Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel

---

The Imperial Navy fielded a force 10 times this during the Empress' coronation.

---

Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel

---

1+ Sansha battlestations.
3+ Titans.
43+ Carriers.
12+ Dreadnoughts.
8+ Supercarriers.
Hundreds of battleships.
Thousands of support cruisers and frigates.

What a pitiful force. I'm sure it's not all they have however. there must be more.

---

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu

---

It's Jovian.

---

Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel

---

there must be more.

---

Quote:

---

We've been looking into this.

Intel suggests the Leviathan was present in a purely non-combat capacity. Here's what I can share, please pass it on to whoever you deem fit:

Nation titans probably can't use doomsdays in low security space.
System-wide interference beacons placed by CONCORD appear to still be effective. Nation tried many times to use carrier-class capitals in high security systems, and each time reports state that no fighters were launched. The same technology jamming fighter bay launches renders doomsdays useless in low security space. It appears that Nation hasn't figured out a way around CONCORD's technology. Let's hope things stay this way.

And while youÆre at it, try to remember how important CONCORD's role in all of this is. They are deathly afraid of Nation circumventing their technology. If Kuvakei somehow does, they'll have to choose between allowing capsuleers the same, or allowing only Nation free reign. Both options are disastrous, I'm sure you agree.

Nation titans are probably not being used for bridging.
Nation has a demonstrated capability to deploy massive fleets through wormholes. This bypasses the need for cynosural fields and jump portals entirely û which in turn suggests that these titans are not being used for their bridging abilities.

I hope thatÆs of some help.

---

Originally by: Master Kuvakei

---

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu

---

It's Jovian.

---

No, my dear boy. It's mine.

---

Originally by: Master Kuvakei

---

No, my dear boy. It's mine.

---

Originally by: Master Kuvakei

---

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu

---

It's Jovian.

---

No, my dear boy. It's mine.

---

Originally by: Caellach Marellus

---

Edited by: Caellach Marellus on 26/06/2010 01:30:01

Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel

---

there must be more.

---

I think this is about the smartest thing you've said. Even the imagery cuts off half way through ships, who knows whatelse is there the probe lens didn't pick up.

Fact is as Istvaan rightly put, they can deploy this anywhere and at any time they like.

However there is a glimmer of hope, those Titans and Supercarriers aren't as effective as one might think they could be.

---

Quote:

---

Having said that I DO wonder about that Jove-designed station. Anyone have any ideas about that?

---

Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel

---

Having said that I DO wonder about that Jove-designed station. Anyone have any ideas about that?

---

Originally by: Nikita Alterana

---

Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel

---

Having said that I DO wonder about that Jove-designed station. Anyone have any ideas about that?

---

Ouria

---

Originally by: Snake Doctor

---

It's not Jovian. I'd be more worried about the Sleepers.

---

Originally by: Caellach Marellus

---

Edited by: Caellach Marellus on 26/06/2010 01:30:01

Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel

---

there must be more.

---

I think this is about the smartest thing you've said. Even the imagery cuts off half way through ships, who knows whatelse is there the probe lens didn't pick up.

Fact is as Istvaan rightly put, they can deploy this anywhere and at any time they like.

However there is a glimmer of hope, those Titans and Supercarriers aren't as effective as one might think they could be. Following was sent to me by Vice Admiral Siloneri Balginia of the Republic Fleet, in responce to intel I forwarded about a known Sansha Titan.

Quote:

---

We've been looking into this.

Intel suggests the Leviathan was present in a purely non-combat capacity. Here's what I can share, please pass it on to whoever you deem fit:

Nation titans probably can't use doomsdays in low security space.
System-wide interference beacons placed by CONCORD appear to still be effective. Nation tried many times to use carrier-class capitals in high security systems, and each time reports state that no fighters were launched. The same technology jamming fighter bay launches renders doomsdays useless in low security space. It appears that Nation hasn't figured out a way around CONCORD's technology. Let's hope things stay this way.

And while youÆre at it, try to remember how important CONCORD's role in all of this is. They are deathly afraid of Nation circumventing their technology. If Kuvakei somehow does, they'll have to choose between allowing capsuleers the same, or allowing only Nation free reign. Both options are disastrous, I'm sure you agree.

Nation titans are probably not being used for bridging.
Nation has a demonstrated capability to deploy massive fleets through wormholes. This bypasses the need for cynosural fields and jump portals entirely û which in turn suggests that these titans are not being used for their bridging abilities.

I hope thatÆs of some help.

---

Just hope those beacons remain effective.

---

Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing

---

Titans of current design have no nowhere near enuf size or mass to affect anything by its gravity, as most of the interior of an avatar will be empty space.

---

Originally by: Sylorin

---

Edited by: Sylorin on 26/06/2010 15:19:13

Correct. It's not a matter of size, but of mass. A titan, even with it's hanger space, still carries enough mass as a rocky asteroid of about the same size.

I'm looking at Captain Nell's image and one of our technicians brought up a good point. Namely, that isn't there a fourth titan flying around out there?

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7641/zjoueucl.png

Or was this one taken out?

---

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu

---

The fact that they can't doomsday or launch fighters is of little comfort. If a mothership hull struck a planet, the impact would wipe out cities, provinces, change weather patterns and pollute everything... if a Titan fell on one, the planet wouldn't be much use to anyone for a while. These things are the size of a small moon, except made of high-density metal, and powered by piles of antimatter.

Considering they've been harvesting our planetbound cousins and granting them the ability to operate giant warships, this may well be a suicide fleet designed to ravage the core worlds. An attack like that could break the backs of all four nations in one go.

---

Originally by: Klingon Admiral

---

Edited by: Klingon Admiral on 26/06/2010 21:23:12
I wonder why there are no Minmatar hulls present. Kuvakei seems to overestimate the brute force of capital ships, while lacking adequate fast-hitting vessels like the renowned Vagabond-class.

Additionally, you probably overestimate the destructive capabilities of a fleet of that size. Even the Thor-type citadel torpedo is just a "baby" nuclear warhead, and the other capital-sized weapons should not posess much more destructive potential. A fleet of dreadnoughts still needs hour to wear down the shields of a space station, how shall they be able to bombard bigger areas on planets. Additionally, a supercarrier crashing into a planet wouldn't be too horrible, as long as it doesn't hit a population centre. Two years ago, we had a Nyx crashing into a station, and while houndreds of thousands were killed, the structure of the station somewhat survived the incident.

