That's my gimmick. :argh:

because you have the luxury of ensuring that any wormhole with bad people on the other side is closed right up

You know there's something fundamentally wrong when the only way people can think of to promote the "best" part of the game is to make everything else suck more.

Worm Hole space. According to Dr. E - 5.6% of the population was in wormholes the last time they took a snapshot. That number will keep going up for awhile (plenty of room left in WH's).

That 5.6% of the population *are* the kinds of people who might otherwise be in K-space 0.0, but aren't. They have *their* system, they defend them (or not) and they profit from whats there. The question you have to ask yourself is "Why are these players in WH's instead of in K-Space Null"?

That would be another good place to start.

because you have the luxury of ensuring that any wormhole with bad people on the other side is closed right up

In Eve I am almost exclusively a small gang/solo pvper, and have been for the past few years. I've noticed the traffic in null slowly reducing to a point where it is actually safer to be around null than highsec in many cases, which in my mind is not the way things should be. From a purely selfish point of view I would like to see this trend reverse and see null becoming as vibrant as it has been in days gone by so I've got stuff to shoot.

I explored why this has been happening a while ago, and it generated some really interesting ideas, so I'd like to revisit it. If nothing else it gives the players and CCP something to think about.

There are a few reasons that I can see for a reduction of traffic, mainly caused by a lack of migration of players into null:

- High barriers to entry for newer players/corps/alliances to move to null
- Not enough of a carrot to entice players away from highsec
- A lack of differentiated content in null vs. other areas of space.
- Current alliances entrenched in their space.
- Not enough reason for industrialists to be in null

So my question to the masses is this: What features could be introduced to reverse the trend, and increase the number of people wanting to come to null?

Before we get into the inevitable flame session that is General Discussion, I wanted to stress that I don't want this to be a "y u no pvp carebears" thread. There's enough of those already. Equally, for people who want to stay in highsec - that's fine too... nobody's forcing you to leave!

Sure, you can also "chain roll holes" to find pvp, empty null-sec to go rat/anom in and since WH's are mass/time limited it restricts the kinds of things you can do.

Also don't have to worry about titans or hotdrops, and if you *do* get surprise *********'d, you know that either someone has done their homework and seeded your WH over a period of time (with combat ships) and you haven't seen it (not too many WH corps have 23.5/7 coverage) OR there is a limited amount of tonnage coming through to you. You can then decide to tactically collapse the wormhole on your enemies (stranding one of your guys on the far side to trap the enemy in with you if you have to) and then race to see who can locate and control the next entrance - defenders or attackers.

Gaining and maintaining "hole control" is another level of strategic thinking when engaging...

Also!

You don't have to worry that your neighbor has 50,000 neighbors - usually fights are (admittedly) much smaller than 0.0 fleet battles - most people end up holding one "WH" system. But to imply (as others have, i.e. "Seleene" and the pants-on-head stupid WH Stabilizer) that these "home" systems are impregnable is wrong. You have to want the fight, you have to spend time staging your forces (in our case we spent three *MONTHS* getting assets in a WH we were going to invade) then you spring your trap. All while not getting spotted/ganked/locked out.

Bonus points for poding your enemies out of the WH after you pop their ships.

Another reason people are in WH's instead of 0.0 - in WH's a small group *can* make their own way. They can create their own "story" - WH's aren't all claimed. And even with claimed WH's - because the routes in and out are *not* static - you can't always lock people out of your 'hole...

As was stated earlier in this thread - Null sec Stations should give benefits to null-sec industry, should have (MORE THAN) enough slots so that "Industry in Deklin doesn't have to be dedicated to only making fuel blocks for the Crucible release", more research/invention and refining bonus'/slots than Hi-sec. (That is also pants on head silly that Null doesn't). Also (imho - and as I've said before) Null industry/refining/invention all should be able to be done at higher % of profit/margin than in Hi-sec (RP it as "we don't need no stinking OSHA in Null-sec).

Still and all - I still don't think Null Sec alliances have done enough to combat the damage wrought in their name by those who have shiptoasted over the years, giving null-sec'ers a bad reputation to just about everyone else. Most of the time it seems like giving bad information/trolling/insulting isn't just tolerated by Null residents, it's actively encouraged...

This thread (for the most part) being somewhat free of that.

I advise you to realize that this type of activity is not limited to JUST ONE PERSON. Love how you guys go on and on about, "Damn those carebears thinking this is a solo game when it is a multi-player game! MAKE FRIENDS!!!" Then shout that moon probing entire areas HAS to be done by one guy.

