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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Torothanax
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Posted - 2010.09.09 18:37:00 -
[331]
 Originally by: Princess Jodi
I once agreed with the OP, even started a thread about it just like this one. But there will be no change to cloaking mechanics just because you are afraid of one silent red in system. Sorry, but its just not gonna happen.
My first corp was given a station just 3 jumps from the last Red Alliance system way back in the times when they were almost destroyed. We were 0.0 noobs and thought we could mine and rat forever. RA kept a cloaky in system 23/7, and anytime we organized any activity a fleet would form up, travel the 3 jumps to us and kill us. It was quite annoying and 'undefeatable'.
CCP urged us to use 'in game mechanics' to solve our problem. We emo-raged and argued but to no avail. Now, years later, I realize that they were correct.
Here's what you do:
- Use the mining op as bait and kill the incomming attackers. Beat them well and often and they stop comming.
- Kill the Alliance the cloaky belongs to.
- Negoatiate with Terrorists and make a deal with the red cloaky Alliance.
- Go back to WoW.
Any of the above will permanently solve your cloaky problem. Man up and use one.
So what you're saying is you caved in and quit, then went and joined a bigger alliance? So since blob helps counter cheap tactic, it's ok to use said cheap tactic? Why should someone's scout alt be completely safe 23/7, with no work required?
I've no problem if someone wants to put in work and time and to actively scout someone. Why should it be a passive, effortless, for free ability? If you really want a spy, make an alt and get them into the organization you want to keep an eye on. Completely safe as well, but at least it takes effort, and has a counter.
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Allestin Villimar
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.09 19:06:00 -
[332]
Originally by: 0ne
There are millions of threads about ninja salvaging too. Clearl....oh wait 
As soon as CCP comes out and says they intended for cloakers to afk for hours in complete safety that will be a viable point.
...in bed. |
Quixis
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Posted - 2010.09.09 19:32:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
That's why there's a million threads about this subject in the forum. Clearly everything is fine.
As soon as CCP comes out and says they didn't intend for cloakers to afk for hours in complete safety that will be a viable point.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.09.09 19:48:00 -
[334]
way to reveal your alts? lol 
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Mark Hadden
Amarr
Intergalactic Serenity
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.09.09 21:49:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Torothanax
Why should someone's scout alt be completely safe 23/7, with no work required?
because CCP gave him cloak.
Originally by: Torothanax
Why should it be a passive, effortless, for free ability?
its like local... someone comes into your system and you can instantly read that in local and go safe. Completely passive, effortless and for free.
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Kivra14
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Posted - 2010.09.09 22:22:00 -
[336]
Does everyone not get why their so bad? these cloakes are overpowered with NO counter, and everything has to have a counter. These things are also very easy to use to lock down a system. For those of you who don't support nerfing cloaks, let me know your home system and watch as i lock it down in a cloaky ship. You don't know what i'm in or where i am. I could even be ready to drop in a cap fleet to take the system.  |
Torothanax
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Posted - 2010.09.10 02:01:00 -
[337]
Edited by: Torothanax on 10/09/2010 02:04:47
Originally by: Torothanax
Why should someone's scout alt be completely safe 23/7, with no work required?
Originally by: Mark Hadden
because CCP gave him cloak.
Originally by: Torothanax
Why should it be a passive, effortless, for free ability?
Originally by: Mark Hadden
its like local... someone comes into your system and you can instantly read that in local and go safe. Completely passive, effortless and for free.
Watching local at least takes some effort and attention. Cloakers don't even have to be at the keyboard. I'm sure you were already aware of this and just hoped the rest of us hadn't thought of it.
CCP gave out cloaks, they can fix them as well.
It'd be fine by me if both cloaks and local went away completely.
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Rhadia
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Posted - 2010.09.10 02:14:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Torothanax
CCP gave out cloaks, they can fix them as well.
It'd be fine by me if both (infinite) cloaks and local went away completely.
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Mark Hadden
Amarr
Intergalactic Serenity
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.09.10 07:17:00 -
[339]
yeah, without cloaks you wont need to afk cloak, you could just logoff and switch your computer off for less electricity waste and such... but with local, you have to stay logged in order to deny the enemy the information of whether you'r afk there or even active...
