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Here is how to passive shield tank for those that want know.

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Remedial	Posted - 2005.08.05 07:45:00 - [271] Pottsey I'm prepping for placing my Ferox in a command module position where I absolutely have to maximize my survivability in fleet encounters. This means warping in at distances, and having enough shield regen to survive a gank long enough to get out. Keeping in mind the ferox's ship bonuses, am I better off cramming t2 large extenders on it with PDS, or going for an active shield tank? Only has 5 midslots and 4 lows, remember.
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.08.05 09:05:00 - [272] ôThis means warping in at distances, and having enough shield regen to survive a gank long enough to get out. Keeping in mind the ferox's ship bonuses, am I better off cramming t2 large extenders on it with PDS, or going for an active shield tank? Only has 5 midslots and 4 lows, remember.ö Against gank setups pure hitpoints is always better then HP regen. Active boosters donÆt get long enough to heal decent mount of hitpoints same for the HP regen on a passive tank. PDS also serve to points adding extra hitpoints and giving you enough cap to run modules. So I would go for that. I did a lot of testing and found hitpoints ships lasted a lot longer against gank ships then active shield boosters or passive regen ships. ôI have found the same. It's a little disappointing. Anyone found an effective lvl 3 / lvl 4 set-up for the Raven post-patch?ö I was helping Shaemell Buttleson with passive tank module and he says he came up with a great Raven setup that he soloed a solo a level 4 angel extravaganza missio. Copy and paste time ôjust to let you know i have pasive tamked a raven and have managed to solo a level 4 angel extravaganza mission. HI.... 6 cruise launchers MID 4 large t2 extenders, 1 EM ward, 1 shield recharger. LOW, 5 Shield Relays. I have all skills to 5 except shield management is lev4. only the 3% implants are in for the shield bonus's.ö Hopefully that helps someone. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Jacob Majestic	Posted - 2005.08.05 12:41:00 - [273] Originally by: Remedial Pottsey I'm prepping for placing my Ferox in a command module position where I absolutely have to maximize my survivability in fleet encounters. This means warping in at distances, and having enough shield regen to survive a gank long enough to get out. Keeping in mind the ferox's ship bonuses, am I better off cramming t2 large extenders on it with PDS, or going for an active shield tank? Only has 5 midslots and 4 lows, remember. - No active tank a Ferox can fit is going to keep it from being melted by a gank-setup battleship. - A Ferox with 2x T2 shield extenders and 4x T2 PDUs is going to have >9000 shield. Assuming you fit hardeners, it would take a Gankageddon ~10 seconds to melt your shields (at 1400 raw DPS). This should be enough time to get out of dodge. (Once your shields go down, you are dead meat, though.)
elFarto	Posted - 2005.08.05 16:15:00 - [274] Edited by: elFarto on 05/08/2005 16:15:36 Originally by: Remedial Pottsey I'm prepping for placing my Ferox in a command module position where I absolutely have to maximize my survivability in fleet encounters. This means warping in at distances, and having enough shield regen to survive a gank long enough to get out. Keeping in mind the ferox's ship bonuses, am I better off cramming t2 large extenders on it with PDS, or going for an active shield tank? Only has 5 midslots and 4 lows, remember. If your referring to the new Siege warfare modules, park your lovely Ferox somewhere else in the system, preferably a safespot. The modules are said to work to all members on your gang currently in the same system as you. Also with each module taking 500tf of CPU, good luck fitting anything better than a civilian railgun afterwards Regards elFarto
Remedial	Posted - 2005.08.05 17:40:00 - [275] Keep in mind guys, that the modules only take 50tf, not 500tf at the moment, and that I said I'm warping at 100km. Gankegeddons don't do 1400 dps at 100km with Radio Ls. Also I THINK I can fit 3 T2 extenders if I really cram stuff and only use standard missile launchers in the highs.
Jacob Majestic	Posted - 2005.08.05 18:02:00 - [276] Originally by: Remedial Keep in mind guys, that the modules only take 50tf, not 500tf at the moment, and that I said I'm warping at 100km. Gankegeddons don't do 1400 dps at 100km with Radio Ls. Also I THINK I can fit 3 T2 extenders if I really cram stuff and only use standard missile launchers in the highs. Also, remember that the best-named shield extenders are almost as good and use less grid and CPU.
