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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 19 post(s) |
Mitchello
B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:41:00 -
[1081]
Edited by: Mitchello on 24/06/2011 02:44:03
At times like these, it is very easy to circle the wagons - and very understandably too. But all that does, is reinforce opionated convictions through repetitive messaging of desired statements and affirmations.
That is human nature. It applies to customers, it applies to CCP.
Stepping over that, is hard, but a must. And ultimately rewarding.
I fear tomorrow's message is going to take the exact wrong angle, with the same arguments as stated before (which mean nothing in light of all the statements by staff and its CEO of "if we have to, we will go slower, but we will continue because we do not want to be left behind") with the wrong packaging of non-committal statements which do not address the cost in currencies of belief and trust.
Not just product development depends on those I should add, but something far more important: brand integrity. As that is what enables good people in a good enterprise to conquer the world.
I strongly suggest, a delay, to digest and study the feedback in all of EVE's communities.
Just do the math, see the timeline. From that case, to this thread, to tomorrow? That is a near reflexive response under duress by default. Not a well tailored and targeted response - there has not been any time whatsoever to digest, rethink and evaluate internal and external feedback.
The job of a CEO is to connect the dots. Each dot, is an amalgam of resources and information and processes. Each of these needs to be validated. Without that, the wrong dots are connected incorrectly, and companies fall prey to processes of self validation.
So please, delay tomorrow. Be clear, communicate, but do not take the stand until the due diligence has been done. The E3 stage, is incomparable to the stages here, and in the mean time the mainstream industry is watching.
INCARNA. EXPERT HOUSING, QUARTER STYLE, New Eden's Blue Lagoon. Coming Soon.
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Pedro Carnicero
Amarr
Hartes Beton
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:41:00 -
[1082]
Oh.my.god.
My raid0 (yeah im stupid ) crashed a few days ago and im still trying to rescue data.
Just thought it would be nice to come to the forums to look how things are going with incarna and all that useless stuff that comes with it,
while Im waiting for my harddisks to blow up.
And then I found that newsletter. And a threadnought. And this (soon to be) threadnought.
Its sad. Just to read the title of the document. It just...well...it just says all what has to be said.
Its sad. Because you promised not to do what you now intend to do.
Its sad. To see how this game is being nuked from orbit (remember?)
Its sad. To see how some devs really think about the community. That newsletter made it clear.
Its sad. To see them wanting to charge us "for the swimming goggles".
Its sad. To see Soundwave wanting to charge us for more fitting storage. That, sir, indeed makes you "******" (using your own words).
Its sad. Because the game was great. The last weeks just showed me: Everything comes to an end.
Its sad. Because my subscription ends in 2 weeks, and I dont think I will renew.
And btw: Its sad. Because I cant remember when my last English lesson was (few years?) 
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Indorian
Pure Evil Warriors
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:42:00 -
[1083]
 Originally by: General Xenophon
I just need to say it's ridiculously fail for a company to release a patch that simply lets you walk around in 1 room, buy a couple useless items for super high RL cash prices, among other stupid mindless features, and manage to not only **** off the majority of their playerbase in one form or another, but completely fail in implementing the most simple of game concepts since the very first 3rd person view character style games ever created.
Way to re-invent the wheel, mutate it, and completely break the most simple parts of a game.
Well done CCP.
You do realize CCP uses STAGED RELEASES now.. right? Like there is MORE to Incarna then just CQ and Turrets?....http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536144 is a link detailing my view on your, and people like you, short sightedness
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Silver Night
Caldari
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:42:00 -
[1084]
Edited by: Silver Night on 24/06/2011 02:42:22
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: CCP Pann
The newsletter was not fake. I guess this is how it feels when someone reads your diary, something you hadn't intended anyone else to see.
FWIW I have worked in IT support, ISP T2/T3, real estate, big govt contracting, and all organisations big enough for an HR department have this kind of thing. It's a combination sounding-board, rage/venting mechanism, black humour repository and means for colleagues to triangulate their world views in much the same way you'd use two mountain tops at 90¦ to get a better reading on where you are on this little map.
