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Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.04 19:12:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Pottsey on 25/05/2005 19:47:12
EDIT: May 2005 update
Recent testing has made me believe the correct number is 2.5 at 30%. So please replace 2.4 with 2.5 in all the below text. That also throws the rest of the maths off a little.
Due to the amount of Eve mails I get asking how to passive tank I decided to post it here again. I donÆt want to this it turn into another is passive tanking worth or is it a waste of time argument read the numbers and methods and make your own mind up. This is purely to explain how to passive tank to cut down on the mail I get. I donÆt have a problem with people mailing me if you do get stuck. For those wondering the idea behind passive setups is if you run out of cap or someone useÆs Nos on you, your defence stays on max instead of turning off.
To work out your passive shield recharge rate you need to know you shield cap and shield recharge rate. So you do shield cap / shield recharge rate = xxx. The catch is shields are none linier so the lower the shields get the faster they charge up. At the fastest point around 30% shields are 2.4 ish times faster (if any devs are reading this please confirm if 2.4 is correct). So you do shield cap / shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy. Do not worry if the first 30 or even 50% of your shields go down fast its from 30 to 50% when your shields are strongest. Once the shields get lower then 20% ish (not sure on correct number) its time to warp out as you hit the point of no return. At this point shields recharge slows down so you getting less per second.
For example if my ship has a 9000 shield cap and a 500 second shield recharge rate my shield points per second would be 9000/500 * 2.4 = 43.2 points per second when less then 20% the 43.2 number drops the more I get below 20% the more the number drops. 90% also worse then 43.2 at 90% I get less then 20 points per second. 43.2 might not seem much but thatÆs per second. A large shield booster is 160 points over 4 seconds. So to compare you take yyyy in my case 43.2 and * by 4 = 172.8. Extra large shield boosters are over 5 seconds so to compare to that you would do yyy my case 43.2 b 5 = 215.
Please note the above shield cap and shield recharge rates are made up numbers to make the maths easier. My real numbers are higher.
The next question I get asked is whatÆs better shield extenders or shield recharges. The correct answer is a mix depending on ship. Fit all your mid slots with shield recharges now do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy
Now take off 1 mid shield cap / shield recharge rate =xxx and fit in a shield extender. Do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy if you get a higher number this time then your better off with a shield extender.
Next repeat the above step but take off a 2nd shield recharges and fit a 2nd shield extender. Do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy.
Keep doing the above at some point you will find taking off shield recharges and fitting in shield extender lowers the yyyy number. My ship turned out best with 3 shield extenders and 2 shield recharges.
Best module mid slots are shield extenders and shield recharges. In the low slots shield relays. Do not use shield flux. The flux module lowers your shield cap meaning you get less shield points per second.
If you use max shield relays your reactor will charge up very slow meaning this setup is not practical for some people. It works well on agent missions and for people who forgot to turn on boosters or are just too lazy to turn them on. If you need to PvP and use warp scrabbles and lots of cap draining modules passive setups should not work for you.
For those wonder lots of people have done level 3 agent missions with a passive setup. Some people like to lose a bit of passive setup and fit 1 to 4 hardeners.
If anyone has questions ask away. But please donÆt tell me boosters or amour tanking is better or worse. This is just another way to equip your ship. It has a different set of advantages and disadvantages. You might like it you might not.
EDIT: One thing a lot of people forget to take into account about passive setups is you donÆt need much cap recharge. Lots look at the recharge rate and go 2000, 3000 or even 6000 seconds reactor cap recharge rate that unusable. But they forget to take into account you donÆt have boosters draining the cap fast. A standard scorp battleship can run weapons and 3 active hardeners with missiles for 11 minuets without cap problems. That can easily be extended by training up reactor skills or using 1 nos. That 11 mins also does not take into account the cap you recarge back over 11 mins.
ThatÆs not always the case a full layout of target lock jamers, warp scramblers e.c.t is not a suitable setup for a passive tank.
EDIT 2: There are 6 new implants that help passive tanking and you can use two at once. 3 page has the implants listed.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.04 19:12:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Pottsey on 25/05/2005 19:47:12
EDIT: May 2005 update
Recent testing has made me believe the correct number is 2.5 at 30%. So please replace 2.4 with 2.5 in all the below text. That also throws the rest of the maths off a little.
Due to the amount of Eve mails I get asking how to passive tank I decided to post it here again. I donÆt want to this it turn into another is passive tanking worth or is it a waste of time argument read the numbers and methods and make your own mind up. This is purely to explain how to passive tank to cut down on the mail I get. I donÆt have a problem with people mailing me if you do get stuck. For those wondering the idea behind passive setups is if you run out of cap or someone useÆs Nos on you, your defence stays on max instead of turning off.
To work out your passive shield recharge rate you need to know you shield cap and shield recharge rate. So you do shield cap / shield recharge rate = xxx. The catch is shields are none linier so the lower the shields get the faster they charge up. At the fastest point around 30% shields are 2.4 ish times faster (if any devs are reading this please confirm if 2.4 is correct). So you do shield cap / shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy. Do not worry if the first 30 or even 50% of your shields go down fast its from 30 to 50% when your shields are strongest. Once the shields get lower then 20% ish (not sure on correct number) its time to warp out as you hit the point of no return. At this point shields recharge slows down so you getting less per second.
For example if my ship has a 9000 shield cap and a 500 second shield recharge rate my shield points per second would be 9000/500 * 2.4 = 43.2 points per second when less then 20% the 43.2 number drops the more I get below 20% the more the number drops. 90% also worse then 43.2 at 90% I get less then 20 points per second. 43.2 might not seem much but thatÆs per second. A large shield booster is 160 points over 4 seconds. So to compare you take yyyy in my case 43.2 and * by 4 = 172.8. Extra large shield boosters are over 5 seconds so to compare to that you would do yyy my case 43.2 b 5 = 215.
Please note the above shield cap and shield recharge rates are made up numbers to make the maths easier. My real numbers are higher.
The next question I get asked is whatÆs better shield extenders or shield recharges. The correct answer is a mix depending on ship. Fit all your mid slots with shield recharges now do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy
Now take off 1 mid shield cap / shield recharge rate =xxx and fit in a shield extender. Do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy if you get a higher number this time then your better off with a shield extender.
Next repeat the above step but take off a 2nd shield recharges and fit a 2nd shield extender. Do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy.
Keep doing the above at some point you will find taking off shield recharges and fitting in shield extender lowers the yyyy number. My ship turned out best with 3 shield extenders and 2 shield recharges.
Best module mid slots are shield extenders and shield recharges. In the low slots shield relays. Do not use shield flux. The flux module lowers your shield cap meaning you get less shield points per second.
If you use max shield relays your reactor will charge up very slow meaning this setup is not practical for some people. It works well on agent missions and for people who forgot to turn on boosters or are just too lazy to turn them on. If you need to PvP and use warp scrabbles and lots of cap draining modules passive setups should not work for you.
For those wonder lots of people have done level 3 agent missions with a passive setup. Some people like to lose a bit of passive setup and fit 1 to 4 hardeners.
If anyone has questions ask away. But please donÆt tell me boosters or amour tanking is better or worse. This is just another way to equip your ship. It has a different set of advantages and disadvantages. You might like it you might not.
EDIT: One thing a lot of people forget to take into account about passive setups is you donÆt need much cap recharge. Lots look at the recharge rate and go 2000, 3000 or even 6000 seconds reactor cap recharge rate that unusable. But they forget to take into account you donÆt have boosters draining the cap fast. A standard scorp battleship can run weapons and 3 active hardeners with missiles for 11 minuets without cap problems. That can easily be extended by training up reactor skills or using 1 nos. That 11 mins also does not take into account the cap you recarge back over 11 mins.
ThatÆs not always the case a full layout of target lock jamers, warp scramblers e.c.t is not a suitable setup for a passive tank.
EDIT 2: There are 6 new implants that help passive tanking and you can use two at once. 3 page has the implants listed.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.04 19:40:00 -
[3]
Thank you.
Two questions though:
1) Where did you get the 2.4 figure from? (I came up with a similar multiplier for cap recharge, so im thinking they might work the same.)
2) What ship do you use this on, and what cap recharge are you left with? (Can you for example still run a webber to get the NPC frigs?)
Thanks.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.04 19:40:00 -
[4]
Thank you.
Two questions though:
1) Where did you get the 2.4 figure from? (I came up with a similar multiplier for cap recharge, so im thinking they might work the same.)
2) What ship do you use this on, and what cap recharge are you left with? (Can you for example still run a webber to get the NPC frigs?)
Thanks.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.04 19:57:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Pottsey on 04/12/2004 20:01:18
ö1) Where did you get the 2.4 figure from? (I came up with a similar multiplier for cap recharge, so im thinking they might work the same.)ö
Someone told me the 2.4 figure for cap and after light testing it felt around about the same for shields. I have to stress I did not accurately test to check it was 2.4 but I would be surprised if it was vastly different from that. I really should do some better testing unless someone beats me to it. Part of my testing was letting ships shoot me if the number was a lot below 2.4 I would have died. I would say worse case its 2.2 best case its 2.6.
ö2) What ship do you use this on, and what cap recharge are you left with? (Can you for example still run a webber to get the NPC frigs?)ö
My recharge is 6398 seconds with level 1 cap regen skill. Using 1 less relay and swaping to 1 PDU cuts this down in half to 3000 seconds. Two PDUÆs and scarping two relays made a large difference at expense of shield regen. I live with the low cap recharge as its enough to shoot my hybrid weapons for without running out of cap. A webber is about 1 cap per second so it would lower my fire time down to 10 minutes. My ship is a Dominix and I did the maths for the webber not tested that one. So it might be a little off.
But if you use weapons that dont drain cap you have enough cap for more then 1 cap draining module.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.04 19:57:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Pottsey on 04/12/2004 20:01:18
ö1) Where did you get the 2.4 figure from? (I came up with a similar multiplier for cap recharge, so im thinking they might work the same.)ö
Someone told me the 2.4 figure for cap and after light testing it felt around about the same for shields. I have to stress I did not accurately test to check it was 2.4 but I would be surprised if it was vastly different from that. I really should do some better testing unless someone beats me to it. Part of my testing was letting ships shoot me if the number was a lot below 2.4 I would have died. I would say worse case its 2.2 best case its 2.6.
ö2) What ship do you use this on, and what cap recharge are you left with? (Can you for example still run a webber to get the NPC frigs?)ö
My recharge is 6398 seconds with level 1 cap regen skill. Using 1 less relay and swaping to 1 PDU cuts this down in half to 3000 seconds. Two PDUÆs and scarping two relays made a large difference at expense of shield regen. I live with the low cap recharge as its enough to shoot my hybrid weapons for without running out of cap. A webber is about 1 cap per second so it would lower my fire time down to 10 minutes. My ship is a Dominix and I did the maths for the webber not tested that one. So it might be a little off.
But if you use weapons that dont drain cap you have enough cap for more then 1 cap draining module.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.12.04 22:30:00 -
[7]
After running the numbers on a passive shield tank, I came to the conclusion that a scorp could run a passive-only shield tank with some success, and nothing else could. Your numbers on the dominix support this, since the recharge rate is barely better then a large tech2 booster, and you've sacrificed cap and hardening to get it. I can see no way in which a dominix would not be benefitted from either shield tanking properly and using 7 PDUs for cap, or going the armor tank route. Note that 7 PDUs, a large extender, and a large shield booster II with 3 hardeners would have the boost of the large booster augmented by a reasonable number of passively regenerated shield hitpoints.
The best passive-augmented tank setup that I can envision is on a scorp and as follows:
4x Siege (240 CPU, 7000 Grid)
2x Heavy Nosferatu (100 CPU, 4000 Grid)
1x Large Shield Booster II (100 CPU, 150 Grid)
3x Large Shield Extender IIs (300 CPU, 1200 Grid)
3x Named Hardeners (100 CPU, 3 Grid)
1x Cap Recharger II (15 CPU, 1 Grid)
4x PDU II (64 CPU)
Total: 919/937 CPU 12354/13674 Grid
With lvl 4 skills, this should have 13.5k shields and a recharge rate of 1121 seconds, giving a passive recharge (according to the equation that you're suggusting) of 29 shield HP/sec. It will also give a capacitor of 6.2k with a recharge rate of 390 seconds. That, combined with the nosferatu, should give you the cap to maintain the shield booster and hardeners.
A shield tank without hardeners is worth nothing. A ship that cannot even maintain the cap to run hardeners and weapons is worth nothing. I'm not saying passive shield tanking is worthless, but it is on a dominix.
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CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.12.04 22:30:00 -
[8]
After running the numbers on a passive shield tank, I came to the conclusion that a scorp could run a passive-only shield tank with some success, and nothing else could. Your numbers on the dominix support this, since the recharge rate is barely better then a large tech2 booster, and you've sacrificed cap and hardening to get it. I can see no way in which a dominix would not be benefitted from either shield tanking properly and using 7 PDUs for cap, or going the armor tank route. Note that 7 PDUs, a large extender, and a large shield booster II with 3 hardeners would have the boost of the large booster augmented by a reasonable number of passively regenerated shield hitpoints.
The best passive-augmented tank setup that I can envision is on a scorp and as follows:
4x Siege (240 CPU, 7000 Grid)
2x Heavy Nosferatu (100 CPU, 4000 Grid)
1x Large Shield Booster II (100 CPU, 150 Grid)
3x Large Shield Extender IIs (300 CPU, 1200 Grid)
3x Named Hardeners (100 CPU, 3 Grid)
1x Cap Recharger II (15 CPU, 1 Grid)
4x PDU II (64 CPU)
Total: 919/937 CPU 12354/13674 Grid
With lvl 4 skills, this should have 13.5k shields and a recharge rate of 1121 seconds, giving a passive recharge (according to the equation that you're suggusting) of 29 shield HP/sec. It will also give a capacitor of 6.2k with a recharge rate of 390 seconds. That, combined with the nosferatu, should give you the cap to maintain the shield booster and hardeners.
A shield tank without hardeners is worth nothing. A ship that cannot even maintain the cap to run hardeners and weapons is worth nothing. I'm not saying passive shield tanking is worthless, but it is on a dominix.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.04 22:58:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Pottsey on 04/12/2004 23:12:51
ôThe best passive-augmented tank setup that I can envision is on a scorp and as follows:ö & öWith lvl 4 skills, this should have 13.5k shields and a recharge rate of 1121 seconds, giving a passive recharge (according to the equation that you're suggusting) of 29 shield HP/sec.ö
ThatÆs very poor 29 per second is not worth it. I donÆt mean to be rude but thatÆs hardly a passive setup. Try taking out the cap recharger, PDUÆs and booster. Swap in shield relays, and an extra mid slot large shield extender or recharge. Then see what you shield points per second are. There is little point in having the cap recharger and PDUÆs as without the booster hardly anything drains cap.
Your setup is only getting 89 shield points per second with the booster mixed with a passive setup. Do you mind trying a fully passive setup without the booster and seeing what you get? Keep the hardeners in if you use them. You should be able to break 100 points per second without the cap drain from a booster.
ôYour numbers on the dominix support this, since the recharge rate is barely better then a large tech2 booster,ö
I didnÆt compare against the T2 boosters as I didnÆt think it was far to compare a mostly T1 setup against a T2 setup. Not sure how you got a Dominix passive setup is barely better then a T2 booster. A Dominix Passive setup with T1 low slot modules is 432 over 4 seconds while the T2 large booster is 240 over 4 seconds. Well to be far with passive hardeners my passive charge over 4 seconds is 294.2 the 432 number is without hardners. I am still playing around with how many hardners to use.
ôA shield tank without hardeners is worth nothing. A ship that cannot even maintain the cap to run hardeners and weapons is worth nothing. I'm not saying passive shield tanking is worthless, but it is on a dominix.ö
I think your missing the point. The point of a passive setup is to use passive modules. You donÆt use hardeners that use up cap along with boosters that would be a active setup not passive though you can use 1 or two active modules with little problem. You can use cap draining modules but its not recommended unless its like a hardner that use's up 2 cap a second or less. The only cap draining modules I use are sometimes 1 after burner and 6 blasters. My Dominix can keep its weapons fireing for 11 Minuets and that can be extended by training up my skills. Its not often battles last 11 minuets or longer if they do use 1 Nos or weapons that dont drain cap. Mind you if your a laser user I would keep away from a passive setup. I have head laser user's useing passive setups but it does not seem like a good idea to me.
I agree a ship without hardeners is nothing thatÆs why I use some on my Dominix I have with T1 modules
Em 32%
Explosive 60%
Kinetic 40%
Thermal 50%
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.04 22:58:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Pottsey on 04/12/2004 23:12:51
ôThe best passive-augmented tank setup that I can envision is on a scorp and as follows:ö & öWith lvl 4 skills, this should have 13.5k shields and a recharge rate of 1121 seconds, giving a passive recharge (according to the equation that you're suggusting) of 29 shield HP/sec.ö
ThatÆs very poor 29 per second is not worth it. I donÆt mean to be rude but thatÆs hardly a passive setup. Try taking out the cap recharger, PDUÆs and booster. Swap in shield relays, and an extra mid slot large shield extender or recharge. Then see what you shield points per second are. There is little point in having the cap recharger and PDUÆs as without the booster hardly anything drains cap.
Your setup is only getting 89 shield points per second with the booster mixed with a passive setup. Do you mind trying a fully passive setup without the booster and seeing what you get? Keep the hardeners in if you use them. You should be able to break 100 points per second without the cap drain from a booster.
ôYour numbers on the dominix support this, since the recharge rate is barely better then a large tech2 booster,ö
I didnÆt compare against the T2 boosters as I didnÆt think it was far to compare a mostly T1 setup against a T2 setup. Not sure how you got a Dominix passive setup is barely better then a T2 booster. A Dominix Passive setup with T1 low slot modules is 432 over 4 seconds while the T2 large booster is 240 over 4 seconds. Well to be far with passive hardeners my passive charge over 4 seconds is 294.2 the 432 number is without hardners. I am still playing around with how many hardners to use.
ôA shield tank without hardeners is worth nothing. A ship that cannot even maintain the cap to run hardeners and weapons is worth nothing. I'm not saying passive shield tanking is worthless, but it is on a dominix.ö
I think your missing the point. The point of a passive setup is to use passive modules. You donÆt use hardeners that use up cap along with boosters that would be a active setup not passive though you can use 1 or two active modules with little problem. You can use cap draining modules but its not recommended unless its like a hardner that use's up 2 cap a second or less. The only cap draining modules I use are sometimes 1 after burner and 6 blasters. My Dominix can keep its weapons fireing for 11 Minuets and that can be extended by training up my skills. Its not often battles last 11 minuets or longer if they do use 1 Nos or weapons that dont drain cap. Mind you if your a laser user I would keep away from a passive setup. I have head laser user's useing passive setups but it does not seem like a good idea to me.
I agree a ship without hardeners is nothing thatÆs why I use some on my Dominix I have with T1 modules
Em 32%
Explosive 60%
Kinetic 40%
Thermal 50%
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
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In'q
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Posted - 2004.12.04 23:10:00 -
[11]
Thank you for posting this Pottsey, I was considering evemailing you for an example, but this takes care of that. Keep up the good work on funny setups. 
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In'q
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Posted - 2004.12.04 23:10:00 -
[12]
Thank you for posting this Pottsey, I was considering evemailing you for an example, but this takes care of that. Keep up the good work on funny setups.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.04 23:20:00 -
[13]
Going back to Pandora Panda hrybid setup mixing passive and boosters has anyone made this work and managed to break 100+ shield points per second? I failed every time I tried as I would run out of cap to fast.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.04 23:20:00 -
[14]
Going back to Pandora Panda hrybid setup mixing passive and boosters has anyone made this work and managed to break 100+ shield points per second? I failed every time I tried as I would run out of cap to fast.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.12.05 02:07:00 -
[15]
 Originally by: Pottsey
Going back to Pandora Panda hrybid setup mixing passive and boosters has anyone made this work and managed to break 100+ shield points per second? I failed every time I tried as I would run out of cap to fast.
Drop a kinetic hardener or the cap recharger for a shield boost amp. That'll put it over 100 at peak, with the advantage of actually having some shield recharge once you drop below the peak passive recharge point.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.12.05 02:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Pottsey
Going back to Pandora Panda hrybid setup mixing passive and boosters has anyone made this work and managed to break 100+ shield points per second? I failed every time I tried as I would run out of cap to fast.
Drop a kinetic hardener or the cap recharger for a shield boost amp. That'll put it over 100 at peak, with the advantage of actually having some shield recharge once you drop below the peak passive recharge point.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Artemeis Borshann
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Posted - 2004.12.05 02:16:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Artemeis Borshann on 05/12/2004 02:22:57
Passive tanking is certainly an interesting idea.
I haven't tried it yet, but since it's mainly for agent running and NPC fighting, if you know what you'll be fighting and what damage they mete out, using 1 or 2 specific passive shield amplifiers might help. Just get the whole range and swap the right ones in before a mission.
Pottsey, have you looked into that yourself?
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Artemeis Borshann
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Posted - 2004.12.05 02:16:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Artemeis Borshann on 05/12/2004 02:22:57
Passive tanking is certainly an interesting idea.
I haven't tried it yet, but since it's mainly for agent running and NPC fighting, if you know what you'll be fighting and what damage they mete out, using 1 or 2 specific passive shield amplifiers might help. Just get the whole range and swap the right ones in before a mission.
Pottsey, have you looked into that yourself?
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caligi malus
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Posted - 2004.12.05 02:55:00 -
[19]
This is an interesting Topic, one i have considered before. Im glad that you managed to come up with a workable setup :)
I Think the key issue though, is the length of time that this setup can last. 11min is a long time in combat, and ideally suited to Multi-Wave agent missions. However a PVP battle that lasts past 60s is unusual.
Pottsey: have you tried passively tanking a cruiser class? or would that simply give too low an output due to lack of slots?
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caligi malus
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Posted - 2004.12.05 02:55:00 -
[20]
This is an interesting Topic, one i have considered before. Im glad that you managed to come up with a workable setup :)
I Think the key issue though, is the length of time that this setup can last. 11min is a long time in combat, and ideally suited to Multi-Wave agent missions. However a PVP battle that lasts past 60s is unusual.
Pottsey: have you tried passively tanking a cruiser class? or would that simply give too low an output due to lack of slots?
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.05 10:12:00 -
[21]
öPottsey: have you tried passively tanking a cruiser class? or would that simply give too low an output due to lack of slots?ö
It works well on a mark 5 Indi which has loads of slots but little cap making boosters hard to run. But that does mean cutting down on cargo space from lack of cargo expander at the same time you donÆt have expander slowing your top speed down.
I did a quick test with an Exequror Crusier but I was in the wrong base so didnÆt have the best equipment. I got 18.4 per second using T1 modules and 2 slots free for hardeners or other modules. Not that good really worse then a T1 mid booster.
ôJust get the whole range and swap the right ones in before a mission.ö
Right now I just use one setup that covers everything as I never no what weapons will be used if someone does catchÆs me and forceÆs me into PvP. But for the hard level 3 missions and for sure level 4 missions thatÆs a good idea I didnÆt think off.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.05 10:12:00 -
[22]
öPottsey: have you tried passively tanking a cruiser class? or would that simply give too low an output due to lack of slots?ö
It works well on a mark 5 Indi which has loads of slots but little cap making boosters hard to run. But that does mean cutting down on cargo space from lack of cargo expander at the same time you donÆt have expander slowing your top speed down.
I did a quick test with an Exequror Crusier but I was in the wrong base so didnÆt have the best equipment. I got 18.4 per second using T1 modules and 2 slots free for hardeners or other modules. Not that good really worse then a T1 mid booster.
ôJust get the whole range and swap the right ones in before a mission.ö
Right now I just use one setup that covers everything as I never no what weapons will be used if someone does catchÆs me and forceÆs me into PvP. But for the hard level 3 missions and for sure level 4 missions thatÆs a good idea I didnÆt think off.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Thomas Torquemada
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Posted - 2004.12.05 11:25:00 -
[23]
Anyone tried the Ferox esp with its better shield resistances.
UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace?
Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide!
Peace My Brothers... |
Thomas Torquemada
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Posted - 2004.12.05 11:25:00 -
[24]
Anyone tried the Ferox esp with its better shield resistances.
UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace?
Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide!
Peace My Brothers... |
Ryo Jang
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Posted - 2004.12.07 02:46:00 -
[25]
im interested in how this might work on smaller ships. i currently have a cormorant, great ship, but with all the disadvantages a small ship has when it comes to cap and shield. which sucks, because i have 4 med slots and only 1 low slot..
i currently run an active shield tank, with 2 small cap rechargers and 2 small shield boosters. 1 is usually enough, but the second is there if i need 2x the boosting. working well so far.
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Ryo Jang
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Posted - 2004.12.07 02:46:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Ryo Jang on 07/12/2004 02:49:54
double posting sucks!
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Ryo Jang
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Posted - 2004.12.07 02:46:00 -
[27]
im interested in how this might work on smaller ships. i currently have a cormorant, great ship, but with all the disadvantages a small ship has when it comes to cap and shield. which sucks, because i have 4 med slots and only 1 low slot..
i currently run an active shield tank, with 2 small cap rechargers and 2 small shield boosters. 1 is usually enough, but the second is there if i need 2x the boosting. working well so far.
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Ryo Jang
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Posted - 2004.12.07 02:46:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Ryo Jang on 07/12/2004 02:49:54
double posting sucks!
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Deianeira
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Posted - 2004.12.07 09:25:00 -
[29]
Did anybody do some testing on the assault ships (frigs and especially cruisers)? They have natural high resistances (like mentioned before). An assault cruiser with this setup might be very hard to counter.
What you do in life ... echoes in eternity
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Deianeira
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Posted - 2004.12.07 09:25:00 -
[30]
Did anybody do some testing on the assault ships (frigs and especially cruisers)? They have natural high resistances (like mentioned before). An assault cruiser with this setup might be very hard to counter.
What you do in life ... echoes in eternity
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MaximvS
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Posted - 2004.12.07 09:41:00 -
[31]
I agree it would be nice to see some examples for something like a Moa and also a Ferox if possible please. 
-----------------------------------------------------
Member of STK Scientific [STK-S]. Come see us at http://www.stkscientific.com |
MaximvS
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Posted - 2004.12.07 09:41:00 -
[32]
I agree it would be nice to see some examples for something like a Moa and also a Ferox if possible please.
-----------------------------------------------------
Member of STK Scientific [STK-S]. Come see us at http://www.stkscientific.com |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.12.07 09:55:00 -
[33]
the magic value is 2.5
but 2.4 is pretty close so it works 
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.12.07 09:55:00 -
[34]
the magic value is 2.5
but 2.4 is pretty close so it works
Greetings Grim |
qrac
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Posted - 2004.12.07 10:49:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Grim Vandal
the magic value is 2.5
but 2.4 is pretty close so it works
the magic value explained by dust puppy.
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
qrac
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Posted - 2004.12.07 10:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Grim Vandal
the magic value is 2.5
but 2.4 is pretty close so it works
the magic value explained by dust puppy.
-------------------------------------------
Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Jonas Bane
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Posted - 2004.12.07 12:30:00 -
[37]
With this "no MWD" thing in deadspace missions, I tried on a whim playing around with passive shield setups on my Thorax. Pretty amazed at how well it worked. I could run an oversided AB all day now that cap wasn't an issue. I wouldn't trust it yet in PvP or a tough agent mission, but it has made me change over to shield improving skills for the time being. =)
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Jonas Bane
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Posted - 2004.12.07 12:30:00 -
[38]
With this "no MWD" thing in deadspace missions, I tried on a whim playing around with passive shield setups on my Thorax. Pretty amazed at how well it worked. I could run an oversided AB all day now that cap wasn't an issue. I wouldn't trust it yet in PvP or a tough agent mission, but it has made me change over to shield improving skills for the time being. =)
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.07 17:41:00 -
[39]
ö Did anybody do some testing on the assault ships (frigs and especially cruisers)?ö
Sorry not got the skill to fly those so I cannot test.
ôthe magic value explained by dust puppy.ö
But that post by Dust Puppy was about reactor cap. We are assuming shield rechargeÆs in the same way as reactor cap. But no one has ever done a detailed test as far as I now. There is always the chance shield cap recharges slower or faster then the reactor cap.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.07 17:41:00 -
[40]
ö Did anybody do some testing on the assault ships (frigs and especially cruisers)?ö
Sorry not got the skill to fly those so I cannot test.
ôthe magic value explained by dust puppy.ö
But that post by Dust Puppy was about reactor cap. We are assuming shield rechargeÆs in the same way as reactor cap. But no one has ever done a detailed test as far as I now. There is always the chance shield cap recharges slower or faster then the reactor cap.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
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starfox2004
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Posted - 2004.12.07 19:28:00 -
[41]
Hi Pottsey !
Quick question if possible ? im absolutely naff at maths so i would like to take this opportunity to ask your advice and see if you could reccomend the best passive results for a tempest !
Thanx for your time =)
p.s i would really appreciate it and be your minmatar slave for life 
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starfox2004
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Posted - 2004.12.07 19:28:00 -
[42]
Hi Pottsey !
Quick question if possible ? im absolutely naff at maths so i would like to take this opportunity to ask your advice and see if you could reccomend the best passive results for a tempest !
Thanx for your time =)
p.s i would really appreciate it and be your minmatar slave for life
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.07 20:20:00 -
[43]
Being a Gallente pilot I cannot fly and test the Tempest. I have been told it makes a good ship but donÆt know for sure. If I had one I would be tempted to try 6 shield relays in the low slots. 3 large shield extender in the mid slot. 1 shield recharger mid slot. For the last mid slot either a passive EM shield hardener or another shield extender. I might even scarp the shield recharger and fit in a 2nd hardener.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.07 20:20:00 -
[44]
Being a Gallente pilot I cannot fly and test the Tempest. I have been told it makes a good ship but donÆt know for sure. If I had one I would be tempted to try 6 shield relays in the low slots. 3 large shield extender in the mid slot. 1 shield recharger mid slot. For the last mid slot either a passive EM shield hardener or another shield extender. I might even scarp the shield recharger and fit in a 2nd hardener.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
X'Alor
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Posted - 2004.12.07 20:28:00 -
[45]
I hadn't messed with it but looks as tho if cap issues were a concern that this type of setup would be ideal for a battery or more likely a cap booster if one had or used cap draining items or worried about defending against full cap drain by nos attack.
but then again that's what the passive setup seems to be built to defend against in the first place.
nice, very interesting. scary but interesting.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2004.12.07 20:28:00 -
[46]
I hadn't messed with it but looks as tho if cap issues were a concern that this type of setup would be ideal for a battery or more likely a cap booster if one had or used cap draining items or worried about defending against full cap drain by nos attack.
but then again that's what the passive setup seems to be built to defend against in the first place.
nice, very interesting. scary but interesting.
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Terradoct
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Posted - 2004.12.09 16:06:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Terradoct on 09/12/2004 16:10:44
Pottsey, how big number you got in formula (cap capascity)/(cap recharge)*2,4 on your Domenyx using passive shielding?
How big this number must be?
Have you tryed it in PvP?
Also I'm intrested in geting T2 Shield recharges and Shield Power Relays. Anyone have info on where or from whom I cang et thous items?
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Terradoct
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Posted - 2004.12.09 16:06:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Terradoct on 09/12/2004 16:10:44
Pottsey, how big number you got in formula (cap capascity)/(cap recharge)*2,4 on your Domenyx using passive shielding?
How big this number must be?
Have you tryed it in PvP?
Also I'm intrested in geting T2 Shield recharges and Shield Power Relays. Anyone have info on where or from whom I cang et thous items?
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.09 17:15:00 -
[49]
"Pottsey, how big number you got in formula (cap capascity)/(cap recharge)*2,4 on your Domenyx using passive shielding?"
The best I pulled off is 108 a second while in a group. Without a group 102.
My favourite setup is lower and I forgot the details. It was 2 hardeners which lowered the total shield recharge down to 80 or 90ish but due to the hardeners I could take more EM and Thermal damage.
"How big this number must be?"
ThatÆs hard to say and it depends on what you do. If you want to have the same shield recharge as a T1 large shield booster then you need have 40 per second. If you want to have the same shield recharge as a T2 large shield booster you need to get 60 per second. An Extra large shield booster T1 is 80 per second.
öHave you tryed it in PvP?ö
Yes I had friendly PvP matchÆs against corp mates in Scorp Battleships. None of them managed to take my shields down even when they used EM and I had no EM hardeners on. Only ever gone against Scorp battleships so I have no idea how it holds out against other Battleships.
öAlso I'm intrested in geting T2 Shield recharges and Shield Power Relays. Anyone have info on where or from whom I cang et thous items?ö
Good luck, it took me months to find T2 shield recharges. I ended up placing buy orders and asking on market between 2 to 4million one I bought at 20 million but 4 is the normal price. I never did find anyone who could build them, only people who had them laying around for sale. As for the T2 shield relays I donÆt think anyone can build them yet, as I have not found any to buy.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.09 17:15:00 -
[50]
"Pottsey, how big number you got in formula (cap capascity)/(cap recharge)*2,4 on your Domenyx using passive shielding?"
The best I pulled off is 108 a second while in a group. Without a group 102.
My favourite setup is lower and I forgot the details. It was 2 hardeners which lowered the total shield recharge down to 80 or 90ish but due to the hardeners I could take more EM and Thermal damage.
"How big this number must be?"
ThatÆs hard to say and it depends on what you do. If you want to have the same shield recharge as a T1 large shield booster then you need have 40 per second. If you want to have the same shield recharge as a T2 large shield booster you need to get 60 per second. An Extra large shield booster T1 is 80 per second.
öHave you tryed it in PvP?ö
Yes I had friendly PvP matchÆs against corp mates in Scorp Battleships. None of them managed to take my shields down even when they used EM and I had no EM hardeners on. Only ever gone against Scorp battleships so I have no idea how it holds out against other Battleships.
öAlso I'm intrested in geting T2 Shield recharges and Shield Power Relays. Anyone have info on where or from whom I cang et thous items?ö
Good luck, it took me months to find T2 shield recharges. I ended up placing buy orders and asking on market between 2 to 4million one I bought at 20 million but 4 is the normal price. I never did find anyone who could build them, only people who had them laying around for sale. As for the T2 shield relays I donÆt think anyone can build them yet, as I have not found any to buy.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
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Terradoct
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Posted - 2004.12.09 17:50:00 -
[51]
thank you, I'll keep trying on geting my hand on thous T2 recharges.
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Terradoct
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Posted - 2004.12.09 17:50:00 -
[52]
thank you, I'll keep trying on geting my hand on thous T2 recharges.
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Workdawg
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Posted - 2004.12.09 18:57:00 -
[53]
this sounds like a very interesting topic, i never knew that i could work so well. i fly a tempest and have a very good armor tank going on right now, so i dont really intend to switch to shield, but i was wondering one thing.
you mention cap recharge curve being very similar, if not the same as the shield curve. could i use the same method you use to calculate shield tanking, for my own cap recharge?
(max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4
also, if you know the answer to this, at what point is the 2.4 multiplier in effect, 20-30% cap?
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Workdawg
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Posted - 2004.12.09 18:57:00 -
[54]
this sounds like a very interesting topic, i never knew that i could work so well. i fly a tempest and have a very good armor tank going on right now, so i dont really intend to switch to shield, but i was wondering one thing.
you mention cap recharge curve being very similar, if not the same as the shield curve. could i use the same method you use to calculate shield tanking, for my own cap recharge?
(max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4
also, if you know the answer to this, at what point is the 2.4 multiplier in effect, 20-30% cap?
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.09 19:19:00 -
[55]
ôcould i use the same method you use to calculate shield tanking, for my own cap recharge?
(max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4
also, if you know the answer to this, at what point is the 2.4 multiplier in effect, 20-30% cap?ö
Yes you can use (max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4. In fact I borrowed the reactor cap math and used in on the shields so its more accurate/correct for the reactor cap. 2.4 multiplier is in effect at 30%cap give or take 2%. Shields donÆt seem to be the same which is why I say 20-30 for shields.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.09 19:19:00 -
[56]
ôcould i use the same method you use to calculate shield tanking, for my own cap recharge?
(max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4
also, if you know the answer to this, at what point is the 2.4 multiplier in effect, 20-30% cap?ö
Yes you can use (max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4. In fact I borrowed the reactor cap math and used in on the shields so its more accurate/correct for the reactor cap. 2.4 multiplier is in effect at 30%cap give or take 2%. Shields donÆt seem to be the same which is why I say 20-30 for shields.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Workdawg
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Posted - 2004.12.09 19:36:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôcould i use the same method you use to calculate shield tanking, for my own cap recharge?
(max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4
also, if you know the answer to this, at what point is the 2.4 multiplier in effect, 20-30% cap?ö
Yes you can use (max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4. In fact I borrowed the reactor cap math and used in on the shields so its more accurate/correct for the reactor cap. 2.4 multiplier is in effect at 30%cap give or take 2%. Shields donÆt seem to be the same which is why I say 20-30 for shields.
thanks for your quick reply, when you say the multiplier is in effect at 30%, does that mean that below 30%, i will actually get faster recharge?
also, in follow up to my first post, would using a combonation of cap batteries and rechargers yield a potentially better figure as far as cap recharged per second? as opposed to just going with straight rechargers
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Workdawg
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Posted - 2004.12.09 19:36:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôcould i use the same method you use to calculate shield tanking, for my own cap recharge?
(max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4
also, if you know the answer to this, at what point is the 2.4 multiplier in effect, 20-30% cap?ö
Yes you can use (max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4. In fact I borrowed the reactor cap math and used in on the shields so its more accurate/correct for the reactor cap. 2.4 multiplier is in effect at 30%cap give or take 2%. Shields donÆt seem to be the same which is why I say 20-30 for shields.
thanks for your quick reply, when you say the multiplier is in effect at 30%, does that mean that below 30%, i will actually get faster recharge?
also, in follow up to my first post, would using a combonation of cap batteries and rechargers yield a potentially better figure as far as cap recharged per second? as opposed to just going with straight rechargers
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.09 19:54:00 -
[59]
öThanks for your quick reply, when you say the multiplier is in effect at 30%, does that mean that below 30%, i will actually get faster recharge?ô
It gets slower under 30% the lower it gets the slower it gets.
öalso, in follow up to my first post, would using a combonation of cap batteries and rechargers yield a potentially better figure as far as cap recharged per second? as opposed to just going with straight rechargersô
Cap batteries and recharges are better then pure recharges. The same is for shields. Shield extenders and shield recharges are better then pure shield recharges.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.09 19:54:00 -
[60]
öThanks for your quick reply, when you say the multiplier is in effect at 30%, does that mean that below 30%, i will actually get faster recharge?ô
It gets slower under 30% the lower it gets the slower it gets.
öalso, in follow up to my first post, would using a combonation of cap batteries and rechargers yield a potentially better figure as far as cap recharged per second? as opposed to just going with straight rechargersô
Cap batteries and recharges are better then pure recharges. The same is for shields. Shield extenders and shield recharges are better then pure shield recharges.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.12.09 19:56:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Workdawg
thanks for your quick reply, when you say the multiplier is in effect at 30%, does that mean that below 30%, i will actually get faster recharge?
No you would get less recharge rate and furthermore the 2.4 multiplier is only in effect for infinitly small time so it is to be expected that you would experience a recharge a little bit less than that. I analytically proved to myself that the maximum recharge of the curve peaks at just over 29%.
Originally by: Workdawg
also, in follow up to my first post, would using a combonation of cap batteries and rechargers yield a potentially better figure as far as cap recharged per second? as opposed to just going with straight rechargers
Depends on your cap. If you have a large capacity but high recharge time you might be better off with using a recharger but for most cases it's better to use cap battery but that it is much harder to fit.
__________
Capacitor research |
Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.12.09 19:56:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Workdawg
thanks for your quick reply, when you say the multiplier is in effect at 30%, does that mean that below 30%, i will actually get faster recharge?
No you would get less recharge rate and furthermore the 2.4 multiplier is only in effect for infinitly small time so it is to be expected that you would experience a recharge a little bit less than that. I analytically proved to myself that the maximum recharge of the curve peaks at just over 29%.
Originally by: Workdawg
also, in follow up to my first post, would using a combonation of cap batteries and rechargers yield a potentially better figure as far as cap recharged per second? as opposed to just going with straight rechargers
Depends on your cap. If you have a large capacity but high recharge time you might be better off with using a recharger but for most cases it's better to use cap battery but that it is much harder to fit.
__________
Capacitor research |
Ra'Ken
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Posted - 2004.12.10 13:17:00 -
[63]
A large shield booster is 160 points over 4 seconds. So to compare you take yyyy in my case 43.2 and * by 4 = 172.8. Extra large shield boosters are over 5 seconds so to compare to that you would do yyy my case 43.2 b 5 = 215.
Didn't understand this part. Can see where *4 (or *5) comes from, but fail to see where 160 disappears. Could you elaborate a bit?
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Ra'Ken
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Posted - 2004.12.10 13:17:00 -
[64]
A large shield booster is 160 points over 4 seconds. So to compare you take yyyy in my case 43.2 and * by 4 = 172.8. Extra large shield boosters are over 5 seconds so to compare to that you would do yyy my case 43.2 b 5 = 215.
Didn't understand this part. Can see where *4 (or *5) comes from, but fail to see where 160 disappears. Could you elaborate a bit?
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.12.10 13:49:00 -
[65]
She's just saying how much she recharges over 4 and 5 seconds so she can compare with the large and extra large shield booster. So when large shield booster repairs 160 every 4 seconds her passive shield tank repairs 172 in for seconds. Similarly when X-large shield booster repairs 400 every 5 seconds the passive shield tanker repairs 215 ever 5 seconds.
Of course Pottsay ignores the fact that active shield tankers still have shield that recharges to
__________
Capacitor research |
Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.12.10 13:49:00 -
[66]
She's just saying how much she recharges over 4 and 5 seconds so she can compare with the large and extra large shield booster. So when large shield booster repairs 160 every 4 seconds her passive shield tank repairs 172 in for seconds. Similarly when X-large shield booster repairs 400 every 5 seconds the passive shield tanker repairs 215 ever 5 seconds.
Of course Pottsay ignores the fact that active shield tankers still have shield that recharges to
__________
Capacitor research |
DeFood
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Posted - 2004.12.10 14:26:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Dust Puppy
She's just saying how much she recharges over 4 and 5 seconds so she can compare with the large and extra large shield booster. So when large shield booster repairs 160 every 4 seconds her passive shield tank repairs 172 in for seconds. Similarly when X-large shield booster repairs 400 every 5 seconds the passive shield tanker repairs 215 ever 5 seconds.
Of course Pottsay ignores the fact that active shield tankers still have shield that recharges to
Ah yes. By contrast an Apocylapse has 3975 shield with a recharge of 2000 sec. for a 1.99 shield per second average, or 4.77 peak per second regeneration, or an extra 23.85 shield hitpoints per 5 seconds. Not sure how the other battleships play out at base regen rates.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.12.10 14:26:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Dust Puppy
She's just saying how much she recharges over 4 and 5 seconds so she can compare with the large and extra large shield booster. So when large shield booster repairs 160 every 4 seconds her passive shield tank repairs 172 in for seconds. Similarly when X-large shield booster repairs 400 every 5 seconds the passive shield tanker repairs 215 ever 5 seconds.
Of course Pottsay ignores the fact that active shield tankers still have shield that recharges to
Ah yes. By contrast an Apocylapse has 3975 shield with a recharge of 2000 sec. for a 1.99 shield per second average, or 4.77 peak per second regeneration, or an extra 23.85 shield hitpoints per 5 seconds. Not sure how the other battleships play out at base regen rates.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.16 18:04:00 -
[69]
Must have skills for passive shield tanking. The nice thing about passive tanking is the needed skills are all low rank so easy to train.
Rank 1 Engineering at least to level 3. I assume most people have this at level 5 anyway. ItÆs a must have skill for just about everyone.
Rank 1 Science at level 1. Needed before you can train up certain shield skills.
Rank 1 Shield Operation take to level 5, gives 5% shield recharge boost per level
Rank 3 Shield Management take to Level 5, gives 5% shield cap per level
Rank 2 Energy Grid upgrades at level 2 needed for PDUÆs and Shield relays.
Rank 2 leadership at Level 2 Only needed if you plan to use Escort Tactics.
Rank 2 Shield upgrades at lest level 3, 5% less power needs for shield extender and recharges. Needed at level 3 for Large shield extenders T2. Needed at Level 4 if you use T2 shield recharges.
Rank 2 Escort Tactics gives 2% extra shield cap per level when in a group. Very nice if you spend time in groups. If you solo then itÆs a waste of time.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.16 18:04:00 -
[70]
Must have skills for passive shield tanking. The nice thing about passive tanking is the needed skills are all low rank so easy to train.
Rank 1 Engineering at least to level 3. I assume most people have this at level 5 anyway. ItÆs a must have skill for just about everyone.
Rank 1 Science at level 1. Needed before you can train up certain shield skills.
Rank 1 Shield Operation take to level 5, gives 5% shield recharge boost per level
Rank 3 Shield Management take to Level 5, gives 5% shield cap per level
Rank 2 Energy Grid upgrades at level 2 needed for PDUÆs and Shield relays.
Rank 2 leadership at Level 2 Only needed if you plan to use Escort Tactics.
Rank 2 Shield upgrades at lest level 3, 5% less power needs for shield extender and recharges. Needed at level 3 for Large shield extenders T2. Needed at Level 4 if you use T2 shield recharges.
Rank 2 Escort Tactics gives 2% extra shield cap per level when in a group. Very nice if you spend time in groups. If you solo then itÆs a waste of time.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
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Damien Vox
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Posted - 2004.12.16 19:48:00 -
[71]
All those numbers confused me...
