people in their system, it would truly give people "Dominion" over their space.
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Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.18 21:00:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Mr Opinions Also, does the Quantum Flux Generator do anything more than increase the WH chances? i.e. do you get a higher probability of the highest WH classes?
as well as whatever determines wether its a Kspace to Kspace WH or a 0.0 to High sec WH ?
has the hub got a price per day ?
will the profession site magnet thingy also increase the likely hood or a Ladar site or is it limited to mag/radar ? also have the sites been improved as scanning for a site and finding 1x unit of TII salvage and some crappy normal salvage is beyond lame.
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Needa3
Minmatar BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2009.11.18 21:03:00 -
[179]
So are these issues staying in the game or is CCP NOZH (aka CCP i-don't-know-the-game)going to mess the whole thing up again?
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Nobani
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.18 21:05:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Agent Known They probably restricted the respawn time of hidden belts because it would crash the mineral market in short order.
Mineral costs are pretty close to the insurance floor right now. For example, Hurricanes give 25.5M in insurance net, lowest hull cost is at 26.8M according to eve-central. Thrasher gives 525k insurance net, lowest hull cost is at 606k.
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