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Give us the TOOLS to defeat CLOAKY GRIEFERS!!

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darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:26:00 - [241] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I can see where you are going. But even superhuman PvP ers like you really cannot defend the indefensible. When someone cloaks up in a system where there are POS's etc and decides to stay hidden for the duration of the day. (Day after day..) he has only nuisance value. This as you well know is the definition of a "Cloaky Griefer.." he cloaks he's there to grief. It works, OMG Quote: miners cannot mine you can organise guards for your miners? falcons/arazu next to them e.g. Quote: ratters cannot rat, etc etc. you can fit your ships properly? ratting in pvp ships works very well. Quote: It may suprise you but not everyone is in 0.0 to PvP additionally, corps rarely have all their guys on at the same times.. This doesnt mean you can live in 0.0 like it would be highsec and it never ever should be like that. Quote: There are varying levels of PvP capability and defence or offense and take a snapshot of any corp any time and it's rarely all the guys are there to do.. (Well do what? - Warp about the system shouting "I have cheese!" at the Griefer?)trying to bait him? Thats not his job is it? We cannot find him but only because none of us has a skillset that allows us to eventually disclose his position. You dont have to know his position, at his current position/situation he cant do anything to you beyond looking at you. he is cloaked. he cant activate any modules or so Quote: We cannot blob him. Fixed it for you. The thing is pretty simple. be prepared to fight or run all the time. especially in 0.0. If the cloaked guy can harm you, you can harm him. Now go and prepare. (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.)
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:27:00 - [242] Originally by: Aessoroz Originally by: Rajheen Orlox My thread drew attention from the trolls such as yourself and got some attention a lot of you didnt want to see coming this way. Your defence of a unbalanced game mechanic (The only UNDEFENDABLE mechanich in the game BTW..) is failing more than mine. I'll contact you when they drop the indefinite hidey trick and we'll see how your making isk then? CCP please redress the Cloaky Griefer imbalance. Raj. I want to have you set red so so so badly. Oh Yawn! Raj.
Jack Gilligan Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:30:00 - [243] Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 02/09/2010 17:31:04 IMHO, the best way to deal with the AFK cloaky situation is twofold... There needs to be a hard limit on how long you can stay logged in, yet completely inactive (ie: not doing anything at all). 60 minutes maximum, I'd like it set to 30 minutes. This would also be a good thing as it would reduce wasted resources on the server. There should be some sort of scanning mechanism available to the sovereignty holder to locate anyone within their systems. This should be limited, however, as to not be an "Iwin" button, but it should be there. I'd suggest that a timer be used, where a cloaker who is not a member of the sov holding entity enter a system where their cloak is 100% invulnerable to detection by a system scanner for the first 30 minutes they are in the system. That resistance, however, decays at a rate of 25% every half hour that they remain in the system and do not invoke agression (ie: engages in a fight). The cloak would not itself deactivate, but upon reaching zero (after 2 hours of sitting in a system and not engaging in a fight) the scanner has a 100% chance of providing a warp in on their location. Engaging in a fight resets resistance to 100% and once again gives them 30 minutes of 100% undetectability. This would allow an ACTIVE cloaky gang or solo fighter the ability to remain cloaked while actually engaging in fights but not the ability to AFK forever with no consequence. Cloaking harassment would even still be possible, IF the pilot is active and constantly changing location (ie: jumping safe spots to avoid getting warped onto), or by in taking "potshots" at targets to get agression and reset their resistance to 100% every half hour, or to simply leave the system and return. The idea is to reward activity and penalize inactivity, while requiring that cloakers do something to "earn" their resistance. I think this is the mechanism by which to do this, the timers can be quibbled with but at least it allows stealth gangs to operate but provides benefits to owning space.
Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:31:00 - [244] OP is clueless, resorts to personal attacks when proven wrong and ignores all the valid and very workable solutions. If mods don't close the thread for extensive trolling by OP like i reported, just stop feeding the troll and hope he dies off. Originally by: Freyya QUoting again just in case you missed my post just now or are willfully ignoring it. Also fixed link since my linking skills failed @ page 3 bye griefer Originally by: Freyya Edited by: Freyya on 02/09/2010 14:57:24 Originally by: Rajheen Orlox All those clever sh+ts and not ONE of them can actually come up with a way to defeat a Cloaking Griefer (Reveal his position, trap him, kill him..) 1 Billion isk to the person who can reveal a determined Cloaky Griefer succesfully time after time.. Raj. Ok, you keep changing the rules; 1st it was a way to reveal the cloaker, now it's time after time again. Anyways, send me my bill as i linked a killmail on page 3 that shows you how to do it. null Grief the griefer Provide a juicy target which he knows he can take or escape if it goes wrong, cloak a bomber next to it, wait till he makes a funrun or actually engages and shoot the crap out of him. If he doesn't take the bait after several belts/whatever then he's actually afk and thus nothing to worry about at that time. What also helps is to then have a few friends in system and this bit is important; They are ratting in PVP TANKED SHIPS INSTEAD OF YOUR COOKY CUTTER NPC FITS and can warp (stay in same fleet) in whenever sh+t hits the fan. They are making isk and are on standby in case. That's 2 ways to reveal, trap and kill a cloaker. Now i'm not greedy but i'll take the 1 bil instead of 2 for 2 ways to do it. Those solutions work every time after time so put up or shut up. The ball is now in your court. /me starts to wait on several more excuses to avoid putting up. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:31:00 - [245] Originally by: darius mclever (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.) Darius bud, they can't mine or rat solo. Shocking state of affairs tbh. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Hauling Hal	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:33:00 - [246] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: Hauling Hal Raj, You keep stating that you can't beat a cloaky griefer, but the point is a cloaky giefer can't do anything to you 'AS HE IS CLOAKED'. Now, when he decloaks he can attack you, so your point now is that you get killed by someone that decloaks. Funnily enough, it is possible to kill someone that decloaks and some of us have ships setup specifically to do that. Please quit trying to justfiy your 'opinion' as fact, as the only likely outcome is that half the people reading this get a cloaking ship before heading to a locator agent. Oh thats like saying that an alliance in a station has no potential for damage. That argument is weak and starts at the premise that Mr. Cloaky Griefer has to reveal himself in front of you in range and in a easy poppable ship. So unless the situation exactly meets your criteria, where it often does NOT. Then situan Foobar. eh? Go figure. Raj. But you aren't complaining about docked pilots, so 'potential to do damage' isn't the issue. if it was you would be complaining about: Docked pilots, Cloaked Pilots, Logged out pilots. I am still trying to work out what you are actually complaining about, only I can't.
Mithius Fear Minmatar Ricdic Is Not Suitably Edible New Eden Research.	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:34:00 - [247] Basically the OP is in dangerous space. He can't defend it so he is blaming perma cloaking. He will be back in highsec in no time
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:39:00 - [248] Originally by: darius mclever Fixed it for you. ------No you just dribbled------------------- The thing is pretty simple. be prepared to fight or run all the time. especially in 0.0. If the cloaked guy can harm you, you can harm him. Now go and prepare. (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.) he may not harm just me.. maybe he's out to harm a mining fleet with a hot drop? Of say fifty odd ships the odd dreadnought perhaps. Oh yeah I'm ready for that.. Me an my corp. Realistically your argument doesn't hold warm water pal and doesnt solve a real imbalance in the game that is not being currently addressed by CCP. But thats why I'm here aint it? Happy days. Raj.
Myz Toyou APOCALYPSE LEGION	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:39:00 - [249] Originally by: AFK Cloaker Point on AFK Cloaker, someone help me in belt IX-3, need more dps !!!!!!
