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Give us the TOOLS to defeat CLOAKY GRIEFERS!!

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Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 03:46:00 - [1] OK, here I am to ask CCP why they won't introduce a mechanism, a skillset that players can use to remove nuisance Cloakers who are only there to ruin the gameplay of other players who are trying to enjoy this game that they pay good money for? Come on CCP, surely you can admit that almost everyone is sick and tired of being locked down by some griefer in a system when in this game there are many ways available to give us skillsets that can make the balance a little more even. Cloaking griefers are not players in the whole sense of the word. They are spoiling the game's strategy because in itself afk cloaking is a strategy that cannot be beaten/defeated at all and that is unfair. You have balanced many other things in the game and for every armor or shield or power supply there is a way to defeat or enhance, but when it comes to cloaking and going afk nothing can be done and many players are throwing good money after bad on this game to log in and find yet again gametime wasted day after day by the same old cloaky-griefers. DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS!! PLEASE!!!! Raj.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 03:51:00 - [2] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox OK, here I am to ask CCP why they won't introduce a mechanism, a skillset that players can use to remove nuisance Cloakers who are only there to ruin the gameplay of other players who are trying to enjoy this game that they pay good money for? Come on CCP, surely you can admit that almost everyone is sick and tired of being locked down by some griefer in a system when in this game there are many ways available to give us skillsets that can make the balance a little more even. Cloaking griefers are not players in the whole sense of the word. They are spoiling the game's strategy because in itself afk cloaking is a strategy that cannot be beaten/defeated at all and that is unfair. You have balanced many other things in the game and for every armor or shield or power supply there is a way to defeat or enhance, but when it comes to cloaking and going afk nothing can be done and many players are throwing good money after bad on this game to log in and find yet again gametime wasted day after day by the same old cloaky-griefers. DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS!! PLEASE!!!! Raj. It Begins! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Octavene Ares	Posted - 2010.09.02 03:52:00 - [3] Edited by: Octavene Ares on 02/09/2010 03:53:48 /emote gets out the popcorn and beer P.S. in before the trolls get here *edit: Damnit!
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.02 03:53:00 - [4] Edited by: Lance Fighter on 02/09/2010 03:52:56 Too late, octavene. Too late. Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
Sergeant Spot Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.02 03:57:00 - [5] Personally I don't like the AFK cloakers either, and would laugh if they got nerfed. But it ain't gonna happen unless the old school 0.0 empire players start finding it impossible to 'reliably' keep their 0.0 industry up and running. CCP put a massive amount of work, and multiple expansions into getting industry based 0.0 PLAYER empires up and running, but also worked hard to keep 0.0 dangerous. Understand the above, and it becomes fairly easy to make a good rough guess about what CCP will, or won't do. (and I would like to see the AFK cloakers nerf sodomized, but I'll be really surprised (and pleased) if it happens) Having said all that, if you have some brillant idea that keeps things dangerous and does NOT make raiding become suicide, by all means, speak.... Play nice while you butcher each other.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:08:00 - [6] http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1377609 Really the only reason to Nerf Cloaks! It is sad but I didn't even read your OP and know what it says! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:09:00 - [7] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Having said all that, if you have some brillant idea that keeps things dangerous and does NOT make raiding become suicide, by all means, speak.... Well, I doubt I could have an idea that hasn't been suggested by many others somewhere, I did have a glimmer of an idea where maybe a team skillset would be needed that would allow a determind number of scanning pilots to eventually reveal a cloaked ships position. Maybe if three or five players were required with level five, advanced, expensive skillsets and very expensive scanner modules needed to reveal a cloaked ship,and some acceptable difficulty to reveal the target then the tables may be turned and the Cloaky-Griefer may feel some of the pressure system players in 0.0 feel when a red is cloaked waiting for them with his hot-dropping mods on. Surely the strength of feeling about the imbalance of afk cloaking isn't totally apathetic? Raj.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:13:00 - [8] There is a mechanic to remove cloakers. Doi. You mean introduce one that benefits YOU. Then we can get ass****d even harder by gatecampers. No thank you OP, no thank you. When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:18:00 - [9] Edited by: Rajheen Orlox on 02/09/2010 04:18:50 Originally by: Cipher Jones There is a mechanic to remove cloakers. Doi. You mean introduce one that benefits YOU. Then we can get ass****d even harder by gatecampers. No thank you OP, no thank you. I aint asking for a benefit just an even chance to defeat something that CANNOT be defeated at this point in the game. After all afk Cloaky-griefers have plenty to lose like their pay for being there eh? Raj.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:21:00 - [10] what about... catching them before they get to your system baiting them out everyone leave so they cant gather any real intel hint: Think a little bit smarter than you do to run missions. Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.

Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Edited by: Rajheen Orlox on 02/09/2010 04:18:50 Originally by: Cipher Jones There is a mechanic to remove cloakers. Doi. You mean introduce one that benefits YOU. Then we can get ass****d even harder by gatecampers. No thank you OP, no thank you. I aint asking for a benefit just an even chance to defeat something that CANNOT be defeated at this point in the game. After all afk Cloaky-griefers have plenty to lose like their pay for being there eh? Raj. What do you have to lose if they are afk? You don't want them to find out you were cybering to 4chan in local chat? No seriously what is it? When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:26:00 - [12] Originally by: Lance Fighter what about... catching them before they get to your system Could never work. You cant possibly seal a system completely and sealing a larger area is dreamland. baiting them out really you are not exp[erienced in this are you? Oh heres some cheese, oh didnt work (Cloaky Griefer spotted the trick..) everyone leave so they cant gather any real intel It's not intel they are after it's the stymying of ductive mining and industry and even ratting to destroy morale. hint: Think a little bit smarter than you do to run missions. Hint: Think a little bit smarter than you just did. Raj.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:28:00 - [13] Edited by: Rajheen Orlox on 02/09/2010 04:31:43 What do you have to lose if they are afk? You don't want them to find out you were cybering to 4chan in local chat? No seriously what is it? ---------OK--------------- Seriously, they afk most of the time to stop corporations in systems being productive. No more ****** q's please. Raj.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:30:00 - [14] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Edited by: Rajheen Orlox on 02/09/2010 04:29:32 Originally by: Lance Fighter what about... catching them before they get to your system Could never work. You cant possibly seal a system completely and sealing a larger area is dreamland. baiting them out really you are not experienced in this are you? Oh heres some cheese, oh didnt work (Cloaky Griefer spotted the trick..) everyone leave so they cant gather any real intel It's not intel they are after it's the stymying of productive mining and industry and even ratting to destroy morale. hint: Think a little bit smarter than you do to run missions. Hint: Think a little bit smarter than you just did. Raj. Which proves my point, much thanks :) Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
Aessoroz	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:35:00 - [15] Edited by: Aessoroz on 02/09/2010 04:34:47 I logged into eve just to see if he is an actually that ******ed of a blue. Answer: yes he is.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:36:00 - [16] I think you may be missing the point. Now read it slowly so you miss nothing. The mechanic in the gameplay is undefeatable. Nothing else in the game is so totally one-sided. Therefore it is unbalanced. I am requesting balance. Raj.
Bhattran	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:37:00 - [17] I'm going to become a cloaky griefer because they apparently are invulnerable. /cloaks in your system... -------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I think you may be missing the point. Now read it slowly so you miss nothing. The mechanic in the gameplay is undefeatable. Nothing else in the game is so totally one-sided. Therefore it is unbalanced. I am requesting balance. Raj. And the answer is NO, find one of the 50 other threads and post in it! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Bhattran I'm going to become a cloaky griefer because they apparently are invulnerable. /cloaks in your system... Me 2 Signature locked for editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist
Aessoroz	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I think you may be missing the point. Now read it slowly so you miss nothing. The mechanic in the gameplay is undefeatable. Nothing else in the game is so totally one-sided. Therefore it is unbalanced. I am requesting balance. Raj. It's is unbeatable, you do realize that bombers are paper ****in thin right? Any ratter with brains and that doesn't afk can pop it.

Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:39:00 - [21] damn, wheres AFK Cloaker when you need him.. Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Lance Fighter damn, wheres AFK Cloaker when you need him.. Put up the Meme signal! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Aessoroz	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:41:00 - [23] Edited by: Aessoroz on 02/09/2010 04:44:24 <nvm>
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:41:00 - [24] Originally by: Aessoroz It's is unbeatable, you do realize that bombers are paper ****in thin right? Any ratter with brains and that doesn't afk can pop it. What are you waffling on about? There are other ships than cloakers... Jeez man try to be clever elsewhere.. lol Raj.
Trig Shera	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:41:00 - [25] Downtime, your problem is solved. Stop being such a carebear that a solo bomber can kill you. Oh and in before afk cloaker
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:41:00 - [26] AFK cloaking only works against noob fail alliances. These alliances are full of massively fail dolts that will not cooperate with their alliance or anyone else really. They don't get into intel channels, they don't use voice comms, they just go around 0.0 pve'ing solo in stupidly expensive fit ships and die while anyone with a couple of brain cells do not. You could easily have a few members get into recon ships or into a counter drop squad or god forbid actually gather in a group for safety and do PvE activities. But no, you are too greedy to do such things. You want to solo in your carrier in 0.0 and do sanctums risk-free. If a hostile ever comes into local, you dock up and/or log. AFK cloaking evolved as a tactic because it was the only method available to catch a lot of 0.0 residents. If you live in 0.0 you should have to fight for it. This is EVE, this is 0.0, this is conflict, this is pvp. If you cannot handle it then HTFU or GTFO. - It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Lance Fighter damn, wheres AFK Cloaker when you need him.. You would probably know better than I.. I can smell your distaste at the thought of losing an easy income. It will be so lovely when they do make Cloaky-Griefer a thing of the past as surely they must. Raj.
AFK Cloaker Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:46:00 - [28]
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:48:00 - [29] ^.^ Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:50:00 - [30] Edited by: Rajheen Orlox on 02/09/2010 04:52:03 Originally by: Vaal Erit AFK cloaking only works against noob fail alliances. These alliances are full of massively fail dolts that will not cooperate with their alliance or anyone else really. They don't get into intel channels, they don't use voice comms, they just go around 0.0 pve'ing solo in stupidly expensive fit ships and die while anyone with a couple of brain cells do not. You could easily have a few members get into recon ships or into a counter drop squad or god forbid actually gather in a group for safety and do PvE activities. But no, you are too greedy to do such things. You want to solo in your carrier in 0.0 and do sanctums risk-free. If a hostile ever comes into local, you dock up and/or log. AFK cloaking evolved as a tactic because it was the only method available to catch a lot of 0.0 residents. If you live in 0.0 you should have to fight for it. This is EVE, this is 0.0, this is conflict, this is pvp. If you cannot handle it then HTFU or GTFO. What a load of absolute rot. You would have that we have to play the game in your way and turn ourselves into little regiments that you insist will make us all better? It doesnt matter what plans you make or prepare against Cloaky-Griefers you cannot call it even when one player has the ability to destroy so much gameplay for so many people because an ommision in game play mechanichs balancing has given him an inestimable advantage. All your tough talk and spouting is no reason to have a mechanic that is totally utterly one sided in the game. If I were to bring several dozen ships in to reveal a Cloaky-Griefer who is to say that we could ever have him reveal himself? You talk B***ocks. Raj.

Bhattran	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:50:00 - [31] Originally by: AFK Cloaker DUN DUN DUN!!! -------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:50:00 - [32] Shh! quiet, you cant do anything, theres an AFK cloaker in the thread! Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
Mr SmartGuy	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:52:00 - [33] Every time I see something from the troll/repeated-to-hell-and-back list of suggestions, I'm going to post the same chunk of text and just bold the one from the original post just so that OP can see how unoriginal/boring/<random insult about intelligence> he is. Enjoy your read: Lag, nerfing supercapitals, ability to paint your ship, changing security statuses of the systems, fixing factional warfare, removing local, nerfing afk-cloakers, removing learning skills, adding AB bonus to assault frigs, boosting blasters, boosting rockets, fixing bounties, adding PvP arena, NAP coalitions, improving UI, boosting piracy, nerfing piracy, changing wardec mechanic in highsec against carebears, boosting destroyers, removing of t2 BPOs, nerfing of ECM, changing of your in game character name, adding of small anchorable structures, redesigning POSes, chainging of cyno effect, adding trails, walking in stations and ships, development of DUST for PC, not developing DUST at all, developing Incarna, not developing Incarna at all, changing CONCORD, fixing planetary interaction, training multiple characters per account, expanding 0.0 space, making bookmarks visible in space, nerfing insurance for suicide gankers, (not)adding RL ads in game, making of highsec carebear heaven free of PvP, donating destroyed PLEXes to some random charity organisation, removing macro miners/ratters/mission runners, nerfing/removing ninja salvaging/looting, adding capital ships in empire again, nerfing Dramiel, allowing POS theft, fixing the forums and at the end, asking CCP to commit to excelence to cover anything else.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:54:00 - [34] Originally by: Mr SmartGuy Every time I see something from the troll/repeated-to-hell-and-back list of suggestions, I'm going to post the same chunk of text and just bold the one from the original post just so that OP can see how unoriginal/boring/<random insult about intelligence> he is. Enjoy your read: Lag, nerfing supercapitals, ability to paint your ship, changing security statuses of the systems, fixing factional warfare, removing local, nerfing afk-cloakers, removing learning skills, adding AB bonus to assault frigs, boosting blasters, boosting rockets, fixing bounties, adding PvP arena, NAP coalitions, improving UI, boosting piracy, nerfing piracy, changing wardec mechanic in highsec against carebears, boosting destroyers, removing of t2 BPOs, nerfing of ECM, changing of your in game character name, adding of small anchorable structures, redesigning POSes, chainging of cyno effect, adding trails, walking in stations and ships, development of DUST for PC, not developing DUST at all, developing Incarna, not developing Incarna at all, changing CONCORD, fixing planetary interaction, training multiple characters per account, expanding 0.0 space, making bookmarks visible in space, nerfing insurance for suicide gankers, (not)adding RL ads in game, making of highsec carebear heaven free of PvP, donating destroyed PLEXes to some random charity organisation, removing macro miners/ratters/mission runners, nerfing/removing ninja salvaging/looting, adding capital ships in empire again, nerfing Dramiel, allowing POS theft, fixing the forums and at the end, asking CCP to commit to excelence to cover anything else. Sir I just want you to know your my hero! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:55:00 - [35] Dear OP, There are other tactics and strategys in this 'sandbox' game besides pew-pew. Some, lead to more pew-pew.. some, help avoid it. Depends on the circumstances and what people are trying to accomplish. Give an actual valid reason as to why cloakers should be nerfed and an aspect that creates a wide variety of different potential scenarios be removed, please? Here is a good fix to what appears to be your problem.. delayed null-low local (I'd prefer it in highsec too, personally). Then, you won't even know they are there to begin with.. crisis averted! Well, unless they want you to know.. then it just gets even more fun. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:56:00 - [36] Originally by: Mr SmartGuy Every time I see something from the troll/r and at the end, asking CCP to commit to excelence to cover anything else. It's a fair request.. But please your donations are attracting more reads per reply. I just want an unfair game mechanic balanced out. Why wouldn't you? (No, dont bore me...) Raj.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:58:00 - [37] Originally by: Umega Dear OP, Here is a good fix to what appears to be your problem.. delayed null-low local (I'd prefer it in highsec too, personally). Then, you won't even know they are there to begin with.. crisis averted! Well, unless they want you to know.. then it just gets even more fun. Interesting.. A cross thread hijack. Raj.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:58:00 - [38] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Mr SmartGuy Every time I see something from the troll/r and at the end, asking CCP to commit to excelence to cover anything else. It's a fair request.. But please your donations are attracting more reads per reply. I just want an unfair game mechanic balanced out. Why wouldn't you? (No, dont bore me...) Raj. ok, lets pretend for a moment.... Instead of afk cloaker, we have corporate spy. Is corporate spy any less dangerous than an afk cloaker? Nope. Does he get in pretty much the same way, just as easily? If not easier. Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:58:00 - [39] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Mr SmartGuy Every time I see something from the troll/r and at the end, asking CCP to commit to excelence to cover anything else. It's a fair request.. But please your donations are attracting more reads per reply. I just want an unfair game mechanic balanced out. Why wouldn't you? (No, dont bore me...) Raj. Tons of reads and look at all the support! Know one thinks your ret***ed! You win EVE! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:01:00 - [40] Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Mr SmartGuy Every time I see something from the troll/r and at the end, asking CCP to commit to excelence to cover anything else. It's a fair request.. But please your donations are attracting more reads per reply. I just want an unfair game mechanic balanced out. Why wouldn't you? (No, dont bore me...) Raj. ok, lets pretend for a moment.... Instead of afk cloaker, we have corporate spy. Is corporate spy any less dangerous than an afk cloaker? Nope. Does he get in pretty much the same way, just as easily? If not easier. Yes, but he doesnt stop anyone from being able to enjoy the game because he's employing a totally un-defeatable tactic. See? Maybe you used a bad metaphore there. Raj.

Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:04:00 - [41] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Mr SmartGuy Every time I see something from the troll/r and at the end, asking CCP to commit to excelence to cover anything else. It's a fair request.. But please your donations are attracting more reads per reply. I just want an unfair game mechanic balanced out. Why wouldn't you? (No, dont bore me...) Raj. ok, lets pretend for a moment.... Instead of afk cloaker, we have corporate spy. Is corporate spy any less dangerous than an afk cloaker? Nope. Does he get in pretty much the same way, just as easily? If not easier. Yes, but he doesnt stop anyone from being able to enjoy the game because he's employing a totally un-defeatable tactic. See? Maybe you used a bad metaphore there. Raj. Nope, instead a single act can destroy the entire alliance. That not stopping anyone from being able to enjoy the game at all, is it? also, stop posting inside quotes without differentiating between your writing and someone elses writing. Its bad etiquette, and further reinforces that you are a troll. Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Mr SmartGuy Every time I see something from the troll/r and at the end, asking CCP to commit to excelence to cover anything else. It's a fair request.. But please your donations are attracting more reads per reply. I just want an unfair game mechanic balanced out. Why wouldn't you? (No, dont bore me...) Raj. Tons of reads and look at all the support! Know one thinks your ret***ed! You win EVE! For you this is about posting as many abusive remarks as you can to any OP willing to oblige.. For me it's about balance. I am also a realist I know theres virtually no chance CCP changing things I've been here long enough to know that! I also know that of the many who read and support me maybe only one or two will actually support by typing because the professional flak from people like yourselves is pretty off putting (And sad..). Raj.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:10:00 - [43] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox the professional flak from people like yourselves is pretty off putting (And sad..). Raj. ... im not sure if i should be taking this as a compliment or an insult Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:12:00 - [44] Lance (Boil?) Lol picking at the ettiquette reveals you as a true post planter. Lool. Busting an alliance hardly destroys it. If it's people are strong and motivated, well, it'll start making heaps of isk the very next day so that metaphore does.. Really Suck. 2 from 10 think of another (Teacher.) Raj.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:15:00 - [45] Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: Rajheen Orlox the professional flak from people like yourselves is pretty off putting (And sad..). Raj. ... im not sure if i should be taking this as a compliment or an insult Just take it. I must take a break and go to bed.. I will return tomorrow and see what's happening here.. Dont be too harsh it demeans your arguments. Raj.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:15:00 - [46] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Lance (Boil?) Lol picking at the ettiquette reveals you as a true post planter. Lool. Busting an alliance hardly destroys it. If it's people are strong and motivated, well, it'll start making heaps of isk the very next day so that metaphore does.. Really Suck. 2 from 10 think of another (Teacher.) Raj. kk. Raj (broski?) Lol ignoring ettiquette reveals you as a true poast playah. LOOL. AFK cloaking in a system hardly renders it useless. If it's people are strong and motivated, well, they will start making heaps of isk that very day so that metaphore does.. Really suck. -12/10. -Lance Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:22:00 - [47] Edited by: Rajheen Orlox on 02/09/2010 05:25:27 Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Lance (Boil?) Lol picking at the ettiquette reveals you as a true post planter. Lool. Busting an alliance hardly destroys it. If it's people are strong and motivated, well, it'll start making heaps of isk the very next day so that metaphore does.. Really Suck. 2 from 10 think of another (Teacher.) Raj. kk. Raj (broski?) Lol ignoring ettiquette reveals you as a true poast playah. LOOL. AFK cloaking in a system hardly renders it useless. If it's people are strong and motivated, well, they will start making heaps of isk that very day so that metaphore does.. Really suck. -12/10. -Lance Lol couldnt resist one final reply. You forget that in every single alliance (Worth it's salt..) there is a HUGE amount of Empire pilots making isk in the markets and the belts and through PI now and missions etc. No alliance dies because of a single event unless that includes a politically destructive force that breaks its membership of economically seperate Corporations apart. The Point? A single Cloaky-Griefer has the ability to stagnate a system by simply being there undetectable for unreasonable lengths of game-time using a tactic that has no counter tactic. It's unbalanced. Nil points for the metaphore. Goodnight. 07! Raj.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:22:00 - [48] any alliance worth its salt can deal with an afk cloaker. Nuff said. Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:27:00 - [49] Originally by: Lance Fighter any alliance worth its salt can deal with an afk cloaker. Nuff said. No they cannot... You cannot tell me how nor can anyone. There is no counter tactic. It's unbalanced. Raj.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:30:00 - [50] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Lance Fighter any alliance worth its salt can deal with an afk cloaker. Nuff said. No they cannot... You cannot tell me how nor can anyone. There is no counter tactic. It's unbalanced. Raj. Says it all really. Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.

Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Lance Fighter any alliance worth its salt can deal with an afk cloaker. Nuff said. No they cannot... You cannot tell me how nor can anyone. There is no counter tactic. It's unbalanced. Raj. Says it all really. Recycling is Pro!!! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:36:00 - [52] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Lance Fighter any alliance worth its salt can deal with an afk cloaker. Nuff said. No they cannot... You cannot tell me how nor can anyone. There is no counter tactic. It's unbalanced. Raj. Says it all really. Recycling is Pro!!! its still true Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
MajorBJ Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:40:00 - [53] you do realize that bombers are paper ****in thin right? Any ratter with brains and that doesn't afk can pop it. well except my nber bomber ofcourse
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 05:48:00 - [54] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Come on CCP, surely you can admit that almost everyone is sick and tired of being locked down by some griefer in a system Why should CCP admit something they don't know anything about and which is probably not true? Oh and cloakers can only lock down a system if you let them to. Quote: in itself afk cloaking is a strategy that cannot be beaten/defeated at all Sure it can: don't let yourself be locked down. Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Busting an alliance hardly destroys it. If it's people are strong and motivated, well, it'll start making heaps of isk the very next day àyou mean like how an alliance of strong and motivated people don't get their knickers in a twist over someone who just sits in the system and does nothing? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tamarant	Posted - 2010.09.02 06:19:00 - [55] If you know that he's AFK, just keep ratting/mining? If you are not sure, just keep ratting/mining and have a counter to his ship ready? Form a fleet with your mates and help each other..
Antoine Lefevre Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.09.02 06:31:00 - [56] everyone dock theres an afk cloaker in our thread!
alittlebirdy	Posted - 2010.09.02 06:45:00 - [57] Just because you are too scared to play the game with someone else in local who is afk cloaked really is not a reason to change anything. Grow some balls or get some friends and then one person really wonÆt be so scary anymore. Probing out a cloaked ship is lol, anything that can fit a covo cloak could just go full speed to nothingà you get the ship warp and by the time you warp in, the ships already 7k+ off 0. Not afk is just wtf pointlessà
Aralieus Amarr Shadowbane Syndicate	Posted - 2010.09.02 06:46:00 - [58] stfu already Recruiting
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.09.02 07:09:00 - [59] Make local delayed local and this issue goes away. To the OP, sorry that your bots are docking up with +1 in local. Try playing the game sometime.
Opertone Caldari Metalworks Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.09.02 07:18:00 - [60] ahhh, cloaking griefers - by that you mean 1 ship cloaked in local vs 40 residents. OK, but a cloaking boat does not necessarily mean a pvp ready ship. It can be just a cloaking badger. The only cloaking monster you need to worry about is a T3 - it has sufficient DPS to kill a target. Curse or stealth bomber is another example of covops ready, pvp ships. I am more cautious now.

Victor Valka Caldari Endoxa Corporation	Posted - 2010.09.02 07:23:00 - [61] Originally by: Intense Thinker Originally by: Bhattran I'm going to become a cloaky griefer because they apparently are invulnerable. /cloaks in your system... Me 2 Room for one more? Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
Lady Isabell Amarr Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.02 07:32:00 - [62] This was discussed at FanFest 2009. The idea was to have cloaking devices use an ice product, the amount per cycle used was up for debate and I believe it was suggested that it should be based upon the mass of the ship. I have no idea what the current status is or if this will ever be implemented.
Millur Minmatar Blue Sun Mining and Manufacturing	Posted - 2010.09.02 07:42:00 - [63] Can I haz your stuff? Cloaking annoyances signing out -------------------------------------------------- Meh... fock it
foksieloy Minmatar Universal Army Damu'Khonde	Posted - 2010.09.02 07:43:00 - [64] I suggest we boost cloaking. Every time someone cloaks in your system you get a message: "Booo! I am scary and I just cloaked. You do not know if I will kill you in my gimped ship with horrible lock time, or a fragile covops! Even though I am probably not here. Run! Scurry! Flee! You are not safe!" And then automatically set that persons autopilot to the nearest high sec system. _______________________ Drink Eau du Nichup«, the taste of heaven. Now available as Nichup Citrus« as well!
cheet sheet	Posted - 2010.09.02 07:55:00 - [65] This is all about YOU. cry cry one AFK cloaker get a mate and rat with hin and work as a team in this MMO. "Come on CCP, surely you can admit that almost everyone is sick and tired of being locked down" No im ok with it.
Ejit Amarr The Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 08:42:00 - [66] An afk cloaker fix would have repercussions throughout EVE. As invariably said cloaker is usually a Russian who drops and alt in system, cloaks then proceeds to farm lvl 4's all day on numerous other accounts for his RMT'ing mafia employer.
Aloe Cloveris The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple	Posted - 2010.09.02 09:13:00 - [67] No.
Hauling Hal	Posted - 2010.09.02 09:20:00 - [68] Edited by: Hauling Hal on 02/09/2010 09:23:58 I think the OP has got confused. I don't see how a cloaked ship affects anything in the game at all. As for 'no defence' against it, I find 'ignoring them' to be pretty effective. A cloaked ship does not prevent you from undocking, I think you will find that the Undock button still works the same as it did before the cloaked ship came into system. If your actual issue is a cloaked ship uncloaking and attacking you, then please say so. If there is a single cloaked ship that you are afraid may uncloak and attack you, all you need is to put some defensive ships near his prospective targets. p.s. My Harbinger will lock a Nemesis in under 2 seconds and one-shot kill it from 28 Km. Out of interest, how does the effect of an AFK cloaker differ from the effect on your game of an non-aligned, AFK Inty pilot travelling at 4 km/s or faster? I think your issue may actually be that you want a visible AFK flag (or do you just like trolling?). So what is the actual issue please?
Onyc Noziroh Caldari Altless	Posted - 2010.09.02 09:30:00 - [69] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I can smell your distaste at the thought of losing an easy income. You're the one complaining about losing your risk-free income. Aligned + local chat is just as unbeatable. Yet both ratters and AFK cloakers die all the time in 0.0
ZenSun Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2010.09.02 09:53:00 - [70] Originally by: Octavene Ares Edited by: Octavene Ares on 02/09/2010 03:53:48 /emote gets out the popcorn and beer P.S. in before the trolls get here *edit: Damnit! Eww, beer and popcorn?

Jareck Hunter Rubicon Legion	Posted - 2010.09.02 10:05:00 - [71] Edited by: Jareck Hunter on 02/09/2010 10:08:23 Edited by: Jareck Hunter on 02/09/2010 10:06:01 Originally by: Hauling Hal Edited by: Hauling Hal on 02/09/2010 09:23:58 I think the OP has got confused. I don't see how a cloaked ship affects anything in the game at all. As for 'no defence' against it, I find 'ignoring them' to be pretty effective. If there is a single cloaked ship that you are afraid may uncloak and attack you, all you need is to put some defensive ships near his prospective targets. p.s. My Harbinger will lock a Nemesis in under 2 seconds and one-shot kill it from 28 Km. Out of interest, how does the effect of an AFK cloaker differ from the effect on your game of an non-aligned, AFK Inty pilot travelling at 4 km/s or faster? I think your issue may actually be that you want a visible AFK flag (or do you just like trolling?). So what is the actual issue please? Ignoring them, good tip. When he decloaks next to you and warp scramles you, you can not ignore it and warp away^^. Or when he opens a cyno someday and a nice fleet hotdrops you. Oh i love those people that alsways say get some protection, i think those people just love to stand next to a carebear and sitting there doing nothing while the "hostile" is safe and afk. Sounds fun, right? The issue is that you can't kill a cloaked ship at a safespot, if i'm wrong please tell me how. And cause of the fact that they can sit there 23/7 afk and only get decloaked when they want, gives you no chance to kill them during that time. So the old meme of "if you undock you risk your ship" doesn't work for afk cloaked ships. You all like killing ships in space or? The Op only ask for a way to kill somebody who should be killable when he undocks and sits somewhere afk. Indus shouln't fly afk throug empire, why should somebody in 0.0 be safer? Maybe a special scanning array, that can be placed somewhere in the system, which finds cloaked ships could help. But it has to be destroyable and we would get a new target for small gang pvp.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 10:14:00 - [72] Originally by: Jareck Hunter Ignoring them, good tip. When he decloaks next to you and warp scramles youà àthen you blow him up. Oh andà Quote: i think those people just love to stand next to a carebear and sitting there doing nothing while the "hostile" is safe and afk. àhe's not AFK either. Quote: So the old meme of "if you undock you risk your ship" doesn't work for afk cloaked ships. Sure it does. He didn't just teleport there, and he can't do anything while he's there. The instant he's of any threat or use whatsoever, he's at risk.
Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.09.02 10:24:00 - [73] Edited by: Freyya on 02/09/2010 10:26:54 it's been said probably a bazillion times already but here goes nothing. If there's an AFK cloaker in your system here's what you do; 1: form up a fleet and start mining in numbers with combat ships around. Threat resolved since not a single cloaky griefer will grief when he has a 99% chance of getting popped. 2: form a fleet and start ratting with combat ships around. Same result as above. 2.1: Bait the hell out of him with a single hulk and combat ships ready to warp in. Don't forget those fast tacklers. 3: If you can't kill an AFK cloaker because he sits in your system 23/7 AFK then don't worry, he can't kill you either because HE'S AFK?! 4: If you're worried about getting hotdropped then don't worry. It usually takes a carrier longer to lock you than for you to initiate warp the second you see a cyno open up. You might even have the time to stick some med drones on the cyno cov ops and kill it before you actually enter warp. A cynoing ship can't do anything you know. 5: If you need to haul your ** then do it with a small fleet of battlecruisers fitted with ecm. You get out, the AFK cloaker gets killed. 6: It's called an MMO for a reason; BRING FRIENDS. Last resort; 7: Ragequit and give a random person your crap if you're not able to do any of the above because you're scared **less you might get ganked or griefed by an AFK griefer who's actually AFK. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.09.02 10:25:00 - [74] Solution is simple and balanced. Cloaks should require a crystal that wears out like laser/mining crystals.
Jareck Hunter Rubicon Legion	Posted - 2010.09.02 10:27:00 - [75] I wanna see the killmail when a Hulk killes a Widow^^ Why is he not afk? You don't know. Ah you mean camping all gates leading into your system/space 23/7, yeah good solution... whats the difference to sitting next to your carebears again? Btw somebody will always slip throug. And what about wormholes?^^ The thing of having risk while being afk cloaked has to be explained more i think. And he has a use there and can do something, why can't he? ------------------------------------------------- Sorry for my bad english^^
Stitcher Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.09.02 10:29:00 - [76] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox The mechanic in the gameplay is undefeatable. Well actually it's kind of self-defeating, because if you're AFK then *you're NOT DOING ANYTHING.* Seriously, if they're AFK then it's not the cloaker who's the problem, it's your own cowardice and rampant lack of any kind of testicular or spinal fortitude. Harden. The. F**k. UP! - - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
heheheh Ecliptic Refuge	Posted - 2010.09.02 10:32:00 - [77] how does one guy actually manage to stop you doing anything. ? Its hilarious that these carebear corps have production and everything else they do halted, because of ONE GUY in a cloaked ship. Seriously, One person cannot do anything against a corp alone, you outnumber him so maybe do everything you do in teams instead of solo ? If he cynos people in you can see the cyno, plus you can see them arrive in local, i dont see the problem, if one cloaker scares you and you cant defend yourself you shouldnt even be there, your only paying to log on and do nothing because of your own stupidity.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2010.09.02 10:34:00 - [78] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox OK, here I am to ask CCP why they won't introduce a mechanism, a skillset that players can use to remove nuisance Cloakers who are only there to ruin the gameplay of other players who are trying to enjoy this game that they pay good money for? Come on CCP, surely you can admit that almost everyone is sick and tired of being locked down by some griefer in a system when in this game there are many ways available to give us skillsets that can make the balance a little more even. Cloaking griefers are not players in the whole sense of the word. They are spoiling the game's strategy because in itself afk cloaking is a strategy that cannot be beaten/defeated at all and that is unfair. You have balanced many other things in the game and for every armor or shield or power supply there is a way to defeat or enhance, but when it comes to cloaking and going afk nothing can be done and many players are throwing good money after bad on this game to log in and find yet again gametime wasted day after day by the same old cloaky-griefers. DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS!! PLEASE!!!! Raj. Stop being stupid. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Mike TheMiner	Posted - 2010.09.02 10:34:00 - [79] How does this one person stop entire corp production ? Only thing i can think of that a cloaker would stop me doing is solo ratting.
Ran Khanon Amarr Swords Horses and Heavy Metal	Posted - 2010.09.02 10:38:00 - [80] Originally by: Mike TheMiner How does this one person stop entire corp production ? Only thing i can think of that a cloaker would stop me doing is solo ratting. They might use macro ratters/miners with auto-dock functions triggered by unknown people popping up in system :-/ Recruiting.