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Damien Vox
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Posted - 2004.12.16 19:48:00 -
[72]
All those numbers confused me...
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Sun Sliver
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Posted - 2004.12.18 01:46:00 -
[73]
friendly bump - I like this idea good to see new things being tried. props to Pottsey 
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Sun Sliver
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Posted - 2004.12.18 01:46:00 -
[74]
friendly bump - I like this idea good to see new things being tried. props to Pottsey
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Jennifer Danz
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Posted - 2004.12.18 10:19:00 -
[75]
I plan to Boostless Tank my Vagabond.
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Jennifer Danz
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Posted - 2004.12.18 10:19:00 -
[76]
I plan to Boostless Tank my Vagabond.
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Narcissa
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Posted - 2004.12.20 08:52:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Narcissa on 20/12/2004 09:29:30
Edited by: Narcissa on 20/12/2004 08:55:41
Edited by: Narcissa on 20/12/2004 08:54:08
Thank you Pottsey for sharing this idea.
I just picked up a Ferox at the weekend, as my Moa just doesn't cut it on L3 missions any more, and followed your guidelines for passive tanking. Most of my required skills are at 3 or 4, Engineering at 5 for grid. Around 1.5 mill SP in combat skills.
I took it out for about a dozen missions with a few close moments in dead space, but the shield held on every mission. Those times when the shield falls below 30% something needs to be done to decrease the incoming damage as the last part of the shield goes quickly.
Shield Cap 6336 over 311 secs giving a regen of 50.9/second
Ferox setup as follows:
Hi-
5*Heavy missile Launcher
2*Heavy Electron Blaster
Mid-
2*Large Shield Extender II
2*Shield Recharge I
1*10mw AB I
Low-
3*Shield Power Relay I
1*Power Diagnostic I
Lots of room for improvement there, now if I can only find some tech II rechargers and relays.
Narc
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Narcissa
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Posted - 2004.12.20 08:52:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Narcissa on 20/12/2004 09:29:30
Edited by: Narcissa on 20/12/2004 08:55:41
Edited by: Narcissa on 20/12/2004 08:54:08
Thank you Pottsey for sharing this idea.
I just picked up a Ferox at the weekend, as my Moa just doesn't cut it on L3 missions any more, and followed your guidelines for passive tanking. Most of my required skills are at 3 or 4, Engineering at 5 for grid. Around 1.5 mill SP in combat skills.
I took it out for about a dozen missions with a few close moments in dead space, but the shield held on every mission. Those times when the shield falls below 30% something needs to be done to decrease the incoming damage as the last part of the shield goes quickly.
Shield Cap 6336 over 311 secs giving a regen of 50.9/second
Ferox setup as follows:
Hi-
5*Heavy missile Launcher
2*Heavy Electron Blaster
Mid-
2*Large Shield Extender II
2*Shield Recharge I
1*10mw AB I
Low-
3*Shield Power Relay I
1*Power Diagnostic I
Lots of room for improvement there, now if I can only find some tech II rechargers and relays.
Narc
|
Pyr8
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 14:01:00 -
[79]
Best thread I have read in a long time...
I'm interested to see how a passive setup fairs while sentry tanking I don't quite think it will cut it tbh.. but will be fun finding out
|
Pyr8
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 14:01:00 -
[80]
Best thread I have read in a long time...
I'm interested to see how a passive setup fairs while sentry tanking I don't quite think it will cut it tbh.. but will be fun finding out
|
|
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Damocles Ician
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 14:20:00 -
[81]
You can always get the following implant from agent missions:-
1 x Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gnome' KUA2000 (-5% shield upgrade module power needs)
-------------
|
Damocles Ician
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 14:20:00 -
[82]
You can always get the following implant from agent missions:-
1 x Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gnome' KUA2000 (-5% shield upgrade module power needs)
-------------
|
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:56:00 -
[83]
öFerox setup as follows:
Hi-
5*Heavy missile Launcher
2*Heavy Electron Blaster
Mid-
2*Large Shield Extender II
2*Shield Recharge I
1*10mw AB I
Low-
3*Shield Power Relay I
1*Power Diagnostic Iö
Nice setup but whatÆs the PDU for? Did you try swapping the PDU for another Shield relay?
As for the mid slots what about taking out 1 shield recharger for a EM or another passive hardener? Or instead of a hardener use a 3rd T2 large shield extender. If you do need the PDU for power I guess you can always swap it for a PDU T2.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:56:00 -
[84]
öFerox setup as follows:
Hi-
5*Heavy missile Launcher
2*Heavy Electron Blaster
Mid-
2*Large Shield Extender II
2*Shield Recharge I
1*10mw AB I
Low-
3*Shield Power Relay I
1*Power Diagnostic Iö
Nice setup but whatÆs the PDU for? Did you try swapping the PDU for another Shield relay?
As for the mid slots what about taking out 1 shield recharger for a EM or another passive hardener? Or instead of a hardener use a 3rd T2 large shield extender. If you do need the PDU for power I guess you can always swap it for a PDU T2.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:58:00 -
[85]
ôI'm interested to see how a passive setup fairs while sentry tanking I don't quite think it will cut it tbh.. but will be fun finding out ô
How much damage do sentry guns do per second? If its one damage type perhaps you could use 3 hardeners. I might try this on the test server if people want me to.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:58:00 -
[86]
ôI'm interested to see how a passive setup fairs while sentry tanking I don't quite think it will cut it tbh.. but will be fun finding out ô
How much damage do sentry guns do per second? If its one damage type perhaps you could use 3 hardeners. I might try this on the test server if people want me to.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Cal Drago
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 06:08:00 -
[87]
First of all, thank you Pottsey for being so inventive and then telling us about this on the forums.
Now then, here's my Ferox setup:
5 Heavy Launchers
2 Dual 150 Railguns
2 Large Shield extender 2's
1 M51 Itinerative Shield Generator
1 Passive Hardener
1 Active Hardener
4 Shield Power Relays
With this setup, I get 51 shield/second (at peak). That's 152/3 seconds (or more than double a tech 2 medium shield booster) and 204/4 seconds (nearly as good as a tech 2 Large shield booster). Needless to say, it tanks good. Yeah, the dual 150s aren't the greatest, but they work. I'm currently training Engineering V, so I may be able to fit blasters (electron) after that. Also worth mentioning, my Shields are at 6095 with this setup.
The only issue with a passive shield tank is cap. With 5 heavy launchers for weapons and no need for a shield booster, that's really not a problem. My recharge rate can support the two railguns and one active hardener nearly indefinitely.
I'm running Lvl 3 Agent missions with this thing and it's absolutely unstoppable. I don't even bother to stay out of range of the Drones or move to use Tranversal to reduce hits. I just sit there and spam until everything is dead and I have yet to drop below 70% shields.
Again, thanks Pottsey. I never even considered using Shield rechargers or relays until I read this thread. It definitely works. It's really nice to fight and not worry about cap for defense (or anything for that matter). Just imagine running your large shield booster nonstop while unloading with all of your weapons and never even worrying about your cap. That's where my Ferox is.
|
Cal Drago
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 06:08:00 -
[88]
First of all, thank you Pottsey for being so inventive and then telling us about this on the forums.
Now then, here's my Ferox setup:
5 Heavy Launchers
2 Dual 150 Railguns
2 Large Shield extender 2's
1 M51 Itinerative Shield Generator
1 Passive Hardener
1 Active Hardener
4 Shield Power Relays
With this setup, I get 51 shield/second (at peak). That's 152/3 seconds (or more than double a tech 2 medium shield booster) and 204/4 seconds (nearly as good as a tech 2 Large shield booster). Needless to say, it tanks good. Yeah, the dual 150s aren't the greatest, but they work. I'm currently training Engineering V, so I may be able to fit blasters (electron) after that. Also worth mentioning, my Shields are at 6095 with this setup.
The only issue with a passive shield tank is cap. With 5 heavy launchers for weapons and no need for a shield booster, that's really not a problem. My recharge rate can support the two railguns and one active hardener nearly indefinitely.
I'm running Lvl 3 Agent missions with this thing and it's absolutely unstoppable. I don't even bother to stay out of range of the Drones or move to use Tranversal to reduce hits. I just sit there and spam until everything is dead and I have yet to drop below 70% shields.
Again, thanks Pottsey. I never even considered using Shield rechargers or relays until I read this thread. It definitely works. It's really nice to fight and not worry about cap for defense (or anything for that matter). Just imagine running your large shield booster nonstop while unloading with all of your weapons and never even worrying about your cap. That's where my Ferox is.
|
Narcissa
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 08:48:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Narcissa on 21/12/2004 08:50:43
Edited by: Narcissa on 21/12/2004 08:50:05
Edited by: Narcissa on 21/12/2004 08:49:13
Originally by: Pottsey
Nice setup but whatÆs the PDU for? Did you try swapping the PDU for another Shield relay?
As for the mid slots what about taking out 1 shield recharger for a EM or another passive hardener? Or instead of a hardener use a 3rd T2 large shield extender. If you do need the PDU for power I guess you can always swap it for a PDU T2.
The grid for this setup is right on the power limit, so a Power Diag gives just enough to fit it all. However I did look to see where I could lower the grid enough to get a fourth relay on. I don't think it is possible with skills that affect grid (I have Engineering 5 and Shield Upgrades 4).
I could either remove the AB (As the poster abve has) or downgrade blasters to Dual 150s to reduce the grid load. I prefer the extra speed for collecting loot cans so I opted for the duals.
Another Option might be Tech II Shield Relays which look like they give 10% powergrid bonus. However I have yet to find one for sale so I haven't tried it.
On the mid slots, in comparison of shield rechargers and passive hardners, the hardener is a better choice if the enemy is doing that damage type.
As most NPC pirates do thermal damage plus either Kinetic or EM, I'll go with EM and TH hardeners as those are the ones that shields are most vulnerable. So here goes:
Passive Tanking Ferox (Revised)
Hi-
5*Heavy Missile Launcher
2*Dual 150mm Rails
Medium-
2*Large Shield Extender II
1*Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
1*Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
1*10mn Afterburner
Low-
4*Shield Power Relay I
Shield regen tops out at 43.7, a bit slower that before, but it has all shield resists at 50%+ so it can warp in at 15km and lay waste to 2*100k cruisers with a deadspace sentry in support and not break a sweat.
As something of a weekend warrior (my main focus being industry) having a ship that can do L3 missions with no cap worries and an always-on built-in shield booster is really fun.
For me this is one is a keeper.
|
Narcissa
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 08:48:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Narcissa on 21/12/2004 08:50:43
Edited by: Narcissa on 21/12/2004 08:50:05
Edited by: Narcissa on 21/12/2004 08:49:13
Originally by: Pottsey
Nice setup but whatÆs the PDU for? Did you try swapping the PDU for another Shield relay?
As for the mid slots what about taking out 1 shield recharger for a EM or another passive hardener? Or instead of a hardener use a 3rd T2 large shield extender. If you do need the PDU for power I guess you can always swap it for a PDU T2.
The grid for this setup is right on the power limit, so a Power Diag gives just enough to fit it all. However I did look to see where I could lower the grid enough to get a fourth relay on. I don't think it is possible with skills that affect grid (I have Engineering 5 and Shield Upgrades 4).
I could either remove the AB (As the poster abve has) or downgrade blasters to Dual 150s to reduce the grid load. I prefer the extra speed for collecting loot cans so I opted for the duals.
Another Option might be Tech II Shield Relays which look like they give 10% powergrid bonus. However I have yet to find one for sale so I haven't tried it.
On the mid slots, in comparison of shield rechargers and passive hardners, the hardener is a better choice if the enemy is doing that damage type.
As most NPC pirates do thermal damage plus either Kinetic or EM, I'll go with EM and TH hardeners as those are the ones that shields are most vulnerable. So here goes:
Passive Tanking Ferox (Revised)
Hi-
5*Heavy Missile Launcher
2*Dual 150mm Rails
Medium-
2*Large Shield Extender II
1*Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
1*Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
1*10mn Afterburner
Low-
4*Shield Power Relay I
Shield regen tops out at 43.7, a bit slower that before, but it has all shield resists at 50%+ so it can warp in at 15km and lay waste to 2*100k cruisers with a deadspace sentry in support and not break a sweat.
As something of a weekend warrior (my main focus being industry) having a ship that can do L3 missions with no cap worries and an always-on built-in shield booster is really fun.
For me this is one is a keeper.
|
|
|
Cal Drago
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 17:31:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Narcissa
Edited by: Narcissa on 21/12/2004 08:50:43
Edited by: Narcissa on 21/12/2004 08:50:05
Edited by: Narcissa on 21/12/2004 08:49:13
Originally by: Pottsey
Nice setup but whatÆs the PDU for? Did you try swapping the PDU for another Shield relay?
As for the mid slots what about taking out 1 shield recharger for a EM or another passive hardener? Or instead of a hardener use a 3rd T2 large shield extender. If you do need the PDU for power I guess you can always swap it for a PDU T2.
The grid for this setup is right on the power limit, so a Power Diag gives just enough to fit it all. However I did look to see where I could lower the grid enough to get a fourth relay on. I don't think it is possible with skills that affect grid (I have Engineering 5 and Shield Upgrades 4).
I could either remove the AB (As the poster abve has) or downgrade blasters to Dual 150s to reduce the grid load. I prefer the extra speed for collecting loot cans so I opted for the duals.
Another Option might be Tech II Shield Relays which look like they give 10% powergrid bonus. However I have yet to find one for sale so I haven't tried it.
On the mid slots, in comparison of shield rechargers and passive hardners, the hardener is a better choice if the enemy is doing that damage type.
As most NPC pirates do thermal damage plus either Kinetic or EM, I'll go with EM and TH hardeners as those are the ones that shields are most vulnerable. So here goes:
Passive Tanking Ferox (Revised)
Hi-
5*Heavy Missile Launcher
2*Dual 150mm Rails
Medium-
2*Large Shield Extender II
1*Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
1*Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
1*10mn Afterburner
Low-
4*Shield Power Relay I
Shield regen tops out at 43.7, a bit slower that before, but it has all shield resists at 50%+ so it can warp in at 15km and lay waste to 2*100k cruisers with a deadspace sentry in support and not break a sweat.
As something of a weekend warrior (my main focus being industry) having a ship that can do L3 missions with no cap worries and an always-on built-in shield booster is really fun.
For me this is one is a keeper.
Narcissa,
I highly recommend you give up the dream that is the AB, girl. It's not a good idea with the cap recharge rate on this setup. You'll find that you run completely out of cap and then have to sit for ages just to charge up enough to warp back to the station!
Yeah, she's a slow ponderous beast without it, but I usually keep mine in reserve for the more brutal missions anyway and I really don't move much in those missions.
|
Cal Drago
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 17:31:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Narcissa
Edited by: Narcissa on 21/12/2004 08:50:43
Edited by: Narcissa on 21/12/2004 08:50:05
Edited by: Narcissa on 21/12/2004 08:49:13
Originally by: Pottsey
Nice setup but whatÆs the PDU for? Did you try swapping the PDU for another Shield relay?
As for the mid slots what about taking out 1 shield recharger for a EM or another passive hardener? Or instead of a hardener use a 3rd T2 large shield extender. If you do need the PDU for power I guess you can always swap it for a PDU T2.
The grid for this setup is right on the power limit, so a Power Diag gives just enough to fit it all. However I did look to see where I could lower the grid enough to get a fourth relay on. I don't think it is possible with skills that affect grid (I have Engineering 5 and Shield Upgrades 4).
I could either remove the AB (As the poster abve has) or downgrade blasters to Dual 150s to reduce the grid load. I prefer the extra speed for collecting loot cans so I opted for the duals.
Another Option might be Tech II Shield Relays which look like they give 10% powergrid bonus. However I have yet to find one for sale so I haven't tried it.
On the mid slots, in comparison of shield rechargers and passive hardners, the hardener is a better choice if the enemy is doing that damage type.
As most NPC pirates do thermal damage plus either Kinetic or EM, I'll go with EM and TH hardeners as those are the ones that shields are most vulnerable. So here goes:
Passive Tanking Ferox (Revised)
Hi-
5*Heavy Missile Launcher
2*Dual 150mm Rails
Medium-
2*Large Shield Extender II
1*Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
1*Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
1*10mn Afterburner
Low-
4*Shield Power Relay I
Shield regen tops out at 43.7, a bit slower that before, but it has all shield resists at 50%+ so it can warp in at 15km and lay waste to 2*100k cruisers with a deadspace sentry in support and not break a sweat.
As something of a weekend warrior (my main focus being industry) having a ship that can do L3 missions with no cap worries and an always-on built-in shield booster is really fun.
For me this is one is a keeper.
Narcissa,
I highly recommend you give up the dream that is the AB, girl. It's not a good idea with the cap recharge rate on this setup. You'll find that you run completely out of cap and then have to sit for ages just to charge up enough to warp back to the station!
Yeah, she's a slow ponderous beast without it, but I usually keep mine in reserve for the more brutal missions anyway and I really don't move much in those missions.
|
corporal hicks
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 21:54:00 -
[93]
I tried a ferox setup in pvp test using this yesterday.
Highs
5 arbalest heavy launchers
2 med nos
meds
large shield extender
4 shield rechargers
lows
4 shield power relays.
Ok speed was a problem and not having access to better mods due to been in 0.0 when testing but it had no probs forceing a enyo and a cyclone to warp out from combat with it at same time.
The enyo and the cyclone never got it below 40% shields.
Will get some better modules in next week and retest, but looks intresting.
" Stay Frosty "
|
corporal hicks
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 21:54:00 -
[94]
I tried a ferox setup in pvp test using this yesterday.
Highs
5 arbalest heavy launchers
2 med nos
meds
large shield extender
4 shield rechargers
lows
4 shield power relays.
Ok speed was a problem and not having access to better mods due to been in 0.0 when testing but it had no probs forceing a enyo and a cyclone to warp out from combat with it at same time.
The enyo and the cyclone never got it below 40% shields.
Will get some better modules in next week and retest, but looks intresting.
" Stay Frosty "
|
Cal Drago
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 00:15:00 -
[95]
Originally by: corporal hicks
I tried a ferox setup in pvp test using this yesterday.
Highs
5 arbalest heavy launchers
2 med nos
meds
large shield extender
4 shield rechargers
lows
4 shield power relays.
Ok speed was a problem and not having access to better mods due to been in 0.0 when testing but it had no probs forceing a enyo and a cyclone to warp out from combat with it at same time.
The enyo and the cyclone never got it below 40% shields.
Will get some better modules in next week and retest, but looks intresting.
Nice! I've actually been curious about its viability in PvP. I may have to take the old girl out to 0.0...of course, then I'll probably meet up with a 5 BS gank squad, knowing my luck.
|
Cal Drago
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 00:15:00 -
[96]
Originally by: corporal hicks
I tried a ferox setup in pvp test using this yesterday.
Highs
5 arbalest heavy launchers
2 med nos
meds
large shield extender
4 shield rechargers
lows
4 shield power relays.
Ok speed was a problem and not having access to better mods due to been in 0.0 when testing but it had no probs forceing a enyo and a cyclone to warp out from combat with it at same time.
The enyo and the cyclone never got it below 40% shields.
Will get some better modules in next week and retest, but looks intresting.
Nice! I've actually been curious about its viability in PvP. I may have to take the old girl out to 0.0...of course, then I'll probably meet up with a 5 BS gank squad, knowing my luck.
|
Kretta Daisul
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 00:24:00 -
[97]
Originally by: corporal hicks
I tried a ferox setup in pvp test using this yesterday.
Highs
5 arbalest heavy launchers
2 med nos
meds
large shield extender
4 shield rechargers
lows
4 shield power relays.
Ok speed was a problem and not having access to better mods due to been in 0.0 when testing but it had no probs forceing a enyo and a cyclone to warp out from combat with it at same time.
The enyo and the cyclone never got it below 40% shields.
Will get some better modules in next week and retest, but looks intresting.
Hicks? You're nuts! *LOL!* And a braver pilot than I am! Don't think I could be patient without any speed mods, but I guess you have to ditch it to get the shield recharge up.
Gods, going to have to prod Mrissa to get the BPO's and to stop recycling these modules apparently.
"An Eye for an Eye ... is necessary when dealing with cybernetics, unless you want to look like a borged out freak." - Kretta Daisul |
Kretta Daisul
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 00:24:00 -
[98]
Originally by: corporal hicks
I tried a ferox setup in pvp test using this yesterday.
Highs
5 arbalest heavy launchers
2 med nos
meds
large shield extender
4 shield rechargers
lows
4 shield power relays.
Ok speed was a problem and not having access to better mods due to been in 0.0 when testing but it had no probs forceing a enyo and a cyclone to warp out from combat with it at same time.
The enyo and the cyclone never got it below 40% shields.
Will get some better modules in next week and retest, but looks intresting.
Hicks? You're nuts! *LOL!* And a braver pilot than I am! Don't think I could be patient without any speed mods, but I guess you have to ditch it to get the shield recharge up.
Gods, going to have to prod Mrissa to get the BPO's and to stop recycling these modules apparently.
"An Eye for an Eye ... is necessary when dealing with cybernetics, unless you want to look like a borged out freak." - Kretta Daisul |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 01:08:00 -
[99]
"I've actually been curious about its viability in PvP."
I'd guess it's pretty limited in the long run... not even the actual combat, but the very low cap recharge means after warping across few systems (each warp in those larger systems can take 1/3rd to half of your cap, sometimes more) you're left at mercy of whatever force happens to roll your way... simply because if you don't manage to put your nosferatu on anything, you're left stranded for long time without cap to warp. ^^;;
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 01:08:00 -
[100]
"I've actually been curious about its viability in PvP."
I'd guess it's pretty limited in the long run... not even the actual combat, but the very low cap recharge means after warping across few systems (each warp in those larger systems can take 1/3rd to half of your cap, sometimes more) you're left at mercy of whatever force happens to roll your way... simply because if you don't manage to put your nosferatu on anything, you're left stranded for long time without cap to warp. ^^;;
|
|
|
Cal Drago
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 03:13:00 -
[101]
Originally by: j0sephine
"I've actually been curious about its viability in PvP."
I'd guess it's pretty limited in the long run... not even the actual combat, but the very low cap recharge means after warping across few systems (each warp in those larger systems can take 1/3rd to half of your cap, sometimes more) you're left at mercy of whatever force happens to roll your way... simply because if you don't manage to put your nosferatu on anything, you're left stranded for long time without cap to warp. ^^;;
Great point, j0sephine. I guess maybe either fitting a NOS or maybe just gate camping scenerios then. As long as you don't have to warp around, though, you should be fine.
|
Cal Drago
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 03:13:00 -
[102]
Originally by: j0sephine
"I've actually been curious about its viability in PvP."
I'd guess it's pretty limited in the long run... not even the actual combat, but the very low cap recharge means after warping across few systems (each warp in those larger systems can take 1/3rd to half of your cap, sometimes more) you're left at mercy of whatever force happens to roll your way... simply because if you don't manage to put your nosferatu on anything, you're left stranded for long time without cap to warp. ^^;;
Great point, j0sephine. I guess maybe either fitting a NOS or maybe just gate camping scenerios then. As long as you don't have to warp around, though, you should be fine.
|
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 08:16:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Pottsey on 22/12/2004 08:26:28
ôI'd guess it's pretty limited in the long run... not even the actual combat, but the very low cap recharge means after warping across few systems (each warp in those larger systems can take 1/3rd to half of your cap, sometimes more) you're left at mercy of whatever force happens to roll your way... simply because if you don't manage to put your nosferatu on anything, you're left stranded for long time without cap to warp. ^^;;ö
True you do need the level 5 skill that gives -50% to warp cap used. If I have to make a long trip I disable two modules or jump 3 or 5 jumps dock and undock and warp again. Only the Domi with 7 relays should have that problem the other ships with less relays should have enough cap charge with -50% warp cap drain to warp as long as they want. ItÆs certainly not a good setup to chase people down across sectors due to the lack of top speed and shorter warp rangeÆs. Its more of a support ship someone goes in with warp scrabbles while you warp in after them to shoot or tank.
Has anyone got it working in PvP? I dont really do much PvP and its always in the same system I as am in.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 08:16:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Pottsey on 22/12/2004 08:26:28
ôI'd guess it's pretty limited in the long run... not even the actual combat, but the very low cap recharge means after warping across few systems (each warp in those larger systems can take 1/3rd to half of your cap, sometimes more) you're left at mercy of whatever force happens to roll your way... simply because if you don't manage to put your nosferatu on anything, you're left stranded for long time without cap to warp. ^^;;ö
True you do need the level 5 skill that gives -50% to warp cap used. If I have to make a long trip I disable two modules or jump 3 or 5 jumps dock and undock and warp again. Only the Domi with 7 relays should have that problem the other ships with less relays should have enough cap charge with -50% warp cap drain to warp as long as they want. ItÆs certainly not a good setup to chase people down across sectors due to the lack of top speed and shorter warp rangeÆs. Its more of a support ship someone goes in with warp scrabbles while you warp in after them to shoot or tank.
Has anyone got it working in PvP? I dont really do much PvP and its always in the same system I as am in.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Crimson Djinn
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 10:04:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 04/12/2004 23:48:05
Due to the amount of Eve mails I get asking how to passive tank I decided to post it here again. I donÆt want to this it turn into another is passive tanking worth or is it a waste of time argument read the numbers and methods and make your own mind up. This is purely to explain how to passive tank to cut down on the mail I get. I donÆt have a problem with people mailing me if you do get stuck. For those wondering the idea behind passive setups is if you run out of cap or someone useÆs Nos on you, your defence stays on max instead of turning off.
To work out your passive shield recharge rate you need to know you shield cap and shield recharge rate. So you do shield cap / shield recharge rate = xxx. The catch is shields are none linier so the lower the shields get the faster they charge up. At the fastest point around 30% shields are 2.4 ish times faster (if any devs are reading this please confirm if 2.4 is correct). So you do shield cap / shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy. Do not worry if the first 30 or even 50% of your shields go down fast its from 30 to 50% when your shields are strongest. Once the shields get lower then 20% ish (not sure on correct number) its time to warp out as you hit the point of no return. At this point shields recharge slows down so you getting less per second.
For example if my ship has a 9000 shield cap and a 500 second shield recharge rate my shield points per second would be 9000/500 * 2.4 = 43.2 points per second when less then 20% the 43.2 number drops the more I get below 20% the more the number drops. 90% also worse then 43.2 at 90% I get less then 20 points per second. 43.2 might not seem much but thatÆs per second. A large shield booster is 160 points over 4 seconds. So to compare you take yyyy in my case 43.2 and * by 4 = 172.8. Extra large shield boosters are over 5 seconds so to compare to that you would do yyy my case 43.2 b 5 = 215.
Please note the above shield cap and shield recharge rates are made up numbers to make the maths easier. My real numbers are higher.
The next question I get asked is whatÆs better shield extenders or shield recharges. The correct answer is a mix depending on ship. Fit all your mid slots with shield recharges now do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy
Now take off 1 mid shield cap / shield recharge rate =xxx and fit in a shield extender. Do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy if you get a higher number this time then your better off with a shield extender.
Next repeat the above step but take off a 2nd shield recharges and fit a 2nd shield extender. Do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy.
Keep doing the above at some point you will find taking off shield recharges and fitting in shield extender lowers the yyyy number. My ship turned out best with 3 shield extenders and 2 shield recharges.
Best module mid slots are shield extenders and shield recharges. In the low slots shield relays. Do not use shield flux. The flux module lowers your shield cap meaning you get less shield points per second.
If you use max shield relays your reactor will charge up very slow meaning this setup is not practical for some people. It works well on agent missions and for people who forgot to turn on boosters or are just too lazy to turn them on. If you need to PvP and use warp scrabbles and lots of cap draining modules passive setups should not work for you.
For those wonder lots of people have done level 3 agent missions with a passive setup. Some people like to lose a bit of passive setup and fit 1 to 4 hardeners.
If anyone has questions ask away. But please donÆt tell me boosters or amour tanking is better or worse. This is just another way to equip your ship. It has a different set of advantages and disadvantages. You might like it you might not.
EDIT: One thing a lot of people forget to take into account about passive setups is you donÆt need much cap recharge. Lots look at the recharge rate and go 2000, 3000 or even 6000 seconds reactor cap recharge rate that unusable. But they forget to take into account you donÆt have boosters draining the cap fast. A standard scorp battleship can run weapons and 3 active hardeners with missiles for 11 minuets without cap problems. That can easily be extended by training up reactor skills or using 1 nos. That 11 mins also does not take into account the cap you recarge back over 11 mins.
ThatÆs not always the case a full layout of target lock jamers, warp scramblers e,c,t is not a suitable setup for a passive tank.
TOOO LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG
the modules would have been fine...
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Crimson Djinn
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Posted - 2004.12.22 10:04:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 04/12/2004 23:48:05
Due to the amount of Eve mails I get asking how to passive tank I decided to post it here again. I donÆt want to this it turn into another is passive tanking worth or is it a waste of time argument read the numbers and methods and make your own mind up. This is purely to explain how to passive tank to cut down on the mail I get. I donÆt have a problem with people mailing me if you do get stuck. For those wondering the idea behind passive setups is if you run out of cap or someone useÆs Nos on you, your defence stays on max instead of turning off.
To work out your passive shield recharge rate you need to know you shield cap and shield recharge rate. So you do shield cap / shield recharge rate = xxx. The catch is shields are none linier so the lower the shields get the faster they charge up. At the fastest point around 30% shields are 2.4 ish times faster (if any devs are reading this please confirm if 2.4 is correct). So you do shield cap / shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy. Do not worry if the first 30 or even 50% of your shields go down fast its from 30 to 50% when your shields are strongest. Once the shields get lower then 20% ish (not sure on correct number) its time to warp out as you hit the point of no return. At this point shields recharge slows down so you getting less per second.
For example if my ship has a 9000 shield cap and a 500 second shield recharge rate my shield points per second would be 9000/500 * 2.4 = 43.2 points per second when less then 20% the 43.2 number drops the more I get below 20% the more the number drops. 90% also worse then 43.2 at 90% I get less then 20 points per second. 43.2 might not seem much but thatÆs per second. A large shield booster is 160 points over 4 seconds. So to compare you take yyyy in my case 43.2 and * by 4 = 172.8. Extra large shield boosters are over 5 seconds so to compare to that you would do yyy my case 43.2 b 5 = 215.
Please note the above shield cap and shield recharge rates are made up numbers to make the maths easier. My real numbers are higher.
The next question I get asked is whatÆs better shield extenders or shield recharges. The correct answer is a mix depending on ship. Fit all your mid slots with shield recharges now do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy
Now take off 1 mid shield cap / shield recharge rate =xxx and fit in a shield extender. Do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy if you get a higher number this time then your better off with a shield extender.
Next repeat the above step but take off a 2nd shield recharges and fit a 2nd shield extender. Do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy.
Keep doing the above at some point you will find taking off shield recharges and fitting in shield extender lowers the yyyy number. My ship turned out best with 3 shield extenders and 2 shield recharges.
Best module mid slots are shield extenders and shield recharges. In the low slots shield relays. Do not use shield flux. The flux module lowers your shield cap meaning you get less shield points per second.
If you use max shield relays your reactor will charge up very slow meaning this setup is not practical for some people. It works well on agent missions and for people who forgot to turn on boosters or are just too lazy to turn them on. If you need to PvP and use warp scrabbles and lots of cap draining modules passive setups should not work for you.
For those wonder lots of people have done level 3 agent missions with a passive setup. Some people like to lose a bit of passive setup and fit 1 to 4 hardeners.
If anyone has questions ask away. But please donÆt tell me boosters or amour tanking is better or worse. This is just another way to equip your ship. It has a different set of advantages and disadvantages. You might like it you might not.
EDIT: One thing a lot of people forget to take into account about passive setups is you donÆt need much cap recharge. Lots look at the recharge rate and go 2000, 3000 or even 6000 seconds reactor cap recharge rate that unusable. But they forget to take into account you donÆt have boosters draining the cap fast. A standard scorp battleship can run weapons and 3 active hardeners with missiles for 11 minuets without cap problems. That can easily be extended by training up reactor skills or using 1 nos. That 11 mins also does not take into account the cap you recarge back over 11 mins.
ThatÆs not always the case a full layout of target lock jamers, warp scramblers e,c,t is not a suitable setup for a passive tank.
TOOO LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG
the modules would have been fine...
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kebab v2
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Posted - 2004.12.22 10:53:00 -
[107]
Edited by: kebab v2 on 22/12/2004 10:53:49
anyone tested the raven and scorp on sisi with the new sheild hp changes for passive tanking, values for large sheild extenders are also expected to rise.
details in the dev blog Linkage
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kebab v2
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Posted - 2004.12.22 10:53:00 -
[108]
Edited by: kebab v2 on 22/12/2004 10:53:49
anyone tested the raven and scorp on sisi with the new sheild hp changes for passive tanking, values for large sheild extenders are also expected to rise.
details in the dev blog Linkage
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Lagar
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Posted - 2004.12.22 11:34:00 -
[109]
nope but i can tell you that pasive tanking will get some love by that :D
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Lagar
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Posted - 2004.12.22 11:34:00 -
[110]
nope but i can tell you that pasive tanking will get some love by that :D
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.22 16:55:00 -
[111]
There are 4 new implants that help passive tanking and you can use two at once. Implant's Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gnome' KYA1000 2% or KYA2000 5% to shield recharge rate. Slot 9
Zainou 'Gnome' KVA1000 implant- 2% Bonus Shield Capacity there is also a KVA 2000 for 5% boost. Slot 7
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.22 16:55:00 -
[112]
There are 4 new implants that help passive tanking and you can use two at once. Implant's Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gnome' KYA1000 2% or KYA2000 5% to shield recharge rate. Slot 9
Zainou 'Gnome' KVA1000 implant- 2% Bonus Shield Capacity there is also a KVA 2000 for 5% boost. Slot 7
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Cal Drago
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Posted - 2004.12.22 19:10:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Crimson Djinn
TOOO LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG
the modules would have been fine...
Go flame somewhere else, troll. All of that information was useful AND necessary. I have a feeling that if the girl had simply posted the setup, most turds like you would have looked a the shield rechargers and relays and said "meh" and moved on.
If you don't have anything useful to add to the thread, then do the world a favor and go throw yourself into the path of an oncoming Bus.
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Cal Drago
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Posted - 2004.12.22 19:10:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Crimson Djinn
TOOO LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG
the modules would have been fine...
Go flame somewhere else, troll. All of that information was useful AND necessary. I have a feeling that if the girl had simply posted the setup, most turds like you would have looked a the shield rechargers and relays and said "meh" and moved on.
If you don't have anything useful to add to the thread, then do the world a favor and go throw yourself into the path of an oncoming Bus.
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Polaris Lumine
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Posted - 2004.12.22 20:40:00 -
[115]
/me looks again at his Ferox set up.
Nice post Pottsey
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Polaris Lumine
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Polaris Lumine
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Posted - 2004.12.22 20:40:00 -
[116]
/me looks again at his Ferox set up.
Nice post Pottsey
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Polaris Lumine
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2004.12.23 03:34:00 -
[117]
i'm also interested in knowing if this would be good on a tempest. I'm thinking for level 4 missions. If somone can try it out and post some numbers that would be great.
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Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram. |
Necrologic
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Posted - 2004.12.23 03:34:00 -
[118]
i'm also interested in knowing if this would be good on a tempest. I'm thinking for level 4 missions. If somone can try it out and post some numbers that would be great.
_______________________________________________________
Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram. |
Fjellu
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Posted - 2004.12.27 13:55:00 -
[119]
Hmm, very interesting. Read the lot.
Have not tried any of it though, since I'm a Caracal pilot. Will try when I jump into next raven. One question though:
Since the problem is cap and recharge speed, could a large shield booster + a PDU II give you "the best of both worlds" in addition to all passive mods?
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Fjellu
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Posted - 2004.12.27 13:55:00 -
[120]
Hmm, very interesting. Read the lot.
Have not tried any of it though, since I'm a Caracal pilot. Will try when I jump into next raven. One question though:
Since the problem is cap and recharge speed, could a large shield booster + a PDU II give you "the best of both worlds" in addition to all passive mods?
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.27 14:18:00 -
[121]
ôSince the problem is cap and recharge speed, could a large shield booster + a PDU II give you "the best of both worlds" in addition to all passive mods?ö
1 PDU II might work on a scorp due to the extra shield cap as 5% to that large shield is a lot. But on a Domi the PDU 5% hitpoints boost and 8.5% shield recharge gives less hitpoints per second then 1 shield relay at 20%. I used to use 2 PDU just for a decent shield recharge but now I swapped ammo so I donÆt use PDUÆs.
Has anyone with a scorp or Raven tested 1 PDU over 1 shield relay? If its going work its going be on those two ships.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.27 14:18:00 -
[122]
ôSince the problem is cap and recharge speed, could a large shield booster + a PDU II give you "the best of both worlds" in addition to all passive mods?ö
1 PDU II might work on a scorp due to the extra shield cap as 5% to that large shield is a lot. But on a Domi the PDU 5% hitpoints boost and 8.5% shield recharge gives less hitpoints per second then 1 shield relay at 20%. I used to use 2 PDU just for a decent shield recharge but now I swapped ammo so I donÆt use PDUÆs.
Has anyone with a scorp or Raven tested 1 PDU over 1 shield relay? If its going work its going be on those two ships.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2004.12.27 15:42:00 -
[123]
There is an easy way to tell wether or not to use a shield extender or a recharger. Rechargers give 15% rate increase. The rate increase you get from a shield extender is equivalent to its size vs your current shield size. So if your extender is 15% of your current size, then use the extender. I'd say use it down to about 10% as well since its
a. going to give you more shield up front.
b. going to give you a larger sweet spot.
And of course that is why it has more fitting requirements.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2004.12.27 15:42:00 -
[124]
There is an easy way to tell wether or not to use a shield extender or a recharger. Rechargers give 15% rate increase. The rate increase you get from a shield extender is equivalent to its size vs your current shield size. So if your extender is 15% of your current size, then use the extender. I'd say use it down to about 10% as well since its
a. going to give you more shield up front.
b. going to give you a larger sweet spot.
And of course that is why it has more fitting requirements.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2004.12.27 16:10:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 27/12/2004 16:12:47
When you say PDU, I assume you mean PDS.
My logic over when to use shield extenders also applies to the PDS.
The PDS gives you 7.5% recharge rate while the relay gives you 20%, so the recharger is ahead by 12.5%. But the PDS gives you 4% shield hp bonus. That is also a 4% recharge rate bonus (If it were not they would have to reduce the recharge rate to compensate, which they do not, so it is ).
So now the recharger is down to 8.5% more recharge rate. But again, the larger shield size gives you a larger sweet spot, and more shield to start out with.
Its hard to argue with 8.5% but its a valid trade off if you can fit stronger weapons since I believe strong offence beats defence in general.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2004.12.27 16:10:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 27/12/2004 16:12:47
When you say PDU, I assume you mean PDS.
My logic over when to use shield extenders also applies to the PDS.
The PDS gives you 7.5% recharge rate while the relay gives you 20%, so the recharger is ahead by 12.5%. But the PDS gives you 4% shield hp bonus. That is also a 4% recharge rate bonus (If it were not they would have to reduce the recharge rate to compensate, which they do not, so it is ).
So now the recharger is down to 8.5% more recharge rate. But again, the larger shield size gives you a larger sweet spot, and more shield to start out with.
Its hard to argue with 8.5% but its a valid trade off if you can fit stronger weapons since I believe strong offence beats defence in general.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.12.27 17:59:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
There is an easy way to tell wether or not to use a shield extender or a recharger. Rechargers give 15% rate increase. The rate increase you get from a shield extender is equivalent to its size vs your current shield size. So if your extender is 15% of your current size, then use the extender. I'd say use it down to about 10% as well since its
a. going to give you more shield up front.
b. going to give you a larger sweet spot.
And of course that is why it has more fitting requirements.
It's a nice method although you don't use 15%. 15% reduction in time gives you 1/(1-0.15) = 1.176 or 17.6% increase in recharge rate.
__________
Capacitor research |
Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.12.27 17:59:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
There is an easy way to tell wether or not to use a shield extender or a recharger. Rechargers give 15% rate increase. The rate increase you get from a shield extender is equivalent to its size vs your current shield size. So if your extender is 15% of your current size, then use the extender. I'd say use it down to about 10% as well since its
a. going to give you more shield up front.
b. going to give you a larger sweet spot.
And of course that is why it has more fitting requirements.
It's a nice method although you don't use 15%. 15% reduction in time gives you 1/(1-0.15) = 1.176 or 17.6% increase in recharge rate.
__________
Capacitor research |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2004.12.28 04:54:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 28/12/2004 04:55:49
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 28/12/2004 04:54:36
Originally by: Dust Puppy
It's a nice method although you don't use 15%. 15% reduction in time gives you 1/(1-0.15) = 1.176 or 17.6% increase in recharge rate.
Ahh so you've done the math then? Because the module description says 'recharge rate' and rate is units/time. If it had said 'recharge time' then I would use your equation. Is the module mis-described?
p.s. i was wrong, rechargers give 10% rate increase not 15%.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2004.12.28 04:54:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 28/12/2004 04:55:49
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 28/12/2004 04:54:36
Originally by: Dust Puppy
It's a nice method although you don't use 15%. 15% reduction in time gives you 1/(1-0.15) = 1.176 or 17.6% increase in recharge rate.
Ahh so you've done the math then? Because the module description says 'recharge rate' and rate is units/time. If it had said 'recharge time' then I would use your equation. Is the module mis-described?
p.s. i was wrong, rechargers give 10% rate increase not 15%.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.28 10:21:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Pottsey on 28/12/2004 10:22:57
ôMy logic over when to use shield extenders also applies to the PDSà
Its hard to argue with 8.5% but its a valid trade off if you can fit stronger weapons since I believe strong offence beats defence in general.ö
I just did some testing on the Domi and I agree shield extenders are better then shield recharges in the mid slots. But PDS are not better in the low slots.
With shield relays its 11602 shield cap with 262 shield recharge giving 106.2 shield points a second.
With 1 PDS I have 12182 shield cap with 299 shield recharge giving 97.7 shield points.
For every PDS I install over a shield relay the shield points per seconds drops. That was also T2 PDS v T1 Shield Relay. I have been trying to get PDS to work and they are useable just not as good as shield relays. I wonder if with 7 PDS's could you run 1 large shield booster? Or perhaps some active hardners.
ôIts hard to argue with 8.5% but its a valid trade off if you can fit stronger weapons since I believe strong offence beats defence in general.ö
For me it was fewer weapons as the PDS takes up extra CPU while the relays take up no CPU for named items or 1 per normal module meaning I could not fit my normal load out with 1 PDS installed. Also if we ever get shield relay T2 they boost power grid by 10% per module.
ôp.s. i was wrong, rechargers give 10% rate increase not 15%.ö
Are we talking about T1 or T2? Not that it matters as you pointed out before its better to use shield extenders and hardeners in the mid slots over shield recharges.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.28 10:21:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Pottsey on 28/12/2004 10:22:57
ôMy logic over when to use shield extenders also applies to the PDSà
Its hard to argue with 8.5% but its a valid trade off if you can fit stronger weapons since I believe strong offence beats defence in general.ö
I just did some testing on the Domi and I agree shield extenders are better then shield recharges in the mid slots. But PDS are not better in the low slots.
With shield relays its 11602 shield cap with 262 shield recharge giving 106.2 shield points a second.
With 1 PDS I have 12182 shield cap with 299 shield recharge giving 97.7 shield points.
For every PDS I install over a shield relay the shield points per seconds drops. That was also T2 PDS v T1 Shield Relay. I have been trying to get PDS to work and they are useable just not as good as shield relays. I wonder if with 7 PDS's could you run 1 large shield booster? Or perhaps some active hardners.
ôIts hard to argue with 8.5% but its a valid trade off if you can fit stronger weapons since I believe strong offence beats defence in general.ö
For me it was fewer weapons as the PDS takes up extra CPU while the relays take up no CPU for named items or 1 per normal module meaning I could not fit my normal load out with 1 PDS installed. Also if we ever get shield relay T2 they boost power grid by 10% per module.
ôp.s. i was wrong, rechargers give 10% rate increase not 15%.ö
Are we talking about T1 or T2? Not that it matters as you pointed out before its better to use shield extenders and hardeners in the mid slots over shield recharges.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2004.12.28 10:32:00 -
[133]
Hm. I'm going to go and see what I can achieve on my Hawk Assault Ship. I saw a few people asking about Assault Ships (due to high resistances) and it seems like it would work well. I'll post my results when I get them.
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ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2004.12.28 10:32:00 -
[134]
Hm. I'm going to go and see what I can achieve on my Hawk Assault Ship. I saw a few people asking about Assault Ships (due to high resistances) and it seems like it would work well. I'll post my results when I get them.
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Lupex
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Posted - 2004.12.28 11:39:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Lupex on 28/12/2004 12:20:00
I don't see any point in mixing shield relays and PDU's since the cap recharge penalties on the relays will cripple the recharge rate after the first unit.
Unfortunately cap recharge is one of those things you have to live without if you passive tank, but thats the trade off and i'm happy to live with it.
My main problem with passive tanking is having enough cpu and cap recharge to run miner II's and tank, this could be a good argument for the pdu option (thx I didn't even consider it)....in theory the tech 2 modules should allow you to free up a low slot or two, and still maintain a very good tank...good news for snipers, and unlike the endless arguments i hear for armour tanking domi's, there is plenty of grid spare for heavy hitting turrets, and the cap will last long enough to get the job done.
Just to put it all in perspective, with all t2 modules and skills in the right places a domi can tank over 200 hp/sec, hit hard at long range, and decimate ceptors with the 'annoying buzzing things'
Its ugly, but you gotta love it
and yes, like any setup in eve it has its downside and weaknesses, and no doubt a perfect counter setup/tactic. But lets face it, we're all dead when that ceptor jams us and signals the bs gank squad....