I've said it before, especially on #tweetfleet, the stuff in that newsletter should be treated as trolling. The same as any post you see on FHC, 4chan, or somethingawful. There is some truth in everything, but sometimes you need to blow things up to extremes in order to figure out what it is that niggles you about a particular idea.
The appropriate way to take part in this discussion is not "OMGWTFBBQ CCP R RAPIN UR WALLIT" spam all over forums and twitter and FHC and Massively and anyone who will give you the time of day.
The appropriate way to take part in this discussion is to talk about what the limits for virtual item sales are. Is it acceptable to sell ships (HELL NO). Is it acceptable to sell monocles (OK). Is it acceptable to trade one ship for the same thing in a different colour? What about a small-run BPC for that same different-colour ship?
What about a trade-in or BPC for a ship that has the same stats and prereqs as a Dominix, but a different model? You know, so it doesn't look like a huge space potato? Would people pay ISK/Aurum/Dollars for that?
Spewing rage all over the forums is really poor form. Hopefully CCP can see the positive in this and realise that they really need to lift their game on communicating plans to the playerbase. Perhaps "Fearless" needs to become a player-facing publication alongside devblogs? At least this way CSM won't be bound by NDA, players get to have input long before any decisions are made, and CCP can become more transparent and fearless, as well as building an even tighter bond with their fanbase. We're not just players, after all. CCP are rockstar artists, and EVE Online is their greatest work ever, and we are their fanatical groupies.
How many of us fantasise about working at CCP to help build this game that we love? How much would we enjoy reading "Fearless" and pretending that we could be part of that culture, if only they'd give us the chance? (you know, the same way we read Gossip Daily and pretend that we'd be a much better partner for that model than the selfish coke-addled nitwit they're dating)
I could see this being pretty accurate. I posted earlier and said something somewhat similar - the Soundwave article has the look of something someone writes as an exercise in exploring the edge of a possible idea, not a policy document for the company.
Though as I said earlier, that still leaves Zinfandel.
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Silver's Fiction |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:42:00 -
[1085]
Yep... they try to come up with solution to redefine word "vanity" and feed it to us with well planned announcement tomorrow. Then they realize all they really said was lalalalalalalalala.
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Play with the best - die like the rest
starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
b1zz
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:42:00 -
[1086]
Originally by: Scoper's Alt
Originally by: Fi1ippo
Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere
Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?
If they did, how would it be any different from current system:
- Buy plex with real money
- Buy ready made character with purchased plex proceeds
- Buy awesome ship
?
I must be missing something.
I guess if they made the unique items only available to AURA customers...?
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Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:42:00 -
[1087]
Originally by: Kallynda Nai
Originally by: Miilla
EVE: The world's largest game UniPantyverse
Your posts are pretty terrible. You should probably stop.
For being terrible the one I posted in Yellow seems to be quite popular :)
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Republica Winder
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:43:00 -
[1088]
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 24/06/2011 00:36:49
Here's my big question that I demand an answer to.
Are you going to **** the EVE Online sandbox over for Monetary Transactions or not? If not, all is forgiven. If MTs are going to impact the sandbox, start printing your resumes and god help you all.
The designs we will implement in game will not **** over the sandbox.
Yes they will. Sandbox AND RMT ARE NOT COMPATIBLE.
Soon as things to into cash shops instead of blueprints EVE is broken.
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Kewso
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:43:00 -
[1089]
level 50 covops lfg for gurista raid
:P
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A Dysfunctional Playground |
Garreth Vlox
Minmatar
Blackened Skies
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:43:00 -
[1090]
Originally by: Poetic Stanziel
Originally by: Nedak Pather
WHY DO YOU PEOPLE GIVE A **** ABOUT VANITY ITEMS?
