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[Proposal] Lowsec needs some ccp love too...

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Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.10 18:45:00 - [1] Edited by: Rico Minali on 10/01/2010 18:45:51 Lowsec needs some serious attention to make it the great place it should be... And im not talking about FW, which is pretty much unrelated to 'real' lowsec. Lowsec is about criminals, its about piracy, its about the dark underworld of new eden. I think its about time it had some deserved attention. It would take a lowdec patch to really turn it into the place it should be, I suggest ccp do just that, the update should be called 'Outlaw'. I have the following proposals for this, and by no means are these all my ideas, so thanks to all the people who have dput ideas around before... 1: Criminal underworld, similar to 0.0 sov, recognition should be given to the 'overlords' who dominate systems, some sort of benefits may be 'bought' with underhand payments to authorities, such as sentry guns dont shoot this alliance/corp. 2: Criminal Faction agents for missions. 3: The BlackMarket, have a market that can ONLY be accessed when in lowsec, and with items that can ONLY be sold on the black market. All 'illegal' items moved onto this market. Maybe with npc smuggling items too. see also 4. 4: Pirate faction ships and items become illegal in hisec, after all im sure if concord saw a nightmare missioning in Auvergne theyd be worried... 5: Make better smuggling oportunities, with these illegal items, make a smuggling proffesion more viable. 6: crooked cops, have random faction npcs for that region wander lowsec, looking for payoffs.. hand over a little isk to go free, or fight them..Maybe the overlord can see to it that these crooked cops dont interfere with their people... 7: Have lowsec borders between all the empires, or at least the empires who are at war, so there is no 'safe' route for people, this way people would actually hire escort personel to protect haulers, another career opportunity. Smugglers would also be employed in such places... Alot of people ar esaying how there arnt enough people coming to lowsec, but people need to have a reason to go there. Im not interested in getting more carebears to wander in to get ganked (yes im a pirate, but i prefer a fight), what id like to see is more organisations fighting for turf. Gang wars, pirate factions fighting each other, or real opportunities for anti pirates to go in and wage war against their ahted enemies. We need a deeper immersion for lowsec, bring it on please, make lowsec the dark and dangerous underbelly that society loves to hate... Lowsec shouldnt be a dangerous version of hisec, just as 0.0 isnt a no concord version of hisec. It should be a seperate experience in itself... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2010.01.10 18:51:00 - [2] Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 10/01/2010 18:51:19 Some interesting ideas. The one that all empires should be connected by lo-sec only i wonder how that would end up. EVE would become larger again, and hi-sec diversified.
Krist Valentine Amarr Lunar Swords	Posted - 2010.01.10 19:38:00 - [3] bump for some good ideas
Fon Revedhort Monks of War DarkSide.	Posted - 2010.01.10 19:52:00 - [4] Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 10/01/2010 19:52:09 Some questionable ideas, but overall it's the right direction to go. I'll add something, too: n+1: make some ore available only via low-sec belt mining Why should those bottlenecks exist only at the moon mining level? n+2: set the local chat in the delayed mode. Come on, that's gonna be cool. ---[center] Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.01.10 20:05:00 - [5] Originally by: Rico Minali TL, DR: make pirating easier Low sec problem is that pirating is easy. It is extremely easy to find targets (if they are there) and kill them if they aren't there searching for a fight. So most people that is not interested in pirating spend as little time as possible in low sec. So making pirating even easier will not help you. It will simply push even more people away from low sec.
Stil Harkonnen	Posted - 2010.01.10 20:08:00 - [6] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Rico Minali TL, DR: make pirating easier Low sec problem is that pirating is easy. It is extremely easy to find targets (if they are there) and kill them if they aren't there searching for a fight. So most people that is not interested in pirating spend as little time as possible in low sec. So making pirating even easier will not help you. It will simply push even more people away from low sec. the problem is that pirating is easy, so if you go into lowsec without proper protection or fleet, you WILL die. However, nobody even goes to lowsec unless they're stupid or looking for a fight because everything in high sec and 0.0 is safer and more profitable. bump for a lowsec boost
Empire Dweller Pator Tech School	Posted - 2010.01.10 20:11:00 - [7] Originally by: Rico Minali Lowsec needs some serious attention to make it the great place it should be... And im not talking about FW, which is pretty much unrelated to 'real' lowsec. Because "real" lowsec consists of smartbombing a gate for hours on end. Originally by: Rico Minali Lowsec is about criminals, its about piracy, its about the dark underworld of new eden. I think its about time it had some deserved attention. It would take a lowdec patch to really turn it into the place it should be, I suggest ccp do just that, the update should be called 'Outlaw'. I have the following proposals for this, and by no means are these all my ideas, so thanks to all the people who have dput ideas around before... No lowsec is mostly about some failure smartbombing a gate for hours on end. Originally by: Rico Minali 1: Criminal underworld, similar to 0.0 sov, recognition should be given to the 'overlords' who dominate systems, some sort of benefits may be 'bought' with underhand payments to authorities, such as sentry guns dont shoot this alliance/corp. Who knew- i actually like this idea. Maybe if you rent an office in a lowsec system you have an option to pay a monthly bribe to avoid gate guns. Originally by: Rico Minali 2: Criminal Faction agents for missions. This already exists sort of- sure sprinkle a few more agents around lowsec. Originally by: Rico Minali 3: The BlackMarket, have a market that can ONLY be accessed when in lowsec, and with items that can ONLY be sold on the black market. All 'illegal' items moved onto this market. Maybe with npc smuggling items too. see also 4. Lame and impractical. Most illegal items either have no use whatsoever or are hardly used (ie boosters) Originally by: Rico Minali 4: Pirate faction ships and items become illegal in hisec, after all im sure if concord saw a nightmare missioning in Auvergne theyd be worried... Not only lame but incredible stupid- unless your goal is to crash the pirate ship market completely. Originally by: Rico Minali 5: Make better smuggling oportunities, with these illegal items, make a smuggling proffesion more viable. Items that are only made by npc's and only bought by npcs are lame. As for smuggling- its already in game. Just try to fly a fat load out of jita- but cross your fingers. Originally by: Rico Minali 6: crooked cops, have random faction npcs for that region wander lowsec, looking for payoffs.. hand over a little isk to go free, or fight them..Maybe the overlord can see to it that these crooked cops dont interfere with their people... Perhaps we could call them rats- and put them in belts. Hmm belt rats. Originally by: Rico Minali 7: Have lowsec borders between all the empires, or at least the empires who are at war, so there is no 'safe' route for people, this way people would actually hire escort personel to protect haulers, another career opportunity. Smugglers would also be employed in such places... This idea has been proposed over and over and over...basically what it amounts to is the guys gate hes smartbombing isnt getting enough traffic and could ccp do something to make ppl stand in line to be killed. Originally by: Rico Minali Alot of people ar esaying how there arnt enough people coming to lowsec, but people need to have a reason to go there. Im not interested in getting more carebears to wander in to get ganked (yes im a pirate, but i prefer a fight), what id like to see is more organisations fighting for turf. Gang wars, pirate factions fighting each other, or real opportunities for anti pirates to go in and wage war against their ahted enemies. Low sec isnt "terf"- its a wasteland. If i wanted terf id go to nullsec. If i wanted relative safty id go to hi sec. If im bored and want to see ppl smartbombing gates i go to lowsec. Originally by: Rico Minali We need a deeper immersion for lowsec, bring it on please, make lowsec the dark and dangerous underbelly that society loves to hate... Lowsec shouldnt be a dangerous version of hisec, just as 0.0 isnt a no concord version of hisec. It should be a seperate experience in itself... Why exactly are we comparing everything to hi sec?
Bunyip Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.01.10 20:44:00 - [8] Originally by: Rico Minali 1: Criminal underworld, similar to 0.0 sov, recognition should be given to the 'overlords' who dominate systems, some sort of benefits may be 'bought' with underhand payments to authorities, such as sentry guns dont shoot this alliance/corp. I could see this, as it would give an ISK sink to compensate for the increased rewards with item number 2. However, the main reason there aren't as many targets in low-sec is due to the reputation, so only systems of 0.3 or below should have this advantage (to allow players to experience a bit of low-security space without being totally safe). Originally by: Rico Minali 2: Criminal Faction agents for missions. I agree with this one. Since Concord isn't there, the pirate organizations would flourish. We could have NPC 0.0 space be devoted to semi-empire groups (ORE, Mordus, Thukker, etc), and low-sec split up into criminal organizations. That's not to say that 0.0 won't have any pirate organizations, as there will always be scouting and resource harvesting groups in 0.0. Originally by: Rico Minali 3: The BlackMarket, have a market that can ONLY be accessed when in lowsec, and with items that can ONLY be sold on the black market. All 'illegal' items moved onto this market. Maybe with npc smuggling items too. see also 4. Makes sense. This is where boosters and such items could be sold, and maybe other new low-sec only items ('overloaded' mining crystals, etc). Originally by: Rico Minali 4: Pirate faction ships and items become illegal in hisec, after all im sure if concord saw a nightmare missioning in Auvergne theyd be worried... This one I can agree with under one stipulation: that people would be able to pay a premium to fly them. Basically, take out part of the mission reward to compensate for each mission. Otherwise, nobody would want to risk their precious ships, and we'd see them become less powerful than the US congress. Originally by: Rico Minali 5: Make better smuggling opportunities, with these illegal items, make a smuggling profession more viable. I would like to see smuggling become a new profession in this game, and this would be a good way to do it. It would take a fair amount of coding to do though, and new skills would have to be introduced to compensate (such as EFT already lists). Originally by: Rico Minali 6: crooked cops, have random faction npcs for that region wander lowsec, looking for payoffs.. hand over a little isk to go free, or fight them..Maybe the overlord can see to it that these crooked cops dont interfere with their people... I'm kinda on the fence about this one. It would allow people to fight opposed factions, creating a sort-of anti-pirate belt rat with special mechanics, but it wouldn't be essential to the core mechanics overhaul. Sounds reasonable if the time permits tho. Originally by: Rico Minali 7: Have lowsec borders between all the empires, or at least the empires who are at war, so there is no 'safe' route for people, this way people would actually hire escort personnel to protect haulers, another career opportunity. Smugglers would also be employed in such places... This one I'm against. If you want this low-sec region to be a criminal's dream, don't force it upon the high-security dwellers. You might consider creating a bypass (a special gate mechanic that would allow the ships instant passage across the low-sec region for a price). This way, NPC goods from warring factions would cost more, but you wouldn't have the forced risk of transportation and lack of trust which pervades player interactions in this game. Overall, your ideas are pretty refreshing, similar to the recent Las Vegas conference CCP had. The main thing that needs to change is the rewards ratio in low-security space, as it currently doesn't pay enough to be in low-sec. Tentatively supported. "May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table.
Xtover Suicide Kings	Posted - 2010.01.10 23:25:00 - [9] Originally by: Rico Minali 1: Criminal underworld, similar to 0.0 sov, recognition should be given to the 'overlords' who dominate systems, some sort of benefits may be 'bought' with underhand payments to authorities, such as sentry guns dont shoot this alliance/corp. Maybe, although this needs to go hand in hand with updated station-hugging mechanics. I can see that having no sentries may be beneficial but may become too much of an advantage for the "overlords." In addition there would need to have a huge mechanic included which would involve pretty much an entire expansion. Quote: 2: Criminal Faction agents for missions. Yes, there should be pirate agents in lowsec, lvl 1-4 and more of those inty ones. In addition, level 4 agents over quality 6 or so should be placed in lowsec. Possibly even over Q0 Quote: 3: The BlackMarket, have a market that can ONLY be accessed when in lowsec, and with items that can ONLY be sold on the black market. All 'illegal' items moved onto this market. Maybe with npc smuggling items too. see also 4. Yep I suggested this one in C&P . boosters, implants, hardwires, pirate faction ammunition and modules... all should be in lowsec only. Quote: 4: Pirate faction ships and items become illegal in hisec, after all im sure if concord saw a nightmare missioning in Auvergne theyd be worried... This might be going too far, although the SALE of those ships should be illegal. Quote: 5: Make better smuggling oportunities, with these illegal items, make a smuggling proffesion more viable. yep Quote: 6: crooked cops, have random faction npcs for that region wander lowsec, looking for payoffs.. hand over a little isk to go free, or fight them..Maybe the overlord can see to it that these crooked cops dont interfere with their people... NPC pirates that interact? It'd be too much. There are plenty of Prats to go around that ransom. What's needed is a ransom icon on the "selected item" window. When pressed against a target, the other player has some sort of notification (not an intrusive chat window) but maybe some kind of blinking dialogue box. If the victim pays the ransom, the pirate loses its lock for 3-5 seconds or so. This could also be LOGGED and placed for a true ransom board. It would also make honoring ransoms more of a probability, without forcing pirates to actually ransom. Quote: 7: Have lowsec borders between all the empires, or at least the empires who are at war, so there is no 'safe' route for people, this way people would actually hire escort personel to protect haulers, another career opportunity. Smugglers would also be employed in such places... I've thought about this, however it would only isolate people and not solve the issue, for example to run from Jita-Rens it's a long hisec only route, and a much shorter cut through but "carebears" will still prefer the long way most of the time. Quote: We need a deeper immersion for lowsec, bring it on please, make lowsec the dark and dangerous underbelly that society loves to hate... Lowsec shouldnt be a dangerous version of hisec, just as 0.0 isnt a no concord version of hisec. It should be a seperate experience in itself... There needs to be more of an incentive, a tortuga-like atmosphere. Incarna can build on this a bit by allowing gambling and "banned" activities in stations. Larger pirate corps need motivation to "claim" a system, extort players but in the same breath protect their investment. The possibility is there. Forget removing WTZ and complaining about that, it's here to stay. fix station camping, and teach people how to avoid smartbombing battleships (it's too easy people, too easy...)
Stil Harkonnen	Posted - 2010.01.11 02:52:00 - [10] Quote: NPC pirates that interact? It'd be too much. There are plenty of Prats to go around that ransom. What's needed is a ransom icon on the "selected item" window. When pressed against a target, the other player has some sort of notification (not an intrusive chat window) but maybe some kind of blinking dialogue box. If the victim pays the ransom, the pirate loses its lock for 3-5 seconds or so. This could also be LOGGED and placed for a true ransom board. It would also make honoring ransoms more of a probability, without forcing pirates to actually ransom. actually not a bad idea for ransoms. Only thing i can see wrong with this is that it becomes impossible to dishonour ransoms. And instead of the pirate losing lock for 3-5 seconds, player would have to become invulnerable for a small amount of time. Otherwise you just have your friend pirate hold him there and kill him after ransom is paid. Although that could be abused in fleet fights with allies ransoming each other... Maybe make the ship invulnerable, and the ship not be able to activate any none local modules? Idk that'd have to be thought over.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.11 18:10:00 - [11] Edited by: Rico Minali on 11/01/2010 18:12:02 Also to Empire Dweller, since I cant quote 2 people at once... So this is about his smartbomb rubbish too. Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Rico Minali TL, DR: make pirating easier Low sec problem is that pirating is easy. It is extremely easy to find targets (if they are there) and kill them if they aren't there searching for a fight. So most people that is not interested in pirating spend as little time as possible in low sec. So making pirating even easier will not help you. It will simply push even more people away from low sec. Here go the hisec emo boys.. If you read the post, it is not about pirating you rich folk of hisec, its about making lowsec a better playing environment for those who WANT to live there. If you dont want risk, dont go to lowsec, it isnt as though hisec is small... Also, I have never lit a smartbomb in my life, Ive never even fitted one, check my corp on battleclinic if you like, you will see it full of combat ships flown by combat organisations. And they wont be in the losses section, so please be quiet on this one. So, can we have comments and ideas from the people who live in lowsec, not the ones whod like to make it safe. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
cBOLTSON Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.01.11 22:50:00 - [12] Edited by: cBOLTSON on 11/01/2010 22:51:58 Ive got to say, I really like some of the ideas here. Ever since ccp mentioned talk of a criminal underworld element being discussed, ive allways thought that has to be lowsec. This, in my opinion, would become popular. It would also offer a real feeling of being in dangerous space. Needs discussion, but supported!
Erika Bronz Gallente The Wyld Hunt Saints Amongst Sinners	Posted - 2010.01.13 04:19:00 - [13] I live in lowsec, and lowsec is fine. If they want to boost it, exploration should be the way. By boosting exploration, you would see the increased NPC criminal activity, if you need the role play background. The harder plexes are hard enough, but there is too many of the weaker ones. Lowsec combat plexes should equal L3-L5 missions in my opinion. The ones you can find with onboard scanner should be L3. The ones you need to scan down with probes should at least be equal to an easy L4. Escalations could even be harder than L5 missions. I hear the mineral output from different ores are somewhat unbalanced. This could be looked at so lowsec ore is a bit more worth than today. But as I've understood, this is not directly a lowsec problem. More a balancing problem in general. I don't like the suggestions in the opening post. Go to true lowsec, or fake nullsec, if you want. Players can't hold sovereignity, and criminal faction have their own agents there. No sentry guns will bother with what you are doing. Neither will CONCORD, so no global criminal countdown or security hit. Eve already has a player run underworld and black markets. If you expose it to the daylight, it will not be a underworld or black market anymore. CONCORD provides security against crime too, not only faction navys do this, and in war times borders are well guarded by navy. Makes no sense to have lowsec borders throughout Empire. If anything, it should be harder to smuggle over war borders. Crooked cops? No reason to implement NPC's to do what players already do better.
Alekseyev Karrde	Posted - 2010.01.13 08:59:00 - [14] Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 13/01/2010 09:00:40 1. I like where you're going with this, but i think sentry gun immunity would be a bit much. A more balance approach would be the pirate group that system's police are on the payroll of could be bribed from stations to end the pirates Global Criminal Countdown early. This would allow local pirates to do their thing without waiting a full 15 minutes between attacks, act as an isk sink, and still be somewhat balanced because the pirate would be criminal'd at least as long as it takes him to dock. 2. Hell yeah. With piratey LP stores and rewards too. 3. A proper Black Market sounds like a great idea. I dislike using NPC orders to fuel smuggling though. I think a better approach would be for the smuggling profession to be moving those black market or pirate lp items OUT of lowsec and into or through highsec. The tricky part would be developing some kind of system whereby it's hard to move these things into highsec (Customs agents) but players living in highsec would still be able to use them. 4. I'd be OK with this, especially if more pirate items come through rewards. As it is now, the main way to get pirate items is by killing NPC pirates and looting them, which i am sure CONCORD doesnt mind at all. Plus as i mentioned above, making them blanket illegal to use kneecaps a player driven smuggling profession 5. See 3 and 4 6. Meh 7. Sounds good but i think its practical application wouldnt really help. And of course a personal #8: Give people a reason to go out of their way to hunt pirates. I was a lowsec resident for a long time under the anti piracy banner. All we ever got was the occasional thank you to pay for fighting PVP experts all damn day. Security status gains, standing gains, bounty hunter profession implementation, etc. Give the "good guys" a living. EDIT: Forgot to add #8 will increase the lowsec population by having antipirate corps come back in style (more pirate opponents) and non pirate, non pirate hunter players wanting to exploit lowsec riches more chance at security (more pirate targets). It's really a win-win. ---
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.01.13 10:04:00 - [15] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 13/01/2010 10:12:30 Originally by: Rico Minali Also to Empire Dweller, since I cant quote 2 people at once... So this is about his smartbomb rubbish too. Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Rico Minali TL, DR: make pirating easier Low sec problem is that pirating is easy. It is extremely easy to find targets (if they are there) and kill them if they aren't there searching for a fight. So most people that is not interested in pirating spend as little time as possible in low sec. So making pirating even easier will not help you. It will simply push even more people away from low sec. Here go the hisec emo boys.. If you read the post, it is not about pirating you rich folk of hisec, its about making lowsec a better playing environment for those who WANT to live there. If you dont want risk, dont go to lowsec, it isnt as though hisec is small... Also, I have never lit a smartbomb in my life, Ive never even fitted one, check my corp on battleclinic if you like, you will see it full of combat ships flown by combat organisations. And they wont be in the losses section, so please be quiet on this one. So, can we have comments and ideas from the people who live in lowsec, not the ones whod like to make it safe. Read and think before commenting. And don't pile together 2 very different posts. I have not asked to make low sec safer, I pointed out that you will get even less people there making gate camping easier. Point for point: 1) You want a way to disable gate guns so you can use interceptors and lock even fas jumping ships. Perfect, so you make a granted thing that a large part of the haulers that today pass through low sec will avoid it. Tanking a smartbomb in a blockade runner is easy. Tanking a gatecamp long enough to get away when a inty has blocked your jump capability and webbed you is way harder. End result of this idea, less people will live in low sec. 2) Criminal agents: Low sec has plenty of 4 +20 agents. So what do you want? Pirate faction agents in competition with 0.0 so that you can lower 0.0 rewards (more pirate faction LP = lower value for pirate faction LP)? New pirate factions with new toys? No to both. FW is exactly new low sec faction with new toys. I don't want to see all the PvE work CCP do for a year used for low sec or 0.0 damaged to favour low sec. 3) Meh and mostly useless, but no problem with this. 4) No. Already explained why by other comments. 5) Ok. 6) No. 7) No again. You are again searching for a easy gank. And BTW, you make a liar of yourself when you post this "If you read the post, it is not about pirating you rich folk of hisec".
Empire Dweller Pator Tech School	Posted - 2010.01.13 10:21:00 - [16] I like how the guy says this.... Here go the hisec emo boys.. If you read the post, it is not about pirating you rich folk of hisec, its about making lowsec a better playing environment for those who WANT to live there. If you dont want risk, dont go to lowsec, it isnt as though hisec is small... Of course it was said after his post where he wants hi sec made into little islands surrounded by lo sec. Does that sound a bit contradictory to anyone else? Heres the real problem with lo sec. It has nothing to do with players wanting to avoid risk, nothing to do with game rewards, mechanic, or anything of that sort. Simply put- wannabe pirates camped certain chokepoints so frequently, and killed anything that passed through with no regard to if it was worth killing- that no one bothers to go through there anymore. Atm you go to low sec for a few reasons. To camp a gate with friends so you remain 100% safe. To sneak through in the smallest of ship- you risk little so might as well try the shortcut. Your so new you think low sec is the place to go for some pew pew. Yes a few ppl prolly go to mission or run probe sites- the above stands true for the majority of visitors though.
Tyr Aeron E.A.D Alliance Omega Vector	Posted - 2010.01.13 11:07:00 - [17] I spend a good deal of time in low-sec and my corp flies the "anti-pirate" banner, though somewhat loosely. We engage reds when we can find them, but more often than not, we'll get bored after a couple hours of system jumping and not finding anyone with a low enough sec status that we'll just go ahead and lock up the first yellow we see or anyone who's corp sounds 'piratey'. Other than just getting in some PvP, there's absolutely no incentive for most empire dewllers to go into low-sec. On the flip side, a lot of PvP'ers live almost entirely in high sec because it's safer and easier to war-dec in high sec so you can play station games all day and catch the occasional noob not paying attention. So, what we've got is a large number of industrialists that pretty much have to go into low-sec to do POS stuff and the PvP'ers that live almost exclusively in high-sec. Does anyone else see the problem with that? Give me some incentive to shoot the reds and leave everyone else alone. I'd move to low-sec permenantly if there were oportunity to make the kind of ISK I make in high-sec and I'm sure others would too. What's the saying that CCP is so fond of? "With great risk comes great reward." I lived in 0.0 for a few weeks when I was a wee noob and I can say that a busy 0.0 is WAY safer than Old Man Star on a slow day. There's the great risk, now where's my great reward?