I fear that a supercarrier or titan might crash into Jita IV - Moon 4 CN Assembly Plant. The consequences for interstellar trade would be horrific.

---

Originally by: Eventy One

---

This thread goes on and on, and no one has yet reacted to the fact that Master Kuvakei is alive?

Come on - folks! We have to do better than this.

MASTER KUVAKEI is alive!

Thats news!

---

Originally by: Uamentis

---

Yes, but imagine if a ship activated it's jump/warp drive while aimed towards a planet. Even a small object traveling at that speed would obliterate a planet, let alone a capital ship or, god forbid, a titan.

---

Originally by: Phoenix Torp

---

A simple reasonament:

Sleepers are ancient people in this universe
AND
Jove were the habitants of this universe when we entered in.

There's a Jove BattleStation inside a WH
AND
Sure they need a lot of infrastructure to do WH in a target system of Nation's choice, not very easy to deploy if Jove and Sleeper aren't the same, or at least have the same source.

It's logical to think that if the WH were "opened" for us, and we destroy Sleepers, Jove are angry for that. I would be worried then. The hole of this reasonament is that Concord wear Jove Ships and then would not have salvation.

---

Originally by: Sylorin

---

Noh,

Very thought provoking.

I don't know that I'd have let that idea run amok here on IGS, but it does get the brain working.

So what now?

---

Originally by: Master Kuvakei

---

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu

---

It's Jovian.

---

No, my dear boy. It's mine.

---

Originally by: Veron Daerth

---

Firstly, to address the issue of a titan impacting a planetary surface. Collision between objects in a spatial environment DO NOT calculate the same, since explosions,concussion, and energy propagate differently in space than an atmosphere. I dont have the equations directly handy, but a 10,000 meter diameter iron asteroid traveling at 60m/s (max speed for a stock Avatar) with an overall desity of 8.0grams/cm3 (basic iron asteroid) impacting a temperate world with a standard oxy-nitro atmosphere at an impact angle of 90degrees will release 1,790 megatons of explosive force and will create a crater just shy of 16.5 km across and just over 1 km deep at its epicenter. An Avatar, for comparison, is 13km in length along its long axis, and masses in at 2,278,125 metric tons. You can safely assume its density is much greater than a standard asteroid.

---

Originally by: Surrah

---

Preden, they are occupying a Jovian station. Claiming it even. With no Jovian response, there is only one assumption that can be made; the Jovians and Nation are working together. You should anticipate finding that the Angel Cartel is among their ranks as well. Don't let attacks from that sector come as a surprise.

---

Originally by: Preden

---

Originally by: Surrah

---

Preden, they are occupying a Jovian station. Claiming it even. With no Jovian response, there is only one assumption that can be made; the Jovians and Nation are working together. You should anticipate finding that the Angel Cartel is among their ranks as well. Don't let attacks from that sector come as a surprise.

---

Surrah, whilst they may be claiming that station, it does not rule out the possibility that Jovian space may have been invaded. Possibly with this wormhole generation technology we have seen them use. The Nation may have entered Jovian space the same way they been entering ours, and caught the Jovians by surprise.

I believe to hastily declare the Jovians enemies could hinder our situation as opposed to help it.

---

Originally by: Surrah

---

Preden, they are occupying a Jovian station. Claiming it even. With no Jovian response, there is only one assumption that can be made; the Jovians and Nation are working together. You should anticipate finding that the Angel Cartel is among their ranks as well. Don't let attacks from that sector come as a surprise.

---

Originally by: Vereesa

---

Capsuleers alone should be able to deal with this threat. I personally have fought in actions where at least fifteen titans and hundreds of capital ships were deployed, which puts this fleet to shame.

furthermore, pirate vessels are generally of a poorer construction and fit less capable equipment than equivilent capsuleer vessels, so I would assume my dreadnought is capable of engaging and destroying multiple pirate dreadnoughts simultaneously.

However, a coherent fleet of a size to crush this would require a number of large alliances working together, which would be unlikely just to fight Sansha. Capsuleers have much larger problems to worry about- chiefley other capsuleers.

---

Originally by: James Vayne

---

Originally by: Surrah

---

Preden, they are occupying a Jovian station. Claiming it even. With no Jovian response, there is only one assumption that can be made; the Jovians and Nation are working together. You should anticipate finding that the Angel Cartel is among their ranks as well. Don't let attacks from that sector come as a surprise.

---

While not to be dismissed. I find it difficult to believe that the Nation somehow managed to acquire this station from the Jovians, who are not in the habit of allowing their somewhat superior technology to fall into the hands of the likes of pirates. I concur with your assessment. The Jove need to come forward and explain themselves.

As for the Nation amassing forces? I can't speak for the Red Federation or Blue Republic of which I am part of. But they love a good fight *grins*.

---

Originally by: Surrah

---

Originally by: James Vayne

---

Originally by: Surrah

---

Preden, they are occupying a Jovian station. Claiming it even. With no Jovian response, there is only one assumption that can be made; the Jovians and Nation are working together. You should anticipate finding that the Angel Cartel is among their ranks as well. Don't let attacks from that sector come as a surprise.

---

While not to be dismissed. I find it difficult to believe that the Nation somehow managed to acquire this station from the Jovians, who are not in the habit of allowing their somewhat superior technology to fall into the hands of the likes of pirates. I concur with your assessment. The Jove need to come forward and explain themselves.

As for the Nation amassing forces? I can't speak for the Red Federation or Blue Republic of which I am part of. But they love a good fight *grins*.

---

You see, the Jovians do let their technology out every once in a while. They helped Sansha start his nation way back. They helped the Angel Cartel get going. Those are the only two groups that have ships that don't mesh with the standard empire hulls. Both are based on Jovian technology. And the Jove helped found the be all end all superior fighting force of our universe, CONCORD. CONCORD's ships can nullify even capsuleer ships with minimal effort, and seem to be in limitless supply.

Eyes need to open. Its getting dark. Hard times are upon us.

---

Originally by: A'dun

---

Has anyone yet considered the possibility of Angel Cartel involvement in these affairs? The fact that the Cartel exhibits widespread use of Jovian-based technology is well-known. I could certainly see them acting as brokers in some sort of diplomatic trade off. Who knows... Perhaps the Jovians are willing to provide a staging area in return for cybernetic technology? It's certainly possible the Nation has discovered a way to combat the Jovian Disease.