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Lupex
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Posted - 2004.12.28 11:39:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Lupex on 28/12/2004 12:20:00
I don't see any point in mixing shield relays and PDU's since the cap recharge penalties on the relays will cripple the recharge rate after the first unit.
Unfortunately cap recharge is one of those things you have to live without if you passive tank, but thats the trade off and i'm happy to live with it.
My main problem with passive tanking is having enough cpu and cap recharge to run miner II's and tank, this could be a good argument for the pdu option (thx I didn't even consider it)....in theory the tech 2 modules should allow you to free up a low slot or two, and still maintain a very good tank...good news for snipers, and unlike the endless arguments i hear for armour tanking domi's, there is plenty of grid spare for heavy hitting turrets, and the cap will last long enough to get the job done.
Just to put it all in perspective, with all t2 modules and skills in the right places a domi can tank over 200 hp/sec, hit hard at long range, and decimate ceptors with the 'annoying buzzing things'
Its ugly, but you gotta love it
and yes, like any setup in eve it has its downside and weaknesses, and no doubt a perfect counter setup/tactic. But lets face it, we're all dead when that ceptor jams us and signals the bs gank squad....
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.12.28 12:41:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
Ahh so you've done the math then? Because the module description says 'recharge rate' and rate is units/time. If it had said 'recharge time' then I would use your equation. Is the module mis-described?
p.s. i was wrong, rechargers give 10% rate increase not 15%.
I checked just in case what the deal is with cap rechargers. On my ferox I have base cap recharge 399 sec recharge time and when I put the t2 cap recharger online ig goes to 399*0.8 = 319 (yeah I now I'm supposed to round it up to 320 but that's how it shows up in EVE). So it is wrong to say that pdu's II boost shield recharge rate by 8.5 it does lower the recharge time by 8.5 which is not the same thing.
The same applies for damage modules which is why many people say that the skill rapid firing gives you the most bang for buck.
__________
Capacitor research |
Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.12.28 12:41:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
Ahh so you've done the math then? Because the module description says 'recharge rate' and rate is units/time. If it had said 'recharge time' then I would use your equation. Is the module mis-described?
p.s. i was wrong, rechargers give 10% rate increase not 15%.
I checked just in case what the deal is with cap rechargers. On my ferox I have base cap recharge 399 sec recharge time and when I put the t2 cap recharger online ig goes to 399*0.8 = 319 (yeah I now I'm supposed to round it up to 320 but that's how it shows up in EVE). So it is wrong to say that pdu's II boost shield recharge rate by 8.5 it does lower the recharge time by 8.5 which is not the same thing.
The same applies for damage modules which is why many people say that the skill rapid firing gives you the most bang for buck.
__________
Capacitor research |
Imhotep Khem
|
Posted - 2004.12.28 14:48:00 -
[139]
To Pottsey:
Yes, it was a given that a PDS is going to give you lower shield pps.
pds gives you more "Power," and if you are able to take advantage, us it, if not go back to relay.
The only reason to talk t2 or named items in a technical discussion of one item vs. another would be to brag...Always I talk T1 standard items.
Sorry for the poor forum format but if I use any brackets in my post the server just hangs...
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Imhotep Khem
|
Posted - 2004.12.28 14:48:00 -
[140]
To Pottsey:
Yes, it was a given that a PDS is going to give you lower shield pps.
pds gives you more "Power," and if you are able to take advantage, us it, if not go back to relay.
The only reason to talk t2 or named items in a technical discussion of one item vs. another would be to brag...Always I talk T1 standard items.
Sorry for the poor forum format but if I use any brackets in my post the server just hangs...
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
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Imhotep Khem
|
Posted - 2004.12.28 14:56:00 -
[141]
To Dustputty:
I worked out the damage mod ROF effects a few days ago and its not the same. The change is on the numerator, not the denominator.
I just checked the cap power relays and they do alter only the time and not the capacity. Its not the first time CCP has had problems with The King's English...
____
If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Imhotep Khem
|
Posted - 2004.12.28 14:56:00 -
[142]
To Dustputty:
I worked out the damage mod ROF effects a few days ago and its not the same. The change is on the numerator, not the denominator.
I just checked the cap power relays and they do alter only the time and not the capacity. Its not the first time CCP has had problems with The King's English...
____
If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Dust Puppy
|
Posted - 2004.12.28 15:15:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Dust Puppy on 28/12/2004 15:16:03
Edited by: Dust Puppy on 28/12/2004 15:15:27
That is because rate of fire on guns is given as the time between shots and not shots per seconds as rate of fire would suggest. Rate of fire on 150mm rails should be 1/4.25 = 0.235 shots per second.
You notice what I was talking about when you calculate damage over time ( damage/(time between shots) ).
So for the 150mm rail you get.
2.75/4.25 = 0.647 dps
5% bonus to "rate of fire" gives you
2.75/(4.25*0.95) = 2.75/4.0375 = 0.681 dps
but a 5% incrase to the dot is only
0.647*1.05 = 0.679 dps
Edit: don't tell the devs though they will nerf it
__________
Capacitor research |
Dust Puppy
|
Posted - 2004.12.28 15:15:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Dust Puppy on 28/12/2004 15:16:03
Edited by: Dust Puppy on 28/12/2004 15:15:27
That is because rate of fire on guns is given as the time between shots and not shots per seconds as rate of fire would suggest. Rate of fire on 150mm rails should be 1/4.25 = 0.235 shots per second.
You notice what I was talking about when you calculate damage over time ( damage/(time between shots) ).
So for the 150mm rail you get.
2.75/4.25 = 0.647 dps
5% bonus to "rate of fire" gives you
2.75/(4.25*0.95) = 2.75/4.0375 = 0.681 dps
but a 5% incrase to the dot is only
0.647*1.05 = 0.679 dps
Edit: don't tell the devs though they will nerf it
__________
Capacitor research |
ELECTR0FREAK
|
Posted - 2004.12.29 00:32:00 -
[145]
Well, I'm currently sitting at a Guristas cruiser spawn, with 5 Terrorists (Ospreys) and 1 Ascriber (Blackbird) firing upon my Passively tanked Hawk Assault Ship. As I write this, I can hear the explosions of Scourges hitting me, but I'm not in the least bit worried. 
I've been sitting here for a good 20 minutes or so, and my shields are holding steady at about 40-50%. Lowest I've ever seen my shields get is 40%. I can recharge my shields at almost 12 units per second maximum. I'm rather surprised at the effectiveness of this setup. The resistances of my ship combined with the passive tanking allow me to take quite a deal of damage without flinching.
Here is my current setup:
2 Arbalest Standard
2 150mm Railguns
1 Small Shield Booster
1 named Shield Recharger (12%)
2 named Small Shield Extenders
2 Shield Power Relays
I fit the Small Shield Booster because I decided that I might as well not let my capacitor go completely to waste, and I wasn't able to fit any more Extenders or Rechargers (with Engie V and Electronics V). If my shields were to ever get low, I can activate my Small Shield Booster and easily regain a good deal of shields before the cap runs out. I could probably replace the booster with a Shield Hardener for even better resistances. I worked out that with just my normal resistances, the Hawk can absorb somewhere in the area of 55 thermal damage per second. (11 shields per second / .2, because only .2 of any thermal damage fired at me actually makes it through)
All in all, I'm very pleased. I wouldn't do this for PVP, but for fighting NPCs, you cant go wrong. Its nice to be able to go AFK at a spawn and come back later to find my Assault Frigate easily tanking a half-dozen cruisers.
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ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2004.12.29 00:32:00 -
[146]
Well, I'm currently sitting at a Guristas cruiser spawn, with 5 Terrorists (Ospreys) and 1 Ascriber (Blackbird) firing upon my Passively tanked Hawk Assault Ship. As I write this, I can hear the explosions of Scourges hitting me, but I'm not in the least bit worried.
I've been sitting here for a good 20 minutes or so, and my shields are holding steady at about 40-50%. Lowest I've ever seen my shields get is 40%. I can recharge my shields at almost 12 units per second maximum. I'm rather surprised at the effectiveness of this setup. The resistances of my ship combined with the passive tanking allow me to take quite a deal of damage without flinching.
Here is my current setup:
2 Arbalest Standard
2 150mm Railguns
1 Small Shield Booster
1 named Shield Recharger (12%)
2 named Small Shield Extenders
2 Shield Power Relays
I fit the Small Shield Booster because I decided that I might as well not let my capacitor go completely to waste, and I wasn't able to fit any more Extenders or Rechargers (with Engie V and Electronics V). If my shields were to ever get low, I can activate my Small Shield Booster and easily regain a good deal of shields before the cap runs out. I could probably replace the booster with a Shield Hardener for even better resistances. I worked out that with just my normal resistances, the Hawk can absorb somewhere in the area of 55 thermal damage per second. (11 shields per second / .2, because only .2 of any thermal damage fired at me actually makes it through)
All in all, I'm very pleased. I wouldn't do this for PVP, but for fighting NPCs, you cant go wrong. Its nice to be able to go AFK at a spawn and come back later to find my Assault Frigate easily tanking a half-dozen cruisers.
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Ilriac LS
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Posted - 2004.12.29 11:10:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Ilriac LS on 29/12/2004 11:12:09
Edited by: Ilriac LS on 29/12/2004 11:11:12
Originally by: Pottsey
...
With 1 PDS I have 12182 shield cap with 299 shield recharge giving 97.7 shield points.
...
I was wondering when i read these number how many 50% hardener you could fit to acheive such number ?
100 hp/s is sweet, but with crappy resist, this is worse than 40 hp/s with 60+ resist to all (more if your opponents use lasers...)
Players often need to use more than 1 hardener for each damage type (TH/EM, TH/KI) to be able to tank dmg, i wonder if a dominix with all PDU in low slot, a large shield booster II, shield amp/shield extender/hard & 3 hardener (2xEM, 1xTH or 1xEM, 1xTH, 1xKI) should be able to tank a lot more dmg longer (a large SB II could be run quite forever with so many PDU). The fact is that this active setup give passive shield regen on top too. (finally give about 60+ hp/s active regen + around 15-20 hp/s passive regen, but with no cap problem, far better resist, & more flexible fitting, like gunboat, greater tanking with xlarge SB, support role with remote repairer etc..). The resist alone should x the regen/s a lot compared with no-resist passive tanking.
Anyone check out both to make sure that passive is that appealing.
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Ilriac LS
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Posted - 2004.12.29 11:10:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Ilriac LS on 29/12/2004 11:12:09
Edited by: Ilriac LS on 29/12/2004 11:11:12
Originally by: Pottsey
...
With 1 PDS I have 12182 shield cap with 299 shield recharge giving 97.7 shield points.
...
I was wondering when i read these number how many 50% hardener you could fit to acheive such number ?
100 hp/s is sweet, but with crappy resist, this is worse than 40 hp/s with 60+ resist to all (more if your opponents use lasers...)
Players often need to use more than 1 hardener for each damage type (TH/EM, TH/KI) to be able to tank dmg, i wonder if a dominix with all PDU in low slot, a large shield booster II, shield amp/shield extender/hard & 3 hardener (2xEM, 1xTH or 1xEM, 1xTH, 1xKI) should be able to tank a lot more dmg longer (a large SB II could be run quite forever with so many PDU). The fact is that this active setup give passive shield regen on top too. (finally give about 60+ hp/s active regen + around 15-20 hp/s passive regen, but with no cap problem, far better resist, & more flexible fitting, like gunboat, greater tanking with xlarge SB, support role with remote repairer etc..). The resist alone should x the regen/s a lot compared with no-resist passive tanking.
Anyone check out both to make sure that passive is that appealing.
|
Pottsey
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Posted - 2004.12.29 11:56:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Pottsey on 29/12/2004 12:06:35
ôI was wondering when i read these number how many 50% hardener you could fit to acheive such number ?
100 hp/s is sweet, but with crappy resist, this is worse than 40 hp/s with 60+ resist to all (more if your opponents use lasers...)ö
That 100+ hp/s was just a test to see if PDS modules are worth using. My combat setup has 2 hardeners and 75 hp/s. I think it was 75 it might be a little higher now I have my new implant with 2% extra cap. It should be possible to hit 80 to 85 hp/s with the best implants.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.29 11:56:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Pottsey on 29/12/2004 12:06:35
ôI was wondering when i read these number how many 50% hardener you could fit to acheive such number ?
100 hp/s is sweet, but with crappy resist, this is worse than 40 hp/s with 60+ resist to all (more if your opponents use lasers...)ö
That 100+ hp/s was just a test to see if PDS modules are worth using. My combat setup has 2 hardeners and 75 hp/s. I think it was 75 it might be a little higher now I have my new implant with 2% extra cap. It should be possible to hit 80 to 85 hp/s with the best implants.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
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Sun Sliver
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Posted - 2005.01.07 06:12:00 -
[151]
I'm sold on passive shield tanking for NPC hunts
Finally gettin around to posting my ship of choice to tank.
Vagabond
HI: 4 425mm ACs, 1 280mm howitzer, 1 rocket launcher (defenders)
MED: 10MN AB, Track Comp, 2 Large Shield Extenders
LO: 1 PDU, 1 RCU, 1 Gyro, 2 Shield Relays
Drone bay loaded with lights to combat elite NPC frigs
Shield cap 5008
Recharge 468 (no implants)
This has been an excellent setup for deadspace missions especially. The fast speed of Vagabond lets me play the minmatar role to a tee. Experienced example:
2 BS, 8-12 Cruisers, 3-4 frigs opposition, all go bye bye.
Like Electrofreak says, the high resistance on elite ships makes tanking much more effective
Cant wait for Shield relay IIs (so i can drop the RCU)
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Muad 'dib
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Posted - 2005.01.07 11:08:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Muad 'dib on 07/01/2005 11:08:17
Been following these passive shield tank threads for a while now, and at first i thought there was little piont, but due to ships like the scorp having good slots and no cap to fire missles it may be viable.
Gunna try this on a scorp soon:
Hi: 4 siege, two med guns
Med: three hardeners, 4x large shield extender II and a shield recharger
Low: PDS II(may drop this and a siege for another relay), 3x shield relays.
Well thats what im gunna aim for, if it fits. But i have a feeling that low slots are going to be more useful for the sheild relays, than mid slots for extenders (plus the scorp bonus to sheild cap)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
/|\.
'/\' The Wild West Made Me Quicker On The DRAW Than You |
Jaynen
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Posted - 2005.01.07 20:59:00 -
[153]
bump and vote for sticky
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.01.07 21:31:00 -
[154]
Has anyone tried passive tanking a Covert Op ship? I did and had loads of fun. Turns out the extra slots and CPU on a Helios work well. I used shield relays in the low slots 2 passive hardeners in the mid slot and the rest small shield extenders T2. DidnÆt have my covert op module on so I used 2, 75mm gatling guns and a 1 Hammerhead drone due to the Thermal damage boost from the ship.
I then soloed the 1/10 Serpentis Drug complex with just over 20 rats in the last section. I thought that was pretty impressive without using boosters and orbiting without afterburners at 5km. WouldnÆt have been possible if I did use the Covert Op module perhaps it would have if I keep at range but 1 weapon wouldnÆt have been enough at close range. Surprisingly reactor cap was not a problem with lead ammo. That was my biggest worry running out of cap in a complex. I bet am Assault ship would do even better just I find Covert op ships more fun to fly.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Imhotep Khem
|
Posted - 2005.01.08 00:40:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 08/01/2005 02:50:11
Yes deserves sticky. I changed my position on passive shielding.
Shield power relays will generate more shields than PDS will generate cap, or any other non-shield nerfing cap generation scheme. So over time the passive shield will be better.
I just hate floating around like I'm dragging an anchor...
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.01.08 23:28:00 -
[156]
I have a Shield Recharge II module for sale the only catch is its in GQ2S-8 system and I cannot move it. I bought it by escrow of a friend and its 126 jumps from my home base. But if anyone is in that are and wants it make me an offer. I know some of you have been looking for these for ages. I only have 1 for sale.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Grey Night
|
Posted - 2005.01.09 15:14:00 -
[157]
Thank you for an AWESOME article. I have begun to apply this and the results are good even with my skills low..
One of our players has a killer Ferox design, it gutted a Raven in about 45 seconds even though it was shield tanked. He took it against my Ferox with passive shielding and I was still going strong about 2 minutes later.
Now I do have a question, what is the lowest number for pasive tanking you would suggest. I am currently getting 13.6 under the formula you posted..
BTW folks the Ferox works REALLY well with this tactic..
============================================
Between the light of day and the black of night, there is the Grey.... |
ZarnieWoop
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Posted - 2005.01.13 12:09:00 -
[158]
Humm any one tryed this on a tempest
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.01.13 17:27:00 -
[159]
ôNow I do have a question, what is the lowest number for pasive tanking you would suggest. I am currently getting 13.6 under the formula you posted..ö
ThatÆs a tricky one I aim for a minimum of 15+ along with +2 hardeners with a cruiser and for a Battleship 70+ with 2 hardeners the more the better.
Without hardeners for a cruiser you want 20+ and 100+ for a Battleship. But I recommended hardeners. With the Ferox built in 5% shield resistanceÆs per level you might be able to get away without hardeners or perhaps 1 em hardener.
13.6 seems a little low to me for a Battlecrusier but as you said your skills are low and my numbers are for level 5 skills.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Moridan
|
Posted - 2005.01.13 19:11:00 -
[160]
How does this work on a typhoon with its 7 lows and decent sheild?
i'm thinking the mix of projectiles and missles will work well with this!
"Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.01.13 20:45:00 -
[161]
ôHow does this work on a typhoon with its 7 lows and decent sheild?ö
It should work ok as the weapons are low cap usage. 2 hardeners and 2 large shield Extenders T2 with a load of shield power relays. I only fly Gallante ships my self so not tested it but the theory says it works.
Give it a go on the test server and report back if it works or not.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Grey Night
|
Posted - 2005.01.14 14:39:00 -
[162]
Wanted to post a quick testimonial. I love this tactic..
Last night I was out alone and we need to do some ore mining for the corp. I stripped my gauss guns and loaded 3 Mining 2 Lasers with 3 large missile launchers. I left my passive shield tanking in place and head for the belt in a 0.3 system.
I had been there a little over an hour then the rats hit, first wave was nothing and I killed them at a good distance with only minor hits. However the second the last rat died a second wave descended. This wave was a 75K rat and 5 15K rats. They spawned within 25 klicks, I about cried..
Immediately I was under fire like crazy. My shields where at 80%+ so I held for a bit to see if I could pull this out. I targetted the biggest rat and started shooting as fast as I could.
As I fired I watched my shield steadily fall. However it was not dropping near as fast as I expected. As I broke the shields of the big rat my shields hit 50%. As his armor started to fail I was down to 40% but then something exciting happened, the shields jumped up for a second..
The next volley took them lower but they then bumped again. The big rat soon died and I was still at 38% on my shields. Plus they where now coming up under the fire of the smaller rats.
The WHOLE time I was doing this I had three Miner 2s running. My CAP was solid and my shields held without any form of active support.
Pottsey, thank you so much for posting this thread, this is without a doubt one of the neatest tactics I have seen yet in the game. While my ship is not invincible, it is a much tougher nut to ***** and I am now more confident of at least standing in the fight for the first part....
============================================
Between the light of day and the black of night, there is the Grey.... |
Germain
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Posted - 2005.01.14 16:52:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Germain on 14/01/2005 16:54:20
WOW. what a post the answer to meny nights of meesing about with med sheild recharges and running out of cap all the time.
well i say WOW, i have not tried it all yet.
i have a rupter and 2.2million SP (not much) 650mm M howies and two heavy launchers and 1 small launcher for defenders.
as there many devoties of passive tanking here has any one got any sugestions as to a possible setup for my ruptur.
i know many will say you need skills. But i want to get rid of the med recharger as it kills my cap, and i would like to put on a web to help the tracking speed of the guns.
electronics lvl 4 eng lvl 4 science lvl 5 some learning lvl 5 gunnery skills lvl 3-4. just to give ppl an idea of where i am at.
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Neroo Tal
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Posted - 2005.01.14 19:28:00 -
[164]
Does anyone know how well this would work on a Rupture? I'd like to be able to tank things like BC's / BS's with it ;) ( BS's are a stretch I know but still ).
-=Freedom over all else, Honour over Freedom
-=The pain of loss cannot compare to the pain of captivity. |
KOTHKortez
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Posted - 2005.01.15 16:56:00 -
[165]
I'd really like to find a way to hunt Angels, in 0.0. in a tempest, using passive shielding. That would be amazing!
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Neroo Tal
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Posted - 2005.01.15 18:59:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Neroo Tal on 15/01/2005 18:59:27
Ok this is what I found concerning a Rupture and passive shield tanking ( someone please correct me if I'm wrong ).
Loadout
Mid
3x med shield extenders ( +480 hp )
Low
4x Shield Power Relays I ( 20% bonus to shield recharge )
Current configuration ( without any of this active )
1,100 shields
900 recharge
4x Shield power Relay I's active
1,100 shields
294 recharge (32.6% reduction not bad )
Using 2.3 as a safety net so you see a smaller number and work off of that, instead of possibly cutting it hair thin close. (2.4 will be in bold to highlight the differences )
Current shield/s = 1,100 / 294 = 3.64 * 2.3 = 8.60 (8.74)
( rounded to the nearest hundreth for ease )
3x med extenders ( +480hp apiece )
2,540 shields
294 recharge.
Current shield/s 2,540 / 294 = 8.64 * 2.3 = 19.87 (20.73)
Does this seem extremely low, or is this about right for a cruiser tanking passive shields ( or is it even possible with a cruiser given the low number? )
-=Freedom over all else, Honour over Freedom
-=The pain of loss cannot compare to the pain of captivity. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.01.15 19:42:00 -
[167]
ôCurrent shield/s 2,540 / 294 = 8.64 * 2.3 = 19.87 (20.73)
Does this seem extremely low, ô
That seems about right to me. I wouldnÆt say its extremely low a T1 mid booster gives 20 per second. So a passive setup of 20.73 is not bad of course the active setup could fit a harder without lowering that 20 per second along with a shield amp. But could the active setup keep that 20 per second boost going for 5+ minuets?
Did you use T2 shield expanders? What about the shield cap boosting implant and shield recharge implant? Or the 3 shield skills that boost shield cap and shield recharge are they on max? You should be able to get a bit better then 20 points per second matching a T1 booster with amp. A lot better once T2 shield relays come out. Personally I would try and fit two passive hardeners to that setup 1 EM and 1 thermal. It might not beat boosters but it should be useable on that ship.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.01.19 03:44:00 -
[168]
I dont think tis is workin for Minmatar too well. I cant get my Rupture into any respectable setup vs. active shields. I also can not get my tempest into any kind of setup.
Perhaps its because I wont fully commit. I did once, and honestly, I just can't sit in the middle of nowhere floating around because I have no AB or cap. Be nice if I could have a cap injector and an AB on there.
It just takes too much passive shielding to equal the active shielding on Tempest and Rupture. 
____
If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Shin Taka
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Posted - 2005.01.22 23:54:00 -
[169]
Cap rechargers got boosted from 10% to 15% for T1s, so with prodding, Devs may do similar for the cap mods, just so passive tanking isn't an all or nothing exercise like it appears to be....
Although, it only seems to take as many slots as decent armour tanking....
Now, if the "Regenerative Nano Membrane" actually made armour regenerate.... :p
-----------
Keeper of the Wombat
2004.09.03 00:42:20notifyTraining of the skill Repair Systems lvl 6 has been completed. |
ElGuapo
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Posted - 2005.01.23 01:36:00 -
[170]
Right now I am using a passively tanked Ferox for lvl3 agent missions and it works great. My peak is about 60shield/sec and I also have an E&M and thermal hardeners. In only 1 case out of many many missions have the rats gotten me below 30% shield. I have 4 hvy missles and 3 med pulse lasers with UV for weaponry.
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Polaris Lumine
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Posted - 2005.01.25 22:43:00 -
[171]
Wow! 60 shield/sec! I am only getting around 41 with my Ferox set up and even that never has any problems coping with level 3 missions (and I always warp in at 15km). My stats are
6360 / 368 x 2.4 = 41.47/sec
Relevent Skills:
Shield Management 4
Shield Operation 4
I'm gonna work this out for a Raven in the next few days. I'll post my findings.
--
Polaris Lumine
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.01.26 08:17:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Pottsey on 26/01/2005 08:25:51
If you have time test in a group with the 3rd shield cap skill the one that only works in groups/gangs and the two shield implants. All 3 give a nice little boost
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.01.26 08:23:00 -
[173]
ôwould love to see a spreadsheet or something where you busted these calculations outö
If enough people send me data I can put in ships into a spreadsheet. Please Eve mail or Email me [email protected] the ship, shield cap, shield recharge, reactor cap, reactor recharge, resistance, amount of active hardeners, amount of Passive hardeners. Free slots.
The above will all be needed. If you have time a few module layout would be helpful but can be skiped.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
NIKNAK
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Posted - 2005.01.26 08:46:00 -
[174]
I am using this Ferox setup atm...
H:
5 Adv Limo's
2 Med Nosf
M:
1 Large Shield Booster II
1 Shield Boost Amp or 1 EM Passive Shield Amp II
1 EM Passive Shield Amp II
1 Kinetic Passive Shield Amp II
1 Thermal Passive Shield Amp II
L:
3 Shield Power Relay 1's
1 Balistic Control
with 1 em, 1 kin, 1 therm amp's i get (EM 50%), (KIN 70%), (EXP 68%), (THERMAL 60%). with a second EM amp I get (EM 61%). I am hoping this will work for lvl 3 mission's....
Shield Cap = 3000 hp
Shield Recharge = 409 sec
Capacitor Cap = 1920
Capacitor Recharge = 1049 sec
Relevent Skills:
Shield Ops 4
Shield Management 4
Shield upgrades 4
Tactical Shield 4
Battle Cruiser 4
Cap recharge is pathetic but I only need it "if" my shield's don't hold which they have so far...
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Lilane
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Posted - 2005.01.26 08:54:00 -
[175]
Edited by: Lilane on 26/01/2005 13:42:17
Edit : said something stupid. sorry 
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Judge Fodder
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Posted - 2005.01.26 13:11:00 -
[176]
Does anyone have any sources for Shield Power Relay II's yet? Are they in game?
By my calculations, a Dominix with 7 of these and 2 Large Extender II's should be able to tank just as well as an Apoc with 2 Large Accommodation repairers!!! (Both setups have 3 hardeners)
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Chucky
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Posted - 2005.01.26 14:32:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Judge Fodder
Does anyone have any sources for Shield Power Relay II's yet? Are they in game?
By my calculations, a Dominix with 7 of these and 2 Large Extender II's should be able to tank just as well as an Apoc with 2 Large Accommodation repairers!!! (Both setups have 3 hardeners)
I've check several regions with no luck, maybe because no one who recieved the offer for this would acept it. Would be sad if thats the case
... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.01.26 18:01:00 -
[178]
http://www.dissonance-corp.com/files/Passive tanking beta 0.2.xls
A very beta file contained data on passive tanked ships. It lists ships and how many hitpoints per second they get. Can people give me feedback on what they want to see before I spend ages on it.
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Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Phi Crysae
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Posted - 2005.01.28 21:15:00 -
[179]
hey there, this is a very interesting post and a nice change from armor tanking. I seem to be having problems trying to do this with my scorp setup atm and can't find a way to make it a viable option. here is my current setup:
HI: 4x Siege launchers, 1x 250mm railgun
MED: 1x Lif Booster, 3x hardeners, 4x shield booster II
LOW: 3x Shield power relay, 1x power diagnostic
CPU 890.7/900 PG 9293/11340
Shield Cap: 12369 Recharge rate: 805 sec
according to the formula I have 38.4 HP/sec recharge which seems a little pathetic to me lol. I would like to keep as many hardeners as possible as I would like to hunt NPC's in 0.0. Any suggestions?
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.01.28 21:45:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Pottsey on 28/01/2005 21:46:34
Can anyone help me work out the passive shield recharge curve? If so please here http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=146168&page=1#9
öHI: 4x Siege launchers, 1x 250mm railgun
MED: 1x Lif Booster, 3x hardeners, 4x shield booster II
LOW: 3x Shield power relay, 1x power diagnostic
CPU 890.7/900 PG 9293/11340
Shield Cap: 12369 Recharge rate: 805 secö
Not to sure what you mean by life booster and you donÆt want to be using shield boosters. Swap out the 4 shield boosters for 4 T2 large shield extenders. Take out the life booster and fit a 5th large T2 shield extenders. Now try and swap that last PDS for a 4th shield relay. Make sure you have the shields skill at high level. I donÆt see a reason to use the PDS. Keep the 3 hardners.
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Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
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Phi Crysae
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Posted - 2005.01.28 23:41:00 -
[181]
I actually meant shield extenders and not shield boosters. Lif fueled booster is a 100mn AB, I guess I don't need it when fighting, Ill just keep it in the cargo for travelling. I guess with the upcoming ship HP changes this type of setup will be alot easier to make lol, thanks for the advice :))
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.01.29 18:15:00 -
[182]
All very intriguing stuff
Just one question - are the figures people are quoting here for recharge the raw shield HP/s? If so, has anyone considered looking at the "equivalent HP/s"? By this I mean the raw recharge modified by your resistances. If you want to hedge your bets (as I usually do) and use your lowest resistance, that's fine. That way we could see how and when it's worth sacrificing a few slots (and a bit of recharge rate) for hardeners, see where the extra resists give you more than a shield recharge module would.
If anyone can beat, or get close to, 221 equivalent-HP per second using their worst resist, I'll be very impressed
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.01.29 18:53:00 -
[183]
öIf anyone can beat, or get close to, 221 equivalent-HP per second using their worst resist, I'll be very impressed ô
I think I am on 140 to 150 now for my worst resistance it all depends on the shield curve. 200 should be easy to break with T2. I also use passive hardeners so I could swap to active hardeners or named passive hardeners for 10 to 20% extra resistance getting me even closer.
Then again the more I look at the shield recharge rate the more I am convinced we have the curve wrong. Does anyone know if the shield recharge counter is in seconds or faster the seconds. I mean when you move the mouse of the shield bars you can see the shield hitpoints ticking up fast. What speed is that?
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Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.01.30 15:05:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Pottsey
Then again the more I look at the shield recharge rate the more I am convinced we have the curve wrong. Does anyone know if the shield recharge counter is in seconds or faster the seconds. I mean when you move the mouse of the shield bars you can see the shield hitpoints ticking up fast. What speed is that?
Well, it seems to be about once a second for me, but I'm not sure it's exact, and individual measurement timings do seem to be able to drift slightly.
One way to be sure would be to use something like fraps to grab a video of the recharge, so it's easier to work with. Of course, to be very accurate, you couldn't trust the video speed, as the capture might get slightly time-skewed. Best way would probably be to capture a video that shows the shield recharge numbers in the client, with a stopwatch program in-frame too, to give each frame an accurate time reference.
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Damocles Ician
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Posted - 2005.02.20 18:57:00 -
[185]
Fascinating thread that needs resurrecting!
Where are people up to on this? I have a friend who's trying to do the same thing in his Scorpion, but could do with summarising all the calculations again. With 4 shield power relays, 3 shield rechargers and 4 large shield extender II's, he's only getting about 23 shield per second. What are we doing wrong?
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Polaris Lumine
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Posted - 2005.02.20 19:37:00 -
[186]
I tried some setups on my Raven but couldn't really get anything good going. I need to revisit and do a bit more testing.
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Polaris Lumine
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.02.20 20:25:00 -
[187]
ôWith 4 shield power relays, 3 shield rechargers and 4 large shield extender II's, he's only getting about 23 shield per second. What are we doing wrong?ö
Perhaps using the wrong formula as that seems very low. WhatÆs the shield cap and shield recharge? A Scorpion should be able to pull off 100 to 130 per second. Is he using T2 shield recharger or T1? If itÆs T1 perhaps scarp then and fit 1 more shield extender and 2 hardeners.
ôWhere are people up to on this?ö
I am pretty much stuck on improvements until someone sells me a shield relay T2 or shield Flux T2. Currently playing around with mixing in 2 PDSÆs now without PDSÆs but 2 Nos.
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Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Damocles Ician
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Posted - 2005.02.20 21:24:00 -
[188]
I've guestimated my friend has shield ops 4, shield management 4, Caldari BS 2 - he's not online at the moment so I can't check numbers.
4 shield power relays, 3 shield recharger I's, 4 large shield extender II's
total shield = 10701
recharge time = 477
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.02.20 21:35:00 -
[189]
Edited by: Pottsey on 20/02/2005 21:38:08
ôtotal shield = 10701
recharge time = 477ö
So its 10701 / 477 = 22.43 * 2.5 = 56 hitpoints per second. Better then you first thought but still on the poor side. Must be those shield rechargeÆs try taking them out and fitting more shield extenders. I donÆt use shield recharge in my mid slots any more I found shield extenders gave me more hitpoints per second. Those two shield implants that cost less then a mill each are worth getting.
The shields get stronger and recharge faster the lower they get. DonÆt worry if the first 50% goes down fast once you get under 50% the shields should almost double to triple in speed.
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Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Gynx
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Posted - 2005.02.20 23:31:00 -
[190]
First off, FANTASTIC thread!! Great work! Im excited to get home and try this out on a 'Phoon. I am wondering how all this will work with a sniper set up, for basic security, and/or gate camping. Anyone had luck with the 'phoon in NPC hunts they want to share using passive?
Gynx
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bUBbLeS
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Posted - 2005.02.22 12:12:00 -
[191]
i can get my vagabond to 49/sec with medioche skills and tech one relays
i NEED tech 2 relays
anyone selling em contact me in game....
Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
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Question2
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Posted - 2005.02.22 15:54:00 -
[192]
Passive shield tanking,like shield tanking,is best for caldari ships.
Minmatar ships are supposed to shield tank too but their shields arent THAT much better than their armor and its a lot easier to armor tank than sheild tank.
Gallente/amaar = armor tank.
You CAN passive tank on non-caldari ships but its a lot harder than a caldari ship,and frankly,armor tanking would be a hella lot more viable.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.02.22 17:15:00 -
[193]
ThatÆs not true Gallente are the best I hold most of the shield recharge records and I only fly Gallente. Due to all the low slots Gallente tend to come out best. You get more befit from shield relays then you do shield extenders or mid slot shield rechargeÆs. Caldari tend to have few lot slots.
I donÆt think any Caldari ship has ever come close to my fastest Gallente shield recharge rate. Caldari are good at passive tanking just not the best.
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Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
bUBbLeS
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Posted - 2005.02.22 20:13:00 -
[194]
yay
got my vagabond to 54 with tech 2 rechargers!
now i REALLY NEED tech 2 sheild relays
plz?
someone?
cAKe
Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
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Justice Bringer
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Posted - 2005.02.28 13:27:00 -
[195]
Guys I've been reading every single post on this topic, and apart from the Ship Setup Stiky, this has got to be the best. Talk about thinking out of the box this is just brilliant. Well done Pottsey for giving this the time it deserves.
Now to my question/s.
Is it possible to use any of these setups on a Gallente Celestis? I had a very bad experience in lvl 3 deadspace and got gang raped by 3 Merc Commanders and several Elite Cruisers.
My fitting at the time was:
Hi - 2 x 250 Carbide, 2 x XR3200 Heavy launchers, + Med Nos
Med - 10MN AB Tech II, Cap Recharger I, Med Shield Booster Tech II
lo - Ballistic Missile Control, Magnetic Field Stabiliser Tech II, 2 x RCU I
8 x med drones (didn't even get to launch
My skills are as follows:
Engineering lvl 4
Shield ops lvl 4
Energy Sys ops lvl 4
Shield Mgmt lvl 3 (currently training to lvl 4)
Shield Upgrades lvl 3
Gallente Cruiser lvl 4
Gunnery lvl 4 (All others in group at lvl 3)
Electronics lvl 4
Sig analysis lvl4 (was 3 at the time)
Drone Interfacing lvl 3
I do have another setup that I've used on lvl 2 missions and some lvl 3 missions (Assault launchers and 3 x 200 rails) but not sure if i can use that on longer missions cos of the short range of the light missiles.
Can anyone give me some useful suggetions please?
Thanks in advance
Justice
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2005.02.28 16:21:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Justice Bringer
Guys I've been reading every single post on this topic, and apart from the Ship Setup Stiky, this has got to be the best. Talk about thinking out of the box this is just brilliant. Well done Pottsey for giving this the time it deserves.
Now to my question/s.
Is it possible to use any of these setups on a Gallente Celestis? I had a very bad experience in lvl 3 deadspace and got gang raped by 3 Merc Commanders and several Elite Cruisers.
My fitting at the time was:
Hi - 2 x 250 Carbide, 2 x XR3200 Heavy launchers, + Med Nos
Med - 10MN AB Tech II, Cap Recharger I, Med Shield Booster Tech II
lo - Ballistic Missile Control, Magnetic Field Stabiliser Tech II, 2 x RCU I
8 x med drones (didn't even get to launch
My skills are as follows:
Engineering lvl 4
Shield ops lvl 4
Energy Sys ops lvl 4
Shield Mgmt lvl 3 (currently training to lvl 4)
Shield Upgrades lvl 3
Gallente Cruiser lvl 4
Gunnery lvl 4 (All others in group at lvl 3)
Electronics lvl 4
Sig analysis lvl4 (was 3 at the time)
Drone Interfacing lvl 3
I do have another setup that I've used on lvl 2 missions and some lvl 3 missions (Assault launchers and 3 x 200 rails) but not sure if i can use that on longer missions cos of the short range of the light missiles.
Can anyone give me some useful suggetions please?
Thanks in advance
Justice
Have you tried running the calculation on a celestis? I've been trying to run the numbers on a caracal, and am starting to reach the conclusion that it's just not feasible.
You're basic recharge rate is
750/1000 * 2.5 = 1.875 shield points per sec.
Even if you fill all your slots with medium shield extenders, and your low slots with 20% relays, this'll turn out at
Med 3 ( 3x400 shield, total of 1950)
Lo 4 20% shield power relays, Recharge time 1000 * .8 * .8 * .8 * .8 = 410s
(please, someone correct me if I have the logic on recharge rate wrong, I'm assuming 20% recharge boost is a .8 multiplier on the recharge time)
You get 1950/410 * 2.5, which is 11 hp/sec.
Just about compares to a small shield booster. (Of course, you skills here also become a factor, so this number is a little on the low side).
That lot add up to 225Mw, and 225cpu (basic).
IMO you'll have a bad time with that on L3 missions, and it's probably worth not passive tanking and using stand-off tactics (this method will, as is mentioned, completely kill your cap, which means a fast disengage with afterburners isn't much of an option)
I'm looking at a similar setup on a caracal, but can't really figure how to accomplish it without sacrificing serious amounts of firepower.
Has anyone tried this type of configuration on a cruiser?
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Jedi Alchemist
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Posted - 2005.02.28 17:23:00 -
[197]
I just did a quick test in my Vexor with the following modules installed:
hi - 4 x 200 Hybrid rail + 1 x E5 Prototype NOS (small)
med - Anointed EM Ward, Supplemental Screen Generator (11% recharge), Medium Subordinate Screen Stabiliser I(440HP)
lo - Magnetic Stabiliser Tech II, 1 x RCU, 2 x Type D Shield Power Relay (20% recharge rate, -35% Cap recharge rate)
My Shield cap/shield recharge is 1368/455 * 2.4 = 7.2
I'm not sure if this is good or not. Can anyone advise if it's even worth doing this in a cruiser cos with the Med shield booster tech II I'll get 90 every 3 seconds so:
7.2 * 3 = 21.6/s
This seems very low to me.
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2005.02.28 18:17:00 -
[198]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Have you tried running the calculation on a celestis? I've been trying to run the numbers on a caracal, and am starting to reach the conclusion that it's just not feasible.
You're basic recharge rate is
750/1000 * 2.5 = 1.875 shield points per sec.
Even if you fill all your slots with medium shield extenders, and your low slots with 20% relays, this'll turn out at
Med 3 ( 3x400 shield, total of 1950)
Lo 4 20% shield power relays, Recharge time 1000 * .8 * .8 * .8 * .8 = 410s
(please, someone correct me if I have the logic on recharge rate wrong, I'm assuming 20% recharge boost is a .8 multiplier on the recharge time)
You get 1950/410 * 2.5, which is 11 hp/sec.
Just about compares to a small shield booster. (Of course, you skills here also become a factor, so this number is a little on the low side).
That lot add up to 225Mw, and 225cpu (basic).
IMO you'll have a bad time with that on L3 missions, and it's probably worth not passive tanking and using stand-off tactics (this method will, as is mentioned, completely kill your cap, which means a fast disengage with afterburners isn't much of an option)
I'm looking at a similar setup on a caracal, but can't really figure how to accomplish it without sacrificing serious amounts of firepower.
Has anyone tried this type of configuration on a cruiser?
Don't think this is feasible on all ships and as shield power relay is the best module to decrease recharge rate then lows are more important than meds. Fitting a relay always gives you 1/.8 = 1.25 or 25% increase in recharge rate but the shield extenders depends on the shield you have. So dumping shield extenders on it only get's you that far.
Also with perfect skills you can increase your shield recharge rate by 1.25/0.75 = 1.6667 or 66.7% which is quite a bit.
Passive shield tanking should also be worse than active tanking as it has the huge advantage of using zero cap. Also you always have full defense on where as in my shield tanking setup I can never run the shield booster all the time freeing up slots to use on other things. Having said that then passive tanking is certainly viable for some situations.
__________
Capacitor research |
Clydar Dramos
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Posted - 2005.03.01 02:45:00 -
[199]
Just did a quick shield tank test in my Ferox today, where a pal in his Caracal let rip 5 x HMLs (EM), 2 x 125mm rails (I think) & 2 drones while I went to use the little boys' room and get a beer. With 4 x relays in lows and 2 x large T2 extenders + 2 x T2 rechargers in mids, he never got the shields below 31%.
Shield cap/recharge: 5830/266sec x 2.4 = 52.60pts/sec max.
This with low skills, as I'm just a poor, little three-week old. Pretty impressive I though (for me that is, probably not for you...)and bodes well for the higher-skilled future.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.03.01 06:50:00 -
[200]
Would it be better to just go all the way with the extenders, or would fitting hardeners be better to tank the best?
I do find that I'd have trouble parting with my webs/warp scramblers and whatnot, if I was going to do this.
Its quite interesting of course, I can think of a few ships I might passive tank. I'm dissapointed that I didnt read this thread earlier.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.03.01 06:59:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Pottsey on 01/03/2005 07:02:36
ôIMO you'll have a bad time with that on L3 missions, and it's probably worth not passive tanking and using stand-off tactics (this method will, as is mentioned, completely kill your cap, which means a fast disengage with afterburners isn't much of an option)ö
ItÆs not that bad, you donÆt have a massive drain from boosters so the little cap recharge you get should be enough for afterburners and weapons. I use 3 to 4 shield relays on my Domi and never run out of cap even with large Neutron blasters and afterburner.
Unless of course you use lasers then it will be a problem. Or if you use 5+ Shield Relays I found that caused problems.
ôcos with the Med shield booster tech II I'll get 90 every 3 seconds so:
7.2 * 3 = 21.6/sö
You are comparing a T1 passive setup against a T2 shield booster. Try swapping in 2 shield extenders T2 and scarp the mid slot shield recharge module or compare to a T1 shield booster. ItÆs not uncommon for Passive setups to get less then active boosters, the catch is passive setups run for ever and you donÆt need to warp out to charge your reactor up. The other bonus is passive setups are on 24/7.
Saying that I do find Cruisers very hard to setup as a passive tank.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.03.01 07:06:00 -
[202]
ôWould it be better to just go all the way with the extenders, or would fitting hardeners be better to tank the best?ö
ThatÆs a hard question to answer it depends on the ship. On my Domi I found 2 hardeners worked best with extenders adding a 3rd hardener lowered the overall damage I could take. I also found that fitting pure shield extenders didnÆt work out best, 1 shield recharge mid slot module with rest shield extenders gave me the most hitpoints. Overall the best was no mid slot shield recharge, 2 hardeners rest shield extenders.
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Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Seraph Demon
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Posted - 2005.03.01 07:10:00 -
[203]
Interestingly, the Vagabond seems to make a good passive tank, with two large extenders and 4 PDU IIs it gets about 5.7K/550s shield recharge, but with one hardener its resistances make that quite a formidable tank (75,60,70,60 ~ EM,EX,KI,TH).
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ALPHA12125
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Posted - 2005.03.02 16:28:00 -
[204]
I am thinking atm about building a capdrain-support megathron for pvp.
which means no weapons just as many nos as possilble
the plan is fly in fast (preferably mwd) stay close to the enemy and suck cap dry while trying to survive :) and after reading this post i am pretty confident that the passive shield would be pretty useful for that task.
Someone tried to shield tank a megathron already ?
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Vee Bot
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Posted - 2005.03.02 16:46:00 -
[205]
Are you mad, with all the cap you'll have, why not just fill the low slots with hardeners and armor repairs, and the mids with MWD and cap rechargers??????
Passive tanking is good, but if your just draining the cap why not put it to use?????
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(_8(|) BEWARE. EBIL HOMER. IF SPOTTED CALL THIS NUMBER 0-800-I-C-HOMER |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.03.02 18:24:00 -
[206]
I have to agree put that cap to use with that many nosÆs why not try running all the mid slots with those 25% to all resistance shield modules and the low slots with cap relays or perhaps PDUÆs so you get a low passive tank with very high resistance.