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.01.13 11:28:00 - [18] Originally by: Tyr Aeron I spend a good deal of time in low-sec and my corp flies the "anti-pirate" banner, though somewhat loosely. We engage reds when we can find them, but more often than not, we'll get bored after a couple hours of system jumping and not finding anyone with a low enough sec status that we'll just go ahead and lock up the first yellow we see or anyone who's corp sounds 'piratey'. Lol. So you're basically pirates. Anyways low sec has so much potential, quite frankly it'd be nice if they did anything at all with low sec. +1 from me. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Spugg Galdon	Posted - 2010.01.13 12:15:00 - [19] Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 13/01/2010 12:18:56 Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 13/01/2010 09:00:40 3. A proper Black Market sounds like a great idea. I dislike using NPC orders to fuel smuggling though. I think a better approach would be for the smuggling profession to be moving those black market or pirate lp items OUT of lowsec and into or through highsec. The tricky part would be developing some kind of system whereby it's hard to move these things into highsec (Customs agents) but players living in highsec would still be able to use them. I disagree. Those illegal itmes (drugs etc) should be sold somewhere to NPC's for a good price. "REAL" smuggling is lacking because there is no profit. Give people a "Smuggler trader" profession with seeded buy/sell orders in lowsec and get a real "underworld" blackmarket going. You could even produce a "Smuggler" class T2 ship. I would suggest the Frigate class miner/trader ships (Tormentor/Bantam/Navitas/Burst) and give them bonus to agility and a special "smuggling hold" thats small (bonus/lvl in size) but almost immune to customs officials. Make Customs in high sec better at their job. EDIT: Support but discussion also required
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.01.13 12:48:00 - [20] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 13/01/2010 12:56:51 Originally by: Spugg Galdon Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 13/01/2010 12:18:56 Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 13/01/2010 09:00:40 3. A proper Black Market sounds like a great idea. I dislike using NPC orders to fuel smuggling though. I think a better approach would be for the smuggling profession to be moving those black market or pirate lp items OUT of lowsec and into or through highsec. The tricky part would be developing some kind of system whereby it's hard to move these things into highsec (Customs agents) but players living in highsec would still be able to use them. I disagree. Those illegal itmes (drugs etc) should be sold somewhere to NPC's for a good price. "REAL" smuggling is lacking because there is no profit. Give people a "Smuggler trader" profession with seeded buy/sell orders in lowsec and get a real "underworld" blackmarket going. You could even produce a "Smuggler" class T2 ship. I would suggest the Frigate class miner/trader ships (Tormentor/Bantam/Navitas/Burst) and give them bonus to agility and a special "smuggling hold" thats small (bonus/lvl in size) but almost immune to customs officials. Make Customs in high sec better at their job. EDIT: Support but discussion also required Low sec to low sec, NPC to NPC, illegal items trade with good rewards is a bad idea. It will reward people with jump freighters or even titans (read the old threads about the enriched uranium trade by BOB via titan jump portal) and pump isk into the system via NPC buy orders. A low sec NPC to high sec NPC option with some kind of special buy order (accessible with standing with the right corporation?) or something like the old agent offers (before the LP store) where they asked for drugs offering some good deal would be better; some kind of black market LP store where you can trade illegal items available only in low sec for special implants or other LP-like offers. Essentially using illegal materials available in low sec like some alternate version of the tags used in some LP store offer. Add some skill or ship modification to increase the chance of passing custom and you will have a new kind of trade Originally by: Tyr Aeron Give me some incentive to shoot the reds and leave everyone else alone. I'd move to low-sec permenantly if there were oportunity to make the kind of ISK I make in high-sec and I'm sure others would too. You can already make more isk running mission in low sec than in high sec. Risk is higher but reward is higher too. But that don't seem to be what interest you. If I read you correctly, you want a way to make isk doing PvP, right? Sorry, but that is not possible without breaking the game. PvP is a negative sum game, as a group the participants in a fight finish it with less net worth than before starting it (counting insurance payout as something already owned by the payer). Some player in every fight can end with more net worth if he loot the enemy wreck, but he will always loot less than the value of the items lost by the other player. Changing that will remove every consequence from PvP fights, making the game some kind of FPS.
Empire Dweller Pator Tech School	Posted - 2010.01.13 13:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Tyr Aeron Give me some incentive to shoot the reds and leave everyone else alone. I'd move to low-sec permenantly if there were oportunity to make the kind of ISK I make in high-sec and I'm sure others would too. Pvp is not an isk making endeavor- for the most part. You can make isk with ransoms and through the resale of loot. You want incentive to shoot only reds? how about the massive increase in traffic youll see? Incentive enough? Originally by: Tyr Aeron What's the saying that CCP is so fond of? "With great risk comes great reward." I lived in 0.0 for a few weeks when I was a wee noob and I can say that a busy 0.0 is WAY safer than Old Man Star on a slow day. There's the great risk, now where's my great reward? Low sec is less safe because the inhabitants there are morons. Shoot everything in sight- then wonder why no one ever goes through there. As for the risk vs reward argument- what you want a ticker? every second your in low sec you get x amount of isk? Low sec missions pay more then hi sec missions. Low sec probe sites are better then hi sec probe sites. What more do you want really? The only reason low sec sucks- is because the inhabitants are morons. No amount of game mechanic changes will change the fact the ppl living there are idiots who will shoot a shuttle for the lulz.
Spugg Galdon	Posted - 2010.01.13 15:04:00 - [22] Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 13/01/2010 15:06:17 removed post as I completly ****ed up the quote thingy
Spugg Galdon	Posted - 2010.01.13 15:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 13/01/2010 12:56:51 Originally by: Spugg Galdon Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 13/01/2010 12:18:56 Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 13/01/2010 09:00:40 3. A proper Black Market sounds like a great idea. I dislike using NPC orders to fuel smuggling though. I think a better approach would be for the smuggling profession to be moving those black market or pirate lp items OUT of lowsec and into or through highsec. The tricky part would be developing some kind of system whereby it's hard to move these things into highsec (Customs agents) but players living in highsec would still be able to use them. I disagree. Those illegal itmes (drugs etc) should be sold somewhere to NPC's for a good price. "REAL" smuggling is lacking because there is no profit. Give people a "Smuggler trader" profession with seeded buy/sell orders in lowsec and get a real "underworld" blackmarket going. You could even produce a "Smuggler" class T2 ship. I would suggest the Frigate class miner/trader ships (Tormentor/Bantam/Navitas/Burst) and give them bonus to agility and a special "smuggling hold" thats small (bonus/lvl in size) but almost immune to customs officials. Make Customs in high sec better at their job. EDIT: Support but discussion also required Low sec to low sec, NPC to NPC, illegal items trade with good rewards is a bad idea. It will reward people with jump freighters or even titans (read the old threads about the enriched uranium trade by BOB via titan jump portal) and pump isk into the system via NPC buy orders. A low sec NPC to high sec NPC option with some kind of special buy order (accessible with standing with the right corporation?) or something like the old agent offers (before the LP store) where they asked for drugs offering some good deal would be better; some kind of black market LP store where you can trade illegal items available only in low sec for special implants or other LP-like offers. Essentially using illegal materials available in low sec like some alternate version of the tags used in some LP store offer. Add some skill or ship modification to increase the chance of passing custom and you will have a new kind of trade Originally by: Tyr Aeron Give me some incentive to shoot the reds and leave everyone else alone. I'd move to low-sec permenantly if there were oportunity to make the kind of ISK I make in high-sec and I'm sure others would too. You can already make more isk running mission in low sec than in high sec. Risk is higher but reward is higher too. But that don't seem to be what interest you. If I read you correctly, you want a way to make isk doing PvP, right? Sorry, but that is not possible without breaking the game. PvP is a negative sum game, as a group the participants in a fight finish it with less net worth than before starting it (counting insurance payout as something already owned by the payer). Some player in every fight can end with more net worth if he loot the enemy wreck, but he will always loot less than the value of the items lost by the other player. Changing that will remove every consequence from PvP fights, making the game some kind of FPS. How about making the seeded buy orders a cosmos spawn that are fairly small and can be fulfilled quickly. Basically, drug dealers needed a quick supply that is outside of their normal supply. This prevents the haulnaught make billions in one cyno thing. no? these cosmos agents could then respwn elsewhere in the region/constelation for another deal. High reward but probably high risk, passing through low sec and hi sec with valuble illegal cargo. Hence my suggestion of a T2 frigate that is a smuggler.
Future Mutant Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.01.13 15:25:00 - [24] First off- dear god of pyramid quoting please save us.. Second- npc items sold back to npc's as a game design- sucks. Its something ccp should move away from- not towards.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.14 09:30:00 - [25] Edited by: Rico Minali on 14/01/2010 09:30:52 bad quote... sorry Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.14 09:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Empire Dweller Low sec is less safe because the inhabitants there are morons. Shoot everything in sight- then wonder why no one ever goes through there. As for the risk vs reward argument- what you want a ticker? every second your in low sec you get x amount of isk? Low sec missions pay more then hi sec missions. Low sec probe sites are better then hi sec probe sites. What more do you want really? The only reason low sec sucks- is because the inhabitants are morons. No amount of game mechanic changes will change the fact the ppl living there are idiots who will shoot a shuttle for the lulz. As you continue to not understand what I am talking about, I will try to explain, many inhabitants of lowsec, and I mean the people who really LIVE there, spend more time fighting in large battles against rivals than in little, smaller gangs of pirates. Yes, there are people who gatecamp, and quite frankly Ive never understood the attraction to it, it is boring, but each to their own. Yes, we ar ecriminals, but we fight the other criminals and antipirates, that is how lowsec really aught to be, not a place where carebears, yes there are craebears in lowsec, but tghey should be in organisations that can defend them. All I ever see is small minded people moaning that lowsec isnt safe for carebears. NO IT ISNT. IT ISNT SUPPOSED TO BE! Im not interested in making lowsec more attractive to cxarebears so they can be ganked, what i am suggesting is that lowsec should be a place where criminals fight their rivals, where antipirates and bounty hunters go to hunt their quarry. Where smugglers make their fortune. It isnt like hisec. It isnt like 0.0, even npc 0.0, it is where the CRIMINALS and OUTLAWS of EMPIRE live. I bet if i made a post saying lowsec should have concord, and much better rewards for carebears and some ore that makes twice what hisec gets, you emo guys would be like 'HELL YEAH!' Well, you have those places, hisec, and get some nice safe 0.0 and go mine there. Leave lowsec to the people who actually want it to be DANGEROUS AND DARK. So to reacp: NONE OF THIS POST IS TO ENCOURAGE MORE CAREBEARS FOR GANKING. And I agree with the gate guns thing, yeah it would be unbalanced to not have them shoot. However, I wasnt thinking about interceptors since we can boost a HIC up to a scan res of well over a thousand to do that job, and with an infinite point. So no, again, I wasnt thinking about ganking carebears... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Aenikus Kingfisher Industries	Posted - 2010.01.14 10:21:00 - [27] I agree that low sec needs some love; as a PVE carebear I need some good reasons to give it a go apart from being an easy kill mail for an "ebil piwate". There was a black market skill but CCP took it out and never put it back in. It was one of reasons under the old character creation system to make an Intaki commercial pilot with high charisma as they were supposed to get this from the start. Blackmarket and smuggling skills combined with cloak and transports could give a very lucrative profession of smuggler, taking these dodgy goods from low to hi sec. Someone on the fringe between criminal and empire, perhaps add a NPC bribe skill giving you a chance of docking where you normally could not. The problem I think is that low sec has become synonymous with lawless, whereas it should have been more about "free market enterprise", brave new frontier, and no big government on your back. Somewhere for the little guy to make his mark, instead it is all about Sov and alliances bullying the little guy worse than the empire bureaucrats and tax collectors. No wonder many people don't want to go there!
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.14 10:37:00 - [28] Anything to set low-sec apart from high-sec is fine by me, we need more people to live there. Some of the ideas you have do not however take into account that it is still Empire, just not patrolled as diligently as high-sec. 1. Sentries are Concord, and thus not avoidable (would be a bit much as well ). Better to give huge discounts on POS fuel consumption, station services costs, perhaps an increase in sec gain from rats in system(s) and a dividend skimmed off market transaction fees. 2. No. Grind LP for fancy (now godly) faction boats in relative safety compared to 0.0 agents? 3-4. The amount of contraband in game doesn't warrant it. A Nightmare having been captured and re-commissioned to do good instead of evil, why would the Empires object - it is the ultimate slap in the Pirate factions faces . 5. Smuggling has never really existed; its a nice idea, not really low-sec but rather high-sec related since that is where the enforcement is. Perhaps tie it into #1 allowing "free passage" of goods into the high-sec system bordering a "haven", move NPC buy orders around to make several juicy possible routes. 6. Wouldn't special encounter sites be better, maybe even a spin-off of the pirate magnet system upgrade thingie? You need to figure out how system dominance is obtained and held first though. You ideally want a mechanic where different corporations fight over control of the most valuable systems similar to 0.0.
Kade Jeekin Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2010.01.14 12:07:00 - [29] CCP mentioned Pirate factions getting involved in faction war. I suspect that this would be linked to their other ideas of viceroys. Maybe ultimately allowing pirate-aligned capsuleers to take control of losec systems. CCP destroyed the real black market, and smuggling occupation, when it allowed placement of illegal items, such as Slaves and Boosters, onto the regular market. So, for some of your proposal: * Push forward with Pirate faction warfare * Remove the ability to put illegal items onto the regular market in hisec space * Put a couple of Pirate agents into space in lo-losec systems (maybe 0.1 or 0.2 sec)
Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2010.01.15 18:39:00 - [30] Originally by: Venkul Mul Low sec problem is that pirating is easy. It is extremely easy to find targets (if they are there) and kill them if they aren't there searching for a fight. [...] You can already make more isk running mission in low sec than in high sec. Risk is higher but reward is higher too. Spoken like someone who hasn't spent a lot of time in a pirate's shoes. Or, err. Pod. It's extremely difficult to get into a fight with someone that doesn't want to be caught. Don't believe me? I'll take my nub ship to any low sec system of your choosing. I won't dock up. I'll give you 4 hours to hunt me down and kill me. 4 full hours of glorified hunt-the-griffin. You won't be able to catch me. Also, I'm not sure how many missions you have run in low-sec, but the rewards are not significantly larger. It is barely noticeable, especially when compared to the rat bounties / salvage / etc. And yes, I have run L3s and L4s in low-sec (and L1s in null-sec, woo!). The OP isn't looking to make pirating easier; he is looking to add flavor and reward to low-sec. Right now most people are in high-sec (very low risk, decent reward) or null-sec (high risk, but high rewards). Low-sec has no reward that you can't find in high or null sec. It has no real reason to exist either. Nothing that makes it special or interesting. Personally I find the idea of a 'black market' to be particularly interesting. Perhaps this is a place where pirate ships and modules could be put up on the market instead of the annoying contract system. I also find it contradictory that boosters are illegal in high-sec, yet you can put them on the market. What gives? NPC pirate factions deserve stations and agents in low-sec. It is supposed to be where the criminal elements are, yet they have zero presence other than being rats in belts. What gives? Allow corporations to make deals with the NPC pirates in local systems. The effects can be as simple as the belt rats leaving you alone, unless you fire first, giving you a possible edge in belt combat and perhaps allowing you to aggress under gates and stations without sentry fire. Fix the low-sec ore so that it is valuable. There is NO reason to mine in low-sec right now. I bring out this oldie-but-goodie once in a while: Bring Back Pirate Ship Logs. These add flavor to the game. CCP, why did you remove them? Instead of pointing to the systems with static farmable static complexes, allow them to be 'used' to add an expedition to your journal that takes you into a nearby low-sec system. Also, allow them to be turned into the appropriate pirate faction for LP rewards (a reward for recovery of sensitive information). You can do one or the other; get the LPs, or get an expedition. I also propose that there be a split in invention. "Concord Sanctioned" invention, where things continue as they are now in high-sec. "Illegal" invention, where you have the chance of inventing higher-level meta items, or completely unique items. This can tie into the black market idea, and exploration sites that exist only in low-sec. This is scientific invention that is deemed 'too dangerous' or 'unethical', so cannot be carried out in high-sec. Originally by: Kade Jeekin CCP mentioned Pirate factions getting involved in faction war. This would be awesome.
Magnus Orin United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2010.01.15 19:10:00 - [31] Edited by: Magnus Orin on 15/01/2010 19:11:16 I'm 100% in favour of #7. I want there to be no possible way to go from Minmatar space to Amarr space without traversing lowsec etc. This could create multiple trade route pipes. The shortest ones would most likely be near permanently camped, creating a lucrative smuggling business, as daring pilots in cov-ops, fast frigates, or cov ops haulers get hired to break through these camps to trade inter-regionally (Smuggling should not be versus npcs, it should be versus other players). You could basically chose to go; A) through that one low sec jump from region to region that is most certainly camped, or b) you can choose to take a more round about route that would lead through 4-5 or more low sec jumps, increasing your exposure, but reducing the risk per jump. There is too much high sec in the game. Although I do agree, that beyond what I've said above low sec needs a real reason to attract the criminals of Eve. I really hope that a low sec revamp is included with the Incarna expansion, whenever it comes. I hate the idea of WIS for the sake of WIS, but if it could be coupled with nefarious deeds that could only be accomplished in low sec stations, I feel the two could be good bed-partners for an awesome expansion.
Meredith Midnight	Posted - 2010.01.15 19:21:00 - [32] Quote: 3: The BlackMarket, have a market that can ONLY be accessed when in lowsec, and with items that can ONLY be sold on the black market. All 'illegal' items moved onto this market. Maybe with npc smuggling items too. see also 4. I would like there to be an option that would allow pirates to gather bribery passes, so that you can smuggle drugs into highsec without having to deal with customs agents scanning you down and fining you, the dialog box that comes up telling you to pay a fine or die would now have a 3rd option to 'bribe'. Also, transfer of killrights, people can sell their killrights on the market. That would make for an awesome black market. I can see it now, right click on kill rights, 'generate kill right certificate' and poof a new item comes up in your inventory that you can put for sale/contract (like a PLEX), with the expiration date in the name.. like "John doe - 10:10:10 10/10/10" - 1 isk.
De'Veldrin Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.01.15 19:32:00 - [33] I support the idea of giving lowsec a reason to go there. This is the central issue with lowsec's lack of population. And here's the thing - all these people talk about remove high sec, limit high sec routes to place in order to FORCE people into lowsec. Forcing people to do things they don't want to do generally fails - you have to make them want to do it, which means incentivizing low sec, not nerfing high security space. Let's face it, lowsec has all the disadvantages of nullsec, and none of the advantages. You can't claim the systems, so the sov holding alliances have no real reason to maintain a presence. The difference in reward is minimal when compared to the suddenly increased risk versus high security space. When you get right down to it, wormholes are what low sec should have been in the first place. It needs to have something unique in order to draw people there, or you get exactly what we have now - a vast swath of space that people rarely visit because there's no reason for them to do so. --Vel Brand new year, same old attitude.
Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2010.01.15 19:35:00 - [34] Originally by: Meredith Midnight I would like there to be an option that would allow pirates to gather bribery passes, so that you can smuggle drugs into highsec without having to deal with customs agents scanning you down and fining you, the dialog box that comes up telling you to pay a fine or die would now have a 3rd option to 'bribe'. Such as bribing the police to allow an outlaw to operate in high-sec for a limited time without being fired upon?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.01.15 20:05:00 - [35] Originally by: Andrea Griffin Originally by: Venkul Mul Low sec problem is that pirating is easy. It is extremely easy to find targets (if they are there) and kill them if they aren't there searching for a fight. [...] You can already make more isk running mission in low sec than in high sec. Risk is higher but reward is higher too. Spoken like someone who hasn't spent a lot of time in a pirate's shoes. Or, err. Pod. It's extremely difficult to get into a fight with someone that doesn't want to be caught. Don't believe me? I'll take my nub ship to any low sec system of your choosing. I won't dock up. I'll give you 4 hours to hunt me down and kill me. 4 full hours of glorified hunt-the-griffin. You won't be able to catch me. Also, I'm not sure how many missions you have run in low-sec, but the rewards are not significantly larger. It is barely noticeable, especially when compared to the rat bounties / salvage / etc. And yes, I have run L3s and L4s in low-sec (and L1s in null-sec, woo!). Removing half of the quote change completely the meaning. Quote: Low sec problem is that pirating is easy. It is extremely easy to find targets (if they are there) and kill them if they aren't there searching for a fight. So most people that is not interested in pirating spend as little time as possible in low sec. So making pirating even easier will not help you. It will simply push even more people away from low sec. For your dare, if you can do something meaningful in those 4 hours beside jumping from safespot to safespot, you are very good (and using a ship with a extremely low signature). Quote: Also, I'm not sure how many missions you have run in low-sec, but the rewards are not significantly larger. Only partially true. How much SP you have in social skills? How well you have chosen you corporation, based on value of the LP (Gallente LP store is the worse in my eyes)? The largest gain and difference between high sec rewards and low sec missions come from LP and to capitalize it to the max you need high levels of SP in the special connection skills and use a corporation with a good LP store. When you get 3.000+ extra SP each mission and convert them at 2.500 isk/LP you can gain an extra 15 million/hour if you can run the missions. The problem is that it easy to find you and disrupt what you are doing. So making it even easier to disrupt low sec activities will not help populating it and I doubt it will increase the fun of those living there.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.16 08:32:00 - [36] Originally by: Andrea Griffin Edited by: Andrea Griffin on 15/01/2010 19:38:18 Originally by: Meredith Midnight I would like there to be an option that would allow pirates to gather bribery passes, so that you can smuggle drugs into highsec without having to deal with customs agents scanning you down and fining you, the dialog box that comes up telling you to pay a fine or die would now have a 3rd option to 'bribe'. Such as bribing the police to allow an outlaw to operate in high-sec for a limited time without being fired upon? Edit: What about missions that send flashy red people into high-sec? "We need someone to take care of a 'problem' in a very discreet manner... You will be able to access this system for the duration of the mission. Don't worry, I've made certain that the local law enforcement will turn a blind eye to your presence for now." I like this idea.. But could be abused to allow criminals into hisec by acceptinga a mission, then using the time to wreak havok in hisec... There would need to be some safeguard to stop this, like for instance, if you warp anywhere except to the mission point, concord will still get you. And will the people arguing here stop it, this is NOT about making life harder for carebears, it isnt a hisec versus lowsec argument, it is for the sake and enjoyment of lowsec, making it a better playing environment for anyone who wants to live there. I dont care if hisec folks come to lowsec or not, I am interested in making lowsec enjoyable by itself. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.17 18:26:00 - [37] I have updated the original post to remove the most unpopular/unviable bits. (not including the emo posts that are convinced I am just trying to get more carebears into lowsec to gang, when the oposite is true, what this is about is making lowsec a place for teh people who want to live there, not the occasional visitor). Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Aloriana Jacques Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2010.01.17 19:27:00 - [38] I encourage a much needed low-sec boost to give it more purpose. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
Matting NQX Innovations HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.01.25 05:18:00 - [39] Edited by: Matting on 25/01/2010 05:27:51 I have supported this but does need more refining and discussion. I love the black market idea but I think more content would need to be developed for this to really work. I want to discuss missions as I think there is an imbalance with low-sec rewards for standard missions. The people who aren't newbies that do mission in low-sec do it either for the challenge/something different or because they are pirates and don't have access to high sec. I think currently the system is very skewed towards the hunter/attacker and while balancing this doesn't mean I want more carebears in low-sec. It means more corps would be willing to setup in low-sec for better rewards and protect their area which in turn should result in more territorial fights. Issues with the current balance. - Only the LP increases for doing low-sec missions this is only around 1/3 of the rewards. - Scanning out mission runners (in low sec) is too easy now. - Salvaging/Looting is a big component of rewards and you are very much a sitting duck again especially if you hand the mission in so its not dead space (probe your exact position not just the first gate). - Bounties in missions don't change for being in low-sec - Possibility of being camped in station or blocked from missions if too many pirates always passing through. Now not all of these need fixing as such but they do add up to mean that low-sec missions just return such a crap reward for the risks and possible denial to run them. With better rewards it would make corps/groups move out there and fight for their mission spots. Currently the rewards are so bad high sec corps wouldn't even try. This may sound like getting bears in low-sec but to me a bear won't come out even with high rewards, these corps are the ones who skip low-sec as even a viable option and go straight out to 0.0 for the riches out there. GCC Timer - I think this should be a bit more dynamic, say in .1 its only 5mins and scales up to 15mins at .4 space. Though even I feel 15mins is too much sometimes, if your in a small ship you are very limited in what you can do and most of the time I dock up or cloak while i wait out the timer. It seems a waste of time when you only have 1-2 hours to play. I really do like the idea of corps of all kinds being able to live in low-sec and live off the area instead of relying on alts for isk. Yes yes some pirates are very successful but this does seem very dependent on timezone and low-sec in my TZ (+10) can be fairly quiet. I think another easy way to boost low-sec is with loot/salvage. Make the drop dynamic depending on if its >= .5 or < .5 with more higher meta loot and more salvage. Wormholes were a good proof that some high-sec players (not care bears) will go to where the profits are, people die in WH's but a lot still do it because the rewards are great enough to factor in a loss every now and then. One thing i don't want happening in low-sec is buying protection from gate guns so they don't shoot you with GCC. (Stations guns I'm not sure on yet)
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.26 11:49:00 - [40] Good ideas coming in, this does need attention,so lets keep it atthe top. Lowsec should be a fun, immersive environment all on its own, notg just a 'middle ground' for hi and 0.0. So, get to the top and get more ideas in,lets get lowsec noticed and acted upon... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Alax Ray	Posted - 2010.01.26 21:44:00 - [41] Edited by: Alax Ray on 26/01/2010 21:45:01 Remove insurance payoff if ship was lost in lowsec/nullsec. Instead add bounty on account (not character) who blown the ship as percent of insurance payoff. Of course don't add bounty if you was defending. Proportional bounty will be payed to anyone doing collateral damage to account's (of any character) property, but less, than cost of lost property. nullsec damage doesn't counts. Add fast giving PvP missions to hunt high-bounties outlaws with real-time update. Add modules/skills to do pirating without revealing identity and thus avoiding hurting sec status and receiving bounties. Longer fight/bigger fleet - less chances to save anonymity.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.01.26 23:30:00 - [42] Originally by: Alax Ray There are 101 way to make lowsec lively place. This +. Why CCP just lets it languish there is beyond me. But I suppose I should have a bit of patience. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.01.27 10:56:00 - [43] I am linking a thread and proposal I made about changing the autobalancer for the mission payout so that they would be more "fair" for low sec/0.0. If you think it is a acceptable proposal support it (I haven't placed it in this thread as I think that placing it here would mean losing that suggestion under several other proposals). Low sec missions and the autobalancer
Cearain ReSlavers	Posted - 2010.01.27 15:45:00 - [44] some good ideas here.