---

Originally by: A'dun

---

Has anyone yet considered the possibility of Angel Cartel involvement in these affairs? The fact that the Cartel exhibits widespread use of Jovian-based technology is well-known. I could certainly see them acting as brokers in some sort of diplomatic trade off. Who knows... Perhaps the Jovians are willing to provide a staging area in return for cybernetic technology? It's certainly possible the Nation has discovered a way to combat the Jovian Disease.

---

Originally by: FeralShadow

---

I think the first question we should be asking is:

How did the camera probe make it through the wormhole? It should have been obliterated. Perhaps we can replicate what happened to the probe so we can actually get a scout capsuleer into the enemy fortress.

---

Originally by: Myrkala

---

Edited by: Myrkala on 27/06/2010 00:23:08

Originally by: A'dun

---

Has anyone yet considered the possibility of Angel Cartel involvement in these affairs? The fact that the Cartel exhibits widespread use of Jovian-based technology is well-known. I could certainly see them acting as brokers in some sort of diplomatic trade off. Who knows... Perhaps the Jovians are willing to provide a staging area in return for cybernetic technology? It's certainly possible the Nation has discovered a way to combat the Jovian Disease.

---

I am investigating the Angel Cartels involvement in this matter, because they do seem to be involved in almost everything Jove.

---

Originally by: Corelous Alterrian

---

When Faction Warfare started I said then "This doesn't seam right, There is someone pulling strings we haven't seen yet." and suggested caution. But the Empires allowed the most Chaotic people in the Verse to start fighting unrestrained. Ever think that maybe the Nation had a hand in the mysterious Minmatar fleet that came out of no where and managed to fire off a cyno and jump caps into a HIGH sec system? Or some how brain washed the mind of what WAS a Highly decorated officer in the Fed Navy and by all accounts was a intelligent and good man,Or that the return of a long dead heir who possessed a tech that no one had ever seen and powerful enuff to bring down a ENTIRE Cap fleet in one shot? If the Nation has gotten agents into the Amarr empire and the Minmatar empire can you imagine the devastation that would come from 2 of the Major 4 being controlled by them?

I could take anyone of these and say "Well werid stuff happens" But all of this at once just seams planed to me. Maybe the jovians are helping them, Maybe not. Time will tell and we may have done more to help them then we even know.

Well thats my 2 cents. Anyone got a channel for the Sansha stuff? Cause I keep missing it and would like to add my ship and skills to the fight.

---

Originally by: Inmane

---

I would like to post something little offtopic: The largest confirmed meteor impact on The Earth was created by 10+ km wide meteor 20km/s fast and created 250 - 300 km diameter crater and penetrated 17km deep. Imagine all rocks from crater that are shooted out and shake. I guest large heavy debris was shooted faster than bullet. There exist scifi, where exists planetary bombardment by big asteroids. It is cheaper to use rocks instead of ships to bombard ;).

Fleet before jove station looks like in parade formation. I think this is done by nations who are preparing to wage war. I think they wanted to demonstrate their power ( ships ) and their influence ( Jove ) to us.

There is one idea i have not read here: maybe Nation have not given nohting to Jove, but Jove might want something from us.

---

Originally by: Citizen Astur

---

(blah blah)

---

Originally by: Citizen Astur

---

Just as this truth will not be easy to accept, but you capsuleers are much more powerful than you think.

---

Originally by: Citizen Astur

---

Be warned,

---

Originally by: Master Kuvakei

---

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu

---

It's Jovian.

---

No, my dear boy. It's mine.

---

Originally by: Iture

---

Originally by: Citizen Astur

---

Be warned,

---

Never threaten us peon.

We capsuleer's are gods.
We are immortal and invincible.
Your great nation may have many thousands of ships, but our collective has a great many more. We use and abuse this system, do not meddle in things you do not have the power to fully control. Angering the whole will result in your destruction. Be careful in how you speak to us.

---

Originally by: Ghost Hunter

---

Greatness comes not from individuality

---

Originally by: Iture

---

Originally by: Ghost Hunter

---

Greatness comes not from individuality

---

I would beg to differ.

A small fleet of thukker tribe vessels wiped out the heart of concord.
How easy would it be for the tens of thousands of us to scour the empires clean and supplant ourselves as rulers?
We like the way the cluster is, slave. It would be unwise to upset the balance.

---

Originally by: Ghost Hunter

---

Greatness comes not from individuality, but from unity. Together as a whole is the magnificent done. If you truly were worthy of your position as a god, you would understand this and know it to be true.

---

Originally by: Citizen Astur

---

Originally by: Ghost Hunter

---

Greatness comes not from individuality, but from unity. Together as a whole is the magnificent done. If you truly were worthy of your position as a god, you would understand this and know it to be true.

---

You speak as He would, brother. These words move me to tears. Kuvakei saw something in you, and I cannot see how he did from so far away.

You should know we were there, brother. For the people of Tama, and for the rebirth.

You think you have struck the weakest link. We are Nation. We are all great, we are all small.

I am at a loss for words. In your humility is our hope. This unity still transcends my own understanding, and yet again I am humbled by the greatness of the path before us.

---

Quote:

---

You think you have struck the weakest link. We are Nation. We are all great, d2UgYXJlIGFsbCBzbWFsbA.

---

Originally by: Iture

---

You can never hope to match the power of the capsuleer alliances. I dare you to challenge our might.

---

Originally by: Citizen Astur

---

The truth is that the Jove are not as omnipotent as they want the rest of the cluster to believe. Too few of you have questioned, over the years, just how much it serves their own interests to cultivate such a mythology.

---

Originally by: Citizen Astur

---

You lead nothing but a gang of thugs seeking violence. Maut showed this much. You saw we were not there, you realized this much, and yet you "fought" anyway. Against what? Stop kidding yourselves. Your interest is in glory, in violence, and not the welfare of baseline humanity.

---

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

---

Hahaha what the christ?!

---

Originally by: Ghost Hunter

---

And yet this great wrath stops cold in its tracks against CONCORD. It is not us this posturing should be directed to. Your immortality would not survive very long if not for the people you so carelessly toss aside.

Greatness comes not from individuality, but from unity. Together as a whole is the magnificent done. If you truly were worthy of your position as a god, you would understand this and know it to be true.