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.08.05 20:08:00 - [277] Edited by: Dimitri Forgroth on 05/08/2005 20:07:55 Now i can understand my post being removed, but why was that extremely constructive post before also removed? Don't be a bad loser \| DPS Spreadsheet
Troezar	Posted - 2005.08.05 23:29:00 - [278] Originally by: PottseyôI have found the same. It's a little disappointing. Anyone found an effective lvl 3 / lvl 4 set-up for the Raven post-patch?ö I was helping Shaemell Buttleson with passive tank module and he says he came up with a great Raven setup that he soloed a solo a level 4 angel extravaganza missio. Copy and paste time ôjust to let you know i have pasive tamked a raven and have managed to solo a level 4 angel extravaganza mission. HI.... 6 cruise launchers MID 4 large t2 extenders, 1 EM ward, 1 shield recharger. LOW, 5 Shield Relays. I have all skills to 5 except shield management is lev4. only the 3% implants are in for the shield bonus's.ö Hopefully that helps someone. [/quote Tried this set up and only get 87.7 with my skills and sheield relay 1's, not found any II's for sale. Not tried it in anger but the figure just looks too low to me
Pwyle Kenobi	Posted - 2005.08.08 01:01:00 - [279] Originally by: Troezar Originally by: PottseyôI have found the same. It's a little disappointing. Anyone found an effective lvl 3 / lvl 4 set-up for the Raven post-patch?ö I was helping Shaemell Buttleson with passive tank module and he says he came up with a great Raven setup that he soloed a solo a level 4 angel extravaganza missio. Copy and paste time ôjust to let you know i have pasive tamked a raven and have managed to solo a level 4 angel extravaganza mission. HI.... 6 cruise launchers MID 4 large t2 extenders, 1 EM ward, 1 shield recharger. LOW, 5 Shield Relays. I have all skills to 5 except shield management is lev4. only the 3% implants are in for the shield bonus's.ö Hopefully that helps someone. [/quote Tried this set up and only get 87.7 with my skills and sheield relay 1's, not found any II's for sale. Not tried it in anger but the figure just looks too low to me How about the following: Low: 5 Shield Relays (Cannot find T2 in any market!) Med: 1 T2 EM Ward, 2 T2 Shield Rechargers, 3 Large T2 Extenders High: Whatever you can cram in (for me - a mix of medium rails, heavy launchers and torp launchers) I can solo lvl 3 pretty easily. Can get hairy if anyone gets inside my targeting range for my rails but the heavy missiles work at any range from zero to their max range. Yet to try this on lvl 4 (I have my doubts that heavies will be sufficient).
Shaemell Buttleson	Posted - 2005.08.08 11:44:00 - [280] Since I tried the setup Pottsey posted I have tried it with a Gurrista invulnrability ward instead of the EM ward. I was disapointed as alltough it was the only item that used cap it drained it in a matter of minutes as the 5 shield relays seriously nerf the cap regen. The EM ward I can keep going forever though and as it is the EM torps the rats were using that gave me problems I get on better with this. However I think the gurrista mod would be superb on higher HP passive shield systems than low HP with a fast regen and especialy good on ships like the vampire Dominix where it sucks cap and has a huge shield well over 20k.
Troezar	Posted - 2005.08.08 11:50:00 - [281] Pwyle have you tried using drones for the close stuff? I have skill to use up to 8 heavies so I'll have to try your set-up...
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.08.08 11:51:00 - [282] ôalltough it was the only item that used cap it drained it in a matter of minutes as the 5 shield relays seriously nerf the cap regen.ö Try swapping out some of the relays for PDS modules until you get enough cap to run the modules you want. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Apoll	Posted - 2005.08.09 09:03:00 - [283] Hi, interesting threading. Thank you very much Pottsey and the rest. :) Now I came upon the Cyclone (interesting BC) and I'm consindering to go for Passive tank (let's use that 5% per level boost). (5X 220mm Autocannons) Med 2 Large Shield Extenders - Em Hardener named - 10mn AB T2 4 Shield Power relay. 7720 shield (skills at 4) and recharge around 260s? the recharge rate calculation is my problem. I need to wait days put my hands on the ship and ship fit tool doesn't calculate the BC bonus. At 260s produce aprox 75hp/s at peak. Is that correct? (Also did anyone saw T2 SPR out?)