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Allestin Villimar
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.10 08:27:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Quixis
As soon as CCP comes out and says they didn't intend for cloakers to afk for hours in complete safety that will be a viable point.
Because CCP has never changed anything after they put into the game.
...in bed. |
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.09.10 08:32:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Because CCP has never changed anything after they put into the game.
a good universal argument, fitting all imaginable discussions to throw this in: "because CCP alredy changed things, this one should be changed also"
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Torothanax
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Posted - 2010.09.10 09:19:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Because CCP has never changed anything after they put into the game.
a good universal argument, fitting all imaginable discussions to throw this in: "because CCP alredy changed things, this one should be changed also"
How about: When ccp added cloaks, probes were completely useless anyway, and nano ships/gangs were a much bigger threat? Hows that for why cloaks weren't a problem before and why they need to be fixed now?
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Quixis
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Posted - 2010.09.10 09:31:00 -
[343]
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
As soon as CCP comes out and says they intended for cloakers to afk for hours in complete safety that will be a viable point.
Because CCP has never changed anything after they put into the game.
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Allestin Villimar
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.10 10:44:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
a good universal argument, fitting all imaginable discussions to throw this in: "because CCP alredy changed things, this one should be changed also"
It's a reasonable argument when a lot of players have issues with something and many of the responses are nothing more than the "it's fine stop whining" opinion and CCP hasn't made a statement about it one way or the other about the topic. While the OP is far from an eloquent poster, it's clearly not fine when so many people have issues with it.
Trying to deny system use via afk cloaking has a negative effect on what people do in that system. How easy it is to take out SBs, or whether the people in the system should be on guard or not, is completely irrelevant. You're having a negative effect on them with no risk to yourself, and that's unbalanced.
...in bed. |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.09.10 10:56:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
How easy it is to take out SBs, or whether the people in the system should be on guard or not, is completely irrelevant.
its called balance
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
You're having a negative effect on them with no risk to yourself, and that's unbalanced.
psychological warfare is fine and balanced.
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Yarton Killmore
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Posted - 2010.09.10 12:33:00 -
[346]
OK just seen this post....
I fail to see what the problem is? AFK cloaking is a great way to freak out your reds..
if you cant take it move back to empire....
I fail to see how this is any different from the 20 man griefer corp camping in a 2 man mining corp....
Working as intended :D
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Allestin Villimar
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:23:00 -
[347]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
its called balance
Missing the point.
Originally by: Robert Caldera
psychological warfare is fine and balanced.
Having an effect on the enemy with no risk to yourself. That's unbalanced.
...in bed. |
Xorv
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Posted - 2010.09.10 19:24:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Originally by: Robert Caldera
its called balance
Missing the point.
Originally by: Robert Caldera
psychological warfare is fine and balanced.
Having an effect on the enemy with no risk to yourself. That's unbalanced.
Remove Local Chat and they won't have any effect on you until they are neither AFK, cloaked, nor in a position that is anywhere close to being risk free.
Generating ISK effects your enemy, since it allows you to by war materials to fight them among other things. So surely given your statements, safe PvE in Nullsec or High Sec with no real risk to yourself is unbalanced.
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Allestin Villimar
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.10 20:22:00 -
[349]
Originally by: Xorv
Remove Local Chat and they won't have any effect on you until they are neither AFK, cloaked, nor in a position that is anywhere close to being risk free.
Generating ISK effects your enemy, since it allows you to by war materials to fight them among other things. So surely given your statements, safe PvE in Nullsec or High Sec with no real risk to yourself is unbalanced.
Declare war on them if you want to stop them in high sec. If they're in a newbie corp they're hardly your enemy, and you can still suicide gank them if you want. And honestly, do you think a stealth bomber actually stops anyone from earning money? The cheap factor in it is that you can't hunt them down no matter your skills or how many people you have. It's 100% safety from a very cheap, easily trained module in every system, and that's bull****.
...in bed. |
Dred Control
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Posted - 2010.09.10 23:04:00 -
[350]
Just curious, what additional mechanics would OP like to see?
Some kind of probe that detects and/or decloaks cloakers?