---

Originally by: KoffeeKup

---

Edited by: KoffeeKup on 27/06/2010 09:38:32
Edited by: KoffeeKup on 27/06/2010 09:37:07
Need I remind all of you, our immortality exists only because of a shell that sits in a sterilized space lab light years away? We are not truly immortal, we are only hermit crabs scuttling about in an endless sea, finding a new home as we out grow out or break our shells. We like to call ourselves such because we don't like to believe that only a decade or so ago we were as fragile as the "mortals" that inhabit the planets bellow us. We can be killed, it only requires a simple mistake or a spike through our new homes cranium before we can inhabit it.

---

Originally by: KoffeeKup

---

Edited by: KoffeeKup on 27/06/2010 09:38:32
Edited by: KoffeeKup on 27/06/2010 09:37:07
Need I remind all of you, our immortality exists only because of a shell that sits in a sterilized space lab light years away? We are not truly immortal, we are only hermit crabs scuttling about in an endless sea, finding a new home as we out grow out or break our shells. We like to call ourselves such because we don't like to believe that only a decade or so ago we were as fragile as the "mortals" that inhabit the planets bellow us. We can be killed, it only requires a simple mistake or a spike through our new homes cranium before we can inhabit it.
We are so delusional, we can only stave off death as long as we have a new shell to crawl into. Be careful with your words, as the words "God" or "Immortal" are overstatements.

---

Originally by: Emarian

---

Edited by: Emarian on 27/06/2010 10:05:23

Originally by: KoffeeKup

---

Edited by: KoffeeKup on 27/06/2010 09:38:32
Edited by: KoffeeKup on 27/06/2010 09:37:07
Need I remind all of you, our immortality exists only because of a shell that sits in a sterilized space lab light years away? We are not truly immortal, we are only hermit crabs scuttling about in an endless sea, finding a new home as we out grow out or break our shells. We like to call ourselves such because we don't like to believe that only a decade or so ago we were as fragile as the "mortals" that inhabit the planets bellow us. We can be killed, it only requires a simple mistake or a spike through our new homes cranium before we can inhabit it.
We are so delusional, we can only stave off death as long as we have a new shell to crawl into. Be careful with your words, as the words "God" or "Immortal" are overstatements.

---

That may be so, but we can die and rise up again to battle anew.
Also using "Immortal" isn't as accurate but is more convenient to use in conversation.

---

Originally by: Citizen Astur

---

Nothing passes through our portals without Master willing it. He wanted you to see the truth.

---

Originally by: Citizen Astur

---

Nothing passes through our portals without Master willing it. He wanted you to see the truth.

The first question you should be asking is why, all this time later, the Jove have not come to the empires seeking assistance. Let me give you the answer they will not: It is because they do not want anyone to know the truth.

And what is the truth?

The truth is that the Jove are not as omnipotent as they want the rest of the cluster to believe. Too few of you have questioned, over the years, just how much it serves their own interests to cultivate such a mythology.

You are heirs to a greater glory, capsuleers. Do you not realize this simple fact? Look at the path they are leading you down. Look at the fate that torments them. It is the same fate that awaits you if you continue to follow in their footsteps. I do not believe any of you truly want what they offer, it is just that until now, you were offered no alternative.

Master Kuvakei alone is brave enough to seek other paths. We need not march towards oblivion with the Jove blindly beating the drum. Humanity can still be saved, but only through change that will be confrontational, violent, and at times alienating. These are the costs of a true alternative. We are fighting against almost a decade of entrenched perspectives, this will be no easy task.

Just as this truth will not be easy to accept, but you capsuleers are much more powerful than you think. Master Kuvakei alone recognizes that you are worth more, so much more. Do not be paralyzed by fear and doubt. Do not become distracted by propaganda and myth.

Think rationally about what you see before you.

---

Originally by: KoffeeKup

---

Originally by: Emarian

---

Edited by: Emarian on 27/06/2010 10:05:23

Originally by: KoffeeKup

---

Edited by: KoffeeKup on 27/06/2010 09:38:32
Edited by: KoffeeKup on 27/06/2010 09:37:07
Need I remind all of you, our immortality exists only because of a shell that sits in a sterilized space lab light years away? We are not truly immortal, we are only hermit crabs scuttling about in an endless sea, finding a new home as we out grow out or break our shells. We like to call ourselves such because we don't like to believe that only a decade or so ago we were as fragile as the "mortals" that inhabit the planets bellow us. We can be killed, it only requires a simple mistake or a spike through our new homes cranium before we can inhabit it.
We are so delusional, we can only stave off death as long as we have a new shell to crawl into. Be careful with your words, as the words "God" or "Immortal" are overstatements.

---

That may be so, but we can die and rise up again to battle anew.
Also using "Immortal" isn't as accurate but is more convenient to use in conversation.

---

Yes, but i find that some people take those words to another level and some how believe what they say is a infallible truth.

And how could you rise up again if your clone is destroyed before your consciousness can even make it back to the fresh hunk of crafted biomass in the medical bays clone vat?

---

Originally by: Preden

---

Originally by: Citizen Astur

---

Nothing passes through our portals without Master willing it. He wanted you to see the truth.

The first question you should be asking is why, all this time later, the Jove have not come to the empires seeking assistance. Let me give you the answer they will not: It is because they do not want anyone to know the truth.

And what is the truth?

The truth is that the Jove are not as omnipotent as they want the rest of the cluster to believe. Too few of you have questioned, over the years, just how much it serves their own interests to cultivate such a mythology.

Master Kuvakei alone is brave enough to seek other paths. We need not march towards oblivion with the Jove blindly beating the drum. Humanity can still be saved, but only through change that will be confrontational, violent, and at times alienating. These are the costs of a true alternative. We are fighting against almost a decade of entrenched perspectives, this will be no easy task.

Just as this truth will not be easy to accept, but you capsuleers are much more powerful than you think. Master Kuvakei alone recognizes that you are worth more, so much more. Do not be paralyzed by fear and doubt. Do not become distracted by propaganda and myth.

Think rationally about what you see before you.

---

This may well be largely propaganda on the part the Nation, and therefore I would advise taking this with a pinch of salt, however I believe there may be some truth in the matter.

"Do not become distracted by propoganda and myth." - This much I agree with. I have long believed that the Jovian Empire is not as powerful as their reputation leads us to believe. If Capsuleers are clearing out ranks of Sleepers in Wormhole space, a theorised distant relation to the Jovians, then it stands to reasons Capsuleers may also pose a threat to the Jovian Empire. Perhaps that is one of the reasons Jovian authorities have closed their borders with us?