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:45:00 - [250] Originally by: Myz Toyou Originally by: AFK Cloaker Point on AFK Cloaker, someone help me in belt IX-3, need more dps !!!!!! He is not AFK at all he lied to us! CCP help! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:45:00 - [251] Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: darius mclever Fixed it for you. ------No you just dribbled------------------- The thing is pretty simple. be prepared to fight or run all the time. especially in 0.0. If the cloaked guy can harm you, you can harm him. Now go and prepare. (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.) he may not harm just me.. maybe he's out to harm a mining fleet with a hot drop? Of say fifty odd ships the odd dreadnought perhaps. Oh yeah I'm ready for that.. Me an my corp. Realistically your argument doesn't hold warm water pal and doesnt solve a real imbalance in the game that is not being currently addressed by CCP. But thats why I'm here aint it? Happy days. Raj. Check your evegate since you're not in game.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:45:00 - [252] Originally by: Freyya bye griefer Ok, you keep changing the rules; 1st it was a way to reveal the cloaker, now it's time after time again. Anyways, send me my bill as i linked a killmail on page 3 that shows you how to do it. null Grief the griefer Provide a juicy target which he knows he can take or escape if it goes wrong, cloak a bomber next to it, wait till he makes a funrun or actually engages and shoot the crap out of him. If he doesn't take the bait after several belts/whatever then he's actually afk and thus nothing to worry about at that time. What also helps is to then have a few friends in system and this bit is important; They are ratting in PVP TANKED SHIPS INSTEAD OF YOUR COOKY CUTTER NPC FITS and can warp (stay in same fleet) in whenever sh+t hits the fan. They are making isk and are on standby in case. That's 2 ways to reveal, trap and kill a cloaker. Now i'm not greedy but i'll take the 1 bil instead of 2 for 2 ways to do it. Those solutions work every time after time so put up or shut up. The ball is now in your court. /me starts to wait on several more excuses to avoid putting up. A single killmail is not proof of a tactic that works to reveal and entrap and kill any Cloaky griefer. Whine all you like but by default your "Tactic" relies on the Cloaky Griefer just giving himself up to you or being revealed by accident. Because there is no tactic that will "FORCE" him to decloak is there? Try harder, repeating what you said earlier wins no points. And importantly no "one.." yes that's 1 Billion isk either. Raj.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:49:00 - [253] Originally by: Mag's Originally by: darius mclever (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.) Darius bud, they can't mine or rat solo. Shocking state of affairs tbh. Oh, would that be solo with the potential from an enemy hotdrop? Wow you must be good, tell me, how can you afford to lose so many ships one after the other? Come on do tell were all waiting to hear you can detect undetectable ships and tell if theyre hot dropping or just Griefing? (Holds hand to ear to hear.. silence..) Raj.
DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:50:00 - [254] Originally by: darius mclever Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I can see where you are going. But even superhuman PvP ers like you really cannot defend the indefensible. When someone cloaks up in a system where there are POS's etc and decides to stay hidden for the duration of the day. (Day after day..) he has only nuisance value. This as you well know is the definition of a "Cloaky Griefer.." he cloaks he's there to grief. It works, OMG Quote: miners cannot mine you can organise guards for your miners? falcons/arazu next to them e.g. Quote: ratters cannot rat, etc etc. you can fit your ships properly? ratting in pvp ships works very well. Quote: It may suprise you but not everyone is in 0.0 to PvP additionally, corps rarely have all their guys on at the same times.. This doesnt mean you can live in 0.0 like it would be highsec and it never ever should be like that. Quote: There are varying levels of PvP capability and defence or offense and take a snapshot of any corp any time and it's rarely all the guys are there to do.. (Well do what? - Warp about the system shouting "I have cheese!" at the Griefer?)trying to bait him? Thats not his job is it? We cannot find him but only because none of us has a skillset that allows us to eventually disclose his position. You dont have to know his position, at his current position/situation he cant do anything to you beyond looking at you. he is cloaked. he cant activate any modules or so Quote: We cannot blob him. Fixed it for you. The thing is pretty simple. be prepared to fight or run all the time. especially in 0.0. If the cloaked guy can harm you, you can harm him. Now go and prepare. (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.) Ok from now on this is what i will quote for you Raj, I could not have responded better. Griefing Cloaker LOL. Please stop RAJ you are looking like a WOW player everytime you post
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:51:00 - [255] Originally by: Hauling Hal But you aren't complaining about docked pilots, so 'potential to do damage' isn't the issue. if it was you would be complaining about: Docked pilots, Cloaked Pilots, Logged out pilots. I am still trying to work out what you are actually complaining about, only I can't. I think the words you are groping for are "I won't." Raj.