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Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
ALPHA12125
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Posted - 2005.03.03 13:53:00 -
[207]
ok agreed,
but nevertheless has someone used a megathron setup ? still have some gun setups that need some tweaking :)
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2005.03.03 14:13:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Jedi Alchemist
I just did a quick test in my Vexor with the following modules installed:
hi - 4 x 200 Hybrid rail + 1 x E5 Prototype NOS (small)
med - Anointed EM Ward, Supplemental Screen Generator (11% recharge), Medium Subordinate Screen Stabiliser I(440HP)
lo - Magnetic Stabiliser Tech II, 1 x RCU, 2 x Type D Shield Power Relay (20% recharge rate, -35% Cap recharge rate)
My Shield cap/shield recharge is 1368/455 * 2.4 = 7.2
I'm not sure if this is good or not. Can anyone advise if it's even worth doing this in a cruiser cos with the Med shield booster tech II I'll get 90 every 3 seconds so:
7.2 * 3 = 21.6/s
This seems very low to me.
Fit a large shield extender instead of the EM ward.
Then you will get something like.
2500/455 * 2.4 = 13.18 (or 13.18*3 = 40hp)
After that change the RCU to PDU, and you get another 7.5-10%. That's only a half of medium booster, but with no cap usage.
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Thesiuss
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Posted - 2005.03.03 14:25:00 -
[209]
Anyone tried passive shield tanking a Ishtar?
It seems to me with it's 5/5/5 slotting it'll be perfect.
Noshtar that's passive tanked.........now that's interesting.
Oberon Inc Website--------------Oberon Sales Page
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Ticondrius
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Posted - 2005.04.05 00:21:00 -
[210]
The shield/capacitor recharge rates are a logarithmic function. The curve looks like a bell-curve, and it peaks at 27%. The *magic number* as it were, is the value of e, which is approx 2.71828183. Interestingly enough, a LOT of math in EVE is based around this magic value of e. Falloff I'm finding is built on it, the recharge rates are built on it.
I'm betting at the core of the EVE engine, there's a very NICE trigonometry library. :) Wish I could get my hands on it..heh.
"If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault."
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
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Nekhad Jormuzzar
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Posted - 2005.04.05 02:12:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Thesiuss
Anyone tried passive shield tanking a Ishtar?
It seems to me with it's 5/5/5 slotting it'll be perfect.
Noshtar that's passive tanked.........now that's interesting.
I've run some numbers on the ship and quite frankly, it doesn't make sense to passive tank it. The Ishtar has a poor base shield to shield recharge ratio (1:1) and lacks CPU.
You can achieve good hp/s, but just with 1 EM hardner.
In contrast an active armor tank with 2 reps and 3 hardeners can be sustained with cap rechargers 2 in mid and gives much better performance - over 70 hp/s with outstanding 80, 83, 85, 55 resists.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.04.06 21:57:00 -
[212]
Edited by: Nikolai Nuvolari on 06/04/2005 22:01:50
I didn't have the patience to read all seven pages, so maybe somebody already posted something just like this, but I doubt it so here goes anyway...
I've been using a "super-passive" setup on my Ferox, maybe you can give me some feedback. That is, extenders, rechargers, and amps...
5x 250mm named rails (one comp. coil and four scouts ATM)
2x named heavy launchers (malkuth ATM)
2x named medium shield extenders (forget which ones, sorry)
2x M51 shield rechargers
1x shield amplifier I (thermal ATM)
2x RCU I
1x diagnostic
1x named turret enhancer for hybrids (can't remember what it's called)
As you can see, the only things on the ship that use capacitor are the rails, the launchers, and warping. The thing I really DO need to do is play around with the extender/recharger setup like you talked about to see how I can maximize it, and maybe even play around with adding more amps. My resistances are 20% EM, 50%-60% TH and KI, and about 63% EX. I'm working on improving those with Tactical Shield Manipulation (should have maxed that out long ago) and maybe someday I'll spend the 40 days it'll take me to train Battlecruisers L5.
I don't know, maybe the idea of using amps instead of hardeners is just stupid?
On a slightly less intelligent note, I think somebody should build the ULTIMATE tanking ship (shield or armor, doesn't matter) and name it "Frank the Tank" and then run through systems yelling "WE'RE GOING STREAKING THROUGH THE QUAD" in localchat :P And then somebody needs to yell "You're my boy Blue!!!" This is the point at which the last 3% of my brain cells shut down and I have to stop typing.
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^^^***---All things serve the Beam---***^^^ |
baron corrino
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Posted - 2005.04.11 14:08:00 -
[213]
Pottsey nice thread you have here. `i was wondering since i fly a dominix too, whether you could detail for me a break down of what to fit in order to passive tank. I Get the theory, but the numbers loses me. I have level 4 and upwards on engineering and electronics.
thankyou in advance, you are appreciated.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.04.12 21:15:00 -
[214]
ôPottsey nice thread you have here. `i was wondering since i fly a dominix too, whether you could detail for me a break down of what to fit in order to passive tank.ö
ThatÆs a bit tricky as I keep changing depending on the mission and my mood. In the low slot I used to use 7 shield relays. Recently I swapped in 2 to 3 PDS module which lower my shield regen but gives a lot more cap to play with. 7 relays means after 10 mins of shooting I run out of cap and only have drones left. But if I swap in 2 or 3 PDS modules my cap holds for hours and I can do long jump trips (15+ gates) with an afterburner. Pure relays and afterburners mean dead cap after 5 jumps.
In the high slots I use 1 cloak, 1 auto targeting module and the rest Neutron blasters. With the patch change to Neutron blasters powergrid and with 1 more level to the shield skill that lowers shield extenders powergrid I should hopefully have enough powergrid left for extra Neutron blasters.
In the mid slots fit 1 afterburner, 1 thermal shield passive, 1 EM shield passive hardeners. Rest large T2 shield extenders. If you know what damage the rats do swap the hardeners over to what ever fits bests being lasy I just stick with the above hardners for all missions. If you donÆt care about speed scarping the afterburner for a shield recharge module or another shield extenders should make you tougher but I prefer the speed boost. If you need more powergrid for weapons use more PDS modules but each one you fit lowers you overall regen. Another option would be to scarp large shield extenders and fit extra shield rechargeÆs like the PDS option feeÆs up powergrid but lowers HP regen.
Make sure you get the cheap sub 600k implants. 3% to shield recharge and 3% to hitpoint cap.
The above is my NPC/Agent runner solo setup. I warp in point blank and let the rats hit me. My group setups are very different.
Note: One option that should work but I have not tried is to take pure shield relays and fit in 1 cap booster. It means carrying around cap Charges but without the large drain from active shield boosters the charge from a 1 cap boost should last a while.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Kakita Jalaan
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Posted - 2005.04.13 19:16:00 -
[215]
After reading this thread I also played around with passive tanking. Someone specifically asked about assault cruisers, so here we go with the Cerberus:
Good thing is, you've got plenty of grid and won't need grid intensive modules apart from your weapons (300 grid for heavies, 150 for assaults). You also have eng 5 and weapon upgrades 5 or you wouldn't be flying it. Kinetic missile damage bonus of 25% and RoF bonus kind of make up for lack of damage mods, because all low slots will be used up to make your tank viable.
To cut to the bottom line right away, if shield power relays II are available, you can fit 3 large shield extenders II (with shield ups 5) and have a shield recharge rate that's topping out at about 60-75, with very good resists to start with (except EM, 2 named passive hardeners should just fit and give you ~50% EM resistance). You'll only have assault launchers, but playing tank means you won't deal much damage anyway.
If you go for a mixed passive/active shield tank, you end up with a less extreme setup that tanks slightly less but fits heavy launchers and doesn't have cap issues.
Low slots: 4 PDS I/II
Meds: L Cap Battery I/II, L Shield Ext II, AB II, 1 active hardener, Shield Booster II (size of your choice and fitting left)
HIs: 5 Arba Heavies, 1 empty
Passive recharge rate + 1,5 x cap recharge rate is a bit less than above, but then again you could devote that AB slot to another cap battery with grid/cpu freed by switching heavies for assaults.
I used a very similar (and I think slightly worse) setup to tank lvl 4 deadspace missions with up to 3 BS. I admit I got a heavy energy transfer from an Apoc now and then, but then again it was versus laser spamming Sanshas. If you fly versus Guristas, Serpentis or Mordus, you should be very alright.
Can post exact numbers if requested, gotta run now though.
Kakita
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Soul Wraith13
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Posted - 2005.04.14 01:21:00 -
[216]
holy crap thats alot of math Pottsey.....can you do my homework
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The Shamen
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Posted - 2005.05.04 15:17:00 -
[217]
Great work people. I've been thinking about passive tanking for a while, but didn't think i could get a good setup. Now I'm inspired. I'll post my results.
Omfg.
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.05.04 15:43:00 -
[218]
Passive tanking works very well on a Ferox, we aren't talking to the uber levels that Pottsey can reach, but none-the-less a very close setup.
ex P-TMC
If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
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Namo Iluvatar
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Posted - 2005.05.18 17:40:00 -
[219]
First I would like to commend everyone for an outstanding post. Pottsey, my hat's off to you.
I'm probably going to sound stupid as hell for asking, but as I've only been playing for a week now I'll ask anyway and hope I don't get crapped all over.
I see spectacular potential for passive tanking, but every example I see in the 8 previous pages are done with some spectacularly huge and expensive ships. What about the little guy? At the moment I'm cruzing around in a Gallente Catalyst with aspirations of moving up the proverbial food chain in the not so distant future. So far I'm stuck with taking out targets at range (and trying to maintain them at range) I can pack a serious punch (considering my size) for fire power, but can't seem to take the beating in return.
Is this the destiny of the little guy or is there something I'm missing?
So far I seem to be out of luck when it comes to finding good viable solutions for the little guy.
All skill is in vain when an angel ****es in the flintlock of your musket. |
Sewell
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Posted - 2005.05.18 20:45:00 -
[220]
I made a try to passive tank my tempest, don't really know how Impressed I am.
High: 6x800mm, 2xHeavy Nos
Med: 1x20km scrambler, 4xSheild extender (best named)
Low: 6xShield relay
This gets me 11100 total shield and 27shield recharged/sec (skills at lvl4, no implants) which would mean 27x2.4 = about 65shield/sec total recharge. Not that impressive, but I'm interested to see how this will improve with t2 gear (which I'll be able to use tomorrow).
I'm pretty certian any other close range BS would rip me apart in seconds, but anyway...
The big question is however: are t2 shield relays out yet?
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Peri Stark
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Posted - 2005.05.18 21:12:00 -
[221]
NAMO, The best smaller ship I have found for a passive tank so far is the Moa. I had a lot of fun in it till a pirate decided he needed a megathron to blow it up.
================================================
Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you! |
zoturi
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Posted - 2005.05.25 18:39:00 -
[222]
Hi,
What skills do you think are a must before thinking about Ferox with a passive shield tanking ?
Maybe Electronics for the cpu, do I need a lot of cpu ?
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.05.25 18:52:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Pottsey on 25/05/2005 19:49:03
Shield Upgrades level 5 to reduce the powergrid taken up by Shield extenders,
Shield Management & Shield Operation level 5 to make the shields stronger.
Escort Tactics level 4 or 5 if you work in groups. Solo the skill is not needed. Makes your shields stronger.
Electronics & Engineering for extra CPU and powergrid level 5.
Shield extenders take up a fair amount of powergrid and CPU but if you base you ship around shield recharges you end up weaker but use up less CPU and powergrid.
2 cheap shield implants to boost shield recharge and shield hitpoints about 300k each. If you have the cash get the more expensive versions.
Energy Management, Energy Systems operations, Weapons Upgrades. Its hard to say what level, I had them all at lvl 1 to 3 for ages but if you use shield relays then you might want the energy skills at lvl 5. If CPU is a problem then bump up Weapons upgrades. I guess if the passive tank is based on PDS modules over Shield relays you can skip the energy skills.
EDIT: Has anyone tried the new shield extenders on the test server since they reset the shield recharge skill back to how it used to be.? Passive tanking just got a very nice boost.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Eucarid
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Posted - 2005.05.25 22:07:00 -
[224]
I just found this post. What a marvelous post. This and Dust Puppy's post on cap are my 2 favorite posts so far. 8 pages was a lot, so I might have missed this...
The result you get will vary based on the actual firing rate of your opponent. Imagine for a moment you are getting hit with a gun that does 10 damage every 0.2 seconds (50 dps), and your 2.5x recharge rate is 50 per sec. Your shield would reduce to 30% and pretty much stay there (continue to recharge at 50). Now instead consider a gun that does 200 damage every 4 seconds (again 50 dps). What will happen is that your shield (now down to 30%) will recharge at 50 for a short while, but you will go above 30% shield, so the recharge rate will drop below 50. After 4 seconds your recharge rate has fallen, so you will not have gained the full 200, so the next strike from the gun will put you below 30%, and so on. This might be why you feel your equations don't always work quite right.
So the "burstiness" (new word :) of the gun will alter the effect. Add to that the burstiness of the shield recharge rate, and things get tricky.
Since an active shield recharger is also bursty but its recharge rate is not dependance on your current shield value (or is it), it changes the usefulness to some degree.
Sorry, I'm not being very clear, I'm working long hours and I'm tired... Anyway, it leads me to conclude if you want to break a tank like this, make sure all your guns fire simultaneously to increase the burstiness effect. Of course, this will have a similarly negative effect on your cap.
I love the way all these relatively simple concepts add up to such complex overall behaviour, and that there is no clearly uber way to play eve.
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2005.05.25 23:03:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Eucarid
I just found this post. What a marvelous post. This and Dust Puppy's post on cap are my 2 favorite posts so far. 8 pages was a lot, so I might have missed this...
The result you get will vary based on the actual firing rate of your opponent. Imagine for a moment you are getting hit with a gun that does 10 damage every 0.2 seconds (50 dps), and your 2.5x recharge rate is 50 per sec. Your shield would reduce to 30% and pretty much stay there (continue to recharge at 50). Now instead consider a gun that does 200 damage every 4 seconds (again 50 dps). What will happen is that your shield (now down to 30%) will recharge at 50 for a short while, but you will go above 30% shield, so the recharge rate will drop below 50. After 4 seconds your recharge rate has fallen, so you will not have gained the full 200, so the next strike from the gun will put you below 30%, and so on. This might be why you feel your equations don't always work quite right.
So the "burstiness" (new word :) of the gun will alter the effect. Add to that the burstiness of the shield recharge rate, and things get tricky.
Since an active shield recharger is also bursty but its recharge rate is not dependance on your current shield value (or is it), it changes the usefulness to some degree.
Sorry, I'm not being very clear, I'm working long hours and I'm tired... Anyway, it leads me to conclude if you want to break a tank like this, make sure all your guns fire simultaneously to increase the burstiness effect. Of course, this will have a similarly negative effect on your cap.
I love the way all these relatively simple concepts add up to such complex overall behaviour, and that there is no clearly uber way to play eve.
Yep I get what you are saying and you are right. It is possible to break the tank even if your dot would indicate otherwise. Getting a few wreckings in one volley probably would do it but Pottsey has much more hands on experience on that than I and it might be that this has never happened but theoretically it's possible (I've never tried passive tanking ). So when passive tanking giving two shield setups with the same recharge rate I would always take the one with more shield hp, the same of course applies to cap.
__________
Capacitor research |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.05.26 05:28:00 -
[226]
ôGetting a few wreckings in one volley probably would do it but Pottsey has much more hands on experience on that than I and it might be that this has never happened but theoretically it's possible (I've never tried passive tanking ). So when passive tanking giving two shield setups with the same recharge rate I would always take the one with more shield hp, the same of course applies to cap.ö
You are right but due to the high hitpoints firing all the weapons at once knocks you down around about 1%. My current ship has 12k hitpoints on the live server and it goes up to 18k on the test server. Also the shields only lose a small amount of regen below 30% so 29% isnÆt noticeable slower. For your idea to work you would have to knock the shields from 30 to under 25% perhaps even 30 to under 20%. Once you take shield resistance into account itÆs not easy to knock a 12 or 18k shields down 5% in 1 volley.
I have seen the effect you described before when someone hit me and each volley took me down more then 5%. Although there DPS was lower then my regen at one point a fluke hit put me below my peak regen just enough for him to knock my shields down. But this was during testing and my shields still hold up for 2 to 4 minuets before he got he fluke hit. ItÆs rare enough that I donÆt worry about it and its even more rare with the new shield extenders. Though people you use shield recharges over shield extenders do have a problem.
I found another side effect of passive tanking a few days ago. For short high damage battles where shield boosters only get 1 or 5 bursts off passive tanking is better. It takes an extra Large Shield booster T2 about 1 minuet to heal the same amount of damage as the test server passive tanks base hitpoints. So if the battle is with damage mods in theory someone could do 15k damage in 1 minuet kill the active shield booster T2 setup but the passive tank lives. ThatÆs without taking into account the passive tank regen. High damage short 1 minuet battles seem to favour the high hitpoints based ships.
I do wonder how a T2 large shield extender, 7 damage mod, T2 Domininx would fair in PvP 1v1.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
KamiCrazy
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Posted - 2005.05.26 06:03:00 -
[227]
Edited by: KamiCrazy on 26/05/2005 06:21:22
I've been thinking more on theoretical ship setups for passive tanking.
Have you looked at the rattlesnakes stats?
You might want to consider what you can do with that for passive tanking. It might in fact have the capacity to surpass active tanking WITHOUT using cap killing modules.
EDIT:
Some maths
Large shield extender 2's 115 tf 330 mw at shield upgrades 5
3x large shield extenders = 4200
4200 + 8160 (rattlesnake base) = 12360
12360 * 1.25 = 15450 (skill bonus at 5)
Base shield recharge is at 1500 secs
so 15450/1500 before PDU's
with 6 PDU 2's we're reaching
20704/919
Total cost for this 6 low slots, 3 mid slots, 990mw of grid and 435tf of cpu
The cpu cost is very high, you're not going to be able to follow that with weapons + XL booster + shield amp. However you can use just large booster 2 which would just fit. Also 2 dud high slots due to insufficient CPU.
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Pesht
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Posted - 2005.05.26 06:56:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Pesht on 26/05/2005 06:56:36
While I'll preface this by saying I haven't tried passive tanking, it seems to me it's much better than people generally think, but I think one factor not being considered is that you're doing tests of shield booster heal over time without considering the fact even without a passive shield setup you still regen shield hp, so it puts shield booster effectiveness beyond the simple calculation of (hp healed by booster)/(activation delay) for the max hp healed per second of an active setup since it's got the benefit of both boosting and shield regen.
Passive shield tanks also have massive shield hp, but it should be pointed out because of the nature of shield regen, you really can only tank with about half of it, since above that your shield regen is so little that you won't counter damage, where as an active setup can tank with 100% of their shields.
Not trying to turn this into an argument over which is beter, they both have their uses, just wanted to point out my personal disagreement with some of your points. I'd like to add great post, however, was very interesting and taught me a lot.
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KamiCrazy
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Posted - 2005.05.26 08:02:00 -
[229]
The shield regen gain at BS levels for active tanking is so low its negligible.
Also, passive tanking don't rely on the shield regen at 50%+ levels, because shields follow a similar regeneration curve to capacitor energy it regenerates best at around 35%. So passive tanking gets better as your shields go lower until 35%, if it can't hold after that then your tanking goes to poo because regeneration rates quickly fall from 35-0.
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Dark PIne
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Posted - 2005.05.26 16:03:00 -
[230]
I tested passive tanking with Raven:
Hi: 6xSiege + 2x small hybrids
Med: passive T2 thermal and kinetic amplifiers, T2 shield recharger, 3x T2 large shield extender
Low: 5x shield power relay (named)
Shield stats:
EM 0%, Kinetic 63%, Thermal 50%, Explosive 60%
HP 11124
Recharge rate 405 sec
Peak shield recharge rate is therefore 68,7 HP/sec
I tried a lvl4 Guristas Extravaganza. When three Pith destroyers started shooting me the shield went below 30% before my torps reached the first Scorp, and therefore I had to warp out. My usual active setup has been enough with GE before.
The problem seems to be with the cap that cannot be used. Also the peak recharge rate corresponds to 274HP / 4 sec (= officer grade large shield booster), which just is not enough without a shield boost amplifier in lvl 4 missions.
I think I will stay with the active setup atm, but when the test server changes are taken into use I'll give passive tanking an other try. |
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.05.26 17:59:00 -
[231]
My battleship is at 154 hp/s on the test server as a passive shield tank. ThatÆs 770hpÆs over 5 seconds. That beats an extra large shield booster T2 which is only 600 over 5 seconds. But I do use up more slots.
ôit regenerates best at around 35%. So passive tanking gets better as your shields go lower until 35%, if it can't hold after that then your tanking goes to poo because regeneration rates quickly fall from 35-0.ö
The peak is at 30% not 35% and going below 30% has a low impact. You donÆt start losing lots until you get under 20% and there is drastic drop at 10%. At 10% its time to start warping out and due to the high hitpoints left even at 10% you tend to have time to warp out.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
zoturi
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Posted - 2005.05.29 10:50:00 -
[232]
Hi, Is Ferox better with 4x shield power relays I or 4x PDS II ?
Tell me some good a passive tank setup for Ferox, please.
Thanks
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xOm3gAx
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Posted - 2005.05.30 08:09:00 -
[233]
with a domi and all t2 gear u can achieve a passive tank of ~84 seconds and tank pretty much anything... of course u cant shoot back but if you can use drones...
-----------------
*Decloaks and starts blasting your sig* Applesauce Biotch
~~~My Banner got nerfed~~~
But I still love the mods anyway
Succumb to your nightmares
Darkness shall embrace you |
Jozzer
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Posted - 2005.06.01 10:57:00 -
[234]
Question: "Is it possible to play EVE succesfully without a maths grade? "
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Chris Henry
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:25:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Jozzer
Question: "Is it possible to play EVE succesfully without a maths grade? "
Im increasingly think 'no'.
Oh and *cough* BUMP!
Why isn't this extremely usefull guide a sticky yet?
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A Puppet Master |
Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2005.06.02 13:32:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Chris Henry
Originally by: Jozzer
Question: "Is it possible to play EVE succesfully without a maths grade? "
Im increasingly think 'no'.
Oh and *cough* BUMP!
Why isn't this extremely usefull guide a sticky yet?
It is in the modules sticky.
__________
Capacitor research |
Trigg Lee
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Posted - 2005.06.19 06:00:00 -
[237]
Looking for comments, suggestions, and/or improvements to my first try at the passive setup.
Heres my setup for a Ferox
5x Adv Limos Heavy Launcher.
2x Light Nuetron Blaster1.Only because I cant fit mediums yet.
2x Large Extenders
1x Kinetic Amp1
1x Thermal Amp1
1x EM Amp1
4x Shield power Relay1
This puts me at 5175 Shield Cap with Recharge time of 327.
If I understand correctly Im at approx 40 Shield Hitpoints recharge per Sec. This seems a little low compared to others Ive seen posted here... However..I started with 2Large, and 3 Medium extenders with over 6500 Shield cap and again..If I figured correctly approx 50 recharge per sec. But that left me with only 5 small blasters and 2 Light launchers for offense..Which is why I switched to the Resistance Amps gaining at least 20% less damage taken, and giving up approx 20% of my recharge, and gaining enough CPU and PG to use my Heavy Launchers...Im hoping that evens out.
I am currently in route to test this current setup as I type. I did however help a friend of mine do the Lev3 mission with the Battleship at the very end. Extravaganza I think it was called when I had the 5 Extenders with practically no offense. I was amazed at how well it worked. I tanked everything up to the very end EXCEPT for the BS :)
At times I had 5 or 6 Cruisers all shooting at me with random smaller frigs and Defensive turrets mixed in. Shields normally held between 50-80%
Anyway...Any suggestions on improvements accepted and appreciated.
And I am still fairly new to the game, only been playing a bit over a month, so I am still working on some of the skills to get into some of the T2 gear.
Thx
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.06.19 07:33:00 -
[238]
ô2x Large Extenders
1x Kinetic Amp1
1x Thermal Amp1
1x EM Amp1
4x Shield power Relay1ö
On my Dominix I found out that 1 Invulnerability field and PDS modules worked well. Perhaps if you scarp the 3 hardeners, fit 1 Invulnerability field then fit more shield extenders and take out the 4 shield relays and put in 4 PDS modules. Powergrid should be ok but CPU might be a problem, you might need 1 CPU booster and 3 PDS modules.
It might not work on a Ferox so can you let us know how well it goes. DonÆt forget shield extenders are getting a big boost in the up coming patch which also boosts our passive tanks setups.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Trigg Lee
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Posted - 2005.06.25 21:57:00 -
[239]
I hope I didnt double post this. Had somwe technical difficulties the first try.
Anyway..I am about to build my first BS, and am trying to decide which will be the better Passive Shield Tank.
The Raven with 8Medium & 4 Low slots, or the Scorp with 6 Medium & 5 lows.
Has anyone run the #'s on these and determined a conclusion ? I browsed the thread here and didnt find an answer... So if its posted somewhere and I just missed it. Apologies in advance.
Thx
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.06.26 07:58:00 -
[240]
That used to be an easy question to answer now itÆs a little more tricky. I cannot fly either ship as I refuse to get into Caldari ship but in theory the Scorp should make the better passive tank. The Raven has more firepower, if you kill faster you have to tank less. Do you PvP or PvE?
With the new shield extenders from the upcoming patch the Scorp seems far better from a defence point of view as you can get very high hitpoints.
I tend to now go for hitpoints over regen.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
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Bleakwinter
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Posted - 2005.07.02 03:02:00 -
[241]
bumpity bump cause it took me 10 mins to find this again
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.07.27 10:58:00 -
[242]
Edited by: HippoKing on 27/07/2005 11:01:26
all u guys whinging bout ur HUUUUGE shields dying so fast, y don't u use active hardeners - amplifiers really do blow
after all - what else is your caps gonna be used on?
even a BS setup without any cap recharge increase should be able to keep 3 (named) hardeners (not inv fields) going indefinetely at >50% caps.
also, i REALLY want to see the stats that pottsey could get out of passive tanking a rattlesnake after the shield extender beef  it has >8000 base shields, and 6midslots, 6 lowslots. even better, it needs gallente BS as well as caldari, so pottsey might fly one without her anti-caldari bigotry getting in the way
edit: bleakwinter - its on the modules sticky
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.07.27 11:28:00 -
[243]
ôalso REALLY want to see the stats that pottsey could get out of passive tanking a rattlesnakeö
If someone wants to lend me one on the test server I will train the skills up to try it. I assume no one will lend me one on the live server.
ôafter all - what else is your caps gonna be used on?ö
A little under underappreciated module call an Invulnerability Field. Most people think they are useless due to the cap drain but if you can run them they can give more resistance then using 4 normal hardeners.
My 2 dread fields give me 55% EM, 64% Thermal, 73% Kinetic, 81% Explosive. I believe thatÆs better then using 4 officer active hardeners that give 55% to each. I say its better not because I get more resistance but because the modules are cheaper and I get the same resistance as 4 hardeners but I only use 2 slots. Just think what happens if I use 3 or 4 slots. 4 is a little tricky to run, I can only run 3 none stop.
ôy don't u use active hardeners - amplifiers really do blowö
Part of the benefits of an passive tank is a fully passive tank has 0 cap drain so is immune to Nos and Cap nautiluses Which is usefull in PvP though pointless in PvE. I tend to either go fully passive with amplifiers or the other extreme end to Invulnerability Field.
Recently I have tried playing with brute force HP regen and 0 hardeners.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
DarK
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Posted - 2005.07.27 11:36:00 -
[244]
I have recently been passive tanking my Cerberus for use in Caldari Navy missions. The high resists to begin with mean I only need 1 or 2 em hardners. The tank I use is pretty weak, I mainly rely on hit and run style, but that isn't usefull when the frigs warp jam you.
To kill small ships(cruisers/frigs) I use the following setup:
5 Assault launchers
2 Large Extender II
2 Hardners of choice
1 ABII
4 PDU II
I only have shield management and that otherone at lvl4. I get 8204 shields and 560 recharge, which is 14.65 shield/s. Crap, I know. But it is enough with the resists I get, as I can just move to a distance with ABII.
The whole design of this setup is to have enough shields to tank them for a short time while I kill frigs that web and move to distance.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.07.27 11:47:00 -
[245]
ôI get 8204 shields and 560 recharge, which is 14.65 shield/s. Crap, I know.ö
8204 hitpoints and 560 recharge is 36.62 HP regen. You do shield Hitpoints / shield cap *2.5 to work out peak HP regen.
Average regen over a battle is the same just replace 2.5 with 2.2 or 2.0,
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Alberta
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Posted - 2005.07.27 11:48:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Pottsey
Recently I have tried playing with brute force HP regen and 0 hardeners.
Unless you have some really specific use in mind I can't see that there's much life in this direction. I can't think of anything that you could fit in a couple of slots that could provide as much benefit as those invulnerability fields.
My Thoughts on Game Balance |
Jacob Majestic
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Posted - 2005.07.27 12:12:00 -
[247]
I know I've posted about passive Ferox theory here somewhere, but here's a little update for the Cold War.
Why passive Ferox?
- Lots of flexibility on high slots.
- Good numbers of mid and low slots to sustain a passive tank.
- Battlecruiser bonus (+5% shield resistance per level).
What are the problems?
- Grid
- Grid
- Grid
Your tank
First, fit your tank, since it's going to be the most intensive part of your fitting. The first thing you should fit are 2x Large Shield Extender IIs (or best-named if your skills aren't that great*). The next thing you should do is decide if you want to go with a full passive setup or a semi-passive setup.
Full Passive
Full passive setups rely solely on your shield's passive recharge for shield boosting.
+ higher boost
- boost over a limited range
- lower shield HP
For a full passive setup, fit 3 to 4 shield power relays in your low slots and 0 to 1 shield recharger IIs in your mid slots. Finish your setup with shield hardeners or PDUs as appropriate.
Semi-Passive
Semi-passive setups use a cap-stable shield booster to supplement your passive shield recharge.
- lower shield boost
+ higher shield HP
+ good boost over wider range
For a semi-passive setup, fit a Small Shield Booster II (must be T2!) in a mid slot and 4 PDUs (T2 is good here too) in your low slots. Add named shield hardeners a appropriate.**
Weapons
For your main weapons weapons, you are pretty much limited to those that are low-grid and low-cap. This means that you are restricted to M projectiles, heavy and assault launchers, and S weapons. If you are really having trouble fitting things, remember that the full passive setup is grid-limited for fitting weapons, while the semi-passive setup is CPU limited.
-fin-
* The best-named large shield extender uses significantly less CPU and grid than the T2 shield extender, meaning that if you're having fitting troubles you can always swap them out for something more palatable.
** If you are cap stable with everything running with 3 PDU2s, fit a shield power relay or a damage mod instead of another PDU2.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.07.27 12:49:00 -
[248]
remember, get your battlecruiser skill to at least 4 for a good passive tank - 20% to all resistances on a ferox is not to be sniffed at
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DarK
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Posted - 2005.07.27 13:18:00 -
[249]
Thanks for that, very helpful.
You are right about that shield booster, too bad I only just odnt have enough power. I need to upgrade my shield skills a bit. Going to test the cerb and ferox tonight, I'm really interested in this:)
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Creed74
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Posted - 2005.07.27 13:50:00 -
[250]
Right then, I'm looking for a Tank dont mind passive / semi passive for 0.0 space, while mining. I can only currently fly Caldari ships (all of them). But I'm looking for what ship would be best + what skills + what setup. The rats with be Sansha rats so it will be EM / Thermal protection I need.
Any help would be great so I can mine with other account :)
Many thanks in advance.
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Jacob Majestic
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Posted - 2005.07.27 14:03:00 -
[251]
Originally by: DarK
Thanks for that, very helpful.
You are right about that shield booster, too bad I only just odnt have enough power. I need to upgrade my shield skills a bit. Going to test the cerb and ferox tonight, I'm really interested in this:)
Do you have the -3% grid for shield upgrades implant? It really helps for things like that 
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Kelhund
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Posted - 2005.07.27 14:14:00 -
[252]
Thx Jacob...been toying around with passive and semi-passive setups on my Ferox for awhile...only problem is I have more skill in rails and none of the new missle skills yet hehe. I'll keep workin on it tho
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DarK
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Posted - 2005.07.27 14:15:00 -
[253]
i have the 5% one 
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benwallace
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Posted - 2005.07.27 14:17:00 -
[254]
Pottsey
gank setup > passive setup
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Jacob Majestic
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Posted - 2005.07.27 14:33:00 -
[255]
Edited by: Jacob Majestic on 27/07/2005 14:33:54
Originally by: benwallace
Pottsey
gank setup > passive setup
I think we've been over this
Originally by: Kelhund
Thx Jacob...been toying around with passive and semi-passive setups on my Ferox for awhile...only problem is I have more skill in rails and none of the new missle skills yet hehe. I'll keep workin on it tho
If you want to use rails, you should have enough cap and grid in the semi-passive setup to use 5x 150mm Railgun IIs and 2x Heavy Launchers or Assault Launchers.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.07.27 15:21:00 -
[256]
ôWhat are the problems?
- Grid
- Grid
- Gridö
This isnÆt directed at anyone just a general guideline as some people tend to forget about the other modules. There are 3 solutions I can think of right now, first fit shield recharges over shield extenders this frees up grid but lowers your HP regen by a small amount sometimes. On my Domi 4 shield extenders are better then 4 shield recharges but in the 5th slot 1 shield recharge module gives the same benefit as a 5th shield extenders.
Solution 2 use PDS modules, the downside is the higher CPU usage and less HP regen but you do gain cap.
Solution 3 use the -5% Shield extender powergrid implants though personally I prefer the other shield implants.
ôUnless you have some really specific use in mind I can't see that there's much life in this direction. I can't think of anything that you could fit in a couple of slots that could provide as much benefit as those invulnerability fields.ö
When using brute force HP regen I have 156 HP/s that means to break the tank you have to do a good 190+ HP/s. I found for PvE being able to tank 190 HP/s is more then enough a lot of the time. ItÆs not the best setup ever but itÆs cheap and easy to use. You are almost always better off switching hardeners for the rats you face but if your lazy or swapping rats all the time brute force HP regen works.
ôPottsey
gank setup > passive setupö
ThatÆs been proven wrong so many times I donÆt know where to start. Passive tanks often beat gank setups as the gank setup cannot kill the passive tank fast enough before its own weak tank dies if it even has a tank as pure gank setups donÆt tank.
It isnÆt a clear 1 setup is better then the other its 50/50 at least thatÆs what my win ratio is right now. I heard other passive tankers are doing better then me for PvP.
_________________________________________________
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.07.27 15:44:00 -
[257]
Edited by: Pottsey on 27/07/2005 15:44:57
ôalso, i REALLY want to see the stats that pottsey could get out of passive tanking a rattlesnake after the shield extender beef it has >8000 base shields, and 6midslots, 6 lowslots. even better, it needs gallente BS as well as caldari, so pottsey might fly one without her anti-caldari bigotry getting in the wayö
Wow, after looking at that theoretical numbers I could hit 187.8 HP/s regen with 6 T1 modules. T2 modules are just amazing well over 200HP/s Sustainable. Could even be 250 but I am to lasy to work it out with T2 modules.
Though choice what do I go for next a freighter or rattlesnake? Thanks for pointing that ship out to me.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Elbekar Yemdril
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Posted - 2005.07.27 17:45:00 -
[258]
Post Cold War I changed my full passive / heavy launchers Ferox setup to a full passive / railgun Ferox setup for lvl 3 missions in Caldari space (guristas and occasionnal angels and blood raiders). And I never had any problem with it.
Highs
4 x named 250mm railguns
3 x named assault launchers
Mids
1 x 10mn Afterburner T2
1 x Large Shield Extender T2
2 x named Hardeners (EM, explosive)
1 x Target Painter
Lows
1 x RCU
3 x PDS T2
Note : do not fear to go full passive, if you're not sure change the Target painter for a Medium Shield Extender T2 or another hardener but you should discover how reliable full passive tank is in no time. And many thanks to Pottsey.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.07.27 18:27:00 -
[259]
please explain your choice of hardeners
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benwallace
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Posted - 2005.07.27 22:17:00 -
[260]
ôPottsey
gank setup > passive setupö
ThatÆs been proven wrong so many times I donÆt know where to start. Passive tanks often beat gank setups as the gank setup cannot kill the passive tank fast enough before its own weak tank dies if it even has a tank as pure gank setups donÆt tank.
It isnÆt a clear 1 setup is better then the other its 50/50 at least thatÆs what my win ratio is right now. I heard other passive tankers are doing better then me for PvP.
come on sisi I would like to test this I will be in a gank setup ship you can passive tank and i'll prove you wrong
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Elbekar Yemdril
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Posted - 2005.07.27 22:45:00 -
[261]
Originally by: HippoKing
please explain your choice of hardeners
Explosive was an error (I edited my post). Hardeners I use are EM and thermal. I chose them to have good overall resists because I'm too lazy to change them according to the rats.
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Kelhund
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Posted - 2005.07.28 01:02:00 -
[262]
Jacob: Thanks, I'm working up to T2 meds right now, planning on flipping over to a Harpy or Eagle, and will toy around with the passive stuff on the Ferox and other ships...
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.07.28 03:15:00 -
[263]
i always find its best too keep your setup too yourself or only your click.
you might find that guy comming after you some day.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.07.28 08:46:00 -
[264]
Edited by: Pottsey on 28/07/2005 08:47:03
ôcome on sisi I would like to test this I will be in a gank setup ship you can passive tank and i'll prove you wrongö
Sure just give me a covo when you see me on the live server and if I am not busy I will swap over to the test server. I bet I last longer then an active tank and my ship is parked in the fight club star base so I can back up what I say.
The only thing I ask is you take into account I mainly PvE so I will not do as well as the pure PvP people. IE my combat skills at mostly at lvl 3 and T1. But if I only just lose which is what should happen it will be clear someone who passive tanks with more then lvl 3 combat skills has a good chance to win.
_________________________________________________
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Calian
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Posted - 2005.07.28 09:26:00 -
[265]
How long will it take before people realize passive tanking is as good as active as far as survivablity? The issue is it takes like 3 times as many of your slots to do it, which is why I won't be ever using it.
-------------------------
I hate everyone, except you. |
Jacob Majestic
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Posted - 2005.07.28 10:55:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Calian
How long will it take before people realize passive tanking is as good as active as far as survivablity? The issue is it takes like 3 times as many of your slots to do it, which is why I won't be ever using it.
This really isn't true, at least with a Ferox -- fitting a credible active tank takes most of your slots anyway. As does fitting a credible EW Ferox, as does fitting a credible gank/sniper Ferox, and so on.
It's only with battleships that you have enough slots to start talking about slot efficiency, and even then you still have the 0 cap use wildcard to throw in there when you start asking "are these extra two slots worth it?"
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Elbekar Yemdril
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Posted - 2005.07.28 12:13:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Calian
The issue is it takes like 3 times as many of your slots to do it, which is why I won't be ever using it.
One thing is to be kept in mind : passive shield tank is always on.
It can't be compared to armor repairers of shield boosters setups you only activate when needed. If you want to run any active setup forever you'll need as much slots as you need for a passive shield setup. For example if you go the armor tank way, you'll use your low slots for repairers and hardeners and the remaining lows and meds for capacitor recharge.
I don't think active shield tanking is meant to run forever (but I don't have much experience because I don't use it very often) nevertheless i would be surprised to find an active shield tank setup running forever without any module in the lows to make it possible.
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Cesca Peroni
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Posted - 2005.07.29 10:11:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Pottsey
“What are the problems?
- Grid
- Grid
- Grid”
This isn’t directed at anyone just a general guideline as some people tend to forget about the other modules. There are 3 solutions I can think of right now, first fit shield recharges over shield extenders this frees up grid but lowers your HP regen by a small amount sometimes. On my Domi 4 shield extenders are better then 4 shield recharges but in the 5th slot 1 shield recharge module gives the same benefit as a 5th shield extenders.
Solution 2 use PDS modules, the downside is the higher CPU usage and less HP regen but you do gain cap.
Solution 3 use the -5% Shield extender powergrid implants though personally I prefer the other shield implants.
“Unless you have some really specific use in mind I can't see that there's much life in this direction. I can't think of anything that you could fit in a couple of slots that could provide as much benefit as those invulnerability fields.”
When using brute force HP regen I have 156 HP/s that means to break the tank you have to do a good 190+ HP/s. I found for PvE being able to tank 190 HP/s is more then enough a lot of the time. It’s not the best setup ever but it’s cheap and easy to use. You are almost always better off switching hardeners for the rats you face but if your lazy or swapping rats all the time brute force HP regen works.
“Pottsey
gank setup > passive setup”
That’s been proven wrong so many times I don’t know where to start. Passive tanks often beat gank setups as the gank setup cannot kill the passive tank fast enough before its own weak tank dies if it even has a tank as pure gank setups don’t tank.
It isn’t a clear 1 setup is better then the other its 50/50 at least that’s what my win ratio is right now. I heard other passive tankers are doing better then me for PvP.
Don¦t know if the Stats for Shieldrelay T2 are correct, but it says that you get a 10% Grid Bonus per Module. This would be like a T1 Powercore and a T1 Shieldrelay in one. This could solve a lot of Grid problems by using Extenders. Maybe someone mentioned this before.
Greeting Cesca Peroni
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Troezar
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Posted - 2005.07.31 12:29:00 -
[269]
I've been trying this with a Raven and with all Power relays in low and three Tech 2 extenders with 3 Tech 2 rechargers I get a figure of:
(12496/352)*2.5 = 88.7
Does this sound about right?
I'm trying to spec a build suitable for lvl 3 missions as with my current set ups and skills missions like Spy Stash get a bit nasty sometimes
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Pwyle Kenobi
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Posted - 2005.08.05 06:32:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Troezar
I've been trying this with a Raven and with all Power relays in low and three Tech 2 extenders with 3 Tech 2 rechargers I get a figure of:
(12496/352)*2.5 = 88.7
Does this sound about right?
I'm trying to spec a build suitable for lvl 3 missions as with my current set ups and skills missions like Spy Stash get a bit nasty sometimes
I have found the same. It's a little disappointing. Anyone found an effective lvl 3 / lvl 4 set-up for the Raven post-patch?
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Remedial
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Posted - 2005.08.05 07:45:00 -
[271]
Pottsey I'm prepping for placing my Ferox in a command module position where I absolutely have to maximize my survivability in fleet encounters. This means warping in at distances, and having enough shield regen to survive a gank long enough to get out. Keeping in mind the ferox's ship bonuses, am I better off cramming t2 large extenders on it with PDS, or going for an active shield tank? Only has 5 midslots and 4 lows, remember.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.08.05 09:05:00 -
[272]
ôThis means warping in at distances, and having enough shield regen to survive a gank long enough to get out. Keeping in mind the ferox's ship bonuses, am I better off cramming t2 large extenders on it with PDS, or going for an active shield tank? Only has 5 midslots and 4 lows, remember.ö
Against gank setups pure hitpoints is always better then HP regen. Active boosters donÆt get long enough to heal decent mount of hitpoints same for the HP regen on a passive tank. PDS also serve to points adding extra hitpoints and giving you enough cap to run modules. So I would go for that.
I did a lot of testing and found hitpoints ships lasted a lot longer against gank ships then active shield boosters or passive regen ships.
ôI have found the same. It's a little disappointing. Anyone found an effective lvl 3 / lvl 4 set-up for the Raven post-patch?ö
I was helping Shaemell Buttleson with passive tank module and he says he came up with a great Raven setup that he soloed a solo a level 4 angel extravaganza missio.
Copy and paste time
ôjust to let you know i have pasive tamked a raven and have managed to solo a level 4 angel extravaganza mission.
HI.... 6 cruise launchers
MID 4 large t2 extenders, 1 EM ward, 1 shield recharger.
LOW, 5 Shield Relays.
I have all skills to 5 except shield management is lev4. only the 3% implants are in for the shield bonus's.ö
Hopefully that helps someone.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Jacob Majestic
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Posted - 2005.08.05 12:41:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Remedial
Pottsey I'm prepping for placing my Ferox in a command module position where I absolutely have to maximize my survivability in fleet encounters. This means warping in at distances, and having enough shield regen to survive a gank long enough to get out. Keeping in mind the ferox's ship bonuses, am I better off cramming t2 large extenders on it with PDS, or going for an active shield tank? Only has 5 midslots and 4 lows, remember.
- No active tank a Ferox can fit is going to keep it from being melted by a gank-setup battleship.
- A Ferox with 2x T2 shield extenders and 4x T2 PDUs is going to have >9000 shield. Assuming you fit hardeners, it would take a Gankageddon ~10 seconds to melt your shields (at 1400 raw DPS). This should be enough time to get out of dodge. (Once your shields go down, you are dead meat, though.)
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elFarto
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Posted - 2005.08.05 16:15:00 -
[274]
Edited by: elFarto on 05/08/2005 16:15:36
Originally by: Remedial
Pottsey I'm prepping for placing my Ferox in a command module position where I absolutely have to maximize my survivability in fleet encounters. This means warping in at distances, and having enough shield regen to survive a gank long enough to get out. Keeping in mind the ferox's ship bonuses, am I better off cramming t2 large extenders on it with PDS, or going for an active shield tank? Only has 5 midslots and 4 lows, remember.
If your referring to the new Siege warfare modules, park your lovely Ferox somewhere else in the system, preferably a safespot. The modules are said to work to all members on your gang currently in the same system as you.
Also with each module taking 500tf of CPU, good luck fitting anything better than a civilian railgun afterwards
Regards
elFarto
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Remedial
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Posted - 2005.08.05 17:40:00 -
[275]
Keep in mind guys, that the modules only take 50tf, not 500tf at the moment, and that I said I'm warping at 100km. Gankegeddons don't do 1400 dps at 100km with Radio Ls.
Also I THINK I can fit 3 T2 extenders if I really cram stuff and only use standard missile launchers in the highs.