Neddy Fox Gallente FireStar Inc Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.09.02 10:39:00 - [81] There is no defence against a cloaker, as long as he stays cloked. TRUE. He isn't a threat either. Or didn't you know you can't activate modules when cloaked? There is no defence against a cloaker. FALSE. The moment he uncloaks you can kill him, and any single one of them are pretty paper thin. If you got ****d by a single red in a system full of blues YOU are doing it wrong, not CCP. It's balanced enough, if YOU are putting efford in it.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 10:54:00 - [82] Originally by: Jareck Hunter I wanna see the killmail when a Hulk killes a Widow^^ Considering the strength of the Widow, I wouldn't be surprisedà And still: that's not a problem with cloaking, but with the miner being alone and unsupported. In other words, it's his problem. Quote: Why is he not afk? You don't know. Yes I do: he uncloaked and turned on his scramblerà Quote: Ah you mean camping all gates leading into your system/space 23/7, yeah good solution... whats the difference to sitting next to your carebears again? Do they pull their weight? Are you actually defending your assets? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.09.02 10:56:00 - [83] Originally by: Jareck Hunter @Freya: Thats all nice, but these are only solutions if he attacks, there are no ways to find him and attack him and thats the problem. If somebody is in space he should be killable. If he is inside a pos you can kill the pos first and then the ship (Bubbles to catch him inside). C'mon, seriously? The only threat he poses is when he attacks. If he doesn't attack he's not a threat and you can go about your business. He might be a threat but only when he attacks. When he attacks he's a threat but you're also a threat since you can see and lock him and that makes him less of a threat. You don't need to go and find him, he'll find you and then you've found him. Here's a prime example of how you kill a cloaky afk'er; http://kb.redalliance.ru/index.php?op=kill&id=377333. Be your own cloaky afk'er in system. Ohh and the part of killing a POS and then the ship? You're reaching, srsly, reaching.. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:20:00 - [84] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox OK, here I am to ask CCP why they won't introduce a mechanism, a skillset that players can use to remove nuisance Cloakers who are only there to ruin the gameplay of other players who are trying to enjoy this game that they pay good money for? Come on CCP, surely you can admit that almost everyone is sick and tired of being locked down by some griefer in a system when in this game there are many ways available to give us skillsets that can make the balance a little more even. Cloaking griefers are not players in the whole sense of the word. They are spoiling the game's strategy because in itself afk cloaking is a strategy that cannot be beaten/defeated at all and that is unfair. You have balanced many other things in the game and for every armor or shield or power supply there is a way to defeat or enhance, but when it comes to cloaking and going afk nothing can be done and many players are throwing good money after bad on this game to log in and find yet again gametime wasted day after day by the same old cloaky-griefers. DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS!! PLEASE!!!! Raj. Straight up... You're a whiny b*tch and posting this on public forums, the eve general forums none the less just shows how spineless and a waste of space you are. Don't like the cloaky guy in your system, get in a ship bait him with a fleet of your friends. From your US TZ FC.. GL HF.
Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:25:00 - [85] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Mr SmartGuy Every time I see something from the troll/r and at the end, asking CCP to commit to excelence to cover anything else. It's a fair request.. But please your donations are attracting more reads per reply. I just want an unfair game mechanic balanced out. Why wouldn't you? (No, dont bore me...) Raj. It's not unfair dude. Do it back to them they have ratting systems they wish the cloaky guy wasn't in. Bait them... when they cov-ops bridge, mess em up (or get messed up). But try... coming to the forums and whining about it won't change anything. Getting in a combat ship and shooting another ship will.
d026 Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:27:00 - [86] i also dont like that afk cloaking is so damn easy. they should put autorepeat off the module.. so you have to manualy trigger a new cycle. cycle can be long tough 5-10mins
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:28:00 - [87] Edited by: Dr Sheepbringer on 02/09/2010 11:28:44 Keep a looksie on your directional scanner. When you see a probe or a ship. Get out. Simple. I imagine you are talking about missions, because if you are not...stop whining it's eve. Stop whining.
Omal Omal	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:33:00 - [88] Edited by: Omal Omal on 02/09/2010 11:34:52 wrong toon...
Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:35:00 - [89] Edited by: Zagdul on 02/09/2010 11:35:22 Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer Edited by: Dr Sheepbringer on 02/09/2010 11:28:44 Keep a looksie on your directional scanner. When you see a probe or a ship. Get out. Simple. I imagine you are talking about missions, because if you are not...stop whining it's eve. That doesn't work. Anomalies can be scanned with a system scanner, they don't require a probe. Some ships can warp cloaked... these ships can also light covert cynos which can't be jammed. The only defense to this is to amass a fleet large/powerful enough to counter the drop. Which isn't hard, if you try. There are some balancing issues I wouldn't mind addressing... 1. You cannot refuel a blops ship who's bridge is active. 2. You cannot warp cloaked when you have a cov ops generator equipped. These two things would be nice. This way you can try to predict what is coming through and at least make an attempt to counter it.
RandomYarrr	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:40:00 - [90] lulz? http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=6469216

Slik Minmatar Brutal Deliverance	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:40:00 - [91] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox OK, here I am to ask CCP why they won't introduce a mechanism, a skillset that players can use to remove nuisance Cloakers who are only there to ruin the gameplay of other players who are trying to enjoy this game that they pay good money for? Come on CCP, surely you can admit that almost everyone is sick and tired of being locked down by some griefer in a system when in this game there are many ways available to give us skillsets that can make the balance a little more even. Cloaking griefers are not players in the whole sense of the word. They are spoiling the game's strategy because in itself afk cloaking is a strategy that cannot be beaten/defeated at all and that is unfair. You have balanced many other things in the game and for every armor or shield or power supply there is a way to defeat or enhance, but when it comes to cloaking and going afk nothing can be done and many players are throwing good money after bad on this game to log in and find yet again gametime wasted day after day by the same old cloaky-griefers. DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS!! PLEASE!!!! Raj. I've noticed a problem with what you're saying here... You say they are cloaky griefers but are afk. So if they are AFK whats the problem? Quit whining. Jeez. Yep.
Kireiina	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:45:00 - [92] Edited by: Kireiina on 02/09/2010 11:47:26 It is poor game design that a cloaked ship can project force (by occupying enemy territory and being a potential threat) while AFK with no practical means of retaliation. Either there should be some way of tracking down a poor or AFK cloaker or the cloak effect needs some sort of maximum duration. But, eh, it's CCP so maybe they'll do something about it in a couple of years.
Slik Minmatar Brutal Deliverance	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:47:00 - [93] Originally by: Wyke Mossari Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 02/09/2010 10:51:42 The solution is simple and balanced. Cloaks should stop/fail/end at essentially random periods. Something that can be dealt with by a AK player but is highly risky for an AFK player. Cloaks should require fuel/supplies that is consumed or a crystal that wears out like laser/mining crystals. I'll take whatever he's drinking. Yep.
Arasul Gallente	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:47:00 - [94] Edited by: Arasul on 02/09/2010 11:47:39 Originally by: RandomYarrr lulz? http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=6469216 OP's carebear yawn waggon got blowed up by ebil piwat. /thread ninja edit: loling at 1 bill lost
Scott Ryder Amarr art of eve Gunmen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:49:00 - [95] Originally by: Kireiina It is poor game design that a cloaked ship can project force while AFK with no practical means of retaliation. Either there should be some way of tracking down a poor or AFK cloaker or the cloak effect needs some sort of maximum duration. But, eh, it's CCP so maybe they'll do something about it in a couple of years. Either that or people could stop whining about it and playing the game as it is?
Max Khaos Limited Liabilty Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:49:00 - [96] Ships desgined to cloak ...... should cloak and be able to stay that way ... Everything else shouldn't be able to fit the (5000 cpu)
Scott Ryder Amarr art of eve Gunmen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:51:00 - [97] Originally by: Arasul Edited by: Arasul on 02/09/2010 11:47:39 Originally by: RandomYarrr lulz? http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=6469216 OP's carebear yawn waggon got blowed up by ebil piwat. /thread ninja edit: loling at 1 bill lost op doesnt want to pvp, he wants to see the "cloaky griefers" so that he can pve in his system all by himself. I suggest he should get the **** back to highsec and carebear there like everyone else in safe enviroments.
Destruct0	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:51:00 - [98] Originally by: Max Khaos Ships desgined to cloak ...... should cloak and be able to stay that way ... Everything else shouldn't be able to fit the (5000 cpu) Stop feeding the troll...
RandomYarrr	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:54:00 - [99] Originally by: Scott Ryder Originally by: Arasul Edited by: Arasul on 02/09/2010 11:47:39 Originally by: RandomYarrr lulz? http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=6469216 OP's carebear yawn waggon got blowed up by ebil piwat. /thread ninja edit: loling at 1 bill lost op doesnt want to pvp, he wants to see the "cloaky griefers" so that he can pve in his system all by himself. I suggest he should get the **** back to highsec and carebear there like everyone else in safe enviroments. I wonder if the Cynabal had a cloak on it...wouldnt be the first time :P
Javelin6 Dirt Nap Squad	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:56:00 - [100] Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: Rajheen Orlox The mechanic in the gameplay is undefeatable. Well actually it's kind of self-defeating, because if you're AFK then *you're NOT DOING ANYTHING.* Seriously, if they're AFK then it's not the cloaker who's the problem, it's your own cowardice and rampant lack of any kind of testicular or spinal fortitude. Harden. The. F**k. UP! This. ______________________________________________

Aggelos Theristes	Posted - 2010.09.02 11:58:00 - [101] The only thing AFK cloaking can defeat 100% of the time is botting. I've AFK'd in null sec systems (via my wormhole) and seen ratters pos up for hours on end, the minute I disappear from local they're back. I log off and go to bed, and log on about 12 hours later.... LOOK WHO IT IS! IT'S BOTTY MCBOT! If you're afraid of an AFK cloaker, who has been in local for days and not done anything, then get some alts in adjacent systems... or go back to high sec tbh. Local could always be removed, then you wouldn't know the AFK cloaker was there in the first place and wouldn't have anything to worry about. I'd support that idea!
Hauling Hal	Posted - 2010.09.02 12:05:00 - [102] Edited by: Hauling Hal on 02/09/2010 12:06:48 Today's TOP TIP. Read all of the post before writing your reply, as this will prevent you from looking like an idiot: Originally by: Jareck Hunter Ignoring them, good tip. When he decloaks next to you and warp scramles you, you can not ignore it and warp away^^. Or when he opens a cyno someday and a nice fleet hotdrops you. I think you may find that he isn't AFK if he can warp scramble you. Originally by: Jareck Hunter Oh i love those people that alsways say get some protection, i think those people just love to stand next to a carebear and sitting there doing nothing while the "hostile" is safe and afk. Sounds fun, right? I am still waiting for the difference between the AFK Inty and the AFK Cloaker. Neither of which can be attacked and both of which provide a threat. See, the issue isn't the cloak, it's that someone might attack you. Now, if you had a combat ship or logisticc with your carebears, then the hostile may decide that the risk isn't worth it and go somewhere else. The only reason they choose to attack you is because you are clueless. Care Bear Options: 1. Get rid of AFK cloaking or 2. Get a clue I think you'll find Option 2 is what you are meant to do.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.02 12:05:00 - [103] AFK cloakers are the only ships in Eve with a built-in PVP flag. See a target. Approach it. Think you can take it? Then click the PVP flag ON (turn off cloak and engage). Don't think you can take it? Keep PVP flag OFF and laugh. No need to dock or log off. Go to the movies. Have some pizza. You'll be safe and cozy. Meanwhile, keep everyone else on their toes. After all, it is a cruel and harsh universe... Well, for almost everybody :P. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Hauling Hal	Posted - 2010.09.02 12:08:00 - [104] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Think you can take it? Then click the PVP flag ON (turn off cloak and engage). Don't think you can take it? Keep PVP flag OFF and laugh. Thanks for agreeing that it is really easy to make them stay cloaked by making the target difficult to kill. Thus, they stay cloaked and can continue to be ignored.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 12:11:00 - [105] Originally by: Kireiina It is poor game design that a cloaked ship can project force (by occupying enemy territory and being a potential threat) while AFK with no practical means of retaliation. Good news, then: they can't. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.02 12:12:00 - [106] Originally by: Hauling Hal Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Think you can take it? Then click the PVP flag ON (turn off cloak and engage). Don't think you can take it? Keep PVP flag OFF and laugh. Thanks for agreeing that it is really easy to make them stay cloaked by making the target difficult to kill. Thus, they stay cloaked and can continue to be ignored. Yes. I hear mining and PVE ships can keep them cloaked for hours on end. "But you're not supposed to be safe. You're supposed to be alert all the time and you're supposed to fly with friends... Well, unless you fly a cloaky like me... But but... um nevermind". Hypocrisy at its best. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.02 12:15:00 - [107] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Kireiina It is poor game design that a cloaked ship can project force (by occupying enemy territory and being a potential threat) while AFK with no practical means of retaliation. Good news, then: they can't. Then someone forgot to hand out the memo to the gangs of cloakers out there. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.09.02 12:19:00 - [108] There are very very few single cloaking ships that actually are a threat to any one single ship. Even if the ship decloaks and wants to engage you, the likelihood of you escaping is very high, because of the time to target etc. If you know it's there and you must carebear then just be on your toes. A group of cloaking ships, then yes that is threatening, but no more than a group of non cloakies in your system. It's always blown out of proportion how dangerous they are to ships. If I'm ratting sec status up, I'm much more scared of a very obvious Vagabond or Cynabal entering system than I am of something like a pilgrim or even the for-mentioned HAC's with cloaks fitted. And if you are carebearing, then the ship you are using, if threats exist, should be cheap enough that you can make the money to replace it in very little time at all plus some more. Or you carebear in a ship that would be pretty hard to kill or at least have a fighting chance, like a nano cane or something, rather than an active tanked pure PVE fitted ship. Most cloak fitted ships have only a small selection of ship types they can actually attack and destroy easily on their own. Fly such things and they don't decloak to attack you.
Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 12:23:00 - [109] Originally by: Hannibal Ord There are very very few single cloaking ships that actually are a threat to any one single ship. Even if the ship decloaks and wants to engage you, the likelihood of you escaping is very high, because of the time to target etc. If you know it's there and you must carebear then just be on your toes. A group of cloaking ships, then yes that is threatening, but no more than a group of non cloakies in your system. It's always blown out of proportion how dangerous they are to ships. If I'm ratting sec status up, I'm much more scared of a very obvious Vagabond or Cynabal entering system than I am of something like a pilgrim or even the for-mentioned HAC's with cloaks fitted. And if you are carebearing, then the ship you are using, if threats exist, should be cheap enough that you can make the money to replace it in very little time at all plus some more. Or you carebear in a ship that would be pretty hard to kill or at least have a fighting chance, like a nano cane or something, rather than an active tanked pure PVE fitted ship. Most cloak fitted ships have only a small selection of ship types they can actually attack and destroy easily on their own. Fly such things and they don't decloak to attack you. You're forgetting the blops bridge. While OP is whining and needs to HTFU, don't make it more simple than it is. A stealth bomber can quickly turn into 3-4 blackops with 5-6 recons and a few stealth bombers to boot. I've done it with a fleet of about 20 stealth bombers. We just about insta popped a tengu. This is why I'm against OP's rant... I do it also, I'm in his alliance and this is one of the most fun things to do in this game.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 12:25:00 - [110] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Then someone forgot to hand out the memo to the gangs of cloakers out there. No. Someone forgot to hand out the memo to the self-appointed victims ù after all, their whole perceptions of themselves hinges on this false notion. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

Captain Yifan Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.09.02 12:32:00 - [111] Give us the tool to ban any stupid troll who starts the n'th post about 'afk' cloakers. Oh yea, cloaked ships are so overpowered now that they dont require a human at the keyboard to scout out ****s and cyno stuff in.
Cabara Netas AFK Cloakies	Posted - 2010.09.02 12:51:00 - [112] OP Sounds REALLY, REALLY mad. Tell us, What did you lose? Oh, also on an unrelated note, you live over here, right? Also, you have good people in your alliance, how did you get in there OP? Originally by: Zagdul Do it back to them they have ratting systems they wish the cloaky guy wasn't in. Bait them... when they cov-ops bridge, mess em up (or get messed up). But try... coming to the forums and whining about it won't change anything. Getting in a combat ship and shooting another ship will. Originally by: Zagdul Don't like the cloaky guy in your system, get in a ship bait him with a fleet of your friends. From your US TZ FC.. GL HF. Have mah babies.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:00:00 - [113] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Then someone forgot to hand out the memo to the gangs of cloakers out there. No. Someone forgot to hand out the memo to the self-appointed victims ù after all, their whole perceptions of themselves hinges on this false notion. Right. If you fly a PVE/mining ship you are a self-appointed victim. Got it. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
MajorBJ Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:01:00 - [114] Originally by: d026 i also dont like that afk cloaking is so damn easy. they should put autorepeat off the module.. so you have to manualy trigger a new cycle. cycle can be long tough 5-10mins OMG
Killerjock	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:04:00 - [115] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox OK, here I am to ask CCP why they won't introduce a mechanism, a skillset that players can use to remove nuisance Cloakers who are only there to ruin the gameplay of other players who are trying to enjoy this game that they pay good money for? Come on CCP, surely you can admit that almost everyone is sick and tired of being locked down by some griefer in a system when in this game there are many ways available to give us skillsets that can make the balance a little more even. Almost everyone. Except that I've never met anyone outside these forums (that is, in eve, the game) that gives a damn about "cloaky griefers". DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS!! PLEASE!!!! Raj. Yawn.
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:04:00 - [116] So you won't run sanctums with an AFK cloaker in system? lol If you aren't willing to do that then go back to empire - simple. Then I'm sure you will be back whining about Ninja Salvagers. It never ends really. Stop asking for the game to change because you refuse to play a MMORPG which this is. click here
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:08:00 - [117] Edited by: Tippia on 02/09/2010 13:11:59 Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Right. If you fly a PVE/mining ship you are a self-appointed victim. Got it. No. If you're afraid of something that is AFK, you are a self-appointed victim. If he attacks you, he is not AFK, and standard precautions apply. If you refuse to employ standard precautions, you are once again a self-appointed victim. Whether you're frying a PvE, mining, transport, PvP, or a red-nosed clown ship is entirely irrelevant. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:12:00 - [118] Excuse me slowly raises hand I have a question? Why do we play into these threads, I prepose a way to stop these Cloak whiners. We tell them there right, treat them like there special, very special. Let them think we give two F*cks about them then laugh behind there backs! Because calling them stupid to there face is not working anymore. We have to stop the madness of these threads! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
True Sight THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:22:00 - [119] This thread has come up a hundred or more times, people whine and complain, but it keeps coming up for valid reasons. A single cloaked low-skilled alt can effectively lock down a system and limit its usefulness. those 20 Hulks can't sit comfortably in the hidden belt, your Orca pilot doesn't feel comfortable taking the jump-bridge into the system or warping to the belt to scoop the ore. You're rorqual for the compression and ganglinks is unwilling to jump into the system to help because there is a huge risk of a super-cap hot-drop. As stated in the thread, there's no protection, combat etc of that for these, apart form keeping an entire combat-gang on standby at all times, which ultimately isn't fun (this is a game, its supposed to be fun remember?) 1) You have a support fleet for your mining op / pve activities - PvE's get to do what they want, mine, rat etc - PvPers will most certainly sit around and do absolutely nothing, or join in on the pve too, because whilst there's a gang protecting the system, there won't be any hot drops - on the other hand, you could have a hostile 100man gang dropped on your head on top of your entire mining fleet, or some guys Marauder. 2) You don't have a fleet - Your caps get locked down and super-cap ganked - smaller guys get bombed - pve ships get locked down and ganked Either option isn't fun or interesting, and the cloaked player has the entire advantage, because they can go AFK for 5 hours, come back and help hot-drop a jump freighter. Solution? not really sure, but it would be good if there was a change of some-sort, I quite like the cloak using a fuel, heavy water or something loaded into the module like cap charges, so there's a finite limit to cloaking per session or something. -------------------------------------- True Sight President Foiritan Emissary --<<!SUPPORT DRONES!>>--
annoing Amarr Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:24:00 - [120] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox troll --- Nice troll attempt but unltimate fail is ultimate. Crawl back under your rock little bug, crawl. This sig is unrelated to any relatives

Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:26:00 - [121] (>'o')>-(I snipe this, The Ops an Idiot!) -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Doddy The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:32:00 - [122] Maybe they could do some sort of cloak nerf if they got rid of local and nerfed the directional scanner as well, otherwise you are just making the ridiculously safe ratting proffession even more so. As it is at the moment you have to be pretty fail to die ratting. I have to ask have you done anything to try and deal with these cloakers? Set a trap perhaps? Or simply rat in a cheap set up which you know can kill the cyno-ship (which will be immobile and horribly vulnerable) thereby winning the isk war? Do you align while ratting? A maneuverable ship will warp before a recon can lock (thanks to the cloaking device penalty) while bombers are paper thin and one volley will kill one that has activated cyno. Or fit a smartbomb boat with MWD and race to the cyno and blast anything which comes through. Or have your own cloaker sitting waiting for a cloaker to uncloak ad hot drop the hot drop. Really the possibilities are endless much like anything else in this game. If you are saying a gang of 6 or 7 people flying expensive fitted t2 cov-ops pvp ships spending a large amount of time waiting for a suitable target to ambush shouldn't be able to attack your cookie cutter npcer then you just don't get eve.
King Gore The Church of Sentcha	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:43:00 - [123] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Edited by: Rajheen Orlox on 02/09/2010 04:52:03 Originally by: Vaal Erit AFK cloaking only works against noob fail alliances. These alliances are full of massively fail dolts that will not cooperate with their alliance or anyone else really. They don't get into intel channels, they don't use voice comms, they just go around 0.0 pve'ing solo in stupidly expensive fit ships and die while anyone with a couple of brain cells do not. You could easily have a few members get into recon ships or into a counter drop squad or god forbid actually gather in a group for safety and do PvE activities. But no, you are too greedy to do such things. You want to solo in your carrier in 0.0 and do sanctums risk-free. If a hostile ever comes into local, you dock up and/or log. AFK cloaking evolved as a tactic because it was the only method available to catch a lot of 0.0 residents. If you live in 0.0 you should have to fight for it. This is EVE, this is 0.0, this is conflict, this is pvp. If you cannot handle it then HTFU or GTFO. What a load of absolute rot. You would have that we have to play the game in your way and turn ourselves into little regiments that you insist will make us all better? It doesnt matter what plans you make or prepare against Cloaky-Griefers you cannot call it even when one player has the ability to destroy so much gameplay for so many people because an ommision in game play mechanichs balancing has given him an inestimable advantage. All your tough talk and spouting is no reason to have a mechanic that is totally utterly one sided in the game. If I were to bring several dozen ships in to reveal a Cloaky-Griefer who is to say that we could ever have him reveal himself? You talk B**ocks. Raj. runs a locator on Rajheen Orlox* See you soon!
DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:51:00 - [124] Correct me if Iam wrong. AFK = Away From Keyboard. Unless an eve player has found a way to pvp away from their key board then I have a hard time understanding how a AFK person can kill you. About all he can do is disturb your sense of security. The other thing i dont understand is how you know he is AFK if the only time you see him is when he is killing you with his friends. Matter fact I cant remeber a time ever in this game that I died to a afk player. So what you are saying is you are dieing to a PVP macro. LOL. So now we have macro miners, macro ratters and macro pvpers. Iam fed up with AFK+ people in JITA, AFK MINERS, AFK RATTERS, AFK MARKET TRADERS, AFK MISSION RUNNERS, AFK GATE CAMPERS, AFK GRIEFERS, AFK NINJA SALVAGERS, ok lets just rap this up AFK PLAYERS IN EVE. LOL I hope you see your argument is not against cloakers but AFKERS. Now CCP give us game skills so we can detect AFKERS. Or better yet declare AFKING an exploit and band them. Challenge yourself and learn to play eve it is a hard game and that is what we enjoy.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:58:00 - [125] Originally by: Zagdul Edited by: Zagdul on 02/09/2010 11:29:24 Don't like the cloaky guy in your system, get in a ship bait him with a fleet of your friends. From your US TZ FC.. GL HF. Thats Rich!! Because you cant and don't do anything either! I repeat there is NO way to defeat a Cloaky Greifer and I will pay any one a billion isk to PROVE there is a methed that works to reveal a random Cloaky Griefers position. Come on clever guys your so abundant in here. Now tell us all what your empty arguments are really worth I have 9 bil in my account and want to give a bil away. No silly stupid comments or ignorance that will never work just a proven method. Because there is none. You cannot defeat something as unbalanced as Cloaky griefing. Raj.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:06:00 - [126] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I repeat there is NO way to defeat a Cloaky Greifer Yes there is: don't let him grief you. It's really that simple. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:10:00 - [127] this thread has griefed me more than an AFK Cloaker has griefed you. click here
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:10:00 - [128] Originally by: Scott Ryder Originally by: Kireiina It is poor game design that a cloaked ship can project force while AFK with no practical means of retaliation. Either there should be some way of tracking down a poor or AFK cloaker or the cloak effect needs some sort of maximum duration. But, eh, it's CCP so maybe they'll do something about it in a couple of years. Either that or people could stop whining about it and playing the game as it is? If we play the game as it is it will NEVER get better, thankfully, stooges like yourself have no say in the ongoing development of this game. Raj.
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:12:00 - [129] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Scott Ryder Originally by: Kireiina It is poor game design that a cloaked ship can project force while AFK with no practical means of retaliation. Either there should be some way of tracking down a poor or AFK cloaker or the cloak effect needs some sort of maximum duration. But, eh, it's CCP so maybe they'll do something about it in a couple of years. Either that or people could stop whining about it and playing the game as it is? If we play the game as it is it will NEVER get better, thankfully, stooges like yourself have no say in the ongoing development of this game. Raj. Thankfully CCP doesn't make design decisions based on your need to play a single player game. Go back to high sec and whine about ninja salvagers. click here
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:13:00 - [130] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Scott Ryder Originally by: Kireiina It is poor game design that a cloaked ship can project force while AFK with no practical means of retaliation. Either there should be some way of tracking down a poor or AFK cloaker or the cloak effect needs some sort of maximum duration. But, eh, it's CCP so maybe they'll do something about it in a couple of years. Either that or people could stop whining about it and playing the game as it is? If we play the game as it is it will NEVER get better, thankfully, stooges like yourself have no say in the ongoing development of this game. Raj. And you think you do, when CCP looks at this there gonna see your tears, pat each other on the back and go back to work on important things! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist

Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:14:00 - [131] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I repeat there is NO way to defeat a Cloaky Greifer Yes there is: don't let him grief you. It's really that simple. This is just a sound byte worthless in actual content and not applicable to the fact that Cloaks are utterly imbalanced and that they are the only tactic in the game other players can do NOTHING about. (Including yourself..) If you are never concerned about a Cloaked ship in 0.0 then you are a fool or a liar. Raj.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:15:00 - [132] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I repeat there is NO way to defeat a Cloaky Greifer Yes there is: don't let him grief you. It's really that simple. This is just a sound byte worthless in actual content and not applicable to the fact that Cloaks are utterly imbalanced and that they are the only tactic in the game other players can do NOTHING about. (Including yourself..) If you are never concerned about a Cloaked ship in 0.0 then you are a fool or a liar. Raj. We are concerned, we just don't wet ourselves and cry on the forums. Has someone suggested wormholes for you yet? -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:16:00 - [133] Originally by: Riedle this thread has griefed me more than an AFK Cloaker has griefed you. All the idiots defending the undefendable Grief me too. The idiots slinging abuse are a laugh though. hehe :) Raj.
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:17:00 - [134] I, for one, am surprised that the OP, whining about a valid game mechanic and wants it changed just for him, seems unable to brook any criticism of his idea as it were. ego much? lol click here
Loki Sei	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:18:00 - [135] Edited by: Loki Sei on 02/09/2010 14:19:25 Want to talk about unbalanced, I spend all this Isk on a cloaky ship, invest the skills to be able to have you not see me, and CCP requires me to plug into every local channel in 0.0 where they dont even have any authority. I want a skill set, or maybe a team skill set, where we as a fleet can, despite the ships we are in, not have to plug into local. I mean there is no way to counter your omnipotent, intelligence gather device that CCP enforces with no authority. OP, stop trying to turn 0.0 into your personal sandbox and realize that the game does not revolve around you. Don't like the fact a Cloaky ship can ruin your Isk making potential, move back to high sec.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:18:00 - [136] Originally by: Alara IonStorm This is just a sound byte worthless in actual content and not applicable to the fact that Cloaks are utterly imbalanced and that they are the only tactic in the game other players can do NOTHING about. (Including yourself..) If you are never concerned about a Cloaked ship in 0.0 then you are a fool or a liar. Raj. We are concerned, we just don't wet ourselves and cry on the forums. Has someone suggested wormholes for you yet? Im neither wetting nor crying, but its good to see you living up to your unusually low heights :) Cant think of a reason to earn yourself a billion yet? Raj.
Destruct0	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:20:00 - [137] I think we should all bring 1 cloaky ship to the op's home system. Who's with me? :P
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:21:00 - [138] Originally by: Destruct0 I think we should all bring 1 cloaky ship to the op's home system. Who's with me? :P We need to create an alt corp for this purpose. Everytime someone creates a thread on this, boom 50 AFK stealthbombers in his home system! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:24:00 - [139] Originally by: Loki Sei Edited by: Loki Sei on 02/09/2010 14:19:25 Want to talk about unbalanced, I spend all this Isk on a cloaky ship, invest the skills to be able to have you not see me, and CCP requires me to plug into every local channel in 0.0 where they dont even have any authority. I want a skill set, or maybe a team skill set, where we as a fleet can, despite the ships we are in, not have to plug into local. I mean there is no way to counter your omnipotent, intelligence gather device that CCP enforces with no authority. OP, stop trying to turn 0.0 into your personal sandbox and realize that the game does not revolve around you. Don't like the fact a Cloaky ship can ruin your Isk making potential, move back to high sec. I see your point and have no problem with "intelligence gathering.." but you have some requirements first. You need actual intelligence. Why you should be allowed to flourish using the one thing in the game that is unbeatable by design and more likely ommission creating just plain imbalance. All I am asking for is balance. All you are asking for is status quo. So want a game advantage that should not be there. Raj.
Riverbane	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:25:00 - [140] Simple solution, require cloaking modules to require alot of cap to keep running. If those people are PVP fit then they will only be able to remained cloaked for 5-10mins at a time forcing them to what they fit their ship for and what they went out to do - PVP. If they stay in the system too long while cloaked they will be vulnerable and be able to be hunted down and killed. If they want to perma cloak in a system they still can but will be forced put a bunch mods on to become cap stable thus making them worthless pvp wise. It would force people to learn how to fly their cloaky ship vs thinking they are awsome at pvp because they sat afk in a system for 5hrs and killed a solo hulk

Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:26:00 - [141] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Destruct0 I think we should all bring 1 cloaky ship to the op's home system. Who's with me? :P We need to create an alt corp for this purpose. Everytime someone creates a thread on this, boom 50 AFK stealthbombers in his home system! Do it! CCP would HAVE to start taking notice of that kind of crap wouldnt they! Your becoming lower than your proverbial sausage dog. Nice one! Raj.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:28:00 - [142] Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 02/09/2010 14:29:39 Originally by: Riverbane Simple solution, require cloaking modules to require alot of cap to keep running. If those people are PVP fit then they will only be able to remained cloaked for 5-10mins at a time forcing them to what they fit their ship for and what they went out to do - PVP. If they stay in the system too long while cloaked they will be vulnerable and be able to be hunted down and killed. If they want to perma cloak in a system they still can but will be forced put a bunch mods on to become cap stable thus making them worthless pvp wise. It would force people to learn how to fly their cloaky ship vs thinking they are awsome at pvp because they sat afk in a system for 5hrs and killed a solo hulk It will make them to vunrible to Nuets. Especially the Pilgram, nuets are it's biggest weapon. Also the Falcon, it needs Cap to run ECM. Edit: Also for the post above me, CCP would definatly notice, just like they noticed Hulkageddon... Oh Wait! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:33:00 - [143] Wow Don't worry OP...it will all get balanced when local gets nerfed and then you won't have to worry about seeing those nasty little red minus types in nullsec local ever again. Until they decloak in your anom/belt and kill you some more. I love these threads. Maybe OP should take the billion he is offering and use it to pay for his alliance mates to protect him from the evil boogie woogie man
Loki Sei	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:35:00 - [144] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Loki Sei Edited by: Loki Sei on 02/09/2010 14:19:25 Want to talk about unbalanced, I spend all this Isk on a cloaky ship, invest the skills to be able to have you not see me, and CCP requires me to plug into every local channel in 0.0 where they dont even have any authority. I want a skill set, or maybe a team skill set, where we as a fleet can, despite the ships we are in, not have to plug into local. I mean there is no way to counter your omnipotent, intelligence gather device that CCP enforces with no authority. OP, stop trying to turn 0.0 into your personal sandbox and realize that the game does not revolve around you. Don't like the fact a Cloaky ship can ruin your Isk making potential, move back to high sec. I see your point and have no problem with "intelligence gathering.." but you have some requirements first. You need actual intelligence. Why you should be allowed to flourish using the one thing in the game that is unbeatable by design and more likely ommission creating just plain imbalance. All I am asking for is balance. All you are asking for is status quo. So want a game advantage that should not be there. Raj. Fixed your inabilty to not quote properly. I am not against change, but what are you willing to give up to make your change? You have offered no solution other then "fix it". This AFK cloaker tactic has arisen in response to the inordiante number of people lured to 0.0 by promise of 20 anomolies, 6/10 plexs, and ore belts loaded with ABC roids. Now said people want to be "left alone" to make their isk. Sorry, you aren't going to be left alone. The people employing this tactic are looking for stupid people with high sec habits that do things you should not do in 0.0 Want to be safe, forget it. So offer a solution that does not simply tilt the field in your favor with an unlimted ability to know the second anyone comes in your system (or neighboring systems if you have proper scouts in place), AND the ability to find anyone in a cloak. Otherwise my vote is to let you have a I-HUB improvement that lets you scan down cloaked ships with a 2 hours cycle time, and it causes local chat to fail.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:36:00 - [145] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox This is just a sound byte worthless in actual content and not applicable to the fact that Cloaks are utterly imbalanced and that they are the only tactic in the game other players can do NOTHING about. (Including yourself..) If you are never concerned about a Cloaked ship in 0.0 then you are a fool or a liar. There is ~~difference~~ a vast yawning chasm between being "concerned about" and being so paralysed by fear that you're actually being griefed by that presence. The latter is something you've chosen, and now you're complaining about your own choice. Not letting them grief you is exactly what you do to defeat them ù it kills their entire purpose dead. And all you have to do to make this happen is: nothing. Just go about your business. When they stop being AFK cloakers, you kill them. Just like you would with anyone else. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:36:00 - [146] "OK, here I am to ask CCP why they won't introduce a mechanism, a skillset that players can use to remove nuisance Cloakers who are only there to ruin the gameplay of other players who are trying to enjoy this game that they pay good money for?" You mean sort of like how gate campers, scammers, macroers, and suicide gankers ruin the gameplay of others who paid good money to play? Go figure. Cold harsh world remember? I agree that it's completely lame gameplay, but so are all those other things.
Myz Toyou APOCALYPSE LEGION	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:37:00 - [147] Edited by: Myz Toyou on 02/09/2010 14:37:24 So we have a 0.0 ex- Golem owner who is mad over his own fault ( his fault = ratting angels in a 1bil ship that could be done in a 50mil ship ) and we have MatrixSkye Mk2, the Robin Hood of all ******ed ppl on tranq, now we miss only Cat o'Ninetails and this thread is complete. @OP: -07/10 Cya in your ratting system
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:38:00 - [148] All those clever sh+ts and not ONE of them can actually come up with a way to defeat a Cloaking Griefer (Reveal his position, trap him, kill him..) because they all KNOW the REAL argument isnt about "Intelligence Gathering" or being a carebear.. It's about them having an exploit that pays them to sit in a system (Usually one without a station.. Maybe a POS or 2..) and put a stop to corp production such as mining and just be there for the unstoppable "Grief" factor. this ruins the game for the majority of players in that system. Why? Because Cloaky Griefing is the only tactic that has NO counter Tactic. They know this. They use this. They profit from it. the game is unalanced for those of us who can do nothing against them. they tell us all there's lots we can do. 1 Billion isk to the person who can reveal a determined Cloaky Griefer succesfully time after time.. As long as the game isn't modiified to fix it, the isk is safe. Raj.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:42:00 - [149] Originally by: Myz Toyou Edited by: Myz Toyou on 02/09/2010 14:37:24 So we have a 0.0 ex- Golem owner who is mad over his own fault ( his fault = ratting angels in a 1bil ship that could be done in a 50mil ship ) and we have MatrixSkye Mk2, the Robin Hood of all ******ed ppl on tranq, now we miss only Cat o'Ninetails and this thread is complete. @OP: -07/10 Cya in your ratting system Im not mad over the Golem that was nothing to do with Cloaking. I'm just mad at the regular use of Cloaky Griefing. It exploits a bad imbalance of the Cloaking mod. Namely that it runs forever and there is no way of eventually beating it. I'd love a shield or armor that has these same magical qualities. Raj.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:46:00 - [150] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox All those clever sh+ts and not ONE of them can actually come up with a way to defeat a Cloaking Griefer False. Quote: It's about them having an exploit False. Quote: that pays them to sit in a system [à] and put a stop to corp production such as mining and just be there for the unstoppable "Grief" factor. False. Quote: this ruins the game for the majority of players in that system. Their choice. Quote: Because Cloaky Griefing is the only tactic that has NO counter Tactic. False. Just because you ignore everything that has been said in this thread doesn't make any of your claims true. There are counters ù you just stubbornly refuse to make use of them. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:47:00 - [151] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Edited by: Rajheen Orlox on 02/09/2010 05:28:52 Originally by: Lance Fighter any alliance worth its salt can deal with an afk cloaker. Nuff said. No they cannot... You cannot tell me how nor can anyone. There is no counter tactic. It's unbalanced. Raj. Yes, there is. decloak them and quit crying. When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me.
Loki Sei	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:49:00 - [152] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox All those clever sh+ts and not ONE of them can actually come up with a way to defeat a Cloaking Griefer (Reveal his position, trap him, kill him..) because they all KNOW the REAL argument isnt about "Intelligence Gathering" or being a carebear.. It's about them having an exploit that pays them to sit in a system (Usually one without a station.. Maybe a POS or 2..) and put a stop to corp production such as mining and just be there for the unstoppable "Grief" factor. this ruins the game for the majority of players in that system. Why? Because Cloaky Griefing is the only tactic that has NO counter Tactic. They know this. They use this. They profit from it. the game is unalanced for those of us who can do nothing against them. they tell us all there's lots we can do. 1 Billion isk to the person who can reveal a determined Cloaky Griefer succesfully time after time.. As long as the game isn't modiified to fix it, the isk is safe. Raj. First, you need to change the term to semi-AFK Griefer, cause we all know there is nothing to fear from a true AFK griefer. Know why are there no 23/7 AFK greifers in W-Space? Cause there is no point since we cant see them in W-space. So easy solution to your issue is to remove real time local chat. AHHH, but you dont WANT that, because it would make you even less comfortable running anoms in your Golum. No you want a way to find/kill something that you should not be seeing in the first place. And I would like you to post some kill mails where these repeated fleets keep hot dropping you. I expect it is your FEAR of these hot drops and not a series of actual hot drops that has you so worried. Just remember that once you accept the fact you are going to die, the fear of dieing loses its grip on you and you can do your job.
Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:54:00 - [153] Edited by: Freyya on 02/09/2010 14:57:24 Originally by: Rajheen Orlox All those clever sh+ts and not ONE of them can actually come up with a way to defeat a Cloaking Griefer (Reveal his position, trap him, kill him..) 1 Billion isk to the person who can reveal a determined Cloaky Griefer succesfully time after time.. Raj. Ok, you keep changing the rules; 1st it was a way to reveal the cloaker, now it's time after time again. Anyways, send me my bill as i linked a killmail on page 3 that shows you how to do it. null Grief the griefer Provide a juicy target which he knows he can take or escape if it goes wrong, cloak a bomber next to it, wait till he makes a funrun or actually engages and shoot the crap out of him. If he doesn't take the bait after several belts/whatever then he's actually afk and thus nothing to worry about at that time. What also helps is to then have a few friends in system and this bit is important; They are ratting in PVP TANKED SHIPS INSTEAD OF YOUR COOKY CUTTER NPC FITS and can warp (stay in same fleet) in whenever sh+t hits the fan. They are making isk and are on standby in case. That's 2 ways to reveal, trap and kill a cloaker. Now i'm not greedy but i'll take the 1 bil instead of 2 for 2 ways to do it. Those solutions work every time after time so put up or shut up. The ball is now in your court. /me starts to wait on several more excuses to avoid putting up. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 14:56:00 - [154] Originally by: Ana Vyr "OK, here I am to ask CCP why they won't introduce a mechanism, a skillset that players can use to remove nuisance Cloakers who are only there to ruin the gameplay of other players who are trying to enjoy this game that they pay good money for?" You mean sort of like how gate campers, scammers, macroers, and suicide gankers ruin the gameplay of others who paid good money to play? Go figure. Cold harsh world remember? I agree that it's completely lame gameplay, but so are all those other things. You miss the point with classic alacrity ducking the real purpose of this thread as many others have because it's about an exploitable imbalance that cannot be defeated. It's about the exploit of a game mechanic (Cloaky Griefing..)that cannot be defeated. None of the above is even related to the problem, and isn't valid as an argument, I have no problem with them so, dont associate me with them please. Raj.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:00:00 - [155] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Edited by: Rajheen Orlox on 02/09/2010 05:28:52 Originally by: Lance Fighter any alliance worth its salt can deal with an afk cloaker. Nuff said. No they cannot... You cannot tell me how nor can anyone. There is no counter tactic. It's unbalanced. Raj. Yes, there is. decloak them and quit crying. Cypher even you in your great magnitudes of dumbness and incredible abusive personality couldn't earn yourself a billion telling me how to achieve this holy grail could you? Thought not. Raj.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:02:00 - [156] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox It's about the exploit of a game mechanic (Cloaky Griefing..)that cannot be defeated. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. Where is the "exploit?" What is the exploit? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:04:00 - [157] Edited by: DNSBLACK on 02/09/2010 15:04:54 Originally by: Rajheen Orlox All those clever sh+ts and not ONE of them can actually come up with a way to defeat a Cloaking Griefer (Reveal his position, trap him, kill him..) because they all KNOW the REAL argument isnt about "Intelligence Gathering" or being a carebear.. It's about them having an exploit that pays them to sit in a system (Usually one without a station.. Maybe a POS or 2..) and put a stop to corp production such as mining and just be there for the unstoppable "Grief" factor. this ruins the game for the majority of players in that system. Why? Because Cloaky Griefing is the only tactic that has NO counter Tactic. They know this. They use this. They profit from it. the game is unalanced for those of us who can do nothing against them. they tell us all there's lots we can do. 1 Billion isk to the person who can reveal a determined Cloaky Griefer succesfully time after time.. As long as the game isn't modiified to fix it, the isk is safe. Raj. I have a question did he have to decloak to kill you? If he didnt then I need to train those skills that allowed that guy to kill you when he was cloaked. I think that may be an exploit. Seriosly, I will expand my point by saying " I have never died to a AFK player, nor have I ever died to a cloaked ship" Everyone who has ever killed me has either been at there computer or in a ship that I could see.
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:05:00 - [158] You owe Freyya One Billion ISK click here
Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:08:00 - [159] QUoting again just in case you missed my post just now or are willfully ignoring it. Also fixed link since my linking skills failed @ page 3 bye griefer Originally by: Freyya Edited by: Freyya on 02/09/2010 14:57:24 Originally by: Rajheen Orlox All those clever sh+ts and not ONE of them can actually come up with a way to defeat a Cloaking Griefer (Reveal his position, trap him, kill him..) 1 Billion isk to the person who can reveal a determined Cloaky Griefer succesfully time after time.. Raj. Ok, you keep changing the rules; 1st it was a way to reveal the cloaker, now it's time after time again. Anyways, send me my bill as i linked a killmail on page 3 that shows you how to do it. null Grief the griefer Provide a juicy target which he knows he can take or escape if it goes wrong, cloak a bomber next to it, wait till he makes a funrun or actually engages and shoot the crap out of him. If he doesn't take the bait after several belts/whatever then he's actually afk and thus nothing to worry about at that time. What also helps is to then have a few friends in system and this bit is important; They are ratting in PVP TANKED SHIPS INSTEAD OF YOUR COOKY CUTTER NPC FITS and can warp (stay in same fleet) in whenever sh+t hits the fan. They are making isk and are on standby in case. That's 2 ways to reveal, trap and kill a cloaker. Now i'm not greedy but i'll take the 1 bil instead of 2 for 2 ways to do it. Those solutions work every time after time so put up or shut up. The ball is now in your court. /me starts to wait on several more excuses to avoid putting up. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:12:00 - [160] Originally by: Loki Sei First, you need to change the term to semi-AFK Griefer, cause we all know there is nothing to fear from a true AFK griefer. Know why are there no 23/7 AFK greifers in W-Space? Cause there is no point since we cant see them in W-space. So easy solution to your issue is to remove real time local chat. AHHH, but you dont WANT that, because it would make you even less comfortable running anoms in your Golum. No you want a way to find/kill something that you should not be seeing in the first place. And I would like you to post some kill mails where these repeated fleets keep hot dropping you. I expect it is your FEAR of these hot drops and not a series of actual hot drops that has you so worried. Just remember that once you accept the fact you are going to die, the fear of dieing loses its grip on you and you can do your job. I have actually dropped the term "AFK" deliberately for the last few posts reasoning (Like your very quick self..) that I just dont know if they are (AFK) or not. The rest of your post doesnt even help address the imbalance that exists in Cloaky Griefing and once again like others in this post just tries to HI-JACK the thread away from its true (Determined) purpose. Cloaky Griefing is a imbalance that has no tactic that can be used to defeat it. It's out of kilter and CCP PLEASE ignore these self-interested vocal supporters of an obviously dodgy game exploit and give us THE TOOLS to fight it fairly. Raj.

CommmanderInChief Comply Or Die	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:12:00 - [161] lol its funny hearing all these guys who have certainly no experience of cloakies. Cloakies are a pain in the backside. They dont agress when ppl are in system, mainly. they are happy to sit it out, even log off in a system. Corps cannot rat, mine etc for fear of getting ganked. Cloakies do not usually turn up solo, its mainly in agang so even if you do have a cloaked SB they still gonna kill it, so ppl dont take the risk. need to seriously have a counter against these, I even think that specific skills, specific ship to specifcally probe out cloakies on a chance basis is required. nuff said
Pentinor Corp 1 Allstars QQ Connoisseur's	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:13:00 - [162] Sounds like the op is mad he can't rat in peace....pro tip...go 1 jump over. Problem solved. Signature locked. Please file a petition to discuss the matter - CCP Fallout
DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:16:00 - [163] How to kill a griefing cloaker: 1. Wait till he decloaks. 2. Fire Gun or missle. 3. Tank his damage out put. 4. If he has friends come in make sure you have friends who will come to your rescue. 5. Fight it out. PVP is another term for it. 6. Retreat if you think you are going to lose or do what so many do so well from high sec die in a nice explosion and learn from the engagement and try again. Can I have the isk please or is that to complicated for you
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:16:00 - [164] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox OK, here I am to ask CCP why they won't introduce a mechanism, a skillset that players can use to remove nuisance Cloakers who are only there to ruin the gameplay of other players who are trying to enjoy this game that they pay good money for? Come on CCP, surely you can admit that almost everyone is sick and tired of being locked down by some griefer in a system when in this game there are many ways available to give us skillsets that can make the balance a little more even. Cloaking griefers are not players in the whole sense of the word. They are spoiling the game's strategy because in itself afk cloaking is a strategy that cannot be beaten/defeated at all and that is unfair. You have balanced many other things in the game and for every armor or shield or power supply there is a way to defeat or enhance, but when it comes to cloaking and going afk nothing can be done and many players are throwing good money after bad on this game to log in and find yet again gametime wasted day after day by the same old cloaky-griefers. DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS!! PLEASE!!!! Raj. ahahahahahahaha omg you're terrible, really you dont belong in 0.0 go back to high sec. Difference between a Carebear alliance/corp and a pvp alliance/corp. Cloaky griefer comes into system - Carebears dock up and cry like little **gots. Cloaky griefer comes into system - pvps fleet up and send out a bait ship whilst they sit around him in recons waiting for him to bite, After they realise there is no bite they determine he is AFK and everyone continues to make money but in fleet ready to react to any recons or black ops dropped. You are litrally the meaning of terrible and you don't belong out of high sec. Get out. -------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v*
Mac Maniac Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:17:00 - [165] Coming from someone that has lost his fair share of faction fit pve golems.. I can tell you only one thing is required to defeat an afk cloaker.. It's called.... your brain. Try using it. The solution is: MOVE TO ANOTHER SYSTEM. If he does not follow you, then you can happily carebear in your new system. If he does follow you then he is NOT afk and you are being actively hunted. Last but not least I would like to point out that you have now made painted a gigantic bullseye on yourself for every afker/griefer/ganker out there. All of them now know that you run fancy faction fit golems. Not a wise decision IMHO.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:26:00 - [166] Originally by: Freyya Edited by: Freyya on 02/09/2010 14:57:24 Ok, you keep changing the rules; 1st it was a way to reveal the cloaker, now it's time after time again. Anyways, send me my bill as i linked a killmail on page 3 that shows you how to do it. null Grief the griefer Provide a juicy target which he knows he can take or escape if it goes wrong, cloak a bomber next to it, wait till he makes a funrun or actually engages and shoot the crap out of him. If he doesn't take the bait after several belts/whatever then he's actually afk and thus nothing to worry about at that time. What also helps is to then have a few friends in system and this bit is important; They are ratting in PVP TANKED SHIPS INSTEAD OF YOUR COOKY CUTTER NPC FITS and can warp (stay in same fleet) in whenever sh+t hits the fan. They are making isk and are on standby in case. That's 2 ways to reveal, trap and kill a cloaker. Now i'm not greedy but i'll take the 1 bil instead of 2 for 2 ways to do it. Those solutions work every time after time so put up or shut up. The ball is now in your court. /me starts to wait on several more excuses to avoid putting up. Pointless post you just made that answered nothing. Your tactics rely on the Cloaky griefer uncloaking himself or changing what hes doing to satisfy your "Baiting " tactics.. Oh, Oh, here's some cheese. Oh he didnt take it. Guess that's a good tactic huh? Oh hang on lets fly into a rat infested level eight plex and be in pvp ships. - OOh thats not good my PvP setup dont work too good in here. Oh lol he hot dropped a dozen others on top of me and because the rats were targetting me too I got var-nigh insta popped. (Along with all my friends who came here to run a plex..) in their seriously weakened ships. For fun you know. That thing we all do this game for. Oh that cant happen when you have ships that cannot be detected at any time and can call in dozens of others when they like (Or not..) but we dont know that because we cant see them, dont know their shiptype or even if they're afk or awake. Thats a bent mechanic. I owe you nothing. You cannot even reveal a Cloaky Griefer by design. My isk will be safe (Oh and when they do change it I naturally withdraw the offer..) You have no intelligent argument. 1 Bil to reveal, catch and kill reguarly Cloaky Griefers. Come collect. It's safe. Raj.
BoBoZoBo Foundation	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:29:00 - [167] Once again - How do you determine a cloaker is AFK How is an AFK cloaker a threat? How does an individual who is AFK lock you down How does an individual who is AFK observe you How does an individual who is AFK report on your activity Notice - no "?" - Rhetorical I agree that the cloak/covert system could be made more fun. Maybe giving SOV held system a type of scanning system that can detect the general location of a covert ship. But then there should be counter-counters. Skill and equipment based. ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:29:00 - [168] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rajheen Orlox It's about the exploit of a game mechanic (Cloaky Griefing..)that cannot be defeated. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. Where is the "exploit?" What is the exploit? I agree but I cannot think of another word that describes the use of this ommission in balance when the mod was introduced. When it's used purely as a form of Grief I think that "Exploit.." suits it more than any other until it's fixed. Raj.
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:30:00 - [169] I hope the cloaky afkers kill your corp. You deserve no less -------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:33:00 - [170] Originally by: Riedle You owe Freyya One Billion ISK Your analysis of freyyas claim is weak and greedy. Sieze on something that makes sense. I ask that someone show me a method to repeatedly unveil, trap, and kill Cloaky Griefers who use the one undefeatable tactic in the game to profit. The Isk is very safe. Raj.

Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:33:00 - [171] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Freyya Edited by: Freyya on 02/09/2010 14:57:24 Ok, you keep changing the rules; 1st it was a way to reveal the cloaker, now it's time after time again. Anyways, send me my bill as i linked a killmail on page 3 that shows you how to do it. null Grief the griefer Provide a juicy target which he knows he can take or escape if it goes wrong, cloak a bomber next to it, wait till he makes a funrun or actually engages and shoot the crap out of him. If he doesn't take the bait after several belts/whatever then he's actually afk and thus nothing to worry about at that time. What also helps is to then have a few friends in system and this bit is important; They are ratting in PVP TANKED SHIPS INSTEAD OF YOUR COOKY CUTTER NPC FITS and can warp (stay in same fleet) in whenever sh+t hits the fan. They are making isk and are on standby in case. That's 2 ways to reveal, trap and kill a cloaker. Now i'm not greedy but i'll take the 1 bil instead of 2 for 2 ways to do it. Those solutions work every time after time so put up or shut up. The ball is now in your court. /me starts to wait on several more excuses to avoid putting up. Pointless post you just made that answered nothing. Your tactics rely on the Cloaky griefer uncloaking himself or changing what hes doing to satisfy your "Baiting " tactics.. Oh, Oh, here's some cheese. Oh he didnt take it. Guess that's a good tactic huh? Oh hang on lets fly into a rat infested level eight plex and be in pvp ships. - OOh thats not good my PvP setup dont work too good in here. Oh lol he hot dropped a dozen others on top of me and because the rats were targetting me too I got var-nigh insta popped. (Along with all my friends who came here to run a plex..) in their seriously weakened ships. For fun you know. That thing we all do this game for. Oh that cant happen when you have ships that cannot be detected at any time and can call in dozens of others when they like (Or not..) but we dont know that because we cant see them, dont know their shiptype or even if they're afk or awake. Thats a bent mechanic. I owe you nothing. You cannot even reveal a Cloaky Griefer by design. My isk will be safe (Oh and when they do change it I naturally withdraw the offer..) You have no intelligent argument. 1 Bil to reveal, catch and kill reguarly Cloaky Griefers. Come collect. It's safe. Raj. Once again you show that you do nothing more than whine to whione because you have to play with the chance of PvP instead of playing on your own terms. I SOLO SANCTUMS WITH MY DOMI THAT'S OMNITANKED AND DO 8/10's WITH 2-3 PEOPLE. I just showed you that you actually fail at doing plexes. Getting swarmed by more of them proves your intel fails. OP proved it himself..he fails and uses nothing but excusses to keep his whine up. I suggest everyone let him rot in his own whines. Even refuses to pay up his wager making up new rules to it as he get's owned by the answers time and time again. Do us all a favor and just ragequit....sheesh, some people need to be sterilised i swear.. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:35:00 - [172] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Cloaky Griefing is a imbalance that has no tactic that can be used to defeat it. Constantly repeating this doesn't make it true. In fact it's false, but you are not interested in ways to help negate the cloaker. You just want easy PvE and mining in complete safety and the ability to blob anyone the dares enter 'your' space. P.S. It's not 'your' space and you don't belong in 0.0. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:35:00 - [173] Originally by: Pentinor Sounds like the op is mad he can't rat in peace....pro tip...go 1 jump over. Problem solved. No that just leaves the problem a jump behind you. No fix there. Raj.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:38:00 - [174] Originally by: DNSBLACK How to kill a griefing cloaker: 1. Wait till he decloaks. 2. Fire Gun or missle. 3. Tank his damage out put. 4. If he has friends come in make sure you have friends who will come to your rescue. 5. Fight it out. PVP is another term for it. 6. Retreat if you think you are going to lose or do what so many do so well from high sec die in a nice explosion and learn from the engagement and try again. Can I have the isk please or is that to complicated for you Lol you are funny wait till he decloaks. Yeah like here I am cloaked thers someone looking for me. So I decloak.. Haahahahahaha. Noob. Raj.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:41:00 - [175] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: DNSBLACK How to kill a griefing cloaker: 1. Wait till he decloaks. 2. Fire Gun or missle. 3. Tank his damage out put. 4. If he has friends come in make sure you have friends who will come to your rescue. 5. Fight it out. PVP is another term for it. 6. Retreat if you think you are going to lose or do what so many do so well from high sec die in a nice explosion and learn from the engagement and try again. Can I have the isk please or is that to complicated for you Lol you are funny wait till he decloaks. Yeah like here I am cloaked thers someone looking for me. So I decloak.. Haahahahahaha. Noob. Raj. So he doesn't declock, Problem solved, thread over! Phew we can all go home now. -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:42:00 - [176] OP repeatedly confirms that there is no cure for dumb click here
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:43:00 - [177] Originally by: CommmanderInChief Cloakies are a pain in the backside. They dont agress when ppl are in system, mainly. they are happy to sit it out, even log off in a system. Corps cannot rat, mine etc for fear of getting ganked. Okà so corps cannot rat, mine, etc. for fear that they'll be ganked by someone who won't aggress when there are people in the system. Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Your tactics rely on the Cloaky griefer uncloaking himself or changing what hes doing to satisfy your "Baiting " tactics.. And his tactics relies on him uncloaking himself. Fancy that: what a happy coincidence! ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:44:00 - [178] Originally by: Razzor Death Originally by: Rajheen Orlox OK, here I am to ask CCP why they won't introduce a mechanism, a skillset that players can use to remove nuisance Cloakers ahahahahahahaha omg you're terrible, really you dont belong in 0.0 go back to high sec. Difference between a Carebear alliance/corp and a pvp alliance/corp. Cloaky griefer comes into system - Carebears dock up and cry like little ***gots. Cloaky griefer comes into system - pvps fleet up and send out a bait ship whilst they sit around him in recons waiting for him to bite, After they realise there is no bite they determine he is AFK and everyone continues to make money but in fleet ready to react to any recons or black ops dropped. You are litrally the meaning of terrible and you don't belong out of high sec. Get out. Lol pathetic and not addressing the thread in the least. The thread points to (Much to many folks's discomfort..) the imbalance that Cloaky Griefing is as a tactic. there is no strategy that can be used to defeat it even your above very up-front but totally inadequate response would be useless and where there is a pos or no pos no station would be worse than sh+t.. Lets hope guys like you still keep coming to be knocked down. Raj.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:45:00 - [179] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Razzor Death Originally by: Rajheen Orlox OK, here I am to ask CCP why they won't introduce a mechanism, a skillset that players can use to remove nuisance Cloakers ahahahahahahaha omg you're terrible, really you dont belong in 0.0 go back to high sec. Difference between a Carebear alliance/corp and a pvp alliance/corp. Cloaky griefer comes into system - Carebears dock up and cry like little ***gots. Cloaky griefer comes into system - pvps fleet up and send out a bait ship whilst they sit around him in recons waiting for him to bite, After they realise there is no bite they determine he is AFK and everyone continues to make money but in fleet ready to react to any recons or black ops dropped. You are litrally the meaning of terrible and you don't belong out of high sec. Get out. Lol pathetic and not addressing the thread in the least. The thread points to (Much to many folks's discomfort..) the imbalance that Cloaky Griefing is as a tactic. there is no strategy that can be used to defeat it even your above very up-front but totally inadequate response would be useless and where there is a pos or no pos no station would be worse than sh+t.. Lets hope guys like you still keep coming to be knocked down. Raj. Yes cause were all laughing at hi... Oh wait! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:46:00 - [180] Originally by: Razzor Death I hope the cloaky afkers kill your corp. You deserve no less Oooh. a Psycho in the ranks. Rattling the cage of a unfair advantage always does this to those making isk from it, doesnt it? Raj.

SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:46:00 - [181] There should be some sort of automatic one week ban that kicks in every time someone makes a new thread about cloaks. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
Musical Fist Gallente NAP Coalition	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:48:00 - [182] HAHAHAHAHA NC Renters crying over not being able to macro rat, priceless -- Recruitment now open!!
Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:48:00 - [183] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Edited by: Rajheen Orlox on 02/09/2010 14:00:35 Edited by: Rajheen Orlox on 02/09/2010 13:59:13 Originally by: Zagdul Edited by: Zagdul on 02/09/2010 11:29:24 Don't like the cloaky guy in your system, get in a ship bait him with a fleet of your friends. From your US TZ FC.. GL HF. Thats Rich!! Because you cant (and don't..) do anything either! I repeat there is NO way to defeat a Cloaky Greifer and I will pay any one a billion isk to anyone who can PROVE that there is a game method that works to reveal a random Cloaky Griefers position. Come on clever guys your so abundant in here. Now tell us all what your empty arguments are really worth I have 9 bil in my account and want to give a bil away. No silly stupid comments or ignorance that will never work just a proven method. Because there is none. You cannot defeat something as unbalanced as Cloaky griefing. Raj. 1. Join a fleet. You may find your words are a little empty. 2. To counter, get some people in the alliance to bait them. We've done this before, we got our asses kicked but we tried. Learned a few things also and will carry on to attempt a bait again someday. I'll take my isk. This is your counter.
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:52:00 - [184] Edited by: Razzor Death on 02/09/2010 15:53:23 Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Razzor Death Originally by: Rajheen Orlox OK, here I am to ask CCP why they won't introduce a mechanism, a skillset that players can use to remove nuisance Cloakers ahahahahahahaha omg you're terrible, really you dont belong in 0.0 go back to high sec. Difference between a Carebear alliance/corp and a pvp alliance/corp. Cloaky griefer comes into system - Carebears dock up and cry like little *gots. Cloaky griefer comes into system - pvps fleet up and send out a bait ship whilst they sit around him in recons waiting for him to bite, After they realise there is no bite they determine he is AFK and everyone continues to make money but in fleet ready to react to any recons or black ops dropped. You are litrally the meaning of terrible and you don't belong out of high sec. Get out. Lol pathetic and not addressing the thread in the least. The thread points to (Much to many folks's discomfort..) the imbalance that Cloaky Griefing is as a tactic. there is no strategy that can be used to defeat it even your above very up-front but totally inadequate response would be useless and where there is a pos or no pos no station would be worse than sh+t.. Lets hope guys like you still keep coming to be knocked down. Raj. OMG you are so **ed I'm going to say it really slow so it gets in your blaintly ***ed carebear skull IF..CLOAKY...IN...SYSTEM...GET..IN...FLEET....AND...RAT...WITH..A...POINT...AND...READY ..TO..RESPOND...WHY...ARE...YOU....SO....BAD...AT...THIS...GAME... I'm tempted to get into my Arazu and come camp your system now. -------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v*
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:53:00 - [185] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Razzor Death I hope the cloaky afkers kill your corp. You deserve no less Oooh. a Psycho in the ranks. Rattling the cage of a unfair advantage always does this to those making isk from it, doesnt it? Raj. The thing about it is its not an unfair advantage. Its not unfair because you can stop it and you can do it yourself. When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:55:00 - [186] Originally by: Freyya Once again you show that you do nothing more than whine to whione because you have to play with the chance of PvP instead of playing on your own terms. I SOLO SANCTUMS WITH MY DOMI THAT'S OMNITANKED AND DO 8/10's WITH 2-3 PEOPLE. I just showed you that you actually fail at doing plexes. Getting swarmed by more of them proves your intel fails. OP proved it himself..he fails and uses nothing but excusses to keep his whine up. I suggest everyone let him rot in his own whines. Even refuses to pay up his wager making up new rules to it as he get's owned by the answers time and time again. Do us all a favor and just ragequit....sheesh, some people need to be sterilised i swear.. You should see a doctor about that hate thing. This thread is entirely about the the only thing in the game that has no defence or counter tactic when every single other pilot-ownable item or skill is just the opposite and beatable on skill dependancy. Thats what really hurts isnt it? cary on with your impotent empty sacks and try griefing me away from this thread loser. Ain't happening. :) Cause your very funny. Before I ever "Ragequit.." I'm going to **** a lot of you off revealing you for the game twisting set of griefing as+ha+s you really are. I would lay money that you would never say that me or anyone face to face because your'e a cheapshot yellowbacked griefer in the forums only. Loser. Raj.
Surfs Down	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:56:00 - [187] Raj - When the cloaky in your system reads this he aint never going to leave as the carebear tears are the best test. He is growing fat on the copius amounts you are spilling trust me. I cant see CCP ever changing the ability to remain cloaked indefinatly. It would break to much of how fleets work in 0.0 or even lowsec for that matter. What you are basically saying, and trust me we all get it, is by having this person in your 0.0 system perma cloaked is interfering with your safety factor and thus not allowing you to enjoy your game. We get that two. However just because you cannot decloak him does me the game mechanic should be changed because You are affected. Doing so would effect other game play styles in a way that would not be benifical to the greater eve community. You just are not willing to concede that point and your argumentative petulate stance renders any ground you may have had with your point useless. Ill even offer you another way to get him to leave. Pay him to leave. I made a lot of money off RA in the past to do just that.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:58:00 - [188] Originally by: SurrenderMonkey There should be some sort of automatic one week ban that kicks in every time someone makes a new thread about cloaks. Hmm might get noticed someday.. Meanwhile, Suppress all dissenters! Worriesome aint it? Raj.
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:58:00 - [189] Pure Blind F-NMX6 GA-P6C S-MDYI S4GH-I Go go go Alliance publicly admitting cloakys can kill them. Lets go park our alts. -------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.09.02 15:59:00 - [190] Quote: I would lay money that you would never say that me or anyone face to face because your'e a cheapshot yellowbacked griefer in the forums only. Careful, OP is tough guy in RL click here

Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:01:00 - [191] Originally by: Riedle Quote: I would lay money that you would never say that me or anyone face to face because your'e a cheapshot yellowbacked griefer in the forums only. Careful, OP is tough guy in RL Damn you're right, I must refrain from posting just in case. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:01:00 - [192] Originally by: Riedle Quote: I would lay money that you would never say that me or anyone face to face because your'e a cheapshot yellowbacked griefer in the forums only. Careful, OP is tough guy in RL Yeah Careful or we will get beat up! No one messes with his internet spaceships! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:02:00 - [193] Originally by: Zagdul 1. Join a fleet. You may find your words are a little empty. 2. To counter, get some people in the alliance to bait them. We've done this before, we got our asses kicked but we tried. Learned a few things also and will carry on to attempt a bait again someday. I'll take my isk. This is your counter. Zag.. Baiting depends entirely upon the guy doing the Cloaky Griefing revealing himself to you. I'm not asking for a charitable action from the guy like that, I'm asking for a skillset from CCP to let me eventually find him myself. Thanks for your continued support. Raj.
Cailais Amarr THE ORDAINED	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:02:00 - [194] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox This thread is entirely about the the only thing in the game that has no defence or counter tactic when every single other pilot-ownable item or skill is just the opposite and beatable on skill dependancy. You missed docking in a NPC station. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:03:00 - [195] nobody's supporting you we are telling you you are a moron and you are publicly telling everyone your alliance is so bad you cant deal with cloakys. Pure Blind F-NMX6 GA-P6C S-MDYI S4GH-I gogogogo -------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:04:00 - [196] Originally by: Musical Fist HAHAHAHAHA NC Renters crying over not being able to macro rat, priceless Wrong. No macro ratters in system, and no rental. Never say something you cannot prove when cross examined. Raj.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:05:00 - [197] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Come on CCP, surely you can admit that almost everyone is sick and tired of being locked down by some griefer in a system when in this game there are many ways available to give us skillsets that can make the balance a little more even. *Looks around. Nope still just you! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:06:00 - [198] Originally by: Cipher Jones The thing about it is its not an unfair advantage. Its not unfair because you can stop it and you can do it yourself. No one has managed to show me how yet. Uuum including your very clever self. (Cough..!) Raj.
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:08:00 - [199] OP, Never go FULL ******. click here
Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:11:00 - [200] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Zagdul 1. Join a fleet. You may find your words are a little empty. 2. To counter, get some people in the alliance to bait them. We've done this before, we got our asses kicked but we tried. Learned a few things also and will carry on to attempt a bait again someday. I'll take my isk. This is your counter. Zag.. Baiting depends entirely upon the guy doing the Cloaky Griefing revealing himself to you. I'm not asking for a charitable action from the guy like that, I'm asking for a skillset from CCP to let me eventually find him myself. Thanks for your continued support. Raj. You're not the first person to ask in the past... oh 7 years. Nothing is changed. Make a petition, come up with an idea and put it on the ideas discussion forum. But coming to General Discussion and whining about it solves NOTHING. Getting in a ship and trying to bait at least is something. So, your current solution, with current game mechanics is: 1. HTFU. 2. Get in a combat ship that looks like some tasty hot dropping food. I advised a well tanked Tengu, an awesomely fit golem with plates and shield resists... ya know... bait. 2. Have a fleet waiting on one of the gates or multiple jump bridges leading into the system you're having problems with and wait. Pay this fleet a portion of your bounty so they don't feel like they're doing it for nothing. 3. Hot dropper sees the wonderful piece of prime rib sitting in a Sanctum. 4. ?????? 5. Profit. This is your counter to game mechanics in an MMO. Where you, as an individual cannot counter this. JUST as the enemy, as a single player (unless multi boxing) cannot accomplish the hot drop on their own.

Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:12:00 - [201] Originally by: Razzor Death OMG you are so ****ed I'm going to say it really slow so it gets in your blaintly ****ed carebear skull IF..CLOAKY...IN...SYSTEM...GET..IN...FLEET....AND...RAT...WITH..A...POINT...AND...READY ..TO..RESPOND...WHY...ARE...YOU....SO....BAD...AT...THIS...GAME... I'm tempted to get into my Arazu and come camp your system now. You are a pillock. Lol who says I'm ratting? Who says there are other guys in system with me? Who says we only get Cloaky Griefers at certain times of the the day? Your stupid little argument is shaped to throw abuse and is useless in defence of Cloaky griefing.. Purile really. Raj.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:12:00 - [202] Edited by: Tippia on 02/09/2010 16:13:19 Originally by: Rajheen Orlox This thread is entirely about the the only thing in the game that has no defence or counter tactic when every single other pilot-ownable item or skill is just the opposite and beatable on skill dependancy. No it's not. It's about cloakers and about you being utterly and completely unable to invent, comprehend or employ tactics that other have experience with and which have proven successful. Cloaking, as it happens, have plenty of defences and counter-tactics, so whatever it is you're thinking about, it is certainly not an issue being discussed in this thread. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:19:00 - [203] Originally by: Surfs Down Raj - When the cloaky in your system reads this he aint never going to leave as the carebear tears are the best test. He is growing fat on the copius amounts you are spilling trust me. I cant see CCP ever changing the ability to remain cloaked indefinatly. It would break to much of how fleets work in 0.0 or even lowsec for that matter. What you are basically saying, and trust me we all get it, is by having this person in your 0.0 system perma cloaked is interfering with your safety factor and thus not allowing you to enjoy your game. We get that two. However just because you cannot decloak him does me the game mechanic should be changed because You are affected. Doing so would effect other game play styles in a way that would not be benifical to the greater eve community. You just are not willing to concede that point and your argumentative petulate stance renders any ground you may have had with your point useless. Ill even offer you another way to get him to leave. Pay him to leave. I made a lot of money off RA in the past to do just that. Wel surfs thats a really interesting argument and I respect the reasoned way it's been presented. Thanks for that at least, generally I'm disapointed with the flak (Sheer abuse..) thats come this way entertaining though it's been. I dont want to destroy Cloaking alltogether but I would like to see a way to reveal the cloakers by determined not easy methods and this could be made really difficult and expensive and time consuming but a bit like tracing a call on a telephone it would be absolute in the end. It would be certain. Thats not too much too ask and cloakers can still get an hour or 2 or maybe 3 from their skillset which by any standards is reasonable. Cheers. Raj.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:21:00 - [204] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Thats not too much too ask and cloakers can still get an hour or 2 or maybe 3 from their skillset which by any standards is reasonable. Nope, Cry More! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist

CCP Adida C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:22:00 - [205] Moved from General Discussion Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:23:00 - [206] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I dont want to destroy Cloaking alltogether but I would like to see a way to reveal the cloakers by determined not easy methods and this could be made really difficult and expensive and time consuming but a bit like tracing a call on a telephone it would be absolute in the end. It would be certain. So instead of the "unbalanced" situation where they are (supposedly) 100% safe, you want the "balanced" situation where they are 100% unsafe. àeven though the notion that they are safe to begin with is 100% false. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:23:00 - [207] Originally by: Razzor Death nobody's supporting you we are telling you you are a moron and you are publicly telling everyone your alliance is so bad you cant deal with cloakys. Pure Blind F-NMX6 GA-P6C S-MDYI S4GH-I gogogogo No one can deal with Cloaky griefers.. Thank you. proof from the enemy camp. CCP take note if you are watching Redress the balance.. ? Raj.
Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:26:00 - [208] Originally by: Razzor Death nobody's supporting you we are telling you you are a moron and you are publicly telling everyone your alliance is so bad you cant deal with cloakys. Pure Blind F-NMX6 GA-P6C S-MDYI S4GH-I gogogogo Nonono... He's a moron, in our alliance. Everyone has a couple.
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:27:00 - [209] Nice to see the report feature working. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:27:00 - [210] Originally by: CCP Adida Moved from General Discussion Still here?! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:28:00 - [211] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox No one can deal with Cloaky griefers.. àapart from everyone else but you in this very thread. Well, perhaps Adida can't either, but it's not really her position or role to say. Just one being able to would disprove your claim ù the fact that there are tons of us rather shows that it's simply you who are incapable. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:31:00 - [212] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 02/09/2010 16:32:47 If you are asking for a mechanism to allow you to hunt down AFK cloakers that have been in your system for an EXTENDED period of time, I'm not entirely against that. However such a mechanism should not be something that allows you to instantly locate this individual, or locate an individual that is actively warping cloaked around your system (not AFK). Something along the lines of a POS module that once activated takes 30 minutes to an hour to track down the cloaker (as long as he hasn't warped during that time) has been discussed before... and indeed has some merit. If, however, you are trying to maintain that tactics developed to deal with cloakers seeking to actively engage you (decloaking, and thereby becoming both an actual threat and vulnerable at that point) then I have to disagree with you. There is no tactic that is 100% sure to work, nor should there be, however the various tactics pointed out in this thread are highly effective if done correctly. This is as it should be. I have to admit, it should be interesting to see your reaction the first time that cloaker takes the next step and pops a covert cyno and brings in an attack group. This, in my opinion, is one of the more difficult tactics in EVE today to counter effectively and requires a high degree of skill and coordination to deal with. It's rather like camping an invisible gate with no scout on the other side to see what's coming through, but anyone on the other side can see you clearly. Even so, there are tactics that will give you a reasonable chance of routing the attacking covert hot drop. I would not like to see this change. To sum up, if you restrict yourself to arguing for a mechanic to deal with "true" AFK cloakers (by that I mean a cloaker that is in your system 23/7, and only engages once or twice a day) as a way to combat industry suppresion tactics you "might" be able to make a case for yourself. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Mithius Fear Minmatar Ricdic Is Not Suitably Edible New Eden Research.	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:31:00 - [213] Quote: Lol who says I'm ratting? Who says there are other guys in system with me? Who says we only get Cloaky Griefers at certain times of the the day? And now we have figured out the motive to this thread. Raj is sat in some backwater system with his lone bot running. Somebody has worked this out and put a cloaky alt in there to mess with his bot. He is probably paying for use of the system so cant move somewhere else like anyone else would do. He only knows the guys is on 23/7 because is because his bot is not producing any loot. EVE player base response working as intended. The only people that would benefit removing perma cloak are players who run bots.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:31:00 - [214] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I dont want to destroy Cloaking alltogether but I would like to see a way to reveal the cloakers by determined not easy methods and this could be made really difficult and expensive and time consuming but a bit like tracing a call on a telephone it would be absolute in the end. It would be certain. So instead of the "unbalanced" situation where they are (supposedly) 100% safe, you want the "balanced" situation where they are 100% unsafe. àeven though the notion that they are safe to begin with is 100% false. You are moving this out of context to protect your current ability to stay undetected for an indefinite (In game terms) time. That is an imbalance that this thread was designed to throw some light on. Nothing else in the game that is player owned or earned is 100 percent safe. The game should not award that dubious prize to a Cloaky griefer? Not unless I can impenatrable shield or forever cap or infinite armor. Raj.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:34:00 - [215] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox That is an imbalance that this thread was designed to throw some light on. Nothing else in the game that is player owned or earned is 100 percent safe. Neither is the fabled cloaky griefer, so where the imbalance? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:35:00 - [216] Originally by: Mithius Fear Quote: Lol who says I'm ratting? Who says there are other guys in system with me? Who says we only get Cloaky Griefers at certain times of the the day? And now we have figured out the motive to this thread. Raj is sat in some backwater system with his lone bot running. Somebody has worked this out and put a cloaky alt in there to mess with his bot. He is probably paying for use of the system so cant move somewhere else like anyone else would do. He only knows the guys is on 23/7 because is because his bot is not producing any loot. EVE player base response working as intended. The only people that would benefit removing perma cloak are players who run bots. I give total permission for ANY CCP official to check out my history now. You throw mud but oh look. It's not sticking. The game mechanic in the area of cloaking is bent and should be balanced, cloaking should certainly work, but persistent all day cloaking should be vulnerable to detection by any determined and suitably equipped force. Raj.
Aessoroz	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:38:00 - [217] Edited by: Aessoroz on 02/09/2010 16:37:54 You may be a blue to my main, but not my alt alt, prepare to be cloaky griefed :D L4 locator agents ftw.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:38:00 - [218] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rajheen Orlox No one can deal with Cloaky griefers.. àapart from everyone else but you in this very thread. Well, perhaps Adida can't either, but it's not really her position or role to say. Just one being able to would disprove your claim ù the fact that there are tons of us rather shows that it's simply you who are incapable. You (Yes you..) cannot defeat a Cloaky Griefer. At this time it's impossible to reveal one other than by accident. By design, not possible. We need a skillset to give us the capability. Raj.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:38:00 - [219] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rajheen Orlox That is an imbalance that this thread was designed to throw some light on. Nothing else in the game that is player owned or earned is 100 percent safe. Neither is the fabled cloaky griefer, so where the imbalance? Can someone do the calculations and figure out how much time it would take to cover about 100au3 space in the average frigate to try and bump the cloak off of a safed cloaker to remind him just how wrong he is? That's all I'll contribute to this thread... I don't even know where it came from.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:39:00 - [220] Trippa He is in the dead forum now where he can spew all he wants. The Important thing is we got him off of GD. We can leave him here to bump his fail thread in peace. -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist

Aessoroz	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:43:00 - [221] Originally by: Rhadia Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rajheen Orlox That is an imbalance that this thread was designed to throw some light on. Nothing else in the game that is player owned or earned is 100 percent safe. Neither is the fabled cloaky griefer, so where the imbalance? Can someone do the calculations and figure out how much time it would take to cover about 100au3 space in the average frigate to try and bump the cloak off of a safed cloaker to remind him just how wrong he is? That's all I'll contribute to this thread... I don't even know where it came from. Cloakys have the disadvatange of.... if they fit covert cloaks, they most likely are not that hard to kill if you put the proper dps on them if they fit normal cloaks, they have targeting delays so you have to be afk ratting like a nub.
Hauling Hal	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:47:00 - [222] Raj, You keep stating that you can't beat a cloaky griefer, but the point is a cloaky giefer can't do anything to you 'AS HE IS CLOAKED'. Now, when he decloaks he can attack you, so your point now is that you get killed by someone that decloaks. Funnily enough, it is possible to kill someone that decloaks and some of us have ships setup specifically to do that. Please quit trying to justfiy your 'opinion' as fact, as the only likely outcome is that half the people reading this get a cloaking ship before heading to a locator agent.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:47:00 - [223] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox You (Yes you..) cannot defeat a Cloaky Griefer. Yes I can. Want to know the secret? You've already been told it, but I'll tell you once again, and maybe it'll stick this time: I. Shoot. Him. He. Go. Poof!. You see, in order to "grief" me, he has to uncloak. So he dies. In order not to die, he has to say cloaked, so he cannot grief me. The two are mutually exclusive. The only way for him to grief you without exposing himself to explosive death is if you, yourself, actively choose to be griefed by his presence by working yourself into a frenzy of fear and paranoia. It is entirely your fault. Quote: At this time it's impossible to reveal one other than by accident. Who needs accidents? HE WILL REVEAL HIMSELF BY HIS OWN CHOICE. You, personally, may not be able to defeat them, but that's just you. Others can. Many of us, in fact. Don't think even for a second that you can generalise your failure to the entire EVE player base. Originally by: Alara IonStorm Trippa He is in the dead forum now where he can spew all he wants. The Important thing is we got him off of GD. I know, but I have this nanve view of humans that they can actually learnà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:48:00 - [224] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Trippa He is in the dead forum now where he can spew all he wants. The Important thing is we got him off of GD. We can leave him here to bump his fail thread in peace. My thread drew attention from the trolls such as yourself and got some attention a lot of you didnt want to see coming this way. Your defence of a unbalanced game mechanic (The only UNDEFENDABLE mechanich in the game BTW..) is failing more than mine. I'll contact you when they drop the indefinite hidey trick and we'll see how your making isk then? CCP please redress the Cloaky Griefer imbalance. Raj.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:51:00 - [225] Originally by: Aessoroz Cloakys have the disadvatange of.... if they fit covert cloaks, they most likely are not that hard to kill if you put the proper dps on them if they fit normal cloaks, they have targeting delays so you have to be afk ratting like a nub. And cloakies have the advantage of... Being able to become 100% invulnerable to all attempts to find, or hurt them within the blink of an eye, anywhere they want, for no cap, no fuel, with no limit to time. Something that ALL OTHER SHIPS IN THE GAME are limited to restricting themselves to a single, visible, immobile state inside a POS shield (which can be destroyed over time) or by docking into a station (Which is a touchy subject due to docking games, but inevitably leaves you vulnerable upon undocking to attack).
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:51:00 - [226] Quote: He's a moron, in our alliance click here
Aessoroz	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:52:00 - [227] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Alara IonStorm Trippa He is in the dead forum now where he can spew all he wants. The Important thing is we got him off of GD. We can leave him here to bump his fail thread in peace. My thread drew attention from the trolls such as yourself and got some attention a lot of you didnt want to see coming this way. Your defence of a unbalanced game mechanic (The only UNDEFENDABLE mechanich in the game BTW..) is failing more than mine. I'll contact you when they drop the indefinite hidey trick and we'll see how your making isk then? CCP please redress the Cloaky Griefer imbalance. Raj. I want to have you set red so so so badly.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:52:00 - [228] Originally by: Hauling Hal Raj, You keep stating that you can't beat a cloaky griefer, but the point is a cloaky giefer can't do anything to you 'AS HE IS CLOAKED'. Now, when he decloaks he can attack you, so your point now is that you get killed by someone that decloaks. Funnily enough, it is possible to kill someone that decloaks and some of us have ships setup specifically to do that. Please quit trying to justfiy your 'opinion' as fact, as the only likely outcome is that half the people reading this get a cloaking ship before heading to a locator agent. Oh thats like saying that an alliance in a station has no potential for damage. That argument is weak and starts at the premise that Mr. Cloaky Griefer has to reveal himself in front of you in range and in a easy poppable ship. So unless the situation exactly meets your criteria, where it often does NOT. Then situan Foobar. eh? Go figure. Raj.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:54:00 - [229] Originally by: Rhadia And cloakies have the advantage of... Being able to become 100% invulnerable to all attempts to find, or hurt them within the blink of an eye, ~~anywhere they want~~ under the right circumstances, for no cap, no fuel, with no limit to time, and have to pay for this with various drawbacks. Something that ALL OTHER SHIPS IN THE GAME can do. Fix'd. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:57:00 - [230] Raj, Before we go any further please define "Cloaky Griefer". I think until you let us know what this type of game play is we can give you a proper counter. This is a new term for 0.0 life that most of us who have lived here a long time dont understand what it means. We understand "Cloaky PVPer" or "Cloaky scout" but isnt grief a term you use when someone is preventing you from playing the game. Please let us know how this single cloaky guy is preventing you from play the game. Black

Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:59:00 - [231] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rhadia And cloakies have the advantage of... Being able to become 100% invulnerable to all attempts to find, or hurt them within the blink of an eye, ~~anywhere they want~~ under the right circumstances, for no cap, no fuel, with no limit to time, and have to pay for this with various drawbacks. Something that ALL OTHER SHIPS IN THE GAME can do. Fix'd. Under the right circumstances, which is about 99.9 Percent of the time considering how many places in Eve are more than 2000 meters from an object. Other ships in the game can cloak, sure, but those are the ones that get REAL penalties from the module- Your proposed "penalties" for being able to cloak is a TII ship that is in fact still more powerful than T1 variants, right? Right....
DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:00:00 - [232] Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 02/09/2010 16:32:47 If you are asking for a mechanism to allow you to hunt down AFK cloakers that have been in your system for an EXTENDED period of time, I'm not entirely against that. However such a mechanism should not be something that allows you to instantly locate this individual, or locate an individual that is actively warping cloaked around your system (not AFK). Something along the lines of a POS module that once activated takes 30 minutes to an hour to track down the cloaker (as long as he hasn't warped during that time) has been discussed before... and indeed has some merit. If, however, you are trying to maintain that tactics developed to deal with cloakers seeking to actively engage you (decloaking, and thereby becoming both an actual threat and vulnerable at that point) then I have to disagree with you. There is no tactic that is 100% sure to work, nor should there be, however the various tactics pointed out in this thread are highly effective if done correctly. This is as it should be. I have to admit, it should be interesting to see your reaction the first time that cloaker takes the next step and pops a covert cyno and brings in an attack group. This, in my opinion, is one of the more difficult tactics in EVE today to counter effectively and requires a high degree of skill and coordination to deal with. It's rather like camping an invisible gate with no scout on the other side to see what's coming through, but anyone on the other side can see you clearly. Even so, there are tactics that will give you a reasonable chance of routing the attacking covert hot drop. I would not like to see this change. To sum up, if you restrict yourself to arguing for a mechanic to deal with "true" AFK cloakers (by that I mean a cloaker that is in your system 23/7, and only engages once or twice a day) as a way to combat industry suppresion tactics you "might" be able to make a case for yourself. hello ranger, Nice post. I think DNS has found its next target LOL. By the way tell your guys they did a great job and we had alot of fun fights. Black
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:03:00 - [233] Originally by: Rhadia Under the right circumstances, which is about 99.9 Percent of the time considering how many places in Eve are more than 2000 meters from an object. àand not being locked. Quote: Other ships in the game can cloak, sure, but those are the ones that get REAL penalties from the module- Your proposed "penalties" for being able to cloak is a TII ship that is in fact still more powerful than T1 variants, right? Right.... I haven't proposed anything. Oh and the ships that don't receive penalties are universally made out of wet cardboard and project about as much damage ù that's their drawback. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

CCP Adida C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:07:00 - [234] Deleted spam that was in 3 other threads Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online

Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:11:00 - [235] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rhadia Under the right circumstances, which is about 99.9 Percent of the time considering how many places in Eve are more than 2000 meters from an object. àand not being locked. Quote: Other ships in the game can cloak, sure, but those are the ones that get REAL penalties from the module- Your proposed "penalties" for being able to cloak is a TII ship that is in fact still more powerful than T1 variants, right? Right.... I haven't proposed anything. Oh and the ships that don't receive penalties are universally made out of wet cardboard and project about as much damage ù that's their drawback. Correct me if I'm wrong, but their paper tank is mostly a result of choice in fitting. As planned by CCP obviously you are mostly forced to fit the ship for it's proper EWAR, but most of the Recon ships have the slots available to tank just as good as any T1 ship it was based on. Maybe you're just butthurt about not having a Recon with a bonus to shield boost amount. As far as locked goes... should I mention the scan resolution it takes to lock a stealth bomber before it can cloak (EX: As it comes through a gate, as it launches it's bomb and warps immediately afterwards, etc). Or should I get into the mechanics of the Falcon and the fact that it's absolutely designed to break locks? Or that it's hard to tackle a Rapier that is webbing and kill everything coming into disrupt range? Or the Pilgrim that easily shuts off even the damage controls of battlecruisers, not to mention the instant capacitor shut down of frigates (making tackling pretty much impossible). In every situation where a ship is overpowered in some way: You will find that people abuse it as much as they can. Especially in the case of stealth bombers you will find that while they sit there cloaked, they'll usually use their careless freetime in hostile territory (HAH, it's funny because there is absolutely no risk to a cloaked ship) they come here to desperately defend their hopelessly broken tactic.
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:14:00 - [236] Edited by: Razzor Death on 02/09/2010 17:14:24 Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Razzor Death OMG you are so ****ed I'm going to say it really slow so it gets in your blaintly ***ed carebear skull IF..CLOAKY...IN...SYSTEM...GET..IN...FLEET....AND...RAT...WITH..A...POINT...AND...READY ..TO..RESPOND...WHY...ARE...YOU....SO....BAD...AT...THIS...GAME... I'm tempted to get into my Arazu and come camp your system now. You are a pillock. Lol who says I'm ratting? Who says there are other guys in system with me? Who says we only get Cloaky Griefers at certain times of the the day? Your stupid little argument is shaped to throw abuse and is useless in defence of Cloaky griefing.. Purile really. Raj. Well its how the rest of us deal with it you moron and if your alliance can't then its back to highsec with you princess. -------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v*
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:14:00 - [237] Originally by: Rhadia Stuff... Ahh the fail circle is complete, Rhadia the 30 man blob threatening alt is here. (waits for tears and rage) Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:16:00 - [238] Originally by: DNSBLACK Edited by: DNSBLACK on 02/09/2010 17:01:34 Raj, Before we go any further please define "Cloaky Griefer". I think until you let us know what this type of game play is we can't give you a proper counter. This is a new term for 0.0 life that most of us who have lived here a long time dont understand what it means. We understand "Cloaky PVPer" or "Cloaky scout" but isnt grief a term you use when someone is preventing you from playing the game. Please let us know how this single cloaky guy is preventing you from play the game. Black I can see where you are going. But even superhuman PvP ers like you really cannot defend the indefensible. When someone cloaks up in a system where there are POS's etc and decides to stay hidden for the duration of the day. (Day after day..) he has only nuisance value. This as you well know is the definition of a "Cloaky Griefer.." he cloaks he's there to grief. It works, miners cannot mine, ratters cannot rat, etc etc. It may suprise you but not everyone is in 0.0 to PvP additionally, corps rarely have all their guys on at the same times.. There are varying levels of PvP capability and defence or offense and take a snapshot of any corp any time and it's rarely all the guys are there to do.. (Well do what? - Warp about the system shouting "I have cheese!" at the Griefer?)trying to bait him? Thats not his job is it? We cannot find him but only because none of us has a skillset that allows us to eventually disclose his position. We cannot pull that thorn. That includes yourself and any one else in the whole damned game. Raj.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:23:00 - [239] Edited by: Tippia on 02/09/2010 17:26:45 Originally by: Rhadia Correct me if I'm wrong, but their paper tank is mostly a result of choice in fitting. As planned by CCP obviously you are mostly forced to fit the ship for it's proper EWAR, but most of the Recon ships have the slots available to tank just as good as any T1 ship it was based on. àwhich is pretty much carboard, yes. Quote: Maybe you're just butthurt about not having a Recon with a bonus to shield boost amount. Why would I be? Quote: As far as locked goes... should I mention à Not necessary since they don't affect when they can hide. Originally by: Rajheen Orlox When someone cloaks up in a system where there are POS's etc and decides to stay hidden for the duration of the day. (Day after day..) he has only nuisance value. This as you well know is the definition of a "Cloaky Griefer.." he cloaks he's there to grief. No it's not ù that's a term you've just pull out of your nethers; you've just renamed the standard AFK cloaker. Quote: It works, miners cannot mine, ratters cannot rat, etc etc. It works if you let it ù the choice is entirely yours. Thus the solution is entirely yours, as has been stated from the get-go: you don't let yourself be griefed. It's very simple. It is very effective. Quote: We cannot pull that thorn. That includes yourself and any one else in the whole damned game. Again: don't generalise your failure to the rest of the players. Plenty of us can defeat that particular tactic with ease. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:25:00 - [240] Originally by: Razzor Death Well its how the rest of us deal with it you moron and if your alliance can't then its back to highsec with you princess. But you are not dealing with anything are you? you are just supporting a failed mechanic that has no counter tactic that we as players can use to defeat Cloaky Griefers, Perma Cloakies whatever name you think it's important to call it. Grow up, man up and lose your unfair advantage to spoil the game by griefing. CCP Please even the balance and give us the skillsets to detect long term Cloaky griefers earning huge iskies by stealth. (Even if it takes us huge ammounts of effort and training.) We have real money to spend in RL and these griefers make it impossible to enjoy our gametime freely. Raj.

darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:26:00 - [241] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I can see where you are going. But even superhuman PvP ers like you really cannot defend the indefensible. When someone cloaks up in a system where there are POS's etc and decides to stay hidden for the duration of the day. (Day after day..) he has only nuisance value. This as you well know is the definition of a "Cloaky Griefer.." he cloaks he's there to grief. It works, OMG Quote: miners cannot mine you can organise guards for your miners? falcons/arazu next to them e.g. Quote: ratters cannot rat, etc etc. you can fit your ships properly? ratting in pvp ships works very well. Quote: It may suprise you but not everyone is in 0.0 to PvP additionally, corps rarely have all their guys on at the same times.. This doesnt mean you can live in 0.0 like it would be highsec and it never ever should be like that. Quote: There are varying levels of PvP capability and defence or offense and take a snapshot of any corp any time and it's rarely all the guys are there to do.. (Well do what? - Warp about the system shouting "I have cheese!" at the Griefer?)trying to bait him? Thats not his job is it? We cannot find him but only because none of us has a skillset that allows us to eventually disclose his position. You dont have to know his position, at his current position/situation he cant do anything to you beyond looking at you. he is cloaked. he cant activate any modules or so Quote: We cannot blob him. Fixed it for you. The thing is pretty simple. be prepared to fight or run all the time. especially in 0.0. If the cloaked guy can harm you, you can harm him. Now go and prepare. (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.)
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:27:00 - [242] Originally by: Aessoroz Originally by: Rajheen Orlox My thread drew attention from the trolls such as yourself and got some attention a lot of you didnt want to see coming this way. Your defence of a unbalanced game mechanic (The only UNDEFENDABLE mechanich in the game BTW..) is failing more than mine. I'll contact you when they drop the indefinite hidey trick and we'll see how your making isk then? CCP please redress the Cloaky Griefer imbalance. Raj. I want to have you set red so so so badly. Oh Yawn! Raj.
Jack Gilligan Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:30:00 - [243] Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 02/09/2010 17:31:04 IMHO, the best way to deal with the AFK cloaky situation is twofold... There needs to be a hard limit on how long you can stay logged in, yet completely inactive (ie: not doing anything at all). 60 minutes maximum, I'd like it set to 30 minutes. This would also be a good thing as it would reduce wasted resources on the server. There should be some sort of scanning mechanism available to the sovereignty holder to locate anyone within their systems. This should be limited, however, as to not be an "Iwin" button, but it should be there. I'd suggest that a timer be used, where a cloaker who is not a member of the sov holding entity enter a system where their cloak is 100% invulnerable to detection by a system scanner for the first 30 minutes they are in the system. That resistance, however, decays at a rate of 25% every half hour that they remain in the system and do not invoke agression (ie: engages in a fight). The cloak would not itself deactivate, but upon reaching zero (after 2 hours of sitting in a system and not engaging in a fight) the scanner has a 100% chance of providing a warp in on their location. Engaging in a fight resets resistance to 100% and once again gives them 30 minutes of 100% undetectability. This would allow an ACTIVE cloaky gang or solo fighter the ability to remain cloaked while actually engaging in fights but not the ability to AFK forever with no consequence. Cloaking harassment would even still be possible, IF the pilot is active and constantly changing location (ie: jumping safe spots to avoid getting warped onto), or by in taking "potshots" at targets to get agression and reset their resistance to 100% every half hour, or to simply leave the system and return. The idea is to reward activity and penalize inactivity, while requiring that cloakers do something to "earn" their resistance. I think this is the mechanism by which to do this, the timers can be quibbled with but at least it allows stealth gangs to operate but provides benefits to owning space.
Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:31:00 - [244] OP is clueless, resorts to personal attacks when proven wrong and ignores all the valid and very workable solutions. If mods don't close the thread for extensive trolling by OP like i reported, just stop feeding the troll and hope he dies off. Originally by: Freyya QUoting again just in case you missed my post just now or are willfully ignoring it. Also fixed link since my linking skills failed @ page 3 bye griefer Originally by: Freyya Edited by: Freyya on 02/09/2010 14:57:24 Originally by: Rajheen Orlox All those clever sh+ts and not ONE of them can actually come up with a way to defeat a Cloaking Griefer (Reveal his position, trap him, kill him..) 1 Billion isk to the person who can reveal a determined Cloaky Griefer succesfully time after time.. Raj. Ok, you keep changing the rules; 1st it was a way to reveal the cloaker, now it's time after time again. Anyways, send me my bill as i linked a killmail on page 3 that shows you how to do it. null Grief the griefer Provide a juicy target which he knows he can take or escape if it goes wrong, cloak a bomber next to it, wait till he makes a funrun or actually engages and shoot the crap out of him. If he doesn't take the bait after several belts/whatever then he's actually afk and thus nothing to worry about at that time. What also helps is to then have a few friends in system and this bit is important; They are ratting in PVP TANKED SHIPS INSTEAD OF YOUR COOKY CUTTER NPC FITS and can warp (stay in same fleet) in whenever sh+t hits the fan. They are making isk and are on standby in case. That's 2 ways to reveal, trap and kill a cloaker. Now i'm not greedy but i'll take the 1 bil instead of 2 for 2 ways to do it. Those solutions work every time after time so put up or shut up. The ball is now in your court. /me starts to wait on several more excuses to avoid putting up. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:31:00 - [245] Originally by: darius mclever (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.) Darius bud, they can't mine or rat solo. Shocking state of affairs tbh. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Hauling Hal	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:33:00 - [246] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Hauling Hal Raj, You keep stating that you can't beat a cloaky griefer, but the point is a cloaky giefer can't do anything to you 'AS HE IS CLOAKED'. Now, when he decloaks he can attack you, so your point now is that you get killed by someone that decloaks. Funnily enough, it is possible to kill someone that decloaks and some of us have ships setup specifically to do that. Please quit trying to justfiy your 'opinion' as fact, as the only likely outcome is that half the people reading this get a cloaking ship before heading to a locator agent. Oh thats like saying that an alliance in a station has no potential for damage. That argument is weak and starts at the premise that Mr. Cloaky Griefer has to reveal himself in front of you in range and in a easy poppable ship. So unless the situation exactly meets your criteria, where it often does NOT. Then situan Foobar. eh? Go figure. Raj. But you aren't complaining about docked pilots, so 'potential to do damage' isn't the issue. if it was you would be complaining about: Docked pilots, Cloaked Pilots, Logged out pilots. I am still trying to work out what you are actually complaining about, only I can't.
Mithius Fear Minmatar Ricdic Is Not Suitably Edible New Eden Research.	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:34:00 - [247] Basically the OP is in dangerous space. He can't defend it so he is blaming perma cloaking. He will be back in highsec in no time
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:39:00 - [248] Originally by: darius mclever Fixed it for you. ------No you just dribbled------------------- The thing is pretty simple. be prepared to fight or run all the time. especially in 0.0. If the cloaked guy can harm you, you can harm him. Now go and prepare. (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.) he may not harm just me.. maybe he's out to harm a mining fleet with a hot drop? Of say fifty odd ships the odd dreadnought perhaps. Oh yeah I'm ready for that.. Me an my corp. Realistically your argument doesn't hold warm water pal and doesnt solve a real imbalance in the game that is not being currently addressed by CCP. But thats why I'm here aint it? Happy days. Raj.
Myz Toyou APOCALYPSE LEGION	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:39:00 - [249] Originally by: AFK Cloaker Point on AFK Cloaker, someone help me in belt IX-3, need more dps !!!!!!
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:45:00 - [250] Originally by: Myz Toyou Originally by: AFK Cloaker Point on AFK Cloaker, someone help me in belt IX-3, need more dps !!!!!! He is not AFK at all he lied to us! CCP help! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist

Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:45:00 - [251] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: darius mclever Fixed it for you. ------No you just dribbled------------------- The thing is pretty simple. be prepared to fight or run all the time. especially in 0.0. If the cloaked guy can harm you, you can harm him. Now go and prepare. (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.) he may not harm just me.. maybe he's out to harm a mining fleet with a hot drop? Of say fifty odd ships the odd dreadnought perhaps. Oh yeah I'm ready for that.. Me an my corp. Realistically your argument doesn't hold warm water pal and doesnt solve a real imbalance in the game that is not being currently addressed by CCP. But thats why I'm here aint it? Happy days. Raj. Check your evegate since you're not in game.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:45:00 - [252] Originally by: Freyya bye griefer Ok, you keep changing the rules; 1st it was a way to reveal the cloaker, now it's time after time again. Anyways, send me my bill as i linked a killmail on page 3 that shows you how to do it. null Grief the griefer Provide a juicy target which he knows he can take or escape if it goes wrong, cloak a bomber next to it, wait till he makes a funrun or actually engages and shoot the crap out of him. If he doesn't take the bait after several belts/whatever then he's actually afk and thus nothing to worry about at that time. What also helps is to then have a few friends in system and this bit is important; They are ratting in PVP TANKED SHIPS INSTEAD OF YOUR COOKY CUTTER NPC FITS and can warp (stay in same fleet) in whenever sh+t hits the fan. They are making isk and are on standby in case. That's 2 ways to reveal, trap and kill a cloaker. Now i'm not greedy but i'll take the 1 bil instead of 2 for 2 ways to do it. Those solutions work every time after time so put up or shut up. The ball is now in your court. /me starts to wait on several more excuses to avoid putting up. A single killmail is not proof of a tactic that works to reveal and entrap and kill any Cloaky griefer. Whine all you like but by default your "Tactic" relies on the Cloaky Griefer just giving himself up to you or being revealed by accident. Because there is no tactic that will "FORCE" him to decloak is there? Try harder, repeating what you said earlier wins no points. And importantly no "one.." yes that's 1 Billion isk either. Raj.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:49:00 - [253] Originally by: Mag's Originally by: darius mclever (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.) Darius bud, they can't mine or rat solo. Shocking state of affairs tbh. Oh, would that be solo with the potential from an enemy hotdrop? Wow you must be good, tell me, how can you afford to lose so many ships one after the other? Come on do tell were all waiting to hear you can detect undetectable ships and tell if theyre hot dropping or just Griefing? (Holds hand to ear to hear.. silence..) Raj.
DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:50:00 - [254] Originally by: darius mclever Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I can see where you are going. But even superhuman PvP ers like you really cannot defend the indefensible. When someone cloaks up in a system where there are POS's etc and decides to stay hidden for the duration of the day. (Day after day..) he has only nuisance value. This as you well know is the definition of a "Cloaky Griefer.." he cloaks he's there to grief. It works, OMG Quote: miners cannot mine you can organise guards for your miners? falcons/arazu next to them e.g. Quote: ratters cannot rat, etc etc. you can fit your ships properly? ratting in pvp ships works very well. Quote: It may suprise you but not everyone is in 0.0 to PvP additionally, corps rarely have all their guys on at the same times.. This doesnt mean you can live in 0.0 like it would be highsec and it never ever should be like that. Quote: There are varying levels of PvP capability and defence or offense and take a snapshot of any corp any time and it's rarely all the guys are there to do.. (Well do what? - Warp about the system shouting "I have cheese!" at the Griefer?)trying to bait him? Thats not his job is it? We cannot find him but only because none of us has a skillset that allows us to eventually disclose his position. You dont have to know his position, at his current position/situation he cant do anything to you beyond looking at you. he is cloaked. he cant activate any modules or so Quote: We cannot blob him. Fixed it for you. The thing is pretty simple. be prepared to fight or run all the time. especially in 0.0. If the cloaked guy can harm you, you can harm him. Now go and prepare. (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.) Ok from now on this is what i will quote for you Raj, I could not have responded better. Griefing Cloaker LOL. Please stop RAJ you are looking like a WOW player everytime you post
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:51:00 - [255] Originally by: Hauling Hal But you aren't complaining about docked pilots, so 'potential to do damage' isn't the issue. if it was you would be complaining about: Docked pilots, Cloaked Pilots, Logged out pilots. I am still trying to work out what you are actually complaining about, only I can't. I think the words you are groping for are "I won't." Raj.
Kassar Temuja	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:51:00 - [256] Raj, Please log in to Eve at once. KT Alliance Consigliere
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:52:00 - [257] Edited by: Mag''s on 02/09/2010 17:54:47 Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: darius mclever Post. he may not harm just me.. maybe he's out to harm a mining fleet with a hot drop? Of say fifty odd ships the odd dreadnought perhaps. Oh yeah I'm ready for that.. Me an my corp. Realistically your argument doesn't hold warm water pal and doesnt solve a real imbalance in the game that is not being currently addressed by CCP. But thats why I'm here aint it? Happy days. Raj. So your counter argument is... But, but, what about the hotdrop? Edit: Originally by: Kassar Temuja Raj, Please log in to Eve at once. KT Alliance Consigliere Ooh someone's in trouble me thinks. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:56:00 - [258] Originally by: Mithius Fear Basically the OP is in dangerous space. He can't defend it so he is blaming perma cloaking. He will be back in highsec in no time You couldnt predict for peanuts sonny.. :) Most of my chars life has been spent in 0.0.. I'm not actually scared you know... You people seem to think my char is me lol. i'm a real person really. I dont confuse him with me. His game is important to me though as it costs me real cash. I wont have it spoiled by unbalanced abilities in the game. :) Raj.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:59:00 - [259] Quote: His game is important to me though as it costs me real cash. One would think you would strive to get competent at playing it then. Isn't it time for you to go? I think someone is tired of you making your outfit look inept. 07 Shout out to DNS. Well played and see you next time through. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
DNSSauce	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:01:00 - [260] Originally by: DNSBLACK Originally by: darius mclever Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I can see where you are going. But even superhuman PvP ers like you really cannot defend the indefensible. When someone cloaks up in a system where there are POS's etc and decides to stay hidden for the duration of the day. (Day after day..) he has only nuisance value. This as you well know is the definition of a "Cloaky Griefer.." he cloaks he's there to grief. It works, OMG Quote: miners cannot mine you can organise guards for your miners? falcons/arazu next to them e.g. Quote: ratters cannot rat, etc etc. you can fit your ships properly? ratting in pvp ships works very well. Quote: It may suprise you but not everyone is in 0.0 to PvP additionally, corps rarely have all their guys on at the same times.. This doesnt mean you can live in 0.0 like it would be highsec and it never ever should be like that. Quote: There are varying levels of PvP capability and defence or offense and take a snapshot of any corp any time and it's rarely all the guys are there to do.. (Well do what? - Warp about the system shouting "I have cheese!" at the Griefer?)trying to bait him? Thats not his job is it? We cannot find him but only because none of us has a skillset that allows us to eventually disclose his position. You dont have to know his position, at his current position/situation he cant do anything to you beyond looking at you. he is cloaked. he cant activate any modules or so Quote: We cannot blob him. Fixed it for you. The thing is pretty simple. be prepared to fight or run all the time. especially in 0.0. If the cloaked guy can harm you, you can harm him. Now go and prepare. (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.) Ok from now on this is what i will quote for you Raj, I could not have responded better. Griefing Cloaker LOL. Please stop RAJ you are looking like a WOW player everytime you post Imbalanced game mechanics LOL.

Mithius Fear Minmatar Ricdic Is Not Suitably Edible New Eden Research.	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:01:00 - [261] Quote: he may not harm just me.. maybe he's out to harm a mining fleet with a hot drop? Of say fifty odd ships the odd dreadnought perhaps. Oh yeah I'm ready for that.. Me an my corp. see theres your problem. You CANT defend the space your in. It is NOT your space at all. Simply Yours to defend. If they drop 50 ships then you drop 100. If they drop 100 then you drop 200. The side that beats the other will then have the right to try and defend that space. If that is not you then highsec it is. Covops are used extensivly in 0.0 and a perma cloak is needed for many types of ops with every single 0.0 alliance uses to protect their space and or gain more space. Why should I lose the ability to perma cloak sat on an enemy POS reporting back to my alliance enemy fleet makeups so you can mine/rat in space you so clearly should not be in? How do you know that perma cloaker is in your system for another reason?
Kassar Temuja	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:05:00 - [262] Raj, If you a man, log in to Eve and prepare for outprocessing. KT Alliance Consigliere
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:19:00 - [263] Originally by: Kassar Temuja Raj, If you a man, log in to Eve and prepare for outprocessing. KT Alliance Consigliere Bolded the funny parts. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Sebastian Hoch	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:20:00 - [264] I have not seen anyone point out the most obvious tactic to counter an afk cloaker and that is by ratting/mining in a system that they are not in. I have logged a lot of hours in my SB in the last month, but I have been unable to go AFK in more than one system at a time, or to move to a new system while AFK. Any tips from veteran AFK'rs would be welcome. /snark
Kassar Temuja	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:34:00 - [265] Posters: Courtesy Notice Please do not bother baiting the OP. He has been taken into custody and will not be posting further on this thread. w/r KT FA Consigliere
Etrias Jhozah Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:42:00 - [266] Dear Raj, Welcome to the F&ID forum. You may wonder why this post got moved here. Well, to put it mildly, it's because there's been a metric ****-ton of similar posts made and on occasion, people actually talk proposals to fix problems. Posturing and chest banging here, much like you'd find on COAD, doesn't get as much mileage. If you'll do a quick search of just this forum, you'll notice that this very topic has been beaten into the ground so many times, it has tired of becoming the zombie topic that wouldn't die. And you don't even have an idea to fix your perceived problem. Your argument has pretty severe logic problems. Problem one: AFK and ganker do not mix. They are either AFK (stands for away from keyboard if you didn't know before) and no threat to you or ganking...which as far as I know, perfectly fine. Cloaking AFK harms no one, ganking requires you turn off the cloak module. Not sure what you think the problem is. Problem two: you've only defined that cloaky gankers are a problem to you, not something systemic with the game itself. In fact, bringing up you lost an expensive ship to a cloaky ganker probably hurts your argument. You know the old adage, don't fly what you can't afford to lose...because you will. I've lost count of how many people who have posted in the thread and said "you're doing it wrong". I would agree with them. The counter that works is likely something you and your corp is unwilling to do. Problem three: this doesn't help. An earlier quote from you: "the game is unalanced [sic] for those of us who can do nothing against them." And so there you go. You've defined the problem as yourself...that you can't handle the problem, not that the problem itself isn't solvable. If cloaky ganking really bothers you, I'd advise you to stay away from wormholes. If you can't defend a system with an active local channel popping up everyone who steps into the system, then you'll likely rage-quit when you get popped by the cloaks you had no idea were in your system. Anyway, this is a non-problem and you haven't even come up with any suggestion to fix it. You could try, of course, but judging from your previous posts (a lot in one day, I've got to say...lot's of free time on your hands it seems), I'm guessing you'll continue your trend of insults and the thread will get locked eventually from your incessant trolling. Good day.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:44:00 - [267] Originally by: Kassar Temuja Posters: Courtesy Notice Please do not bother baiting the OP. He has been taken into custody and will not be posting further on this thread. w/r KT FA Consigliere Thank you!:)
Leaving Eve Send Your Stuff To Me	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:45:00 - [268] Edited by: Leaving Eve on 02/09/2010 18:45:38 As you seem to be in the process of being kicked from your corp/alliance. Maybe you are also Leaving Eve. You can contract any items and send all your ISK to me. Kind regards. CEO of Send Your Stuff To Me Corp. Edit: In-game mail sent.
Scott Ryder Amarr art of eve Gunmen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:47:00 - [269] On the other hand Raj wont have to worry about cloakers any more In highsec cloakers wont hurt you
Kassar Temuja	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:48:00 - [270] Ladies and Gentlemen: The OP will not be posting further on this or any other topic. The opinions expressed by the OP do not reflect the policy positions of Fatal Ascension. Please do not expect any further replies from the OP or from any representative of FA. w/r KT Fatal Ascension Consigliere

Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:56:00 - [271] Originally by: Kassar Temuja Ladies and Gentlemen: The OP will not be posting further on this or any other topic. The opinions expressed by the OP do not reflect the policy positions of Fatal Ascension. Please do not expect any further replies from the OP or from any representative of FA. w/r KT Fatal Ascension Consigliere Nicely handled. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.09.02 19:03:00 - [272] Originally by: Kassar Temuja Ladies and Gentlemen: The OP will not be posting further on this or any other topic. The opinions expressed by the OP do not reflect the policy positions of Fatal Ascension. Please do not expect any further replies from the OP or from any representative of FA. w/r KT Fatal Ascension Consigliere Could you perhaps also make him honor the wager he made and lost? j/k Unless you can do it..... ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.02 19:08:00 - [273] It's fairly common knowledge that when these trolls run out of groundless arguments to use they resort to threats in-game. Rather than keeping their fight on the forums they don't have the moral constitution to keep things civil. OP should have posted with an alt.
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.02 19:17:00 - [274] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Razzor Death Well its how the rest of us deal with it you moron and if your alliance can't then its back to highsec with you princess. But you are not dealing with anything are you? you are just supporting a failed mechanic that has no counter tactic that we as players can use to defeat Cloaky Griefers, Perma Cloakies whatever name you think it's important to call it. Grow up, man up and lose your unfair advantage to spoil the game by griefing. CCP Please even the balance and give us the skillsets to detect long term Cloaky griefers earning huge iskies by stealth. (Even if it takes us huge ammounts of effort and training.) We have real money to spend in RL and these griefers make it impossible to enjoy our gametime freely. Raj. we deal with it and we deal it everyday you ***ing tool like most alliance. please continue asking CCP to change the game to stop your alliance from being terrible. I look forward to all the new cloakers your going to find from this thread. CCP did fix it for you btw, they gave you highsec. Go there. -------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v*
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.02 19:22:00 - [275] Originally by: Kassar Temuja Ladies and Gentlemen: The OP will not be posting further on this or any other topic. The opinions expressed by the OP do not reflect the policy positions of Fatal Ascension. Please do not expect any further replies from the OP or from any representative of FA. w/r KT Fatal Ascension Consigliere You know I would normally troll the ** out of something like this, but in all honesty - Good *ing call m8. -------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v*
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 19:25:00 - [276] Originally by: Rhadia It's fairly common knowledge that when these trolls run out of groundless arguments to use they resort to threats in-game. Rather than keeping their fight on the forums they don't have the moral constitution to keep things civil. OP should have posted with an alt. Or posted with an alt and threaten a 30 man blob, aye, aye. Sounds like a plan. Fake edit: Moral constitution...... Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.02 19:27:00 - [277] Originally by: Mag's Originally by: Rhadia It's fairly common knowledge that when these trolls run out of groundless arguments to use they resort to threats in-game. Rather than keeping their fight on the forums they don't have the moral constitution to keep things civil. OP should have posted with an alt. Or posted with an alt and threaten a 30 man blob, aye, aye. Sounds like a plan. Fake edit: Moral constitution...... And as usual, when grasping for straws they take an example of force out of context and cling to it due to lack of actual reasoning. Then Mag's here begins to follow me around like a lost puppy looking for any chance he can to try and troll me.
King Gore The Church of Sentcha	Posted - 2010.09.02 19:32:00 - [278] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Destruct0 I think we should all bring 1 cloaky ship to the op's home system. Who's with me? :P We need to create an alt corp for this purpose. Everytime someone creates a thread on this, boom 50 AFK stealthbombers in his home system! Supported
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 19:33:00 - [279] Originally by: Rhadia Originally by: Mag's Originally by: Rhadia It's fairly common knowledge that when these trolls run out of groundless arguments to use they resort to threats in-game. Rather than keeping their fight on the forums they don't have the moral constitution to keep things civil. OP should have posted with an alt. Or posted with an alt and threaten a 30 man blob, aye, aye. Sounds like a plan. Fake edit: Moral constitution...... And as usual, when grasping for straws they take an example of force out of context and cling to it due to lack of actual reasoning. Then Mag's here begins to follow me around like a lost puppy looking for any chance he can to try and troll me. Time to take a break dude, your moral constitution is playing tricks with your mind. Although feeling sorry for yourself is par for the course. Oh and using that logic of yours.... Me posting in a thread before you, does that mean you're following me? Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.02 19:40:00 - [280] Originally by: Mag's Time to take a break dude, your moral constitution is playing tricks with your mind. Although feeling sorry for yourself is par for the course. Oh and using that logic of yours.... Me posting in a thread before you, does that mean you're following me? No, but you've pretty much singled me out in every thread you and I have both posted in since the silly cloaking thread. I know my ego permits me to be pretty damn insulting when I'm in a heated discussion, but you seem to have something you want to prove- and I'm sorry, but I really just don't care. I've never been here to try and beat anyone into submission for my own amusement, which seems far to common in these threads among others. Suggestion: Stop trolling me, or looking for a fight. It's derailing these threads, (which I'm sure you could care less about- I'm fairly certain it's your intention) and it's not much of a discussion. To be honest I don't care enough about you to keep arguing bull****, and I really don't see why you care enough about me to hold a grudge.

Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 19:50:00 - [281] Originally by: Rhadia No, but you've pretty much singled me out in every thread you and I have both posted in since the silly cloaking thread. I know my ego permits me to be pretty damn insulting when I'm in a heated discussion, but you seem to have something you want to prove- and I'm sorry, but I really just don't care. I've never been here to try and beat anyone into submission for my own amusement, which seems far to common in these threads among others. Suggestion: Stop trolling me, or looking for a fight. It's derailing these threads, (which I'm sure you could care less about- I'm fairly certain it's your intention) and it's not much of a discussion. To be honest I don't care enough about you to keep arguing bull**, and I really don't see why you care enough about me to hold a grudge. This thread is already derailed due to the OP getting nerfed by his Alliance heads. Can't believe you missed that. You're just too easy man and I quote you when I see you. I think this is the second thread I've quoted you in after that first cloak one. Although I've not been keeping count, unlike you it seems. But you are entertaining, thanks for that. One question though, are you following me? That would be freaky. Originally by:** Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.02 20:04:00 - [282] Originally by: Mag's This thread is already derailed due to the OP getting nerfed by his Alliance heads. Can't believe you missed that. You're just too easy man and I quote you when I see you. I think this is the second thread I've quoted you in after that first cloak one. Although I've not been keeping count, unlike you it seems. But you are entertaining, thanks for that. One question though, are you following me? That would be freaky. Quote: It's fairly common knowledge that when these trolls run out of groundless arguments to use they resort to threats in-game. Rather than keeping their fight on the forums they don't have the moral constitution to keep things civil. OP should have posted with an alt. So busy thinking of how to troll me that you didn't even bother understanding the post you trolled. His alliance heads probably silenced him because of the angsty stealth bomber pilots that are probably about to head over to camp them in the next day or so, which is what I was getting at in my post. Perhaps I seem easy to you because it's obvious that I try to put some thought into what I post, and the threads I read on this forum- which seems to **** you off for whatever reason. You realize these forums are actually designed to be constructive right? That we're supposed to collaborate and help people improve ideas to be presented in the assembly hall? This is the beta forum, where people try to build on something they've thought of. This is supposed to be a creative environment, but between trolls/carebears coming here to whine, and trolls/pirates like you coming here with your carebear tear-gathering cups... The actual purpose of the forum is lost to all but a select few people here, it seems, while the majority of threads are lost in the wake of personal battles like this one here. I hope you can realize how counter-productive that is. Here we have a gaming company, CCP, who is actually trying to include their player-base in the creative process of their game and all you guys can think of is carebear tears and your Internet Spaceship Epeen. Hopefully you can try to understand what I'm saying here rather than looking for more reasons to hate me and everyone else you think are less than you.
Etrias Jhozah Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2010.09.02 20:05:00 - [283] In case you guys missed it, this thread is over in a most awesome way. Can't you guys go bowling or something and settle your issues over three frames and cheap beer?
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 20:18:00 - [284] Originally by: Rhadia Awesome sauce. That last post is exactly why I quote you. Plus you are an alt and open to ridicule. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.02 20:29:00 - [285] So you quote me because my quotes are awesome sauce? I guess I could take your post positively and think there's some oddly twisted respect for me somewhere in the mind of Mag's. Otherwise I'll just assume you're using normal playground-bully tactics and assume you're simply going to insult me regardless of what I say. Problem is when I say something, I say it regardless of how I expect you to respond- That post is for anyone to read, as there's a lot of people here who need to realize the nature of this forum and stop using it for personal ego stimulation. Also, I'm sure it's obvious why I post with an alt. While I might not be personally threatened by the idea of butthurt forum trolls trying to seek vengeance against me for having the gall to argue against such superior beings, I would really prefer not putting my friends through that sort of bull****. That's all I have to say about the matter. I've spoken to you fairly about our disagreements and have given you the chance to speak with me on a normal grounds, but it seems you're still hellbent on harassing me. Oh well.
gsdlfkjasdlfjsadf	Posted - 2010.09.02 21:28:00 - [286] This thread obviously went off the rails, but I think only a very minor change to cloaking would be necessary to solve the OP's problem. Simply make the cloaking module turn off automatically after 2 hours. The problem isn't cloaking, or black ops or any of that. The problem is how easy it is to hot drop the enemy once or twice to get them afraid of you, then go off to work for the next 9 hours. All you have to do is hot drop 1 target every few days and you have forced the enemy to either abandon the system, possibly dropping its indexes, or waste their pvp muscle fielding a strong enough defense/bait/counter-drop fleet for hours on end, while you aren't even at the keyboard! It is just too effective against sov-holders trying to make use of a system with exploration or mining. I don't want to nerf normal use of cloaking for black ops and intel gathering, I just don't want it to be SO EASY to leave a character cloaked up 23/7. I often want to sit on the system map probing for over an hour, so a 1 hour timer would be too short. Two hours though, seems reasonable to me. To respond to the main counter-arguments: 1) Bait and kill the hot-dropper. Easier said than done. First, there is a 90% chance he is AFK and your fleet will be wasting it's time. People will get bored and leave the fleet. Second, if the hotdropper is experienced he will smell a trap. More people in system than usual. Ratter doing sub-par DPS. In the cases Raj is talking about, the enemy (new anti-NC alliance called Northen Coalition) has spies in Fatal Ascension so they can easily tell if their is a counter fleet up. This isn't just some random guy cloaking, this is an organized long-term griefing tactic organized by one bully alliance against another weaker one. Third, even if they do take the bait, the counter-op may fail or cause only minor damage and they will go right back to cloaky camping. Remember, they are willing to pay a professional greifer 100M per day to sit and camp cloaked, so losing a few ships isn't going to deter them. 2) Leave the system. Yes, this is the most reasonable thing to do. It works for the individual player, but it doesn't solve the basic imbalance of 1 character being able to shut down activity in a system with minimal effort. Remember, the point of 0.0 sov holders is to defend specific systems. 3) Remove local/make 0.0 like wormholes. I think this misses the fact that 0.0 alliance headquarter systems are not like wormholes. Wormholes see less through traffic and have fewer people in them. The fact that you have to go through a randomly appearing wormhole to get to them by itself provides a large measure of defense. A wormhole corp almost certainly does not have the kind of enemies a 0.0 alliance has. If they did, they would quickly decide to leave their wormhole and move to another. They are capable of doing this, 0.0 alliances are not (they need sovereignty index, they have taken/been given specific systems to upgrade and defend). Also I think wormholes are intended to be more dangerous than 0.0. The game is set up so that 0.0 alliances can provide a high degree of security for blues in their main systems (jump bridges, cyno jammers, perma gate camps). People have seized on cloaky camping and black ops bridges as one of the few effective ways around this security. 4) If he is AFK he is no threat. Well this is true but there is no way to know when he is AFK and when he is not. As I said above he just has to do a couple black ops drops now and then to become known as a hot-dropper. From then on most people will just avoid any systems he is in.
gsdlfkjasdlfjsadf	Posted - 2010.09.02 21:32:00 - [287] 5) Go about your business, but keep an eye out for combat probes on the directional scanner. Yes this SHOULD be an effective counter, except for one little oversight by CCP. There is no way to filter all the other crap out of the scan results and just look for probes. This tactic works fine in wormholes and many less populated systems, but in an alliance headquarter system with a bazillion pos modules on scan it would take all of your attention to check for scan probes every 5 seconds. No matter what you do you have to scroll down past all the A-B stuff. However, even if this was fixed, forcing people to click "scan" every 5 seconds while trying to enjoy their EVE experience is just as good an ourcome for the griefer as getting a kill or shutting down a system. Most people would still just avoid the system, giving the cloaker the victory. I can understand why it would be upsetting to talk about a nerf to black ops. But really guys, putting a 2 hour timer on cloaking is not a nerf! It is just a minor change that will make a certain method of griefing more difficult. It probably should have been part of cloaking module operation to begin with. It will have zero impact on anyone actively playing the game, all it does is force cloakers to be at the keyboard once per 2 hours. Is that really such a big deal? Is there any legitimate reason to stay afk cloaked in a system for over 2 hours BESIDES pure griefing tactics?
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.02 21:40:00 - [288] so I wait 1h55minutes .... finally someone gets the balls to undock. he warps to a belt, I follow and slowly approach him to get tackle. after 5minutes i am close, my cloak goes off and he warps. yes your arbitrary 2h delay didnt nerf the cloaked hunter at all. How about you just fit for combat in highly hostile space instead of trying to nerf others?
gsdlfkjasdlfjsadf	Posted - 2010.09.02 21:52:00 - [289] Originally by: darius mclever so I wait 1h55minutes .... finally someone gets the balls to undock. he warps to a belt, I follow and slowly approach him to get tackle. after 5minutes i am close, my cloak goes off and he warps. yes your arbitrary 2h delay didnt nerf the cloaked hunter at all. How about you just fit for combat in highly hostile space instead of trying to nerf others? No problem, you just decloak and re-cloak before warping to the target. Fitting for combat won't save you against these guys, and why would you bother when you can just leave the system? The problem isn't them killing you, the problem is them shutting down a system with minimal effort.
Etrias Jhozah Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2010.09.02 22:35:00 - [290] Originally by: gsdlfkjasdlfjsadf Edited by: gsdlfkjasdlfjsadf on 02/09/2010 22:09:23No problem, you just decloak and re-cloak before warping to the target. If this change went live, what you should really do is "restart" your cloak every hour or so so that wouldn't happen. Fitting for combat won't save you against these guys, and why would you bother when you can just leave the system? The problem isn't them killing you, the problem is them shutting down a system with minimal effort. This isn't an issue with the usual gankers vs. ratters pvp, it is more about sov warfare. Nobody would sit cloaked in a system for 5+ days straight just to get some kills. They are using this tactic to weaken and frustrate the target alliance, often before a major attack. There's nothing wrong with the tactic in principle, it just seems too easy at present because the cloaker can be AFK for the majority of the time. Yeah...I see why people lose their patience quickly. So you hop on this thread which is essentially dead because the OP got WTFBBQPWND by someone else in the same alliance and you devise some lame answer to a non-problem. The likelihood of you being an alt of the OP just went up about 1000%. Shutting down a system? If a single cloaked ship shuts you down, you never had it in the first place. Pain in the ass, maybe, but if you're so spooked by one cloaked ship, you're doin' it wrong. I know internet spaceships are serious business and all, but carebear space is back thataway if you wanted to get your ISK for free.

Jack Gilligan Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.02 23:17:00 - [291] Originally by: gsdlfkjasdlfjsadf Edited by: gsdlfkjasdlfjsadf on 02/09/2010 22:09:23 Originally by: darius mclever so I wait 1h55minutes .... finally someone gets the balls to undock. he warps to a belt, I follow and slowly approach him to get tackle. after 5minutes i am close, my cloak goes off and he warps. yes your arbitrary 2h delay didnt nerf the cloaked hunter at all. How about you just fit for combat in highly hostile space instead of trying to nerf others? No problem, you just decloak and re-cloak before warping to the target. If this change went live, what you should really do is "restart" your cloak every hour or so so that wouldn't happen. Fitting for combat won't save you against these guys, and why would you bother when you can just leave the system? The problem isn't them killing you, the problem is them shutting down a system with minimal effort. This isn't an issue with the usual gankers vs. ratters pvp, it is more about sov warfare. Nobody would sit cloaked in a system for 5+ days straight just to get some kills. They are using this tactic to weaken and frustrate the target alliance, often before a major attack. There's nothing wrong with the tactic in principle, it just seems too easy at present because the cloaker can be AFK for the majority of the time. I like your idea. It's very simple, and should be fairly easy to implement. Just give the cloak module an extremely long cycle time, like your suggested 2 hrs. Like I said, I have no problem at all with cloaky ***gotry in a system, it's part of the game, hell I run cloak gangs myself. But the person should be forced to be at the keyboard to do it, just like you should have to be at keyboard to do anything in a MMO, else you are wasting server resources that should be there for those who ARE at keyboard.
VIncent Vance Gallente THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.09.02 23:20:00 - [292] Please be advised the OPs views do not reflect the views of the vast majority of PB residents. Seriously, this is just douchebaggery
gsdlfkjasdlfjsadf	Posted - 2010.09.02 23:27:00 - [293] Originally by: Etrias Jhozah Originally by: gsdlfkjasdlfjsadf Edited by: gsdlfkjasdlfjsadf on 02/09/2010 22:09:23No problem, you just decloak and re-cloak before warping to the target. If this change went live, what you should really do is "restart" your cloak every hour or so so that wouldn't happen. Fitting for combat won't save you against these guys, and why would you bother when you can just leave the system? The problem isn't them killing you, the problem is them shutting down a system with minimal effort. This isn't an issue with the usual gankers vs. ratters pvp, it is more about sov warfare. Nobody would sit cloaked in a system for 5+ days straight just to get some kills. They are using this tactic to weaken and frustrate the target alliance, often before a major attack. There's nothing wrong with the tactic in principle, it just seems too easy at present because the cloaker can be AFK for the majority of the time. Yeah...I see why people lose their patience quickly. So you hop on this thread which is essentially dead because the OP got WTFBBQPWND by someone else in the same alliance and you devise some lame answer to a non-problem. The likelihood of you being an alt of the OP just went up about 1000%. Shutting down a system? If a single cloaked ship shuts you down, you never had it in the first place. Pain in the ass, maybe, but if you're so spooked by one cloaked ship, you're doin' it wrong. I know internet spaceships are serious business and all, but carebear space is back thataway if you wanted to get your ISK for free. Easy to have that attitude until your main system has been cloaky camped for literally weeks straight. Sure its a non-problem for most players. Most players don't have bully alliances dedicated to annoying the ** out of them. Its ridiculous to defend such a practice when the change required would be extremely minor. Stop with the ad hominem and think about the actual arguments I am giving. The change I am asking for is extremely minor and I don' see how it would hurt anyone except griefers. Can you give a rational reason against it? How would this change hurt you? Lots of ppl on this thread also seem to think there are two kinds of players in EVE, "carebears" and "pvpers". Since me, the OP, and all the other afk cloak whiners are asking for a tiny change that would help "carebearing", I must be a carebear, and since all non-pvp activity should be restricted to Empire space only, I should head to empire. Can you stop for a second and think about how **ed this dichotomy is? Sorry, its not how the game is designed. CCP put "carebearing" in 0.0, so blame them. Most 0.0 players do plenty of "carebearing" and plenty of pvp. As I understand it, ratting was originally put in as a mechanic for pvp combat characters to earn ISK. Everyone needs a source of ISK, and not everyone wants to have an Empire trading alt or missioning alt to earn ISK for their pvp character. Also many 0.0 corps depend on ratting taxes for income. I don't know why so many of you have decided that exploration and mining in 0.0 is to be frowned upon. Makes you wonder who is really desiring the bigger change to the game, me or you?
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.03 00:06:00 - [294] Originally by: gsdlfkjasdlfjsadf Easy to have that attitude until your main system has been cloaky camped for literally weeks straight. Sure its a non-problem for most players. Most players don't have bully alliances dedicated to annoying the **** out of them. Its ridiculous to defend such a practice when the change required would be extremely minor. Stop with the ad hominem and think about the actual arguments I am giving. The change I am asking for is extremely minor and I don' see how it would hurt anyone except griefers. Can you give a rational reason against it? How would this change hurt you? I've noticed that a lot of comments on this thread are written as if there are two kinds of players in EVE, "carebears" and "pvpers". Since me, the OP, and all the other afk cloak whiners are asking for a tiny change that would help "carebearing", I must be a carebear, and since all non-pvp activity should be restricted to Empire space only, I should head to empire. Sorry, that's not how the game is designed. CCP put "carebearing" in 0.0, so blame them. Most 0.0 players do plenty of "carebearing" and plenty of pvp. As I understand it, ratting was originally put in as a mechanic for pvp combat characters to earn ISK. Everyone needs a source of ISK, and not everyone wants to have an Empire trading alt or missioning alt to earn ISK for their pvp character. Also many 0.0 corps depend on ratting taxes for income. I don't know why so many of you have decided that exploration and mining in 0.0 is to be frowned upon. your only problem is you totally abandon pvp thinking when you go to carebearing. and thats your exact problem. you are in hostile space. even if the ticker in the left corner says sov hold by your alliance. it is hostile space. and it is really not hard to carebear and still survive in 0.0 without "please nerf the others for me". but you got to learn ... carebearing in 0.0 works differently than in highsec.
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.03 07:16:00 - [295] Originally by: Rhadia So you quote me because my quotes are awesome sauce? I guess I could take your post positively and think there's some oddly twisted respect for me somewhere in the mind of Mag's. Otherwise I'll just assume you're using normal playground-bully tactics and assume you're simply going to insult me regardless of what I say. Problem is when I say something, I say it regardless of how I expect you to respond- That post is for anyone to read, as there's a lot of people here who need to realize the nature of this forum and stop using it for personal ego stimulation. Also, I'm sure it's obvious why I post with an alt. While I might not be personally threatened by the idea of butthurt forum trolls trying to seek vengeance against me for having the gall to argue against such superior beings, I would really prefer not putting my friends through that sort of bull***. That's all I have to say about the matter. I've spoken to you fairly about our disagreements and have given you the chance to speak with me on a normal grounds, but it seems you're still hellbent on harassing me. Oh well. You have a victim mentality, that's why you post using an alt with terms like 'playground-bully tactics'. It's one of the reasons you hate afk cloaking, that 'they're out to get me' scenario. You even think I'm following you. Eve is harsh, that's why a lot of people play it and I, like many others, consider the forum a part of the game. Sometimes I win the forum PvP battle, sometimes I crash and burn. You calling us trolls and other names is a part of that game too. But while we laugh at it and roll with the punches so to speak, you get emotional and take it personally. I kept a straight face throughout the whole reply. See. Originally by:* Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Neddy Fox Gallente FireStar Inc Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.09.03 07:31:00 - [296] Solution : Undock Anshar and Brutix. If cloaker decloaks : http://firestar-eve.net/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=23204 If cloaker doesn't decloak : he's not locking down the system. WIN. And now I want my 1B.
Marexlovox Gallente BRO SQUAD	Posted - 2010.09.03 07:48:00 - [297] Either a counter to cloak or remove cloaking from the game completely in my opinion.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.03 07:51:00 - [298] Originally by: Mag's You have a victim mentality, that's why you post using an alt with terms like 'playground-bully tactics'. It's one of the reasons you hate afk cloaking, that 'they're out to get me' scenario. You even think I'm following you. Eve is harsh, that's why a lot of people play it and I, like many others, consider the forum a part of the game. Sometimes I win the forum PvP battle, sometimes I crash and burn. You calling us trolls and other names is a part of that game too. But while we laugh at it and roll with the punches so to speak, you get emotional and take it personally. I kept a straight face throughout the whole reply. See. Well, sorry, but this really isn't "part of the game". If you want to know my personal reasons for coming here, it's because I want to get into video game production as a career. Forums like these allow me to explore some of the processes in balancing and the details behind different game mechanics. The simple fact that this forum was introduced as a buffer forum for people to polish their ideas makes it pretty, well... Lame for guys like you to come here and try to do this "forum PVP" as you aptly called it. Now I don't necessarily take any of this all too "personally" in the sense that I could care less if some random dude in internet spaceships doesn't like my opinion. I do, however, find it insulting that out of all the games you could troll on, you choose the ONE game that is trying to actually include it's fanbase on a written level on introducing new mechanics. If you have any respect for the implications that sort of thing has on the industry and how great it could be for all of us, you would find somewhere else to **** with people. To put it in a different context: Lets say I'm studying for college (posting here is essentially me studying game design). Then you come in and start dancing on my psychology books while shouting obscenities at my roommate. Pretty much how I see it. You see it as taking it personally but I'm really just not playing the troll game. Sorry to ruin the fun for you, but you really should be playing it elsewhere. Also, the alt (again) is to protect myself and my companions from the same trolls who so vehemently oppose me here. The only thing I would accomplish by posting with my main is to expose myself to the same harassment I usually argue against (The most obvious threat being the Stealth Bomber pilots who so passionately hate me, here).
Wolfcheck Pack o' Wolves	Posted - 2010.09.03 08:03:00 - [299] Edited by: Wolfcheck on 03/09/2010 08:03:55 EDIT: missed like 4 pages. DOH.
Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.09.03 10:53:00 - [300] Originally by: Neddy Fox Solution : Undock Anshar and Brutix. If cloaker decloaks : http://firestar-eve.net/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=23204 If cloaker doesn't decloak : he's not locking down the system. WIN. And now I want my 1B. Sorry neddy, i already beat you with that by 7 and 5 pages...he still made up excuses to avoid putting up and shutting up at the same time.. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth

Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.03 11:03:00 - [301] Wait for it! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.03 11:06:00 - [302] (>'o')>-(I snipe this the OP is still an Idiot) -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.09.03 12:47:00 - [303] Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 03/09/2010 12:47:13 Ok. Would anyone care to explain how this thread got 11 pages in one day? It's not like the idea is new or original. BTW, I'm against the change of cloaking OP suggested, but that's my personal preference.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.03 12:57:00 - [304] Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 03/09/2010 12:47:13 Ok. Would anyone care to explain how this thread got 11 pages in one day? It's not like the idea is new or original. BTW, I'm against the change of cloaking OP suggested, but that's my personal preference. Because the OP would not shut up, everyone started calling his alliance fail, there soverenty was made public. The OP continued bein an idiot till one of his Directors came on and skull F*cked him publicly. It was pretty funny, it's on page 8. -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Darth Annihilator	Posted - 2010.09.03 13:35:00 - [305] Edited by: Darth Annihilator on 03/09/2010 13:35:41 just skimmed this, obvious more than a few here don't know what a cov-ops hotdrop is so: * get in a cov-ops alt with covert cyno gen, cloak up in enemy system, go to work/bed/on holiday... * scan for ratters/miners whenever you can be bothered, 24 hours is usually enough for at least someone to start ignoring you. * if you find one get close, tackle, light cyno, drop however many black ops you need (x2 for safety) on his ass, gank him and jump out/cloak up again. eg. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=7456192 not many players will rat/mine in a system after a couple of those (unless there's a dozen or more active allies in system, in which case just choose another system.) so you can cripple a system even when you're afk (evil chuckle) it's a no lose - if there's more reds than you can handle you just stay cloaked, or get a bigger gank squad. it's eve remember - if you end up in a fair fight something's gone wrong.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.03 13:55:00 - [306] no mwd no neut no ecm drones yes he deserved to die. he could have survived with being a bit smarter.
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.03 14:47:00 - [307] Originally by: Rhadia Well, sorry, but this really isn't "part of the game". Followed by personal stuff. Sorry, but it really is. As far as the rest of that post is concerned, meh. Don't take this place too seriously or personally. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
wiersma Caldari Exo corporation	Posted - 2010.09.03 17:20:00 - [308] Why, Because OP cant catch a cloacked ship ? cloaking is fine as it is. griefers use any game mechanics at their disposal. for example. canflipping. and the biggest of all Hulkageddon. ================================================ Mining is the extraction of valuable minerals or other geological materials from SPACE... :-P
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.03 20:18:00 - [309] Originally by: Mag's Originally by: Rhadia Well, sorry, but this really isn't "part of the game". Followed by personal stuff. Sorry, but it really is. As far as the rest of that post is concerned, meh. Don't take this place too seriously or personally. Not that I expect a response but I would really love to see a moderator tell you otherwise. Though I doubt the existence of them.
Xorv	Posted - 2010.09.03 21:44:00 - [310] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Come on CCP, surely you can admit that almost everyone is sick and tired of being locked down by some griefer in a system when in this game there are many ways available to give us skillsets that can make the balance a little more even. you mean "almost everyone" who lives in Nullsec but wants it to be like High Sec, only safer. Here's my alternate fixes: * Remove Local Chat from Nullsec. * Add more gates into Nullsec, less choke points. * Tripple the range on Black Ops Cyno Jumps.

Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.03 21:47:00 - [311] Originally by: Xorv Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Come on CCP, surely you can admit that almost everyone is sick and tired of being locked down by some griefer in a system when in this game there are many ways available to give us skillsets that can make the balance a little more even. you mean "almost everyone" who lives in Nullsec but wants it to be like High Sec, only safer. Here's my alternate fixes: * Remove Local Chat from Nullsec. * Add more gates into Nullsec, less choke points. * Tripple the range on Black Ops Cyno Jumps. While you're at it, why don't you ask for every field command ship in the game to also be able to use CovOps Cloaks, field fighters, and give them the ability to use CovOps Jump Bridges without using fuel locking onto a cyno. Also, they can kill people in Empire without getting concorded. Sorry, but there's a lot of people who want to see Local removed, but idiots like you are going to be the ones keeping it from happening.
Mal Lokrano Gallente The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.05 06:40:00 - [312] It's threads like this that make me want to warp up the ol' Stealth Bomber for a special trip to OP's space. ____________________________________________ When going to a party with wine, women, and song. Always ascertain the vintage of the first two. Don't bug me ingame about diplomats, I don't know wh
w0rmy Destructive Influence	Posted - 2010.09.05 07:02:00 - [313] I see dumb people! Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Torothanax	Posted - 2010.09.05 11:14:00 - [314] Edited by: Torothanax on 05/09/2010 11:15:30 Originally by: Darth Annihilator Edited by: Darth Annihilator on 03/09/2010 13:35:41 just skimmed this, obvious more than a few here don't know what a cov-ops hotdrop is so: * get in a cov-ops alt with covert cyno gen, cloak up in enemy system, go to work/bed/on holiday... * scan for ratters/miners whenever you can be bothered, 24 hours is usually enough for at least someone to start ignoring you. * if you find one get close, tackle, light cyno, drop however many black ops you need (x2 for safety) on his ass, gank him and jump out/cloak up again. eg. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=7456192 not many players will rat/mine in a system after a couple of those (unless there's a dozen or more active allies in system, in which case just choose another system.) so you can cripple a system even when you're afk (evil chuckle) it's a no lose - if there's more reds than you can handle you just stay cloaked, or get a bigger gank squad. it's eve remember - if you end up in a fair fight something's gone wrong. Originally by: darius mclever no mwd no neut no ecm drones yes he deserved to die. he could have survived with being a bit smarter. So these are required pvp fittings again? I though we were moving away from cookie cutter setups. This isn't eve 2004. It was 7 on one, he got hotdropped. His setup didn't matter. Yup, the invincibility provided by cloaking didn't help set that gank up at all. No sir. He was perfectly safe ignoring that afk cloaker.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.05 11:43:00 - [315] Originally by: Torothanax Edited by: Torothanax on 05/09/2010 11:15:30 Originally by: Darth Annihilator Edited by: Darth Annihilator on 03/09/2010 13:35:41 just skimmed this, obvious more than a few here don't know what a cov-ops hotdrop is so: * get in a cov-ops alt with covert cyno gen, cloak up in enemy system, go to work/bed/on holiday... * scan for ratters/miners whenever you can be bothered, 24 hours is usually enough for at least someone to start ignoring you. * if you find one get close, tackle, light cyno, drop however many black ops you need (x2 for safety) on his ass, gank him and jump out/cloak up again. eg. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=7456192 not many players will rat/mine in a system after a couple of those (unless there's a dozen or more active allies in system, in which case just choose another system.) so you can cripple a system even when you're afk (evil chuckle) it's a no lose - if there's more reds than you can handle you just stay cloaked, or get a bigger gank squad. it's eve remember - if you end up in a fair fight something's gone wrong. Originally by: darius mclever no mwd no neut no ecm drones yes he deserved to die. he could have survived with being a bit smarter. So these are required pvp fittings again? I though we were moving away from cookie cutter setups. This isn't eve 2004. It was 7 on one, he got hotdropped. His setup didn't matter. Yup, the invincibility provided by cloaking didn't help set that gank up at all. No sir. He was perfectly safe ignoring that afk cloaker. you are really that stupid ... the cyno ship isnt exactly fast ... so he could have easily burned out of point range and get a chance to get out. if he neuted it while burning away, he might have gotten rid of the point even before being 20-24k away. same if he had put some ec-300s on the pilgrim. using those he might have gotten out, with his fit he is dead meat. but thank you for your valuable contribution!
Torothanax	Posted - 2010.09.05 12:14:00 - [316] Originally by: darius mclever you are really that stupid ... the cyno ship isnt exactly fast ... so he could have easily burned out of point range and get a chance to get out. if he neuted it while burning away, he might have gotten rid of the point even before being 20-24k away. same if he had put some ec-300s on the pilgrim. using those he might have gotten out, with his fit he is dead meat. but thank you for your valuable contribution! Personal attacks already? You really did miss me didn't you? Aw, that's sweet. It's not possible for a recon to fit a scramber is it? Even a large neut takes an apreciable amount of time to drain a recon's cap; and it's just absolutely not possible to time a cap injector to inject right before the scram cycles, is it? We all know tacklers never ever fit a web right? Yeah sure ecm drones would have given him a chance to jam the tackler, but it's a small one. If a hot drop is done right, the target has almost no time to react. He could have fit multi spec ecm as well for a "chance". Are you really going to base your arguement on ecm? That's the trump card that makes afk cloaking useless? How much does he have to gimp his set for a chance to survive a losing battle? The problem wasn't his set up. Sure it was pure pve, but a pvp set up wouldn't have saved him. The problem is there is no viable counter to cloaks. Complete safety. This enables anyone to post a threat in any system they want 23/7, with no effort. Most of the trolls in this thread are left overs from the nano crowd behind a new cause.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.09.05 14:08:00 - [317] loool this crap thread got 11 pages within 3 days??? LMAO @OP: cloaks are fine, afk cloakers are fine, nothing to fix. I understand, failpets dont like afk cloakers since they HAVE only a limited number of solar systems but... its the way the game is played. if you dont like it go back to empire.
Mr Digs Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.06 13:20:00 - [318] epic thread is epic. EVE time codes 60 Days EvE Game Time
Torothanax	Posted - 2010.09.07 09:11:00 - [319] I like epic stuff
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.07 09:31:00 - [320] Originally by: Robert Caldera @OP: cloaks are fine, afk cloakers are fine, nothing to fix. That's why there's a million threads about this subject in the forum. Clearly everything is fine. ...in bed.

0ne Gallente	Posted - 2010.09.07 10:03:00 - [321] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Originally by: Robert Caldera @OP: cloaks are fine, afk cloakers are fine, nothing to fix. That's why there's a million threads about this subject in the forum. Clearly everything is fine. There are millions of threads about ninja salvaging too. Clearl....oh wait
Nuts Nougat Perkone	Posted - 2010.09.07 10:14:00 - [322] Originally by: 0ne Originally by: Allestin Villimar Originally by: Robert Caldera @OP: cloaks are fine, afk cloakers are fine, nothing to fix. That's why there's a million threads about this subject in the forum. Clearly everything is fine. There are millions of threads about ninja salvaging too. Clearl....oh wait Didn't want to bump these threads till now but ****ing this people. Give it a break already. ---
gsdlfkjasdlfjsadf	Posted - 2010.09.07 15:16:00 - [323] Originally by: Robert Caldera loool this crap thread got 11 pages within 3 days??? LMAO @OP: cloaks are fine, afk cloakers are fine, nothing to fix. I understand, failpets dont like afk cloakers since they HAVE only a limited number of solar systems but... its the way the game is played. if you dont like it go back to empire. It isn't about weak alliances with limited systems, the OP's alliance has plenty of non-camped system. It is a simple MMO gaming principle that no AFK technique should be very effective and without risk. This one is very effective at shutting down efficient use of an entire system, and carries almost no risk (meaning there is almost zero chance of getting decloaked and killed while AFK). If CCP chooses not to act I think it will only be because there probably isn't all that much AFK cloaky camping going on in the game because the tactic requires a player to tie up an entire account for days, and requires a decent blackops squad. You're right too that it probably isn't very effective at all against alliances with lots of systems. But just because it is a small problem doesn't mean it is balanced. It is crippling against certain kinds of operations, such as trying to maintain an industry 5 system.
Creepy CousinRoger	Posted - 2010.09.07 15:50:00 - [324] Originally by: gsdlfkjasdlfjsadf Originally by: Robert Caldera loool this crap thread got 11 pages within 3 days??? LMAO @OP: cloaks are fine, afk cloakers are fine, nothing to fix. I understand, failpets dont like afk cloakers since they HAVE only a limited number of solar systems but... its the way the game is played. if you dont like it go back to empire. It isn't about weak alliances with limited systems, the OP's alliance has plenty of non-camped system. It is a simple MMO gaming principle that no AFK technique should be very effective and without risk. This one is very effective at shutting down efficient use of an entire system, and carries almost no risk (meaning there is almost zero chance of getting decloaked and killed while AFK). If CCP chooses not to act I think it will only be because there probably isn't all that much AFK cloaky camping going on in the game because the tactic requires a player to tie up an entire account for days, and requires a decent blackops squad. You're right too that it probably isn't very effective at all against alliances with lots of systems. But just because it is a small problem doesn't mean it is balanced. It is crippling against certain kinds of operations, such as trying to maintain an industry 5 system. Make it a little for obvious you are an alt of the OP why don't ya The real problem isn't 'AFK' cloakers, it's the people who are too lazy to pay attention all the time. Admit it.
Nuts Nougat Perkone	Posted - 2010.09.07 16:08:00 - [325] Remove local. Problem gone. ---
Tigobitty Caldari Australian Mining and industry Corp Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.09.07 19:24:00 - [326] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 02/09/2010 13:11:59 a red-nosed clown ship is entirely irrelevant. oh what I would give to have a Cloaky Red-Nosed Clown Ship. -------------------- "A good skirmish is one you can live to fly away from... a Great skirmish is on where you can still use your ship afterwards.."
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.09.07 21:10:00 - [327] a 2 hour timer is waaay to easy to circumvent with a keyboard macro/timer. Cloak harassment should be a valid tactic, but AFK'ing 95% of the time is BS. One way this could be defended is to have a pos module (like a system scanning array), that can decloak everything system-wide. You can make it have certain requirements so you cant have one at any pos, and have a high refresh time so it could be cycled every 15-mins, 1 hr, etc... That way an alliance can defend certain systems from AFK cloaking, but not active at the keyboard cloaking..
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.07 21:11:00 - [328] Originally by: Rastigan a 2 hour timer is waaay to easy to circumvent with a keyboard macro/timer. Cloak harassment should be a valid tactic, but AFK'ing 95% of the time is BS. One way this could be defended is to have a pos module (like a system scanning array), that can decloak everything system-wide. You can make it have certain requirements so you cant have one at any pos, and have a high refresh time so it could be cycled every 15-mins, 1 hr, etc... That way an alliance can defend certain systems from AFK cloaking, but not active at the keyboard cloaking.. sov holder definitely need more advantages.
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.07 21:29:00 - [329] I once agreed with the OP, even started a thread about it just like this one. But there will be no change to cloaking mechanics just because you are afraid of one silent red in system. Sorry, but its just not gonna happen. My first corp was given a station just 3 jumps from the last Red Alliance system way back in the times when they were almost destroyed. We were 0.0 noobs and thought we could mine and rat forever. RA kept a cloaky in system 23/7, and anytime we organized any activity a fleet would form up, travel the 3 jumps to us and kill us. It was quite annoying and 'undefeatable'. CCP urged us to use 'in game mechanics' to solve our problem. We emo-raged and argued but to no avail. Now, years later, I realize that they were correct. Here's what you do: - Use the mining op as bait and kill the incomming attackers. Beat them well and often and they stop comming. - Kill the Alliance the cloaky belongs to. - Negoatiate with Terrorists and make a deal with the red cloaky Alliance. - Go back to WoW. Any of the above will permanently solve your cloaky problem. Man up and use one.
Gibbo3771	Posted - 2010.09.07 23:18:00 - [330] Edited by: Gibbo3771 on 07/09/2010 23:20:02 AFK Cloaker in system?..... Move 1 system along, problem solved. Stupid **** Whats so hard about leaving your little carebear hub, I would hate to see you people when the sun comes through the window

Torothanax	Posted - 2010.09.09 18:37:00 - [331] Originally by: Princess Jodi I once agreed with the OP, even started a thread about it just like this one. But there will be no change to cloaking mechanics just because you are afraid of one silent red in system. Sorry, but its just not gonna happen. My first corp was given a station just 3 jumps from the last Red Alliance system way back in the times when they were almost destroyed. We were 0.0 noobs and thought we could mine and rat forever. RA kept a cloaky in system 23/7, and anytime we organized any activity a fleet would form up, travel the 3 jumps to us and kill us. It was quite annoying and 'undefeatable'. CCP urged us to use 'in game mechanics' to solve our problem. We emo-raged and argued but to no avail. Now, years later, I realize that they were correct. Here's what you do: - Use the mining op as bait and kill the incomming attackers. Beat them well and often and they stop comming. - Kill the Alliance the cloaky belongs to. - Negoatiate with Terrorists and make a deal with the red cloaky Alliance. - Go back to WoW. Any of the above will permanently solve your cloaky problem. Man up and use one. So what you're saying is you caved in and quit, then went and joined a bigger alliance? So since blob helps counter cheap tactic, it's ok to use said cheap tactic? Why should someone's scout alt be completely safe 23/7, with no work required? I've no problem if someone wants to put in work and time and to actively scout someone. Why should it be a passive, effortless, for free ability? If you really want a spy, make an alt and get them into the organization you want to keep an eye on. Completely safe as well, but at least it takes effort, and has a counter.
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.09 19:06:00 - [332] Originally by: 0ne There are millions of threads about ninja salvaging too. Clearl....oh wait As soon as CCP comes out and says they intended for cloakers to afk for hours in complete safety that will be a viable point. ...in bed.
Quixis	Posted - 2010.09.09 19:32:00 - [333] Originally by: Allestin Villimar That's why there's a million threads about this subject in the forum. Clearly everything is fine. As soon as CCP comes out and says they didn't intend for cloakers to afk for hours in complete safety that will be a viable point.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.09 19:48:00 - [334] way to reveal your alts? lol
Mark Hadden Amarr Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.09.09 21:49:00 - [335] Originally by: Torothanax Why should someone's scout alt be completely safe 23/7, with no work required? because CCP gave him cloak. Originally by: Torothanax Why should it be a passive, effortless, for free ability? its like local... someone comes into your system and you can instantly read that in local and go safe. Completely passive, effortless and for free.
Kivra14	Posted - 2010.09.09 22:22:00 - [336] Does everyone not get why their so bad? these cloakes are overpowered with NO counter, and everything has to have a counter. These things are also very easy to use to lock down a system. For those of you who don't support nerfing cloaks, let me know your home system and watch as i lock it down in a cloaky ship. You don't know what i'm in or where i am. I could even be ready to drop in a cap fleet to take the system.
Torothanax	Posted - 2010.09.10 02:01:00 - [337] Edited by: Torothanax on 10/09/2010 02:04:47 Originally by: Torothanax Why should someone's scout alt be completely safe 23/7, with no work required? Originally by: Mark Hadden because CCP gave him cloak. Originally by: Torothanax Why should it be a passive, effortless, for free ability? Originally by: Mark Hadden its like local... someone comes into your system and you can instantly read that in local and go safe. Completely passive, effortless and for free. Watching local at least takes some effort and attention. Cloakers don't even have to be at the keyboard. I'm sure you were already aware of this and just hoped the rest of us hadn't thought of it. CCP gave out cloaks, they can fix them as well. It'd be fine by me if both cloaks and local went away completely.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.10 02:14:00 - [338] Originally by: Torothanax CCP gave out cloaks, they can fix them as well. It'd be fine by me if both (infinite) cloaks and local went away completely.
Mark Hadden Amarr Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.09.10 07:17:00 - [339] yeah, without cloaks you wont need to afk cloak, you could just logoff and switch your computer off for less electricity waste and such... but with local, you have to stay logged in order to deny the enemy the information of whether you'r afk there or even active...
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.10 08:27:00 - [340] Originally by: Quixis As soon as CCP comes out and says they didn't intend for cloakers to afk for hours in complete safety that will be a viable point. Because CCP has never changed anything after they put into the game. ...in bed.

Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.09.10 08:32:00 - [341] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Because CCP has never changed anything after they put into the game. a good universal argument, fitting all imaginable discussions to throw this in: "because CCP alredy changed things, this one should be changed also"
Torothanax	Posted - 2010.09.10 09:19:00 - [342] Originally by: Robert Caldera Originally by: Allestin Villimar Because CCP has never changed anything after they put into the game. a good universal argument, fitting all imaginable discussions to throw this in: "because CCP alredy changed things, this one should be changed also" How about: When ccp added cloaks, probes were completely useless anyway, and nano ships/gangs were a much bigger threat? Hows that for why cloaks weren't a problem before and why they need to be fixed now?
Quixis	Posted - 2010.09.10 09:31:00 - [343] Originally by: Allestin Villimar As soon as CCP comes out and says they intended for cloakers to afk for hours in complete safety that will be a viable point. Because CCP has never changed anything after they put into the game.
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.10 10:44:00 - [344] Originally by: Robert Caldera a good universal argument, fitting all imaginable discussions to throw this in: "because CCP alredy changed things, this one should be changed also" It's a reasonable argument when a lot of players have issues with something and many of the responses are nothing more than the "it's fine stop whining" opinion and CCP hasn't made a statement about it one way or the other about the topic. While the OP is far from an eloquent poster, it's clearly not fine when so many people have issues with it. Trying to deny system use via afk cloaking has a negative effect on what people do in that system. How easy it is to take out SBs, or whether the people in the system should be on guard or not, is completely irrelevant. You're having a negative effect on them with no risk to yourself, and that's unbalanced. ...in bed.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.09.10 10:56:00 - [345] Originally by: Allestin Villimar How easy it is to take out SBs, or whether the people in the system should be on guard or not, is completely irrelevant. its called balance Originally by: Allestin Villimar You're having a negative effect on them with no risk to yourself, and that's unbalanced. psychological warfare is fine and balanced.
Yarton Killmore	Posted - 2010.09.10 12:33:00 - [346] OK just seen this post.... I fail to see what the problem is? AFK cloaking is a great way to freak out your reds.. if you cant take it move back to empire.... I fail to see how this is any different from the 20 man griefer corp camping in a 2 man mining corp.... Working as intended :D
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.10 16:23:00 - [347] Originally by: Robert Caldera its called balance Missing the point. Originally by: Robert Caldera psychological warfare is fine and balanced. Having an effect on the enemy with no risk to yourself. That's unbalanced. ...in bed.
Xorv	Posted - 2010.09.10 19:24:00 - [348] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Originally by: Robert Caldera its called balance Missing the point. Originally by: Robert Caldera psychological warfare is fine and balanced. Having an effect on the enemy with no risk to yourself. That's unbalanced. Remove Local Chat and they won't have any effect on you until they are neither AFK, cloaked, nor in a position that is anywhere close to being risk free. Generating ISK effects your enemy, since it allows you to by war materials to fight them among other things. So surely given your statements, safe PvE in Nullsec or High Sec with no real risk to yourself is unbalanced.
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.10 20:22:00 - [349] Originally by: Xorv Remove Local Chat and they won't have any effect on you until they are neither AFK, cloaked, nor in a position that is anywhere close to being risk free. Generating ISK effects your enemy, since it allows you to by war materials to fight them among other things. So surely given your statements, safe PvE in Nullsec or High Sec with no real risk to yourself is unbalanced. Declare war on them if you want to stop them in high sec. If they're in a newbie corp they're hardly your enemy, and you can still suicide gank them if you want. And honestly, do you think a stealth bomber actually stops anyone from earning money? The cheap factor in it is that you can't hunt them down no matter your skills or how many people you have. It's 100% safety from a very cheap, easily trained module in every system, and that's bull****. ...in bed.
Dred Control	Posted - 2010.09.10 23:04:00 - [350] Just curious, what additional mechanics would OP like to see? Some kind of probe that detects and/or decloaks cloakers? A ship module that deactivates cloaks out to X km of the ship? (a cool idea I think) A timer on the cloak? A decloaking bubble like the warp disruption bubble?

Mr LaForge	Posted - 2010.09.11 03:18:00 - [351] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Originally by: Robert Caldera psychological warfare is fine and balanced. Having an effect on the enemy with no risk to yourself. That's unbalanced. Tell that to the rest of the world. Psy-ops are perfectly fine.
Skarfase	Posted - 2010.09.11 18:05:00 - [352] Originally by: Mr LaForge Tell that to the rest of the world. Psy-ops are perfectly fine. Yeah, Psy-ops are fine, but it's not okay that such operations can be performed with absolutely zero risk to the attacker.
Mrs Maltaproject	Posted - 2010.09.11 19:26:00 - [353] Dude, get about 5 carriers all of one tank type with cap energy transfer, 1 remote rep of the tank type, get them a few jumps out, get a bait battleship with an UBER tank and a cyno, your black ops problem is taken care of
Hagbard23Celine Evoke. Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.09.13 15:37:00 - [354] There is always a counter but you don't get it. A cloaked ship can do what? Ahhh.... nothing, right? So why you need to counter a ship which can't shoot you? Cloaking ships are paper ships so you can easily shoot them with a proper fit, cloaking ships got a targeting delay so you can warp off if you are aligned should i continiue? btw. nerv blobs with usless pets because against this there isn't a counter
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.13 15:45:00 - [355] Originally by: Hagbard23Celine There is always a counter but you don't get it. A cloaked ship can do what? Ahhh.... nothing, right? So why you need to counter a ship which can't shoot you? Cloaking ships are paper ships so you can easily shoot them with a proper fit, cloaking ships got a targeting delay so you can warp off if you are aligned should i continiue? btw. nerv blobs with usless pets because against this there isn't a counter Point: Neutral/red in system that can't be caught and is having an effect with no risk to themselves. Having an effect with no risk to yourself = unbalanced. Oh, and stealth bombers don't have a targeting delay after decloaking. ...in bed.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.13 15:56:00 - [356] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Point: Neutral/red in system that can't be caught and is having an effect with no risk to themselves. Having an effect with no risk to yourself = unbalanced. the only affect is that it reminds you to not fly around like you would be in highsec. If you need that reminder from a cloaky ship, then you did/do something wrong.
Solid Star	Posted - 2010.09.13 16:58:00 - [357] The solution is simple, get rid of local in nullsec. Then you won't feel gripped by one cloaked and everyone is now on an equal plying field. Nullsec is becoming way too easy to make isk. We might as well just have CCP deposit 100mil a week in each active account.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.09.13 17:02:00 - [358] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Point: Neutral/red in system that can't be caught and is having an effect with no risk to themselves. Having an effect with no risk to yourself = unbalanced. I dont feel its unbalanced. The cloaker takes the risk of getting there and every time he decloaks. Thats a fine balance.
Hagbard23Celine Evoke. Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.09.13 17:46:00 - [359] If he can't get caught he might be cloaked all the time so I guess he can't shoot. If he's going to decloak he can be shoot, seems balanced to me.
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.13 19:50:00 - [360] Originally by: Robert Caldera I dont feel its unbalanced. The cloaker takes the risk of getting there and every time he decloaks. Thats a fine balance. The ships are designed to get past gate camps, but even if they weren't, they can enter before or right after downtime when there is no one camping and stay the entire time until people log in again because they're uncatchable. There's no risk to that. As for decloaking every time you fight, that's what makes them balanced - the ability to choose your fight. Choose poorly, you probably die. Have a bit of skill and you can kill all day. I don't think anyone's recommending anything that would make it so that you can't choose your fight if you actively play. But 0.0 is 0.0, you should never be 100% safe if you aren't docked up, cloaking is no exception to that. Originally by: darius mclever the only affect is that it reminds you to not fly around like you would be in highsec. If you need that reminder from a cloaky ship, then you did/do something wrong. So a neutral shows up and everyone needs to be on their toes. But the guy who's in an entire system full of neutrals doesn't? ...in bed.