A ship module that deactivates cloaks out to X km of the ship? (a cool idea I think)
A timer on the cloak?
A decloaking bubble like the warp disruption bubble?
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Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2010.09.11 03:18:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Originally by: Robert Caldera
psychological warfare is fine and balanced.
Having an effect on the enemy with no risk to yourself. That's unbalanced.
Tell that to the rest of the world. Psy-ops are perfectly fine.
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Skarfase
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Posted - 2010.09.11 18:05:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Mr LaForge
Tell that to the rest of the world. Psy-ops are perfectly fine.
Yeah, Psy-ops are fine, but it's not okay that such operations can be performed with absolutely zero risk to the attacker.
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Mrs Maltaproject
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Posted - 2010.09.11 19:26:00 -
[353]
Dude, get about 5 carriers all of one tank type with cap energy transfer, 1 remote rep of the tank type, get them a few jumps out, get a bait battleship with an UBER tank and a cyno, your black ops problem is taken care of
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Hagbard23Celine
Evoke.
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.09.13 15:37:00 -
[354]
There is always a counter but you don't get it. A cloaked ship can do what? Ahhh.... nothing, right? So why you need to counter a ship which can't shoot you? Cloaking ships are paper ships so you can easily shoot them with a proper fit, cloaking ships got a targeting delay so you can warp off if you are aligned should i continiue?
btw. nerv blobs with usless pets because against this there isn't a counter
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Allestin Villimar
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.13 15:45:00 -
[355]
Originally by: Hagbard23Celine
There is always a counter but you don't get it. A cloaked ship can do what? Ahhh.... nothing, right? So why you need to counter a ship which can't shoot you? Cloaking ships are paper ships so you can easily shoot them with a proper fit, cloaking ships got a targeting delay so you can warp off if you are aligned should i continiue?
btw. nerv blobs with usless pets because against this there isn't a counter
Point: Neutral/red in system that can't be caught and is having an effect with no risk to themselves. Having an effect with no risk to yourself = unbalanced.
Oh, and stealth bombers don't have a targeting delay after decloaking.
...in bed. |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.09.13 15:56:00 -
[356]
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Point: Neutral/red in system that can't be caught and is having an effect with no risk to themselves. Having an effect with no risk to yourself = unbalanced.
the only affect is that it reminds you to not fly around like you would be in highsec. If you need that reminder from a cloaky ship, then you did/do something wrong.
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Solid Star
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Posted - 2010.09.13 16:58:00 -
[357]
The solution is simple, get rid of local in nullsec. Then you won't feel gripped by one cloaked and everyone
is now on an equal plying field. Nullsec is becoming way too easy to make isk.
We might as well just have CCP deposit 100mil a week in each active account.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.09.13 17:02:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Point: Neutral/red in system that can't be caught and is having an effect with no risk to themselves. Having an effect with no risk to yourself = unbalanced.
I dont feel its unbalanced.
The cloaker takes the risk of getting there and every time he decloaks. Thats a fine balance.
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Hagbard23Celine
Evoke.
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.09.13 17:46:00 -
[359]
If he can't get caught he might be cloaked all the time so I guess he can't shoot. If he's going to decloak he can be shoot, seems balanced to me.
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Allestin Villimar
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.13 19:50:00 -
[360]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
I dont feel its unbalanced.
The cloaker takes the risk of getting there and every time he decloaks. Thats a fine balance.
The ships are designed to get past gate camps, but even if they weren't, they can enter before or right after downtime when there is no one camping and stay the entire time until people log in again because they're uncatchable. There's no risk to that.
As for decloaking every time you fight, that's what makes them balanced - the ability to choose your fight. Choose poorly, you probably die. Have a bit of skill and you can kill all day. I don't think anyone's recommending anything that would make it so that you can't choose your fight if you actively play. But 0.0 is 0.0, you should never be 100% safe if you aren't docked up, cloaking is no exception to that.
Originally by: darius mclever
the only affect is that it reminds you to not fly around like you would be in highsec. If you need that reminder from a cloaky ship, then you did/do something wrong.
So a neutral shows up and everyone needs to be on their toes. But the guy who's in an entire system full of neutrals doesn't?
...in bed. |
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