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.08.09 12:37:00 - [284] Originally by: Apoll Now I came upon the Cyclone (interesting BC) and I'm consindering to go for Passive tank (let's use that 5% per level boost). Fyi that 5% per level boost is 5% extra boost per level on shield boosters.
Apoll	Posted - 2005.08.09 13:24:00 - [285] Oops. Mea Culpa. (trying to move and make an active shield boost setup)
Andrew Redburn	Posted - 2005.08.09 13:33:00 - [286] Edited by: Andrew Redburn on 09/08/2005 13:34:13 Originally by: Elbekar Yemdril Originally by: Calian I don't think active shield tanking is meant to run forever (but I don't have much experience because I don't use it very often) nevertheless i would be surprised to find an active shield tank setup running forever without any module in the lows to make it possible. Large Tech II, 2 Amps, 3 Hardeners Lows 5 PDU IIs, which you need to fit Heavy Nos and 6 Sieges anyway Running forever and tanking around 90/s. Since you got 50% more resistance than passive tank, that is comparable to 180/s passive. Additionally you get ~20/s passive recharge at optimal shield recharge as well. Imho passive is a lot worse, simply because you only have the high recharge of 2.5 times shield/recharge time at ~30%. From 60-100 you got a lot less => far less damage needed to lower your shields. If you are at ~40% and a hard volley hits your shields, you easily fall below 30% which means again lot less recharge => you never reach your 180 wih maximum passive tanking, thus can't sustain your tank for long. An active tank can easily switch Large II vs. XLarge II and then tank 180/s active PLUS hardeners for at least 2Mins, not to mention that an enemy within NOS range will allow far longer tanking. There are some uber modules like Gist Boosters that will laugh at any passive tank, lots less cap than Tech I or II, lots more tanking than any passive tank (I always combine with 2 Amps). Active > Passive. Any time, any where. Ganking > Tanking. Most times :P
Pwyle Kenobi	Posted - 2005.08.09 23:32:00 - [287] Very interesting post on active shield boosting Andrew. I'm going to give it a go on my Raven and see how it compares to my current passive set up in practice (for missions and NPC pirate hunting). I'd be interested in Pottsey's views on Andrew's proposed active boost set up.
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.08.10 09:36:00 - [288] Edited by: Pottsey on 10/08/2005 09:43:30 ôSince you got 50% more resistance than passive tank, that is comparable to 180/s passive.ö & ôImho passive is a lot worseö ThatÆs very unfair as passive tanks have hardeners to, some even 50% active hardeners. Also your active tank only boosted 3 types of resistance while my passive tank boosts all 4 types of resistance. Please compare your active with hardeners to a passive with hardeners. I donÆt know of many passive tankers that go around with no hardeners. ôThere are some uber modules like Gist Boosters that will laugh at any passive tank, lots less cap than Tech I or II, lots more tanking than any passive tankö I donÆt have a problem with active tankers comparing uber modules to passive tank setups as long as you do an active tank uber module compared to a passive tank uber module. ItÆs not really a good comparison to do an active tank with 1 module thatÆs costs more then the passive tank + ship. ôAn active tank can easily switch Large II vs. XLarge II and then tank 180/s active PLUS hardeners for at least 2Mins, not to mention that an enemy within NOS range will allow far longer tanking.