The problem isn't ****ing vanity items, it's about the fact that NON-VANITY items could potentially be bought using micro-transactions.
God damn people, get your priorities straight.
QFT!!
the second CCP make in-game non-vanity items available to buy in the new market i am canceling my last 3 toons and taking my money somewhere else.
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Lira Reib
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:43:00 -
[1091]
I don't really care about the rest, but client memory usage has doubled and CQ crashes frequently. Please test things before releasing them.
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:43:00 -
[1092]
Originally by: b1zz
I must be missing something.
Yes, it's called "the economy".
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Zverofaust
Gallente
Incompertus INC
Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:43:00 -
[1093]
Quote:
CCP has, apparently, reneged on earlier promises in regards to RMT. This isn't cool.
This.
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Keryth Sylvanus
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:43:00 -
[1094]
How about showing your customers.. The people who have helped you build this entire game.. The people who have helped you build your company and brand
SOME RESPECT
[Someone might wanna make this multicoloured and put it in HUGE text just so they don't miss it]
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Words Words Words
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:43:00 -
[1095]
Originally by: Zachstar
Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere
Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?
Yep got to ask that as well. Sorry CCP but we need an answer to this.
I very much look forward to the response tomorrow from CCP officially. I really ask that you do not try to play politics or run around the issue. Microtransactions for anything but vanity items will cause serious damage to your subscription levels in my opinion. And we need to know that CCP in not willing to go with microtranactions on anything but vanity items that do not affect gameplay.
Please do not say "minimal gameplay impact" or other BS.
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Caldari SpyGlass
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:44:00 -
[1096]
Edited by: Caldari SpyGlass on 24/06/2011 02:45:13
-posting in an alt-
I think the main issues for myself are:
1. The leaked document and its wording.. its assumptions of what customers think is offensive and the fact that this is an internal document creates the impression that CCP doesn't give a crap about its customers because it sees them as gullible walking wallets. Even for an internal document this is grossly unprofessional!, who ever wrote the document needs to be chewed out and taught to respect the customers!
2. The prices of the Nex (its too much)
3. Non-vanity items being sold via the Nex (it will break the player driven economy)
4. Charging 3rd parties to develop (its too much- if it has to be a token then make it $5..)
5. CQ was a grossly disappointing and misleading experience- simply it was over hyped for what it actually did.
6. We were lied to by CCP members and CSM was left out of the loop
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Smoogle
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:44:00 -
[1097]
CCP:
Your words mean nothing. People have linked a post from CCP saying that they had no plans for MT... and we can clearly see how true that was.
The playerbase will judge your actions, if you want to do damage control, do damage control. Talking isn't going to do it though, not anymore. If you treat the player base like mindless consumers, expect the same treatment in return: shopping around for the best value with no loyalty whatsoever. It's not an unreasonable response, I think. Maybe some other game comes out that's shinier, why should players display any loyalty to a company that cares only about money? I think your newsletter is a shining example of communication, as it certainly communicated a lot to me personally.
You are probably going to base microtransactions on one thing, AND ONE THING ONLY: what works. If thousands and thousands of players all pay 4 months of subscription time for monocles, then you'll do the only sane thing: release another monocle. I can't really blame you. If few use the system... well, I'm sure you'll think of something. I haven't actually decided how to respond myself, but I really only have one way to respond. One real way, anyway. Blathering on the forum is cheap, and very easily ignored.
You can pay attention, show loyalty, or not. It's up to you as a company, as it always has been. And the players can respond by putting their money where their mouths are, if their wants are ignored.
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Ivbeen Cloned
Caldari
Formidable Ops
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:44:00 -
[1098]
FYI He's not going to answer anymore unless you pay him some AUR
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Laserham Lincoln
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:44:00 -
[1099]
Originally by: b1zz
Originally by: Scoper's Alt
Originally by: Fi1ippo
Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere
Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?
If they did, how would it be any different from current system:
- Buy plex with real money
- Buy ready made character with purchased plex proceeds
- Buy awesome ship
?