Torothanax	Posted - 2010.09.13 23:30:00 - [361] The new "pro-cloaky" crowd is mostly the left overs from the pro-nano crowd. They don't like two way streets.
Earthan Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2010.09.14 06:24:00 - [362] Edited by: Earthan on 14/09/2010 06:29:46 Edited by: Earthan on 14/09/2010 06:29:26 Originally by: Rajheen Orlox OK, here I am to ask CCP why they won't introduce a mechanism, a skillset that players can use to remove nuisance Cloakers who are only there to ruin the gameplay of other players who are trying to enjoy this game that they pay good money for? Come on CCP, surely you can admit that almost everyone is sick and tired of being locked down by some griefer in a system when in this game there are many ways available to give us skillsets that can make the balance a little more even. Cloaking griefers are not players in the whole sense of the word. They are spoiling the game's strategy because in itself afk cloaking is a strategy that cannot be beaten/defeated at all and that is unfair. You have balanced many other things in the game and for every armor or shield or power supply there is a way to defeat or enhance, but when it comes to cloaking and going afk nothing can be done and many players are throwing good money after bad on this game to log in and find yet again gametime wasted day after day by the same old cloaky-griefers. DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS!! PLEASE!!!! Raj. I see many problmes to solve with tshi but maybe introducing very slow scanning (like needing 5-10 minutes to scan it) of a cloaking ship after he has been 30 minutes in sys. He is online , he had tiem to maek 100 of safespots and can keep changing making new ones easily with a very slow scaning, even continue spying just be careful to cahnge spots every now and then. Or auto decloak after 30 minutes-1h , you can cloak again but need a deacloak for 20 seconds. just ideas.
Nahkep Narmelion Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE	Posted - 2010.09.14 06:31:00 - [363] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Originally by: Robert Caldera I dont feel its unbalanced. The cloaker takes the risk of getting there and every time he decloaks. Thats a fine balance. The ships are designed to get past gate camps, but even if they weren't, they can enter before or right after downtime when there is no one camping and stay the entire time until people log in again because they're uncatchable. There's no risk to that. As for decloaking every time you fight, that's what makes them balanced - the ability to choose your fight. Choose poorly, you probably die. Have a bit of skill and you can kill all day. I don't think anyone's recommending anything that would make it so that you can't choose your fight if you actively play. But 0.0 is 0.0, you should never be 100% safe if you aren't docked up, cloaking is no exception to that. There you go again exaggerating. It is not 100% safe. You first have to get into that system. Yes, they are designed to get through a gate camp with greater success than an non-cloaking ship, but they still die...alot. Hell you have a cloaky loss on your KB. What happened there? I thought these were an "I win" ship. And yeah, sitting at a safe is going to be just about as safe as sitting in station...you also can't do much either...especially when you are AFK...like when you are in a station. About the only thing you can do is gather intel on the enemy, but apparently you are fine with that. I really don't see the problem here. Yeah its safe, its also boring hence the afk nature of it. Quote: Originally by: darius mclever the only affect is that it reminds you to not fly around like you would be in highsec. If you need that reminder from a cloaky ship, then you did/do something wrong. So a neutral shows up and everyone needs to be on their toes. But the guy who's in an entire system full of neutrals doesn't? Yeah, once the guy is in system and he decides to go to a safe and cloak...yeah he's pretty damn safe. And you don't need to be on your toes...go dock up. As to your overall view of the game you lack subtlety, IMO. There are two approaches: Direct vs. Indirect. Cloaks are indirect. They are used in psy-ops, gathering intel, and the like. Your response to them has to also be indirect. Instead of warping in on them and shooting them you have to entice them out of their safety zone so you can kill them. The ways to do this have been described ad nauseam. Either you just don't appreciate this aspect of the game or you are lazy.
Earthan Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2010.09.14 06:59:00 - [364] Edited by: Earthan on 14/09/2010 07:00:33 ok only idea that came to me and didnt seem flawed fast is to add a captcha that you have to fill after ~30 minutes of lcoaking , you got 10 minutes for many tries.If you dont you decloak. Its awin win situation, cloakers active can stay cloaked how logn they want , unscannable, but you cant grief afk anymore without putting much effort to it , you need to be by the keyboard active.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.14 07:15:00 - [365] Quote: There you go again exaggerating. It is not 100% safe. You first have to get into that system. Yes, they are designed to get through a gate camp with greater success than an non-cloaking ship, but they still die...alot. Hell you have a cloaky loss on your KB. What happened there? I thought these were an "I win" ship. Go afk watching the gate into that system and the defender has no choice but to wait you out. In order to catch the cloaky they have to be 100% active watching that gate for his attempt to get through until he finally comes back from being AFK to make his move. Combine this with a neutral alt that checks the gate instead (most probably in a cloaky, dramiel, or similarly hard-to-catch ship, OR a worthless ship like a velator) and you have an afk cloaker that has absolutely 0 risk of dying at a gate camp. Quote: And yeah, sitting at a safe is going to be just about as safe as sitting in station... Except- from a safe spot you can use D-Scan, use probes, or warp anywhere in the system without the enemy even knowing you've moved, AND you can do it instantly. The only thing you can do in-station is spin your ship, or try to undock- And even undocking takes a 30 second delay and the black screen of death.
Mark Hadden Amarr Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.09.14 08:20:00 - [366] Originally by: Rhadia Go afk watching the gate into that system and the defender has no choice but to wait you out. In order to catch the cloaky they have to be 100% active watching that gate for his attempt to get through until he finally comes back from being AFK to make his move. Combine this with a neutral alt that checks the gate instead (most probably in a cloaky, dramiel, or similarly hard-to-catch ship, OR a worthless ship like a velator) and you have an afk cloaker that has absolutely 0 risk of dying at a gate camp. Originally by: Rhadia Except- from a safe spot you can use D-Scan, use probes, or warp anywhere in the system without the enemy even knowing you've moved, AND you can do it instantly. The only thing you can do in-station is spin your ship, or try to undock- And even undocking takes a 30 second delay and the black screen of death. So here's how I see it. Is a stealth bomber at risk in space: When cloaked, no. Is a stealth bomber at risk when moving from system to system: Gate camps can be mitigated by simply going afk in the system before them. By using a simple newbie alt the bomber has no risk to himself. Defenders are forced into 100% activity to defend their system. Is a stealth bomber at risk when attacking: Yes, but at far less risk than any other ship. Stealth bombers have the advantage of being light and quick, but damage designed to hurt ships that are far larger and slower than they. Combine this with a long range point (usually overloaded as well, or faction if you're willing to spend the isk) and the stealth bomber can align (just as you all keep suggesting the ratters should) to a celestial outside of enemy tackling range. in few words, a cloaker who is using multiple accouts, spend tons of his time and ISK for sitting, waiting and faction gear is a pain in the ass. Sounds pretty fine to me, he got the trick. Originally by: Rhadia Using these tactics, a stealth bomber has hardly any risk to it at all in PVP and can easily pick and choose his target systems, and target victims with ease- The only prerequisite to this? An easily trained ship, a little bit of pocket isk, and a computer you can afford to keep running with constant internet. eve can be pretty easy, hm??? I admit a cloaker is a problem for a pet corp/alliance which cant simply switch systems and go ratting in a clean one, but, its only your problem of being a pet, not of cloaking mechanics.
Hagbard23Celine Evoke. Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.09.14 08:42:00 - [367] It's funny to see only carebears complaining about cloakers. Guys this is the god damm 0.0 and the risk vs. reward is broken so be glad there is no delayed local atm. If you fit your ship right you wont get a problem against a bomber. Hell I've lived nearly 6 month in old providence while uk, sf and aaa made a hell of terror (with cloakers aswell) in our Systems and guess what, I never lost a Ship to a cloaker or to a nano and you know why? Fitting is the key! Learn how to fit and you will laugh at that stupid bomber who is decloaking next to you so stfu about broken mechanics and learn to play first!
Poastingalt	Posted - 2010.09.14 10:57:00 - [368] Originally by: Tamarant If you know that he's AFK, just keep ratting/mining?
Ophelia Ursus	Posted - 2010.09.14 12:24:00 - [369] Lowsec PvE: everyone else in system is neutral but hey, I'm keeping my eyes open and it's just business as usual Nullsec PvE: 99 blues + 1 neutral in local, OMG OMG OMG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE I WANT MY MOOOOOMMMMMMYYYY People who whine about AFK cloakers are bad and should end themselves. Signature removed.
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.14 16:24:00 - [370] Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion There you go again exaggerating. It is not 100% safe. You first have to get into that system. Yes, they are designed to get through a gate camp with greater success than an non-cloaking ship, but they still die...alot. Hell you have a cloaky loss on your KB. What happened there? I thought these were an "I win" ship. Fly in right before or after downtime. Use an alt in a newb ship to scout. The amount of risk to actually get into a system is minimal. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion And yeah, sitting at a safe is going to be just about as safe as sitting in station...you also can't do much either...especially when you are AFK...like when you are in a station. About the only thing you can do is gather intel on the enemy, but apparently you are fine with that. I really don't see the problem here. Yeah its safe, its also boring hence the afk nature of it. Difference being you are not in a station. You are in space where other people are hunting for you. You have no right to be safe, just like the carebears you're so interested in hunting have no right to be safe if they're not docked up. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion Yeah, once the guy is in system and he decides to go to a safe and cloak...yeah he's pretty damn safe. And you don't need to be on your toes...go dock up. Again, requiring a system with a station where the people in the station have no mobility, no way of checking what's outside the station, or otherwise going about your business as usual. Advanced cloak ships have none of these problems. Just for you to think on: Do you know how many non-cloaky enemy/neutral ships have been in our space in the last two months? Ignoring freshly made characters in noob ships, three. One came out of a wormhole, and went right back in. The other two were dramiels (who still had cloaks fitted they just couldn't warp with them). Out of easily 200+ people, every single other one has been either a recon or stealth bomber. Obviously cloaking ships are perfectly balanced. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion As to your overall view of the game you lack subtlety, IMO. There are two approaches: Direct vs. Indirect. Cloaks are indirect. They are used in psy-ops, gathering intel, and the like. Your response to them has to also be indirect. Instead of warping in on them and shooting them you have to entice them out of their safety zone so you can kill them. Hi, my name is Nahkep, and I want to effect the enemy without any risk to myself. Also anything that changes my crutch playstyle is obviously a no no. You're more of a carebear than the people ratting. You also can't read, since many of the suggestions people make in regards to afk cloaking wouldn't actually effect active cloakers. Nothing about what cloaky ships does requires them to be afk. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion The ways to do this have been described ad nauseam. Either you just don't appreciate this aspect of the game or you are lazy. Every argument I've ever seen for afk ratting has had multiple people counter it. But those counters get ignored, and then 5 posts later a different one of the same 8 people defending afk cloaking pipes up with the initial arguments again. Read through all these threads. It's how every single one of them goes. The counters never get argued. ...in bed.

Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.14 16:47:00 - [371] Originally by: Mark Hadden in few words, a cloaker who is using multiple accouts, spend tons of his time and ISK for sitting, waiting and faction gear is a pain in the ass. Sounds pretty fine to me, he got the trick. Sorry, remind me again how you're spending isk when you're not doing anything? It's not that they are a pain in the ass, but that they are pretty much invulnerable. Faction gear should give you an edge, sure, but in no way should it make the bomber pilot as untouchable that it is. Originally by: Mark Hadden eve can be pretty easy, hm??? I admit a cloaker is a problem for a pet corp/alliance which cant simply switch systems and go ratting in a clean one, but, its only your problem of being a pet, not of cloaking mechanics. So remind me again why a single ship should have the power to make an entire group of people (or a large portion of them) move even one system away? This logic fails to appeal to me. PVP fitting your ratting ship aside, there is no way for a single player to catch a stealth bomber. By the time tacklers arrive you're gone because you're already aligned out. Not even taking hotdropping into account, there is still very little reason why a single cloaking ship should retain such killing ability in such a careless, passive way. CovOps/Recons should be able to **** with people's heads, but it shouldn't be as easy as it is. Due to the limitless nature of cloaks and how long they can be deployed, you and others have found how to abuse them to their fullest extent with the smallest amount of effort, without even having to be at your computer. This is what is broken, and needs to be fixed.
AFK Griefer	Posted - 2010.09.14 16:59:00 - [372]
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.14 17:48:00 - [373] Originally by: AFK Griefer Check it out it is the new AFK cloaker, just not as cool or origional! Find your own Meme bud! -- Alara's Law! As an online discussion on EVE ships grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Dominix approaches 1
Hagbard23Celine Evoke. Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.09.14 17:51:00 - [374] Originally by: Rhadia So remind me again why a single ship should have the power to make an entire group of people (or a large portion of them) move even one system away? This logic fails to appeal to me. PVP fitting your ratting ship aside, there is no way for a single player to catch a stealth bomber. By the time tacklers arrive you're gone because you're already aligned out. Not even taking hotdropping into account, there is still very little reason why a single cloaking ship should retain such killing ability in such a careless, passive way. So what you are saying is nerv titans, nerv moms, nerv carrier, nerv dreads, nerv bs, nerv hacs, nerv everything because you can't beat it with a single ship? Again its all about the fitting and if you don't whant to fit a large neut on your raven then go back to high sec and fly lvl4. Only because you don't whan't to fit a ship in that way you need to defend yourselfe doesn't mean you need the others until you can keep your fit!
Torothanax	Posted - 2010.09.14 18:00:00 - [375] The bottom line is there is not counter to a cloak. Broken mechanic. It's not balanced from a game pov, and it's not even close to realistic from an RP pov. Last I checked this was a pvp rpg.
AFK Griefer	Posted - 2010.09.14 18:04:00 - [376] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: AFK Griefer Check it out it is the new AFK cloaker, just not as cool or origional! Find your own Meme bud! I am not my brothers keeper. You seem to rage like those in local, I find this a blessing.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.14 18:24:00 - [377] Originally by: Hagbard23Celine So what you are saying is nerv titans, nerv moms, nerv carrier, nerv dreads, nerv bs, nerv hacs, nerv everything because you can't beat it with a single ship? Again its all about the fitting and if you don't whant to fit a large neut on your raven then go back to high sec and fly lvl4. Only because you don't whan't to fit a ship in that way you need to defend yourselfe doesn't mean you need the others until you can keep your fit! I really hope you aren't representative of the majority of Evoke. At least Mark Hadden can sound believable.
SGT FUNYOUN Gallente	Posted - 2010.09.14 18:31:00 - [378] Edited by: SGT FUNYOUN on 14/09/2010 18:33:19 Ok I have a solution for the cloak/anti-cloak argument. How about if CCP creates a new class of Destroyer. A Destroyer Class Stealth Bomber! Check out this thread for all the details. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1383648 This is what I am thinking. Say my Corp and I are fleeting around doing a mining mish in null right? Then, next thing we know we have an SB Frigate (FSB) or even one of these new SB Destroyers (DSB) pop up on local. A smart Corp would have a few guys with some small cloaker frigates equipped with Smartbombs for running close in Decloak Ops by just orbiting at about 5-10 km and leaving the Smarts on constant fire; and several of these new DSB's dumping cheap bombs at regular intervals and prime hideyholes while orbiting at about 15 and 30 km to try and decloak and destroy any SB's who might be in the area. I call this tactic Counter Cloaking. Think of how a pair of snipers fight one another if they ever have to. They each stealth up to one another as best they can and then the first one to mess up gets a bullet in the head. Same concept here. Massive amounts of large well targeted explosions in a small enough area and many SB pilots would try another target. Oh and stop whining about cloakers "messing up your gameplay". Try getting better at playing the game you noob. Yargh. I be SGT Funyoun. King of the Pirates!!!
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.14 19:39:00 - [379] Trying to push your own agenda in an unrelated thread and then calling us noobs for having an opinion isn't the best way to rally support, Funyoun.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.14 23:42:00 - [380] Originally by: AFK Griefer I am not my brothers keeper. You seem to rage like those in local, I find this a blessing. Hey you are not AFK at all! Your lies weaken your credibilty! Sir I challenge you to a duel, we both go AFK in a popular ratting system first one to do something loses! See you on the not really a battlefeid! -- Alara's Law! As an online discussion on EVE ships grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Dominix approaches 1

Nahkep Narmelion Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE	Posted - 2010.09.15 01:52:00 - [381] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Fly in right before or after downtime. Use an alt in a newb ship to scout. The amount of risk to actually get into a system is minimal. Sure, will you now admit that cloaking ships are not 100% safe and that there is at least some risk getting into system. Oh and not everyone lives in a place where going into a system at downtime is feasible, nor is it going to feasible to go camp someone like you right at downtime, you live in Branch for Chrissake. Its not like I have to go from Torrinos into EC- and start camping you. Quote: Difference being you are not in a station. You are in space where other people are hunting for you. You have no right to be safe, just like the carebears you're so interested in hunting have no right to be safe if they're not docked up. You are basing your comments on the premise that psy-war is not a valid strategy in the game. If it is a valid strategy then having cloaking ships being pretty safe at a safespot while afk isn't at all unreasonable. Quote: Again, requiring a system with a station where the people in the station have no mobility, no way of checking what's outside the station, or otherwise going about your business as usual. Advanced cloak ships have none of these problems. Irrelevant I'm afraid. If the cloaking pilot is watching your stations undock, is warping around, and so forth then he is not afk and that is apparently not what bothers you. Quote: Just for you to think on: Do you know how many non-cloaky enemy/neutral ships have been in our space in the last two months? Ignoring freshly made characters in noob ships, three. One came out of a wormhole, and went right back in. The other two were dramiels (who still had cloaks fitted they just couldn't warp with them). Out of easily 200+ people, every single other one has been either a recon or stealth bomber. Obviously cloaking ships are perfectly balanced. Two things for you, and maybe your alliance leadership, to think on: 1. Do you think that maybe your participation in these threads is part of the reason? 2. Are you talking in all of your systems or just the one's you like to rat in? If its the latter you are doing it wrong. Quote: Hi, my name is Nahkep, and I want to effect the enemy without any risk to myself. Also anything that changes my crutch playstyle is obviously a no no. You're more of a carebear than the people ratting. You also can't read, since many of the suggestions people make in regards to afk cloaking wouldn't actually effect active cloakers. Nothing about what cloaky ships does requires them to be afk. Nope. Actually I am usually in a HAC, BC or even a BS. Sometimes a recon, but then we don't afk cloak in hostile systems usually. Quote: Every argument I've ever seen for afk ratting has had multiple people counter it. But those counters get ignored, and then 5 posts later a different one of the same 8 people defending afk cloaking pipes up with the initial arguments again. Read through all these threads. It's how every single one of them goes. The counters never get argued. WTFAYTA? Afk ratting? And I bet if you look hard you'll see I'm fairly new to the afk cloaking threads. The only afk ratting I've ever done is in empire in a level 4 mission in an ishtar in those few missions where there is a single spawn or I can force the spawns. Then I can send in the drones and go afk....anything else is likely a macro...and what this has to do with cloaking ships messing with your head, I don't know.
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.15 05:19:00 - [382] Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion Sure, will you now admit that cloaking ships are not 100% safe and that there is at least some risk getting into system. The point is the risk is so negligible you may as well not mention it. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion You are basing your comments on the premise that psy-war is not a valid strategy in the game. If it is a valid strategy then having cloaking ships being pretty safe at a safespot while afk isn't at all unreasonable. I have no problem with trying to affect morale or interfere with ratting. Doing that while afk is my problem. You should not be able to have an effect on the enemy without actually being there playing - neither should you be completely safe if you aren't docking up. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion Irrelevant I'm afraid. If the cloaking pilot is watching your stations undock, is warping around, and so forth then he is not afk and that is apparently not what bothers you. If they're actively playing I have no qualms with them, and I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting things that would stop that. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion Two things for you, and maybe your alliance leadership, to think on: 1. Do you think that maybe your participation in these threads is part of the reason? 2. Are you talking in all of your systems or just the one's you like to rat in? If its the latter you are doing it wrong. If you try and make a game suggestion via anything other than the forums, they ignore it and tell you to use the forums. This is the only place to do so, hence the "ideas" part of the forum name. Really afk cloakers haven't been much of an issue to me, well, ever, but I hate having neutrals or reds around that can't possibly be caught. If there's no risk to them, why should there be risk for anyone else? Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion WTFAYTA? Afk ratting? And I bet if you look hard you'll see I'm fairly new to the afk cloaking threads. The only afk ratting I've ever done is in empire in a level 4 mission in an ishtar in those few missions where there is a single spawn or I can force the spawns. Then I can send in the drones and go afk....anything else is likely a macro...and what this has to do with cloaking ships messing with your head, I don't know. Typo on my part. ...in bed.
JoeBobSmithHenryFord	Posted - 2010.09.15 05:38:00 - [383] Edited by: JoeBobSmithHenryFord on 15/09/2010 05:39:16 Originally by: Allestin Villimar You're more of a carebear than the people ratting. You also can't read, since many of the suggestions people make in regards to afk cloaking wouldn't actually effect active cloakers. Nothing about what cloaky ships does requires them to be afk. What gets me about this whole thing is that you seem to think that the only pvp is the one that doesn't have cloaking involved. Its obvious noone is going to change your mind about this legal tactic, and your not going to change everyone elses mind either. So just give up on this thread, the whole subject is a dead horse. To keep this thread going inspite only makes you look like you want the game to played your way only. In the end, it only makes people to want to afk cloak your corp and alliance, and it also makes you really look like a pretentious ****sucker.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.15 05:47:00 - [384] Edited by: Rhadia on 15/09/2010 05:55:14 Originally by: JoeBobSmithHenryFord What gets me about this whole thing is that you seem to think that the only pvp is the one that doesn't have cloaking involved. Its obvious noone is going to change your mind about this legal tactic, and your not going to change everyone elses mind either. So just give up on this thread, the whole subject is a dead horse. To keep this thread going inspite only makes you look like you want the game to played your way only. In the end, it only makes people to want to afk cloak your corp and alliance, and it also makes you really look like a pretentious ****sucker. Sorry man, but there's always those few guys who look for the cheapest, most efficient way to win. While that is a powerful skillset to have, and fair enough, unfortunately it inevitably leads to the development, or discovery of a broken tactic. Broken meaning using a particular formula there is no longer any chance of defeat. It's the community, and the Dev team's job to decide in what situations a ship should truly be unbeatable, but in the case of a single, solo, cloaky ship they've got one small advantage that has made them able to completely circumvent every pvp danger of this game in one way or another. Nobody arguing here, save a few unfortunately unintelligent folk, and the trolls, are trying to drastically change the way cloaks operate. We only want the same effort we put into defense to be equaled by the effort it takes for them to be a threat. Nothing more, nothing less.
JoeBobSmithHenryFord	Posted - 2010.09.15 05:56:00 - [385] Originally by: Rhadia Sorry man, but there's always those few guys who look for the cheapest, most efficient way to win. While that is a powerful skillset to have, and fair enough, unfortunately it inevitably leads to the development, or discovery of a broken tactic. Broken meaning using a particular formula there is no longer any chance of defeat. It's the community, and the Dev's team to decide in what situations a ship should truly be unbeatable, but in the case of a single, solo, cloaky ship they've got one small advantage that has made them able to completely circumvent every pvp danger of this game in one way or another. Nobody arguing here, save a few unfortunately unintelligent folk, and the trolls, are trying to drastically change the way cloaks operate. We only want the same effort we put into defense to be equaled by the effort it takes for them to be a threat. Sure mate, everyone wants to improve the game, is afk cloaking a pain in the ass, sure. But it seems the only thing that will make the anti-afk cloaker crowd happy is if they nerf cloaking ships into oblivion. Because eventually the current proposed changes won't be enough, and so more will be demanded. I personally don't afk cloak, but i'd rather have an afk cloaker in system than to learn my recon is about as useless as a noobie ship.
Nahkep Narmelion Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE	Posted - 2010.09.15 06:01:00 - [386] ok i've had 4 martini's and the fact that i can find the **ing enter key is a freaking miracle...... Quote: The point is the risk is so negligible you may as well not mention it. Oh bullst!! You've got a cov-ops loss on you KB. It isn't negligible for an alliance that is serious about protecting its space. Quote: I have no problem with trying to affect morale or interfere with ratting. Doing that while afk is my problem. You should not be able to have an effect on the enemy without actually being there playing - neither should you be completely safe if you aren't docking up. Says you. CCP might think differently, like I do. It isn't that hard to figure if the guy is afk or not. Why don't you try and get the united front alliance to actually...you know...provide a united front. If an alliance member calls for help drop your socks, grab your **s and head into an engagement and get some nice KMs for you KB? Quote: If you try and make a game suggestion via anything other than the forums, they ignore it and tell you to use the forums. This is the only place to do so, hence the "ideas" part of the forum name. Really afk cloakers haven't been much of an issue to me, well, ever, but I hate having neutrals or reds around that can't possibly be caught. If there's no risk to them, why should there be risk for anyone else? Are you usually in the habit of neutering your own arguments? Anyways, this goes back to my point about subtlety. If you offer juicy bait and he doesn't take it he is afk. Fit a half way decent tank and if he does engage you scream for help. No shame in that. Hopefully you'll kill him. Quote: Sorry man, but there's always those few guys who look for the cheapest, most efficient way to win. Oh for God's sake Rhadia grow a pair or just f*ing uninstall the game dude.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.15 07:04:00 - [387] Originally by: JoeBobSmithHenryFord Sure mate, everyone wants to improve the game, is afk cloaking a pain in the ass, sure. But it seems the only thing that will make the anti-afk cloaker crowd happy is if they nerf cloaking ships into oblivion. Me and others have repeatedly stated that the only thing we want changed is their ability to effortlessly circumvent almost every danger of Eve by simply going afk while cloaked and waiting everything out. Quote: Oh for God's sake Rhadia grow a pair or just f***ing uninstall the game dude. Way to jump the gun and go straight to personal attacks. You don't know me, and you never will- Lay off the martini-induced forum posting so replying to you might actually accomplish something.
Mark Hadden Amarr Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.09.15 07:44:00 - [388] Originally by: Allestin Villimar You should not be able to have an effect on the enemy without actually being there playing - neither should you be completely safe if you aren't docking up. no. Why should it be that way? Its you who is too dumb to handle afk bomber pilots. Originally by: Rhadia Me and others have repeatedly stated that the only thing we want changed is their ability to effortlessly circumvent almost every danger of Eve by simply going afk while cloaked and waiting everything out. lol, you complain people arent flying in your camps. Thats really stupid, dude. If there was no afk cloaking they would just log off for a undefined time and come back when your camp is over, maybe even using a scout.
Xorv	Posted - 2010.09.15 07:45:00 - [389] Some of us think AFK cloaking is an improvement to EVE not something that needs to be fixed. It's a counter to Local Chat. If you want to remove AFK cloaking, fix the real problem and remove Local Chat first. As to cloaking as a whole it's a good tool for the few to fight against (or avoid) the many, precisely by being able to pick the time and place they attack and to swiftly retreat back into the shadows (assuming no traps or counter ambushes). Together with speed it's the two key options in guerrilla/skirmish type fighting in EVE. Looking at the nerf cloaking posts it seems they basically want one of two things, to either PvE completely safely in Nullsec or to Blob people. Neither sounds like good game play to me, so again I say Cloaking in general and AFK cloaking in particular are positives for EVE. They don't need a nerf, if anything CCP should find ways to boost that sort of gameplay.
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.15 15:03:00 - [390] Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion Oh bullst!! You've got a cov-ops loss on you KB. It isn't negligible for an alliance that is serious about protecting its space. Yeah, funny how someone dies when they jump into a system with an 80+ roam on the gate. If you try entering around downtime, there's no risk. Same as if you use a newb alt to scout. The cloak then gives you perfect safety until you actually decide to play. Originally by:** Nahkep Narmelion Says you. CCP might think differently, like I do. CCP hasn't said anything one way or another (And I wish they would). But EVE (and moreso 0.0) is risky, and there's no risk to afking while cloaked. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion Are you usually in the habit of neutering your own arguments? Anyways, this goes back to my point about subtlety. If you offer juicy bait and he doesn't take it he is afk. Fit a half way decent tank and if he does engage you scream for help. No shame in that. Hopefully you'll kill him. Nothing I've said hinders my arguments at all except to people who think I'm whining about combat capabilities. My point has always been: Why can cloakers afk endlessly with complete safety in hostile systems? I think the combat capabilities of the ships are fine due to their ability to pick their fights. But picking your fights shouldn't include station-type safety in every system you go to. I suggested a type of probe in the other thread because those take a while to scan down someone and find them. It would allow for short afks to grab a drink or whatnot, but none of this afk-for-6-hours crap. ...in bed.

Mark Hadden Amarr Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.09.15 17:41:00 - [391] Originally by: Allestin Villimar CCP hasn't said anything one way or another (And I wish they would). But EVE (and moreso 0.0) is risky, and there's no risk to afking while cloaked. curious, some people say 0.0 is safer than empire. In some regions its true. There is no risk in many things in eve, risk vs. reward is a lie in many many cases; so for cloaking its the same.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.15 20:46:00 - [392] Edited by: Rhadia on 15/09/2010 20:47:44 Originally by: Mark Hadden curious, some people say 0.0 is safer than empire. In some regions its true. There is no risk in many things in eve, risk vs. reward is a lie in many many cases; so for cloaking its the same. Risk Vs Reward is true for a lot of things in Eve, Hadden, and it's a terrible excuse to think any of us should be safe from that simple philosophy. It's what the entire game is based on. 0.0 Having deep pockets far from any enemy is not a problem particularly with the PVP of the game, but the sovereignty system and how it promotes pvp, which is an entirely different discussion. The people who say 0.0 is safer than Empire are really quite wrong. Look, there's a lot of things I'd like to change about PVP to make it more reasonable, and most of those would make stealth bombers far more useful in the field. Unfortunately, I don't think it's a wise choice to try to change it all at once. As far as current mechanics go, using a very simple set of tactics, CovOps ships/cloakies have found way to become essentially invulnerable with very little risk to themselves. That's why I'm arguing here to solve the one thing that makes them play unfairly, which is the unlimited nature of their cloak. In the end all I want to see is equal effort on both ends to both attack, or defend. Right now there is a large tilt in the scales lending every bit of effort only to the defender while the attacker sits back and does nothing- This is what is unfair. This is all that I wish to change.
Glyken Touchon Gallente Independent Alchemists	Posted - 2010.09.15 21:15:00 - [393] Edited by: Glyken Touchon on 15/09/2010 21:20:42 Originally by: Rhadia In the end all I want to see is equal effort on both ends to both attack, or defend. Right now there is a large tilt in the scales lending every bit of effort only to the defender while the attacker sits back and does nothing- This is what is unfair. This is all that I wish to change. If they're AFK they aren't attacking.. no effort, but nothing gained.no risk, but no reward. If they're not AFK, you say you don't have a problem? A red/non-blue should affect how you act in a system, but most people seem to over-react and want to dock up/cease operations altogether. Reminds me of the flash for RMR- the bit about Big Blue edit- link failure
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.15 21:32:00 - [394] Originally by: Glyken Touchon If they're AFK they aren't attacking.. no effort, but nothing gained.no risk, but no reward. If they're not AFK, you say you don't have a problem? -sigh- Lemme say it again: They do accomplish things while AFK. Derp. We've said this repeatedly. It's obvious the use of going afk, so don't pretend they're not accomplishing anything while they aren't at the computer. Going afk forces anyone serious about defending to either: A. Let them through the gate- Let them attack a player when you're unprepared to assist. B. Remain 100% active and ready to try to catch them, defend your friends while they're not even at the computer. Risk vs Reward? The reward is absolutely forcing your enemy to adhere to rules you impose upon them when there is absolutely no risk to them in exchange.
Xorv	Posted - 2010.09.15 22:00:00 - [395] Originally by: Rhadia Originally by: Glyken Touchon If they're AFK they aren't attacking.. no effort, but nothing gained.no risk, but no reward. If they're not AFK, you say you don't have a problem? -sigh- Lemme say it again: They do accomplish things while AFK. Derp. We've said this repeatedly. It's obvious the use of going afk, so don't pretend they're not accomplishing anything while they aren't at the computer. Going afk forces anyone serious about defending to either: A. Let them through the gate- Let them attack a player when you're unprepared to assist. B. Remain 100% active and ready to try to catch them, defend your friends while they're not even at the computer. Risk vs Reward? The reward is absolutely forcing your enemy to adhere to rules you impose upon them when there is absolutely no risk to them in exchange. - Double Sigh - As has been said over and over and over again, all these "problems" you list are a result of you having super easy intel via Local Chat. Which is itself unbalanced. You want complete control of your gaming environment, want to zerg people at gates, and PvE more safely than Empire... Then you have the nerve to talk about Risk vs Reward in regard to AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers aren't "forcing" you to do anything, although your right it would be wise to be on guard for an attack, but this is 0 Security space were talking about. When/if the cloaker does attack they aren't AFK and they aren't cloaked, and unless fighting against fools their actions most certainly are not risk free.
Etrias Jhozah Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2010.09.15 22:56:00 - [396] OMG! Everyone now puts a cloak on their ship and sits in space then walks away from their PC because that's the automatic "I win" button for EVE! Everyone flies cloaky ships now and no one in space can see anything except for all the icons in local. Oh wait, that's right, that's not happening at all. Nice hijack of the thread Allestin and Rhadia. Take a thread that had all it's momentum built up on the General forum before being moved to F&ID where it was supposed to die a nice quiet death, then you two show up with your personal vendetta's to pursue claiming that there's some "groundswell" of support of your positions. But all I see is the same two arguing with, oh I don't know, everyone else about the same old, same old. I tried to be nice talking with you guys, but now it just seems that you got butt-hurt by some cloaker who ganked you. So, did you lose faction gear, is that it? What was it that made you snap? Because no matter that pilot after pilot who are in 0.0 and say there's nothing wrong with cloaking, you still are saying the same f-ing thing. You have so many holes in your arguments, sieve manufacturers are clamoring for your contact information. If you two are going to troll like this, make it easy on us and just CTRL-C/CTRL-V because your arguments are nothing more than rehashes from other threads.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.15 23:04:00 - [397] Originally by: Xorv As has been said over and over and over again, all these "problems" you list are a result of you having super easy intel via Local Chat. Which is itself unbalanced. Yet here you are arguing that something else is broken. Dictated by current game mechanics, this tactic is unfair, unchallengeable, and abused. I would absolutely love to see local removed and I've argued it in many cases, but as it is right both CCP and I understand the drastic changes that would take hold of how people play the game in 0.0. They don't want people ragequitting even if they are whiny carebears, that is why removing local is dangerous. Originally by: Xorv You want complete control of your gaming environment, want to zerg people at gates, and PvE more safely than Empire... Then you have the nerve to talk about Risk vs Reward in regard to AFK cloakers. No, no, and no. And you have the nerve to talk about risk vs reward when the only thing you are defending here is something that allows you to reap reward with no risk to yourself. Originally by: Xorv AFK cloakers aren't "forcing" you to do anything, although your right it would be wise to be on guard for an attack, but this is 0 Security space were talking about. When/if the cloaker does attack they aren't AFK and they aren't cloaked, and unless fighting against fools their actions most certainly are not risk free. AFK Cloakers are making rules when no real rules can be applied to them. They have total control of their situation, so much so that a pilot can kick his feet back and ******** furiously without bothering to look at his screen for about an hour or twelve and know for a fact that nothing can/will happen to him. Remind me again what cloaker will attack a ship that has the ability to tackle them. Remind me again how long it takes a stealth bomber to warp off as soon as a real tackle threat arrives. Remind me again how this means that they are in ANY danger while attacking a target that they chose in the first place. Believe me, I absolutely understand why the majority of cloaky/griefer/bomber pilots are so active in these forums. It's become apparent that there is so little danger... so little excitement in piloting these ships that the only satisfaction to be gained is their KB stats and the tears they have desperately tried to harvest right here on these forums. Forums they're probably browsing while they sit cloaked in a system, no less, but that's probably simple speculation on my part. Don't play me for a fool. I am a bomber pilot myself, and I have been since a month or so after started the game. I have been on the attacking, and defending ends of covert PVP and believe me when I understand the grievances of both sides. I am not here to make stealth bombers lame and useless. I'm here to ensure they play on the same grounds as every other player in Eve and they aren't reduced further into the dust by pathetic tactics like this. Eve is a passive game as it is- We don't need cloaked alts leading the war effort simply because it's such a viable tactic. This is the wrong direction for Covert PVP and you all** need to realize this.
Mark Hadden Amarr Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.09.15 23:43:00 - [398] Edited by: Mark Hadden on 15/09/2010 23:45:09 Originally by: Rhadia Risk Vs Reward is true for a lot of things in Eve, Hadden, and it's a terrible excuse to think any of us should be safe from that simple philosophy. and for many it does not apply. Originally by: Rhadia It's what the entire game is based on. yes, for this reason you can blob and gank at will almost everything what flies, assumed you have the power... except for cloakers Originally by: Rhadia 0.0 Having deep pockets far from any enemy is not a problem particularly with the PVP of the game what does that mean? Originally by: Rhadia As far as current mechanics go, using a very simple set of tactics, CovOps ships/cloakies have found way to become essentially invulnerable with very little risk to themselves. so, if cloakers would be probable, people would jump right on them even while they're afk. Whats fair on that? Eve isnt fair. Learn that finally. People blob other people who hasnt a slightest chance against a blob of multiple size... or even onto a single ship. Nothing new about unfairness in eve, so stop using this word for argumenting any game mechanic. Originally by: Rhadia That's why I'm arguing here to solve the one thing that makes them play unfairly, which is the unlimited nature of their cloak. eve is unfair, its played unfair all the time. The sooner you get that the better it will be for you. Originally by: Rhadia In the end all I want to see is equal effort on both ends to both attack, or defend. blobbing a single cloaker?? Are you kidding? Exactly that is going to happen when cloakers will be detectable in some way. Originally by: Rhadia -sigh- Lemme say it again: They do accomplish things while AFK. Derp. We've said this repeatedly. half eve is working afk. So what? Originally by: Rhadia Going afk forces anyone serious about defending to either: A. Let them through the gate- Let them attack a player when you're unprepared to assist. B. Remain 100% active and ready to try to catch them, defend your friends while they're not even at the computer. yes, its fine as it is. Learn how to defeat a **ing single cloaker. You've chosen to go to 0.0, your problem, learn how its played. Originally by:** Rhadia Risk vs Reward? The reward is absolutely forcing your enemy to adhere to rules you impose upon them when there is absolutely no risk to them in exchange. the risk is there in coming to your sov area, the risk is every single time the cloaker decloaks Cloak is not broken, afk cloaking is not broken, its the only tool which allows psy warfare on larger mass of people, which is all absolutely fine.
Etrias Jhozah Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2010.09.15 23:59:00 - [399] Originally by: Rhadia Believe me, I absolutely understand why the majority of cloaky/griefer/bomber pilots are so active in these forums. It's become apparent that there is so little danger... so little excitement in piloting these ships that the only satisfaction to be gained is their KB stats and the tears they have desperately tried to harvest right here on these forums. Forums they're probably browsing while they sit cloaked in a system, no less, but that's probably simple speculation on my part. Seriously, can you pack more whine into that paragraph? Originally by: Rhadia Nice flame bait, Etrias, but unfortunately you're absolutely wrong. I've never been threatened by a cloaky in system personally, nor have I ever lost even 1 isk because of their efforts. On the contrary, it HAS, however, always been my duty to defend against them with my comrades. As such it's become apparent how effortless it is for bomber pilots to play their risk-free PVP game while those of us serious about defense of space are left in the dust- either having to put forth far more effort into the defense than they do to initiate an attack, or simply letting them roam free effortlessly. Far from trying to be flame bait, but if there's a new idea in this thread that you haven't already beaten to death, that's news to me. I get tired of seeing you and Allestin trot out the same arguments time and again that have been countered numerous times and yet, not good enough for you guys. Oh no, you go with persistence. Hell, some of the points you argue directly contradict themselves, and I particularly find funny the constant trotted out line "I have no problem with cloaking mechanics, just afk cloaking" and yet the complaint is when said cloaker actually DOES something is where your issues take root. I find it hilarious that you declare that you want cloakers to no longer fly risk-free but any ideas from your camp would make 0.0 space even safer for the corps already inhabiting the space. Your complaint about a single cloaked ship being oh-so threatening to your corp and potentially putting a dent in your corpies shiny ships rings hollow. God forbid that you should have to fit a ship with a tank to withstand a single bomber volley or be on your guard when a known hostile is in system. Always the bombers too, isn't it? Never mind that any changes I've seen bandied about would affect the whole class of cloaked ships, making the recon class much more disposable than should be. If you're going to complain about it, be honest where your issues lie. It's not afk anything. It's about getting ganked from a cloaked bomber, but that seems a bit of a tougher sell, doesn't it?
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.16 00:26:00 - [400] Hadden, it's clear you did not understand or thoroughly read my post as every thing you responded with was contradicted or explained. The PVP of Eve, save perhaps waiting out reinforcement timers, is active. Not Afk, but a battle of both patience, skill, and teamwork on both sides of the battle. Stealth bombers circumvent this in the case of AFK cloaking and circumvent certain essential rules of PVP that determine the equal-opportunity fighting terms presented to all players. Truth is, Hadden, we have defeated you. Repeatedly. But the effort required in order to do so was far more than you seem to put forth in a week of your special sort of cloaky PVP, and is far from balanced. Etrias. I'm sorry you feel that such desperate hatred towards us trying to make a fair battleground seems necessary. If you find circular reasoning in these threads, it is only a mirror of your own, and those arguing against us- proving again, repeatedly, that the risk-vs-reward aspect should be notable to all players, and not just the carebears you hunt. You are grasping at threads trying to paint me as someone who is here posting because he's butthurt over a loss, and it's the lowest form of argument. I will state again that the only thing here that I am trying to prove and argue to change is the ability for a CovOps cloaker to gain an advantage by cloaking for the unlimited amount of time he currently can. Who's to say ratters will be suddenly safe with a cloaker in system, simply because he can now be hunted? There's people who have flown ships in system for hours before without being caught WITHOUT a cloak simply because they actively escape attempts to be caught. Who's to say a cloaker would be totally useless from a small, simple change to an unlimited mechanic? It is only you who are defending this mechanic who are dramatizing this to be the end of cloaking and all forms of PVP involved. No... It's not. It's the end to passive, effortless PVPing, making you play by the same rules as everyone else. Sorry, I do understand why you might be angry, but it's a necessary change to ensure fair grounds of play for everyone, both attacking and defending. If you want to know my personal opinion of the matter, it's always been my preference that Cloaks instead require a fuel source as their only limitation, making the danger of prolonged cloaked activity require a supply line back to a hub, or a a cloaky hauler (yes, bringing logistics into the equation as it should be) to supply the ships. The fuel wouldn't have to be massive, or consumed quickly... Just at a manageable rate. Want to stay cloaked in a system forever? Do so, but be sure you have backup to keep your cover. That would be the only limitation, and the only danger added would be an increased need to move through systems- again, making the only real danger a cloaky faces still being as they pass through a gate (something they are designed to get through). Stop your crying, and start listening.