Regardless as to the situation I think a response from a Jovian Ambassador, if at all possible, could help to reduce a great deal of speculation. In my opinion at least, it is clear the Nation has control over some Jovian technology, given willing or not.

Beware of the words of Kuvakei's Nation, whilst the power of capsuleers is well known throughout the known reaches of space, caution should be advised. I fear the response from the Nation is partly to press Capsuleers into sudden swift reponses which may result in a loss of clones. We all know how painful that is. The loss of clones may only help further bolster the Nations numbers. Tales have been told of the Nation reanimating deceased corpses. I do not wish to see this become a reality.

Whilst the Nation have graced us with a response, we still have had nothing from the Jovians. Perhaps if no response is made, CONCORD should allow small groups of capsuleers into Jovian space to identify the threat posed by Master Kuvakei's Nation.

There are many interesting theories being aired here, and I don't think we can rule out many of them for sure at this point. The more contact we have with the Nation, or hopefully with the Jovian Empire, the more we will learn about this recent, unexpected turn of events.

For now, I will await further contact with either Master Kuvakei himself, the Nation's apparent chosen spokesperson Citizen Astur or with the Jovian Empire.

---

Originally by: KoffeeKup

---

I agree, i think that the Jovians weakness was in trying to make themselves immortal, they tampered with their genetics and somehow believed that there would be no consequence. Remember,they are as human as we are, they just are like the rich older kids with the kooler toys. I think its about time they learned to share.

---

Originally by: Emarian

---

I want me a Jovian battleship, I believe it's called ;correct me if I am wrong; an Albion.

---

Originally by: Sa'Shena

---

Originally by: Emarian

---

I want me a Jovian battleship, I believe it's called ;correct me if I am wrong; an Albion.

---

I think I will correct you.

The Jovian Battleship class is called an 'Eidolon', referring in English to "A Phantom, apparition or an embodiment of an ideal".

---

Originally by: DoubleD231

---

There is so many ifs and buts regarding this information, for all we know the nation has just found an empty jove system, stored a mass of ships there and have decided to stir up some trouble. Throwing some epeen around certanly gets responses these days :P

The main questions i think are 1: are the jovians allied with the nation or in some sort of conflict of which we have no information and 2: have the nation aquired/been given jove tech to field.

---

Originally by: Alexi Thymia

---

Edited by: Alexi Thymia on 27/06/2010 11:46:47
One. A Sansha Fleet was sighted within a solar system in Jovian Space.

Concerning this, I do not know if this has be given any thought yet, but studying the star map, 3-CE1R seems to be one of the farest outlying systems under jovian authority. Considering rumours about the limited population of the Jove, it would be logical to assume that this system would be one with rather little military presence. Compare this to the infrastructure of the remaining empires: outskirt systems always suffer from lower security status due to limitiations on Concord and Empire Navy numbers. In addition, since conventional means of travel to the Jove Empire are nullified, Jovian military would have little reason to maintain large numbers of defending vessels in 3-CE1R.

Two. Sansha Kuvakei claims to be the "owner" of the Prosper Vault in said system.

I want you all to see this as what it is, a claim. At this point of time, we have little reason to either belief or distrust Kuvakei's words, as it has been said: we've been shown this intel on purpose. To what means? The Sansha spokes-drones would have us take it as a demonstration of power. Yet, as of now, we do not know one thing:

Does the ability to generate wormholes predate the Sansha appearance in Jovian Space, or is the order of things reversed?

Basically, two different scenarios can be imagined. The Sansha either intruded Jove space forcefully (and hence chose a weakly defended system as clarified above) by means of their newfound wormhole technology, OR they were in some way invited to Jove space and learned about this technology by means of aforementioned station. We cannot say which scenario is the true one at this point of time, however, since the Prosper Vault is a financial institution, we can reason from the little we know about Jove society, that it should not be involved into high technology researching, so there's room for doubt concerning the "secrets within the station". Also, Kuvakei probably wouldn't taunt the Jove after "being invited".

Three. We do not know the status of the remaining solar systems in Jovian Space, and Sansha Kuvakei rallies capsuleers against the "Path of the Jove".

For all we know, a war could be raging within the Jove Empire at this very moment. Assuming the Sansha were the unknown party involved with Ouria back then, it might well be that they've been given the technological foundation for the recent wormhole technology and extensive Jovian infrastructure intelligence back then, which made this - hypothetical - incursion into Jove space possible. We cannot say if Ouria's treason might have given the Sansha additional means to battle the technologically advanced Jove, yet, looking at the facts, and assuming the presence of the Sansha in Jove Space was accomplished by military means, it looks like Kuvakei is "hungry for more" of the Jovian Technology. The sudden allusive comments intended to stroke our narcissism as capsuleers could mean that his incursion of jove space isn't going as smoothly as predicted; it might well be that Sansha is seeking help against the defending Jove.

---

Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium

---

Master Kuvakei and his minions are nothing but puppets in the hands of the Jovians.

---

Originally by: Citizen Astur

---

The truth is that the Jove are not as omnipotent as they want the rest of the cluster to believe.

---

Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium

---

Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium

---

Master Kuvakei and his minions are nothing but puppets in the hands of the Jovians.

---

Originally by: Citizen Astur

---

The truth is that the Jove are not as omnipotent as they want the rest of the cluster to believe.

---

Dear Citizen Astur, with all due respect... have you ever seen a Jove cruiser in action?
I have, and seeing is believing in the power of the Jove.

Do not get me wrong, I have no quarrel with the Nation.
But living in a dreamworld will not help your cause, citizen Astur.

---

Originally by: Torquil Noble

---

Originally by: DoubleD231

---

There is so many ifs and buts regarding this information, for all we know the nation has just found an empty jove system, stored a mass of ships there and have decided to stir up some trouble. Throwing some epeen around certanly gets responses these days :P

The main questions i think are 1: are the jovians allied with the nation or in some sort of conflict of which we have no information and 2: have the nation aquired/been given jove tech to field.

---

3: are the Jovians merely using the Sansha's to test the water?