I must be missing something.
I guess if they made the unique items only available to AURA customers...?
Because someone still has to mine the veldspar to make that awesome ship. It isn't conjured out of thin air.
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KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:44:00 -
[1100]
Originally by: b1zz
Originally by: Scoper's Alt
Originally by: Fi1ippo
Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere
Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?
If they did, how would it be any different from current system:
- Buy plex with real money
- Buy ready made character with purchased plex proceeds
- Buy awesome ship
?
I must be missing something.
I guess if they made the unique items only available to AURA customers...?
Because buying ships with PLEX > ISK means that that ship was made at some point by a player, from within the sandbox. Buying ships directly means that poof, it appears out of nowhere.
And how do we know at this point that ships won't be unique to NeX? These issues need to be addressed.
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Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Federation |
Mordrake
Freelance Economics Astrological resources
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:44:00 -
[1101]
Edited by: Mordrake on 24/06/2011 02:45:30
Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?
Follow up: How do you define a Vanity item?
The only question(s) that matter.
"Arte et Marte" |
Tali Ambraelle
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:44:00 -
[1102]
Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Kallynda Nai
Originally by: Miilla
EVE: The world's largest game UniPantyverse
Your posts are pretty terrible. You should probably stop.
For being terrible the one I posted in Yellow seems to be quite popular :)
1 Hit out of 12 misses isn't something to be proud of. Besides, I thought you quit? Get out already. Silly attention *****.
Also downsizing needlessly large text for a pointless whine.
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Gallinari
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:44:00 -
[1103]
I am willing to bet that the things said in that Newsletter are the same things said everyday at EVERY OTHER COMPANY in the industry...Just look at micro transactions throughout MMO's and even DLC on consoles.
I think people are just mad that all the dirty laundry has been leaked for once...
Regardless I am still enjoying EVE as much as I did 6 months ago.
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Silver Night
Caldari
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:45:00 -
[1104]
Being able to buy vanity items directly is different because it would mean that items never touched the player economy - they just generated magically, and ISK didn't change hands. Of course, you aren't alone in your confusion since apparently CCP Zinfandel doesn't understand this fairly basic economic issue with Eve either. (Though I believe he should be forgiven if he does come to understand it. Eve has that steep learning curve after all.)
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Silver's Fiction |
Republica Winder
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:45:00 -
[1105]
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Still reading. Didn't want the lack of my replies (some were actually kinda damn stupid) to make you think I'd left though.
Sending in PR flacks to take arrows for management is what is stupid.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:45:00 -
[1106]
Will be having Dust514 mercs to control sov be a vanity item too, CCP?
How many Dust514 players will subscribe to be our barbie dolls?
My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ |
Kurj Valdoria
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:45:00 -
[1107]
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Has soundwave been fired yet?
Will all future editions of 'Fearless' be released publicly?
Is there anything else you've lied to the playerbase about (MT for vanity ONLY) that we might like to know about?
Soundwave will NOT be fired nor should he. I personally would not like to see one of the driving forces behind the Alliance Tournament and the spiritual leader of Team BFF take a fall for agreeing to present one opposing side of the microtransaction debate in an internal newsletter.
Could you call it macro-transactions?
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Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:45:00 -
[1108]
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Originally by: Takishu
Damn, they bring us back the Ancients. Quote:
She's not THAT old.
ohh mann... seriously... I normally like humourus dev responses but there is a time and place and this really isn't it.
We are ****ed as hell ad jokes are going to make it worse... I thought you guys worked in PR?
--------
By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig.
Support Optional CQ
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diaufop
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:45:00 -
[1109]
Edited by: diaufop on 24/06/2011 02:46:09
Edited by: diaufop on 24/06/2011 02:45:35
Originally by: CCP Pann
Like I said, I wonÆt be able to answer all of your questions tonight
I'm currently up to page 31 of this thread and posts are being made faster than I can read them, thus far dozens of serious issues have been raised with not one single quantative response other than "yes, the newsletter was legit" - the rest is just Manifest contradicting himself and cracking ill-advised jokes.