Kassar Temuja	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:51:00 - [256] Raj, Please log in to Eve at once. KT Alliance Consigliere
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:52:00 - [257] Edited by: Mag''s on 02/09/2010 17:54:47 Originally by: Rajheen Orlox Originally by: darius mclever Post. he may not harm just me.. maybe he's out to harm a mining fleet with a hot drop? Of say fifty odd ships the odd dreadnought perhaps. Oh yeah I'm ready for that.. Me an my corp. Realistically your argument doesn't hold warm water pal and doesnt solve a real imbalance in the game that is not being currently addressed by CCP. But thats why I'm here aint it? Happy days. Raj. So your counter argument is... But, but, what about the hotdrop? Edit: Originally by: Kassar Temuja Raj, Please log in to Eve at once. KT Alliance Consigliere Ooh someone's in trouble me thinks. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Rajheen Orlox Gallente Vogon Construction Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:56:00 - [258] Originally by: Mithius Fear Basically the OP is in dangerous space. He can't defend it so he is blaming perma cloaking. He will be back in highsec in no time You couldnt predict for peanuts sonny.. :) Most of my chars life has been spent in 0.0.. I'm not actually scared you know... You people seem to think my char is me lol. i'm a real person really. I dont confuse him with me. His game is important to me though as it costs me real cash. I wont have it spoiled by unbalanced abilities in the game. :) Raj.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:59:00 - [259] Quote: His game is important to me though as it costs me real cash. One would think you would strive to get competent at playing it then. Isn't it time for you to go? I think someone is tired of you making your outfit look inept. 07 Shout out to DNS. Well played and see you next time through. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
DNSSauce	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:01:00 - [260] Originally by: DNSBLACK Originally by: darius mclever Originally by: Rajheen Orlox I can see where you are going. But even superhuman PvP ers like you really cannot defend the indefensible. When someone cloaks up in a system where there are POS's etc and decides to stay hidden for the duration of the day. (Day after day..) he has only nuisance value. This as you well know is the definition of a "Cloaky Griefer.." he cloaks he's there to grief. It works, OMG Quote: miners cannot mine you can organise guards for your miners? falcons/arazu next to them e.g. Quote: ratters cannot rat, etc etc. you can fit your ships properly? ratting in pvp ships works very well. Quote: It may suprise you but not everyone is in 0.0 to PvP additionally, corps rarely have all their guys on at the same times.. This doesnt mean you can live in 0.0 like it would be highsec and it never ever should be like that. Quote: There are varying levels of PvP capability and defence or offense and take a snapshot of any corp any time and it's rarely all the guys are there to do.. (Well do what? - Warp about the system shouting "I have cheese!" at the Griefer?)trying to bait him? Thats not his job is it? We cannot find him but only because none of us has a skillset that allows us to eventually disclose his position. You dont have to know his position, at his current position/situation he cant do anything to you beyond looking at you. he is cloaked. he cant activate any modules or so Quote: We cannot blob him. Fixed it for you. The thing is pretty simple. be prepared to fight or run all the time. especially in 0.0. If the cloaked guy can harm you, you can harm him. Now go and prepare. (just one week without cloak whine from nc pets.... just one week.) Ok from now on this is what i will quote for you Raj, I could not have responded better. Griefing Cloaker LOL. Please stop RAJ you are looking like a WOW player everytime you post Imbalanced game mechanics LOL.
Mithius Fear Minmatar Ricdic Is Not Suitably Edible New Eden Research.	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:01:00 - [261] Quote: he may not harm just me.. maybe he's out to harm a mining fleet with a hot drop? Of say fifty odd ships the odd dreadnought perhaps. Oh yeah I'm ready for that.. Me an my corp. see theres your problem. You CANT defend the space your in. It is NOT your space at all. Simply Yours to defend. If they drop 50 ships then you drop 100. If they drop 100 then you drop 200. The side that beats the other will then have the right to try and defend that space. If that is not you then highsec it is. Covops are used extensivly in 0.0 and a perma cloak is needed for many types of ops with every single 0.0 alliance uses to protect their space and or gain more space. Why should I lose the ability to perma cloak sat on an enemy POS reporting back to my alliance enemy fleet makeups so you can mine/rat in space you so clearly should not be in? How do you know that perma cloaker is in your system for another reason?