XXSketchxx Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2010.01.27 16:26:00 - [45] 1. Yep 2. Please yes 3. Makes sense. 4. Absolutely 5. Vague but definitely needs looking into. 6. Could be interesting 7. Absolutely; the fact that you can travel almost anywhere in Empire with Concord support is silly; at the very least there should be low sec borders between the warring Empires. This would boost regional markets a lot as well. Low sec should truly be the criminal underworld. As it is now, its just no-mans land _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.29 18:24:00 - [46] Originally by: Jin Nib Originally by: Alax Ray There are 101 way to make lowsec lively place. This +. Why CCP just lets it languish there is beyond me. But I suppose I should have a bit of patience. A bit of patience wont work... You need to make a noise! LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE OF LOWSEC! And not Faction war... That is almost irrelevent to the people who live in lowsec, it is an entirely different event. What we are talking about there are the criminals, outlaws, gangs and warlords who live here, the anti pirates and bounty hunters who stalk there and lowsec industrials, the smugglers, black market dealers, teh adventurous from hisec wanting a little action., miners willing to risk the danger.. Or willing to pay the criminals to be left alone... Lowsec should be a dynamic environment, dark and dangerous, but with its own politics and workings... CCP listen! That is the lowsec we want! Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Lord FunkyMunky	Posted - 2010.01.29 18:31:00 - [47] I'm not even a pirate and i know lowsec needs love, and to be honest i must say i LOVE all of these suggestions. I really hope that Expansion OUTLAW is planned.
BECAUSE'OF FALCON	Posted - 2010.01.29 20:35:00 - [48] Supported for awesome ideas
Lord Helghast	Posted - 2010.01.29 21:15:00 - [49] Edited by: Lord Helghast on 29/01/2010 21:16:05 Not a pirate but know a few, and read their blogs etc, and as a highsec/nullsec dweller, Outlaws and Lowsec need some love... But i also thing their should be some difference between 0.4-0.1 right now their just numbers theirs no actual difference that i can tell something needs to make that change.... So lowsec sovereignty of sorts, well not sovereignty but im sure we can come up with an underworld crime syndicate type name. EDIT: what i find most hysterical about lowsec is... lowsec mining = EPIC FAIL, its literally useless why ever EVER EVER EVER risk lowsec mining or even ninja mining it the ores worth less than every other highsec ore! How about drug running missions in lowsec, kinda like courier missions that pay better but between lowsec areas, and always to do with drugs and carry drugs or manufacturing drugs in lowsec. 100% lowsec on both sides, designed for pirates and cloaky haulers etc.
Last Wolf Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.01.30 04:31:00 - [50] I wish there was a place similer to high sec for pirates, meaning ONLY pirates could enter. If you have a sec status of -4.9 or higher, YOU get shot on sight. Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down
Marcus Henik	Posted - 2010.01.30 11:09:00 - [51] Like the ideas, except the low sec boarder idea. its hard enough running a trade operation.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.30 11:20:00 - [52] It couldnt be like a single route channel from empire to empire anyway, but many crossing points, with back routes etc. It just makes sense that these empires who are supposed tp be enemies, are joined at the hip.. But, say minnie and gallente space could be joined, and caldari and amarr, as they are allies... Just thoughts here anyway. Many many good ideas... Get more! Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
159Hunter	Posted - 2010.01.30 11:54:00 - [53] Lowsec needs a boost for sure, don't agrre on all your points but in general: I like it
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.30 16:03:00 - [54] I have taken this idea to the ideas and features forum: OUTLAW Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Laechyd Eldgorn Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2010.01.30 18:25:00 - [55] Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn on 30/01/2010 18:25:40 We really need outlaw expansion. Also several game mechanics related to less legal activity and low sec needs real working. Meaning not only some random boost this and that but something real. I think most of people consider low sec as the "real" outlaw space because it's where "flashy" people are. I think this should be the viewpoint when making up some new stuff. Problem with recent "low sec oomphs" is that they were really not helping the outlaw kind of activity much. I don't really know how you could point out one single thing which needs working on because there's so much. But generally being an outlaw trying to catch miners/haulers does not really work that well. As in risking 300mil ship to kill 500k hauler which might drop you nothing except warp stabs then hear him complaining about how easy it's to shoot a hauler. That's after you've been waiting hours to see anyone.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2010.01.31 10:00:00 - [56] Edited by: Tulisin Dragonflame on 31/01/2010 10:03:10 Sounds like you're looking to give lowsec more of a piratey feel, but the problem is that no matter how much you spruce up the "dark underbelly" furniture, the fact remains that the entire lifestyle is pointless if lowsec isn't profitable for the empire folk to come down there and make their fortune/get hunted. The key to a populated lowsec is not to make it a better place for pirates, but to make it a better place for everyone else, who the pirates can then prey upon. And here is the especially big kicker: Carebear McMissionrunner needs to be able to make so much ISK in lowsec that they have a good chance of getting ganked on a semi-regular basis, and still coming out ahead of empire earnings. In short, you need to be able to easily pull in >50 mil/hr in lowsec. And since that would destroy the game's economy, it isn't going to happen. Empire incentives are just too high for lowsec to compete with all of its risks. Realistically, EVE has the tools to let players solve this problem themelves. The problem is that if some corp took it upon themselves to police and tax a lowsec constellation or two in order to grow a ratting/trading population, that simply instantly becomes "the place to pirate" and there are far more people looking to prey upon those trying to build up an economy than there are people to support it. The ratio to "Upstanding citizens trying to build wealth and infrastructure" to "Pirates who just want a piece of someone's pie" is way too far off to be effective. In short: Pirates prey on society, they're the seedy underbelly. Society thrives on social contract theory. EVE's population ignores social contract theory. Society ceases to exist (in lowsec), the underbelly has nothing to prey on, and ceases to exist. Lowsec lays barren.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.01.31 18:17:00 - [57] Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame stuff Incorrect, the point isn't about pirates vs's non pie's. It's about making low-sec a viable place to live without ****ing out an empire alt to pay for things. Mission runners really dont need more places to play, the epitome of what they want already exist in high sec. This is about the people who dont like high sec and don't like missions and who already want to live in low sec, about giving them the means to do so. That's all. Leave the Pie's vs Bears out of this. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00*
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.31 19:26:00 - [58] As above.. the point isnt to make piarcy easier, its to make lowsec a place with some substance, wjere the pirates fight each other for dominanice, where anit pirate or strong industrials with combat capability can carve out a little turf for themselves, for legal or illegal activities. It isnt about getting people to visit lowsec to make isk/get gamked, its abouit ,aking lowsec a viable place to live, with its own politics and culture.. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Aynen	Posted - 2010.01.31 21:34:00 - [59] On Item 3: If things gotten from the LP stores of pirate faction agents where illegal in high-sec, unless smuggled to a specific type of agents in high sec who can make the item legal, after which it can be sold on the normal market in high sec, then you have a valid smuggling mechanic that isn't based on NPC items that players have no use for. On most of the other ideas I have this to say: most players who stick to high-sec don't do so because the rewards in high-sec are higher, they do it because they have no interest in getting into pvp action on anyone's terms but their own, if ever. If all the lvl 4 agens where moved into low-sec, a lot of missioning high-sec players would simply do more lvl 3s, and earn less, and be very disgrunted. But most won't go to low-sec.
Don Pellegrino The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.02.01 04:32:00 - [60] I really like where this is going, you've got some really good ideas there.
Samuel Havrez 2nd Blood Raven Assault Squad Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.02.01 16:25:00 - [61] Let's call it Security Status Rebalance Myself, I would suggest: 1] High-sec is supposed to be NPC superpowers controlled space, so let's make it this way. If you are on bad terms with NPC superpower, you will not be allowed to enter the space and when you do, you will be shot on sight. If your security status drops bellow -1.0 you got banished from the "empire" to low sec. You cannot return back unless your security status at least 0 again, if you do you are shot on sight. If your security status drops while you are in high-sec, you will be asked to leave a.s.a.p (our low sec "pirates" will be happy to rejoin with similar minder brothers in empire and thus have plenty of targets to fire upon) If you destroy ship of other player in high-sec, concord destroyes your ship, you lose security standing and also charges you with prize of the ship you destroyed, suicidal ganking will disappear. Player corp vs. player corp warfare is prohibited in high-sec, it's logical that's local superpower will not like fighting in their territory. 2] Low sec is criminal haven. Add several criminal NPC faction agents there, several empire agents to redeem your standing. Most of the goods from the empire is not on the market (t2 a t3 equip) unless it is smuggled from empire. On reverse, you may smuggle drugs and pirate faction tech into the empire, this involves some npc agents too to pay you or make "things legal". Ocasional raids destroyable NPC ships to low sec. NPC rats are friendly to you if you have enough standing with them, unless you attack them first. 3] 0.0 unchanged as it is - complete sandbox up to players to shape =============================== Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.01 16:42:00 - [62] Edited by: Rico Minali on 01/02/2010 16:41:55 some good ideas being thrown in here guys, some less practical/popular, but thats wht this is about. Lets get OUTLAW noticed.. Any CSM input please? Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Triple Entendre Emergence Inc.	Posted - 2010.02.02 15:11:00 - [63] Up y'go! Couldn't agree more that Lowsec needs a major boost and these, for the most part, sound like great ideas.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.03 11:10:00 - [64] Well, when posted in Ideas and features it got trolled to death by 1 guy and his alts, so it will be left here. More support folks, more ideas... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2010.02.03 11:40:00 - [65] Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 03/02/2010 11:41:36 Trolling thread by request of the OP. Supports with your alts don't count, you know that right? PS: Drop #7 and I'll support. Lowsec does need a boost of some sort, but crippling the markets in empire isn't the way. --------------- 10/10: Where is your God now?
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.03 11:54:00 - [66] Mate, these are suggestions for discussion, not an I want list, all you had to say was, yes I agree, but not to number 7! Some like the idea, some dont, its just that; an idea. What we want is more suggestions, more ideas, counter ideas and proposals to get lowsec more interesting and engaging. None of my alts are here..lol, I dont have 45 accounts... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2010.02.03 13:34:00 - [67] Originally by: Rico Minali What we want is more suggestions, more ideas, counter ideas and proposals to get lowsec more interesting and engaging. Originally by: SupaKudoRio Drop #7 WTS Reading Comprehension skillbook, 100m. --------------- 10/10: Where is your God now?
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.03 22:28:00 - [68] Yes.. so support it, with the note that you dont like no. 7 It isnt gonna get removed as an idea.. doesnt mean it would be in any final draft... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Af'ilia	Posted - 2010.02.04 00:07:00 - [69] Support on some, faction ship would be interesting to, but probably wont happen. Maybe make newer ships that are bound to lowsec?
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.04 08:42:00 - [70] I will trawl through here and put any good/popular ideas on the main thread at some point, get it all together... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Harry Gozaimas	Posted - 2010.02.04 08:48:00 - [71] Good ideas. I particularly like the idea of a black market. and lowsec borders between the warring factions, makes complete sense, though would have to be plenty of possible ways through so that permacamps are rare. How about 'overcharged' versions of modules that are illegal in hisec? I htink there need to be some things that hisec people really cant have, to compensate for the relative safety they live in. And I live in hisec! I just think there needs to be some lowsec boosting, so fully suppported.
MercenaryMuffin The 0rder	Posted - 2010.02.04 09:32:00 - [72] Some good and bad ideas all around. I like this discussion, lowsec has needed an overhaul for a long time now. Zero-zero has received its massive boost, I think it's time lowsec gets the same. A few things here: First of all, in order to understand the problem with lowsec, you need to give a reason for people to come to lowsec who wouldn't normally. Everyone is happy just running L4s all day because there's no risk at all. How about making all L4 agents with positive quality ratings (1 to 20) available only in lowsec? On top of that, no more low-grade item drops from killed NPC ships during missions. The current mineral market is terrible, because you can just reprocess a bunch of junk from mission pick-ups and sell the minerals. When you eliminate item drops, the price of minerals goes up. This means more incentive to mine the lowsec and nullsec ores, because it will mean more isk/hour for those miners...if they're careful. Increase the value of scanned plexes in lowsec, make some systems hold more valuable ore, that sort of thing. CCP has talked for a while about being able to mine planetary rings and comets/asteroids that zip around in space. Perhaps these can only be mined in lowsec (you could say hi sec rings have already been stripped of their resources), and thus it would give people an incentive to mine. Speaking of mining...at risk of sounding like a carebear...we need a new class of Mining ships. Something that has a good, solid tank. Maybe the tank of a battleship. Think about it: You buy a Hulk for 150mil after fitting and rigs, yet most people will never take it out of hisec. Why? Because it can be popped by a T1 cruiser, or a T2 frig. I realize mining ships aren't meant to PvP, but for the love of all things decent, why are they so easy to kill? These are supposed to be big, heavy, tough ships. They work around asteroid fields, you'd think they would be built to take a little punishment. I propose a new class of Mining ship, which brings in less ore than a Hulk, but has a much stronger tank. That way, it wouldn't be so scary to the miners to venture into lowsec to get more valuable ore. Pirate markets. A black market. Like has been said before, make the buying and selling of things like Boosters, certain Implants, NPC goods, Pirate Faction Ships, etc. only available in lowsec. More criminal factions, not just Guristas, Blood Raiders, etc. I'm talking about the lowsec version of Hisec corps. Maybe they're associated with certain "normal" pirate groups, and thus they determine your rewards, but you wouldn't have to worry about killing, say, a Guristas rat and being denied a mission by a corp that is associated with them. Or at least be able to buy your way to mission status with them. After all, everyone wants more money, an a corp made of dirty pirates is no different. I like the idea of buying your way around things. Perhaps you can find a crooked member of Concord who will negate your 15 minute GCC...for a price. So if you paid them, say, 60 million isk, you could negate your GCC 3 times. Gate guns would still fire on you if you engage someone within their range, but once you warp away, they act like your GCC is up. Or maybe you can buy your way into a hisec system (a 0.5 or 0.6), without police harassing you. It could last a few days, or a week, or a month, depending on how much you pay. I think it would encourage people who want to try piracy a boost, especially those who don't have hauler alts. This way they could still make trips to the closest hisec system without fear of being attacked. Smuggling, smuggling, smuggling. Who doesn't want to be a dashing smuggler, ala Han Solo? Make ships that have concealed cargo holds, so you could run illegal goods around without attracting the attention of authorities. I love being a pirate, it's the most fun I've had in Eve...we just need some piratey lovin'. Yarr
Unity Black	Posted - 2010.02.04 10:44:00 - [73] I love the sound of all this, yeah som good some bad ideas here, but overall yeah, lowsec NEEDS this to be done. hmm... hidden cargo holds... maybe just small holds that cant be scanned, make a low slot that can only go on t2 transport ships that is a hidden hold? maybe just a few hundred M3 so cant be abused? Just used to carry smaller illegal items, like drugs and illegal implants? That also allows for hisec missions that require a trip to lowsec to pick up something illegal without the authorities getting you... And also for personal smuggling of course...
Giev Misstress	Posted - 2010.02.04 15:09:00 - [74] Sounds like a nice idea allround. Low sec needs some love .... and war . Supported. Buffering high sec with low sec is not a really good idea I think. Maybe a single point of high sec to high sec between races would be a sollution. Then it's either be suicide ganked or taking the risk going trough low sec. Checkpoint Charly I would love to have some sort of overlord like sov system in low sec. Sort of the ghetto's of eve . This system would make a lot of the battling between low sec occupants that is going on relevant. An upgrade system like the current sov system could be used to make low sec income a bit better risk vs reward. Having a way to make decent isk with professions in low sec would be nice. Being -10 does limit the options quite a bit as to regarding smuggling to high sec. Creating a market for illigal and pirate faction stuff limited to low sec sounds nice but I have no idea what the impact will be. Given the fact that everything can still be contracted I am not sure the market would be used that much. Buying your GCC (partialy) off would be nice. Depending on the offence the bribe could be lower or higher. For example shooting a bantam with your mega should incurr a higher bribe than shooting a mega with your mega. Having pirate faction agents in low sec would be very nice. A full yes for this. I definately would take the risk involved with missioning in low sec to get access to slave implants for instance.
Concubinia Scarlett	Posted - 2010.02.04 16:45:00 - [75] Nice ideas, me likes. Opening up lowsec to actualy make it worth going to can only be a good thing in my book.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.06 09:00:00 - [76] keep the lowsec love coming in... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Tason Hyena Minmatar Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.02.06 11:46:00 - [77] 1. What criteria would be used to tell who dominates a system? How would you also make it lucrative enough to encourage dominating, but not enough to get the 0.0 people coming in? 2. So pirates can be probed out and ganked in lowsec too? 3. Problem is you need to agree to have a neutral trade hub in lowsec so a market can exist. This being lowsec, good luck. 4. You want to nerf pirate ships? 5. I support this. 6. What is the point? More rats but ones you can bribe? 7. You'd get bottlenecks camped to hell and an end to cross region trade. Needs more work.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.06 17:12:00 - [78] Edited by: Rico Minali on 06/02/2010 17:14:48 yep, it needs more work, alot more work, thats why we want ideas and feedback. 1, occupancy could be a factor, sheer numbers, but yeah its hard to figure how it would work out.. 2: pirates probe each other out and gank each other all he time. Most combat in lowsec is actually outlaw verses outlaw anyway. 3: doesnt have to be a neutral trade hub, teh market exists everywhere in hisec, the black market wouldexist everywhere in lowsec, Hubs would eventually evolve and probably be by some bad ass big alliance who may 'keep it neutral'? 4: just an idea... not very popular, but better than no ideas here 6: as above. just ideas to get an immersive feel... 7: yeah this ine, while realistic is not popular... If theres something youd like to see in lowsec (and no not safety to make isk) get an idea up here. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.06 22:02:00 - [79] Originally by: Rico Minali 7: yeah this ine, while realistic is not popular... Not really realistic. We have a cold war (the low sec areas where FW fight are equivalent of the bush wars in nations like Viet-Nam, Afghanistan or the other 3rd world countries where wars were fought by proxy during the cold war). High sec to high sec gates are the equivalent of moving from west Germany to est Germany or from Italy to Yugoslav. Passages full of frontiers guards and were breaking the law will get a ton of bricks on your head. Currently we don't have a direct war between the empires.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2010.02.06 23:25:00 - [80] Originally by: Tason Hyena 2. So pirates can be probed out and ganked in lowsec too? pirates do missions in low sec as it is...now they would be able to do missions for...pirates...it'd be much cooler Quote: 3. Problem is you need to agree to have a neutral trade hub in lowsec so a market can exist. This being lowsec, good luck. what? are you implying CCP dictates where trade hubs are? trade hubs definitely naturally. Black market hubs would develop in populated areas/high transit areas/etc. as for neutral...I assume you mean "safe." Anyone can dock anywhere in low sec. Anyone can also undock and not get ganked if they have more than half a brain (hint: instawarp undock). Quote: You'd get bottlenecks camped to hell and an end to cross region trade. interregional trade would have appropriate risk...also, ideally there would be a dozen or more "chokepoints"...oh and boost to regional markets, hurray! Quote: Needs more work. I think the idea is to generate ideas and support. _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.02.07 06:58:00 - [81] Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 07/02/2010 06:58:00 yes, except for #4, as well one way to get pirate items is by killing pirates. plus if empires were like that you would get attacked for flying a domi in caldari space.
Ard UnjiiGo The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.02.07 20:28:00 - [82] Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 07/02/2010 20:37:01 Supporting general idea of rework of low-sec. Some of the ideas mentioned need a great deal more thought and should only be implemented with a high confidence it would actually get the result desired. Fragmenting high sec is actually the best idea of the bunch. Yes, it would apply pressure to high sec citizens which is what they need to start solving their own problems. It would have several side benefits too, not the least is breaking the Jita strangle hold on the market. Perpetual gate camp at high/low border gate? Why don't high sec dwellers organize and smash the camp in the teeth more? Because it's easier to whine or go somewhere else than to organize. High-sec pockets would create more incentive for interdependence and cooperation among high sec denizens. I only hope that CCP carefully weighes any low-sec "boost" carefully against 0.0 so that it doesn't become just as attractive, or nearly so, for large alliances to get territorial in low-sec. Would ruin the flavor of low-sec. I'm in low-sec for solo and small gang fights. FW has brought enough blobbery to low-sec. On the whole, as a low-sec resident since my second day playing, low-sec is fine in my estimation. Not really sure it needs anything but willing to see CCP explore tweaks that won't break it. PS - I very rarely have ever camped a gate and never used smart bombs. Some of you whiners need to buy a freaking clue about what life is really like in low-sec.