Mark Hadden Amarr Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.09.16 00:39:00 - [401] Edited by: Mark Hadden on 16/09/2010 00:39:40 Originally by: Rhadia The PVP of Eve, save perhaps waiting out reinforcement timers, is active. Not Afk, but a battle of both patience, skill, and teamwork on both sides of the battle. if you start argumenting with facts, you should include cloaky afk pvp also, which is as well a present fact as awaiting timers and teamwork. Originally by: Rhadia Stealth bombers circumvent this in the case of AFK cloaking and circumvent certain essential rules of PVP the rules you like. Fact is, they "circumvent" them is because CCP has given us this form of warfare.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.16 00:50:00 - [402] Originally by: Mark Hadden if you start argumenting with facts, you should include cloaky afk pvp also, which is as well a present fact as awaiting timers and teamwork. the rules you like. Fact is, they "circumvent" them is because CCP has given us this form of warfare. CCP made a mistake. They do not, and can not forsee each and every way a specific mechanic will be used, or abused, after introduction. It's a fairly recent development to see AFK cloaking introduced as a viable form of PVP that has been refined now to the point that it is in essence totally risk free. The risk vs reward motto of Eve is the basis of all mechanics of Eve, next to the balance between races and each class of ship. AFK Cloaking violates these base rules by totally ignoring the risks all ships were intended to have imposed upon them. AFK cloaking may have been an (un)intended aspect of Eve, but it violates far more base, and important rules of gameplay that were defined long before cloaking, and long before the development of this tactic.
Nahkep Narmelion Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE	Posted - 2010.09.16 02:57:00 - [403] Originally by: Rhadia Way to jump the gun and go straight to personal attacks. You don't know me, and you never will- Lay off the martini-induced forum posting so replying to you might actually accomplish something. Oh, I'm sorry you're right. The problem isn't with your balls, but with your brain. Lets see, you wrote.... Quote: Sorry man, but there's always those few guys who look for the cheapest, most efficient way to win. Gee let me think, I'm going to find the most expensive and least efficient way to get kills in this game. Granted its a viable play style I suppose but even Laser007 gave it up. Most of us, not a few, are going to always go for the cheapest and most efficient way to kill hostiles. Quote: While that is a powerful skillset to have, and fair enough, unfortunately it inevitably leads to the development, or discovery of a broken tactic. Broken meaning using a particular formula there is no longer any chance of defeat. Cloaking ships die all the time. Is it easy, do they get away more often than not? Yeah, but so what. The only way to be nearly 100% is: 1. At a POS doing nothing. 2. In a station doing nothing. 3. At a safe spot doing nothing. Notice the common thread? Doing nothing. As soon as you start to do something you are at risk. Now you are saying that one of the above should also entail risk. Because 0.0 shouldn't be riskless....but you want to get that free recon/SB kill without any risk. You don't want to fight him because you want to kill him while he is afk. Quote: It's the community, and the Dev team's job to decide in what situations a ship should truly be unbeatable, but in the case of a single, solo, cloaky ship they've got one small advantage that has made them able to completely circumvent every pvp danger of this game in one way or another. Oh look a total lie. You can only circumvent the pvp danger by going to a safe and cloaking and doing nothing. Big deal. If they do anything else then they are at risk. Land near an object outside a station, pos, gate, etc. and you might very well be toast. Jump into a large roam on the other side of a gate with a couple of dictors....you have problems. The idea that a cloaking ship like a recon or SB carries no risk is just stupid. Even your buddy Allestin has a lossmail in a covops. How did that happen, why didn't he circumvent every PvP danger? Quote: Nobody arguing here, save a few unfortunately unintelligent folk, and the trolls, are trying to drastically change the way cloaks operate. We only want the same effort we put into defense to be equaled by the effort it takes for them to be a threat. As has been pointed out again and again the only way to be almost totally safe with a cloaked ship is at a safe spot doing nothing. In that case they are not a threat. Quote: Yeah, funny how someone dies when they jump into a system with an 80+ roam on the gate. If you try entering around downtime, there's no risk. Same as if you use a newb alt to scout. The cloak then gives you perfect safety until you actually decide to play. So much for the risk being negligible.
Etrias Jhozah Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2010.09.16 03:13:00 - [404] Originally by: Rhadia Etrias. I'm sorry you feel that such desperate hatred towards us trying to make a fair battleground seems necessary. Blah, blah, blah. I've engaged you before with reasoning which did no good. Obviously, you are trying to project some emotional attachment to me and my responses. Pathetic. Originally by: Rhadia If you find circular reasoning in these threads, it is only a mirror of your own, and those arguing against us- proving again, repeatedly, that the risk-vs-reward aspect should be notable to all players, and not just the carebears you hunt. This is amusing on two levels. First, I really don't want to go through all the past pages in this and other threads where you and your ilk have said specifically "I don't have a problem with stealth bombers, just afk cloakers" and then the only reasoning used to justify crippling cloaking is attack based only. I really don't see any contradiction in my position. Secondly, I know you like to prop yourself up as some sort of paragon of virtue stating that you only are doing this from a risk/reward basis for the good of the game. Lest you forget your words from an earlier thread: Originally by: Rhadia Don't play me for a fool. I am a bomber pilot myself, and I have been since a month or so after started the game. I have been on the attacking, and defending ends of covert PVP and believe me when I understand the grievances of both sides. Allow me to let you in on a secret...I don't really have a dog in this fight. I'm primarily a miner and the only time I step in my cloak is when I'm probing out wormholes. It would be in my own personal interest to have some cloak detector or some lame fuel requirement so I can go about my business in peace. I'm arguing that the cloak mechanic is fine the way it is because I actually believe it's better for the game. Originally by: Rhadia There's people who have flown ships in system for hours before without being caught WITHOUT a cloak simply because they actively escape attempts to be caught. Who's to say a cloaker would be totally useless from a small, simple change to an unlimited mechanic? This is possibly the worst argument I've ever heard. And it really doesn't have a thing to do with this thread. Originally by: Rhadia It is only you who are defending this mechanic who are dramatizing this to be the end of cloaking and all forms of PVP involved. No... It's not. It's the end to passive, effortless PVPing, making you play by the same rules as everyone else. Poor use of hyperbole as no one is making that your "fix" will end all PvP. Your grand idea is nothing but a pointless mechanism designed to do what exactly? Put stealth on a timer? Some lazy mechanism to justify more laziness by pilots threatened by a simple cloaked ship. Originally by: Rhadia Sorry, I do understand why you might be angry... Projection again...I have no hurt feelings on this. Originally by: Rhadia Stop your crying, and start listening. Hahaha! Oh man, relax will you. Rhadia, you're much like Don Quixote attacking the dragon on the hill, and here I am trying to get you to stop attacking the windmills. Your tired arguments have gotten nowhere, not even a hint of dev attention and much derision from all corners...and we're the ones not listening?
Nahkep Narmelion Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE	Posted - 2010.09.16 03:28:00 - [405] Quote: Stealth bombers circumvent this in the case of AFK cloaking and circumvent certain essential rules of PVP that determine the equal-opportunity fighting terms presented to all players. What? Equal opportunity? Rules? I don't think we are playing the same game. In Eve everything is fair game so long as it doesn't violate the Eula, TOS or is a bug. If CCP made it possible for me to fire a missile into the docking bay that could find you and shoot you....I'd use it. Again and again and again. This isn't about boxing or fighting within the Marquess of Queensberry rules. This is Eve and it is ruthless.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.16 03:29:00 - [406] Opening you post first with a personal attack- First step in proving how little of an argument you really have, and how little I should care that you've even responded. You're not much seeming smarter when you're sober (assuming you are) than when you've been enjoying your martinis. Second, way to quote me, implying my sentence meant something entirely different, and the quoting directly afterwards me saying that the sentence meant exactly the opposite of what you interpreted. Gotta quote the whole thing to get the correct context- Something you apparently didn't realize when reading: Quote: Sorry man, but there's always those few guys who look for the cheapest, most efficient way to win. While that is a powerful skillset to have, and fair enough, unfortunately it inevitably leads to the development, or discovery of a broken tactic. Broken meaning using a particular formula there is no longer any chance of defeat. Using a particular formula, there is no longer any chance of defeat. No risk, unless the formula is broken. Mark Hadden is my usual example because (yes, feel free to take it as a compliment if you want) he is the most efficient stealth bomber pilot I've seen so far, and uses afk cloaking to it's greatest degree. AFK at a gate. Wait for the camp to get bored and leave then slip through. If enemy gets persistant, start using a scout (Mark Hadden has very expensive Purifiers). Scout checks gate. If there's a camp? Go afk again (Scout is either a cloaky, fast enough to get away/reapproach, or is a cheap throwaway). Check again? If the camp is still there, repeat previous steps. Camp is gone. Slip through, set up in system. Wait in system for a while (afk, usually, unless scouting potential targets). Ganking: Find target->Observe target->Evaluate combat ability/how well his tank holds up to rats->Decloak->Lock->Overload all modules->Initiate attack->Align to celestial->Spam D-Scan/watch combat overview->Finish kill->Warp away->Cloak up->Go AFK->Repeat If anyone does respond to the attack, Hadden not only knows far in advance if they're coming, but also is able to warp before they even manage to land. No stealth bomber pilot would attack anything fast enough to tackle them, not to mention (faction points aside, Hadden) that he is usually far outside point range, anyways. The instant tacklers arrive, they've not got a chance to tackle him anyways because he's got more than enough time to warp away. This is just my experience with Hadden- We did eventually find a way to catch him, but it involved us having to devote 100% of our time waiting for him to initiate an attack, whether he was AFK or not. He was, in essence, unable to be caught/killed unless we devoted such incredible amounts of time JUST to catch him. Mark Hadden's defense, of course, is that Sov Space isn't ours and we shouldn't have the ability to defend it, and that we should just let him cull our weaker population at will. But what about those of us charged with the defense of them? No thanks. Using his method of attack he has total control of the situation at all times- Sure, the ratting ship can attack him back- But usually the target's fate was decided by the time a lock was established, not to mention the time it then takes for drones to reach him. Bait ships do not work unless your bomber pilot is inexperienced as to his attack plan. Etc, etc, etc. Again, I'll repeat... Don't take me for a fool. I know both sides of this argument well enough, and circular logic won't suddenly make you right somehow. A simple algorithm and one noob alt is enough to make a stealth bomber pilot invulnerable to all attempts to kill him.
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.16 03:31:00 - [407] Originally by: Xorv - Double Sigh - As has been said over and over and over again, all these "problems" you list are a result of you having super easy intel via Local Chat. Which is itself unbalanced. Stop. Local and afk cloaking are two entirely separate issues, and having one does not justify the other. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion Cloaking ships die all the time. Is it easy, do they get away more often than not? Yeah, but so what. The only way to be nearly 100% is: 1. At a POS doing nothing. 2. In a station doing nothing. 3. At a safe spot doing nothing. POS and station people know where you are. You also can't probe or scan in a station, things you can do while at a safe spot. If you're gathering intel, then warping every couple of minutes isn't too difficult to do. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion Oh look a total lie. You can only circumvent the pvp danger by going to a safe and cloaking and doing nothing. Big deal. If they do anything else then they are at risk. Land near an object outside a station, pos, gate, etc. and you might very well be toast. Jump into a large roam on the other side of a gate with a couple of dictors....you have problems. The idea that a cloaking ship like a recon or SB carries no risk is just stupid. A cloaking ship played well doesn't. Are you warping to 10 km everywhere you go? If so, you deserve to run into things. Do you travel using any sort of intel channels? You probably won't jump into a roam if you do. Are you attacking players in fast-locking ships with warp jammers? Then you don't know how to use the ship. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion Even your buddy Allestin has a lossmail in a covops. How did that happen, why didn't he circumvent every PvP danger? I undocked about the same time my nephew yanked the power cord out of the wireless modem. 3 year olds are by far the most destructive force in the universe. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion As has been pointed out again and again the only way to be almost totally safe with a cloaked ship is at a safe spot doing nothing. In that case they are not a threat. Remember that whole "Having an effect on the enemy with no risk to yourself" thing I've been going on about for a while? Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion So much for the risk being negligible. So much for you not taking things out of context. He didn't scout, he wasn't operating near downtime, and he sure as hell wasn't watching any intel channels. Traveling in 0.0 is risky no matter what you're in. Aside from that, if 80ish people in interceptors and interdictors is what's needed to stop a single cheap ship from entering a system, that's entirely out of proportion. ...in bed.
Nahkep Narmelion Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE	Posted - 2010.09.16 04:50:00 - [408] Rhadia, It isn't a few of us, it is pretty much all of us. And it isn't something to be condemned or looked down upon it is the smartest way to play the game. Also your sentence is contradictory, you say it is fair, then say it leads to discovery of a broken tactic...i.e. something not fair. Really, you aren't nearly half as smart as you think you are. Quote: Using a particular formula, there is no longer any chance of defeat. No risk, unless the formula is broken. Yeah, cloaking ships never get killed. These kinds of over-statements make you sound like a NUB. Mark Hadden has also lost 10 purifiers on his battleclinic.com kill board on the front page alone. Kinda shoots your invincible argument completely out of the water. Yeah he is also good, probably because he's lost lots of purifiers--i.e. he has learned by doing and is now good. Not just in terms of skill points, but also he knows how to fly that ship well. Quote: Using his method of attack he has total control of the situation at all times.... You are wildly overstating your case, if this were true Mark Hadden would have no purifier losses, but he does. You know he had expensive fits because you look at his lossmails. You simply aren't being honest here. On one particularly bad day Hadden lost not 1 but 2 purifiers and a pod. Quote: But usually the target's fate was decided by the time a lock was established May I suggest that you not use the word usually, or you go back to your statement preceding this one and change it. The two don't quite go together. Quote: A simple algorithm and one noob alt is enough to make a stealth bomber pilot invulnerable to all attempts to kill him. Mark Hadden wants to have words with you over his purifier loss mail in the alley. Marquess of Queensberry rules will obviously not apply. Allestin, Quote: POS and station people know where you are. Irrelevant, the issue is 100% or close enough safety for pilots. Both the station and the POS provide that. Quote: You also can't probe or scan in a station, things you can do while at a safe spot. Irrelevant cause said cloaking pilot is not afk which is your gripe. Quote: If you're gathering intel, then warping every couple of minutes isn't too difficult to do. Again irrelevant for the same reason. What a tw@t you are, BTW. When somebody says, "cloaking ships are paper thin" you run to "oh I'm only complaining about afk cloaking" but when somebody says, POS, station you immediately run to activities for a non-afk cloaking ship. Make up your fking mind or GTFO. Quote: A cloaking ship played well doesn't. Are you warping to 10 km everywhere you go? If so, you deserve to run into things. Do you travel using any sort of intel channels? You probably won't jump into a roam if you do. Are you attacking players in fast-locking ships with warp jammers? Then you don't know how to use the ship. And yet guys like the invincible Mark Hadden and you die in cloaking ships. [No offense Mark, you're an awesome pilot and I have loads of respect of Evoke, loved fighting you guys recently in Syndicate, you brought good fights.] Quote: I undocked about the same time my nephew yanked the power cord out of the wireless modem. 3 year olds are by far the most destructive force in the universe. Yo Mark, does this explain all your loss mails too? I'm thinking not. I'm thinking sometimes you get the worm and sometimes the worm gets you. Quote: Remember that whole "Having an effect on the enemy with no risk to yourself" thing I've been going on about for a while? You mean that part of you being a bch and swapping between afk and non-afk? Yeah i got that. I think psychological warfare is a valid tactic.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.16 05:55:00 - [409] Allow me to remind you that my emphasis was on the effort required to kill Mark Hadden (or any stealth bomber that knows his ****) and how much more it required on our part compared to his. To get any kills on Mark Hadden we are forced to remain active every moment, waiting. Constant effort in order to counteract, and destroy, a threat that doesn't even have to be at his keyboard to be safe from every threat in Eve. Again, Mark Hadden's defense is that there shouldn't BE a way to turn the tables on a cloaker unless you've baited him, but I disagree.
Nahkep Narmelion Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE	Posted - 2010.09.16 06:45:00 - [410] Quote: Allow me to remind you that my emphasis was on the effort required to kill Mark Hadden (or any stealth bomber that knows his ****) and how much more it required on our part compared to his. To get any kills on Mark Hadden we are forced to remain active every moment, waiting. One little itsy bitsy problem Rhadia, dear boy, in looking at Hadden's KB in closer detail it appears his most recent kills are not afk cloaking. He is in a group that consists of cloaking ships, interceptors and even the odd HAC or BC. He is not the epitome of the lone hard killer who spends long hours afk waiting for the kill. In fact, on a number of his kills he has done no damage at all. It appears you've picked a bad example.

Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.16 07:08:00 - [411] Edited by: Rhadia on 16/09/2010 07:09:38 So because he does other things in Eve he's not the perfect example? You're not even making any sense. I use him as an example because his tactics represent exactly the kind of care-free gameplay that makes him nearly invulnerable. He even posted a video of himself killing ratters that showed just how effortless it was. The only time he was remotely in danger was when he reduced to armor by some drones, but he only allowed himself to get taken that far because the ship he was destroying had already passed into structure. I'm sure if we ask nicely he'll post it again, it was fairly well made at least. I'll let you in on a secret: I'm part of the Northern Coalition (Oh noes!) so in the video you should realize those are my allies he's killing, for the most part, which is why I know of him. You're really stretching to try and flame me, now.. Heh. I'm sure next you'll circle back around to "oh, he only got easy kills because he was killing solo ratters, etc, etc, etc". Maybe we should designate this a "Mark Hadden" thread, though I'm not sure I want to give him the satisfaction having a thread dedicated purely to him.
Xorv	Posted - 2010.09.16 08:32:00 - [412] Originally by: Rhadia If you want to know my personal opinion of the matter, it's always been my preference that Cloaks instead require a fuel source as their only limitation, making the danger of prolonged cloaked activity require a supply line back to a hub, or a a cloaky hauler (yes, bringing logistics into the equation as it should be) to supply the ships. Not really, but since you gave it... Seems like you now want to make Cloaking be yet another activity in EVE that either requires an alt account or being part of a big zerg alliance. Of course if you add to that a means to detect cloaked ships, it won't matter as pretty much no one will use them anyway. I must commend you though, for what you lack in wisdom, you seriously make up with persistence. Although, ultimately it's pointless, you won't convince anyone that doesn't already share your anti stealth pro zerg let us PvE in safety views, but please continue if it makes you feel better. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Originally by: Xorv - Double Sigh - As has been said over and over and over again, all these "problems" you list are a result of you having super easy intel via Local Chat. Which is itself unbalanced. Stop. Local and afk cloaking are two entirely separate issues, and having one does not justify the other. Pray tell how they're "entirely separate issues" when afk cloaking is a direct counter strategy to Local Chat Intel? I mean seriously that's a ridiculous statement. PS. Hadden, having now read in this thread of your ill deeds upon the zergers up North you are now my EVE hero of the week! PSS. Remove Local Chat!
Lemmy Kravitz	Posted - 2010.09.16 09:18:00 - [413] Edited by: Lemmy Kravitz on 16/09/2010 09:22:15 Don't touch the cloak just make a Destroyer only probe launcher with destroyer only probes that can scan down cloaked ships like you would scan down normal ships. cloaked ships will eventually show up like normal ships except for under shiptype and other vital information it will always say unknown. In busy systems it will be hard, just like normal combat probing, but with enough persistance if the dude is truely AFK cloaked in a safespot and you want to spend the time probing him down be my guest. AFK cloakers deserve to be podded for being AFK in a safespot anyways, just like anyone who is AFK in a safespot in hostile territory. And to those that scream my idea is a horrible idea, it would break cloaks. Try probing down a pilot who's at the computer jumping around different safe spots, it's near impossible. (unless the guy is a noob and uses only two spots, which will get him probed, tackled and podded with some effort.) When you have a war going on in highsec with WT's in system, or if you're out in lowsec, or 0.0 let's see a show of hands of people who think it's actually a good idea to warp to a safe spot in a hostile system and just walk away from your computer for a couple of hours without out a cloak. All other ways aside from this destroyer only probe idea of mine. Nerf the crap out of the cloak. I like the way the cloak works it works fine, don't touch it. well.. maybe make it so you can break lock by cloaking. but either way. With a destroyer only probe launcher, the only people that get punished are morons that think it's safe 100% to go AFK out in space, in eve.
Lemmy Kravitz	Posted - 2010.09.16 10:08:00 - [414] I've Been saying the same thing for the past year over and over again and not once has anyone said squat about my idea. And I know why, cause it makes to much sense.
Mark Hadden Amarr Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.09.16 11:43:00 - [415] Originally by: Rhadia AFK at a gate. Wait for the camp to get bored and leave then slip through. If enemy gets persistant, start using a scout (Mark Hadden has very expensive Purifiers). Scout checks gate. If there's a camp? Go afk again (Scout is either a cloaky, fast enough to get away/reapproach, or is a cheap throwaway). Check again? If the camp is still there, repeat previous steps. Camp is gone. Slip through, set up in system. Wait in system for a while (afk, usually, unless scouting potential targets). lol, do I have any alternatives to afking and waiting till you leave? Its a simple reaction to any gatecamp to sit it out and then pass. Originally by: Rhadia If anyone does respond to the attack, Hadden not only knows far in advance if they're coming, but also is able to warp before they even manage to land. yes, I figured out how its working. Like any other pilot flying other ships will be card to catch if he knows whats he's doing. What you ask for is for a nerf of an entire class of ships only because of few people knowing to use it to its full extent. Originally by: Rhadia He was, in essence, unable to be caught/killed unless we devoted such incredible amounts of time JUST to catch him. just stop being that obsessive carebear and go roam or something. I was in many regions of eve and yours was the most bitterly camped and blobbed, which gives me the satisfaction camp your systems. I'm in an active campaign right now and dont have the time to sit in your systems, but once its over, I'll consider doing that again, this time eventually both your systems + a third cheap scout T1 frigate I'm skilling right now on one of my 5 accounts :-DD Originally by: Rhadia Using his method of attack he has total control of the situation at all times- Sure, the ratting ship can attack him back- But usually the target's fate was decided by the time a lock was established, not to mention the time it then takes for drones to reach him. yes, it would be bad if you would control the situation. I know, its a desired vision to be in full control of your space and blobbing every single soul disturbing your ratting activities. But fortunately its not that way.
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.16 15:11:00 - [416] Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion Irrelevant, the issue is 100% or close enough safety for pilots. Both the station and the POS provide that. It's not irrelevant. That's information you're giving to the enemy that the cloaky ship is not. You also can't dock or warp to a pos in any old system as there isn't a friendly one in every system. You are just as safe in a cloaky ship in a safe spot as someone in a station is, only you can still probe out and gather intel, and it works in every system. That's a huge disparity. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion Irrelevant cause said cloaking pilot is not afk which is your gripe. You said nothing about them being afk in your previous post. Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion Again irrelevant for the same reason. What a tw@t you are, BTW. When somebody says, "cloaking ships are paper thin" you run to "oh I'm only complaining about afk cloaking" but when somebody says, POS, station you immediately run to activities for a non-afk cloaking ship. Make up your fking mind or GTFO. Cloaky ships are paper thin. They can also choose their fights to make sure that wafer thinness is never an issue. I think that's fairly well balanced. That's my stance on their combat abilities. What I don't think is balanced is being able to head to a safe spot and not have to be defensive in any way, for as long as you want, while forcing every enemy there to be on their toes constantly and having no means of getting back at you. Psychological warfare is fine, but not without any risk. Originally by:** Nahkep Narmelion And yet guys like the invincible Mark Hadden and you die in cloaking ships. Everyone messes up sometimes. But I'm sure you'll find good stealth bombers generally have 95% or higher efficiency, which no one else is going to have if they do any sort of pvp outside of roams. ...in bed.
Torothanax	Posted - 2010.09.16 15:21:00 - [417] Edited by: Torothanax on 16/09/2010 15:22:50 If you want to disrupt ratting/industry, bring a fleet that can handle the defenders, or bring a highly mobile roam fleet and don't stick around long enough to get caught. If you want unlimited intel gathering, plant a spy. This crap with one person sticking a cloaked alt in a hostile system until a worth while target of oppertunity thier corp/alliance/whatever has the man power to gank is lame and unbalanced. It takes a lot of work to claim space. It should take the same or more to disrupt it. No one should be able to safely afk in space. No ship should be completely invisible to all forms of detection.
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.16 15:29:00 - [418] Just dropping by, to say how much I'm loving this thread. Carry on. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.09.16 16:08:00 - [419] Originally by: Torothanax If you want to disrupt ratting/industry, bring a fleet that can handle the defenders, or bring a highly mobile roam fleet and don't stick around long enough to get caught. If you want unlimited intel gathering, plant a spy. no. You're wrong. 0.0 space is too safe already. Originally by: Torothanax This crap with one person sticking a cloaked alt in a hostile system until a worth while target of oppertunity thier corp/alliance/whatever has the man power to gank is lame and unbalanced. It takes a lot of work to claim space. It should take the same or more to disrupt it. no. btw. cloakers dont disrupt sov. Originally by: Torothanax No one should be able to safely afk in space. No ship should be completely invisible to all forms of detection. of course, one should.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.16 16:39:00 - [420] Originally by: Mark Hadden just stop being that obsessive carebear and go roam or something. I was in many regions of eve and yours was the most bitterly camped and blobbed, which gives me the satisfaction camp your systems. I'm in an active campaign right now and dont have the time to sit in your systems, but once its over, I'll consider doing that again, this time eventually both your systems + a third cheap scout T1 frigate I'm skilling right now on one of my 5 accounts :-DD I love how you repeatedly pretend to know who I am. You'd need a lot more than 2 alts to camp even just my alliance Sov Space, and to be honest... if you keep fitting your bombers as ridiculously expensive as you do, I can't say I care if you do eventually figure out where I am. Blatantly threatening some random forum alt isn't going to make your epeen look any bigger, so try to stick to the subject or go elsewhere. If you can't handle an argument without making threats, you need to revise your tactics, because it makes you look incapable of being civilized.

Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.16 16:55:00 - [421] Nothing wrong with cloaks, but I'm loving this thread so far. Carry on. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Mark Hadden Amarr Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.09.16 17:21:00 - [422] Originally by: Rhadia I love how you repeatedly pretend to know who I am. You'd need a lot more than 2 alts to camp even just my alliance Sov Space, and to be honest...8 BCA - Black Core Alliance Main system 85-B with a station, a neighbour system YZ- is carebeared and upgrade also. You only have those 2 ****ty systems and whine about cloaks because you rent only those 2. Why I know this? Because what you describe, applies to their behavior very exactly, no one other alliance/place.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.16 17:55:00 - [423] Sadly... No. Even your intel about BCA is wrong, though I don't think I'll gratify you with what you want to know. Though I admit your guessing game will be fun for your weird following that has spawned here, you're not going to get far naming off random members of the DekCoalition.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.16 18:17:00 - [424] Edited by: Rhadia on 16/09/2010 18:21:40 Edited by: Rhadia on 16/09/2010 18:20:08 Originally by: Xorv Originally by: Rhadia If you want to know my personal opinion of the matter, it's always been my preference that Cloaks instead require a fuel source as their only limitation, making the danger of prolonged cloaked activity require a supply line back to a hub, or a a cloaky hauler (yes, bringing logistics into the equation as it should be) to supply the ships. Not really, but since you gave it... Seems like you now want to make Cloaking be yet another activity in EVE that either requires an alt account or being part of a big zerg alliance. Of course if you add to that a means to detect cloaked ships, it won't matter as pretty much no one will use them anyway. Considering most people will probably end up using an alt for AFKing, they'll be running out alts fairly quickly if they've got to use one to supply the small amount of fuel, anyways. Also, I don't see how covert activity would ever require "a big zerg alliance". Last I checked, Cloaking is one of the few effective tactics in this game that doesn't require a large number of people to function properly, meaning the logistics of providing fuel to long term cloaked operators would be a small task easily managed by a single blockade runner (giving them another viable use). Stealth Bombers that would wish to carry multiple bombs in their cargo would have to sacrifice space for fuel, or be forced to do shorter operations. The small CovOps ships would have a negligible fuel cost considering I always intended a fuel cost to be based upon ship size, regardless. The proposition is passive, easy to alter so that long term cloaking isn't altered significantly, and even promotes and introduces a new role for transports to function along side a fleet of CovOps/Recons other than carting bombs/torps. The intention is not to make one playstyle obsolete, but simply to make it mortal- and in addition provide a new role to be fulfilled by other players further promoting teamwork in Eve, even in Covert Operations. Mark Hadden would still be able to hunt carebears, and very little would change- There would simply be a little more thought as to how long you were going to remain in one location without resupply, which is reasonable enough.
Earthan Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2010.09.16 20:58:00 - [425] Interesting idea with fuel for cloaks. I still think my idea about some kind of captcha every 30 m,inutes of cloaking would solve the whole afk locking system lame tactic (i also used it in past:) ).If you dont enter correctly captcha during next 10 minutes within 10 tries , you decloak. No change to any other existing gameplay whatsover.
Rhadia	Posted - 2010.09.16 21:13:00 - [426] Originally by: Earthan Interesting idea with fuel for cloaks. I still think my idea about some kind of captcha every 30 m,inutes of cloaking would solve the whole afk locking system lame tactic (i also used it in past:) ).If you dont enter correctly captcha during next 10 minutes within 10 tries , you decloak. No change to any other existing gameplay whatsover. Yes, but that also totally breaks immersion as well by introducing an outside source of security in-game. Better form of an implementation like that would simply be a log-out timer that most games implement, but that is easily avoided using the most basic types of external programs.
Brandrsun Caldari	Posted - 2010.09.16 22:06:00 - [427] not again. /cloaks up I'm not here. You didnt see me. This never happend. And dont forget to dock up cause I'm an invisable threat.
GoGo Rens	Posted - 2010.09.21 12:47:00 - [428] how does somebody whos afk stop you doing anything?
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.09.21 13:56:00 - [429] Edited by: Robert Caldera on 21/09/2010 13:56:45 Originally by: GoGo Rens how does somebody whos afk stop you doing anything? its how psy warfare works. You could be not afk once a day and kill someone.
Illrean	Posted - 2010.09.21 18:25:00 - [430] Not all that big a PvPer, but everyone keeps going on about how they want to blow up everyone elses ship. Therefor wouldn't a way to find someone who is, in fact, way AFK sitting undocked and cloaked in a system to blow his ass up be something you would want?



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