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Jacob Majestic
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Posted - 2005.08.05 18:02:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Remedial
Keep in mind guys, that the modules only take 50tf, not 500tf at the moment, and that I said I'm warping at 100km. Gankegeddons don't do 1400 dps at 100km with Radio Ls.
Also I THINK I can fit 3 T2 extenders if I really cram stuff and only use standard missile launchers in the highs.
Also, remember that the best-named shield extenders are almost as good and use less grid and CPU.
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Dimitri Forgroth
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Posted - 2005.08.05 20:08:00 -
[277]
Edited by: Dimitri Forgroth on 05/08/2005 20:07:55
Now i can understand my post being removed, but why was that extremely constructive post before also removed?
Don't be a bad loser | DPS Spreadsheet |
Troezar
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Posted - 2005.08.05 23:29:00 -
[278]
Originally by: PottseyôI have found the same. It's a little disappointing. Anyone found an effective lvl 3 / lvl 4 set-up for the Raven post-patch?ö
I was helping Shaemell Buttleson with passive tank module and he says he came up with a great Raven setup that he soloed a solo a level 4 angel extravaganza missio.
Copy and paste time
ôjust to let you know i have pasive tamked a raven and have managed to solo a level 4 angel extravaganza mission.
HI.... 6 cruise launchers
MID 4 large t2 extenders, 1 EM ward, 1 shield recharger.
LOW, 5 Shield Relays.
I have all skills to 5 except shield management is lev4. only the 3% implants are in for the shield bonus's.ö
Hopefully that helps someone.
[/quote
Tried this set up and only get 87.7 with my skills and sheield relay 1's, not found any II's for sale. Not tried it in anger but the figure just looks too low to me
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Pwyle Kenobi
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Posted - 2005.08.08 01:01:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Troezar
Originally by: PottseyôI have found the same. It's a little disappointing. Anyone found an effective lvl 3 / lvl 4 set-up for the Raven post-patch?ö
I was helping Shaemell Buttleson with passive tank module and he says he came up with a great Raven setup that he soloed a solo a level 4 angel extravaganza missio.
Copy and paste time
ôjust to let you know i have pasive tamked a raven and have managed to solo a level 4 angel extravaganza mission.
HI.... 6 cruise launchers
MID 4 large t2 extenders, 1 EM ward, 1 shield recharger.
LOW, 5 Shield Relays.
I have all skills to 5 except shield management is lev4. only the 3% implants are in for the shield bonus's.ö
Hopefully that helps someone.
[/quote
Tried this set up and only get 87.7 with my skills and sheield relay 1's, not found any II's for sale. Not tried it in anger but the figure just looks too low to me
How about the following:
Low: 5 Shield Relays (Cannot find T2 in any market!)
Med: 1 T2 EM Ward, 2 T2 Shield Rechargers, 3 Large T2 Extenders
High: Whatever you can cram in (for me - a mix of medium rails, heavy launchers and torp launchers)
I can solo lvl 3 pretty easily. Can get hairy if anyone gets inside my targeting range for my rails but the heavy missiles work at any range from zero to their max range. Yet to try this on lvl 4 (I have my doubts that heavies will be sufficient).
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Shaemell Buttleson
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Posted - 2005.08.08 11:44:00 -
[280]
Since I tried the setup Pottsey posted I have tried it with a Gurrista invulnrability ward instead of the EM ward. I was disapointed as alltough it was the only item that used cap it drained it in a matter of minutes as the 5 shield relays seriously nerf the cap regen. The EM ward I can keep going forever though and as it is the EM torps the rats were using that gave me problems I get on better with this.
However I think the gurrista mod would be superb on higher HP passive shield systems than low HP with a fast regen and especialy good on ships like the vampire Dominix where it sucks cap and has a huge shield well over 20k.
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Troezar
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Posted - 2005.08.08 11:50:00 -
[281]
Pwyle have you tried using drones for the close stuff? I have skill to use up to 8 heavies so I'll have to try your set-up...
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.08.08 11:51:00 -
[282]
ôalltough it was the only item that used cap it drained it in a matter of minutes as the 5 shield relays seriously nerf the cap regen.ö
Try swapping out some of the relays for PDS modules until you get enough cap to run the modules you want.
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Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Apoll
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Posted - 2005.08.09 09:03:00 -
[283]
Hi, interesting threading.
Thank you very much Pottsey and the rest. :)
Now I came upon the Cyclone (interesting BC) and I'm consindering to go for Passive tank (let's use that 5% per level boost).
(5X 220mm Autocannons)
Med
2 Large Shield Extenders - Em Hardener named - 10mn AB T2
4 Shield Power relay.
7720 shield (skills at 4) and recharge around 260s? the recharge rate calculation is my problem. I need to wait days put my hands on the ship and ship fit tool doesn't calculate the BC bonus. At 260s produce aprox 75hp/s at peak. Is that correct?
(Also did anyone saw T2 SPR out?)
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2005.08.09 12:37:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Apoll
Now I came upon the Cyclone (interesting BC) and I'm consindering to go for Passive tank (let's use that 5% per level boost).
Fyi that 5% per level boost is 5% extra boost per level on shield boosters.
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Apoll
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Posted - 2005.08.09 13:24:00 -
[285]
Oops. Mea Culpa.
(trying to move and make an active shield boost setup)
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2005.08.09 13:33:00 -
[286]
Edited by: Andrew Redburn on 09/08/2005 13:34:13
Originally by: Elbekar Yemdril
Originally by: Calian
I don't think active shield tanking is meant to run forever (but I don't have much experience because I don't use it very often) nevertheless i would be surprised to find an active shield tank setup running forever without any module in the lows to make it possible.
Large Tech II, 2 Amps, 3 Hardeners
Lows 5 PDU IIs, which you need to fit Heavy Nos and 6 Sieges anyway
Running forever and tanking around 90/s. Since you got 50% more resistance than passive tank, that is comparable to 180/s passive. Additionally you get ~20/s passive recharge at optimal shield recharge as well.
Imho passive is a lot worse, simply because you only have the high recharge of 2.5 times shield/recharge time at ~30%. From 60-100 you got a lot less => far less damage needed to lower your shields. If you are at ~40% and a hard volley hits your shields, you easily fall below 30% which means again lot less recharge => you never reach your 180 wih maximum passive tanking, thus can't sustain your tank for long.
An active tank can easily switch Large II vs. XLarge II and then tank 180/s active PLUS hardeners for at least 2Mins, not to mention that an enemy within NOS range will allow far longer tanking. There are some uber modules like Gist Boosters that will laugh at any passive tank, lots less cap than Tech I or II, lots more tanking than any passive tank (I always combine with 2 Amps).
Active > Passive. Any time, any where.
Ganking > Tanking. Most times :P
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Pwyle Kenobi
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Posted - 2005.08.09 23:32:00 -
[287]
Very interesting post on active shield boosting Andrew. I'm going to give it a go on my Raven and see how it compares to my current passive set up in practice (for missions and NPC pirate hunting). I'd be interested in Pottsey's views on Andrew's proposed active boost set up.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.08.10 09:36:00 -
[288]
Edited by: Pottsey on 10/08/2005 09:43:30
ôSince you got 50% more resistance than passive tank, that is comparable to 180/s passive.ö &
ôImho passive is a lot worseö
ThatÆs very unfair as passive tanks have hardeners to, some even 50% active hardeners. Also your active tank only boosted 3 types of resistance while my passive tank boosts all 4 types of resistance.
Please compare your active with hardeners to a passive with hardeners. I donÆt know of many passive tankers that go around with no hardeners.
ôThere are some uber modules like Gist Boosters that will laugh at any passive tank, lots less cap than Tech I or II, lots more tanking than any passive tankö
I donÆt have a problem with active tankers comparing uber modules to passive tank setups as long as you do an active tank uber module compared to a passive tank uber module.
ItÆs not really a good comparison to do an active tank with 1 module thatÆs costs more then the passive tank + ship.
ôAn active tank can easily switch Large II vs. XLarge II and then tank 180/s active PLUS hardeners for at least 2Mins, not to mention that an enemy within NOS range will allow far longer tanking.ö
I think you forgot to take into account the passive tanks totel hitpoint as often the total hitpoints are high enough on the passive to make up for less regen. Take my 21k shields with all 4 resistanceÆs boosted. It takes an extra large booster 7 minuets to heal as many hitpoints as I have base. An Xlarge T2 takes almost 4 minuets to heal as much as I have base.
(Edit: If the enemy is shooting my resistance that I boosted and you did not as you only took 3 hardners the time goes up another 30%+ for the booster to catch up with my base hitpoints so 9.1 minuets for the large T2 shield booster)
ThatÆs not taking into account my regen or your shield amps which might adjust it a minuet either way. I also assume most Xlarge T2 boosters cannot run for 4+ minuets.
ôActive > Passive. Any time, any where.
Ganking > Tanking. Most times :Pö
I donÆt agree. When someone deals enough damage to kill you in fewer than 2 minuets the shield booster has healed way under half of what the passive tank would have as base hitpoints so the active tank dies and the passive lives. Or you could say the passive tank lasts over twice as long as even without regen. Passive tanks work very well against gank ship due to this.
ôIf you are at ~40% and a hard volley hits your shields, you easily fall below 30% which means again lot less recharge =>ö
That doesnÆt happen most of the time 1 volley puts me down 1%. Enough damage to knock my shields down in 10% would kill an active tank ship in 1 or 2 volleys. While the passive tank would still have anther 9 volleys time to warp out.
You seem to be basing a passive tank regen on a active tanks hitpoints. In which case what you say happens, but its extremely rare to see a passive tank with the same hitpoints as an active tank. Most passive tanks have triple to x5 more hitpoints.
You can build passive tanks without extra hitpoints by using shield rechargeÆs over extenders but I donÆt recommend it as you end up with less passive regen and less hitpoints.
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Spurgo
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Posted - 2005.08.10 12:31:00 -
[289]
I use a scorpion and i have found a setting that allow me to tank 1 angel BS (500.000) + 2 angel cruisers (110.000) at same time, forever.
I called it semi passive tankage.
Medium slots:
3 active resist 1 passive
2 Lshield extenders techII
1 Medium shield booster techII
1 Booster amplifier
Low slots
4 PDU
Try this, keep all stuff active and be ready to tank the hell!
i have 50 resist in em 70 in kin 73 esplo 60 heat...but u can manage to have 2 ressitances near 80 if u need to tank a specific rat.
11k shield and 120 shield regen from the booster every 3 secs.
My capacitor stops to go down at 29%
ENJOY
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Flissifrus
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Posted - 2005.08.10 12:37:00 -
[290]
do you have all cap skills and shield skills at lvl 5 for that to work? because I think taht this would not work unless all skills at lvl 5 that concern cap and shield
"From the shield tank master"
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.08.10 12:49:00 -
[291]
Edited by: Pottsey on 10/08/2005 12:49:09
ôMy capacitor stops to go down at 29%ö
Could you do me a favour and run that setup outside a stars base for an hour? I want to see if it really stabiliserÆs at 29% or just so slow that it takes a very long time to go down. Just if itÆs still at 29% after 1 hour then it proves cap does not peak at 30% but below 30% which goes against what everyone else says about cap and my own testing which gave me mixed results
Nice setup by the way. Not many people get hybrids to work well.
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2005.08.10 15:41:00 -
[292]
Edited by: Andrew Redburn on 10/08/2005 15:42:00
You either don't have 21k shields and 180 regen or you don't have hardeners, simply because you can not fit for both. Unless you prove me wrong, my earlier statements are valid and active > passive.
I tried a bit with setups and here is what I found does maximum recharge/shield hp
Raven:
6 CM Launcher
2 Heavy Nos (for killing frigs, HACs, ...)
4 best named Shield Extenders I
4 Shield Rechargers II
Low
either
5 PDU II => >19k hp and ~75shield regen/s
or
3 Low slot shield regenerator (35% less cap, 15% more shield, tech II not possible due to PG needs)
2 RCU II => 15k shiels with ~80shield regen/s
If u are able to fit Tech II Extenders you can get your shields up to 21k and 90regen/s.
I am really curious about your setup.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.08.10 16:51:00 -
[293]
Edited by: Pottsey on 10/08/2005 16:53:56
ôYou either don't have 21k shields and 180 regen or hardeners, simply because you can not fit for both.ö
ItÆs over 21k, with 37.5% to all resistance and 90 ish HP/Regen. I cannot post precise specs as I am in my support ship helping a gang. If you want I can post the percice specs later.
ôI wonder what you are fitting, as you seem to have 21k shields PLUS hardeners and recharge of more than 90...if you do not
active tank > passive...ö
I have a different ship you didnÆt mention the ship in your first post, I also use T2 modules only, have both the shield implants and I use Invulnerability Field (s) to boost resistance. I like Invulnerability Fields as they boost all 4 types of resistance without taking up 4 slots.
The key to using T2 shield extenders is you must have shield upgrades at level 5. The cheap sub 100k implants help a lot. The expensive 5% one even more. There are useful 3 types of shield implant but you can only fit 2 at once.
ô3 Low slot shield regenerator (35% less cap, 15% more shield, tech II not possible due to PG needs)ö
The T2 versions boost PG by 10% per module. I think you mean T2 not possible as you cannot find any to buy.
ôUnless you prove me wrong, my earlier statements are valid and active > passive.ö
Even with your ship 19k hp your active tank with 90 HP/s will take 3.5 minuets to heal the same amount of hitpoints as the passive has base. Only after 3.5mins the average regen on your passive tank will give another 6300 hitpoints. So your active tank then has to heal for another 1 minuet to catch up.
I still stand by what I say if you take out 1 shield extender for 1 Invulnerability Field T2 and use max PDS T2 modules not shield relays and get the skills to fit T2 extenders the pure hitpoints makes up for the loss in regen. In fact as your useing 1 less extender you might even be able to swap to pure T2 extenders now without shield upgrades lvl 4 which I assume you dont have.
I also work out average regen over at battle as 2.0 or 2.2 not 2.5. As 2.5 only works when the enemy cannot break your tank.
But when battles last under 2 to 3 minets then your better with an active tank not passive as the ative tank dies while the Passive stays alive.
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2005.08.11 07:56:00 -
[294]
Edited by: Andrew Redburn on 11/08/2005 07:56:40
Since I misunderstood the Tech II low slot modules description, I will check it out.
Maybe I can turn numbers in favour of passive.
One last remark before I do more testing:
your invulnerability field only gives 37.5% to each, while 3 active hardeners give 50% to each. Since explosion damage is the least common (I would bet Lasers and Hybrids are most used), the damage taken will be usually significantly higher.
Also an active tank with 4 PDU IIs and one Damage mod does a lot more damage (worst case: 7,5% faster rof and 7% more damage).
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Yarden Tajj
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Posted - 2005.08.14 10:49:00 -
[295]
If somebody is looking for Invulnerability Field II's send me an evemail or convo me.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.16 13:45:00 -
[296]
how about a raven passive setup, but with one of the midslots on a gistii a-type small booster (this adds 28.5 DPS regen and can be run constantly)
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.08.16 14:36:00 -
[297]
Originally by: HippoKing
how about a raven passive setup, but with one of the midslots on a gistii a-type small booster (this adds 28.5 DPS regen and can be run constantly)
Er.. That wouldn't be passive, then :p.
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Jacob Majestic
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Posted - 2005.08.16 14:51:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Nyphur
Er.. That wouldn't be passive, then :p.
It's semi-passive, and I do it all the time with a Ferox.
Also, Large Shield Extender IIs make a huge difference over Large Shield Extender Is (50% more shield).
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.16 14:56:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: HippoKing
how about a raven passive setup, but with one of the midslots on a gistii a-type small booster (this adds 28.5 DPS regen and can be run constantly)
Er.. That wouldn't be passive, then :p.
but means it is semipassive
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2005.08.16 15:40:00 -
[300]
Well, with 4 Extenders II and 5 PDU IIs I get 20625 shields.
Using one Invulnerability Field II and 1 Tech II Shield Recharger,
I get a rechargerate of ~797s which results in 25,88*2,5/s => 64,7 max.
In contrast to my active setup, you got 13125 more shield.
With a Large II plus 2 Amplifiers I do 2.5*8/s (7500/937,5s) + 93/s => 48,3/s more than a passive, which results in battles need to last 272s till I have boosted enough to catch up with the passive tank.
Using an XLarge II gives 141/s more than passive which results in 94s battlelength needed till I come equal with an passive setup. With 6640 total cap a Tech II XLarge can be run 92s without taking into account recharge of cap. With recharge and being able to use both Heavy Nos at a time, you can get as much as 61/s (with Tech II nos 65/s) which will allow to run the modules for quite some time (>3 minutes at least).
If you are shot at with anything but explosive, its ~12,5% less time (difference in active hardeners compared to invulnerability field II).
So if you take everything into account, there is to say:
Dmg taken is less than ~95/s -> active can tank forever, passive will die.
Dmg taken >95/s -> if you can run your active XLarge II for longer than 94s the active tanking is better, which will usually be the case.
Battletime less than 1,5mins and XLarge II fitted, passive is better.
Battletime less than 4,5mins and Large II fitted, passive is better.
This basicly means if you are good enough with 4 PDU IIs, Large Tech II, 2 Amps and 2 or 3 hardeners for NPCing, active is better since you can fit Dmg mod additionally and thus kill NPCs faster.
A real gankship with skilled pilot and Tech II guns does around 500/s to a tanked target, so passive will last longer there.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:11:00 -
[301]
Oh well... I tried that passive thingie again since I'm about to fly a Raven once more, and bought a couple of those new tech II rechargers.
Here is my fitting:
Highs: 6 x cruise + 2 x 250mm TII
Meds: 4 x Large TII extenders + 1 Shield Recharger II + 1 x Kinetic active hardener
Lows: 1 x Ballistic Control + 4 x Shield Relays
I get 87.5 shield points regenerated per second at peak and my cap recharge is just enough to sustain the guns and the hardener.
Strong points about this passive tanking:
1¦ 16700 shields which is a very good anti-gang setup (time to warp out).
2¦ Immune to NOS (until the rails don't have cap to fire anymore).
Weak points:
1¦ A single Large TII shield booster + amplifier is nearly as good.
2¦ Large TII + gistii small + amplifier is better.
3¦ Can't travel at all because of the slow cap recharge.
4¦ 10 out of 11 mid and low slots are devoted to tanking.
5¦ Weaknesses against different damage types (passive recharge is even worse if an extender or recharger is taken out for a second hardener), and no invulberabilty fied II possible because cap can't sustain it.
6¦ No speed booster, ever, because of the crap cap recharge.
7¦ No sensor booster or scrambler or webber/painter to deal with the missile weaknesses against small targets.
8¦ Low damage output because of lack of damage mods (cruise already suck enough).
I'll give it a try shortly in some lvl 4 missions, because raw figures are one thing, actual combat experience is another.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.08.22 22:27:00 -
[302]
Edited by: Pottsey on 22/08/2005 22:34:43
You can fix some of those problems by swapping the shield relays to PDS T2 modules. Now swap that Kinetic active hardener for a T2 Invulnerability field. You know have good all round resistances instead of only boosting Kinetic, enough cap to travel none stop and high hitpoints. You should also be able to run your weapons none stop.
HP regen will drop but with the high hitpoints I find itÆs often a good trade off. You should have the same amount of base hitpoints as an active tank heals in 2 to 3 minuets. As long as CPU is ok due to the extra powergrid from the PDS modules you might even be able to swap the shield recharge module for another large shield extender.
This should be enough to do level 4 missions as other passive tankers use the Raven to solo missions. You could even swap the shield recharger for an afterburner or target painter or something instead of another shield extender. You donÆt have to use every single slot just for passive tanking modules.
ô2¦ Large TII + gistii small + amplifier is better.ö
If your going compare an active tank with expensive named modules to a passive tank at least use decent expensive named modules for the passive tank. I donÆt think its fair to say look my active tank with this really expensive semi rare module beats your passive tank with common cheap modules.
Please compare T2 to T2 or the rare stuff to the rare stuff.
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Shaemell Buttleson
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Posted - 2005.08.22 23:09:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôalltough it was the only item that used cap it drained it in a matter of minutes as the 5 shield relays seriously nerf the cap regen.ö
Try swapping out some of the relays for PDS modules until you get enough cap to run the modules you want.
I have since done as pottsey suggested and the cap does indeed hold now.
Since I first tried the passive tanked raven for level 4's I am having alot of trouble now tanking the named commander in the Angel vengeance without an EM hardener as well. With the EM shield hardener I can tank 1 seraphim all day and go afk with it if I wanted to. However the Duo of Death mission with 2 seraphim is nasty and A warp-out is needed or you are into armour or possibly worse.
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Calian
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Posted - 2005.08.23 04:09:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Pottsey
ô2¦ Large TII + gistii small + amplifier is better.ö
If your going compare an active tank with expensive named modules to a passive tank at least use decent expensive named modules for the passive tank. I donÆt think its fair to say look my active tank with this really expensive semi rare module beats your passive tank with common cheap modules.
Please compare T2 to T2 or the rare stuff to the rare stuff.
Is there even named versions for most of the passive tanking stuff? If there isn't, then yes you can compare active tanking with rare modules to passive tanking with T1, since this isn't about theories, this is about what you can actually do in the game, and if the best passive tanking modules don't have the modules available to it to match the best active tank, then active tanking is better in that sense, for right now at this moment, which is all that matters anyway, that's the bottom line.
Correct me if I'm wrong about there not being named modules for passive tanking though....
and this is the thread that wouldn't die....
*tries to stab a stake into the thread's heart* omg, I can't overcome it's natural shield regen... no!!!!!! Argh, my NOS is ineffective too... DAMN YOU POTTSEY! DAMN YOU
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I hate everyone, except you. |
James McGowen
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Posted - 2005.08.23 05:43:00 -
[305]
Edited by: James McGowen on 23/08/2005 06:14:29
I just had a wierd idea: passive tank a Cerburus. I have caldari crusier 5 but never bought a Cerburus because I never thought of anything really exceptional that I could do with it. Maybe it can passive tank? I don't have the ship, but some sketchy math suggests that these setups might fit:
5x arbi heavies 1x empty or small thingbob
1x t2 large extender
1x t2 em ward
3x t2 shield rechargers
4x t2 pdu
or
5x arbies 1x ?
1x t2 large extender
1x t2 medium extender
1x t2 em hardner
2x t2 rechargers
4x pdu 2
(55/60/70/80 resists)
Or even switch out more rechargers for active hardners/invuln field (if it stil has cpu/cap for invuln) to get even insaner resists.
I think these setups get between 5000? (large extender) and 6300? (large + medium) shield with skills, and recharge times between 300-350 on the first setup and 375-425 on the second but my math kinda sucks, I just sorta fudged lvl 4 skills, max skills might be significantly better (or worse, as I said, my math kinda sucks).
Anyhow, thats a semi decent 30-45 recharge/second at peak if i did my math right, but resistances averaging 65% ish across the board makes it alot better I'd imagine. I believe there'd still be cpu/grid left over, but not too much (50-70 each maybe?). You should be able to switch a pdu or two for shield relays, but I didn't know if that would help or hurt overall, I imagine it might bump up the hp/s. If you switch 2 pdu out for relay, that might get hp/s up to 55-65, although your cap would suffer-- you'd only really use it when warping though. Heck, you could swich all 4 out, at the risk of taking away ~20% of your total shields, it might help over all i dunno. The extra grid and cpu might even let you fit a mid nos or something.
Disclaimer: I didn't have the ship, much less the modules to test it with however, so if im wrong don't lynch me. I just opened up wordpad and the calculator and started banging away. If you do have the ship and are able to confirm/deny this it'd be great, it sounds like an interesting setup, although not exactly uber tank. Someone should really check the total shields/shield recharge math, but I am relativly sure it fits on the ship with decent fitting skills. I just wanted to see if i could convince myself to buy a cerburus, i've had the skills for over a month.
----------------------------------------
"To err is human"
To really foul up requires a computer. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.08.23 08:06:00 -
[306]
ô! Is there even named versions for most of the passive tanking stuff?ö
Not most of the stuff but some of it. There are some great Invulnerability Fields that give 37 to 50% to all resistances. Then there are shield extenders like the Luther Veron's which give more then a T2 large extender. ThatÆs about it as far s I know. The rest of the named modules are not wroth talking about as all they do are lower or get rid of fitting requirements. Named relays have 0 powergrid usage.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.23 08:10:00 -
[307]
pottsey whats the passive recharge on this setup
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.08.23 08:26:00 -
[308]
44 peak or 38 average.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.23 08:27:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Pottsey
44 peak or 38 average.
okay so with two gist a-types going its ~101 shields/sec at best.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.08.23 08:28:00 -
[310]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 23/08/2005 08:28:22
Originally by: Jim Raynor
whats the passive recharge on this setup
8973 / 509 * 2.4 = 42.3 hp/s. Let's say 42 hp.
Assuming that the active hardener is an EM hardener, the ship can tank 84 raw dps or more with its passive recharge (the damage output of a "gank-punisher").
However, the main advantage of the passive tank with extender is the raw hp.
The raw damage that the ship can tank is above 8973 * 2 = 17946 hp, assuming em damage only.
Example:
Facing the maxed out gankageddon: 1100 dps, damage=50% em, 50% thermal (simplification).
after resistance: 550 * 0.5 em + 550 * (1 - 0.8) = 550 * 0.7 = 385 dps after resistance.
not accounting shield recharge: no shield in 23 seconds.
shield recharge during those 23 seconds would be 42 * 23 = 980 hp, giving you 3 extra seconds of shield.
This is not the right equation, just a quick estimation.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.23 08:33:00 -
[311]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 23/08/2005 08:28:22
Originally by: Jim Raynor
whats the passive recharge on this setup
8973 / 509 * 2.4 = 42.3 hp/s. Let's say 42 hp.
Assuming that the active hardener is an EM hardener, the ship can tank 84 raw dps or more with its passive recharge (the damage output of a "gank-punisher").
However, the main advantage of the passive tank with extender is the raw hp.
The raw damage that the ship can tank is above 8973 * 2 = 17946 hp, assuming em damage only.
Example:
Facing the maxed out gankageddon: 1100 dps, damage=50% em, 50% thermal (simplification).
after resistance: 550 * 0.5 em + 550 * (1 - 0.8) = 550 * 0.7 = 385 dps after resistance.
not accounting shield recharge: no shield in 23 seconds.
shield recharge during those 23 seconds would be 42 * 23 = 980 hp, giving you 3 extra seconds of shield.
This is not the right equation, just a quick estimation.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
so in other words it would get owned, that setup cant kill anything, i wish large extenders were more like 1600mm plates ;/
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.08.23 08:34:00 -
[312]
Edited by: Pottsey on 23/08/2005 08:36:20
ôAssuming that the active hardener is an EM hardener, the ship can tank 84 raw dps or more with its passive recharge (the damage output of a "gank-punisher").ö
ItÆs a hybrid ship so 101 hitpoints without taking into account resistance. Also of that was my ship I wouldnÆt use an EM hardner but a Invul field T2 but I could be wrong. It looks like he has the cap for a Inv field.
base Thermal is also not 50% but 80% and with a field 87%
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Naughty Boy
|
Posted - 2005.08.23 08:41:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Pottsey
ItÆs a hybrid ship so 101 hitpoints without taking into account resistance. Also of that was my ship I wouldnÆt use an EM hardner but a Invul field T2 but I could be wrong. It looks like he has the cap for a Inv field.
I think that there is no better setup, as the second gisti doesn't suffer from any stacking penalty and gives more than a shield amp. The em (supposed t1 in my calculation) is pretty much needed as there is a hole in the shield resistance.
And, the example was extreme, a blasterthron would struggle much more than the 'geddon to go through the shields.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.08.23 08:51:00 -
[314]
ôThe em (supposed t1 in my calculation) is pretty much needed as there is a hole in the shield resistance.
And, the example was extreme, a blasterthron would struggle much more than the 'geddon to go through the shields.ö
I edited my last post as you responded so you might have missed what I said. You knocked down the Thermal resistance from 80% to 50% thatÆs a massive loss and 30% resistance has a big impact on how much damage that gank ship does. You also did a maxed out T2 gank ship, then used T1 modules on the tank ship. T2 hardeners would have a big impact.
You also halved the HP regen down to 42 when the real HP regen is 101.
Redo you math with the correct HP regen and resistance with T1 modules or T2 and the ship will last longer then 23 seconds. If you have time try the math with a T2 Invul field giving 30% to all resistance over a EM hardener.
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Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.08.23 09:08:00 -
[315]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 23/08/2005 09:09:17
Here you go:
average recharge/second = 101 raw hp.
Assuming that the active hardener is a t2 active EM hardener (55%, 10% more than t1), the ship can tank 101 / (1 - 0.55) = 224 raw dps or more with its hybrid recharge. Were the gank-taranis doing em damage only (weakest resist), for illustration only, the hybrid recharge would tank it. The ship can also actively tank a vagabond (assuming a non maxed out pilot, not fully loaded with t2 gyro - and 220mm AC loaded with emp ammo).
As you can see, the 2 gistii shield boosters do make a little difference.
The raw damage that the ship can tank (should it take it all under a second) is above 8973 / (1 - 0.55) = 19940 hp, assuming em damage only.
Example:
Facing the maxed out gankageddon: 1100 dps, damage = 50% em, 50% thermal (simplification).
after resistance: 550 * (1 - 0.55) em + 550 * (1 - 0.8) = 550 * 0.65 = 357,5 dps after resistance.
not accounting shield recharge: no shield in 25 seconds.
shield recharge during those 25 seconds would be 101 * 23 = 2323 hp, giving you 6 or 7 extra seconds of shield.
Quick estimation too.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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James McGowen
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Posted - 2005.08.23 17:32:00 -
[316]
Edited by: James McGowen on 23/08/2005 17:42:25
The setup I posted with 2 L t2 extenders and full passive on a cerb looks like it might get more shield/sec than the gisti setup, but its cap would be absolutly fubar and it'd have a bit less max shield. As I said in my first post, I don't have the ship so I can't really tell, it might not fit even with hardwire implants (cpu is really tight). When I eventually buy a Cerb I'll try it but I don't have the greatest passive skills to start with .
Oh, that setup is with heavies though, it would probly fit with room to spare useing assaults.
----------------------------------------
"To err is human"
To really foul up requires a computer. |
Xzavier
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Posted - 2005.08.24 09:55:00 -
[317]
Not to make a long thread even longer, but I was really curious to see what us youngins, those who can't fly BS's yet and can't afford cruisers, could get out of passive tanking with frigates. My personal favorite frigate is the Merlin, and with it's 5% shield cap bonus per frigate lvl, I thought it would make and ideal candidate for passive tanking. So, here's what I ended up with:
Mid Slots: 2x Shield Extender I's, Shield Amp I
Low Slots: 2x Shield Power Relays
With Caldari Frigates 4, and both Shield Operation and Management at lvl 3, I get 828 point shields with a 272 second recharge rate, giving a max recharge of 7.61/s. In comparison, a Small Shield Booster I repairs 20 HP's every 2 seconds and with my skills the Merlin's stock shields have a max regen of 2.38/s, giving a combined max recharge rate of 12.38/s. Though the passive tank setup falls quite a bit short of an active setup in terms of max regen rate, it does still have a 2.24/s max cap recharge rate and can fire 2x 150mm rails with AM ammo indefinitely. It does suffer from low resistances due to fitting restrictions though, but it is nice not having to worry about cap issues. Every active tank setup I've tried so far, both shield and armor, has had cap issues.
With a little more skill, I could replace the amp with another extender, giving it 1035 shields and a max recharge of 9.51/s, but with no resistance mods at all. Anyway, while passive tanking might not be very effective with frigates, it is a very interesting concept and has been a lot of fun to play around with. Awesome thread, kudos Pottsey
Cadet Xzavier(Mining & Transport) - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
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ic35t0rm
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Posted - 2005.08.24 11:44:00 -
[318]
yeah i tried passive tanking my dom at the moment i cant use shield rechargers
so i just filled the mid slots with large extanders and the lows with shield relays
to see what the raw rep/s was i got a total of 85/s
to test it i had some corp mates one in a caracal using heavy missiles at first the sheild started to drop untill it dropped to around 85-90% of max and wouldnt go any lower
so then he tried a bc with heavy missiles and 250's it stopped dropping at 75%
we also tried a rax but i dont count it as he wasnt using a blaster rax setup with heavies so void it
but it was hilarious i was sitting there for a total of at least an hour being shot (the poorly setup rax as he just used what he had lying around) had gotten the sheild to 50% but it took along time
if they had all attacked me at once i could have easily killed them all long b4 they even would get close to getting through my sheild this was with no resistence setups and no cap use
also when they stopped shooting the sheild was fully repping itself comically fast
i cant wait to see what i can push it too with better skills and by adding resitence to find the peak performance lvl
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Mandos Iluvitar
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Posted - 2005.08.25 14:47:00 -
[319]
Edited by: Mandos Iluvitar on 25/08/2005 14:49:00
Originally by: Xzavier
Not to make a long thread even longer, but I was really curious to see what us youngins, those who can't fly BS's yet and can't afford cruisers, could get out of passive tanking with frigates.
I asked the same question a few pages back (page 6 I think) and a few months ago to boot. I personally didn't find anything satisfying in the passive tanking department that worked for frigs. Even the destroyers were lacking in potential for passive shield tanking. Once I got my Thorax cruiser though... all was good. I've gone PvE rat hunting in 0.0 quite succesfully and even managed to go toe to toe with an NPC battleship and walk away smileing. (although... it took alot of patience, switching tactics several times, and more ammo than I care to admit. But the 750K bounty was worth every minute of it)
My advice is simply this... patience. In less time than you think, you'll have the skills and money to get yourself a cruiser and at that point you'll find passive shield tanking has a glorious future in your PvE adventures (I don't do PvP... yet. So, I can't vouch for that side of the house.)
Best of luck in the patience department, best of luck in EVE, and welcome aboard to the most addicting game I've ever played.
Edit: Damn computer never remembers who I am... Mandos = Namo Iluvitar
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Aliksr
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Posted - 2005.08.30 19:34:00 -
[320]
I made a spreadsheet to help calculate resistances with stacking hardeners and to test out various setups.
HardeningCalc.xls by Aliksr
pottsey i'd love to know if my math is right and if this is useful
Features
- calculates survival time for any given DPS so you can compare fittings
- calculations for hardeners, plates/extenders, shield recharge mods, booster/repper, boost amps, implants. stacking penalty where applicable
- can add in gang effects on resistances (seige warfare spec V, squad command V and a mindlink gives 22.5% to all resists)
- allows for logistics shield transfer
great tool for comparing passive setups to active
for example it seems to me that the real midslot issue is extenders vs hardeners. it only makes sense to fit shield recharge units with unhardened sheilds (they boost regen/s but not dps soakage) and the dps you can soak unhardened is pathetic ie:
(1/2 kin, 1/2 therm damage)
(calcs with T2 sheild relays cause i forgot they're unreleased)
(sheild skills 5/5, both 5% shield implants)
dominix with 3x large T2 extender, 7x T2 sheild relay, 2x recharge
-> regen/s of 85 at optimal
-> 121 dps at optimal 30% shields
dom with T1 relays (useless for cross-comparison but useful for math-checking)
-> regen of 57/s at optimal
-> 82 dps at optimal
scorpion with 8x large extender II, 4x shield relay
-> 352 dps (tested for sheild rechargers, extenders always better, can fit 8 if nothing in high slots)
scorpion with 5x hardeners, 3x extender, 4x relay)
-> 667 dps (tested for optimal balance of hardeners/extenders)
cerberus with 1 L T2 extender, 4 hardener, 4 relay
-> 712 dps
drop a relay for an rcu to fit 2 extenders/3 hardeners
-> 705 dps (would rather have this because you take one heavy shot that drops you below optimal and you may not have time to warp out)
(ps: i assume stacking penalty applies to effects, not mods, so the recharge effect of relays and rechargers is treated the same, not sure if this is correct)
as a point of interest a cerberus, basilik and ferox with max skills fitting hardeners, sheild transfers and seige warfare mods respectively gives the cerb 96/96 resists in kin/therm and can soak more than 8400dps!!
edit: for two more comparisons
Scorp with T1 relays, 2x extender, 6x hardener
-> regen/s of 32
-> 263 dps
Scorp with 8x extender, 4x t1 relay
-> regen/s of 82 (optimal regen, not even one T2 recharger raises it)
-> 109 dps
do extenders have a stacking penalty i'm missing or something?
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Jacob Majestic
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Posted - 2005.08.30 19:40:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Aliksr
do extenders have a stacking penalty i'm missing or something?
No, no stacking penalty.
Also, if this is an Aliksr(TM) spreadsheet, it's going to be ridiculously powerful but impossible to figure out
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.30 19:43:00 -
[322]
nice job
and no stacking penalty on extenders
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Aliksr
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Posted - 2005.08.30 23:23:00 -
[323]
haha no i think the spreadsheet is pretty easy to use if you're familiar with how things are calculated. Otherwise you might not know what numbers are being asked for.
The reason i asked about extenders stacking is that i can't replicate pottsey's advice in the OP to reach a balance between extenders and rechargers in the mids that optimises shield regen per second. Even with T1 large extenders and T2 rechargers the spreadsheet shows that extenders are always better than rechargers. The other possible mistake i identified is that rechargers and relays stack separately. As it is three rechargers add only 6.7% to sheild regen because of the huge stacking penalty on the 8th to 10th modules. If stacking is separate they would add 31%
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kestrelfear
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Posted - 2005.08.30 23:38:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Aliksr
The other possible mistake i identified is that rechargers and relays stack separately. As it is three rechargers add only 6.7% to sheild regen because of the huge stacking penalty on the 8th to 10th modules. If stacking is separate they would add 31%
afaik, shield rechargers (and relays) don't have a stacking penalty. If you are applying one, perhaps thats the problem? (I dont have excel installed atm so I haven't had a chance to look at your spreadsheet yet.)
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Aliksr
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Posted - 2005.08.31 02:10:00 -
[325]
Edited by: Aliksr on 31/08/2005 02:11:18
Ok you're right there's diminishing returns but no stacking penalty. Fitting 7 relays and then 3 T2 rechargers now shows as an additional 8.1% reduction in sheild recharge relative to the original level where before it was ~6%.
The spreadsheet still has potential issues such as applying module effects after skills but the stacking of recharge modules has been eliminated and the sheet re-uploaded.
The sheet now correctly calculates the optimal mix of T2 rechargers and T1 large extenders to be 2 and 3. With T2 large extenders (not released at the time of the OP) regen per second is best with 1 and 4.
Yay!
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kestrelfear
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Posted - 2005.08.31 04:52:00 -
[326]
Ok, finally managed to get a copy of excel installed and had a quick look at the sheet. Looks nice so far, though I haven't had time to check out all of its features yet.
Just one thing I noticed. Your calculation for hp doesnt stack skills onto extenders as it should.
f.ex ferox w/ 2500hp + shield management 3 + t2 large extender
(2500+2100)*1.15 = 5290hp (matches ingame)
Your calc gives me 2500*1.15+2100 = 4975hp.
You might also want to include a section for modules that give shield hp in % (I'm thinking pdu's here). Note these also stack onto extenders the same way as skills do.
Other than that, it seems to be calculating accurately, but as I said I haven't had more than a few mins to play with it.
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Aliksr
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Posted - 2005.08.31 16:10:00 -
[327]
Ok so skills after extenders not before. Does this also apply to armor plates vis hull upgrades? And do implants that buff sheild capacity or armor hitpoints also give that bonus to extenders/plates? I'll have to check those out.
Anyways it's reuploaded assuming yes and yes.
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Namo Iluvatar
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Posted - 2005.08.31 20:49:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Aliksr
The reason i asked about extenders stacking is that i can't replicate pottsey's advice in the OP to reach a balance between extenders and rechargers in the mids that optimises shield regen per second.
If I understand what your asking... (deep breath)
Prior to cold war, shield extenders did not give nearly as much of a boost to shield capacity. Now it takes a larger shield capacity before the rechargers give the same amount of boost that post patch extenders deliver. (see chart near the end)
Prior to cold war, a non-named large shield extender gave you 1,000 hp while post patch it gives 1,500 hp. if you have a ship that is exceeding the 10,000 hp mark, that 1,000 hp will give you slightly less than a 10% increase (depends on how much over 10k you are). Compare that to the non-named recharger which gives you a 10% reduction in recharge time. The recharger will win on being the better component to install.
With the same setup exceeding 10,000 hitpoints, the 1,500 hp extender still gives you more than a 10% boost, and typically upwards of 14% while the recharger will still be limited to 10%. Even the tech 2 recharger has a hard time compareing as it only gives a 15% reduction in recharge time.
For example:
10,000 hp and 200 sec recharge time with one mid slot open.
assuming power is available for the extender, pre patch gives 11,000 hp
=> 137.5 hp/sec @ 30%
change that to a recharger to get a 180 sec recharge time
=> 138.9 hp/sec @ 30%
pre cold war, the recharger is the better option for that last slot.
now post patch, apply the same extender with 1,500 hp to get 11,500 hp
=> 143.8 hp/sec @ 30%
cold war did not change the rechargers, so they stay at 138.9 hp/sec
given that, using non-named components, it's better to use the extender over the recharger (comparing apples to apples).
and just for reference, to best the post patch non-named extender takes a tech 2 recharger giving a 170 sec recharge time
=> 147 hp/sec @ 30%
However, if you go with a post patched named extender, you easily beat the tech 2 recharger.
so pre patch, it was a better decision to fill that last remaining slot with a recharger while post patch it's better to replace it with an extender. (assuming your shields were near the 10K mark)
In oder for your ship to benifit from using rechargers instead of an extender would require that your shield hitpoints are aproaching if not exceeding the 15,000 mark. The above example assumed your shield hitpoints magically stayed at 10k after the patch, it's unrealistic, but it gets the point across.
Another way to look at it, if you have a shield recharger that gives a 10% or 15% reduction in recharger time, it would require the equivilant shield extenders if you were to replace it with an extender
Shield........10% rechargers........15% rechargers
Hitpoints....equiv extender hp....equiv extender hp
5,000................555......................882
7,500................833....................1,324
10,000............1,111...................1,764
12,500............1,389...................2,206
15,000............1,667...................2,647
17,500............1,944...................3,088
as is obvious, the bigger the shield hitpoints the more extender you need. (duh).
in case you are curious on the math for the above examples...
equiv extender = [HP/(1 - recharge %)] - HP
you could do the reverse for the extenders to get...
eqiv recharge = 1 - [HP/(HP + extender HP)]
Since the cold war patch the only reason I bother to look at rechargers is when I have a lot of mid slots and I cannot afford to put any extenders on due to lack of power grid support. Even then, I tend to look at resistance amps first. There are people out there who can get their shields above the values that make rechargers more benificial than the extender. I'm not one of them... yet.
Hopefully this isn't too confusing.
*** All skill is in vain when an angel spits in the flintlock of your musket. *** |
Aliksr
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Posted - 2005.09.01 01:30:00 -
[329]
It turns out that changing it so skills and implants are applied to extenders as well as bases shield HP has a massive effect, and that effect is to make all the modules fairly balanced.
Example on Dominix (guristas/sansha kin/therm damage because the only good way to passive tank blood/serpentis em/therm damage is with minmatar HACs/Assaults)
Dom with 5x T2 L extender, 7x T1 relay
-> 154/s passive regen
-> 220 dps maximum tolerance
Dom with 1 T1 therm amp, 4x t2 L extender, 7x relay
(optimal amp/extender balance)
-> 131/s regen
-> 230 dps
Add a recharger to the above
-> 223 dps
Dom with 2 kin, 3 therm amp, 7x relay
-> 38/s regen
-> 119 dps
AND if somehow you had the cap to run 5x T1 hardeners
-> 216 dps
Optimal Scorp Passive Tank (with 5/5 skills, both 5% implants)
4x relay
4x T2 Large extender
1x therm amp
1x kin amp
2x T2 recharger (that's right!)
-> 100/s passive regen
-> 198 dps max
Conclusion: with extenders so massively buffed by the last patch it never makes sense, by my calcs, to fit even T2 recharges on a dominix passive tank. The scorpion however, with more midslots, is capable of reaching the point where extenders add less regen than rechargers.
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Aliksr
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Posted - 2005.09.01 01:48:00 -
[330]
The other question is are HACs better than battleships at passive tanking. The answer to this question is they are at least twice as good and can soak nearly BS-level damage.
same assumptions as above
Cerberus
1x kin amp
1x therm amp
2x L T2 extender (840 vs 793 grid => need sheild upgrades II)
1x sheild recharger (better than a med T2 extender by a hair)
4x relay
->74/s passive regen
-> 441 dps maximum
-> 7385 sheild HP
that's not gank-level BS damage but it's more than any t1 cruiser can dish. too bad that dps drops to less than 80 if it's em. so this would be npc-only and cerb sucks at npc-ing
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.09.03 14:57:00 -
[331]
ôpottsey i'd love to know if my math is right and if this is usefulö
I have been a bit busy so I only taken a glance at it but it looks very useful. I edited it into my 2nd post so hopefully people can find and use it. I also edited in a few other notes like the code war shield extender change. For some reason I cannot edit my first post without losing half the text. I guess itÆs over the 4000 limit.
Thanks for the spreadsheet, hopefully I get time to take a detailed look at it soon. It might help me choose between Dread Invulnerability fields and PDS modules or shield relays and passive hardeners.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Meikel
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Posted - 2005.09.04 19:29:00 -
[332]
Hi,thanks very much for your informative guide!
How does Eve handle percentage stackables? If I have 2 shield rechargers does it do shield_recharge*0.8, or shield_recharge*0.9, but twice? I've made games before which has items/skills that modify the User's data, and I used the first method (one variable that controls each modifier, all items modify that one variable) - but I'd like to check!