Tason Hyena Minmatar Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.02.07 23:16:00 - [83] Quote: what? are you implying CCP dictates where trade hubs are? trade hubs definitely naturally. Black market hubs would develop in populated areas/high transit areas/etc. as for neutral...I assume you mean "safe." Anyone can dock anywhere in low sec. Anyone can also undock and not get ganked if they have more than half a brain (hint: instawarp undock). except that you have to actually make that instawarp undock, and it's not hard to gate camp in lowsec if you can tank the guns. Look at suicide ganking-when the means and targets exist, people rise up and do it. Trade hubs only rise when there is safety, and safety requires neutrality. If you have an area where everyone is shoot on sight, people will shun it, even if a few people take the risk. You wont get the critical mass of transactions to reach true hub status unless some type of pirate CVA exists. That's the whole problem with lowsec. I don't see how even with a black market it will change that. Quote: Fragmenting high sec is actually the best idea of the bunch. Yes, it would apply pressure to high sec citizens which is what they need to start solving their own problems. It would have several side benefits too, not the least is breaking the Jita strangle hold on the market. Perpetual gate camp at high/low border gate? Why don't high sec dwellers organize and smash the camp in the teeth more? Because it's easier to whine or go somewhere else than to organize. High-sec pockets would create more incentive for interdependence and cooperation among high sec denizens. Maybe its the ability not to be dependent that people find attractive about it. Maybe they don't want to have to constantly smash blockades to let people get through, or ask people to do so. I think this is more about you wanting carebear targets though. If hi-sec dwellers organized a huge blob, and swept amanake till all the pirates gave up and quit, that wont really benefit you all.
Ard UnjiiGo The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.02.08 00:52:00 - [84] Tason, let's think about this. Fragmenting High-sec will mean: 1) There will be more entry points into low-sec. 2) There are very few semi-permanent gatecamps on these border gates now. A lot less than high-sec huggers imagine. 3) More entry points through low-sec and ways to get from point A to point B will mean less chance of running into these camps. Less rookie and newer pilots will have their first experience with low-sec result in a nasty explosion. 4) More ways to enter low-sec will spread the traffic meaning that the relatively few "professional" campers will see less profit for their time spent camping. Boredom ensues. More "professional" campers rediscover joy of solo and small gang pirating. Ard reejoices! 5) True, many high-sec denizens live in high-sec because they are crippled with risk aversion. This will never change. They won't cross the 3 or 5 low-sec systems to get from Rens to Jita no matter what. 5) This will strengthen other markets at Jita's expense. It will free the other lesser hubs from adjusting their prices so much based on Jita. It will improve what's available around EVE instead of such a high concentration of goods in Jita. Good traders, industrialists and miners will rejoice. Those willing to travel through low-sec to get the best prices will thrive while the risk averse will be penalized. 6)It will encourage entrepreneurial traders to stock low-sec: "Hey, I gotta go through there (low-sec) anyway to make 10% more in Jita. I might as well just put my goods on the market there and reap 25 to 75% more profit off the ebil piwates." TLDR: Fragmenting High-Sec creates more "edge". This will reduce predation by spreading the wolves out further. Fragmenting High-Sec will take our "gloablized" market back a step or two which will be good for the smart small businessman. Fragmenting High-Sec will likely strengthen bonds between high-sec corps by making their perceived universe a bit smaller. PS - I get plenty of targets as it stands. You won't find a post on EVE-O where I have ever complained about targets despite living in low-sec for over 2 1/2 years and making my living almost exclusively from pirating. When I comment on these types of threads it's from a perspective of what would improve the game and not my own narrow self-interests. Don't mistake me for a high-sec carebear again please.
Tsear Shadowstalker	Posted - 2010.02.08 01:06:00 - [85] I would love to see lowsec get some love. The black market in particular seems interesting. One possible way to further this idea would be to have factions in Empire Space impose a tax on all market transactions, a tax that is not present in lowsec. This would further encourage players to buy/sell in lowsec, as the increased tax-free gains could offset the inevitable ship losses traders would suffer.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2010.02.08 02:17:00 - [86] Originally by: Tason Hyena Trade hubs only rise when there is safety, and safety requires neutrality. If you have an area where everyone is shoot on sight, people will shun it, even if a few people take the risk. You wont get the critical mass of transactions to reach true hub status unless some type of pirate CVA exists. so no trade hubs exist in NPC 0.0? I think you might want to take a closer look... and if the black market is made to be the only place pirate/deadspace modules and pirate ships are able to be traded...yeah hubs will definitely form Quote: I think this is more about you wanting carebear targets though. If hi-sec dwellers organized a huge blob, and swept amanake till all the pirates gave up and quit, that wont really benefit you all. I love when people make assumptions like this. Check this character and the ceo of the corp. Neither are pirates. Nice try though Also, the day hi-sec dwellers mob through low sec pirate hubs will indeed be a day to behold. _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
Klyria Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.02.08 02:49:00 - [87] Lowsec needs some loving, and any number of these ideas would help.
Tason Hyena Minmatar Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.02.08 03:28:00 - [88] Increasing lowsec participation hasn't worked. It didn't work with factional warfare, it hasn't with the gallente mission lines, and it hasn't with pirate missions. Fragmenting hi-sec is just going to be one more failed initiative because it just will reduce secure space while keeping current pirate activity the same or more. Unless CCP creates new star routes or systems, we wont see an increase in routes large enough over distance to enable what you want ard. A lot of the exits to empire systems lead to culdesacs of space, and it's more or less constant in terms of route potential. People wont stock lowsec for the same reasons they dont currently-the places with the best markets have the highest risk, and there's only so much you can mark up goods without pirates stocking themselves. It's not like we don't have lowsec areas with market potential already. You are also going to drop mining and missioning production as the amount of harvestable systems decrease, and that's going to be reflected in cost. Regional markets are a bad thing, because making the travelling hard makes systems insanely vulnerable to predatory markups. The game works as is in regards to security space in my opinion. If you want to make lowsec sort of a 0.0/empire hybrid that's okay, but trying to carve empire to force people into lowsec is not going to achieve any of the aims listed.
De Guantanamo	Posted - 2010.02.08 04:56:00 - [89] Edited by: De Guantanamo on 08/02/2010 04:57:35 Originally by: Tason Hyena Regional markets are a bad thing, because making the travelling hard makes systems insanely vulnerable to predatory markups. And this is where your stupidity shows. Regional markets bad? Markups bad? WTF? Someone doesn't like the concept of free trade. If you have nothing constructive to add, stop posting in this thread. Your posts screams "LEAVE US HIGH SEC GUYS ALONE, I WANT 100% SECURITY AND DON'T CARE ABOUT IF LOW SEC GETS HELP." We get it, you don't like the ideas. Unless you have some alternatives, stfu.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.08 09:22:00 - [90] lets not make this an argument thread please. There are several misconceptions about lowsec that hisec people make, the main one being they think lowsec people want hisec people to come there to be ganked. This is pretty much totally wrong. Some pirates wouldlike to get more kills on gatecamps yeah. BUT for the most part lowsec entities are fightin each other on a day to day basis, mostly we dont give a rats ass if carebears dont come down... This thread is about creating a better environment for those people, the people who live in lowsec. I also have lived in lowsec for years, I AM a pirate, but if you look at my corps stats, 99% of the kills are combat ships, pvp fitted by OTHER lowsec entities. So, lets keep this on track and not make an argument thread. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.08 11:01:00 - [91] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 08/02/2010 11:04:11 Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo 1) There will be more entry points into low-sec. Maybe, but probably true only in a very limited way (i.e. where 2 usable routes are more than 1). Quote: 2) There are very few semi-permanent gatecamps on these border gates now. A lot less than high-sec huggers imagine. Again only a half truth. There are semi permanent gatecamps in almost all systems that see a decent level of traffic. The frequency of gatecamps increase with the frequency of passages. Remove the high sec routes that connect then empires and add a few low sec routes and those routes will be camped. Quote: 3) More entry points through low-sec and ways to get from point A to point B will mean less chance of running into these camps. Less rookie and newer pilots will have their first experience with low-sec result in a nasty explosion. And again a half truth. Rookie and newer pilots will follow the autopilot, i.e. the shortest route, making it the most used. guess where the gatecamp will be? Quote: 4) More ways to enter low-sec will spread the traffic meaning that the relatively few "professional" campers will see less profit for their time spent camping. Boredom ensues. More "professional" campers rediscover joy of solo and small gang pirating or PvPing. Ard rejoices! And again the same half truth. Quote: 5) True, many high-sec denizens live in high-sec because they are crippled with risk aversion. This will never change. They won't cross 3 or 5 low-sec systems to get from Rens to Jita no matter what. Little interest in PvP is different from risk aversion. Quote: 6) This will strengthen other markets at Jita's expense. It will free the other lesser hubs from adjusting their prices so much based on Jita. It will improve what's available around EVE instead of such a high concentration of goods in Jita. Good traders, industrialists and miners will rejoice. Those willing to travel through low-sec to get the best prices will thrive while the risk averse will be penalized. Maybe. Quote: 7)It will encourage entrepreneurial traders to stock low-sec: "Hey, I gotta go through there (low-sec) anyway to make 10% more in Jita. I might as well just put my goods on the market there and reap 25 to 75% more profit off the ebil piwates." LOL. You have a very strange idea about how trading work. A serious trader will not block 30 sell orders to cover a low sec station where he will see at most 1 of his orders move every day. To make a hub you need a location where at least hundreds of orders move every day. Quote: 8) Oh yeah...macroers and afk autopiloters will cry rivers of tears. In your dreams. Macroers will not care. AFK autopiloters with a little experience will simply select to always avoid low sec. Quote: TLDR: Fragmenting High-Sec creates more "edge". This will reduce predation by spreading the wolves out further. Fragmenting High-Sec will take our "gloablized" market back a step or two which will be good for the smart small businessman. Fragmenting High-Sec will likely strengthen bonds between high-sec corps by making their perceived universe a bit smaller. PS - I get plenty of targets as it stands. You won't find a post on EVE-O where I have ever complained about targets despite living in low-sec for over 2 1/2 years and making my living almost exclusively from pirating. When I comment on these types of threads it's from a perspective of what would improve the game and not my own narrow self-interests. Don't mistake me for a high-sec carebear again please. LOL. No, we take you for a low sec gankbear. "Get me more easy targets." What is best for you is not automatically best for the game. Originally by: XXSketchxx so no trade hubs exist in NPC 0.0? I think you might want to take a closer look... Unless your definition of trade hub is very different from mine, no, there aren't trade hubs in low sec.
Ard UnjiiGo The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.02.08 13:24:00 - [92] Venkul, you continue to post a lot of words on these forums to say the same thing over and over again: "I don't get EVE." Carry on.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2010.02.08 13:54:00 - [93] Edited by: XXSketchxx on 08/02/2010 13:54:48 Originally by: Venkul Mul Unless your definition of trade hub is very different from mine, no, there aren't trade hubs in low sec. Read again moron. I implied there are trade hubs in NPC 0.0, which there are (I understand a high sec pubbie like yourself would not know this). I then went on to imply that if there were a dedicated black market, the only place for pirate shisp/modules/implants to be sold, hubs would form in low sec. Nowhere did I say there are hubs currently in low sec. Nice try at reading comprehension though. Keep on whining about how scary low sec is. _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
TimMc Gallente Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.02.08 15:19:00 - [94] Edited by: TimMc on 08/02/2010 15:21:13 Make npcs fight like sleepers and require pvp fits to fight. both plexes and belts. means pirates don't get a free ride whenever we find someone in a belt. As much as I like the idea of pirate ships/fittings being illegal, surely there will be so many tears in highsec when carebears get concorded for having a dread guristas fitted golem. Boosting the income from lowsec finally would be good. Alot of exploration sites that are almost of the grade of un-upgraded nullsec. Need more level 4 agents aswell. Corrupt corporations also would be interesting. With a high enough corp standing, they would ignore aggression near their station and should give benefits for continued base in their station (agents availible to all corp members, reduced cost for manufacture/research/office/contracts). However navy sentries should never ignore aggression. Edit: Removing highsec links between at war factions would also be a good idea. Don't know why caldari/amarr to gallente/minmatar would have safe links to eachother. Links between friendly factions should be few but present. Hopefully this create a more empire divide than their is now.
Butzewutze	Posted - 2010.02.08 15:20:00 - [95] I support this idea!
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.08 18:46:00 - [96] Originally by: TimMc Corrupt corporations also would be interesting. With a high enough corp standing, they would ignore aggression near their station and should give benefits for continued base in their station (agents availible to all corp members, reduced cost for manufacture/research/office/contracts). However navy sentries should never ignore aggression. Corrupt corporations.. Hmm, maybe some of the corps could have ties to some criminal corps, maybe Creodron could supply Serpentis lp rewards at a higher price... that kind of thing too. And yeah paying off a corporation so their sentries dont fire at your alliance... But I agree navy/gate sentries should always act properly. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Boss Lemming BOUNTY. HUNTER. MINING. EXSPLORATION. CORPORATION. HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.02.08 20:21:00 - [97] Originally by: Venkul Mul hurr durr This is what highsec humpers actually believe
De Guantanamo	Posted - 2010.02.08 20:40:00 - [98] Originally by: Boss Lemming Originally by: Venkul Mul hurr durr This is what highsec humpers actually believe Classic. Oh and supporting boost to low sec fo sho.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.08 22:23:00 - [99] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 08/02/2010 22:24:51 Originally by: XXSketchxx Edited by: XXSketchxx on 08/02/2010 13:54:48 Originally by: Venkul Mul Unless your definition of trade hub is very different from mine, no, there aren't trade hubs in low sec. Read again moron. I implied there are trade hubs in NPC 0.0, which there are (I understand a high sec pubbie like yourself would not know this). I then went on to imply that if there were a dedicated black market, the only place for pirate shisp/modules/implants to be sold, hubs would form in low sec. Nowhere did I say there are hubs currently in low sec. Nice try at reading comprehension though. Keep on whining about how scary low sec is. So your definition of "trade hub" is a station in Delve with 30 costumers in a day? You see, I have spent 1 year there and know very how "trade hubs" in 0.0 work. Translation for your intellect: those aren't hubs they are very small local markets. Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo Venkul, you continue to post a lot of words on these forums to say the same thing over and over again: "I don't get EVE." Carry on. No, I am saying "I don't want to play EVE your way". And find pretty fastidious your attempts to force me to play how you want.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.02.08 23:02:00 - [100] Edited by: Jin Nib on 08/02/2010 23:02:14 Originally by: Venkul Mul So your definition of "trade hub" is a station in Delve with 30 costumers in a day? You see, I have spent 1 year there and know very how "trade hubs" in 0.0 work. Translation for your intellect: those aren't hubs they are very small local markets. How is this an argument against trying to stimulate the low sec market so that it develops trade centers? Quote: No, I am saying "I don't want to play EVE your way". And find pretty fastidious your attempts to force me to play how you want. Way to mangle a sentence. You're idea of being forced into anything is a simple diversion with no basis. None of the ideas here are forcing you into to low sec and don’t affect high sec (except for the pirate ship limit which was pretty much thrown out). As such your continued presence in the thread is somewhat baffling. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with high-sec. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Commoner Caldari The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.02.08 23:23:00 - [101] Originally by: Rico Minali lets not make this an argument thread please. There are several misconceptions about lowsec that hisec people make, the main one being they think lowsec people want hisec people to come there to be ganked. This is pretty much totally wrong. Some pirates wouldlike to get more kills on gatecamps yeah. BUT for the most part lowsec entities are fightin each other on a day to day basis, mostly we dont give a rats ass if carebears dont come down... This thread is about creating a better environment for those people, the people who live in lowsec. I also have lived in lowsec for years, I AM a pirate, but if you look at my corps stats, 99% of the kills are combat ships, pvp fitted by OTHER lowsec entities. So, lets keep this on track and not make an argument thread. Well to make a living off piracy, you'd need a few of those once in a while. Living off T2 droppings doesn't work all that well if you lose a ship now and then.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.09 01:31:00 - [102] Originally by: Jin Nib Edited by: Jin Nib on 08/02/2010 23:02:14 Originally by: Venkul Mul So your definition of "trade hub" is a station in Delve with 30 costumers in a day? You see, I have spent 1 year there and know very how "trade hubs" in 0.0 work. Translation for your intellect: those aren't hubs they are very small local markets. How is this an argument against trying to stimulate the low sec market so that it develops trade centers? It is a reply about using 0.0 trade as an example of "developed" trade hubs. Originally by: XXSketchxx so no trade hubs exist in NPC 0.0? I think you might want to take a closer look... Clear now? Quote: Quote: No, I am saying "I don't want to play EVE your way". And find pretty fastidious your attempts to force me to play how you want. Way to mangle a sentence. You're idea of being forced into anything is a simple diversion with no basis. None of the ideas here are forcing you into to low sec and donÆt affect high sec (except for the pirate ship limit which was pretty much thrown out). As such your continued presence in the thread is somewhat baffling. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with high-sec. So breaking the high sec connection between empires has nothing to do with high sec? Removing those routes is not forcing me to use low sec routes to trade? At least read the posts to wich I am replying.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.09 01:59:00 - [103] Originally by: Commoner There are several misconceptions about lowsec that hisec people make, the main one being they think lowsec people want hisec people to come there to be ganked. This is pretty much totally wrong. Some pirates wouldlike to get more kills on gatecamps yeah. BUT for the most part lowsec entities are fightin each other on a day to day basis, mostly we dont give a rats ass if carebears dont come down... This thread is about creating a better environment for those people, the people who live in lowsec. I also have lived in lowsec for years, I AM a pirate, but if you look at my corps stats, 99% of the kills are combat ships, pvp fitted by OTHER lowsec entities. quote] Well to make a living off piracy, you'd need a few of those once in a while. Living off T2 droppings doesn't work all that well if you lose a ship now and then. Yep, and that is a problem, however, with the ideas in this thread and so on, maybe pirates can actually make some isk in lowsec too, and not by ganking carebears. though to be honest carebears usually have such failures of boats the drops are rubbish anyway, the most isk we ever make is from faction fitted pvp boats, capitals and killing pos's, and that is way out of carebear jurisdiction... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.02.09 02:53:00 - [104] Edited by: Jin Nib on 09/02/2010 02:53:33 Originally by: Venkul Mul So breaking the high sec connection between empires has nothing to do with high sec? Removing those routes is not forcing me to use low sec routes to trade? At least read the posts to wich I am replying. Actually the idea was to maintain high-sec tunnels through low-sec borders. And I'm not the one with trouble understanding what it is you are replying to, you are. You cant seem to maintain your concentration past the post immediately in front of you. As for what you are replying to: Quote: 7)It will encourage entrepreneurial traders to stock low-sec: "Hey, I gotta go through there (low-sec) anyway to make 10% more in Jita. I might as well just put my goods on the market there and reap 25 to 75% more profit off the ebil piwates." Quote: LOL. You have a very strange idea about how trading work. A serious trader will not block 30 sell orders to cover a low sec station where he will see at most 1 of his orders move every day. To make a hub you need a location where at least hundreds of orders move every day. In other words this is the way the argument is going: Some-guy: It will help stimulate the economy. You: No, they don't have trade hubs out there because hubs are big. You've made the same argument with xxSketchxx. Notice how what you are talking about has nothing to do with the topic at hand? Notice that you aren't actually presenting any sort of coherent argument or case what so ever? -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.09 07:30:00 - [105] Originally by: Jin Nib Edited by: Jin Nib on 09/02/2010 02:53:33 Originally by: Venkul Mul So breaking the high sec connection between empires has nothing to do with high sec? Removing those routes is not forcing me to use low sec routes to trade? At least read the posts to wich I am replying. Actually the idea was to maintain high-sec tunnels through low-sec borders. False. The post was about "Fragmenting High-sec" and that don't include high sec tunnels. Originally by: Jin Nib And I'm not the one with trouble understanding what it is you are replying to, you are. You cant seem to maintain your concentration past the post immediately in front of you. As for what you are replying to: Quote: 7)It will encourage entrepreneurial traders to stock low-sec: "Hey, I gotta go through there (low-sec) anyway to make 10% more in Jita. I might as well just put my goods on the market there and reap 25 to 75% more profit off the ebil piwates." Quote: LOL. You have a very strange idea about how trading work. A serious trader will not block 30 sell orders to cover a low sec station where he will see at most 1 of his orders move every day. To make a hub you need a location where at least hundreds of orders move every day. In other words this is the way the argument is going: Some-guy: It will help stimulate the economy. You: No, they don't have trade hubs out there because hubs are big. You've made the same argument with xxSketchxx. Notice how what you are talking about has nothing to do with the topic at hand? Notice that you aren't actually presenting any sort of coherent argument or case what so ever? Jib, maybe you missed it, but it is already possible to sell in low sec. Simply for people that trade more that a few pieces it is not interesting as the buyers are too few. Making it a bit more difficult to move between the empire will not change that in any way. No one will stop in low sec to buy the module he desperately need. Pirates will still use alts to buy stuff in high sec at low prices, maybe in a regional hub instead of Jita, but that would simply increase the size of the high sec regional hubs. 0.0 people will still buy from a hub in high sec and cyno the stuff to 0.0 as ssoon as they leave high sec. Can you give a real reason why fragmenting the empires would increase low sec trade?
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.09 10:30:00 - [106] drop the discussion, this isnt an argument thread, there are alot of ideas here, sop concentrating on the one that you dont like... It is an ideas thread, lets keep it at that. Im not goingto delete out ideas because a few people dont like it. The idea here is to talk through ideas, you have had your say on what you do or dont like, now drop that and move on. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2010.02.09 16:27:00 - [107] Originally by: Rico Minali The idea here is to talk through ideas, you have had your say on what you do or dont like, now drop that and move on. The whole point of this forum section is to do just that. Nitpick at proposed ideas, particularly bad ones that need more work. We both know no one will 'drop it'. --------------- 10/10: Where is your God now?
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.02.09 16:53:00 - [108] Edited by: Bagehi on 09/02/2010 16:53:20 Improving low sec is a good thing. Making it a middle ground between the mining/missioning of high sec and the sov wars of 0.0 would be perfect. This is a good idea as long as the flip side is also true. Whereas outlaws can build their empire of drugs, sex, rock-n-roll, and piracy, the cuddly carebear lovers (affectionately known as anti-pirates) should also be able to build up something similar but opposite to the piracy boost. Fix Local
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2010.02.09 17:05:00 - [109] Venkul you are a moron. There are a market hubs in npc 0.0. Obviously they dont have Jita prices. Thats what you pay for by shopping in 0.0 Stop posting _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.02.09 17:20:00 - [110] Originally by: XXSketchxx Venkul you are a moron. There are a market hubs in npc 0.0. Obviously they dont have Jita prices. Thats what you pay for by shopping in 0.0 Stop posting Amusingly enough, many 0.0 market hubs have prices that beat most high sec prices. It has to do with the number of players per station. 0.0 simply has a lot of players per station (except in CVA space). Fix Local
Mynxee Hellcats HellFleet	Posted - 2010.02.10 20:47:00 - [111] Supporting the good discussion here about making low sec a unique and viable place in its own right. Bump It! \| My Blog: Life in Low Sec
Swarthy Avenger	Posted - 2010.02.11 00:08:00 - [112] Sorry, but OUTLAW is just a horrible name for an Eve expansion. Consider the past expansion names: Castor Exodus Exodus: Cold War Exodus: Red Moon Rising Bloodlines Revelations I & II Trinity Empyrean Age Quantum Rise Apocrypha Dominion Outlaw just doesn't really fit in. Nemesis Would be my vote for an appropriate name for an expansion dealing with New Eden's criminal underground.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2010.02.11 01:05:00 - [113] Originally by: Swarthy Avenger Nemesis Would be my vote for an appropriate name for an expansion dealing with New Eden's criminal underground. Corruption _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.11 09:06:00 - [114] Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 09/02/2010 16:53:20 Improving low sec is a good thing. Making it a middle ground between the mining/missioning of high sec and the sov wars of 0.0 would be perfect. This is a good idea as long as the flip side is also true. Whereas outlaws can build their empire of drugs, sex, rock-n-roll, and piracy, the cuddly carebear lovers (affectionately known as anti-pirates) should also be able to build up something similar but opposite to the piracy boost. Exactly this, it isnt a piracy boost, its a lowsec boost, whatever you do in lowsec. And yeah Outlaw isnt the best name but the name wasnt important, getting it noticed and acted on is! Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Swarthy Avenger	Posted - 2010.02.11 17:23:00 - [115] Originally by: Rico Minali And yeah Outlaw isnt the best name but the name wasnt important, getting it noticed and acted on is! Of course. I've already supported this thread on my main. Guess I should support it on this alt too.