---

Quote:

---

Archive Enclave
1.1-3.3 Digital Backup Library
3.4-3.5 Terran Artifacts
4.1 Theories of the EVE Gate
5.1 Talocan Technology
6.1-6.9 Emergent Ideologies

Communications Enclave
1.0-5.1 Microvirtual Transmission Sensor
5.2-5.5 Sensor Backup Systems
6.0 Operation Servers
7.0 Proliferation News Network Studios
8.0 Detransmission Clusters

Medical Enclave
1.0 Emergency
2.0-2.8 Triage
2.9 Stasis
3.0 Quarantine Sector A
4.0 Quarantine Sector B
4.0-9.2 Quarantine Sector C
9.3 Quarantine Sector X

Oruze Enclave
1.0 Solar Engineering
1.1 Photoelectrical Engineering
1.2 Thermovoltaics
1.3 Residential
1.4 Residential

Research Enclave - BioGenetics
1.0-3.2 Animal Cryogenic Research Laboratories
3.3-3.8 Holding Pens
4.0-6.0 De-animation Genealogy Research Library
7.0-8.0 Student Classrooms
9.0 Human Cryogenetic Applications

Research Enclave - Theoretical Genetics
1.0 Interdigital Neural Activity Laboratories
2.0 Multiple-Ancestry Research
3.0 Statistical Proliferation Archive
4.0 Datagenesis Procedures
5.0-8.0 Backup Servers
9.0 Mixed Intelligence Displays

Research Enclave - Virtual Genetics
1.0 Neurodegenerative Case Studies
2.0 Non-natural Teleology
3.0-4.7 Test Clinics
4.8 Bioinformatics Archive
4.9 Virtual Mutation
5.0-9.8 Emergent Systems Design

Security Enclave
1.0 Virtual Kinetic Research
2.0 Artificial Intelligence Perpetuation Technology
3.0-5.0 Interstellar Surveillance Task Force
6.0 Anti-Thermocryogenesis Research and Implementation
7.0 Modulation Navigation Network

---

Originally by: IzzyChan

---

Man, Sansha has so much styleÖ we should bottle it and export it out to the lesser fortunate.

---

Originally by: Aria Jenneth

---

Originally by: Myrkala

---

Edited by: Myrkala on 27/06/2010 00:23:08

Originally by: A'dun

---

Has anyone yet considered the possibility of Angel Cartel involvement in these affairs? The fact that the Cartel exhibits widespread use of Jovian-based technology is well-known. I could certainly see them acting as brokers in some sort of diplomatic trade off. Who knows... Perhaps the Jovians are willing to provide a staging area in return for cybernetic technology? It's certainly possible the Nation has discovered a way to combat the Jovian Disease.

---

I am investigating the Angel Cartels involvement in this matter, because they do seem to be involved in almost everything Jove.

---

... Pilots, I'm not so very involved in these affairs just now due to some ongoing problems that the necessary people are duly informed about, but this I just have to say something about, that being, "I'msorrywhat?"

What?

WHAT??

Do the words "shooting war" mean anything to you, pilots?

How about "invasion," or perhaps, "vicious territorial dispute?"

A little remedial nullsec political geography, pilots: Sansha's Nation and the Angel Cartel are, indeed, neighbors-- profoundly unfriendly ones. The Nation is engaged in aggressive expansion and trying to take our space by force.

And if the Angel Cartel had such technology, I can assure you it would very much be keeping it to itself. If there was any such inspiration for ships like the Machariel, it is, at most, derivative.

We may be a little mercenary at times, pilots, but we're not blasted stupid.

---

Originally by: Deneris Maelstrom

---

I do believe with all this racket being created we are forgetting an important topic to the capsuleer way of life. ISK, and lots of it.
IF the nation does take an action or the Joves for that matter, we the undying children of the stars will reap this field of technology and equipment. And it will fund new research, technology, and building for Empire and Capsuleer alike.
I do not pretend to hind behind false or thin ideals. Politics are no concern of mine. What is a concern is the size of my wallet.
So bring your little Fleet of ill equipped ships, and see what happens when the greatest driving force of the human race among these stars is turned against you and your twisted kind.
Cheers, I look forward to the battleship I will fly, salvaged from wrecks of your folly.
Hey that sounds like a great ship name.
Kuvakei's Folly

---

Originally by: Myrkala

---

Don't be ignorant and jump to conclusions! If you had read the related thread you would see I was investigating the possibility of the Cartel having spies within True Power.

So far, there has been no "official" response from the Cartel.

---

Originally by: Snake Doctor

---

It's not Jovian. I'd be more worried about the Sleepers.

Our own intel indicates some startling revelations
1. W-Space Talocan and Sleeper antimatter caches have recently gone missing, moved, or destroyed.
2. A number Talocan and Sleeper technology caches and archeological sites in unknown W-space systems have recently disappeared.
3. A number of Oruze Constructs have become at least partially active, indicating that at least one of these installations is now transmitting information to the others.
4. A number of "Mirrors" seem to be displaying some strange readings, indicating at least one "mirror" in (what seems to be) a network of them has become fully functional.
5. The Nation is most likely in possestion of at least one Oruze Construct, its facilities, and its technology and is using said technology to open wormholes in targetted systems.
6. Sansha architechture shares notable characteristics with Sleeper technology and Talocan installations. Even if only a visual similarity exists, it poses a few questions.

My channels have been a bit mixed lately, so our intel may not be the most accurate, but this is what we have.

---

Originally by: Brandrsun

---

Do the capsuleers of New Eden intend to unite against this threat?

---

Originally by: tyberiuos

---

looking at the feed i say the time for talking is past and it is time to unite and destroy this threat. We have united only once before against the same enemy when we were not even in danger. So i propose that we unite and fight this threat with everything we have. Im my personal guess is right that battlestation is carrying some important people of the nation and given the chance i think we need to take it out at all cost.

---

Originally by: Iture

---

Originally by: Brandrsun

---

Do the capsuleers of New Eden intend to unite against this threat?

---

Unite? why would we need too?
Atlas alone could wipe them from the face of existence.

---

Originally by: Iture

---

Originally by: Brandrsun

---

Do the capsuleers of New Eden intend to unite against this threat?

---

Unite? why would we need too?
Atlas alone could wipe them from the face of existence.

---

Originally by: Shik'aria Morse'ya

---

Originally by: Snake Doctor

---

---

Surely in the discussions so far Snake Doctor's points have been overlooked. Given the number of capsuleers now operating in (and in many cases inhabiting) W-space we should surely be concerned for such changes in sleeper activity. As many of these W-space areas are linked by 'natural' wormholes to some of the heartlands of every major empire and alliance so surely we should be greatly worried if the Nation (and whoever they are working with/for) has gained control of any Sleeper technology. The last thing we would need if trying to deal with a Nation incursion which could happen anywhere, any time, would be Sleeper drones emerging in any major system and causing havoc.