Many Thanks,
Mr Meikel
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Ayane Snow
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Posted - 2005.09.04 20:38:00 -
[333]
Aliksr, is it possible to use your guide for armour tanking?
I dont see how, without having a capacitor section :/
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.09.04 20:40:00 -
[334]
pottsey whats the best passive ferox in your opinion?
i'd kinda like to be using rails, and have 1-2 dmg mod in low, and a tracking computer in a med if possible
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kestrelfear
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Posted - 2005.09.04 20:44:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Meikel
Hi,thanks very much for your informative guide!
How does Eve handle percentage stackables? If I have 2 shield rechargers does it do shield_recharge*0.8, or shield_recharge*0.9, but twice? I've made games before which has items/skills that modify the User's data, and I used the first method (one variable that controls each modifier, all items modify that one variable) - but I'd like to check!
Many Thanks,
Mr Meikel
the modules are stacked on top of each other, ie. sh_recharge*0.9^2 for 2 10% mods.
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Aliksr
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Posted - 2005.09.05 00:06:00 -
[336]
Edited by: Aliksr on 05/09/2005 00:06:53
Originally by: Ayane Snow
Aliksr, is it possible to use your guide for armour tanking?
I dont see how, without having a capacitor section :/
the spreadsheet should work for armor tanking, but you're on your own to calculate cap use and grid limits.
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Tai Lin
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Posted - 2005.09.23 00:52:00 -
[337]
I was calculating a bid whit passice tanking on my raven and got something whit 20216 shields and 1026 secs to recharge (lv 4 skills no implants) which would be 19.6shields/s (49.1 at 30% shields)
i was bid disapointed about the fact it would be only 49 (sure this is still boostable) and i was very surprised how pottseys domi can get 21k shields and 80 reg. does the lv 5 skills+ the implants make that massive difference or my math is just wrong?
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Tai Lin
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Posted - 2005.09.23 14:23:00 -
[338]
by the way, when i would try to fit 6 cms I 2 invul fields II 4 extender II and 5 pdsu II i would run out of cpu power. did i missed a - cpu need skill for the extender? i am using
Electronics lv 4 (20% to Cpu)
Weapon Upgrades lv 4 (-20% Cpu need of Turrets,Bays, Sbs)
Energy Grid Upgrades lv 4 (-20% Cpu need of Pds, cap batteries)
Shield Upgrades lv 4 (-20% Grid need of Shield Upgrades)
for calculating
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Dimitri Forgroth
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Posted - 2005.09.23 17:32:00 -
[339]
Originally by: HippoKing
pottsey whats the best passive ferox in your opinion?
i'd kinda like to be using rails, and have 1-2 dmg mod in low, and a tracking computer in a med if possible
Not passive, but a hybrid:
2 large extender, med booster, em + thermal hardeners
4 power diagnostics
Can fit 5 launchers and 2 other, CPU becomes a real limiter though. Booster will run nearly forever.
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Ahhh yes the ECM Apoc, very deadly.
Oh wait... wtf...
DPS Sheet |
Kelhund
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:55:00 -
[340]
*bump* WHERES THE STICKY?! Donate one to this thread pls :D
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Mesiah Scuro
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:56:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Kelhund
*bump* WHERES THE STICKY?! Donate one to this thread pls :D
Linkage.
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Nero Scuro's alt, until thursday Saturday when I can pay my damn credit card bill. (I hate Natwest) |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.09.25 14:58:00 -
[342]
ôI was calculating a bid whit passice tanking on my raven and got something whit 20216 shields and 1026 secs to recharge (lv 4 skills no implants) which would be 19.6shields/s (49.1 at 30% shields)
i was bid disapointed about the fact it would be only 49 (sure this is still boostable) and i was very surprised how pottseys domi can get 21k shields and 80 reg. does the lv 5 skills+ the implants make that massive difference or my math is just wrong?ö
My record on the Domi is 156 HP regen with T1 shield relays but until I get T2 shield relays I am sticking to my mid HP regen PDS setup which is 22k shields and 72 HP regen solo (both numbers rounded). It only hits 80HP regen when I am in a group and my shield cap goes up to 24k ish.
The other reason the Domi does so well over a Raven is the Domi has a lot more low and total slots. For passive tanking the low slots are better then mid slots in a lot of ways.
The HardeningCalc.xls file by Aliksr which can be found at the start of this tread in my second post should help you work out what you will get with lvl 5 skills and implants so you can see if its worth takeing those skills to lvl 5.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Mo Steel
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Posted - 2005.10.29 03:29:00 -
[343]
My primary attempts at passive shield tanking have been very promising in my opinion. Running the following setup:
Merlin
Hi-Slots
2x 125mm Railgun I
2x Standard Missile Launcher I
Mid-Slots
2x Small Shield Extender I
[u]Low-Slots[/i]
2x Shield Power Relay I
I was able to clear out a 3/10 Rogue Drone Asteroid Infestation complex on my own, without them ever taking me below 40% shields. I'm frankly surprised that I can run it in a tech 1 frig with all unnamed tech 1 mods.
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Kelhund
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Posted - 2005.10.29 06:42:00 -
[344]
Hmmm if the Merlin works that good passive, wonder what a Ferox could do hehe Anyone have ideas for a passive tank along those lines?
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Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.10.29 06:51:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Kelhund
Hmmm if the Merlin works that good passive, wonder what a Ferox could do hehe Anyone have ideas for a passive tank along those lines?
Hum you could try large shield extender + shield recharger + either specific passive/active hardeners or invulni field (depending on your cap) + mix of pdus and shield relays in low.
Quote:
dont fly what you cant afford to lose, always have it insured, make sure you can replace it before you take it into 0.0 or any potentially kaboomish situations.
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Kldraina
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Posted - 2005.10.29 07:52:00 -
[346]
Edited by: Kldraina on 29/10/2005 07:56:23
Originally by: Kelhund
Hmmm if the Merlin works that good passive, wonder what a Ferox could do hehe Anyone have ideas for a passive tank along those lines?
My Ferox:
11420hp
340 second recharge (83hp/sec max regen)
Resists: 50%EM, 68%Exp, 52%Kin, 60%Therm
Only 5 Assault launchers and 5 medium drones for offense though. :/
I use 3 Large Shield extender IIs, 2 Resistance Amplifiers IIs, 1 PDU II, 3 Shield Power Relays. It's a very tight fit.
I would recommend using only 2 Large shield extenders, and Hardeners instead of Amplifiers. Replace Shield Power Relays with PDUs as needed to run the hardeners. |
Talos Darkhart
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Posted - 2005.10.29 15:35:00 -
[347]
I use a passive tank on a ferox when using gang assist mods and a couple of small rails to take out scramblers. Will write down my setup when i double check it, but it was quite capable of tanking any battleship long enought to warp away. and I tanked a corpmates tempest for about 6min due to it,s low rof. But obviously this ship had allmost no offensive capability and I was getting good bonuses from gang and gang assist mods.
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Banirr
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Posted - 2005.11.04 10:03:00 -
[348]
My Ferox setup for lvl3 mission:
HS: 3* heavy launcher/2* Assault launcher/2* 150mm Railgun
MS: 2* Large Shield Extender t2/1 AB 10MN/1* Passive Hardener/1* active hardener
LS: 3* PDU t2/1* Shield Power Relay
8900K shield 45 shield/s recharge. not optimal but enough to make all lvl3 mission without warp out.
I think a better fit is :
HS: 3* heavy launcher/2* Assault launcher/2* 150mm Railgun
MS: 2* Large Shield Extender t2/1* Passive Hardener/1* active hardener/1 shield recharger t2
LS: 1* PDU t2/3* Shield Power Relay
8090K shield recharge=270s shield/sec=74.90
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Marcus Alkhaar
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Posted - 2005.11.04 16:33:00 -
[349]
Hi, I just thought of making a Passive Eagle setup.
In the Kali Patch the shield boost bonus will be replaced with a resistance bonus.
I calculated this setup with Max Skills, but it can be done with lvl 4 Advanced weapon upgrades too!
Hac Res + Res Bonus + Shield = we got a new Passive shield tank
547.5 CPU / 493 CPU Used
1601.35 PG / 1582.10 PG Used
------------------------------------------
4x Heavy Neutron Blaster II 123/849.6
2x Small "Knave" I Energy Drain 30/16
------------------------------------------
2x Large Shield Extender II 230/660
1x 'Anointed' I EM Ward Reinforcement 32/1
1x 10MN Afterburner I 25/50 or Shield Recharger II or 20km scrambler
1x x5 Prototype I Engine Enervator 21/1
------------------------------------------
4x Shield Power Relay II 32/0
62.5 EM / 70 EXP / 77.5 Kin / 85 Therm
or something likely..... do the math yourself
190-195 DPS
This is Still Theory, *The Shield Power Relay II is not ingame yet*
the Setup is supposed for being PvP
Please help me to make a Passive Shield Tank on this thing..... Thank you
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WIngman4508
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Posted - 2005.11.06 07:30:00 -
[350]
Ferox Passive Test
**note: this is not necesarily meant to be useful but more to see what it can do**
Hi-
what ever you can/want to fit
Med-
3x Lg sheild extender I's
1x med F-S9 Regolith extender
1x M51 Iterative sheild regenerator
low-
3x Power Diagnostic System
1x type D shield power relay
Sheild hp= 10420
Sheild regen.= 417sec
with the 2.5x multiplier in effect:
62hp/sec
187hp/3sec
249hp/4sec (large T2 booster=240hp/4sec)
312hp/5sec
(all numbers have been rounded down to nearest whole)
this setup leaves very little in the way of offensive capabilities and relies on the ferox's natural resists instead of hardeners
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OutLaW StarWind
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Posted - 2005.11.06 11:52:00 -
[351]
bump! STICKY PLEASE!!!!!
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Knoppaz
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Posted - 2005.11.17 10:25:00 -
[352]
I got an Arbitrator yesterday and thought I could try a passive setup on it.
Well, I tried it on "Silence the Informant" and could have pulled the whole mission on me without them doing a dent, but it was sooo slow that I nearly fell asleep.
End of story: The passive setup worked great, but the fitting is so tight, that it doesn't leave room for either more speed or more damage (tho the drones alone did work ok, since my drone skills are crap).
___________________
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.11.17 10:53:00 -
[353]
ôEnd of story: The passive setup worked great, but the fitting is so tight, that it doesn't leave room for either more speed or more damage (tho the drones alone did work ok, since my drone skills are crap).ö
You will be pleased to know passive tanking is getting a large boost next patch. Shield extenders will use up far less PG and CPU so no more tight fittings and you can fit the biggest weapons. That and with the 25% hitpoint boost you can fit damage modules and still end up with a similar regen to what you have now.
Previously you might use 2 mid and 1 large extender. Now you can fit 2 large extenders and fit EW in that 3rd slot.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Knoppaz
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Posted - 2005.11.17 11:06:00 -
[354]
Edited by: Knoppaz on 17/11/2005 11:27:16
Well, I already used 2 large named extenders
I guess my drone skills will be ok until MK2, so the free slot will go to an AB
Forgot to mention, my shield skills are only 3 and 4 so there is also room for improvement..
___________________
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kebab v2
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Posted - 2005.11.17 11:44:00 -
[355]
how does the increased sig that comes with fitting extenders work out with the passive tank in the next patch, i guess that some setups may end up taking more damge because of this although the new resistance skills and +25% hp is going to be a big help for passive tankers.
"I made this sig while i should of been working" |
Captain Powers
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Posted - 2005.11.25 19:12:00 -
[356]
I am new to the universe of Eve and I have been looking at the numbers with my Ferox for a passive setup. Last night while looking over Caldari ships, I noticed one frigate that might actually passive tank with. Prior to last night, I was always disappointed with the numbers I came up with for Frigates.
This is my first attempt at publishing numbers so I get it wrong, forgive my first attempt.
The Merlin has the ability to add 5% per level of Caldari frig skill. So at Caldari Frig 5, that adds 25% to the total maximum shields hp's. That can add up to make a major difference between not useable and what can be a decent shield regen.
I'm going to assume level 5 skills since you should have them to benefit the most from passive tanking but you can subsitute your own numbers.
Merlin starts out with 300 hp's of shielding. Add in 3 T2 shield extenders ( 210 hp ) for 930 hp's of shields. You could add a fourth but I think a passive hardner or an active hardner might be more benefit.
So for the shields Hp, we'll add 25% for our skill.
930 + 25% = 1162.5
Add in the merlin's 25% bonus for Caldari Frig 5 skill
1162.5 + 25% = 1453.125
I'd like to think we could get T2 shield power relays for the lower 2 slots so....
500 shield regen rate times our 25% skill for shields
500 - 25% = 375
Add in the 2 T2 shield power relays.
375 - 27.5% - 27.5% = 197.11 ( approx ).
1453.125 / 197.11 = 7.372 * 2.4 = 17.69 max shield regen.
That is great then a T2 small shield booster which fits in what I call decent shield regen.
Ok, if you can't get T2 but use T1's
375 - 20% - 20% = 240
1453.125 / 240 = 6.055 * 2.4 = 14.53 for max shield regen.
That is just under a T2 small shield booster per second regen but the T1 allows you improved cap regen rate.
It's a trade off also if you want better resists from the fourth mid slot or even high shield regen by installing a fourth small shield extender. I haven't looked at maybe putting in one T2 shield power relay and maybe using a PDS in the last lower slot...
I was just wanting to make sure my numbers looked correct first. This is based on playing with my Ferox's setup which I'll post later.
That gives a Merlin an effect of running a T2 small booster full time. Looks like the best frig passive setup I could come up with.
Only down side is that in order to obtain this usably regen you have to have level 5 skills. Frigs just don't look as good for passive shield tanking as their bigger brothers. The lack of lower slots limits them. Only with the boost in shield hp's for the Merlin does this work.
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Max FaceLift
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Posted - 2006.01.16 14:37:00 -
[357]
Edited by: Max FaceLift on 16/01/2006 14:40:08
I've been playing around with a passive-tanked Moa, since it now has a shield resists bonus. Here's what I've been running lvl3 missions with:
1x 250mm (antimatter)
3x dual 150mm (iridium)
2x assault launcher
---
10mn ab
3x lg shield extender (upwards of 7.5k shields)
---
3x shield relay (or 2 + 1x PDS)
damage control
This setup allows me to tank most lvl3's quite easily, though the damage output leaves a bit to be desired. Could optionally downgrade the 250mm to a 200mm, freeing up enough grid to swap out a launcher for a nos. Or, 4x150 + 2xheavy, a few options there.
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Fredonan
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Posted - 2006.02.13 19:01:00 -
[358]
I have an awesome Lvl 3 Combat Mission Ferox
5-Limos Heavy Missile Bays
2-150 MM T2 Railguns
4-Large T2 Extenders
1-T2 Kin/Therm Amp
4-Shield Power Relays
I have no difficulties in any lvl 3 mission.
Took a good 10 minutes for my friend's Cerberus to break this tank(Highly Skilled char too), and that was before I fit the 4th extender and had T2 Resist amps.
Currently with my skills the tank is at 13,253.7 Shields with a recharge time of 327 Seconds.
That's over 100hp/s at optimal
In a few days that will dramatically increse as I get the last of my engineering skills to 4.
This setup rocks for PvE, and can tank some 0.0 BS spawns (Haven't had a whole lot of those so I don't know the limits highest so far has been 800K Serpentis)
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Kulam Latar
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Posted - 2006.02.14 22:22:00 -
[359]
I've tried passive tank with my Ferox against Raven. After 10 minutes of friendly PvP my shield was down on 25% and his on 50%.
Hi 5x Arbalest Heavy
Med 4x TII extenders 1x Inv F I
Low 2x Beta Shield Realy 2x Ballistic I (BCU)
Skills BC lvl2
Engineering lvl4
Shield Upgrades lvl4
Tactical Shield Man lvl3
Shield Management lvl3
1.7M SP total
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Shoele Lialos
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Posted - 2006.03.03 15:55:00 -
[360]
A very simple look at the Gallente Cruisers says that the Thorax would be the best at passively tanking with shields, given the abundance of base shield HP's vs the same shield recharge time on all of them.
However, I have a question.
I've been using my second account as a drone carrier and protection ship while mining. Right now she is in an Exequror. I was considering trying a passive setup where I maximize her low and medium slots to get the passive tanking maxed out, and use the high slots for a Medium Remote Armor repair (possibly 2), a tractor beam (for grabbing the rat boxes after the drones finish them off), and maybe a gun (or two, depending on how many repairs I stick on).
I don't intend to load up on T2 items to do this (although if the price is right).
And finally, for the question, is this viable to try with an Exequror, given their slots and bonuses (in some ways I think the Exequror is a better drone boat than a Vexor due to their bonuses), or should I be looking at doing it with a different ship?
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Aqautica
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Posted - 2006.03.03 16:24:00 -
[361]
First off this has been an re-education in maths and a most enjoyale one if that can be so. I notice that most of the thread discusses many ships but the Raven only gets a few mentions; is this because it is not a great tanker either passive or active.
I have a Raven set up as follows:
* 6cm/2NOS
* 1Lif/XlargeC5-L/Amp/T2Ballistic/T2 heat/T2 Invulvn
* 3PDS2s/2BSCs
My CAP is 5903 (recharge566)
Shields approx 9000
Currently Lv3s np Lv4s depending on type problematic as the amp runs down fairly quickly.
Any advice gratefull recevied and thanks for a great read -I learn all the time in this game.
Sorry I am not more erudite re the maths and calculations.
Aqau
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Uncle ISKer
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Posted - 2006.03.07 16:02:00 -
[362]
I am using a passive shield tank on my cyclone.
However I was using 4 shield flux's in low slots as opposed to shield relays.
my current setup is
5x425's,3 assaults
1 ab, 4 large extenders
4 shield flux's
my shield recharge rate is around 45 per sec, I think
However I think The recharge bonus may be better with relays.
Anyone with better setup for a cyclone?
Would love to see some posted. Passive.. that is.
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Calprimus
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Posted - 2006.03.14 13:39:00 -
[363]
Edited by: Calprimus on 14/03/2006 13:40:10
Greetings Pottsey,
I hope you still visiting this post and could help an old EnB fellow.
One thing I still don't fully understand.
And this is the option between PDUs and Shield Power relays in the lows.
I read all the 10 pages on the subject, and several others (my old progen head slightly hurts and I have my eyes crossed....).
I already changed the set up in the middle, from shield boost and amps, to extenders. I was trying to shield tank the Ferox like a Raven......(tho the Raven is still fitted active for npc....)
But in the lows I still keep 2xBCU2 and 2XPDU2.
PDU2
shield recharge rate 0,915%
capacitor recharge rate 0,915%
power grid bonus -5% (a bonus with a minus.....is that means I will have +5% grid?)
shield HP bonus -5% (same as above...)
capacitor bonus -5% (same as above...)
Shield Power Relay2
shield recharge rate 0,725%
capacitor recharge rate 1,355%
power grid bonus -10% (same as above...)
Can you elaborate a bit more on the choice of Shield Power relays despite PDUs?
If you are set up with the follow (mission lv3 only, all relevat skills at 5):
5xHeavy2 + 2x125mm
3xExtend2 + 2xInv2
2xBCU2 + [insert here]
why the shield power relay and not PDUs? One of each? (a bone, please, trowed in this direction.....)
Many thanks in advance
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2006.03.15 11:58:00 -
[364]
ôwhy the shield power relay and not PDUs? One of each? (a bone, please, trowed in this direction.....)ö
Generally speaking the T1 shield relays will add more HP regen then a T2 PDS. But that shield regen comes at the cost of cap regen. So fit as many shield relays as you can then add just enough PDUÆs so your cap doesnÆt run out. On my Domi I use 5 shield relays then 2 PDS so my cap isnÆt a problem.
Sometimes the PDS are better even with less regen due to the extra hitpoints.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Neckbone
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Posted - 2006.03.21 22:41:00 -
[365]
Pottsey, thank you so much for starting this thread, it really guided me to the type of play I like. Since I saw someone asking about a frigate setup, I decided to share my passive shield tank Rifter! At the moment I have Engineering/Shield Operation/Shield Management/Shield Upgrades 4, and Energy Grid Upgrades 2. (I'm still on a trial account, but subscribing when it ends.) Because of this I completely designed it around T1 technology, because I can't afford the named stuff, yet. (I also designed one with the named modules and was pretty impressed.)
Anyway, my current setup:
Rifter
HI (4)
3x 200mm Autocannon I (named will be Light 'Scout' AC)
1x Rocket Launcher I (named will be 'Arbalest')
MED (3)
1x Medium Shield Extender I (named will be S-F9)
2x Small Shield Extender I (named will be S-F9)
LO (3)
3x Shield Power Relay I (no need for named, no improvement)
I can't remember the exact number (at work) but I know it has over 1500 hp, and tops out over 19 hp/sec. Pretty hilarious when you're flying around an Angel Creo-Corp 2/10 complex. At the 5th Tier I just flew right at the boss and fought everything that added at once. Shields hit 35% at the low point. Anyway, I've done three level 2 agent missions now (had to warp out a few times, but beat them) and I'm having a blast!
Having *finally* read the entire thread, I'm going to look into dropping one of the Small Extenders for an Invulnerability Field I. I get 180 hp per small, so I think boosting my resist 25% (I think that's the I's stats) of the 1300 hp that would leave me is going to be better. Not having an afterburner has been an issue in only one fight, against an Angel Webifier (25K bounty, heh) in a level 2 mission. He couldn't kill me, but I couldn't get close enough to kill him with my autocannons. LOL After I reloaded my guns (at 5.4 km out, 4.9 km being my max effective range) I finally had a friend come out in a destroyer, and tanked the guy while he blasted him with artillery and missiles.
Anyway, I can see where the Invulnerability Field I would be much better than another Small Extender, though I'm curious just how long I can keep the field running. Still, I'd sacrifice very little max HP for the field, and gain a crapload of surviveability. I spend all day laughing at the PTS corp people telling me I'll never be able to solo a 2/10 complex in a passive shield Rifter (as I'm cleaning up the 5th Tier stragglers).
I plan to move on to a Rupture, and finally a Tempest. I noticed that a Punisher can fit TWO Medium Extenders on there, reaching 27 hp/sec. Crazy, huh?
Anyway, thanks again for all the information posted here, I love passive shield tanking!
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Neckbone
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Posted - 2006.03.21 23:30:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Captain Powers
Edited by: Captain Powers on 25/11/2005 19:18:34
Edited by: Captain Powers on 25/11/2005 19:17:27
I am new to the universe of Eve and I have been looking at the numbers with my Ferox for a passive setup. Last night while looking over Caldari ships, I noticed one frigate that might actually passive tank with. Prior to last night, I was always disappointed with the numbers I came up with for Frigates.
This is my first attempt at publishing numbers so I get it wrong, forgive my first attempt.
The Merlin has the ability to add 5% per level of Caldari frig skill. So at Caldari Frig 5, that adds 25% to the total maximum shields hp's. That can add up to make a major difference between not useable and what can be a decent shield regen.
I'm going to assume level 5 skills since you should have them to benefit the most from passive tanking but you can subsitute your own numbers.
Merlin starts out with 300 hp's of shielding. Add in 3 T2 shield extenders ( 210 hp ) for 930 hp's of shields. You could add a fourth but I think a passive hardner or an active hardner might be more benefit.
So for the shields Hp, we'll add 25% for our skill.
930 + 25% = 1162.5
Add in the merlin's 25% bonus for Caldari Frig 5 skill
1162.5 + 25% = 1453.125
I'd like to think we could get T2 shield power relays for the lower 2 slots so....
500 shield regen rate times our 25% skill for shields
500 - 25% = 375
Add in the 2 T2 shield power relays.
375 - 27.5% - 27.5% = 197.11 ( approx ).
1453.125 / 197.11 = 7.372 * 2.4 = 17.69 max shield regen.
That is great then a T2 small shield booster which fits in what I call decent shield regen.
Ok, if you can't get T2 but use T1's
375 - 20% - 20% = 240
1453.125 / 240 = 6.055 * 2.4 = 14.53 for max shield regen.
That is just under a T2 small shield booster per second regen but the T1 allows you improved cap regen rate.
It's a trade off also if you want better resists from the fourth mid slot or even higher shield regen by installing a fourth small shield extender. I haven't looked at maybe putting in one T2 shield power relay and maybe using a PDS in the last lower slot...
I was just wanting to make sure my numbers looked correct first. This is based on playing with my Ferox's setup which I'll post later.
That gives a Merlin an effect of running a T2 small booster full time. Looks like the best frig passive setup I could come up with.
Only down side is that in order to obtain this usably regen you have to have level 5 skills. Frigs just don't look as good for passive shield tanking as their bigger brothers. The lack of lower slots limits them. Only with the boost in shield hp's for the Merlin does this work.
But with the upcoming patch, this could shift this frig into a ship with more impressive tankage imho. Watch out when you spot one after rmr is out. That is why I am trying to point this ship out. Let's hope they don't nerf it
Instead of T2 Smalls, look at Mediums. I'm not very familiar with Caldari ships (hell I barely know Minmatar stuff) but the Mediums *do* fit on frigates. 1 named medium (S-F9) is the equivalent of 3 T2 smalls!
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Neckbone
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Posted - 2006.03.22 01:18:00 -
[367]
Triple post FTW.
Just farting around with QuickFit here's what I came up with for a Punisher. I like lasers a lot, and I've been thinking about switching over. Without any change to my skills (outside of picking up Ammar Frigate III), meaning no change to my cap efficiency:
Punisher
HI (4)
3x Dual Modal Pulse Laser I
1x Small Nosferatu I
MED (2)
1x Medium Shield Extender
1x Small Shield Extender
LO (4)
4x Shield Power Relay I
cap[340] cap/s[1] shield/s[19] shieldHP[1275] armorHP[393] speed[262m/s]
Okay so it's laughably slow for a frigate, but the shields and passive regen are astonishing. The guns can fire for 4m 43s before running out of cap, without the NOS, and if NOS is applied they will never go empty. This is with 4 Engineering, 4 Shield Operation, 4 Shield Management, and 4 Shield Upgrades (and 2 Energy Grid Upgrades). That's not shabby, if you ask me, very easy for new player frigate pilots to get.
Incidentally, for frigates & cruisers it really looks to me that Invulnerability Fields (which add 25% to your shieldHP for the first one, basically), and Power Diagnostic Systems (which have so little PG & CPU to work with on smaller ships) are still overshadowed by extenders and SPR's. I think this is because frigs can squeeze medium extenders on, and cruisers can pack on larges. At least for the Minmatar it's pretty easy, as their guns take so little MW & CPU. I'd have like to slap the biggest guns possible on the Punisher, but then the MW won't allow for the medium extender.
Incidentally, if you scrap the Medium for a Small, and bump the Dual Modals up to Medium Pulses, you can still maintain the infinite shooting cycle, and get 735 ShieldHP with 11 shield/s max. Not quite as impressive. It's the Medium that makes it shine. You can slap on a MAPC to get the Medium on there, but then you need a named Co-Processor to get another Small Extender on, ending up at 1275 HP still, but with 13 shield/s. I'm not sure that the gun upgrade is worth 6 shield/s.
But man I wanted to use lasers, I'm gonna have to look at this, now.
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Lefia
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Posted - 2006.03.22 03:54:00 -
[368]
Stupid timeout, I wrote a whole big thing with lots of helpful hints, but my account timed out and I lost it all. Should have transferred it to word after I crossed 150 words. Anyway, I'm going to brevify it for you.
While the punisher setup is novel and interesting I have the following advice if you like lasers and intend to pursue Amarrian ships: Don't shield tank Amarr, it's a bad habit to start and will only lead to ineffective Amarr ship setups if you continue down the path of lasers. They generally have armor bonuses (see punisher), their weapons eat serious cap, and their ships have the fewest mid slots of any race. If you go Amarr, start training for armor tanking.
Be careful of invuln fields on frigates if you don't have good capacitor skills. On a frig it'll impose a 4e/s drain on your cap which leaves a base rifter dry in roughly 2 minutes (probably a little less even). This could be deadly if you need a while to take something out that can hit you.
Best of luck with whatever you do.
Originally by: hired goon
I agree with every point and counter point that has been brought up in this and every other argument ever had.
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Neckbone
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Posted - 2006.03.22 16:59:00 -
[369]
Edited by: Neckbone on 22/03/2006 17:02:16
Originally by: Lefia
Stupid timeout, I wrote a whole big thing with lots of helpful hints, but my account timed out and I lost it all. Should have transferred it to word after I crossed 150 words. Anyway, I'm going to brevify it for you.
While the punisher setup is novel and interesting I have the following advice if you like lasers and intend to pursue Amarrian ships: Don't shield tank Amarr, it's a bad habit to start and will only lead to ineffective Amarr ship setups if you continue down the path of lasers. They generally have armor bonuses (see punisher), their weapons eat serious cap, and their ships have the fewest mid slots of any race. If you go Amarr, start training for armor tanking.
Be careful of invuln fields on frigates if you don't have good capacitor skills. On a frig it'll impose a 4e/s drain on your cap which leaves a base rifter dry in roughly 2 minutes (probably a little less even). This could be deadly if you need a while to take something out that can hit you.
Best of luck with whatever you do.
Thanks for the advice, I did notice the bonuses are really just all wrong for the Punisher, not too mention it's slow. I like Minmatar look, the backstory, and the autocannons I prefer are actually better performers than pulse lasers except for a small pocket of range from 2km to 3km (because of better tracking & falloff), and by less than 2 dps for 3 guns, which the extra rocket launcher offsets. With no cap drain, and nice med/lo slots, I really like minmatar passive shield tanks!
I'm pretty happy with my Rifter at the moment, I've got two setup, one with the 200mm autocannons and 2 small extenders (1500 shields, 19/sec, 336 m/s top speed), and one with 150mm autocannons, 1 small extender, and 1 mn afterburner. It pulls like 1300 shields with 17/sec, and has a top speed of 715 m/s. I call the former the Fat Hamster, and the latter the Greased Hamster. Both are a thrill to fly around in Level 2 agent missions. Taking down an interceptor last night was quite a rush!
Oh, almost forgot about the invuln field, the 25% boost to my lifespan is less than just raw HP, which is passive, so I took a pass on it. I looked at possibly a small shield booster on the fat hamster, which would give me a 10/s boost for 22 sec before I ran out of cap. Could be a nice overdrive shield boost--I might still go that route, but it will take a long time for the cap to regen to use it again.
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Neckbone
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Posted - 2006.03.24 13:50:00 -
[370]
Man, a sticky on this would rock. I just bookmarked it finally.
I'm at a moment of indecision on my Rifter. In my MED slots I have a Med Extender, a Small Extender, and a 1MN AB. I have to have the medium & the AB, the ship sucks without them. The small extender I considered dropping for an Invuln Field but I could only run it for 50 seconds at most (shield relays slaughtered my cap) so I'm passing on it. But I considered just dropping the small for an EM passive resist amp. That would bump my 0% EM resist up to 32.5%, boosting my EM limit severely (up 28%), but lower my base regen by 2.2, thereby lowering my max DPS threshold for other damage (dropping by 14%). Here's my statlines with a small extender in the last MED vs the magnetic scatterer:
Small Extender: 1276 shieldHP / 15.57 shield/s max
DPS thresholds: EM (15.57), EX (38.93), KN (25.95), TH (19.46), AVG (24.98)
Magnetic Scattering Field I: 1096 shieldHP / 13.37 shield/s max
DPS thresholds: EM (19.81), EX (33.43), KN (22.28), TH (16.71), AVG (23.06)
I'm really kind of at a loss for which way I want to go with this. It's an overall loss to my tanking threshold, but a significant jump to my worst damage type. My Thermal threshold dips down to 16.71, but if I average just the EM & TH resists, I end up at 18.26 with the Resist Amp, and 17.515 with the Small Extender.
Not sure what to do, and... BUMP
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Lovayn Lightsbane
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Posted - 2006.03.25 19:21:00 -
[371]
I use a cyclone and I passive tank it.
I currently use 3 shield extenders.. a webber and a mwd/ab and 4 pdu's in the lower.
with my current skills my shields repair about 50/sec
at maximum.
My question is would it be wiser to replace 1 extender for a invul? as the invul gives a 25% reduction in damage recieved. the extra extension does not increase my maximum shields by 25%.
infact it only adds about 13% i think. of course the 25 % damage reduction is at all points in the damage spectrum. not just at peak efficency.
another question. the webber seems to be almost manditory if you actually want to hit fast close range frigates.
Is there a way to buff up tracking enough to allow a 4th extender or perhaps a 2nd invul?
I currently use 220's and 3 heavy launchers and 4 hammerhead drones.
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Clatters
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Posted - 2006.03.27 03:25:00 -
[372]
Originally by: Pottsey
You will be pleased to know passive tanking is getting a large boost next patch. Shield extenders will use up far less PG and CPU so no more tight fittings and you can fit the biggest weapons. That and with the 25% hitpoint boost you can fit damage modules and still end up with a similar regen to what you have now.
Previously you might use 2 mid and 1 large extender. Now you can fit 2 large extenders and fit EW in that 3rd slot.
Where did you see these patch notes, wouldnt mind reading them :)
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Morkato
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Posted - 2006.03.27 06:04:00 -
[373]
The patch he was referring to took place a couple months ago. (I think it was RMR)
Also, you frig pilots looking to passive shield tank,
don't forget about sig radius penalty on extenders
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Brechan Skene
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Posted - 2006.03.27 07:23:00 -
[374]
which implants help in passive tanking?
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2006.03.27 09:56:00 -
[375]
Edited by: Pottsey on 27/03/2006 10:04:50
"which implants help in passive tanking?ö
ôwhich implants help in passive tanking?ö
siege warfare mindlink boosts the HP rate 15% only when in gang.
hardwireing - zainou ' gnome ' kva1000 boosts the HP rate 3%
hardwireing - zainou ' gnome ' kva2000 boosts the HP rate 5%
hardwireing - zainou ' gnome ' kya1000 boosts the recharge rate 3%
hardwireing - zainou ' gnome ' kya2000 boosts the recharge rate 5%
hardwireing - zainou ' gnome ' kua1000 reduces the shield upgrade module PG 3%
hardwireing - zainou ' gnome ' kua2000 reduces the shield upgrade module PG 5%
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Apertotes
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Posted - 2006.03.27 13:10:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Lovayn Lightsbane
I use a cyclone and I passive tank it.
oh no, dont do it man. cyclone only has 2 bonuses, and you are killing one.
if you want to passive tank, get a ferox.
Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve |
Spektral
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Posted - 2006.03.27 15:34:00 -
[377]
Hello Pottsey,
Sorry to be a noodge, but if you could answer me a few questions about a certain ships potential for Passive tanking I would be greatly appreciative (See iskies).
I recognize that you are the acknowledged expert in this field, and your thoroughness means alot to those of us who understand the difficulty of what you and naughty boy do.
Ship
Sleipnir.
Assume that PG and CPU should not be an issue (max fitting skills (AWU3) and 7 220 vulcan tech 2 in hi slots. If you could message me that Datum in game I will pay in iskies for the optimum setup you can come up with with currently available modules tech 2 preferred, faction if they generate a very sizable improvement.
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Brechan Skene
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Posted - 2006.03.27 20:37:00 -
[378]
can you add the 5% shield hp increase implant and then place the 30% shield hp increase module on the ship, without causeing a penalty conflict between the two?
Sorry it is the morning and I cannot remember the name of the module
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Clatters
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Posted - 2006.03.29 03:31:00 -
[379]
Edited by: Clatters on 29/03/2006 03:31:26
Ive just tried the passive merlin using:
2 x Standard launchers (limos)
2 x 150 mm's
4 x Small tech 2 extenders
2 x Shield power relay 1's
Got just over 14.2 shield per sec, and only a tech 2 small shield can get 15 without amp.
Edit: Sticky this post please :)
Only have average skills in appropriate areas.
All in all, quite fun!
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2006.03.29 18:14:00 -
[380]
ôcan you add the 5% shield hp increase implant and then place the 30% shield hp increase module on the ship, without causeing a penalty conflict between the two?ö
The only 30% module I can think off boost active shield boosters not hitpoints. But shield implants do not have a stacking penalty. You can mix them with other modules that boost hitpoints without any problem.
"Sorry to be a noodge, but if you could answer me a few questions about a certain ships potential for Passive tanking I would be greatly appreciative (See iskies)."
ItÆs hard to choose the best setup without knowing what you do PvE, PvP and what type of play style.
The strongest tank I could make is 3 large T2 shield extenders 2 Invul fields T2 and 5 shield relays T1. This gives roughly 123 HP regen give or take a little depending on skills, implants and gang skills. Assuming your hit with Em and Thermal you can tank roughly 543 DPS.
Cap might be a problem you cannot leave the fields on none stop as they will over time drain all you cap. Not sure how long way over 5minuets perhaps a lot longer. If thatÆs a problem fitting 1 PDS instead of 1 relay or swapping 1 field for 1 extender should solve the problem, that or turn the fields off between battles.
If your PvEing then scarp the invul fields and swap for passive or active hardeners that match the rats your facing. I only take fields as I hate swapping setups between missions.
Another option is to go for hitpoints over regen. Take 2 invul fields and swap all 5 relays for 5 PDS modules.
Note: Dread Invul fields do give a large impact on the tank. But priceÆs have shot though the roof recently.
Due to the ships bonus active tanking might work better.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
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Waenn Ironstaff
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Posted - 2006.04.02 01:14:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Mo Steel
My primary attempts at passive shield tanking have been very promising in my opinion. Running the following setup:
Merlin
Hi-Slots
2x 125mm Railgun I
2x Standard Missile Launcher I
Mid-Slots
2x Small Shield Extender I
[u]Low-Slots[/i]
2x Shield Power Relay I
I was able to clear out a 3/10 Rogue Drone Asteroid Infestation complex on my own, without them ever taking me below 40% shields. I'm frankly surprised that I can run it in a tech 1 frig with all unnamed tech 1 mods.
Using your this previous setup, would it be possible to fit and use effectively:
2 Rockets, 2 Blasters
2 small Extenders, 2 Shield rechargers
2 Shield power relay
Thus going effectively all passive :) For PvE purpose mind, you because I don't think you can survive and still keep your enemy pinned own for a fight.
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Aleis
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Posted - 2006.04.02 15:15:00 -
[382]
an interesting bit of information, if you have near maxed skills with the Siegewarfare spec. and Squad command, running a Shield effiency gang module and will actualy save you cap if you fit a large shield booster.
Huray for Hi-slot tank module!
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Trelyn Thorn
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Posted - 2006.04.15 19:43:00 -
[383]
Bumping to keep this sucker alive.
One point I'd like to see addressed is exactly how shield resist mods affect effective shield hp. For example, mounting a single invuln fiel would give 25% all-round resistance, but wouldn't that translate to 33% additional shield hp? The point is mathematical but I believe it's correct - you'd take the reciprocal of the percentage i.e. new effective shield hp = 1/(0.75) * previous effective shield hp). Plus the effective shield recharge rate is also correspondingly increased.
Implications are that invuln fields are better than most think. By my calculations, a Ferox with 2x large extenders and 2x invulns is slightly better off (10434 ehp) than one with 3x large extenders and 1x invuln (10167 ehp). The first setup uses lots less powergrid, while the second doesn't use cap. Ferox passive tankers can choose accordingly. Of course, rat-specific active hardeners are even better.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2006.04.16 08:19:00 -
[384]
ôOne point I'd like to see addressed is exactly how shield resist mods affect effective shield hp. For example, mounting a single invuln fiel would give 25% all-round resistance,ö
There are two good equations you can use to answer that.
2*122.2/((1-0.50)+(1-0.50))=
Or
4*122.2/((1-0.50)+(1-0.72)+(1-0.50)+(1-050))=
Replace 122.2 with your shield HP regen, replace the 50Æs with your shield resistance. So if regen is 90 EM resistance is 30% and thermal is 60% you do 2* 90/((1-0.30)+(1-0.60))=
So to find out if 2 fields are better. Do the above formula with 1 field. Then lower the regen and up the resistance for the 2ed field and compare the two numbers.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Trelyn Thorn
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Posted - 2006.04.16 15:56:00 -
[385]
Originally by: Pottsey
So to find out if 2 fields are better. Do the above formula with 1 field. Then lower the regen and up the resistance for the 2ed field and compare the two numbers.
I understand the formula finds the ratio of shield recharge to averaged incoming unresisted damage (per hp). Certainly useful, I'd agree. I was actually talking about a slightly different point. In the case of an invulnerability field, since all resistances are boosted equally, it would be possible to talk about the 'difference in effective hp' before and after the field. It's a slightly different way to account for resists - multiplying the initial hp by a factor that accounts for the resistance increase, so that you can see how many more percent dmg your tank can absorb. Furthermore, thinking in terms of changes in effective hp also inherently takes into account the increased passive shield recharge.
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VaderDSL
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Posted - 2006.04.16 17:10:00 -
[386]
Hi I was wondering if I could have my Ferox passive setup checked out please? And to see if I have my figures correct.
High Slot
~~~~~~~~~~
5 X Tech 2 Heavy Missile Launchers
1 X Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing
Mid Slots
~~~~~~~~~~
3 X Tech 2 Shield Extenders
1 X Tech 2 Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
1 X Tech 2 Heat Dissipation Amplifier
Low Slots
~~~~~~~~~~
4 X Shield Power Relay I's
I have 12134 Shield Hit Points, and a recharge of 297 Seconds. I also have Siege warfare level 5 which is an additional 10% shield capacity on top of my base shield hitpoints.
So 12134/297 = 40.855 shield regen per second. So at peak recharge 40.855*2.5 = 102.138per second?
Does this sound right?
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Kldraina
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Posted - 2006.04.16 23:41:00 -
[387]
Edited by: Kldraina on 16/04/2006 23:40:53
That's about what my Ferox gets, so yeah, that seems about right (and your math checks out). Imagine what a Vulture could get |
Tousaka Langley
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Posted - 2006.04.16 23:55:00 -
[388]
Edited by: Tousaka Langley on 16/04/2006 23:55:11
The only frigate worth passive tanking with is the Worm, which is an insane ship in that regard.
Unless 2000+ shield in a frigate is low...
Yeah, sig goes up, but a properly fitted one can do level 2 missions better then a destroyer.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.04.17 00:54:00 -
[389]
Originally by: VaderDSL
Hi I was wondering if I could have my Ferox passive setup checked out please? And to see if I have my figures correct.
High Slot
~~~~~~~~~~
5 X Tech 2 Heavy Missile Launchers
1 X Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing
Mid Slots
~~~~~~~~~~
3 X Tech 2 Shield Extenders
1 X Tech 2 Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
1 X Tech 2 Heat Dissipation Amplifier
Low Slots
~~~~~~~~~~
4 X Shield Power Relay I's
I have 12134 Shield Hit Points, and a recharge of 297 Seconds. I also have Siege warfare level 5 which is an additional 10% shield capacity on top of my base shield hitpoints.
So 12134/297 = 40.855 shield regen per second. So at peak recharge 40.855*2.5 = 102.138per second?
Does this sound right?
That looks and sounds right, but that's alot of shield regen on something that might not be able to break the tank of a 1mil BS, despite being able to tank several of them easily I'd imagine.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
VaderDSL
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Posted - 2006.04.17 00:57:00 -
[390]
I like to semi-role play, so my Ferox will be used as a gang command ship in lvl 4's I won't be solo'ing any.
I will have a Raven and a Dominix as support I want to be able to stay in lvl 4 missions should I take any aggro during the course thereby offering support to anti-frigate/cruisers and providing the warfare link
For tougher missions I have a logistics Raven with 3 maedium named shield transporters.
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Dri Kulsane
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Posted - 2006.04.26 12:31:00 -
[391]
Just to start off, I'm completely new to this whole area of the game. As a player I have focused all my time on armor tanking, but have read alot about shields. If anyone could go to the trouble to checking my numbers, I would be very greatful! All was done at work, using excel, so my capacitor calculations may be off. (along with everything else)
I'm interested in testing out some passive shield tanks for the 'Minmatar ships'. All are based on NPC setups for Serpentis missions. So, only Kin and Term resistances are being hardened. Tell me if this sounds possible:
Tempest
2*Large Shield Extender II
2*active Kin Hardener II
2*active Term Hardener II
4*Shield Relay II
2*PDU II
Shield HP: 13081
Recharge time: 410
Kin res: 88
Term res: 84
Optimal shield regeneration: 80 HP/sec
With resistances taken into account: 563 HP/sec
Capacitor Capacity: 6279
Capacitor recharge: 1347
Running time: 58 minutes (complete guess, nothing in highs yet)
--------------------
Claymore
1*Large Shield Extender II
3*active Kin Hardener II
2*active Term Hardener II
2*Shield Relay II
2*PDU II
Shield HP: 7064
Recharge time: 284
Kin res: 95
Term res: 92
Optimal shield regeneration: 48 HP/sec
With resistances taken into account: 714 HP/sec
Capacitor Capacity: 2955
Capacitor recharge: 551
Running time: 67 minutes (complete guess, nothing in highs yet)
--------------------
Sleipnir
2*Large Shield Extender II
2*active Kin Hardener II
2*active Term Hardener II
3*Shield Relay II
2*PDU II
Shield HP: 9379
Recharge time: 273
Kin res: 88
Term res: 90
Optimal shield regeneration: 86 HP/sec
With resistances taken into account: 770 HP/sec
Capacitor Capacity: 2955
Capacitor recharge: 744
Running time: 62 minutes (complete guess, nothing in highs yet)
--------------------
Vagabond
2*Large Shield Extender II
1*active Kin Hardener II
1*active term Hardener II
3*Shield Relay II
2*PDU II
Shield HP: 9013
Recharge time: 273
Kin res: 73
Term res: 60
Optimal shield regeneration: 82 HP/sec
With resistances taken into account: 246 HP/sec
Capacitor Capacity: 1196
Capacitor recharge: 427
Running time: 35 minutes (complete guess, nothing in highs yet)
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Glarion Garnier
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Posted - 2006.04.26 20:03:00 -
[392]
Say Vulture with 3 shield links with maxed skills. hmm makes interesting possibilities.