Viridiana Sovari	Posted - 2010.02.13 11:37:00 - [116] Edited by: Viridiana Sovari on 13/02/2010 11:37:39 Great ideas all round, some might not be poplular, but your nevre going to make everyone happy. Making the game a wholelot more interesting is more important than keeping one type of player happy. Fully supported, lowsec needs a big boost, and not to faction warfare...
Jon Engel Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.02.13 14:12:00 - [117] One of the things I have always wanted to see was Pirate NPC stations in Lowsec. Not a lot of them, and of course no agents so people can run Pirate missions in lowsec without bothering to travel to 0.0. Maybe you gotta scan them down or something and then you can dock up and do some stuff. I would just like to see more "black market" stuff going on in Lowsec associated with pirate npcs. Maybe Syndicate or Angels or Serpentis keep a station in Placid and sell Narcotics to pod pilots who take them to other Stations and sell them. Or Sansha's raid lowsec planets for slaves and sell them to pod pilots who have to smuggle them to Amarr or Khanid or even other Sansha stations in 0.0 for resale. All in all, lowsec is becoming nothing more than a stomping ground for FW corps. Less of this and more of the underworld schtuff that I think everyone wants to see.
Suedomza Ralav	Posted - 2010.02.13 16:42:00 - [118] Off the wall ideas to improve lowsec 1. Change gateguns. Make several different types, each targeting different sized ships. The guns hit for different damage, depending on their preferred target size. Frig guns only target frigs and bigger, and do less damage. BS guns hit for huge damage, but only attack BS and caps. Each gate has a different mix of these guns, depending on sec status. A .4 system would have a mix of all guns, while a .1 might only have 1 or 2 of the frig or cruisers sizes, and be heavily loaded with anti-bs and anti-cap guns. 2. Make different security levels mean something. .4 does not allow cynos, .3 allows anchoring of certain sec dependent POS mods (like now), .2 removes sec-status hit for killing anyone with negative status, .1 removes all sec-status hits. 3. Remove killmails. 4. Remove all market taxes in low-sec 5. Have several "industry" centers in each region with 5x the regular number of manufacture, copy, invention, and research slots. 6. drastically increase wormhole generation in low-sec. Have wormholes be several times more likely in a low-sec system them hi-sec or 0.0 7. Introduce exploration combat sites with decent rewards, and the NPCs use sleeper AI. They may switch targets and attack any incoming pirates, instead of the PVE player being easily killed because they take all the damage from the NPCs and the player pirates.
Khors Amtek Inc	Posted - 2010.02.13 21:55:00 - [119] I approve of these suggestions. -
CyberGh0st Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.02.16 20:49:00 - [120] Edited by: CyberGh0st on 16/02/2010 20:52:50 Originally by: Rico Minali Edited by: Rico Minali on 30/01/2010 11:20:11 Edited by: Rico Minali on 11/01/2010 18:12:02 Also to Empire Dweller, since I cant quote 2 people at once... So this is about his smartbomb rubbish too. Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Rico Minali TL, DR: make pirating easier Low sec problem is that pirating is easy. It is extremely easy to find targets (if they are there) and kill them if they aren't there searching for a fight. So most people that is not interested in pirating spend as little time as possible in low sec. So making pirating even easier will not help you. It will simply push even more people away from low sec. Here go the hisec emo boys.. If you read the post, it is not about pirating you rich folk of hisec, its about making lowsec a better playing environment for those who WANT to live there. If you dont want risk, dont go to lowsec, it isnt as though hisec is small... Also, I have never lit a smartbomb in my life, Ive never even fitted one, check my corp on battleclinic if you like, you will see it full of combat ships flown by combat organisations. And they wont be in the losses section, so please be quiet on this one. So, can we have comments and ideas from the people who live in lowsec, not the ones whod like to make it safe. Agreed, I see some cool suggestions in the OP. Edit : besides changing Empire space and adding lowsec between the 4 empires, I don't like that. http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE
eliminator2	Posted - 2010.02.16 22:19:00 - [121] sounds well thought and good ideas i like the black market and the own system idea ----------------------------------------------- I met Eliminator1..... I chewed it up, and spat it out. Now, he is my minion. I kill miners and mission runners people say, I call them target pra
Red Raider Caldari Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's	Posted - 2010.02.17 01:04:00 - [122] Originally by: Rico Minali 1: Criminal underworld, similar to 0.0 sov, recognition should be given to the 'overlords' who dominate systems, some sort of benefits may be 'bought' with underhand payments to authorities, such as the rats in a system may notengage unless fired upon, or reduced facility rates, offices etc. Meh... Originally by: Rico Minali 2: Criminal Faction agents for missions. Meh... Originally by: Rico Minali 3: The BlackMarket, have a market that can ONLY be accessed when in lowsec, and with items that can ONLY be sold on the black market. All 'illegal' items moved onto this market. Maybe with npc smuggling items too. Create more illegal items to load onto the market. More drugs, maybe illegal implants... see also 4. This I like except here is the deal. Tie security status, faction status, and new skills to getting scanned for illegal goods at the gate and station(as long as it's not a pirate faction station). Then make it so pirate faction implant, ammo, module, etc. rewards require the purchaser to have favorable standing with that faction, LP, and a tier 1 version of the item in question. Great now you as a pirate have taken a Occular Standard and changed it into a Crystal Delta(?) but your sec status and faction standing is so low you can't get through the gate. Now you need high sec pukes with high standing to haul it to high sec if they want there goodies to pew pew missions. Once implanted it's undetectable but until then you are barred from docking at any non-pirate stations or using gates. You want to see people start killing each other for ISK make them guard a hauler full of hacked imps. Originally by: Rico Minali 4: Pirate faction ships and items become illegal in hisec, so whilest usable in hisec, become available only through the black market.... Nope Originally by: Rico Minali 5: Make better smuggling oportunities, with these illegal items, make a smuggling proffesion more viable. See 3. Originally by: Rico Minali 6: crooked cops, have random faction npcs for that region wander lowsec, looking for payoffs.. hand over a little isk to go free, or fight them..Maybe the overlord can see to it that these crooked cops dont interfere with their people... Meh Originally by: Rico Minali 7: Have lowsec borders between all the empires, or at least the empires who are at war, so there is no 'safe' route for people, this way people would actually hire escort personel to protect haulers, another career opportunity. Smugglers would also be employed in such places... Not no but hell no this is just asking to kill empire dwellers and not even armed ones.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.18 10:40:00 - [123] could have shortened that post to 'dont like any of it except teh balck market' would have been easier lol. Anyway, keep it rolling guys, agree, disagree, whatever, but get the ideas in... WE NEED LOWSEC ATTENTION! Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Jared Ulfsuun	Posted - 2010.02.18 15:04:00 - [124] Supporting lowsec love in general, though I'm not so sure about the specifics. I... - like the black marked idea. - like the criminal faction idea. IMO NPC rats should not shoot at players if the player has a high standing with the faction. - like the smarter rats idea. IMO all lowsec PVE should require PVP-fits. Better fights all around. :) IMO: - Lowsec stations should be more differentiated: don't allow docking on hostile stations (depending on faction standing.) Add pirate stations that will not allow law-abiding citizens to dock. :) Possibly allow docking on hostile stations in exchange for a hefty fee. - Lowsec security status should depend on the actual (player-activity based) security or insecurity of the system, so 0.1 vs 0.4 would convey meaningful information. Make it depend on number of illegal aggressions per day, for example. - Role of local and alternative (new) intel tools should be considered. Lowsec can be improved without doing that, but I suspect intel changes could have a positive impact on lowsec. - There could be some flex in the security status assigment: some system should be able to flip from highsec to lowsec and vice versa depending on player activities. Anarchy could spread, or order could creep further. Mechanics are tricky, though -- neither 0.0 sov nor FW stuff seems right for the job. - Fixing bounties would boost lowsec. - Ransom mechanic would boost lowsec. (Eg. pay ransom into escrow, from where it is released after you jump, dock, or log off for longer than 15 minutes -- if you are destroyed before that you get the ransom back.)
Viktor Villiance Astrosemites Unlimited	Posted - 2010.02.18 16:15:00 - [125] I like the general "gist" of this (tee-hee). It was once thought that man could be trusted with the keys to his own destiny, but as it turns out, that destiny was to forever deny himself entry to that fate from the futile effort of ever-lasting
Xtover Suicide Kings	Posted - 2010.02.18 17:48:00 - [126] Originally by: Jared Ulfsuun Supporting lowsec love in general, though I'm not so sure about the specifics. I... - like the black marked idea. - like the criminal faction idea. IMO NPC rats should not shoot at players if the player has a high standing with the faction. - like the smarter rats idea. IMO all lowsec PVE should require PVP-fits. Better fights all around. :) IMO: - Lowsec stations should be more differentiated: don't allow docking on hostile stations (depending on faction standing.) Add pirate stations that will not allow law-abiding citizens to dock. :) Possibly allow docking on hostile stations in exchange for a hefty fee. - Lowsec security status should depend on the actual (player-activity based) security or insecurity of the system, so 0.1 vs 0.4 would convey meaningful information. Make it depend on number of illegal aggressions per day, for example. - Role of local and alternative (new) intel tools should be considered. Lowsec can be improved without doing that, but I suspect intel changes could have a positive impact on lowsec. - There could be some flex in the security status assigment: some system should be able to flip from highsec to lowsec and vice versa depending on player activities. Anarchy could spread, or order could creep further. Mechanics are tricky, though -- neither 0.0 sov nor FW stuff seems right for the job. - Fixing bounties would boost lowsec. - Ransom mechanic would boost lowsec. (Eg. pay ransom into escrow, from where it is released after you jump, dock, or log off for longer than 15 minutes -- if you are destroyed before that you get the ransom back.) To add, In 0.0 pirate faction sov space, the rats should be the empires. And second the notion on border zones fluctuating from just barely hisec to lowsec, i.e. .4-.5.... it would make trade more dynamic and also give flashy people something to do other than camp amamake, rancer, heir, or tama. you could also have more of those nice pirate arc missions, have missions include incursions that disrupt a system's security status.
Slade Hoo 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2010.02.18 17:49:00 - [127] Edited by: Slade Hoo on 18/02/2010 17:49:51 Living in lowsec i fully agree to the OP with his ideas. Will write some other stuff later..(don't have time now). I'll also add this thread to my signature! ------ Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum!
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.19 17:40:00 - [128] Some new ideas from people added to the initial post.. check em out. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
De Guantanamo	Posted - 2010.02.19 19:24:00 - [129] Quote: 8: New pos modules such as pleasure hubs and so on, could be you need to supply it with drugs/food/alcahol etc and in return it earns money. Would need to be limited to like 1 or 2 per pos though to avoid large pos 'super brothels' being built en-mass in systems to make huge isk. I can't express how much I love this idea. It needs some proper fleshing out and balancing notions (to prevent it becoming a massive isk fountain) but it really has some potential.
Sir Quentin Back to Yarrr	Posted - 2010.02.24 01:56:00 - [130] Edited by: Sir Quentin on 24/02/2010 01:56:32 My full support for lowsec boost! Also, Logistic Pilots shoudn`t be engaged by sentrys or loose sec status because of supporting an outlaw when in same corp. ---
Slimy Worm Vivicide Vivisection.	Posted - 2010.02.24 02:00:00 - [131] Edited by: Slimy Worm on 24/02/2010 02:00:56 Supported. Outlaw would be much better than the Tyrannis, also known as POS monkey. Plus lowsec needs something unique about it, not just increased risks significantly without increased rewards.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.02.24 02:26:00 - [132] Originally by: Slimy Worm Edited by: Slimy Worm on 24/02/2010 02:00:56 Supported. Outlaw would be much better than the Tyrannis, also known as POS monkey. Plus lowsec needs something unique about it, not just increased risks significantly without increased rewards. Except that they forced their own hand with Tyrannis by announcing Dust 514. Where as with low-sec and FW they know through experience they can let it languish and drift aimlessly with little of consequence to trouble themselves with. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Achilles deCronor	Posted - 2010.02.24 05:47:00 - [133] good ideas, low sec need it.
xirad	Posted - 2010.02.24 06:25:00 - [134] Edited by: xirad on 24/02/2010 06:25:57 I support the idea for a better lowsec
Kevinsblick	Posted - 2010.02.24 06:33:00 - [135] /signed Very good ideas!
Melissa Goodman	Posted - 2010.02.24 06:36:00 - [136] Although I am not a pirate, this idea has my full support.
Col Cherryman	Posted - 2010.02.24 06:57:00 - [137] Edited by: Col Cherryman on 24/02/2010 07:02:13 Edited by: Col Cherryman on 24/02/2010 06:57:14 good idea but dont touch ransoms! this is deal between victim and pirate other things... pirate faction agents should be stay in 0.0 and give LP for all outlaw players who killing players with 5.0 standing add to your idea my pirate scanner mate! http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1273662 [url=http://vu-du.org.pl/kb/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=39016][/url]
Scarlett2004	Posted - 2010.02.24 07:17:00 - [138] i support this product :)
RnY IX	Posted - 2010.02.24 08:10:00 - [139] Edited by: RnY IX on 24/02/2010 08:10:38 point 2, 3, 4, 5 and 7 totaly agree the rest is too much 0.0. low sec is empire. you cant claim empireregions or systems. and i dont see any reason to do it. the rest is a realy good system to boost low sec without hitting high- or nullsec. like it.
Agbaar	Posted - 2010.02.24 09:11:00 - [140] signed
Alex Stokes	Posted - 2010.02.24 09:57:00 - [141] Edited by: Alex Stokes on 24/02/2010 09:57:30 Many Ideas i do not realy like. But Low Sec NEEDS a boost! Much more than the stupid planetthing, so SIGNED.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.24 10:44:00 - [142] Please remember to tick the support button on your posts guys get lowsec the love it needs, and not in a FW kind of way... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Ace Avery Friends Of Harassment	Posted - 2010.02.24 10:54:00 - [143] sounds good We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Rage Starwalker Corpse Collection Point	Posted - 2010.02.24 10:56:00 - [144] Edited by: Rage Starwalker on 24/02/2010 10:56:34 Originally by: Sir Quentin Edited by: Sir Quentin on 24/02/2010 01:56:32 My full support for lowsec boost! Also, Logistic Pilots shoudn`t be engaged by sentrys or loose sec status because of supporting an outlaw when in same corp. I couldn't agree more! _________________________________________________ The bad guys just have more fun ;)
Vorlann	Posted - 2010.02.24 11:03:00 - [145] Right so. Vote for "outlaw".
CruxArc	Posted - 2010.02.24 11:32:00 - [146] Hell yeah!
Trefnis LOST IDEA C0VEN	Posted - 2010.02.24 11:42:00 - [147] voted
Col Cherryman V O O D O O Aegis Cartel	Posted - 2010.02.24 11:44:00 - [148] Edited by: Col Cherryman on 24/02/2010 11:45:45 Edited by: Col Cherryman on 24/02/2010 11:44:21 this is my old proposal, should be join to "Outlaw Project" This idea is only a sketch if you like it we do it jointly can this idea was already, I dont know my dream: Pirate npc corporations (for example : blood raiders, guristas pirates, angel cartels) would be avaliable only for the truth pirates (players who set creates a pirates). I'd like these npc agents to give pirates (the players with standing -10) missions where purpose would be another player player with a high standing, who makes missions against pirate npc corporation (blood raiders, guristas pirates, angel cartels ... etc) For example: if the player "Gothard'de Belle" will take mission where the aim will be blood vessels riders and if this mission will be in low sec or 0.0, then my npc pirate agent in the region that I am in, should immediately send me an e-mail that this person took such missions and blood riders ask me for help in getting rid of a striker If it was in another region then my npc pirate agent should give me a bookmark to my region's opened worm hole to "constellations" in which the player is taking a mission ... I know, I'll have a little time but glad to try :) as I get to this constellation then I will be scanning systems for a striker I should also have facilitated scanning the player on a mission as easy as it was in the safe spot this is dark side of eve alternatively players with high standing, a minimum of 5.0 should have access to agents npc concord if a player has a lower security status should not have access to these missions these agents could give bounty hunting missions for players agents bounty hunter story line should be in high sec bounty hunting mission objective should be a pirate (player) cooperating for the example with (the blood raiders, guristas pirates, angel cartels ... etc) bounty hunting missions should be available at the moment he accepts pirate player mission (assasinate) then the agent bounty hunter would give a bookmark to the worm hole that leads to a constellation of which may appear the pirate (pirate player) npc agents could assign bounty to pirates which eliminate player on their missions these agents could also propose to the player-pirate's victim to put some bounty on the pirate It would be a part of reward for bounty hunter who killed the pirate For a few days after taking the mission Bounty Hunters could receive messages from their concord agents about the location where the wanted pirate is currently docked
Mimma Lemnu	Posted - 2010.02.24 11:48:00 - [149] good ideas make low sec more interesting for everyone u can earn trillions in highsec, u can earn quadrillions in nosec but u only can earn earn peanuts in lowsec make the game overall better and boost lowsec!
RnY IX	Posted - 2010.02.24 11:50:00 - [150] support-button, right!
Tresenschlampe0815	Posted - 2010.02.24 11:53:00 - [151] Good ideas. Please make the lowsec a batter place
Ilunyr	Posted - 2010.02.24 11:53:00 - [152] 7: Have lowsec borders between all the empires, or at least the empires who are at war, so there is no 'safe' route for people, this way people would actually hire escort personel to protect haulers, another career opportunity. Smugglers would also be employed in such places... is the best part. 100% Support
Ashran Tarim	Posted - 2010.02.24 12:07:00 - [153]
Gavon Them	Posted - 2010.02.24 12:08:00 - [154] some good points!
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2010.02.24 12:17:00 - [155] I also would like to add that any standing changes should not be affected in 0.0. Basically if you don't take standings hits for killing people in 0.0 then you should not get a standings increase for killing rats there either.
Bosath Back to Yarrr	Posted - 2010.02.24 12:23:00 - [156] /signed Definately some interesting ideas here...
Helferle	Posted - 2010.02.24 12:29:00 - [157]
Dec Apilatour Czarna Kompania	Posted - 2010.02.24 12:35:00 - [158] Edited by: Dec Apilatour on 24/02/2010 12:36:06 Edited by: Dec Apilatour on 24/02/2010 12:35:29 +
Testingcubed	Posted - 2010.02.24 12:55:00 - [159] A little late to this game but here goes anyway. While I agree that low sec needs some love most of the ideas presented here simply don't seem that useful to me. The best way to get people into low sec is to give them an incentive to go there. More ideas like adding low sec only POS mods like Pleasure Hubs which take hookers and booze like current POS's take ice and less of everything else. The idea of adding in mods that use up the various trade goods which now languish in cargo holds everywhere is a great idea. Supported in principle, though I disagree with some of the suggestions.
Samantha Quii	Posted - 2010.02.24 13:30:00 - [160] I support this!
Elias Orphanou	Posted - 2010.02.24 13:38:00 - [161] /signed We need more love in LowSec.
Kain Simmons Nomad Voyager	Posted - 2010.02.24 13:45:00 - [162] (1/2) I like the Idea to limit Pirate Faction Ships to Low/0.0 Sec only BUT it is allready too late for this and it would **** off a lot of Players so the Idea is sadly unreasonable. However i would like to extend the Ideas in the Starter Post with a Proposal of a new Ship Type that can only used in Lowsec. New Ship Claas : Electronic Remote Access Drones Sieze : Between a Small/Medium Drone but piloted by a Player The Purpose is to Enforce the Target to eject his Cargo and/or his POD! The small manned Drone Vessels will be able to DOCK on the Hull of a Target (i have the pictures of matrix I in mind when the bots try to capture the hoover ship). The Requirement is shields below 30% and successfully Warp disrupted. Depending on the Taget sieze you will need multiple Drones in order to make this working, vague values later. When the necessary Ammount of Drones have docked on the Tagets hull a Interface will become available for the Attackers containing a List of all Modules and Critical Systems. By Clicking on a System or Module you Start to Disable it funktion wich take some Time. If successful the Module is Offlined by consuming its Hitpoints to zero (same as overheat effect). Apart from Modules there are several Internal Systems that can be offlined. - Delf Destruct Ability This can only disabled if the Pilot initiate it. The Basic Chance to disable it is 75% and it can be raised to 99% by Skills. But a swift reaction is needed because the disable timer is only slightly lower than the destruction timer. - Trusters The Ability to fly sublight speed can be disabled here. Its one of the early Targets because it prevent the Prey to get back to Gate or Station. When disabled the max Velocity is 0 but the ship could still go in warp when the warp disrupters are taken off. - Cargohold emergency Eject When successfully hacked all the Cargo will drop in a special container, far enough from the Prey to scoop it back. FRIGHTERS can not eject cargo they can only captured or destroyed! After the Cargo Eject the Target Ship will become unlockable and invulnerable and go instant in a emergency Warp to a deep safespot and it get an additional a 1 hour cloak like the one you get after a gate, until it moves. The Trade off here is 100% Cargo but no Ship Kill (including fitting) versus killed Ship but parts of the Cargo destroyed. To pull this off a good Attack Team need about 10-15 Minutes. Note : Not every target is worth time and effort to treat it this way. Its about freedom of choice, if you think its worth your time do it, or you just pop it and scavenge the leftovers as usual. - Enforced Emergency Eject When successfully hacked the Targets Pilot will ejected from his former Ship and the Pod will become unlockable and invulnerable and warp instantly to a deep space spot where it is additional cloaked up to 1 hour until it move. The Ship is free to board to whoever can grab it. A good Attack Crew will need about 30-40 Minutes to Board a Ship. Thats a lot of Time for Reinforcments Sound easy to capture a ship, feeling to YARR out lout ? Well it is hard work and it need a big Support Crew The Capture Drones have the Signature and the Velocity of a Medium Drone, they can be locked, shoot at and die real quick. They can even shoot after docked on your Hull wich make a standing target. They can be smart Bombed wich is a real horror, they can attacked with drones, FoF Missiles and Minmatar turrets still fire, even without cap not talking about Cap Boosters wich should the absolute Primary to disable first when Smartbombs are fitted. After all its hard work and its supposed to be hard.
Kontalaa Trinity Core	Posted - 2010.02.24 13:56:00 - [163] good ideas. i support it.