Please explain.

None of you want to have a crack at this?

None of you want to have a crack at this?

I advise you to realize that this type of activity is not limited to JUST ONE PERSON. Love how you guys go on and on about, "Damn those carebears thinking this is a solo game when it is a multi-player game! MAKE FRIENDS!!!" Then shout that moon probing entire areas HAS to be done by one guy.

Please explain.

Firstly you have to scan all the moons again.

Then, if you want a certain moon in someone elses territory, you have to fight them out.

Once (if) you beat them, then you have to move all your infrastructure.

Then you have to start mining & shifting resources.

By the time you're at that last step, it's almost time for another reshuffle. Therefore, there will be little to no gain from capturing the moon, meaning the entire war was more costly than it's worth, meaning alliances will not see any profit in taking moons.

So I take it you're really interested in trying to promote what can only be the worst solution to the "tech problem" imaginable, then. Very well.

First of all, you're going to have to have a certain set of people for the job. It's going to be boring as ****, so chances are once you're beyond a certain size people are going to expect some form for compensation or they'll just go do other things which'll actually pay them directly. Then you have to wait for them to scan all over the place, because it's timeconsuming as ****. Then the POS guys have to run around and take down old POSes and put up new POSes and setup all the mining chains etc. This'll be something which would become more or less a constant activity if you're trying to maintain even a moderate size empire, unless you're going to say that moons deplete every 30/60 days on the dot.

And regardless of all this having to be in place, there'll be quite a lot of downtime on the moons, which means that if you thought T2 prices were expensive before, heh.

But hey, let's not let these minor quibbles stand in the way of a bad idea.

the best way to make nullsec more vibrant and fun:

more moon probing
more pos anchoring
more structure shooting

Like I mentioned above several times, you are assuming the entire process of moon probing, POS and moon mining mechanics would be IDENTICAL to what we have now.

I grow tired of pointing out that fact to you guys nonstop. It seems there is a great deal of you who actually want the entire mechanic when it comes to moons to stay the same as they are now. You shoot down any new ideas on changing with the current mechanics, which is silly.

Again, you guys are always basing the 'Oh god... /wrists!' on CCP keeping the current moon probing mechanic the same.

Not that I see an issue with this, but again, you are assuming the current POS mechanics, including the way you deploy one, would be the same as they are.

I grow tired of pointing out that fact to you guys nonstop. It seems there is a great deal of you who actually want the entire mechanic when it comes to moons to stay the same as they are now. You shoot down any new ideas on changing with the current mechanics, which is silly.

I'm just going to direct you to the post above. I find it amusing that you site low pay for those doing the moon mining, yet higher T2 prices. I think they need to pod the middle man in that equation.

If moons can be scanned like planets, and if the POS changes make dropping and running POS's easier, and if the monthly scanning/fighting/pos-setup is worth the decreased moon income (you have to figure in down time between goo migration)...

That is a whole lot of if's with no concrete ideas. It sounds like a lot of trouble and extra expense for a decrease in moon goo production.

Really a new coat of paint would jazz up the place a little and add re-sale value. Maybe a small extension off the kitchen.

Wears bitter goggles. Glass is always half empty. Is Lord Zim.

Wears bitter goggles. Glass is always half empty. Is Lord Zim.

I understand that. I think there should be more than just one way to get an idea for what is on a moon. I also think that the output should not be 100% of one material. What if (this of course goes into another mechanic) a station could mine, with enough upgrades, could mine all the moons on the same planet it sits in orbit. Also what if a POS was the best way to mine the most moon goo, but there is other ways, like the station. Also down to small time moon mining, like PI (I hate saying PI, because it is terrible, but I mean in the scale of what comes from PI).

It really should have several levels of effort:reward. Also why not splash in some of that 'farm and field' stuff that everyone is wanting. Interdict those moon goo transports that go from (insert whatever structure v0v) the station has out grabbing goo from the moons at the planet.

I guess the way I envision all of this stuff is basically not building off current mechanics (specifically crappy/boring) ones we deal with now. Think of the end product in how you think it would be fun and engaging and then ask yourself; how do we get here while avoiding the same pitfalls we have now?

Him and his stupid facts, eh?

Him and his stupid facts, eh?

His facts are the equivalent guessing a number, before I even decide which one it is.

Let me ask this question then; do you guys want small changes in null in an attempt to make it vibrant or are you open to big changes?

I think we don't want highsec publords dictating what sorts of changes would be good or bad for nullsec.