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Liesander
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Posted - 2006.04.26 23:10:00 -
[393]
Heres another Cyclone passive shield tank for critique :)
Its a PvE setup
Hi : 220AC x5, Heavy Launcher x3
Mid : AB, Shield Extender t2 x2, Shield Hardener t2 x2
Low : Shield Power Relay x4
The hardeners can be left running almost indefinately. If the AB is activated as well you will slowly lose cap but its in the order of 5-10mins or so.
According to quickfit I get 8065 shields with recharge rate of approx 61.53 per second with skills at 3 or 4 (working on getting them to 5)
As a previous poster said you are discarding one of the cyclones boni but there are advantages. With an AB the speed of the cyclone means I can catch any cruiser (trying to get range for its long range guns) I have come up against and pull it within range of the ACs. Whilst pulling them in the heavy launchers soften them up a bit.
The shield seems strong enough to pretty much ignore any frigates and concentrate on the larger ships (although if the frigs start concentrating on fighting the drones the ACs will start hitting). The cyclones larger drone bay means I can carry 4 medium drones to get rid of the pesky frigs in short order.
Switch the hardeners for the appropriate racial specific ones. Ditching the webber (in Lovayn's setup) gives me a slot for the second hardener letting me cover both of the enemies damage types.
Last advantage of the Cyclone is the minnies ability to switch in whichever damage type is appropriate to its ACs.
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trap
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Posted - 2006.05.19 12:26:00 -
[394]
any raven passive setups?
----------------------------------------------
[ 2003.11.20 05:35:28 ] Jade Constantine > looks like you blasted the crap out of a load of our ships again |
Angus Torg
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Posted - 2006.05.19 12:49:00 -
[395]
The basic variant:
6 * Launcher of your flavour
2 * Heavy Nosferatu
3 * Large Shield Extender II
3 * Invulnerability Fields II
5 * Shield Power Relay I
But you will probably get ganked at the next gate.
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trap
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Posted - 2006.05.19 16:59:00 -
[396]
yea thts wot i came up with, :/
----------------------------------------------
[ 2003.11.20 05:35:28 ] Jade Constantine > looks like you blasted the crap out of a load of our ships again |
Megasaxon
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Posted - 2006.06.12 22:20:00 -
[397]
Edited by: Megasaxon on 12/06/2006 22:25:57
Edited by: Megasaxon on 12/06/2006 22:23:04
how bout a cerb setup?...PVP wise...i came up with
5x Heavy Launcher 2's
2x Large Shield Extender 2's
T2 EM Active Hardner
T2 Afterburner
T2 Sensor Booster
3x BCU 2's and a PDU 2
dunno bout the formula but i can kill any HAC or bs before it hits* my armor...any thoughts? (including flames  )
hehe
Now who said that Cerb's can't have a railgun?
The wuv you spread is gold. -Capsicum |
Yakov Krasnov
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Posted - 2006.06.28 18:32:00 -
[398]
I've passive shield tanked a few different ships, and since I saw some folks asking about it, I thought I'd post some of my setups.
My Caracal I run usually for missions, but don't like swapping hardeners every time I turn around. Also, my missile skills aren't all that great so the hordes of frigates take forever to kill with heavy missiles.
3x heavy launchers
2x assault launchers
1x 10MN afterburner II
1x Large shield extender
2x shield rechargers
1x Invulnerability field
1x Shield power relay
1x PDS
I get about 16 shield per second on this setup. I can hit 24 shield per second if I fit only assault launchers for anti-frig work.
Recently I ran into a mission with 3 cruisers throwing heavy EM missiles at me, and swapped the inv field and a recharger for an EM and a thermal hardener. That put all my resists at 50% or better, so I liked the setup and it tanked the mission like a champ. I might make it my default, I'm not sure.
Anyways, I can run the hardener(s) and AB all day and my cap will hold at 40-50%.
I went into that mission initially with a Cormorant that is also passive tanked, and warped out since 3 cruisers and a frig vs. my destroyer was going to suck, and the Cormorant is also passive tanked but with no hardeners. If I tried to run hardeners I'd have to either skip the AB or run the more cap-conserving ammo than antimatter or iron. One benefit to the passive shield tank is when I realized I was in deep ****, I had almost 2k shield HP they had to pound through, so I had plenty of time to leave before they got to my armor. The bad news is I don't have enough grid to mount heavier railguns than the 75's. Anyways, here's the setup:
7x 75mm rails
1x rocket launcher
1x 1MN afterburner II
2x Medium shield extenders
1x shield recharger
1x micro aux power core
I get about 11 shield per second with this setup.
Comments?
-----------------------------------------------
Mercenary minded - I'll fly whatever works best. |
Knoppaz
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Posted - 2006.06.28 18:43:00 -
[399]
Originally by: Tousaka Langley
Edited by: Tousaka Langley on 16/04/2006 23:55:11
The only frigate worth passive tanking with is the Worm, which is an insane ship in that regard.
Unless 2000+ shield in a frigate is low...
Yeah, sig goes up, but a properly fitted one can do level 2 missions better then a destroyer.
Nah..
You can passive tank a Merlin quite well for NPCing and the Jag simply screams for a passive tank.
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Neckbone
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Posted - 2006.06.28 19:25:00 -
[400]
Edited by: Neckbone on 28/06/2006 19:32:04
Edited by: Neckbone on 28/06/2006 19:26:49
.
I'm a passive tank nut, inspired by this thread. Here's my passive tanks at the moment, including their DPS limits per damage type (All these ships are with Shield Management 5 & Shield Operation 5, 3% shieldHP implant, 3% shield recharge implant.):
Rifter (1330 shieldHP, 17.85 shield/sec, 0/60/40/20 resist, 18/45/30/22 dps limit)
HI: 3x 150mm (scout), 1x rocket (arbalest)
MID: 1x AB (cold-gas), 1x Web (fleeting), 1x Med Ext (F-S9)
LO: 3x SPR I
Can run the AB & Web forever, 837 m/s top speed. Did all L2's (including HC 5) in this one. Still fly it waiting for my Jaguar.
Thrasher (2109 shieldHP, 22.65 shield/sec, 0/60/40/20 resist, 23/57/38/28 dps limit)
HI: 7x 150mm I, 1x rocket I
MID: 1x AB (colg-gas), 2x Med Ext I
LO: 2x SPR I
Can run the AB forever, over 500 m/s top speed. I don't fly it much, hence no named.
Rupture-T2 (7017 shieldHP, 73.59 shield/sec, 0/60/40/20 resist, 74/184/123/92 dps limit)
HI: 4x 220mm I, 2x heavy missile I
MID: 1x AB (y-s8)), 2x Large Ext II
LO: 5x SPR I
Can run AB forever, over 500 m/s top speed. I really don't fly it much, I prefer frigates, but it's got a monster tank on it since I changed it to T2 extenders.
Cyclone-T2 (14437 shieldHP, 121.12 shield/sec, 0/60/40/20 resist, 121/303/202/151 dps limit)
HI: 5x 220mm I, 2x Heavy I
MID: 1x AB (y-s8), 4x Large Ext II
LO: 4x SPR I
Can run AB forever, 411 m/s top speed. It can actually reach 140/352/243/176 with 3 extenders and 1 T2 invlun, but it can't maintain that forever (though it holds for a LONG time). But I don't like to swap out and I fight all damage types all the time, so I'm lazy. Breezes through most L3's, some of the really monstrous firepower missions are nasty, though if I would fit hardeners against them they wouldn't be as bad.
Jaguar-T2 (1806 shieldHP, 24.25 shield/s, 75/60/62.5/60 resist, 97/61/65/61 dps limit)
HI: 3x 200mm T2, 1x Rocket T2
MID: AB T2, Web (Fleeting), Med Ext T2, KN Amp T2
LO: 3x SPR I
I'm not flying this one yet, but I'm close. Really looking forward to it, too! I love passive shields!
Please forward any opinions about passive shielding a Rupture to:
[email protected]
EDIT - To the post above, SPR II's aren't in game, probably never will be, give up the dream. :)
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Marcus Alkhaar
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Posted - 2006.06.28 20:31:00 -
[401]
ok... here comes the Uberized Vulture setup for PvP/gangboost:
681.25 CPU / 646 CPU used
1757.10 PG / 1580.1875 used
4x Heavy Missile Launcher II (loaded with Precision heavies for taking out support)
3x Gang mods
5x Large shield Extender II
1x EM hard II
2x PDS II
1x Shield power relay II
1x Damage control (yup)
5x Light Drone II (for taking out support ect)
The 2x 5% Shield implants + the mind link implant is used in these calculations
Shield HP: 26084.5470
Shield Recharge time: 477.2182
Shield Hp Recharged per second: 136,6489
EM RES: 74,68
EXP RES: 79.07
KIN Res: 84.30
THERM RES: 89.53
Pure DPS tanked per second (EM-EXP-KIN-THERM): 699.1501
Pure DPS Tanked per Second (Kin-Therm): 1044.31
Pure DPS Tanked per Second (EM-Therm): 763.61
Cap: the Capacitor can run the 3 gang mods + Hardener 23/7
Conclusion: THIS SHIP CAN TAKE A *SWEAR-WORD* PUNCH!
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Majin82
Caldari
g guild
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Posted - 2006.10.28 17:36:00 -
[402]
Anyone Passive tanked a Drake yet?
-------------------------------------
Proud member of G Guild! |
lofty29
Tolarri Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.28 17:57:00 -
[403]
Originally by: Majin82
Anyone Passive tanked a Drake yet?
Necro!!
---
Praxiteles Inc. is Recruiting!
WTB Brokara's Modified Cap Booster + 'Radical' Damage control |
Royaldo
KVA Noble Inc.
THE H0RDE
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Posted - 2006.10.28 18:21:00 -
[404]
you might wanna have a look at the start date of this thread ... there is no necro in this thread. its been running for close to 2 years.
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Psinakis
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Posted - 2006.10.30 13:19:00 -
[405]
Recently i bought a scorpion which i fittet with 4 lows shield power relays (i think that this is the right name), 6 t2 shield rechargers, 1 large named shield extender, 1 invuln field. I can tank 3 bcs plus 2 escort frings eternaly but im looking for something bigger than that . Any advice in fitting? (forgot to say that my shield skills are not perfected yet)
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Karandor
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Posted - 2006.10.30 13:33:00 -
[406]
The passive tanked cyclones, sleipnirs and claymores in this thread make me cry.
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Blue Dice
Gallente
The KittyCat Crew
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Posted - 2006.11.08 13:52:00 -
[407]
I was wondering if anyone has been looking at how the changes in Kali will influence the whole pasive shield tanking.
Anyone?
Ps.: I know it's an old tread, but it's as usefull as it was two years ago.
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Adoran Wa'alle
Caldari
5punkorp
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.10 13:25:00 -
[408]
Originally by: Blue Dice
I was wondering if anyone has been looking at how the changes in Kali will influence the whole pasive shield tanking.
Anyone?
Ps.: I know it's an old tread, but it's as usefull as it was two years ago.
Passive tanks will be used a lot in Kali. Because of the HP boost, everyone and their dog is fitting nosses, since capusing ships (lasers, hybrids) are at a disadvantage when the fights last longer. The answer to this? Passive shield tank. Immune to nos. If Kali stays the way it is now on SiSi, then there's nothing to do but start training passive tank skills ;)
-----------------------------------
Rawr. awrarawr! |
Drazin DawnTreader
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Posted - 2006.11.10 23:16:00 -
[409]
I just wanted to drop a line to say how great this setup really is.
I have 10 mil SP devoted soley to combat and fitting skills and my Rifter blows the doors off my Interceptor.
I love it.
The best thing is, you only need about 12 hours worth of training to fit everything and start killing.
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Sha'Uri Dark
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.13 16:00:00 -
[410]
Don't know if anyones crunched any numbers for the Ferox as I didn't read all 12 pages but I came up with this in quickfit:
Skills:
Battle cruiser: 4
Electronics:4
Energy Upgrades:4
Energy Man.:4
Eng:5
Shield Man.:4
Shield Op.:5
Shield Upgrades:4
Highs:
5x 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I
2x Med Nos
Mids:
3x Large Shield Extender II
2x Free Slots
Lows:
4x Shield Power Relay II
This set up gives:
Max Shields:11,310
Max Regen: 136.45/sec
Adding in 2 more Lg T2 extenders gives:
Max Shield:16,350
Max Regen:197.26/sec
-------------------------------------------------
As a Freelancer the thoughts and opinions contained within this post are my own. Don't like them feel free not to complain to me about them. |
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Pottsey
Gallente
Acme Shipping Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.13 17:34:00 -
[411]
"4x Shield Power Relay II"
You might find those a bit of a problem to get hold off. As far as I can tell they are not out.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Frederik Andersen
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Posted - 2006.11.13 20:51:00 -
[412]
I have used this setup for many months, in PVP and PVE.
Cerb. Passive tank setup
High: 5X Heavy II, 1 DG. Cloak.
5Med: 1X DG EM Passiv Hard., 2X Large Shield Ext. II, 2X Invul. Field II.
4Low: 2X BCS II, 1X internal force field array I, 2X PDU II.
Tanks fairly good and spews missiles out like crasy.
But what could i switch out so my tank is better?
Skills is no problem as they are all in lvl 4-5.
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Soporo
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:59:00 -
[413]
Edited by: Soporo on 13/11/2006 22:28:20
I've begun using a passive setup with my Ferox for missioning since I read this thread (most of it anyway).
Thanks for providing this excellent data, it is very usefull to new low sp players like myself.
The only thing I have done differently is use a named Invulnerability Field, and a Damage Controll and a Ballistic Controll system.
I figured the Inv Field and Dam Contr would complement the good inherent shield resists of the Ferox coupled with my other (admittedly low) shield resist skills.
This setup seems to work well for me in any lvl 3.
Am I wasting my time with Damage Controll as opposed to one more shield regen low slot module?
Thoughts? |
Sha'Uri Dark
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.13 22:33:00 -
[414]
Originally by: Pottsey
"4x Shield Power Relay II"
You might find those a bit of a problem to get hold off. As far as I can tell they are not out.
Blah right you are. Changing them to T1's gives:
Max Shield:11,310
Max Regen:92.04/sec
As long as theres something to Nos and I'm not being Nos'ed cap never drops belows 100% and can be sustained forever. Even without something to Nos after 12mins it's still above 50% cap. This is with fitting 2 T1 dmg specific hardeners.
2x T2 Invlun fields and it hits 50% cap in under 5mins without something to Nos. With something to Nos it never drops below 100% and can be sustained forever.
Resists with 2x T2 Invlun Fields:
EM:58.6
Ex:83.44
Kin:75.16
Therm:66.88
NOTE: only ran quickfit cap sim for 15mins. Post Kali there might be a difference with the HP boost making fights last longer. Maybe we'll see SPR II's in Kali also
-------------------------------------------------
As a Freelancer the thoughts and opinions contained within this post are my own. Don't like them feel free not to complain to me about them. |
Laughlyn Vaughns
Gallente
Lagos-Vaughn Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.14 02:35:00 -
[415]
anyone been on test server and tried this lot on a drake yet? im trainign battlecruiser lv5 up for kali/revelations and been lookign at passive shileding my drake when i get it. from looking at the ferox setups and with drake beign 100% no cap use on weapons its gonan be a pain in the butt to kill one
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Jenni Achura
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Posted - 2006.11.14 06:43:00 -
[416]
Originally by: Laughlyn Vaughns
anyone been on test server and tried this lot on a drake yet? im trainign battlecruiser lv5 up for kali/revelations and been lookign at passive shileding my drake when i get it. from looking at the ferox setups and with drake beign 100% no cap use on weapons its gonan be a pain in the butt to kill one
Yup, that's partially why everyone is screaming "nerf the drake!1". the new Heavy Assault Missiles that can get a range of up to 70km with Javs, and a strong passive shield tank, it really is a ***** to kill when you couple in the new SP boost.
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Neckbone
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.11.26 16:19:00 -
[417]
Edited by: Neckbone on 26/11/2006 16:21:24
Originally by: Blue Dice
I was wondering if anyone has been looking at how the changes in Kali will influence the whole pasive shield tanking.
Anyone?
Ps.: I know it's an old tread, but it's as usefull as it was two years ago.
I've done the math for what I *should* be able to expect. Here's what my *old* setups kick out (Shield Management/Operation 5 & both 5% shield HP/recharge implants):
Shipname - shieldHP | shield/s
Rifter - 1513 | 20
Thrasher - 2779 | 30
Rupture - 7153 | 76
Cyclone - 14717 | 126
Tempest - 18326 | 122
*Jaguar - 1841 | 25
*Muninn - 7357 | 78
Now after Kali, their numbers should be like this:
Rifter - 1891 | 20
Thrasher - 3714 | 32
Rupture - 8945 | 76
Cyclone - 19550 | 133
Tempest - 22908 | 122
*Jaguar - 2209 | 24
*Muninn - 8966 | 76
The Rifter, Rupture, and Tempest all gained shields and kept the same peak regen. The Thrasher & Cyclone both gained significant shieldHP and shield/s. Both of the T2's I like saw a small increase in shields, and a slight reduction in peak regen. Boosting T2 HP by 12.5% and total regen time by 25% sucks ass. That's why the peak regen went down for T2 ships.
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Drazin DawnTreader
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Posted - 2006.11.26 16:52:00 -
[418]
My Current Rifter setup:
3x 150mm scout Autocannons
1x Arbalest Rocket Launcher
1x Afterburner II
1x Medium Shield Extender II
1x M51 Shield Regenerator
3x Shield Power Relay I
Note this is for PvE so no need for a scrambler or webber.
I end up with 1441 Shield HP @ 172.8 sec for 20.85 hp/sec regen
.49pg remain.
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Lucid Nightmare
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:12:00 -
[419]
Originally by: Neckbone
Boosting T2 HP by 12.5% and total regen time by 25% sucks ass. That's why the peak regen went down for T2 ships.
Aye, this is kind of odd, why the T2 cruisers and frigates get 12.5% HP and 25% shield regen. Effectively lowering passive tanking a bit.
But the other T2 destroyers and battlecruisers get 33.33% and 28.125% more HP with the same 25% regen. Increasing passive shield regen.
I don't get this reasoning.
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Pwny McPwnerson
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Posted - 2006.12.03 23:53:00 -
[420]
What's the best recharge rate anyone has come up with on the Rokh?
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:10:00 -
[421]
The Rokh is not a very good passive tanking ship. It can passive tank better than the Raven, that's about all I can say for it.
**********************************************
Tank Rankings - Ships & Fittings Compared!
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=386174 |
Razean
Minmatar
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:59:00 -
[422]
Originally by: Lucid Nightmare
Originally by: Neckbone
Boosting T2 HP by 12.5% and total regen time by 25% sucks ass. That's why the peak regen went down for T2 ships.
Aye, this is kind of odd, why the T2 cruisers and frigates get 12.5% HP and 25% shield regen. Effectively lowering passive tanking a bit.
But the other T2 destroyers and battlecruisers get 33.33% and 28.125% more HP with the same 25% regen. Increasing passive shield regen.
I don't get this reasoning.
CCP wanted to close the performance gap between T1 and T2. They wanted to give Destroyers a bit more survivability, as their RMR state actually made them more fragile than frigates (slightly more HP but significantly larger sig radius than frigs). They wanted to open the gap between Cruisers and Battlecruisers. All the HP changes were pretty much inline with their goals. The changes to passive tanking are not that significant (and T2 frigs are still significantly more powerful than T1 frigs) I passive tank my Jag, and haven't really noticed the difference from RMR to Kali. It's still able to kick arse and walk away with 50% shields. Then again, I alse have a 2 mil skillpoint difference between my last RMR Jag run and my Kali Jag testing.
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Ryanthusar
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Posted - 2006.12.18 08:32:00 -
[423]
Passive tanking apon a Drake is a challege, but well worth it. (at least in my opinion) requiring high (read mosly 4) skills both in shield skills, shield implants, and resource reducing skills (aka shield upgrades, adv weap upgrades etc etc)
At the moment, I field
5 large extender II's
3 PDS II's
1 Shield recharger
6 Heavy missile launcher II's
1 Scavenger
1 Small tractor beam
1 BCS II
EM resist 20%
TH resist 32%
KI resist 52%
EX resist 68%
26604 Shield cap, 579 seconds recharge.
So that essencially gives me 114 cap a second. And when I learn shield upgrades 5, I'll replace a PDS with a shield power relay II. Of cource this setup is best suited for PvE, and if I am facing a mission with thermal or EM damage I'll swap out an extender for a passive resistance amp II specific to that damage, but on the whole... nice!
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2006.12.18 10:24:00 -
[424]
There are no shield power relay II's yet.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Ryanthusar
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Posted - 2006.12.19 21:47:00 -
[425]
http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/shipequipment/shield/shieldpowerrelays/1422.asp
I've set up a buy order for one in the marketplace
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Ryanthusar
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Posted - 2006.12.22 10:43:00 -
[426]
Wondering what you guys think about the new shield rigs? potentially will full shield rigging skills you could end up with only 15% sig radius increace for three rigs on a BC. with the Anti-em screen reinforcer II adding 35% resistance, or a Core Defence Field extender II adding 20% shield... and as far as I know, they dont have a stacking penalty and increace /all/ your shield just not the base. So... add three of them togeather.
But I'm probably totally off the mark here, anyone have the info?
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2006.12.22 11:03:00 -
[427]
Shield Purger for 20% extras shield recharge seem the best rig.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
CreEDLom
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.22 14:52:00 -
[428]
Pottsey
I really enjoy alot of folks not in the know about this subject. Please keep this on the down low
Thanks
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Lady ISK
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Posted - 2006.12.27 07:53:00 -
[429]
How Sad is this
My current fit on my Myrmidon
3 Tech II Large
2 Tech II Amps
2 PDS and 4 Shield Relays
Giving me a total of 15093 shield
recharge of 339
off the bat recharge of roughly 44
and with the 2.4 sweet spot modifer 106.8
Go over to a Brutix
3 Tech II Large
2 Tech II Amps
6 Shield Relays
Total of 15808
Time 460
Base of 38.9
Sweet Spot 93.4
That's the "best" I could do. Which basically leaves me needing to fit 2 nos to run my other 4 guns otherwise I get cap back like a snail.
13 a second different is HUGE, freaking huge.
I see something just a tad wrong with a BS only getting 1800 some odd more shield than a BC but having its recharge time doubled.
If i drop the money to buy the 3 rigs, i can get my Myr up to an insane 327 per second, my Domi won't be able to hang instead sitting at 182. That's just wrong.
Am I doing something wrong, or could I possibly make any corrections to squeeze some more out of my Domi?
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R34PER
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Posted - 2006.12.31 05:35:00 -
[430]
Edited by: R34PER on 31/12/2006 05:38:43
Hey pottsey, i need a little bit of advice/tweaking from your side on my passive Drake tanking setup, i hope i can continue to use it on lvl 4's to avoid buying ugly raven.
My current fitting is as follows:
7xLimos Heavy Missle Bays
1xSmall Tractor Beam
2xLarge Subordinate Screen Stabilizers (Soon fitting T2's though)
1xFixed Paraller Link-Capacitor for keeping my cap at around 70% with 3 active hardeners running
3xRat specific hardeners, or 2 hardies with 1 invuln field
2xBallistics Control Unit I's
2xPower Diagnostic System I's
My current shield capacity with hardwirings is 12292 and recharge time is 881 sec, topping almost 35 shields/s in sweetspot. 1124.55 PWG and 630 CPU. Have run 3's with great success, only dropped to around 35% at guristas extravaganza extra stage, with all the sentries and rats pounding me.
So what i need advice about is that if i should drop the cap recharger for another shield extender or even shield recharger (working on the skills to compensate the loss), and if i really should get rid of the active hardeners and just fit shield rechargers instead? And other improvements you may think of :) I'm guessing i have probably done well because of the resists (around 72% for main damage type, and 64% for secondary, depending on damage types ofcourse) compensating for the low recharge rate. I also plan on getting shield maintenance drones as soon as i can, with 25m^3 drone space i could just take 2 medium and 1 light shield drones.
Also which rigs should i use looking forward to level 4 missions?
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2006.12.31 11:13:00 -
[431]
ôAm I doing something wrong, or could I possibly make any corrections to squeeze some more out of my Domi?ö
I found the same thing the Domi is no longer the best T1 Gallant passive tankers which is a shame. I pretty much only use the Myrmidon and Eos now.
R34PER you need to get 3 large T2 shield extenders. Cap should not be a problem so trying getting both cap skills to lvl 4 or 5. Or try extra PDS until you get more cap skills. DonÆt forget about the 2 cheap shield implants about 300k each. You say your cap stays at 70% try takeing out out the cap module and seeing if it runs out. You cap should stabilise between 30 to 50% your ok as long as it doesnÆt go below 30%.
Shield Recharge rigs are best. Another option would be to take out the highest resistance active module and swap to passive until you fix the cap problem. Losing a bit of resistance but gaining all those extra hitpoints form the extender should work out better.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Lumberjackhammer
Caldari
Dodge this inc
Vanu Space Command
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Posted - 2007.01.01 03:44:00 -
[432]
now this is how to passive tank a drake, first of all, dont use 3 extenders, 2 is more then enough.
7 heavy missile launcher tech 2
2 shield extender tech 2
3 active hardners, invulvs, rat specific, whatever
1 shield recharger tech 2
2 bcu tech 2
2 shield power relays
with this I got 70/s, now since Im using this as a lvl 4 mission runner, I just invested in 3 shield recharge rigs, so now my recharge rate is 120/s, with only 2 extenders...
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Diatom
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Posted - 2007.01.01 20:06:00 -
[433]
Wow....spent the last 3 hours reading this post and not playing EVE. Pottsey my hat's off to u for a remarkable post. Gonna go dust off my Drake, passive tank it, and start to enjoy it.
"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there" |
Shi Mun
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.01.01 23:56:00 -
[434]
Originally by: R34PER
Edited by: R34PER on 31/12/2006 05:38:43
Hey pottsey, i need a little bit of advice/tweaking from your side on my passive Drake tanking setup, i hope i can continue to use it on lvl 4's to avoid buying ugly raven.
My current fitting is as follows:
7xLimos Heavy Missle Bays
1xSmall Tractor Beam
2xLarge Subordinate Screen Stabilizers (Soon fitting T2's though)
1xFixed Paraller Link-Capacitor for keeping my cap at around 70% with 3 active hardeners running
3xRat specific hardeners, or 2 hardies with 1 invuln field
2xBallistics Control Unit I's
2xPower Diagnostic System I's
My current shield capacity with hardwirings is 12292 and recharge time is 881 sec, topping almost 35 shields/s in sweetspot. 1124.55 PWG and 630 CPU. Have run 3's with great success, only dropped to around 35% at guristas extravaganza extra stage, with all the sentries and rats pounding me.
35hp/s sweet spot? ouch
try using -
3 Large shield extender IIs
2 rat specific resist amps
1 Shield recharger II
3 Shield Power relay
1 Power Diagnostic II
Now i cant remember the Stats but with the 3% gnome implants in the shield recharge was 104hp/s sweetspot and with the compensation skills at 4 your resists should be fine (before rigs). As for rigs i would go for one that decreases shield recharge, one that increases shield capacity and one for missile damage.
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HAHA! your jammers suck now! Oh wait whats happening to my scorpion... |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2007.01.02 15:59:00 -
[435]
Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 02/01/2007 16:02:08
Well I am preparing to fit a tempest to passive tank (including rigs, so that is why i say prepare since is a do right first time).
I want to have best real defense, not simple regen, so resistances are important. So i am wondering What woudl be best. Use rigs for resistances? Or using them for shield extension or regeneration?
my tought was:
2 Extenders 2 Invulnerability 1 shield recharger / all but 1-lows on relays the other with a good DCU. Rigs I am in doubt but for now would be: 1 EM resist 1 More HP 1 regeneration.
Anyone can make some suggestions? It will e used for missions AND pvp on group( warp on gang mate after he is engaged and use AC)
If it works i might put some money-bee line to a fleet tempest for an improved version.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Caedicus
Minmatar
Einherjar Rising
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.02 21:20:00 -
[436]
I changed my Tempest from shield boosting to a passive shield tank, and I'm loving it so far.
Meds:
2 Shield Extender II's
2 Invuln's
1 Ab
Lows:
2 PDUS
1 Shield Flux Coil
1 Shield Power Relay
2 Gyros
I need the two PDU's for powergrid issues, I would probably switch out for another gyro once I get another level in AWU.
I'm thinking there is probably room for improvement on this setup. Anyone have any suggestions?
Evolution in Eve:
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Majin82
Caldari
g guild
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:18:00 -
[437]
5 x Heavy Launchers
2 x Invul. Field II
4 x LSE II
4 x SPR
Is what I am currently using and it's great for PVP. Obviously I'm not alone since I am Caldari.
Now that Rig's are not stupid priced anymore.
Whats the new Passive Drake?
7 x Launchers
1 x Med Nos
2 x Invul. Field II
4 x LES II
2 x PDS II
2 x BCU II
3 x Shield Recharge Rig
Ideas needed here.
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Proud member of G Guild! |
Diatom
|
Posted - 2007.01.03 02:36:00 -
[438]
Edited by: Diatom on 03/01/2007 02:39:39
Drake Passive Hybrid Tank Loadout:
Mission L4 Vengence Guristas
High - 7x Heavy ML II, 1x Medium Diminishing NOS
Med - 2x Large Shield Extenders II, 1x Shield Recharger II, 2x Invulnerability Field II, 1x Ballistic Shield Hardener II (change it to whatever the Primary damage is)
Low - 2x Power Diagnostic System II, 1x Ballistic Control System II, 1x Shield Power Relay I
Rig = 2x Core Defence Charge Econ I, 1x PG Subroutine Max I (was for active tank loadout)
Shield = 15510hp, Recharge Time = 331.34sec
EM = 61.19%, EXP = 84.48%, KIN = 87.59%, THERM = 68.95%
Capacitor = 3875, Recharge Time = 635.77sec
Lowest shield level was 68% and the Capacitor was never lower than 70%
The Drake is a REAL TANK with this setup. Cost of this loadout and the Drake is cheap compared to my 1.25 billion Cerb. Thanx again Pottsey for this great post and to all the peeps that discussed it.
"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there" |
Kldraina
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Posted - 2007.01.03 04:18:00 -
[439]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
I want to have best real defense, not simple regen, so resistances are important. So i am wondering What woudl be best. Use rigs for resistances? Or using them for shield extension or regeneration?
I would not advise using resistance rigs. They are treated as modules for stacking penalties, resulting in little real bonus. You would be much better off using rigs for extra shield HP or improved shield recharge time. |
R34PER
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Posted - 2007.01.03 05:09:00 -
[440]
Originally by: Lumberjackhammer
now this is how to passive tank a drake, first of all, dont use 3 extenders, 2 is more then enough.
Actually if my calculations are correct, you get a little more shield regen with the 3rd extender versus recharger, and more shield hitpoints too!
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.01.03 07:07:00 -
[441]
"2 PDUS
1 Shield Flux Coil"
Take the flux out another relay or PDS is much better.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2007.01.03 09:28:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Kldraina
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
I want to have best real defense, not simple regen, so resistances are important. So i am wondering What woudl be best. Use rigs for resistances? Or using them for shield extension or regeneration?
I would not advise using resistance rigs. They are treated as modules for stacking penalties, resulting in little real bonus. You would be much better off using rigs for extra shield HP or improved shield recharge time.
In fact I was thinking, sicne i want to be NOS imune. I might go for 3 resistance rigs and NONE module for resistance (or at most, 1 Inv field II)
But i dont know if i try it now or wait a few weeks to put it on a fleet issue tempest(then i think i can have a reaaly good passive tank).
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
ShigeruMiyamoto
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.01.03 11:14:00 -
[443]
Any Setup-suggestions for the Passive Shield Tanking on a Maelstrom or is not a good ship for PST? Finishing the fundscollection on buying this ship.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2007.01.03 12:25:00 -
[444]
Originally by: ShigeruMiyamoto
Any Setup-suggestions for the Passive Shield Tanking on a Maelstrom or is not a good ship for PST? Finishing the fundscollection on buying this ship.
why to passive tank the BEST active tank on the game?
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
ShigeruMiyamoto
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.01.03 14:54:00 -
[445]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: ShigeruMiyamoto
Any Setup-suggestions for the Passive Shield Tanking on a Maelstrom or is not a good ship for PST? Finishing the fundscollection on buying this ship.
why to passive tank the BEST active tank on the game?
Aint it possible then to combine active and passive on the Maelstrom?
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Shandling
Minmatar
Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.03 14:55:00 -
[446]
Originally by: ShigeruMiyamoto
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: ShigeruMiyamoto
Any Setup-suggestions for the Passive Shield Tanking on a Maelstrom or is not a good ship for PST? Finishing the fundscollection on buying this ship.
why to passive tank the BEST active tank on the game?
Aint it possible then to combine active and passive on the Maelstrom?
The two big boosts for passive tanking are over sized or multiple extenders and shield power relays.
Over sized extenders means less room to fit other stuff (like boosters/amplifiers) and multiple extenders obviously mean less slots. Shield Power Relays kill your cap.
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.01.03 16:17:00 -
[447]
ôAint it possible then to combine active and passive on the Maelstrom?ö
I guess you could use PDS T2 for cap for the booster and then use the 2 shield implants and skills for a low passive regen. Wont be much but even 20hp/s extra on top of a booster is nice.
I never had any luck with hybrids. Pure active or passive seems to always work better.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Majin82
Caldari
g guild
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Posted - 2007.01.03 23:12:00 -
[448]
WhatÆs better on the Drake, extra buffer or lower full recharge time?
IÆm asking cause I am a bit stuck right now. I am trying to build a very powerful tank.
5 x Heavy Launcher
2 x Invul. Field II
4 x LSE II
4 x SPR
3 x Sheild Recharge Rigs
DoesnÆt have the grid to fit 6 or 7 launchers and the Invul.Æs will run for 15 mins.
Gives me 18400+ Shields with a total recharge time of 196 seconds and resists in the 70Æs.
Biggest problem is the lack of firepower.
6 x Heavy Launcher
2 x Invul. Field II
4 x LSE II
1 x PDS
3 x SPR
3 x Shield Recharge Rig
Has 6 launchers, gives 19600+ Shields with a total recharge time of 221 seconds. Has more Firepower.
7 x Heavy Launcher
2 x Invul. Field II
4 x LSE II
1 x RCU
3 x PDS
3 x Shield Recharge Rig
Has the full 7 launchers, with over 25000+ Shields and a total recharge time of 346 seconds.
So what is the route to go? Obviously I can not swap out the Shield Recharge Rigs, and I am fitting launcher as I have the grid. Remember I said I want the Tank to come first. I have tried out all 3 setups and they all seem to work nice.
While doing level 3 Massive attack, the first setup was able to handle section 1 with only 2% shield loss. Section 2 with the turrets drained me to 90% Shields. Agroing the entire 3rd section caused my shields to drop and stay at 74%. While the damage output is low, the tank seems unbreakable currently. Even when I turned off the Invul. Fields the tank leveled out at 63-64% and would only drop to 62% when hit by large amounts of fire at once.
I am leaning towards the first set up, while it lacks firepower it seems to be able to tank extremely well.
Pottsey, you must have some insight on this.
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Proud member of G Guild! |
Revona
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Posted - 2007.01.04 01:29:00 -
[449]
Edited by: Revona on 04/01/2007 01:36:30
Hey guys, I haven't read the last 13 pages. Excuse me if therefor I'm missing something, but...
No flux?
10 sec recharge. 100 points.
A relay makes this 100 points, 0.9 recharge. About 11.11 average p/s. And ontop of that, takes away alot of capacitor power. You can say that passive tanks do not work with scramblers and such, but I'd say it's still possible to combine those. You're suggesting to lower capacitor recharge by 20% for 12% less increase of the shield-bonus module.
A flux makes this 90 points, 0.8 recharge. About 12.50 average p/s.
Maybe I'm missing something.
Apart from that, there's some information that you're missing in the first post. It's pretty obvious after minor math to see what type of module gives the best bonus to shield hp p/s. But as you should know, in eve, it's never all about one attribute. Big shield extenders can lower transversal of a passive tank, and therefor taking more damage, and possibly tanking less well than a recharger even if the average recharge is higher on the extender. Fitting requirements are also insanely important.
Also, any resistence you have fitted, or any resistence bonus from your ship will apply to your shield bank, not shield regen, and starting out with a bigger shield bank means you can tank longer in the somewhat shorter battles even if your shield recharge p/s can be slightly higher with a recharger.
Not only is resistence not taken into account for shield extenders. (nor is weight (transversal), or fitting requirements(!), or cost, or skill training.) but resistence amplifiers aren't mentioned at all. I doubt they suck. I can understand why hardeners aren't mentioned as they aren't exactly passive, but the resist amps are.
I really think such points must be addressed here.
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.01.04 07:21:00 -
[450]
Edited by: Pottsey on 04/01/2007 07:23:09
ôNo flux?
10 sec recharge. 100 points.ö
On a ship 1 flux module gives you less HP regen then 1 shield relay. The drop in hitpoints from the flux not only lowers hitpoint regen but lower Hitpoints mean your more likely to go below peak.
Flux modules are always bad as 1 relay or if cap is a problem 1 PDS T2 is much better. Why lower Hitpoints when a T2 PDS boosts hitpoints and gives more HP regen then flux modules. When caps not a problem relays are best.
As for my first post thereÆs a fair bit missing but at some point the max text per post was lowered. Every time I try and edit the first post I lose half of it. The post wasnÆt made to explain everything about tanking. It was only to explain shield recharge as back then nearly everything thought it was hitpoints/shield recharge = x. Most people thought passive tanking was 2.5 times worse then it was.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
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Pusspuss
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Posted - 2007.01.05 15:17:00 -
[451]
Excellent thread, i am a convert! Has anyone explored the hurricane as a passive tank candidate, with 6 lows and 4 meds it seems a good candidate. I am playing with it, and my set up is getting about 45 d/s with a peak of around 110 d/s, but with a few of my level 4 skills maxed up to level 5 I could easily go to about 55 d/s and 135 d/s.
If I then also added 3 shield regen rigs, even tech 1s I could stretch up to 80 - 90 d/s and around 200+ peak.
Although, this setup is simply 3 T2 extenders and a T2 shield recharger.
and a bunch of shield power regenerators in the low slots, nothing too fancy.
By substituting the T2 recharger for a T2 invuln I get slower recharge (1460 shield in 319 to 1460 in 378) but a lot more resistance, which compares to an extra 7 or 8% d/s.
Am I making sense?
Anyway, it seems like a good setup to me atm. Anyone else played around with the hurricane?
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Dr Drago
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Posted - 2007.01.06 00:41:00 -
[452]
What is a good passive shield fitt on a caracal??
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Majin82
Caldari
g guild
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Posted - 2007.01.06 16:43:00 -
[453]
Originally by: Dr Drago
What is a good passive shield fitt on a caracal??
Because the Caracal has only 2 low slots, it is rather hard to Passive tank it.
You would get FAR better tank by using Active and thats not even saying much since the Caracal's tank is lacking.
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The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns!
Passive Drake For The Win |
Silencezz
Caldari
Serenity Co.
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Posted - 2007.01.09 19:21:00 -
[454]
Edited by: Silencezz on 09/01/2007 19:21:45
Edited by: Silencezz on 09/01/2007 19:19:51
Currently using this on a drake.
7hvy launchers & TB
3 large extenders - 3 recharge II - (sometimes I swap 1 recharge II for 1 mission specific harderner (guristals kinetic, mercs themal)
4x Shield pwr relays.
gives me 141points without harderner, with harderner 121points.
not used tierII large extenders, cost to much for the money imho
(with 3 t2 extenders, I get 168points)
Majin82 --> using a power lowering implant on shield upgrades helps a lot.
Lvl 3 mission are a breeze.
Still hesitant for lvl4, due to sometimes a warpscrambler and being stuck when u need to flee or when having a disco. lost a ferox due to that.
is there a list somewhere that tells u which missions have a scrambler?
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Kelhund
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Posted - 2007.01.11 17:19:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Thomas Torquemada
Anyone tried the Ferox esp with its better shield resistances.
I'm a Ferox pilot and use rails on her (5 rails 2 HMLs) I've found with 2 invuln fields and 3 FS-9 extenders, with 3 PDUs and 1RCU in the lows, I get about 16k shields with resistances higher than 50%. I do, however, have BC5. Tanks L3s extremely easily, however I'm not near the ship atm so I cant get the recharge/second for you.
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SolidSSnake
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Posted - 2007.01.13 06:29:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Pusspuss
Excellent thread, i am a convert! Has anyone explored the hurricane as a passive tank candidate, with 6 lows and 4 meds it seems a good candidate. I am playing with it, and my set up is getting about 45 d/s with a peak of around 110 d/s, but with a few of my level 4 skills maxed up to level 5 I could easily go to about 55 d/s and 135 d/s.
If I then also added 3 shield regen rigs, even tech 1s I could stretch up to 80 - 90 d/s and around 200+ peak.
Although, this setup is simply 3 T2 extenders and a T2 shield recharger.
and a bunch of shield power regenerators in the low slots, nothing too fancy.
By substituting the T2 recharger for a T2 invuln I get slower recharge (1460 shield in 319 to 1460 in 378) but a lot more resistance, which compares to an extra 7 or 8% d/s.
Am I making sense?
Anyway, it seems like a good setup to me atm. Anyone else played around with the hurricane?
using HardeningCalc.xls by Aliksr for the calculations, and a Hurricane as the base ship, you can use:
- 4 Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction modules
- 6 Shield Power Relay II modules
- 3 Core Defense Field Purger I rigs
for a total of 13696 Shield Capacity and a regen/second (optimal) of 286 units. The Recharge time will be 120 secs and you'll still have enough power and CPU for:
- 2 Heavy Missile Launcher II
- 6 425mm Autocannon II
for some offensive punch. If you happen to have Shield Operation and Shield Management at 5 (former values assumed a skill level of 0), you'll have a total of 17120 Shield Capacity, regen/second of 477 shield points and a full recharge time of 90 seconds.
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Kegger McManus
Minmatar
Vale Heavy Industries
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.13 06:58:00 -
[457]
^^^ I've been wanting to passive tank my hurri for some 0.0 ratting but this post has pushed me over the edge to do it.. off i go to experiment!!
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Kegger McManus
Minmatar
Vale Heavy Industries
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.14 03:52:00 -
[458]
So tooling around, i have come up with 2 setups. Rigs varyin between. One has 17k sheilds, 316/s recharge w/ 134s recharge time. The other has 25k sheilds, 256/s recharge, with a recharge time of 262 seconds.
I might drop an extender to fit a MWD, but the debate is still the same: Should i use the rigs for recharge rate, or adding to the sheild hp, or a combonation of both?
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.01.14 10:49:00 -
[459]
For HP regen recharge rigs tend to work out better most of the time. Hitpoint rigs might be better for PvP though.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Ashurn
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.19 09:48:00 -
[460]
Pottsey, say if I wanted to fit a passive shield regen with active hardeners on a Dominix, how should I go about fitting it?
Hi
4 x Large Hybrid Rail
1 x Drone Link Augmentor
1 x Small Tractor Beam (For some annoying missions requiring me to pick up cans)
Med
2 x Invulnerability Field II
3 x Large Shield Extender II
OR
3 x Tech II shield harderners
2 x Large Shield Extender II
Low
2 x Shield Power Relay I
2 x Power Diagnostic System II
3 x Magnetic Field Stabs I/II
Rigs
3 x Core Defence Field Purger I
Is the above setup good enough? Or should I change some of them?
The idea is to the 'Nix to passive tank in Level 3 missions and if possible, Level 4 missions as well.
Thanks for any help rendered.
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Dire Lonestar
Caldari
Global Isk Network
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.19 10:25:00 -
[461]
Edited by: Dire Lonestar on 19/01/2007 10:22:54
The best passive tank setup (on my DRAKE) I tried was in test server where I was able to substain the combined attack of a Nighthawk and a Vagabond.
Still, I was able to tank and discourage one developer with its nighthawk armed with T2 heavy assault missiles.
Full passive setup :
H:
7x Arbalest heavy launcher (I don't have ham in test server)
M:
3x Large Shield Extender II
1x shield recharger II
1x magnetic amplifier II **
1x thermal amplifier II **
L:
3x Shield Power Relay
1x Power Diagnostic System II
Rigs
3x Shield power surge (I don't remember the name, the rigs that cut 20% shield recharge rate)
17.746 hp
246 sec full recharge
** The mixed active / passive sees 2x Invulnerable II instead of the 2 passive amplifiers. I had to set to full passive because of the fun warfare on singularity... in normal situations the 2 inv II are clearly better.
No Cruiser/BC in 1 on 1 could break my tank, no HAC or Command. Still, uber low dps with tech 1 heavy missiles, but my fault is that I didn't skill on test server for MONTHS.
--
Another one bites the dust! |
Narusegawa Naru
Gallente
The Nest
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.19 11:06:00 -
[462]
Edited by: Narusegawa Naru on 19/01/2007 11:04:50
Edited by: Narusegawa Naru on 19/01/2007 11:03:54
I think Pottsey should write a new passive shield tanking guide in a new thread. :-D Updated with recent changes and what not. :-) As this is now over a 2 year old thread.
Edit: And omg I only just realized how our forum portraits are VERY close. I've changed my ingame since, but OMG Pottsey is my long long twin!