Kassar Temuja	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:05:00 - [262] Raj, If you a man, log in to Eve and prepare for outprocessing. KT Alliance Consigliere
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:19:00 - [263] Originally by: Kassar Temuja Raj, If you a man, log in to Eve and prepare for outprocessing. KT Alliance Consigliere Bolded the funny parts. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Sebastian Hoch	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:20:00 - [264] I have not seen anyone point out the most obvious tactic to counter an afk cloaker and that is by ratting/mining in a system that they are not in. I have logged a lot of hours in my SB in the last month, but I have been unable to go AFK in more than one system at a time, or to move to a new system while AFK. Any tips from veteran AFK'rs would be welcome. /snark
Kassar Temuja	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:34:00 - [265] Posters: Courtesy Notice Please do not bother baiting the OP. He has been taken into custody and will not be posting further on this thread. w/r KT FA Consigliere
Etrias Jhozah Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:42:00 - [266] Dear Raj, Welcome to the F&ID forum. You may wonder why this post got moved here. Well, to put it mildly, it's because there's been a metric ****-ton of similar posts made and on occasion, people actually talk proposals to fix problems. Posturing and chest banging here, much like you'd find on COAD, doesn't get as much mileage. If you'll do a quick search of just this forum, you'll notice that this very topic has been beaten into the ground so many times, it has tired of becoming the zombie topic that wouldn't die. And you don't even have an idea to fix your perceived problem. Your argument has pretty severe logic problems. Problem one: AFK and ganker do not mix. They are either AFK (stands for away from keyboard if you didn't know before) and no threat to you or ganking...which as far as I know, perfectly fine. Cloaking AFK harms no one, ganking requires you turn off the cloak module. Not sure what you think the problem is. Problem two: you've only defined that cloaky gankers are a problem to you, not something systemic with the game itself. In fact, bringing up you lost an expensive ship to a cloaky ganker probably hurts your argument. You know the old adage, don't fly what you can't afford to lose...because you will. I've lost count of how many people who have posted in the thread and said "you're doing it wrong". I would agree with them. The counter that works is likely something you and your corp is unwilling to do. Problem three: this doesn't help. An earlier quote from you: "the game is unalanced [sic] for those of us who can do nothing against them." And so there you go. You've defined the problem as yourself...that you can't handle the problem, not that the problem itself isn't solvable. If cloaky ganking really bothers you, I'd advise you to stay away from wormholes. If you can't defend a system with an active local channel popping up everyone who steps into the system, then you'll likely rage-quit when you get popped by the cloaks you had no idea were in your system. Anyway, this is a non-problem and you haven't even come up with any suggestion to fix it. You could try, of course, but judging from your previous posts (a lot in one day, I've got to say...lot's of free time on your hands it seems), I'm guessing you'll continue your trend of insults and the thread will get locked eventually from your incessant trolling. Good day.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:44:00 - [267] Originally by: Kassar Temuja Posters: Courtesy Notice Please do not bother baiting the OP. He has been taken into custody and will not be posting further on this thread. w/r KT FA Consigliere Thank you!:)
Leaving Eve Send Your Stuff To Me	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:45:00 - [268] Edited by: Leaving Eve on 02/09/2010 18:45:38 As you seem to be in the process of being kicked from your corp/alliance. Maybe you are also Leaving Eve. You can contract any items and send all your ISK to me. Kind regards. CEO of Send Your Stuff To Me Corp. Edit: In-game mail sent.
Scott Ryder Amarr art of eve Gunmen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:47:00 - [269] On the other hand Raj wont have to worry about cloakers any more In highsec cloakers wont hurt you
Kassar Temuja	Posted - 2010.09.02 18:48:00 - [270] Ladies and Gentlemen: The OP will not be posting further on this or any other topic. The opinions expressed by the OP do not reflect the policy positions of Fatal Ascension. Please do not expect any further replies from the OP or from any representative of FA. w/r KT Fatal Ascension Consigliere

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