If the rumours of the artificial wormhole being closed using gravimetric technology is true, surely we should look into ways of closing the 'natural' wormholes too?

---

Quote:

---

As well, again, hasn't anyone noticed that this seemingly "old man" Kuvakei looks to be in his mid 40's? He appears quite young for such an aged man.

---

Originally by: Wedgetail

---

Quote:

---

As well, again, hasn't anyone noticed that this seemingly "old man" Kuvakei looks to be in his mid 40's? He appears quite young for such an aged man.

---

Kuvakei is a capsuleer as we are, it is by no stretch difficult for us to enter younger versions of our own bodies when the need arises, why should it be more so for him?

---

Originally by: sythra coratana

---

it is not difficult to hide clones nor the cloning facilities needed to support them, and given the nature of nation cybernetics would it even be at all surprising if he could hide his conscious mind in the body of another slave(s) while a new clone was grown? if indeed they had all been destroyed?

---

Originally by: Brandrsun

---

Hubris comes before the downfall. I would not sing of victories when the fight has yet to be fought. It shows you as foolish and arrogant.

---

Originally by: Jim Luc

---

Don't the Jovians have their own capital ships? Why do they need Amarr and Caldari capitals? Doesn't make sense to me....

---

Originally by: Elder Lemon

---

It would seem that they have adopted 3 races of ship other than their own. Amarr titans, gallente dreads, and caldari carriers and super-carriers. Any reason sansha has not yet created a diobolical verson of these ships? It just looks wierd to have these races ships being used in a superfleet of nightmares.

PS: You must have some faith in your cloaking device to get that close to take a picture of that

---

Originally by: KoffeeKup

---

Originally by: Jim Luc

---

Don't the Jovians have their own capital ships? Why do they need Amarr and Caldari capitals? Doesn't make sense to me....

---

It's sansha's nation, they just have a station thats jovian, its supposed to be really important legendary one. I think CCP was trying to tell us to look at the lore but im too lazy. anyway, i don't think that any of there ships would ever be jovian, they would never give so freely of their knowledge.

---

Originally by: McFantastic

---

We are all monsters here.

Capsuleers and CONCORD like to criticize "pirate" groups like Sansha's Nation and the Blood Raiders for their bizarre rituals, experimentation, and apparent hostility. They turn a blind eye to the fact that the capsuleers themselves are no longer truly human. Every moment we spend in a pod, detached from our bodies with our mental faculties being augmented by ship systems, we lose a little bit of that humanity.

I may be new among the ranks, but even I have begun to notice a certain growing apathy towards the fates of mere "mortal" men. We cannot die, but our crews can. When was the last time you thought of your crew as anything but another ship subsystem? Every time we lose a ship, people die, but we only think of it in terms of ISK lost and gained. It's only natural that we think in such a way, and that is the price that all of humanity must pay for our existence. The price we pay is more subtle.

Jove has given us gifts bound in curses. It shocks me that so few among us have considered the long-term implications of both. The Sisters, the Nation, the Raiders, all of them have come to terms with our dying humanity in their own way.

We must come to it in ours, lest we suffer the same fate as Jove.

The Sleepers chose to remove themselves from the galaxy rather than continue down the path that we have now set. Perhaps it is time for all of us to start asking why.

---

Originally by: SimonBitdiddle

---

All things considered, I'd expect them to launch an attack on someplace well populated and debilitating like... say... Jita...

The economic and political havoc wreaked by that sort of attack, even if there was enough time to notify any capsulteers in Jita to evacuate, would cleanly destroy Empire...

---

Originally by: Bagehi

---

Originally by: Brandrsun

---

Hubris comes before the downfall. I would not sing of victories when the fight has yet to be fought. It shows you as foolish and arrogant.

---

You underestimate the power of a single 0.0 alliance, let alone a coalition, let alone all capsuleers. While impressive looking, any major alliance could deal with that fleet.

---

Originally by: McFantastic

---

We are all monsters here.

Capsuleers and CONCORD like to criticize "pirate" groups like Sansha's Nation and the Blood Raiders for their bizarre rituals, experimentation, and apparent hostility. They turn a blind eye to the fact that the capsuleers themselves are no longer truly human. Every moment we spend in a pod, detached from our bodies with our mental faculties being augmented by ship systems, we lose a little bit of that humanity.

I may be new among the ranks, but even I have begun to notice a certain growing apathy towards the fates of mere "mortal" men. We cannot die, but our crews can. When was the last time you thought of your crew as anything but another ship subsystem? Every time we lose a ship, people die, but we only think of it in terms of ISK lost and gained. It's only natural that we think in such a way, and that is the price that all of humanity must pay for our existence. The price we pay is more subtle.

Jove has given us gifts bound in curses. It shocks me that so few among us have considered the long-term implications of both. The Sisters, the Nation, the Raiders, all of them have come to terms with our dying humanity in their own way.

We must come to it in ours, lest we suffer the same fate as Jove.

The Sleepers chose to remove themselves from the galaxy rather than continue down the path that we have now set. Perhaps it is time for all of us to start asking why.

---

Originally by: KoffeeKup

---

Originally by: McFantastic

---

We are all monsters here.

Capsuleers and CONCORD like to criticize "pirate" groups like Sansha's Nation and the Blood Raiders for their bizarre rituals, experimentation, and apparent hostility. They turn a blind eye to the fact that the capsuleers themselves are no longer truly human. Every moment we spend in a pod, detached from our bodies with our mental faculties being augmented by ship systems, we lose a little bit of that humanity.

I may be new among the ranks, but even I have begun to notice a certain growing apathy towards the fates of mere "mortal" men. We cannot die, but our crews can. When was the last time you thought of your crew as anything but another ship subsystem? Every time we lose a ship, people die, but we only think of it in terms of ISK lost and gained. It's only natural that we think in such a way, and that is the price that all of humanity must pay for our existence. The price we pay is more subtle.

Jove has given us gifts bound in curses. It shocks me that so few among us have considered the long-term implications of both. The Sisters, the Nation, the Raiders, all of them have come to terms with our dying humanity in their own way.

We must come to it in ours, lest we suffer the same fate as Jove.

The Sleepers chose to remove themselves from the galaxy rather than continue down the path that we have now set. Perhaps it is time for all of us to start asking why.