Kain Simmons Nomad Voyager	Posted - 2010.02.24 13:56:00 - [164] (2/2) So you need Warp Distupters, Neutralizers, ECM and Small Boats that take Care real quick of launched Drones. While it is optional to Disable any Modules it might be a good Idea to incap Weapons, Cap Boosters and other Modules that could break the Sige. Of course that extend the Time of the Operation and a big Retribution Fleet might just a few Jumps away. That means some battle ready Escort might a good Idea too. Thats certainly a LOT of Effort involving a bigger Group of People to capture a ship successfully. More effort worth to gank the random 0815 guy because that where a real pain and would **** people off. Its not meant to become the number one choice of pirating everything. The Focus is more about Faction fitted Ships or Juicy Cargo or careless Marauder/Dreads/Carrier that ratting in Lowsec. Imagine this Complex fitted Vargur worth 6 Billion fall into your Hands unharmed. That justify a crew of 15 Pilots or more to bring it down. To spice it up, due the Sieze of the Vessel there is no space for a POD. However all Functionality a pod provide is supplyed by the ship itself. Think of it as a Pod with extended Functionality. However if the Ship go BOOM you wake up on Station. The safety Layer of a additional Pod is not provided. Tough Stuff for tough Guys (and space Girls) The Ships can only bought and used in Lowsec and NPC 0.0 Space because this are the only systems that recive a carrier signal provided by the local Pirates that is needed to make the hack software working. Thats the insurance the Pirates installed to make sure their invention wont turn against them. Some Stats : Target need to be Warpdisrupted and the Shields must be constant below 30% to make the Electronic Capture Vessels able to Dock and Work. If a Criteria is not meet anymore the Docked boats will repelled and can not redock until the Criterias are meet again. If you docked on your Prey you see his interface, when you click on a module a Timer apears (depending on the Module and sieze of the Module between 30 seconds and 5 Minutes) and when it meet zero the Module is offlined/have 0 hitpoints. You have also the Buttons to Eject Loot, Pod and disable subwarp speed. This Timers run between 5 - 30 Minutes and have a percentual based success chance that means they can fail and need another cycle simillar to salvaging. The Ship Skill(Rang 4) and a new Skill(Rang 3) under Electronics can significant raise the Success chance. You get access to the Interface only when the Minnimum Requirement of Electronic Capture Ships docked on the Target. If 2 or More Ships offline the same Module on the Target it will offlined faster. There can be more ships dock on a Target than the minnimum Requirement, that help to speed up the Capture Process. Electronic Attack Vessels needed to Capture a Ship (not fixed, just an example) : Shuttle = 1 Interceptor = 1 (max 2) Frigate/Assault Frig = 2 (max 3) Cruiser = 3 (max 5) Battle Cruiser (4 max 6) Battle Ship/Marauder (6 max 9) Carrier/Dread (12 max 16) .... Titan (40 max 60) To boost the Pirates a requirement to get into the Ship should be a Sec Status below -5 and the ship should available exclusive above the black Market mentioned in the Starter Post of this Thread.
Baumi Liga Freier Terraner Cult of War	Posted - 2010.02.24 16:02:00 - [165] Edited by: Baumi on 24/02/2010 16:02:16 Lowsec definitly needs love, that is obvious even for a 0.0 pilot like me
Ilyana Nehla Caldari	Posted - 2010.02.24 17:24:00 - [166] /Sign Very good Ideas. At the moment LowSecs are just ridiculous...
Slade Hoo Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2010.02.24 17:35:00 - [167] Don't forget to check the "support"-box while posting you ******s! Every vote counts! lowsec needs you! ------ Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum!
Petout	Posted - 2010.02.24 18:49:00 - [168] signed
Ilyana Nehla	Posted - 2010.02.24 19:17:00 - [169] Whoops okay +1Support :P
Sha'Sheer Friends Of Harassment	Posted - 2010.02.24 20:00:00 - [170] +1 Thumbs up. Dont like all of them, but its a good start. 11. Pirate Stations that only give docking rights to flashy reds.
EhDuin SalaDah	Posted - 2010.02.24 20:22:00 - [171] bump for an OUTLAW Expansion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mimma Lemnu	Posted - 2010.02.24 21:55:00 - [172]
yourdoingitwrong	Posted - 2010.02.25 03:48:00 - [173] Edited by: yourdoingitwrong on 25/02/2010 03:56:02 Full Support! good ideas
Das Brute Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.02.25 04:44:00 - [174] 1:meh, if you want to control a place, go get sov. If you want to avoid guns, war decs are there. I could however see a mini war dec fee to be paid for free fire in a certain system for X amount of hours, but a limit would need placed on how many times per week 2: meh, sure 3: contracts are there for a reason, want illegal stuff? Check contracts 4: ok 5: i could see increasing any way to make more ISK 6: It's low sec, if you want to attack someone, go for it, no need to make low sec into null sec just for pirates, wheres the advantage for non pirates to balance? 7: Then you get some nub straight from recruiting forums who does a search for a corp, clicks to join, then has to travel umpteen jumps to get where he is going and has to cross low sec to get there? I'd go with more low sec systems in hi sec areas, but not a death valley between them all. 8: You really need to get out more dude, seriously 9: so, no worry of gate guns, no worry of hotdrops, and no concord anywhere? Are you really that scared of the groups in 0.0? Goto EC-P8R dude, all you want is right there. 10: Better ore would have the lure of more ganks =) , pretty sure better missions are already done in low sec. I hear L5's cant be done in hi sec... Low sec is just that, low security, it's a lower security than high sec. Thats why they only get gate guns, yet you can kill at will away from them. There would be more lure to go there if it weren't for that. Want more folks coming in? Hunt elsewhere and let people think they are safe, then jump em. All the points you have mentioned are null and void, because the lure for low sec is to fight pirates or to gank idiots, thats it. Congrats, you brought it on yourself, deal with it sucka. Say all the low sec systems get cyno jammed, that means the only place for carrier logistics for the 0.0 folks is in 0.0. Then your happy little carebear gank squads will be dealing with 0.0 crews coming through and smashing your gatecamps. Then you'll be back here, singing "The Way It Was" so you can return to fighting haulers and barges. If you truly wanted a fight, why arent you out nippin on the 0.0 guys? pirate tears, best tears /not supported
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.25 09:37:00 - [175] Originally by: Das Brute Stuff I love you guys, I really do, read the post mate, everything yo usaid just shows a complete lack of comprehension, this isnt about pirating carebears, it isnt about not fighting or making things safer. It is about the lowsec ENVIRONMENT, and it is just ideas, not an I want list. Fear of fighting? Check our KB, you wont find carebears on it. Fear of caps? I fly a dread and a carrier and we have supercaps. Fear of 0.0? Been there, done that, found it damn boring tbh. We live in lowsec because we want to, the fact remains that it doenst have alot to make it a unique place, THAT is what this is about. So please, stop whining that some other people would like to improve the place they live and play. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Vaedian GER Versatech Co. Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.02.25 10:56:00 - [176] Screw planet carebearing, this is what Eve needs.
fido goran Froidenhaus	Posted - 2010.02.25 15:01:00 - [177] /signed
Sir Quentin Gallente Back to Yarrr	Posted - 2010.02.25 15:02:00 - [178] Bump, cmon guys, we need your support! ---
Ian Doom	Posted - 2010.02.25 15:05:00 - [179] Edited by: Ian Doom on 25/02/2010 15:05:46 /signed Not a Low Sec Resident, but you Guys need a little attention by CCP I think
Cariox Back to Yarrr	Posted - 2010.02.25 17:49:00 - [180] /signed
Das Brute Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.02.25 17:52:00 - [181] You want to add to the environment by simply turning low sec into 0.0, nothing more. if 0.0 was so boring, why do you need to increase your safety to gank a hauler? /still not signed
Mr Stark	Posted - 2010.02.25 18:13:00 - [182] Originally by: Das Brute I have no idea what I am talking about so I will just speak randomly, and make a fool of myself, it is clear I have no idea what this post is all about. I believe lowsec is far too dangerous and I have died to pirates many times, my tears have flowed freely in local. Please kick me and laugh. There ya go, i fixed your spelling mistakes mate, good luck with hello kitty.
Das Brute Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.02.25 18:35:00 - [183] Originally by: Mr Stark I have to gatecamp with 5 or more to take down a lone hauler or barge because thats true pvp fixed yours for you as well mate, cheers
S4ntis	Posted - 2010.02.25 19:00:00 - [184] Full Support
Legacy Beacon Institute and Industrial	Posted - 2010.02.25 19:44:00 - [185] On #1: I'm for some sort of 'claim' system, but mechanics for someone to remove that claim have to be in place. So using existing sov mechanics I say have people be allowed to drop a Sov module in lowsec systems. They can then use an Ihub to upgrade the system to an extent where at max level it could be as good as the lower levels of null sec are without an Ihub. Also you'd get reduced office fee's per level, in addition I could go along with gate guns no longer attacking you, but they would not defend you either. They'd just offline essentially in regards to the controlling corp/alliance. on #2: Sure, have them be slightly better then current high sec agents, but only slightly. on #3: I'd be for all current pirate goods to be able to be sold on some sort of black market in lowsec...not so sure about creating new ones. on #4: To sell, maybe, to use no. on #5: If all the mechanics work right it should increase this profession anyway. on #6: No to overly complicated, more ransom options such as suggested above for players would be more viable. on #7: No, you shouldn't be forced into low sec, null sec, or high sec. It should be the potential rewards that get you there. on #8: If balanced to be less profitable then null sec moon goo sure, also would give more meaning to some contraband in game to be useful. on #9: If you used my above sov mechanics you'd already have this ability. on #10: once again see the sov suggestion I made. Over all can agree lowsec needs more reward for the risks.
Das Brute Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.02.25 21:07:00 - [186] Edited by: Das Brute on 25/02/2010 21:09:01 Originally by: Legacy On #1: I'm for some sort of 'claim' system, but mechanics for someone to remove that claim have to be in place. So using existing sov mechanics I say have people be allowed to drop a Sov module in lowsec systems. They can then use an Ihub to upgrade the system to an extent where at max level it could be as good as the lower levels of null sec are without an Ihub. Also you'd get reduced office fee's per level, in addition I could go along with gate guns no longer attacking you, but they would not defend you either. They'd just offline essentially in regards to the controlling corp/alliance. on #2: Sure, have them be slightly better then current high sec agents, but only slightly. on #3: I'd be for all current pirate goods to be able to be sold on some sort of black market in lowsec...not so sure about creating new ones. on #4: To sell, maybe, to use no. on #5: If all the mechanics work right it should increase this profession anyway. on #6: No to overly complicated, more ransom options such as suggested above for players would be more viable. on #7: No, you shouldn't be forced into low sec, null sec, or high sec. It should be the potential rewards that get you there. on #8: If balanced to be less profitable then null sec moon goo sure, also would give more meaning to some contraband in game to be useful. on #9: If you used my above sov mechanics you'd already have this ability. on #10: once again see the sov suggestion I made. Over all can agree lowsec needs more reward for the risks. I can deal with this. Gate guns would still do their thing ofc, but anywhere away from them is fair game. This meaning low sec would still be some type of 'sec' but mainly for the ones who run it. Eve is about profit and if a 0.0 group needs an area for low sec for logistics, they'll either need to pay tolls or help guard these areas. Thus, turning pirates into "logistics defenders" lol, but the same ideals nonetheless. Kudo's to you Legacy, I would approve if was more along these lines than OP's. making low sec, a higher sec for the owners, but less resourcewise as well. I see low sec as more logistical than a springboard to 0.0. Thats where pirates make their dough. Would definitely bring a new era to low sec. More like low sec interns than actual sov holders maybe.
TrustTheGiant	Posted - 2010.02.25 22:18:00 - [187] /signed
Myloi	Posted - 2010.02.25 23:31:00 - [188] I fully endorse this product and/or service.
Marteena	Posted - 2010.02.25 23:35:00 - [189] good thread, would read again.
Farrrraday	Posted - 2010.02.26 01:10:00 - [190] full support, mor love to lowsec
Kruxxass	Posted - 2010.02.26 06:59:00 - [191] /sign more love for Low-Sec
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.26 08:03:00 - [192] Have updated the original post to reflect Legacy's ideas. Not big differences, mostly a slight expansion on idea 1. Keep the support and ideas rolling in people... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Das Brute Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.02.26 08:31:00 - [193] still dont agree with #7, but what the hey. Kudos /signed
Seranina	Posted - 2010.02.26 09:30:00 - [194] thumb up! There is definitely the need for some content boost in low sec.
Xinja Pantera	Posted - 2010.02.26 10:05:00 - [195] signed
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.27 18:12:00 - [196] bump for the love of lowsex Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
MINESVSGANG	Posted - 2010.02.28 01:17:00 - [197]
Makaio Gentilis Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2010.02.28 11:35:00 - [198] While I only like some of the ideas mentioned I think #10 is the most important: Scale the risk/reward towards highsec.
Nagusaran Rensia	Posted - 2010.02.28 19:54:00 - [199]
ParlourBeatFlex	Posted - 2010.03.01 04:34:00 - [200] Edited by: ParlourBeatFlex on 01/03/2010 04:33:54 +1 at the ideas in general. The only ideas i dont like are: - Ilegal items shouldnt be restricted to the black market, or at least a market that is restriced to a certain area of space. Whats the point of smuggling items from a legal system to another legal system? - Although i agree there should be some small islands of lowsec within the current empire space, i think these shouldnt be bordering. If you were to strategically place them, the idea of risk vs reward can still be fundamental. Borders would mean every haul is a risk... small or big reward.
Tiger's Spirit	Posted - 2010.03.01 06:37:00 - [201] /Supported
Hun Jakuza Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2010.03.01 06:37:00 - [202] +1
Ayaska Swordfish Back to Yarrr	Posted - 2010.03.02 12:26:00 - [203] /sign
Xtover Suicide Kings	Posted - 2010.03.02 13:41:00 - [204] add the advanced AI rats to lowsec (and 0.0) which would encourage ship fits closer to PvP fit and make it so those ratting have a competent PvP setup as well.
Rainsdon Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.03.02 13:47:00 - [205] Low-sec is needing a boost, some good ideas listed. _________________________________________________________
weedmasta Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.03.02 15:18:00 - [206] Not signed, trying to turn low-sec into 0.0 and allow pirate/pvp corps to build mini empires isn't going to "fix" low-sec in anyway. Apart from 1, 6 and 9 the rest of the ops points sound good. As for making low-sec dangerous, it is dangerous enough, in fact so dangerous that people don't want to venture into low-sec as much as possible. The problem is just that, people don't have a good enough incentive to come to low-sec. As for cyno-jammers in low-sec, i think cap-warfare should be strictly restricted to 0.0, caps have no place in low-sec, especially now that there are jump freighters. ___________________________________ Shuuuun, shuuuun the smacktalkers.
Mutnin Amarr Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.03.02 15:47:00 - [207] Edited by: Mutnin on 02/03/2010 15:53:12 Ok first off, I'll support the idea of "a low sec expansion or upgrade" but not the ideas presented. (sorry but we don't need sov warfare in low sec) I'm not a fan of any sort of system upgrades done by players. That to me is too much like sov warfare and next thing you know all the hoards or null sec blobs coming into low sec stealing everything. (example look the current situation with low sec moons) We already see many null sec alliances making moves on the moons all across low sec, which cuts out income possibilities for many low sec groups. No one in low sec can really compete when any of the major power blocs decide they want moons in low sec. If you allow for system upgrades, or the ability to control systems for some sort of benefit, it would turn into boring sov warfare, that many of us have no interest in. As far as capitols, I think something needs to be done about them as there are far too many floating around low sec. When a FW militia can drop 9 carriers into a fight and have dreads on stand by, it's easy to see things aren't what they should be in low sec. I do agree something needs to be done to curve the usage of capitols in low sec, but I don't think it would be right to be able to cyno jam them out of systems. If you let pirates upgrade systems to that extent, certain groups would just grab up high traffic boarder systems and never leave. We already see this to some extent. IMO Low sec needs to be opened up a bit. We need "newly" found systems or new gates added to make roaming a bit more enticing to various areas. I also think high sec cearbears have it far too easy and the risk vs reward just is not there to get them to want to adventure out into low sec.I won't say that all level 4's should be moved to low sec, but I do think all "high ranking" agents should be moved to low sec. I say any agent that is quality 10 and down should be in high sec. Any agent that is quality 11 and up should be in low sec. This means any agent from level 1 through 4 that is above quality 10 "SHOULD" be in low sec. The reason for this, is it would add more risk for the reward and it would entice younger players to take a stab a PVP sooner than they might generally do. Risk vs reward, remember that folks? Miners should also get more reward from low sec, but I'm not sure how to do it with out affecting the whole eve mineral basket. Possibly give them faster laser cycle times because of such and such reason that could be worked into a story. This would give miners a "reason" to come into low sec to mine, they would earn more because they are mining more with the faster cycle times in low sec. Something like this likely wouldn't affect the mineral basket much but would give the reward that is needed to get them into low sec. Once again, Risk vs Reward.. If you notice, none of my ideas are about things for pirates, because having more targets in low sec is reward enough for real pirates. We don't need systems or upgrades we need people in space. continued
Mutnin Amarr Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.03.02 16:01:00 - [208] continued.. The one area I would like to see changed, is how pirates react with FW members. Let's face it, most pirates are at a very big disadvantage to the blobs the Militia's can muster up at the drop of a hat. Much less, we have to fight them under gate guns causing us to have to fly heavy or with lots of logistics. I don't think gate guns should go away as there should be risk to us Pirate types, however I do think CCP should think about no gate guns if we the target is in FW. We have FW guys whom fight each other day in and out of gates and stations. They fight on gates and stations, that are owned by their various Empires, yet the gates don't attack the guys from the other side, so why should they attack pirates? I completely agree with having gate guns there to hinder attacks on civilian (non Militia) members. However Militia members are in low sec in most cases to PVP. They accept the risks of low sec and come there for the action. Why not allow us pirate types, the ability to fight them unmolested from gate guns for a short amount of time? It would be nice to be able to not have to fly a BC and above or have logistics in every gang because we can't fight on gates with out it. Again I'm not saying no gate guns, but rather lets us get involved in fights on gates with Militia members with out having to fly BS's & BC's or HAC's all the time. To add to this I will say I really do not like gate "extended" gate camps. It think it's a lame form of lazy PVP when you do nothing but site on a high traffic gate ganking people. Perhaps having the gate guns do more DPS if the same ships are on the gates for an extended amount of time. I'm not sure how this would work though, because most likely certain groups would just blob up even more to tank the guns. I do think it would be nice to fight the FW guys in small faster ships but also do something to hinder the 23/7 gate camping types.
weedmasta Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.03.02 16:38:00 - [209] Originally by: Mutnin text Agree with everything you are saying m8. The main issue with low-sec is the lack of people in it and CCP should try to find solutions to the "low-sec problem" from that vantage point. BS rats were a good start, did it change much? Probably not but i am certain it had a little impact on trying to get new players into low-sec. E.g. A new player will do a lvl 1 mission and get about lets say 50k ISK reward for it. If he goes to low-sec and kills a 500k BS rat he will save a lot of time in terms of gaining capital initially. However for more advanced players ratting in low-sec is not viable atm. I am not saying low-sec should have 0.0 spawns but spawns that are closer to 0.0 quality. Low-sec is supposed to be a stepping stone for 0.0 as well as a place to live and make some kind of a living for people if they choose to do so. At the moment it isn't doing either of those things in a good way. Either risks are too low (e.g. FW missions where you only have to kill 1 NPC in most missions) or the risk vs reward is just not worth it in the first place. ___________________________________ Shuuuun, shuuuun the smacktalkers.
Jori McKie	Posted - 2010.03.02 17:32:00 - [210] I like a lot of the ideas and i would love to fight more Pirates, Pirate wars sounds hell interesting
Dianna Soreil Monolithic. Aggressive Dissonance	Posted - 2010.03.02 18:35:00 - [211] those who whine about gatecamping obviously have absolutely no idea how inherently risky it is, as the united (lol) demonstrate on a daily basis camping a gate 23/7 only makes you a big, fat target 23/7 as for the rest of the ideas some are meh but i'm supporting just because lowsec needs some real boost
Anjinha Napalm Death Industries	Posted - 2010.03.02 20:11:00 - [212] supported idea. Industrialists' ideas for EVE "We don't need Santa Claus... we need his factory"
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.03.02 20:36:00 - [213] Originally by: weedmasta Low-sec is supposed to be a stepping stone for 0.0 as well as a place to live and make some kind of a living for people if they choose to do so. I think that the idea that it is a stepping stone to 0.0 is a perception that has lead low sec into its current state. Regardless of their original intentions or of how it is commonly viewed, low-sec has moved beyond that and needs to be analyzed with what is actually happening there rather then what they thought would happen. First off the reality is it doesn’t work that way, the stepping stone into 0.0 is to go to 0.0. Second, as it stands there are three distinct areas of space with a quasi fourth. High sec, low sec, 0.0 and maybe wormholes. They share similarities but for the most part are distinct in and of themselves and don't follow a progressively graduated curve. In other words, there is no curve players can climb going up from high sec at the low to 0.0 at the climax. Each area of space needs to be treated on its own, unless CCP manages to shoehorn in some sort of progressive mechanic ramping up to 0.0. I doubt they could manage it, and even if it were possible the game resultant would probably not be the game we all know and love (it'd be like WoW instead). All this is to say that low-sec requires its own treatments and focus regardless of 0.0 or high-sec. From its current state of being it would seem to me that CCP hasn’t arrived there yet, they will though I think, as the game evolves further. I just wish it was sooner rather then later. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Dianna Soreil Monolithic. Aggressive Dissonance	Posted - 2010.03.02 20:45:00 - [214] Quote: Second, as it stands there are three distinct areas of space with a quasi fourth. High sec, low sec, 0.0 and maybe wormholes. They share similarities but for the most part are distinct in and of themselves and don't follow a progressively graduated curve. In other words, there is no curve players can climb going up from high sec at the low to 0.0 at the climax. Each area of space needs to be treated on its own, unless CCP manages to shoehorn in some sort of progressive mechanic ramping up to 0.0. I doubt they could manage it, and even if it were possible the game resultant would probably not be the game we all know and love (it'd be like WoW instead). actually due to gate guns lowsec requires far more SP than 0.0
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.03.02 20:55:00 - [215] Originally by: Dianna Soreil actually due to gate guns lowsec requires far more SP than 0.0 Indeed, and there are the security hits, and the timers, and the lack of bubbles, and the lack of bombs, and whatever else I'm missing. They really are two very distinct and separate areas. As much as high sec is different from either of them. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Outtou DeGaybarr	Posted - 2010.03.05 06:16:00 - [216] just keep bumping up the bounties on rats, and make the ore rarer..all high qualities of ore or they produce more...Really, we would just need more corporations to be comfortable with the isk they can make to live out there, and put up with pirates. Eventually it would lead to 1 of 2 things..either the corps get blobbed out by pirates that refuse to take losses (most likely) or 2, corps get themselves situated out there and try to take some pockets and bottlenecks to rat and mine in. If it's 1, then pirates can make some more isk, as well as being more vulnerable to anti-pies while making that isk. If it's 2, then the corps may evolve in skill and actually enjoy the random pvp aspect of it and defend their home areas in low sec from other corps. If a small increase doesn't work, increase it again...it will draw some attn. I'd say 10mil an hour ratting in a decent sized system would compete with passively running level 4's in a raven without looking at your screen hardly ever (not counting salvage), plus the level 4's in low sec do pay out better also, but can get a bump as well.
Insa Rexion Fumar Puede Matar	Posted - 2010.03.05 08:00:00 - [217] ABSOLUTELY **ING YES PLEASE :) -------------------------------------------- well mannered **ole
Grumber1 Caldari The Carebear Stare Hydroponic Zone	Posted - 2010.03.05 20:51:00 - [218] /signed
mac mike	Posted - 2010.03.06 11:23:00 - [219] /signed
Commander Jocke 5tar Constructions	Posted - 2010.03.06 14:53:00 - [220] yeah give low sec some love
Yeo San DEFCON. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.03.06 14:54:00 - [221] Some really good ideas. A shame that low sec is in the state it is now. BS-Rats in the belts did not revive it, thats why I turned to 0.0 (but I often remember the times of -10...)
Amber Tristan Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.03.06 19:55:00 - [222] /signed
Slade Hoo Amarr Corpse Collection Point	Posted - 2010.03.07 15:51:00 - [223] bump ------ Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum!
Enzu777	Posted - 2010.03.09 05:41:00 - [224]
Major PewPew The Dark Horses	Posted - 2010.03.09 09:28:00 - [225] didnt bother reading the thread...but the OP should be hired by CCP to help make changes along the lines of what he mentions. His ideas may not be perfect, but they're far better than anything I've seen CCP try.