ö I think you forgot to take into account the passive tanks totel hitpoint as often the total hitpoints are high enough on the passive to make up for less regen. Take my 21k shields with all 4 resistanceÆs boosted. It takes an extra large booster 7 minuets to heal as many hitpoints as I have base. An Xlarge T2 takes almost 4 minuets to heal as much as I have base. (Edit: If the enemy is shooting my resistance that I boosted and you did not as you only took 3 hardners the time goes up another 30%+ for the booster to catch up with my base hitpoints so 9.1 minuets for the large T2 shield booster) ThatÆs not taking into account my regen or your shield amps which might adjust it a minuet either way. I also assume most Xlarge T2 boosters cannot run for 4+ minuets. ôActive > Passive. Any time, any where. Ganking > Tanking. Most times :Pö I donÆt agree. When someone deals enough damage to kill you in fewer than 2 minuets the shield booster has healed way under half of what the passive tank would have as base hitpoints so the active tank dies and the passive lives. Or you could say the passive tank lasts over twice as long as even without regen. Passive tanks work very well against gank ship due to this. ôIf you are at ~40% and a hard volley hits your shields, you easily fall below 30% which means again lot less recharge =>ö That doesnÆt happen most of the time 1 volley puts me down 1%. Enough damage to knock my shields down in 10% would kill an active tank ship in 1 or 2 volleys. While the passive tank would still have anther 9 volleys time to warp out. You seem to be basing a passive tank regen on a active tanks hitpoints. In which case what you say happens, but its extremely rare to see a passive tank with the same hitpoints as an active tank. Most passive tanks have triple to x5 more hitpoints. You can build passive tanks without extra hitpoints by using shield rechargeÆs over extenders but I donÆt recommend it as you end up with less passive regen and less hitpoints. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Spurgo	Posted - 2005.08.10 12:31:00 - [289] I use a scorpion and i have found a setting that allow me to tank 1 angel BS (500.000) + 2 angel cruisers (110.000) at same time, forever. I called it semi passive tankage. Medium slots: 3 active resist 1 passive 2 Lshield extenders techII 1 Medium shield booster techII 1 Booster amplifier Low slots 4 PDU Try this, keep all stuff active and be ready to tank the hell! i have 50 resist in em 70 in kin 73 esplo 60 heat...but u can manage to have 2 ressitances near 80 if u need to tank a specific rat. 11k shield and 120 shield regen from the booster every 3 secs. My capacitor stops to go down at 29% ENJOY
Flissifrus	Posted - 2005.08.10 12:37:00 - [290] do you have all cap skills and shield skills at lvl 5 for that to work? because I think taht this would not work unless all skills at lvl 5 that concern cap and shield "From the shield tank master"
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.08.10 12:49:00 - [291] Edited by: Pottsey on 10/08/2005 12:49:09 ôMy capacitor stops to go down at 29%ö Could you do me a favour and run that setup outside a stars base for an hour? I want to see if it really stabiliserÆs at 29% or just so slow that it takes a very long time to go down. Just if itÆs still at 29% after 1 hour then it proves cap does not peak at 30% but below 30% which goes against what everyone else says about cap and my own testing which gave me mixed results Nice setup by the way. Not many people get hybrids to work well. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Andrew Redburn	Posted - 2005.08.10 15:41:00 - [292] Edited by: Andrew Redburn on 10/08/2005 15:42:00 You either don't have 21k shields and 180 regen or you don't have hardeners, simply because you can not fit for both. Unless you prove me wrong, my earlier statements are valid and active > passive. I tried a bit with setups and here is what I found does maximum recharge/shield hp Raven: 6 CM Launcher 2 Heavy Nos (for killing frigs, HACs, ...) 4 best named Shield Extenders I 4 Shield Rechargers II Low either 5 PDU II => >19k hp and ~75shield regen/s or 3 Low slot shield regenerator (35% less cap, 15% more shield, tech II not possible due to PG needs) 2 RCU II => 15k shiels with ~80shield regen/s If u are able to fit Tech II Extenders you can get your shields up to 21k and 90regen/s. I am really curious about your setup.