Edit2: And just as I edit that they've just updated the portraits! Boooo bad timing
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Carita Cartwright
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Posted - 2007.01.19 11:37:00 -
[463]
Using this on my Drake
HIGH
7x Heavy launchers
MED
2x large extenders II
2x resistance amps EM/KEN
2x hardeners EM/THERM
LOW
1x dmg control
2x BCU II
1x shield power relay
I got all but launchers tech II
Gives 75%+ to all resists with BC skill lvl 4 and a nice regen, with rigs even better
able to solo lvl 4 missions with good enough skills
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.01.19 12:54:00 -
[464]
I have been thinking about making a new thread, as I can no longer edit the first posts without losing half the text. But if I did I would want a website to go with it and thatÆs something I havenÆt got time to do. I have hosting and can deal with the uploading of files but has anyone got time and willing to run a webpage for me?
I need to focus my ideas a little more but I was thinking along the lines of a new thread with how to passive tank linking to a website with various passive tank resourceÆs, ship setups perhaps with a database of fit/setups.
WhatÆs preferred a new thread or just keep using this one going? If anyone has ideas or things they went to see in a new thread or website please eve mail me or Email at [email protected]. If you want to run part or all the a passive tanking website that would be great as well.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Rik'tik'ticheck
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Posted - 2007.02.10 11:21:00 -
[465]
I just brought a rupture and made it into a passive tank and even with my crappy shield skills and only using non named T1 stuff it turned out allright =)
3x 650mm atry
3x assault launcher
1x web
2x Large extender 1
5x Shield power relay 1
with this and with my shield op at 3 and management at 1 i still have a peak regen of ~40/s wich is good for a cruiser atleast taking into account the low skills / crap mods =) the web can also be changed to a hardener for difficult missions with my current skills though (no advanced weapon uppgrades and shield uppgrades at 3) i can't fir a 3rd extender, and the web is good to have, so i can hit the closer targets with my arties
in this setup basically only the web uses any cap, so an invu field for res instead of web works just fine, aslong as you do tur it off when no longer needed i guess =)
well iwas not compleately new to passive tanking though i had a passive tanked rifter before this cruiser and it can do all L2 missions, just that this has more range and damage, and i am lazy =9
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Gobblock
Gobbatron's cloning vats
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Posted - 2007.02.11 19:37:00 -
[466]
honestly, your quality of work deserves a website.
not that the thread should die, but your raw research data, so to speak, would be alot more fitting in a website.
just my .02isk
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.02.11 19:48:00 -
[467]
The problem is time or lack of it. I have often thought about updating this thread and making a website perhaps in the summer holidays.
For those who are not aware Shield Relays T2 and Shield Flux T2 modules are on the market.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
D'Ken Neramani
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Posted - 2007.02.14 20:05:00 -
[468]
Edited by: D''Ken Neramani on 14/02/2007 20:03:34
Thanks for a well thought-out guide. I'm more industry-biased than battle-biased, but I did the bonus room last night (Angel Extravaganza lvl 3) with my Drake pretty much by myself. I had one corpmate with an assault frig, mainly for Angel frigs.
I tanked the 2 BSes, 9-10 BCs, Sentry III and multiple frigs with 15.8k shields, all passive shield resist skills at 3, BC at 3, 3 best named t1 large exts, therm and kin t2 passive resisters and a t1 invul shield. Had 3 PDS and a t1 shield power relay in the lows. All other shield skills at 4, too.
I got a bit hairy for a bit till we slayed a few BCs... once it was down to 2 BCs and the 2 BSes I had positive gains overall till 12.5k shields.
I tried passive tanking in a Caracal before I read the guide here and before I had a very knowledgeable friend help me out... and lost my Caracal in spectacularly noobish fashion.
Thanks again for your insight! |
Sadao
Minmatar
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.02.20 23:36:00 -
[469]
Posting in a truly epic thread.
Awsome stuff here Potsey.
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Rik'tik'ticheck
Minmatar
Isendeldik Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.02.22 01:01:00 -
[470]
Well as people have been asking about totally passive setup vs PDS+SB active/passive builds i decided to check things out
so i brought myself a rifter and firstly fitted it with a named med extender and the 3 SPR I in lows, as i am now at work don't remember exactly the numbers but with my meager skills the sweet spot regen was about 12.5/s - so about a small named SB, worked fine to me before.
so i swap out the SPR for PDS I and add a SB so the passive regen goes down to about 9.5/s wich is an about 25% drop, and wich is about what you all have found , PDS are clearly slower on regen than SPR, but wait now when boosting with let's say the 12.5/s SB (small neutron saturation i think is close to that) and the total regen is about 20/s, wich is quite alot better than the SPR passive one. I also decided to fit a NOS instead of the missile to be able to boost for longer times if necessary.
then i went to test if indeed this had helped, off to do a L3 mission - can't remember wich one though - and i spotted a 3 cruiser group two of wich were missile boats.
my setup was as follows:
High 3x125mm AC II, named nos
Med AB, named SB (could aswell be SB II), named Med Ext
Lows 3x PDS I
and i used Proton ammo as we had 10k unused in corp hangar (so not even good on damage).
So as i was saying i charged the cruisers, at 25km or so i get hit by wolleys of kinetik heavy missiles and some turret fire, as i close in i let shields fall to about 50% and used booster to keep them around that mark. Turns out that even if i was down to 20 or so shield % at times i had no real problems with them and i could run the SB almost as much as i wanted (raising cap skills will help). so i pop the cruisers and get a warm feeling inside, as i know missiles are a bi**h for frigs and me being a bit over a month old lacking alot in skills.
so to summarise: the active passive build works on frig sized vessels because of the recharge timer being smaller, and most frigates only being able to fit a single med extender, also the frigates having a small number of lows (well slots in general) thus the differenses between SPR and PDS remain small even if precentually large.
but if you do this to a cruiser you'll find that it always pays to fit one more large extender =), also this is because a half deacent cruiser will regen 60+/s and a med SB is only 20/s usually the number of SPR changed to PDS will drop the regen by more that the SB improves it.
ofcourse going up to BS will just make matters worse on this front.
Now all you PvE guys can fit your frigates with a combo regen =), PvP could be tried, but 2 mid slots for hp will make it hard as is with most shield tanks.
i know testing the setup vs some rats is no real proof, exept for PvE angle, but i'll be posting when i get up to the task of doing more L3 and maby late L4 in frigates - gonna have a Jaguar to pilot in about 3 days i think it was gonna use same setup and adding a web =)
well back to you later if i can do some nasty missions
-------
Well atleast you don't have to type that name for invites or coms.....
My buddies loved me in EQ2 i can tell you... |
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Rik'tik'ticheck
Minmatar
Isendeldik Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.02.22 21:20:00 -
[471]
Well i did some calculating after previous post and came to the conclusion, that minmatar assaulships can fit 2 extenders, so i did some math on the subject. as a disclaimer the jaguar is using f-s9 regolith extenders because of power grid issues, while wolf having more grid and no other mid slots to fill uses ME II, also in the passive/active setup jaguar usesstill the same extenders, as it frees just enough grid to fit an AB. Also using L4 on shield op and shield uppgrades.
Jaguar passive
2x f-s9 regolith (900) + shields (633*1.2=759.6) = 2559.6
3x SPR I -> 625*0.8^3*0.8=256
so 2559.6/256=9.998, well basically 10 and sweet spot regen is ~25(24,996)/s
Jaguar Passive/active (as a note the standard launcher was echanged for a named nos)
2x f-s9 regolith (900) + (759.6*1.04^3=854.4466) = 2654.4466
3x PDS I -> 625*0.925^3*0.8=395.72656
so 2654.4466/395.72656=6.70777 and best is 16.769.
when added to this a c5-l emergency overload (24/1.6s=15/s) we get 31.769 wich is till an improvement, although we are loosing a weapon slot, we are gaining an AB to the fir aswell, so i would go with the latter.
for comparison Wolf Passive
2x ME II (1050) + (422*1.2=506.4) = 2606.4
4x SPR I -> 625*0.8^4*0.8=204.8
so 2606.4/204.8=12.72656 and best 31.816
wich leaves at par with the passive/active jaguar build without the AB it has but a standard missile launcher and a 125mm AC more in fire power
neighter build counted rigs in the mix
2 rigs gets us the regen times of
Jaguar(P/A)=230.2249 so 2654.4466/230.2249 = 11.538 -> 28,846(+15) = 43.846/s
Wolf=130.944 so 2606.4/130.944 = 19.897 -> 49.742/s
so wolf wins out on the rig updating aswell, but is basically just weapons with a big regening shield, jaguar having AB for high speed and nossing opponent, with much less damage though
didn't calculate an P/A build for wolf as I honestly see no reason to
well this tells us that even with 2 ME the P/A build is more regen on a frigate (wolf having more lows makes for better total though)
-------
Well atleast you don't have to type that name for invites or coms.....
My buddies loved me in EQ2 i can tell you... |
JuQuan
Rakeriku
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2007.03.03 11:41:00 -
[472]
Can someone check my maths on this one? I've just run some numbers for a maxxed out passive tanking Machariel and I frankly can't believe it...
Mach base shields:
9,735hp & 2,500 second regen.
With max skills, 10% gang member bonus, 5% implants:
14,054.91hp & 1,781.25 regen.
2x Large Extender II's + 7x Shield Power Relay II's + 3x purger II rigs:
21,634.59hp & 110.0535 regen.
That's 491.4563 hp/s peak recharge?!?!?!
Since this ship now has zero cap whatsoever we'll use 3x max skill T2 shield resistance amps (EM/kin/Therm) combined with a gang mate in a vulture with a shield harmonizing link, max skills and a mindlink to boot...
Resistances:
EM: 58.828%
Exp: 70.352%
Kin: 75.2968%
Therm: 67.0624%
That's a tank capable of holding up to a staggering 1,193.666 pure EM damage per second... oh and it's NOS immune.
That simply doesn't feel right. I know it's a faction ship, I know it wont be able to warp anywhere far and I know it's some seriously pimped out skills... but christ that's nuts! I can't help but feel like I'm wrong.
Just wondering if a faction fitted Maelstrom pimped out & with the same gang mate can beat it?
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.03.03 12:06:00 -
[473]
Edited by: Pottsey on 03/03/2007 12:04:26
Did you factor in 15% from mindlink? As you wrote 10% and later on mentioned mindlink.
EDIT: Try running the numbers with 1 invul field, 2 extra shield extenders, no passive hardners and 1 PDS over 1 relay. No longer Nos immune but it might make a better tank if your PvEing.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
JuQuan
Rakeriku
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2007.03.03 12:26:00 -
[474]
From gang I used 25.88% resistance bonus from the gang member (stacking where applicable) and I used 10% bonus to shield HP from the shield warfare skill. Does the mindlink increase that to 15%?
With an invul II, 2 more extender II's and one PDU II for a SPR II...
29,917.03 hitpoints
118.0179 recharge
633.7393 hp/s recharge!
Resistances
EM: 45.745%
Exp: 78.298%
Kin: 67.447%
Therm: 56.596%
1,168.075 dps on EM tankable.
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.03.03 13:37:00 -
[475]
Mindlink gives a 15% hitpoint bonus but it doesnÆt stack with the gang skill so it only ends up at 5% extra.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.03.03 16:36:00 -
[476]
Edited by: Zalathar on 03/03/2007 16:39:54
thx for this guide, using what i found in it a created a scorpion on quick fit which has 20569 shield HP and a recharge rate of about 217 seconds, which results in a peak recharge of:
186 HP PER SECOND!!
i also created a mach with 282 max recharge on 18k shields.
Ty so much for making this thread.
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VaderDSL
Caldari
Orcus Inferno
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Posted - 2007.03.03 16:47:00 -
[477]
Edited by: VaderDSL on 03/03/2007 16:46:48
Edited by: VaderDSL on 03/03/2007 16:45:43
Edited by: VaderDSL on 03/03/2007 16:44:41
I've used this setup in lvl 4 guristas missions when I was bored :
Vulture
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Power Diagnostic System II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Rigs : Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \
22096 shield, 229.22/s, E/T/K/Ex=25/93/89/69
With the warfare link I get over 91% kinetic and over 94% thermal.
Will tank all aggro from any lvl 4 guristas mission I think (not done them all) plus my friends will usually have shield rep drones too.
Without the NOS the cap stabilises around 40% with the 2 hardeners and the gang warfare link.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.03.03 19:02:00 -
[478]
Vader, if you have the skills for a NH, I'd suggest using that. Even without any SPRs, and only using t1 PDUs, and 2 shield regen rigs, you can get around 100 shields/sec peak in a gang with un-maxxed skills, you should be able to fit the harmonizing link as well but you won't need it tbh.
Also, on a NH or Vulture, I'd say go with 2x kin not 1x kin 1x therm, because the large majority of dmg they do is kinetic, and your thermal resist are more than high enough to begin with.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Kailiani
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Posted - 2007.03.03 19:25:00 -
[479]
Some of these setups are crazy!! I mean some people are going for 12398 shield/sec... waste of dmg mods in both pve and pvp.... your just going to get taken down last if you try to pvp in gangs like that, and your damage will suck!!... maybe useful for taking out cruisers but your DPS will be way too low to take out another battlecruiser...
my drake can sit and tank lvl 3 blockade with little over 100 shield/sec.. no reason for anymore unless your doing level 4's!!
I use on every level 3 except blockade:
7 arbalest launchers, tractor
1 afterburner, 2 shield extender, 3 invuln fields
3 BCU, 1 shield relay
for blockade with this setup you can do it under 30 minutes without warping out...
7 arby heavies, tractor
3 shield ext, 2 therm/1 kin
3 bcu, 1 shield relay
for pvp... best to have a gang to tackle:
7 heavy launchers, 1 med nos if u got the power
3 shield ext, 3 passive amps or 2 passive and 1 invuln
2 bcu, 2 relay
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Pusspuss
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Posted - 2007.03.05 12:04:00 -
[480]
I am inclined to agree about overdoing the tank. Now with T2 SPRs floating around the market my hurricane can tank about 600 d/s on it's weakest resist of 30% (em) and over 1500 d/s with explosive. But I can clear any level 4 mission with half that.
So for ubertank on the 'cane:
Rigs: field purgers x3
Lows: 5 T2 SPRs and 1 T2 PDS
Med: 3 T2 large extenders and a T2 invuln.
High: 6 T2 arty and a couple of standard launchers
while the ship is hard to break tank it is slow and inflicts relatively low d/s.
As such, best hurricane setup for pve I have found so far is:
Rigs: 3x field purger
Low: 3 or 4 T2 SPRs 1 or 2 T2 gyros and a T2 PDS
Med: 2 or 3 T2 large extender and a T2 10mn afterburner and possibly a high end webber if you drop out the third extender (in which case you can probably drop out the lo-slot T2 pds for an extra t2 spr)
highs: as before but with 50%+ extra damage and the ability to get into the range of just about anything.
This setup easily breaks hoborak moon's shield tank and I can normally take him out in a minute or two. With just the one gyro and 3 extenders I have never had to warp out of a level 4 mission due to damage being taken (including bonus levels of missions like angel extravaganza).
The only times I have had to warp out were when my ship wasn't fast enough or tracking wasn't fast enough or my rate of fire wasn't fast enough to tackle specific situations.
Still trying to figure out a good PVP passive setup for the hurricane as you can have no more than 2 out of the 3 essential pvp mids- webber or warp disruptor or mwd... without your tank starting to get a bit flimsy.
But yes, overtanking, while tempting, becomes a pve barrier, meaning it level 4s take twice as long as with a just tanked enough setup with great speed and damage.
I hate those bloody angel vipers and webifiers, but this setup makes mincemeat of them if you add in a webber (my drone skills suck).
BTW, I am assuming people have at least level 4 or 5 for all applicable skills and they have invested in a few cheap implants to improve shields, damage, etc.
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Pusspuss
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Posted - 2007.03.05 12:11:00 -
[481]
Also, Kailiani's pvp drake setup looks very weak to me. Totally reliant on other people to tackle, no speed to break out of hostile warp disruption fields or bubbles and just a lot of missiles and shields... It's weak.
Yeah, you need a decent tank, but speed and tackle ability are just as important in pvp situations.
(BTW this character is my unused alt, my primary is a veteran pvper).
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2007.03.05 12:33:00 -
[482]
Yes yes, very nice to play Caldari-Online (aka. shields galore) but where is my passive ARMOR tank that will repair itself over time? Wait, there is none! Run for the hills! NERF ARMOR TANKS MORE! YAY! .. whatever. Crappy game.
"Sadly this is the only game I've ever played that encourages and rewards people for being jerks and penalizes people that don't" -Forum Alt |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.05 13:34:00 -
[483]
Originally by: Pusspuss
Also, Kailiani's pvp drake setup looks very weak to me. Totally reliant on other people to tackle, no speed to break out of hostile warp disruption fields or bubbles and just a lot of missiles and shields... It's weak.
Yeah, you need a decent tank, but speed and tackle ability are just as important in pvp situations.
(BTW this character is my unused alt, my primary is a veteran pvper).
It depends.. on MY point of view tackling should never be done by a BC or BB. Its a wastage to make a big ship do the work a small one could do.
If you want to make asolo setup you WILL have a LESS powerfull setup... its a trade off. In a gang big ships should kick ass and be a tough nut to break.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Thu
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Posted - 2007.03.05 14:33:00 -
[484]
Originally by: Pottsey
I have been thinking about making a new thread, as I can no longer edit the first posts without losing half the text. But if I did I would want a website to go with it and thatÆs something I havenÆt got time to do. I have hosting and can deal with the uploading of files but has anyone got time and willing to run a webpage for me?
I need to focus my ideas a little more but I was thinking along the lines of a new thread with how to passive tank linking to a website with various passive tank resourceÆs, ship setups perhaps with a database of fit/setups.
WhatÆs preferred a new thread or just keep using this one going? If anyone has ideas or things they went to see in a new thread or website please eve mail me or Email at [email protected]. If you want to run part or all the a passive tanking website that would be great as well.
Set up a blog. Takes minutes, costs nada and provides most of the functionality you need. It also fits, considering that what you do here is pretty much a blog about passive shield tanks.
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Bazan Kor
STK Scientific
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.03.28 10:42:00 -
[485]
Slight necro here but ive been playing with a domi passive tank and was hoping for some feed back.
Dominix
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
350mm Railgun II [80xAntimatter Charge L]
350mm Railgun II [80xAntimatter Charge L]
350mm Railgun II [80xAntimatter Charge L]
350mm Railgun II [80xAntimatter Charge L]
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Power Diagnostic System II
Rigs : Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \
16112 shield, 128.87/s, E/T/K/Ex=51/61/71/80
7763 armor, E/T/K/Ex=65/44/44/23
6299.999713897705 cap, +6.23/s, -21.55/s
This would be for PVP and possible pve, switch out the rails for salvagers etc. I realise im mixing close range nos with rails but without a mwd or a web I cant see blasters working, I hope the drones will do some good and that the 350mms will track enough. Ive never tried to shield tank before, let alone passive so any input would be good. Ive tried to follow setups from this thread as best I can.
Thanks in advance, B
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:17:00 -
[486]
I would be tempted to try a number of changeÆs. swap 1 invul field for a microwarp or AB. Swap all the SPRÆs for PDS. Either swap the 350mm turrets for 450mm or my preferred method is fit 4 or 5 cap Neats and 1 or 2 Nos. I killed many a ship with cap neats over Nos.
This setup is also much cheaper then your SPR T2 setup but it has a weaker regen tank. The idea is you get in close fast drain there cap and rely on the high hitpoints. For PvP I would also be tempted to use extender rigs over purger but then again rigs cost a lot for Pvp.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Kaylee Kaitlen
Gallente
Phoenix Wing
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Posted - 2007.03.29 19:55:00 -
[487]
Edited by: Kaylee Kaitlen on 29/03/2007 19:53:00
Originally by: Pottsey
This setup is also much cheaper then your SPR T2 setup ...
For those of you previously unable or unwilling to spend the ISK for SPR II's (such as myself), they are currently selling below 10mil in The Forge(whereas before they were over 20mil).
I used to really have to watch aggro with SPR I's, but it looks like replacing them with SPR's will be about an extra 20% recharge total, so I'm hoping for a lot more tanking ability now!
Damage is king, Speed kills, Style is everything
Burn with passion, Kill with rage, Live with hope, Die with honor |
Dice Mann
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Posted - 2007.04.03 22:00:00 -
[488]
Awesome thread - have spent the last few days learning about passive tanking since getting my ass kicked by *another* NOS domi...
One question though for Pottsey or however: which ship (ignoring faction ships) actually has the best passive tank in eve when appropriately fitted? The Eos? the Nighthawk?
Thanks |
Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.04.03 22:27:00 -
[489]
There is no best ship. Which is best all depends on the ship job and the pilots job.
Personally I like the Eos and Domi as both are flexible with good DPS output and I have a soft spot for drones. Ignoring everything apart from tanking and its still not clear as ship A might tank EM best while ship B weakest resistance is a better tank then ship AÆs weakest resistance.
For example ship A might tank say 500dps on EM but only 300 on Thermal. Ship B might be 400 on EM but also 400 on Thermal. Which is best?
There are just too many factors to say 1 ship is the best and rules them all. You can start picking out the ship with the best HP regen, resistance, hitpoints or shield recharge but once you start factoring in gang mates, damage and none tanking modules everyone comes up with a different best ship.
Kaylee Kaitlen thanks for the SPR T2 price update didnÆt realise they got that cheap.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
The Tzar
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Posted - 2007.05.03 12:34:00 -
[490]
\Great work on the shield math Pottsey.
Tried the max passive shield setup for my latest
Caldari missile platform; The Drake...
Highs = 7 x T1 Heavy Launchers
Mids = 2 x Large Azeotropic Shield Extenders
4 x T1 Shield Rechargers
Lows = 4 x T1 Shield Relays
Relatively easy/cheap to find and fit parts but the shield regen is ****-take, something like 10,000 shields that regen in 280s = 35/s..., which at max regen rate is just under 90 shield points per second for zero cap usage.
Any comments/improvemnts? (will T2 stuff when skilled)
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WredStorm
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2007.05.03 13:30:00 -
[491]
Originally by: The Tzar
\Great work on the shield math Pottsey.
Tried the max passive shield setup for my latest
Caldari missile platform; The Drake...
Highs = 7 x T1 Heavy Launchers
Mids = 2 x Large Azeotropic Shield Extenders
4 x T1 Shield Rechargers
Lows = 4 x T1 Shield Relays
Relatively easy/cheap to find and fit parts but the shield regen is ****-take, something like 10,000 shields that regen in 280s = 35/s..., which at max regen rate is just under 90 shield points per second for zero cap usage.
Any comments/improvemnts? (will T2 stuff when skilled)
Play around with the mid-slots. There is a break point where its more useful to go with shield rechargers instead of large shield extenders, but I suspect you haven't hit that point yet and would be better off with more shield extenders. Use QuickFit to play around with test setups without having to actually spend any ISK on buying items. And yes, tech II (and rigs) as soon as you can... it makes a huge difference, trust me. :)
Wred
-----
Think out of the box, consider passive shield tanking your Myrmidon, you'll be pleasantly surprised! |
Phionna Var
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Posted - 2007.05.08 07:53:00 -
[492]
So have gate pirates got you down? Afraid to fly your little indy anywhere for fear of it getting blown up? Fear no more passive shield recharge is here!
Iteron V
Medium Shield Extender II X4
Shield Recharger II X1
Shield Power Relay II X5
Core Defense Field Purger II X3
That comes out to a base of about 5400 shields and 115/sec which means a peak of about 300/sec
Granted the Billion isk you spend on the purgers could have bought you a Freighter ... but its funny to have the invinci-Iteron |
Illsauros
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Posted - 2007.05.11 02:41:00 -
[493]
My passive shield tanking setup
I'm fairly new, had about 20M isk and 1.5M sp so here is what I came up with. Let me know what you think:
Moa
4x 150mm dual railguns
1x Heavy missile launcher
1x Tractor beam
4x Large shield extender
4x shield power relay
Shield regen 53.1 hp/s
Shield strength 11952 with current skills (in a cruiser!)
My average tankable dps with resists is around 115 hp/s
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Dark Kavar
Caldari
Aionios Diadochi
The Makhai
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Posted - 2007.05.11 02:49:00 -
[494]
Originally by: Illsauros
My passive shield tanking setup
I'm fairly new, had about 20M isk and 1.5M sp so here is what I came up with. Let me know what you think:
Moa
4x 150mm dual railguns
1x Heavy missile launcher
1x Tractor beam
4x Large shield extender
4x shield power relay
Shield regen 53.1 hp/s
Shield strength 11952 with current skills (in a cruiser!)
My average tankable dps with resists is around 115 hp/s
When you put on shield power relays you have to remember how much they nerf your cap regen, so with 4 rail guns going.... well they won't be going for long. And can you even fit all that? I think the 4 extenders would eat up your powergrid pretty quickly. The moa becuase it is focused towards cap intensive weapons (yes rails eat cap like crazy) and it's base cap regen isn't good to begin with (can't even run 2-3 hardeners and all guns constantly) isn't the best ship to be passive tanking. If you want to try passive tanking a cruiser try the caracal, it makes an ok passive tank, but don't expect drake type tanking from it.
Kind of like the Triforce in Zelda, only not quite as potent.
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Illsauros
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Posted - 2007.05.11 19:48:00 -
[495]
So far it's working great, had 7 frigates and a cruiser beating on me last night and they couldn't even make a dent. PvE wise the cap recharge isn't a problem, for PvP Swapping in one or two PDUs instead of relays would probably be better. I'm mostly using the ship for ratting/complexes/missions right now though so it's no big deal. The tractor beam isn't quite as cool as I was hoping for, and I'm considering swapping it out.
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El'Tar
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:16:00 -
[496]
Edited by: El''Tar on 14/05/2007 12:14:23
Gila
4 HML II 2 dual 150mm II
3 LSE II 1 invul II 1 warp disruptor II
4 shield power relay II
3 purger rigs
Perma tanks sentries on a round 60%
Drake
7HML II 1 small nos (Need awu 5)
3 LSE II 1 invul II 1 shield recharger II 1 warp disruptor II
4 shield power relay II
3 Purger rigs
Perma tanks sentries on around 80-85%
Myrmiddon
6 200mm railgun II's ( would use 6 650mm artillery II if i could use them, but cap isn't an issue, unless being nossed which is likely)
Actually thinking of putting 6 medium nos in highs, or a mix of nos + rails/blasters in highs.
3 LSE II 1 invul II 1 warp disruptor II
6 shield power relay II
3 purger rigs
5 garde I's
Tanks sentries forever at 80-85%, and a lot more dps than the drake, (around 500 with my skills)
Caldari Navy hookbill, fast locker at gate camps
2 Medium shield extender (best named) 1 warp disruptor II, 1 sensor booster
3 shield power relay II
3 extender rigs
gives around 6.7k shields i think with peak recharge of around 80
Killboard
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Hellman109
Gallente
Magnetar Ltd
Dark Synergy
|
Posted - 2007.05.14 13:37:00 -
[497]
Originally by: El'Tar
Myrmiddon
6 200mm railgun II's ( would use 6 650mm artillery II if i could use them, but cap isn't an issue, unless being nossed which is likely)
Actually thinking of putting 6 medium nos in highs, or a mix of nos + rails/blasters in highs.
3 LSE II 1 invul II 1 warp disruptor II
6 shield power relay II
3 purger rigs
5 garde I's
Tanks sentries forever at 80-85%, and a lot more dps than the drake, (around 500 with my skills)
Thats no where near fitting on my character... way too little powergrid... Even 200mm rail I's I still cant fit all 6 guns... super high level tank?
If so, what could a low (1.6mil) SP char look to fit?
Im willing to train a bit, but considering Im about 400PG too little for that setup, unless theres a skill that will really help with the PG in that fitout...
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.05.14 17:03:00 -
[498]
Well I had planed to get the rewrite of this guide done weeks ago. Looks like its going be weeks more at the earliest. I havenÆt given up yet and there will be an update this year. So keep posting suggestion and things you want to see.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Hellman109
Gallente
Magnetar Ltd
Dark Synergy
|
Posted - 2007.05.15 01:00:00 -
[499]
Originally by: Pottsey
I havenÆt given up yet and there will be an update this year. So keep posting suggestion and things you want to see.
Excellent I look forward to it :D
As to what I want to see:
Skill requirements with different fitouts (just the top level ones, EG Gallente BC 4, not space command 3, cruiser 2, BC4, etc.)
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Nonym Ous
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Posted - 2007.05.15 01:31:00 -
[500]
Originally by: Hellman109
Originally by: El'Tar
Myrmiddon
6 200mm railgun II's ( would use 6 650mm artillery II if i could use them, but cap isn't an issue, unless being nossed which is likely)
Actually thinking of putting 6 medium nos in highs, or a mix of nos + rails/blasters in highs.
3 LSE II 1 invul II 1 warp disruptor II
6 shield power relay II
3 purger rigs
5 garde I's
Tanks sentries forever at 80-85%, and a lot more dps than the drake, (around 500 with my skills)
Thats no where near fitting on my character... way too little powergrid... Even 200mm rail I's I still cant fit all 6 guns... super high level tank?
If so, what could a low (1.6mil) SP char look to fit?
Im willing to train a bit, but considering Im about 400PG too little for that setup, unless theres a skill that will really help with the PG in that fitout...
At 1.6M skillpoints you really shouldn't be trying to fly a myrmidon. Stick to frigates and cruisers for now while you train learning skills and fitting skills. Engineering gives +5% powergrid per level, Electronics gives +5% CPU per level, and there are all kinds of skills that decrease grid and CPU needs of various mods (most importantly Weapon Upgrades and Advanced Weapon Upgrades).
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Ryouka Acoma
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Posted - 2007.05.16 08:21:00 -
[501]
Excellent thread Pottsey! I read this thread when I first started playing, and again recently now that I have decent skills and money to deck out a Drake with tech2 and rigs etc.
I noticed you are talking about redo-ing this guide as a thread or a website. My two cents is make a new thread and start it with some posts that can also work as a standalone guide. Starting with basic passive shield tank theory then useful modules, rigs and implants, example setups for popular ships, and formulas to determine fitting other ships for max recharge rate (shield extenders vs rechargers etc).
I hope you do write a new guide soon, much has changed since you wrote the first version, passive shield tanking deserves a newer, more concise guide and you are clearly the best person to write it. I'd love to help but I wouldn't dare write a guide by myself, this is your work.
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Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.16 10:18:00 -
[502]
Originally by: Nonym Ous
At 1.6M skillpoints you really shouldn't be trying to fly a myrmidon. Stick to frigates and cruisers for now while you train learning skills and fitting skills. Engineering gives +5% powergrid per level, Electronics gives +5% CPU per level, and there are all kinds of skills that decrease grid and CPU needs of various mods (most importantly Weapon Upgrades and Advanced Weapon Upgrades).
Well the good thing about drone ships is you can leave the highslots empty and still do nice damage. Without a full rack of medium guns they are very easy to fit, so they are quite friendly for low sp characters.
__________
If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.05.16 11:48:00 -
[503]
Originally by: Pottsey
Well I had planed to get the rewrite of this guide done weeks ago. Looks like its going be weeks more at the earliest. I haven’t given up yet and there will be an update this year. So keep posting suggestion and things you want to see.
Should probably wait until after Rev 2.0 is out anyway, as it seems battlecruisers get a slight passive shieldtank nerf (their base recharge time is being increased from 1250 to 1400 seconds), and no idea how command ships will be changed, if at all.
_
MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.05.16 12:13:00 -
[504]
Edited by: Pottsey on 16/05/2007 12:12:18
Good point about Revelations 2.0. Will start writing/try and finish the guide but wont publish it till then after Rev 2 comes out. So I can write in any new info.
Command ships are not being changed at this point.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=520425
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Michael Shadowstorm
New Light
KnightRaven Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:12:00 -
[505]
Edited by: Michael Shadowstorm on 30/07/2007 16:12:33
Well, I didn't actually read through all the pages, so I might have missed something.
Anyway, I thought that since this is a thread for passive tanking, I'd share my drake setup :)
It's actually very effective :P
Highs:
7 'Arbalest' Heavy Launchers
1 Salvager (I know, not very useful in a drake, but I had to put something there)
Meds:
3 Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1 Supplemental Screen Generator I
2 named active hardeners, depending on what you fight
Lows:
2 named Shield power relays
2 PDS (I need them to fit it all..)
I get 15806 shield hp and 539 sec recharge.
That'd mean around 73.3hp / second recharge at around 30% shields left. That's a bit better than a T2 large shield booster.
Permatanks any Guristas spawn at 80%, atleast in the area that I'm in.
-------------------
Almost perfect..
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Knave DesOmbres
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Posted - 2007.08.02 14:15:00 -
[506]
Dont know if you have a Hurricane setup in your data, only read the 1st 8 pages. Here's mine:
Max Shields : 13952
Max Regen: 101.28 / sec ( approx )
Max Cap Regen : 3.61 / sec ( approx )
PG: 2051.5 of 2053.96
CPU: 304.9 or 480
Fit:
Rig : EM II, Therm II, Curent Router II
High: Dual 425 AC, 2x 220 Scout AC, 2x Dual 180 Scout AC, Small Tractor, 2x Salvager
Med: 3x L F-S9 Ext, Y-S8 AB
Low: 4x Relay I, 2x Beta Reactor Control: DS 1
I wanted the Large AC .. dropping it for all 425 Scout AC's Lets you drop the power rig, and swap the BRCs for 2 more Relays, gives you 12704 max with 121.2 /sec max regen, and leaving you with 478 PG and 193 CPU to spare.
Shield resists are: 35 EM, 60 Exp, 40 Kin, 48 Therm with the listed shield rigs.
Skills to fit:
Shield Upgrades 3
Energy Grid Upgrades 2
Jury Rigging 3 & Shield Rigging 4( for the rigs obviously )
Engineering 4
Other Related Skills:
Shield Management 3
Shield Operation 4
Hope this helps the cause ... ive been using a passive shield tank since day 1, 1st on my Rifter, and now on the Hurry
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Knave DesOmbres
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Posted - 2007.08.02 15:18:00 -
[507]
Edited by: Knave DesOmbres on 02/08/2007 15:24:00
In response to a newbie frig setup:
Rifter ( 3 mid 3 low )
Minimum skills required to fit :
Engi, Shield Man, Shield Oper & Shield Uprgrades at 3
All other skills set to 0
Using only T1 modules ( cheap setup )
High : 3x 150 AC's
Mid : Med Ext, Small Ext, 1MN AB
Low : 3x SPR 1's
Max Shields : 1528
Max Regen : 14 / sec
AB runs for 3 mins 31 sec before capping out.
Total Training time < 1 day for the skills required to fit assuming balanced stats of 8 across the board, starting from 0 skill level, and including the basic nav, frig, etc skills needed to pilot.
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La Verdad
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Posted - 2007.08.17 18:53:00 -
[508]
Just throwin this out there...
i got 160 hp/s on just a ferox w/ this:
2 LSE 2's
3 Shield Recharger 2's
4 Shield Power Relay 1's (not t2 yet)
and only 2 t1 recharger rigs
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Thorek Ironbrow
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Posted - 2007.08.17 22:22:00 -
[509]
Nooby question I guess but... Could you passive tank with a Cormorant?
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Kldraina
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Posted - 2007.08.17 23:04:00 -
[510]
The shield recharge time rigs are better than resistance rigs for passive shield tanking. |
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Deadly Morph
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Posted - 2007.08.29 13:18:00 -
[511]
If u dont mind...
Can u pls send me a good setup for a drake and raven setup for pvping and rating pls
Send eve-mail to : Deadly Morph
Deadly Morph
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Altaica Amur
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Posted - 2007.09.01 07:53:00 -
[512]
I've always had a lot of fun with a passively tanked Caracal setup with a PDS and a power relay in the lows an AB 3 passive hardeners and the piece de resistance the large shield expander that makes it all possible. Heavy missiles in hi slots of course.
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Thorek Ironbrow
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Posted - 2007.09.01 20:43:00 -
[513]
What about shield hardners/resistance amplifiers? Would it be good to just get some of those for each of the damage types so they can't damage you almost at all in the first place?
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port22
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.09.12 10:25:00 -
[514]
For my setups ive always gone by this theory:
Mids: Shield Extender II's and Resist's > Shield Rechargers
Lows: Shield Power Relay II's > *
Rigs: Field Purgers > Field Extenders/Resistance Rigs
This can obviously be tweaked to include more dps with dmg mods etc in lows. This is not law but is a good guide when tanking.
-port
Originally by: Temp Boi
Port FTMFW Period.
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CetusOfAsuran
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Posted - 2007.11.15 14:05:00 -
[515]
ok searched for help on shield tanking and wow did i find it, i didnt read all the way through as it seems the thread stalled a couple of years back until recent but there doesnt seem to be much coverage on rigs? is it better to use purgers over extenders? or something else?
anyhoo the setup i am looking at in about a week (when saved up enough) is as follows:
caldari Drake
hi slots consist of
3x tech2 heavy assault
2x tech2 heavy launchers
2x tech2 rockets
salvager
mid
2x tech2 large shield extenders
2x tech2 invulnerability field
10mn tech2 afterburner
tech2 shield recharger
low
2x tech2 power relays
2x tech2 pds
rigs
2x purger
1x extender
this gives me 14949hp with recharge rate of 279 which equates to 133hp/s at best.
Is this the best i could do? not sure about weapons exactly but like a bit of a mix. Any one done a similar setup as i said cant test yet as cant quite afford it but any suggestions are more than welcome.
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manasi
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.21 14:26:00 -
[516]
Surely this is one heck of a great post. This post was recommended by a friend and i out it through the EFT calculator to find the optimal setups for my cruiser and for the ferox/drake. In the calculations I did the drake setup mentioned on this page was 14538 shields, 52.5% EM resist, 24% therm, 43% kinetic, and 62% explosive..fairly decent stats IMO.
Any thoughts on this? I am fairly new back in the game again after a 3 YR hiatus and would like to know if this is an option for fleet PvP and mainly PvE...
Comments appreciated.
Everyone says I have a magnet attached to the front end of my ship...I do not....I just like ramming people |
Inculus
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Posted - 2007.12.17 12:19:00 -
[517]
My Drake passive tank build originally designed using EFT-
High:
7x Heavy Missile Launcher (Loaded with Scourge Missiles)
Medium:
3x Shield Recharger II
2x Large Shield Extender II
1x Invulnerability Field I
Low:
4x Shield Power Relay II
Rigs:
3x Core Defence Field Purger I
Stats:
Shield hp: 11791
Peak Shield hp recharge: 267hp/s
Max Tank time: 58m 13s
Shield Resists:
Em: 32.5%
Thermal: 46%
Kinetic: 59.5%
Explosive: 73%
Disclaimer:
I am a newb so this is a base setup which is relatively easy to attain and does not include max skills.
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Alitha Maru
Minmatar
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.12.17 14:07:00 -
[518]
Originally by: Inculus
My Drake passive tank build originally designed using EFT ...<snip>
The thing people tend to do is get a tank that's too much, overkill. Of course, depending on your skill, this setup is enough for most Gallente/Minmatar lvl4 missions for example:
High:
7 HML II (or best named)
Med:
2x LSE II
Heat Diss. Amp. II
Kinetic Def. Amp. II
2x Invul II
Low:
2x BCU II
2x SPR II
Rigs:
3x Purgers
This will give you good damage and good tank, that even holds AE bonus room. Though I some times use a third BCU II instead of a SPR II in the lows (not on AE bonus level though). There are many different setups that work, for the mid slot area. But the main thing is to have balance between damage and tank. No need to have too much tank.
Point is to take out as many cruisers fast to lessen the dps, then battle cruisers, then frigs and in the end battleships.
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Madman faith
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Posted - 2007.12.18 13:32:00 -
[519]
Edited by: Madman faith on 18/12/2007 13:33:16
pottsey, has there been any changes to fitting since the trinity update? all in all is this topic up to date?
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.12.18 15:22:00 -
[520]
ôpottsey, has there been any changes to fitting since the trinity update? all in all is this topic up to date?ö
Apart from overheating active hardeners and a few ship slot layout changeÆs I have not come across anything thatÆs changed.
Up-to-date not really. My guide update is what a year late now? Only the most recent pages of worth reading in this thread.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
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AvatarOfHope
Amarr
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2007.12.20 15:12:00 -
[521]
Hello pottsey... i saw you mentioning your hyperion passive ship... whats the ship setup? and can it handle all lvl 4 missions?
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.12.20 18:27:00 -
[522]
ôHello pottsey... i saw you mentioning your hyperion passive ship... whats the ship setup? and can it handle all lvl 4 missions?ö
No idea if it can handle all missions never tried. These days I spend most of my mission time in a gang My friend warps in and gets main aggro, I warp in and kill with just enough tank to handle aggro from single groups and new waves that warp in and target me.
I do have a solos setup but not done many missions with it.
Highs 8, 425mm railguns faction ammo
Mids,
X1 Webber T2,
X2 Large Extender T2
X1 Shield recharger T2
X1 Inful Field T2
Lows
3 damage mods, 3 PDS all T2
Rigs T1
Hybrid amin
Hybrid Burst
Metastasis
I much prefer the above over my Navy Mega.
As for solo replace the damage mods with SPRÆs at least one SPR has to be a beta SPR or you run out of CPU and the 3 rigs with purgers. Though I recommend a fake alt in your gang with mindlink.
With a gang bonus thatÆs a 417 DPS tank against serps T1 purgers or 506 with T2 with a 21k buffer. 248HP/s regen.
Damage wise it deals 424dps solo, 712DPS with the gang setup all without drones.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
AvatarOfHope
Amarr
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.01.03 11:12:00 -
[523]
Hello pottsey!
I have another request for you. Could you please tell me what would be the best Ishtar passive shield tanking setup? I tryed some but i belive you will hit the best one.
And thx for the hyperion setup.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.01.10 21:39:00 -
[524]
Mail me in game please or post the info I need here and mail me if I dont replay within 3 days. I need a list of what you want out the ship. what weapons, what type of PvE or PvP as much info as you can. Any must have none tanking modules? EG some people say an AB is a must. Need the tank to be cap immune? Fleet or small gangs? e.c.t
Its very hard to give the best (Insert ship name) setup without knowing more about what the ships main goals are. The tank I use in a Cosmos complex is very different from what I use in solo missions which again is different for what I use in group missions.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
STELLAR LEGION
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Posted - 2008.01.11 12:05:00 -
[525]
Hello potsey. Thanks for your great work. I'm very interested to see what you come up with the upgraded guide.
Btw. in one of your posts. I think it was about the strongest passive shield tank in game. You had aarived to a conclusion that moros is the strongest. How did you had that moros fitted ?
G.G
-RonP 2008- |
Zaerlorth Maelkor
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Posted - 2008.01.11 12:26:00 -
[526]
Originally by: CetusOfAsuran
caldari Drake
hi slots consist of
3x tech2 heavy assault
2x tech2 heavy launchers
2x tech2 rockets
salvager
What's the idea with this mixed weaponry?
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.01.12 15:18:00 -
[527]
ôI'm very interested to see what you come up with the upgraded guide.ö
Sort of burnt out with Eve lost all motivation to finish it. Its half done neatly and half done in note form. No idea when it will be ready. It would help if people would write a few sections or finish one of my unfinished sections. As for your question I think the setup I used before was
7 SPRÆs T2
2 Invul Fields T2
Heat Field T2
Photo ifield T2
Shield Recharger T2
Purgers T2
Not that I recommend that for most people. It works for PvE but cap takes too long to charge up so the jump drive is next to useless unless you have a friend with cap transfer or if you dock.
For PvP I would replace the shield rechargers with large shield extenders. Replace the SPRÆs with PDS and purgers with extenders perhaps with a few damage mods and a DCU. Go for a massive hitpoint pool over HP regen. Might even swap the photon and heat for other things.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
AvatarOfHope
Amarr
The Nexus Project
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.01.18 19:38:00 -
[528]
I sent you in-game mail a few days ago..
awaiting your reply
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Asparien
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Posted - 2008.04.01 07:28:00 -
[529]
Hi all,
I only just heard a few days ago about the ability of the Myrmidon to put up a decent shield tank. I was intrigued and decided to train some shield skills to test it out. These are the results:
Hi's: Whatever u like but I tend to always include a drone link augmentor and a small tractor
Med's: 3x Large Shield Extender II, 2x Resistance Amplifiers II
Lo's: 5x Shield Power Relay II, 1x Damage Control II
Drones: 5x Hammerhead II
Rigs: 3x Purger I
With the above setup and no relevant skills at level 5 (only Shield Upgrades and Energy Grid Upgrades to lvl 4, the others are less again), I get a shield strength of 13548 and a recharge time of 154 secs. This gives a max shield recharge of 219.9hp/s which is not too shabby IMHO. This is intended for use in missions, so fitting rat specific hardeners will give an ability to tank roughly 550dps with the two primary resistances at 60% (quite easy with resistance amplifiers and DC II). This setup is cap stable and will never run out. Cap using guns will change that of course but fit with AC's, it should be a beast. Cant wait to train up projectiles...
Hope this helps anyone else thinking of doing the same.
Asp
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Xananthas
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Posted - 2008.06.23 21:43:00 -
[530]
I was just messing around in Qfit and came across a build for a Rattlesnake that looks pretty decent for a passive shield tank. Granted some of the gear for this build is hard to get but most is easy. Tell me what you think.
Hi's - Cruise launchers and some heavy neuts.
Mid's - 1x Magnetic resistance amplifier
1X Heat resistance amplifier
2x Shield Recharger II
2x Luther Veron's shield extender(these are probably hard to get so sub any good extender here if necessary)
Low's - 6x Shield Power Relay II
Rigs - 3x Core Defense Field Purger II
This build has roughly 50% shield resists across the board. It has around 25,000 shield hp and a max shield regen of around 600hp/sec with the proper skills trained at max and implants. Anyways, I'd probably never do this but I thought I'd throw it out there for those of you who enjoy passive shield builds.
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