Der Bischof	Posted - 2010.03.10 17:15:00 - [226] I do not completely agree to all points, but it goes to the right direction. Lowsec and its "small scale pvp" possibilities do need a revision ... Otherwise it will die out.
Erathsmus	Posted - 2010.03.11 03:34:00 - [227] Love the idea!
Mr Stark	Posted - 2010.03.13 11:41:00 - [228] Bump for great justice
Biczkowski Ghosts of War Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.03.13 12:16:00 - [229] Edited by: Biczkowski on 13/03/2010 12:15:59 ++ for this good sir
Vladina Krematoria	Posted - 2010.03.13 14:39:00 - [230] Right now low sec is more a buffer zone between high and null sec..what do i mean by that?its inhabited mostly by 0.0 alliance alts and there upporters and or the "true pirates occasionaly..thats not a criticismjust a reflection of Eve. most available assets are taken so the actual "wildness of low sec is a farce realy. I'll support any reasonable idea that makes low sec more wild for all concerned ie wether its big alliances or small pirate corps..its down right boring and pointless to goto low sec.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.03.14 09:49:00 - [231] Originally by: Vladina Krematoria Right now low sec is more a buffer zone between high and null sec..what do i mean by that?its inhabited mostly by 0.0 alliance alts and there upporters and or the "true pirates occasionaly..thats not a criticismjust a reflection of Eve. most available assets are taken so the actual "wildness of low sec is a farce realy. I'll support any reasonable idea that makes low sec more wild for all concerned ie wether its big alliances or small pirate corps..its down right boring and pointless to goto low sec. This is completely and utterly wrong. 0.0alliance usually have lowsec staging areas, this is fact, but the huge majority of lowsec dwellers are pure lowsec entities, there are aloso lowsec arms of both 0.0 and hisec corps/alliances. But the truth is, lowsec is not boring, just very dangerou. Unless it is your home, most people simply fear it, and rightly so, in its way it is more dangerous than 0.0, I have lived in both for long periods. Lowsec needs factors that make it a unique place to live, just like 0.0 and hisec have their ups and downs sides, at the moment lowsec does not have that, merely danger. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Slade Hoo Amarr Corpse Collection Point	Posted - 2010.03.14 11:13:00 - [232] Edited by: Slade Hoo on 14/03/2010 11:13:08 Originally by: Vladina Krematoria I'll support any reasonable idea that makes low sec more wild ... Then check your support box while posting ffs! ------ Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum!
Calvo V1	Posted - 2010.03.14 21:03:00 - [233] /signed
Kasper Elbo Psykotic Meat Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.03.14 23:47:00 - [234] I dont know if i like all the ideas, but i support the need for change in the way lowsec works.. For me i think low sec's problem is it's lack of role in the eve universe. When i first moved to 0.0 it was to do pvp. I wanted to get in a small gang and go roaming to find some other players who were also looking for a fight. What i got was huge blobs that 4 out of 5 times ended up in me hanging in a system without grid for half an hour or so until i could see on my ui that someone were shooting my bs and slowly killing it and my pod all the time still with no grid.. so 0.0 happened to be about blobs and ratting safely for 15mil/h to afford getting killed without grid. As that doesn't seem to change I would like low sec to fill that missing role. Low sec should be the place where you could have small scale pvp combat against other pvp-minded players. I didn't want to move to lowsec at that time as what i thought i could do there were either just sitting all night long in a gatecamp or trying to act as an anti-pirate and get just about nothing in reward for those few pirates i would happen to catch. Maybe i'm all wrong about what happens in low sec but hey, what i don't see i don't know, so please if someone knows about another way of living there, please enlighten me. One thing that could make me move to low sec instantly and make me want to stay there would be by making anti-piracy/piracy worth doing so that low sec won't be about gatecamps and killing carebears but more about a fight for survival and profit for both pirates and their counterparts. I think for that to be possible there should be more profits related to piracy and anti-piracy. Sure pirates got ransoms as a possible income source, but there must be other ways to boost the attractiveness of living as a criminal in New Eden. Smuggling maybe, i don't know but i think the market (or maybe a new black market) will be a part of the answer as it would open up for new professions and new ways of making Isk. I don't think there should be a sov system as we know it from 0.0. If there were to be one it shouldn't be controlled purely by military dominance as i think that will just make the blobs start appearing in low sec too in the way we know them in 0.0. Once again i don't claim to have the answers but i definitely think that low sec have some great opportunities in the eve universe for new pirate related professions and for anti-piracy organisations to see a reason for doing their job, which is NOT in any way to make low sec safe for carebears. Instead their function should be to counter the new piracy professions in a way that could be profitable or in some way rewarding for the pirates or antipirates who do their job best. Maybe a system where sovereignty were controlled by some kind of piracy LP's could be a way. The LP's could be given to both pirates and anti-pirates in some way when they did something that would have a positive impact on their way of living as a pirate or anti-pirate and the sovereignty of systems or the possible profits of the market (or black market) could then be affected by who had the most sov in the system. If as an example there were two pirate organisations fighting for the sov of a system, the one having the most sov (gained through doing piraterelated stuff(don't know how it should be earned but somehow without forcing huge blobs to camp the systems all day)) could have the best ability to manipulate the illegal part of the market and then if a anti-piracy organisation gained more sov in that system it could limit the pirates ability to use the illegal market and then allowing the anti-pirates to do something else that could work as a income source for them instead. In that way it could be profitable for both pirates and anti-pirates to try to control the lowsec regions but as the sov system wouldn't be that dependent on combat and military control huge blobs wouldn't appear in the way they do in 0.0 Just some thoughts.
Davader	Posted - 2010.03.15 10:50:00 - [235] Agree
Archangel Divinity	Posted - 2010.03.16 12:51:00 - [236] /sign
ChiefAlex	Posted - 2010.03.16 13:50:00 - [237] /sign
Carlos Spary	Posted - 2010.03.19 09:31:00 - [238] /signed
Oghma Grianainech The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.03.22 12:15:00 - [239] This is one of the better ideas, I have seen in a long time. Too bad CSM is mostly Carebear so your idea would get squashed by CSM and CCP.
Pelorn	Posted - 2010.03.22 18:26:00 - [240]
PMolkenthin NibbleTek The Darwin Award Foundation	Posted - 2010.03.24 10:17:00 - [241] A great concept IMO. Some interesting ideas too. I like the idea of turning low-sec into the seedy underworld of New Eden. Make real mini-proffessions out of Drug dealing and smuggling, prostitution, and gambling. The Serpentis are supposed to be the drug smugglers of EVE, how about adding some Serpentis NPC drug labs in low-sec where you can take drug courier missions. Even negotiating larger buy quantities for lower unit prices for greater profits at higher risk. Perhaps even throw in some proper EVE-casino's. It would be awesome to lose a couple of billion ISK to someone inside, then wait outside for them to undock and gank the ****er! Prostitution, I dunno how that would work but im sure someone has a good idea. ---
Taudia Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.03.24 17:59:00 - [242] Great ideas, supported. Originally by: PMolkenthin Prostitution, I dunno how that would work but im sure someone has a good idea. Milk run style missions that can randomly escalate into a combat scenario.
LudwigvonMises	Posted - 2010.03.24 22:41:00 - [243] Fantastic ideas. But I think it should be kept in mind that the items that would be on the "black market" would need to have a great demand to get people to come to low-sec just to buy them.... boosters or other illegal items would need a great boost to do that effectively imho. I didn't read the whole thread so maybe someone already said that.
Syekuda	Posted - 2010.03.25 02:21:00 - [244] I support this idea. I welcome it
Rya Saptine	Posted - 2010.03.25 08:54:00 - [245] any new content to lowsec would be great. i really like the whole smuggling context.
Raetherana	Posted - 2010.03.26 21:25:00 - [246] CCP - Please acknowledge these ideas.
Quacka Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.27 01:42:00 - [247] Edited by: Quacka on 27/03/2010 01:42:09 Man if EVE had this things would feel so much more interesting again. Traders would have more fun challenges trying to transport good. Pirates will get more pew pew. Bounty hunting may become more viable again to kill high ranking pirates. Defiantly bump.
Stalina Serious Business Incorporated	Posted - 2010.03.27 09:56:00 - [248] cool ________________________________________ ________________________________________ http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Dave Hourai Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.03.27 14:20:00 - [249] Edited by: Dave Hourai on 27/03/2010 14:24:09 1: Clever - labeling the space that pirates "occupy" but complicated with the ownership of the real empires. Imagine Star Wars; there are seedy sides of Tatooine, but its all owned by the Empire. 2: Yes, but they'd have to be general pirates and not really faction standing-like; I'm as hated with the Serpentis as I am with the Gallente. 3: Too tight-fisted on valuable markets, leave the ore here. 4: Nah, fly whatever you want, wherever you want down here in low-sec. 5: I LIKE it, but it would have to come with a bounty change too (contracted kill-rights and minimal bounties and other changes) to open up opportunities for the Anti-pirates and such do-gooders lol. We get smuggling, they get bounty hunting. Fair trade. (If the potential profits say so) 6: I'm iffy on the NPC riff-raff going on there since us pirates don't really care about stuff like that (I'm thinking like COSMOS agents but pirates right? Ehhhh, seems gimmicky) 7: FW makes this viable already honestly, since you should only care about the borders if you are IN FW anyway. 8: Supported only if the POS had a module to use the illegal drugs to make boosters, only anchor-able in low sec. 9: Nah, low sec is too juicy a passage to null sec to pass up, and some of us pirates take great advantage of that fact. 10: 100% Support. Alot of people are saying how there arnt enough people coming to lowsec [Established] but people need to have a reason to go there [Established] Im not interested in getting more carebears to wander in to get ganked Let me stop you here. This isn't necessarily a LIE as much as it does need to go with OTHER changes. Elsewhere there was suggested a Attacker/Loot ratio established and THIS in conjunction with low-sec changes would usher in a time when, to BE profitable as a pirate, you need to be skilled with TINY, 2,3 man squads to take down much bigger prey like faction fit BS with insane tanks. That's the only way or reason changes like yours, mine and other suggested ones would work in low sec. As for turf war however, if you are looking for that sort of thing, really just go to 0.0. If you are looking to prey on the all-powerful high sec people (who will start missioning in low sec in 2s and 3s with changes like this) then these changes are the way to start. Good stuff, supported! No Beginning, No End
Ksharaa	Posted - 2010.03.29 17:00:00 - [250] +1
Kingwood V.I.P Industries United Front Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.05 11:41:00 - [251] Signed a thousand times.
z0de The Bastards The Tusker Bastards	Posted - 2010.04.07 10:07:00 - [252] á á
Zendoren Aktaeon Industries United Star Federation	Posted - 2010.04.07 14:16:00 - [253] I have lived in low-sek for most of my eve experiences and I have to say that if all the ideas that were outlined in the first post of this thread is implemented, the risk to reward ratio would balance out! Personally, low-sek needs to be the place for Corp's and alliance to prove if they have what it takes for 0.0; not NPC 0.0 space (EX Syndicate). Fighting over space should have a gradation to it. As it stands now, there is less NPC 0.0 space(The learning grounds of EVE) then True 0.0 making it a huge barrier for new EVE organizations to break out into 0.0 (This is why, you mostly see just the big alliance blocks and their pets controlling null sek space instead of no name, up and coming organizations) Thanks for low-sek re-balance proposal Rico. Cheers, Zen
Nico Terces	Posted - 2010.04.07 14:29:00 - [254] Edited by: Nico Terces on 07/04/2010 14:29:46 I like the ideas. Would like to see more lowsec content added, more smuggling, pirate factions, black market sounds like nice ideas. I would also like to see an actual tone-down in high-sec missionreward. Make the highsec missionrats drop 30% less loot and 30% less bounty. I think that reducing missionrewards for highsec missions, would place more emphesis on the risk vs reward factor. It'd also help miners earn more! Another thing I would like to see, although it has been mentioned 32490723423x in this thread already, are lowsec exclusive minerals. Edit: forgot to check support!
Xikorita Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.04.07 14:42:00 - [255] Edited by: Xikorita on 07/04/2010 14:42:15 I liked all ideas
Bloodhands hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.09 05:25:00 - [256]
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.13 05:03:00 - [257] I'm still way a fan of this. We need something for low sec inhabitants. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Berendas Monolithic. Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:05:00 - [258] Stalwartly supporting. Thats right, stalwart. Low sec is very hard to make a living in without an alt, whereas in 0.0 or high sec you can easily make good money with little effort on only one character. (The low sec thing doesn't apply to 23/7 gatecamping basement dwellers)
Tibalt Avalon Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2010.04.14 01:54:00 - [259] Can My Girlfriend Have Your Babies? Hardstyle Ambassador
sky'net	Posted - 2010.04.16 15:59:00 - [260] Supported
chiggiwoggoi	Posted - 2010.04.16 16:14:00 - [261] Dont agree with some of it, but overall its a necessary thing to do.
Javajunky	Posted - 2010.04.16 17:21:00 - [262] Edited by: Javajunky on 16/04/2010 17:23:18 Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 07/02/2010 20:37:01 Supporting general idea of rework of low-sec. Fragmenting high sec is actually the best idea of the bunch. Yes, it would apply pressure to high sec citizens which is what they need to start solving their own problems. It would have several side benefits too, not the least is breaking the Jita strangle hold on the market. Perpetual gate camp at high/low border gate? Why don't high sec dwellers organize and smash the camp in the teeth more? Because it's easier to whine or go somewhere else than to organize. High-sec pockets would create more incentive for interdependence and cooperation among high sec denizens. This is sort of comments is like saying weÆre raising your taxes because we know better whatÆs good for you. Basically incentives are what drives people to do things. Disincentives drive people away from it. CCP is not going to create disincentives such as bottlenecks between empires for one simple reason. Subscriptions, you can steer someone to low sec content with incentives, but force someone into doing something, you gamble your subscription revenue. Sure gate camps can be busted but at the same time you are forcing subscribers to make changes to how they enjoy the game for the low-sec player benefit, it will cost subscribers. Never going to happen, seriously doesnÆt matter if 1000 people showed up to Iceland and gate camped the CCP offices to picket for it, they will still say no. The game is an environment of options, a sandbox and personal play style as it should be, the only real way to grow a game is by creating incentives to take the challenge. Overall I do support tweaking Low-Sec, I think there are dynamic opportunities that could be reviewed in more detail by the CSM. But donÆt even waste your breath on creating low sec bottlenecks. Never going to happen. Java
Quakar	Posted - 2010.04.16 21:02:00 - [263] support
Qeacka	Posted - 2010.04.21 00:19:00 - [264] Yes we can!
ArmyOfMe Resonance. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.04.21 05:02:00 - [265]
Ceq Lysander THE GRAIL SEEKER5	Posted - 2010.04.28 17:55:00 - [266] Originally by: Rico Minali 7: Have lowsec borders between all the empires, or at least the empires who are at war, so there is no 'safe' route for people, this way people would actually hire escort personel to protect haulers, another career opportunity. Smugglers would also be employed in such places... I've seen this idea a couple of times before. I like the idea, I think it will create an increase in traffic to low sec which we pirates will love. However, as a compromise I think that a slightly different solution would be more optimal and fairer: Do separate the empires with surrounding low sec areas. (Either just between the Amarr & Caldari vs Gallente & Minimatar, or between all four.) However there should be a high number of routes between them. No pipeline systems. Lots of 3-5 gate systems, and have it say 2-5 jumps through low sec to reach the other empire side. In addition to this, a long, safe way round, going through some 0.5 and 0.6 systems (perhaps faction controlled like ORE?) which take say 20+ jumps to navigate. The shortest routes will obviously be more pirate infested and riskier, with slightly longer routes being less populated, and with the very long way round for the real carebears. Gangs of pirates are likely to fight over control of these premium pirating systems which should not allow capital ships to be cyno'd in.(Make these 0.3 & 0.4 sec systems, and others further away from the boundaries 0.1 & 0.2 which do allow capital ships.) This will allow organised pilots and gangs to escort a short-medium route through low sec with reasonably low risk, still cater for carebears and safety at a time cost, and allow smugglers with blockade runners to smuggle quickly through making profit as they can deliver goods quicker than those being safe. tl;dr: Provide a very long safe route between empires, with several shortcuts through low sec. Just another pirate's 0.02 ISK...
Amongrimm	Posted - 2010.04.28 21:02:00 - [267] nice ideas!
Tibalt Avalon Suck my Titan	Posted - 2010.04.29 03:48:00 - [268] Can i please hump your leg? Hardstyle Ambassador
Gaius Bismarck Darkwave Technologies Blade.	Posted - 2010.04.29 13:03:00 - [269] pretty nice ideas. needs finetuning, but hey, sounds good.
Mara Myra	Posted - 2010.05.01 22:29:00 - [270] Edited by: Mara Myra on 01/05/2010 22:30:17 yep, help low sec!
unloadedx16 Hearts Revolution	Posted - 2010.05.03 07:06:00 - [271]
Rokkit Kween	Posted - 2010.05.03 09:51:00 - [272] Throwing this into the pot. We're looking for ways to encourage players to venture into lo-sec in the first place. My main is pirate (this is hi-sec mission running alt) and will avoid lo-sec if at all possible. Simply because I know how dangerous it is. The main problem with lo-sec at the moment is that the pirates are bored and will attack anything that looks interesting. This is mostly each other because there is no-one else. Tyrannis will up the incentives for going into lo-sec with more valuable/less crowded planets but this isn't enough. I think that something like a fw mechanic but between pirates and Concord would be the way to go. Just my 2c
Riedle Origin. Black Legion.	Posted - 2010.05.03 13:40:00 - [273] some great ideas
T'Amber www.shipsofeve.com	Posted - 2010.05.03 20:52:00 - [274] Hell Yes!! If i need to bribe someone I will. VOTE T'AMBER FOR CSM FIVE All your vote are belong to meÖ POLITICS:SIMULATORÖ
Forgotten2	Posted - 2010.05.03 20:59:00 - [275] Great idea for a new expansion.
Guma LOCKDOWN. C0NVICTED	Posted - 2010.05.05 10:27:00 - [276] great ideas! +1
Mayyee	Posted - 2010.05.05 13:07:00 - [277] more interesting low-sec? im in
DruuSid	Posted - 2010.05.06 22:10:00 - [278]
kano donn	Posted - 2010.05.07 04:32:00 - [279]
Zar Terra	Posted - 2010.05.07 06:15:00 - [280] I support this product and/or service. Originally by: Zar Terra Human Society operates on a single fundamental and unconscious rule: Creation Through Destruction. [yellow]Sig picture removed, needs to be EVE related. Zymurgi
schniefer Good Company	Posted - 2010.05.07 09:35:00 - [281] some nice ideas... supported
Qeacka	Posted - 2010.05.07 16:38:00 - [282] Wooh support!!!
Damnskippy	Posted - 2010.05.10 02:25:00 - [283] What?!? Only 10 pages? Supported.
Bunzan Cardinal The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2010.05.10 12:57:00 - [284] sounds alright ... only problem i have with this, is when a corp or alliance "Claims" space and someone else tries to take said space, the defenders usually do everything in their power to protect it. So they bring as many ships as they can, as well as the attackers... Turning into a war, turning into blob warfare. Also, whats to stop giant 0.0 alliances from stepping in and becoming overlords in lowsec? So not only do you have to compete with other small corps trying to grab space, your competing with a alliance with over 600 members. I do believe lowsec could use something to freshen it up, but i dont think this sort of sov would help.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.05.11 01:34:00 - [285] Hmm it seems to me that with planetary interaction Low-sec could become more interesting and would also open it up to more ideas like those mentioned. Just on it's own it's going to cause people to come out and pick up the goods they are producing. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
kiditar	Posted - 2010.05.15 00:45:00 - [286] Originally by: Rico Minali 3: The BlackMarket 4: Pirate faction ships and items become illegal in hisec, so whilest usable in hisec, become available only through the black market.... 5: Make better smuggling oportunities, with these illegal items, make a smuggling proffesion more viable. Nice
Meluena Barricade.	Posted - 2010.05.15 00:46:00 - [287] some good stuff! love the black market
Slave51346	Posted - 2010.05.15 00:47:00 - [288] supported
The Grouch FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.15 20:19:00 - [289] Not Supported. Here are my reasons. Firstly, there already is "Pirate" space. These are also known as 0.0 NPC space. Also, the only affirmed "overlord" areas you are suggesting are also included in NPC 0.0 space. Curse, Syndicate, Fountain, Delve, and Venal all contain pirate faction stations with pirate faction agents. In all honesty, it would be a hard sale to convince people that pirates run low security space when the names on the stations clearly state otherwise. Also, destabilization doesn't equal cheap rates or cheap bribes. In reality things become more scarce and more expensive. As far as "low sec sov" goes, I like the idea, but I'd rather see you breaking things to get those results, rather than "paying" someone. Black market idea is silly but cool, I'd rather just see a use for most of the items. Also, black markets don't really exist, because not everything is illegal everywhere. For example, slaves should be a part of the black market in Gallente space while in amarr space they should sell on the open market. Again, its not that i don't want to see low sec boosted, i just don't think this is the right direction for it. More breaking, less bribing.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Cult of War	Posted - 2010.05.16 08:50:00 - [290] Originally by: The Grouch Not Supported. Here are my reasons. Firstly, there already is "Pirate" space. These are also known as 0.0 NPC space. Also, the only affirmed "overlord" areas you are suggesting are also included in NPC 0.0 space. Curse, Syndicate, Fountain, Delve, and Venal all contain pirate faction stations with pirate faction agents. In all honesty, it would be a hard sale to convince people that pirates run low security space when the names on the stations clearly state otherwise. Also, destabilization doesn't equal cheap rates or cheap bribes. In reality things become more scarce and more expensive. As far as "low sec sov" goes, I like the idea, but I'd rather see you breaking things to get those results, rather than "paying" someone. Black market idea is silly but cool, I'd rather just see a use for most of the items. Also, black markets don't really exist, because not everything is illegal everywhere. For example, slaves should be a part of the black market in Gallente space while in amarr space they should sell on the open market. Again, its not that i don't want to see low sec boosted, i just don't think this is the right direction for it. More breaking, less bribing. Ok, again, this isnt just about pirates. One thing it is though is NOT about 0.0, its for people who want to live in lowsec, and not 0.0. so NPC 0.0 is not in the equation here. The idea isnt that a corp/alliance 'run' or 'own' the lowsec system, it is about them being the acknowledged overlord of teh underworld there, or teh anti pirate/good guys in system. Does a mob boss burn down the local businesses? No, he makes them pay him 'protection' money, this would be in the form of cheaper/better services, the same goes for the good guys in lowsec, tehy get cheaper/better servises out of gratitude As for destabilisation, what an entity is actually doing is making a differnet stability, not breaking it. It isnt lowsec sov, its recognition of force. The main thing is to make it very different from both hisec and 0.0. Not flaming your response, just clarifying the ideas... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Cult of War	Posted - 2010.05.25 11:44:00 - [291] Epic bump for even moar great justice Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Dograzor The Black Rabbits Academy The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:22:00 - [292] 100% for lowsec getting more "love" - "We don't gank, we just apply force in a disproportionate manner during an uneven tactical combat situation to maximize revenue and increase shareholder value"
The Grouch FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.26 02:01:00 - [293] Argh my browser sucks for quoting! Or maybe I suck. . . Anyway thanks for the response, so in return I'll try to return the favor here. I was thinking about your ideas, and I think you're on the right track. How about something like a new mission base for characters of nefarious interests? Such as missions for particular individuals living out of these stations (I would prefer the station managers themselves), with huge cash bounties and special single station bonuses as opposed to LPs and security increases. Maybe even give them a negative security status requirement, so as to "prove" to said boss that you aren't a concord spy or whatnot. And although I do see where you're going with mob bosses I have to still disagree, mob bosses usually don't stabilize the regions, IE MEXICO IS NOT STABLE. Although that IS a little what I think Low-sec should be like. We need to give the playerbase a legitimate reason why its there. Where is lowsec not high sec? (please bear in mind we're talking immersion and RP here, not mechanics). I think giving low-sec more of a story to it will actually get more players involved. Anyway keep it up, the more you hash this out with your critics the better your ideas get.
afndayle	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:30:00 - [294] Here's another brainstorming idea. It would be sweet if there were hidden stations in the middle of distant asteroid fields or somesuch that had to be scanned out. They'd be pirate stations, and you could only dock in them if you had low security status (to keep out concord, of course). That's where you'd find pirate agents, and they'd give missions, to attract the isk lovers. LP rewards could be enhanced booster blueprints, smuggling ships, maybe a skillbook that makes wardeccing cheaper, so on and so forth.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Cult of War	Posted - 2010.05.26 15:43:00 - [295] Somewhere in the depths of this thread is that very possibility, pirate stations that have to be probed down to find, there you would find the pirate mission agents and the black market pannel. Lowsec pirate missions might send you into hisec with a timer that allows a certain objective to be attained without concord getting you or somesuch mission, but as a control, any deviation from the mission track gets concords attention, so you couldnt warp to a station etc if your sec is too low. I will adjust the main post to rflect this possibility. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Zendoren Aktaeon Industries United Star Federation	Posted - 2010.05.28 03:36:00 - [296] bump because it needs it ...... BAD!