What is the purpose of you even posting this, other than creating yet another threadnaught?
Never mind answering "all", how about answering just a few?
Where are the Internet Spaceships?
Is CQ/WiS going to be mandatory?
What is the future of the MEGAtransaction model - is it going to be taking business in the form of ships, weapons, modules, ammunition, etc, away from in-game manufacturers or not?
Why are we paying for Internet Spaceships and receiving a buggy, resource-hogging, WoD Alpha test?
These are just a few of the dozens of questions brought up, and not a one has been answered.
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Vilgan Mazran
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.24 02:45:00 -
[1110]
I'm kind of sad about the whole thing, because I think CCP has made a LOT of great attitude adjustments since the summer of rage. While the amount of resources dedicated to Incursions sucked, the amount accomplished with those resources was decent. Team BFF and Team Gridlock have been doing awesome things. There have been a lot of cool devblogs.
Unfortunately, I think a lot of the good changes visible in CCP (at least to the perception of players) will be forgotten in the events of the past 2 weeks. So, a few quick summaries/thoughts:
Stuff players are angry about that they should be angry about:
1) Captain's Quarters. It looks terrible, performance is GOD AWFUL, and it just doesn't seem to add anything to the game. If this was a quick side project that 2-3 devs threw together, sure but a year ago we were told nothing could be done because everyone was working on incarna. The fact that ALL those resources were spent on producing such a terrible looking feature is extremely anger inducing. If CQ performance is such crap, what will happen when we try to do this in stations?
2) 99$ for licensing was nonsense and a big F U to the customers. Nonsense about services that only accept donations in order to stay afloat needing to pay $99 was especially aggravating.
3) NeX prices are ridiculous and the selection is terrible. How many resources were put toward this again?
4) The last "good" expansion was over 2 years ago. Since then we have suffered through dominion and tyrannis. Incursions was a decent if very tiny expansion. If expansions were more often like apocrypha I think sub count would be MUCH higher and rage would be MUCH lower.
Things players are upset about that (imo) is just spillover from other things:
1) The CCP newsletter. Pretty terrible timing for it to come out, but it isn't the end of the world. Lots of rage at CCP Soundwave, but his arguments made sense from a business perspective. I think most of the rage here is more the timing/rage at Incarna.
2) Microtransactions in general. Done right, not the end of the world. Altho, some doubt about CCP doing them right given recent revelations (like the current prices)
What are things CCP could to do make things better:
1) FOCUS A LOT OF ATTENTION ON EVE FOR 6 MONTHS. Make another expansion like apocrypha. Release new T4 battleships. T3 frigates. Add a lot of cool unbottable content to 0.0. Balance stuff. Iterate on some cool features that people like (faction warfare/w-space). Ignore stuff that nobody really likes (PI). Right now, Dust *might* make money and WoD *might* make money (altho not if the engine is as terrible as Incarna). Eve DOES make money and a great expansion could easily multiply those subs in a great way.
2) Check with the CSM more often. Like the prices for the MT shop - nobody with any sense of the playerbase would have thought those prices were appropriate. We all play other games, we know what a typical MT model looks like and those prices weren't it. I can unlock a completely new character in another popular game for $3 and yet a monocle in eve costs $61? Seriously?
Mainly, just focus on spaceships for a while. Yes, you are excited about expanding the eve universe as a whole. But we don't play Eve because we can build stuff on a planet and walk around in our hangar and whatever other gizmos get added. We play eve because internet spaceships are really cool. Stop focus on meaningless side crap for a while and put some real energy into the heart of the game again. Team BFF and Team Gridlock are great, but where are the other 4-5 teams that should be helping make spaceships awesome? Make it happen and all will be forgiven in time (imo) but continue on the current path of meaningless crap that is poorly implemented and more and more will find their final straw.
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