---

I don't! Me and my crew on my retriver are sooo tight! after we bring in i big haul of scord i take them back to the station for some Quafe+!
Can't really say the same thing about the guys in my caracal.... we got trapped in a bubble and a cane pounded out the artillery...... Good times..... thanks to Quafe i can enjoy my friends company whenever!
P.S Check the new Chron..... you'll understand.

---

Originally by: Iture

---

We capsuleer's are gods.
We are immortal and invincible.

---

Originally by: Gnulpie

---

...The best slaves are those who think they are free.

---

Originally by: Iture

---

Originally by: Brandrsun

---

Do the capsuleers of New Eden intend to unite against this threat?

---

Unite? why would we need too?
Atlas alone could wipe them from the face of existence.

---

Originally by: Axemaster

---

Originally by: Veron Daerth

---

Firstly, to address the issue of a titan impacting a planetary surface. Collision between objects in a spatial environment DO NOT calculate the same, since explosions,concussion, and energy propagate differently in space than an atmosphere. I dont have the equations directly handy, but a 10,000 meter diameter iron asteroid traveling at 60m/s (max speed for a stock Avatar) with an overall desity of 8.0grams/cm3 (basic iron asteroid) impacting a temperate world with a standard oxy-nitro atmosphere at an impact angle of 90degrees will release 1,790 megatons of explosive force and will create a crater just shy of 16.5 km across and just over 1 km deep at its epicenter. An Avatar, for comparison, is 13km in length along its long axis, and masses in at 2,278,125 metric tons. You can safely assume its density is much greater than a standard asteroid.

---

60m/s is very very slow, so I find it extremely hard to believe that you would get any crater at all. More like a big rock pile. I mean, 60m/s is what you get if you drop it from a few stories up. Your analysis is ludicrous.

---

Originally by: Yehat Quan

---

I wake up after a year long cryogenic treatment, and what do I see? Capsuleers discussing who is stronger then whom, with no second thought spent on what they are seeing in the image.

The reason this doesn't look like a Gallente station, is... the station is not in the camera image. One has to wonder whether it even still exists.

Mr. Kuvakei, when you say this thing is yours, you mean it quite literally, don't you. This is your capital ship. It is also a Jovian Mothership, which by any other standards is a Titan, like the other ships surrounding it. And if I recall my history lessons correctly, one of those things was responsible for the destruction of most of the Ammar fleet.

Now, there are only two ways for you to get one of those: you got it from the defecting Jove admiral (would he really have access to one of those?), or you refurbished a Jovian Mothership wreck.

Analysing the force carefully... You do create those out of our wrecks, don't you. There would be no other reason for your fleet to be such a rag-tag assembly. In fact, that is a pretty smart way to deal with the enormous amount of resources that creating a Titan takes, even if you have an entire Nation at your disposal.

In any case, if Sansha managed to restore the Mothership's weaponry, whoever gets to battle this fleet will have to deal with losses as heavy as those of the Ammar fleet during their assault on the Jove. So much for the irrelevant occupied Jove station.


Now, as everyone can see from my relationships with the empires, I am not interested in politics or upholding one nation above another. I am, however, interested in new technology. I will probably have to re-learn using the current generation of scan probes, but I am sure it will be well worth it. (Congratulations, Mouse. If this ... disease wouldn't have gotten me a year ago, I would have had the same goal as you.)

As to Sansha not having original thoughts: we have a saying where I come from: Better well-stolen than badly invented. Looking at the ship designs of other outlaw factions, I am sure some capsuleers will agree.

---

Originally by: Zachstar

---

An attack on Jita? It would have to be atleast a twin titan backed fleet because more capsuleers would show up than flies to a pile of cow poo.

Also as it is the main market hub it is WELL defended by forces and merc groups. Sansha would be a pure moron to attack there.

---

Originally by: Commander Negro

---

If they were able to find a weak spot in its mechanism, (like developing a jamming device which makes the capsule unable the commuincate with its own ship, or worse, emmiting such pulses/ray which is able "enslave" a capsuleer for a brief period of time)than they will have a huge advantage over any empire's technology superiority.

---

Originally by: Jovan Geldon

---

1. The Nation and the Directorate are working together to some unknown end.
2. The Nation has attacked the Directorate and taken the system (or at least, the station) by force.

Despite the undoubted prowess of the Jovian Navy, the boastful communiques left in this forum by Sansha representatives combined with the reports of a battle in 3-CE1R lead me to believe that the latter is the more likely of the two.

---

Originally by: Jovan Geldon

---

Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 10/07/2010 23:00:22
As I see it, the presence of Sansha forces in Jovian space can only mean one of two things:

1. The Nation and the Directorate are working together to some unknown end.
2. The Nation has attacked the Directorate and taken the system (or at least, the station) by force.

Despite the undoubted prowess of the Jovian Navy, the boastful communiques left in this forum by Sansha representatives combined with the reports of a battle in 3-CE1R lead me to believe that the latter is the more likely of the two.

Unlike some of my other capsuleer bretheren I make no claims to Godhood, or indeed precognitive prowess, but the way things are progressing I can envisage these events marking a new chapter in the history of New Eden. If my previous assumption is correct then the Jovians have shown themselves to be deficient in mataining their soverignty, and (albeit probably later rather than sooner) they may decide that their only recourse is to open their borders and elicit help from the capsuleers they themselves helped to create.

All this is of course speculation, and I do not mean to imply that the loss of one system marks a seismic shift in centuries-old Jovian foreign policy. Having said that, if things continue as they have been and more Jovian systems fall to Kuvakei's forces, then things could get very interesting indeed...

EDIT:- Spelling

---

Originally by: Arthainas

---

Why don't you lowly commoners do alittle more then guess as to the outcome of this? Take charge and raid Stain herself. Surely answers lay there in Nations home. Albeit, commoners are not known for thinking, but surely one of you must have thought of this?

---

Originally by: Snake Doctor

---

It's not Jovian. I'd be more worried about the Sleepers.

---

Quote:

---

Our own intel indicates some startling revelations
1. W-Space Talocan and Sleeper antimatter caches have recently gone missing, moved, or destroyed.

---

Quote:

---

2. A number Talocan and Sleeper technology caches and archeological sites in unknown W-space systems have recently disappeared.

---

Quote:

---

3. A number of Oruze Constructs have become at least partially active, indicating that at least one of these installations is now transmitting information to the others.

---