Mr Stark	Posted - 2010.06.10 11:17:00 - [297] I feel the need for a great justice bump, so thins isnt shelved...
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.06.16 07:30:00 - [298] Low-sec needs this attention, an improvement to low-sec would increase the enjoyment of the game for a large portion of players and may entice others into more interesting better developed areas of the game (like PvP for instance). So.... bump. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Milo Caman Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2010.06.16 12:14:00 - [299] Edited by: Milo Caman on 16/06/2010 12:13:43 Agree with most of the points mentioned. However, if you want all of the empires to be bordered by lowsec, you have to make sure there are no easy chokepoints. Do not want Rancer Mk II --- Originally by: Sarina Berghil I think the reason your guns didn't work is because you're trying to hunt squirrels with Howitzers.
Erin Kinkade	Posted - 2010.06.16 13:54:00 - [300] I like this... a lot. Being a pirate and a trade guy the black market has a certain appeal.
BFish Bushwhackers Rough Necks	Posted - 2010.06.17 05:06:00 - [301] As a low sec pirate myself, I would like to see some CCP love head my way Supported ----------------- -----------------
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2010.06.17 05:56:00 - [302] I cant support most of this for low sec. Becouse its over the top for low sec. I would support a fair part of this for 0.0 NPC space but I will never get behind cyo jammers anywere but null sec and I even hate them there. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
Shea Amara	Posted - 2010.06.17 06:04:00 - [303] I cant support this becouse it looks like your trying to turn it into something it was never meant to be. I would support this for 0.0 NPC Pirat space.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.06.17 06:52:00 - [304] It's always good when you agree with your alt, be kind of worrying if you didn't. Anyways I'm sure smuggling things around in 0.0 is fantastic idea given that there is such law and order out there. Glad you got the point of the thread.... -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Spyke BlackIce	Posted - 2010.07.09 19:06:00 - [305] Why is this thread languishing so badly? As bad as low-sec is currently, I would expect more enthusiasm from the low-sec population. If you don't agree with all of the ideas here, at least agree that something needs to be done and hash it out! Personally (a note here - this isn't my outlaw account although this character does have some shady tendencies ), I like most of the ideas but would add a few more... I know this may not be real popular with the outlaws of EVE, but if Bounty Hunting actually got some love from the devs in the form of skills, missions, career path, etc., that alone would draw more people into low-sec hunting the pirates and smugglers (and possible overlords), thus giving the pirates some much needed tougher fights with the possibility of better loot/salvage instead of the random noob ganks or simply fighting each other for lack of prey. Along with the black market, make the items that are commodities actually useful within the EVE universe. As an example, slaves should be usable in PI to increase production but with deterrents to their use. Those are the two that popped into my head atm but I'm sure there is more. C'mon folks. Let's keep this thread alive!
Daool	Posted - 2010.07.11 12:23:00 - [306] Seems to my simple mind that the basic issue (getting more people into low-sec) can only be solved when the 'hard core' pirate crowd put asside the testosterone for a second and discuss how low sec can be made at least partially safer for those there who don't want to fight (while not being too safe). Even the discussions that focus on increasing the rewards available in low-sec (as some ISK based way of tempting people into it) doesn't work since all that means is the hard core PVP element living there get access to more ISK to buy badder ships to **** those who would only go there occasionaly. From all I've seen though any attempted discussion about even slightly making low-sec safer for those wanting to avoid a fight is howled down by screams of "stop crying and sfu". Personnaly I don't HATE it as is (despite only seemingly going there to die) but either stop looking for ways to 'improve' low-sec or turn down the testosterone enough to have the conversation. Can't have both.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din	Posted - 2010.07.11 13:01:00 - [307] This in no way endorses lowsec getting 'safer'. It should be dangerous, thats the whole point of it. However, it shouldnt be danger just from pirates, it should be danger FOR th epirates as well with anti pirate cartels running areas, even industrialists manning up and actually arranging security and building a lowsec industrial fortress. Im sure anti pirates, and other more lawful people would either help or hire out to a strong industrial force. Lowsec should be about EVERYONE who wants to live there, I myself am a pirate and always have been. But I would love to see better anti piracy, a mining fleet that is defended by a real fleet who are actually expecting a fight. It isnt about piracy, its about TOTAL lowsec, put the rewards there for strong industrials, put the bounty hunter and smuggler careers to use. Give lowsec the blast of life it so much deserves and lacks. It needs to be dangerous, because hisec is so safe. It should also reward those brave enough or big enough to face that danger. Contrary to popular belief, there are already people like this, multi faceted allaicnes (and not pirates) who are strong enough to live there, but it needs more reward, more reason and more uniqueness as a place. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Daool	Posted - 2010.07.12 00:41:00 - [308] Mmm, I like the idea of Industrial Corps for example paying for protection, but I see one major issue with it. There's no 'return on investment'. Say some Mining Corp pays for protection, all that happens is every wanna be pirating legend for miles is drawn to it like flies. Industrials pay more, more pirates come. Rapidly any profit margin (ie why the Industrials are there in the 1st place) is eaten away and they just give up - and no Industrial Corp that hears about it ever tries again.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din The Uninvited.	Posted - 2010.07.12 14:53:00 - [309] Then stay in hisec and let tougher people step up to the challenge. People already do it, you dont have to 'pay' for the security, you have asecurity division within your corp. Its no good saying lowsec is too dangerous, it is supposed to be dangerous. I know plent of alliances getting fat and wealthy exploiting hi isk moons, ice belts etc in lowsec because while they are industiral based they fly combat well and are prepared to fight. They do ok, because they treat lowsec as a danger in itself and tool up appropriately, what this thraed is about is making lowsec a better, more unique place with more character. There is no place for making lowsec safer, this isnt a call for more people to go to lowsec, it isnt supposed to be crowded like hisec. It does however need more content to make it more fun and more immersive. Read the original text, at no point does it imply that lowsec needs to be high population. What it needs is more depth of gameplay. It doesnt need t be safe, it isnt going to be, if you want to live in lowsec you need to be tough. Simple. Want that 2 billion isk a month moon? Take it, by force, make the system yours and defend it with all your might. Dominate that system, take all the moons, have a defence force killing all the rats while your miners strip the belts, your security force is ready to deploy, or is already roaming your expanding sphere of influence. Pirates come on by? Your scouts saw them 4 systems away, your miners dock and get into support ships, your security division is already at the gate the pirates will need to come through and your ceo is on comms calling in the local bounty hunters... The story continues... BUT ONLY IF YOU ARE MAN (Or woman) ENOUGH. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
KurotsuchiMayuri	Posted - 2010.07.13 15:24:00 - [310] One problem I see with lowsec is that it's so all-or-nothing compared to highsec. 0.5 system is basically safe, 0.4 is totally unsafe. This leads carebears to only ever deal in highsec, as the next danger level of 0.4 is totally unsafe, full of -10 pirates. Is there a need for a more gradual drop-off? How about in 0.4 CONCORD turns up 50% of the time when you pirate, but you're allowed to escape if you can? (0.3 20%, 0.2 5%, 0.1 concord ain't there -- or something like that.) That might encourage carebears to accept the occasional lowsec mission if it's in 0.4, or maybe pick up some goods from 0.3, rather than lowsec just not existing to them. Plus pirates would actually have to deal with real cops turning up sometimes, not just gate guns. </2c>
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din The Uninvited.	Posted - 2010.07.15 19:34:00 - [311] Nonononononono, that is absolutely not what this is about, again... it isnt about getting carebears into lowsec. It is about making lowsec better for the people who live there, HIsec has 6 security systems, lowsec has 4, 0.0 just is 0.0. There is plenty of hisec, we dont want a 'gradual' falloff where outlaws have an even tougher time. Outlaws live in lowsec, this is about making the game as deep and immersive for outlaws (and the lawful folks who want to live there too) as it is for the hisec multitude and the 0.0 empire builders... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Svarty II Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.15 21:00:00 - [312] Originally by: Rico Minali Nonononononono, that is absolutely not what this is about, again... it isnt about getting carebears into lowsec. It is about making lowsec better for the people who live there, HIsec has 6 security systems, lowsec has 4, 0.0 just is 0.0. There is plenty of hisec, we dont want a 'gradual' falloff where outlaws have an even tougher time. Outlaws live in lowsec, this is about making the game as deep and immersive for outlaws (and the lawful folks who want to live there too) as it is for the hisec multitude and the 0.0 empire builders... Why would you make it better for people who have already chosen to live in lowsec? That's not the objective of the Lowsec change at all. It's about encouraging OTHER players to go there.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din The Uninvited.	Posted - 2010.07.16 07:41:00 - [313] Originally by: Svarty II Originally by: Rico Minali Nonononononono, that is absolutely not what this is about, again... it isnt about getting carebears into lowsec. It is about making lowsec better for the people who live there, HIsec has 6 security systems, lowsec has 4, 0.0 just is 0.0. There is plenty of hisec, we dont want a 'gradual' falloff where outlaws have an even tougher time. Outlaws live in lowsec, this is about making the game as deep and immersive for outlaws (and the lawful folks who want to live there too) as it is for the hisec multitude and the 0.0 empire builders... Why would you make it better for people who have already chosen to live in lowsec? That's not the objective of the Lowsec change at all. It's about encouraging OTHER players to go there. Sorry but no it isnt. I know what the thread is about, since I created it The thread is about making lowsec a better and more immersive place. If that encourages more people (and it should) then that is good too, but this thread is not about getting carebears to go to lowsec. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Two'Heads Talking	Posted - 2010.07.27 08:32:00 - [314] Bamp for lowsec justice!
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din The Uninvited.	Posted - 2010.07.30 12:31:00 - [315] Would like to add this idea to the mix, as well. Lowsec shanty structures as proposed by Death Nova, this ties in very well with the rest of th eideas here. Come on guys, more support for lowsex! Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Mr Stark	Posted - 2010.08.08 15:27:00 - [316] more love
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.08.09 17:35:00 - [317] Edited by: X Gallentius on 09/08/2010 17:41:46 Originally by: Tyr Aeron Give me some incentive to shoot the reds and leave everyone else alone. I'd move to low-sec permenantly if there were oportunity to make the kind of ISK I make in high-sec and I'm sure others would too. What's the saying that CCP is so fond of? "With great risk comes great reward." I lived in 0.0 for a few weeks when I was a wee noob and I can say that a busy 0.0 is WAY safer than Old Man Star on a slow day. There's the great risk, now where's my great reward? Answer: FW missions, Missions in Aeschee, L5 missions in various systems (Aeschee included: See FIO station). Here's the thing: Look up any 0.0 system and then look up the Caldari-Gallente FW map on evemaps.dotlan.net. This low sec is WAY, WAY more active than null sec. It's just that everything in Eve is less active than Empire Space because people use their alts to make isk (risk free) while they are playing in low/null sec, or they are carebears anyways and nothing you do will get them to enter low sec. You could have started this thread about making non-sov 0.0 more active. Syndicate (a region crying for some organized crime immersion) is dead for the most part as are other non-sov 0.0 (Outer Ring anybody?) That said, anything to add richness to low sec is a good thing even if it doesn't bring more people there.
Two'Heads Talking	Posted - 2010.08.16 11:30:00 - [318] dont let the dream that is lowsec die! more support!
Zendoren Aktaeon Industries	Posted - 2010.08.21 04:39:00 - [319] Noticed this was not on the List. What happened to representing low-sec improvements Mynxee? I feel my vote was wasted!
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din The Strangers.	Posted - 2010.08.21 11:30:00 - [320] I agree, I feel that lowsec has basically been abandoned even with a CSM member who supposedly supports lowsec, my vote was clearly misplaced. Even though this has been ver widely supported, and is the most comprehensive post for lowsec improvement it didnt even make it to a meeting it seems. I wont bother to update this thread, if anyone else wants to bother with what seems to be a hopeless cause, feel free. Rico Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Mynxee	Posted - 2010.08.24 13:54:00 - [321] I have not abandoned Low Sec and it is distressing to hear people say they think they've wasted their vote. :( A LOT of my CSM effort so far has been devoted to improving process and communication with CCP to help ensure that CSM is taken seriously and our ideas given due consideration. Without that foundation, no amount of attention to Low Sec will matter. That list linked a couple of posts up was built from the items already in the CSM backlog. Low Sec revitalization is not going to happen by implementing a collection of unrelated changes whether of the "low hanging fruit" variety or not. If you read the Minutes' section on the two-hour Low Sec discussion, you know that resources to address changes on the scale of an expansion (which Low Sec would likely require) are not going to be available for 18 to 24 months because of prior commitments to other projects by CCP. It doesn't make sense--given that time frame--to jump the gun by pushing through a Low Sec proposal without making sure that it represents the BEST possible options for improving Low Sec. If we want CCP to focus on Low Sec, we have to captivate game designers like CCP Greyscale with a great "story" that describes what we want Low Sec to be like, accompanied by a bunch of holistic ideas to illustrate the themes in that story. While Greyscale said at the Summit that a Low Sec revitalization would likely require an initial expansion, it only makes sense that any proposal include ideas that would be good candidates for interation over time. That would allow Low Sec to evolve--hopefully according to a plan and a vision that we, the players, largely defined. Rico, your "Outlaw" proposal is full of great ideas. I supported it. But others have had some excellent ideas as well. How do we combine them all into one proposal that "makes sense" from the "story" perspective that CCP uses in its development process to evaluate ideas and design game changes? These forums suck for that. They allow no cross pollination of ideas nor can gems hidden within other proposals rise to the top if those proposals don't get overall support. That's why I made the Making Low Sec Matter community at IdeaScale. "Outlaw" is one of the key items for background reading. IdeaScale is ideal for sharing, voting on, and discussing individual ideas. You can assign categories and tags to ideas, easily find related topics, and through voting ideas up or down allow the most popular ones to bubble to the top. We have time to think about the content and approach of a Low Sec proposal that will reflect popular ideas, encompass a variety of playstyles, and speak in CCP's "SCRUM language" by telling a story of what we want Low Sec to be and illustrating it with the best ideas out there. I'd like to have something to submit to CCP by mid to late October, for discussion at the December Summit. This thread may very well form the basis of that proposal, but there are also other ideas well worth including. The IdeaScale community is helping to gather, process, and weigh those ideas. I urge you to participate there. Add your ideas from this proposal and encourage others to go vote on and discuss them. This is not something I can do by myself. It requires community effort. I hope you will get involved if you haven't already...and I hope you'll encourage everyone you know with an interest in Low Sec to do the same. Life In Low Sec
Kramberger	Posted - 2010.08.24 17:50:00 - [322] Greetings, As an lowsec inhabitant for many years as an outlaw, this might be a good place to state some opinions.. It is my impression that lowsec is intentionaly excluded from developing by CCP. Not much ppl live here, those that do, obviously dont matte much to devs. It is general thought in both hi and 00 space that outlaws are poor, pathetic creatures who cannot make make a stand in 00 or live happy in hi sec. Low sec is generally ment to be avoided on autopilot and only as a place for cynos on the way to 00. Well That is pathetic! Low sec is a place for supreme, most finest pvp, where you can use all the fancy implants, and fancy mods to achieve victory in fights. True outlaws are pvpers who loath all the 00 bublle ****s, massive blobs whre you get to be only a cannon fodder for huge alliances and theire leaders who make real money out of harvesting rich 00 resources. It is in human nature to be a part of a group, but it also is in human nature to be recognosed as an idividual... 1000+ pos warfare hardly makes YOU special in any way... Low sec does not have a lot to offer, except pvp, and that is why it is so empty... Move all the lvl4 agents in low sec! You will get a baby boom here!! There is allready enough ways to make richies in hi sec, other than farming lvl4 missions... Remove all the capital modules capabilities from low sec... ...and you will get finest, most glorious battles to be spoken about... These two things do not require much of a dev's work time, but would change the the ppl's minds and encourage them to do brave things. o7 Kramb
Mynxee	Posted - 2010.08.24 18:34:00 - [323] Originally by: Kramberger Move all the lvl4 agents in low sec! You will get a baby boom here!! Not according to the mission runners I asked about what would bring them to Low Sec. Life In Low Sec
Kogh Ayon	Posted - 2010.08.25 09:08:00 - [324] 4: Pirate faction ships and items become illegal in hisec, so whilest usable in hisec, become available only through the black market.... --------------------------- Don't like this at all. I don't support your good ideas just because of this one.
Daool	Posted - 2010.08.25 12:52:00 - [325] "It is my impression that lowsec is intentionaly excluded from developing by CCP. Not much ppl live here, those that do, obviously dont matte much to devs. ........" "Low sec is a place for supreme, most finest pvp, where ..." "Low sec does not have a lot to offer, except pvp, and that is why it is so empty..." "Move all the lvl4 agents in low sec! You will get a baby boom here!!" Do you REALY not see what you've done there? That one post basically sums up why lowsec has received such little attention, and will continue to do so untill a fundamental change in game play occurs by many people. All you are wanting to do is for CCP to drag more targets kicking and screaming out of high sec and under your guns. Prediction #1 for you Mynxee - if your next few months of work is going to be aimed at achieving nothing more than dragging more targets into lowsec for 13 year old (mental or physical) so called outlaws to shoot at then you are wasting your time as CCP neither will (or should) do so. If your serious about making lowsec into what it should be a number of so called styles of game-play are going to have to not so much be weeded out, as modified.
Mynxee	Posted - 2010.08.27 16:42:00 - [326] Originally by: Daool Prediction #1 for you Mynxee - if your next few months of work is going to be aimed at achieving nothing more than dragging more targets into lowsec for 13 year old (mental or physical) so called outlaws to shoot at then you are wasting your time as CCP neither will (or should) do so. If your serious about making lowsec into what it should be a number of so called styles of game-play are going to have to not so much be weeded out, as modified. I happen to agree with you. The concept of forcing people into dangerous situations will never work. Low Sec needs holistic changes that will provide compelling reasons for more people to go (or better yet live) and profit there. I think some forms of risk mitigation are reasonable to consider for PVE'ers and industrialists, especially for certain deadspace activities. However, in the bigger picture what I hope for is content based on the outlaw nature of Low Sec that drives unique opportunities which don't exist elsewhere and which work in the context of outlaw-style conflicts--or are even part and parcel of them. Those kinds of changes should reward the adventurous, smart, opportunistic carebear or industrialist who is willing to PLAY THE GAME...you know--forging relationships, making deals, paying attention--all the things related to the people side of things. I know quite a few who do this now, actually, and they do pretty well in Low Sec. IMHO, any Low Sec revitalization should never cater to players just looking for lazy ISK--let them AFK their missions in high sec. All these concepts represent a difficult game design challenge but if it was successfully done, I bet we'd end up with a truly dynamic and fascinating section of the sandbox to play in. It would make Low Sec awesome. Life In Low Sec
adriaans Ankaa. Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.08.27 18:07:00 - [327] I too am dissapointed the CSM has done pretty much nothing about low-sec. For a very simple low-sec change, i have this: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1374725 --signature-- F.CS boost: Here Vid: Link
TYR3L	Posted - 2010.10.01 14:56:00 - [328] Haven't read every post on the prior pages, so I apologise if some of this has already been discussed. #3 BlackMarkets BlackMarket items should definitely include items that are illegal to use in Hi Sec. Some more ideas here: http://criminallowsec.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Illegal-Production/55804-9665 Perhaps also skill books? Remove and prohibit the sale of rival Empire skill books in opposing hi sec systems. For example: Gallente skill books (ships, drones, encryption, starship manufacture, etc.) removed from Caldari Hi Sec markets. Amarrian skill books in Minmatar space, etc. Players would be able to sell all skill books on the BlackMarkets in Low Sec. Obviously you could also still contract these skill books in the rival's hi sec. #5 Smuggling really needs some work. Ship Rigs specific to smuggling that decrease Concords chances of detection? Better chances of success and avoiding detection when moving from security level systems in increments of 1 (0.3 to 0.4, 0.4 to 0.5)? Surely trying to smuggle stuff from a system with security level 0.2 to 0.9 would be more difficult/obvious?
Zelot Blueice XTC Cartel	Posted - 2010.10.10 15:45:00 - [329] Horrible idea when it comes to those faction ships being illegal, infact, the whole blackmarket idea sucks, but other then that, I support.
Yarkhan	Posted - 2010.11.12 17:03:00 - [330] Some very good idea ! especialy the 7/ --> FW zone between empire at wars ?
Tactical Miner	Posted - 2010.11.13 05:45:00 - [331] Edited by: Tactical Miner on 13/11/2010 05:45:26 You want an answer that will draw people to Lowsec? Use these ideas (+1 BTW) - However, allow for the Overlord of the section to be bribed for protection similar to CONCORD in High Sec. Use the insurance policy-type interface at a pirate spaceport to buy some level of protection (i.e. 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, 0.7, 0.9, and 1.0 level of security) that is only active in their controlled territory. Just imagine a spawn of bad ass NPCs you ratted for years coming to your rescue from a gank in lowsec because you bribed them for protection. The tears of pirates would never stop flowing as the bears delighted in the chaos. Hey, Empire pays for CONCORD to keep the peace, why not make peace for hire in lowsec? I do like the ideas posted, but it's never going to work as long as there are epeen gank blobs looking for their next thrill at someones expense. As the great Bear once said - I play the game to entertain myself, not to entertain you! Fix that, and you will have a higher population in lowsec in no time flat! Let's face it, there is only one law enforced section, and two lawless sections. I think it should be one law enforced section, one quasi enforced section, and one lawless section. I like the idea, so I will support it even if there are no changes to the security of players from gank squads.
Xorv	Posted - 2010.11.13 06:38:00 - [332] Originally by: Rico Minali We need a deeper immersion for lowsec, bring it on please, make lowsec the dark and dangerous underbelly that society loves to hate... Lowsec shouldnt be a dangerous version of hisec, just as 0.0 isnt a no concord version of hisec. It should be a seperate experience in itself Support the general idea. Generally support most of the individual ideas. Not 7. unless entrances to lowsec are more diffuse. I don't like the idea of making gate camps better, I would like to see that sort of PvP heavily nerfed to be honest. Doing stuff in Lowsec should be dangerous, not so much traveling to Lowsec in the first place. I would also like to see standings to factions/corps have a significant factor in the game, and most certainly including Pirate Factions. Things like access to stations and their services.

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