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.08.10 16:51:00 - [293] Edited by: Pottsey on 10/08/2005 16:53:56 ôYou either don't have 21k shields and 180 regen or hardeners, simply because you can not fit for both.ö ItÆs over 21k, with 37.5% to all resistance and 90 ish HP/Regen. I cannot post precise specs as I am in my support ship helping a gang. If you want I can post the percice specs later. ôI wonder what you are fitting, as you seem to have 21k shields PLUS hardeners and recharge of more than 90...if you do not active tank > passive...ö I have a different ship you didnÆt mention the ship in your first post, I also use T2 modules only, have both the shield implants and I use Invulnerability Field (s) to boost resistance. I like Invulnerability Fields as they boost all 4 types of resistance without taking up 4 slots. The key to using T2 shield extenders is you must have shield upgrades at level 5. The cheap sub 100k implants help a lot. The expensive 5% one even more. There are useful 3 types of shield implant but you can only fit 2 at once. ô3 Low slot shield regenerator (35% less cap, 15% more shield, tech II not possible due to PG needs)ö The T2 versions boost PG by 10% per module. I think you mean T2 not possible as you cannot find any to buy. ôUnless you prove me wrong, my earlier statements are valid and active > passive.ö Even with your ship 19k hp your active tank with 90 HP/s will take 3.5 minuets to heal the same amount of hitpoints as the passive has base. Only after 3.5mins the average regen on your passive tank will give another 6300 hitpoints. So your active tank then has to heal for another 1 minuet to catch up. I still stand by what I say if you take out 1 shield extender for 1 Invulnerability Field T2 and use max PDS T2 modules not shield relays and get the skills to fit T2 extenders the pure hitpoints makes up for the loss in regen. In fact as your useing 1 less extender you might even be able to swap to pure T2 extenders now without shield upgrades lvl 4 which I assume you dont have. I also work out average regen over at battle as 2.0 or 2.2 not 2.5. As 2.5 only works when the enemy cannot break your tank. But when battles last under 2 to 3 minets then your better with an active tank not passive as the ative tank dies while the Passive stays alive. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Andrew Redburn	Posted - 2005.08.11 07:56:00 - [294] Edited by: Andrew Redburn on 11/08/2005 07:56:40 Since I misunderstood the Tech II low slot modules description, I will check it out. Maybe I can turn numbers in favour of passive. One last remark before I do more testing: your invulnerability field only gives 37.5% to each, while 3 active hardeners give 50% to each. Since explosion damage is the least common (I would bet Lasers and Hybrids are most used), the damage taken will be usually significantly higher. Also an active tank with 4 PDU IIs and one Damage mod does a lot more damage (worst case: 7,5% faster rof and 7% more damage).
Yarden Tajj	Posted - 2005.08.14 10:49:00 - [295] If somebody is looking for Invulnerability Field II's send me an evemail or convo me.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.08.16 13:45:00 - [296] how about a raven passive setup, but with one of the midslots on a gistii a-type small booster (this adds 28.5 DPS regen and can be run constantly)
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.08.16 14:36:00 - [297] Originally by: HippoKing how about a raven passive setup, but with one of the midslots on a gistii a-type small booster (this adds 28.5 DPS regen and can be run constantly) Er.. That wouldn't be passive, then :p.
Jacob Majestic	Posted - 2005.08.16 14:51:00 - [298] Originally by: Nyphur Er.. That wouldn't be passive, then :p. It's semi-passive, and I do it all the time with a Ferox. Also, Large Shield Extender IIs make a huge difference over Large Shield Extender Is (50% more shield).
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.08.16 14:56:00 - [299] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: HippoKing how about a raven passive setup, but with one of the midslots on a gistii a-type small booster (this adds 28.5 DPS regen and can be run constantly) Er.. That wouldn't be passive, then :p. but means it is semipassive
Andrew Redburn	Posted - 2005.08.16 15:40:00 - [300] Well, with 4 Extenders II and 5 PDU IIs I get 20625 shields. Using one Invulnerability Field II and 1 Tech II Shield Recharger, I get a rechargerate of ~797s which results in 25,882,5/s => 64,7 max. In contrast to my active setup, you got 13125 more shield. With a Large II plus 2 Amplifiers I do 2.58/s (7500/937,5s) + 93/s => 48,3/s more than a passive, which results in battles need to last 272s till I have boosted enough to catch up with the passive tank. Using an XLarge II gives 141/s more than passive which results in 94s battlelength needed till I come equal with an passive setup. With 6640 total cap a Tech II XLarge can be run 92s without taking into account recharge of cap. With recharge and being able to use both Heavy Nos at a time, you can get as much as 61/s (with Tech II nos 65/s) which will allow to run the modules for quite some time (>3 minutes at least). If you are shot at with anything but explosive, its ~12,5% less time (difference in active hardeners compared to invulnerability field II). So if you take everything into account, there is to say: Dmg taken is less than ~95/s -> active can tank forever, passive will die. Dmg taken >95/s -> if you can run your active XLarge II for longer than 94s the active tanking is better, which will usually be the case. Battletime less than 1,5mins and XLarge II fitted, passive is better. Battletime less than 4,5mins and Large II fitted, passive is better. This basicly means if you are good enough with 4 PDU IIs, Large Tech II, 2 Amps and 2 or 3 hardeners for NPCing, active is better since you can fit Dmg mod additionally and thus kill NPCs faster. A real gankship with skilled pilot and Tech II guns does around 500/s to a tanked target, so passive will last longer there.

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